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Regional Boards => Mid-Atlantic => Topic started by: Alex on March 22, 2009, 11:21:28 AM

Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on March 22, 2009, 11:21:28 AM
NIMBY's again raising their ugly heads. The article mentions a possibility of upgrading the existing U.S. 301 to limited-access standards. That would be a very pricey endeavor with so much development already along or near the corridor.

I'm sure the NIMBY's prefer the "no-build" option.

The U.S. 301 freeway to Summit Bridge idea goes back to the 1960s, so who actually believes that the super-2 super or any other limited access route will ever connect to the span? All of that stated, the stretch of U.S. 301 is prone to accidents and I suppose that that factor does not matter to those who live along the corridor who cry out "do nothing!".


DelDOT revisits disputed 301 spur
Opponent calls Middletown workshop on project 'dog and pony show'

March 22, 2009

State transportation officials and opponents of a proposed road north of Middletown will meet again Monday, but both sides say they expect to hear little new information.

"This workshop is a dog-and-pony show," said Andye Daley, chairwoman of the Middletown Corridor Coalition, which is fighting the 4.5 mile Spur Road that would connect U.S. 301 to Summit Bridge. The road would run along the western edge of Daley's development of Chesapeake Meadow.

The alternatives to the Spur Road to be presented Monday reflect only minor adjustments to those presented previously by the Delaware Department of Transportation, spokesman Jim Westhoff said. The agency has been presenting its plans to small neighborhood groups in recent months.

"The spur will be used by more than 12,000 people a day, and this will be a significant benefit for people," Westhoff said.

Last June, the General Assembly ordered DelDOT to take another look at the Spur Road, present alternatives to the public and report back to legislators by May 1.

The public workshop will be 3 to 8 p.m. Monday at Volunteer Hose Company, and DelDOT will continue to collect comments until April 3.

Westhoff said no new alternatives have emerged to the Spur Road.

The Spur Road had always been considered along with the project's main focus: a limited-access highway connecting Del. 1 to U.S. 301 to alleviate congestion and safety issues. The project would be done in four phases over five years, with the Spur Road the last phase.

The entire project is expected to cost $704 million, with the Spur Road making up about $125 million of that.

"This is the first time we've looked at the alternatives separately," Westhoff said.

Daley said her group pressed legislators to force DelDOT to reconsider the alternatives before embarking on the project.

"It seems like there was a better way to do it, but they hadn't really thought about it," Daley said.

She said she opposes the Spur Road because it would cost too much without solving any problems. Instead, the state should upgrade the existing U.S. 301, Daley said.

That is one of the three alternatives that DelDOT will present Monday.

While it would cost only $75 million to $85 million and have a smaller impact on farms and forests, it will not solve safety and congestion problems, DelDOT says. Also, it would affect more homes and businesses.

Another alternative would be to limit access along the existing U.S. 301 and connect it to the new U.S. 301.

That would alleviate truck traffic and address safety issues, but it would cost $165 million and have a huge impact on Summit Airport, homes, businesses, wetlands and forests, according to DelDOT.

The third alternative would be to do nothing.

Westhoff said work on the first project's phase -- construction of U.S. 301 from Del. 1 to just east of the Norfolk Southern Railroad tracks north of Armstrong Corner Road -- could begin in 2011.

"That's in a perfect world, where everything goes exactly the way it should go," Westhoff said.

For more information about the project, visit: www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/index.shtml (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/index.shtml).
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: njroadhorse on March 29, 2009, 11:04:34 AM
Personally, I think Middletown would benefit from the straightforward construction of the new 301.  Who cares if it goes along the edge of a development?   I'd rather sacrifice having a highway in my backyard if it means I can get through town easier. 
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2009, 11:07:25 AM
That makes too much logical sense in a sprawl-producing county.  :crazy:

Widen the existing U.S. 301, that is what the opponents always say and probably what will happen instead of the Super-2 spur.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on August 05, 2009, 07:33:48 AM
U.S. 301 project (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/) appears to be moving closer to reality. The project web site includes eight refinements to the overall project, six of which that will move forward (the web site includes pdf documents of each item):

August 3, 2009 Status Update of Project Refinements
Each refinement is linked to detailed information, as is the corresponding number on the map.

   
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on February 22, 2011, 04:34:36 PM
DelDOT calls off meeting on 301 connector (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110222/NEWS02/102220355/DelDOT-calls-off-meeting-301-connector?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Home|s)

Quote
Reeling from allegations of mismanagement and the resignation of top officials, including Secretary Carolann Wicks, the Delaware Department of Transportation canceled a meeting to review land purchases for the $600 million U.S. 301 connector, the largest transportation project on the state's agenda.

Agency spokesman Geoff Sundstrom said the postponement resulted from flux within the department, capped by Wicks' surprise announcement Friday.

Over the past year, DelDOT has been the subject of a series of reports that during her administration, the agency struck favorable deals with wealthy and politically connected businessmen in Kent and Sussex counties. Some of those reports led to a continuing FBI investigation.

The department has also drawn criticism for the failure of an original design for a new bridge over the Indian River Inlet and delays in a new bridge project now under way there.

The Advanced Acquisition Committee had been scheduled to meet Monday afternoon to authorize early land purchases for the $600 million U.S. 301 toll-road plan. But reform regulations have yet to be approved for reviews of land that DelDOT wants to buy in advance of formal designs and final right-of-way plans.

DelDOT's Advanced Acquisition Committee meets as required to review purchase terms and rationales for buying land or reserving purchase rights before DelDOT approves a detailed right-of-way alignment. Committee members can vote to approve, reject or set conditions for purchases. The committee includes the leaders of the departments of Natural Resources and Environmental Control, Transportation and Agriculture, the Delaware Economic Development Office director, the governor's chief of staff; one member each from the Senate and House and two members of the public, chosen by the Senate president pro tem and the House speaker.

The Federal Highway Administration in mid-2008 approved DelDOT's general proposal for a 17.5-mile U.S. 301 connector between west of Middletown and the Del. 1 canal bridge. A spur road would connect the new highway to the Del. 896 Summit Bridge. Officials estimated in mid-2008 that nearly 1,000 acres and nearly 150 properties would be needed, although no construction funds have been approved and completion could be a decade or more away.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on August 29, 2011, 12:04:50 PM
DelDOT delays US 301 meeting (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110829/NEWS02/108290332/-1/7daysarchives/DelDOT-delays-US-301-meeting)

Quote
Officials still hope to prepare a semifinal financing and toll plan for Gov. Jack Markell's review in December that will make the $747 million highway self-supporting between west of Middletown and the Roth and Summit bridges on Del. 1 and Del. 896. Work could begin by mid-2012.

State lawmakers directed the agency to move ahead with the project in phases last year, starting with the 14-mile, four-lane mainline from the state line west of Middletown to Del. 1 south of the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal. Construction of a two-lane, 3.5-mile "spur" toll road linking the mainline to Summit Bridge could follow, based on traffic needs.

Out-of-state vehicles, many moving between the state line and I-95, are expected to pay 70 percent of the tolls collected along the road, with trucks accounting for 40 percent.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on September 03, 2011, 08:38:28 PM
US 301 project loses out on aid (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110903/NEWS02/109030324/-1/7daysarchives/US-301-project-loses-out-aid)

Quote
Delaware has been quietly bumped out of the running for $240 million in federal credit aid that the state Department of Transportation hoped to use for the proposed $738 million U.S. 301 toll road, a project already on uncertain financial ground.

Agency officials released the Federal Highway Administration denial, received by email earlier this summer, during a briefing Friday on a U.S. 301 public workshop scheduled for Tuesday afternoon and evening in Middletown.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on November 26, 2011, 12:30:08 PM
US 301 timetable in doubt (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20111126/NEWS02/111260323/-1/7daysarchives/US-301-timetable-doubt)

Quote
Currently forecast to be the state's largest highway project through the year 2040, the $747 million project was once expected to go out for bids in stages, starting early next year.

But the nation's recession and a lost bid for federal aid could threaten that timetable. Details are expected to be released next month, when DelDOT issues updates to traffic and toll-revenue forecasts.

Quote
Although not easily apparent in DelDOT's earlier public accounts of the traffic study, consultants have predicted that thousands of trucks and cars eventually will shift from Interstate 95 to U.S. 301 each day to reduce the overall toll cost of their trips.

The traffic diversions could cost the Transportation Trust Fund about $3.5 million during the first full year of operations, with the loss climbing to $4.2 million by 2020 and $6.5 million by 2025, according to a report dated Sept. 20, 2011, and recently made public.

Quote
The latest estimates predicted 21,790 car and truck tolls per day in 2015 -- if the highway opens that year -- with 13,110 at the mainline barrier and the rest at ramps. Analysts based their forecast on a $4 toll for cars traveling the mainline and an $11 truck toll.

Although DelDOT was allowed to sell federally backed bonds for U.S. 301 right-of-way purchases and is actively buying land, the state did not win a hoped-for $240 million federal loan for the project. Without the loan, some revenue forecasts released earlier this year showed the project falling short of self-supporting cash flows, with the darkest outlook putting the annual shortfall at more than $22 million.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 21, 2011, 10:53:54 PM
DelDOT delays construction target for US 301 toll road (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20111221/NEWS02/112210336/DelDOT-delays-construction-target-US-301-toll-road?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Local)

Quote
The Delaware Department of Transportation has delayed a key construction target for the proposed U.S. 301 toll road, pending outside reviews of projected traffic, toll receipts and cost estimates.

Under the new approach, officials could seek legislative authorization for the project in June instead of January if forecasts hold up, with the start of the first roadway construction moved back from mid-2012 to 2013.

DelDOT Secretary Shailen Bhatt said Tuesday that updated studies indicate the toll road can pay for itself. The road originally was expected to cost about $740 million, but new estimates say the cost could be significantly less.

Quote
New projections have cut $60 million from the previous $440 million construction cost estimates for the longest stretch of mainline highway. An updated draft report on traffic and toll revenue outlooks, meanwhile, supports a conclusion that tolls can cover all long-term annual debt service, even if traffic misses targets by a wide margin, officials said.

Quote
According to the latest draft report, about 21,300 vehicles, including 3,000 trucks, would use the toll road daily during 2016, its first full year of operation, producing more than $27 million in toll receipts. Traffic on the toll road would rise to 31,646 vehicles daily. Cars initially would pay a $4 toll at the mainline barrier west of Middletown, with trucks paying $11.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on January 11, 2013, 01:28:48 PM
DelDOT seeks federal funds to help construct U.S. 301 toll road (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130111/NEWS02/130111006/DelDOT-seeks-federal-funds-help-construct-U-S-301-toll-road)

Quote
DelDOT recently applied for millions in federal credit aid that it hopes to use for the planned $471 million U.S. 301 toll road, officials say.

If approved through the Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act program, DelDOT would pay less overall in borrowing costs, Secretary Shailen Bhatt said Monday in Dover. Program officials in 2011 denied a previous application for the project.

Bhatt said his agency has purchased more than 95 percent of the properties needed for construction of the project – a 14-mile, four-lane toll road between the Maryland line west of Middletown and the Del. 1 bridge over the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal, along with a spur linking the Summit Bridge.

Officials would like to begin construction later this year, with the road opening in late 2015 or 2016.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on June 21, 2013, 10:58:41 AM
US 301 cost may rise by millions (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130621/NEWS/306210043/US-301-cost-may-rise-by-millions)

Quote
A little noticed change in Middletown’s annexation and zoning plans last year could tack more unexpected millions onto the state Department of Transportation’s land cost for the proposed U.S. 301 toll road, state officials said Thursday.

Concern about right-of-way costs for farmland off Bunker Hill Road surfaced a day after Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt said that he would explore options for recovering some of a $16 million payment to investor-owners for another property that Middletown annexed and rezoned to commercial status in 2007.

That land-use change sharply increased the value that DelDOT appraisers had assigned the property for a court supervised condemnation.

Although DelDOT said this week overall land costs are under budget for the 14.5-mile toll road, more than a quarter of the planned right-of-way spending has gone to just two tracts and landowner groups at a far higher cost than the state’s initial forecast.

Quote
DelDOT hopes to seek bids for U.S. 301 construction early next year if the project qualifies for a low-interest federal loan guarantee and if bond rating supports the financing plan.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on August 22, 2013, 10:51:12 AM
Two road related articles in one day is rare for DE!

Progress made in fixing US 301 snafus as state firms up land buys (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130822/NEWS02/308220040/Progress-made-fixing-US-301-snafus-state-firms-up-land-buys)

Quote
State highway officials have moved to secure hundreds of acres of development rights left unclaimed during a mismanaged $16 million deal on land needed for the planned U.S. 301 toll road.

Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt noted an agreement with Middletown on the transferable rights on Wednesday, during a wide-ranging briefing for news organizations on DelDOT issues, projects and priorities.

Quote
The agency hopes to start construction of the $471 million, 14-mile toll-road connector — stretching between the state line west of Middletown and the Del. 1 Roth bridge — in the spring of 2014, with an opening by 2017.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on September 09, 2013, 09:31:17 PM
Preeeetty much.

It'll be a wonder if the entire US 301 relocation gets built.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: elsmere241 on September 10, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
Preeeetty much.

It'll be a wonder if the entire US 301 relocation gets built.

DelDOT is quickly buying up the land for it.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on October 26, 2013, 11:44:16 AM
Diminished projections raise doubts for U.S. 301 plan (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20131026/NEWS1501/310260024/Diminished-projections-raise-doubts-U-S-301-plan)

Quote
In another setback for the extension of U.S. 301, deep cuts in the projections for traffic and toll receipts are raising questions about how Delaware will finance the project without the state kicking in $50 million to $100 million more than expected.

The new projections could also delay construction by six months and scuttle Delaware’s bid for a $193 million low-cost federal loan – expected to cover a third of the cost of the 14.5-mile mainline, state officials said Friday.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on October 26, 2013, 08:11:28 PM
Diminished projections raise doubts for U.S. 301 plan (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20131026/NEWS1501/310260024/Diminished-projections-raise-doubts-U-S-301-plan)

Quote
In another setback for the extension of U.S. 301, deep cuts in the projections for traffic and toll receipts are raising questions about how Delaware will finance the project without the state kicking in $50 million to $100 million more than expected.

The new projections could also delay construction by six months and scuttle Delaware’s bid for a $193 million low-cost federal loan – expected to cover a third of the cost of the 14.5-mile mainline, state officials said Friday.

I found it interesting that in reading that they quoted someone in support of the project.  Usually with these huge highway projects they only focus on people throwing hissy-fits over it.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on February 11, 2014, 09:28:27 AM
Budget proposal moves US 301 extension forward (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20140211/NEWS15/302110057/Budget-proposal-moves-US-301-extension-forward?nclick_check=1)

Quote
A provision in the state’s proposed capital budget would allow Delaware officials to move forward with the much-anticipated extension of U.S. 301 around Middletown, with some opponents claiming the state will stick taxpayers with expenses for the toll road that can’t pay for itself.

The budget language would allow Transportation Trust Fund money to be used for the project, which already has seen toll revenue projections reduced in a recent survey that suggested significantly less traffic on the road.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alps on February 11, 2014, 09:10:47 PM
Budget proposal moves US 301 extension forward (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20140211/NEWS15/302110057/Budget-proposal-moves-US-301-extension-forward?nclick_check=1)

Quote
A provision in the state’s proposed capital budget would allow Delaware officials to move forward with the much-anticipated extension of U.S. 301 around Middletown, with some opponents claiming the state will stick taxpayers with expenses for the toll road that can’t pay for itself.

The budget language would allow Transportation Trust Fund money to be used for the project, which already has seen toll revenue projections reduced in a recent survey that suggested significantly less traffic on the road.
This is worse than waiting for the US 46/NJ 3 split construction to begin.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on July 18, 2014, 07:16:13 PM
DelawareOnline.com: US 301 toll road plan gets ratings boost (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/07/16/toll-road-plan-gets-tentative-ok-rating-agency/12768145/)

Quote
The state of Delaware is prepared to ask for federal loan support to move forward with a U.S. 301 toll plan following good news from a bond rating agency, a DelDOT official said Wednesday.

Quote
DelDOT's plan calls for a 14-mile toll-road connector stretching between the state line west of Middletown and the Del. 1 Roth Bridge. Supporters say the road would improve safety and reduce congestion and pollution compared with travel along existing U.S. 301 in southern New Castle County.

Quote
Moody's Investors Services gave the $400 million mainline construction portion of the plan a positive rating after Delaware officials said borrowing would be backed by Transportation Trust Fund revenues if toll collections fall short.
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 30, 2014, 12:50:33 AM
It seems we're getting closer to the construction of the US 301 toll road commencing.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/12/28/deldot-toll-road/20961125/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/12/28/deldot-toll-road/20961125/)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 14, 2015, 01:23:23 PM
It appears that the state is close to making an announcement concerning the source of federal funding for the US 301 toll road.  Also mentioned in the linked article is the dangerous nature of the current 2 lane configuration of Summit Bridge Road between DE 896 and Middletown, which manifested itself this weekend in a deadly head-on crash near Marl Pit Road.

Full story: http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/07/14/state-close-announcement-us-financing/30130151/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/07/14/state-close-announcement-us-financing/30130151/)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 25, 2015, 08:52:04 PM
DelDOT put together a flyover animation of the US 301 tollway, similar to the one they did for the DE 1 / I-95 interchange.

http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on July 26, 2015, 12:49:45 AM
Are they planning to re-route US-301 to and up DE-1?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 27, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
Are they planning to re-route US-301 to and up DE-1?

I assume they'd route it to DE 1, as for up to I-95 I have no clue.  They've been pretty quiet as to what everything will look like route-wise when this is all said and done.

IMO, I'd like to see DE 71 routed down the current US 301 then DE 896 routed down the remainder of Summit Bridge Road, as opposed to jogging eastward on Boyds Corner Road.  If they really want to keep Boyds Corner Road signed as something, then extend Maryland's numbering of 310 over Churchtown Road and Boyds Corner Road to DE 1.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Henry on July 28, 2015, 11:58:32 AM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 28, 2015, 09:19:45 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: noelbotevera on July 28, 2015, 09:38:01 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 28, 2015, 10:02:13 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.

It's a good connector, sure, that doesn't mean traffic counts justify upgrades in Maryland.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 28, 2015, 10:56:34 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.

How does one dodge Wilmington & Philly on 301 when 301 never reaches those cities?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: noelbotevera on July 28, 2015, 11:00:10 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.

How does one dodge Wilmington & Philly on 301 when 301 never reaches those cities?
Use US 40 at the end of US 301 (I did not quite explain that well). However, now you've got the Delaware Memorial Bridge to deal with.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on July 28, 2015, 11:04:37 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.

How does one dodge Wilmington & Philly on 301 when 301 never reaches those cities?

Replace US 202 with US 301!!!11
[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: noelbotevera on July 28, 2015, 11:14:55 PM
I just saw the US 301 video, and that gives me reason to believe that it will eventually connect to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. It would make a great route for those who wish to avoid Baltimore and Washington.

Wasn't US 301 lucky to be built to the standard it's at in Maryland as it is?  The locals wanted nothing to do with a freeway IIRC, I don't see Maryland's portion being upgraded anytime soon.  It doesn't seem to need an upgrade anyway.
As noted above, US 301 is a great connector for Annapolis to Wilmington, or Washington DC to Wilmington via Annapolis. Not only that, US 301 is a good way to go from Washington DC, Annapolis, etc. to the Jersey Shore or New York (via US 40 and US 40 and NJ Turnpike), while dodging I-95, Baltimore, a part of Wilmington, and Philadelphia.

How does one dodge Wilmington & Philly on 301 when 301 never reaches those cities?

Replace US 202 with US 301!!!11
[/sarcasm]
That's a great idea!!!
le sarcasm

Being serious, I'm pretty sure a freeway upgrade would not be needed yet, but if needed, a portion between US 50 and MD 300 (about 20 miles) could be freeway. MD 300 and some backroads past the Delaware line take you to US 13.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Zeffy on July 28, 2015, 11:27:58 PM
It'd be nice if there was a more major route that allowed you to jump from to US 301 from US 13 in the Dover area and vice-versa, but there's not really a need for it.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: D-Dey65 on August 05, 2015, 01:18:38 AM
DelDOT put together a flyover animation of the US 301 tollway, similar to the one they did for the DE 1 / I-95 interchange.

http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/)
I'd just be happy if they expanded US 301 into Pennsylvania and made US 1 the northern terminus again.

Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: TravelingBethelite on August 05, 2015, 07:52:43 AM
DelDOT put together a flyover animation of the US 301 tollway, similar to the one they did for the DE 1 / I-95 interchange.

http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/)
I'd just be happy if they expanded US 301 into Pennsylvania and made US 1 the northern terminus again.
If this [scenario] happened, would the southern terminus remain the same?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: D-Dey65 on August 05, 2015, 08:35:29 AM
If this [scenario] happened, would the southern terminus remain the same?  :hmmm:
Hmm, good point. The only scenario I could think of for that would be expanding in a multiplex with US 41 down to Miami, but that would be a useless multiplex... unless perhaps you branch it off somewhere else before the terminus of US 41.

 :-/



Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 05, 2015, 01:13:03 PM
DelDOT put together a flyover animation of the US 301 tollway, similar to the one they did for the DE 1 / I-95 interchange.

http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/2015/07/24/30619501/)
I'd just be happy if they expanded US 301 into Pennsylvania and made US 1 the northern terminus again.
If we're talking about a freeway extension into PA, only going to US 1 would only help half the corridor. Going all the way to Lancaster and connecting to US 30 would be far more beneficial.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 05, 2015, 01:23:21 PM
Maybe the only significant project would be at Interchange 3, and that's not going to happen for several years.  So DelDOT can freely spend the 95 toll money around on non-95 related projects for awhile.

This is being discussed, however it's being tied more to the DE 273 / Harmony Road intersection improvements as opposed to being its own entity.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on August 05, 2015, 01:26:18 PM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 05, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on August 05, 2015, 10:06:14 PM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 06, 2015, 08:37:07 AM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
First thing to remember...is there actually any rule regarding a toll-free US option, or are we in urban-legend territory here?  In all the reports I've heard about the US 301 toll project in Delaware, making sure a toll-free US route option is available has never come up.  Being that the studying of this project
is no less than 6 or 7 years old, that would've been something that should have already been considered.

US 13 is fairly close to the proposed US 301 routing much of its length.  If you want to say that there's no US route near the DE/MD state line of US 301, there are other roads in that area that can be redesigned as a US route to satisfy the requirement, if such requirement exists.

(Edited to fix bad placement of the end quote brackets)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: iBallasticwolf2 on August 06, 2015, 09:12:12 AM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
First thing to remember...is there actually any rule regarding a toll-free US option, or are we in urban-legend territory here?  In all the reports I've heard about the US 301 toll project in Delaware, making sure a toll-free US route option is available has never come up.  Being that the studying of this project

is no less than 6 or 7 years old, that would've been something that should have already been considered.

US 13 is fairly close to the proposed US 301 routing much of its length.  If you want to say that there's no US route near the DE/MD state line of US 301, there are other roads in that area that can be redesigned as a US route to satisfy the requirement, if such requirement exists.
I would personally see it fit to build a connector and designate that and old US 301 US 301 Alt. Although wouldn't it be a spur?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: ekt8750 on August 06, 2015, 10:18:18 AM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
First thing to remember...is there actually any rule regarding a toll-free US option, or are we in urban-legend territory here?  In all the reports I've heard about the US 301 toll project in Delaware, making sure a toll-free US route option is available has never come up.  Being that the studying of this project

is no less than 6 or 7 years old, that would've been something that should have already been considered.

US 13 is fairly close to the proposed US 301 routing much of its length.  If you want to say that there's no US route near the DE/MD state line of US 301, there are other roads in that area that can be redesigned as a US route to satisfy the requirement, if such requirement exists.
I would personally see it fit to build a connector and designate that and old US 301 US 301 Alt. Although wouldn't it be a spur?

US Routes don't have spurs. Alts, Trucks and Business routes but no spurs. A 3DUS technically counts as a spur off a 2DUS.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: iBallasticwolf2 on August 06, 2015, 10:21:21 AM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
First thing to remember...is there actually any rule regarding a toll-free US option, or are we in urban-legend territory here?  In all the reports I've heard about the US 301 toll project in Delaware, making sure a toll-free US route option is available has never come up.  Being that the studying of this project

is no less than 6 or 7 years old, that would've been something that should have already been considered.

US 13 is fairly close to the proposed US 301 routing much of its length.  If you want to say that there's no US route near the DE/MD state line of US 301, there are other roads in that area that can be redesigned as a US route to satisfy the requirement, if such requirement exists.
I would personally see it fit to build a connector and designate that and old US 301 US 301 Alt. Although wouldn't it be a spur?

US Routes don't have spurs. Alts, Trucks and Business routes but no spurs. A 3DUS technically counts as a spur off a 2DUS.

I was thinking that. It wouldn't really connect up back with the US 301 proper since US 301 would be ending at DE 1.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 06, 2015, 02:43:02 PM
I would personally see it fit to build a connector and designate that and old US 301 US 301 Alt. Although wouldn't it be a spur?

Or we could not, because the current plans are sufficient and you're just drawing lines on a map for the sake of it looking good.  There's literally a diamond interchange that ties into the old roadway just a mile (if that) up the road, have you even looked at the maps?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: iBallasticwolf2 on August 06, 2015, 02:47:52 PM
I would personally see it fit to build a connector and designate that and old US 301 US 301 Alt. Although wouldn't it be a spur?

Or we could not, because the current plans are sufficient and you're just drawing lines on a map for the sake of it looking good.  There's literally a diamond interchange that ties into the old roadway just a mile (if that) up the road, have you even looked at the maps?
You know what? I'm not going to try to argue with you. You win. I am just going to shut up now.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on August 06, 2015, 07:58:14 PM
I took a look at the maps, and the proposed Delaware tolls are much like those that were set-up on the Delaware Turnpike when it opened in 1963 - a main toll barrier just inside the Maryland border, and then ramp tolls (in both directions) at the interchanges beyond, so traffic not headed to or from Maryland must pay.

When the bonds for this project are paid-off, does this suddenly turn into another Delaware Turnpike, with all tolls collected at the border toll barrier?

There does not appear to be any way for traffic to exit the road in Delaware in order to avoid the tolls.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on August 06, 2015, 08:23:27 PM
I see that at the State Line there will be no connection to the existing US 301 (which will be former US 301 when completed) as all traffic will default onto the toll road, but existing US 301 will stop at Strawberry Lane which will have a grade separation to US 301 without any kind of interchange.

To shunpike one will have to leave US 301 in Maryland at the last intersection and go through Warwick and pick up DE 299 as going beyond the last NB intersection will only lead you to the toll road.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not FHWA require for a US route to be tolled to have a free alternate route?  Like with US 412 in Oklahoma, you have US 64 and US 412 Alternate where the us route becomes two of its turnpikes, plus in Kansas its the only reason why US 81 was not turned over to local control south of Wichita where in Kansas US routes paralleling freeways are moved over onto the better quality roadway, but south of Wichita the I-35 freeway is tolled so US 81 leaves the freeway system just south of the KTA toll barrier on I-135.

US 1, US 13 & US 40 are all alternative routes within close proximity with US 301. 
Not directly.  If you are coming through or from Annapolis and the Bay Bridge, US 1, US 13, or US 40 do you no good.  I am talking about directly like US 64 is to US 412 in OK.  Even if MD 213 was still US 213, as close as it is, it is not directly connected to the ends of the toll road.

If you build a connector to the soon to be old US 301, then you have it.  However, plans show for all MD traffic crossing the state line all having to pay toll as the existing US 301 two lane road will end at Strawberry Lane, and Strawberry Lane will have an overpass over the new US 301 with no ramps.  Even DE 299 from Warwick, MD will become west side frontage road to US 301 and have to zig zag over another E-W road to get to the current road into Middletown.
First thing to remember...is there actually any rule regarding a toll-free US option, or are we in urban-legend territory here?  In all the reports I've heard about the US 301 toll project in Delaware, making sure a toll-free US route option is available has never come up.  Being that the studying of this project
is no less than 6 or 7 years old, that would've been something that should have already been considered.

US 13 is fairly close to the proposed US 301 routing much of its length.  If you want to say that there's no US route near the DE/MD state line of US 301, there are other roads in that area that can be redesigned as a US route to satisfy the requirement, if such requirement exists.

(Edited to fix bad placement of the end quote brackets)
If they did MD 282 and DE 299 would have to fit that bill.

Anyway Jeff, you are talking about non road geeks who do not think like us.  Yes you and I to shunpike the tolls would use MD 282 and DE 299 or simply cut over to MD 213 to head to US 40 or I-95, but a non road geek would cry and say its difficult.  Wait and see when it opens when some have to start shelling out money that they did not before.  I heard it when they tolled FL 528 near the Orlando International Airport back in 1982, as for years it was free.  People did not understand that, although longer, it does have a toll bypass using the newly aligned McCoy Road, so only the upgrade from arterial to freeway got tolled in reality, but being the 528 moniker got shifted and the fact the toll freeway sits on top of the old four lane McCoy Road people did not see the difference.

IMO, wait till the DRTJC starts charging to cross the Delaware River on I-95!  You will hear people rant like mad, especially those who did not attend the regional hearings open to the public where they could have attended and voiced their concerns.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 06, 2015, 09:24:11 PM
When the bonds for this project are paid-off, does this suddenly turn into another Delaware Turnpike, with all tolls collected at the border toll barrier?

DelDOT's never indicated their intention to remove tolls when they paid this thing off, which leads me to believe that the tolls are here to stay.

Branching off from that, were DE 1's tolls ever intended to be removed when the road was paid off? Has the road even been fully paid off?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 06, 2015, 09:38:38 PM
Regarding the 301 project: A lot of this project was designed prior to 2010. In the time since, AET has become the standard in tolling. When it is finally built, I don't see them building the cash lanes.

Regarding 95/Scudder Falls: There's already been some crying about the tolls. But realistically, there's no other way to rebuild that bridge without tolling it.

Regarding Route 1: That road is a long ways away from being paid off. Especially only charging a dollar per car during the week ($2 if they go the entire length), it probably never will be fully paid off.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 17, 2015, 04:24:45 PM
Looks like we're getting incredibly close to the 301 toll road becoming reality.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/)

Quote
After decades of study, public uproars and financial breakdowns, the U.S. 301 toll road relief route now appears on track for a January construction start and opening as early as December 2018 – provided bids and borrowing costs meet forecasts.

Quote
Plans call for use of all-electronic tolls in a system that will rely on both EZ Pass transponders as well as a “pay-by-plate” system that captures images of auto tags and bills drivers. Initially, cars would pay $4 and trucks $11 for a full-distance trip, with truck tolls accounting for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on August 17, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
Looks like we're getting incredibly close to the 301 toll road becoming reality.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/)

Quote
After decades of study, public uproars and financial breakdowns, the U.S. 301 toll road relief route now appears on track for a January construction start and opening as early as December 2018 – provided bids and borrowing costs meet forecasts.

Quote
Plans call for use of all-electronic tolls in a system that will rely on both EZ Pass transponders as well as a “pay-by-plate” system that captures images of auto tags and bills drivers. Initially, cars would pay $4 and trucks $11 for a full-distance trip, with truck tolls accounting for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

About time. The sprawl of Middletown is not going to stop, so better to get this built now before it becomes too costly or before the NIMBY's gain a resurgence.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 17, 2015, 09:53:28 PM
so better to get this built now before it becomes too costly

This.  Middletown is only getting larger, and I have a hard time believing that the traffic counts are going to be as dire as they're (or at least delawareonline) trying to make it sound.  My only question at this point is whether Route 1 will be able to handle the added traffic from the new tollway, DelDOT has the current date for that project pegged at late 2018 - late 2019.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 17, 2015, 10:45:21 PM
Looks like we're getting incredibly close to the 301 toll road becoming reality.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/08/17/us-loan-approved/31853827/)

Quote
After decades of study, public uproars and financial breakdowns, the U.S. 301 toll road relief route now appears on track for a January construction start and opening as early as December 2018 – provided bids and borrowing costs meet forecasts.

Quote
Plans call for use of all-electronic tolls in a system that will rely on both EZ Pass transponders as well as a “pay-by-plate” system that captures images of auto tags and bills drivers. Initially, cars would pay $4 and trucks $11 for a full-distance trip, with truck tolls accounting for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

I think they are wayyyyyy overestimating the truck revenues. 

But, going back to the recent posts that showed the initial plans from about 2009, they clearly have abandoned the separate lanes for express EZ Pass and cash tolls.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: ChezeHed81 on August 18, 2015, 01:55:44 PM
One thing that I wish I could bring to the attention of DelDOT is this trailblazer assembly from the contractor's documents listed under the project website:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/651/20684246175_e7e32ae3ac.jpg)

If the facility is to accept non-ETC account holders, the use of "ONLY" is contradictory, and doesn't match the direction as outlined in the MUTCD, page 244, paragraph 11.  According the the examples in Figure 2F-4 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/fig2f_04_longdesc.htm) for guidance on trailblazers and Figure 2F-5 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/fig2f_05_longdesc.htm) for guidance on larger guide signs, the option to accept non-ETC account holders means the the facility should be signed like a standard toll road because it is not exclusively for ETC account holders.  I don't have a problem with listing E-ZPass and "Pay By Mail", which are done in other states (see examples below), but at least the use of "ONLY" in this situation seems to be inappropriate.

The example set by Florida's Turnpike Enterprise (https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9522541,-82.3658486,3a,52y,313.72h,91.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2mDey0fCGPTnTCyY8jEgBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) for signing entrances to AET facilities where not every user is required to have an ETC account is among the best I've seen.  Another example that I like, is North Carolina's Wake [Toll]way entrance sign assemblies (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8636735,-78.8470166,3a,49.5y,193.63h,89.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-ms_RUjWFQpUhaa1BqQy5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1).  Maryland's ICC Entrance signage (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gaithersburg,+MD/@39.072495,-76.9385911,3a,33.5y,1.86h,91.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdioRSpSoqt8zO1kzJiFA8Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdioRSpSoqt8zO1kzJiFA8Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D11.213622%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b62d3624ca13b5:0xe38f5a8180ad7235!6m1!1e1) is okay, in that it's understandable, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison since it's a "uni-sign".
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 18, 2015, 02:04:51 PM
One thing that I wish I could bring to the attention of DelDOT is this trailblazer assembly from the contractor's documents listed under the project website:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/651/20684246175_e7e32ae3ac.jpg)

DelDOT would do well to review the MUTCD, page 244, paragraph 11, as well as Figure 2F-4 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/fig2f_04_longdesc.htm) and Figure 2F-5 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/fig2f_05_longdesc.htm) for guidance on trailblazers.

The example set by Florida's Turnpike Enterprise (https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9522541,-82.3658486,3a,52y,313.72h,91.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2mDey0fCGPTnTCyY8jEgBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) for signing entrances to AET facilities where not every user is required to have an ETC account is among the best I've seen.  Another example that I like, is North Carolina's Wake [Toll]way entrance sign assemblies (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8636735,-78.8470166,3a,49.5y,193.63h,89.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-ms_RUjWFQpUhaa1BqQy5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1).  Maryland's ICC Entrance signage (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gaithersburg,+MD/@39.072495,-76.9385911,3a,33.5y,1.86h,91.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdioRSpSoqt8zO1kzJiFA8Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdioRSpSoqt8zO1kzJiFA8Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D11.213622%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b62d3624ca13b5:0xe38f5a8180ad7235!6m1!1e1) is okay, in that it's understandable, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison since it's a "uni-sign".

Can you point out what is wrong with it as well?

I'm guessing it's the "EZ Pass ONLY" portion of the sign, since it's "EZ Pass or Pay by Mail".

If you give DelDOT a call via one of their numbers on their front page, you may be able to get routed to the correct department.  Or, since you have access to the contractor docs, there may be contact info there that you can use to let them know.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: ChezeHed81 on August 18, 2015, 02:24:03 PM
The documents I referenced are found here (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ContractorInfo/index.shtml).  Each contract has its own signage sheets, and it seems that there are some Florida & Texas influences therein.  I like that they are using Annapolis instead of Bay Bridge as the destination.  That's new for the Eastern Shore.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on August 18, 2015, 02:36:43 PM
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/651/20684246175_e7e32ae3ac.jpg)
Personally, I would make the M4-20 (sans the ONLY banner since it's not accurate here) & GM-4 signs into one composite sign panel; especially since such toll collection methods are indeed being implemented elsewhere and will be used more frequently as time marches on.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 18, 2015, 02:40:37 PM
The documents I referenced are found here (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ContractorInfo/index.shtml).  Each contract has its own signage sheets, and it seems that there are some Florida & Texas influences therein.  I like that they are using Annapolis instead of Bay Bridge as the destination.  That's new for the Eastern Shore.

Since their contact info is there, you can probably send an email and let them know exactly what you mentioned above (with the reason why it was wrong!).
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 18, 2015, 06:20:20 PM
The documents I referenced are found here (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ContractorInfo/index.shtml).  Each contract has its own signage sheets, and it seems that there are some Florida & Texas influences therein.  I like that they are using Annapolis instead of Bay Bridge as the destination.  That's new for the Eastern Shore.

Uncommon? Yes.
New? No.

(http://i.imgur.com/7rn6f7i.png)
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6076031,-75.7430025,3a,15y,152.91h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZoCtfwTEzez3AQ0vNoySA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6076031,-75.7430025,3a,15y,152.91h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZoCtfwTEzez3AQ0vNoySA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on August 18, 2015, 09:23:16 PM
The documents I referenced are found here (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ContractorInfo/index.shtml).  Each contract has its own signage sheets, and it seems that there are some Florida & Texas influences therein.  I like that they are using Annapolis instead of Bay Bridge as the destination.  That's new for the Eastern Shore.

I looked at the signage for the interchange at DE 1.  It looks like US 301 will have variable speed limits like I-495.

Also, on the issue on toll signage, their bill by plate sign says:

"We Bill You With Toll By Plate"
"Subject to Admin Charges"
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: D-Dey65 on October 16, 2015, 11:54:36 PM
I'd just be happy with the conversion of US 301 into a four-lane divided highway through the Maryland state line.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: elsmere241 on November 13, 2015, 03:25:08 PM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/11/13/funds-approved-us-301-toll-road-construction/75709768/
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: odditude on November 13, 2015, 05:00:03 PM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/11/13/funds-approved-us-301-toll-road-construction/75709768/
so US 301 is to be rerouted on this new alignment to terminate at DE 1, with the old alignment remaining DE 896 (and partially DE 71)?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on November 30, 2015, 10:31:34 PM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/11/13/funds-approved-us-301-toll-road-construction/75709768/
so US 301 is to be rerouted on this new alignment to terminate at DE 1, with the old alignment remaining DE 896 (and partially DE 71)?

In theory, yes, but we'll see what AASHTO says.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 01, 2015, 12:05:30 AM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/11/13/funds-approved-us-301-toll-road-construction/75709768/
so US 301 is to be rerouted on this new alignment to terminate at DE 1, with the old alignment remaining DE 896 (and partially DE 71)?

-and DE 299 and DE 15.  I suppose the segment of road between the DE 71 split and the DE 299 / 15 intersection will go unnumbered unless they decide to jockey a lot of state routes around or sign it as a business route.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 01, 2015, 07:36:51 PM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/11/13/funds-approved-us-301-toll-road-construction/75709768/
so US 301 is to be rerouted on this new alignment to terminate at DE 1, with the old alignment remaining DE 896 (and partially DE 71)?

-and DE 299 and DE 15.  I suppose the segment of road between the DE 71 split and the DE 299 / 15 intersection will go unnumbered unless they decide to jockey a lot of state routes around or sign it as a business route.
I figured they'd sign some state highway over the part from US 301 to at least 71, if not 896.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 02, 2015, 09:13:47 AM
I figured they'd sign some state highway over the part from US 301 to at least 71, if not 896.

Given that DelDOT gave no designation to the former US 113 (Bay Road) in south Dover, I'd expect it to be left unnumbered.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 02, 2015, 06:41:10 PM
I figured they'd sign some state highway over the part from US 301 to at least 71, if not 896.

Given that DelDOT gave no designation to the former US 113 (Bay Road) in south Dover, I'd expect it to be left unnumbered.
I feel like that's different. 113 in Dover is a relatively minor route now that it has been bypassed. We're talking here about a short link of through road connecting two state highways. Both 299 and 71 turn onto/off of US 301 here - compare to Bay Road, which is a turn at US 13 and somewhat disconnected at DE 1.
Is it true or false that State Roads get a lesser degree of maintenance/funding than numbered highways? If it's false, then never mind, because I imagine the best thing to do with this route is sign it TO DE 71 northbound and TO DE 299 southbound. If it's true, then at least this should be a secret route (not that DelDOT is known for those). For one mile, and given their other odd designations around the state, I could see it signed as 71A.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 03, 2015, 08:55:13 AM
I figured they'd sign some state highway over the part from US 301 to at least 71, if not 896.

Given that DelDOT gave no designation to the former US 113 (Bay Road) in south Dover, I'd expect it to be left unnumbered.
I feel like that's different. 113 in Dover is a relatively minor route now that it has been bypassed. We're talking here about a short link of through road connecting two state highways. Both 299 and 71 turn onto/off of US 301 here - compare to Bay Road, which is a turn at US 13 and somewhat disconnected at DE 1.
Is it true or false that State Roads get a lesser degree of maintenance/funding than numbered highways? If it's false, then never mind, because I imagine the best thing to do with this route is sign it TO DE 71 northbound and TO DE 299 southbound. If it's true, then at least this should be a secret route (not that DelDOT is known for those). For one mile, and given their other odd designations around the state, I could see it signed as 71A.

The level of maintenance would be the same. Now that I look at it, a likely scenario is to reroute DE 71 off of North Broad Street and have it dog leg east from Middletown Warwick Road via Main Street back to South Broad Street. That would also eliminate a state route railroad crossing, where DE 71 currently branches off of US 301 at an acute angle.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: mariethefoxy on December 03, 2015, 01:24:21 PM
the non-numbered state roads in the bottom part of the state near Delmar appear to be in good condition, pavement is good, the road markings are good, the signs appear to be good. (it was some 500 series road with a tiny little marker on the pole thats holding up the Stop sign.)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on December 03, 2015, 03:55:49 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 03, 2015, 05:43:53 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?

Unnumbered like the Puncheon Run Connector? TO DE 896 north and TO US 301 south.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 03, 2015, 06:07:13 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?

Unnumbered like the Puncheon Run Connector? TO DE 896 north and TO US 301 south.
Good point. If they can unnumber the Puncheon Run Connector, they can unnumber anything else they want. (dreams of the ALT 301 days)
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 03, 2015, 07:46:28 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?

US 301 spur if anything at all. I could see it being signed as "TO 301" and "TO 896" for south / northbound traffic respectively.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 03, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?

US 301 spur if anything at all. I could see it being signed as "TO 301" and "TO 896" for south / northbound traffic respectively.

Won't DelDOT have to sign Alternate U.S. 301 somewhere when they get the "new" (and tolled) U.S. 301 completed?

Do you remember U.S. 301 North and U.S. 301 South in Delaware?

Response by Alex4897 at 9:21 PM 12/9 below, this was done to move US 301 Project info to the new topic
-Mark

US 301 spur if anything at all. I could see it being signed as "TO 301" and "TO 896" for south / northbound traffic respectively.
Won't DelDOT have to sign Alternate U.S. 301 somewhere when they get the "new" (and tolled) U.S. 301 completed?

Do you remember U.S. 301 North and U.S. 301 South in Delaware?

Not personally, I wasn't around for that but I am aware of the history lol


Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 10, 2015, 10:25:46 AM
IMO, this deserves its own subject thread now.

I saw work getting started on the U.S. 301 toll road project last weekend. 

Silt fences and other preliminary work is starting along U.S. 301 north of the Delaware 299 intersection.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 10, 2015, 04:41:50 PM
Could you provide some specifics on this toll road project? What are the two terminuses? Where is the general route? How far away is it from existing US 301? When might it be completed?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 10, 2015, 05:52:39 PM
Could you provide some specifics on this toll road project? What are the two terminuses? Where is the general route? How far away is it from existing US 301? When might it be completed?

http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 10, 2015, 08:37:20 PM
Could you provide some specifics on this toll road project? What are the two terminuses? Where is the general route? How far away is it from existing US 301? When might it be completed?

http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/ (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/)

Work is slated to start next month and run through December 2018. Additional contracts on the project should be awarded by year's end. Only the contract for the northernmost segment has been awarded so far otherwise.
Title: Re: Re: Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 10, 2015, 09:11:55 PM
Anyone care to guess what DE will number the spur to the Summit Point Bridge while we are at it?

US 301 spur if anything at all. I could see it being signed as "TO 301" and "TO 896" for south / northbound traffic respectively.

Won't DelDOT have to sign Alternate U.S. 301 somewhere when they get the "new" (and tolled) U.S. 301 completed?

Do you remember U.S. 301 North and U.S. 301 South in Delaware?

According to this - http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/pdfs/Section_4BC_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011_1.pdf - it will be 301 SPUR

Mike
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: TheOneKEA on December 10, 2015, 09:28:55 PM
This project is definitely going to make a big difference in the usage of US 301 as a bypass of I-95. I'll be interested in how traffic counts change on US 301 in Maryland as segments of this project are constructed and open up to traffic.

Are there any indications about what desgination will be assigned to the former US 301 mainline? Will it be replaced with a US Business route designation or will it become a state highway? The project page doesn't have any prominent info on this ropic.

Also, Section 3 extends into MD, presumably to eliminate the existing dual carriageway ending. One of the maps and the contract info claims that the contract ends at the state line but it's somewhat ambiguous; this map (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/pdfs/Section_3_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011.pdf) clearly shows the new dual carriageway segment that will be built in MD. Will that section be built by a DelDOT-selected contractor or an MDOT SHA-selected contractor?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 10, 2015, 09:56:11 PM
this map (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/pdfs/Section_3_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011.pdf) clearly shows the new dual carriageway segment that will be built in MD. Will that section be built by a DelDOT-selected contractor or an MDOT SHA-selected contractor?
I would imagine, for simplicity, DelDOT has a deal worked out with MdSHA where they can do the work on the MD side of the border, as long as they pay for it and meet MD standards.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: TheOneKEA on December 10, 2015, 10:06:21 PM
this map (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/pdfs/Section_3_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011.pdf) clearly shows the new dual carriageway segment that will be built in MD. Will that section be built by a DelDOT-selected contractor or an MDOT SHA-selected contractor?
I would imagine, for simplicity, DelDOT has a deal worked out with MdSHA where they can do the work on the MD side of the border, as long as they pay for it and meet MD standards.

That makes sense, but I haven't seen that done before for a project that wasn't also being built by SHA (such as the Wilson Bridge). I'll have to head up there this winter and see if SHA posts one of their Billy Bollard work zone signs or if there's a DelDOT work zone sign instead.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 11, 2015, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: TheOneKEA
This project is definitely going to make a big difference in the usage of US 301 as a bypass of I-95.

Until those using it as such hit the hell that is the Bay Bridge, especially on summer weekends...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on December 11, 2015, 10:05:14 AM
Last summer I used US-301 North on a Sunday morning as an I-95 bypass. The Bay Bridge and 50/301 freeway was busy, but moving without a problem.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 11, 2015, 10:29:41 AM
You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on December 11, 2015, 10:58:27 AM
It was likely before 10am, I hit a small backup at the eastern end of the bridge for some reason. Odd because it was right were the road widened to 4 lanes!

Even with the new road in Delaware, the tolls are significantly cheaper than taking I-95 northbound.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on December 11, 2015, 11:51:15 AM
You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.

Could this make a 3rd span an economic no-brainer.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: TheOneKEA on December 11, 2015, 01:18:10 PM
You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.

Could this make a 3rd span an economic no-brainer.

I doubt a third span of the Bay Bridge could be paid for by any means other than an Act of Congress. If the Governor Nice Bridge replacement will cost $1.5 billion a third span at the Bay Bridge will likely cost twice that much. I woukd be amazed if the MdTA could fund both projects.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 1995hoo on December 11, 2015, 01:24:32 PM
The environmental concerns with the Chesapeake, which is a very troubled estuary, would further increase the cost, likely by a substantial amount.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 11, 2015, 01:51:11 PM
...and this would be at the same time that MdTA is trying to pay back the bonds used to build both the ICC and the I-95 ETL's northeast of Baltimore (roughly $2B total attributable to MdTA between the two projects).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on December 11, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.

The fair point is that the effectiveness of US 301 as a bypass route is dependent on timing.

If you're traveling on a summer weekend in the direction of beachgoing traffic, then yeah, you really don't want to do this.

If you are seeking to avoid I-95 because of weekday rush hour, because of travel for Thanksgiving or Christmas, because of winter weather, or even just because you really are sick of being on I-95, it can work decently.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Henry on December 14, 2015, 11:05:52 AM
You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.

The fair point is that the effectiveness of US 301 as a bypass route is dependent on timing.

If you're traveling on a summer weekend in the direction of beachgoing traffic, then yeah, you really don't want to do this.

If you are seeking to avoid I-95 because of weekday rush hour, because of travel for Thanksgiving or Christmas, because of winter weather, or even just because you really are sick of being on I-95, it can work decently.
Agreed, especially with the last two statements. The majority of summer beach traffic would be going to either Rehoboth Beach or Ocean City, so this wouldn't work anyway. However, I can definitely see this highway take the pressure off I-95 if done right. Perhaps we'll see in three years from now.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 11:14:16 AM
...and this would be at the same time that MdTA is trying to pay back the bonds used to build both the ICC and the I-95 ETL's northeast of Baltimore (roughly $2B total attributable to MdTA between the two projects).

According to the Washington Post (here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/10/14/traffic-on-intercounty-connector-is-growing-faster-than-on-other-md-tollways/)), the MdTA is  now collecting more revenue that it needs to maintain and operate Md. 200 and pay back the bonds that were issued to build it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 14, 2015, 11:39:09 AM
However, they still have those bonds to pay off.  So until they get several years down that road (pun intended), it'll be a crimp on their bonding capacity.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 04:45:01 PM
this map (http://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/pdfs/Section_3_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011.pdf) clearly shows the new dual carriageway segment that will be built in MD. Will that section be built by a DelDOT-selected contractor or an MDOT SHA-selected contractor?
I would imagine, for simplicity, DelDOT has a deal worked out with MdSHA where they can do the work on the MD side of the border, as long as they pay for it and meet MD standards.

In a similar situation, MdTA's project planning documents for the replacement of the U.S. 301 Gov. Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge has them reconstructing some of the approach on the Virginia side of the crossing to VDOT standards to meet-up with the new four lane structure starting at the Virginia shoreline.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
However, they still have those bonds to pay off.  So until they get several years down that road (pun intended), it'll be a crimp on their bonding capacity.

MdTA's bonding capacity is set by state statute, not by the "natural" ability of the authority to pay back bondholders and keep everything well-maintained out of toll revenues.  Not the only time that the Maryland General Assembly has interfered with MdTA's finances (they were required by the legislature to remove the JFK Highway ramp tolls after the Northeast Expressway [as the JFK was originally named] bonds were paid-off in the early 1980's).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 14, 2015, 07:44:27 PM
However, they still have those bonds to pay off.  So until they get several years down that road (pun intended), it'll be a crimp on their bonding capacity.

MdTA's bonding capacity is set by state statute, not by the "natural" ability of the authority to pay back bondholders and keep everything well-maintained out of toll revenues.  Not the only time that the Maryland General Assembly has interfered with MdTA's finances (they were required by the legislature to remove the JFK Highway ramp tolls after the Northeast Expressway [as the JFK was originally named] bonds were paid-off in the early 1980's).

Which just reinforces my comment even more.  Before MdTA can go off on another big project, they have to pay down some of the ICC and I-95 ETL, lest they hit their statutory bonding cap.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 09:52:15 PM
However, they still have those bonds to pay off.  So until they get several years down that road (pun intended), it'll be a crimp on their bonding capacity.

MdTA's bonding capacity is set by state statute, not by the "natural" ability of the authority to pay back bondholders and keep everything well-maintained out of toll revenues.  Not the only time that the Maryland General Assembly has interfered with MdTA's finances (they were required by the legislature to remove the JFK Highway ramp tolls after the Northeast Expressway [as the JFK was originally named] bonds were paid-off in the early 1980's).

Which just reinforces my comment even more.  Before MdTA can go off on another big project, they have to pay down some of the ICC and I-95 ETL, lest they hit their statutory bonding cap.

Or the General Assembly could just remove that cap and let the ratings agencies like Fitch provide guidance - as long as the debt that MdTA issues is "non-recourse" (not backed by the "full faith and credit" of Maryland (and Maryland's taxing powers), it is not clear to me why there needs to be a limit).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 23, 2015, 10:05:36 AM
Delaware Public Media: U.S. 301 construction set for January (http://delawarepublic.org/post/us-301-construction-set-january#stream/0)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Henry on December 23, 2015, 12:18:26 PM
Quote
Shovels are at the ready for Delaware’s biggest construction project in years.







DelDOT officials say work on two major portions of a new $400 million U.S. 301 toll road will begin no later than Jan. 11.
 
Project manager Javier Torrijos says they haven’t finalized a detailed schedule with contractors on the ground, but basic work will need to be done along the new roadway.

“One of the first things, obviously, in any contract, is to start clearing trees and grubbing so that you can start your embankment, your dirt moving operations, so that’s definitely going to be the order of business," Torrijos said.

Much of the work will also take place off of existing roadways.

“So it’s not going to be impacting traffic," said Torrijos. "The areas where it will impact traffic are, for example, like your local roads like Bunker Hill Road, Summit Bridge Road, some of those roads where we’ll be building a bridge over top of those roadways.”

Temporary road closures and detours will be announced at later dates. Hyett's Corner Road in Middletown will be among those closed for the majority of the project.

The new U.S. 301 connecter will be a four-lane toll highway running from Delaware-Maryland line, eventually joining with Route 1 just below the William Roth Bridge.

Five other remaining portions of the projects are either awaiting DelDOT to award contracts or go out to bid.

Torrijos expects construction to be completed by the end of December 2018.
I can't wait to hear about its opening in three years from now!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 23, 2015, 01:53:51 PM
Delaware Public Media: U.S. 301 construction set for January (http://delawarepublic.org/post/us-301-construction-set-january#stream/0)

Is it just me or does their DelDOT-logo's background look a bit, European in nature..?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wdde/files/styles/medium/public/201503/deldot.jpg)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 23, 2015, 02:09:24 PM
Looks to me like they're in the textile business.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: US 41 on December 23, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Delaware Public Media: U.S. 301 construction set for January (http://delawarepublic.org/post/us-301-construction-set-january#stream/0)

Is it just me or does their DelDOT-logo's background look a bit, European in nature..?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wdde/files/styles/medium/public/201503/deldot.jpg)

I think the road itself looks kind of European because of the guardrail in the narrow median, which seems to pretty common in Europe.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 23, 2015, 02:33:00 PM
Delaware Public Media: U.S. 301 construction set for January (http://delawarepublic.org/post/us-301-construction-set-january#stream/0)

Is it just me or does their DelDOT-logo's background look a bit, European in nature..?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wdde/files/styles/medium/public/201503/deldot.jpg)

I think the road itself looks kind of European because of the guardrail in the narrow median, which seems to pretty common in Europe.

Not to mention the white left shoulder line, and skip line space that appears to be 1:1.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on December 23, 2015, 04:30:29 PM
How much pressure will this place on Maryland to upgrade 301 back to at least the south(east) US 50 split?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 23, 2015, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC
How much pressure will this place on Maryland to upgrade 301 back to at least the south(east) US 50 split?

Minimal, given that:

A) 301 is already a limited-access expressway through there.
B) there are no traffic signals.
C) the busiest crossing (at MD 213) already is an interchange.
D) traffic volumes are fairly light...once you're past MD 19 heading north, daily volumes are no higher than 13K.  Plenty of capacity available.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: mrsman on December 24, 2015, 06:23:12 AM
As far as renumbering highways go, I would hope that they do no renumber US 301 onto a toll road.  Traffic should be directed to take the toll road with a BGS that reads:

US 301 North             DE-NN to DE-1 and I-95
Newark                           Wilmington/Philadelphia

Where DE-NN is a new state highway number.  The new number should be an unused number, as low as possible to signify that this is an important route.

Also, US 301 should be extended along DE-896 all the way to I-95.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 24, 2015, 08:12:21 AM
Too late, mrsman.  DelDOT received approval from AASHTO in 2011 to sign the toll road as US 301.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 25, 2015, 10:38:09 AM
D) traffic volumes are fairly light...once you're past MD 19 heading north, daily volumes are no higher than 13K.  Plenty of capacity available.

But wouldn't the 301 toll road bring more traffic to 301 in MD by connecting it better?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 25, 2015, 01:28:18 PM
Maybe a few thousand, but not as much as some may think.  Two things that will limit its utility to long-distance travelers are the tolls on the new roadway and congestion at both the Bay Bridge and on DE 1.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 25, 2015, 02:05:11 PM
Maybe Delaware should be worrying a bit more about moving traffic between 295 & 95.  One of the biggest delays in the entire Northeast/Mid-Atlantic area on Christmas Eve was northbound on 95 to 295 in Delaware, mostly because of all the thru traffic needing to squeeze into the 2 right lanes. 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 25, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Maybe Delaware should be worrying a bit more about moving traffic between 295 & 95.  One of the biggest delays in the entire Northeast/Mid-Atlantic area on Christmas Eve was northbound on 95 to 295 in Delaware, mostly because of all the thru traffic needing to squeeze into the 2 right lanes.

Traffic was backed up clear to DE 273 and probably past there at 5 PM, it looked like a nightmare.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 25, 2015, 10:10:30 PM
Maybe Delaware should be worrying a bit more about moving traffic between 295 & 95.  One of the biggest delays in the entire Northeast/Mid-Atlantic area on Christmas Eve was northbound on 95 to 295 in Delaware, mostly because of all the thru traffic needing to squeeze into the 2 right lanes.

Traffic was backed up clear to DE 273 and probably past there at 5 PM, it looked like a nightmare.

Generally from 896 to the 295 split, which is basically all of 95 In Delaware as far as most people are concerned.  My brother in law who traveled up said it took about an hour thru that stretch.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: mariethefoxy on January 05, 2016, 09:39:10 AM
thanksgiving weekend it was like that too, I come off the ramp from DE 1 and all of a sudden I'm like "oh shit" as I see the huge backup of cars.

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on January 05, 2016, 11:14:12 AM
Too late, mrsman.  DelDOT received approval from AASHTO in 2011 to sign the toll road as US 301.

As a U.S. route, isn't DelDOT required to sign an Alternate U.S. 301 for traffic in the corridor that does not want to pay the tolls?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on January 05, 2016, 11:26:16 AM
In this case, AASHTO did not make it a requirement.  There's precedent for that as well:  US 51 on the Northwest Tollway (concurrent with I-39/I-90) north of Rockford, IL.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on January 05, 2016, 04:50:53 PM
Too late, mrsman.  DelDOT received approval from AASHTO in 2011 to sign the toll road as US 301.

As a U.S. route, isn't DelDOT required to sign an Alternate U.S. 301 for traffic in the corridor that does not want to pay the tolls?

If that were the case, how would an Alternate route loop back remeet its parent since US 301 itself would be ending at DE 1? (instead of running up to meet I-95 which IMO would make more sense, but I digress)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: mrsman on January 05, 2016, 05:03:16 PM
I'd hate to be someone who drives this road with an old map.  You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I'd think that the old route would still be signed as a way to Newark, DE/
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 05, 2016, 06:13:41 PM
I'd hate to be someone who drives this road with an old map.  You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I'd think that the old route would still be signed as a way to Newark, DE/
In theory it's numbered Alt 301 (at least to DE 71) but no indication if that will be signed at all. Not that that designation would be all that great a help anyway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mr_Northside on January 06, 2016, 03:34:02 PM
You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I would be a little surprised if there wasn't at least a "Last Exit Before Toll" or "Toll Road Ahead", or some warning that you are committing to paying a toll for not turning/exiting off the road when you have a chance.  But you never know, I suppose.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 06, 2016, 09:54:09 PM
You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I would be a little surprised if there wasn't at least a "Last Exit Before Toll" or "Toll Road Ahead", or some warning that you are committing to paying a toll for not turning/exiting off the road when you have a chance.  But you never know, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure that's a MUTCD requirement.  Delaware's good about signing it on 95 & 1, so I would think they would do it on 301 as well.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on January 07, 2016, 12:23:52 AM
You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I would be a little surprised if there wasn't at least a "Last Exit Before Toll" or "Toll Road Ahead", or some warning that you are committing to paying a toll for not turning/exiting off the road when you have a chance.  But you never know, I suppose.

If I'm reading the plans correctly the last opportunity to exit 301 without paying a toll will be at the intersection with Sassafrass Rd - 2 1/2 miles south of the state line, well outside the bounds of this project, and not DelDOT's responsibility. I wouldn't be surprised if for a while after the completion of the road there was no indication of impending toll heading Northbound.

The shunpike route will be to turn left onto Sassafrass Rd, then turn right onto MD 282 and follow that through to DE 299, which will follow the toll road for a bit before allowing you to turn left onto the former US 301 alignment, which can then be followed into DE 896 to I-95.

Currently this intersection with Sassafrass Rd is a flashing beacon. Will be interesting to see if the completion of the toll road results in an increase in left turning traffic there, thus potentially creating a safety hazard and warrant for signalizing the intersection.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: BrianP on January 07, 2016, 09:27:52 AM
I was thinking the last exit before the toll might be in MD. 

As for the Sassafrass Rd intersection, if it becomes a problem I think the next step would be to do what they've done south of there.  Which is to block off traffic from crossing 301 and making that require the use of J turns.  They would do that before using any signals. 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on January 07, 2016, 10:48:28 AM
You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I would be a little surprised if there wasn't at least a "Last Exit Before Toll" or "Toll Road Ahead", or some warning that you are committing to paying a toll for not turning/exiting off the road when you have a chance.  But you never know, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure that's a MUTCD requirement.  Delaware's good about signing it on 95 & 1, so I would think they would do it on 301 as well.

This was not always the case along Interstate 95 southbound. When the state joined E-ZPass, they replaced the lone toll rate sign (http://www.aaroads.com/delaware/vidcaps/i-095_sb_exit_001b_01.jpg) at SR 896 to only indicate the E-ZPass lanes:

(http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware095/i-095_sb_exit_001_32.jpg)

The only toll sign prior to this overhead was an interchange sequence sign referencing the toll plaza (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware095/i-095_sb_exit_001_26.jpg).

Maryland was equally bad with no mention of the Newark Toll Plaza at MD 279 (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_nb_exit_109a_04.jpg) until the new Clearview signs went up in 2012. Now the signs include (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_nb_exit_109_03.jpg) the needed "Last Exit Before Toll" placards.

Thankfully with both states consistent about it now, they hopefully will be with regard to the new U.S. 301 Toll Road.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: mrsman on January 08, 2016, 04:30:15 PM
You drive on your way to I-95 following US 301 all the way and then you hit this toll booth that you weren't expecting.

I would be a little surprised if there wasn't at least a "Last Exit Before Toll" or "Toll Road Ahead", or some warning that you are committing to paying a toll for not turning/exiting off the road when you have a chance.  But you never know, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure that's a MUTCD requirement.  Delaware's good about signing it on 95 & 1, so I would think they would do it on 301 as well.

This was not always the case along Interstate 95 southbound. When the state joined E-ZPass, they replaced the lone toll rate sign at SR 896 to only indicate the E-ZPass lanes:



The only toll sign prior to this overhead was an interchange sequence sign referencing the toll plaza (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware095/i-095_sb_exit_001_26.jpg).

Maryland was equally bad with no mention of the Newark Toll Plaza at MD 279 (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_nb_exit_109a_04.jpg) until the new Clearview signs went up in 2012. Now the signs include (http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland095/i-095_nb_exit_109_03.jpg) the needed "Last Exit Before Toll" placards.

Thankfully with both states consistent about it now, they hopefully will be with regard to the new U.S. 301 Toll Road.


My concern wasn't so much that there wouldn't be warning of the toll, as in "last exit before toll", it's that the public would not know about the non-toll route that existed before.

If 301 stayed on its old alignment those who don't want to pay a toll could stay where they are and those who are willing to pay a toll to speed up would take the toll road to DE-1.  Now, US 301 is on a toll routing and those who want to stay on the old road ... are they guided in any significant way?

I would encourage the Delaware authorities to sign a non-toll business route along the old routing.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 09:04:45 PM
If 301 stayed on its old alignment those who don't want to pay a toll could stay where they are and those who are willing to pay a toll to speed up would take the toll road to DE-1.  Now, US 301 is on a toll routing and those who want to stay on the old road ... are they guided in any significant way?

I would encourage the Delaware authorities to sign a non-toll business route along the old routing.

See my previous point. The old route would remain viable for local traffic within the project area, and for traffic from the project area to and from points north. For anyone coming from the south, though, the old routing will no longer be passable since the toll road will be built directly on top of a segment of it.

The last opportunity to exit without paying a toll will be 2 1/2 miles before the road enters Delaware, and any remotely direct route back to the old road from that point will involve use of some road that is not currently a state highway.

Delaware could, in theory, sign some sort of toll free business routing which follows DE 299 to the MD state line, but the authorities in Maryland would have to get involved in order to make it a complete routing.

Meanwhile, I see no reason why either state would bother: there will be a shorter and more direct means of accessing the old alignment, by taking the first exit in Delaware. This will, however, involve passing through the mainline toll plaza and thus not be free.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on February 03, 2016, 07:00:32 PM
$89 million in U.S. 301 contracts move forward (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2016/02/03/us-301-contractors-get-green-light-proceed/79772094/)

Quote
Construction on most of the mainline route for the new U.S. 301 tollway near Middletown can begin by the end of the month, the Delaware Department of Transportation announced Wednesday.

DelDOT gave a notice to proceed to two companies to begin work on their $88.7 million segments of the expressway, which will stretch from the Maryland state line to Del. 1 just south of the C&D Canal and loop around Middletown.

A notice was given for the initial two segments of the project in December. Only a spur road veering off of the new expressway and interchange connections to Del. 1 and U.S. 13 have yet to be given the green light to move forward.

Quote
The existing U.S. 301 through Middletown will be converted into a local roadway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Henry on February 04, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
And so it begins... :)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 04, 2016, 06:08:05 PM
And once it is completed, hopefully the toll road will be a success. Hopefully.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: noelbotevera on February 04, 2016, 06:08:43 PM
Clever, Delaware. You've actually got the shunpikers out of your state. Now you've forced them to use the Conowingo Dam on US 1 in MD... :clap:





extra points if i confused you, which was the point.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 04, 2016, 08:24:01 PM
Clever, Delaware. You've actually got the shunpikers out of your state. Now you've forced them to use the Conowingo Dam on US 1 in MD... :clap:

Not exactly.  Look on a map sometime.  I call your attention to Md. 213. 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: noelbotevera on February 04, 2016, 08:27:25 PM
Clever, Delaware. You've actually got the shunpikers out of your state. Now you've forced them to use the Conowingo Dam on US 1 in MD... :clap:

Not exactly.  Look on a map sometime.  I call your attention to Md. 213.
Congrats, I confused myself. Extra points to me.

Overlooked that bridge, I don't have a map on hand....
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on June 24, 2016, 05:10:54 AM
Clever, Delaware. You've actually got the shunpikers out of your state. Now you've forced them to use the Conowingo Dam on US 1 in MD... :clap:





extra points if i confused you, which was the point.
  Not really, as a present day toll collector in Florida people will still drive a toll road not only if they have no money, but especially if they know its a toll road and do not believe in supporting them. I have a lot of people pull up in the toll booth asking me "What if a person does not have money, how does one get to use this road" or the best one is "We as tourists do not know you roads, yet you expect us to pay a toll!"

In fact its that mentality that is probably why DelDOT is doing this as they are.  They really on the average ignorant motorists lack of awareness, to support this as they will always get their toll especially if the motorist at the time has no form of payment.  Even if its all AET, not all subscribe to EZPass so then they still get their money later with a little extra from processing fees.  Believe me all do not subscribe like we have many daily commuters here in my state who refuse to get SunPass even if they spend more money each day waiting in a long line behind motorists who have to dig in their pockets deep to find every dime, nickel, quarter, or even penny to give the collector.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 74/171FAN on June 24, 2016, 06:40:33 AM
Clever, Delaware. You've actually got the shunpikers out of your state. Now you've forced them to use the Conowingo Dam on US 1 in MD... :clap:





extra points if i confused you, which was the point.
  Not really, as a present day toll collector in Florida people will still drive a toll road not only if they have no money, but especially if they know its a toll road and do not believe in supporting them. I have a lot of people pull up in the toll booth asking me "What if a person does not have money, how does one get to use this road" or the best one is "We as tourists do not know you roads, yet you expect us to pay a toll!"

In fact its that mentality that is probably why DelDOT is doing this as they are.  They really on the average ignorant motorists lack of awareness, to support this as they will always get their toll especially if the motorist at the time has no form of payment.  Even if its all AET, not all subscribe to EZPass so then they still get their money later with a little extra from processing fees.  Believe me all do not subscribe like we have many daily commuters here in my state who refuse to get SunPass even if they spend more money each day waiting in a long line behind motorists who have to dig in their pockets deep to find every dime, nickel, quarter, or even penny to give the collector.

I feel like you just explained the reason why Chesapeake tripled the tolls on VA 168 on peak travel weekends.  (despite the fact that they know some people clog up Battlefield Blvd anyway)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on June 24, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
The state and the rental car companies both make out here in Florida on typical signs of the times ignorance.  Even with the Climate Change politicians they like having more clog up conditions if it means more money, however the AET may be a solution for them.

Without toll booths its even more easier to get money from motorists as many already ignore the TOLL warnings at freeway toll road entrances and of course the LAST EXIT BEFORE TOLL is just as seen as the EXIT ONLY signs are as well.  Getting people to pay the toll post time is the best way to get people to pay the toll and in high tourist areas the rental cars companies as well with their daily use fee of the transponder and the service fee per toll they charge on toll violaters.

Delaware is not dumb, as they have the quarter a mile I-95 there for a reason.  Most motorists feel that its the only road through Delaware and drive it, so why not charge more do to demand.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2016, 05:50:08 PM
Does anyone know if the US 301 toll road's exit numbers will be sequential or mileage-based?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on June 27, 2016, 06:23:37 PM
Does anyone know if the US 301 toll road's exit numbers will be sequential or mileage-based?
Given that this will be a brand new highway; I would believe that mileage-based interchange numbers will be used.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 27, 2016, 07:34:58 PM
Does anyone know if the US 301 toll road's exit numbers will be sequential or mileage-based?
Given that this will be a brand new highway; I would believe that mileage-based interchange numbers will be used.

Which amazingly will be Delaware's first highway to actually use mileage-based exit numbers.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: elsmere241 on June 27, 2016, 09:13:18 PM
Which amazingly will be Delaware's first highway to actually use mileage-based exit numbers.

When first built, the part of DE 1 from Red Lion to Christiana had mileage-based exit numbers.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: epzik8 on July 29, 2016, 05:23:54 PM
I'm glad the Middletown Bypass hasn't come to fruition in the years since its initial proposal, and I'm praying it stays that way.

I've been through Middletown on U.S. 301 in either direction in July. It may be a crowded area but I just don't like the idea of another freeway anywhere along the Delmarva - not that there are very many there to begin with, but that's exactly why I'm against the Middletown Bypass. It has nothing to do with tolls.

I'm actually up in Harford County, Maryland in between Baltimore and Wilmington. My northbound trip through Middletown this month actually started with me cutting up through Lancaster County, PA; I took PA-372 to PA-472 at Quarryville, took that through Oxford and to the MD state line at Lewisville. Hooked up with MD-213 there, went down through Elkton, Chesapeake City, Cecilton and cut off onto MD-290 at Galena, took that to 301. Went through that little corner of Cecil County before entering Delaware and reaching Middletown. Lots of lights but nothing drastic. Got to I-95 quickly and took that back into Maryland and then I was suddenly back in HarCo.

My southbound trip through Middletown just last week went like this: U.S. 1 across the Conowingo Dam to Rising Sun, then 273 to 274 to 272 to I-95. Got to Delaware, paid the toll, exited back onto DE-273 and then I actually took Old Baltimore Pike to DE-71 to U.S. 40 to Glasgow where U.S. 301 starts. Stopped at the Wawa in Middletown but if I hadn't done that I think I was on pace to get through the Middletown hub faster than my northbound trip. So then I entered Maryland again, took 301 south all the way to MD-305 which I took to Centreville because I had selected that as my turn-around point. Hooked up with MD-213 out of Centreville and all the way up the Upper Shore and to MD-279 at Elkton where I rejoined I-95.

I'm just skeptical. It's not the toll part I'm against, it's the freeway part. On the contrary, I believe the Delaware Route 1 expressway is very necessary. But I just don't know if the Middletown toll road is.

Can I also add that U.S. 301 between the DE state line and the U.S. 50 merge is an amazing highway. Much better than the Kent Island-Bay Bridge-Annapolis-Bowie section and the Southern Maryland portion.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on July 29, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
I think some connection is necessary. I could believe that a simple two-lane expressway (i.e. no driveways, limited crossings) would work.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jwolfer on July 29, 2016, 06:58:22 PM
I'm glad the Middletown Bypass hasn't come to fruition in the years since its initial proposal, and I'm praying it stays that way.

I've been through Middletown on U.S. 301 in either direction in July. It may be a crowded area but I just don't like the idea of another freeway anywhere along the Delmarva - not that there are very many there to begin with, but that's exactly why I'm against the Middletown Bypass. It has nothing to do with tolls.

I'm actually up in Harford County, Maryland in between Baltimore and Wilmington. My northbound trip through Middletown this month actually started with me cutting up through Lancaster County, PA; I took PA-372 to PA-472 at Quarryville, took that through Oxford and to the MD state line at Lewisville. Hooked up with MD-213 there, went down through Elkton, Chesapeake City, Cecilton and cut off onto MD-290 at Galena, took that to 301. Went through that little corner of Cecil County before entering Delaware and reaching Middletown. Lots of lights but nothing drastic. Got to I-95 quickly and took that back into Maryland and then I was suddenly back in HarCo.

My southbound trip through Middletown just last week went like this: U.S. 1 across the Conowingo Dam to Rising Sun, then 273 to 274 to 272 to I-95. Got to Delaware, paid the toll, exited back onto DE-273 and then I actually took Old Baltimore Pike to DE-71 to U.S. 40 to Glasgow where U.S. 301 starts. Stopped at the Wawa in Middletown but if I hadn't done that I think I was on pace to get through the Middletown hub faster than my northbound trip. So then I entered Maryland again, took 301 south all the way to MD-305 which I took to Centreville because I had selected that as my turn-around point. Hooked up with MD-213 out of Centreville and all the way up the Upper Shore and to MD-279 at Elkton where I rejoined I-95.

I'm just skeptical. It's not the toll part I'm against, it's the freeway part. On the contrary, I believe the Delaware Route 1 expressway is very necessary. But I just don't know if the Middletown toll road is.

Can I also add that U.S. 301 between the DE state line and the U.S. 50 merge is an amazing highway. Much better than the Kent Island-Bay Bridge-Annapolis-Bowie section and the Southern Maryland portion.
301 in Delaware has needed to be 4 lanes for years to match up to Maryland.  It's a viable alternative to i95
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ChezeHed81 on August 12, 2016, 01:15:52 PM
The striping on Route 1 NB was redone through the Biddles Corner Toll Plaza providing (2) continuous E-ZPass Express lanes.  Formerly, the E-ZPass lanes merged leaving the plaza and the cash customers had (2) full lanes.  While this appears to be part of the US-301 interchange construction, it should have been done long ago.

Some good things can come from construction or other projects, like when the I-495 bridge over the Christina River was tilting, DelDOT restriped I-95 SB between the I-295 split and I-495 merge which provided (3) continuous lanes for I-95 SB through that area.  After the I-495 bridge reopened, this change was retained, and traffic on I-95 is much improved during rush hour.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: SteveG1988 on November 04, 2016, 04:38:46 AM
Went through there yesterday. Grading is underway, as is preliminary overpass construction. Had no chance to stop and take photos, was in the truck and trying to make good time getting down to the beltway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: epzik8 on November 29, 2016, 11:35:47 AM
Is it confirmed that U.S. 301 will be shifted onto the toll road?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on November 29, 2016, 12:07:43 PM
Yes.  DelDOT asked for AASHTO approval some years ago and received it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on November 29, 2016, 01:33:59 PM
Yes.  DelDOT asked for AASHTO approval some years ago and received it.

In theory, with a U.S. route, isn't an Alternate toll-free route number supposed to be signed?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 03:32:59 PM
Yes.  DelDOT asked for AASHTO approval some years ago and received it.

In theory, with a U.S. route, isn't an Alternate toll-free route number supposed to be signed?
If that's the case; signing the old road as Business US 301 would be the logical choice.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: BrianP on November 29, 2016, 04:25:39 PM
Yes.  DelDOT asked for AASHTO approval some years ago and received it.

In theory, with a U.S. route, isn't an Alternate toll-free route number supposed to be signed?
If that's the case; signing the old road as Business US 301 would be the logical choice.
The problem with that is that the toll road and the old route do not go to the same place.  The old route goes to Middletown then goes north to US 40.  The new toll route goes northeast from Middletown to DE 1.  There is no free direct route that does that.  You could follow the old route to DE 896 then follow DE 896 east to US 13 for a free alternate route to be called Business 301.  The old route to US 40 should be signed something.  But what should it be signed?  Maybe it should be signed as US 301 Spur?  I'm guessing that part of the route will just be downgraded to be just DE 896/71.

Then if they ever do build the actual separate spur road they can move 301 Spur to that route. 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 29, 2016, 06:31:55 PM
I would make existing 301 a local road once the 301 toll road is completed, except for the portions where it is presently co-designated with other highways. Would such a proposal be impractical?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on November 29, 2016, 07:00:24 PM
The problem with that is that the toll road and the old route do not go to the same place.  The old route goes to Middletown then goes north to US 40.  The new toll route goes northeast from Middletown to DE 1.  There is no free direct route that does that.  You could follow the old route to DE 896 then follow DE 896 east to US 13 for a free alternate route to be called Business 301.  The old route to US 40 should be signed something.  But what should it be signed?  Maybe it should be signed as US 301 Spur?  I'm guessing that part of the route will just be downgraded to be just DE 896/71.

Then if they ever do build the actual separate spur road they can move 301 Spur to that route.

Missouri uses Spur U.S. routes, perhaps Delaware could introduce the concept for U.S. 301? There was once also DE 141 Spur, though it was only signed on green street blades.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on November 29, 2016, 08:02:58 PM
Missouri uses Spur U.S. routes, perhaps Delaware could introduce the concept for U.S. 301? There was once also DE 141 Spur, though it was only signed on green street blades.

Where was DE 141 Spur?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Route_141 doesn't make any mention of it that I can find.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:44:14 PM
Would extending 301 up DE 1 work here? Then drop it off with 13 and they can come meet US 40 together - then the existing 301 would be a 301 ALT (DE used to have that I believe), as both 301s would end at 40. (Or you could restore 301 [proposed ALT] along 40 so they end at the same point.)

(Fictional OT - or you could extend 301 beyond that point and take over US 130... going away now)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on November 29, 2016, 11:47:25 PM
Would extending 301 up DE 1 work here? Then drop it off with 13 and they can come meet US 40 together - then the existing 301 would be a 301 ALT (DE used to have that I believe), as both 301s would end at 40. (Or you could restore 301 [proposed ALT] along 40 so they end at the same point.)

(Fictional OT - or you could extend 301 beyond that point and take over US 130... going away now)

It was signed as US 301 Truck and was prominently posted at the US 13/40 split previously. I can easily see your proposal implemented by DelDOT.

Missouri uses Spur U.S. routes, perhaps Delaware could introduce the concept for U.S. 301? There was once also DE 141 Spur, though it was only signed on green street blades.

Where was DE 141 Spur?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Route_141 doesn't make any mention of it that I can find.

ixnay

Wiki ain't everything. ;) DE 141 Spur was the formal name given to the new alignment of DE 141 turning the route southeast from Powder Mill Road to US 202 as part of the Blue Ball Projects. It was eventually shielded as the DE 141 mainline with Powder Mill Road denumbered. I may have a photo of a SR 141 street blade in my archives.

(http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maps/blue_ball_map.gif)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on November 29, 2016, 11:59:29 PM
If we're talking renumberings, wouldn't it make more sense to route DE 896 down Summit Bridge Road, then following the current US 301 alignment until it hits DE 299 / 15 / Levels Road?  That way you have the entire "Business US 301" corridor and the corridor connecting it to Glasgow and Newark signed with one consistent number.  Trying to sign a free alternative bannered US 301 route would be a little difficult when trying to tie the southern end back into the mainline as the Levels Road interchange is north of the proposed mainline tollbooth.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on November 30, 2016, 06:57:24 AM
Alex from Tampa, your mention of DE 141 Spur left me with the impression that it was signed in the '70s or maybe '60s, down in the Prices Corner area.

BTW where did you get that map?  It appears to be linked when I mouse over it but I can't get the link to work.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on November 30, 2016, 07:07:18 AM
DE 141 Spur on street blades are in 2012 GMSV: https://goo.gl/maps/osNA53PxK9S2
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on November 30, 2016, 07:47:32 AM
Quote from: ixnay
BTW where did you get that map?  It appears to be linked when I mouse over it but I can't get the link to work.

It's a map Alex made himself.  I recognize his cartography...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on November 30, 2016, 08:54:51 AM
Alex from Tampa, your mention of DE 141 Spur left me with the impression that it was signed in the '70s or maybe '60s, down in the Prices Corner area.

BTW where did you get that map?  It appears to be linked when I mouse over it but I can't get the link to work.

ixnay

I grew up in Newark/Wilmington and return to visit family every so often, so I keep up with Delaware roads.
Made that map in 2007 when I was learning how to use Adobe Illustrator. It is out of date given the ramps at I-95 and US 202 changed. You can find a larger version  on our Blue Ball feature page (http://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=blueballde). The spur route replaced a portion of old and narrow Rockland Road, which previously tied into US 202 directly.

Will be driving up to Delaware in a few weeks and plan on checking out progress on the US 301 toll road. If anyone missed it, Lou posted some photos of it on the NERoads Facebook group last week.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on November 30, 2016, 09:28:26 PM
Back on the PC now, here is the link for Lou's US 301 photos from last week:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100369917406337&set=pcb.1208609689227149&type=3&theater
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jwolfer on December 02, 2016, 11:06:35 PM
Would extending 301 up DE 1 work here? Then drop it off with 13 and they can come meet US 40 together - then the existing 301 would be a 301 ALT (DE used to have that I believe), as both 301s would end at 40. (Or you could restore 301 [proposed ALT] along 40 so they end at the same point.)

(Fictional OT - or you could extend 301 beyond that point and take over US 130... going away now)
Yay on the fiction eliminate 130 replace with 301...

I was always disappointed how 301 in Maryland just sort of faded to a variable web of 2 lane optional pseudo alignments once you crossed into Delaware

LGMS428
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex on December 23, 2016, 09:37:31 AM
Alex4897, Ian and I checked out progress of construction for new US 301 earlier this week. I posted 15 photos to the AARoads FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/aaroads/posts/10154927083657948
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 02 Park Ave on August 16, 2017, 09:33:22 PM
Does anyone have any reports on how this project has progressed since Alex posted his photographs?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on August 16, 2017, 10:15:49 PM
Made the effort to look at Google satelite view the other day, do not know how recent it was, but it was pretty detailed.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on August 16, 2017, 11:05:51 PM
Made the effort to look at Google satelite view the other day, do not know how recent it was, but it was pretty detailed.

Google Earth pegs the imagery date at around the beginning of April IIRC.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mergingtraffic on November 30, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
What's the completion date?  I can't find it on their site.

Did today's earthquake affect construction at all?

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Interstate 69 Fan on December 18, 2017, 01:54:11 PM
What's the completion date?  I can't find it on their site.

Did today's earthquake affect construction at all?

2018, and no.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on December 18, 2017, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneKEA
This project is definitely going to make a big difference in the usage of US 301 as a bypass of I-95.

Until those using it as such hit the hell that is the Bay Bridge, especially on summer weekends...

Last summer I used US-301 North on a Sunday morning as an I-95 bypass. The Bay Bridge and 50/301 freeway was busy, but moving without a problem.

You weren't heading west.  Or after about 10am.

Once completed, I would expect this to lengthen the delay times at the Bay Bridge.

There's no logical reason for a backup heading west. The bridge is three lanes westbound, the same as the freeway prior to it, and you don't have to stop to pay toll going west.

The real headache for people using US 301 as an alternative to I-95, if you ask me, is the mess through Waldorf and La Plata.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 18, 2017, 08:06:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins
There's no logical reason for a backup heading west. The bridge is three lanes westbound, the same as the freeway prior to it, and you don't have to stop to pay toll going west.

Even with 3 lanes and no toll, it will still bottleneck for the returning-home-from-summer-weekend traffic.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mr_Northside on December 19, 2017, 05:50:06 PM
Though sometimes during the summer, it has a contraflow lane (so only 2 WB)
Even when it's not peak vacation times, it's 3 lanes with NO shoulders to speak of, and it can be a very intimidating bridge for some people (and there is a low speed limit), so if there is a decent amount of traffic, it could still backup a little.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: yakra on December 21, 2017, 03:12:56 PM
I wonder whether the spur road will become new DE15, with the old route becoming either DE15 or such, or unnumbered roads.

Speaking of the spur road, the interchange (https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pdfs/Section_4A_Roll_Maps_9-6-2011_2.pdf) they have planned for its north end leaves me scratching my head. It's over-built and under-functional.
• At the south end, the directional split has a yecchy left entrance. I'd expect that the spur hwy would carry more traffic here.
• At the north end, the main thru movements are for 71/896 (and existing 301). Again, I'd expect this to be the other way around.
• Local road accessibility: Right now, traffic can move between DE15 to the west and 301/71/896 to the east. The planned interchange cuts this connection off, needlessly IMO. If someone coming from the DE286 corridor wants to access the Summit Bridge or Airmont Acres communities, ...yeah. Have fun. Why not just...
  - Connect the spur road directly into 301/71/896 to the north. A thru freeway.
  - Connect DE15 directly into 301/71/896 to the east. A thru local road.
  - Parclo interchange, with roundabouts at ramp termini.
  - Tie the northeast segment of Bethel Church Rd into the eastern roundabout, thereby retaining, and improving, a connection that can now only be made in one direction (Bethel Church SW -> 301&c N).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 22, 2018, 09:02:36 PM
According to DelDOT, one of the sections is nearing completion, ahead of schedule.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=6948
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 23, 2018, 10:05:47 AM
According to DelDOT, one of the sections is nearing completion, ahead of schedule.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=6948
What's not mentioned in the above-link is once Section 1C (there should've been a description of what/where this section covers) is completed, will it be actually opened to traffic or will DelDOT wait for some or all of the remaining segments to be completed.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on January 23, 2018, 10:41:26 AM
According to DelDOT, one of the sections is nearing completion, ahead of schedule.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=6948
What's not mentioned in the above-link is once Section 1C (there should've been a description of what/where this section covers) is completed, will it be actually opened to traffic or will DelDOT wait for some or all of the remaining segments to be completed.

Section 1C only spans the gap between the Norfolk Southern Railroad overpass and the DE 896 / Boyds Corner Road overpass, so I think it's a safe bet that this section will remain unopened until the adjacent sections and their interchanges are complete.

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/rmUH_qpDSPOq1s8wquKe0A.png)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mergingtraffic on April 10, 2018, 05:46:15 PM
According to DelDOT, one of the sections is nearing completion, ahead of schedule.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=6948

Will they open the road in sections as they're completed or wait and open it all at once?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on April 11, 2018, 07:34:17 AM
Given the interchange locations, there's no midpoint that would offer more good than harm for a sectional opening.  I expect them to wait until it's all finished.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on April 28, 2018, 01:39:11 PM
Is the spur to the Summit Bridge being built now or later?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on September 04, 2018, 08:11:23 PM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website

https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on September 04, 2018, 11:41:42 PM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301

$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Rothman on September 04, 2018, 11:54:15 PM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301

$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.
No kidding.

Pay your gas taxes AND tolls.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on September 05, 2018, 12:23:07 AM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301
$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.
No kidding.  Pay your gas taxes AND tolls.

17 miles of 4-lane freeway and no major bridges.  24 cents per mile is very high.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: oscar on September 05, 2018, 06:26:40 AM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301

$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.

Same as on the shorter tolled segment of I-95.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on September 05, 2018, 07:12:20 AM
Also the toll for anything other than crossing the state line appears to be $1 or less for EZ-pass.  The $4 toll is aimed at out-of-staters who are avoiding their I-95 toll booth...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on September 05, 2018, 08:06:17 AM
Also the toll for anything other than crossing the state line appears to be $1 or less for EZ-pass.  The $4 toll is aimed at out-of-staters who are avoiding their I-95 toll booth...

What about someone following the US-301 corridor from the Maryland Eastern Shore into Delaware to Wilmington and north?  They would not be avoiding the I-95 toll booth per se.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Rothman on September 05, 2018, 08:08:21 AM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301

$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.

Same as on the shorter tolled segment of I-95.
That is a one-way toll on a bridge over the Susquehanna, isn't it?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on September 05, 2018, 08:57:19 AM
Also the toll for anything other than crossing the state line appears to be $1 or less for EZ-pass.  The $4 toll is aimed at out-of-staters who are avoiding their I-95 toll booth...

People using the new 301 aren't trying to avoid the I-95's toll plaza, as most people wouldn't have previously paid the toll then taken MD 213 south to get to this general area. 

But, will they exit/enter at Levels Rd to save $3 each direction?  Probably.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on September 05, 2018, 09:09:59 AM
Not sure if anyone else picked this up but the US 301 toll calculator is now up on DelDOT's website
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301

$4.00 for a car using EZPass… wow.

Same as on the shorter tolled segment of I-95.
That is a one-way toll on a bridge over the Susquehanna, isn't it?
No, Oscar's referring to the two-way toll plaza in Delaware just north of the Maryland State line.  Such is very easy to shunpike using the DE 896 & MD 279 interchanges (via either DE 896 or US 40). 

The one-way (northbound) toll at the Susquehanna crossing in Perryville/Havre de Grace, MD is $8 ($6 for MD-issued E-ZPass accounts).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on September 06, 2018, 06:41:58 AM
Also the toll for anything other than crossing the state line appears to be $1 or less for EZ-pass.  The $4 toll is aimed at out-of-staters who are avoiding their I-95 toll booth...

People using the new 301 aren't trying to avoid the I-95's toll plaza, as most people wouldn't have previously paid the toll then taken MD 213 south to get to this general area. 

But, will they exit/enter at Levels Rd to save $3 each direction?  Probably.

Galena and Cecilton, MD (and their lone stoplights) should get ready to see plenty of shunpikers as they take MD 313 north, MD 213 north, and MD 282 east/DE 299 north to get around the first EZPass arch.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on September 06, 2018, 01:17:42 PM
That road from MD 299 at US 301 to MD 282 looks shorter.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on September 06, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
Not to mention that once in DE there is no way to leave US 301. You have to do it at the last at grade in MD, unless they added a ramp to current US 301 after the border.

Delaware and their high tolls can go where the sun don't shine, but given all the stupid people who used to end up at my toll booth in Florida for lack of obeying the signs they were taught to follow in Drivers Ed, will be ending up paying for this (and even more so if the idiots who travel cash-less and think the debit card is universal ignorantly listen to the GPS that puts them there end up here)  showing the government here its a gold mine for them.  Also these careless everyday drivers are even showing how collecting tolls can basically be like taking candy away from a baby including the semi drivers who showed up at my booth without money especially.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on September 06, 2018, 04:25:32 PM
That road from MD 299 at US 301 to MD 282 looks shorter.
Old 301. (Or depending on your timeline, the old MD 299 to connect to DE 299.)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on September 06, 2018, 05:28:16 PM
That road from MD 299 at US 301 to MD 282 looks shorter.

Yes.  Coming from Sassafras and Massey, MD 299 ends at 301 but continues towards Warwick as a county road (Sassafras Road), which Cecil County will have to fix eventually if it gets too beaten by shunpikers (weight limits much?).  Will the average through motorist have Sassafras Road on his/her mental radar without the aid of Google Maps/MapQuest/etc.?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on September 06, 2018, 09:14:32 PM
Would the average through motorist have any shupike route on their mental radar without the use of Google Maps, Waze, etc.?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on September 09, 2018, 03:03:06 PM
Not surprised with the tolls.  I read that I-95 tolls bring in more to the DOT than the gas tax.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: TheOneKEA on September 10, 2018, 01:05:44 PM
Will MDSHA or DelDOT be responsible for installing BGSes that advertise the toll plaza beyond the state line? MD used to not advertise the tolls on I-95 past Exit 109, but they do now - will they insist on doing the same here?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on September 10, 2018, 01:09:18 PM
Would the average through motorist have any shupike route on their mental radar without the use of Google Maps, Waze, etc.?

Nope.  The average motorist without EZ Pass will be surprised to get a bill 3 weeks later asking them to pay up though!

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on October 16, 2018, 11:21:55 PM
I asked about the designation of the proposed spur route and was told that it won't be US 301 Spur. It won't have any designation of its own. They said it will likely be signed "To DE 896 – Newark" and "To US 301 Toll South – Middletown, Annapolis," though signage won't be finalized until they actually start on it.

Also, I notice from the newest satellite imagery and flyover videos that unlike most of DE 1, the new US 301 is being built with concrete shoulders on the mainline and ramps.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 11:31:31 PM
I asked about the designation of the proposed spur route and was told that it won't be US 301 Spur. It won't have any designation of its own. They said it will likely be signed "To DE 896 – Newark" and "To US 301 Toll South – Middletown, Annapolis," though signage won't be finalized until they actually start on it.

Also, I notice from the newest satellite imagery and flyover videos that unlike most of DE 1, the new US 301 is being built with concrete shoulders on the mainline and ramps.
I guess that good ol’concrete plant down the road made it easier for them to do that. & How the spur road is being built now?


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on November 17, 2018, 07:55:31 PM
December opening cited:
http://www.wboc.com/story/39497782/new-toll-road-to-open-on-us-route-301-at-delaware-state-line
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on November 17, 2018, 09:08:45 PM
December opening cited:
http://www.wboc.com/story/39497782/new-toll-road-to-open-on-us-route-301-at-delaware-state-line

Road trip!  That is about an hour from where my dad lives.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on November 18, 2018, 07:50:10 AM
December opening cited:
http://www.wboc.com/story/39497782/new-toll-road-to-open-on-us-route-301-at-delaware-state-line

I wonder if they'll specify an actual date, or have elsewhere. Last I saw, it was planned to open New Year's Day.

Either way, I'll be able to check it out when I'm home from college for Christmas break and post some pictures and/or video.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 19, 2018, 01:09:51 PM
December opening cited:
http://www.wboc.com/story/39497782/new-toll-road-to-open-on-us-route-301-at-delaware-state-line

I wonder if they'll specify an actual date, or have elsewhere. Last I saw, it was planned to open New Year's Day.

Either way, I'll be able to check it out when I'm home from college for Christmas break and post some pictures and/or video.

I'd seriously doubt they'll open a route on a holiday when most state officials are off.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on November 20, 2018, 07:56:30 AM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Henry on November 20, 2018, 10:39:06 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually this gets extended across the border and on to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, at least.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on November 20, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
I'm presuming there will be "Last Exit Before Toll" signs somewhere? If so, where?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on November 20, 2018, 11:19:33 AM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/

Interesting that they're not signing "To DE 15" at Exit 2.

This also essentially confirms no new designation for the original 301, at least not for the southern half, which is the only place you'd really need it.

Also good to see that the project arrived at just the right time to avoid Clearview. Has DelDOT resumed using it?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: seicer on November 20, 2018, 11:32:38 AM
How does a highway of that length cost over a half billion dollars?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on November 20, 2018, 12:33:46 PM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/

Interesting that they're not signing "To DE 15" at Exit 2.

This also essentially confirms no new designation for the original 301, at least not for the southern half, which is the only place you'd really need it.
I spoke to the project manager about it and was told that the roads that US-301 is presently using are going to just have the US-301 designation removed, with their existing DE- designations (if any) remaining.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on November 20, 2018, 02:03:16 PM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/

Interesting that they're not signing "To DE 15" at Exit 2.

This also essentially confirms no new designation for the original 301, at least not for the southern half, which is the only place you'd really need it.
I spoke to the project manager about it and was told that the roads that US-301 is presently using are going to just have the US-301 designation removed, with their existing DE- designations (if any) remaining.
71, 896, and 299 cover most of it. I'd have liked to see something connect 71 to 299 at that gap. Maybe something like 171 or 99.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on November 20, 2018, 02:19:38 PM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/

Interesting that they're not signing "To DE 15" at Exit 2.

This also essentially confirms no new designation for the original 301, at least not for the southern half, which is the only place you'd really need it.
I spoke to the project manager about it and was told that the roads that US-301 is presently using are going to just have the US-301 designation removed, with their existing DE- designations (if any) remaining.
71, 896, and 299 cover most of it. I'd have liked to see something connect 71 to 299 at that gap. Maybe something like 171 or 99.
If what's shown on Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Delaware/@39.4538532,-75.7299514,15.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c705764d0cd63b:0x941d2d128c04e878!8m2!3d38.9108325!4d-75.5276699) is correct; that route gap is less than a mile.  One option would be to reroute DE 71 north of DE 299 onto DE 299 westbound (for a short concurrency) towards the soon-to-be-former US 301 and have it run northward.  N. Broad St. (current DE 71) in that area could become DE 71A.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 20, 2018, 03:01:02 PM
How does a highway of that length cost over a half billion dollars?

$42 million per mile.  Basically the going rate in this region.  And this was built in relatively rural/suburban areas.

When we had a discussion in NJ about Route 55 being completed, some people were coming in with very low estimates of what they would think it would cost to finish it.  And this $42 million would probably be low even for that project.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on November 20, 2018, 05:18:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually this gets extended across the border and on to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, at least.

It's being promoted across the border at at least one location - via billboards at U.S. 301 and MD 300 (both north of the intersection and south of the J turn that folks heading east on 300 must negotiate to get from Church Hill to Sudlersville).  I spotted these billboards about 9 days ago - I forget the wording, sorry, but those billboards were there.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Jim on November 20, 2018, 05:36:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually this gets extended across the border and on to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, at least.

I believe that the last time I took US 301 through that part of Maryland, within the last several months, there were no lights between the Bay Bridge and the Delaware line.  Definitely plenty of at-grade crossings, though, that it seems might become more dangerous when the new Delaware segment opens and encourages more traffic along that route.

If Maryland is going to do something to improve the 301 corridor, I'd much rather see something to improve the situation between US 50 in Bowie and the Nice Bridge.  La Plata and Waldorf are infuriating.  The Virginia side from the bridge to Bowling Green is still not too bad (but it does seem there's another new light every time I go that way).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on November 20, 2018, 11:00:12 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually this gets extended across the border and on to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, at least.

I believe that the last time I took US 301 through that part of Maryland, within the last several months, there were no lights between the Bay Bridge and the Delaware line.  Definitely plenty of at-grade crossings, though, that it seems might become more dangerous when the new Delaware segment opens and encourages more traffic along that route.

If Maryland is going to do something to improve the 301 corridor, I'd much rather see something to improve the situation between US 50 in Bowie and the Nice Bridge.  La Plata and Waldorf are infuriating.  The Virginia side from the bridge to Bowling Green is still not too bad (but it does seem there's another new light every time I go that way).
Looks like the superstreet project killed all of those.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on November 20, 2018, 11:11:05 PM
What will this do to the already heavy traffic De 1


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on November 21, 2018, 01:17:31 PM
What will this do to the already heavy traffic De 1

You might want to look at the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS), which usually have some sort of travel demand estimates included for future years.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cpzilliacus on November 21, 2018, 01:19:41 PM
71, 896, and 299 cover most of it. I'd have liked to see something connect 71 to 299 at that gap. Maybe something like 171 or 99.

Alt U.S. 301 would be nice.

I thought there was a requirement for tolled U.S. routes (not including toll crossings) to have a bannered Alternate route signed?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on November 21, 2018, 04:24:03 PM
Looks like there's a sneak preview of signage on the new expressway: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/20/toll-plate-option-new-commuters-u-s-301-mainline/1945217002/

Interesting that they're not signing "To DE 15" at Exit 2.

This also essentially confirms no new designation for the original 301, at least not for the southern half, which is the only place you'd really need it.
I spoke to the project manager about it and was told that the roads that US-301 is presently using are going to just have the US-301 designation removed, with their existing DE- designations (if any) remaining.
71, 896, and 299 cover most of it. I'd have liked to see something connect 71 to 299 at that gap. Maybe something like 171 or 99.
If what's shown on Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Delaware/@39.4538532,-75.7299514,15.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c705764d0cd63b:0x941d2d128c04e878!8m2!3d38.9108325!4d-75.5276699) is correct; that route gap is less than a mile.  One option would be to reroute DE 71 north of DE 299 onto DE 299 westbound (for a short concurrency) towards the soon-to-be-former US 301 and have it run northward.  N. Broad St. (current DE 71) in that area could become DE 71A.

In the spirit of retaining a single designation along the entire corridor, I feel it'd make more sense to run DE 896 the whole way down old US 301 to end at the new Levels Road interchange. Then you could replace the designation on Boyds Corner Road with whatever your heart desires (maybe an extended MD 310?)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on November 21, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
What will this do to the already heavy traffic De 1

The merge point is where DE-1 begins six lanes (3 each way), should fit well. 

Also some traffic to US-301 to the Newark area.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on November 21, 2018, 04:55:16 PM
What will this do to the already heavy traffic De 1

The merge point is where DE-1 begins six lanes (3 each way), should fit well. 

Also some traffic to US-301 to the Newark area.
I assume that will work. It’s just that, during rush hour DE-1 Past middletown looks like 95.
I wonder when (if) they have already put De 1 widening on the schedule.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on November 21, 2018, 08:50:14 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually this gets extended across the border and on to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, at least.

I believe that the last time I took US 301 through that part of Maryland, within the last several months, there were no lights between the Bay Bridge and the Delaware line.  Definitely plenty of at-grade crossings, though, that it seems might become more dangerous when the new Delaware segment opens and encourages more traffic along that route.
I've been worried about that personally.  I consider that stretch of US-301 on the Eastern Shore to be my favorite highway on Delmarva because it has those crossovers but they don't feel nearly as dangerous as the ones surrounded by lots of development.  It feels like the perfect balance of no stoplights but allowing cross traffic.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on November 22, 2018, 07:59:59 AM
I don't think you're going to have enough of an increase of US 301 traffic in Maryland to make a difference.  Most of 301 between Centreville and the Delaware line has daily volumes of 12K or less.  It could easily handle double that and still be fine, especially if SHA continues to put J-turns in.

Quote
I thought there was a requirement for tolled U.S. routes (not including toll crossings) to have a bannered Alternate route signed?

Not specifically a bannered Alternate route.  AASHTO policy states that the tolled route should have the "Toll" banner above it and "a toll-free routing between the same termini shall continue to be retained and marked as a part of the U.S. Numbered System."  It could be a bannered Alt route, but could also be another route.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on November 22, 2018, 08:29:13 AM
I'm presuming there will be "Last Exit Before Toll" signs somewhere? If so, where?

I am rather curious to see how this ends up. The last "exit" available before toll will be the at-grade intersection at MD 299/Sassafrass Rd. The logical shunpike route for northbound traffic will involve making a left turn at this intersection, currently a low-volume movement controlled only by a yield sign for left-turning traffic and a flashing yellow light for southbound US 301.

I suspect Maryland will end up needing to make some modifications to this intersection in order to deal with the shunpikers. This would logically entail either converting it to an actual signal, or banning turns for northbound traffic in which case the interchange at MD 290 becomes the last legal exit before toll.

Either way, any signage warning of the upcoming toll would be in Maryland and thus presumably up to SHA to install and maintain. So this will, at least in the near term, depend on how well DelDOT has coordinated with them.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on November 22, 2018, 09:01:59 AM
I suspect Maryland will end up needing to make some modifications to this intersection in order to deal with the shunpikers. This would logically entail either converting it to an actual signal, or banning turns for northbound traffic in which case the interchange at MD 290 becomes the last legal exit before toll.
It wouldn't be hard to make that northbound left turn a CFI swinging outside the weigh station. But it's even easier to ban left turns and send traffic through Sassafras.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on November 22, 2018, 11:17:25 AM
I think they have to really think about what road will continue past the weigh station because they don’t want people to see the Toll sign & automatically get off & drive thru middletown again, causing traffic back ups again. They will probably make it a little difficult, so traffic wont even waste their time trying to get off & they will just end up driving on the 301 anyway.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on November 23, 2018, 02:29:23 PM
I wonder if some of the more local traffic is going to pick up on this even simpler bypass using Edgar Price Road and DE 15:

(https://i.imgur.com/4ax9NYF.jpg)

If SHA ever decided to close the left turns at MD 299 I could see this getting busier.

(edited to fix image, looks like the site I had been uploading to is down)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on November 23, 2018, 03:31:30 PM
I wonder if some of the more local traffic is going to pick up on this even simpler bypass using Edgar Price Road and DE 15:

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/dPPoUYS0SQCeF_iPeAT_kA.png)

If SHA ever decided to close the left turns at MD 299 I could see this getting busier.
That right turn is easier then the left turn aint it? & that is a simple bypass, Surprised that isnt another spur road.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on November 23, 2018, 06:28:51 PM
I wonder if some of the more local traffic is going to pick up on this even simpler bypass using Edgar Price Road and DE 15:

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/dPPoUYS0SQCeF_iPeAT_kA.png)

If SHA ever decided to close the left turns at MD 299 I could see this getting busier.

Image is giving me a 403 error, anyone else?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on November 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM
I wonder if some of the more local traffic is going to pick up on this even simpler bypass using Edgar Price Road and DE 15:

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/dPPoUYS0SQCeF_iPeAT_kA.png)

If SHA ever decided to close the left turns at MD 299 I could see this getting busier.

Image is giving me a 403 error, anyone else?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/1c4c76f0b364984d3d94aa4f08539696.jpg)



iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 03, 2018, 12:46:31 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on December 03, 2018, 12:56:39 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...

Not surprising. Google jumps the gun on lots of things, including interstate designations. Our personnel have tried to get them without success to remove some of the markers that are only "future" at this time. And they won't change a wrong number they have listed for one of our facilities.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 03, 2018, 01:00:30 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...

Not surprising. Google jumps the gun on lots of things, including interstate designations. Our personnel have tried to get them without success to remove some of the markers that are only "future" at this time. And they won't change a wrong number they have listed for one of our facilities.
Yeah, DelDOT is dealing with the same thing.  As one member wrote...GPS is not god.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 03, 2018, 01:02:29 PM
They have the whole thing marked, and not even as a freeway, nor did they "unyellow" the old road.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on December 03, 2018, 02:31:59 PM
Huh, so they have. Wow.

(https://i.imgur.com/QJTVLKW.png)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 03, 2018, 03:10:29 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...

Not surprising. Google jumps the gun on lots of things, including interstate designations. Our personnel have tried to get them without success to remove some of the markers that are only "future" at this time. And they won't change a wrong number they have listed for one of our facilities.

And yet, it took weeks for them to recognize the new I-95 ramps in PA with the PA Turnpike, which some people saying that Google only does updates periodically.

Clearly the excuses are going both ways.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 03, 2018, 03:49:38 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...

Not surprising. Google jumps the gun on lots of things, including interstate designations. Our personnel have tried to get them without success to remove some of the markers that are only "future" at this time. And they won't change a wrong number they have listed for one of our facilities.

And yet, it took weeks for them to recognize the new I-95 ramps in PA with the PA Turnpike, which some people saying that Google only does updates periodically.

Clearly the excuses are going both ways.
That was my first thought when I saw this.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 03, 2018, 06:54:19 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...
Don't tell them. It's so close to opening that if they revert it, they'll be weeks late all over again.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 03, 2018, 09:21:33 PM
Okay, here's something interesting, if you try to get directions from Warwick MD to Wilmington DE on Google Maps, it sends you up the new 301 expressway, which hasn't opened yet...
Don't tell them. It's so close to opening that if they revert it, they'll be weeks late all over again.

Only report 301 still being shown on its original alignment if it's still like that when it actually opens.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 03, 2018, 09:23:56 PM
When does the 301 open? On Christmas?


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 03, 2018, 09:49:03 PM
When does the 301 open? On Christmas?
New Years 2019 (https://www.ezpassde.com/pages/FAQs.shtml)

Oh wow this is my 301st post.  :-D
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 04, 2018, 01:05:40 AM
When does the 301 open? On Christmas?
New Years 2019 (https://www.ezpassde.com/pages/FAQs.shtml)

Oh wow this is my 301st post.  :-D
The last thing they had said was December. Whoops. And congrats!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 04, 2018, 01:25:11 AM
When does the 301 open? On Christmas?
New Years 2019 (https://www.ezpassde.com/pages/FAQs.shtml)

Oh wow this is my 301st post.  :-D
The last thing they had said was December. Whoops. And congrats!
Yea thats what I remember hearing, a December opening. Maybe that might be in the next week or two, Im ready to spend $4 to drive on the new 301!!!!


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on December 12, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but go to https://blogs.deldot.gov/category/us301/us-301-project-updates/ and click on the blue portion of the line "Written on: [date written on] in US 301 Project Updates, US301" for the latest update.

This week, the link still shows bridge work, widening on U.S. 13, and paving work at the state line.

As for promotion of the toll road, I received a postcard from DelDot yesterday promoting the new toll road.  I believe I'm on DelDOT's mailing list. Has anyone else received this postcard?  It still shows 1/1/2019 as the projected opening date.  I agree that officials probably won't give up a holiday to cut a ribbon, but back in the day, July 4 IIRC was a favorite holiday to break ground for major projects or celebrate completion (breaking ground for the first stretch of the B&O Railroad comes to my mind).

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 06:39:03 AM
Yea thats what I remember hearing, a December opening. Maybe that might be in the next week or two, Im ready to spend $4 to drive on the new 301!!!!

Is that $4 each way, and does the amount vary by time?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 07:33:41 AM
Yea thats what I remember hearing, a December opening. Maybe that might be in the next week or two, Im ready to spend $4 to drive on the new 301!!!!

Is that $4 each way, and does the amount vary by time?
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301
There's two tolls on the facility - one that is $3 when you cross the state line, plus another $1 to enter & exit the highway. Local traffic would pay $1, and a thru traveler or local traffic crossing the state line would pay $4.

As far as I'm aware, there's no off-peak or peak times, it's always that toll rate.

I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles. It now forces local traffic down narrow 2 lane roads just to enter the town without having to pay $4 each time. IMO, the toll should be waived for locals in that area, as long as they don't ride the entire facility from the state line to SR 1.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:19:24 AM
Is that $4 each way, and does the amount vary by time?
https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301
There's two tolls on the facility - one that is $3 when you cross the state line, plus another $1 to enter & exit the highway. Local traffic would pay $1, and a thru traveler or local traffic crossing the state line would pay $4.
As far as I'm aware, there's no off-peak or peak times, it's always that toll rate.
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles. It now forces local traffic down narrow 2 lane roads just to enter the town without having to pay $4 each time. IMO, the toll should be waived for locals in that area, as long as they don't ride the entire facility from the state line to SR 1.

So you won't be able to connect between MD US-301 and DE-299 to Odessa without paying a $4 toll?  That's awful.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on December 12, 2018, 09:24:42 AM
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles.
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 12, 2018, 09:30:50 AM
I don't see any other toll gantries on either the Google imagery or the plans from the website besides the mainline gantry north of the state line and the three sets of north-facing ramp gantries. If the toll to get from Maryland to DE 1 is $4, then it must be one single charge at the mainline gantry.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:33:58 AM
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles.
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.

I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends. 

Unless you can take advantage of the Frequent User Plan which is $1.00 and $2.00 respectively.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:36:12 AM
So is Delaware now the state with the highest percentage of its freeway mileage being tolled?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:45:17 AM
I don't see any other toll gantries on either the Google imagery or the plans from the website besides the mainline gantry north of the state line and the three sets of north-facing ramp gantries. If the toll to get from Maryland to DE 1 is $4, then it must be one single charge at the mainline gantry.

MD-299 connects to US-301 two miles south of the border, so you could take that and avoid the new tollroad, use DE-299, connect to the DE-1 turnpike at Odessa, and northward from there to I-95.  But that segment of DE-1 costs at Weekday Rate $1.50 and Weekend Rate $3.50.

Looks like the new US-301 tollroad bypasses the tolled portion of DE-1, but based on the respective tolls and the slowness and urban nature of parts of Route 299, that there may be no incentive for thru traffic to avoid the US-301 tollroad.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on December 12, 2018, 10:29:11 AM
Looks like the new US-301 tollroad bypasses the tolled portion of DE-1, but based on the respective tolls and the slowness and urban nature of parts of Route 299, that there may be no incentive for thru traffic to avoid the US-301 tollroad.
I believe that such is intentional.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 12, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: Beltway
I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends.

Weekends are by far the busiest times on DE 1, especially summer weekends.  One could argue whether or not $6 is high but a level above $2 is certainly not unreasonable given the higher demand.

It's also in part how they're paying for all the interchange projects on DE 1 south of Dover.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on December 12, 2018, 01:33:27 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges/tunnels excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 03:18:03 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.

So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 12, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.

So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
Wheres that route at? You have to still pay the GWB no matter what way you take.
(The only freeway is coming from the top of NY.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 03:22:25 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.
So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
Wheres that route at? You have to still pay the GWB no matter what way you take.
(The only freeway is coming from the top of NY.

Wherever the NY Thruway becomes the Major Deegan Expressway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on December 12, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.
So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
Wheres that route at? You have to still pay the GWB no matter what way you take.
(The only freeway is coming from the top of NY.

Wherever the NY Thruway becomes the Major Deegan Expressway.
Depending on where one gets on the Thruway, one still pays a toll at the Tappan Zee/Hudson River crossing.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles.
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.
The difference with that though is that a local can exit before either toll and head into either city using modern 4-lane roads. In this instance, if you lived in Middletown and wanted to go into Maryland for some reason, to avoid the steep entrance toll, you'd have to exit before the toll, and drive down narrow 2 lane roads. In dry weather during the day, it's okay (but still messed up). During rain and at night, the risk of an accident is much higher, especially if a lot of traffic choses to use it.

I understand the goal is to toll thru traffic, but there should always be a safe shunpiking route or one locals can use. In this instance, there's no good alternative besides these narrow country roads. The toll on I-95 can be avoided by locals by safe, modern 4-lane roads. Even if it was 2 lanes, but full width, that would work too.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on December 12, 2018, 04:07:21 PM
You're missing the point. You can bail at the first exit (and sometimes later) without paying a toll (to the Thruway) at any of the four state line crossings on the Thruway system.

But Delaware could just as easily put the I-95 toll between 896 and 273, and it would actually be harder to bypass than the current location.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 04:13:54 PM
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles.
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.

I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends. 

Unless you can take advantage of the Frequent User Plan which is $1.00 and $2.00 respectively.
Agreed that $6 is unreasonable, and $2 is reasonable. It reminds of Route 168 in Chesapeake, Virginia, the toll was originally $2 all time. It was increased to $3 off-peak, and now $8 during weekends, one-way. In 2020, that toll will go up a dollar for both, $4 off-peak, $9 peak. Outrageous tolls here, just to travel 6 miles, and you only get to do 55 MPH. The shunpiking route is a slightly lower 45 MPH, and carries double the traffic as the toll road. It's funny, that road cost $120 million to build in 2001, and has collected $150 million already. Tolls are set to continue until 2051... which begs the question, why?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on December 12, 2018, 04:20:31 PM
I honestly think it's messed up to charge $4 simply to cross the state line, especially if you're not going using the facility for more than 2 miles.
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.

I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends. 

Unless you can take advantage of the Frequent User Plan which is $1.00 and $2.00 respectively.
Agreed that $6 is unreasonable, and $2 is reasonable. It reminds of Route 168 in Chesapeake, Virginia, the toll was originally $2 all time. It was increased to $3 off-peak, and now $8 during weekends, one-way. In 2020, that toll will go up a dollar for both, $4 off-peak, $9 peak. Outrageous tolls here, just to travel 6 miles, and you only get to do 55 MPH. The shunpiking route is a slightly lower 45 MPH, and carries double the traffic as the toll road. It's funny, that road cost $120 million to build in 2001, and has collected $150 million already. Tolls are set to continue until 2051... which begs the question, why?

Summer weekends I can understand, but charging the same rate on weekends from October to April is crazy.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
I don't see any other toll gantries on either the Google imagery or the plans from the website besides the mainline gantry north of the state line and the three sets of north-facing ramp gantries. If the toll to get from Maryland to DE 1 is $4, then it must be one single charge at the mainline gantry.

MD-299 connects to US-301 two miles south of the border, so you could take that and avoid the new tollroad, use DE-299, connect to the DE-1 turnpike at Odessa, and northward from there to I-95.  But that segment of DE-1 costs at Weekday Rate $1.50 and Weekend Rate $3.50.

Looks like the new US-301 tollroad bypasses the tolled portion of DE-1, but based on the respective tolls and the slowness and urban nature of parts of Route 299, that there may be no incentive for thru traffic to avoid the US-301 tollroad.
There's no incentive for thru-traffic to avoid the toll, but for a local, avoiding the toll is key, because it is pointless to pay $4 one-way when you're just going to enter the town anyways.

Another question is, there's a few distribution centers in Middletown, along with many businesses. Will truckers be willing to pay the $9 truck toll just to drop off cargo right over the state line? It'd be interesting to see how it plays out - big semis could be barreling down these narrow 2-lane roads, and to save $9, many would risk it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 04:41:48 PM
I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends.   Unless you can take advantage of the Frequent User Plan which is $1.00 and $2.00 respectively.
Agreed that $6 is unreasonable, and $2 is reasonable. It reminds of Route 168 in Chesapeake, Virginia, the toll was originally $2 all time. It was increased to $3 off-peak, and now $8 during weekends, one-way. In 2020, that toll will go up a dollar for both, $4 off-peak, $9 peak. Outrageous tolls here, just to travel 6 miles, and you only get to do 55 MPH. The shunpiking route is a slightly lower 45 MPH, and carries double the traffic as the toll road. It's funny, that road cost $120 million to build in 2001, and has collected $150 million already. Tolls are set to continue until 2051... which begs the question, why?

I seriously, seriously question the notion that it has collected $150 million.

Regular users get a major break, the Chesapeake Expressway Discount Member Rate for 2-axle vehicles is $0.75 on every day of the week.
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 12, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
I don't see any other toll gantries on either the Google imagery or the plans from the website besides the mainline gantry north of the state line and the three sets of north-facing ramp gantries. If the toll to get from Maryland to DE 1 is $4, then it must be one single charge at the mainline gantry.

MD-299 connects to US-301 two miles south of the border, so you could take that and avoid the new tollroad, use DE-299, connect to the DE-1 turnpike at Odessa, and northward from there to I-95.  But that segment of DE-1 costs at Weekday Rate $1.50 and Weekend Rate $3.50.

Looks like the new US-301 tollroad bypasses the tolled portion of DE-1, but based on the respective tolls and the slowness and urban nature of parts of Route 299, that there may be no incentive for thru traffic to avoid the US-301 tollroad.
There's no incentive for thru-traffic to avoid the toll, but for a local, avoiding the toll is key, because it is pointless to pay $4 one-way when you're just going to enter the town anyways.

Another question is, there's a few distribution centers in Middletown, along with many businesses. Will truckers be willing to pay the $9 truck toll just to drop off cargo right over the state line? It'd be interesting to see how it plays out - big semis could be barreling down these narrow 2-lane roads, and to save $9, many would risk it.
They already barrel down the 2 lane roads, Ive seen close accidents with many of the trucks in this area, From truck tires blown out & trucks not realizing it & trucks driving very close to cars & / or speeding.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 04:55:00 PM
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.
The difference with that though is that a local can exit before either toll and head into either city using modern 4-lane roads. In this instance, if you lived in Middletown and wanted to go into Maryland for some reason, to avoid the steep entrance toll, you'd have to exit before the toll, and drive down narrow 2 lane roads. In dry weather during the day, it's okay (but still messed up). During rain and at night, the risk of an accident is much higher, especially if a lot of traffic choses to use it.

The difference being that even before I-95 was built, US-40 was a 4-lane divided highway in the same corridor. 

There is no need for the bulk of MD and DE 299 to have more than 2 lanes.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 02 Park Ave on December 12, 2018, 05:16:00 PM
Perhaps the E-ZPass toll rate can adjusted for local residents.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 05:18:22 PM
I see on the toll calculator that the DE-1 turnpike is a reasonable $2 on weekdays, but is an unreasonable $6 on weekends.   Unless you can take advantage of the Frequent User Plan which is $1.00 and $2.00 respectively.
Agreed that $6 is unreasonable, and $2 is reasonable. It reminds of Route 168 in Chesapeake, Virginia, the toll was originally $2 all time. It was increased to $3 off-peak, and now $8 during weekends, one-way. In 2020, that toll will go up a dollar for both, $4 off-peak, $9 peak. Outrageous tolls here, just to travel 6 miles, and you only get to do 55 MPH. The shunpiking route is a slightly lower 45 MPH, and carries double the traffic as the toll road. It's funny, that road cost $120 million to build in 2001, and has collected $150 million already. Tolls are set to continue until 2051... which begs the question, why?

I seriously, seriously question the notion that it has collected $150 million.

Regular users get a major break, the Chesapeake Expressway Discount Member Rate for 2-axle vehicles is $0.75 on every day of the week.
I created this using documents from Chesapeake Expressway's annual collection reports. It documents toll collection amounts from each year. As of May 2018, it adds up to $148,596,028. The original project cost $116,000,000, as per your article on the Expressway (http://www.roadstothefuture.com/VA168_Chesa_Expwy.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/dQ296S4.png)

The toll was supposed to paid off by 2032, or sooner if significant revenue was generated (as you can see with the numbers, them hiking the peak toll accelerated the revenue generation). It's 13 years before 2032, and revenue has exceeded expectations, and the road is fully paid off. The tolls need to come off in 2019, not this now 2051 year.

As for the discounted toll, I agree with it, and if I could use the toll road, I would pay the discounted toll. The problem is, I commute on Battlefield Blvd daily (the parallel road) and it is heavy on traffic. Daily 2 mile backups because of one traffic light. You hop on the expressway  (I've done it before), and it is practically empty, only a few group of cars here and there, even at rush hour.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 02 Park Ave on December 12, 2018, 06:30:49 PM
Regarding the U. S. 301 toll, what is the toll for traveling rhe comparitable distance on DE 1?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 06:41:17 PM
I agree but I-95 just north of the Elkton, MD/Newark, DE border has been charging that rate for years.
The difference with that though is that a local can exit before either toll and head into either city using modern 4-lane roads. In this instance, if you lived in Middletown and wanted to go into Maryland for some reason, to avoid the steep entrance toll, you'd have to exit before the toll, and drive down narrow 2 lane roads. In dry weather during the day, it's okay (but still messed up). During rain and at night, the risk of an accident is much higher, especially if a lot of traffic choses to use it.

The difference being that even before I-95 was built, US-40 was a 4-lane divided highway in the same corridor. 

There is no need for the bulk of MD and DE 299 to have more than 2 lanes.
Agreed, but the roads should be widened out to full 2 lane width - 12 foot lanes and 4 foot paved shoulders - especially if locals are going to divert this way.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 12, 2018, 07:32:53 PM

I created this using documents from Chesapeake Expressway's annual collection reports. It documents toll collection amounts from each year. As of May 2018, it adds up to $148,596,028. The original project cost $116,000,000, as per your article on the Expressway (http://www.roadstothefuture.com/VA168_Chesa_Expwy.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/dQ296S4.png)

The toll was supposed to paid off by 2032, or sooner if significant revenue was generated (as you can see with the numbers, them hiking the peak toll accelerated the revenue generation). It's 13 years before 2032, and revenue has exceeded expectations, and the road is fully paid off. The tolls need to come off in 2019, not this now 2051 year.

 


I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf

Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 08:02:02 PM

I created this using documents from Chesapeake Expressway's annual collection reports. It documents toll collection amounts from each year. As of May 2018, it adds up to $148,596,028. The original project cost $116,000,000, as per your article on the Expressway (http://www.roadstothefuture.com/VA168_Chesa_Expwy.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/dQ296S4.png)

The toll was supposed to paid off by 2032, or sooner if significant revenue was generated (as you can see with the numbers, them hiking the peak toll accelerated the revenue generation). It's 13 years before 2032, and revenue has exceeded expectations, and the road is fully paid off. The tolls need to come off in 2019, not this now 2051 year.

 


I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf

Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
So far, they've exceeded $30 million in additional revenue that beats the project costs. By 2023, they would've exceeded $200 million in collection, over $80 million total over project costs. That amount of money is more than enough to fully complete repayments, and if it isn't, the rest can be paid off by local or state funding.

One incentive to pay the road off with public funding for the rest, is that the shunpiking route, Battlefield Blvd, is a bottleneck. The costs to repay the rest with public funding would not be significantly high, whatever that number may be, compared to the cost of building the expressway to begin with. If the expressway had its tolls removed, all thru traffic would stay on the highway, instead of backing up 2 miles daily because of one traffic signal. 21,000 VPD currently use Battlefield Blvd while a little under 10,000 VPD use the expressway.

We've had our time with the toll road, it's essentially paid off now, and we need to remove the tolls, fix all of the traffic issues, instead of leaving them for another 32 years.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 12, 2018, 08:03:21 PM
Exactly.  Sprjus4 was only looking at the original construction cost and didn't check maintenance and upkeep, repavings (I know of at least one since construction), expansion of the toll plaza, or interest on the original bonds.

Furthermore, Slide 13 on the presentation Mapmikey posted says that the Peak tolls on VA-168 (the current $8 toll) only applies on weekends between mid-May and mid-September...specifically the weekend before Memorial Day weekend to the weekend after Labor Day weekend.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 08:11:51 PM
Exactly.  Sprjus4 was only looking at the original construction cost and didn't check maintenance and upkeep, repavings (I know of at least one since construction), expansion of the toll plaza, or interest on the original bonds.

Furthermore, Slide 13 on the presentation Mapmikey posted says that the Peak tolls on VA-168 (the current $8 toll) only applies on weekends between mid-May and mid-September...specifically the weekend before Memorial Day weekend to the weekend after Labor Day weekend.
The highway has only been paved once since its opening, and the toll plaza expansion cost under $5 million. As I've stated above, by 2023, the expressway would've already collected over $80 million in additional revenue. That is plenty enough to fully pay it off, or if not the rest can be picked up by local or state funding. If either aren't options, then the city needs to plan some improvements to the shunpiking route, because currently, as I stated above, there are a lot of traffic issues with the existing route. It would be wrong doing just to leave the daily backups to stay for 32 more years, and to leave the expressway empty.

As for peak tolls, I know it's only in summer months. I guess I forgot to mention it above, but it's still an absurd rate. Many tourists have started using Battlefield Blvd since the tolls went up to $8 to avoid the high costs. The highest it should be is maybe $5 or 6.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 08:27:36 PM
I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf
Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
So far, they've exceeded $30 million in additional revenue that beats the project costs. By 2023, they would've exceeded $200 million in collection, over $80 million total over project costs. That amount of money is more than enough to fully complete repayments, and if it isn't, the rest can be paid off by local or state funding.
One incentive to pay the road off with public funding for the rest, is that the shunpiking route, Battlefield Blvd, is a bottleneck. The costs to repay the rest with public funding would not be significantly high, whatever that number may be, compared to the cost of building the expressway to begin with. If the expressway had its tolls removed, all thru traffic would stay on the highway, instead of backing up 2 miles daily because of one traffic signal. 21,000 VPD currently use Battlefield Blvd while a little under 10,000 VPD use the expressway.
We've had our time with the toll road, it's essentially paid off now, and we need to remove the tolls, fix all of the traffic issues, instead of leaving them for another 32 years.

So if the current average toll is $2 (local discounts are only 75 cents, so that may be high) --
10,000 x 2 x 365 = $7.3 million for current year.  Much lower than the list that you posted.

Debt service is high -- I would have to see the interest rate on the bonds, but similar to the mortgage on a house, the total principal plus interest could be over twice the cost to build the highway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 12, 2018, 08:30:57 PM
Exactly.  Sprjus4 was only looking at the original construction cost and didn't check maintenance and upkeep, repavings (I know of at least one since construction), expansion of the toll plaza, or interest on the original bonds.

Furthermore, Slide 13 on the presentation Mapmikey posted says that the Peak tolls on VA-168 (the current $8 toll) only applies on weekends between mid-May and mid-September...specifically the weekend before Memorial Day weekend to the weekend after Labor Day weekend.
The highway has only been paved once since its opening, and the toll plaza expansion cost under $5 million. As I've stated above, by 2023, the expressway would've already collected over $80 million in additional revenue. That is plenty enough to fully pay it off, or if not the rest can be picked up by local or state funding. If either aren't options, then the city needs to plan some improvements to the shunpiking route, because currently, as I stated above, there are a lot of traffic issues with the existing route. It would be wrong doing just to leave the daily backups to stay for 32 more years, and to leave the expressway empty.

The point is that you weren't looking at ANY of those expenses or debt service or interest when you made your claim.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 08:37:51 PM
I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf
Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
So far, they've exceeded $30 million in additional revenue that beats the project costs. By 2023, they would've exceeded $200 million in collection, over $80 million total over project costs. That amount of money is more than enough to fully complete repayments, and if it isn't, the rest can be paid off by local or state funding.
One incentive to pay the road off with public funding for the rest, is that the shunpiking route, Battlefield Blvd, is a bottleneck. The costs to repay the rest with public funding would not be significantly high, whatever that number may be, compared to the cost of building the expressway to begin with. If the expressway had its tolls removed, all thru traffic would stay on the highway, instead of backing up 2 miles daily because of one traffic signal. 21,000 VPD currently use Battlefield Blvd while a little under 10,000 VPD use the expressway.
We've had our time with the toll road, it's essentially paid off now, and we need to remove the tolls, fix all of the traffic issues, instead of leaving them for another 32 years.

So if the current average toll is $2 (local discounts are only 75 cents, so that may be high) --
10,000 x 2 x 365 = $7.3 million for current year.  Much lower than the list that you posted.

Debt service is high -- I would have to see the interest rate on the bonds, but similar to the mortgage on a house, the total principal plus interest could be over twice the cost to build the highway.
The number I'm giving comes directly from City of Chesapeake reports. It makes around $11-12 million per year. One of the factors is the summer peak tolls, those drive in lots of money, approx. $2 million per month in June, July, and August. Keep in mind traffic volumes increase during the summer from 10,000. I don't know what the numbers are for fully paying off the expressway, it would be nice if that information was made public or easily accessible, like these numbers are.

I emailed the Toll Advisory Committee of the Expressway a few months ago regarding traffic issues, and the toll repayments, and was told I would receive a follow up "a few weeks later", however it's been almost 4 months, and I've heard nothing back.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
So if the current average toll is $2 (local discounts are only 75 cents, so that may be high) --
10,000 x 2 x 365 = $7.3 million for current year.  Much lower than the list that you posted.
Debt service is high -- I would have to see the interest rate on the bonds, but similar to the mortgage on a house, the total principal plus interest could be over twice the cost to build the highway.
The number I'm giving comes directly from City of Chesapeake reports. It makes around $11-12 million per year. One of the factors is the summer peak tolls, those drive in lots of money, approx. $2 million per month in June, July, and August. Keep in mind traffic volumes increase during the summer from 10,000. I don't know what the numbers are for fully paying off the expressway, it would be nice if that information was made public or easily accessible, like these numbers are.

Yes, but you gave the average daily traffic figure, IOW the 365 days averaged out.

I emailed the Toll Advisory Committee of the Expressway a few months ago regarding traffic issues, and the toll repayments, and was told I would receive a follow up "a few weeks later", however it's been almost 4 months, and I've heard nothing back.

Contact them again, and if you don't get an answer, again and again on about a 2 or 3-week schedule.  Sometimes you have to be persistent with a government agency.  Use the phone and try to contact a subject matter expert.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on December 12, 2018, 08:59:32 PM
IMO the "soak everyone crossing the state line" toll scheme the DE uses should be illegal (things like major bridges excepted).  I like how the Thruway does it - allow everyone to enter the state and exit without charge if they decide they don't want to pay.

So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
I specifically excluded major bridges (and meant to include tunnels; I've since edited my post) for exactly this scenario.  In that case, the toll is for the crossing, not just to "soak the strangers".  That's why I referenced the Thruway.  Entering from PA heading to Buffalo, you pass exit 61, and only THEN do you get to the toll barrier at the end of the ticket system.  It's the same crossing from MA, leaving NYC, and when crossing from NJ on I-287.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:02:40 PM
So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
I specifically excluded major bridges (and meant to include tunnels; I've since edited my post) for exactly this scenario.  In that case, the toll is for the crossing, not just to "soak the strangers".  That's why I referenced the Thruway.  Entering from PA heading to Buffalo, you pass exit 61, and only THEN do you get to the toll barrier at the end of the ticket system.  It's the same crossing from MA, leaving NYC, and when crossing from NJ on I-287.

OK, how about PA to Albany?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on December 12, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
So if someone drives it from PA to NYC, and don't want to pay the toll, that they will let them get away with that?
I specifically excluded major bridges (and meant to include tunnels; I've since edited my post) for exactly this scenario.  In that case, the toll is for the crossing, not just to "soak the strangers".  That's why I referenced the Thruway.  Entering from PA heading to Buffalo, you pass exit 61, and only THEN do you get to the toll barrier at the end of the ticket system.  It's the same crossing from MA, leaving NYC, and when crossing from NJ on I-287.

OK, how about PA to Albany?
Easy enough: if coming from Erie, exit at exit 61 and take US 20 or NY 5; if entering from anywhere else, you were already in NY for a while before encountering the Thruway.  The Thruway also doesn't weight tolls towards the end of the system like Delaware does, either.  $3 to go the 2 miles from MD to the first interchange and then $1 to go the entire rest of US 301 (a lot more than 2 miles) is complete BS.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 12, 2018, 09:10:23 PM
I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf
Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
So far, they've exceeded $30 million in additional revenue that beats the project costs. By 2023, they would've exceeded $200 million in collection, over $80 million total over project costs. That amount of money is more than enough to fully complete repayments, and if it isn't, the rest can be paid off by local or state funding.
One incentive to pay the road off with public funding for the rest, is that the shunpiking route, Battlefield Blvd, is a bottleneck. The costs to repay the rest with public funding would not be significantly high, whatever that number may be, compared to the cost of building the expressway to begin with. If the expressway had its tolls removed, all thru traffic would stay on the highway, instead of backing up 2 miles daily because of one traffic signal. 21,000 VPD currently use Battlefield Blvd while a little under 10,000 VPD use the expressway.
We've had our time with the toll road, it's essentially paid off now, and we need to remove the tolls, fix all of the traffic issues, instead of leaving them for another 32 years.

So if the current average toll is $2 (local discounts are only 75 cents, so that may be high) --
10,000 x 2 x 365 = $7.3 million for current year.  Much lower than the list that you posted.

Debt service is high -- I would have to see the interest rate on the bonds, but similar to the mortgage on a house, the total principal plus interest could be over twice the cost to build the highway.
The number I'm giving comes directly from City of Chesapeake reports. It makes around $11-12 million per year. One of the factors is the summer peak tolls, those drive in lots of money, approx. $2 million per month in June, July, and August. Keep in mind traffic volumes increase during the summer from 10,000. I don't know what the numbers are for fully paying off the expressway, it would be nice if that information was made public or easily accessible, like these numbers are.

I emailed the Toll Advisory Committee of the Expressway a few months ago regarding traffic issues, and the toll repayments, and was told I would receive a follow up "a few weeks later", however it's been almost 4 months, and I've heard nothing back.


Again they do not NET $11-12M per year.  Those reports only disclose the amount of $ they collected in tolls and not how much has to be spent on running the toll system, maintaining the road, etc. which leaves them a smaller amount to contribute to principle + debt, plus I assume they are allowed to have some profit for their trouble.

Sure it would be great if the City had tens of millions available to buy out the road but I'm guessing they do not...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 09:49:11 PM
Again they do not NET $11-12M per year.  Those reports only disclose the amount of $ they collected in tolls and not how much has to be spent on running the toll system, maintaining the road, etc. which leaves them a smaller amount to contribute to principle + debt, plus I assume they are allowed to have some profit for their trouble.
Sure it would be great if the City had tens of millions available to buy out the road but I'm guessing they do not...

The Chesapeake Expressway is no longer a stand-alone toll facility.  The $430 million Dominion Boulevard project completed in 2017 is now part of a pooled-funding toll system called the Chesapeake Transportation System.

"The toll rate increased on May 1, 2011 for the first time since the opening of the Expressway.  The City routinely reviews and analyzes the Optimum Toll Rate to meet the requirements of the Bond Indenture.  The toll increase is necessary in order to meet financial obligations.  The Chesapeake Expressway is part of the Chesapeake Transportation System along with the improved Dominion Boulevard corridor.  On July 10, 2012, the Chesapeake City Council approved the initial toll schedule for the Chesapeake Transportation System.

http://www.chesapeakeexpressway.com/FAQs.htm
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
Again they do not NET $11-12M per year.  Those reports only disclose the amount of $ they collected in tolls and not how much has to be spent on running the toll system, maintaining the road, etc. which leaves them a smaller amount to contribute to principle + debt, plus I assume they are allowed to have some profit for their trouble.
Sure it would be great if the City had tens of millions available to buy out the road but I'm guessing they do not...

The Chesapeake Expressway is no longer a stand-alone toll facility.  The $430 million Dominion Boulevard project completed in 2017 is now part of a pooled-funding toll system called the Chesapeake Transportation System.

"The toll rate increased on May 1, 2011 for the first time since the opening of the Expressway.  The City routinely reviews and analyzes the Optimum Toll Rate to meet the requirements of the Bond Indenture.  The toll increase is necessary in order to meet financial obligations.  The Chesapeake Expressway is part of the Chesapeake Transportation System along with the improved Dominion Boulevard corridor.  On July 10, 2012, the Chesapeake City Council approved the initial toll schedule for the Chesapeake Transportation System.

http://www.chesapeakeexpressway.com/FAQs.htm
Yeah, I'm aware of that. This is where it's interesting though - if you take the current revenue amounts from both Dominion and Chesapeake Expressway (approx $10-11 million each per year), combined with the $150 million already collected on the Expressway, it adds up to approx $820 million collected between 2001 and 2051 on both facilities. That also doesn't factor yearly increases on Dominion, which would easily bring that number to $840 million or more.

Both projects combined (construction only) cost $461 million total. Dominion Blvd cost $345 million, and Expressway was $116 million. With these numbers, that would mean maintenance, operations, repayments, etc. would cost $360 million or more. That's where I feel like some unnecessary revenue is being generated, and that it really wouldn't cost that much. Once both projects are fully paid off, the tolls should be removed. I think the city is in the wrong by setting a "fixed" date, so if it's paid off before then, they get to bring in extra cash until 2051. And even then, it's up to council to remove it - they could opt to keep both as a cash cow for the city. It should be automatically removed as soon as both projects and additional costs are paid off.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 12, 2018, 11:08:50 PM
I don't think this data takes into account ANY expenses.  See slide 12 at http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/Oct+2013+Traffic+$!26+Revenue+Report.pdf
Also the amount to repay is not $125M but also whatever debt service came with it...
So far, they've exceeded $30 million in additional revenue that beats the project costs. By 2023, they would've exceeded $200 million in collection, over $80 million total over project costs. That amount of money is more than enough to fully complete repayments, and if it isn't, the rest can be paid off by local or state funding.
One incentive to pay the road off with public funding for the rest, is that the shunpiking route, Battlefield Blvd, is a bottleneck. The costs to repay the rest with public funding would not be significantly high, whatever that number may be, compared to the cost of building the expressway to begin with. If the expressway had its tolls removed, all thru traffic would stay on the highway, instead of backing up 2 miles daily because of one traffic signal. 21,000 VPD currently use Battlefield Blvd while a little under 10,000 VPD use the expressway.
We've had our time with the toll road, it's essentially paid off now, and we need to remove the tolls, fix all of the traffic issues, instead of leaving them for another 32 years.

So if the current average toll is $2 (local discounts are only 75 cents, so that may be high) --
10,000 x 2 x 365 = $7.3 million for current year.  Much lower than the list that you posted.

Debt service is high -- I would have to see the interest rate on the bonds, but similar to the mortgage on a house, the total principal plus interest could be over twice the cost to build the highway.
The number I'm giving comes directly from City of Chesapeake reports. It makes around $11-12 million per year. One of the factors is the summer peak tolls, those drive in lots of money, approx. $2 million per month in June, July, and August. Keep in mind traffic volumes increase during the summer from 10,000. I don't know what the numbers are for fully paying off the expressway, it would be nice if that information was made public or easily accessible, like these numbers are.

I emailed the Toll Advisory Committee of the Expressway a few months ago regarding traffic issues, and the toll repayments, and was told I would receive a follow up "a few weeks later", however it's been almost 4 months, and I've heard nothing back.


Again they do not NET $11-12M per year.  Those reports only disclose the amount of $ they collected in tolls and not how much has to be spent on running the toll system, maintaining the road, etc. which leaves them a smaller amount to contribute to principle + debt, plus I assume they are allowed to have some profit for their trouble.

Sure it would be great if the City had tens of millions available to buy out the road but I'm guessing they do not...
All of the money collected by the tolls go into repaying bonds and loans, and maintenance, etc. None of the money is not used. My questioning is why it would cost over $360 million in maintenance and costs in the end.

IMO, the bonds should've only paid for construction costs, and maintenance should be dealt with like any other highway - through public funding. Tolls should only be an alternative way to fund the highways construction when traditional funds lack. Maintenance should be a completely separate issue.

But I guess we're stuck with what we have. What I really want to know is what is left to pay off on the Expressway from the money they have as of now.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 12, 2018, 11:49:43 PM
Yeah, I'm aware of that. This is where it's interesting though - if you take the current revenue amounts from both Dominion and Chesapeake Expressway (approx $10-11 million each per year), combined with the $150 million already collected on the Expressway, it adds up to approx $820 million collected between 2001 and 2051 on both facilities. That also doesn't factor yearly increases on Dominion, which would easily bring that number to $840 million or more.
Both projects combined (construction only) cost $461 million total. Dominion Blvd cost $345 million, and Expressway was $116 million. With these numbers, that would mean maintenance, operations, repayments, etc. would cost $360 million or more. That's where I feel like some unnecessary revenue is being generated, and that it really wouldn't cost that much. Once both projects are fully paid off, the tolls should be removed. I think the city is in the wrong by setting a "fixed" date, so if it's paid off before then, they get to bring in extra cash until 2051. And even then, it's up to council to remove it - they could opt to keep both as a cash cow for the city. It should be automatically removed as soon as both projects and additional costs are paid off.

If the construction-only cost is $461 million total, then find the figures for preliminary engineering, construction engineering, and right-of-way acquisition, that could easily add another 15-20%.

Even assuming those figures, it you do a 30-year amortization at 5% interest, the total cost of the debt service is about 2.5 times the original principal, or about $1.15 billion.  If they are aiming at 2051 then that looks reasonable, and if they are paid off say 5 years earlier then they can entertain removing the tolls or reducing them to a much lower level.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 12, 2018, 11:50:03 PM
You're missing the point. You can bail at the first exit (and sometimes later) without paying a toll (to the Thruway) at any of the four state line crossings on the Thruway system.

But Delaware could just as easily put the I-95 toll between 896 and 273, and it would actually be harder to bypass than the current location.
... you just take 273 to 4 instead of 896.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 13, 2018, 06:49:59 AM
Here is some more potential information on the Chesapeake Expressway (first conceived in 1968!).  Start on pdf page 68 at http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/meetings/minutes_pdf/CTB-12-1996-01.pdf

This document has some information on the financing - http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/pdf/2010-10-Chesapeake_Expressway_Report.pdf which states that as of 2008 the outstanding principal balance from the 3 loans was still about $90M.

The last part of this document talks about the financing of the Dominion Blvd part and how both facilities are combined to service all their repayment obligations - http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 13, 2018, 07:20:56 AM
Here is some more potential information on the Chesapeake Expressway (first conceived in 1968!).  Start on pdf page 68 at http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/meetings/minutes_pdf/CTB-12-1996-01.pdf

Although per my research location approval in 1972 for the Great Bridge Bypass and the Oak Grove Connector, and from the south end of the Great Bridge Bypass to the North Carolina border, the approved concept was for dualization of the existing VA-168 by building a parallel roadway, resulting in a four-lane divided noncontrolled-access highway, and a couple sections would have been realigned.  The relocated limited access highway plan was approved in 1989, for the segment south of the Great Bridge Bypass.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 13, 2018, 05:24:41 PM
Yeah, I'm aware of that. This is where it's interesting though - if you take the current revenue amounts from both Dominion and Chesapeake Expressway (approx $10-11 million each per year), combined with the $150 million already collected on the Expressway, it adds up to approx $820 million collected between 2001 and 2051 on both facilities. That also doesn't factor yearly increases on Dominion, which would easily bring that number to $840 million or more.
Both projects combined (construction only) cost $461 million total. Dominion Blvd cost $345 million, and Expressway was $116 million. With these numbers, that would mean maintenance, operations, repayments, etc. would cost $360 million or more. That's where I feel like some unnecessary revenue is being generated, and that it really wouldn't cost that much. Once both projects are fully paid off, the tolls should be removed. I think the city is in the wrong by setting a "fixed" date, so if it's paid off before then, they get to bring in extra cash until 2051. And even then, it's up to council to remove it - they could opt to keep both as a cash cow for the city. It should be automatically removed as soon as both projects and additional costs are paid off.


If the construction-only cost is $461 million total, then find the figures for preliminary engineering, construction engineering, and right-of-way acquisition, that could easily add another 15-20%.

Even assuming those figures, it you do a 30-year amortization at 5% interest, the total cost of the debt service is about 2.5 times the original principal, or about $1.15 billion.  If they are aiming at 2051 then that looks reasonable, and if they are paid off say 5 years earlier then they can entertain removing the tolls or reducing them to a much lower level.
Here is some more potential information on the Chesapeake Expressway (first conceived in 1968!).  Start on pdf page 68 at http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/meetings/minutes_pdf/CTB-12-1996-01.pdf

This document has some information on the financing - http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/pdf/2010-10-Chesapeake_Expressway_Report.pdf which states that as of 2008 the outstanding principal balance from the 3 loans was still about $90M.

The last part of this document talks about the financing of the Dominion Blvd part and how both facilities are combined to service all their repayment obligations - http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf
I currently do not have information on the Expressway, but as for Dominion Blvd, the city provides a good description of all the funds. (http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/government/city-departments/departments/Public-Works-Department/chesapeake-transportation-system/bridges-dominion-blvd-improvements/project-facts.htm)

For the project alone (which includes R/W acquisition, engineering, construction) it cost $345.2 million. For interest, debt service, and other fees, that only costs the city an additional $34.9 million. They also owe $19.3 million for refinancing of Chesapeake Expressway bonds. In total, the entire package costs $399.4 million.

As for who funded what, state and local funds paid $88.9 million, while bonds and loans paid for the other $310.4 million.

In total, for Dominion Blvd alone, the city owes back $345.3 million (which is similar to the costs of construction alone, thanks to public funding picking up the rest), which is collected in tolls.
---
Assuming Dominion Boulevard' interest and debt service is $34.9 million, the Expressway's should be lower, as the bonds and loans for it was less money.

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 13, 2018, 08:07:27 PM
For the project alone (which includes R/W acquisition, engineering, construction) it cost $345.2 million. For interest, debt service, and other fees, that only costs the city an additional $34.9 million. They also owe $19.3 million for refinancing of Chesapeake Expressway bonds. In total, the entire package costs $399.4 million.
As for who funded what, state and local funds paid $88.9 million, while bonds and loans paid for the other $310.4 million.
In total, for Dominion Blvd alone, the city owes back $345.3 million (which is similar to the costs of construction alone, thanks to public funding picking up the rest), which is collected in tolls.

Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 13, 2018, 08:17:25 PM
For the project alone (which includes R/W acquisition, engineering, construction) it cost $345.2 million. For interest, debt service, and other fees, that only costs the city an additional $34.9 million. They also owe $19.3 million for refinancing of Chesapeake Expressway bonds. In total, the entire package costs $399.4 million.
As for who funded what, state and local funds paid $88.9 million, while bonds and loans paid for the other $310.4 million.
In total, for Dominion Blvd alone, the city owes back $345.3 million (which is similar to the costs of construction alone, thanks to public funding picking up the rest), which is collected in tolls.

Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.


Slide 15 at http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf suggests one of the large loans for the Dominion Blvd project was 3.3%
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 13, 2018, 08:33:03 PM
Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.
Slide 15 at http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf suggests one of the large loans for the Dominion Blvd project was 3.3%

That is the VTIB Loan.  We need to find the interest rate for the Senior Toll Revenue Bonds, they are probably higher given that VTIB is a government entity.

At that rate over 34 years the interest will be 67% of the principal.

One million dollar loan would cost a total of $1,671,956.

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Mapmikey on December 13, 2018, 10:09:21 PM
Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.
Slide 15 at http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf suggests one of the large loans for the Dominion Blvd project was 3.3%

That is the VTIB Loan.  We need to find the interest rate for the Senior Toll Revenue Bonds, they are probably higher given that VTIB is a government entity.

At that rate over 34 years the interest will be 67% of the principal.

One million dollar loan would cost a total of $1,671,956.



The interest rate on the Senior Toll Bonds is 4.599%.  See http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/Dominion+Financial+Close+Release.pdf
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 13, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
The interest rate on the Senior Toll Bonds is 4.599%.  See http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/Dominion+Financial+Close+Release.pdf

Good info!!

"The City of Chesapeake closed today on $150.7 million Chesapeake Transportation System (CTS) Senior Toll Road Revenue Bonds and a $152 million subordinate loan provided by the Virginia Transportation Infrastructure Bank (VTIB) to provide funding, together with other federal and state funding sources, for the Dominion Boulevard Improvement Project.
 
The Bonds are secured solely by the net revenues of the CTS and are not backed by the City’s full faith and credit or other resources.  The bonds, rated “BBB” by Standard & Poor’s and Fitch Ratings, were substantially oversubscribed for by investors, resulting in a favorable all-in net interest rate of 4.599%.
 
The $151.9 million VTIB Loan, which bears interest at 3.33%, is secured solely by a subordinate lien on CTS net revenues and is not backed by the City’s full faith and credit or other resources." 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 13, 2018, 11:23:34 PM
For the project alone (which includes R/W acquisition, engineering, construction) it cost $345.2 million. For interest, debt service, and other fees, that only costs the city an additional $34.9 million. They also owe $19.3 million for refinancing of Chesapeake Expressway bonds. In total, the entire package costs $399.4 million.
As for who funded what, state and local funds paid $88.9 million, while bonds and loans paid for the other $310.4 million.
In total, for Dominion Blvd alone, the city owes back $345.3 million (which is similar to the costs of construction alone, thanks to public funding picking up the rest), which is collected in tolls.

Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.
Those are upfront costs of the project funding package.  That does not include the bond interest costs over the next 34 years.  Principal plus interest (need to find the rate but we can assume not less than 5%) will make that at least 2.5 times that of the project funding package.
Slide 15 at http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistance/UCI/July2012/Innovative_Project_Financing_Chesapeake_Presentation_Sorey_7-12-12.pdf suggests one of the large loans for the Dominion Blvd project was 3.3%

That is the VTIB Loan.  We need to find the interest rate for the Senior Toll Revenue Bonds, they are probably higher given that VTIB is a government entity.

At that rate over 34 years the interest will be 67% of the principal.

One million dollar loan would cost a total of $1,671,956.


If you figure the VTIB loan is $151.9 million, 3.3% of that is $5,012,700 per year. As for the Senior Toll Revenue Bonds, that's 4.59%, or $7,275,150 per year. That's all about $12,287,850 million per year in repayments.

Total costs to repay specifically on Dominion Blvd would be around $763,086,900 (probably some more if you consider operation and maintenance costs) in 34 years, and that includes yearly interest payments, plus upfront costs of $345.3 million.

If you consider 4% on the expressway (an estimate), that could be near $300 million total for that facility.

I guess if you do consider all these factors, the 2051 termination date seems reasonable. I still don't understand why these facilities were tolled to begin with - the claim is that there wasn't enough transportation funding available, however it seems they've been throwing out projects like candy, $500 million there, $3 billion there, etc... I don't understand why these projects south I-64 were cut off from any major transportation funding, when it clearly could've been funded.

I find it funny how the state was going to invest hundreds of millions into a 460 toll road for 10,000 VPD, and when the state lost $250 million, they seemed to recover pretty fine. Dominion Blvd & 168, which if were not tolled, would carry almost up to 40,000 VPD in near future years, and would've been a way better investment.

The way transportation money is being allocated doesn't make any sense. Makes me wonder sometimes how North Carolina only has 2 tolls roads, one costing near a billion, and the other over 2 billion, and have low tolls for 20 mile distances. Everything else is publicly funded there.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 13, 2018, 11:44:49 PM
The City of Chesapeake wanted these projects built, took them on as local projects, designed them as they pleased within basic VDOT standards, and funded them as they pleased.  BTW the Oak Grove Connector and the Great Bridge Bypass were built by the state as toll-free highways, as was relocated US-17 south of Dominion Blvd.

Go to an amortization program, there are many online.

$152 million at 4.6% for 34 years   = $300,892,552
$151 million at 3.33% for 34 years = $252,465,394

North Carolina is a very high taxed state, figure about 30 to 40% more each for state general taxes, income taxes, local taxes and road user taxes.  Not somewhere I want to live.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 13, 2018, 11:57:32 PM
The City of Chesapeake wanted these projects built, took them on as local projects, designed them as they pleased within basic VDOT standards, and funded them as they pleased.  BTW the Oak Grove Connector and the Great Bridge Bypass were built by the state as toll-free highways, as was relocated US-17 south of Dominion Blvd.

Go to an amortization program, there are many online.

$152 million at 4.6% for 34 years   = $300,892,552
$151 million at 3.33% for 34 years = $252,465,394

North Carolina is a very high taxed state, figure about 30 to 40% more each for state general taxes, income taxes, local taxes and road user taxes.  Pick your poison.
Chesapeake wanted both projects, yes, however they've been competing for state funding for 15+ years before each of them came from drawing board to pavement.

I would rather pay slightly more in taxes and know I'm getting a good investment out of them. I don't agree with toll roads, never have, and never will. If the money was spent properly, a lot of these toll road projects could be avoided. I would support a tax increase in Virginia, especially on fuel, if I knew I was going to get a good investment, one seen down in North Carolina. Toll roads aren't a good investment, and for a daily user, that adds up to hundreds of dollars wasted per year. In rural areas (not southern Chesapeake, but in the middle of nowhere rural) like many of the turnpikes are, those make more sense, there's not a lot of daily users in those areas. If a Washington D.C. bypass was ever built, I could see a $5-10 toll on a 50+ mile road like that, and for good reason. In urban areas where there's a lot of daily users however, one has to invest hundreds per year just to commute, or sit through traffic on shunpiking routes.

At least these aren't as bad as the Downtown Tunnel joke.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 14, 2018, 12:38:53 AM
I wouldn't mind paying slightly more in taxes, but have no interest in the tax gouging in some states.  Toll road financing is used in many places around the country and world, and when the demand is high they are a good investment.  The tolls in Chesapeake are low for the regular users.  I feel sympathy for the people living in the states with border-to-border turnpikes, now there is a situation were tolling may be excessive especially where these highway were built 50+ years ago.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 14, 2018, 06:07:56 AM
The City of Chesapeake wanted these projects built, took them on as local projects, designed them as they pleased within basic VDOT standards, and funded them as they pleased.  BTW the Oak Grove Connector and the Great Bridge Bypass were built by the state as toll-free highways, as was relocated US-17 south of Dominion Blvd.

Go to an amortization program, there are many online.

$152 million at 4.6% for 34 years   = $300,892,552
$151 million at 3.33% for 34 years = $252,465,394

North Carolina is a very high taxed state, figure about 30 to 40% more each for state general taxes, income taxes, local taxes and road user taxes.  Pick your poison.
Chesapeake wanted both projects, yes, however they've been competing for state funding for 15+ years before each of them came from drawing board to pavement.

I would rather pay slightly more in taxes and know I'm getting a good investment out of them. I don't agree with toll roads, never have, and never will. If the money was spent properly, a lot of these toll road projects could be avoided. I would support a tax increase in Virginia, especially on fuel, if I knew I was going to get a good investment, one seen down in North Carolina. Toll roads aren't a good investment, and for a daily user, that adds up to hundreds of dollars wasted per year. In rural areas (not southern Chesapeake, but in the middle of nowhere rural) like many of the turnpikes are, those make more sense, there's not a lot of daily users in those areas. If a Washington D.C. bypass was ever built, I could see a $5-10 toll on a 50+ mile road like that, and for good reason. In urban areas where there's a lot of daily users however, one has to invest hundreds per year just to commute, or sit through traffic on shunpiking routes.

At least these aren't as bad as the Downtown Tunnel joke.

A $5 toll on a 50 mile road around DC would be a joke.  Modern building costs in a very built-up area would actually probably have tolls more in the $25-$30 range for that entire route.

The bad thing about gas taxes is that there are so many projects that are needed, that money would be going to projects throughout the entire state.  Tolls tend to remain dedicated to one road (not always, as numerous examples would show), but it does allow a road to be built faster.  Between the two, if a certain area wanted a road badly, tolls are still the way to go. Someone on the other end of the state wouldn't want their taxes raised for a road they're probably never going to use.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 14, 2018, 05:45:46 PM
I wouldn't mind paying slightly more in taxes, but have no interest in the tax gouging in some states.  Toll road financing is used in many places around the country and world, and when the demand is high they are a good investment.  The tolls in Chesapeake are low for the regular users.  I feel sympathy for the people living in the states with border-to-border turnpikes, now there is a situation were tolling may be excessive especially where these highway were built 50+ years ago.
Dominion Blvd gets good demand, and especially because the shunpiking routes are longer, it is used by most that used it before. The toll on Dominion Blvd is cheap now, but in the next 10 years, it will be way higher. The issue with the Expressway is most stick to Battlefield, even with low .75 cent tolls for locals. I travel Battlefield Blvd daily, and witness all the traffic myself. When entering the Expressway at Hillcrest Pkwy (Exit 8) going north, I rarely see cars coming over the overpass from the toll road, all them are entering at Hillcrest Pkwy from Battlefield Blvd. Many would rather pay $0.00 a day rather than $1.50 a day for a commute, when the option is available. One thing I believe the city could do is complete a full diamond interchange at Exit 5, and have a ramp toll. That would allow commuters from Indian Creek Rd, etc. to have the option to use the toll road, because currently they are locked to Battlefield Blvd. Another incentive to draw more traffic is to raise the speed limit to 65 MPH. Currently, most of Battlefield Blvd is 50, some areas 55 MPH. The speed is the same on Expressway. If it was 15-20 MPH faster, it would offer an overall faster ride. They wanted to do that three years ago, however the city complained a study would have to be done, and instead lowered the north part of Battlefield Blvd from 55 to 45 MPH.

The turnpikes have always been tolled from the beginning, and were intended to be tolled indefinitely. States with them also benefit from them, as revenue from them can turn toward other transportation improvements in the state. In Indiana, the state built over 90 continuous miles of new-location Interstate 69 in 2012 and 2016, and are currently upgrading over 30+ miles of arterial road to interstate standards. A lot of the funding, I believe over $1 billion came from revenue on the Indiana Toll Road. The original plan was to toll I-69 as a Southern Turnpike, however it was not necessary, and all 90+ miles are free to travel on.

The City of Chesapeake wanted these projects built, took them on as local projects, designed them as they pleased within basic VDOT standards, and funded them as they pleased.  BTW the Oak Grove Connector and the Great Bridge Bypass were built by the state as toll-free highways, as was relocated US-17 south of Dominion Blvd.

Go to an amortization program, there are many online.

$152 million at 4.6% for 34 years   = $300,892,552
$151 million at 3.33% for 34 years = $252,465,394

North Carolina is a very high taxed state, figure about 30 to 40% more each for state general taxes, income taxes, local taxes and road user taxes.  Pick your poison.
Chesapeake wanted both projects, yes, however they've been competing for state funding for 15+ years before each of them came from drawing board to pavement.

I would rather pay slightly more in taxes and know I'm getting a good investment out of them. I don't agree with toll roads, never have, and never will. If the money was spent properly, a lot of these toll road projects could be avoided. I would support a tax increase in Virginia, especially on fuel, if I knew I was going to get a good investment, one seen down in North Carolina. Toll roads aren't a good investment, and for a daily user, that adds up to hundreds of dollars wasted per year. In rural areas (not southern Chesapeake, but in the middle of nowhere rural) like many of the turnpikes are, those make more sense, there's not a lot of daily users in those areas. If a Washington D.C. bypass was ever built, I could see a $5-10 toll on a 50+ mile road like that, and for good reason. In urban areas where there's a lot of daily users however, one has to invest hundreds per year just to commute, or sit through traffic on shunpiking routes.

At least these aren't as bad as the Downtown Tunnel joke.

A $5 toll on a 50 mile road around DC would be a joke.  Modern building costs in a very built-up area would actually probably have tolls more in the $25-$30 range for that entire route.

The bad thing about gas taxes is that there are so many projects that are needed, that money would be going to projects throughout the entire state.  Tolls tend to remain dedicated to one road (not always, as numerous examples would show), but it does allow a road to be built faster.  Between the two, if a certain area wanted a road badly, tolls are still the way to go. Someone on the other end of the state wouldn't want their taxes raised for a road they're probably never going to use.
Hampton Roads uses taxes collected in the area, along with local funding to fund projects here. Only Smart Scale projects use taxes from other parts of the state, and there's been hundreds of millions contributed by HRTAC and local taxes.

As for a toll road around DC, I suppose $15-20, but not $25-30. Notice I said bypass, not through developed areas. DC is surrounded by rural land on both sides, more so on the west side. This wouldn't be no suburban 50 mile road, it would be road around 100 miles long, rural, and completely avoid DC and it's sprawl outside it for long-distance travelers. 70 MPH, six lanes, interchanges at major access points only, similar to a turnpike. Think like the Austin Bypass (SH 130) toll road in Texas, completely avoids Downtown Austin which I-35 goes through, 90 miles long, and I believe it costs around $18-20 to travel the entire length. That's the road famous for its 85 MPH speed limit.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 14, 2018, 06:06:19 PM
"The turnpikes have always been tolled from the beginning, and were intended to be tolled indefinitely."

That is really not true, at least that was not stated in the beginning, and some had declared that they would go toll-free after the bonds were paid off.

My point was that this is a far more aggressive tolling scheme than what you were complaining about, to have that many miles of tollroad that now are the principal Interstate highway in the state connecting the biggest metro areas.  Your point that the revenue can be moved to other parts of the state just means that the tollroad users are massively subsidizing roads in other parts of the state, and providing them with toll-free highways in the Indiana case you offered.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 14, 2018, 06:33:12 PM
"The turnpikes have always been tolled from the beginning, and were intended to be tolled indefinitely."

That is really not true, at least that was not stated in the beginning, and some had declared that they would go toll-free after the bonds were paid off.

My point was that this is a far more aggressive tolling scheme than what you were complaining about, to have that many miles of tollroad that now are the principal Interstate highway in the state connecting the biggest metro areas.  Your point that the revenue can be moved to other parts of the state just means that the tollroad users are massively subsidizing roads in other parts of the state, and providing them with toll-free highways in the Indiana case you offered.
They might be the principal Interstate Highway, however it has always been there from the beginning. For example, much of I-95 is tolled up north connecting major cities such as Baltimore, New York City, Boston, etc. and it has always been.

Edit - I will agree though, some turnpikes have outrageous pricing these days even after paid off, especially up northeast. One's like Indiana though, it costs $11.00 to travel 157 miles through a relatively rural area, and is for passing through traffic. Also, according to the Indiana Toll Road's website, they've also spent hundreds of millions of toll dollars on replacing aging travel plazas, repaving 50 miles, replacing bridges, etc. I guess the extra revenue goes toward other state projects, or there could have also been a special agreement between I-69 and Indiana Toll Road, similar to Chesapeake Expressway and Dominion Boulevard. Still, Indiana still benefited from having a pre-existing turnpike, or else I-69 would've been a turnpike itself.

As for the Indiana toll example, that road is a mainly rural route that carries traffic through Indiana, not local or state traffic. It has always been tolled from the start. The road is paid off, and instead of removing the tolls, the state knows that it will continue to get lots of traffic, and chose to keep the tolls to act as a revenue generator for state transportation projects. It may not be right, but it's definitely smart for the state. Most of these travelers don't plan on doing much in Indiana, so the state tolls them to come through.

As for the point of declaring toll roads would go free once paid off, and sharing revenue between one toll road and another, a perfect example is in Chesapeake. The expressway was originally supposed to only be tolled for 10-15 years (as per what officials told locals back in the 90s), then it was 2032, now it's 2051. It just keeps on getting longer and longer. The expressway will actually be paid fully off in 2032 (or sooner), but then its revenue collected after that will go fully to help pay off another road, Dominion Blvd.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 14, 2018, 07:45:06 PM
sprjus it sounds like you're advocating for this 301 bypass to have a speed limit of 85 mph also. Maybe they'll number it I-366?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 14, 2018, 08:52:53 PM
sprjus it sounds like you're advocating for this 301 bypass to have a speed limit of 85 mph also. Maybe they'll number it I-366?
Maybe haha. The mention about the speed limit was just a one-off statement, not trying to suggest anything. Don't worry, still some people will do 85 MPH.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 14, 2018, 10:23:59 PM
My point was that this is a far more aggressive tolling scheme than what you were complaining about, to have that many miles of tollroad that now are the principal Interstate highway in the state connecting the biggest metro areas.  Your point that the revenue can be moved to other parts of the state just means that the tollroad users are massively subsidizing roads in other parts of the state, and providing them with toll-free highways in the Indiana case you offered.
They might be the principal Interstate Highway, however it has always been there from the beginning. For example, much of I-95 is tolled up north connecting major cities such as Baltimore, New York City, Boston, etc. and it has always been.

So what?  It's not like the turnpikes are the only toll roads, there are at least 20 major tunnels and bridges that are tolled from Baltimore to Wilmington to Philadelphia to New York.

As for the Indiana toll example, that road is a mainly rural route that carries traffic through Indiana, not local or state traffic. It has always been tolled from the start. The road is paid off, and instead of removing the tolls, the state knows that it will continue to get lots of traffic, and chose to keep the tolls to act as a revenue generator for state transportation projects. It may not be right, but it's definitely smart for the state. Most of these travelers don't plan on doing much in Indiana, so the state tolls them to come through.

The over one million people living in Northwest Indiana and South Bend area would disagree with that.  While Chicagoland is in Illinois it connects to the Indiana Tollroad and generates a huge amount of local traffic for the tollroad, which comes right to the border of Chicago.  The Indiana Tollroad is loaded with local traffic on its western half.

As for the point of declaring toll roads would go free once paid off, and sharing revenue between one toll road and another, a perfect example is in Chesapeake. The expressway was originally supposed to only be tolled for 10-15 years (as per what officials told locals back in the 90s), then it was 2032, now it's 2051. It just keeps on getting longer and longer. The expressway will actually be paid fully off in 2032 (or sooner), but then its revenue collected after that will go fully to help pay off another road, Dominion Blvd.

I have a major well-researched website article on the VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway and I do not recall that 10-15 year claim.  The obvious reason for the longer time now is the aforementioned Chesapeake Transportation System which includes the Chesapeake Expressway and the Dominion Blvd. freeway and river bridge.

Virginia is one of the few states that has conducted major detollings, although major expansion projects have retolled three of them.  Still toll-free is HRBT, US-17 James River Bridge, VA Beach Expwy., Norris Bridge and Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike.  Expanded HRBT will have HOT lanes, but 2 general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on December 15, 2018, 01:55:21 PM
My point was that this is a far more aggressive tolling scheme than what you were complaining about, to have that many miles of tollroad that now are the principal Interstate highway in the state connecting the biggest metro areas.  Your point that the revenue can be moved to other parts of the state just means that the tollroad users are massively subsidizing roads in other parts of the state, and providing them with toll-free highways in the Indiana case you offered.
They might be the principal Interstate Highway, however it has always been there from the beginning. For example, much of I-95 is tolled up north connecting major cities such as Baltimore, New York City, Boston, etc. and it has always been.

So what?  It's not like the turnpikes are the only toll roads, there are at least 20 major tunnels and bridges that are tolled from Baltimore to Wilmington to Philadelphia to New York.
My point is that I-95 is a principal highway connecting major cities, and is a toll road in many locations, as you mentioned, bridges, tunnels, etc.

As for the Indiana toll example, that road is a mainly rural route that carries traffic through Indiana, not local or state traffic. It has always been tolled from the start. The road is paid off, and instead of removing the tolls, the state knows that it will continue to get lots of traffic, and chose to keep the tolls to act as a revenue generator for state transportation projects. It may not be right, but it's definitely smart for the state. Most of these travelers don't plan on doing much in Indiana, so the state tolls them to come through.
The over one million people living in Northwest Indiana and South Bend area would disagree with that.  While Chicagoland is in Illinois it connects to the Indiana Tollroad and generates a huge amount of local traffic for the tollroad, which comes right to the border of Chicago.  The Indiana Tollroad is loaded with local traffic on its western half.
Agreed, those two portions of the toll road most likely have local traffic, but the toll is much lower as they are not traveling all 157 miles. Also, the western part also has I-65 and I-94/80 as non-tolled freeways, and South Bend has U.S. 31 and U.S. 20 as non-tolled freeways, U.S. 30 is a continuous link to I-94 in Michigan as well.

As for the point of declaring toll roads would go free once paid off, and sharing revenue between one toll road and another, a perfect example is in Chesapeake. The expressway was originally supposed to only be tolled for 10-15 years (as per what officials told locals back in the 90s), then it was 2032, now it's 2051. It just keeps on getting longer and longer. The expressway will actually be paid fully off in 2032 (or sooner), but then its revenue collected after that will go fully to help pay off another road, Dominion Blvd.

I have a major well-researched website article on the VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway and I do not recall that 10-15 year claim.  The obvious reason for the longer time now is the aforementioned Chesapeake Transportation System which includes the Chesapeake Expressway and the Dominion Blvd. freeway and river bridge.
I've been told by locals who lived here before and while the thing was being built, they were told the tolls would only be in effect for 10-15 years, then they would be removed. Them extending the toll duration may be apart of the "CTS" but it's also a way to use tolls on the Expressway to pay off Dominion. They may be branded as one facility, however they are two different routes and serve different purposes.

Virginia is one of the few states that has conducted major detollings, although major expansion projects have retolled three of them.  Still toll-free is HRBT, US-17 James River Bridge, VA Beach Expwy., Norris Bridge and Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike.  Expanded HRBT will have HOT lanes, but 2 general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.
Agreed, and it's nice they've been removed. Most of the current toll roads however, won't be untolled after paid off, the money will just flow into private company's pockets or pay for other things (such as the Dulles Toll Road in North Virginia paying for the Metro extension, not the actual road which is already paid off).

The retolling implemented on the Downtown Tunnel was something that never should've happen - again, the tolls on the Downtown Tunnel are paying for a completely different project, the only reason it's tolled is because it has more traffic than the Midtown Tunnel. There were no major improvements done to the Downtown Tunnel that warrants 50 years of $2-3 tolling and dividing two cities apart.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 15, 2018, 06:13:33 PM
I have a major well-researched website article on the VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway and I do not recall that 10-15 year claim.  The obvious reason for the longer time now is the aforementioned Chesapeake Transportation System which includes the Chesapeake Expressway and the Dominion Blvd. freeway and river bridge.
I've been told by locals who lived here before and while the thing was being built, they were told the tolls would only be in effect for 10-15 years, then they would be removed. Them extending the toll duration may be apart of the "CTS" but it's also a way to use tolls on the Expressway to pay off Dominion. They may be branded as one facility, however they are two different routes and serve different purposes.

So?  Pooled toll facilities are common around the country, rather than have every toll road stand alone they are their own toll system.  Maryland MdTA has 8 toll facilities and they all serve different routes and serve different purposes.  Illinois ISTHA has 4 toll facilities and they all serve different routes and serve different purposes.   There are arguments that can be made either way.

The retolling implemented on the Downtown Tunnel was something that never should've happen - again, the tolls on the Downtown Tunnel are paying for a completely different project, the only reason it's tolled is because it has more traffic than the Midtown Tunnel. There were no major improvements done to the Downtown Tunnel that warrants 50 years of $2-3 tolling and dividing two cities apart.

The current EZPass tolls are $1.79 offpeak and $2.20 peak, and low income people get a major subsidy.  Both Downtown Tunnels received major renovations in the ERT Tunnels project including structural, lighting, ventilation, electrical, plumbing and electronic, it had been almost 30 years since the second was built and the original was rehabbed.

The main reason it was tolled is because the ERT Tunnels project cost $1.4 billion in construction, no federal funding was involved, and a major traffic imbalance would have occured if the Midtown Tunnel was tolled and the Downtown Tunnel was not tolled.  The project also provided the MLK Freeway extension which provides a relief route for the Downtown Tunnel.

Given the amount of military presence in the area, the federal government should IMO provide special funding outside of normal FHWA allocations for these tunnel projects of at least 50%, but they don't.

I was in agreement with the detollings in the 1970s and 1980s, for economic reasons, and because I thought that future Interstate tunnel projects would get 90% FHWA funding, like did with 64, 264 and 664.  VA-164 and the Midtown Tunnel could have become I-164.  Since now they get nothing, it looks like some retollings are needed to finance these projects, which are -far- more expensive to construct today than they were back then (the parallel Downtown Tunnel cost $130 million).

Baltimore Harbor has never had a detolling, and they got 90% FHWA funding to build the I-95 Fort McHenry Tunnel and also an exception so that they could charge tolls, it has been 33 years and they apparently will never detoll the FMHT, of course that would also create a major traffic imbalance if tolls remained on the other 2 crossings.  But they have 16 lanes on 3 Interstate crossings and with those 3 they have not yet had a serious traffic bottleneck.

Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: epzik8 on December 17, 2018, 09:27:21 PM
I was against the Middletown bypass before, but it was just recently added to Google Maps, so I guess it opened, and now I actually think it’s really appealing.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 17, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
I was against the Middletown bypass before, but it was just recently added to Google Maps, so I guess it opened, and now I actually think it’s really appealing.

It actually opens on New Year's Day, but Google is being Google.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 17, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
I was against the Middletown bypass before, but it was just recently added to Google Maps, so I guess it opened, and now I actually think it’s really appealing.
Why were you against it? Have you not seen middletown traffic?


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on December 17, 2018, 10:09:00 PM
I was against the Middletown bypass before, but it was just recently added to Google Maps, so I guess it opened, and now I actually think it’s really appealing.
Why were you against it? Have you not seen middletown traffic?

I first drove US-301 from the D.C. area to northern Delaware in 1972.  It has all been 4-laned in Maryland by then.  It dropped to 2 lanes at the Delaware border, and then the preferred route was the 2-lane DE-299 to US-13 at Odessa, and then US-13 to the Wilmington area and I-295.

There was an obvious need for a 4-lane connector even back then.  At that point it probably would have been a relocation to bypass Middletown and Odessa and connect to US-13 near Odessa.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on December 19, 2018, 08:22:39 AM
From https://blogs.deldot.gov/2018/12/14/outline-anticipated-construction-schedule-associated-lane-closures-work-us-301-mainline-project-next-week-24/

Quote
The new SR 1 northbound on-ramp will be opening to traffic at 5:00 a.m. on Tuesday, December 18, 2018. New directional signs will direct traffic to access the on-ramp just south of Biddles Toll Plaza at Port Penn Road. Once the new on-ramp has opened, the existing on-ramp will permanently close.

Does this mean the Scott Run [free] connector is now closed?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 19, 2018, 09:17:28 AM
From https://blogs.deldot.gov/2018/12/14/outline-anticipated-construction-schedule-associated-lane-closures-work-us-301-mainline-project-next-week-24/

Quote
The new SR 1 northbound on-ramp will be opening to traffic at 5:00 a.m. on Tuesday, December 18, 2018. New directional signs will direct traffic to access the on-ramp just south of Biddles Toll Plaza at Port Penn Road. Once the new on-ramp has opened, the existing on-ramp will permanently close.

Does this mean the Scott Run [free] connector is now closed?

ixnay
A new free ramp will be opening on December 20: https://deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7441
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 19, 2018, 10:11:41 AM
Wait, did it open yesterday or will it open tomorrow?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 19, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
Wait, did it open yesterday or will it open tomorrow?
The one I posted is titled as an update so I'm interpreting it as opening tomorrow.  I very rarely go up that way during the week though so I'm not sure.  Google traffic this morning still showed some backups at the "old" free ramp from US-13 to DE-1 North.

Also the one I posted has a publish date of yesterday morning from the DelDOT US-301 project website: https://deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 23, 2018, 10:17:35 PM
Just drove up DE-1 around 10am today and noticed three interesting things:

1. The signs for DE-1 Exit 142, heading northbound, have the US-13 and "To US-301" greened out. https://goo.gl/maps/Mj5jT694Jb32

2. The signage denoting the exit from DE-1 southbound to US-301 southbound is installed and has an exit tab.  There's a black cover over the signage though, so no info on what's on them.

3. There were portable VMSes denoting that the new US-13 to DE-1 northbound ramp in the area of the Biddles Corner toll plaza would be open today, but around 10am, traffic was still directed onto the old ramp from US-13 to DE-1 northbound.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on December 23, 2018, 10:49:18 PM
Just drove up DE-1 around 10am today and noticed three interesting things:

1. The signs for DE-1 Exit 142, heading northbound, have the US-13 and "To US-301" greened out. https://goo.gl/maps/Mj5jT694Jb32
That doesn't make sense. How do they expect northbound traffic to reach US 301? U-turning at DE 72?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 23, 2018, 11:05:58 PM
Just drove up DE-1 around 10am today and noticed three interesting things:

1. The signs for DE-1 Exit 142, heading northbound, have the US-13 and "To US-301" greened out. https://goo.gl/maps/Mj5jT694Jb32
That doesn't make sense. How do they expect northbound traffic to reach US 301? U-turning at DE 72?
Consider US-301's destinations.  Traffic to central and southern Middletown is better served by taking DE-299 WB (Exit 136) and traffic to northern Middletown is better served by taking DE-896 NB to DE-71 SB (remember that DE-896 NB between DE-1 and DE-71 is heading predominately west).

Any traffic headed to the eastern shore of Maryland or the Bay Bridge from the south is much better off taking the two lane local roads from their area (e.g. from Dover, I'd just take DE-8 WB to US-301 SB to the Bay Bridge...if I wanted to go to Chestertown I'd take DE-6 WB to MD-291 WB).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 24, 2018, 12:11:15 AM
Just drove up DE-1 around 10am today and noticed three interesting things:

1. The signs for DE-1 Exit 142, heading northbound, have the US-13 and "To US-301" greened out. https://goo.gl/maps/Mj5jT694Jb32
That doesn't make sense. How do they expect northbound traffic to reach US 301? U-turning at DE 72?
I would expect the default to go back to DE 299, but something ought to be signed. It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard, and for a US highway terminus. At the very least build out 142 so that traffic can U-turn!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 24, 2018, 07:50:38 AM
Just drove up DE-1 around 10am today and noticed three interesting things:

1. The signs for DE-1 Exit 142, heading northbound, have the US-13 and "To US-301" greened out. https://goo.gl/maps/Mj5jT694Jb32
That doesn't make sense. How do they expect northbound traffic to reach US 301? U-turning at DE 72?
I would expect the default to go back to DE 299, but something ought to be signed. It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard, and for a US highway terminus. At the very least build out 142 so that traffic can U-turn!
Access to US-113 isn't signed from DE-1 NB either, and US-113 NB terminates at DE-1 as well.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on December 24, 2018, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: Alps
It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard

In my experience, FHWA only gets picky on this when it's an Interstate.  But even then they've granted waivers...I-494/US 169 for example.

Where is it shown in the MUTCD?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on December 24, 2018, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: Alps
It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard

In my experience, FHWA only gets picky on this when it's an Interstate.  But even then they've granted waivers...I-494/US 169 for example.

Where is it shown in the MUTCD?
You're right, it makes no sense to be in the MUTCD. FHWA standard, then.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 24, 2018, 06:40:16 PM
Hello, Happy Holidays, I just went for a drive & took pics of the new SR1 Ramp they opened. (Some are blurry sorry) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181224/5d5a6cca2ac72901a75c9a5e970e8d9a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181224/0f6f326d8256852af1b6c2a6f480292d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181224/0187178135894c34a6109653d99f65c6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181224/290e131be0a2c65daeca12e73f289da8.jpg)

Delaware did a pretty good job with this, Nice smooth merge, Easy directions. Cant wait for the whole thing to open.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on December 24, 2018, 11:49:54 PM
Is the ramp currently striped for one lane even after it merges with the last bit of NB 301 all the way onto DE 1?

Also, what does that sign between the no left turn and no u-turn signs say in the first picture? Something about the separation?

Can't wait to drive this next week!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on December 25, 2018, 12:07:44 AM
Is the ramp currently striped for one lane even after it merges with the last bit of NB 301 all the way onto DE 1?

Also, what does that sign between the no left turn and no u-turn signs say in the first picture? Something about the separation?

Can't wait to drive this next week!
I believe it does merge into one lane, But I am not sure, the signs are for the lanes going straight , telling them not to turn onto the ramp or make a UTurn.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on December 25, 2018, 05:54:49 AM
Quote from: Alps
It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard

In my experience, FHWA only gets picky on this when it's an Interstate.  But even then they've granted waivers...I-494/US 169 for example.

Where is it shown in the MUTCD?

Where at the I-494/U.S. 169 interchange is this evident?  I'd like to see it on GSV.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on December 25, 2018, 07:35:09 AM
Quote from: Alps
It's weird that they wouldn't have built ramps accommodating this movement at a new freeway to freeway interchange, per MUTCD/FHWA standard

In my experience, FHWA only gets picky on this when it's an Interstate.  But even then they've granted waivers...I-494/US 169 for example.

Where is it shown in the MUTCD?

Where at the I-494/U.S. 169 interchange is this evident?  I'd like to see it on GSV.
Where is what evident? That there aren't full connections?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 26, 2018, 01:45:34 PM
Got a sneak preview of a bit of one of the exit signs from DE-1 SB to US-301 SB today (thanks to a partially uncovered section of the sign).  It looks like this will be Exit 147 off DE-1 and the control city for US-301 is Annapolis.

Also, there was a new toll plaza sign 1/2 mile out from the DE-1 Biddles Corner toll plaza (near the canal), with APL style arrows and a yellow backed "Pay Toll 1/2 Mile" in the upper right corner.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 29, 2018, 02:51:36 AM
Google Maps has officially added the new roadway.  It’s currently marked in red as closed until January 5th, but it is now on there. However, existing 301 markers have not been removed from the old route, including the 896 concurrency to Glasgow.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on December 29, 2018, 11:38:15 AM
Is it still on target for a Jan. 1st opening? I plan on heading that way Tuesday morning if so.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2018, 11:44:02 AM
Is it still on target for a Jan. 1st opening? I plan on heading that way Tuesday morning if so.

It is extremely unlikely staff would be working on a holiday to open a new highway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on December 29, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
Google Maps has officially added the new roadway.  It’s currently marked in red as closed until January 5th, but it is now on there. However, existing 301 markers have not been removed from the old route, including the 896 concurrency to Glasgow.
Hasn't it been on Google Maps for a while now?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: usends on December 30, 2018, 10:38:07 AM
For those of you planning to drive this new route when it opens, kindly remember US Ends .com (https://www.usends.com/301.html) in your travels  :biggrin: 
We will be happy to credit you for your photos of US 301 signage at its new endpoint/beginning point, as well as the last northbound 301 marker, and the first southbound marker.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 30, 2018, 04:13:37 PM
For those of you planning to drive this new route when it opens, kindly remember US Ends .com (https://www.usends.com/301.html) in your travels  :biggrin: 
We will be happy to credit you for your photos of US 301 signage at its new endpoint/beginning point, as well as the last northbound 301 marker, and the first southbound marker.
I am hoping to make a video of my trip as soon as I find out it's opening! (if it is Tuesday, I'll just make the trip then, if not then I'll make the trip next weekend....it's only about a 30 minute drive for me to the northern terminus)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on December 31, 2018, 01:16:06 PM
Just contacted DelDOT's public information line and it appears that it will be opening after January 1, they are working on final preparations.  Not surprising since it looked like the ramp from DE-1 SB to US-301 SB needed some more work before opening when I saw it on Wednesday.  I'm hoping it will be within the coming days though!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 04, 2019, 04:53:48 PM
Someone on OSM marked it open and someone else added exit numbers that weren't on the map before. Has it actually opened or are some people jumping the gun?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 04, 2019, 05:02:46 PM
According to Wikipedia (I know, not the most reliable site), it claims the exits will have mileage-based numbered exits. Is this accurate?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on January 04, 2019, 05:14:23 PM
^^ There's been no new news on the opening since last week, when the Middletown paper noted there was not yet an opening date.  DelDOT has posted a construction and lane closure schedule (https://blogs.deldot.gov/2019/01/04/outline-anticipated-construction-schedule-us-301-mainline-project-january-5-2019-january-11-2019/) for next week...and while it doesn't explicitly mention a roadway opening, the continuation of construction suggests it won't happen next week.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 04, 2019, 05:15:04 PM
According to Wikipedia (I know, not the most reliable site), it claims the exits will have mileage-based numbered exits. Is this accurate?
I don't know myself, but judging by this picture on https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/01/mayor-says-middletown-continue-prosper-2019/2362166002/, it shows the first exit in Delaware as "Exit 2" and is indeed 2 miles from the state line. I would say yes.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/11/16/PWIL/f65666aa-5384-4ce4-8737-7dca5a7d7289-111618_WIL_NAVIGATING_TOLL_VIOLATIONS_JC0047.jpg?width=540&height=&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 07, 2019, 01:10:16 PM
Latest update: "We missed our completion date, and we're looking at the weather to pick a new one, but it definitely will not be within the next week or this coming weekend."
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 09, 2019, 12:03:08 AM
Latest update: "We missed our completion date, and we're looking at the weather to pick a new one, but it definitely will not be within the next week or this coming weekend."

As much as I wanted to drive it this coming Saturday, it certainly makes it easier to get new miles if I can avoid it. Not a ton I can get along that corridor that's remotely fast.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 09, 2019, 06:09:33 AM
Latest update: "We missed our completion date, and we're looking at the weather to pick a new one, but it definitely will not be within the next week or this coming weekend."

Got a link?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 09, 2019, 08:10:49 AM
Latest update: "We missed our completion date, and we're looking at the weather to pick a new one, but it definitely will not be within the next week or this coming weekend."

Got a link?

ixnay
That sounds to me like an email.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 09, 2019, 08:35:59 AM
Latest update: "We missed our completion date, and we're looking at the weather to pick a new one, but it definitely will not be within the next week or this coming weekend."

Got a link?

ixnay
That sounds to me like an email.
Phone paraphrase.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 09, 2019, 11:05:44 AM
It's opening tomorrow: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/09/u-s-301-mainline-set-open-thursday-after-morning-rush-hour/2523420002/

I'm going to try to head up there on Saturday morning to make a video if I can.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 09, 2019, 11:39:45 AM
It's opening tomorrow: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/09/u-s-301-mainline-set-open-thursday-after-morning-rush-hour/2523420002/

I'm going to try to head up there on Saturday morning to make a video if I can.

Evidently DelDOT predicts openings the same way Windows predicts the time file copying takes. :spin:
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 09, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
It's opening tomorrow: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/09/u-s-301-mainline-set-open-thursday-after-morning-rush-hour/2523420002/

I'm going to try to head up there on Saturday morning to make a video if I can.

Evidently DelDOT predicts openings the same way Windows predicts the time file copying takes. :spin:
Thats not nice , windows fixed that problem years ago.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2019, 12:15:16 PM
Within the article:

Quote
Truck tolls are expected to account for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

How?  Is there that much trucking traffic in that region?  The articles talk mainly about all the residential growth in the area, but is completely silent when it comes to the vehicles that are supposed to be the primary source of revenues!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 09, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
Within the article:

Quote
Truck tolls are expected to account for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

How?  Is there that much trucking traffic in that region?  The articles talk mainly about all the residential growth in the area, but is completely silent when it comes to the vehicles that are supposed to be the primary source of revenues!
Page 57 - PDF Page 63 (if you look under the US-301 archived documents on the DelDOT site, you can find these under "Traffic and Revenue Reports" (https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/revenue_reports.shtml)): https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pdfs/US301_T_R_Report.pdf

EDIT Not only is there a lot of passenger car traffic in the Middletown region, but there's a huge boom in commercial development too (which of course comes with massive residential growth).  They also have an Amazon warehouse that opened in Middletown a few years ago.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 09, 2019, 12:26:52 PM
Something I can't find anywhere - will the E-ZPass rate apply to out-of-state passes, or will I be hit with the video toll rate when I drive this thing on Saturday?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 09, 2019, 12:31:35 PM
Something I can't find anywhere - will the E-ZPass rate apply to out-of-state passes, or will I be hit with the video toll rate when I drive this thing on Saturday?
I know DelDOT doesn't have separate charges for out of state E-ZPass on DE-1 (and even applies discounts for shorter trips on DE-1), you just wouldn't qualify for their frequent users program (I have a PA E-ZPass and drive on DE-1 all the time).  So I'd guess US-301 would be the same way.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on January 09, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
It's opening tomorrow: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/09/u-s-301-mainline-set-open-thursday-after-morning-rush-hour/2523420002/

I'm going to try to head up there on Saturday morning to make a video if I can.

Maybe consider waiting for a weekend where it's not expected to snow? 😊
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 09, 2019, 01:08:41 PM
It's opening tomorrow: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/09/u-s-301-mainline-set-open-thursday-after-morning-rush-hour/2523420002/

I'm going to try to head up there on Saturday morning to make a video if I can.

Maybe consider waiting for a weekend where it's not expected to snow? 😊
Just checked the weather and I think it'll be okay.  The snow's not supposed to start until 4-6pm in Middletown or Dover.  It's only a 30 minute drive to it for me to the expressway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 09, 2019, 01:16:42 PM
Something I can't find anywhere - will the E-ZPass rate apply to out-of-state passes, or will I be hit with the video toll rate when I drive this thing on Saturday?
I know DelDOT doesn't have separate charges for out of state E-ZPass on DE-1 (and even applies discounts for shorter trips on DE-1), you just wouldn't qualify for their frequent users program (I have a PA E-ZPass and drive on DE-1 all the time).  So I'd guess US-301 would be the same way.

Correct.  He's trying to read into info that's not there.  There's simply going to be an EZ Pass rate and a non-EZ Pass rate.  If the rate were to differ based on residency, that would've been mentioned.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 09, 2019, 01:36:35 PM
Correct.  He's trying to read into info that's not there.  There's simply going to be an EZ Pass rate and a non-EZ Pass rate.  If the rate were to differ based on residency, that would've been mentioned.

That is what I figured, but a few states in the Northeast quietly removed out-of-state discounts. When NY first started discriminating, there was nothing clear online showing that the discount doesn't apply to non-NY accounts. Even today, you have to read a footnote to know that the E-ZPass rate doesn't apply to non-NY tags at the TBTA crossings.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 09, 2019, 04:20:48 PM
They removed the 301 banners from the BGS in the glasgow area, but, when the spur is built; isnt that considered 301 or will it be signed as 896? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190109/8b20ead736993b83e6381b6cfae6223f.jpg)


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 09, 2019, 08:28:11 PM
They removed the 301 banners from the BGS in the glasgow area, but, when the spur is built; isnt that considered 301 or will it be signed as 896? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190109/8b20ead736993b83e6381b6cfae6223f.jpg)

The response I got from DelDOT was that the spur is expected to just be signed as a long ramp: To US 301 South and To DE 896 North.

What I really find interesting is that not only did those 301 shields in Glasgow say To US 301 and the reassurance markers only refer to 896, but in the old Street View you can see "To US 301 North" pointing east on US 40. I know US 301 officially ran unsigned from Glasgow to I-295 via US 40, but was it signed recently enough to appear on those new-ish signs, and if so, why the "To"?

I disagree with covering up "To US 301 south," though. That will still probably the quickest way from there to 301, and will especially be so when the spur road is built. It also makes the "To" there actually correct.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 10, 2019, 07:55:49 AM
Within the article:

Quote
Truck tolls are expected to account for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

How?  Is there that much trucking traffic in that region?  The articles talk mainly about all the residential growth in the area, but is completely silent when it comes to the vehicles that are supposed to be the primary source of revenues!
Page 57 - PDF Page 63 (if you look under the US-301 archived documents on the DelDOT site, you can find these under "Traffic and Revenue Reports" (https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/revenue_reports.shtml)): https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pdfs/US301_T_R_Report.pdf

EDIT Not only is there a lot of passenger car traffic in the Middletown region, but there's a huge boom in commercial development too (which of course comes with massive residential growth).  They also have an Amazon warehouse that opened in Middletown a few years ago.

Enough development that DART First State launched bus service to and within Middletown/Odessa.

http://www.deldot.gov/map/index.shtml?tab=DARTBusStop

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 10, 2019, 08:15:11 AM
I disagree with covering up "To US 301 south," though. That will still probably the quickest way from there to 301, and will especially be so when the spur road is built. It also makes the "To" there actually correct.
I'd imagine that it's to alleviate confusion between the old 301 (now just 896/71) and the new 301.  Remember, most people aren't thinking of the "To" part of "To US-301" even though it is technically incorrect (for the next 45 minutes).

Within the article:

Quote
Truck tolls are expected to account for an estimated 56 percent of revenues.

How?  Is there that much trucking traffic in that region?  The articles talk mainly about all the residential growth in the area, but is completely silent when it comes to the vehicles that are supposed to be the primary source of revenues!
Page 57 - PDF Page 63 (if you look under the US-301 archived documents on the DelDOT site, you can find these under "Traffic and Revenue Reports" (https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/revenue_reports.shtml)): https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pdfs/US301_T_R_Report.pdf

EDIT Not only is there a lot of passenger car traffic in the Middletown region, but there's a huge boom in commercial development too (which of course comes with massive residential growth).  They also have an Amazon warehouse that opened in Middletown a few years ago.

Enough development that DART First State launched bus service to and within Middletown/Odessa.

http://www.deldot.gov/map/index.shtml?tab=DARTBusStop

ixnay
Also, I imagine a lot of commercial traffic headed from Philadelphia/NYC/points north and east to the Eastern Shore of Maryland (and possibly Annapolis/Baltimore/Washington as an alternate route) is heading down US-301.  The new expressway eliminates that bottleneck of Middletown (though I'd imagine they'd still be stopping there).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 10, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
Also, I imagine a lot of commercial traffic headed from Philadelphia/NYC/points north and east to the Eastern Shore of Maryland (and possibly Annapolis/Baltimore/Washington as an alternate route) is heading down US-301.  The new expressway eliminates that bottleneck of Middletown (though I'd imagine they'd still be stopping there).

This completes a nice route that is expressway grade or higher, between Washington and south, and Wilmington and north; and which bypasses the Baltimore area.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 10, 2019, 11:18:13 AM
DelDOT camera on DE 1 aimed at the new US 301 sign - looks like the tarp is about to come off
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 1995hoo on January 10, 2019, 11:46:48 AM
DelDOT camera on DE 1 aimed at the new US 301 sign - looks like the tarp is about to come off

Heh. The question is whether they're removing it or the wind is removing it whether they like it or not!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 10, 2019, 11:57:04 AM
DelDOT camera on DE 1 aimed at the new US 301 sign - looks like the tarp is about to come off

Heh. The question is whether they're removing it or the wind is removing it whether they like it or not!
The wind's pretty intense here, so I wouldn't be surprised if the wind was removing it!  I heard that DelDOT would start opening the southbound lanes first, so that could be it too.

EDIT - Looks like the sign tarp is slowly being removed.  The 301 shield was just revealed.  The News Journal has some first photos of the opening: https://www.delawareonline.com/videos/news/local/2019/01/10/u-s-301-toll-road-opens-thursday/2535646002/
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 10, 2019, 12:29:22 PM
No traffic showing on any of the new 301 cams but the one at the weigh station shows northbound traffic crawling, meaning they might be setting up the opening.

The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 10, 2019, 03:18:29 PM
No traffic showing on any of the new 301 cams but the one at the weigh station shows northbound traffic crawling, meaning they might be setting up the opening.

The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467

They've done a good job on all the signs I've seen so far.

Interestingly, one of the route markers in that video has the toll banner below the direction: "South TOLL US 301" instead of "TOLL South US 301." I think this order makes more sense, coupled with people calling it "Toll 301" akin to the "PA Turnpike XX" routes in southwest PA, or the tolled part of NC 540 and 147 which NCDOT treats as separate routes on signage (https://goo.gl/maps/GJQDbg8Epjw).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 10, 2019, 04:13:55 PM
I hope when the toll road opens, someone gets pictures of US 301's new northern terminus for usends.com. They have already updated the location of 301's new terminus.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 10, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
I hope when the toll road opens, someone gets pictures of US 301's new northern terminus for usends.com. They have already updated the location of 301's new terminus.

I'll get SB pics on Saturday.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on January 10, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
I'll hopefully be driving the corridor both directions tomorrow, I'll record both passes and upload them to YouTube.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 04:36:47 PM
No traffic showing on any of the new 301 cams but the one at the weigh station shows northbound traffic crawling, meaning they might be setting up the opening.

The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.

That besides the point, it's a nice highway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 10, 2019, 04:46:13 PM
No traffic showing on any of the new 301 cams but the one at the weigh station shows northbound traffic crawling, meaning they might be setting up the opening.

The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.

That besides the point, it's a nice highway.

Is it known if the restrictions exist north of the new Exit 5, the current best route to the Summit Bridge?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 04:50:30 PM
No traffic showing on any of the new 301 cams but the one at the weigh station shows northbound traffic crawling, meaning they might be setting up the opening.

The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.

That besides the point, it's a nice highway.

Is it known if the restrictions exist north of the new Exit 5, the current best route to the Summit Bridge?
I don't know, but I wouldn't imagine so. I think it's from the Delaware State line to that point, basically detouring traffic away from Middletown. The only issue with that again though, is forcing a $10 toll on a truck who has no option to avoid it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 10, 2019, 04:54:10 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 10, 2019, 04:58:42 PM
Are through trucks allowed on DE 299? If so, that and US 13 would be the alternate.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 05:01:30 PM
Are through trucks allowed on DE 299? If so, that and US 13 would be the alternate.
That still requires you to enter Delaware, and as soon as you cross the state line a $3 is issued, or something like $10 for trucks.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 05:03:53 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 10, 2019, 05:32:18 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Should a filed lawsuit against Delaware be successful; one option to alleviate such would be to force DelDOT to relocate that AET gantry just north of the DE 299 (Exit 2) interchange.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 10, 2019, 06:16:14 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Should a filed lawsuit against Delaware be successful; one option to alleviate such would be to force DelDOT to relocate that AET gantry just north of the DE 299 (Exit 2) interchange.
What about MD-299 West to MD-213 North to US-40 East?  Or are there restrictions that way too? (I haven't been to that area in a while)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 06:17:37 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Should a filed lawsuit against Delaware be successful; one option to alleviate such would be to force DelDOT to relocate that AET gantry just north of the DE 299 (Exit 2) interchange.
It should be there. Forcing drivers to pay the toll and offering no safe free alternative route is wrong and can lead to some dangerous situations (lots of traffic on narrow roads, deadly accidents on them, etc.)
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 10, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Why isn’t it $1 on weekdays & $3 on weekends like De-1. Seems like they want MD residents to pay the toll, because anyone living in Middletown will get off at the exits. It would make sense to toll northbound 301 from MD stateline as $3 , but people going south from De-1 to 301 SB should not have to pay 3 to go home. I would just continue taking 13 or De-1 to 299 for all that.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 10, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
Why isn’t it $1 on weekdays & $3 on weekends like De-1. Seems like they want MD residents to pay the toll, because anyone living in Middletown will get off at the exits. It would make sense to toll northbound 301 from MD stateline as $3 , but people going south from De-1 to 301 SB should not have to pay 3 to go home. I would just continue taking 13 or De-1 to 299 for all that.


iPhone
Isn't it $4 to get on at the beginning (either at the MD line or DE-1) and less if you get on elsewhere?  If so, then Middletown traffic would be paying $4 to get back into town, but paying less to leave town.

Traffic is so bad in Middletown I wouldn't be surprised if the expressway still gets tons of traffic.  DE-896 S/B looked like a disaster on my trips from Dover to Newark at rush hour.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 06:25:41 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Should a filed lawsuit against Delaware be successful; one option to alleviate such would be to force DelDOT to relocate that AET gantry just north of the DE 299 (Exit 2) interchange.
What about MD-299 West to MD-213 North to US-40 East?  Or are there restrictions that way too? (I haven't been to that area in a while)
That would be a viable alternative for long-distance traffic but residents of Middletown doesn't get a good option like that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 10, 2019, 06:26:54 PM
The DelDOT release says thru trucks will be restricted from the old route, so they are counting on truck tolls to fund this.

https://www.deldot.gov/About/news/index.shtml?dc=release&id=7467
I imagined plenty of truckers are pissed about this - any of them heading up US 301 are forced to pay a toll or break the law.
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

One in-state example is the situation in the Newark/Elkton, MD area.  To legally bypass the I-95 toll in DE; US 40 is available for trucks (a thru-truck prohibition exists for DE 896).  Another example is US 13 en lieu of the tolled DE 1.

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.
There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.
Should a filed lawsuit against Delaware be successful; one option to alleviate such would be to force DelDOT to relocate that AET gantry just north of the DE 299 (Exit 2) interchange.
What about MD-299 West to MD-213 North to US-40 East?  Or are there restrictions that way too? (I haven't been to that area in a while)
That would be a viable alternative for long-distance traffic but residents of Middletown doesn't get a good option like that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
Biggest scam in Delaware History. Lets see how the growth in Middletown does now.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 10, 2019, 06:27:54 PM
That would be a viable alternative for long-distance traffic but residents of Middletown doesn't get a good option like that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
The restriction is on thru trucks though, not local traffic, so they could still take DE/MD-299.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 10, 2019, 06:30:51 PM
That would be a viable alternative for long-distance traffic but residents of Middletown doesn't get a good option like that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
The restriction is on thru trucks though, not local traffic, so they could still take DE/MD-299.
Agreed. Still, the toll location is purposeful to rip people off crossing on the freeway. At least one free "last exit before toll" exit at Exit 2 would've been reasonable.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 10, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
That would be a viable alternative for long-distance traffic but residents of Middletown doesn't get a good option like that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
The restriction is on thru trucks though, not local traffic, so they could still take DE/MD-299.
Agreed. Still, the toll location is purposeful to rip people off crossing on the freeway. At least one free "last exit before toll" exit at Exit 2 would've been reasonable.
Im sure a ramp will be built, just like the one on De-1 southbound before the Toll


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 10, 2019, 09:18:48 PM

There's no way to shunpike the tolls as a truck safely or legally due to this. There are small narrow roads that enter Delaware to the side, but those cannot handle truck traffic. There should be a proper "last exit before toll" to enter Middletown safely, not the B.S. way this was designed IMHO.

If I lived in Middletown, I wouldn't want to be driving up back home at night, and either pay a $3 toll or drive on 1.5 lane roads to avoid it.

Sounds like the SR 1 frequent user discount also applies to 301

https://www.wdel.com/news/video-the-new-route-is-open-for-travel/article_cc7847c2-1524-11e9-b3eb-bfba59fa1271.html
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on January 10, 2019, 10:36:10 PM
Are through trucks allowed on DE 299? If so, that and US 13 would be the alternate.

Since this question never really got answered earlier, the answer is no.  And that restriction has been in place at a minimum for the better part of 2 decades (I recall it existing in the early 2000s when I first traveled through the area).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on January 10, 2019, 11:04:38 PM
The plans showed an auto default at the State Line with no access to the old road.  This means one will have a last chance at the last intersection in MD that most likely will not be marked.

I am surprised that US 301 is allowed to be tolled without a toll free alternative as in OK where US 412 is tolled twice you have US 64 as your free choice west of Tulsa and US 412 ALT east of Tulsa.  Even in IL for US 51 you have old US 51 to allow a shunpike, but here the only other way is now severed, unless its remedied but judging from posts above it seems not.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 11, 2019, 07:44:16 AM
The DelDOT webcam at the reentry road from the truck scale shows the right NB lane of the bypass barreled off.  Why?  When will those barrels be removed?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 11, 2019, 08:10:23 AM
Are through trucks allowed on DE 299? If so, that and US 13 would be the alternate.

Since this question never really got answered earlier, the answer is no.  And that restriction has been in place at a minimum for the better part of 2 decades (I recall it existing in the early 2000s when I first traveled through the area).

That restriction has actually been there a lot longer, at least between Middletown and Odessa.  I remember noticing it in the mid-1980s when I first moved to the MD Eastern Shore from Delco, PA.  And that was quite a few years before that corridor got built up.

This is actually a case of a bypass being bypassed.  The now ex-301 stretch where the Golden Arches, the Colonel, AutoZone, etc. front it was built around 1993.  Before that, 301 went down Peterson Road (behind where Food Lion is now) to Main St. and turned right towards MD.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 11, 2019, 08:52:52 AM
Are through trucks allowed on DE 299? If so, that and US 13 would be the alternate.
Since this question never really got answered earlier, the answer is no.  And that restriction has been in place at a minimum for the better part of 2 decades (I recall it existing in the early 2000s when I first traveled through the area).
That restriction has actually been there a lot longer, at least between Middletown and Odessa.  I remember noticing it in the mid-1980s when I first moved to the MD Eastern Shore from Delco, PA.  And that was quite a few years before that corridor got built up.
That long-term thru-truck restriction, until very recently, wasn't forcing thru-truck-traffic onto a tolled facility.  Since the southern leg of the new US 301 tollway replaces (rather than compliments) the old US 301 (Middletown Warwick Rd.) roadway; the change/upgrade now creates no free alternate route for trucks, thru-traffic or otherwise.  I don't know about anyone else here; but such reeks of extortion.

In addition to truckers complaining, I wouldn't be surprised that residents of neighboring Warwick, MD start complaining of increased thru-car-traffic along Sassafrass Ave.  While Google Maps show the stretch between US 301 & MD 282 as MD 299;  based on current (though 2008 vintage) GSVs, there are no signs along that stretch indicating such.  One has to wonder how much Warwick, MD was involved/consulted in the planning & design input for that southernmost leg of US 301. 

If I were living near there and saw the plans & the toll gantry locations; the very first question I would've asked would have been,"Why are you eliminating the only toll-free corridor that's open to all traffic?"  Every other tollway in Delaware (I-95/Delaware Turnpike & DE 1) was built in addition to the main arterial corridors not instead of.

For those suggesting placing LAST EXIT BEFORE TOLL signage; while such works for southbound traffic approaching Exit 2, it doesn't really help northbound traffic too much because the last turn-off before the AET gantry is indeed at the fore-mentioned Sassafrass Rd. (which isn't truck-traffic friendly) or the MD 290 interchange further south (I'm assuming that trucks can use that road).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 11, 2019, 10:42:10 AM
That long-term thru-truck restriction, until very recently, wasn't forcing thru-truck-traffic onto a tolled facility.  Since the southern leg of the new US 301 tollway replaces (rather than compliments) the old US 301 (Middletown Warwick Rd.) roadway; the change/upgrade now creates no free alternate route for trucks, thru-traffic or otherwise.  I don't know about anyone else here; but such reeks of extortion.

It would seem like the easiest solution would be for traffic between Maryland and the new DE-299 interchange, to ride toll-free.  Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 11, 2019, 11:47:07 AM
Here's breakdown of the passenger vehicle (car) tolls (E-ZPass & Toll-By-Plate).  Note: the Wiki source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_301_in_Delaware#cite_note-ezpassdefaq-5) contained a more direct one-page listing of the tolls whereas DelDOT's own website did not.

Exit/Interchange numbers added (in blue) to the below-quote where applicable:
Quote from: Wiki US 301 Delaware Write-Up
The road has a mainline toll gantry north of the Maryland border and ramp toll gantries on the southbound exits and northbound entrances at the DE 299, DE 71, and Jamison Corner Road interchanges.
The mainline toll gantry costs $4.00 using E-ZPass and $5.60 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles.

The ramp toll gantries cost $1.00 using E-ZPass and $1.40 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 299 interchange (Exit 2),

$0.75 using E-ZPass and $1.05 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 71 interchange (Exit 5),

and $0.50 using E-ZPass and $0.70 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the Jamison Corner Road interchange (Exit 9).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2019, 04:55:51 PM
Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
That shouldn't be an issue... The Chesapeake Expressway is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8 even though the entire project between Exit 10 and MM 2 was built with toll revenue.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 11, 2019, 05:01:46 PM
Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
That shouldn't be an issue... The Chesapeake Expressway is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8 even though the entire project between Exit 10 and MM 2 was built with toll revenue.

But isn't between Exit 10 and Exit 8 part of the Great Bridge Bypass?  That was built toll-free back in the 1970s.  Granted they had to rebuild the south end to make it seamless with the new highway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: wilbur_the_goose on January 11, 2019, 05:29:42 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2019, 05:39:02 PM
Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
That shouldn't be an issue... The Chesapeake Expressway is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8 even though the entire project between Exit 10 and MM 2 was built with toll revenue.

But isn't between Exit 10 and Exit 8 part of the Great Bridge Bypass?  That was built toll-free back in the 1970s.  Granted they had to rebuild the south end to make it seamless with the new highway.
The Great Bridge Bypass ends at Exit 10. Originally, there was a seamless merge back into Battlefield Blvd at this location, but the new freeway constructed a new interchange at an extended Hanbury Rd (Exit 10), and a bridge carrying Battlefield Blvd over the freeway. They also built Hillcrest Parkway as part of the freeway extension, a 2 mile surface road, and a new interchange with it (Exit 8). Exit 8 is the last free exit before the toll booth.

I imagine if they had tolled the entire thing, the successful Edinburgh retail & housing development off Hillcrest Parkway wouldn't exist or be as successful as it. It has toll-free access to the north (the ideal access) but is cut off to the south by the toll.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2019, 05:42:26 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!
You gotta love Delaware. They rip you off to cross the state line, then they set up troopers to rip people off even more. Hopefully they are only going for extreme speeds and not 5-10 over. I'm shocked local police isn't clinching to it other jurisdictions do. (cough-cough Emporia cough-cough)

Was traffic lighter on the old route than usual?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: US 89 on January 11, 2019, 05:42:44 PM
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on January 11, 2019, 06:12:57 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!

I drove the entire corridor both directions during the evening rush. The road was pretty deserted going southbound and I didn't see a single police officer so may have been a little liberal with the gas pedal lol. I'll upload footage of the whole corridor to YouTube so everyone can see the new road once I tweak the parts where I decided to have a little fun.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2019, 06:18:37 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!

I drove the entire corridor both directions during the evening rush. The road was pretty deserted going southbound and I didn't see a single police officer so may have been a little liberal with the gas pedal lol. I'll upload footage of the whole corridor to YouTube so everyone can see the new road once I tweak the parts where I decided to have a little fun.
Yeah definitely, that would be nice to see. I would bet the rush hour is always going to look like this - nobody wants to pay a $4 toll if they don't have to. Problem is - they kinda have to if out-of-state due to the jacked up crossing system they implemented, but that's another story.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on January 11, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!

I drove the entire corridor both directions during the evening rush. The road was pretty deserted going southbound and I didn't see a single police officer so may have been a little liberal with the gas pedal lol. I'll upload footage of the whole corridor to YouTube so everyone can see the new road once I tweak the parts where I decided to have a little fun.
Yeah definitely, that would be nice to see. I would bet the rush hour is always going to look like this - nobody wants to pay a $4 toll if they don't have to. Problem is - they kinda have to if out-of-state due to the jacked up crossing system they implemented, but that's another story.
Eh, IMO southbound isn't busy only because people haven't gotten used to the fact that the road is there. I'd imagine most of the traffic coming down US 301 from SR 1 will be destined for Middletown, which would only hit the partial tolls as opposed to the $4. Northbound traffic, despite being the off-peak direction for PM, was a bit heavier since traffic coming from Maryland is primarily forced onto the new roadway. I did notice a decent amount of traffic (including a truck) using the realigned old US 301 to turn onto Strawberry Lane just before the state line, presumably to reenter US 301 without hitting the toll. It'll be interesting to see how residents of Warwick feel about this when people's travelling patterns begin to normalize over the next few months, I'm betting a lot of Middletown residents headed south will find their way down their streets while regional traffic eats the $4. Time will tell, but either way the road is a fantastic drive and incredibly useful.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 11, 2019, 06:46:33 PM
I happened to drive the new expressway today from DE-1 to DE-299 and back (lunch in Middletown at Grotto Pizza near the Amazon warehouse on old 301).   We loved the road.   Extremely well built - felt almost "German".

There were some state Troopers out there today - I could see how somebody would like to hit 100mph due to the build quality and light traffic.

Saved me about 15 minutes each way - loved it!

I drove the entire corridor both directions during the evening rush. The road was pretty deserted going southbound and I didn't see a single police officer so may have been a little liberal with the gas pedal lol. I'll upload footage of the whole corridor to YouTube so everyone can see the new road once I tweak the parts where I decided to have a little fun.
Yeah definitely, that would be nice to see. I would bet the rush hour is always going to look like this - nobody wants to pay a $4 toll if they don't have to. Problem is - they kinda have to if out-of-state due to the jacked up crossing system they implemented, but that's another story.
Again, based on the traffic I would see on DE-896 SB during the evening rush hour when I commuted on DE-896 NB at that time, I'd say US-301 is probably worth it for Middletown commuters.

Eh, IMO southbound isn't busy only because people haven't gotten used to the fact that the road is there. I'd imagine most of the traffic coming down US 301 from SR 1 will be destined for Middletown, which would only hit the partial tolls as opposed to the $4. Northbound traffic, despite being the off-peak direction for PM, was a bit heavier since traffic coming from Maryland is primarily forced onto the new roadway. I did notice a decent amount of traffic (including a truck) using the realigned old US 301 to turn onto Strawberry Lane just before the state line, presumably to reenter US 301 without hitting the toll. It'll be interesting to see how residents of Warwick feel about this when people's travelling patterns begin to normalize over the next few months, I'm betting a lot of Middletown residents headed south will find their way down their streets while regional traffic eats the $4. Time will tell, but either way the road is a fantastic drive and incredibly useful.
Exactly, the road still is new and when I checked Google Maps last night, it had this really absurd trip time if you took the new US-301 expressway between Warwick and Wilmington, so I'm sure people's GPS hasn't redirected them that way yet.

In theory, someone commuting from the DE-299 exit towards Wilmington would be paying, effectively, $2.50 each way since it's $1 to get on from DE-299 and head north, but $4 to get on from DE-1 and head back south (from how I understand the toll structure).

Another note: I plan to drive the new road tomorrow morning in both directions and record both directions.  I had an idea for a cheap fix to my video setup, so we'll see how that goes.  If I have decent footage I'll upload to YouTube for you all to enjoy.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on January 11, 2019, 09:43:07 PM
That long-term thru-truck restriction, until very recently, wasn't forcing thru-truck-traffic onto a tolled facility.  Since the southern leg of the new US 301 tollway replaces (rather than compliments) the old US 301 (Middletown Warwick Rd.) roadway; the change/upgrade now creates no free alternate route for trucks, thru-traffic or otherwise.  I don't know about anyone else here; but such reeks of extortion.

It would seem like the easiest solution would be for traffic between Maryland and the new DE-299 interchange, to ride toll-free.  Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
Not a problem with the Thruway where traffic enters from PA and MA but doesn't pay a toll until passing the first interchange, even though they were on the Thruway the whole time.  Also true for traffic entering from NJ on I-287, though it wasn't always.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 11, 2019, 10:33:41 PM
Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
That shouldn't be an issue... The Chesapeake Expressway is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8 even though the entire project between Exit 10 and MM 2 was built with toll revenue.

It would be a huge issue because they would never get the toll money to pay back the cost of building it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2019, 10:41:16 PM
Problem is that about 2.3 miles of new 4-lane freeway would be untolled while financed with toll funding.  Maybe they could install gantries at the DE-299 interchange so that they could determine which vehicles are using only that segment, and then charge them a very nominal toll such as 50 cents.
That shouldn't be an issue... The Chesapeake Expressway is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8 even though the entire project between Exit 10 and MM 2 was built with toll revenue.

It would be a huge issue because they would never get the toll money to pay back the cost of building it.
Trust me, thru traffic would still pay it. OBX tourists pack the Chesapeake Expressway in the summer here and will pay the $8 toll one-way instead of taking a route that's 1 minute slower and easily accessible to avoid it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on January 11, 2019, 11:50:08 PM
You have a rental car driven there your pretty much screwed!  Rental agencies implement their own fees on top of the toll by plate fees and some can make a single toll over $20. 

One user on here said the Golden Gate Bridge in California (which is now cashless) costed him over $23 to cross a $7 bridge otherwise.  Also one of my ex bosses said his rental car toll on the Golden Gate was over $30. 

This I must say is outrageous, as it pretty much captures the audience to use the road, plus with GPS ignorance they got most over a barrel.  Even DE 1 has US 13 and I-95 has both US 40 and DE 279, but going through Warwick is not so direct.  Hopefully Warwick residents will complain when shunpikers invade their quiet town.  We can only hope.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 12:00:33 AM
You have a rental car driven there your pretty much screwed!  Rental agencies implement their own fees on top of the toll by plate fees and some can make a single toll over $20. 

One user on here said the Golden Gate Bridge in California (which is now cashless) costed him over $23 to cross a $7 bridge otherwise.  Also one of my ex bosses said his rental car toll on the Golden Gate was over $30. 

This I must say is outrageous, as it pretty much captures the audience to use the road, plus with GPS ignorance they got most over a barrel.  Even DE 1 has US 13 and I-95 has both US 40 and DE 279, but going through Warwick is not so direct.  Hopefully Warwick residents will complain when shunpikers invade their quiet town.  We can only hope.
The whole concept of all electronic tolling has issues. I support having the option to breeze through the highway at 70 MPH with electronic readers, but having side toll booth lanes (one example I can think of is VA-895 in Richmond) for those who don't have a transponder. Tolling-by-plate isn't a good deal for many, adds high costs, and for rentals (like you mentioned), the fees associated with that is high. There's too much confusion and non-sense involved with it.

When I was in California last year, I made sure to avoid any toll roads because I knew they had removed all the toll booths in favor of all electronic tolling. Driving up I-5 from San Diego entering the southern edges of the "LA" region, there's a lot of "Corridor" highways which feature all-electronic tolling. Avoided them at all costs, to avoid costs from my rental company. And no, I'm not going to pay some fee to have a pass which I have to then pay the tolls anyway, etc. It's all too confusing  :banghead:
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: roadman65 on January 12, 2019, 12:20:01 AM
At least we know the roads, but those who don't are the ones to be suckered.  As a toll collector I can tell you how many ignore the toll warnings no matter where they are even on overhead gantries and are caught by surprise that they are at a plaza that collects a fare.

Heck, if they ignore that EXIT ONLY warning on guide signs along with elephant tracks on the pavement when the right lane defaults to the next exit they won't see the toll warnings.  Most drivers think the GPS is a traffic control device and relax and try to drive as if they are in their own neighborhood and just go as fast as you can and beat all the other cars around you so they do not comprehend what they see.

IMO if you are that ignorant and think the GPS knows everything you get what you deserve.  The sad thing is the rest of us have to suffer because of common ignorance though.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 12:48:19 AM
At least we know the roads, but those who don't are the ones to be suckered.  As a toll collector I can tell you how many ignore the toll warnings no matter where they are even on overhead gantries and are caught by surprise that they are at a plaza that collects a fare.
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

IMO if you are that ignorant and think the GPS knows everything you get what you deserve.  The sad thing is the rest of us have to suffer because of common ignorance though.
As dumb as it may sound, I always plot my trips out, and try to get toll information in areas I visit. If I know a certain area has electronic only tolling in an area that doesn't accept E-ZPass (my transponder method), I will avoid it at all costs. I don't just wander onto the road because GPS tells me to and get surprised when I hit a toll booth. I'll fully know where it is, how it is set up, which lanes to be in, etc. If I plan to avoid it, I'll determine that ahead of time too if possible.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: oscar on January 12, 2019, 01:10:11 AM
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

Funny you mention that. I drove the new toll US 301 yesterday (Friday), from south to north. Driving up from Annapolis, I saw some billboards saying that electronic tolling was coming, followed by two sets of signs telling motorists that toll 301 was ahead (first sign 11 miles south of the state line, the second 7 miles), and also at least one VMS confirming that toll 301 was now open. But no signs (yet) telling you that the MD 299 turnoff was your last chance to leave 301 before the toll road began.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 12, 2019, 01:18:56 AM
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

Funny you mention that. I drove the new toll US 301 yesterday (Friday), from south to north. Driving up from Annapolis, I saw some billboards saying that electronic tolling was coming, followed by two sets of signs telling motorists that toll 301 was ahead (first sign 11 miles south of the state line, the second 7 miles), and also at least one VMS confirming that toll 301 was now open. But no signs (yet) telling you that the MD 299 turnoff was your last chance to leave 301 before the toll road began.
Correct, and I didn't even see the 7 mile signs. Also, that road is not very conducive to high speeds because it enters a series of curves as it goes. Very little traffic at about 2:30 PM. I really do think this road will start to see more traffic as GPSes catch up and route NJ/NY traffic to DC this way.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 12, 2019, 08:37:45 AM
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

Funny you mention that. I drove the new toll US 301 yesterday (Friday), from south to north. Driving up from Annapolis, I saw some billboards saying that electronic tolling was coming, followed by two sets of signs telling motorists that toll 301 was ahead (first sign 11 miles south of the state line, the second 7 miles), and also at least one VMS confirming that toll 301 was now open. But no signs (yet) telling you that the MD 299 turnoff was your last chance to leave 301 before the toll road began.

Why do I think that "Lastexitbeforetoll" would make a good name for a racing steed?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 12, 2019, 08:47:59 AM
I drove the new road early this morning and have video to share!  It's uploading to YouTube now so I'll post links momentarily.

Just to share with you guys, I took DE-15 North to DE-42 West to DE-6/MD-291 West to US-301 North to get there.  I u-turned at DE-1 Exit 152 (DE-72).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 1995hoo on January 12, 2019, 09:20:57 AM
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

Funny you mention that. I drove the new toll US 301 yesterday (Friday), from south to north. Driving up from Annapolis, I saw some billboards saying that electronic tolling was coming, followed by two sets of signs telling motorists that toll 301 was ahead (first sign 11 miles south of the state line, the second 7 miles), and also at least one VMS confirming that toll 301 was now open. But no signs (yet) telling you that the MD 299 turnoff was your last chance to leave 301 before the toll road began.

I'm not terribly surprised. Recall that for many years, there was nothing on northbound I-95 in Maryland indicating that a toll was ahead and that Exit 109 was the last exit before the toll (I suppose "is" would be more correct, except I understand now they warn you of the toll). I can't say I'm all that surprised that Maryland would pull a similar stunt on US-301 for an out-of-state toll road.



….

Heck, if they ignore that EXIT ONLY warning on guide signs ….

There are a surprising number of people who don't know what "EXIT ONLY" means and who think it means that you can't re-enter the highway going in the same direction at that interchange. (I always liked the way Delaware's old signs on I-295 were worded. Instead of "EXIT ONLY," they said "MUST EXIT" or, in one case, "THIS LANE MUST EXIT.")
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 12, 2019, 09:31:31 AM
I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: wilbur_the_goose on January 12, 2019, 09:46:21 AM
I think your excellent videos capture the road well. 

I for one loved it - fantastic engineering, safe, and a pleasure to drive.   Well worth the cost based on the delivered product.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 12, 2019, 01:31:14 PM
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.
Should that happen; it wouldn't surprise me at all if DelDOT's reaction/remedy for such would be to redesignate US 301 in their state as DE 301 thereby bypassing that AASHTO rule.  I'm surprised DelDOT didn't pursue such action when this tolled highway was planned.

BTW: there are locations where there are toll-free alternate water crossings with respect to tolled US route bridge/tunnel crossings.  The US 1 Susquehanna River crossing (via Conowingo Rd.) in MD and MA 99 (Malden Bridge along Alford St.) in Charlestown/Boston being two of them.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 12, 2019, 01:48:15 PM
What's the definition of a toll-free route? A look at a map shows there's other options...just not options directly parallel to 301.

I'm sure this was all considered prior to the Feds permitting the toll road to be signed US 301.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 02:03:20 PM
I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):
Nice videos! Looks like a very nice highway, well done.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 02:06:15 PM
If it's clearly signed as "toll", "last exit before toll" and rates are posted in advance, then it's fully their fault. I know drivers who feel they don't need to read road signs, and they get pissed when things don't go how they expect it.

Funny you mention that. I drove the new toll US 301 yesterday (Friday), from south to north. Driving up from Annapolis, I saw some billboards saying that electronic tolling was coming, followed by two sets of signs telling motorists that toll 301 was ahead (first sign 11 miles south of the state line, the second 7 miles), and also at least one VMS confirming that toll 301 was now open. But no signs (yet) telling you that the MD 299 turnoff was your last chance to leave 301 before the toll road began.
I wouldn't be surprised if signs are not put in Maryland for a while. The way Delaware positioned this toll, they aren't required to sign "Last Exit Before Toll" on the northbound lanes because there is none in their borders, and Maryland doesn't have to sign it because it's not in their state.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: US 89 on January 12, 2019, 02:18:56 PM
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

Should that happen; it wouldn't surprise me at all if DelDOT's reaction/remedy for such would be to redesignate US 301 in their state as DE 301 thereby bypassing that AASHTO rule.  I'm surprised DelDOT didn't pursue such action when this tolled highway was planned.

But then it would end at a state line, which is a higher priority in AASHTO's list of things you aren't allowed to do with a US highway.

And at this point, they probably wouldn't allow moving US 301 back onto the old route, because that would be moving it to a lower-standard routing. I guess you can't win.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 12, 2019, 02:31:28 PM
I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 02:45:36 PM
I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?
I don't know, but the Clearview font used on newer signage is ugly IMHO. The font used at Exit 2 is how all the signage should still be on new roads, signs, etc IMO.

I know Virginia switched to the signage too sadly, but I'm glad North Carolina is keeping the older style.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on January 12, 2019, 02:50:20 PM
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

AASHTO, SMASHTO. AASHTO is a voluntary organization with no legally binding enforcement powers. Hasn't Oklahoma signed a US route for years without AASHTO approval?

Anyone who sues over a violation of AASHTO guidelines -- and they are guidelines, not regulations -- is going to lose if that's the basis for their argument.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 12, 2019, 03:43:31 PM
So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
Exit 5 (DE-71) was also non-Clearview.  Not sure on the signage, but each segment was a separate construction contract: https://news.delaware.gov/2018/01/22/us-301-project-takes-shape-in-middletown/

If they did go AET on DE-1 eventually, then my guess would be that this would be the APL (I slapped this together pretty quickly so forgive its crappiness):

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HW9xohg.png)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 12, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

Should that happen; it wouldn't surprise me at all if DelDOT's reaction/remedy for such would be to redesignate US 301 in their state as DE 301 thereby bypassing that AASHTO rule.  I'm surprised DelDOT didn't pursue such action when this tolled highway was planned.

But then it would end at a state line, which is a higher priority in AASHTO's list of things you aren't allowed to do with a US highway.

And at this point, they probably wouldn't allow moving US 301 back onto the old route, because that would be moving it to a lower-standard routing. I guess you can't win.
If I'm not mistaken, the toll-free alternative to the tolled US route per the AASHTO rule need not necessarily be designated as US route number nor does it have to be the same grade of highway (expressway vs. arterial). 

In reference to an example that I mentioned earlier: Circa 1971, when US 1 in the Boston area was rerouted onto a tolled harbor crossing (the Sumner/Callahan Tunnels) via the old MA C1; MA 99, which took over the old US 1 between Saugus & Everett and ran further south towards Charlestown, was born and became the routed toll-free river/harbor crossing (the I-93 extension to the Central Artery wouldn't happen until 1973).

Personally, I don't care which corridor (old or new) has the US 301 designation.  The issue here is that there is no toll-free alternative route that all vehicles can realistically use.  In contrast, when the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) & the tolled portion of DE 1 were built (at different times); neither of those tolled facilities obliterated an existing free corridor (a truck can still use US 40 to bypass I-95 or US 13 to bypass DE 1).  I.e. for the new US 301; the notion of "If you don't want a pay the toll, don't use the highway" can't apply here.

As stated earlier, had there been a partial, northbound exit/southbound entrance, with Middletown Warwick Rd. (former US 301) constructed just north of the border & south of the mainline gantry (granted, two of the four ramps at Exit 2 (DE 299) would be then redundant); such would've been compliant with the AASHTO rule/guideline/whatever.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 12, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
Exit 5 (DE-71) was also non-Clearview.  Not sure on the signage, but each segment was a separate construction contract: https://news.delaware.gov/2018/01/22/us-301-project-takes-shape-in-middletown/

If they did go AET on DE-1 eventually, then my guess would be that this would be the APL (I slapped this together pretty quickly so forgive its crappiness):

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HW9xohg.png)

DE 1 would have three lanes and both shields should have yellow TOLL markers, but yeah. I imagine that if they keep it a single-lane exit, or do make it an option lane but don't use an APL, it would be because of the signage approaching the toll plaza complicating things.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on January 12, 2019, 05:16:24 PM
Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 12, 2019, 05:19:56 PM
For those of you planning to drive this new route when it opens, kindly remember US Ends .com (https://www.usends.com/301.html) in your travels  :biggrin: 
We will be happy to credit you for your photos of US 301 signage at its new endpoint/beginning point, as well as the last northbound 301 marker, and the first southbound marker.

I apologize for the sun glare, but it's that time of year. This is SB.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49864839_2454705891208755_8331221417244753920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=a1afbc0f232a0271b671978d846b31e7&oe=5CC1EA9C)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49736879_2454705857875425_6063627612947742720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=e98381b5999b340df995ab105175d70d&oe=5CBD7310)

- Josh Schmid
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 12, 2019, 05:32:22 PM
Something else I noticed from ipeters' videos is at least one southbound reassurance marker with "South" written in mixed case.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 12, 2019, 07:06:27 PM
Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 12, 2019, 07:41:05 PM
Something else I noticed from ipeters' videos is at least one southbound reassurance marker with "South" written in mixed case.
Yeah, I picked up on that when I was driving by it.  I was waiting for someone to point it out!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 12, 2019, 11:14:49 PM
Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 11:31:09 PM
Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
That would be many years then. This project alone cost over $600 million and has to be paid back via tolls. That's going to take at least 20 years.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 12, 2019, 11:38:48 PM
Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
That would be many years then. This project alone cost over $600 million and has to be paid back via tolls. That's going to take at least 20 years.
Debt is a thing you just have nowadays, how do we know they wont use the Toll revenue to build the 896 ramp and the 301 road.

They are still doing construction on the local roads around the highway, so they will still be doing finishing touches on the roads, and highway as well
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 12, 2019, 11:40:31 PM
Debt is a thing you just have nowadays, how do we know they wont use the Toll revenue to build the 896 ramp and the 301 road.

They are still doing construction on the local roads around the highway, so they will still be doing finishing touches on the roads, and highway as well
True, you got a point.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 13, 2019, 12:59:50 PM
Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on January 13, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?

The site wording is funky, but signage clearly bans trucks (at least in the US 40 and DE 279 cases). Signs generally look like this one on DE 896 approaching DE 4 (https://goo.gl/maps/6T6MHypADRD2).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 14, 2019, 09:04:08 AM
Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?

The site wording is funky, but signage clearly bans trucks (at least in the US 40 and DE 279 cases). Signs generally look like this one on DE 896 approaching DE 4 (https://goo.gl/maps/6T6MHypADRD2).
After quickly scanning through GSVs (dated between 2015-2018 depending on location) along DE 896 between I-95 & US 40 as well as US 40 between MD 279 & DE 896; there doesn't appear to be any signage that flat out prohibits trucks and/or oversize/overheight vehicles for US 40 itself similar to ones along DE 896 north of I-95  (per the posted-example).  There only appears to be thru-truck prohibition signs for connecting cross/side streets (including Business DE 896 along Glasgow Ave.).
________________________________

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be an issue. 

Either that or extend Middletown Warwick Rd. (former US 301) into MD & have it intersect/interchange w/US 301 on the MD side.  Note: Strawberry Lane/Wilson St. is a narrow two-lane road w/no shoulders & has had a long-time thru-truck prohibition.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: seicer on January 14, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Yeah, I was scanning both Maryland and Delaware for signs and couldn't find any. The only restriction I could find was a left-lane truck restriction over the Susquehanna River. At any rate, with the high number of traffic signals and driveway entrances, US 40 is not an ideal truck route. It doesn't make any fiscal or logical sense to use US 40 as a truck "shunpike."
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 14, 2019, 09:50:17 AM
I didnt even know there was a truck ban on 40, explains why truckers dont take 40 to access I-95 Past the Newark toll.  Seems like These states like to play games with truckers.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 14, 2019, 11:48:49 AM
I didnt even know there was a truck ban on 40, explains why truckers dont take 40 to access I-95 Past the Newark toll.  Seems like These states like to play games with truckers.
A few years ago, and noted in the Delaware thread, there was an article that covered the increased truck traffic along DE 896 between I-95 and the now-DE 279 (a route that is dotted with Vehicles w/more than 2-axle prohibition signs) since the current I-95 toll rates (which eliminated any E-ZPass discount toll rates) took effect.  Interestingly, the article mentioned nothing regarding traffic along US 40 between DE 896 & MD 279.

Nonetheless, the squabble between DE and truckers regarding tolls has existed for some time; the mainline AET gantry along southern portion of tolled US 301 with respect to the surrounding smaller roadways may very well have placed additional gasoline on that proverbial fire.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 14, 2019, 12:15:03 PM
There isn't a truck ban on US 40.  The link above is for oversized/overweight trucks, which there are extremely few of.  They usually have a banner stating oversize/over width.

The everyday tractor trailers you see on the highways are perfectly legal on US 40.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: seicer on January 14, 2019, 12:51:49 PM
I was about to chime in with that, too. There are no signs that I could find anywhere for any of the routes mentioned, and having such a restriction is common because of the towns it passes through and the beforementioned bridge. Not a big deal.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 14, 2019, 12:52:19 PM
There isn't a truck ban on US 40.  The link above is for oversized/overweight trucks, which there are extremely few of.  They usually have a banner stating oversize/over width.

The everyday tractor trailers you see on the highways are perfectly legal on US 40.
That's what I thought.
__________________________________

Speak Out: U.S. 301 opens (https://delawarestatenews.net/opinion/speak-out-u-s-301-opens/)

Quote from: Delaware State News Article
• $4 is the toll at the Delaware/Maryland state line for using I-95 — which is about the same length from state line to state line (Maryland to Pennsylvania) And you can easily avoid that toll, just like you can on this road. — Brian P Slattery
He clearly isn't familiar with the area; particularly the Warwick, MD side.  Yes. there's a shun-pike route (except for thru-trucks) with no traffic signals but portions, mainly Strawberry Lane/Wilson St. & Sassafrass Rd. are very narrow two-lane roads w/no shoulders.
___________________________________

In case anyone's interested, here's DelDOT's Official Toll Calculator for US 301 (https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301).

In a nutshell, northbound travelers from MD are paying the full-toll rate ($4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate) regardless of where one exits off 301.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NJRoadfan on January 14, 2019, 04:26:16 PM
The tolling being biased as northbound enter/southbound exit is what makes the "mainline" toll so high. The position of the gantries would have solved this problem. Being a strictly AET roadway, they could have even tolled based on actual use like a closed ticket system (but at the cost of extra gantries).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 14, 2019, 05:26:51 PM
There isn't a truck ban on US 40.  The link above is for oversized/overweight trucks, which there are extremely few of.  They usually have a banner stating oversize/over width.

The everyday tractor trailers you see on the highways are perfectly legal on US 40.
That's what I thought.
__________________________________

Speak Out: U.S. 301 opens (https://delawarestatenews.net/opinion/speak-out-u-s-301-opens/)

Quote from: Delaware State News Article
• $4 is the toll at the Delaware/Maryland state line for using I-95 — which is about the same length from state line to state line (Maryland to Pennsylvania) And you can easily avoid that toll, just like you can on this road. — Brian P Slattery
He clearly isn't familiar with the area; particularly the Warwick, MD side.  Yes. there's a shun-pike route (except for thru-trucks) with no traffic signals but portions, mainly Strawberry Lane/Wilson St. & Sassafrass Rd. are very narrow two-lane roads w/no shoulders.
___________________________________

In case anyone's interested, here's DelDOT's Official Toll Calculator for US 301 (https://www.deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicTollRateUS301).

In a nutshell, northbound travelers from MD are paying the full-toll rate ($4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate) regardless of where one exits off 301.
I totally want to pay $4 to ride a mile of this new highway, makes a lot of sense!!
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 14, 2019, 06:15:54 PM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be an issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: davewiecking on January 14, 2019, 09:53:20 PM
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
Not that I want to derail this thread further, but I’m curious about the “ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement” step. Rebar or mesh messes up the pass readers?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 14, 2019, 11:23:50 PM
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
Not that I want to derail this thread further, but I’m curious about the “ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement” step. Rebar or mesh messes up the pass readers?
Yup, electromagnetic stuff or whatever. Interferes with reading the signature of a passing car. It's not derailing the thread at all.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Roadsguy on January 14, 2019, 11:45:26 PM
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
Not that I want to derail this thread further, but I’m curious about the “ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement” step. Rebar or mesh messes up the pass readers?
Yup, electromagnetic stuff or whatever. Interferes with reading the signature of a passing car. It's not derailing the thread at all.

Huh, so all concrete below electronic toll gantries has no rebar?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 15, 2019, 12:37:14 AM
Did they really clearly find out the information regarding, how the people that live in the area would feel about the toll? I assume since Maryland does no part in helping with projects, Delaware will toll the hell out the people.

But as far as the tolls If they move the gantry pass the exit they are talking about, could you imagine how many people would get off at that toll less exit, probably about 75% of the cars including the trucks. Then the exit is backing up & causing backups on the highway, then thats a whole new issue. When I drive on De-1 on the weekdays, when the toll is $1 I see only a few people get off the exit, but when that toll sign goes to $3 on the weekend, sheesh that exit almost gets backed up thats how many cars & trucks get off, but luckily the ramp is a mega ramp or there would be serious problems.

The best bet would be....

A.turn Edgar price aka Levels road, into a stable 2 lane road or 3 lane , 2 lane NB 1 lane SB, straighten the road out at some parts & put a couple new traffic signals on it to slow down traffic & create new neighborhoods & etc. That option would work if Maryland did their half.

B. Create an interchange with the New 301 & Old 301. With ramps for trucks to access the weigh station, create another roundabout with strawberry lane. With new neighborhoods on levels road, they might need to put a local traffic only sign so trucks don’t crash going around the roundabout.

C. Keep it simple, just move the gantries or eliminate the toll or lower it. Just do it how Route 1 is done.

For all the trouble if Route 1’s toll was that high, there would be no toll on that road.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 15, 2019, 08:37:13 AM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be a issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
That being the case, then DelDOT should have thought of that prior to installing the current mainline gantries.  This current set-up is clearly on them.

Additionally, if such were to happen via a court order; it wouldn't be the first time that AET gantries were removed.  Remember the RI 24 Sakonnet River Bridge AET/toll fiasco of several years ago?  Those gantries have since been removed (but later reused for one of the I-95 truck toll gantries).

Another alternative that would achieve the same above-result would be to extend the northbound exit & southbound entry ramps at Exit 2 further south beyond the mainline AET gantries.  Such would be an interesting cost comparison.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 15, 2019, 08:55:31 AM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be a issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
That being the case, then DelDOT should have thought of that prior to installing the current mainline gantries.  This current set-up is clearly on them.

Well, yeah, they planned it that way.  It's not like the contractor placed them in the wrong spot.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 15, 2019, 09:11:14 AM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be a issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
That being the case, then DelDOT should have thought of that prior to installing the current mainline gantries.  This current set-up is clearly on them.

Well, yeah, they planned it that way.  It's not like the contractor placed them in the wrong spot.
I asked this before upthread and I'll restate it again.  One has to wonder how much input did neighboring Warwick, MD really have when the southern leg was designed & planned.  I can't believe for one nanosecond that the town officials & resident was 100% okay with this setup... especially given that two of the local feeder roads (Wilson St./Strawberry Ln. & Sassafrass Rd.) are narrow 2-laners w/no shoulders.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 15, 2019, 04:40:48 PM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be a issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
That being the case, then DelDOT should have thought of that prior to installing the current mainline gantries.  This current set-up is clearly on them.

Well, yeah, they planned it that way.  It's not like the contractor placed them in the wrong spot.
I asked this before upthread and I'll restate it again.  One has to wonder how much input did neighboring Warwick, MD really have when the southern leg was designed & planned.  I can't believe for one nanosecond that the town officials & resident was 100% okay with this setup... especially given that two of the local feeder roads (Wilson St./Strawberry Ln. & Sassafrass Rd.) are narrow 2-laners w/no shoulders.

I don't think they consulted folks in Cecilton, Fredericktown, Georgetown, or Galena either.  Nor Cecil County nor Kent County (MD) authorities.  As for town officials in Warwick, that's an unincorporated town, as are Fredericktown and Georgetown.  Cecilton and Galena are incorporated.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 15, 2019, 04:53:12 PM

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be a issue. 
New foundations and gantries (have to keep the current ones in service) plus the power feeds to get out there, testing, ripping up pavement to remove metallic reinforcement... Millions. Not a cakewalk.
That being the case, then DelDOT should have thought of that prior to installing the current mainline gantries.  This current set-up is clearly on them.

Well, yeah, they planned it that way.  It's not like the contractor placed them in the wrong spot.
I asked this before upthread and I'll restate it again.  One has to wonder how much input did neighboring Warwick, MD really have when the southern leg was designed & planned.  I can't believe for one nanosecond that the town officials & resident was 100% okay with this setup... especially given that two of the local feeder roads (Wilson St./Strawberry Ln. & Sassafrass Rd.) are narrow 2-laners w/no shoulders.

I don't think they consulted folks in Cecilton, Fredericktown, Georgetown, or Galena either.  Nor Cecil County nor Kent County (MD) authorities.  As for town officials in Warwick, that's an unincorporated town, as are Fredericktown and Georgetown.  Cecilton and Galena are incorporated.
Bottom line: it would appear that nobody in the abutting County (Cecil) and its directly-impacted municipalities were fully consulted with regards to where toll charges would along the new tollway would start.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on January 16, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
Would Delaware have been under any obligation to consult with Maryland's local governments before proceeding?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 16, 2019, 09:14:41 PM
When I drive on De-1 on the weekdays, when the toll is $1 I see only a few people get off the exit, but when that toll sign goes to $3 on the weekend, sheesh that exit almost gets backed up thats how many cars & trucks get off, but luckily the ramp is a mega ramp or there would be serious problems.

Don't even get me started about the year-round weekend toll differential.  Should be limited to tourism season.  I imagine most of the weekend revenue comes from May-September.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 16, 2019, 09:30:38 PM
When I drive on De-1 on the weekdays, when the toll is $1 I see only a few people get off the exit, but when that toll sign goes to $3 on the weekend, sheesh that exit almost gets backed up thats how many cars & trucks get off, but luckily the ramp is a mega ramp or there would be serious problems.

Don't even get me started about the year-round weekend toll differential.  Should be limited to tourism season.  I imagine most of the weekend revenue comes from May-September.
I always wondered if they can limit it to tourists months, but that might be illegal? Why didn’t they do the tolling they have on De -1 on the 301? Why just a flat out $4 rate? Because it’s a new highway? They should have looked at all perspectives. But then again Maryland is the reason the Newark beltway (another post) didnt get built.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 16, 2019, 10:19:07 PM
I always wondered if they can limit it to tourists months, but that might be illegal?
It's not illegal, Chesapeake, VA raises the toll rates during summer weekends from $3 to $8 on the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168). There's been talks of increasing it to $9, and the regular rate to $4.

Also, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel increases rates from $14 to $18 during summer weekends.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 17, 2019, 08:55:05 AM
I always wondered if they can limit it to tourists months, but that might be illegal? Why didn’t they do the tolling they have on De -1 on the 301? Why just a flat out $4 rate?
Apples & oranges comparison.  It is presumed that the majority of traffic on the new US 301 will be through-traffic (think I-95 further north) not tourist/coast-bound traffic (like DE 1); and its toll schedule clearly reflects such... more on that in a bit.  It's also worth noting that the tolled stretch of DE 1 originally did not have the higher, extortion rate weekend tolls.; such came later (I forget exactly when).

They should have looked at all perspectives.
Agreed.  IMHO & especially since the road's AET; DelDOT, in addition to placing the mainline AET gantries within Exit 2/DE 299, should've either tolled it like the NJ Turnpike (completely closed system where one entry onto the road is recorded by the first E-ZPass gantry & is charged an appropriate distance-based toll upon exiting via another E-ZPass gantry) or how the Mass Pike (I-90) is now tolled in MA (AET gantries placed along the mainline in-between interchanges and charge a flat-rate toll). 

The way the road is currently tolled; using it for travel in-between the interchanges is flat-out discouraged.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: seicer on January 17, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
That might have been the intent, though. It should be discouraged to use freeways as short-haul modes of transport (i.e. exit to exit).
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 17, 2019, 09:27:45 AM
Would Delaware have been under any obligation to consult with Maryland's local governments before proceeding?

In order for this project to get funding, they would've first brought it up with the area's Metropolitan Planning Commission. In this case it would be the Wilmington Area Planning Council (WILMAPCO) regional transportation planning agency, which serves New Castle County, DE and Cecil County, MD.  As this new 301 goes thru both counties, it absolutely would have been discussed with both states beforehand, and any affected area's government would have had the opportunity to provide input into the project.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on January 17, 2019, 01:12:00 PM
IMHO & especially since the road's AET; DelDOT, in addition to placing the mainline AET gantries within Exit 2/DE 299, should've either tolled it like the NJ Turnpike (completely closed system where one entry onto the road is recorded by the first E-ZPass gantry & is charged an appropriate distance-based toll upon exiting via another E-ZPass gantry) or how the Mass Pike (I-90) is now tolled in MA (AET gantries placed along the mainline in-between interchanges and charge a flat-rate toll). 

The way the road is currently tolled; using it for travel in-between the interchanges is flat-out discouraged.
Definitely (well, aside from putting the gantry inside exit 2 - I would put it north of exit 2; putting it inside the interchange only encourages traffic to shunpike by getting off and then back on again).  The current tolling scheme is asinine.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 17, 2019, 01:25:02 PM
IMHO & especially since the road's AET; DelDOT, in addition to placing the mainline AET gantries within Exit 2/DE 299, should've either tolled it like the NJ Turnpike (completely closed system where one entry onto the road is recorded by the first E-ZPass gantry & is charged an appropriate distance-based toll upon exiting via another E-ZPass gantry) or how the Mass Pike (I-90) is now tolled in MA (AET gantries placed along the mainline in-between interchanges and charge a flat-rate toll). 

The way the road is currently tolled; using it for travel in-between the interchanges is flat-out discouraged.
Definitely (well, aside from putting the gantry inside exit 2 - I would put it north of exit 2; putting it inside the interchange only encourages traffic to shunpike by getting off and then back on again).
The southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps at Exit 2 presently have AET gantries that charges $1 E-ZPass/$1.40 Toll-By-Plate.  Nowhere in my prior posts was I advocating the removal of those; I was only suggesting the relocation of the mainline gantry that's currently south of Exit 2 to allow for one last real exit prior to the mainline toll for all vehicles coming to/from Maryland... just like there is further north along I-95.

The current tolling scheme is asinine.
Agree with you 100% on that one.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 17, 2019, 01:28:26 PM
Maybe this will force maryland to build a exit ramp and upgrade their back roads. Only other reasonable option.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on January 17, 2019, 01:51:07 PM
The southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps at Exit 2 presently have AET gantries that charges $1 E-ZPass/$1.40 Toll-By-Plate.  Nowhere in my prior posts was I advocating the removal of those; I was only suggesting the relocation of the mainline gantry that's currently south of Exit 2 to allow for one last real exit prior to the mainline toll for all vehicles coming to/from Maryland... just like there is further north along I-95.
Well, if the gantry was north of exit 2, then there would be no need for the ramp gantries.  In any case, $1 is less than $3.

If I were doing it, there would be three gantries, one between each interchange, with MD to exit 2 free.  Alternatively, a variant of the NH Turnpike model could work, with a gantry inside the DE 71 interchange, gantries on the ramps of said interchange, and a gantry between Jamison Corners Road and DE 1.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 17, 2019, 04:27:53 PM
The southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps at Exit 2 presently have AET gantries that charges $1 E-ZPass/$1.40 Toll-By-Plate.  Nowhere in my prior posts was I advocating the removal of those; I was only suggesting the relocation of the mainline gantry that's currently south of Exit 2 to allow for one last real exit prior to the mainline toll for all vehicles coming to/from Maryland... just like there is further north along I-95.
Well, if the gantry was north of exit 2, then there would be no need for the ramp gantries.
Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 is not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.

In any case, $1 is less than $3 $4
FTFY

The likely reasoning behind DelDOT charging $4 is to match the corresponding I-95 toll in Newark.  If a lower through-traffic toll (say $3 for example) was levied for US 301; such would have the potential of diverting more traffic (& revenue) away from those I-95 tollbooths than DelDOT wants.
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 17, 2019, 04:31:50 PM
The southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps at Exit 2 presently have AET gantries that charges $1 E-ZPass/$1.40 Toll-By-Plate.  Nowhere in my prior posts was I advocating the removal of those; I was only suggesting the relocation of the mainline gantry that's currently south of Exit 2 to allow for one last real exit prior to the mainline toll for all vehicles coming to/from Maryland... just like there is further north along I-95.
Well, if the gantry was north of exit 2, then there would be no need for the ramp gantries.
Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my earlier reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 are not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.

In any case, $1 is less than $3 $4
FTFY

The likely reasoning behind DelDOT charging $4 is to match the corresponding I-95 toll in Newark.  If a lower through-traffic toll (say $3 for example) was levied for US 301; such would have the potential of diverting more traffic (& revenue) away from those I-95 tollbooths than DelDOT wants.

Im shocked that Delaware wouldnt want traffic to go on the 301 to create new growth in the area, but even if they match the toll, I-95 traffic will still go That way & they already are paying the $4 plus more, I believe the 301 route is cheaper then 95 correct me if im wrong?

Also they did sign the tolls in MD, so it will be a while before people realize & put the word out.

iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: NE2 on January 17, 2019, 04:46:50 PM
They did sign the tolls in Maryland...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: oscar on January 17, 2019, 04:48:32 PM
Also they didnt sign the tolls in MD, so it will be a while before people realize & put the word out.

There are billboards on northbound 301 stating that all-electronic tolling is coming, followed by signs 7 and 11 miles before toll 301 confirming that tolls are in force.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 17, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
I take back my statement.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 17, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
I'm shocked that Delaware wouldn't want traffic to go on the 301 to create new growth in the area, but even if they match the toll, I-95 traffic will still go that way & they already are paying the $4 plus more, I believe the 301 route is cheaper then 95 correct me if im wrong?
If we're talking about long-distance (south of the DC area) through-traffic; then, yes US 301 even with its new tolls is cheaper than if one stays on I-95.  But for one heading to/from Cecil County, MD; the through-toll amount is the same... at least for E-ZPass users.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 17, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
I'm shocked that Delaware wouldn't want traffic to go on the 301 to create new growth in the area, but even if they match the toll, I-95 traffic will still go that way & they already are paying the $4 plus more, I believe the 301 route is cheaper then 95 correct me if im wrong?
If we're talking about long-distance (south of the DC area) through-traffic; then, yes US 301 even with its new tolls is cheaper than if one stays on I-95.  But for one heading to/from Cecil County, MD; the through-toll amount is the same... at least for E-ZPass users.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.
Righhht, that would be bad, I guess sometimes it’s easier to keep it simple. Speaking of the highway, does anyone know how the traffic is flowing now & if there are any merge problems? I assume everything is all good.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 17, 2019, 05:40:52 PM
Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 17, 2019, 06:49:43 PM
Given today's earlier truck accident along I-95 just north of Exit 109 (MD 279) that closed down both directions between there & Exit 1 (DE 896) for a while (loss of toll revenue for the Delaware Turnpike during that temporary closure); one could only imagine what would happen if such occurred along US 301 between Exit 2 and Sassafrass Rd. in Warwick, MD
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 17, 2019, 07:21:26 PM
Correct.  He's trying to read into info that's not there.  There's simply going to be an EZ Pass rate and a non-EZ Pass rate.  If the rate were to differ based on residency, that would've been mentioned.

That is what I figured, but a few states in the Northeast quietly removed out-of-state discounts. When NY first started discriminating, there was nothing clear online showing that the discount doesn't apply to non-NY accounts. Even today, you have to read a footnote to know that the E-ZPass rate doesn't apply to non-NY tags at the TBTA crossings.
Not sure if you've driven the road yet (and sorry to bring up old news), but I can definitely confirm that there is no surcharge for out of state E-ZPass tags (source is my own E-ZPass account).

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWW7cal.png)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on January 17, 2019, 07:47:43 PM
Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 is not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.
I don't see why traffic traveling on to the state line should be charged an additional toll at all.  As I mentioned earlier, that's not how the Thruway does it, and IMO the Thruway has it right.

In any case, if traveling down a ramp is all it takes to save some money, many people would do it.  Exit 2 is a diamond interchange, so unless one prohibited straight-through movements, there would be practically no downside to shunkpiking.

I really, really do not like how Delaware likes to charge predominantly out of state traffic.  Such schemes should be illegal.

Quote
In any case, $1 is less than $3 $4
FTFY
I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 17, 2019, 08:07:00 PM
Such schemes should be illegal.
I thought this was bad, then the VA I-81 tolling plan was unveiled.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 18, 2019, 12:48:32 AM
Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 18, 2019, 12:56:38 AM
I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Could be, but MD US-301 north of the US-50 split at Queenstown is still an expressway, not a full freeway, and the trip will need to be timed to avoid congested periods on the Bay Bridge.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 1995hoo on January 18, 2019, 07:40:59 AM
There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 18, 2019, 07:43:41 AM
Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 18, 2019, 07:52:20 AM
There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.

"Wrap around the mall", as WDEL's Robin Bryson would call it.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 18, 2019, 08:02:14 AM
Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

ixnay
It has something to do with the volume of traffic vs. the capacity of the road (I believe it stands for "level of service").  Here's an example: http://www.wilmapco.org/Cms/Kirkwood%20Hwy%202014_OPS_Analysis.pdf
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: froggie on January 18, 2019, 08:49:45 AM
I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 18, 2019, 09:27:38 AM
Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 is not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.
I don't see why traffic traveling on to the state line should be charged an additional toll at all.  As I mentioned earlier, that's not how the Thruway does it, and IMO the Thruway has it right.
Val, I agree with you in principle; but one needs to keep in mind *devil's advocate mode - on* that DE never had a toll road that operated with the traditional closed-ticket system like much of the NY Thruway as well as the MA (pre-AET conversion), PA (most of it), NJ & OH Turnpikes. 

When the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) first opened, the tollbooths in Newark weren't the only ones in the system.  Southbounders that exited off earlier paid a lower toll at the ramps.  Northbounders that entered onto I-95 beyond the mainline toll plaza had to pay at separate but lower toll at the booths upon entering.  As mentioned before in other threads, the original plan was that once the bonds that built the road were paid off; all of the tollbooths were to be taken down and the Delaware Turnpike was to become a free-interstate.  The removal of the I-95 ramp tolls was the first phase of such a phase-out/conversion but the final phase (the removal of the mainline tolls), sadly IMHO, never happened.  And this was back when the tolls were much lower & reasonable.

Long story short, DE placed the AET gantries and set the tolls rates for US 301 in the same manner that it did for the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) in the 1960s; the only differences being the AET collection mode (such didn't exist when I-95 was first built), the elimination of the old/free state-line crossing (that's my biggest bone of contention) & the toll rates (I still believe that $4 mainline rate is too high).  *devil's advocate mode - off*

In any case, if traveling down a ramp is all it takes to save some money, many people would do it.  Exit 2 is a diamond interchange, so unless one prohibited straight-through movements, there would be practically no downside to shunkpiking.
As mentioned earlier, a couple of the direct-shunpike component routes south of Exit 2 have had long-standing through-truck prohibitions on them.  I don't see such changing anytime soon.  For cars traveling south on US 301 but exiting prior to the mainline AET gantry; one still pays a toll, though much lower, upon exiting.  Such action isn't a full shunpike per se, just a cost savings.

I really, really do not like how Delaware likes to charge predominantly out of state traffic.  Such schemes should be illegal.
For existing free Interstate highways; such practice is.  The I-95 one exists largely because it was grandfathered in and wasn't originally the only tollbooth for the Delaware Turnpike.  I would even bet that had the mainline AET gantry at US 301 been the only gantry proposed; DelDOT would've gotten some flack for from the feds for it even if the highway's not an Interstate.

I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
See Ipeters61's E-ZPass statement below, the mainline E-ZPass toll is indeed $4; which matches, for better or worse, the I-95/Delaware Turnpike toll.  The fore-mentioned $1 E-ZPass toll was for southbound traffic leaving at Exit 2 & northbound traffic entering at Exit 2.

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HWW7cal.png)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on January 18, 2019, 09:54:19 AM
I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
See Ipeters61's E-ZPass statement below, the mainline E-ZPass toll is indeed $4; which matches, for better or worse, the I-95/Delaware Turnpike toll.  The fore-mentioned $1 E-ZPass toll was for southbound traffic leaving at Exit 2 & northbound traffic entering at Exit 2.

(E-ZPass statement)
From what I observed, the tolls apply to exiting traffic southbound and entering traffic northbound.  So if I get on at Exit 2, for example, and drive northbound to Exit 5, then I pay $1 to enter at Exit 2, but don't pass through a gantry to get off at Exit 5.

If I decide to turn around and head southbound at Exit 5 and get off at Exit 2, I don't pass through a gantry entering at Exit 5, but I pass through a gantry to get off at Exit 2 and pay $1.

If I get back on from Exit 5 to head northbound to Exit 9 or to DE-1, then I pass through a gantry to enter at Exit 5 and pay 75 cents.  At Exit 9 or DE-1, I don't pass through a gantry to leave US-301.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on January 18, 2019, 09:55:20 AM
I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...

Plus the Bay Bridge toll.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on January 18, 2019, 10:39:07 AM
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.
Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...
Plus the Bay Bridge toll.

One-way tolling eastbound.  Westbound no tolls.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 18, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
From the Who Didn't See This One Coming? department (sarcasm intentional). As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic. (https://www.cecildaily.com/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_fc1aeddd-fe7f-5fd9-bbb2-3e90ec8def3a.html?fbclid=IwAR2YGubQ9Ah_0LI75HPRwicJGeV_REO8tNYf5I0QKfCPD-pMropc-bYGDAM)

Quote from: CecilDaily.com article
WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.

WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.
The pic. in the article shows an 18-wheeler exiting from Wilson St. onto MD 282.

Quote from: Karen Carpenter of "The Carpenters" music duo
It's only just begun.
:popcorn:
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 18, 2019, 10:54:27 AM
From the Who Didn't See This One Coming? department (sarcasm intentional). As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic. (https://www.cecildaily.com/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_fc1aeddd-fe7f-5fd9-bbb2-3e90ec8def3a.html?fbclid=IwAR2YGubQ9Ah_0LI75HPRwicJGeV_REO8tNYf5I0QKfCPD-pMropc-bYGDAM)

Quote from: CecilDaily.com article
WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.

WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.
The pic. in the article shows an 18-wheeler exiting from Wilson St. onto MD 282.

Quote from: Karen Carpenter of "The Carpenters" music duo
It's only just begun.
:popcorn:
Wow in the article it says the Md Towns mayors are now going to “sitdown and talk with officals”.

Hundreds of cars on once quiet streets, how well do these people know the roads? Or is waze working hard in redirecting people? Looks like Maryland is gonna build that exit ramp quicker then we expected.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2019, 11:06:17 AM
There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.

If there's no traffic, 1 to 95 to 295 is fine.  If there is traffic, usually 13/40 is kinda slow as well anyway, especially as one nears 295.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

ixnay

To put it simply, traffic flow is graded on a scale of A - F.  LOS A is free-flowing traffic, and traffic can pretty much go whatever speed they want.  LOS B & C means traffic is moving, but flow is somewhat limited by moderate traffic.  LOS D & E has increasing amounts of congestion.  LOS F is congested.

These are often looked at during traffic studies.  Depending on the study, periods of the day will be broken down (ie: Overnight, rush hour, daytime, evening, weekend, etc).  For many traffic agencies, the goal will be to average an LOS C or better whenever possible.  Often that isn't possible during rush hours, but if an upcoming improvement project improves traffic flow to a rating of A, B or C (especially if there's currently periods where daytime traffic is operating at D or worse), then they'll tradeoff some rush hour congestion for better traffic flow the rest of the day.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2019, 11:15:29 AM
Because we often think of things as "What have you done for me yesterday", we forget how long these projects have actually been talked about.

Here's DelDOT's website info regarding public meetings.  Notice the dates of the meetings: https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/public.shtml

As for Maryland having any involvement in the project, DelDOT also has webpages with that info, including detailing at least a dozen officials being involved:
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_diversion_wg.shtml
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_div_wg_members.shtml
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 18, 2019, 11:20:42 AM
Because we often think of things as "What have you done for me yesterday", we forget how long these projects have actually been talked about.

Here's DelDOT's website info regarding public meetings.  Notice the dates of the meetings: https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/public.shtml

As for Maryland having any involvement in the project, DelDOT also has webpages with that info, including detailing at least a dozen officials being involved:
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_diversion_wg.shtml
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_div_wg_members.shtml

Do these names ring any bells?

US 301 Toll Diversion Working Group Members
Bonny Anderson, Resident
Warwick Area

John Bunnell, Mayor
Town of Cecilton

Michael Cooper, President
Cecilton Volunteer Fire Company

Roy Crow, County Commissioner
Kent County Board of Commissioners

Capt. Bill Dofflemyer, Commander
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Division
Maryland State Police

Barry Janney, Sheriff
Cecil County Sheriff’s Office

Bill Kiessling, Mayor
Town of Chesapeake City

Richard Lindsay, District Engineering, District 2
Maryland State Highway Administration

William Manlove, County Commissioner
Cecil County Board of Commissioners

Harry Pisapia, Mayor
Town of Galena

Chris Powell, Chief
Galena Volunteer Fire Company

John F. Price, Sheriff
Kent County Sheriff’s Office

Douglas Simmons, Deputy Administrator
Maryland State Highway Administration

Dennis Simpson, Deputy Director, Capital Planning
Maryland Transportation Authority

Mark Tudor, Project Manager
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 18, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
Because we often think of things as "What have you done for me yesterday", we forget how long these projects have actually been talked about.

Here's DelDOT's website info regarding public meetings.  Notice the dates of the meetings: https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/public.shtml

As for Maryland having any involvement in the project, DelDOT also has webpages with that info, including detailing at least a dozen officials being involved:
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_diversion_wg.shtml
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_div_wg_members.shtml
Two items/remedies notably absent from all the above are:
1. Realigning & extending Middletown Warwick Rd. to existing US 301 in MD & build a new intersection/interchange.
2. Placing the mainline AET gantries inside the southernmost interchange (Exit 2) rather than south of it.

Either one of those solutions would keep the through-truck traffic off the smaller, local roads in Cecil County MD.

Yes, I get the fact that the new US 301 expressway in DE needed to be a tolled facility in order for such to become a reality sooner rather than later; I am not disputing such.  But such should never come at the expense of replacing/eliminating the main-free through-fare (stopping Middletown Warwick Rd. at Strawberry Lane).

And even if such has been discussed/planned for decade(s); extortion is still extortion.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2019, 12:35:20 PM
Because we often think of things as "What have you done for me yesterday", we forget how long these projects have actually been talked about.

Here's DelDOT's website info regarding public meetings.  Notice the dates of the meetings: https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/public.shtml

As for Maryland having any involvement in the project, DelDOT also has webpages with that info, including detailing at least a dozen officials being involved:
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_diversion_wg.shtml
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_div_wg_members.shtml
Two items/remedies notably absent from all the above are:
1. Realigning & extending Middletown Warwick Rd. to existing US 301 in MD & build a new intersection/interchange.
2. Placing the mainline AET gantries inside the southernmost interchange (Exit 2) rather than south of it.

Either one of those solutions would keep the through-truck traffic off the smaller, local roads in Cecil County MD.

Yes, I get the fact that the new US 301 expressway in DE needed to be a tolled facility in order for such to become a reality sooner rather than later; I am not disputing such.  But such should never come at the expense of replacing/eliminating the main-free through-fare (stopping Middletown Warwick Rd. at Strawberry Lane).

And even if such has been discussed/planned for decade(s); extortion is still extortion.

Upthread it was asked if Maryland had any input into the project.  Using the web, I showed that clearly Maryland had plenty of input into the project.  They all either agreed to the tolling concept, or had the opportunity to disagree with it. 

So if any items or remedies were excluded, that's something that should've been talked about and discussed long ago.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on January 18, 2019, 02:11:14 PM
When the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) first opened, the tollbooths in Newark weren't the only ones in the system.  Southbounders that exited off earlier paid a lower toll at the ramps.  Northbounders that entered onto I-95 beyond the mainline toll plaza had to pay at separate but lower toll at the booths upon entering.  As mentioned before in other threads, the original plan was that once the bonds that built the road were paid off; all of the tollbooths were to be taken down and the Delaware Turnpike was to become a free-interstate.  The removal of the I-95 ramp tolls was the first phase of such a phase-out/conversion but the final phase (the removal of the mainline tolls), sadly IMHO, never happened.  And this was back when the tolls were much lower & reasonable.
With respect to I-95, if I had set up tolls back then, I would have put booths inside exit 3, with ramp tolls to/from the west for exits 3 and 4, and ramp tolls to/from the east for exit 4.  Such would not have targeted primarily out of state traffic and, had it been done, I-95 would probably be toll-free today (since the two-stage plan they had created an irresistible cash cow).  I wonder if US 301 will go the same way.

I-95 has (barely) enough interchanges for a ticket system, but with the exits so close, they probably didn't want to have people go through that many booths.

Quote
As mentioned earlier, a couple of the direct-shunpike component routes south of Exit 2 have had long-standing through-truck prohibitions on them.  I don't see such changing anytime soon.  For cars traveling south on US 301 but exiting prior to the mainline AET gantry; one still pays a toll, though much lower, upon exiting.  Such action isn't a full shunpike per se, just a cost savings.
But my point was, with respect to your proposal to put the gantries inside the interchange, they would be easy to bypass: just get off, stop at the light if needed, then go straight and get back on.  Certainly easier and more convenient than going down the back roads of MD.

Speaking of the ramp tolls, they sure disincentive stopping for food/gas on the side of the road, because then you're incurring an even HIGHER toll.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 18, 2019, 04:58:15 PM
Upthread it was asked if Maryland had any input into the project.  Using the web, I showed that clearly Maryland had plenty of input into the project.  They all either agreed to the tolling concept, or had the opportunity to disagree with it. 

So if any items or remedies were excluded, that's something that should've been talked about and discussed long ago.
While I agree with your last sentence in principle; it is painfully obvious based on real-world observations in the posted-article upthread (dated this past Wednesday), that talking/discussing about it a lot is much different than actually experiencing it.

As mentioned earlier, a couple of the direct-shunpike component routes south of Exit 2 have had long-standing through-truck prohibitions on them.  I don't see such changing anytime soon.  For cars traveling south on US 301 but exiting prior to the mainline AET gantry; one still pays a toll, though much lower, upon exiting.  Such action isn't a full shunpike per se, just a cost savings.
But my point was, with respect to your proposal to put the gantries inside the interchange, they would be easy to bypass: just get off, stop at the light if needed, then go straight and get back on.  Certainly easier and more convenient than going down the back roads of MD.
While true, given that the ramp intersections at DE 299 are signalized; if more vehicles attempt to do such a maneuver, such would cause traffic to back-up onto the main roadway.  I.e. a smaller version of what has been happening along I-95 southbound approaching DE 896 (does one keep moving & pay the higher toll or does one exit off to save $3 but sits at a traffic light?).

A paired-remedy to discourage the maneuver that you described would be to have warning/regulatory signs posted at the ramp & intersection as well as stationed patrols at the interchange.  IMHO, such would be more productive than having patrols on Wilson St./Strawberry Ln. and Sassfrass Rd.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 19, 2019, 08:28:02 AM
If the new 301 had remained free, one assumes that it would still be u/c at this point.  In that scenario, would the current gov't shutdown have brought construction to a halt?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 19, 2019, 09:11:52 AM
If the new 301 had remained free, one assumes that it would still be u/c at this point.  In that scenario, would the current gov't shutdown have brought construction to a halt?

ixnay

No. Why would it?  Is any other road construction project in the country (hundreds of not thousands) affected by the current shutdown?

Also, most projects are contracted to private contractors, so even state shutdowns may not affect construction. That all depnds on what the governor wants to do though.


Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 19, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
If the new 301 had remained free, one assumes that it would still be u/c at this point.  In that scenario, would the current gov't shutdown have brought construction to a halt?

ixnay

No. Why would it?  Is any other road construction project in the country (hundreds of not thousands) affected by the current shutdown?

Also, most projects are contracted to private contractors, so even state shutdowns may not affect construction. That all depnds on what the governor wants to do though.

Clarification:  I was mainly referring to the release of money.  When road appropriations are enacted, when is the money actually distributed to the state(s)/counties/municipalities involved?  Immediately, and all at once, or incrementally on a schedule?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: MASTERNC on January 22, 2019, 08:17:46 AM
Well it does seem like a lot of traffic is trying to avoid the tolls

https://www.myeasternshoremd.com/kent_county_news/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_4a5bc064-606e-5b81-9f25-909f0c8eb65a.html
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on January 22, 2019, 02:29:07 PM
Well it does seem like a lot of traffic is trying to avoid the tolls

https://www.myeasternshoremd.com/kent_county_news/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_4a5bc064-606e-5b81-9f25-909f0c8eb65a.html
I hate to break it to you but that Kent County News article is the exact same article (& author) as the Cecil Daily article I posted a few days ago (reposted below)

As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic. (https://www.cecildaily.com/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_fc1aeddd-fe7f-5fd9-bbb2-3e90ec8def3a.html?fbclid=IwAR2YGubQ9Ah_0LI75HPRwicJGeV_REO8tNYf5I0QKfCPD-pMropc-bYGDAM)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on January 22, 2019, 02:55:41 PM
Well it does seem like a lot of traffic is trying to avoid the tolls

https://www.myeasternshoremd.com/kent_county_news/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_4a5bc064-606e-5b81-9f25-909f0c8eb65a.html
I hate to break to you but that Kent County News article is the exact same article (& author) as the Cecil Daily article I posted a few days ago (reposted below)

As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic. (https://www.cecildaily.com/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_fc1aeddd-fe7f-5fd9-bbb2-3e90ec8def3a.html?fbclid=IwAR2YGubQ9Ah_0LI75HPRwicJGeV_REO8tNYf5I0QKfCPD-pMropc-bYGDAM)

Probably under the same ownership. I see this happen often with Gannett and McClatchy stories (for the big chains) and also some smaller, regional chains.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 22, 2019, 05:24:59 PM
Well it does seem like a lot of traffic is trying to avoid the tolls

https://www.myeasternshoremd.com/kent_county_news/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_4a5bc064-606e-5b81-9f25-909f0c8eb65a.html
I hate to break to you but that Kent County News article is the exact same article (& author) as the Cecil Daily article I posted a few days ago (reposted below)

As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic. (https://www.cecildaily.com/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_fc1aeddd-fe7f-5fd9-bbb2-3e90ec8def3a.html?fbclid=IwAR2YGubQ9Ah_0LI75HPRwicJGeV_REO8tNYf5I0QKfCPD-pMropc-bYGDAM)

Probably under the same ownership. I see this happen often with Gannett and McClatchy stories (for the big chains) and also some smaller, regional chains.

The Kent News and the Cecil Whig (powering cecildaily.com) are part of the Adams Publishing Group.

https://adamspg.com/markets/

https://adamspg.com/markets/#marylandhttps://adamspg.com/markets/#maryland

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on January 22, 2019, 06:02:11 PM
This. This is what is complete BS.

"With active enforcement, we believe the trucking community will understand that avoiding the toll is not an option."

https://www.myeasternshoremd.com/kent_county_news/spotlight/as-bypass-opens-warwick-sees-increased-traffic/article_4a5bc064-606e-5b81-9f25-909f0c8eb65a.html

Wow, that's a bold move to make. Telling truckers they aren't allow to bypass a toll.

IMHO, I hope there is some legal action taken on all this scandal. Delaware has stated before, their intent is to rip truckers off and that most revenue would come from their high tolls, mainly the out of state ones.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: seicer on January 22, 2019, 09:27:45 PM
There are alternate routes for trucks to take that don't involve rumbling down local routes not designed for them. Enforcement happens in other areas of the nation where trucks try to shunpike to varying degrees. Nothing new.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on January 22, 2019, 10:08:34 PM
There are alternate routes for trucks to take that don't involve rumbling down local routes not designed for them. Enforcement happens in other areas of the nation where trucks try to shunpike to varying degrees. Nothing new.
I disagree, this was a free route before the highway was built, saying that you HAVE to pay the toll is pretty unreasonable, I could see if they said “We have a toll route that is much faster but you have to pay this amount” or you can take the free way & wait at all the lights & traffic. Do you suggest the trucks take I-95 or any other route that leads from MD to Delaware? How would this argument be if cars couldn’t bypass the highway? Would people be ok with paying $4 just to go to amazon to go to work, or the home depot or to get some food? It’s unjust. When they banned trucks from route 4 in Delaware, it made sense, why because the trucks were clearly shunpiking the toll. But heres the catch..... 896, & 40 are right there & guess what, they are free to use & no bans are on it against trucks. So I assume Delaware will be filing a lot of lawsuit paperwork, maybe thats what they wanted, so they HAVE to build the free route, who knows, we will see in the coming months.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Duke87 on January 23, 2019, 01:08:56 AM
The thing is, the roads in question have had thru truck bans since long before the toll road was even planned. It's not like those bans exist to force trucks to pay the toll. They exist for reasons of roadway geometry and noise control.

More the failing here seems to be with the design of the tollway itself - namely that there is no way to get from 301 in MD to old 301 in DE without paying a toll or using these other back roads that never had a reason to see much traffic before. If they had built a half diamond interchange at Strawberry Ln, or placed the mainline gantry north of exit 2 and made that the "last exit before toll" (or even simply allowed exiting there from the south to incur a significantly reduced rate), then this would not be an issue.

But, this would have meant making it easier to shunpike - the current setup is clearly designed to maximize the inconvenience incurred doing so in order to maximize revenue.


I will also note that a lot of the traffic through Warwick (at least southbound traffic) is likely from vehicles following outdated GPSes. Said GPS will tell them to continue straight down old 301 (which as far as the device knows is still 301), and the driver will then do so until suddenly they are confronted with a T intersection that renders them unable to continue following the GPSes instructions. At this point the driver will likely make a right turn both because it's easier than a left and because it goes towards Maryland (or perhaps simply because it's what the vehicles in front of them seem to be doing), and then after a little "recalculating...", their GPS will route them through Warwick and back to 301 via Sassafrass Rd.

I do find it interesting, though, that Cecilton and Galena are complaining about increased traffic - outdated GPSes aren't doing that, that's people deliberately shunpiking. And likely via their own creativity as well - if I ask Google for directions from Wilmington to Queenstown and check "avoid tolls", it routes me down DE 1 to DE 72 to DE 71 to old 301 and through Warwick... not via 213
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 23, 2019, 06:11:17 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 23, 2019, 06:13:33 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay

No.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on January 26, 2019, 08:15:03 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay

No.

How doggedly do the authorities enforce the truck bans on 40 and Christina Parkway?

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2019, 08:47:45 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay

No.

How doggedly do the authorities enforce the truck bans on 40 and Christina Parkway?

ixnay

What is your obsession with thinking there's a truck ban on Rt. 40?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on January 26, 2019, 11:18:22 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay

No.

How doggedly do the authorities enforce the truck bans on 40 and Christina Parkway?

ixnay

What is your obsession with thinking there's a truck ban on Rt. 40?
Calm, calm. I checked Maryland's truck restrictions and there are none on 40 at the border. Delaware restrictions overweight trucks to those heading to/from the south on 896 but does not appear to restrict normal-weight trucks. I did find an article naming DE 4 and DE 281, but no mention of 40. So let's just put this to bed with facts. (As far as DE 4/Christina Pkwy., enforcement is apparently not specifically targeted, but they will stop any trucks they notice if a patrol car happens to be on the route.)
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 27, 2019, 08:10:26 AM
I rarely use U.S. 40 between MD 781 (Delancy Rd.) and Glasgow, DE.  Is that stretch signed as prohibiting thru trucks?

ixnay

No.

How doggedly do the authorities enforce the truck bans on 40 and Christina Parkway?

ixnay

What is your obsession with thinking there's a truck ban on Rt. 40?
Calm, calm. I checked Maryland's truck restrictions and there are none on 40 at the border. Delaware restrictions overweight trucks to those heading to/from the south on 896 but does not appear to restrict normal-weight trucks. I did find an article naming DE 4 and DE 281, but no mention of 40. So let's just put this to bed with facts. (As far as DE 4/Christina Pkwy., enforcement is apparently not specifically targeted, but they will stop any trucks they notice if a patrol car happens to be on the route.)

Not irate...Just not understanding why Rt 40 keeps getting mentioned!

On my limited trips on Rt. 4, I don't recall seeing any cops out there waiting for a trucker, nor do I recall seeing any trucks pulled over.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 05, 2019, 10:23:43 PM
Troopers In Delaware, Maryland Target Commercial Vehicles Bypassing New Route 301 Toll Road
March 4, 2019

Delaware – In response to safety and citizen concerns, The Delaware State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit joined forces with the Maryland State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Unit and conducted a joint operation to target commercial vehicles that were bypassing the new U.S. Route 301 toll road, according to Director of Public Information Sergeant Richard D. Bratz .

The two-day operation was conducted on Thursday, February 28th and Friday, March 1st. The units staggered their hours so that enforcement was done from 5:00 a.m. through midnight. During the two day operation, 85 commercial motor vehicles were stopped and found to be bypassing the tolls. As a result, 85 commercial motor vehicle inspections were conducted. 77 traffic citations and 50 written warnings were issued for various offenses. Two unsafe trucks were put out of service and one driver was placed out of service. Additional operations will be conducted in the near future.

“The mission of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit (CMVEU) is to enhance highway safety by preventing commercial motor vehicle-related crashes and ensuring the safe, secure transportation of persons and property by commercial motor vehicles. We achieve this mission by conducting commercial motor vehicle Inspections, conducting traffic enforcement, completing motor carrier investigations and safety audits, and by outreach and education. During this operation, the primary goal was to keep commercial vehicles from traveling on roadways that are prohibited for their use. We have worked with DELDOT officials to ensure that there is proper signage to alert the truck drivers. We also keep an open dialogue with the drivers themselves to explain the issues caused by them using the wrong roadways. Through enforcement and education, we hope to greatly lower the number of violators which will in turn make our roadways safer,” said Sergeant John Samis, Supervisor of the Commercial Vehicle Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit Delaware State Police.

“We are grateful to both the Delaware State Police and Maryland State Police for their ongoing efforts to address commercial trucks who are attempting to avoid toll collection. Local roads are not intended for use by commercial traffic which negatively impacts the local communities and road conditions,” said Secretary of Transportation Jennifer Cohan.


-----
http://firststateupdate.com/2019/03/troopers-in-delaware-maryland-target-commercial-vehicles-bypassing-new-route-301-toll-road/?fbclid=IwAR03l8m8FMNn5xlx4wBOR8SKFF7QUByoA56sXF4dQBmjmhcZpb7ldIDyZw8
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 05, 2019, 10:49:59 PM
Troopers In Delaware, Maryland Target Commercial Vehicles Bypassing New Route 301 Toll Road
March 4, 2019

Delaware – In response to safety and citizen concerns, The Delaware State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit joined forces with the Maryland State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Unit and conducted a joint operation to target commercial vehicles that were bypassing the new U.S. Route 301 toll road, according to Director of Public Information Sergeant Richard D. Bratz .

The two-day operation was conducted on Thursday, February 28th and Friday, March 1st. The units staggered their hours so that enforcement was done from 5:00 a.m. through midnight. During the two day operation, 85 commercial motor vehicles were stopped and found to be bypassing the tolls. As a result, 85 commercial motor vehicle inspections were conducted. 77 traffic citations and 50 written warnings were issued for various offenses. Two unsafe trucks were put out of service and one driver was placed out of service. Additional operations will be conducted in the near future.

“The mission of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit (CMVEU) is to enhance highway safety by preventing commercial motor vehicle-related crashes and ensuring the safe, secure transportation of persons and property by commercial motor vehicles. We achieve this mission by conducting commercial motor vehicle Inspections, conducting traffic enforcement, completing motor carrier investigations and safety audits, and by outreach and education. During this operation, the primary goal was to keep commercial vehicles from traveling on roadways that are prohibited for their use. We have worked with DELDOT officials to ensure that there is proper signage to alert the truck drivers. We also keep an open dialogue with the drivers themselves to explain the issues caused by them using the wrong roadways. Through enforcement and education, we hope to greatly lower the number of violators which will in turn make our roadways safer,” said Sergeant John Samis, Supervisor of the Commercial Vehicle Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit Delaware State Police.

“We are grateful to both the Delaware State Police and Maryland State Police for their ongoing efforts to address commercial trucks who are attempting to avoid toll collection. Local roads are not intended for use by commercial traffic which negatively impacts the local communities and road conditions,” said Secretary of Transportation Jennifer Cohan.


-----
http://firststateupdate.com/2019/03/troopers-in-delaware-maryland-target-commercial-vehicles-bypassing-new-route-301-toll-road/?fbclid=IwAR03l8m8FMNn5xlx4wBOR8SKFF7QUByoA56sXF4dQBmjmhcZpb7ldIDyZw8
Maybe they should accept that truckers are going to avoid a high toll no matter how they like it or not. It's messed up that they're forced to pay the toll with no legal way to avoid it, and that should be illegal in itself. Not every trucker wants to pay $10 one-way, and if one is going back and fourth several times in a day, that can add up real quick, and the trucker suffers. Meanwhile, the police sit over here targeting these people who don't want to pay ridiculously expensive tolls out of their own pockets, handing out tickets like they're candy with no care or regard to the trucker himself. I'm surprised lawsuits have not been filed yet against Delaware, complete BS in my opinion. This operation needs to be shutdown and an efficient shun-piking route needs to be set up, and not force a $10 toll as one crosses the border, or a risk at a hefty fine for avoiding it.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on March 06, 2019, 12:53:09 AM
Troopers In Delaware, Maryland Target Commercial Vehicles Bypassing New Route 301 Toll Road
March 4, 2019

Delaware – In response to safety and citizen concerns, The Delaware State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit joined forces with the Maryland State Police Commercial Motor Vehicle Unit and conducted a joint operation to target commercial vehicles that were bypassing the new U.S. Route 301 toll road, according to Director of Public Information Sergeant Richard D. Bratz .

The two-day operation was conducted on Thursday, February 28th and Friday, March 1st. The units staggered their hours so that enforcement was done from 5:00 a.m. through midnight. During the two day operation, 85 commercial motor vehicles were stopped and found to be bypassing the tolls. As a result, 85 commercial motor vehicle inspections were conducted. 77 traffic citations and 50 written warnings were issued for various offenses. Two unsafe trucks were put out of service and one driver was placed out of service. Additional operations will be conducted in the near future.

“The mission of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit (CMVEU) is to enhance highway safety by preventing commercial motor vehicle-related crashes and ensuring the safe, secure transportation of persons and property by commercial motor vehicles. We achieve this mission by conducting commercial motor vehicle Inspections, conducting traffic enforcement, completing motor carrier investigations and safety audits, and by outreach and education. During this operation, the primary goal was to keep commercial vehicles from traveling on roadways that are prohibited for their use. We have worked with DELDOT officials to ensure that there is proper signage to alert the truck drivers. We also keep an open dialogue with the drivers themselves to explain the issues caused by them using the wrong roadways. Through enforcement and education, we hope to greatly lower the number of violators which will in turn make our roadways safer,” said Sergeant John Samis, Supervisor of the Commercial Vehicle Motor Vehicle Enforcement Unit Delaware State Police.

“We are grateful to both the Delaware State Police and Maryland State Police for their ongoing efforts to address commercial trucks who are attempting to avoid toll collection. Local roads are not intended for use by commercial traffic which negatively impacts the local communities and road conditions,” said Secretary of Transportation Jennifer Cohan.


-----
http://firststateupdate.com/2019/03/troopers-in-delaware-maryland-target-commercial-vehicles-bypassing-new-route-301-toll-road/?fbclid=IwAR03l8m8FMNn5xlx4wBOR8SKFF7QUByoA56sXF4dQBmjmhcZpb7ldIDyZw8 (http://firststateupdate.com/2019/03/troopers-in-delaware-maryland-target-commercial-vehicles-bypassing-new-route-301-toll-road/?fbclid=IwAR03l8m8FMNn5xlx4wBOR8SKFF7QUByoA56sXF4dQBmjmhcZpb7ldIDyZw8)
Maybe they should accept that truckers are going to avoid a high toll no matter how they like it or not. It's messed up that they're forced to pay the toll with no legal way to avoid it, and that should be illegal in itself. Not every trucker wants to pay $10 one-way, and if one is going back and fourth several times in a day, that can add up real quick, and the trucker suffers. Meanwhile, the police sit over here targeting these people who don't want to pay ridiculously expensive tolls out of their own pockets, handing out tickets like they're candy with no care or regard to the trucker himself. I'm surprised lawsuits have not been filed yet against Delaware, complete BS in my opinion. This operation needs to be shutdown and an efficient shun-piking route needs to be set up, and not force a $10 toll as one crosses the border, or a risk at a hefty fine for avoiding it.
Can't file a lawsuit until you're charged with something for evading the toll. It'll happen by the end of the year, I imagine.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 06, 2019, 01:22:45 AM
Troopers In Delaware, Maryland Target Commercial Vehicles Bypassing New Route 301 Toll Road
Can't file a lawsuit until you're charged with something for evading the toll. It'll happen by the end of the year, I imagine.

The article is heavily slanted toward suggesting a violation for "evading the toll", when in fact the phrase "keep commercial vehicles from traveling on roadways that are prohibited for their use" is the actual violation being charged, IOW local roads not designed for large trucks, with large trucks prohibited.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: BrianP on March 06, 2019, 10:24:09 AM
I think truckers will figure out a suitable alternative if they need it enough.  I'm not sure it's a valid truck route but I think this could be suitable:

Heading north from US 301:
MD 313, MD 213, MD 282, DE 299, DE 71, DE 896
Or they could just use MD 213 up to US 40. 
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: hbelkins on March 06, 2019, 11:28:38 AM
Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: cl94 on March 06, 2019, 11:35:09 AM
Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?

With the exception of former US 301, yes. Prior to the toll road, trucks were only allowed on then-current 301.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 06, 2019, 11:46:02 AM
Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?

With the exception of former US 301, yes. Prior to the toll road, trucks were only allowed on then-current 301.
As previously stated many posts back, had the new road been built parallel to the old route at the state line rather than placed over such; those smaller local roads would not be seeing the surge in through-truck traffic.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: CtrlAltDel on March 06, 2019, 04:57:56 PM
During the two day operation, 85 commercial motor vehicles were stopped and found to be bypassing the tolls. As a result, 85 commercial motor vehicle inspections were conducted. 77 traffic citations and 50 written warnings were issued for various offenses. Two unsafe trucks were put out of service and one driver was placed out of service.

The way this is phrased suggests that drivers didn't get any citations for evading the tolls. The police just gave a vehicle inspection to those trucks of those that they thought were evading the tolls and citing them if or when they failed the inspection.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 06, 2019, 05:12:57 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road. The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders). It's slightly out of the way, but it would give a toll-free option instead of forcing a toll. Or, the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.

I'm not a fan of toll roads, though I'm more understanding when they're on new location. Traffic can still take the old route with no issues. That's how the VA-168 relocation here in Chesapeake, VA is. The old route remains a free (and very popular) shunpiking route as it was before the toll road was built. This US 301 bypass was built on new location, but it also upgraded existing roadway, and is configured to not allow traffic to use the old route like before without paying a high state line crossing toll. It should be free until Exit 2, a frontage road is built, or the existing eastern route is improved to standard 2-lane standards and allows trucks. The existing situation is unacceptable, and places a burden on trucks who have to pay $10-14 one-way, and if they commute that route let's say 4 times per day, that's $40-56 per day forced out of their pockets with no legal route to avoid it, and some cannot afford that.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 06, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 06, 2019, 09:18:36 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.

So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 06, 2019, 10:22:11 PM
That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?
All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.
So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.

The problem with the local roads is that they don't have the width or pavement depth to handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on March 06, 2019, 10:25:32 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on March 06, 2019, 10:26:15 PM
That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?
All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.
So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.

The problem with the local roads is that they don't have the width or pavement depth to handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
There are no heavy volumes. Did you see that they conducted a full day assessment and caught 88 trucks (or 85)? That's like 5 or 6 an hour.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 06, 2019, 10:34:13 PM
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 06, 2019, 10:47:43 PM
It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.
It's happened before. The 2001 relocation of VA-168 as a toll road is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8, and Dominion Blvd only collects tolls from traffic who cross the Veterans Bridge, every other part of the highway is free to all traffic, even though toll financing went into part of that. The West Virginia Turnpike collects tolls at only a few locations, yet it funds the entire roadway. The proposed I-81 tolling in Virginia would only have a few collection points, yet all 325 miles would receive improvements. An almost $1 billion expansion to 6 lanes between Christiansburg and Roanoke wouldn't collect tolls on that segment, even though it would get a massive expansion.

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
Less than 5 miles. The old US 301 is open as a frontage road from Middletown to the state line, but terminates. The only way to reach it is to take roads prohibited to trucks currently, which is the issue in discussion here. A two mile extension would be required on the Maryland side, plus about 3/4 mile of existing 1.5 lane road would need to be improved.

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.
But here's the issue. US 301 was four-lane divided until the state line where it suddenly went to two-lanes. About 2 miles of new freeway was built between the state line and Exit 2. They specifically designed the highway so you would be forced to ride 2 miles of the new toll road, and they located the most expensive toll collection ($3 for cars / almost $10 for trucks) at that point. Tolls should be collected for those who chose to ride the bypass, I agree with that. But when the design forces you onto the new roadway, and forces you through the most expensive collection point, and THEN let's you exit the bypass to still end up going into town, it's deceitful. Why should you have to pay a high toll to enter Delaware, to still go through town, yet to actually bypass the town and get a nice smooth ride, it's a cheap toll? The people riding the bypass fully should have to pay that expensive toll, not the people riding two miles and exiting at Exit 2.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
The only thing is, not every truck is going to divert. Plenty are fine with paying the hefty toll, and moving on with their day. Note the police trap set up last week only got 80 trucks in one day, most chose to use the new road. The whole point is options should be available for everyone, including trucks. I think the best solution as I've described above should be to eliminate tolling until Exit 2, then relocate the $3 / $9 state line collection toll north of this interchange. No massive road improvements would be needed in a solution like this, as those roads are well designed to carry truck traffic if a massive influx were to occur.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on March 06, 2019, 10:58:01 PM
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on March 06, 2019, 11:26:07 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on March 06, 2019, 11:29:06 PM
The ramp on De-1 was added before the toll going southbound. So they can easily do the same with the 301. Did they add the ramp on SB 1 before the toll because of the amount of High authority people living below the canal? Or citizens ties with the officials? I smell corruption.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alps on March 06, 2019, 11:44:07 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on March 06, 2019, 11:51:58 PM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before? Im just saying, it seems like you haven’t been in Delaware for years the way you speak about the roads. You are a very knowledgeable person but some you say is false. & I don’t have to see the road I used to do newspaper delivery in middletown from 2am to 6am & then I would be in middletown alot, So I know how the traffic flows down there & it’s getting heavier every year. So please double down on your facts & I was clearly to talking to you.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on March 07, 2019, 12:33:38 AM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before?
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 07, 2019, 12:43:26 AM
I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?

I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 

I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on March 07, 2019, 12:45:07 AM
I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before?
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth. & isn’t the point of this forum to have friendly debates about problems ? I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built. So excuse me If I like to have a debate with people that are in a forum that LIKE to do that. Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places. So for you to say

[Alps]-“You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.”

Is completely false & shows me that you do not live in Delaware anymore & have not been im Delaware for more than 5 minutes. Or you just go everywhere on a jet-ski or boat thru the canal. Either way traffic is getting worse & the urbanization is moving south.

(Edit @ 1:07 am)The same for you as well Alex, I respect you but just because you’re an admin that doesn’t mean im gonna bow down to you like you are supreme lord.


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Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 07, 2019, 01:00:53 AM
I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.
But here's the issue. US 301 was four-lane divided until the state line where it suddenly went to two-lanes. About 2 miles of new freeway was built between the state line and Exit 2. They specifically designed the highway so you would be forced to ride 2 miles of the new toll road, and they located the most expensive toll collection ($3 for cars / almost $10 for trucks) at that point. Tolls should be collected for those who chose to ride the bypass, I agree with that. But when the design forces you onto the new roadway, and forces you through the most expensive collection point, and THEN let's you exit the bypass to still end up going into town, it's deceitful. Why should you have to pay a high toll to enter Delaware, to still go through town, yet to actually bypass the town and get a nice smooth ride, it's a cheap toll? The people riding the bypass fully should have to pay that expensive toll, not the people riding two miles and exiting at Exit 2.

What is the response from DelDOT when queried about this configuration issue?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: 1 on March 07, 2019, 06:39:37 AM
(Edit @ 1:07 am)The same for you as well Alex, I respect you but just because you’re an admin that doesn’t mean im gonna bow down to you like you are supreme lord.

Alex4897 is not forum owner Alex.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ixnay on March 07, 2019, 08:18:49 AM
I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?

I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 

I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?

Alps was asking for the source of your AADT stat, Beltway.

ixnay
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 07, 2019, 08:41:27 AM
I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?
I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 
I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?
Alps was asking for the source of your AADT stat, Beltway.

It wasn't clear which item he was asking for the source of.   AADT comes from MSHA.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 07, 2019, 11:18:33 AM
the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.
That AET mainline toll rate for cars is actually $4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate.  That $3 you're posting is actually the difference (for E-ZPass rates) for southbound traffic staying on US 301 vs. taking Exit 2.

Personally, I'd place the mainline AET gantry within Exit 2.

Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years?
Actually at the earliest, he attended the Delaware Road Meet - 12/16/17 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21640.0) just over a year ago.  A sizable portion of the meet included checking out the then-still-under construction US 301 tollway... including the DE 299/Exit 2 overpass.  Based on your profile, you joined this forum several months prior to that meet; I'm surprised you didn't either attend or at least chime in in that thread.

Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed.
While Middletown has certainly seen some build-up/development; the immediate areas beyond (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Middletown,+DE/@39.4705116,-75.7475342,15377m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c70bcf9d3982e9:0x429df6e46d2050c2!8m2!3d39.449556!4d-75.7163207) are still open & rural.

I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.

It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.

I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built.
Such is fine... for the Fictional Highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20.0) section of this forum.

Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.
Title: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Tonytone on March 07, 2019, 03:01:15 PM
the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.
That AET mainline toll rate for cars is actually $4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate.  That $3 you're posting is actually the difference (for E-ZPass rates) for southbound traffic staying on US 301 vs. taking Exit 2.

Personally, I'd place the mainline AET gantry within Exit 2.

Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years?
Actually at the earliest, he attended the Delaware Road Meet - 12/16/17 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21640.0) just over a year ago.  A sizable portion of the meet included checking out the then-still-under construction US 301 tollway... including the DE 299/Exit 2 overpass.  Based on your profile, you joined this forum several months prior to that meet; I'm surprised you didn't either attend or at least chime in in that thread.

I was still new to the forum, so I didnt really know how this worked. I was happy I found the forum, I didn’t think anyone talked about stuff like this. That being said when another Delaware road meet is gonna happen, Ill surly join.

Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed.
While Middletown has certainly seen some build-up/development; the immediate areas beyond (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Middletown,+DE/@39.4705116,-75.7475342,15377m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c70bcf9d3982e9:0x429df6e46d2050c2!8m2!3d39.449556!4d-75.7163207) are still open & rural.

[/quote]
Yes & if you look at the New Castle County GIS Map. Alot of those rural spaces will be gone soon.

I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.

[/quote]
I brought this up because people seem to think Delaware doesn’t get Truck Traffic. Especially the old 301 & new 301. That said, Middletown has truck traffic all night & all day.

It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.

[/quote]
Same shit different areas, why did you not bring up the other things I talked about regarding the 301 & Ramp placements.

I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built.
Such is fine... for the Fictional Highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20.0) section of this forum.
[/quote]
Agreeable.

Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.

[/quote]

Ok I agree, but what is causing this? The fact that their is not a free ramp for people to get off of. Cause & effect. If they would have built the ramp or frontage road we wouldn’t have this conversation.

Edit:I need to learn how to do quotes.


iPhone
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 07, 2019, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: Tonytone
I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.
I brought this up because people seem to think Delaware doesn’t get Truck Traffic. Especially the old 301 & new 301. That said, Middletown has truck traffic all night & all day.
Having followed this particular thread for some time, I believe you might be misinterpreting those comments.  They're not saying that US 301 or Delaware, doesn't get any truck traffic at all; just a smaller percentage compared to the rest of the (US 301) corridor's overall traffic.  Nobody else is commenting regarding truck traffic along other Delaware highways because such isn't completely relevant to this thread.

Quote from: Tonytone
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.
Same shit different areas, why did you not bring up the other things I talked about regarding the 301 & Ramp placements.
Two things:
1. In the case of the I-95 tolls in Newark and the tolled sections of DE 1; there are alternate toll-free roadways that are authorized for truck usage.  Mainly because those expressways (I-95 & DE 1) were constructed to compliment not replace the older roadways.  Such a scenario no longer exists at US 301 at Middletown, DE/Warwick, MD border.

2. The subject of additional truck traffic in this thread was only focused on the nearby local roads near and south of the DE-MD state-line with respect to US 301.  The local roads in Warwick, MD didn't start seeing through-truck traffic until the recent opening the new US 301 tollway opening.  If one wants to have a discussion about truck traffic on other Delaware roadways; one can feel free to start a (new*) thread on such.   *Such a thread may already exist.

Quote from: Tonytone
Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.
Ok I agree, but what is causing this? The fact that their is not a free ramp for people to get off of.
Correct.

Cause & effect. If they would have built the ramp or frontage road we wouldn’t have this conversation.
Not only that, but this thread would only be half as long page & reply-wise.

Edit: I need to learn how to do quotes.
It takes a little practice.  Just get accustomed to doing a fair amount of copying & pasting the quote headers.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 25, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
This past Saturday afternoon, I had an opportunity to drive on the new road; I went as far as Exit 2 (DE 299) and turned around.  General observations.

1.  Some of the dashed lane striping, which included a thin black border on each side, was already missing/obliterated along on some stretches.

2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

3.  Traffic was very light; the total number of vehicles (including one truck) both down & back, I could count on one hand.  I'm sure such won't be the case as time progresses.  Such almost tempted me to cross the paved median (for police/emergency vehicles) located about 3/4 mile north of Exit 2 and bypass the round-trip $2 toll.  Given that I was in my black Crown Vic at the time; any unsuspecting passer-by from a distance might've thought "unmarked patrol car" in the median and not given it any thought.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Alex4897 on March 25, 2019, 11:24:31 AM
2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 25, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
I saw no VMS', specifically lit messages, until I was at/approaching until the actual interchange itself.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: Beltway on March 25, 2019, 11:36:16 AM
bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 

How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 25, 2019, 11:37:53 AM
bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 

How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
The toll on the roadway is $1 one-way, collected at the ramp toll collection points.

At the state line, an additional $3 is collected one-way.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 25, 2019, 01:13:58 PM
bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 
How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
The toll on the roadway is $1 one-way, collected at the ramp toll collection points.
Correct.  All interchanges between DE 1 and the MD State Line have AET gantries at each southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps.  My (E-ZPass) toll was $1 upon exiting southbound (@ Exit 2) and another $1 for getting right back on US 301 northbound at the same interchange.

At the state line, an additional $3 is collected one-way.
Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: sprjus4 on March 25, 2019, 02:55:38 PM
Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
So essentially, for locals it's $1 one-way if you traverse between interchanges. For thru-traffic going from DE-1 straight to Maryland, it's $4 one-way. If you're going from DE-1 to Maryland, get off to stop for gas, food, etc. then get back on US 301, you now pay $5 one-way, because of the state-line toll, and the exit toll. Then, if you go from Maryland to Middletown, ride 2 miles of the 13 mile roadway, you pay the full $4, the same rate as someone going the entire 13 miles would. And even better - trucks cannot shunpike it. They're forced onto it, even if they are going into Middletown.

It seems so counterintuitive. Who designed the system? Per-mile tolling seems to be a better solution IMHO. The more pavement you drive on, the more you pay. The less you drive on, the less you pay. Simple. That would be 60 cents for the first 2 miles for traffic entering town, and the full $4 rate for those traversing the entire road.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: PHLBOS on March 25, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
So essentially, for locals it's $1 one-way if you traverse between interchanges.
Reply #396 reposted below:
Quote from: PHLBOS
Here's breakdown of the passenger vehicle (car) tolls (E-ZPass & Toll-By-Plate).  Note: the Wiki source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_301_in_Delaware#cite_note-ezpassdefaq-5) contained a more direct one-page listing of the tolls whereas DelDOT's own website did not.

Exit/Interchange numbers added (in blue) to the below-quote where applicable:
Quote from: Wiki US 301 Delaware Write-Up
The road has a mainline toll gantry north of the Maryland border and ramp toll gantries on the southbound exits and northbound entrances at the DE 299, DE 71, and Jamison Corner Road interchanges.
The mainline toll gantry costs $4.00 using E-ZPass and $5.60 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles.

The ramp toll gantries cost $1.00 using E-ZPass and $1.40 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 299 interchange (Exit 2),

$0.75 using E-ZPass and $1.05 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 71 interchange (Exit 5),

and $0.50 using E-ZPass and $0.70 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the Jamison Corner Road interchange (Exit 9).
Your cited-$1 toll would only apply if one was using Exit 2 to leave or initially get on.  If southbounder got on at Exit 9 and got off at Exit 5, they'd pay $0.75.  Any northbounder would pay whatever toll that's charged at the interchange they entered.

For thru-traffic going from DE-1 straight to Maryland, it's $4 one-way. If you're going from DE-1 to Maryland, get off to stop for gas, food, etc. then get back on US 301, you now pay $5 one-way, because of the state-line toll, and the exit toll. Then, if you go from Maryland to Middletown, ride 2 miles of the 13 mile roadway, you pay the full $4, the same rate as someone going the entire 13 miles would.
Simple solution for such would be to either wait until one enters MD or don't get on the new US 301 until one makes that gas and/or food stop.  In DE, one can still access the old US 301 corridor before getting on the new US 301.  Depending on location, most of the former US 301 is either DE 896, 71 or 299.

And even better - trucks cannot shunpike it. They're forced onto it, even if they are going into Middletown.
The earlier-discussed truck toll issue is affects neighboring MD moreso than DE.  Mainly because the old/former US 301 still exists in DE north of Strawberry Lane in Middletown.  Local traffic will still utilize the old corridor even though its route number changed.

It seems so counterintuitive. Who designed the system? Per-mile tolling seems to be a better solution IMHO. The more pavement you drive on, the more you pay. The less you drive on, the less you pay. Simple. That would be 60 cents for the first 2 miles for traffic entering town, and the full $4 rate for those traversing the entire road.
You're preaching to the choir on that one.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2019, 08:36:07 PM
Who designed the system?
Someone who wants to ensure that as much of the toll burden as possible is borne by people from out of state.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on March 30, 2019, 08:55:31 PM
2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
I saw no VMS', specifically lit messages, until I was at/approaching until the actual interchange itself.
I was in the area today and noticed that the DE-1 SB VMS (north of the Roth Bridge) pointing traffic to US-301 is no longer there.  However, on US-13 south of the St. Georges Bridge, there's a set of (Clearview) signs waiting for installation, related to Exit 147 (US-301) and 148 (To US-13/South St. Georges).  All I could see was a gore sign for Exit 147 and some sign with an Exit 148 tab, but the rest were all facing away from the road, so I don't know what their purpose will be.
Title: Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
Post by: ipeters61 on April 13, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
Not to bump this thread, but I drove by that sign yard on US-13 by the St. Georges Bridge again today, and I discovered that there is a half sign in the pile that says "Annapolis - 2 Miles," which leads me to believe that a 2 Mile advance sign is planned to be put up for the exit.

Another interesting thing I saw was a sign with an Exit 10 tab.  I'm very curious as to what that will be referencing.