TOLLROADSnews: American Roads LLC operator of Detroit Windsor Tunnel, Alabama bridges files for Ch 11 bankruptcy (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6659)
QuoteAmerican Roads LLC has filed in New York for Chapter 11 with $830m of debt it cannot service. The company filed a so-called 'pre-packaged plan' for the US bankruptcy court's consideration, meaning that the creditors present an agreed plan on how their debt will be written down.
QuoteThe unserviceable debt was taken on in 2006 when American Roads - itself largely owned by Alinda Capital Partners - took over the Detroit Windsor Tunnel LLC, and four toll bridge operations in Alabama, several that had been launched by local entrepreneur Jim Allen who later took technology to TransCore.
The City of Detroit goes bankrupt, now its tunnel. Some coincidence! Or is it?? I find it amazing and its no surprise to me.
I wonder how they ever racked up $ 830 million in debt. The toll facilities in Alabama are all local minor bridges that couldn't have cost a lot to construct and the Detroit - Windsor Tunnel was built over 80 years ago.
I had thought at one time, the City of Detroit had owned/co-owned the tunnel and pawned it off a few years ago.
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well? I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time. Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA. I know CT was forced to remove their tolls and do not know the story of why VA did it for two toll roads (the Richmond- Petersburg Turnpike and the Norfolk- VA Beach Expressway), so it may not be for payment of bonds there especially with I-95 getting competition with the FREE I-295.
^^^ The tolls on GA 400 are scheduled to end this November.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA.
Kentucky. Dallas-Fort Worth.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA. I know CT was forced to remove their tolls and do not know the story of why VA did it for two toll roads (the Richmond- Petersburg Turnpike and the Norfolk- VA Beach Expressway), so it may not be for payment of bonds there especially with I-95 getting competition with the FREE I-295.
Virginia also detolled the Coleman Bridge (U.S. 17 at the York River), then retolled it when the bridge was reconstructed.
Virginia also detolled the Robert O. Norris Bridge (Va. 3 over the Rappahannock River) in the 1970's.
Maryland detolled the Benedict Bridge (Md. 231 over the Patuxent River) in the 1950's.
Had it not been for the multi-billion dollar Dulles Rail project, the tolls on Va. 267 (Dulles Toll Road) would probably have come off sometime in this decade.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well? I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time. Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA. I know CT was forced to remove their tolls and do not know the story of why VA did it for two toll roads (the Richmond- Petersburg Turnpike and the Norfolk- VA Beach Expressway), so it may not be for payment of bonds there especially with I-95 getting competition with the FREE I-295.
Was there ever such a promise to remove tolls after the bridge was paid for? A lot of people say the same thing about the NJ Turnpike, but I don't recall anyone ever proving the original bond agreements/laws/authorizations, etc called for the tolls to be removed.
My guess is that the corporation that owns this company bought it with the intent of sucking it dry then filing for bankruptcy. This is the sort of thing that Mitt "Mittler" Romney made popular. Vulture capitalism at its best.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA.
In Washington State, the Evergreen Point Bridge (SR 520) and Tacoma Narrows Bridge had their tolls removed once the bonds were paid off, ahead of schedule. They were free for several decades. However both those tolls are back, to pay for expanding or rebuilding the bridges.
British Columbia built the Coquihalla Highway as a toll road. It opened in 1987, and was made toll-free in 2008.
Maybe Washington and B.C. are minor places, I dunno.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well? I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time. Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA. I know CT was forced to remove their tolls and do not know the story of why VA did it for two toll roads (the Richmond- Petersburg Turnpike and the Norfolk- VA Beach Expressway), so it may not be for payment of bonds there especially with I-95 getting competition with the FREE I-295.
The Crescent City Connection became toll free this year, after a toll extension was (narrowly) defeated by voters (after having been first approved, then the vote overturned in court). I believe it has oscillated between toll and free in the past, though. The most recent period of tolling began in 1989 or whereabouts, after the second bridge was completed and its construction debt needed to be paid off. The last of the construction bonds were retired recently IIRC.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well?
It does need maintenance - and a lot of it. I don't think that NJDOT and NYSDOT would want to have to maintain the GWB out of their existing budgets.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time.
What percentage of the tolls paid by Port Authority patrons is diverted to capital and operating subsidies for the PATH train lines?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 26, 2013, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well? I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time. Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA. I know CT was forced to remove their tolls and do not know the story of why VA did it for two toll roads (the Richmond- Petersburg Turnpike and the Norfolk- VA Beach Expressway), so it may not be for payment of bonds there especially with I-95 getting competition with the FREE I-295.
Was there ever such a promise to remove tolls after the bridge was paid for? A lot of people say the same thing about the NJ Turnpike, but I don't recall anyone ever proving the original bond agreements/laws/authorizations, etc called for the tolls to be removed.
I was not around in those days, but my dad was. He is one of the smartest men around that I ever knew, so there is no doubt in my mind of his creditbility on this. According to him it was agreed upon. Maybe not in writing, but in the agreements of the era, anyway the GWB needs as much maintainence as any other bridge of its kind. As far as the PATH subdisation goes, you are correct which is my point! All the commuters are paying for this whether they use the trains or not! Plus all they have to do is file for federal interstate funding anyway because I-95 is an interstate.
The Denver-Boulder turnpike was made toll free once the construction cost was paid off.
Why aren't I surprised that the company who operates the tunnel is in the exact same situation as the city itself? No wonder Detroit is now America's Largest Ghost Town!
TOLLROADSnews: Bankruptcy reorganization for American Roads not as harmonious as seems (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6660)
QuoteAmerican Roads LLC operator of the Detroit Windsor Tunnel and concessionaire of four toll bridges in Alabama will be owned by a major creditor Syncora Guarantee Inc if the 'prepackaged agreement' between its current owner Alinda Capital Partners and creditors is accepted by the US Bankruptcy Court. Syncora was one of nine other creditors that filed in favor of the American Roads reorganization plan in US Bankruptcy Court this week. The plan pays off eight of the creditors. And the transfer of ownership to Syncora satisfies Syncora's claims it says in the filings.
QuoteSounds all very harmonious!
QuoteExcept behind the happily agreed joint filing under Chapter 11 is a fierce legal war that Syncora has been waging against Alinda and Macquarie in the New York state courts. American Roads was originally a creation of Macquarie in October 2006 - the financing which loaded it up with the debt now of $830m it is unable to service.
Quote from: Henry on July 26, 2013, 09:50:21 PM
Why aren't I surprised that the company who operates the tunnel is in the exact same situation as the city itself? No wonder Detroit is now America's Largest Ghost Town!
They own four other toll roads - all bridges to nowhere in Alabama that are off of any major route and not between any city pair. Unless you're specifically going to the places right on the other side, not worth it. The company is just stupid. The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel can easily be made sustainable.
Many of the Columbia River bridges were toll bridges - the Astoria-Megler Bridge (U.S. 101), the Interstate Bridge (U.S. 99/I-5) and the Sam Hill Bridge (U.S. 97) all had tolls that were removed when the bonds were paid off.
The Bridge of the Gods, and the Hood River Bridge, are both owned by local port districts and continue to be tolled.
The Glenn Jackson Bridge (I-205) and Umatilla Bridge (I-82/U.S. 395) were never tolled. I don't recall any tolls on the Lewis & Clark Bridge (SR 433) either.
QuoteHad it not been for the multi-billion dollar Dulles Rail project, the tolls on Va. 267 (Dulles Toll Road) would probably have come off sometime in this decade.
I doubt that. The General Assembly all but gave the Dulles Toll Road to MWAA before they gave the Silver Line to them.
Two posters made mention of the coincidence of the toll operator going bankrupt and the city of Detroit going bankrupt around the same time. That's just what it is...concidence. There is, AT BEST, only an indirect relationship between the two, related to the sour economy over the past 5 years.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 26, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How come the George Washington Bridge is still tolled after 80 years as well? I know the PANYNJ is far from bankrupt, but it seems to be an ongoing thing where tolls are levied for a long period of time. Only in Duval and Brevard Counties in Florida did they keep their promise to people and lifted the tolls on their facilities once the bonds were indeed paid. I cannot think of any other places that have lifted tolls except of few minor places and CT and VA.
There might be a decent number of places if bridges can be counted. Many of the bridges across the Mississippi have had tolls removed, plus a few across the Missouri River, with the NE 51/IA 175 bridge being the most recent IIRC.
What interests me is the fact that you have the Delaware River Toll Joint Commission who operates many bridges between NJ and PA, that have to be paid off by now and are not! Even when you annex in construction projects over time, there really has not been something of major significance on any of those crossings except for the routine repairs. The last few times I went up there to travel all the bridges and approaches still look the same as they did back in the 1970's. I do remember back in 85 when the I-80 Delaware River Bridge had a project where its deck was completely replaced, now considering if all of their crossings had a deck done, it still would not be enough in costs to still keep the tolls for this long and I am sure the I-78 bridge was long payed off as well.
Heck if they really wanted to tag on some projects to keep the tolls in place, they would have replaced the Lambertville, NJ- New Hope, PA FREE bridge as that bridge is so old and carries a 3 TON GSV limit on it. Even the Easton- Phillipsburg FREE bridge could be replaced completly if they really wanted to "stall" the pay off.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 26, 2013, 03:15:47 PM
What percentage of the tolls paid by Port Authority patrons is diverted to capital and operating subsidies for the PATH train lines?
Some, but that pales in comparison to the toll money being diverted to pay for the construction of the new World Trade Center (which is also owned by the Port Authority).
Quote from: roadman65 on July 27, 2013, 03:03:17 PM
What interests me is the fact that you have the Delaware River Toll Joint Commission who operates many bridges between NJ and PA, that have to be paid off by now and are not! Even when you annex in construction projects over time, there really has not been something of major significance on any of those crossings except for the routine repairs. The last few times I went up there to travel all the bridges and approaches still look the same as they did back in the 1970's. I do remember back in 85 when the I-80 Delaware River Bridge had a project where its deck was completely replaced, now considering if all of their crossings had a deck done, it still would not be enough in costs to still keep the tolls for this long and I am sure the I-78 bridge was long payed off as well.
Heck if they really wanted to tag on some projects to keep the tolls in place, they would have replaced the Lambertville, NJ- New Hope, PA FREE bridge as that bridge is so old and carries a 3 TON GSV limit on it. Even the Easton- Phillipsburg FREE bridge could be replaced completly if they really wanted to "stall" the pay off.
Their newest bridge opened in 1989, the I-78 toll bridge, prior to that it was the US 202 Toll Bridge, prior to that it was the I-80 bridge and the US-206 bridge, and the US1 bridge, in the early 50s.
The DRJTBC just finished a widening project on the US1 bridge, a major rehab on the calhoun street bridge. And now they are preparing to replace the scudders falls bridge on I-95 which was not built with interstate funds. I wonder if NJDOT secretly wants tolls to never go away on the toll roads, since that helps their budget out
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 28, 2013, 06:44:30 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 27, 2013, 03:03:17 PM
What interests me is the fact that you have the Delaware River Toll Joint Commission who operates many bridges between NJ and PA, that have to be paid off by now and are not! Even when you annex in construction projects over time, there really has not been something of major significance on any of those crossings except for the routine repairs. The last few times I went up there to travel all the bridges and approaches still look the same as they did back in the 1970's. I do remember back in 85 when the I-80 Delaware River Bridge had a project where its deck was completely replaced, now considering if all of their crossings had a deck done, it still would not be enough in costs to still keep the tolls for this long and I am sure the I-78 bridge was long payed off as well.
Heck if they really wanted to tag on some projects to keep the tolls in place, they would have replaced the Lambertville, NJ- New Hope, PA FREE bridge as that bridge is so old and carries a 3 TON GSV limit on it. Even the Easton- Phillipsburg FREE bridge could be replaced completly if they really wanted to "stall" the pay off.
Their newest bridge opened in 1989, the I-78 toll bridge, prior to that it was the US 202 Toll Bridge, prior to that it was the I-80 bridge and the US-206 bridge, and the US1 bridge, in the early 50s.
The DRJTBC just finished a widening project on the US1 bridge, a major rehab on the calhoun street bridge. And now they are preparing to replace the scudders falls bridge on I-95 which was not built with interstate funds. I wonder if NJDOT secretly wants tolls to never go away on the toll roads, since that helps their budget out
My cousin works for the NJ Turnpike Authority on the Parkway doing clean up work and light maintainence and has an interesting story to tell. Back when McGreevy was governor of the state, he wanted to eliminate the two Authorities at the time (maybe even the SJTA as well, but he did not say specifically though on that one) and my cousin then told me how fearful he was of losing his job if that did occur!
I am assuming that with his story being told to me, and that the fact NJ is out of money, I would assume that they do want assistance in maintaining their roads at what costs. I am sure the chiefs at the NJTA and the now defunct NJHA, felt as fearful as my cousin did and successfully one against that proposal!
In Florida we have the same situation in Orlando with the OOCEA, but that story was told back when I first joined this forum and got two people very disturbed here when I told mentioned my concern then, so I will not go in to opinion about it, but I will say this on it that they have been constantly upgrading their road network (good for us drivers, but bad in some other ways) which suggests that fact for us!
Quote from: bugo on July 26, 2013, 12:14:57 PM
My guess is that the corporation that owns this company bought it with the intent of sucking it dry then filing for bankruptcy. This is the sort of thing that Mitt "Mittler" Romney made popular. Vulture capitalism at its best.
I find those sort of allegations insulting... to the vultures.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 28, 2013, 06:44:30 AMI wonder if NJDOT secretly wants tolls to never go away on the toll roads, since that helps their budget out
"secretly"
ha
I find the angst against tolls by many (including some on this forum), along with the angst against gas tax increases, to be indicative of the premise that Americans want to have infrastructure, but don't want to have to pay for it...
Anyone from (or familiar with) the Detroit area and could comment on the border crossing?
For many years, I've listened to a talk station based out of Windsor (CKLW) and found it somewhat odd that they almost never discuss or even acknowledge the presence of Detroit on any of their local talk shows or newscasts. I know about CanCon but wouldn't think that would be as much of an issue for talk radio.
I just get the impression that there isn't much of a cross-border community–anything approaching a similar cross-river metro area entirely within the US, like Philadelphia/South Jersey or New York/North Jersey. Granted, the international border complicates what might otherwise be a simple commute, shopping trip, night out, or whatever.
So if border-crossing demand was modest to begin with, the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, which runs downtown-to-downtown is more passenger-oriented than the Ambassador Bridge (which carries more cargo), had the most to lose.
I was just reading an interesting piece linked from The Huffington Post about the cross-border relationship between Detroit and Windsor entitled, "The World's Greatest View of Detroit (http://www.randomhouse.ca/hazlitt/feature/worlds-greatest-view-detroit)". Windsor is exempt from CanCon, and very much a Canadian suburb of Detroit. Its economic fortunes have risen and fallen along with Detroit's to a point.
You know I always wanted to know about the Detroit Metro area if Windsor was included being right directly across the River! It seems different from the Philadelphia- Camden area, but when it comes to the Niagara Falls area, it seems both Niagara Falls seem like one. I am guessing its because the tourists visit both sides and then further south you have the big city of Buffalo to the south. Many Canadians who live in the Niagara Region of Ontario, when wanting a big city to visit have to rely on Buffalo to go to, as Toronto is many kilometers away for them.