http://www.in.gov/indot/3154.htm (http://www.in.gov/indot/3154.htm)
INDOT will lower the roadway beneath 7 bridges between the North Split and South Split in an attempt to reduce the number of times overheight vehicles strike the bridges.
This is going to be a huge cluster for commuters - hoping my back road detour from the Hyperfix will still work.
Looks like it will be the sequel to Hyperfix. I doubt that there is a connection, but the state just saved some $23 million yesterday from the US 31 project, a quick checkup on the price does tout this project as costing between $15 and $20 million. Also, there is still a lot of button-copy sigange around that area (all but the newer Washington Street exit) so I wonder if those will be bitting the dust this fall.
It's a good thing work on the south and west legs of I-465 are completed. The extra lanes will be needed to handle the inevitable swell of traffic that's going to take place.
Funny how this takes place 10 years after Hyperfix v1.0.
Great idea INDOT, they also need to get better at posting bridge clearances, it's a rare sight in may places in the state.
Did anyone catch the video on the project home page? Sadly, I found it hilarious.
Sounds like something that you could play the Benny Hill theme with. And just to hit the point (no pun intended) home about the project, another truck hit the Virginia Avenue bridge today. And there are warning signs leading up to the South Split interchange warning about the low clearance, so there is sufficent warning given about that. You can't fix stupid, but you can lower the roadway I guess.
As for the I-465 beltway, the west side is completely redone, but the southern part hasn't seen any work on it in at least a couple or so decades. That interchange with 65 and 465, the one being rebuilt next year may have some increased traffic as all thru traffic will be forced off the mainline and onto the one-lane exit ramp leading to 465.
The day after they announce this: another hit. (http://www.indystar.com/viewart/20130627/NEWS02/306270077/Video-Truck-hits-65-70-bridge-after-90-day-closure-project-announced)
And there's something wrong with this graphic from the Indianapolis Star....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP4uh78P.jpg&hash=fd9c5b5fbe6cbf591ca31e535d661c08f6375d9b)
if not "household cats are 14 feet tall", then what exactly were they intending there?
it's clearly an error, but ... for what?
Re: the Star's article, I had to chuckle too, but it looks like what they are demonstrating is the range of heights involved spans about the same as a typical household cat.
It is often confusing to use a non-zero base/reference for a chart like this.
Yep, the non-zero and poorly-labeled baseline is the real problem. Why not label 13'6 on the y-axis with 14 and 15? The graphic is begging to be read as showing a 14-foot cat.
Somewhere else is posted another person's graphic clearing up the first graphic as described. When you need a graphic to explain your graphic, it probably means that your graphic wasn't very good!
It would have been a lot clearer to more clearly show that below the arrows is meant to be a trailer (not a fading-shaded rectangle) and that the heights are above that. Heck, it may have been clearer without the cat!
(Also, while the credit to an artist at the Star is given, the "Source: INDOT" gives a slight impression that INDOT thinks that a cat is 14 feet tall while sitting!)
14 foot tall cat...SMH.
Also, when the bridge got hit just 24 hours AFTER an announcement of work to fix the problem? Yeah, kinda late there, and you probably should ban oversize loads on that stretch for the time being.
Seems clear enough to me. The cat is sitting on top of a 13'6" truck.
They were trying to convey the amount of space between the bottoms of the bridges and the tops of the trailers compared to a house cat. In other words, a 1'-9" cat would not fit under the bridge if it was on top of a truck. Horrible idea.
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on June 28, 2013, 09:44:00 PM
They were trying to convey the amount of space between the bottoms of the bridges and the tops of the trailers compared to a house cat. In other words, a 1'-9" cat would not fit under the bridge if it was on top of a truck. Horrible idea.
It could, if it ducked. My cat fits under a four inch opening to hide all the time.
The road is scheduled to be closed from the day after Labor Day to Halloween. They have a deal with the contractor that if they finish early they get money for each day they finish early (I forget the exact dollar amount), so this could get done really fast!
Went through Indy on I-65 both ways this weekend and the electronic signs as you approach I-465 both have messages about height restrictions on I-65/70.
This closure is now in place.
First morning rush did not go too badly for me. My alternative route from hyperfix worked well for me. I normally take 69-465-70 to get downtown. Alternate route for me is to take 465 down to Brookville Road. Brookville to English to Southeastern to Washington Street just East of the construction zone.
This entire situation just continues to expose the ineptitude of our state government. (1) - Why wasn't this resolved with Hyperfix and (2) why did it take until the last 60 days to get signs up warning trucks and telling them to detour.
On the good side, this will probably cause our mini-drought to come to an end. We've had almost no rain in July and August in the Indy area. I'm sure this will cause us to have several all day rains. :)
Not for the fix.
If truckers refuse to read or pay attention to warnings. Hit them hard in the pocket and their companies.
Up the fines to 10K for the first hit, 100K for the second hit and 1Million for the third per driver, per company.
Very simple to catch em' HD Cameras and a Cop nearby. Those big of fines the Cops will be salivating.
Pretty sure after a company writes the first million dollar check folks will avoid the area.
Just came back from Minneapolis and experienced bumper to bumper traffic on 465 from I-70 to I-65 on the south side. Way too much traffic for that stretch of highway. If this doesn't convince INDOT about widening that stretch of highway to 8 lanes nothing will.
Quote from: ShawnP on September 03, 2013, 04:42:42 PM
Not for the fix.
If truckers refuse to read or pay attention to warnings. Hit them hard in the pocket and their companies.
Up the fines to 10K for the first hit, 100K for the second hit and 1Million for the third per driver, per company.
Very simple to catch em' HD Cameras and a Cop nearby. Those big of fines the Cops will be salivating.
Pretty sure after a company writes the first million dollar check folks will avoid the area.
They already fine the companies and truckers still hit the bridges, what does raising the price do? It won't stop people's incompetence. I don't know why they won't just go another 3 inches and make it an even 14 feet clearance (I'm sure there is a good reason I just haven't heard it). Before this became a huge problem the signage warning of low clearance was spotty at best.
If the max height for trucks is 13' 6", how come so many of them are overloaded?
If the max height for cats is 14' 9", how come the trucks don't take the cat route?
If the goal height is 14' 9", how come more players just don't kick the ball higher? Unless the goal is protected by a cat?
If they are going to do that, why not go for the desired 16'-0" clearance set for freeways?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 03, 2013, 09:49:55 PM
If the max height for cats is 14' 9", how come the trucks don't take the cat route?
If the goal height is 14' 9", how come more players just don't kick the ball higher? Unless the goal is protected by a cat?
Meow??
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 03, 2013, 05:31:53 PM
Just came back from Minneapolis and experienced bumper to bumper traffic on 465 from I-70 to I-65 on the south side. Way too much traffic for that stretch of highway. If this doesn't convince INDOT about widening that stretch of highway to 8 lanes nothing will.
My wife was driving back from the Twin Cities (using I-39 south to I-74 east) and said she ran into thick traffic Monday late afternoon/early evening on the co-signed segment of 74 and 465.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2013, 11:46:48 AM
My wife was driving back from the Twin Cities (using I-39 south to I-74 east) and said she ran into thick traffic Monday late afternoon/early evening on the co-signed segment of 74 and 465.
I'm not surprised. The official detour (http://www.in.gov/indot/files/South_Split_I-65-I-70_Detour_Map.pdf) has both southbound I-65 traffic and eastbound I-70 traffic taking the south/eastbound leg of 456 on the SW side (the route your wife took during rush-hour). So for roughly 9 miles (and mostly only 3 lanes), I-65, I-70, and I-74 traffic are all joining I-465's traffic.
I drove from Keystone Ave on the north side around the east side to 65 south today around the same time of day and the traffic from 70 to 65 was noticeably heavier and truck-ier. Traffic slowed to about 45mph around 70 where all of the westbound traffic was exiting south but it eventually picked up again to regular speeds. Even more noticeable was the sheer volume of traffic exiting from 65 north to 465 east on the south side (I'm not sure they have the "official" detours posted). Eastbound 465 immediately after 65 north spilled on was VERY heavy, with speeds picking back up later.
On my way back to the north side, I drove city streets and was amused at what I saw at the intersection of South St. and Delaware:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543462_10102812817363388_1778109939_n.jpg)
Apparently some truck drivers didn't read the warnings (there are plenty of them) that the highway was closed downtown. Most downtown streets were not designed for large trucks so I'm sure they had a fun time trying to get around (especially with construction on north Delaware St).
I saw a similar situation yesterday, with a truck that unfortunately chose south meridian as the route to get back to 70 - luckily he stopped before the union station overpass (12'9" clearance).
Quote from: bmeiser on September 05, 2013, 12:32:57 AM(the route your wife took during rush-hour).
I wouldn't have expected heavy rush hour traffic on Labor Day.
I remember driving into DC one year on MLK Day and observing how relatively light the traffic was.
Quote from: bmeiser on September 05, 2013, 12:32:57 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2013, 11:46:48 AM
My wife was driving back from the Twin Cities (using I-39 south to I-74 east) and said she ran into thick traffic Monday late afternoon/early evening on the co-signed segment of 74 and 465.
I'm not surprised. The official detour (http://www.in.gov/indot/files/South_Split_I-65-I-70_Detour_Map.pdf) has both southbound I-65 traffic and eastbound I-70 traffic taking the south/eastbound leg of 456 on the SW side (the route your wife took during rush-hour). So for roughly 9 miles (and mostly only 3 lanes), I-65, I-70, and I-74 traffic are all joining I-465's traffic.
I drove from Keystone Ave on the north side around the east side to 65 south today around the same time of day and the traffic from 70 to 65 was noticeably heavier and truck-ier. Traffic slowed to about 45mph around 70 where all of the westbound traffic was exiting south but it eventually picked up again to regular speeds. Even more noticeable was the sheer volume of traffic exiting from 65 north to 465 east on the south side (I'm not sure they have the "official" detours posted). Eastbound 465 immediately after 65 north spilled on was VERY heavy, with speeds picking back up later.
On my way back to the north side, I drove city streets and was amused at what I saw at the intersection of South St. and Delaware:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543462_10102812817363388_1778109939_n.jpg)
Apparently some truck drivers didn't read the warnings (there are plenty of them) that the highway was closed downtown. Most downtown streets were not designed for large trucks so I'm sure they had a fun time trying to get around (especially with construction on north Delaware St).
Hmmmm, did you get a close-up image of that sign?
:hmmm:
Mike
Quote from: bmeiser on September 05, 2013, 12:32:57 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2013, 11:46:48 AM
My wife was driving back from the Twin Cities (using I-39 south to I-74 east) and said she ran into thick traffic Monday late afternoon/early evening on the co-signed segment of 74 and 465.
I'm not surprised. The official detour (http://www.in.gov/indot/files/South_Split_I-65-I-70_Detour_Map.pdf) has both southbound I-65 traffic and eastbound I-70 traffic taking the south/eastbound leg of 456 on the SW side (the route your wife took during rush-hour). So for roughly 9 miles (and mostly only 3 lanes), I-65, I-70, and I-74 traffic are all joining I-465's traffic.
That's really about the only way they could do it and avoid the NE side... if they routed the traffic that way it'd be total gridlock around I-69 there.
Quote from: bmeiser on September 05, 2013, 12:32:57 AM
Apparently some truck drivers didn't read the warnings (there are plenty of them) that the highway was closed downtown. Most downtown streets were not designed for large trucks so I'm sure they had a fun time trying to get around (especially with construction on north Delaware St).
Isn't this how we GOT in this situation in the first place, by not reading signs? I'd hate for us to have to close Meridian, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Capitol just so we lower the roadway under those bridges too.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 05, 2013, 12:06:21 PM
I wouldn't have expected heavy rush hour traffic on Labor Day.
I remember driving into DC one year on MLK Day and observing how relatively light the traffic was.
Ah, sorry I didn't realize she went through on Labor Day. You're right, normally traffic would be fairly light on Labor Day. Either way, I didn't mean to make it sound like your wife shouldn't have been driving through at that particular time ;-).
Quote from: mgk920 on September 05, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Hmmmm, did you get a close-up image of that sign?
:hmmm:
Mike
I did not but all of the VMSes in the area either say "I-65 / I-70 closed downtown. Use I-465." or, within the detours "I-65 (or I-70) detour. Follow 465 to exit xx". There were also additional portable VMSes mentioning the closure in addition to orange "Closed" signs plastered over BGSes leading into town on said interstates. Of course, I was looking for these things. Plus...
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 05, 2013, 03:43:48 PM
Isn't this how we GOT in this situation in the first place, by not reading signs? I'd hate for us to have to close Meridian, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Capitol just so we lower the roadway under those bridges too.
:-D You're right. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.
Here's a news story from Fox 59 regarding the truckers disregarding signs (again) with a cool picture of one of the button copy signs in camera flash: http://fox59.com/2013/09/06/indots-message-to-truckers-follow-the-signs/#axzz2dxeROppA
Downtown Indy traffic is all mucked up for the Friday evening rush hour. With the 65/70 closures, downtown workers heading to the South side all need to use West, Capitol or Pennsylvania to access 65 and 70 south of downtown.
The powers that be decided that a Colts Kickoff Concert with the Gin Blossoms on Georgia Street would be a great event tonight. And to accomplish that they have closed Capitol southbound at Washington, forcing all traffic West on one way Washington. Looking out my office windown at a mile long back up of four lanes of traffic merging down to two to be able to make the turn and Washington Street blocked as far to the East as I can see.
guess I should have taken the afternoon off.
Events and conventions are booked years in advance.
Concert stage didn't need to be in the middle of one of the main streets (Capitol Ave) for getting around the closure for downtown traffic and workers. Plenty of other places to put it that would have disrupted less traffic.
It's still planned years in advance. It's not their fault that INDOT did not plan this project years in advance and give notice to the city for their streets.
Here's an update on the project's progress complete with a photo of the dirt road that is now I-65/I-70 and a time-lapse video of pavement removal.
http://www.wthr.com/story/23381297/2013/09/09/south-split-pavement-removal-completed?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass
^^ Thanks for sharing. The videos are great. I especially enjoyed the compilation of all the collisions with the bridge, which has the link "resulting video." (The links in the WTHR article are not really obvious, since they are not underlined and the font color is hardly different.)
Quote from: bmeiser on September 05, 2013, 12:32:57 AMOn my way back to the north side, I drove city streets and was amused at what I saw at the intersection of South St. and Delaware:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543462_10102812817363388_1778109939_n.jpg)
Apparently some truck drivers didn't read the warnings (there are plenty of them) that the highway was closed downtown. Most downtown streets were not designed for large trucks so I'm sure they had a fun time trying to get around (especially with construction on north Delaware St).
Guess who's truck you
don't see in that clusterF? Yup, that's right,
mine. :) Thanks largely to this forum, of course... oh, and the fact that I actually, y'know,
read the signs, instead of going "herp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp OH SHIT THE ROAD IS CLOSED!??!?!?!?!?!?"
And I don't use a GPS.
In any event, I'm about to go pick up in Plainfield and go joust about with the traffic on the southern segment of I-465... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
This is opening right now!
http://www.indystar.com/article/20131016/NEWS/310160075/
Drove past the signage for the detours on the way to and from the Cincy meet.
Here's a few photos of them.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3596_zps7bb11ca1.jpg&hash=e2a039d361e94d640ba1f2aa56c0e9a605cc5af3) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3596_zps7bb11ca1.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3597_zps82a5d662.jpg&hash=8d08ccb3387c04f232d3dbe17173841f30ff01ca) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3597_zps82a5d662.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3600_zps5bdea3b4.jpg&hash=449b8d3ac3a7ae40ff8732a0727aafcfd770cecc) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3600_zps5bdea3b4.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3606_zps8e76f2f2.jpg&hash=4b91d5a745ed5dcd439cc25a09990d8028a286ab) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3606_zps8e76f2f2.jpg.html)
Speaking of signage, I drove through the new South Split last night and saw a few of the button copy signs on that stretch were redone. All of the button copy north of Washington Street, however, remains. One sign they redid was for I-70 East and they included "Columbus OH" as the control city, despite the recent substitution for Dayton that was done on signs for I-70 East on the southern part of Downtown. Heading south to the South Split, I-70 West now picks up a control point of Indpls Int'l Airport along with St. Louis.
One more interesting thing to note involves the lane configurations for northbound 65/eastbound 70. Prior to the construction, the right two lanes of I-65 continued north with the right lane becoming an exit-only lane for Washington Street (former Market Street ramp.) That has been redone so that both lanes now continue north toward I-70 with an additional lane added near the Washington Street ramp for traffic exiting off there.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 18, 2013, 07:26:25 PM
Speaking of signage, I drove through the new South Split last night and saw a few of the button copy signs on that stretch were redone. All of the button copy north of Washington Street, however, remains. One sign they redid was for I-70 East and they included "Columbus OH" as the control city, despite the recent substitution for Dayton that was done on signs for I-70 East on the southern part of Downtown. Heading south to the South Split, I-70 West now picks up a control point of Indpls Int'l Airport along with St. Louis.
One more interesting thing to note involves the lane configurations for northbound 65/eastbound 70. Prior to the construction, the right two lanes of I-65 continued north with the right lane becoming an exit-only lane for Washington Street (former Market Street ramp.) That has been redone so that both lanes now continue north toward I-70 with an additional lane added near the Washington Street ramp for traffic exiting off there.
great idea indot (not being sarcastic)