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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: webny99 on October 30, 2019, 08:43:50 PM

Title: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on October 30, 2019, 08:43:50 PM
Is DST still a forbidden topic? We're about to find out!

There are countless reasons why the US should be on standard time right now (October 30th) instead of DST.
This week, in particular, is just too much:

(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).
(2) Mornings are now too dark! It's ridiculous that the latest sunrise of the year is this Saturday, instead of being near the winter solstice.
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.
(4) Just 5 months are entirely or partially on DST. Going back to an October end date would make that 6 months (more even).
(5) The start date and end date of DST are out of sync, relative to the equinoxes (and thus, our natural clocks). The first weekend of November strings it out just too long, as evidenced by the extremely dark mornings making it borderline impossible to wake up this week!

Thus, the end date of DST should be moved back at least one week, to allow the US population a smoother and healthier transition into the shortest solar days of the year!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 30, 2019, 08:59:52 PM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).

This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 30, 2019, 09:09:29 PM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).

This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.

If you have to go hunt for candy during the day youíre doing it wrong.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 30, 2019, 09:12:42 PM
If you have to go hunt for candy during the day youíre doing it wrong.

No, what's wrong is the growing popularity of trunk-or-treat, where you don't have to hunt for candy at all.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 30, 2019, 09:15:03 PM
If you have to go hunt for candy during the day youíre doing it wrong.

No, what's wrong is the growing popularity of trunk-or-treat, where you don't have to hunt for candy at all.

Yes, I was witness to that the other day at a social function for my nieces.  At least it wasnít on the actual Halloween and was done at 6:30 PM a solid 28 minutes after sundown.  Weíre doing it right here tomorrow, getting started at 6:30 PM and walking.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: SSOWorld on October 30, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3du6q4.jpg)
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: SSOWorld on October 30, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3du6q4.jpg)

Keep it civil, or the thread will be locked!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: vdeane on October 30, 2019, 10:13:00 PM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).
(2) Mornings are now too dark! It's ridiculous that the latest sunrise of the year is this Saturday, instead of being near the winter solstice.
I agree, though the idea of trick or treating during the day seems to be becoming more and more mainstream.  I've even seen proposals to move Halloween to be on a Saturday every year.

Re: mornings, I'm the same way, but it seems that most people either have no issue waking up on dark mornings, or haven't fully considered how an hour extra light in the evening is an hour less light in the morning.

Quote
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.
(4) Just 5 months are entirely or partially on DST. Going back to an October end date would make that 6 months (more even).
Actually, the world is pretty inconsistent.  The EU might be abolishing the time change soon - the European Parliament already approved it, and now it's moving through the member states.  This might be their last "fall back".  Mexico's DST schedule is different from both us and the EU.  Same for many countries in the Southern Hemisphere especially.  And yes, it's silly how "standard" time is actually the minority now.  Not a problem in Europe, where it's "[time zone] Time" (sometimes referred to as "[time zone] Winter Time") and "[time zone] Summer Time" instead of "[time zone] Standard Time" and "[time zone] Daylight Time".
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: ozarkman417 on October 30, 2019, 10:29:55 PM

(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.

So... Kill the twelve hour clock while were at it?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: MNHighwayMan on October 30, 2019, 10:44:48 PM
Where's that lock ahead sign when you need it?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: US 89 on October 30, 2019, 10:48:55 PM
Where's that lock ahead sign when you need it?

Right here.

(http://i.imgur.com/SYToBto.png)
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 31, 2019, 04:33:26 AM
In before lock.

Here in Europe DST ended last Sunday, thus causing a misalignment between time zones. Nominally there is a 6 hour difference between Eastern time and Central Europe time, but right now the forum as I have setup it shows me a time one hour ahead my actual time, and substracting 6 hours from my time lands me in Central (USA) time instead of the intended Eastern. It's worse in March, as this happens for longer.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: GaryV on October 31, 2019, 07:12:09 AM
One year after Chrysler was taken over by MB (oh, sorry, "Merger of Equals"), all our meeting times changed by an hour because of the difference in dates when Daylight Saving Time changed.

Because my staff meeting time depends on what time it is in Stuttgart.  Right.

That said, I schedule soccer games for my local rec league.  We'd never get any evening games in if not for DST.

But I do hate coming to work when it's so dark.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 31, 2019, 07:33:54 AM
The Philly area is predicting rain for tonight. There's been nonstop arguments on local Facebook groups about whether to keep trick or treating on Oct 31 and have kids walk in the rain (like how we all did growing up) or move Halloween to Friday or Saturday night. Basically, this is a town-by-town decision.

One of the more humorous arguments I have read is that Halloween should always be Saturday night so there's no school the next day. And when someone asks what if it rains...welll, just move it to Sunday night. The oblivious parent who doesn't want kids trick or treating on a school night doesn't get that they are literally suggesting to move it back to a school night!!

As for trunk or treats, I've never known them to be on Halloween itself. I also thought they were organized in such a way where everyone should know each other, or at least be associated with each other. One news story this year in South Jersey was that one parent found a bag of heroin in their kid's candy bag (it wasn't hidden in candy...it was a clear plastic bag of herion). Many are suspicious of such finding...and are thinking this was intentionally planted to give someone their 15 minutes of fame.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: cabiness42 on October 31, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
Saturday in South Bend, sunrise is 8:16 and sunset is 6:39.  To me, that is a ridiculous distortion of the clock.  One of the reasons I moved to where I live now is that NWI is on Central instead of Eastern.  The rest of the state either needs to drop DST or move to Central.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: roadman on October 31, 2019, 10:38:26 AM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).

This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.
Having trick or treat after it gets dark is kind of the point of Halloween in the first place.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: MNHighwayMan on October 31, 2019, 11:25:02 AM
Where's that lock ahead sign when you need it?
Right here.

Thanks. I couldn't remember who made it or what thread(s) it was posted in, and I was too lazy to search.

(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).
This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.
Having trick or treat after it gets dark is kind of the point of Halloween in the first place.

BuT tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN! We can't let our unfounded paranoia of creeps and drugged candy to allow kids to actually have fun!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2019, 02:40:51 PM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).
This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.

I mean, that is a potential line of reasoning, but it doesn't change the fundemental: Light itself is contrary to what Halloween represents.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2019, 02:44:23 PM
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.
So... Kill the twelve hour clock while were at it?

No, but we should at least keep the start and end dates consistent with them.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1995hoo on October 31, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
Iím really looking forward to the extra hour of sleep. Didnít get much the past two nights due to the World Series. Totally worth it.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Bruce on October 31, 2019, 03:35:33 PM
For the first time in my life, I will be in an airplane during the time change (probably flying over the Mountain Time Zone). Should have a much smaller effect on my body.

That said, the time change is outdated and needs to be replaced with year-round Daylight Time. The West Coast is making a bit of progress on getting this through state legislatures, but it still has to be approved by the federal government...
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: cabiness42 on October 31, 2019, 03:49:32 PM
For the first time in my life, I will be in an airplane during the time change (probably flying over the Mountain Time Zone). Should have a much smaller effect on my body.

That said, the time change is outdated and needs to be replaced with year-round Daylight Time. The West Coast is making a bit of progress on getting this through state legislatures, but it still has to be approved by the federal government...

I get that sunsets before 5pm are no fun, but I'm not in favor of pushing sunrise past 8am to compensate.  Year round DST is a big no from me.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1 on October 31, 2019, 04:01:10 PM
Whatever happens, I do not want a different rule for every state, and I do not want any 2-hour jumps from crossing state lines or other borders, nor do I want half-hour offsets.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on October 31, 2019, 04:36:03 PM
(1) Halloween should unquestionably be on standard time (darker in the evenings).
This is very much in question. In fact, it's pretty much the reason why the end of daylight saving time was pushed back a week to the first Sunday in November to begin with: More light for the children trick-or-treating.
Having trick or treat after it gets dark is kind of the point of Halloween in the first place.

BuT tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN! We can't let our unfounded paranoia of creeps and drugged candy to allow kids to actually have fun!

Nobody likes your children enough to give them free drugs. That shit's expensive.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jp the roadgeek on October 31, 2019, 06:10:59 PM
For the first time in my life, I will be in an airplane during the time change (probably flying over the Mountain Time Zone). Should have a much smaller effect on my body.

That said, the time change is outdated and needs to be replaced with year-round Daylight Time. The West Coast is making a bit of progress on getting this through state legislatures, but it still has to be approved by the federal government...

I get that sunsets before 5pm are no fun, but I'm not in favor of pushing sunrise past 8am to compensate.  Year round DST is a big no from me.

It's a little different in Indiana than it is for me in CT.  Today in CT, the sun set at 5:46, and will set at 6:43 in Indy.  Sunday, it will set around 4:40 here and about 5:35 there.  That's why if we get rid of the time changes, Indiana should remain on EST year round, and CT should stay on AST (same as EDT) year round.  I was in Indy a few years ago, and found it wild that the sun was still up after 9:00 in July and I still saw some light in the sky after 10:00.  In CT, it would be twilight already at 9:00.  Granted it would push the summer sunsets in Indiana back to around 8:30, but it would be more in line.   
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: KEVIN_224 on October 31, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!

I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop. On one of those nights, a preseason NFL game was airing from Nashville. I looked at the TV screen. I looked out of the room's window. The amount of waning sunlight and then dusk was EXACTLY THE SAME! It turns out that they're nearly the same distance west for longitude.

Here by Hartford on June 21st, the day is roughly from 5:15 AM to 8:30 PM (15h 15m).
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Bruce on October 31, 2019, 07:34:12 PM
For the first time in my life, I will be in an airplane during the time change (probably flying over the Mountain Time Zone). Should have a much smaller effect on my body.

That said, the time change is outdated and needs to be replaced with year-round Daylight Time. The West Coast is making a bit of progress on getting this through state legislatures, but it still has to be approved by the federal government...

I get that sunsets before 5pm are no fun, but I'm not in favor of pushing sunrise past 8am to compensate.  Year round DST is a big no from me.

Most people don't use that extra sunlight in the morning for anything but commuting, but pushing sunsets further into the evening allows for recreation and avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face. There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on October 31, 2019, 08:15:48 PM
Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!

I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop.
How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: vdeane on October 31, 2019, 08:18:09 PM
Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!
Standard time is what we're on in winter.  Summer sunset times would be unaffected by that proposal.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: ilpt4u on October 31, 2019, 08:27:40 PM
I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop. On one of those nights, a preseason NFL game was airing from Nashville. I looked at the TV screen. I looked out of the room's window. The amount of waning sunlight and then dusk was EXACTLY THE SAME! It turns out that they're nearly the same distance west for longitude.
I think (most of) Indiana worked well on Year Round Eastern Standard Time, which is de facto Central Daylight Time during DST months. That system was abolished in 2006 and the whole state now observes DST

There are a few counties in NW and SW Indiana that are on Central Time Year Round

Reading more of the history of Indiana and Time Zones, the state has apparently gone from Central Time to Eastern Time in various stages
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tdindy88 on October 31, 2019, 09:38:03 PM
Don't forget that all of the lower peninsula of Michigan and the eastern half of Kentucky are also in Eastern time, which aligns a little better with Indiana's longitude. It would be a nonstarter today to draw the timezone boundary across the center of the state with the state's largest metro area right in the center. So your options are either drawing along the Illinois line or the Ohio line.

Year round EST was better in hindsight but I think the state was tired of being the butt of "what time is it" jokes and wanted to move along with the rest of the country. Of course it was weird when I was told to turn the clock back when crossing from Ohio back into Indiana when the map in the atlas clearly showed the time zone boundary on the other side of the state.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2019, 09:57:56 PM
Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!
Standard time is what we're on in winter.  Summer sunset times would be unaffected by that proposal.

He said sunrise.. but yes, correct that neither sunrise nor set would be affected in the summer months. It would essentially be year-round DST, or shifting one time zone east and having no DST, however you look at it.

Regarding Indiana (which seems to get the bulk of the attention despite much of Michigan having an exacerbated version of the same problem), I think they should be on CST. It is just too dark in the mornings right now even here; all the more so further west. Sunrises after 8 AM should be avoided; I know this may not be practical at certain latitudes, but it is certainly reasonable for all of the lower 48 states. Maybe parts of Montana and North Dakota could be exceptions to that rule, but certainly not places as far south as Indiana or Michigan's Lower Peninsula.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: thspfc on October 31, 2019, 10:13:12 PM
I would have no problem with daylight time going year round. I would like to have the sun around until 6:00 (or near then) all winter, and I really don't care when it rises because I'm inside all morning anyways.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Rothman on October 31, 2019, 10:40:49 PM
Anything to get rid of the switch back to darkness in the morning we now get in the Northeast when we spring forward.  Why there isn't a mass mutiny is beyond me.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: US 89 on October 31, 2019, 10:46:25 PM
The only thing that needs to change about DST is that it should begin a month later and end a week or two earlier.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on October 31, 2019, 11:34:52 PM
I would have no problem with daylight time going year round. I would like to have the sun around until 6:00 (or near then) all winter, and I really don't care when it rises because I'm inside all morning anyways.
Would be good for the grown adults, but would be a nightmare for the kids. We already have elementary schoolers waiting for the bus in darkness at 7am.

In my words, leave it the way it is. I can get away with dark evenings. Earliest sunset here is 4:56 PM which is not that bad.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on October 31, 2019, 11:37:48 PM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 31, 2019, 11:44:09 PM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

Nope. All the same shit until they realize that their ideas have unanticipated consequences.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: ozarkman417 on October 31, 2019, 11:47:45 PM


How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.



SM-G965U

Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: renegade on October 31, 2019, 11:53:51 PM


How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.
Still not a good enough reason for us to do that.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 01, 2019, 12:00:30 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

Nope. All the same shit until they realize that their ideas have unanticipated consequences.

Or that...gasp...different people value different things, and so setting things up to favor their preferences isn't universally seen as good!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on November 01, 2019, 12:01:38 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?
Nope, I'm trying to not do that. I like DST discussions.

Speaking of DST discussions, I think South Africa and Swaziland and even Brazil should try using DST! That way they can save energy and use the extra hour of daylight for longer outside activities.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 01, 2019, 12:13:11 AM
While I would prefer to have daylight later in the day I do tend to adjust how I budget my time to take advantage of maximum daylight hours.  Right now I've been getting up and out on the road for hiking at about 6 AM which is an hour from sunrise.  I'll have to start getting up at 5 AM now for similar activities but it really isn't all that much of an adjustment given I get up around then on days I run anyways. 
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: oscar on November 01, 2019, 12:40:06 AM
How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.

When I've traveled to Newfoundland, I've found its half-hour time zone really aggravating for anything for which I need to synch with Eastern time, such as for watching live sporting events, and other news events, elsewhere on TV. Throws me off much more than ET+1 (Atlantic time), -1 (Central time), -2 (Mountain time), etc.

But at least Newfoundland is mostly off on an island, far from its nearest populated neighbors. Michigan would have half-hour time zone differences between Detroit and neighboring Windsor and Toledo, for example.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jp the roadgeek on November 01, 2019, 02:14:16 AM
This is my suggested time zone map. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1773/29067492267_ab96b405e6_c.jpg)
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 01, 2019, 02:24:07 AM
Putting St. Louis and Kansas City in separate time zones seems like a bad idea.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Bruce on November 01, 2019, 02:56:45 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: ce929wax on November 01, 2019, 03:22:40 AM
My vote is for DST all year round.  I suffer from Season Affective Disorder really bad and the sun sets at 5 p.m. here are the worst as I hit a wall around that time unless I sleep until mid afternoon.  I'm a late night person (sometimes going to bed at 5 or 6 a.m, hence is why I would sleep until mid afternoon) so I'm usually asleep at sunrise, except for the summer when there were a couple of nights that it was getting light out as I was getting into bed.

Honestly, on dark, gray, gloomy days (we have a lot of them in Michigan, all year long), I would just rather it be dark out.  Maybe, I should consider moving to Alaska  :hmmm:
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: oscar on November 01, 2019, 05:53:32 AM
My vote is for DST all year round.  I suffer from Season Affective Disorder really bad and the sun sets at 5 p.m. here are the worst as I hit a wall around that time unless I sleep until mid afternoon.  I'm a late night person (sometimes going to bed at 5 or 6 a.m, hence is why I would sleep until mid afternoon) so I'm usually asleep at sunrise, except for the summer when there were a couple of nights that it was getting light out as I was getting into bed.

Honestly, on dark, gray, gloomy days (we have a lot of them in Michigan, all year long), I would just rather it be dark out.  Maybe, I should consider moving to Alaska  :hmmm:

Bad idea. Very little darkness in the summer, lots of it in the winter. There is a reason for the state's high alcoholism rate.

Try instead Hawaii. Most daylight is about 13 hours in the summer, least is about 11 hours in the winter. And no DST. But look for urban places with few roosters to wake you up when you'd rather not.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 01, 2019, 06:19:43 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).

Someone already said that in the last thread, too.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on November 01, 2019, 07:15:39 AM
I think New Jersey is fine where it is. if anything, move new England (except Connecticut) To the atlantic time zone. Whoever made that map likes late sunrises and sunsets.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Rothman on November 01, 2019, 07:30:22 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).
Afterschool sports will be an interesting conundrum.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: thspfc on November 01, 2019, 08:19:18 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).
Afterschool sports will be an interesting conundrum.
There's no outdoor after school sports in November, December, January, February, or March. (unless a football, soccer, or cross country team makes a deep playoff run.)
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: GaryV on November 01, 2019, 08:56:56 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).
Afterschool sports will be an interesting conundrum.
There's no outdoor after school sports in November, December, January, February, or March. (unless a football, soccer, or cross country team makes a deep playoff run.)
Soccer is a winter sport in many states.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jp the roadgeek on November 01, 2019, 09:14:09 AM
Anything to get rid of the switch back to darkness in the morning we now get in the Northeast when we spring forward.  Why there isn't a mass mutiny is beyond me.

Because we enjoy that extra hour and it being light after 7 PM in March.  But that 4:30 near darkness in November really causes the mutiny. There is always an increase in traffic accidents that first Monday because people arenít used to driving home in the dark during evening rush hour.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: renegade on November 01, 2019, 10:05:33 AM
My vote would be to lock this thread an hour ago. :pan:
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 01, 2019, 10:14:09 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).

In theory. Will probably take a few years to see if there is an actual difference.

Another assumption is that this will allow kids to get more sleep. If all it does is push bedtimes later, the actual length of sleep isn't going to change.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: ozarkman417 on November 01, 2019, 10:25:18 AM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/14/health/california-later-school-start-times-trnd/index.html)).

In theory. Will probably take a few years to see if there is an actual difference.

Another assumption is that this will allow kids to get more sleep. If all it does is push bedtimes later, the actual length of sleep isn't going to change.
And since class start later, I imagine they will end later. Only a thirty or so minute change can't make that much of a difference. On Fridays, school starts 20 minutes later and most people are already there at normal time.

SM-G965U

Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tradephoric on November 01, 2019, 11:18:27 AM
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.

EU parliament has already voted to scrap the mandatory time changes by 2021.  If you believe America should stay in sync with the EU, then America should scrap the time changes too.  The reality is the bills getting passed through state legislators is to get rid of the time changes entirely, and there is really no appetite to make small tweaks to DST by a week or two.

European parliament votes to scrap daylight saving time from 2021
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/26/european-parliament-votes-to-scrap-daylight-saving-time-from-2021
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: oscar on November 01, 2019, 11:49:31 AM
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.

Higher priority to be in sync with its immediate neighbors Canada and Mexico, which have not gotten a lot of attention in these discussions.

I agree with tradephoric, though, that small tweaks to DST aren't worth much discussion. You can call it "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic", though as a DST fan I won't.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 01, 2019, 11:57:08 AM
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.

Higher priority to be in sync with its immediate neighbors Canada and Mexico, which have not gotten a lot of attention in these discussions.

I agree with tradephoric, though, that small tweaks to DST aren't worth much discussion. You can call it "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic", though as a DST fan I won't.

The US isn't in sync with Europe on money, measurements, government, date format; and a host of other things.

Does it really matter if we're an additional hour behind or an additional hour ahead of Europe? Most people dont even know the time difference to begin with.

And why the focus on Europe? Because it meets certain people's desires. Why not worry about Japan or Russia or, as you accutely pointed out, Canada?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: GaryV on November 01, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Does Mexico use DST?  Being that far south, the difference in daylight from winter to summer isn't as pronounced. 
If they do use DST, I suspect it is to stay in sync with the US.  If the US changes, Mexico might change.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: vdeane on November 01, 2019, 01:11:39 PM
(3) The US should remain in sync with the EU/rest of the world as much as possible.

EU parliament has already voted to scrap the mandatory time changes by 2021.  If you believe America should stay in sync with the EU, then America should scrap the time changes too.  The reality is the bills getting passed through state legislators is to get rid of the time changes entirely, and there is really no appetite to make small tweaks to DST by a week or two.

European parliament votes to scrap daylight saving time from 2021
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/26/european-parliament-votes-to-scrap-daylight-saving-time-from-2021

Still needs to be ratified by member states, though I don't think there's any expectation that it won't be.

The US isn't in sync with Europe on money, measurements, government, date format; and a host of other things.

Does it really matter if we're an additional hour behind or an additional hour ahead of Europe? Most people dont even know the time difference to begin with.

And why the focus on Europe? Because it meets certain people's desires. Why not worry about Japan or Russia or, as you accutely pointed out, Canada?
The issue with Europe is that they have the time changes, but not at the same time, so it can be complex in certain times of year to remember the correct time offset.  Not a problem with Japan or Russia, which don't have DST.  Our time offset with them only changes twice a year at easily remembered times, not four times, two of which have no reference point in our country.  Plus a lot of businesses do business in both the US and Europe.

Does Mexico use DST?  Being that far south, the difference in daylight from winter to summer isn't as pronounced. 
If they do use DST, I suspect it is to stay in sync with the US.  If the US changes, Mexico might change.
In some areas, but they don't change at the same time.  Cancun went to permanent DST a few years ago.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: hbelkins on November 01, 2019, 02:30:50 PM
My position remains unchanged, and I was all prepared to make a snarky post here Sunday about it getting dark so much earlier than it did the previous day and if only we could do something about that...

I support year-round DST, and I do not support my part of Kentucky moving to Central time. It will be dark by the time I get home in the evenings next week (typically around 6 p.m.) and if I lived in Central time, it would be dark at 5.

Morning daylight does not affect me, but it's nice to be able to see to at least nominally do some things outside when the work day is over.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tradephoric on November 01, 2019, 02:40:46 PM
Going to permanent DST would be a convenient way to change up the social norms of this country.  Itís an American tradition to watch the super bowl yet the game doesnít end till around 11PM EST.  Yet many school districts along the east coast expect kids to be at school by 7AM meaning they may have to get up by 6AM to make it to the bus stop on time.  Kids minds are turning to mush because they arenít getting enough sleep!  But by going to permanent DST, school districts could push start times back an hour so the kids aren't waiting for the bus in darkness... and suddenly kids could watch the the super bowl, get up by 7AM the next day and still get 8 hours of sleep.  I highly doubt the super bowl would start an hour later if the nation went to permanent DST... advantage kids.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2019, 03:23:48 PM
Most people don't use that extra sunlight in the morning for anything but commuting, but pushing sunsets further into the evening allows for recreation and avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face. There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2019, 03:26:46 PM
we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway

A LOT of life revolves around school schedules.  In my opinion, changing school start times would gradually make other schedules change to match themówhich would then in turn negate any supposed advantages of year-round DST there were to begin with.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2019, 03:31:16 PM
Does Mexico use DST?  Being that far south, the difference in daylight from winter to summer isn't as pronounced. 
If they do use DST, I suspect it is to stay in sync with the US.  If the US changes, Mexico might change.

Mexico uses DST except for two statesóSonora (which borders Arizona) and Quintana Roo (the state farthest to the east).  However, keep in mind that acts of US Congress do not apply to Mexico, so Mexico did not change the start and end dates in 2007:  they're still on the "old" schedule.  That being said, though, in 2009 the border region did adopt the new US start and end dates in order to be in sync with the USA.  Confused yet?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 01, 2019, 03:44:26 PM
Going to permanent DST would be a convenient way to change up the social norms of this country.  Itís an American tradition to watch the super bowl yet the game doesnít end till around 11PM EST.  Yet many school districts along the east coast expect kids to be at school by 7AM meaning they may have to get up by 6AM to make it to the bus stop on time.  Kids minds are turning to mush because they arenít getting enough sleep!  But by going to permanent DST, school districts could push start times back an hour so the kids aren't waiting for the bus in darkness... and suddenly kids could watch the the super bowl, get up by 7AM the next day and still get 8 hours of sleep.  I highly doubt the super bowl would start an hour later if the nation went to permanent DST... advantage kids.


Congrats for posting the worst, most inaccurate excuse of why we should revert to perm DST. I'll be very surprised if any school begins before 7...there may be a few but very unusual. And they could easily open up an hour later now if they wanted. Besides...you're talking one day a year.

Hell...the adults are up later than the kids. American worker productivity is in the dumps Superbowl Monday. Wanna made a horrible argument...use that.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1 on November 01, 2019, 03:48:28 PM
Going to permanent DST would be a convenient way to change up the social norms of this country.  Itís an American tradition to watch the super bowl yet the game doesnít end till around 11PM EST.  Yet many school districts along the east coast expect kids to be at school by 7AM meaning they may have to get up by 6AM to make it to the bus stop on time.  Kids minds are turning to mush because they arenít getting enough sleep!  But by going to permanent DST, school districts could push start times back an hour so the kids aren't waiting for the bus in darkness... and suddenly kids could watch the the super bowl, get up by 7AM the next day and still get 8 hours of sleep.  I highly doubt the super bowl would start an hour later if the nation went to permanent DST... advantage kids.


Congrats for posting the worst, most inaccurate excuse of why we should revert to perm DST. I'll be very surprised if any school begins before 7...there may be a few but very unusual. And they could easily open up an hour later now if they wanted. Besides...you're talking one day a year.

Hell...the adults are up later than the kids. American worker productivity is in the dumps Superbowl Monday. Wanna made a horrible argument...use that.

Second worst. The worst argument is "we get X+1 hours of daylight with permanent DST and only X hours without it".
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: roadman on November 01, 2019, 04:03:30 PM
Adjust the clocks by one half hour and just be done with this whole nonsense. 
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kalvado on November 01, 2019, 04:08:41 PM
Adjust the clocks by one half hour and just be done with this whole nonsense.
Return to basics. India has a 5.30 offset from UTC for historic reasons.
Having NY offset by same 5.30 to UTC will underscore deep historic roots of the situation!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tradephoric on November 01, 2019, 04:20:00 PM
I just believe perm DST would be an effective way to nudge school districts to later start times.  The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend high schools start at 8:30 a.m. or later to give teens time for sufficient sleep.  Yet according to the National Center for Education Statistics data from 2015-16, only 14.4% of high schools start the school day at 8:30 a.m. or later. 

School would start later yet the super bowl would remain the same time.  The alternative is kids go to bed at 9PM during the super bowl just to get enough sleep for their early school start.  They turn out to be socially awkward outcasts who don't know who Tom Brady is.  Do we really want to live in a world where kids don't know Tom Brady?  For Tom Brady's sake, pick permanent DST!

Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: MNHighwayMan on November 01, 2019, 04:25:25 PM
Do we really want to live in a world where kids don't know Tom Brady?  For Tom Brady's sake, pick permanent DST!

Honestly, this is an argument against permanent DST.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1 on November 01, 2019, 04:26:07 PM
Adjust the clocks by one half hour and just be done with this whole nonsense.
Return to basics. India has a 5.30 offset from UTC for historic reasons.
Having NY offset by same 5.30 to UTC will underscore deep historic roots of the situation!

Moving NY to UTC-5:30 is in the opposite direction from what most people are proposing.

(I posted this a few minutes ago, modified it, and tried to delete the modification, instead deleting the entire post.)
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tradephoric on November 01, 2019, 04:29:03 PM
Honestly, this is an argument against permanent DST.

Touchť.  I just know there are more important things in life than getting up at 6AM to get ready for school... and watching the super bowl is one of them.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kalvado on November 01, 2019, 04:55:37 PM
Adjust the clocks by one half hour and just be done with this whole nonsense.
Return to basics. India has a 5.30 offset from UTC for historic reasons.
Having NY offset by same 5.30 to UTC will underscore deep historic roots of the situation!

Moving NY to UTC-5:30 is in the opposite direction from what most people are proposing.

(I posted this a few minutes ago, modified it, and tried to delete the modification, instead deleting the entire post.)
6.30 offset to UK and 12 hour to India makes things even easier...
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tradephoric on November 01, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png/1200px-World_Time_Zones_Map.png)

Timezones in America don't intrude into other timezones to the extent that they do in other parts of the world.  Permanent DST in America would be similar to standard time in other parts of the world.  As an example Detroit, Michigan and Vigo, Spain are on the exact same latitude and sunrise this Saturday will happen at 8:08AM in both cities.  But Detroit is still running DST while Vigo, Spain is running standard time.  Once both cities are running standard time, sunrise will be an hour earlier in Detroit even though both cities are on the exact same latitude.  Obviously China is the most extreme example of timezone intrusion, but most of these intrusions throughout the world lead to later sunrises and sunset times when compared to America.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on November 01, 2019, 06:25:26 PM
Spain... They proposed to go back to GMT but they didn't. It's probably because they don't want darker evenings.

Even Singapore is misplaced. 7am and 7pm sunrise sunset everyday. I prefer 6am and 6pm.

Look at Kashgar! it's way behind!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: MNHighwayMan on November 01, 2019, 08:48:51 PM
Look at Kashgar! it's way behind!

The only thing I'm behind are mothers.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: vdeane on November 01, 2019, 08:59:35 PM
Honestly, I don't know how Spain, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands do it.  Why didn't they go back to WET?  The way it is now, when they're on summer time, on the longest days of the year twilight lasts way past the point one would need to go to bed in order to wake up early enough to go to work the next day and still get a full night's sleep (7-8 hours).  I can sleep past sunrise easily enough, but trying to fall asleep before nautical twilight is even halfway done?  Forget about it!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on November 01, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Anything to get rid of the switch back to darkness in the morning we now get in the Northeast when we spring forward.  Why there isn't a mass mutiny is beyond me.

See, maybe this is just me, but the past two weeks have been much, much harder for me than the weeks after the spring forward. It feels like a realignment is now long overdue, while in the spring, it feels like the change comes at approximately the right point in the curve. It gets better every day, too, unlike now, when it gets worse every day as overall daylight continues to decrease.

Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: webny99 on November 01, 2019, 09:11:21 PM
So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark"...

Actually, I think that would be something new, no?  :-P
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: SSOWorld on November 01, 2019, 10:05:48 PM
Honestly, I don't know how Spain, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands do it.  Why didn't they go back to WET?
They prefer to stay DRY.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jakeroot on November 02, 2019, 02:30:20 AM
Most people don't use that extra sunlight in the morning for anything but commuting, but pushing sunsets further into the evening allows for recreation and avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face. There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

With permanent DST, we could eliminate driving to work in the light (for 80% of commuters) during a good portion of the late fall and early winter altogether, and extend, quite dramatically, the amount of light available to evening commuters. Right now, it seems to be a sliver given to both.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 02, 2019, 05:45:16 AM
With permanent DST, we'd never have to have one of these threads ever again.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: kalvado on November 02, 2019, 06:30:40 AM
With permanent DST, we'd never have to have one of these threads ever again.
Is this an advantage or a disadvantage, thought?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Revive 755 on November 02, 2019, 10:53:42 AM
Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Depends on when those commuters are actually on the road.  For some the end of DST brings back the sunlight in the face problem.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: renegade on November 02, 2019, 12:59:46 PM
Solved:  Put the entire nation (world?) on UTC.  Everyone looks at their phones constantly anyway, so put UTC on the screen, tell everyone to deal with it, and move forward with your self-important lives.  It's just a number anyway, and we're never going to be able to have more than 24 timezones, so just eliminate the problem of moving it back and forth twice a year.

Thead should still be locked an hour ago.  :bigass:
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: MNHighwayMan on November 02, 2019, 02:15:35 PM
and we're never going to be able to have more than 24 timezones

Actually, due to offset time zones, and the International Date Line, there are currently 38 time zones in use. (https://www.timeanddate.com/time/current-number-time-zones.html)

Thead should still be locked an hour ago.  :bigass:

This I agree with.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
With permanent DST, we'd never have to have one of these threads ever again.

Does that mean if it was permanent standard time, would we always have this debate?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1995hoo on November 02, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Depends on when those commuters are actually on the road.  For some the end of DST brings back the sunlight in the face problem.

I find one of the biggest problems is people who think theyíre exempt from using headlights because itís not pitch-black outside, regardless of whether weíre on standard time or DST. This past week Iíve routinely been getting home about 20 minutes after sunset and there are a lot of invisible cars on the road. Damn annoying when youíre trying to turn left. If thereís a big SUV with blinding headlights waiting to make the opposing left turn, Iím inclined to wait for the turn arrow rather than risk a crash because I canít see a car coming the other way with no lights on.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 02, 2019, 04:48:18 PM
Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Depends on when those commuters are actually on the road.  For some the end of DST brings back the sunlight in the face problem.

I find one of the biggest problems is people who think theyíre exempt from using headlights because itís not pitch-black outside, regardless of whether weíre on standard time or DST. This past week Iíve routinely been getting home about 20 minutes after sunset and there are a lot of invisible cars on the road. Damn annoying when youíre trying to turn left. If thereís a big SUV with blinding headlights waiting to make the opposing left turn, Iím inclined to wait for the turn arrow rather than risk a crash because I canít see a car coming the other way with no lights on.

You just presented opposite issues.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: hbelkins on November 02, 2019, 05:28:32 PM
They turn out to be socially awkward outcasts who don't know who Tom Brady is.  Do we really want to live in a world where kids don't know Tom Brady?

He's the guy with the under-inflated balls.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: renegade on November 02, 2019, 06:22:19 PM
They turn out to be socially awkward outcasts who don't know who Tom Brady is.  Do we really want to live in a world where kids don't know Tom Brady?

He's the guy with the under-inflated balls.
My favorite post today!
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: 1995hoo on November 02, 2019, 06:28:17 PM
Pushing sunrises earlier in the morning avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face.  There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

Depends on when those commuters are actually on the road.  For some the end of DST brings back the sunlight in the face problem.

I find one of the biggest problems is people who think theyíre exempt from using headlights because itís not pitch-black outside, regardless of whether weíre on standard time or DST. This past week Iíve routinely been getting home about 20 minutes after sunset and there are a lot of invisible cars on the road. Damn annoying when youíre trying to turn left. If thereís a big SUV with blinding headlights waiting to make the opposing left turn, Iím inclined to wait for the turn arrow rather than risk a crash because I canít see a car coming the other way with no lights on.

You just presented opposite issues.

No, the issues are directly related to each other: The SUV's bright headlights make it even harder to see the car in the adjacent lane being driven with no lights at all.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Finrod on November 03, 2019, 01:49:33 AM
Personally, I grew up in Indiana, so I didn't have to deal with daylight shavings for quite a long time.

That said, if I was king, I'd change DST as follows:

1. Keep the 2am -> 3am change in the spring, but change the fall so instead of changing clocks from 2am to 1am, make the change be from 3am to 2am.  This would make it so that while scheduling overnight cronjobs, I'd only have to deal with one hour where DST buggery messes with things instead of two hours like it is now.  Also, it would make the amount of time spent in DST be an exact multiple of 24 hours instead of being one hour short of it like it is now.

2.  Change spring DST change to April 1.  April Fools, you're late to work.  Change the fall DST change to November 1.  Let the kids stay up an hour later on Halloween.
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: tolbs17 on November 03, 2019, 01:50:05 PM
Also, it used to end before Halloween. I'm not sure they pushed it a week forward. Any questions on this guys?
Title: Re: DST (Fall 2019)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 03, 2019, 02:08:34 PM
The time change is complete, and so is this thread.