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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: i-215 on January 17, 2019, 10:22:27 PM

Title: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: i-215 on January 17, 2019, 10:22:27 PM
There are a lot of quirks coast to coast that most of us don't get to see, until we visit the state.  For instance, those weird jughandle left turns throughout New Jersey.

I'm curious what's the weirdest stuff in your region?
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1 on January 17, 2019, 10:47:34 PM
Rotaries.

"School SLOW Crossing" signs, and various other three word phrases.

Driving in the breakdown lane being legal in some cases.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: oscar on January 17, 2019, 10:57:48 PM
In Alaska, lots of state-maintained roads but very few of them have route numbers (only a dozen numbers in use, 1-11 and 98), and route number markers are scarce or non-existent on the rural numbered routes. Not so much the DOT's doing, as that locals in Alaska (like their counterparts in the Canadian Arctic) really don't give a crap about route numbers.

Another quirk is that milemarkers follow named, rather than numbered, routes. For example, driving south on AK 1 from Anchorage, the milemarkers descend to 38, then start ascending again on the other side of Tern Lake Junction as AK 1 switches from one named route to another. AK 2 does two milemarker resets, in Delta Junction (WB from 1422 to 266) and Fairbanks (WB from 362 to 0).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 17, 2019, 10:59:16 PM
In Washington State, WSDOT has a few odd quirks: inset, center-aligned (http://bit.ly/2QYGZwq) exit tabs (except in SW); welded-box  (http://bit.ly/2FzWiKP)sign gantries (never seen this anywhere else); black-on-white (http://bit.ly/2CxRNwa) HOV signs (once common but now a party of one). There's also no sign salads on state routes. All route guidance is through guide signs.

In British Columbia, flashing green orbs (https://www.tranbc.ca/2014/10/03/flashing-green-lights-and-what-they-mean/) for pedestrian crossings; 8-inch arrows (http://bit.ly/2Dh07SB) are still the norm as well, at least near-side. Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on January 17, 2019, 11:05:39 PM
MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: NoGoodNamesAvailable on January 17, 2019, 11:19:24 PM
NYS:
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DaBigE on January 17, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
WI:

MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

An idea either borrowed from or stolen from Wisconsin (https://wisconsindot.gov/rdwy/sdd/sd-15c35.pdf#sd15c35-a), at the very least
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 18, 2019, 01:39:47 AM
In recent years, Maine has become less unique in their signing practices, both for the sake of cost saving and conforming to MUTCD standards. One thing that I haven't seen elsewhere, however, are the wide use of weather related speed reduction signs (https://goo.gl/maps/DStXmkpVSXK2). During severe winter weather, both MaineDOT and the Maine Turnpike Authority reduce the speed on all of their interstates to 45 miles per hour (40 in urban areas), and will activate these signs that flash the speed on the LED panel.

I'll use this thread to show some quirks that used to be common throughout Maine, but have since been abandoned.

MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

An idea either borrowed from or stolen from Wisconsin (https://wisconsindot.gov/rdwy/sdd/sd-15c35.pdf#sd15c35-a), at the very least

I've seen those "bypass lanes" in many other states, so I don't believe that the they're exclusive to either Minnesota or Wisconsin. Here are a few Maine examples...
Another state that sticks out in my mind that has a unique way of constructing these "bypass lanes" is Maryland. I see them quite frequently at rural, un-signalized intersections, and are usually quite narrower than the main travel lane. Here's an example on MD 290 at MD 291 in Millington: https://goo.gl/maps/fy65HZbiFHo
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: TheStranger on January 18, 2019, 02:01:05 AM
California:

- exit tabs as internal decals in BGSes, rather than external tabs.  Though the 1971 Los Angeles exit numbering experiment was all centered external tabs, the internal tabs have been in use for about 15-16 years as a way to maintain compliance with sign height maximums on gantries (which I'm not sure other states are anywhere as strict on)

- Though route decommissioning occurs everywhere in some form, the haphazard piecemeal relinquishments are endemic to surface street routings of state routes (i.e. Route 1 near Santa Monica).  California has yet to establish a new route of any form (even one with a recycled number) in almost two decades! This is not the only state where routings have some legislative basis, though it seems like in-the-field route signage is tied too closely to specific text in legislative route definitions, rather than being focused on navigational ease first.

- 24 hour carpool lanes in parts of LA

- "Freeway Entrance" signs and its variations (i.e. "Toll Crossing Entrance" for ramps to I-80 in the South of Market neighborhood) at onramps

- US and state shield cutouts!

- As California heavily invested in button copy decades ago due to durability, they were late to the retroflective trends other state DOTs got into in the early 90s, so the continued use of 40-50 year old BGSes throughout the freeway system is notable even as modern sheeting has finally become commonplace here. 

- Maybe less true than in the past, but due to the fact many California freeways were built before the Interstate system (or at the very beginnings of it), local control cities remain prevalent (i.e. "Hollywood" for US 101 in East Los Angeles, "Pomona" for Route 60).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kurumi on January 18, 2019, 02:16:45 AM
Califo[EXIT 4]rnia
highway signage
has itsownquirks
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: SSOWorld on January 18, 2019, 04:28:19 AM
WI:
  • Square route marker arrow (https://goo.gl/maps/8WBNpinu4iK2) shapes/boundaries, regardless of the arrow size/design
While Iowa only has as much sign as necessary to show the arrow and that's it.
The little arrow tabs on Minnesota's road - up at the start of an obstruction on the side of the road, down at the end
Speed Zones at exactly 1/5 of a mile  in MN.
MN Has just too many signs as it is.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: formulanone on January 18, 2019, 07:35:31 AM
Alabama seems to put more left-lane drops than I've seen elsewhere, forcing you to merge right much more often than left. Ramps, flyovers, side-streets, highways, interstates....doesn't matter, you're probably merging right. Natural exceptions for entrance ramp ends at an expressway/freeway-grade road.

The signs on bridges going over an interstate (https://flic.kr/p/24fsvFS): The road name and a miniature shield (good), mileage point (ok), and a blank interstate shield (https://flic.kr/p/22gfnjh) for no reason (huh?). I think there's a few on other limited-access highways, but there's only a handful of those.

After that, I can't think of anything else that's truly unusual, other than some counties with hundreds or even thousands of county route shields.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ben114 on January 18, 2019, 07:36:37 AM
MA: the state where everything is a state route. Shield error after shield error after shield error.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: plain on January 18, 2019, 08:13:53 AM
For instance, those weird jughandle left turns throughout New Jersey.

You can add at-grade loop ramps for left turns as well.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 18, 2019, 08:28:32 AM
If you think California is bad, you obviously haven't seen Catalonia. They use a totally different signage system to both Fomento (Spain's transport ministry) and the other communities, resulting in two separate systems being used at the same time: one on national highways, another on regional roads. They also sign their top tier regional highways in red, like national highways, as opposed to orange as used elsewhere, and if one gets referred to in a national highway it gets signed in orange (like elsewhere).

Another quirk seen all across Spain is that regional roads are tiered in order of importance: there are the orange highways, then the green roads and the yellow local roads. The last one should also be used by provinces, but again there is a plethora of colors to see depending on which province is one.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 18, 2019, 08:39:32 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.

I'd argue that other states don't have enough signs.  It's also worth noting that Minnesota was a pioneer in what became the MUTCD.

As for Vermont and quirks:

- Town and county line signage posted parallel to the road (excluding what's on the Interstates).
- Reference markers that are similar to but not the same as New York's.  Also, unlike New York (AFAIK), Vermont also uses reference markers on several Class 2 Town Highways, specifically those that were Federal-Aid-Secondary under the old Federal funding rules.
- 0.05 milemarkers on the Interstates (though I've noticed they're not getting replaced when lost/missing).
- State (and U.S.) routes as Class 1 Town Highways in village centers.
- "Through Way Begins" signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 18, 2019, 09:01:47 AM
While Iowa only has as much sign as necessary to show the arrow and that's it.

Worth noting that all new Iowa installations I've seen in the last couple years have used MUTCD standard arrows.

Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.
I'd argue that other states don't have enough signs.  It's also worth noting that Minnesota was a pioneer in what became the MUTCD.

I agree with froggie about this.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 18, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
The thing that comes to mind for me about VDOT (Virginia) is their near-religious obsession with restricting right turn on red to the far right lane only, and posting signs about it, but the signs’ wording and placement can be quite inconsistent even within a single intersection. I have not seen nearly so many “right on red from curb lane only” or “no turn on red this lane” in other states.

Also, while admittedly dual left-turn lanes where a left on red is permitted are rare, they do exist, yet VDOT does not, as far as I’ve ever seen, prohibit the left on red from lanes other than the curb lane (could be because most drivers don’t know left on red is legal at all).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Eth on January 18, 2019, 10:20:46 AM
Some Georgia quirks:

Auxiliary route markers with the banner inside the shield (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0142017,-84.5606371,3a,37.5y,310.97h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0K4SrLhvPSZo8_VJSc3-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

This particular design (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7714687,-84.3208823,3a,15y,166.88h,94.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOYjw1aBKFnJX6ioyjAo8Jg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) of guide signage that I haven't seen anywhere else

Series D and full-width exit tabs (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7435399,-84.3761035,3a,75y,265.55h,96.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syS6SRyq0u2tJaUwqBDOVEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on BGSes. These stopped being put up around 2008 when we switched over to more-or-less MUTCD-standard ones, but a lot of them haven't been replaced yet. The "all signs the same height" thing is still a thing, though I know some other states do that too.

And, of course, we can't forget the rule about all US routes being posted alongside state routes (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.8384047,-82.0067767,3a,75y,82.08h,93.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFmmyW5ctC6FxHfUud_umLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

(EDIT) Oh, almost forgot! Our county road markers, which are just these little green signs attached to the backs of stop signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@31.0214913,-83.9598915,3a,37.1y,95h,88.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIjZvKSxrAQb2vUdpiXUmdg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DIjZvKSxrAQb2vUdpiXUmdg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D142.88773%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656). These are pretty much gone in metro Atlanta now, but seem to still be plentiful in the southern part of the state.



The signs on bridges going over an interstate (https://flic.kr/p/24fsvFS): The road name and a miniature shield (good), mileage point (ok), and a blank interstate shield (https://flic.kr/p/22gfnjh) for no reason (huh?). I think there's a few on other limited-access highways, but there's only a handful of those.

Yeah, US 80 in Phenix City has them too, though of course it's a blank US shield (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4990671,-85.0178287,3a,15y,88.88h,97.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spifPrYiZCVr6kmXiQ1nKEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead of an Interstate shield. So weird.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 18, 2019, 11:29:22 AM
Rotaries.

"School SLOW Crossing" signs, and various other three word phrases.

Driving in the breakdown lane being legal in some cases.
I used to wonder why breakdown lane driving was not legal even after the highway expansion, but then I learned that it was very dangerous.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 18, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
In British Columbia ... Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.

Are those provincial installations, though?



Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.

I'm curious to know how common it is outside of Minnesota to see separate signage for snowmobiles.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: pdx-wanderer on January 18, 2019, 03:11:34 PM
Not my state but California's little white signs that give the name of each and every obscurely known creek (https://goo.gl/maps/HfPXnMcV21L2), wash (https://goo.gl/maps/JP9roDjqrKR2), gulch (https://goo.gl/maps/vkQrRfALrmP2), and ditch (https://goo.gl/maps/LJccxfZcjJ52) in the state.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 18, 2019, 03:56:17 PM
In British Columbia ... Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.

Are those provincial installations, though?

That's a city install, but I have seen mixed color signals on roads that were maintained by other authorities as well. I assume the MOTI is at least partly responsible for the standards that led to their usage. If it would make you happy, once I'm home from work, I'd be happy to find a provincial install. I'm sure there's more than a few out there, although they're still pretty rare. My point was simply that I've never seen mixed color signal bodies in the US or other parts of Canada at one intersection, that wasn't just a one-off thing.

California:

- 24 hour carpool lanes in parts of LA

- "Freeway Entrance" signs and its variations (i.e. "Toll Crossing Entrance" for ramps to I-80 in the South of Market neighborhood) at onramps

You can see these in other western states as well. WSDOT maintains four different freeways with 24-hour HOV lanes, and "freeway entrance" signs are used in at least WA and NV, though only the latter has similar standards for route markers on the same post.



WA-99, a surface arterial for most of its length, has a significant stretch of 24-hour HOV lanes along the curb. Are there other states with surface roads that have 24-hour HOV lanes?
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 18, 2019, 03:58:01 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.

I'm curious to know how common it is outside of Minnesota to see separate signage for snowmobiles.

Northern New England.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 18, 2019, 04:16:35 PM
If it would make you happy, once I'm home from work, I'd be happy to find a provincial install.

(1)  I'm not unhappy as it is.
(2)  You don't need to worry about making me happy.
(3)  It probably wouldn't make me any happier anyway.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 18, 2019, 04:42:38 PM
If it would make you happy, once I'm home from work, I'd be happy to find a provincial install.

(1)  I'm not unhappy as it is.
(2)  You don't need to worry about making me happy.
(3)  It probably wouldn't make me any happier anyway.

Hahaha no no, I'm not trying to be facetious or anything. I'm only saying that because you made a very good point. If I was going to bring up a weird quirk of my province, it's not a ridiculous expectation that I might link to a example of a provincial install.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 18, 2019, 10:26:22 PM
MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

Those aren't unique to Minnesota. I can recall a few in Nebraska; there are a couple in Illinois in Lake County (example on a county road (https://goo.gl/maps/5r9bDGzoeJ32), example on IL 59 (https://goo.gl/maps/8ikJjDpuMKz)); and I want to say a few other states use them.

Not my state, but for Nebraska it would be diagrammatic junction signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1 on January 18, 2019, 10:29:04 PM
Not my state, but for Nebraska it would be diagrammatic junction signs.

I see those all the time in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. They're used all over the country.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: oscar on January 18, 2019, 10:39:36 PM
Not my state, but for Nebraska it would be diagrammatic junction signs.

I see those all the time in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. They're used all over the country.

Not nearly often enough, and rare in my part of the country. Nebraska's routine use of diagrammatic junction signs is something I really like about that state's highways.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 18, 2019, 10:40:06 PM
^ They use them in Massachusetts and New Hampshire for non-freeway junctions?  Nebraska example (https://goo.gl/maps/8ELns8Aqcvz) since I wasn't clear enough in my post.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1 on January 18, 2019, 10:44:37 PM
^ They use them in Massachusetts and New Hampshire for non-freeway junctions?  Nebraska example (https://goo.gl/maps/8ELns8Aqcvz) since I wasn't clear enough in my post.

I was thinking of freeway junctions. Sorry.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ben114 on January 18, 2019, 10:45:01 PM
Nebraska example (https://goo.gl/maps/8ELns8Aqcvz) since I wasn't clear enough in my post.
These are all around New Hampshire.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 18, 2019, 10:59:59 PM
^ Having driven all of New Hampshire's state highway system, I agree they do exist, but I'd say they're uncommon.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 18, 2019, 11:35:44 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a stippled arrow diagrammatic on an ADOT-maintained road, however, I have read somewhere ADOT used to have one somewhere near the end of the US 60 Superstition Freeway in Apache Junction (possibly an experimental use).  There is one in Downtown Tempe near ASU on a City of Tempe road.

Interestingly as of last year ADOT has adopted APL signage despite not using diagrammatics.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: renegade on January 19, 2019, 01:16:54 AM
Lighted "left turn" signs at traffic signals in Michigan.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 19, 2019, 02:02:59 AM
Lighted "left turn" signs at traffic signals in Michigan.

The internally-lit case signs that Michigan uses are definitely not something I've seen anywhere else. I've seen backlit signs but not used in the same way nor nearly as often.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Scott5114 on January 19, 2019, 03:02:56 AM
Square route marker arrow (https://goo.gl/maps/8WBNpinu4iK2) shapes/boundaries, regardless of the arrow size/design[/li][/list]

Oklahoma shares this tendency. We also don't use the standard JCT plate, instead preferring one the same size as the directional banners.

Left turn lanes/slip ramps are absent more often than not in Oklahoma, for whatever reason. So are No Passing Zone pennants.

Double yellow lines are placed much closer together in Oklahoma than they are in other states.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: wanderer2575 on January 19, 2019, 03:56:29 AM
Lighted "left turn" signs at traffic signals in Michigan.

They're not lit in Oakland County, I assume as a cost-savings measure.  They're not even wired up.  For example:  https://goo.gl/maps/VBxN687xdAm
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: bcroadguy on January 19, 2019, 05:54:40 AM
In British Columbia ... Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.

Are those provincial installations, though?

That's a city install, but I have seen mixed color signals on roads that were maintained by other authorities as well. I assume the MOTI is at least partly responsible for the standards that led to their usage. If it would make you happy, once I'm home from work, I'd be happy to find a provincial install. I'm sure there's more than a few out there, although they're still pretty rare. My point was simply that I've never seen mixed color signal bodies in the US or other parts of Canada at one intersection, that wasn't just a one-off thing.

California:

- 24 hour carpool lanes in parts of LA

- "Freeway Entrance" signs and its variations (i.e. "Toll Crossing Entrance" for ramps to I-80 in the South of Market neighborhood) at onramps

You can see these in other western states as well. WSDOT maintains four different freeways with 24-hour HOV lanes, and "freeway entrance" signs are used in at least WA and NV, though only the latter has similar standards for route markers on the same post.



WA-99, a surface arterial for most of its length, has a significant stretch of 24-hour HOV lanes along the curb. Are there other states with surface roads that have 24-hour HOV lanes?

For some reason, lots of cities in BC switched from black to yellow signals (kinda the opposite of what seems to be happening in most of the US). So when one individual signal needs replacing but not the whole intersection, lots of cities will just replace that individual signal with a yellow one. I'm guessing that's what happened in jakeroot's link. You'll probably never find anything like that in a city that still installs black signals (Surrey for example).

Few cities do this, but the Ministry of Transportation often installs yellow overhead signals with black supplementary post-mounted signals on purpose (they almost never do yellow post mounted signals). If there's a median left turn signal, the color kinda seems to be whatever they felt like doing that day. Example: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4552568,-123.5193679,3a,49y,45.34h,87.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shXyh_F_EjZyo3A5sl2wtYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656. I don't think there's any provincial installs with completely random signals being different colors (e.g. a black overhead signal next to a yellow one).

Idk where else to post this, but its kinda related so I'm gonna do it here. Look at this nasty signal that's part yellow and part black: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2450966,-123.0651965,3a,24y,290.39h,92.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swRn7OrWDEgKuOdftaCN25g!2e0!5s20180701T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 19, 2019, 08:21:09 AM
Lighted "left turn" signs at traffic signals in Michigan.

The internally-lit case signs that Michigan uses are definitely not something I've seen anywhere else. I've seen backlit signs but not used in the same way nor nearly as often.

I've seen them in Virginia Beach.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Buck87 on January 19, 2019, 11:27:23 AM
Not sure if this is unique to Ohio or not, but how about our plain black on white mile markers on non freeways. They don't have any wording on them, so it's not obvious what they are, and the numbers reset for each county. 
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 19, 2019, 11:47:43 AM
MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

Those aren't unique to Minnesota. I can recall a few in Nebraska; there are a couple in Illinois in Lake County (example on a county road (https://goo.gl/maps/5r9bDGzoeJ32), example on IL 59 (https://goo.gl/maps/8ikJjDpuMKz)); and I want to say a few other states use them.

....

I like that. It'd be nice if more states would do that sort of thing, recognizing traffic counts don't always warrant it.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: cabiness42 on January 19, 2019, 11:52:59 AM
Indiana:

Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: RobbieL2415 on January 19, 2019, 05:26:37 PM
ConnDOT:
- State name on Interstate shields
- use of different thickness line markings on secondary SRs. I think VA DOT does it also.
- No border around exit tabs on old BGSs
- colored overhead sign mounts
-Cheap flimsy signposts
-Cheap flimsy guard rails (though they are being replaced)
-Use of wooden wire guard rails on some secondary SRs
-Significant use of left exits.
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts in environmentally sensitive areas, usually the South Coast and the Cape.
- Double-stacked guard rails for medians.
- Odd advisory speed limits ("Thickly Settled" etc.)
- Prolific use of rotaries
- flashing green lights
- Lack of dashed lane markings for on and off-ramps. This is especially bad when the drivers of the Commonwealth don't know how to merge.
-Yield signs used on on-ramps where there is clearly room to negotiate a merge.

RI DOT:
-Non cut-out shields
-Some non-standard signage uses a bold font

PA DOT:
-Those stupid "begin turn here" signs.
- Traffic enforcement zone signs
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Bitmapped on January 19, 2019, 05:39:30 PM
Not sure if this is unique to Ohio or not, but how about our plain black on white mile markers on non freeways. They don't have any wording on them, so it's not obvious what they are, and the numbers reset for each county.

West Virginia has the same, except WVDOH makes theirs out of individual numbers attached together rather than a single sign.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: sharkyfour on January 19, 2019, 06:07:50 PM
In Washington State, WSDOT has a few odd quirks: inset, center-aligned (http://bit.ly/2QYGZwq) exit tabs (except in SW); welded-box  (http://bit.ly/2FzWiKP)sign gantries (never seen this anywhere else); black-on-white (http://bit.ly/2CxRNwa) HOV signs (once common but now a party of one). There's also no sign salads on state routes. All route guidance is through guide signs.

In British Columbia, flashing green orbs (https://www.tranbc.ca/2014/10/03/flashing-green-lights-and-what-they-mean/) for pedestrian crossings; 8-inch arrows (http://bit.ly/2Dh07SB) are still the norm as well, at least near-side. Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.

Connecticut still uses black-on-white for HOV lane signage.

One quirky thing that always catches my attention when travelling in Pennsylvania is their excessive use of "Bridge Freezes Before Road" signs.  I can maybe see an occasional reminder, but having two before each an every bridge seems like a waste.  PA is the only place I've seen them as frequently as they have them there.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 19, 2019, 06:19:46 PM
Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.

Example (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4999339,-93.492085,3a,40.2y,106.41h,78.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBM5Yo5Ty47e2cPfUZeaCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Perhaps other states do use brace posts, but I know of no other DOT that uses them as commonly as MnDOT does.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: KeithE4Phx on January 19, 2019, 06:42:45 PM
Indiana:

Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).

The three sections of IN 48 were never connected to each other, AFAIK.  In fact, there is no direct road between any of the segments.  They occupy roughly the same latitude, but that's about all they have in common.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 19, 2019, 06:55:16 PM
California; wildly varying levels of apathy regarding route signage up keep. 
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Occidental Tourist on January 19, 2019, 07:47:50 PM
California; wildly varying levels of apathy regarding route signage up keep. 
Bingo.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ftballfan on January 19, 2019, 08:06:29 PM
MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

Those aren't unique to Minnesota. I can recall a few in Nebraska; there are a couple in Illinois in Lake County (example on a county road (https://goo.gl/maps/5r9bDGzoeJ32), example on IL 59 (https://goo.gl/maps/8ikJjDpuMKz)); and I want to say a few other states use them.

Not my state, but for Nebraska it would be diagrammatic junction signs.

Michigan also uses the bypass lanes
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: bulldog1979 on January 19, 2019, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.

I'm curious to know how common it is outside of Minnesota to see separate signage for snowmobiles.

Northern New England.

H-58 in Alger County, Michigan, among other county roads, has snowmobile speed limit signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Brandon on January 19, 2019, 09:10:28 PM
IDOT, where to begin?

Almost like having 9 DOTs for the price of 1 (not including CDOT and ISTHA, which have their own ways of doing things).  Each district seems to have its own way of doing things.  Some like rectangles for 3d state routes, some like squares.

Used a unique aluminum truss for signals in the 1960s and 1970s: https://goo.gl/maps/yGpxXsz5o6K2
A fair number of examples still exist, mostly around Metro Chicago.

Button copy and brown sign gantries (mostly in District 1, Schaumburg) in the 1980s and 1990s: https://goo.gl/maps/RhACFczXFKE2
Like CalTrans, all signs were sized to the height of the gantry.  Unlike CalTrans, the gantries could also be very tall.

A favorite thing for District 2, Dixon: https://goo.gl/maps/T5R5oaBhFK82
Using a speed plaque under the rectangular arrow.

Also,

ISTHA
1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 mileposts, commonly found on both sides of the carriageway: https://goo.gl/maps/dbz3eWgbkgT2

Triangular sign gantries (note, IDOT uses squarish ones): https://goo.gl/maps/LLjn39kBqpm

3:3 lane lines unlike the standard 1:3.  NJTP and the Indiana Toll Road also use them, but only ISTHA uses them with embedded reflectors: https://goo.gl/maps/u55TXeJFSXF2 in the Illinois standard pattern of stripe-reflector-reflector-stripe-empty-stripe-repeat.

CDOT
Flat out ignores the MUTCD at times: https://goo.gl/maps/67aemDVdei92 https://goo.gl/maps/n2QJEjuQ23B2 https://goo.gl/maps/b6AvkTXBq4C2

Unlike the rest of Illinois (IDOT, counties, other municipalities), never uses backplates ever: https://goo.gl/maps/pW81JFrzCtn

Likes to stripe for lanes and then have the lanes disappear or shift without warning: https://goo.gl/maps/XVW8k6ZuZAS2

Likes using symbol signage on parking signs: https://goo.gl/maps/EicHRJMvvcz

Safe passage signs: https://goo.gl/maps/AdF7i7hDLGy

No turn on red, 7 am to 7 pm, very well signed: https://goo.gl/maps/ahFpnpEUDAT2

MDOT-style backlit signage: https://goo.gl/maps/9LJshHEEA372

Unique No Outlet signage: https://goo.gl/maps/c98hj6jCxdr
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 19, 2019, 09:22:14 PM
Indiana:

Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).

Having separate routes with the same number isn't unique to Indiana.  This happens multiple times in Nebraska:

* N-2:  Gap from Lincoln to Grand Island
* N-27:  Gap between US 26 and N-2
* N-47:  Gap between US 34 and N-23
* N-66:  Gap in Louisville, another between US 77 and N-79
* N-103:  Gap between US 136 and N-4

Probably a few I missed.

I'd go with Indiana's quirks being the little blue signs at bridges with +XX (example[/url) and the use of overhead signs at almost all interstate interchanges on the side roads ([url=https://goo.gl/maps/n7ZZpQ9hBoH2]example (https://goo.gl/maps/2eCBWhjnNAz)).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 20, 2019, 03:08:36 AM
Some quirks from other states that I've taken note of...

Massachusetts

New Hampshire

Delaware

Maryland
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 20, 2019, 08:20:53 AM
MN:
“Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

Those aren't unique to Minnesota. I can recall a few in Nebraska; there are a couple in Illinois in Lake County (example on a county road (https://goo.gl/maps/5r9bDGzoeJ32), example on IL 59 (https://goo.gl/maps/8ikJjDpuMKz)); and I want to say a few other states use them.

....

I like that. It'd be nice if more states would do that sort of thing, recognizing traffic counts don't always warrant it.

It does require having a full shoulder at the intersection, which many states and roadways lack.

Indiana:

Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).

Guessing you haven't been to Arkansas...😌

Maryland
  • I don't believe these are still being used as of the last 2-3 years, but the widespread use of "mini doghouse" auxiliary signals (https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5028/5860709817_c0e3004b58_b.jpg) (I have no other term for them) at signalized intersections with protected/permissive left turns. These are usually mounted above the nearside of the intersection for approaching vehicles, but are occasionally seen by themselves alongside other 8-inch signals at small, town center intersections.


Not just the doghouse signals, but SHA standard practice is to have a nearside, leftside-mast mounted signal period even if it isn't a protected-permitted left turn.

---------------

One more from MnDOT that hasn't been mentioned yet:  their large exit gore signs with the "EXIT", exit number, and arrow arranged vertically.  A few other locations have mimicked the alignment, but none match the full 72" x 84" (or larger with exit number suffixes) size of MnDOT's.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: tdindy88 on January 20, 2019, 09:27:20 AM
Speaking of quirks, in Indiana "bypass lanes" are called "passing blisters," which is a term I've never seen anywhere else, nor in use by the general public.

Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: wanderer2575 on January 20, 2019, 10:15:52 AM
I've noted before that in Michigan, one doesn't pay tolls at the Mackinac Bridge and Canadian border crossing facilities, one pays fares.
(https://i.imgur.com/nHJ4Eya.jpg)

Michigan also posts passing warnings on rural trunklines where there is a passing lane in the opposing direction.
(https://i.imgur.com/tFjNlUh.jpg)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: US 89 on January 20, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
For Utah:

-About 20 different beehive shield variants posted in the field (This is not an exaggeration.)
-State names on all new interstate shields
-Almost no state route concurrencies, and the few that exist are unsigned
-Primary state routes that are random parking lots for state institutions
-Two state routes that serve only to block construction of a nuclear waste rail line
-Mileposts for ramps in major system interchanges (example (https://goo.gl/maps/fXwY3MfTQew)), with "wrong way" signs on the back (https://goo.gl/maps/w3WkYBf9o8w)
-Sign gantries are exclusively monotubes
-Curved mast arms for traffic signals
-Almost zero spanwire signals in the state
-Lots of nonstandard intersection/interchange designs (SPUIs, DDIs, CFIs, ThrU turns...)
-Underbuilt freeway or expressway junctions with no room to upgrade to system interchanges (80/40 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7311902,-111.4977834,17z), 201/154 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7259133,-111.9875342,16z), 15/7 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0277842,-113.6078175,16z), 84/89 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1376702,-111.9158311,17z)...)

-Historically: outlined or double-outlined shields for US Highways on BGSs

Michigan also posts passing warnings on rural trunklines where there is a passing lane in the opposing direction.
snipped image

I'm forgetting what the exact wording used is, but a sign to that effect is commonly used in Utah. I wish more places had that.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 20, 2019, 11:45:58 AM
Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage:


Delaware:

There are two things noted in this image (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7485999,-75.5573546,3a,75y,201.17h,85.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0xtRLDf-eT60ZdkOLic1qg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656): the custom I-95 specific upcoming exits sign, also there is tons of advance signage for exits within Wilmington (follow Exit 6 for an example)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: TEG24601 on January 20, 2019, 11:58:30 AM
black-on-white (http://bit.ly/2CxRNwa) HOV signs (once common but now a party of one).


What is the alternative?  Everywhere I've been with HOV lanes uses the same signs, WA, BC, OR.


Another Washington quirk, is the LGS for route signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 20, 2019, 12:33:49 PM
Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

To be sure, I've seen some rhyming signs in other states—Virginia had a Burma-Shave type set of signs on I-66 about roadwork at one point, and there was a similar set of signs on the Dulles Access Road warning that it was for airport traffic only. But I can't say as I've ever seen another state that uses rhyming signs as routinely as Maryland does.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 20, 2019, 12:47:23 PM
Should add to the list for Nebraska the unique exit gore signs (example (https://goo.gl/maps/d3uwVnQxfLN2)), and the mile markers with a separate square for each number (example - kind of hard to see though) (https://goo.gl/maps/EmvEV9ha4kT2).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 20, 2019, 01:01:50 PM
Should add to the list for Nebraska the unique exit gore signs (example (https://goo.gl/maps/d3uwVnQxfLN2))

Reminds me of this older style of exit gore signs that Iowa used to use, except with "EXIT" and the number reversed from the Nebraska example.

(https://i.imgur.com/MAs7CYK.jpg)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 20, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
^ This was also standard procedure in Alabama for many years (not sure if it still is).  MnDOT also took the cheap route and did the same when they numbered a few of the pre-existing interchanges along US 52 between the Metro and Rochester.  Just added the numeral plaque above the pre-existing exit sign.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 20, 2019, 01:53:38 PM
Michigan also posts passing warnings on rural trunklines where there is a passing lane in the opposing direction.
snipped image

I'm forgetting what the exact wording used is, but a sign to that effect is commonly used in Utah. I wish more places had that.

A bit more wordy, but Utah uses PASSING PROHIBITED WHEN OPPOSING TRAFFIC IN EITHER ONCOMING LANE (https://goo.gl/maps/vcSQzZE4nwQ2).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Hurricane Rex on January 20, 2019, 02:48:01 PM
Oregon:
Speed XX signs where XX is the limit with up to 30 inch lettera. This is sadly going away as ODOT conforms more to MUTCD.
The remaining speed 65T60 signs are at:
I-5 at mp 271
I-205 mp 0-6
I-84 mp 47-63, 72
State highways are not the same as state routes and many highways are unsigned and routes have no mileage.
Mileage is not S to N and W to east always.
No interstate business routes, they are taken by OR 99 and US 30.
An abundance of 2 lane expressways, but a lack of 4 lane roads.
Seems to waste money.


LG-TP260

Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on January 20, 2019, 03:01:49 PM
Michigan also posts passing warnings on rural trunklines where there is a passing lane in the opposing direction.
snipped image

I'm forgetting what the exact wording used is, but a sign to that effect is commonly used in Utah. I wish more places had that.

A bit more wordy, but Utah uses PASSING PROHIBITED WHEN OPPOSING TRAFFIC IN EITHER ONCOMING LANE (https://goo.gl/maps/vcSQzZE4nwQ2).

I don’t think MN allows the single lane to pass anytime in a passing zone, so I’m always curious when I see places that do.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 20, 2019, 03:23:23 PM
black-on-white (http://bit.ly/2CxRNwa) HOV signs (once common but now a party of one).

What is the alternative?  Everywhere I've been with HOV lanes uses the same signs, WA, BC, OR.

To be clear, I'm referring to white guide signs. I don't know of any white HOV guide signs in OR, but BC uses green HOV guide signs (http://bit.ly/2FDv8Te) (white is only for regulatory signs, eg "KEEP LEFT (http://bit.ly/2sxtpq6)"). The FHWA requires green guide signs for HOV/toll facilities now.

Maryland
  • I don't believe these are still being used as of the last 2-3 years, but the widespread use of "mini doghouse" auxiliary signals (https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5028/5860709817_c0e3004b58_b.jpg) (I have no other term for them) at signalized intersections with protected/permissive left turns. These are usually mounted above the nearside of the intersection for approaching vehicles, but are occasionally seen by themselves alongside other 8-inch signals at small, town center intersections.

Not just the doghouse signals, but SHA standard practice is to have a nearside, leftside-mast mounted signal period even if it isn't a protected-permitted left turn.

For the record, I find signal visibility in MD quite a bit better than VA for this very reason. I have seen intersections without the nearside signal, but they're very rare. It's not West Coast or NJ levels of redundancy but I appreciate it nonetheless.

MD also uses very wide spacing for their signals, really only comparable to CA, in my opinion. Not sure why or how this happened, but I appreciate them not crowding signals together.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 20, 2019, 03:40:55 PM
In British Columbia ... Intersections with multiple signal body colors (http://bit.ly/2szgh3K) aren't uncommon either.

Are those provincial installations, though?

That's a city install, but I have seen mixed color signals on roads that were maintained by other authorities as well. I assume the MOTI is at least partly responsible for the standards that led to their usage. If it would make you happy, once I'm home from work, I'd be happy to find a provincial install. I'm sure there's more than a few out there, although they're still pretty rare. My point was simply that I've never seen mixed color signal bodies in the US or other parts of Canada at one intersection, that wasn't just a one-off thing.

For some reason, lots of cities in BC switched from black to yellow signals (kinda the opposite of what seems to be happening in most of the US). So when one individual signal needs replacing but not the whole intersection, lots of cities will just replace that individual signal with a yellow one. I'm guessing that's what happened in jakeroot's link. You'll probably never find anything like that in a city that still installs black signals (Surrey for example).

Few cities do this, but the Ministry of Transportation often installs yellow overhead signals with black supplementary post-mounted signals on purpose (they almost never do yellow post mounted signals). If there's a median left turn signal, the color kinda seems to be whatever they felt like doing that day. Example: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4552568,-123.5193679,3a,49y,45.34h,87.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shXyh_F_EjZyo3A5sl2wtYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656. I don't think there's any provincial installs with completely random signals being different colors (e.g. a black overhead signal next to a yellow one).

Idk where else to post this, but its kinda related so I'm gonna do it here. Look at this nasty signal that's part yellow and part black: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2450966,-123.0651965,3a,24y,290.39h,92.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swRn7OrWDEgKuOdftaCN25g!2e0!5s20180701T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Yikes, that last link really goes to show how much some of the BC agencies don't care about body color!

The first link was probably the install I was trying to think of. I knew I had just seen a brand-new example recently, but I couldn't remember where. The new accompanying signal to the south also has the same color scheme.

Weirdly, several new signals that I know of in the Lower Mainland (on provincial routes) use all black signals, even overhead (16 Ave, Nordel Way @ Hwy 91), but plenty of the newer signals on Vancouver Island and in the Okanagan use the yellow overhead/black post color scheme. I don't know how, or why there is so much difference between regions but it's certainly unusual.

The McKenzie Ave/Hwy 1 temp signals (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/30100303348/in/photostream/) (in use during the interchange rebuild) use all yellow signals (even those post-mounted), which is definitely unusual for the MOT. There's a bunch of all-yellow installs along some Lower Mainland provincial routes like Lougheed Hwy, but I think these are all maintained by local authorities (I know Coquitlam quite likes all-yellow signals).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Eth on January 20, 2019, 03:45:23 PM
Should add to the list for Nebraska the unique exit gore signs (example (https://goo.gl/maps/d3uwVnQxfLN2))

Reminds me of this older style of exit gore signs that Iowa used to use, except with "EXIT" and the number reversed from the Nebraska example.

(https://i.imgur.com/MAs7CYK.jpg)

Georgia used to do this back in the '90s, though it was a single sign with the number up top separated from the rest of the sign by a horizontal line. They did this only for 3-digit exit numbers (still sequential at the time, so only on I-75 from midtown Atlanta northward); numbers under 100 just used the regular ones.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 20, 2019, 06:16:07 PM
MD also uses very wide spacing for their signals, really only comparable to CA, in my opinion. Not sure why or how this happened, but I appreciate them not crowding signals together.

I've noticed that as well. My one gripe with this practice is that it often creates awkward spacing between the protected left turn and through signals. The left turn head(s) will be much closer to that of the through signals, making them spaced unevenly across the mast-arm/span-wire.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5038/5860716631_1cdc45854d_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 20, 2019, 06:58:55 PM
MD also uses very wide spacing for their signals, really only comparable to CA, in my opinion. Not sure why or how this happened, but I appreciate them not crowding signals together.

I've noticed that as well. My one gripe with this practice is that it often creates awkward spacing between the protected left turn and through signals. The left turn head(s) will be much closer to that of the through signals, making them spaced unevenly across the mast-arm/span-wire.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5038/5860716631_1cdc45854d_z.jpg

Very true. It looks best when a doghouse signal is used, or when the left turn signal is mounted on a pole or mast.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 20, 2019, 08:39:25 PM
MD also uses very wide spacing for their signals, really only comparable to CA, in my opinion. Not sure why or how this happened, but I appreciate them not crowding signals together.

I've noticed that as well. My one gripe with this practice is that it often creates awkward spacing between the protected left turn and through signals. The left turn head(s) will be much closer to that of the through signals, making them spaced unevenly across the mast-arm/span-wire.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5038/5860716631_1cdc45854d_z.jpg)

They could avoid that problem entirely by using side- and median-mounted left signals.  Or not having the mast-arm pole anchored in the median...
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 20, 2019, 08:51:09 PM
They could avoid that problem entirely by using side- and median-mounted left signals.  Or not having the mast-arm pole anchored in the median...

Even with the mast arm mounted on the right, the spacing would be the same. The left turn signal, as it is, is centered over the left turn lane. It's the through signals that are spread left and right from the centerline.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 20, 2019, 08:56:16 PM
They could avoid that problem entirely by using side- and median-mounted left signals.  Or not having the mast-arm pole anchored in the median...

Even with the mast arm mounted on the right, the spacing would be the same. The left turn signal, as it is, is centered over the left turn lane. It's the through signals that are spread left and right from the centerline.

This. They really could avoid the problem entirely by simply spacing their signals evenly.  ;-)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: sparker on January 21, 2019, 12:18:58 AM
Not my state but California's little white signs that give the name of each and every obscurely known creek (https://goo.gl/maps/HfPXnMcV21L2), wash (https://goo.gl/maps/JP9roDjqrKR2), gulch (https://goo.gl/maps/vkQrRfALrmP2), and ditch (https://goo.gl/maps/LJccxfZcjJ52) in the state.

That's simply Caltrans' bridge inventory signs; the bridge number corresponds with the county in which it's located and the approximate order that it was built within that county.  58 counties; the numbering starts in the northwest (Del Norte) and ends in the southeast (Imperial).  So bridge 53-1211 would be the 1211th state-maintained bridge completed in Los Angeles County, which is, of course, county #53. 
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DandyDan on January 21, 2019, 02:44:52 AM
Should add to the list for Nebraska the unique exit gore signs (example (https://goo.gl/maps/d3uwVnQxfLN2)), and the mile markers with a separate square for each number (example - kind of hard to see though) (https://goo.gl/maps/EmvEV9ha4kT2).
In my last trip to Nebraska around Christmas, they've begun to eliminate that style of mile marker, at least along 80.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MantyMadTown on January 21, 2019, 04:26:09 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld
MN Has just too many signs as it is.

I'm curious to know how common it is outside of Minnesota to see separate signage for snowmobiles.

Northern New England.

Or Wisconsin. I've seen plenty of them by country roads near my hometown.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: cabiness42 on January 21, 2019, 02:57:34 PM
Speaking of quirks, in Indiana "bypass lanes" are called "passing blisters," which is a term I've never seen anywhere else, nor in use by the general public.



I've never heard the term "passing blisters" before.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: roadfro on January 21, 2019, 03:07:04 PM
They could avoid that problem entirely by using side- and median-mounted left signals.  Or not having the mast-arm pole anchored in the median...

Even with the mast arm mounted on the right, the spacing would be the same. The left turn signal, as it is, is centered over the left turn lane. It's the through signals that are spread left and right from the centerline.

This. They really could avoid the problem entirely by simply spacing their signals evenly.  ;-)

And this might be more easily achieved if there weren't so many extra signs on the mast arm.

For example: The route signs could have been posted in advance of the intersection, allowing that left-most through signal to be placed centered over the left lane instead of close to the left edge of the left lane.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 21, 2019, 03:13:33 PM
This. They really could avoid the problem entirely by simply spacing their signals evenly.  ;-)
And this might be more easily achieved if there weren't so many extra signs on the mast arm.

For example: The route signs could have been posted in advance of the intersection, allowing that left-most through signal to be placed centered over the left lane instead of close to the left edge of the left lane.

It's not that hard to put route markers on mast arms and still have proper signal head spacing. MnDOT manages that really well. Here's an example from Albert Lea that I think illustrates it well. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6468457,-93.3911246,3a,90y,344.61h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si5so6oKyTgWSNJ9Ootkecw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

On the other hand, that "lane ends" sign looks totally superfluous. I see zero reason that needs to be mounted on the mast arm. Ditch that, move the other stuff to the right, and it would look just fine (IMO).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 21, 2019, 03:29:26 PM
This. They really could avoid the problem entirely by simply spacing their signals evenly.  ;-)
And this might be more easily achieved if there weren't so many extra signs on the mast arm.

For example: The route signs could have been posted in advance of the intersection, allowing that left-most through signal to be placed centered over the left lane instead of close to the left edge of the left lane.
It's not that hard to put route markers on mast arms and still have proper signal head spacing. MnDOT manages that really well. Here's an example from Albert Lea that I think illustrates it well. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6468457,-93.3911246,3a,90y,344.61h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si5so6oKyTgWSNJ9Ootkecw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

On the other hand, that "lane ends" sign looks totally superfluous. I see zero reason that needs to be mounted on the mast arm. Ditch that, move the other stuff to the right, and it would look just fine (IMO).

To be fair to Maryland, they don't space the signals out for the sole purpose of installing lane-centered signage. The vast majority of signals have virtually no signage at all, and still have wide spacing: http://bit.ly/2W73SkW

That "land ends" sign is only mounted where it is, so that they could omit other items like "RIGHT LANE" or an arrow. Kind of like how VA sometimes posts "NO TURN ON RED FROM THIS LANE ▼" (though an arrow is often used).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: hbelkins on January 21, 2019, 03:49:58 PM
How many states besides Minnesota use angled posts as braces for signs?
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 21, 2019, 03:57:39 PM
To be fair to Maryland, they don't space the signals out for the sole purpose of installing lane-centered signage. The vast majority of signals have virtually no signage at all, and still have wide spacing: http://bit.ly/2W73SkW

That "land ends" sign is only mounted where it is, so that they could omit other items like "RIGHT LANE" or an arrow. Kind of like how VA sometimes posts "NO TURN ON RED FROM THIS LANE ▼" (though an arrow is often used).

If the problem isn't due to the signs, then the problem is that their signal head placement is wonky.

My point was more that the lane sign doesn't need to be mounted on the mast arm at all. It's not really relevant to traffic control at the intersection, so why have it there? In that specific pictured example, instead install it as a ground mounted sign (or pair of signs, one on each side of the carriageway) a little ways up from the intersection.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 21, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts

Very common in states farther west.



Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.

Example (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4999339,-93.492085,3a,40.2y,106.41h,78.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBM5Yo5Ty47e2cPfUZeaCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Perhaps other states do use brace posts, but I know of no other DOT that uses them as commonly as MnDOT does.

Ooh!  I didn't think to mention those, but you're right.  I do believe they're also used some in northern British Columbia, but I don't know with what frequency.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 21, 2019, 04:37:57 PM
To be fair to Maryland, they don't space the signals out for the sole purpose of installing lane-centered signage. The vast majority of signals have virtually no signage at all, and still have wide spacing: http://bit.ly/2W73SkW

That "land ends" sign is only mounted where it is, so that they could omit other items like "RIGHT LANE" or an arrow. Kind of like how VA sometimes posts "NO TURN ON RED FROM THIS LANE ▼" (though an arrow is often used).
If the problem isn't due to the signs, then the problem is that their signal head placement is wonky.

As far as I know, the placement style has been the standard for decades. I don't think it's necessarily wonky; the original idea was probably to improve overall signal visibility, by spacing them out a bit and requiring that near-side signal. It comes off as odd when a protected left is used, though there are plenty of installs where the spacing was made to be quite good: http://bit.ly/2R59kB9...

(https://i.imgur.com/CGTaEJQ.png)

Of course, they could have easily improved signal visibility by requiring pole-mounted signals, but I appreciate them being creative with overhead signals. Especially since, as numerous states have proven, you don't need one-signal-per-lane to have good visibility (CA, WI, NJ, etc).

My point was more that the lane sign doesn't need to be mounted on the mast arm at all. It's not really relevant to traffic control at the intersection, so why have it there? In that specific pictured example, instead install it as a ground mounted sign (or pair of signs, one on each side of the carriageway) a little ways up from the intersection.

I agree, placing it on the side is perfectly adequate. I don't know exactly why it was placed on the mast arm, since it is indeed unhelpful this far in advance.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: roadfro on January 21, 2019, 04:53:00 PM
Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.

Example (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4999339,-93.492085,3a,40.2y,106.41h,78.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBM5Yo5Ty47e2cPfUZeaCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Perhaps other states do use brace posts, but I know of no other DOT that uses them as commonly as MnDOT does.

Ooh!  I didn't think to mention those, but you're right.  I do believe they're also used some in northern British Columbia, but I don't know with what frequency.

Brace posts are very common in Nevada. Used on practically all freeway-grade guide signs not mounted overhead, as well as most mid- & large-size signs of all varieties (guide, service, regulatory, etc.).  Difference here is that NDOT uses two angled posts connecting at the top of the vertical posts to the vertical posts at mid-height behind the sign and both anchored at one spot in the ground.


Edited to clarify bracing and add examples (did this on my phone, sorry if the links aren't formatted properly):

https://goo.gl/maps/aY9rccRmdb32 (back:
https://goo.gl/maps/JusUot3P1W62)
https://goo.gl/maps/nLRThR9fRr32
https://goo.gl/maps/1v2m6cAeogn


Edited again to fix spelling error.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on January 21, 2019, 04:57:47 PM
Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.

Example (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4999339,-93.492085,3a,40.2y,106.41h,78.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBM5Yo5Ty47e2cPfUZeaCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Perhaps other states do use brace posts, but I know of no other DOT that uses them as commonly as MnDOT does.
Ooh!  I didn't think to mention those, but you're right.  I do believe they're also used some in northern British Columbia, but I don't know with what frequency.
Brace posts are very common in Nevada. Used on practically all freeway-grade guide signs not mounted overhead, as well as most mid- & large-size signs of all varieties (guide, service, regulatory, etc.).  Difference here is that NDOT uses two angled posts connecting at the top of the vertical posts anchored at one spot in the ground.

An example (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3125835,-114.9470381,3a,55y,332.29h,83.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqyOD0112I0xaEM4yBOi7SQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), in case anyone else was curious. That is definitely unique in its own right!
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: swhuck on January 21, 2019, 05:22:57 PM
Texas:

Texas U's
LOTS of frontage roads
Loop routes everywhere
Spur routes everywhere
70mph speed limits on many freeways inside the Dallas metroplex (and 75mph on some of the HOT lanes)
Signals on roads posted as high as 75mph

The locals generally don't know how to react when an exit is anything other than a short ramp onto a frontage road or a stack interchange. Cloverleafs are rare, and I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Thing 342 on January 21, 2019, 06:13:55 PM
One thing I haven't seen for VDOT: giving contraflow lanes reverse-facing mile markers. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/Ei3E1nF8dZ32
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 21, 2019, 07:22:13 PM
Also, different districts in Virginia seem to use different models of DMS with different specs. The Richmond District has specified full matrix for years, while Hampton Roads only more recently began to specify full matrix for new installations.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 21, 2019, 09:29:20 PM
FDOT uses six bolts or more on shields/small signs for obvious wind concerns.  Arizona and New Mexico on the other hand combat the problem with frequent use of thicker gauge shields.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 21, 2019, 09:35:15 PM
Texas:
I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

They're rare, but they're out there.

Some that came to mind...

Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 21, 2019, 09:46:27 PM
Texas:
I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

They're rare, but they're out there.

Some that came to mind...

Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84

One that I recall is a rather impressive B4-style parclo along US-75 @ Northwest Hwy (Loop 12) in Dallas, complete with through ramps for the frontage road: http://bit.ly/2sH1eFf

I normally don't like Texas-style freeways, but they did a great job with this interchange and the nearby ones, complete with excellent signal placement too. Perhaps the least Texas-y interchange in the state!
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DaBigE on January 21, 2019, 10:01:42 PM
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts

Very common in states farther west.

Yup, wooden is what WisDOT prefers. A significant number of sign substraights are wood as well.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 21, 2019, 10:11:20 PM
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts

Very common in states farther west.

Yup, wooden is what WisDOT prefers. A significant number of sign substraights are wood as well.

Very common in the deserts in California.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: pdx-wanderer on January 21, 2019, 10:21:58 PM
Oregon:
Speed XX signs where XX is the limit with up to 30 inch lettera. This is sadly going away as ODOT conforms more to MUTCD.
The remaining speed 65T60 signs are at:
I-5 at mp 271
I-205 mp 0-6
I-84 mp 47-63, 72
State highways are not the same as state routes and many highways are unsigned and routes have no mileage.
Mileage is not S to N and W to east always.
No interstate business routes, they are taken by OR 99 and US 30.
An abundance of 2 lane expressways, but a lack of 4 lane roads.
Seems to waste money.


LG-TP260

There is a Speed 65 sign on I-5 south of Ashland as well.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Flint1979 on January 22, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
Lighted "left turn" signs at traffic signals in Michigan.

They're not lit in Oakland County, I assume as a cost-savings measure.  They're not even wired up.  For example:  https://goo.gl/maps/VBxN687xdAm
I've seen them lit before. Don't remember if I ever saw any lit in Oakland County or not though. I have however also seen them not lit before too.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DJ Particle on January 22, 2019, 03:43:23 AM
MASSACHUSETTS:

Until recently, BGS's had exit tabs that were framed as part of the larger sign.  There was no frame break between the exit tab and the rest of the sign.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 22, 2019, 08:07:19 AM
MASSACHUSETTS:

Until recently, BGS's had exit tabs that were framed as part of the larger sign.  There was no frame break between the exit tab and the rest of the sign.
Until recently, Connecticut's BGS's had exit tabs which didn't have a border at all. https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/ct_9/n1.jpg
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: roadfro on January 22, 2019, 10:44:40 AM
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts

Very common in states farther west.

Yup, wooden is what WisDOT prefers. A significant number of sign substraights are wood as well.

Very common in the deserts in California.

Very common all over California. If I'm not mistaken, most post-mounted signs of all varieties (up to and including freeway BGS) on Caltrans facilities are wood posts.

Caltrans and Nevada DOT do a lot of things very similarly, but this is one of their few contrasts. Virtually no permanent road sign in Nevada uses wood posts, and even temporary road construction signs using wood posts are rare.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Brandon on January 22, 2019, 11:16:41 AM
MASSACHUSETTS:

Until recently, BGS's had exit tabs that were framed as part of the larger sign.  There was no frame break between the exit tab and the rest of the sign.
Until recently, Connecticut's BGS's had exit tabs which didn't have a border at all. https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/ct_9/n1.jpg

Then you go in a different direction entirely and use a full-width tab like Washington, Illinois, Utah (former), and Michigan (hit-or-miss) do.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: hbelkins on January 22, 2019, 11:16:48 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned West Virginia's "fractional" routes. If they did, I missed it.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: machias on January 22, 2019, 01:52:21 PM
MASSACHUSETTS:

Until recently, BGS's had exit tabs that were framed as part of the larger sign.  There was no frame break between the exit tab and the rest of the sign.

This was also how Pennsylvania did it back before the right- or left-justified exit tab days.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 23, 2019, 03:00:45 PM
MASSDOT:
- use of wooden signposts

Very common in states farther west.

Yup, wooden is what WisDOT prefers. A significant number of sign substraights are wood as well.

Very common in the deserts in California.

Very common all over California. If I'm not mistaken, most post-mounted signs of all varieties (up to and including freeway BGS) on Caltrans facilities are wood posts.

Caltrans and Nevada DOT do a lot of things very similarly, but this is one of their few contrasts. Virtually no permanent road sign in Nevada uses wood posts, and even temporary road construction signs using wood posts are rare.


Another difference is that Nevada allows logo signs in urban areas while California does not.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: bzakharin on January 24, 2019, 11:47:12 AM
Traffic circles are another NJ specific thing, though they're slowly going away. A recent change is over-sized two-sided mile markers with a direction and route shield, every 0.2 miles on freeways and 0.5 miles on non-freeway state and US routes. These may exist elsewhere, but I have only seen them in NJ so far.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Brandon on January 24, 2019, 11:50:18 AM
Traffic circles are another NJ specific thing, though they're slowly going away. A recent change is over-sized two-sided mile markers with a direction and route shield, every 0.2 miles on freeways and 0.5 miles on non-freeway state and US routes. These may exist elsewhere, but I have only seen them in NJ so far.

Traffic circles (not modern roundabouts) exist in other places than New Jersey.  Massachusetts comes to mind.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2019, 12:22:01 PM
Traffic circles are another NJ specific thing, though they're slowly going away. A recent change is over-sized two-sided mile markers with a direction and route shield, every 0.2 miles on freeways and 0.5 miles on non-freeway state and US routes. These may exist elsewhere, but I have only seen them in NJ so far.

The 'enhanced' mm is used extensively elsewhere, although NJ's standard for signing them is probably a little bit unique.  Personally I would've rather had them every 0.1 miles on highways.  If one is knocked down or otherwise missing, then there's going to be 0.4 miles between the markers, making them much less visible.

The ones on non-freeways (every half-mile) aren't as useful to much of the general public.  If someone needed assistance, most likely they would be using some nearby landmark or cross street to describe their location. 
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 24, 2019, 06:05:39 PM
The ones on non-freeways (every half-mile) aren't as useful to much of the general public.  If someone needed assistance, most likely they would be using some nearby landmark or cross street to describe their location.
The problem with that, though, is if you are on a more desolate non-expressway, what are you supposed to use?  There have been plenty of crash reports that I've read where the nearest cross street was at least 1/2 mile away and the only things around you are massive farms.

Also, this reminded me of another weird Delaware thing (but it may be more common in rural states).  One of my coworkers told me that it was only about 20 years ago that most rural roads actually got names (they apparently sent out surveys to people living on the roads to determine what they should be called).  Prior to that, they were just "Road 268A" (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7414859,-75.1481926,3a,18.3y,7.39h,82.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRTX-hnuMP1coG-uJYS7x_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) or something like that.
Title: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 6a on January 24, 2019, 06:14:20 PM
While I’m not sure if it’s actually the state DOT posting the signs, it does seem to be a statewide phenomenon. I can’t recall anywhere being as obsessive about marking every single instance of crossing a corporate boundary as Ohio. Even if it’s just the width of a railroad right-of-way (pictured). There are places where single properties have been annexed, so going down a road, you’ll see LEAVE CORP / ENTER CORP / LEAVE CORP / ENTER CORP in the space of a couple front yards.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190124/8f528d542e95121a1da6781578a8ac69.jpg)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: fillup420 on January 24, 2019, 08:39:50 PM
South Carolina DOT still uses black-outlined US route shields on BGS's
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: formulanone on January 24, 2019, 08:54:35 PM
While I’m not sure if it’s actually the state DOT posting the signs, it does seem to be a statewide phenomenon. I can’t recall anywhere being as obsessive about marking every single instance of crossing a corporate boundary as Ohio. Even if it’s just the width of a railroad right-of-way (pictured). There are places where single properties have been annexed, so going down a road, you’ll see LEAVE CORP / ENTER CORP / LEAVE CORP / ENTER CORP in the space of a couple front yards.

It's like two kids fighting over which side of the room is their own:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7432/27182266763_c0da401c17_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hq1dTM)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Buck87 on January 24, 2019, 09:17:17 PM
^ there's similar instances of this on OH 315 where it goes back and forth between Columbus and Sharon Township 4-6 times in a short span, and also one where a tiny strip of Grandview Heights gets a sign immediately followed by one for Columbus not too far from downtown. 
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Brandon on January 25, 2019, 09:18:08 AM
The ones on non-freeways (every half-mile) aren't as useful to much of the general public.  If someone needed assistance, most likely they would be using some nearby landmark or cross street to describe their location.
The problem with that, though, is if you are on a more desolate non-expressway, what are you supposed to use?  There have been plenty of crash reports that I've read where the nearest cross street was at least 1/2 mile away and the only things around you are massive farms.

Also, this reminded me of another weird Delaware thing (but it may be more common in rural states).  One of my coworkers told me that it was only about 20 years ago that most rural roads actually got names (they apparently sent out surveys to people living on the roads to determine what they should be called).  Prior to that, they were just "Road 268A" (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7414859,-75.1481926,3a,18.3y,7.39h,82.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRTX-hnuMP1coG-uJYS7x_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) or something like that.

Interesting.  A lot of our rural roads just have numbers such as 3000E or 400S, or just use the route number, i.e. 173 Illinois Route 2.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: hbelkins on January 25, 2019, 10:47:05 AM
I suspect Ohio's corporation limit signs are placed for police jurisdictional purposes.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 6a on January 26, 2019, 04:43:02 PM
I suspect Ohio's corporation limit signs are placed for police jurisdictional purposes.

Indeed, it’s not uncommon to find police parked in one of these tiny islands, running radar.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: J N Winkler on January 26, 2019, 09:29:41 PM
Alabama has "Police Jurisdiction" signs--I am not sure it is unique in this regard, but any other states that use these signs are assuredly in the South.  When I first encountered them during a roadtrip, they made me nervous.  When I returned home, I did a little research and discovered city police forces in Alabama have extraterritorial jurisdiction that extends a short distance beyond the corporate limits of their respective municipalities, and the signs delineate where this ends.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: fillup420 on January 27, 2019, 05:18:45 PM
Why the hell does Georgia have so many redundant state routes? (US 1/SR 4, US 27/SR 1 come to mind)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: skluth on January 27, 2019, 06:55:42 PM
California; wildly varying levels of apathy regarding route signage up keep. 
Bingo.

OMG, Yes. Following state routes is a challenge in urban areas. The only place you can often find them is on the freeways. Waze helps. It also took me a couple weeks to figure out that "Cyn" was the abbreviation for canyon. It's all over SoCal. You don't see many of those east of the Rockies.

For the other states I've lived in.

Wisconsin
1) The county trunk highway system using letters.
2) The near obsession during the last 20 years of installing roundabouts at practically every available opportunity. I love roundabouts, but often a simple intersection with stop sign will suffice.

Missouri
1) Also has lettered routes, but they're not county trunk highways.
2) The continued use of paint that disappears every time it rains.

Virginia
That no bridges can be built completely across the water downriver from US Navy installations in the Hampton Roads area. This explains all the tunnels.

I've never lived in Texas, but the "Drive Friendly" signs always struck me as quirky.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MantyMadTown on January 27, 2019, 08:24:47 PM
Wisconsin
1) The county trunk highway system using letters.
2) The near obsession during the last 20 years of installing roundabouts at practically every available opportunity. I love roundabouts, but often a simple intersection with stop sign will suffice.

I can totally agree with this! I really like the lettered county trunk highway system here because it makes us very unique. Honestly I feel like assigning numbers to these routes would make them feel less significant as county routes.

Also, I'm really sick of WISDOT applying roundabouts to every new interchange. All the reconstructed interchanges I've seen in the Green Bay area seem to have roundabouts on each ramp, and sometimes even an extra set of roundabouts for the frontage roads on either side of it! Manitowoc is also planning to build a roundabout at the intersection of highway 42 and Maritime Dr, but that one actually feels necessary.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: SD Mapman on January 27, 2019, 08:59:29 PM
In South Dakota, if route doesn't hit the WY (for an even-numbered route) or ND (for an odd-numbered route) state lines, the mileage to those lines is added to the mileposts.

This is how you can have a 64-mile long highway have a 300 milepost: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (from the west end of SD 38 in Mitchell)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DaBigE on January 28, 2019, 12:40:27 AM
Wisconsin
...
2) The near obsession during the last 20 years of installing roundabouts at practically every available opportunity. I love roundabouts, but often a simple intersection with stop sign will suffice.
...Also, I'm really sick of WISDOT applying roundabouts to every new interchange. All the reconstructed interchanges I've seen in the Green Bay area seem to have roundabouts on each ramp, and sometimes even an extra set of roundabouts for the frontage roads on either side of it! Manitowoc is also planning to build a roundabout at the intersection of highway 42 and Maritime Dr, but that one actually feels necessary.

Not trying to go on a tangent that has been beaten to death elsewhere on these forums but...

As much as some may think, the system isn't skewed automatically to roundabouts, but they usually win out when looking at those three items.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: MantyMadTown on January 28, 2019, 03:29:09 AM
Wisconsin
...
2) The near obsession during the last 20 years of installing roundabouts at practically every available opportunity. I love roundabouts, but often a simple intersection with stop sign will suffice.
...Also, I'm really sick of WISDOT applying roundabouts to every new interchange. All the reconstructed interchanges I've seen in the Green Bay area seem to have roundabouts on each ramp, and sometimes even an extra set of roundabouts for the frontage roads on either side of it! Manitowoc is also planning to build a roundabout at the intersection of highway 42 and Maritime Dr, but that one actually feels necessary.

Not trying to go on a tangent that has been beaten to death elsewhere on these forums but...
  • Projected traffic growth
  • Long-term maintenance
  • Arguably better safety records

As much as some may think, the system isn't skewed automatically to roundabouts, but they usually win out when looking at those three items.

I'm not trying to knock roundabouts in general. I generally like them for their safety record (and I'm not as annoyed by them as most drivers!) and their efficiency in carrying traffic. There's just been way too many roundabouts built in recent years. You don't need roundabouts on top of roundabouts for every intersection on every highway. That just gets annoying for drivers.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 28, 2019, 09:16:43 AM
Wisconsin
...
2) The near obsession during the last 20 years of installing roundabouts at practically every available opportunity. I love roundabouts, but often a simple intersection with stop sign will suffice.
...Also, I'm really sick of WISDOT applying roundabouts to every new interchange. All the reconstructed interchanges I've seen in the Green Bay area seem to have roundabouts on each ramp, and sometimes even an extra set of roundabouts for the frontage roads on either side of it! Manitowoc is also planning to build a roundabout at the intersection of highway 42 and Maritime Dr, but that one actually feels necessary.

Not trying to go on a tangent that has been beaten to death elsewhere on these forums but...
  • Projected traffic growth
  • Long-term maintenance
  • Arguably better safety records

As much as some may think, the system isn't skewed automatically to roundabouts, but they usually win out when looking at those three items.

I'm not trying to knock roundabouts in general. I generally like them for their safety record (and I'm not as annoyed by them as most drivers!) and their efficiency in carrying traffic. There's just been way too many roundabouts built in recent years. You don't need roundabouts on top of roundabouts for every intersection on every highway. That just gets annoying for drivers.
I'm just going to leave this one here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon))  :spin:
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: formulanone on January 28, 2019, 09:44:05 AM
Why the hell does Georgia have so many redundant state routes? (US 1/SR 4, US 27/SR 1 come to mind)

Many predate the US Routes, and are kept for historical purposes. Some do not run the length of the same US Route (GA 2, GA 11, GA 26 for example) but others such as the GA 1 and 4 you mentioned, are essentially unnecessary.

Still, your point is valid, as they were laid out 100 years ago and I have my doubts anyone other than a handful of folks here would follow one "hidden" number end-to-end.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: index on January 28, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 28, 2019, 02:37:50 PM
I'm not trying to knock roundabouts in general. I generally like them for their safety record (and I'm not as annoyed by them as most drivers!) and their efficiency in carrying traffic. There's just been way too many roundabouts built in recent years. You don't need roundabouts on top of roundabouts for every intersection on every highway. That just gets annoying for drivers.

In urban areas where there's two or more in a row, I can understand them being annoying if you get motion sick (otherwise I don't get what the big deal is). But, since roundabouts are designed to allow a sort of continuous flow, they do not mix with signals. Signals are designed for "stop or go" flow. Which works really well in a timed corridor, but not so much when next to a signal, which will inevitably create a backup that will gridlock the roundabout.

Roundabouts do work well with RIRO and RCUT intersections (to help with U-turn movements), but those aren't always good ideas when the road that gets limited has lots of through movements.

tl;dr -- roundabouts work better when accompanied by other roundabouts.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2019, 10:08:52 PM
Another ConnDOT quirk:  a lack of signage standards for school zones.  It seems as though every municipality signs them differently.  At least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on January 29, 2019, 05:33:26 AM
At least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.

Pretty much all I've seen out west, from about 2005. Timed and/or "when present" are worthless and usually ignored, in my experience. Flashing beacons based on time-of-day are the best solution.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on January 29, 2019, 09:04:39 AM
Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 09:11:52 AM
Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.
LOL states were trolling us back then.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: StogieGuy7 on January 29, 2019, 12:39:02 PM
Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.
Quote



Nevada uses sign post braces like that - though perhaps not as commonly as MnDOT.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 29, 2019, 01:42:47 PM
Something else I just thought of for Vermont:  placename signs where they include the next town or destination and the mileage to it on the bottom.  Here's an example (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/39954752923/).
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 29, 2019, 02:55:17 PM
  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8326/8140284334_f2b2a6508c_b.jpg), New Hampshire (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8149/7617502068_143cc59c1b_b.jpg), and New York (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8206/8161312371_0cfd033a3b_b.jpg) have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:33:56 PM

  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8326/8140284334_f2b2a6508c_b.jpg), New Hampshire (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8149/7617502068_143cc59c1b_b.jpg), and New York (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8206/8161312371_0cfd033a3b_b.jpg) have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.

It's a common thing in many states.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 29, 2019, 03:51:15 PM
  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8326/8140284334_f2b2a6508c_b.jpg), New Hampshire (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8149/7617502068_143cc59c1b_b.jpg), and New York (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8206/8161312371_0cfd033a3b_b.jpg) have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.
I can think of a few examples in Connecticut:

CT-194 WB west of CT-74, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8322288,-72.5556447,3a,75y,330h,87.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ8kYUzY5lpHF6ZSj7kHh1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

CT-74/CT-83 EB/NB east/north of CT-74, Vernon-Rockville: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8646955,-72.475099,3a,37.6y,96.25h,84.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4fwKGTC5y856WWwaWYPAaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

CT-85 NB north of CT-94, Hebron: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6935118,-72.437863,3a,75y,41.28h,76.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEMp08lREMN03_RGLwkse0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Something else I just thought of for Vermont:  placename signs where they include the next town or destination and the mileage to it on the bottom.  Here's an example (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/39954752923/).

Pennsylvania has this for some historic keystone markers ("Danville - 11"): https://www.google.com/maps/@40.99199,-76.4497597,3a,15y,201.28h,81.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s57an0X2G4xs7uQNdRxV_pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:02:53 PM
Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.

I remember those. They were especially dumb when the NMSL was still in effect because at that time the Beltway couldn’t legally be posted higher than 55.
Title: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: fillup420 on January 29, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.

I have lived in both NC and SC. the South surely takes the cake for quirks. NC does things pretty standard and “by the book”. SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:44:56 PM
SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example.

It just looks like a rather normal three-way intersection, except that it's at a bit of a slant.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: index on January 30, 2019, 04:47:21 PM
With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.

I have lived in both NC and SC. the South surely takes the cake for quirks. NC does things pretty standard and “by the book”. SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.


That's actually rather neat, I hadn't paid much thought to that. They also seem to use divided intersections a bit more than other DOTs. Such as the US 701/BUS 701 split on the NC/SC line.


One quirk I can come up with for NC is that the DOT here really, really, really likes superstreets. It seems that every new divided highway's becoming one. Take US 601 in Union County as an example, or the proposed E John Street/Old Monroe Road upgrade. They also really like doing channelized intersections at T-intersections, however it's usually only the side street that gets channelized. A little island is usually added between the two lanes at the intersection, I think they call those dividing islands or something along the lines of that.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 30, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Couple of things I've noted in North Carolina over the years:

(1) The odd wording of the various "state law" signs at the state lines that admonish people to "burn headlights" (referring to driving in the rain and riding a motorcycle in general). I've seen plenty of signs about using headlights in the rain, but only North Carolina posts signs saying to "burn headlights."

(2) I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina—the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 30, 2019, 09:18:21 PM
With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Apparently this is a form of channelization. Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.


Also, isn't South Carolina one of the few states in the South that doesn't allow logo signs in urban areas? Seems like most Southern states allow logo signs in urban areas.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: tdindy88 on January 30, 2019, 09:26:46 PM
(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan refers to their downtowns along freeways in the same fashion.

Here's a view of such a sign along I-75 near Detroit. https://goo.gl/maps/5NEwur9Fowj
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Mapmikey on January 30, 2019, 09:35:32 PM
Quote
One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.

These used to be literally everywhere in SC but they have reconfigured a lot of the ones where there is bigger traffic (or the road was multilaned) and were downright dangerous...they still use YIELD signs at the ending fork if it comes in from the right hand side of the intersecting road.

Quote
Also, isn't South Carolina one of the few states in the South that doesn't allow logo signs in urban areas? Seems like most Southern states allow logo signs in urban areas.

There are logo signs in urban SC cities...here is I-26 near its endpoint in Charleston - https://goo.gl/maps/J5i4uQQXEXy
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Big John on January 30, 2019, 09:37:39 PM
Another thing I only saw in South Carolina are overhead rectangular stop signs.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: index on January 30, 2019, 11:20:57 PM
Another thing I only saw in South Carolina are overhead rectangular stop signs.


Oh yeah, they do that sometimes with dangerous intersections, I have a few of them saved on Google Maps. That rectangular stop sign is specified in the SC supplement to the MUTCD.


https://www.google.com/maps/@34.421574,-81.2976353,3a,75y,287.19h,90.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxzG9e26Dd56t01arKSmBew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9892519,-82.7571614,3a,75y,11.94h,96.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snQyLkk1qFwnQJXQ8maIzQA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656







Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: J N Winkler on January 31, 2019, 12:04:04 AM
I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina—the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan also uses "Downtown" in all caps.  The difference between the two states, AIUI, is that Michigan DOT uses the caps letter size, while NCDOT uses the "small caps" treatment (height of "Downtown" in all caps is equal to lowercase loop height of primary destination legend).

And speaking of Michigan, the divider bar underneath cardinal direction words (informal roadgeek term:  "underlining") is a feature unique to that state, so far as I know, that has now almost completely disappeared.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ctkatz on January 31, 2019, 05:19:57 AM
In South Dakota, if route doesn't hit the WY (for an even-numbered route) or ND (for an odd-numbered route) state lines, the mileage to those lines is added to the mileposts.

This is how you can have a 64-mile long highway have a 300 milepost: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (from the west end of SD 38 in Mitchell)

as I understand it, arizona does (or at least did) the same thing. that's partially why I 17 has high exit numbers and milage even though it's relatively short. I 17 took over mileage of a replaced state highway in north central (?) arizona that did not start at a western or southern border.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1 on January 31, 2019, 07:22:41 AM
I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 31, 2019, 08:33:20 AM
I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.

Exactly. I view it as grammatical because the sign should be an imperative with the reason understood. I’ll show my age here—it’s sort of like “you understood” when you diagram a sentence. “Reduce Speed Ahead” tells you to slow down with the unstated, but understood, reason being “because the speed limit is about to decrease.” (Of course “you understood” applies here too because of the imperative.)

“Reduced Speed Ahead” depends on driver compliance with the speed limit sign, which is often the exception rather than the rule!
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: PHLBOS on January 31, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
Traffic circles are another NJ specific thing, though they're slowly going away. A recent change is over-sized two-sided mile markers with a direction and route shield, every 0.2 miles on freeways and 0.5 miles on non-freeway state and US routes. These may exist elsewhere, but I have only seen them in NJ so far.

Traffic circles (not modern roundabouts) exist in other places than New Jersey.  Massachusetts comes to mind.
Massachusetts refers to those as rotaries... although some of them have recently been restriped to resemble roundabouts.

At least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.
PennDOT uses such as well.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: vdeane on January 31, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan refers to their downtowns along freeways in the same fashion.

Here's a view of such a sign along I-75 near Detroit. https://goo.gl/maps/5NEwur9Fowj
Québec is similar, though they say centre-ville.
http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=a40&state=QC&file=101_0549.JPG
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: hbelkins on January 31, 2019, 01:30:02 PM
Couple of things I've noted in North Carolina over the years:

(1) The odd wording of the various "state law" signs at the state lines that admonish people to "burn headlights" (referring to driving in the rain and riding a motorcycle in general). I've seen plenty of signs about using headlights in the rain, but only North Carolina posts signs saying to "burn headlights."

(2) I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina—the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Agree with "burn headllights." Something else NC does is sign advance speed limit reductions as "Begin 35 1000 Feet Ahead."
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 02:20:44 PM


I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.

Exactly. I view it as grammatical because the sign should be an imperative with the reason understood. I’ll show my age here—it’s sort of like “you understood” when you diagram a sentence. “Reduce Speed Ahead” tells you to slow down with the unstated, but understood, reason being “because the speed limit is about to decrease.” (Of course “you understood” applies here too because of the imperative.)

“Reduced Speed Ahead” depends on driver compliance with the speed limit sign, which is often the exception rather than the rule!

Oregon.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WBhVIsiNJRM/R_72rwpLMmI/AAAAAAAAA28/H2epfwtCfkk/s400/Speed35.jpg)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: 1995hoo on January 31, 2019, 03:05:58 PM
^^^^

I’ve never been to Oregon, but to me that sign seems to be prescribing your speed—you shall go 35, no more and no less.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: thenetwork on January 31, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
COLORADO:

Multiplexes are rarely signed or even acknowledged.

US routes which parallel Interstates are  signed sporadically and can start or stop without any notice.

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
COLORADO:

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

Where?
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: swhuck on January 31, 2019, 06:08:46 PM
Texas:
I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

They're rare, but they're out there.

Some that came to mind...

Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84

One that I recall is a rather impressive B4-style parclo along US-75 @ Northwest Hwy (Loop 12) in Dallas, complete with through ramps for the frontage road: http://bit.ly/2sH1eFf

I normally don't like Texas-style freeways, but they did a great job with this interchange and the nearby ones, complete with excellent signal placement too. Perhaps the least Texas-y interchange in the state!

/bonks self

I should have known this one; I drive through it every day. The way the frontage roads in the area work is quite complex, but the parclo is indeed a parclo. I guess all the frontage roads confused me when I considered the style of the interchange. That said, US75 between I-635 and downtown is an excellently designed freeway in many respects, in direct contrast to some of the stuff left over from when they thought left hand exits were cool. Northbound I-35E to Westbound I-635, anyone? /gag

Another one for Texas -- city limits signs both when entering and leaving the city.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: swhuck on January 31, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
A number of years back I lived in Pennsylvania for a while, and I'm curious whether these quirks are still around.

Stop signs on freeway onramps (usually rural). I've seen yield signs on onramps elsewhere, but never stop signs.
Many multiple lane roads with poor to absent lane markings
Stop signs marked as "Except right turns" or something similar depending on the intersection.

Of course, the Schuylkill Expressway could probably qualify as a quirk in its own right. :)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: skluth on January 31, 2019, 06:22:59 PM
^^^^

I’ve never been to Oregon, but to me that sign seems to be prescribing your speed—you shall go 35, no more and no less.

That reminded me of this.

'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once at the number three, being the third number be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Ian on January 31, 2019, 07:15:50 PM
I've noticed that some road signage/traffic signal quirks aren't limited to just one single state, but several states close together in a region. This can be attributed to regional weather patterns, contractors supplying the same products to multiple states, or may be surrounding states simply copying off each other for lack of originality. Some examples...
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on January 31, 2019, 07:29:52 PM
A number of years back I lived in Pennsylvania for a while, and I'm curious whether these quirks are still around.

Stop signs on freeway onramps (usually rural). I've seen yield signs on onramps elsewhere, but never stop signs.
Many multiple lane roads with poor to absent lane markings
Stop signs marked as "Except right turns" or something similar depending on the intersection.

Of course, the Schuylkill Expressway could probably qualify as a quirk in its own right. :)
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: froggie on January 31, 2019, 07:40:57 PM
^ EB on-ramp at I-78/Exit 35 used to have one...not sure if it still does.

Pretty sure I recall a few along I-70 between Washington and New Stanton from years ago...but I think those have been taken out by reconstruction projects that improved the on-ramps.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Big John on January 31, 2019, 07:48:18 PM
^^ Not rural, but the Squirrel Hill interchange in Pittsburgh has a stop sign.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: US 89 on January 31, 2019, 07:58:38 PM
COLORADO:

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

Where?

US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: Mapmikey on January 31, 2019, 08:09:32 PM
^ EB on-ramp at I-78/Exit 35 used to have one...not sure if it still does.

Pretty sure I recall a few along I-70 between Washington and New Stanton from years ago...but I think those have been taken out by reconstruction projects that improved the on-ramps.

At least one was still there as of July - I-70 at PA 51: https://goo.gl/maps/8hLfAyUDim22
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: DaBigE on January 31, 2019, 11:43:20 PM
  • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8199/28882145923_d4072f9f11_b.jpg) in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).

I think that's the first time I've heard of a doghouse-style referred to as traditional. Granted, I've been surrounded by the inline-5 for the vast majority of my life, so my view has been a little skewed. Which came first, the doghouse or the inline-5? I always thought the doghouse came second, as an evolution of the inline-5 -- as a way to conserve vertical space.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on February 01, 2019, 12:09:13 AM
COLORADO:

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

Where?

US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.
Also, U.S. 24 between Limon and the Kansas border. U.S. 24 is supposedly routed along I-70 east of Limon, but then appears on the I-70 north frontage road west of Seibert, starting at a county road with no interchange. It follows the old pre-interstate route to Burlington, and then angles northeast. However, at the east city limits, it ends. The road from there to the Kansas border is a state frontage road but not part of U.S. 24, and where it enters Kansas it is a county road until it reaches the Kanorado city limits, where it becomes a Kansas state highway that connects to I-70.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: jakeroot on February 01, 2019, 03:02:44 AM
Texas:
I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

They're rare, but they're out there.

Some that came to mind...

Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84

One that I recall is a rather impressive B4-style parclo along US-75 @ Northwest Hwy (Loop 12) in Dallas, complete with through ramps for the frontage road: http://bit.ly/2sH1eFf

I normally don't like Texas-style freeways, but they did a great job with this interchange and the nearby ones, complete with excellent signal placement too. Perhaps the least Texas-y interchange in the state!

/bonks self

I should have known this one; I drive through it every day. The way the frontage roads in the area work is quite complex, but the parclo is indeed a parclo. I guess all the frontage roads confused me when I considered the style of the interchange. That said, US75 between I-635 and downtown is an excellently designed freeway in many respects, in direct contrast to some of the stuff left over from when they thought left hand exits were cool. Northbound I-35E to Westbound I-635, anyone? /gag

I will say that, on satellite view, it sticks out quite a bit! It's a very urban freeway, with appropriately-tight urban interchanges as a result. The odd one out being that Parclo, which takes up a huge amount of room. Judging by historic aerials, Northwest Hwy must have been predicted to be a very important road, as the original cloverleaf at the interchange was the only free-flowing junction on the Central Expressway for about 10 or 15 years, until the interchange with the 635 ring road was built in the late 60s.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 08:00:18 AM
I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
Post by: ipeters61 on February 01, 2019, 08:20:55 AM
    • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8199/28882145923_d4072f9f11_b.jpg) in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).

    I think that's the first time I've heard of a doghouse-style referred to as traditional. Granted, I've been surrounded by the inline-5 for the vast majority of my life, so my view has been a little skewed. Which came first, the doghouse or the inline-5? I always thought the doghouse came second, as an evolution of the inline-5 -- as a way to conserve vertical space.
    I felt like Connecticut had a lot of inline-4 and inline-5 "tower signals."

    (inline-4) Pleasant Valley Road at US-5, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8194272,-72.609283,3a,41.1y,282.02h,89.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0Dnhri-9Bm5LMRBeZspCUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    (inline-4) I-291 EB/CT-30 at US-5, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8038682,-72.6158246,3a,75y,116.42h,87.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk6cukai62nk0qPcczT3W1A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    (inline-5) Sullivan Avenue at Pierce Road, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8381232,-72.5585589,3a,75y,335.53h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEc9BbCgkot7oLK0Ulwn_Jw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    (inline-4) US-44 at US-5, East Hartford: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7693939,-72.643923,3a,75y,130.3h,92.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1seDlBT7IdI4D1klDHyeDpkg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeDlBT7IdI4D1klDHyeDpkg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D7.1674724%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    (inline-4) CT-140 at CT-191, East Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9259079,-72.5446865,3a,75y,74.48h,86.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIOQvbYaU1PEzBXh1qYzVeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    (inline-5) CT-3 at CT-160, Rocky Hill: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6582088,-72.6782367,3a,75y,272.75h,84.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9yxql2RTs6toOHR18GJHjA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656[/list]
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2019, 08:24:49 AM
    I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.

    Which aspect of it?  Upkeep is abismal and varies wildly by district but on the flip side I there is some stuff that I would consider a plus like cut-out shields. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
    I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.

    Which aspect of it?  Upkeep is abismal and varies wildly by district but on the flip side I there is some stuff that I would consider a plus like cut-out shields.

    Inconsistent sign placement, the sign could be in the median, the right side, a tiny sign on the right side, or behind a tree. 
    The inside exit number tab is stupid, it's supposed to be outside and above the main sign for a reason, to catch you eye!
    Exit numbers are spotty on signs to begin with
    The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them! they're unreadable at night!!!  :banghead:
    No mile markers on their interstates. 
    Terrible weaving segments. 
    At grade state highways are horribly signed, good luck following them. 

    Caltrans weird quirk is that they fuck up signage on a consistent basis.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MNHighwayMan on February 01, 2019, 10:18:19 AM
    The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them!

    Finally, someone else who agrees! :nod:
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: PHLBOS on February 01, 2019, 10:46:34 AM
    • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8199/28882145923_d4072f9f11_b.jpg) in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).
    I believe that in-line tower signals long predates the doghouse-style signals.

    Growing up in eastern MA during the 70s; inline-4 tower signals were quite common.  In-line 5s were rare but did exist even back then.  The first in-line 5 signalhead I saw was along MA 114 in Peabody circa 1973 at this intersection (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peabody,+MA/@42.5344587,-70.9292798,19.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3125bb7f609f1:0xe0c86ab48e23439f!8m2!3d42.5278731!4d-70.9286609).  From 1973 to about the late 90s/early 2000s, these in-line 5 signalheads featured R-Y-G-GSA-GRA and faced MA 114 eastbound traffic on Andover St.

    Two green-phases existed for eastbound Andover St.:

    1.  The first allowed only straight (onto Central St.) plus right-turn (onto Endicott St.) movements - the in-lines would show GSA-GRA.  Left-turn movement (onto Pulaski St./through 114 eastbound) would not be allowed to proceed - a separate R-Y-GLA would be lit red.
    2.  The second phase allowed all movement s from eastbound Andover St. and the in-lines would only show the green ball and the left signal would light GLA.

    In subsequent years (mid 1980s); the left-most in-line was modified to replace the GRA lens with a GLA lens.  As a result, the first phase would only show a GSA for that one signalhead and the second phase would show both the GSA & GLA... the other in-line signalhead would still show GSA & GRA.  This modification meant that the centrally-located green ball on those in-line 5s would never light up again.

    When these signals were replaced with the current ones that did away with the in-line 5s; the two phases for eastbound Andover St. were reversed (first-phase, all eastbound traffic gets the green/second phase, left turns to Pulaski St. are prohibited via a separate signalhead displaying a RLA).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thenetwork on February 01, 2019, 11:30:52 AM
    COLORADO:

    US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

    Where?

    US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

    Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.

    That's the first one to cross my mind.

    Another one is in Glenwood Springs, CO.  https://goo.gl/maps/rvij2VBod4v

    US-6 follows the frontage road -- which is a dead end street that does not allow access back to I-70 where US-6 "theoretically" shares the freeway with the former until it leaves and parallels again at exit 109.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Ian on February 01, 2019, 11:47:55 AM
    I think that's the first time I've heard of a doghouse-style referred to as traditional. Granted, I've been surrounded by the inline-5 for the vast majority of my life, so my view has been a little skewed. Which came first, the doghouse or the inline-5? I always thought the doghouse came second, as an evolution of the inline-5 -- as a way to conserve vertical space.

    I believe that in-line tower signals long predates the doghouse-style signals.

    I suppose I used the term "traditional" a bit loosely. The point I was trying to make was that while most of the country moved to doghouses, some states in the Midwest continued their strict use of tower signals.

    Some states use both. California, for example, likes to mix it up by using doghouses on overhead PPLT's with towers on the sides.

    The topic of PPLT signals brought this question to my mind. Are there any other states (or towns/counties) besides Rhode Island and New Jersey that still use bi-modal green/yellow arrows in lieu of doghouses/towers for PPLT and right turn signals? I've seen those arrows used for 3-section FYA heads, but haven't seen too many states that still consistently install them on newer PPLT's.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 12:11:10 PM
    The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them!

    Finally, someone else who agrees! :nod:

    you should see those things at night, they're black and barely can be seen. screw that! I don't know how caltrans is allowed to get away with such shitty signage on their interstates. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on February 01, 2019, 12:57:15 PM
    The topic of PPLT signals brought this question to my mind. Are there any other states (or towns/counties) besides Rhode Island and New Jersey that still use bi-modal green/yellow arrows in lieu of doghouses/towers for PPLT and right turn signals? I've seen those arrows used for 3-section FYA heads, but haven't seen too many states that still consistently install them on newer PPLT's.

    Definitely the most common right-turn filter signals in Western Washington. I can think of many new ones. Some places like Federal Way will use doghouses overhead and 5-section towers on the pole (like CA), but they are relatively unusual in using non-bi-modal signals.

    Up until about 2014 or so, bi-modal left turn signals were definitely the most common left turn signal installed in Western Washington (apart from a couple cities and Pierce County in general). But the FYA is now the norm (increasingly popular for right turn signals now, too).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: US 89 on February 01, 2019, 12:58:47 PM
    COLORADO:

    US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

    Where?

    US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

    Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.

    That's the first one to cross my mind.

    Another one is in Glenwood Springs, CO.  https://goo.gl/maps/rvij2VBod4v

    US-6 follows the frontage road -- which is a dead end street that does not allow access back to I-70 where US-6 "theoretically" shares the freeway with the former until it leaves and parallels again at exit 109.

    How about US 6 in Mack? That's where they have that END US 6 sign, and as far as I can tell, there isn't a single US 6 sign on the road connecting to I-70 exit 11. I don't think it's state maintained either. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2222338,-108.8635537,16z

    There's also the issue of US 50 in that area, too. Signage in Grand Junction is pretty clear that US 50 should continue west on the old road into Fruita, but I'm not seeing much if any signage on that. Google thinks 50 leaves the old road for I-70 at the SH-139 junction, but a quick GSV shows there isn't a single US 50 shield posted there.

    This is worse than I thought.  :crazy:
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2019, 01:02:57 PM
    The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them!

    Finally, someone else who agrees! :nod:

    you should see those things at night, they're black and barely can be seen. screw that! I don't know how caltrans is allowed to get away with such shitty signage on their interstates.

    Most of that is probably attributable to wear and tear on the older Signs.  There is still some newer button-copy/reflective paint BGSs in District 6 that were installed no less than two decades ago that look pretty good/reflect well.  The reflective paint shields still reflect up to 4-5 decades after installation in extreme circumstances.  Regarding the California MUTCD I tend to prefer it over the Federal MUTCD just simply because it’s slightly different.  I know that’s not a big thing for traffic control fans but I tend to find 100% uniform signage to be boring to look at. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MNHighwayMan on February 01, 2019, 01:58:35 PM
    The topic of PPLT signals brought this question to my mind. Are there any other states (or towns/counties) besides Rhode Island and New Jersey that still use bi-modal green/yellow arrows in lieu of doghouses/towers for PPLT and right turn signals? I've seen those arrows used for 3-section FYA heads, but haven't seen too many states that still consistently install them on newer PPLT's.

    Des Moines has a bunch of four section PPLT towers with bi-modal arrows, but they are all older installs. I have no idea on exactly how old they are, and they're mixed in with a bunch of both five-section towers and doghouses—a real menagerie of signal equipment setups around here!

    All recent (last few years) new signal installations use FYAs.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on February 01, 2019, 02:18:14 PM
    US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

    I had no idea these situations existed before this thread.

    US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

    Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.

    Physical connection provided by Academy Blvd.  But I get what you're saying.

    Also, U.S. 24 between Limon and the Kansas border. U.S. 24 is supposedly routed along I-70 east of Limon, but then appears on the I-70 north frontage road west of Seibert, starting at a county road with no interchange. It follows the old pre-interstate route to Burlington, and then angles northeast. However, at the east city limits, it ends. The road from there to the Kansas border is a state frontage road but not part of U.S. 24, and where it enters Kansas it is a county road until it reaches the Kanorado city limits, where it becomes a Kansas state highway that connects to I-70.

    Wow, US-24 through eastern Colorado is freaking insane!

    Another one is in Glenwood Springs, CO.  https://goo.gl/maps/rvij2VBod4v

    US-6 follows the frontage road -- which is a dead end street that does not allow access back to I-70 where US-6 "theoretically" shares the freeway with the former until it leaves and parallels again at exit 109.

    Physical connection provided by Exit #114.  But, again, I get what you're saying.

    How about US 6 in Mack? That's where they have that END US 6 sign, and as far as I can tell, there isn't a single US 6 sign on the road connecting to I-70 exit 11. I don't think it's state maintained either. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2222338,-108.8635537,16z

    There's also the issue of US 50 in that area, too. Signage in Grand Junction is pretty clear that US 50 should continue west on the old road into Fruita, but I'm not seeing much if any signage on that. Google thinks 50 leaves the old road for I-70 at the SH-139 junction, but a quick GSV shows there isn't a single US 50 shield posted there.

    This is worse than I thought.  :crazy:

    According to MESalek, US-6 silently follows I-70 to Mack;  whether the connection between Exit #11 and signed US-6 is included in that description isn't entirely clear.

    I'm not certain US-50 even legislatively exists west of Grand Junction BL-70.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Roadwarriors79 on February 20, 2019, 03:24:47 PM
    In South Dakota, if route doesn't hit the WY (for an even-numbered route) or ND (for an odd-numbered route) state lines, the mileage to those lines is added to the mileposts.

    This is how you can have a 64-mile long highway have a 300 milepost: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (from the west end of SD 38 in Mitchell)

    as I understand it, arizona does (or at least did) the same thing. that's partially why I 17 has high exit numbers and milage even though it's relatively short. I 17 took over mileage of a replaced state highway in north central (?) arizona that did not start at a western or southern border.

    Yes, Arizona and the way it mileposts some highways. In a lot of cases, they are inherited from an older numbered highway. I-17 inherited the mileposts from AZ 69, as an example.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: bugo on February 21, 2019, 03:57:58 AM
    Indiana:

    Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).
    Arkansas is infamous for this.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: bugo on February 21, 2019, 04:01:37 AM


    I've noted before that in Michigan, one doesn't pay tolls at the Mackinac Bridge and Canadian border crossing facilities, one pays fares.
    (https://i.imgur.com/nHJ4Eya.jpg)

    Oklahoma uses "fares" on its turnpike system.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ipeters61 on February 21, 2019, 08:27:35 AM
    Indiana:

    Separate state highways with the same number.  Some original due to the grid system and others due to the transfer of state highways in urban areas to cities (another quirk).
    Arkansas is infamous for this.
    Pennsylvania has a few interstates that also have state routes.  Off the top of my head I can think of 283 (PA-283 and I-283 intersect each other) and 380 (opposite sides of the state).

    Delaware has DE-9 in Kent and New Castle Counties and US-9 in Sussex County (distinct routes).  We also have DE-202 in Wilmington in addition to US-202 (though all points of US-202 south of DE-202 are multiplexes to its end).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: J N Winkler on February 21, 2019, 11:27:16 AM
    I have never understood why Michigan DOT uses the term fare for signing on toll facilities when the actual enabling legislation (at least for the Mackinac Bridge) uses the word toll.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: plain on February 21, 2019, 09:18:36 PM
    The topic of PPLT signals brought this question to my mind. Are there any other states (or towns/counties) besides Rhode Island and New Jersey that still use bi-modal green/yellow arrows in lieu of doghouses/towers for PPLT and right turn signals? I've seen those arrows used for 3-section FYA heads, but haven't seen too many states that still consistently install them on newer PPLT's.

    I'm late with this response but the city of Charlottesville, VA still uses 4-section signals with bi-modal yellow/green arrows extensively. Matter of fact, I don't recall seeing an FYA or even a doghouse inside that city.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Scott5114 on February 21, 2019, 09:33:41 PM
    Oklahoma uses "fares" on its turnpike system.

    They may in their literature, but to my knowledge, "toll" is always used on signs.
    (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Creek_East_plaza_apch.jpg/800px-Creek_East_plaza_apch.jpg)
    (https://i.imgur.com/qLJr1WE.jpg)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Brandon on February 22, 2019, 07:17:31 PM
    I have never understood why Michigan DOT uses the term fare for signing on toll facilities when the actual enabling legislation (at least for the Mackinac Bridge) uses the word toll.

    It probably dates from when these bridges were ferries.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on February 22, 2019, 08:08:22 PM
    I have never understood why Michigan DOT uses the term fare for signing on toll facilities when the actual enabling legislation (at least for the Mackinac Bridge) uses the word toll.

    It probably dates from when these bridges were ferries.

    But what makes Michigan unique in this respect? Certainly there are countless bridges across the US that use the term "toll" despite having replaced ferries.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: J N Winkler on February 22, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
    My theory, which was my original reason for looking up the Mackinac Bridge enabling legislation, is that Michigan had some law or constitutional provision that forbade toll facilities and that designating estuarial crossings as fare-payable infrastructure was the accepted workaround, similar to Oregon using just "Speed" on what are functionally speed limit signs.  But if the actual legislation itself uses the word toll, then I don't think that theory is tenable.  Michigan has also gone through (if memory serves) four constitutions, the most recent being adopted in 1961, well after the Mackinac Bridge opened.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DandyDan on February 23, 2019, 01:46:23 AM
    One thing I noticed here in Iowa, or at least Mason City, is that if there is a stop sign at a divided highway, the one way sign atop the stop sign will be as big as, if not bigger than, the stop sign itself.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: rarnold on February 24, 2019, 03:50:12 PM
    Iowa
    -"Speed Zone Ahead" signs instead of "Reduce(d) Speed Ahead"
    -On new 3-digit state and US highways, shields are using Series B numbers
    -Though disappearing, the small county line signs placed above route shields
    -gravel shoulders, even on freeways like Avenue of the Saints and US 20 (tractors allowed on most of these expressways)
    -unique junction plates that are the width of the shield
    -rumble strips at stop signs (not unique to Iowa, but they used to be at all stop signs)
    -Interchange numbers on small plates below shield at Interstate interchanges
    -Buckle Up for Life! signs
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: silverback1065 on February 25, 2019, 06:05:25 PM
    why does oregon not use SPEED LIMIT signs, but instead just uses SPEED signs ?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Bickendan on February 25, 2019, 07:39:33 PM
    That's sadly phasing out.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on February 25, 2019, 08:51:38 PM
    why does oregon not use SPEED LIMIT signs, but instead just uses SPEED signs ?

    Every time I try to understand the difference between SPEED and SPEED LIMIT, my brain starts to hurt too much.  Hopefully someone else can shed some light.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on February 26, 2019, 12:04:19 AM
    Someone should vet me, but I think I got it...

    Has to do with the way Oregon's speed law is/was written. Oregon uses a "Basic Rule" for speed limits. Basically, Oregon has no statutory speed limit, with the only limit being "reasonable and prudent" plus several other factors (but none being a fixed limit, hence why there was no "LIMIT" wording). You could conceivably exceed the posted "limits", but exceeding the posted speed was prima-facie evidence for a speeding ticket, so it wasn't like Montana.

    But things have changed...

    As of 2003, it is illegal (according to ORS 811.111) to exceed 65 on interstates (or whatever else is posted), or 55 on other roads that aren't otherwise posted (plus a few other situations). I think this new law is why "LIMIT" is showing up on more signs.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 26, 2019, 08:00:46 AM
    Someone should vet me, but I think I got it...

    Has to do with the way Oregon's speed law is/was written. Oregon uses a "Basic Rule" for speed limits. Basically, Oregon has no statutory speed limit, with the only limit being "reasonable and prudent" plus several other factors (but none being a fixed limit, hence why there was no "LIMIT" wording). You could conceivably exceed the posted "limits", but exceeding the posted speed was prima-facie evidence for a speeding ticket, so it wasn't like Montana.

    But things have changed...

    As of 2003, it is illegal (according to ORS 811.111) to exceed 65 on interstates (or whatever else is posted), or 55 on other roads that aren't otherwise posted (plus a few other situations). I think this new law is why "LIMIT" is showing up on more signs.
    "ilegal"
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Gnutella on February 26, 2019, 09:24:50 AM
    PennDOT has colored detour routes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanently_signed_detour_route) in the event of major highway closures, and also has blue-on-white jurisdiction signs (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Poyntelle_PennDOT_Sign.JPG/220px-Poyntelle_PennDOT_Sign.JPG) for every country, city, borough, township and village.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: bzakharin on February 26, 2019, 09:53:39 AM
    Not a DOT, but for some reason the NYS Thruway Authority took it upon themselves to post "New Jersey State Line" signs at both places its jurisdiction touches the state:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1134181,-74.162377,3a,75y,205.64h,85.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBc0nGehS56w2wT5nuJRV-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0664544,-74.0570977,3a,75y,196.85h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skjLUWVK6q1aTwoeQnkt2dw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    Oddly, the same isn't done with Pennsylvania, Connecticut or Massachusetts. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ipeters61 on February 26, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
    Not a DOT, but for some reason the NYS Thruway Authority took it upon themselves to post "New Jersey State Line" signs at both places its jurisdiction touches the state:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1134181,-74.162377,3a,75y,205.64h,85.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBc0nGehS56w2wT5nuJRV-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0664544,-74.0570977,3a,75y,196.85h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skjLUWVK6q1aTwoeQnkt2dw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    Oddly, the same isn't done with Connecticut or Massachusetts.
    Not for an actual "state border," but for the instances where a road that is primarily in New York briefly cuts into another state:

    On I-684 (NYSDOT), you get "Entering Greenwich Connecticut": https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0877427,-73.7176341,3a,75y,23.63h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX0-nLq0lIhOcWhaXH2g0MA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

    On I-86 (NYSDOT), you get "State Border" when it enters Pennsylvania: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.000188,-76.5539686,3a,75y,103.15h,83.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1CWfcsP3NgwZbDSZ_HCeDQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: vdeane on February 26, 2019, 12:58:52 PM
    Not a DOT, but for some reason the NYS Thruway Authority took it upon themselves to post "New Jersey State Line" signs at both places its jurisdiction touches the state:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1134181,-74.162377,3a,75y,205.64h,85.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBc0nGehS56w2wT5nuJRV-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0664544,-74.0570977,3a,75y,196.85h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skjLUWVK6q1aTwoeQnkt2dw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
    Oddly, the same isn't done with Pennsylvania, Connecticut or Massachusetts. 
    Then there's this (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1143333,-74.1615538,3a,50.3y,13.69h,81.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJtEOmvOFsO5YBdK04r9Tmw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)... NYSTA doesn't usually post county line signs (the only other instance I can think of off the top of my head is the Bronx/Westchester line on the mainline and I-95), and nowhere else can I think of municipalities being signed.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on February 26, 2019, 02:02:10 PM
    "ilegal"

    Maybe if you speak Spanish...
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: US71 on February 26, 2019, 02:36:18 PM
    Arkansas is notorious for not posting multiplexes (like US 71/US 62 along I-49) or posting "TO" along what should be multiplexed routes (such as US 412 TO AR 59).

    They also spend a lot of money in the NW corner or central parts of the state, but ignore everything else.
     
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Zeffy on February 26, 2019, 06:37:48 PM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Ian on February 27, 2019, 12:14:32 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:

    Outside of Philadelphia, I've also seen distances posted in 8ths (https://goo.gl/maps/tNQz5ha8o7B2).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MantyMadTown on February 27, 2019, 01:42:07 AM
    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ilpt4u on February 27, 2019, 01:48:54 AM
    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?
    InDOT does on Urban/Suburban Interstate segments, like I-80/94 in NW Indiana, I-65, 69, 70, 74, 465, 865 in/around Indy, I-64, 65, 265 across the Ohio from Louisville, I-69 in Evansville...they kinda do it on new I-69 in Bloomington, but it is inconsistent there
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MantyMadTown on February 27, 2019, 02:02:55 AM
    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?
    InDOT does on Urban/Suburban Interstate segments, like I-80/94 in NW Indiana, I-65, 69, 70, 74, 465, 865 in/around Indy, I-64, 65, 265 across the Ohio from Louisville, I-69 in Evansville...they kinda do it on new I-69 in Bloomington, but it is inconsistent there

    Ok so I guess it's not a weird quirk. I was just going off the fractions of a mile thing Zeffy posted. But those are two different things...
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on February 27, 2019, 02:12:06 AM
    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?
    InDOT does on Urban/Suburban Interstate segments, like I-80/94 in NW Indiana, I-65, 69, 70, 74, 465, 865 in/around Indy, I-64, 65, 265 across the Ohio from Louisville, I-69 in Evansville...they kinda do it on new I-69 in Bloomington, but it is inconsistent there

    Ok so I guess it's not a weird quirk. I was just going off the fractions of a mile thing Zeffy posted. But those are two different things...

    It's an MUTCD standard, see Section 2H.05 & 2H.06 (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/part2h.htm): Intermediate Reference Location and Enhanced Reference Location signs.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MNHighwayMan on February 27, 2019, 07:46:46 AM
    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?

    Not a quirk. Those are standard enhanced mile markers (sign D10-5 in the MUTCD) and lots of states use them now.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ipeters61 on February 27, 2019, 07:59:39 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:
    I think the average person would have trouble comprehending 2/5 as opposed to 4/10.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jeffandnicole on February 27, 2019, 08:12:45 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:
    I think the average person would have trouble comprehending 2/5 as opposed to 4/10.

    At least 10ths are shown on an odometer.

    But yeah, saying 1/4 or 1/2 instead of 4/10 would just be the normal way to go.  People aren't going to notice the few hundred feet difference.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on February 27, 2019, 09:15:01 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:
    I think the average person would have trouble comprehending 2/5 as opposed to 4/10.

    At least 10ths are shown on an odometer.

    Not as regularly as they used to be. My previous vehicle dropped the tenths as soon as I rolled over 100K. My current vehicle has never displayed tenths of a mile.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: PHLBOS on February 27, 2019, 09:29:57 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:

    Outside of Philadelphia, I've also seen distances posted in 8ths (https://goo.gl/maps/tNQz5ha8o7B2).
    PA isn't/wasn't the only state that does/did such.  My first EXIT 1/8 MILE sign siting (as a kid) was back in the early 70s along US 1 southbound in Danvers, MA approaching the MA 114 interchange.  Such was the predecessor BGS to this current EXIT 800 FEET BGS (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5625411,-70.9768231,3a,75y,194.15h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG2X-MsQaxZXbac4chNQONA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ipeters61 on February 27, 2019, 10:05:29 AM
    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:

    Outside of Philadelphia, I've also seen distances posted in 8ths (https://goo.gl/maps/tNQz5ha8o7B2).
    PA isn't/wasn't the only state that does/did such.  My first EXIT 1/8 MILE sign siting (as a kid) was back in the early 70s along US 1 southbound in Danvers, MA approaching the MA 114 interchange.  Such was the predecessor BGS to this current EXIT 800 FEET BGS (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5625411,-70.9768231,3a,75y,194.15h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG2X-MsQaxZXbac4chNQONA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
    Delaware has some oddball distances on DE-141 at Exit 5: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7170166,-75.6104965,3a,75y,317.2h,86.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm9K_uAutnACVl2wXnxhVDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    ...and at Exit 4: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7203013,-75.6142695,3a,75y,147.97h,82.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIF0W4J6Y8Ao3oh3_G_4c5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on February 27, 2019, 02:00:35 PM
    My previous vehicle dropped the tenths as soon as I rolled over 100K. My current vehicle has never displayed tenths of a mile.

    You don't have a trip odometer?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on February 27, 2019, 02:14:03 PM
    Having distances in 10ths would certainly be my preference. It's like a halfway point between the imperial system and the metric system.

    Driving around in Canada, though you may not know how long a metre is, at least the distances are easy to calculate into other metric units. A sign saying "400 metres" is effectively saying "4/10 km". Although a sign saying "4/10 Mi" is not easily converted to feet or yards, at least its easier to comprehend than "2/5 Mi", which has to be converted to a base-ten fraction to be calculated with your trip odometer (which does display tenths in decimal form, unlike my standard odometer which has no tenths display at all). As long as trip computers have decimals and not fractions, I see no reason to reduce fractions on signs into a form that has to be expanded to be understood.

    I would much prefer an approximation of "4/10 mi" instead of 2000 feet or something close, which means nothing to me at 60 mph.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Scott5114 on February 27, 2019, 07:08:21 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Big John on February 27, 2019, 07:14:25 PM
    I wonder why horse racing times were given in fifth second increments.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Ben114 on February 27, 2019, 07:32:47 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
    just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT
    Post by: ilpt4u on February 27, 2019, 07:40:24 PM
    a sign saying "4/10 Mi" is not easily converted to feet or yards, at least its easier to comprehend than "2/5 Mi", which has to be converted to a base-ten fraction to be calculated with your trip odometer (which does display tenths in decimal form, unlike my standard odometer which has no tenths display at all). As long as trip computers have decimals and not fractions, I see no reason to reduce fractions on signs into a form that has to be expanded to be understood.

    I would much prefer an approximation of "4/10 mi" instead of 2000 feet or something close, which means nothing to me at 60 mph.
    1 mile = 5280 feet = ~1600 meters.

    Rounding purposes, especially at highway speeds, 5000 feet is a close approximation for 1 mile. Every tenth of a mile is (28 feet more than) 500 feet

    Signing distances in footage multiples of 500 is practically equivalent to tenths of a mile

    .4 mi = 4/10 mi = ~2000 feet. All the same

    Don’t know what states exactly, but driving around, especially construction zones, I tend to notice signs in 500 foot multiples for distance...500 feet, 1000 feet, etc. Not 1/10, 2/10s, etc

    Now in meter multiples of 160 would be fun, but it is still functionally equivalent to tenths of a mile

    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on February 28, 2019, 08:58:04 AM
    My previous vehicle dropped the tenths as soon as I rolled over 100K. My current vehicle has never displayed tenths of a mile.

    You don't have a trip odometer?

    It does, but I don't have it displayed very often. Outside of checking it at the gas station, I rarely ever have it displayed.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on February 28, 2019, 01:34:11 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Figuring out sixths is worse.  And I have to do this a lot when converting between minutes and the decimal of an hour.

    e.g.  50 minutes = 0.833333 hours
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Brandon on February 28, 2019, 07:05:03 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ilpt4u on February 28, 2019, 07:11:49 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
    I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

    There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

    Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: TBKS1 on February 28, 2019, 07:30:02 PM
    When it comes to AHTD or ARDOT, I would probably say that we have a lot of separate state highways with the same number, just like what Indiana does.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Big John on February 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
    I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

    There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

    Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
    Milwaukee is odd as it uses 8 blocks to a mile north-south but 16 blocks to a mile east-west.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on March 01, 2019, 01:37:00 AM
    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Scott5114 on March 01, 2019, 02:06:10 AM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.

    Thanks, that's very helpful.
    (https://i.imgur.com/TRYvzXD.png)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: 1995hoo on March 01, 2019, 07:25:09 AM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
    just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

    The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: froggie on March 01, 2019, 08:24:16 AM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

    Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
    I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

    There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

    Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
    Milwaukee is odd as it uses 8 blocks to a mile north-south but 16 blocks to a mile east-west.

    Odd, but not unheard of.  Minneapolis and those suburbs whose street grids are based on Minneapolis do the same thing.  St. Paul, meanwhile, reverses the north-south and east-west.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Zeffy on March 01, 2019, 08:38:15 AM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
    just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

    The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!

    Who has time to do mental math when driving  :sombrero:
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on March 01, 2019, 09:26:56 AM
    Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

    Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
    just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

    The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!

    Who has the time ability to do mental math when driving  :sombrero:

    FIFY...given the state of today's seemingly shorter attention spans and reliance on technology
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: J N Winkler on March 01, 2019, 11:03:21 AM
    I suspect grid patterns of eighth-mile blocks along one axis and sixteenth-mile blocks along the other are actually pretty common, simply because it makes it easier to lay out oblong rectangular plots of land for single-family houses.  Wichita has such a pattern, oriented the same as Milwaukee's.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on March 01, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    The third most populous city in America.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MikieTimT on March 01, 2019, 01:55:02 PM
    When it comes to AHTD or ARDOT, I would probably say that we have a lot of separate state highways with the same number, just like what Indiana does.

    Oh, there's already a topic on the forum about what ARDOT does in regards to discontinuous segments of a given route number.

    https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23224.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23224.0)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Brandon on March 01, 2019, 04:50:48 PM
    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    The third most populous city in America.

    And many, many other areas of the country on the PLSS.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Bickendan on March 01, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
    Meanwhile, Portland uses 20 blocks to the mile.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: roadman65 on March 01, 2019, 10:49:25 PM
    FDOT having each district have their own designs and sign practices

    For example District 4 uses NY and NC type of signing with guide signs at intersections of two or more state routes to have mileage numbers.  Then post intersection mileage signs are like GDOT using the next two cities instead of the usual next city/ primary control city like the rest of Florida does.

    Then in District 6 (Miami-Dade and Monroe) the 60 mph two lane road max rural speed limit is not applied to rural roads like US 1 and US 41.  Most likely due to the engineers used to seeing urban areas as most of their district is in the Miami metro area.  Other districts impliments that including District 3 (Panhandle) who signs 60 mph sparingly.

    Then US 98 in South Florida is signed E-W due to the D-4 engineers following the cardinal rule to the T of even numbers signed east- west and the fact that east of Belle Glade concurrent with SR 80, the US route is primarily east-west.  However, being that it is signed North- South from the Martin- Okeechobee County Line to Perry it should either be signed N-S all the way to Palm Beach or District 1 should sign US 98 as East- West from where US 98 breaks from US 27 south of Sebring.  As from US 27 to Okeechobee it does run more east-west and at Fort Bassinger n it turns SW to NE. So in essence S Bound US 98 runs northeast where it crosses the Kissimmee River.  So from south of Sebring to Perry it would be N-S and the rest of FL would be E-W.

    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: cabiness42 on March 03, 2019, 08:36:48 AM
    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    The third most populous city in America.

    Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: US 89 on March 03, 2019, 04:30:56 PM
    In downtown Salt Lake City, a block is equal to 792 feet (0.15 miles), so a mile is 6.66... blocks, and 20 blocks is exactly equal to 3 miles

    I've seen some places on the internet cite an 8-block mile for Salt Lake City, which would be based on a 660-foot block. While a Salt Lake City block is indeed 660 feet on each side, the problem with that is it doesn't account for the width of the street, which is an astonishing 132 feet because Brigham Young wanted a wagon to be able to turn around.

    This holds for anywhere east of the Jordan River and north of about 4500 South. To the south and west, the grid breaks down, and the coordinate numbers of the streets aren't exact. This is especially obvious in the west valley, where the coordinates for the section line roads can be either 600, 700, or 800 units apart.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2019, 02:14:47 PM



    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    The third most populous city in America.

    Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)

    Some of those are iffy, IMHO.

    The Eisenhower screws up the blocks between Madison and Roosevelt pretty much all the way across Chicago, such that it's almost impossible to say exactly what the blocks are between the two.  Go down Austin Blvd, for example (perhaps the least messed up by the Ike), and you hit the following cross-streets:  Adams, Jackson, (Van Buren), Harrison, Garfield, Arthington, Fillmore, Roosevelt.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 0 North/South to 1200 South.

    Between Roosevelt and Cermak, things are a little squirrely, too.  17th Street basically doesn't exist anywhere west of California (except for a one-block tidbit at Kostner), and it's only one block between 16th and 18th.  A similar thing happens at 20th Street:  West of Racine, Cullerton basically takes the place of 19th Place, and then the grid basically skips to 21st Street.  It's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 1200 South to 2200 South.

    Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on March 04, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
    For the record (as I did not reply until now), while Chicago does use 1/8 mile blocks, this is not necessarily common to all cities. Of the ten largest cities in Washington, only two, Federal Way and Bellevue, come even close to a 660-foot block length ("10 chains"). But, even those are additionally split into 1/3 and 1/2 blocks, respectively, making the blocks (to the typical driver) much shorter than 660 feet. The "splitting" streets are numbered the same as the streets placed at 660-foot intervals, further compounding the issue.

    The other issue is that, while on the freeway, blocks aren't even remotely relevant. An exit might say "1/4 MILE", which is apparently equivalent to travelling 1/48 of a township? But how would someone reference those block sizes while on the freeway? Especially at Chicago freeway speeds, which may very well be three times the speed of downtown traffic.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Flint1979 on March 04, 2019, 06:03:15 PM



    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    The third most populous city in America.

    Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)

    Some of those are iffy, IMHO.

    The Eisenhower screws up the blocks between Madison and Roosevelt pretty much all the way across Chicago, such that it's almost impossible to say exactly what the blocks are between the two.  Go down Austin Blvd, for example (perhaps the least messed up by the Ike), and you hit the following cross-streets:  Adams, Jackson, (Van Buren), Harrison, Garfield, Arthington, Fillmore, Roosevelt.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 0 North/South to 1200 South.

    Between Roosevelt and Cermak, things are a little squirrely, too.  17th Street basically doesn't exist anywhere west of California (except for a one-block tidbit at Kostner), and it's only one block between 16th and 18th.  A similar thing happens at 20th Street:  West of Racine, Cullerton basically takes the place of 19th Place, and then the grid basically skips to 21st Street.  It's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 1200 South to 2200 South.

    Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.
    I think you mean it's eight streets not eight blocks. Generally in Chicago there is one street in between a block. I know the Bridgeport neighborhood pretty good so I'll use 31st Street between Canal and Halsted. You have Canal, Normal, Parnell, Wallace, Lowe, Union, Emerald, Halsted. That's eight streets but 0 E/W is State Street and 800W is Halsted. So basically in a half mile there are eight streets. Canal isn't exactly on dot 400W I think it's something like 432W if I can remember right.

    With streets being discontinuous I think that's why you get a lot of streets that are skipped. In my city (Saginaw, MI) 4th Street runs next to Genesee and has 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th running in the correct order with 8th being skipped since it ended at Wadsworth on the north side of I-675. 4th runs on an angle and 5th-11th Streets start ending as you go south so by the time it crosses it's third to last street before it ends 12th Street is running a block away.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Super Mateo on March 04, 2019, 07:42:05 PM
    Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.

    I drove Pulaski southbound from Ogden to Southwest Highway the other day, and it's very similar to Kedzie.  26th (with a set of really old traffic signals) is the half mile marker.  South of there, it's 27th, 28th, 30th, and 31st.  29th doesn't exist over there, as it skips right from 28th to 30th.  Looking at the map, each block seems equidistant, even though there is no 29th.  It's more of a numbering quirk than anything else.  How it got to be this way is something I'm going to have to research one day.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2019, 08:58:00 PM
    I think you mean it's eight streets not eight blocks. Generally in Chicago there is one street in between a block.

    That's not a simple distinction.

    On a basic level, in the real world, eight streets means the same thing as eight blocks.  If you take a walk around the block, then you walk a rectangle by turning the same direction at every intersection.  Living two blocks down the street from your in-laws means you pass two intersections along the way to their house.

    However, it gets a little squirrely when city blocks are not squares.  As J N Winkler pointed out, Wichita has eight "blocks" per mile going north-south but sixteen "blocks" per mile going east-west.  Theoretically, however, I still think of this as being eight blocks per mile all around—no matter the number of streets.  The basic grid is still eight by eight;  it's just that there are twice as many streets crammed in along one of the axes.

    I know the Bridgeport neighborhood pretty good so I'll use 31st Street between Canal and Halsted. You have Canal, Normal, Parnell, Wallace, Lowe, Union, Emerald, Halsted. That's eight streets but 0 E/W is State Street and 800W is Halsted. So basically in a half mile there are eight streets. Canal isn't exactly on dot 400W I think it's something like 432W if I can remember right.

    Yeah, using streets that aren't actually on a x00 line isn't particularly useful.  It's also only seven streets, since you shouldn't be counting the one you start out from.

    A more useful example in Bridgeport would be 31st Street between Halsted (800 West) and Racine (1200 West).  Streets encountered:  Lituanica, Morgan, Aberdeen, May, Racine.  At first glance, it appears to be five blocks within a half-mile, but Aberdeen–May–Racine is really the same distance as one "block", so it shouldn't really count as two.

    The way I look at the Madison–Roosevelt, Roosevelt–Cermak, and Cermak–31st anomalies is that the house numbering was simply altered to fit more numbers in.  In most neighborhoods, the basic grid pattern is still eight blocks per mile (with alterations varying by neighborhood), despite the house numbers.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Kulerage on March 04, 2019, 10:11:34 PM
    ConnDOT:
    - State name on Interstate shields

    I've seen this done in South Carolina and maybe Georgia. Seems to be an on/off thing for states.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MantyMadTown on March 05, 2019, 01:53:31 AM
    ConnDOT:
    - State name on Interstate shields

    I've seen this done in South Carolina and maybe Georgia. Seems to be an on/off thing for states.

    Wisconsin doesn't do this at all. I haven't seen our state name on a single interstate shield.

    We should make a list of which states do this and which ones don't.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jeffandnicole on March 05, 2019, 06:04:31 AM
    ConnDOT:
    - State name on Interstate shields

    I've seen this done in South Carolina and maybe Georgia. Seems to be an on/off thing for states.

    Wisconsin doesn't do this at all. I haven't seen our state name on a single interstate shield.

    We should make a list of which states do this and which ones don't.

    While not normal practice, there are some newer I-shields in NJ which contain "New Jersey".
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: formulanone on March 05, 2019, 07:48:56 AM
    ConnDOT:
    - State name on Interstate shields

    I've seen this done in South Carolina and maybe Georgia. Seems to be an on/off thing for states.

    Wisconsin doesn't do this at all. I haven't seen our state name on a single interstate shield.

    We should make a list of which states do this and which ones don't.

    Here's a thread about state-named shields:

    https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12304.0
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Brandon on March 05, 2019, 10:55:18 AM
    ConnDOT:
    - State name on Interstate shields

    I've seen this done in South Carolina and maybe Georgia. Seems to be an on/off thing for states.

    Wisconsin doesn't do this at all. I haven't seen our state name on a single interstate shield.

    We should make a list of which states do this and which ones don't.

    Wisconsin goes one step further and uses a black-backed unisign for them.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2019, 01:34:05 PM
    I know of a Wisconsin I-90 exiting 90/94 westbound at WIS 82.

    Minnesota is kind of weird because there are still plenty of city/county installed state names while almost none remain as state installs. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: mrsman on March 10, 2019, 02:47:44 PM
    I think you mean it's eight streets not eight blocks. Generally in Chicago there is one street in between a block.

    That's not a simple distinction.

    On a basic level, in the real world, eight streets means the same thing as eight blocks.  If you take a walk around the block, then you walk a rectangle by turning the same direction at every intersection.  Living two blocks down the street from your in-laws means you pass two intersections along the way to their house.

    However, it gets a little squirrely when city blocks are not squares.  As J N Winkler pointed out, Wichita has eight "blocks" per mile going north-south but sixteen "blocks" per mile going east-west.  Theoretically, however, I still think of this as being eight blocks per mile all around—no matter the number of streets.  The basic grid is still eight by eight;  it's just that there are twice as many streets crammed in along one of the axes.

    I know the Bridgeport neighborhood pretty good so I'll use 31st Street between Canal and Halsted. You have Canal, Normal, Parnell, Wallace, Lowe, Union, Emerald, Halsted. That's eight streets but 0 E/W is State Street and 800W is Halsted. So basically in a half mile there are eight streets. Canal isn't exactly on dot 400W I think it's something like 432W if I can remember right.

    Yeah, using streets that aren't actually on a x00 line isn't particularly useful.  It's also only seven streets, since you shouldn't be counting the one you start out from.

    A more useful example in Bridgeport would be 31st Street between Halsted (800 West) and Racine (1200 West).  Streets encountered:  Lituanica, Morgan, Aberdeen, May, Racine.  At first glance, it appears to be five blocks within a half-mile, but Aberdeen–May–Racine is really the same distance as one "block", so it shouldn't really count as two.

    The way I look at the Madison–Roosevelt, Roosevelt–Cermak, and Cermak–31st anomalies is that the house numbering was simply altered to fit more numbers in.  In most neighborhoods, the basic grid pattern is still eight blocks per mile (with alterations varying by neighborhood), despite the house numbers.

    Most American cities in the west and the midwest were designed with the meridian and baseline system by surveyors.  This led to laying out the main streets mile by mile.

    Now, until relatively recently with the development of the metric system, it was much more prevalent to use the fractions of 1/2 , 1/4, and 1/8 as a way of denoting size and distance.  It was simply much easier to cut something in two, than to cut it into ten.  So it is not surprising that in many of the cities that were on the mile system, that blocks were laid out as 1/8 of a mile, instead of 1/10 of a mile.

    Many cities are designed with this as a "goal" even if not designed that way precisely.  As discussed, it is common that in one direction, the blocks were cut more often so that you could fit more houses in.

    With regard to Chicago, it is rare to have a perfect sq mile because of railroads, canals, industrial land, parks, schools, and other things that break the grid.  But I have found one that seems to be close:  59-Western(2400W)-Marquette (67th) - Kedzie (3200W).  Major streets are a mile apart and they are 800 address numbers apart.  There is one E-W cross street at every 1/8 of a mile, corresponding to the numbers between 59 and 67.  There are two N-S cross streets at every 1/8 of a mile.  Houses are oriented to fact the N-S cross street, for the most part, with the E-W cross street being used as a way to access the N-S cross streets.  Very few addresses front the E-W streets in this area.  A new block number begins at every other cross street (Western, Campbell, Rockwell, Washtenaw, California, Francsico, Sacramento, Albany, Kedzie).

    Now if you look slightly to the west, you will see that the houses are oriented the other way, facing the E-W streets.  A numbered street at every 1/8 of a mile, but a numbered place to mark half-blocks.  And the N-S cross streets are at one every 1/8 of a mile.

    So, yes, in general, one block to every 1/8 of a mile is a good generalization for most of Chicago.

    Also true, is that every big street at the mile points, and important connectors )(like Racine and California) at the 1/2 mile points.  And regionally important streets tend to be at every 3 mile point: State-Western-Cicero-Harlem.  And to emphasize the point even more, the major streets are divisbile by 800 (or 2400 for the regionally major) when going north of Madison or west of State.

    But oddly, this doesn't work on the southside.  Why is the 1 mile point at Chicago (800N), Halsted (800W), but Roosevelt (1200S).  And then when you get to the numbered streets the numbers are one shy of being divisble by 8 [or 7 shy depending on your perspective]: (31,39,47,55,63).  Why is that?  From what I beleive I read, was that when they first put in streets in the loop, they fit in 12 presidential streets between Madison and Roosevelt.  So they were already stuck to 1200S, where it would otherwise be 800S.  I guess the rest of the system just sort of slowly corrected itself.  So 0,  (+12) 1200, (+10) 2200, (+9) 3100, (+8) 3700.  The numbers are uneven here, but the streets are still very carefully spaced out to one major every mile.  A very good system.

    This system is also used in other cities.  I also grew up with the approximation of one long block per 1/8 of a mile and one short block of 1/16 of a mile in Los Angeles.  It is not as perfect as Chicago due to hills and other obstructions but it is a very good shorthand for distance and it does work.

    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: webny99 on March 11, 2019, 01:54:56 PM
    Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
    Maine (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8326/8140284334_f2b2a6508c_b.jpg), New Hampshire (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8149/7617502068_143cc59c1b_b.jpg), and New York (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8206/8161312371_0cfd033a3b_b.jpg) have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.
    It's a common thing in many states.

    I know this is an old post, but I just wanted to add that NY often posts shields only - with no arrow or directional banner.
    This (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1599968,-77.4311925,3a,15.6y,339.29h,86.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVX_33gVSsCwrGlMkev4vuA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DVX_33gVSsCwrGlMkev4vuA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D51.328968%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) (which may be what the OP was referring to) is also very common.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: epzik8 on March 11, 2019, 07:39:15 PM
    Some (unsigned) Maryland state routes are stubs that lead to MDOT facilities.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: bugo on March 14, 2019, 04:33:35 AM
    Here you go.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/5c031f38c9474dc0aca0035cc5e27a7f.jpg)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: sparker on March 14, 2019, 06:57:53 PM
    1/8 [of a mile] is one block

    where

    Los Angeles is way out in left field when it comes to block delineation.  From just south of downtown (actually, about Washington Blvd., which is nominally the 1900 block) all the way to the Wilmington area the grid pattern is 14-16 blocks to the mile N-S and 8 blocks to the mile E-W; each block is a 2:1 horizontal-bias rectangle.  The variance in N-S is due to fitting of streets into the various land grants that were annexed by Los Angeles in the first half of the 20th Century.  Occasionally, they'll add a "place" in addition to a "street" -- i.e. 152nd Street followed by 152nd Place when heading south on an arterial -- to "even things out".  An easy way to verify this is simply to travel south on I-110 from downtown; after crossing under MLK Jr. Blvd. (formerly Santa Barbara Ave., which was equivalent to 40th Street), there's an exit at 44th Street; from there the exits are a mile apart: Slauson (58th), Florence (72nd), Manchester (86th), Century (100th - no shit, Sherlock!), Imperial (114th), El Segundo (128th), Redondo Beach (143rd), Alondra (158th), and CA 91 (sitting atop old Artesia Blvd., aka 174th St.).  The next is actually 190th Street; after I-405 (just south of there) things get a little hinky regarding spacing.  Conversely, the other L.A. city area dominated by a grid pattern -- the San Fernando Valley, is a simple 8 x 8 (per mile) configuration -- at least on the flatlands; once in the foothills things depart from the norm rapidly.  But both the city and L.A. county consider "point zero" to be the corner of Main St. and 1st St. in downtown L.A. -- but minus one block; street numbering starts with 100/101 at that corner and proceeds outward from there. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kurumi on March 20, 2019, 02:01:57 AM
    Not sure how unique this is, but Connecticut does like to place median "bulbs" at rural 3-way intersections of 2-lane highways. Traffic ending at the "T" is split by a short but wide median -- like a very minimal channelization. Examples:

    * CT 85/94, Hebron: https://goo.gl/maps/wpQfL8A4SsQ2
    * US 6/CT 254/CT 109, Thomaston: https://goo.gl/maps/xE7LK4Yhcj62
    * CT 118/254, Litchfield: https://goo.gl/maps/C1ypvh2LqPK2
    * CT 4/179, Burlington: https://goo.gl/maps/6hjDHPh8es62

    There are more of these scattered throughout the state. At least one (CT 94 at SR 910, Glastonbury) is gone.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on March 20, 2019, 01:46:21 PM
    Not sure how unique this is, but Connecticut does like to place median "bulbs" at rural 3-way intersections of 2-lane highways. Traffic ending at the "T" is split by a short but wide median -- like a very minimal channelization. Examples:

    * CT 85/94, Hebron: https://goo.gl/maps/wpQfL8A4SsQ2
    * US 6/CT 254/CT 109, Thomaston: https://goo.gl/maps/xE7LK4Yhcj62
    * CT 118/254, Litchfield: https://goo.gl/maps/C1ypvh2LqPK2
    * CT 4/179, Burlington: https://goo.gl/maps/6hjDHPh8es62

    There are more of these scattered throughout the state. At least one (CT 94 at SR 910, Glastonbury) is gone.

    Probably just to give the snow plow driver a headache.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2019, 01:50:38 PM
    Not sure how unique this is, but Connecticut does like to place median "bulbs" at rural 3-way intersections of 2-lane highways. Traffic ending at the "T" is split by a short but wide median -- like a very minimal channelization. Examples:

    * CT 85/94, Hebron: https://goo.gl/maps/wpQfL8A4SsQ2
    * US 6/CT 254/CT 109, Thomaston: https://goo.gl/maps/xE7LK4Yhcj62
    * CT 118/254, Litchfield: https://goo.gl/maps/C1ypvh2LqPK2
    * CT 4/179, Burlington: https://goo.gl/maps/6hjDHPh8es62

    There are more of these scattered throughout the state. At least one (CT 94 at SR 910, Glastonbury) is gone.

    Probably just to give the snow plow driver a headache.

    You don't know how true that is.  Stupid curbs like this ( https://goo.gl/maps/fy6RqUqyZUQ2 ) can really give you a nice headache when they're hidden under 6 inches of snow!

    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on March 30, 2019, 04:21:07 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation, yet WISDOT just spent $1.7 BILLION (!!)  :-o on the Zoo Interchange, and at least that much again on the still happening I-41 conversion (stacks at I-43, WI-29, US-45, and soon US-10/WI-441). Not to mention the Marquette and Mitchell Interchanges, both recently. I'm not saying that WISDOT should completely abandon all those projects, but focusing on the state as a whole rather than just the busiest roads would be a much better approach.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2019, 07:35:29 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on March 30, 2019, 07:38:43 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    They're not terrible. Most of them are average, just a few stick out as being really bad.https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ftballfan on March 31, 2019, 02:36:02 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    They're not terrible. Most of them are average, just a few stick out as being really bad.https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    Ohio has some bad ones.
    OH-4 between the Turnpike and Sandusky: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3683169,-82.7459703,3a,60y,25.21h,82.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7DkvprA0ORjySK-efhycog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    US-250 between Ashland and Norwalk isn't much better: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0872437,-82.4755173,3a,60y,135.33h,74.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9LNL0CHAgfgENMdTtFF_6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    In addition, many of their county roads are barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other!
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on March 31, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    They're not terrible. Most of them are average, just a few stick out as being really bad.https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2014294,-90.238633,3a,60y,220.74h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9CXLN7j04nr4NN7e4DXiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3015599,-90.2007896,3a,60y,210.62h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYhcjAoDo_H55Htyg5wVkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3905243,-89.7686232,3a,60y,151.41h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvlEzxf6Vk7oxogpBZdvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
    Ohio has some bad ones.
    OH-4 between the Turnpike and Sandusky: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3683169,-82.7459703,3a,60y,25.21h,82.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7DkvprA0ORjySK-efhycog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    US-250 between Ashland and Norwalk isn't much better: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0872437,-82.4755173,3a,60y,135.33h,74.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9LNL0CHAgfgENMdTtFF_6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    In addition, many of their county roads are barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other!
    The examples you posted resemble your average Wisconsin state road. If those are the worst roads in Ohio, that's pretty good.
    Most of Wisconsin's county roads aren't bad, though. The newest heavily traveled ones look like state or even US highways.  :clap:

    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on March 31, 2019, 05:36:25 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation...

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    They're not terrible. Most of them are average, just a few stick out as being really bad.

     :confused:

    And this is a quirk how?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on March 31, 2019, 06:08:30 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation...

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.
    They're not terrible. Most of them are average, just a few stick out as being really bad.

     :confused:

    And this is a quirk how?
    yeah I can't really understand myself either  :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: StogieGuy7 on April 01, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.

    They aren't bad at all.  People who complain about the condition of Wisconsin's highways have either not spent much time elsewhere (start with Illinois, then go east), were haters of the previous governor or both.  Living in WI now, I can safely cruise down rural county highways at 60 mph with no drama whatsoever and our local US and state highways are in excellent condition. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on April 02, 2019, 05:33:40 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation

    My experience with Wisconsin's rural highways is severely limited, but I was unaware they were some of the worst in the nation.  Jumping around on GSV, they seem to be pretty average in my estimation.

    They aren't bad at all.  People who complain about the condition of Wisconsin's highways have either not spent much time elsewhere (start with Illinois, then go east), were haters of the previous governor or both.  Living in WI now, I can safely cruise down rural county highways at 60 mph with no drama whatsoever and our local US and state highways are in excellent condition.
    I don't know about "excellent".
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: JoePCool14 on April 02, 2019, 11:34:52 PM
    Wisconsin's rural highways are some of the worst in the nation, yet WISDOT just spent $1.7 BILLION (!!)  :-o on the Zoo Interchange, and at least that much again on the still happening I-41 conversion (stacks at I-43, WI-29, US-45, and soon US-10/WI-441). Not to mention the Marquette and Mitchell Interchanges, both recently. I'm not saying that WISDOT should completely abandon all those projects, but focusing on the state as a whole rather than just the busiest roads would be a much better approach.

    Might wanna check out the state south of you before making that claim... US-20 between Galena and Freeport is a prime example of poor rural state maintenance, on a major 2d US route at that.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Buck87 on April 03, 2019, 09:26:05 AM
    OH-4 between the Turnpike and Sandusky: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3683169,-82.7459703,3a,60y,25.21h,82.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7DkvprA0ORjySK-efhycog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    That just got repaved last year, from US 20 to Perkins Ave in Sandusky.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: StogieGuy7 on April 04, 2019, 04:02:45 PM
    I don't know about "excellent".

    Like most people, I'm not cruising every mile of the Wisconsin highway system on a frequent basis (though I have been from Pleasant Prairie to Superior and Prairie du Chien to Marinette so I do have some perspective.  From where I live in Kenosha County, WI Hwy 50 and US 45 were both recently redone and are concrete paved.  I-94 that I take to work in IL is 8 lanes of good-quality concrete.  The county roads are less consistent but still fine.  This seems to mirror what I've seen across the state (with some exceptions here and there).  The only thing I'd say that is not representative is that Kenosha County (at least west of 94) has very few roundabouts, which is just fine with me.

    On the other hand, Illinois roads are in really bad shape - basically anything maintained by IDOT is in need of work for lack of money. Michigan's roads are rougher than WI.  And roads in MN aren't are well maintained as WI from what I see.

    Frankly, I don't get all the griping and chalk it up to cheeseheads being overly parochial and not getting out enough.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: CardInLex on April 12, 2019, 08:31:37 PM
    Kentucky: Being a Cabinet and not a Department! Departments are divisions within the cabinet, example: Department of Highways, Department of Aviation, etc. Across the state government it goes Cabinet > Department > District/Division > Branch > Section > Crew.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Avalanchez71 on April 13, 2019, 01:29:55 AM
    Alabama has "Police Jurisdiction" signs--I am not sure it is unique in this regard, but any other states that use these signs are assuredly in the South.  When I first encountered them during a roadtrip, they made me nervous.  When I returned home, I did a little research and discovered city police forces in Alabama have extraterritorial jurisdiction that extends a short distance beyond the corporate limits of their respective municipalities, and the signs delineate where this ends.
    That is actually extra territorial denotation.  Alabama state law allows for a municipal police department to enforce the law two miles outside of the territorial limits of the municipality. 
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: hbelkins on April 13, 2019, 11:36:33 PM
    Kentucky: Being a Cabinet and not a Department! Departments are divisions within the cabinet, example: Department of Highways, Department of Aviation, etc. Across the state government it goes Cabinet > Department > District/Division/Office > Branch > Section > Crew Unit.

    FIFY. An "Office" is the organizational equivalent of a division, and a "district" is actually an office. "Office of Highway District 10" is the official title of my organizational unit, and it's led by an executive director -- but the common term is "chief district engineer."

    At one time, Kentucky used the term "bureau" as an organizational unit. I remember seeing equipment and vehicles labeled "Bureau of Highways." "Cabinet" came along in the late 70s or early 80s.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: formulanone on April 17, 2019, 07:31:24 AM
    Alabama has "Police Jurisdiction" signs--I am not sure it is unique in this regard, but any other states that use these signs are assuredly in the South.  When I first encountered them during a roadtrip, they made me nervous.  When I returned home, I did a little research and discovered city police forces in Alabama have extraterritorial jurisdiction that extends a short distance beyond the corporate limits of their respective municipalities, and the signs delineate where this ends.
    That is actually extra territorial denotation.  Alabama state law allows for a municipal police department to enforce the law two miles outside of the territorial limits of the municipality. 

    Despite the Police Jurisdiction warnings, I've rarely seen patrol cars hanging out near the signs. More of a "fair warning" sign, in my opinion. It's a bit of a warning that the speed limit is about to be reduced, so it's an additional upcoming notification.

    Usually you see these in rural areas, for cities/towns which do not have municipalities that border each other.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jbnv on April 18, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
    Louisiana: The only thing I can think of are the X-Y numberings of some state routes (most of which are local ways that should belong to the municipality).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Mergingtraffic on April 18, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
    CT DOT:

    Refusal to put in 2WLTL and would rather put in nothing or small/short car length left turn lanes.

    Different sign designs that don't flow from one project to another.

    Option lanes that are not well signed in advance.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ipeters61 on April 19, 2019, 12:41:28 PM
    CT DOT:

    Refusal to put in 2WLTL and would rather put in nothing or small/short car length left turn lanes.

    Different sign designs that don't flow from one project to another.

    Option lanes that are not well signed in advance.
    Oh come on!  There's the... there's um... hm... well Broad Street in Manchester (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Manchester,+CT/@41.7779516,-72.5344655,177m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e65762d22241dd:0xeb8afcc95fcc23b8!8m2!3d41.7759301!4d-72.5215009).

    Are there any others?  I feel like there's another one in the Manchester area.  EDIT - Aha...now I remember, Franklin Avenue in Hartford (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7352674,-72.675775,344m/data=!3m1!1e3).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: roadman on April 19, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
    Rotaries.

    "School SLOW Crossing" signs, and various other three word phrases.

    Driving in the breakdown lane being legal in some cases.
    I used to wonder why breakdown lane driving was not legal even after the highway expansion, but then I learned that it was very dangerous.
    Peak hour breakdown lane use in MA was first approved by FHWA as a temporary measure until the Randolph to Wellesley I-93/I-95 widening project (the 'Add-A-Lane') was completed.  It was then expanded to MA 3 south of Braintree and I-93 north of Wilmington later on.  Every five years since then, MassDPW/MassHighway/MassDOT is required to submit a report to FHWA to get approval to continue the program.  And yes, peak hour breakdown lane use has always been perceived as being very dangerous, largely due to a few high profile incidents over the years that involved disabled vehicles being struck by others using the lane for travel outside of the permitted hours.   However, the crash statistics, as reflected in the reports to FHWA, don't appear to bear that out.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: architect77 on April 20, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
    Georgia....can't be bothered to inspect sign support structures every few years, so no more cantilevered overhead signs. Instead they spend twice as much ($60K+) to support a single sign on both sides of America's widest freeways. Ridiculous!
    (https://live.staticflickr.com/1854/29647839997_d82d1dda5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8)IMG_0703 (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jeffandnicole on April 20, 2019, 02:08:31 PM
    Georgia....can't be bothered to inspect sign support structures every few years, so no more cantilevered overhead signs. Instead they spend twice as much ($60K+) to support a single sign on both sides of America's widest freeways. Ridiculous!
    (https://live.staticflickr.com/1854/29647839997_d82d1dda5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8)IMG_0703 (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

    No matter what type of structure they are, they're supposed to be inspected on a regular basis.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on April 20, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
    Has it been considered that other signs may be installed in the future?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Flint1979 on April 20, 2019, 08:07:54 PM
    M-46 on the east side of Saginaw.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@43.409974,-83.9493194,3a,75y,75.92h,88.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqOsMiFuSblMGkmmZuvfIZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: index on April 21, 2019, 04:04:32 AM
    If you have a keen eye you may have noticed something interesting with Washington State.


    A lot of the time they paint the colors of bridges to match the side of the state they're in/the surrounding landscape. A lot of the bridges west of the Cascades are painted this kind of pullman green color, while a lot of the bridges in the east are painted beige.


    Here's some examples.


    West of the Cascades:


    https://www.google.com/maps/@48.0163744,-122.1876911,3a,75y,16.31h,85.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sw2_U8bFDjFWO1GPcEvQsQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.0163744,-122.1876911,3a,75y,16.31h,85.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sw2_U8bFDjFWO1GPcEvQsQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@48.035843,-122.1813218,3a,75y,19.88h,87.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_foNPx6wFEJV-rU7BQsyoQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_foNPx6wFEJV-rU7BQsyoQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.93384%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.035843,-122.1813218,3a,75y,19.88h,87.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_foNPx6wFEJV-rU7BQsyoQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_foNPx6wFEJV-rU7BQsyoQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.93384%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2681846,-122.5511489,3a,75y,108.48h,93.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siztMB7KZxTIfusDMIhkXXQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DiztMB7KZxTIfusDMIhkXXQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D228.71039%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2681846,-122.5511489,3a,75y,108.48h,93.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siztMB7KZxTIfusDMIhkXXQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DiztMB7KZxTIfusDMIhkXXQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D228.71039%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4060726,-122.6457024,3a,49.2y,198.86h,89.68t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPxGVSBI-rwoUGcWS7PSmT4Ahq_rPJCyXjNuA7o!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPxGVSBI-rwoUGcWS7PSmT4Ahq_rPJCyXjNuA7o%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya258.45694-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4864 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4060726,-122.6457024,3a,49.2y,198.86h,89.68t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPxGVSBI-rwoUGcWS7PSmT4Ahq_rPJCyXjNuA7o!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPxGVSBI-rwoUGcWS7PSmT4Ahq_rPJCyXjNuA7o%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya258.45694-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4864)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9771535,-123.8111954,3a,60y,259.15h,104.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0_Fi2FqXbkLPg4Tz7yke1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9771535,-123.8111954,3a,60y,259.15h,104.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0_Fi2FqXbkLPg4Tz7yke1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9616501,-123.6034946,3a,41.2y,346.73h,95.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snKk0xMNRvPEDFWoDLNYPEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9616501,-123.6034946,3a,41.2y,346.73h,95.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snKk0xMNRvPEDFWoDLNYPEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    Notice how all of these are the same color.  If it doesn't then you can kind of tell its original color from before it rusted or faded.


    Now east of the Cascades:


    https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9432196,-119.9686915,3a,29.9y,75.15h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEYW-LjORrj9Aj9eAK3haeA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9432196,-119.9686915,3a,29.9y,75.15h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEYW-LjORrj9Aj9eAK3haeA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5885303,-118.2192948,3a,75y,258.49h,89.4t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPG8yDFLwUcFXu-ikNSW9omIpZUTGwHejhMaM8!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPG8yDFLwUcFXu-ikNSW9omIpZUTGwHejhMaM8%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi2.677507-ya254.6524-ro1.5844649-fo100!7i7200!8i3600 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5885303,-118.2192948,3a,75y,258.49h,89.4t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPG8yDFLwUcFXu-ikNSW9omIpZUTGwHejhMaM8!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPG8yDFLwUcFXu-ikNSW9omIpZUTGwHejhMaM8%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi2.677507-ya254.6524-ro1.5844649-fo100!7i7200!8i3600)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6097497,-121.1387033,3a,34.3y,325.33h,91.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGAyK9pb7WQN4Lg19_oVgPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6097497,-121.1387033,3a,34.3y,325.33h,91.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGAyK9pb7WQN4Lg19_oVgPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9313389,-119.3282077,3a,60y,310.95h,88.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snbwVDdH70GdspMvZSgeSBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9313389,-119.3282077,3a,60y,310.95h,88.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snbwVDdH70GdspMvZSgeSBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@47.8132108,-119.9721381,3a,75y,356.46h,93.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGOMTfpHlYObBvAC0iumBGw!2e0!5s20081001T000000!7i3328!8i1664 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.8132108,-119.9721381,3a,75y,356.46h,93.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGOMTfpHlYObBvAC0iumBGw!2e0!5s20081001T000000!7i3328!8i1664) (This one's brown but nonetheless the idea is still there)


    https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9654259,-118.9820301,3a,60y,277.79h,90.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk8I3J8km_NJys9Zb8vlryw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9654259,-118.9820301,3a,60y,277.79h,90.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk8I3J8km_NJys9Zb8vlryw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


    I always thought this was a pretty interesting thing, and it feels like there's a bit too many examples of this to be a coincidence.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: mgk920 on April 21, 2019, 10:49:11 AM
    MN:
    “Bypass Lanes” to allow traffic on two-lane roads to pass cars waiting to turn left.

    WisDOT uses them all over, too.

    Michigan also posts passing warnings on rural trunklines where there is a passing lane in the opposing direction.
    snipped image

    I'm forgetting what the exact wording used is, but a sign to that effect is commonly used in Utah. I wish more places had that.

    A bit more wordy, but Utah uses PASSING PROHIBITED WHEN OPPOSING TRAFFIC IN EITHER ONCOMING LANE (https://goo.gl/maps/vcSQzZE4nwQ2).

    I don’t think MN allows the single lane to pass anytime in a passing zone, so I’m always curious when I see places that do.

    Wisconsin does.  WisDOT signs the single-lane side as they would any other passing/no passing zone.

    I've seen Appleton and Milwaukee in Wisconsin use decimals on their mileposts of their urban freeways. Appleton has signs in the median of the roadway on I-41 that post mile markers every 2/10ths of a mile, and Milwaukee does this for every 1/10th of a mile on I-43 and I-94 downtown. It has a blue sign that shows you the highway you're on, the mile number, and the fraction below it. Here's an example in Milwaukee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0357549,-87.9349022,3a,15y,236.66h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuLjZI4ut9vFFPv-BJgR6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Does any other state do this?
    InDOT does on Urban/Suburban Interstate segments, like I-80/94 in NW Indiana, I-65, 69, 70, 74, 465, 865 in/around Indy, I-64, 65, 265 across the Ohio from Louisville, I-69 in Evansville...they kinda do it on new I-69 in Bloomington, but it is inconsistent there

    Ok so I guess it's not a weird quirk. I was just going off the fractions of a mile thing Zeffy posted. But those are two different things...

    That's a WisDOT/MUTCD thing, relatively little of I-41 is actually in Appleton's city limits (a *POX!* on the state's municipal boundary law!).  My sense is that all of those median blue marker signs statewide are done in decimal, usually every second 'tenth'.

    One thing I've noticed is that for reasons I can't really comprehend, the city of Philadelphia has a weird obsession with expressing distances in 10ths on their freeway signs. Wouldn't be as bad if they also reduced the fractions when they could, but then we wouldn't have the 10ths I suppose.  :pan:
    I think the average person would have trouble comprehending 2/5 as opposed to 4/10.

    At least 10ths are shown on an odometer.

    Not as regularly as they used to be. My previous vehicle dropped the tenths as soon as I rolled over 100K. My current vehicle has never displayed tenths of a mile.

    Mine also does not show a decimal beyond even miles, same with its two 'trip' odometers.

    IMHO, fractions have been trending out general public usage in the USA for many years now, anyways, such that if I had my way, I'd stop torturing grade school kids with having to learn them.  IIRC, they are not encountered by European students until first term algebra.  That would cut over a year off of the time that it takes to teach them basic math/arithmetic, as well as reduce the related frustrations.

    Mike
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: 1995hoo on April 21, 2019, 02:30:51 PM
    None of our cars show tenths on the main odometer (three digital odometers, one traditional mechanical one). They all show tenths on the trip odometer(s) (the three with digital odometers all have trip meter "A" and "B"—I use "A" to track each tank of gas and "B" when we travel somewhere to track the total distance there and back again).

    BTW, the loss of traditional mechanical odometers is a shame because it was much cooler seeing all the digits roll over at milestone distances. The only car I've ever had whose odometer maxed out at 99,999 was the '77 Ford Granada I had in high school (and it didn't have a trip odometer), but I never saw it roll back to all zeros because it didn't hit that point during the two years I owned it. My brother saw his '74 Beetle roll to all zeros when it hit 200,000 miles.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: J N Winkler on April 21, 2019, 02:56:16 PM
    I have wondered if mechanical odometers were phased out in order to allow mileage to be counted using the vehicle speed sensor (attached to the output shaft of the transmission) rather than a mechanical counter.  I never actually had the odometer fail in either the 1978 Chevy Impala or the 1986 Nissan Maxima, which presumably used metal parts, but by 1990 the automakers were starting to use plastic odometer gears and many of these proved unable to stand up chemically to the lubricants used.  The odometer in my 1994 Saturn SL2 has been frozen at 127,000 and change for six years.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Big John on April 21, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
    I thought the change to electronic odometers was to deter odometer tampering.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on April 21, 2019, 08:51:13 PM
    I thought the change to electronic odometers was to deter odometer tampering.

    ^This, plus it removes a bunch of mechanical components with a sensor that can potentially be used by many other systems in the vehicle. Also should be much easier to re-calibrate if you change tire sizes on the vehicle.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: roadman on April 22, 2019, 10:16:09 AM
    Georgia....can't be bothered to inspect sign support structures every few years, so no more cantilevered overhead signs. Instead they spend twice as much ($60K+) to support a single sign on both sides of America's widest freeways. Ridiculous!
    (https://live.staticflickr.com/1854/29647839997_d82d1dda5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8)IMG_0703 (https://flic.kr/p/MaSVV8) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

    It's likely that physical constraints preclude installing the deeper cored shaft foundation in the median side that would be required for a cantilever support.  The other alternative, a spread footing foundation, is impractical due to the close proximity of the retaining wall for the ramp.  And, as another poster mentioned, they could be adding signs on the right side in the future.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Big John on April 22, 2019, 01:22:59 PM
    A cantilever gantry failed a decade or so ago, and GDOT made a policy of no more cantilever supports.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2019, 02:37:04 PM
    I use "A" to track each tank of gas and "B" when we travel somewhere to track the total distance there and back again

    This is exactly what I do too.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: roadman on April 22, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
    A cantilever gantry failed a decade or so ago, and GDOT made a policy of no more cantilever supports.

    To satisfy my curiosity, I did some digging into this.  The GDOT policy change regarding cantilever sign supports occurred in 1995, as noted in the NTSB report on the March 2007 bus exit ramp crash on I-75 in Atlanta.  The change resulted from anchor bolt failures at some locations.  The HOV lane sign revisions at Northside Drive resulting from this policy change are cited as a likely contributing factor in the 2007 crash.  Full report on this crash is at https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HAR0801.pdfhttps://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HAR0801.pdf
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Gnutella on April 23, 2019, 05:17:51 AM
    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the PennDOT colored detours (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2454513,-80.2030132,3a,75y,67.05h,80.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk2IwrFrgd3uwMtMf71Ivgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 23, 2019, 08:26:46 AM
    I had to follow that Red detour to the next exit down I-79 :sombrero:. It is signed as Orange detour in the other direction, and I've found a Blue and a Black detours too.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Verlanka on April 23, 2019, 09:48:46 AM
    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the PennDOT colored detours (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2454513,-80.2030132,3a,75y,67.05h,80.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk2IwrFrgd3uwMtMf71Ivgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

    I've seen them plenty of times.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: froggie on April 23, 2019, 10:11:36 AM
    I use "A" to track each tank of gas and "B" when we travel somewhere to track the total distance there and back again

    This is exactly what I do too.

    Ditto.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jemacedo9 on April 23, 2019, 10:48:33 AM
    I use "A" to track each tank of gas and "B" when we travel somewhere to track the total distance there and back again

    This is exactly what I do too.

    Ditto.


    I use "A" to track each tank of gas and "B" to track each oil change, instead of using the sticker that sometimes falls off.  If I am interested in tracking a long trip, I will use "A" for that and skip tracking tanks of gas.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2019, 04:44:25 PM
    I think the way VW has their trip setup is quite useful. There is only a single trip counter on the dash, but there are three more that are built into the computer:

    * data since refuel
    * data since start
    * data over long-term ("extended" or something)

    All three have separate MPG, distance, travel time, and average speed statistics. The first two reset automatically, and the last manually. The last one is quite helpful for driving trips. You can track all of the aforementioned data, without worrying about losing data during refuel or overnight stops (as you would with the first two). Of course, all of this can be done manually, but its cool to have all three working simultaneously. And in my experience, the electronic MPG data has been very close to reality, so I don't have an issue with relying on the car for this information.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: SSOWorld on April 23, 2019, 06:30:10 PM
    this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0456235,-89.2765878,3a,75y,121.16h,81.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUHEci7m7-dVAcxaHfXY55w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) and  this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0298225,-89.0814028,3a,75y,349.77h,86.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skcS1py6SJBexvOSGkMqHmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) (WisDOT)
    this (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3711708,-88.8517976,3a,75y,303.01h,79.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNZv7XrPaXZXAMg7WDA7NIw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) (IDOT)
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    Alternate Interstate? and to think that Travel Mapping kinda fell for that at one point - these "alternate" routes are actually designated feeder/evacuation for detours set up to go around crashes.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MNHighwayMan on April 23, 2019, 07:11:34 PM
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    These are starting to go away now, being replaced by signs like this (https://i.imgur.com/CWDxJn1.jpg). There was a ruling from the FHWA in April 2017 which approved these "alternate route to" signs and disallowed many of the alternate/emergency detour signage that various states had been using. So far, I've only seen examples of these signs from Iowa and Minnesota, though.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: SSOWorld on April 23, 2019, 10:02:26 PM
    good luck getting WI to do it - they won't abandon the unisign format.

    in hindsight - the MUTCD one makes more sense (though the warning color doesn't)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Flint1979 on April 23, 2019, 10:22:11 PM
    this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0456235,-89.2765878,3a,75y,121.16h,81.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUHEci7m7-dVAcxaHfXY55w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) and  this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0298225,-89.0814028,3a,75y,349.77h,86.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skcS1py6SJBexvOSGkMqHmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) (WisDOT)
    this (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3711708,-88.8517976,3a,75y,303.01h,79.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNZv7XrPaXZXAMg7WDA7NIw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) (IDOT)
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    Alternate Interstate? and to think that Travel Mapping kinda fell for that at one point - these "alternate" routes are actually designated feeder/evacuation for detours set up to go around crashes.
    MDOT can't be left out Michigan does it too.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1959606,-86.2234477,3a,15y,308.84h,91.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVdgN1kxie_UCU_U9B7GMaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: MNHighwayMan on April 23, 2019, 10:22:55 PM
    in hindsight - the MUTCD one makes more sense (though the warning color doesn't)

    I agree about the color. White on green or black on white would make more sense for that message.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: froggie on April 24, 2019, 10:01:43 AM
    Alternate Interstate? and to think that Travel Mapping kinda fell for that at one point - these "alternate" routes are actually designated feeder/evacuation for detours set up to go around crashes.

    Not all of Travel Mapping "fell for that"...😌
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: djsekani on May 03, 2019, 08:39:04 AM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: roadman on May 03, 2019, 10:58:01 AM
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    These are starting to go away now, being replaced by signs like this (https://i.imgur.com/CWDxJn1.jpg). There was a ruling from the FHWA in April 2017 which approved these "alternate route to" signs and disallowed many of the alternate/emergency detour signage that various states had been using. So far, I've only seen examples of these signs from Iowa and Minnesota, though.

    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/pdf/6_09_42.pdf
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on May 03, 2019, 11:10:59 AM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?

    I've seen them used in Washington and British Columbia. Bellevue, WA uses them exclusively, as does Pierce County (WA).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: US 89 on May 03, 2019, 11:30:39 AM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?

    I've seen them used in Washington and British Columbia. Bellevue, WA uses them exclusively, as does Pierce County (WA).

    Curved mast arms are also the norm in Utah and Arizona. They're also extremely common in the Boise area, but I don't think I've seen them in other parts of Idaho.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: plain on May 03, 2019, 12:34:37 PM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?

    I've seen them used in Washington and British Columbia. Bellevue, WA uses them exclusively, as does Pierce County (WA).

    Curved mast arms are also the norm in Utah and Arizona. They're also extremely common in the Boise area, but I don't think I've seen them in other parts of Idaho.

    Also in several localities in Virginia, especially in Richmond, Arlington County, and downtown Suffolk.

    EDIT: Note that most of these are maintained by the localities themselves, not VDOT.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: PurdueBill on May 05, 2019, 12:20:53 PM
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    These are starting to go away now, being replaced by signs like this (https://i.imgur.com/CWDxJn1.jpg). There was a ruling from the FHWA in April 2017 which approved these "alternate route to" signs and disallowed many of the alternate/emergency detour signage that various states had been using. So far, I've only seen examples of these signs from Iowa and Minnesota, though.

    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/pdf/6_09_42.pdf

    I wonder what the reasoning is for white on blue not being listed as an acceptable color for EMERGENCY DETOUR plaques.  The green plaque atop blue shields and plaques doesn't seem to make sense.  An assembly of ALT NORTH I-65 {arrow} in all blue is OK, and on a single sign, all that would be on a green background.  So why is EMERGENCY DETOUR different?  Weird.

    Indiana posted these in 2017, albeit onto the front of the other sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4441425,-86.8672451,3a,20.1y,288.82h,88.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ3bb2Np4-q_ipshlVMCzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), which look fine (except for being mounted onto the other sign; the emergency closure of a nearby bridge caused the signs to be needed at the time they were erected so they just posted them in the easiest way).
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: Revive 755 on May 05, 2019, 12:34:01 PM
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    These are starting to go away now, being replaced by signs like this (https://i.imgur.com/CWDxJn1.jpg). There was a ruling from the FHWA in April 2017 which approved these "alternate route to" signs and disallowed many of the alternate/emergency detour signage that various states had been using. So far, I've only seen examples of these signs from Iowa and Minnesota, though.

    Illinois has a few of the new ones making an appearance for I-39, and there was a contract not to long ago to add some for I-55 and I-72 around Springfield.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ErmineNotyours on May 05, 2019, 04:33:59 PM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?

    I've seen them used in Washington and British Columbia. Bellevue, WA uses them exclusively, as does Pierce County (WA).

    Found this in Victoria, BC a few years ago: the distinctive curved BC mast.  That was one of the giveaways in the American version of Insomnia, that it was filmed in BC and not Alaska.  Strangely, they had that light flashing yellow.  I've never seen an idle light flash yellow in BC, but I usually see idle crosswalk signals flash green.

    (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46993456714_30367633d6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eADKsj)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on May 05, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
    No one's mentioned California's unique curved traffic signal masts yet?

    I've seen them used in Washington and British Columbia. Bellevue, WA uses them exclusively, as does Pierce County (WA).

    Found this in Victoria, BC a few years ago: the distinctive curved BC mast.  That was one of the giveaways in the American version of Insomnia, that it was filmed in BC and not Alaska.  Strangely, they had that light flashing yellow.  I've never seen an idle light flash yellow in BC, but I usually see idle crosswalk signals flash green.

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46993456714_30367633d6_c.jpg

    Nice find! I've seen flashing yellow lights (both flashing orbs and RRFB's) but none that flash while in idle mode...only when activated by a pedestrian. The vast majority are indeed the infamous flashing green orb setup.

    Curved mast arms are still installed, but (from what I've seen) mostly as part of double left turn signals, installed in the centre median. That said, I can think of at least one new one at a four-way intersection: Esquimalt & Harbour (http://bit.ly/2DToqpH) just across from Downtown Victoria.

    Here's the California-esque curved mast arms that I was originally thinking of, which are still relatively common in Vancouver-proper:

    (https://i.imgur.com/CNe3Pwa.png)
    ^^ Link to this street view image: http://bit.ly/2J1YP20
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: ErmineNotyours on May 06, 2019, 01:14:22 AM

    Curved mast arms are still installed, but (from what I've seen) mostly as part of double left turn signals, installed in the centre median. That said, I can think of at least one new one at a four-way intersection: Esquimalt & Harbour (http://bit.ly/2DToqpH) just across from Downtown Victoria.


    Ha!  That intersection is just a half block from where I took my picture. (https://goo.gl/maps/z8SUkNc6WzrbvUdE6)  And they still have stock left.  No wonder they installed curved arms there.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: SSOWorld on May 06, 2019, 08:55:46 AM
    and this (https://www.news.iowadot.gov/.a/6a00e552358ec4883401b8d285c0ca970c-popup) (IowaDOT)

    These are starting to go away now, being replaced by signs like this (https://i.imgur.com/CWDxJn1.jpg). There was a ruling from the FHWA in April 2017 which approved these "alternate route to" signs and disallowed many of the alternate/emergency detour signage that various states had been using. So far, I've only seen examples of these signs from Iowa and Minnesota, though.

    https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/pdf/6_09_42.pdf

    I wonder what the reasoning is for white on blue not being listed as an acceptable color for EMERGENCY DETOUR plaques.  The green plaque atop blue shields and plaques doesn't seem to make sense.  An assembly of ALT NORTH I-65 {arrow} in all blue is OK, and on a single sign, all that would be on a green background.  So why is EMERGENCY DETOUR different?  Weird.

    Indiana posted these in 2017, albeit onto the front of the other sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4441425,-86.8672451,3a,20.1y,288.82h,88.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ3bb2Np4-q_ipshlVMCzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), which look fine (except for being mounted onto the other sign; the emergency closure of a nearby bridge caused the signs to be needed at the time they were erected so they just posted them in the easiest way).
    Uniformity across all regions. Though considering that said uniformity is out the window in states such as California which insists on signs being uniform height on the overheads and will scrunch the contents to maintain it.  Also states such as WI and RI (at one point) that like(d) the unisign format (even for Interstate shields), or just plain suck at it like Illinois (leaving it to the districts to do the work - resulting in different designs.  Plus - uniformity goes against everything USA (competition rules the day)
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: thspfc on May 06, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
    Do all states actively sign "Alternate" routes for Interstates? Wisconsin does so thoroughly that it's almost annoying.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: DaBigE on May 06, 2019, 10:37:31 PM
    Do all states actively sign "Alternate" routes for Interstates? Wisconsin does so thoroughly that it's almost annoying.

    How about any other states with electronic alternate route signage, like the Blue Route (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/ask/just-ask-us/just-ask-us-what-do-blue-route-signs-on-highway/article_2aa6c4a4-8f17-11e1-8f69-001a4bcf887a.html) around Madison? Despite the WSP Trooper quoted, I don't think I've ever heard of it being activated in the 17 years I've been in the Madison area.
    Title: Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
    Post by: jakeroot on May 06, 2019, 11:09:54 PM
    Do all states actively sign "Alternate" routes for Interstates? Wisconsin does so thoroughly that it's almost annoying.

    I only seen "ALT" signs in WA when there are ramp closures related to construction. I've never seen one in BC, where the rule of thumb seems to be that drivers need to find their own way, to avoid clogging up one specific route unable to cope with all the detoured freeway traffic.