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Meta => Suggestions and Questions => Topic started by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 08:20:29 PM

Title: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 08:20:29 PM
Due to a recent rash of users posting inflammatory content in their user profiles, political content in your user profile—that's your signature, user title, avatar, username, anything else attached to your post that you have the ability to publicly display—is expressly prohibited as of May 31, 2018. The official rule is as follows:

Quote
Political content of any kind (statements of political affiliation, endorsement of or opposition to any candidate, content demeaning or attacking a political ideology, etc.) in your forum profile (signatures, user titles, avatars, et al.) is not allowed. The staff reserves the right to remove or edit content that an administrator judges to be political in nature.

(The exact wording of this rule may be tweaked in the next few days as necessary; I will do my best to keep this copy of it updated.) We will allow a short grace period for affected users to update their own profiles to be in compliance with the rule. After that, an administrator will remove the content from your profile on sight. I'm sure it goes without saying that if an admin removes political content from your signature and you put it back, further moderation action will be taken. But you all knew that already.

The existing political content rule for posts (that is it discouraged but not banned entirely so long as it pertains to roads) still applies. Let's keep the political drama on Facebook, okay? This is where we go to fight about fonts.

If you have any questions, this thread is open for discussion. Thanks for your participation in the forum, guys; I know it sucks having more rules to keep track of, but we want to keep this a place everyone enjoys coming to.

[Edited to promote text to purple. -S.]
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1 on May 31, 2018, 08:25:06 PM
Do I need to change my avatar?
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 08:31:56 PM
Do I need to change my avatar?

Any case that isn't totally clear-cut would have to be determined by consensus of the mod staff, but with that asterisk on it, I would say no, you won't have to. With this change, we're looking more at clearly partisan things such as expressing support or disdain for particular political parties, ideologies, or individual politicians.

[Edited to promote text to purple. -S.]
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Takumi on May 31, 2018, 09:21:13 PM
Do I need to change my avatar?

Any case that isn't totally clear-cut would have to be determined by consensus of the mod staff, but with that asterisk on it, I would say no, you won't have to. With this change, we're looking more at clearly partisan things such as expressing support or disdain for particular political parties, ideologies, or individual politicians.
And if someone changes theirs to individual forum members? Hypothetically speaking...
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 09:36:03 PM
Do I need to change my avatar?

Any case that isn't totally clear-cut would have to be determined by consensus of the mod staff, but with that asterisk on it, I would say no, you won't have to. With this change, we're looking more at clearly partisan things such as expressing support or disdain for particular political parties, ideologies, or individual politicians.
And if someone changes theirs to individual forum members? Hypothetically speaking...

That is covered by an existing rule:
Quote
Posting harassing or insulting remarks towards another member. Later editing or deleting your post does not absolve you from punishment. Learn respect.

[Edited to promote text to purple. -S.]
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: hbelkins on June 01, 2018, 01:52:32 PM
Once again, a few malcontents ruin everything for everybody. One size fits all. Baby with the bathwater. And etc. (sic)



Addendum: I probably should clarify. In my perception, this really wasn't an issue until a couple of people turned it into one. Instead of merely using a signature or profile comment to communicate their own feelings or ideologies, they instead chose to complain about people who do/did. Had they left the matter alone, this wouldn't have happened. But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 02:56:12 PM
Suits me just fine.  Anyone who doesn't like it is free to use their personal freedom and leave.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1 on June 01, 2018, 04:22:20 PM
"one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

Rules apply to everyone equally.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 04:27:54 PM
Once again, a few malcontents ruin everything for everybody. One size fits all. Baby with the bathwater. And etc. (sic)



Addendum: I probably should clarify. In my perception, this really wasn't an issue until a couple of people turned it into one. Instead of merely using a signature or profile comment to communicate their own feelings or ideologies, they instead chose to complain about people who do/did. Had they left the matter alone, this wouldn't have happened. But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

It really sounds like you should start your own forum, where you can make as many (or as few) rules you like.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1 on June 01, 2018, 04:31:04 PM
Once again, a few malcontents ruin everything for everybody. One size fits all. Baby with the bathwater. And etc. (sic)



Addendum: I probably should clarify. In my perception, this really wasn't an issue until a couple of people turned it into one. Instead of merely using a signature or profile comment to communicate their own feelings or ideologies, they instead chose to complain about people who do/did. Had they left the matter alone, this wouldn't have happened. But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

It really sounds like you should start your own forum, where you can make as many (or as few) rules you like.

bugo tried that. It didn't work.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: hbelkins on June 01, 2018, 04:37:19 PM

It really sounds like you should start your own forum, where you can make as many (or as few) rules you like.

Or you could have taken your own advice before the change was made...

Suits me just fine.  Anyone who doesn't like it is free to use their personal freedom and leave.

 :bigass:
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 04:53:12 PM

It really sounds like you should start your own forum, where you can make as many (or as few) rules you like.

Or you could have taken your own advice before the change was made...

Suits me just fine.  Anyone who doesn't like it is free to use their personal freedom and leave.

 :bigass:

Nah, I'll stay.  I like it better now, not being smacked in the face with unsolicited political opinions  :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass:
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 04:55:42 PM
bugo tried that. It didn't work.

Unmoderated forums tend to be cesspools.  The one at the old fuckedcompany.com (don't get mad at me, I didn't name it) sure was.  More recently, there are certain subreddits (some are enormously helpful, some..not so much).

Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 01, 2018, 06:18:28 PM

bugo tried that. It didn't work.

He was supposedly hacked.  You'd have to ask him for details
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: webny99 on June 01, 2018, 08:23:00 PM
But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

To me, the issue was just as much, if not more, about unequal treatment than it was about politics in signatures. How long you've been around, been roadgeeking, etc, has no bearing whatsoever on forum rules. A rule isn't a rule unless one size does fit all - or what's the point of having a rule at all?
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: MNHighwayMan on June 01, 2018, 09:48:51 PM
But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.
To me, the issue was just as much, if not more, about unequal treatment than it was about politics in signatures. How long you've been around, been roadgeeking, etc, has no bearing whatsoever on forum rules. A rule isn't a rule unless one size does fit all - or what's the point of having a rule at all?

I also thought that the difference between what was allowed in posts, and what was allowed in user profiles, to be weird and inconsistent.

By the way, can I campaign for the next Alan for the Grand Unified Alan of Alanland in my signature, or is that banned by this policy too? :bigass:
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 09:57:28 PM
But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.
To me, the issue was just as much, if not more, about unequal treatment than it was about politics in signatures. How long you've been around, been roadgeeking, etc, has no bearing whatsoever on forum rules. A rule isn't a rule unless one size does fit all - or what's the point of having a rule at all?

I also thought that the difference between what was allowed in posts, and what was allowed in user profiles, to be weird and inconsistent.

By the way, can I campaign for the next Alan for the Grand Unified Alan of Alanland in my signature, or is that banned by this policy too? :bigass:

Alan isn’t running for Grand Unified Alan. Also, Alan is running for Grand Unified Alan.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: hbelkins on June 01, 2018, 10:33:56 PM
I've made no secret of my preference for unmoderated forums. If someone says something you don't like, you can respond in kind or you can ignore them. You don't go crying to someone to complain about how you're being treated. You need to put on your big boy or girl pants and deal with it. But the sad truth is, this place is all there is. Usenet's on life support (and I blame Usenet's overall decline for m.t.r.'s demise, not any specific problems with that specific group.). Ditto for the Yahoo groups. Facebook groups aren't totally open, either, and we have several here who won't have anything to do with Facebook. (Although there's at least one roadgeek of long standing who refuses to come here; he's expressed his displeasure for php-based forums in the past, but I don't know if he has an issue with the format in general or this forum in particular). So if one wants to discuss roads, by default this is pretty much where you have to go. But I have to say that a conduct of a few members of the roadgeek community (here and elsewhere, and this thread is a good example why) is sucking the joy out of my interest.

But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

To me, the issue was just as much, if not more, about unequal treatment than it was about politics in signatures. How long you've been around, been roadgeeking, etc, has no bearing whatsoever on forum rules. A rule isn't a rule unless one size does fit all - or what's the point of having a rule at all?

You have a lot to learn about how things work in the real world. In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life. I had a judge tell me a few years ago that I would be treated differently should I ever come into his courtroom than others because of many of those factors I mentioned. I know that I take those things into account when I interact with others, including on this forum. I will give deference and respect to the long-timers, including those with whom I don't particularly get along, because they have earned it.

Using your logic, cops should write speeding tickets to everyone who goes 1 mph over the limit because a rule is a rule.

Get back to me in about 25 years and tell me how you feel about the matter then.


Nah, I'll stay.  I like it better now, not being smacked in the face with unsolicited political opinions  :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass: :bigass:

So tell me. If you're driving down the street and you see a bumper sticker supporting a candidate you don't like, what do you do? Do you mutter a few opinions under your breath, or vocalize them if you have a passenger, and then go on? Or do you complain to the DOT and get them to ban bumper stickers entirely? Here's another real-life lesson. You're going to encounter opinions with which you disagree every day, everywhere. You need to learn to deal with it instead of whining and complaining about it. I've had to come to terms with it. (Although I'm sure you didn't mind reading NE2's political comments in his sig/in his profile.) You just didn't want to see something you disagreed with.

"one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

Rules apply to everyone equally.

Then I expect you'll be removing your profile picture.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 11:17:00 PM
I highly recommend you continue whining about how everyone but you is a whiner.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 01, 2018, 11:19:55 PM
And what is political about being anti-hate, exactly? Is being anti-kicking puppies political now? Anti-clubbing baby seals?
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 02, 2018, 12:00:04 AM
So tell me. If you're driving down the street and you see a bumper sticker supporting a candidate you don't like, what do you do? Do you mutter a few opinions under your breath, or vocalize them if you have a passenger, and then go on? Or do you complain to the DOT and get them to ban bumper stickers entirely? Here's another real-life lesson. You're going to encounter opinions with which you disagree every day, everywhere. You need to learn to deal with it instead of whining and complaining about it. I've had to come to terms with it. (Although I'm sure you didn't mind reading NE2's political comments in his sig/in his profile.) You just didn't want to see something you disagreed with.

But herein lies the real point.  Does a bumper sticker telling the world which candidate you support do anything positive for the public discourse?  I would argue that it doesn't.  I am always curious why people think they need to share that information.  Why does anyone think that the first thing that another person needs to know about them is who they supported in the last election?  It seems kind of socially clueless.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Rothman on June 02, 2018, 12:13:18 AM
I like moderation of forums.  I find it easier to deal with issues when there are moderators than dealing with the incessant profane and garbage that infests unmoderated forums.  We have enough nonsense on this forum as is; removing the moderators would be disastrous.

I remember and probably participated in some of the useless, space-sucking trolling and blather on m.t.r. back in the day (late 1990s?).  It wasn't utopia by a long shot.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Alps on June 02, 2018, 12:23:06 AM
This is a forum, so we are not subject to uphold freedom of expression. We choose to be consistent with how we restrict it in order to further on-topic discourse.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Hurricane Rex on June 02, 2018, 02:16:20 AM
Is my signature ok (the raise the speed limit ODOT part) or not? I got a complaint in school that that portion of the signature was political but I personally don't think so. I just don't want to end on the wrong side of things.

LG-TP260

Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: MNHighwayMan on June 02, 2018, 03:48:44 AM
I've made no secret of my preference for unmoderated forums.

Go talk roads over on 4chan then. You'll get your wish.

Quote
If someone says something you don't like
AKA no politics stuff in your profile.
Quote
you can respond in kind
Like write excessive posts about how that's all wrong.
Quote
or you can ignore them. You don't go crying to someone to complain about how you're being treated.
(emphasis added)
Umm…

The irony is kind of palpable, here.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Scott5114 on June 02, 2018, 05:58:39 AM
Is my signature ok (the raise the speed limit ODOT part) or not? I got a complaint in school that that portion of the signature was political but I personally don't think so. I just don't want to end on the wrong side of things.

As I mentioned upthread, we are mostly looking at content advocating for or against specific politicians, parties, or ideologies. Advocating for a DOT to do something is road-related and therefore perfectly fine.

Addendum: I probably should clarify. In my perception, this really wasn't an issue until a couple of people turned it into one. Instead of merely using a signature or profile comment to communicate their own feelings or ideologies, they instead chose to complain about people who do/did. Had they left the matter alone, this wouldn't have happened. But they made a big splash over it, and thus we have the "one size fits all" approach that doesn't differentiate between forum/MTR/roadgeeking veterans and rookies.

This change was not made due to a complaint by any given user. To my knowledge, we did not receive any direct complaints addressed to us from the user base. I proposed the policy change myself and it was approved by the other moderators. I did so because I had personally noticed a rising number of political messages in user profiles, several of which were more inflammatory than those in the past. The other moderators agreed that they had noticed the same trend and expressed a desire to address it before it became a problem.

So if you're looking someone to throw under the bus on this one, that person is me.

By the way, can I campaign for the next Alan for the Grand Unified Alan of Alanland in my signature, or is that banned by this policy too? :bigass:

As long as you don't specify Alan who!  :sombrero:
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 08:46:15 AM
I did not make any direct complaints to any mods or admins. I mentioned in a few posts (or, in hbelkins-speak, “whined”) and figured it would either be addressed or it wouldn’t. I also tried adding my political beliefs to my sig, realized that was stupid and not germane to a forum about fucking roads, and deleted it.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 08:51:18 AM
So tell me. If you're driving down the street and you see a bumper sticker supporting a candidate you don't like, what do you do? Do you mutter a few opinions under your breath, or vocalize them if you have a passenger, and then go on? Or do you complain to the DOT and get them to ban bumper stickers entirely? Here's another real-life lesson. You're going to encounter opinions with which you disagree every day, everywhere. You need to learn to deal with it instead of whining and complaining about it. I've had to come to terms with it. (Although I'm sure you didn't mind reading NE2's political comments in his sig/in his profile.) You just didn't want to see something you disagreed with.

But herein lies the real point.  Does a bumper sticker telling the world which candidate you support do anything positive for the public discourse?  I would argue that it doesn't.  I am always curious why people think they need to share that information.  Why does anyone think that the first thing that another person needs to know about them is who they supported in the last election?  It seems kind of socially clueless.

For the same reasons you see Drink Coca-Cola signs everywhere: See enough of those and you might drink Coca-Cola. See enough Hackenbush for President bumper stickers and you might vote for Hackenbush.

Personally, I don’t put political bumper stickers on my car. My dad had his car vandalized after he put one on his car, and I really don’t want to be accosted in a parking lot by another person because they don’t like it (or like it, for that matter).
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1995hoo on June 02, 2018, 09:14:39 AM
I’ve never understood the appeal of political bumper stickers applied as they’re intended to be (that is, as stickers on a painted surface) because by definition most of them will be outdated soon enough but can’t be easily removed and they then gradually fade, peel, etc, and wind up looking dumb. I still regularly see cars with both McCain/Palin and Obama stickers (funny, the Obama ones seldom include Biden). I think all of those look kind of dumb because they’re obsolete and they’re generally fading. If I ever feel any motivation to put a political sticker on the car, I’ll tape it inside the rear window so I can remove it after the election (regardless of the outcome)—or, in 2016, I got a magnet instead because the Libertarians offered those as an alternative to stickers (I still removed it the morning after Election Day).
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: oscar on June 02, 2018, 09:56:41 AM
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine), though I have non-political stickers to do that job. Also, to remind people that not all Prius owners conform to political stereotype, or that there are non-Democrats in Virginia's bluest county.

I still see Kerry for President bumper stickers left over from the 2004 campaign. They are of course rather weatherbeaten.

I don't normally remove (with a heat gun, to soften the adhesive) political stickers until the next campaign rolls around, especially when I oppose plans to run again by the politico for whom I had previously voted (that's happened twice). For some of my "hold my nose" choices, the sticker went on shortly before the election, and came off the day after.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1995hoo on June 02, 2018, 10:11:21 AM
^^^

Regarding distinguishing a car from similar ones, back in the 1980s my father had a silver 1982 Accord (he later sold it to me). That was perhaps one of the most ubiquitous cars on the road at the time, so to make it easier to distinguish at the mall or the like, he took an expired Fairfax County decal (orange, if memory serves) and put it in the top corner of the rear window. It worked great....until one year at state inspection time the guy made him remove it because "your car has only one sideview, so that sticker is obstructing your view." That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, of course, but it turns out the inspection regulations did indeed say that cars with no passenger-side mirror aren't supposed to have any decals or stickers in the rear window. (Stupid rule, since the sideview mirrors aren't supposed to show you what's behind you....) Enforcement of that was seriously spotty—I had the standard university-name decals in the rear window of that car and they never caused it to fail inspection.

My father has never liked bumper stickers, so maybe I inherited my view on them from him.

BTW, the bumper stickers I think are dumber than political ones are the "my kid made honor roll" or the like. Spencer Gifts (a store I sometimes visit for off-color birthday and Christmas cards) had a response in the form of a sticker that said something like, "This pedophile had sex with your honor roll student." I laughed, but never in a million years could I imagine being stupid enough to put something like that on a car.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 02, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
I have a Jefferson Highway sticker and a Pig Trail Byway sticker on the back of my van.  My previous van had a "I support the right to keep and arm bears" bumper sticker, but the SCA vendor I bought it from has disappeared.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 10:33:57 AM
I’ve never understood the appeal of political bumper stickers applied as they’re intended to be (that is, as stickers on a painted surface) because by definition most of them will be outdated soon enough but can’t be easily removed and they then gradually fade, peel, etc, and wind up looking dumb. I still regularly see cars with both McCain/Palin and Obama stickers (funny, the Obama ones seldom include Biden). I think all of those look kind of dumb because they’re obsolete and they’re generally fading. If I ever feel any motivation to put a political sticker on the car, I’ll tape it inside the rear window so I can remove it after the election (regardless of the outcome)—or, in 2016, I got a magnet instead because the Libertarians offered those as an alternative to stickers (I still removed it the morning after Election Day).

I think some people leave them on after the election to show they were pleased/displeased with the results of the election. That seemed to start around 2004.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 10:35:37 AM
^^^

Regarding distinguishing a car from similar ones, back in the 1980s my father had a silver 1982 Accord (he later sold it to me). That was perhaps one of the most ubiquitous cars on the road at the time, so to make it easier to distinguish at the mall or the like, he took an expired Fairfax County decal (orange, if memory serves) and put it in the top corner of the rear window. It worked great....until one year at state inspection time the guy made him remove it because "your car has only one sideview, so that sticker is obstructing your view." That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, of course, but it turns out the inspection regulations did indeed say that cars with no passenger-side mirror aren't supposed to have any decals or stickers in the rear window. (Stupid rule, since the sideview mirrors aren't supposed to show you what's behind you....) Enforcement of that was seriously spotty—I had the standard university-name decals in the rear window of that car and they never caused it to fail inspection.

My father has never liked bumper stickers, so maybe I inherited my view on them from him.

BTW, the bumper stickers I think are dumber than political ones are the "my kid made honor roll" or the like. Spencer Gifts (a store I sometimes visit for off-color birthday and Christmas cards) had a response in the form of a sticker that said something like, "This pedophile had sex with your honor roll student." I laughed, but never in a million years could I imagine being stupid enough to put something like that on a car.

The less incendiary one is “My kid beat up your honor roll student.” I do find the “my kid made honor roll” ones to be pretty smug.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: froggie on June 02, 2018, 11:09:32 AM
Quote
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine),

Isn't that what license plates are for?
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 02, 2018, 11:22:33 AM
The idea of bumper stickers just kind of make me laugh:

<internal monologue>"What an excellent lane change that driver just made... maybe I should vote for Ross Perot too..."</internal monologue>
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1995hoo on June 02, 2018, 11:23:47 AM
Quote
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine),

Isn't that what license plates are for?


My father's rationale for it was that the orange decal in the window made it easier to see which car was his from a distance that was far enough that you couldn't see the license plates (bearing in mind it wasn't uncommon to see ten or more similar-looking cars parked in close proximity because of that model's popularity at the time).

I suppose nowadays an easier way is just to hit the button on the remote to set off the car alarm, assuming doing so won't cause problems for other reasons. Wasn't an option on the Accord back in the 1980s, obviously.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: bandit957 on June 02, 2018, 11:27:48 AM
Do I need to change my avatar?

If poo.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: bandit957 on June 02, 2018, 11:28:17 AM
Once again, a few malcontents ruin everything for everybody.

The magic word!
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: bandit957 on June 02, 2018, 11:38:53 AM
I had a "UNION YES" sticker on my bike. They do make "UNION NO" stickers, but I've never seen anyone dare to use one.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 01:30:19 PM
Quote
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine),

Isn't that what license plates are for?


My father's rationale for it was that the orange decal in the window made it easier to see which car was his from a distance that was far enough that you couldn't see the license plates (bearing in mind it wasn't uncommon to see ten or more similar-looking cars parked in close proximity because of that model's popularity at the time).

I suppose nowadays an easier way is just to hit the button on the remote to set off the car alarm, assuming doing so won't cause problems for other reasons. Wasn't an option on the Accord back in the 1980s, obviously.

Remember the little antenna toppers they used to make? They had one that loooed like the Union 76 ball and one that looked like the Jack in the Box clown head. They were also intended for people to be able to easily find their cars.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: 1995hoo on June 02, 2018, 01:43:46 PM
Quote
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine),

Isn't that what license plates are for?


My father's rationale for it was that the orange decal in the window made it easier to see which car was his from a distance that was far enough that you couldn't see the license plates (bearing in mind it wasn't uncommon to see ten or more similar-looking cars parked in close proximity because of that model's popularity at the time).

I suppose nowadays an easier way is just to hit the button on the remote to set off the car alarm, assuming doing so won't cause problems for other reasons. Wasn't an option on the Accord back in the 1980s, obviously.

Remember the little antenna toppers they used to make? They had one that loooed like the Union 76 ball and one that looked like the Jack in the Box clown head. They were also intended for people to be able to easily find their cars.

Heh, it's funny you mention those, because this thread made me think of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer met his long-lost bastard half-brother who owned a car company and asked Homer to help design a car for everyman. Homer wanted one of those little balls put on the antenna, not that you'd have needed any help finding that monstrosity!

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/05/TheHomer.png/revision/latest?cb=20090908145331)
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: jon daly on June 02, 2018, 02:09:10 PM
The only political car bumper sticker I've seen recently that I liked was a KENNEDY/JOHNSON one on some 1960 vintage car that a guy was driving on I-95 south of Providence. But its vintageness was its appeal; not its political statement.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: J N Winkler on June 02, 2018, 03:11:16 PM
I think bumper stickers are partly a matter of cultural norms as well as personal preference, the culture in question being that of your subgroup rather than your country as a whole.  I don't allow bumper stickers, stick people, dealer identification, etc. on my cars because I consider them non-U, but I try to be tolerant of other people's bumper stickers and recognize that some (especially the nonpolitical ones) are in better taste than others.

I don't rely on stickers, decals, license plates, etc. to pick out my car in a parking lot.  Parking nose-in is the norm, so I am usually in the minority parking nose-out, especially in parking stalls where this is impossible without reversing in.  The Toyota Camry I use as a roadtrip vehicle was the top-selling sedan in 2005 (433,703 units sold, just behind the Ford F-Series and Chevrolet Silverado), so I often see vehicles that match its body style and color inside and out, but matching grille and taillight configuration are somewhat rarer, and matching wheel style, trim level, and engine are much more rare.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 03:39:25 PM
I once saw a bumper sticker that read “CAUTION: This Vehicle Makes Frequent Stops At Your Mom’s House.” It was so juvenile, I laughed and laughed.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Takumi on June 02, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
The only political car bumper sticker I've seen recently that I liked was a KENNEDY/JOHNSON one on some 1960 vintage car that a guy was driving on I-95 south of Providence. But its vintageness was its appeal; not its political statement.
There’s an old Ford truck on my street with Nixon and Reagan/Bush stickers. Given the age, they might be original.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: oscar on June 02, 2018, 07:25:16 PM
Quote
My bumper stickers are useful to more easily distinguish my blue Prius from all the others in my community, especially when there are others in the store parking lot (once there were two others right next to mine),

Isn't that what license plates are for?

That helps, if you've memorized your plate number.

I just bought a new car (still keeping the Prius), which is also common in my area and nondescript. I still haven't memorized its plate number. So I intend to add at least one sticker, to help me spot my own car. I'm looking for an apolitical magnetic sticker I bought but couldn't use on my Prius (aluminum hatch, plastic bumper cover), and slap it on the new car's steel hatch to help me with the transition.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 07:53:46 PM
I remember my last license plate in DC was EH 5858. It was easy to remember, because “eh” was exactly how I felt about living in DC by that point.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: webny99 on June 02, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life.

But that's not a good thing, is it?
It depends on the specifics, of course. Age, experience, etc., can rightfully affect rule enforcement in certain cases, but with regard to politics in signatures, or really any rule on a roads forum, you can't make a case that experience ought to make you exempt. You should have no more difficulty complying than anyone else; any argument to the contrary can only be rooted in selfishness.

Quote
Using your logic, cops should write speeding tickets to everyone who goes 1 mph over the limit because a rule is a rule.

That's a complete strawman. My logic isn't that rules should be enforced strictly; rather, they should be enforced consistently. Lenience for everyone is OK, and strict enforcement for everyone is also OK. What isn't OK is different people getting different treatment (which is what this thread ultimately addresses).

Quote
Get back to me in about 25 years and tell me how you feel about the matter then.

If anything, I'll be even more convinced that injustices that exist should be fixed.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: NE2 on June 02, 2018, 10:55:32 PM
In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life.

But that's not a good thing, is it?
It is when you're privileged.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: hbelkins on June 02, 2018, 11:08:36 PM
In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life.

But that's not a good thing, is it?

Yes, it is. Otherwise, what's the point in working for years trying to build goodwill, a good reputation, and respect, if it is to no advantage for you? Of course, it's "the right thing to do," but there should be benefits in doing so. Otherwise, I'd just go hide quietly in the corner and not put myself out there, either in my physical community or this virtual community.

I think bumper stickers are partly a matter of cultural norms as well as personal preference, the culture in question being that of your subgroup rather than your country as a whole.  I don't allow bumper stickers, stick people, dealer identification, etc. on my cars because I consider them non-U, but I try to be tolerant of other people's bumper stickers and recognize that some (especially the nonpolitical ones) are in better taste than others.

I have a handful of stickers on mine.

Two have roadgeek themes -- a Bridge Walk sticker from the New River Gorge bridge and a reflective "Yield" sign that was given out at one of the booths at a conference I went to a few years ago.

The other two have sports themes -- UK Wildcats and Dale Earnhardt.

(edited to remove inflammatory content - do not call out other users)
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2018, 11:18:29 PM
Might be time to lock this thread anyway, we can talk about bumper stickers and antenna toppers elsewhere.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: NE2 on June 02, 2018, 11:46:33 PM
Otherwise, I'd just go hide quietly in the corner and not put myself out there, either in my physical community or this virtual community.
Please do this. It'll make the world a better place.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US 89 on June 03, 2018, 01:44:20 AM
In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life.

But that's not a good thing, is it?

Yes, it is. Otherwise, what's the point in working for years trying to build goodwill, a good reputation, and respect, if it is to no advantage for you? Of course, it's "the right thing to do," but there should be benefits in doing so. Otherwise, I'd just go hide quietly in the corner and not put myself out there, either in my physical community or this virtual community.

The benefit of working to build goodwill and a good reputation is that it builds other people’s respect for you. New users look up to the long-established old-timers. That’s a good thing, and certainly something to work towards.

But the thing is, you can’t just ask for special treatment just because you’ve been around longer. This is an Internet forum, and everyone is treated as equals on here (the phrase “equal justice under law” summarizes this rather well: the rules should be applied equally to everyone). If a certain user was given more leniency and special treatment than other users, they’d be seen as a more important member of the community, above other users. The danger in that is that it could imply that older users are better than newer ones, so the opinions of the newer users don’t matter as much as those of older users. That’s not a healthy environment, and it certainly isn’t conducive to new users joining. I know I wouldn’t join if I knew my voice could just get shouted down every time I said something someone might disagree with. Plus, some people just weren’t around for the “old days” and it isn’t fair to punish them for something they had absolutely no control over.

By the way, I think this forum does a great job of keeping the discussions fair, with everyone contributing as equals and no one user dominating the conversation (unless, of course, it’s an admin or mod doing their job). I also appreciate the moderation here: for the most part it isn’t too strict, but it’s enough to keep us from devolving into political and personal attacks, spam, trolling, and the like.



Otherwise, I'd just go hide quietly in the corner and not put myself out there, either in my physical community or this virtual community.
Please do this. It'll make the world a better place.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 03, 2018, 09:03:22 AM

Yes, it is. Otherwise, what's the point in working for years trying to build goodwill, a good reputation, and respect, if it is to no advantage for you? Of course, it's "the right thing to do," but there should be benefits in doing so. Otherwise, I'd just go hide quietly in the corner and not put myself out there, either in my physical community or this virtual community.

It sounds like you're calling for a Caste System...a "them vs us"
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 03, 2018, 09:56:04 AM
“What’s in it for me?” is definitely the question that could be at the front of any Christian’s mind.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: J N Winkler on June 03, 2018, 10:19:52 AM
I speak only for myself, of course, but I find it difficult to wrap my head around the very idea of bringing consciousness of whatever status I may have to this or any other Web forum dedicated to a special interest.  I generally find that it takes about six months to a year of steady contributions (preferably without strong political coloration) to be accepted by other users as a part of the epistemic landscape, and once that happens, there are no further rungs to climb on the ladder.  The primary benefit of "original gangster" standing is not enhanced respect from the user community at large, but rather institutional memory.  Whatever respect I have from other users comes from knowing a few things about signs, not because I have been on this forum almost from the start, and on MTR since the early noughties.

Hbelkins is not the first to suggest that "original gangsters" are owed deference from newer users and more leeway from moderators.  Bugo expressed the same sentiments in his dispute with Zeffy a few years ago but was not able to command consensus support for this view from other forum users.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 03, 2018, 11:03:26 AM
Doesn’t look like H. Belkins is commanding consensus support now, either.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 03, 2018, 11:30:32 AM
Of course, in the SCA one is expected to bow and scrape to royalty, but (most) people know that is for fun as come Monday morning, the King goes back to driving his beer truck and the Queen goes back to indoctrinating teaching young minds.  :-D

Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: abefroman329 on June 03, 2018, 12:09:42 PM
So the depiction of SCA in Role Models was pretty accurate, then.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: GaryV on June 03, 2018, 12:15:15 PM
I found out in high school, all those years ago, that the "good" kids could get away with more than the "bad" kids.  Teachers gave a bit more leniency before coming down on them for minor infractions, that those with a reputation would not get.

I'm a moderator on another (non-road-related) forum and I get H's point somewhat.  If someone new creates an account and 2 of his first 3 posts are controversial, those posts will get deleted immediately and the user will be IM'd a warning.  Or maybe get banned outright, depending on the severity of the infraction.  A member in longstanding will have the post questioned and be warned about future behavior.  Perhaps a word or sentence will be edited out of the post.

Is that a double-standard?  Sure.  But if the body of evidence is that a poster is not a habitual problem-child, moderators are more likely to act differently.  But that doesn't allow carte blanche to the old-timers. 

This isn't a political forum, so users shouldn't be expecting to see "I support XXX for YYY" messages, in posts or signatures.  Certainly politics plays a part in roads, building and maintenance, so someone posting that a government official supports roads should not be out of line.  Just don't link to his campaign website.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 03, 2018, 12:20:26 PM
So the depiction of SCA in Role Models was pretty accurate, then.

Never watched it
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: webny99 on June 03, 2018, 02:57:51 PM
In just about every aspect of life, things such as age, seniority, education, experience, knowledge, status in the community (this does NOT mean economic status), your personal history, and so on, these things are taken into account into how rigidly the rules are enforced. Different people get leeway with certain things and that's just a fact of life.

But that's not a good thing, is it?
Yes, it is. Otherwise, what's the point in working for years trying to build goodwill, a good reputation, and respect, if it is to no advantage for you? Of course, it's "the right thing to do," but there should be benefits in doing so.

The way I see it, being respected, having a good reputation, and so on, actually are the benefits that come with experience. I don't think additional benefits (like being exempt from rules, etc.) are called for, nor are they precedented.

US 89 did an excellent job of explaining this concept in his post above.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: formulanone on June 03, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
Yeah, I have a family bumper sticker, because nothing else really matters...

(https://scontent-ort2-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/b826657a72b7943ea0ca1d6510a3f821/5BBED658/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e35/13129510_1070303903028550_1784987477_n.jpg)

...well, that and old video games. In the end, nobody really gives a crap. Or carp?

Some of you kept crossing the lines every chance you got, and spoiled it. You want un-moderated discussion? Fine, gather everyone into a room and give everyone a 10-foot-long sharpened stick, because that's what it's like. Just give the loudest assholes the chance to derail every discussion every time out, and see how long it takes for things to go down the drain...
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: Beltway on June 03, 2018, 03:18:12 PM
But the thing is, you can’t just ask for special treatment just because you’ve been around longer. This is an Internet forum, and everyone is treated as equals on here (the phrase “equal justice under law” summarizes this rather well: the rules should be applied equally to everyone). If a certain user was given more leniency and special treatment than other users, they’d be seen as a more important member of the community, above other users. The danger in that is that it could imply that older users are better than newer ones, so the opinions of the newer users don’t matter as much as those of older users. That’s not a healthy environment, and it certainly isn’t conducive to new users joining. I know I wouldn’t join if I knew my voice could just get shouted down every time I said something someone might disagree with. Plus, some people just weren’t around for the “old days” and it isn’t fair to punish them for something they had absolutely no control over.

I have been posting in online roads forums since 1997 and have developed and hosted major roads websites since 1997.  My study of the topic and knowledge base goes back to 1970 and some of the photos I have posted I took that long ago.

Nevertheless, I don't expect any special treatment with regard to the enforcement of rules on moderated forums.  Seems to me that they should be applied equally and fairly to everyone.
Title: Re: UPDATED: User profile political content restrictions
Post by: US71 on June 03, 2018, 05:41:21 PM
“What’s in it for me?” is definitely the question that could be at the front of any Christian’s mind.

Not "any" Christian, but many, perhaps. Some are good people, but their voices are often drowned out by the cacophony of those expecting special dispensation.