AARoads Forum

Regional Boards => Mid-Atlantic => Topic started by: BrianP on February 21, 2018, 01:36:57 PM

Title: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: BrianP on February 21, 2018, 01:36:57 PM
Delaware bridge design error to cost taxpayers an extra $1M (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/21/delaware-bridge-design-error-to-cost-taxpayers-an-/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS)
Quote
Delaware Department of Transportation spokesman C.R. McLeod told The News Journal of Wilmington on Monday those delays have added an extra $1 million to Del. 141 bridge’s cost. Mumford and Miller Concrete Inc. planned to begin construction last summer, but delays pushed the start date to fall.

The discovery of an asbestos conduit by workers slicing into the old structure delayed plans further. Delaware DOT says the conduit wasn’t included in the company’s $15.6 million design plans, but original bridge blueprints from the 1950s, which the company should have referenced, showed it.
Can the state get some money back for delays or something like that?  I suppose it's a case-by-case basis since I guess it depends on what's in the contract. 
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2018, 01:57:58 PM
It appears the problem occurred when the project design firm, hired by DelDOT, missed the duct.  They would be the ones as fault.

DelDOT can go after that firm for the money.  At the same time, the firm is going to say that DelDOT also should have had knowledge of the duct being that they also had the blueprints, reviewed the plans and were ok with everything. 

Here's a slightly more indepth article from the (Wilmington, DE) News Journal: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/02/19/del-141-bridge-mess-continue-into-march-cost-taxpayers-least-extra-million/351231002/

The article notes that DelDOT can submit a claim to get the money back.  Doing so though will probably cost DelDOT a firm they've done a lot of work with in the past.  Being that, according to the article, the project was greatly under-estimated in cost and time, there's plenty of blame to go around. 

The taxpayers will probably be eating the cost on this one...because most likely even if the duct was included in the demo plans, the million dollars would've been added onto the original bids anyway.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: ixnay on February 23, 2018, 08:11:58 AM
DelDOT's doing asbestos it can about this...

ixnay
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: roadman on February 23, 2018, 09:23:29 AM

Quote
DelDOT can go after that firm for the money.  At the same time, the firm is going to say that DelDOT also should have had knowledge of the duct being that they also had the blueprints, reviewed the plans and were ok with everything.

The generally accepted standard is that the designer of record is totally responsible for any foreseeable errors in their work product, even if the plans and specifications had been approved by the overseeing agency.  That's the reason that URS took the hit for the I-35W collapse, even though MnDOT chose not to adopt the preferred recommendations regarding interim repairs to the structure outlined in URS's reports.

Reputable engineering and design firms have insurance to cover such eventualities.

Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: mrcmc888 on March 01, 2018, 09:08:29 PM
I thought DE-141 had already been completed?
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: 74/171FAN on March 03, 2018, 09:28:23 AM
I would move this to Mid-Atlantic if I have the capability to.  -Mark
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: BrianP on March 19, 2018, 01:38:53 PM
I put this in the bridge category to possibly get an audience outside the mid-atlantic.  I mean it is about a bridge.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: Alps on March 19, 2018, 07:42:26 PM
I put this in the bridge category to possibly get an audience outside the mid-atlantic.  I mean it is about a bridge.
This one is really a specific problem though. We're discussing what goes in Bridges or not.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: hbelkins on March 20, 2018, 10:39:36 PM
Doing so though will probably cost DelDOT a firm they've done a lot of work with in the past.

Outside consulting/engineering firms are a dime a dozen. If that one quits doing business with Delaware, there will be three or four (or more) that will fill that vacuum.

If you detect a bit of dislike for those firms, you'd be correct. It's ridiculous that states pay these private entities big bucks when they have design engineers on staff.

And I say that with all due respect to my friends who work for these firms.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: cl94 on March 21, 2018, 10:31:13 AM
I thought DE-141 had already been completed?

Bwahahahahahahaha...nope. That thing was still closed when I was through the area on Monday.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 21, 2018, 11:46:01 PM
If you detect a bit of dislike for those firms, you'd be correct. It's ridiculous that states pay these private entities big bucks when they have design engineers on staff.

And I say that with all due respect to my friends who work for these firms.

IMO, the source of this problem is state legislatures. 

They want a lot of engineering work contracted-out to the private sector. 

In other cases (such as state toll roads), the trust agreement or indenture with the trustee that represents bondholders actually mandates that the toll road agency or authority have a reputable consulting civil engineering firm and maybe a different engineering firm that does traffic and revenue forecasts on retainer.
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: Beltway on March 22, 2018, 11:35:07 PM
If you detect a bit of dislike for those firms, you'd be correct. It's ridiculous that states pay these private entities big bucks when they have design engineers on staff.
And I say that with all due respect to my friends who work for these firms.
IMO, the source of this problem is state legislatures. 
They want a lot of engineering work contracted-out to the private sector. 
In other cases (such as state toll roads), the trust agreement or indenture with the trustee that represents bondholders actually mandates that the toll road agency or authority have a reputable consulting civil engineering firm and maybe a different engineering firm that does traffic and revenue forecasts on retainer.

Each side says that they can do it better than the other side.
[design consultant firm versus DOT in-house designers]
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: MASTERNC on March 26, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
This bridge re-opened today, per WDEL
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2018, 06:09:11 AM
This bridge re-opened today, per WDEL

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2018/03/26/route-141-basin-road-bridge-over-route-13-re-opens-new-castle/459509002/

The road surface looks like crap!
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: cl94 on March 28, 2018, 01:54:58 PM
This bridge re-opened today, per WDEL

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2018/03/26/route-141-basin-road-bridge-over-route-13-re-opens-new-castle/459509002/

The road surface looks like crap!

I hope that a mill and fill is part of the "remaining work".
Title: Re: Delaware Bridge Oops
Post by: TheGrassGuy on November 25, 2019, 07:25:40 AM
This bridge re-opened today, per WDEL

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2018/03/26/route-141-basin-road-bridge-over-route-13-re-opens-new-castle/459509002/

The road surface looks like crap!
It looks like the bridge is made out of salt