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Regional Boards => Central States => Topic started by: US71 on August 04, 2010, 06:54:42 PM

Title: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 04, 2010, 06:54:42 PM
http://contribute.modot.mo.gov/newsandinfo/District0News.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=58364

August 04, 2010 I-49 Coming to Missouri

JEFFERSON CITY - The Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission (MHTC) today approved highway construction resulting in the upgrading of the US 71 corridor between Kansas City and Joplin to interstate standards by the end of 2012.

"Improving US 71 between I-435 in Kansas City and I-44 near Joplin enhances economic development opportunities and freight movement," said Missouri Department of Transportation Interim Director Kevin Keith.  "We are excited about getting closer to an I-49 designation in Missouri."

The original intent was to fund a four-lane bypass of Bella Vista, Ark., creating an interstate from Joplin to Fort Smith, Ark.  However, recent correspondence from the Arkansas State Highway Commission indicates that due to funding shortfalls it intends to construct a two-lane Bella Vista bypass in phases over six years.

pdf map: http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/documents/I-49CorridorMap.pdf
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 04, 2010, 07:12:48 PM
A TWO LANE Bella Vista bypass?  What is AHTD smoking?  I'm guessing it's crack.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 04, 2010, 07:23:48 PM
Nah, it must be that high quality weed. lol.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 04, 2010, 09:06:42 PM
A TWO LANE Bella Vista bypass?  What is AHTD smoking?  I'm guessing it's crack.

Watch them try to toll the thing: no one will drive it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on August 04, 2010, 11:33:59 PM
A TWO LANE Bella Vista bypass?  What is AHTD smoking?  I'm guessing it's crack.

Watch them try to toll the thing: no one will drive it.

I might, depending upon how high the toll is and how many annoying, uncoordinated, possibly photo enforced stoplights there are in Bella Vista.  I'd be happy to pay 75 cents to $1.50 for a super-two (the freeway type, not the other type many states seem to define) bypass of Hannibal, MO.

EDIT:  In case anyone's wondering, I have never been through Bella Vista.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 05, 2010, 12:03:02 AM
A TWO LANE Bella Vista bypass?  What is AHTD smoking?  I'm guessing it's crack.

Watch them try to toll the thing: no one will drive it.

I might, depending upon how high the toll is and how many annoying, uncoordinated, possibly photo enforced stoplights there are in Bella Vista.  I'd be happy to pay 75 cents to $1.50 for a super-two (the freeway type, not the other type many states seem to define) bypass of Hannibal, MO.

EDIT:  In case anyone's wondering, I have never been through Bella Vista.

It is against Arkansas law to have automated traffic enforcement (Red Light Cameras, etc).
That being said, US 71 through Bella Vista is expressway quality, but suffers from too much traffic and too many businesses close to the roadway (and too many traffic signals). IIRC, the roadway was built (upgraded from 2 lanes) in the early 1970's. I'm sure at that time, no one expected the high traffic volume now passing through the area. But AHTD is not renowned for foresight.  :banghead:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2010, 10:18:17 AM
A TWO LANE Bella Vista bypass?  What is AHTD smoking?  I'm guessing it's crack.
C'mon, we're talking about Arkansas, so it's obviously crystal meth.

Hopefully the feds don't pull some nitpicky crap about a discontinuous I-49 for Missouri.
Assuming the interchange with current US 71 gets upgraded, I wonder what the prospects are for a 3di for that MO 249/MO 171 loop that Joplin has?  Looks like a nice little I-249 to me.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 05, 2010, 12:46:16 PM
A super two for the Bella Vista Bypass oh lord STUPID!!! Super says 140mph combined accident speeds to me. Is Arkansas purposely planning to build a road to kill people? You have the toll authority spend the money Arkansas toll it and build it right and SAFELY. BTW I see no bridge projects on Missouri's upgrade and there will still be sub standard bridges on their upgraded portion. Plus it if I remember right you can't end a Two Digit Interstate at a Three Digit Interstate so Missouri looks foolish by calling it I-49 when it won't get approval from the feds until Bruce Watkins is upgraded to Interstate standards. Bruce Watkins has been discussed many times here and will only get worse with more traffic from a upgraded US-71 being dumped into it. Why not spend the extra money to upgrade the Watkins and not play along with Arkansas's bastardized plan for a super dieway errrrrrr super two.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2010, 12:50:05 PM
Is Arkansas purposely planning to build a road to kill people?

you may be on to something here.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 05, 2010, 01:32:57 PM
Is Arkansas purposely planning to build a road to kill people?

Well, there is precedence  :

The original 1970's US 71/ Fayetteville Arkansas Bypass was 2 Lanes at-grade, including 2 railroad crossings. Within 10 years, it was all upgraded to expressway standards due to all the accidents at the cross-roads.

PLUS just past where the US 71 Freeway ends at Bella Vista (becoming an expressway), there is a traffic signal.

Oh, but let's not forget Business 71 at Pineville, MO either  :spin:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on August 05, 2010, 01:43:19 PM
Plus it if I remember right you can't end a Two Digit Interstate at a Three Digit Interstate

I-88 ends at I-290.
I-69 ends at I-465.
I-97 ends at I-895 (I-695?).
I-64 currently "ends" at I-270.
I-64 also ends at I-264 and I-664.
I-87 ends at I-278.

Therefore, I-49 can end at I-435 and I-470.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 05, 2010, 01:45:27 PM
Hopefully the feds don't pull some nitpicky crap about a discontinuous I-49 for Missouri.
Assuming the interchange with current US 71 gets upgraded, I wonder what the prospects are for a 3di for that MO 249/MO 171 loop that Joplin has?  Looks like a nice little I-249 to me.

I think I-49 is going to follow MO 249 instead of 71 through Joplin and Carthage.  Unless something has changed.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 05, 2010, 05:57:24 PM
If it does follow MO 249 then there will have to be major rework at the Interchange with US-71 which has a actual light.

Post Merge: August 05, 2010, 10:25:44 PM
Plus I am so strong on this as I have seen many lives lost on the Bruce Watkins and know it will only get worse with more traffic from a I-49 upgrade coming online. I also noticed MODOT did speed up things by a year as the Cass County portion was coming online until the FY-2013 budget originally. I think with the recession bids are coming in lower these days plus the power of bidding multiple work packages helps lower costs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 05, 2010, 06:15:01 PM
If it does follow MO 249 then there will have to be major rework at the Interchange with US-71 which has a actual light.

I would much rather see it follow I-44 to the Diamond exit, then north. Of course, that exit is antiquated.  :coffee:

Post Merge: August 05, 2010, 10:26:06 PM
Plus I am so strong on this as I have seen many lives lost on the Bruce Watkins and know it will only get worse with more traffic from a I-49 upgrade coming online.

Wasn't a state law passed preventing the upgrade of Bruce Watkins?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 05, 2010, 08:48:37 PM
A court order is effect but a certain Congressman who helped broker the deal could really help avoid neighborhood hassles associated with a upgrade. The upgrade itself could physically easily be done in a two year time span as their would be a Interchange at Gregory and a double Interchange at the two the further north lights. Plenty of room in the medians to do the upgrades and if a upgrade occured I would recommend 3 laning from Bannister Road up to the northern lights as both north and south of the area 6 lanes or more. A bottleneck would occur if a upgrade happened. Also to smooth over ruffles the upgraded Intersections could be designed with plenty of asthetic upgrades aka all of the other Interchanges on the Bruce Watkins. If 49 went thru to 44 and then switched over I would also upgrade I-44 to six lanes between the two sections of I-49.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: brownpelican on August 05, 2010, 10:33:59 PM
Kansas City's WDAF has a report showing mixed reaction to the plan.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story
 (http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 05, 2010, 10:42:43 PM
Kansas City's WDAF has a report showing mixed reaction to the plan.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story
 (http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story)

Leave it to FOX to put a negative spin.  HOWEVER, a couple people sounded a bit disappointed at the inconvenience of the at-grade intersections being eliminated but seemed happy overall that a potential safety hazard was being eliminated.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 06, 2010, 12:29:40 AM
A court order is effect but a certain Congressman who helped broker the deal could really help avoid neighborhood hassles associated with a upgrade. The upgrade itself could physically easily be done in a two year time span as their would be a Interchange at Gregory and a double Interchange at the two the further north lights. Plenty of room in the medians to do the upgrades and if a upgrade occured I would recommend 3 laning from Bannister Road up to the northern lights as both north and south of the area 6 lanes or more. A bottleneck would occur if a upgrade happened. Also to smooth over ruffles the upgraded Intersections could be designed with plenty of asthetic upgrades aka all of the other Interchanges on the Bruce Watkins. If 49 went thru to 44 and then switched over I would also upgrade I-44 to six lanes between the two sections of I-49.

To be honest, the area around Blue Parkway and Flush Creek is nicer looking with the elevated freeway than the area around the at grades is.  The freeway is very aesthetically pleasing.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 06, 2010, 12:33:40 AM
Kansas City's WDAF has a report showing mixed reaction to the plan.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story
 (http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-us71-i49-change-080510,0,237844.story)

The video claims it will become I-49 in 2012.  I'll believe that when I see it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on August 06, 2010, 12:42:14 AM
Yeah, the only 100% guarantee that I-49 in Missouri will be designated will be when the Texarkana–Fort Smith section is open, and that's not even in the draft stages, is it? Alternatively, someone could pull shenanigans like has been done with I-73 and I-74 to get I-49 designated on the north half, but that's undesirable...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 06, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
Agree with the elevated road way at Brush Creek and MODOT could do a joint intersection like they did with the BLVD's on both side of Brush Creek. This could save money on the two northern lights and do less damage to the neighborhood. A few very bad high speed wrecks have happened at those Cass County intersections.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 06, 2010, 11:35:19 AM
Agree with the elevated road way at Brush Creek and MODOT could do a joint intersection like they did with the BLVD's on both side of Brush Creek. This could save money on the two northern lights and do less damage to the neighborhood. A few very bad high speed wrecks have happened at those Cass County intersections.

Here are some considerations (from another list): some theorize the median would be better used for high speed rail. ALSO, any bridges built would have to conform to a certain decorative standard and some of the "exits" there are would have to be modified (67th St, 50th St).

CAN it be done? Probably. WILL it be done? No time soon. Where will the additional money come from?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 06, 2010, 03:14:18 PM
Agree with the elevated road way at Brush Creek and MODOT could do a joint intersection like they did with the BLVD's on both side of Brush Creek. This could save money on the two northern lights and do less damage to the neighborhood. A few very bad high speed wrecks have happened at those Cass County intersections.

Here are some considerations (from another list): some theorize the median would be better used for high speed rail. ALSO, any bridges built would have to conform to a certain decorative standard and some of the "exits" there are would have to be modified (67th St, 50th St).

CAN it be done? Probably. WILL it be done? No time soon. Where will the additional money come from?


Nobody is going to ride the high speed rail line.  Rail lines don't go to individual homes.  There could be a park and ride, but what's the point?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on August 07, 2010, 12:29:46 AM
Yeah, Kansas City is one of the few places that I can think of that would be a worse place for a rail line than Oklahoma City.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 07, 2010, 07:32:38 PM
KC isn't supporting any high speed now or ever. Put that crack pipe down Mike Sanders.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 30, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Interesting comment re I-49 in metro KC from AASHTO report presented in Little Rock today:

Quote
U.S. 71 Improvements From 155th Street to North Cass Parkway ... would contribute to the future upgrade of U.S. 71 to interstate standards to contribute to the I-49 Corridor.
http://expandingcapacity.transportation.org/states/MO_Unlocking_Gridlock_0410.pdf
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 30, 2010, 09:35:53 PM
Hopefully MODOT can come up with the funding to six lane this stretch and build Jersey barriers in the middle. For some reason it is very prone to accidents and with the North Cass Parkway more traffic will come online. The sight lines in this area are pretty good and a reasonable speed limit but for some reason that area just north of MO-58 has had more than it's share of accidents.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 30, 2010, 09:43:39 PM
Good find and the 155 Street Intersection is definitely in line for a upgrade with the new Intermodal Port at the old Richards Geubar Air Force Base. The Intermodal has added alot of truck traffic and the 155 Street Intersection is in poor shape physically and past it's design time.

I can see this getting done and maybe I-470 but the others are too big for MODOT to tackle with no money at this time.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 30, 2010, 10:01:30 PM
The 155th Quik Trip is a regular gas stop for me when I visit KC.  It's not too bad exiting NB 71, but trying to get back on 71 is a pain.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 31, 2010, 11:54:59 AM
I lived within a mile of that area for 2 years and saw the increase in traffic. Exits to the north and south have been reworked so it's time for 155th street. Plus 4 laning it into the old base would really help with the increased tractor trailer traffic out of the KC Southern Smart Port.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 12, 2010, 02:31:22 AM
Bruce Watkins Drive in KC now carries 2x its designed capacity.  What will "x" factor be when I-49 completed from I-435 to I-44, presumably in 2012?  Is it possible that, with increasing traffic, community leaders may have a change of heart similar to change of heart among community leaders in Shreveport, LA re Shreveport Inner-City Connector of I-49?:

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/24/2173385/the-watchdog-the-story-of-the.html

From Aug, 24, 2010 Kansas City Star:

Quote
The problem
Benjamin M. Smith of Peculiar works downtown and wants to know why, heading north from Gregory Boulevard, there are three stoplights on Bruce R. Watkins Drive (U.S. 71). They really slow his trip, he says.
“I would personally pay some money to fund a project to put in overpasses in this area. Not only does it add 15 minutes each way to my drive to/from downtown every day, the people trying to cross in the middle of 71 are placing themselves in danger. With overpasses you could put sidewalks in for them to cross.
“This would save many people money in gas, time, and wear and tear on their car.”

The answer
The stoplights resulted from a disagreement between the state of Missouri, which wanted to build a freeway along the entire 10-mile corridor, and some residents of the surrounding neighborhoods, who thought a freeway would damage and divide their community.
Litigation held up the project for years, even as the cleared route scarred the East Side.
But in a 1985 court settlement, neighbors won a concession:
The part of Watkins from Gregory Boulevard to 55th Street would be a parkway, with lower speed limits and traffic lights at 55th and 59th streets and at Gregory.
The idea was to give drivers easier access to nearby businesses and residential areas, increasing the likelihood of economic development. Also part of the deal was enhanced landscaping and fancier bridges along Watkins Drive.
Beth Wright, district engineer for the Missouri Department of Transportation, says the parkway portion of the road now carries twice the number of vehicles for which it was designed, which results in the problems Benjamin has experienced.
Later this year, Wright said, the three intersections are to be included in Operation Green Light, which aims to improve traffic flow by coordinating signals. The Watkins signals and their counterparts on Prospect Avenue will be re-timed, which should minimize delays on Watkins.
MoDOT and Operation Green Light will need to collect data and analyze it before looking at alternatives to the present design, Wright said.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 12, 2010, 12:49:44 PM
My soap box on this road is well documented. The Star however should have used number of deaths that have occured in this corridor. Beyond the delay in traffic is the dangereous intersections. The worst intersection is Gregory Blvd and has had many high speed horrific collisions over the years. The key is to get the community leaders around that area to open the case back up and allow full blown interchanges. MODOT could also smooth the transistion by continuing to add extra asthetic touches and even building sound dampening devices (walls would be kinda a slap to the neighborhood IMHO). Overall I think this area should be the number 1 concern for safety in the Kansas City area. I lived in Belton for 2 years and worked off the Plaza and purposely drove around this stretch to avoid the lights and danger.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 12, 2010, 03:30:04 PM
Sept. 12 Joplin Globe reports that MoDOT is still targeting Dec., 2012 as completion date for U.S. 71 upgrade to I-49 between Pineville and I-435:

http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x788124608/MoDOT-completes-four-interchanges-as-part-of-upgrading-U-S-71-to-interstate-status

Quote
With the completion of four interchanges in Southwest Missouri, Interstate 49 has moved farther down the road to reality .... there are 12 projects that still need done — interchanges, overpasses and outer roads in Barton, Vernon, Bates and Cass counties.
“We’ll be working on those the next two years,” ... “In the summer of 2011, people will likely see seven locations under construction.”
“We could complete it as early as December 2012,” he said of the 12 projects, which would bring the highway up to interstate standards from Pineville to I-435 in Kansas City ...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 13, 2010, 10:13:57 PM
It will be nice to add more Interstate miles in Missouri and soon the BVB will be back on the front burner IMHO.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 13, 2010, 10:32:31 PM
Sept. 12 Joplin Globe reports that MoDOT is still targeting Dec., 2012 as completion date for U.S. 71 upgrade to I-49 between Pineville and I-435:

http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x788124608/MoDOT-completes-four-interchanges-as-part-of-upgrading-U-S-71-to-interstate-status

"With the completion of four interchanges in Southwest Missouri, Interstate 49 has moved farther down the road to reality .... there are 12 projects that still need done — interchanges, overpasses and outer roads in Barton, Vernon, Bates and Cass counties.

“We’ll be working on those the next two years,” ... “In the summer of 2011, people will likely see seven locations under construction.”

“We could complete it as early as December 2012,” he said of the 12 projects, which would bring the highway up to interstate standards from Pineville to I-435 in Kansas City ..."

The article makes it sound like when the 12 projects are done, all of 71 north of Pineville will be I-49.  While it may be remotely possible (have 49 end at Route H), I truly have my doubts.


Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on September 13, 2010, 10:46:34 PM
I'm seeing it as meaning the highway would meet standards to be signed as an interstate, not that it will be signed.  It's possible MoDOT could openly defy AASHTO and the FHWA again and sign I-49 whenever they feel like it, as MoDOT has done with I-64 (not that such an act for I-49 would be that bad, given how obstinate AASHTO likes to be anymore to good highway signage -I-49 ought to already be signed on US 71 south of I-44 and on I-540 north of I-40 in Arkansas IMHO).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 13, 2010, 10:54:07 PM
The article makes it sound like when the 12 projects are done, all of 71 north of Pineville will be I-49.  While it may be remotely possible (have 49 end at Route H), I truly have my doubts.
I'm seeing it as meaning the highway would meet standards to be signed as an interstate, not that it will be signed.
Is Route H roughly where BVB was supposed to connect with US 71 before money got shifted to interchange projects?

EDIT - AT THE RISK OF REPEATING MYSELF

Go ahead and commit the $60 million - $65 million for MOBVB, build MOBVB, finish MOBVB and then sign entire Missouri section from AR state line to I-435 as I-49, whether AASHTO likes it or not.  Arkansas, although moving slowly, is working on their part of BVB.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 13, 2010, 11:16:34 PM

Is Route H roughly where BVB was supposed to connect with US 71 before money got shifted to interchange projects?

Yes. It's the next exit north.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 14, 2010, 02:20:52 PM
My soap box on this road is well documented. The Star however should have used number of deaths that have occured in this corridor. Beyond the delay in traffic is the dangereous intersections. The worst intersection is Gregory Blvd and has had many high speed horrific collisions over the years. The key is to get the community leaders around that area to open the case back up and allow full blown interchanges.
I checked "Missouri Expressways" thread and could not find discussion about this June 15 info; apologies if it has already been discussed elsewhere.  Recent "Bloody I-30" thread made me recall above comment and I started wondering if Bruce Watkins Drive was a "death zone".  In an approximate 10-minute "KC Currents" broadcast, the interviewed MoDOT representative acknowledges that Watkins Drive has a much higher average number of "rear-enders" than other highways in Missouri, BUT, in terms of fatalities, the freeway north of 55th has the highest fatality rate.  For this reason, it seems like MoDOT cannot approach the court for a "safety" exception to the court order:

KCUR FM Audio - "No Change In Store For Controversial Bruce R. Watkins Drive" (http://kcur.org/post/no-changes-store-controversial-bruce-r-watkins-drive)

Quote
KANSAS CITY, MO (kcur) - Tune in to the radio traffic reports any rush hour, and you're likely to hear one road name mentioned again and again. Highway 71, also known as Bruce R Watkins Drive, is known to cross-town commuters as one of the city's most accident-prone stretches of road. According to the Missouri Department of Transportation, the stretch between 55th Street and Gregory averages 277 accidents per hundred million vehicle miles, higher than the state average of 170 accidents for similar roadway types.

To paraphrase the representative from the community when questioned about the "rear-ender" statisitcs, "If you don't want an accident; don't drive the road".

EDIT - EMAIL RESPONSE FROM KCSTAR WATCHDOG

Watchdog says she has been monitoring Watkins Drive and would like to know specifics of crashes.  Her response:

Quote
Thank you for your interest in Watkins Drive. Over the years, we have monitored accidents there precisely because of the stop lights, but we have not developed an ironclad case that it is a death zone. The issue with the stop lights, of course, is that drivers on Watkins Drive are prone to rear-end crashes because they expect the freeway to continue and it doesn’t. The highway department did install warning lights to let people know of a red light ahead.
There was a recent horrific crash on Gregory Boulevard at Watkins Drive that killed a little boy. I suppose a case could be made that there would be no stoplight there on Gregory if it passed over Watkins Drive, but what happened could have happened at any intersection. The offending driver had PCP in his system.
However, I would appreciate a heads-up on what other accidents you found. I also will share your email with our transportation writer. The death zone idea is intriguing, whether it applies to Watkins or other stretches of roadway.
ARF!

SECOND EDIT - 2008 MISSOURI TRAFFIC SAFETY COMPENDIUM

Looks like 2009 edition has not hit Web yet. Approx. 300 pages.  Here's link: http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSHPWeb/SAC/pdf/missouri2008TrafficSafetyCompendium.pdf
Title: FHA Gives MoDOT GoAhead to Sign US 71 As I-49 After Interchanges Completed
Post by: Grzrd on October 30, 2010, 12:50:01 AM
The article makes it sound like when the 12 projects are done, all of 71 north of Pineville will be I-49.  While it may be remotely possible (have 49 end at Route H), I truly have my doubts.
FHA gives MoDOT OK to sign 71 as I-49 after 12 interchange projects are completed: http://www.carthagepress.com/news/x2115303609/I-49-to-bring-economic-opportunities-to-Carthage-Southwest-Missouri

Quote
Becky Baltz, district engineer for the Missouri Department of Transportation’s District 7, based in Joplin ... said MoDOT’s priorities in Southwest Missouri include converting U.S. 71 to I-49 in the next two years ...
She also announced that the Federal Highway Administration had given the state the okay to re-designate U.S. 71 to I-49 all the way to south of Pineville in McDonald County when it finishes the improvements between Carthage and Kansas City.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 30, 2010, 01:00:23 AM
She also announced that the Federal Highway Administration had given the state the okay to re-designate U.S. 71 to I-49 all the way to south of Pineville in McDonald County when it finishes the improvements between Carthage and Kansas City."

South of Pineville? If it's not Route H, then it must be at the future 71/49 split.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on October 30, 2010, 01:15:54 AM
Here's something else they mentioned in the artice:

Quote
Baltz said for now, the new interstate will run south through Carthage to the Fidelity interchange, then west on I-44 to where U.S. 71 now turns south toward Neosho.

Eventually, the department would like to rebuild the interchange between U.S. 71 and Missouri 171 and direct I-49 west then south on Missouri 249, removing that additional interstate traffic from an already-strained I-44.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on October 30, 2010, 10:02:50 AM
Eventually, the department would like to rebuild the interchange between U.S. 71 and Missouri 171 and direct I-49 west then south on Missouri 249, removing that additional interstate traffic from an already-strained I-44.
Will MoDOT base I-49 mileage (and related mile markers) on anticipated 71/171 interchange upgrade, or will they probably base mileage on the initial I-44 route?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on October 30, 2010, 08:41:13 PM
Who knows.  Maybe somebody should e-mail MoDOT and ask them this question.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on October 31, 2010, 02:20:46 PM
5 of the 12 projects went to bid this week for the I-49 upgrade. 2 different districts KC and Joplin are doing the upgrade. So I wouldn't be surprised to see two different timetables.

http://www.carthagepress.com/news/x2115303609/I-49-to-bring-economic-opportunities-to-Carthage-Southwest-Missouri
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: njroadhorse on October 31, 2010, 02:54:43 PM
Quote
That will allow the state to change U.S. 71 to I-49 from Kansas City to McDonald County, and with that change will come improved safety and opportunity for economic development.

That makes it sound like MoDOT would jump the gun on AASHTO, but in reality would they?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on October 31, 2010, 03:34:58 PM
She also announced that the Federal Highway Administration had given the state the okay to re-designate U.S. 71 to I-49 all the way to south of Pineville in McDonald County when it finishes the improvements between Carthage and Kansas City."
That makes it sound like MoDOT would jump the gun on AASHTO, but in reality would they?

I thought a waiver from the FHA, which MoDOT now has re signing I-49, supersedes any AASHTO decision to the contrary.  I am surprised MoDOT was given the goahead by the FHA to sign the section from I-44 to south of Pineville (I am assume that is northern end of BVB) because the southern end of this section would not immediately have an intersection with another interstate.

With the I-44 to Pineville section in mind, I now wonder if AHTD will seek a similar waiver from the FHA to resign I-540 to I-49 northward from I-40 to the southern end of BVB either now or concurrently with the Missouri signing of I-49?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on October 31, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
US-71/MO-249 would most likely require the interchange to go north of Carthage as that area is already congested with business's and houses's. However go north a bit and there is room to build and without taking too many houses and business's.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 01, 2010, 12:01:54 PM
She also announced that the Federal Highway Administration had given the state the okay to re-designate U.S. 71 to I-49 all the way to south of Pineville in McDonald County when it finishes the improvements between Carthage and Kansas City."
That makes it sound like MoDOT would jump the gun on AASHTO, but in reality would they?

I thought a waiver from the FHA, which MoDOT now has re signing I-49, supersedes any AASHTO decision to the contrary.  I am surprised MoDOT was given the goahead by the FHA to sign the section from I-44 to south of Pineville (I am assume that is northern end of BVB) because the southern end of this section would not immediately have an intersection with another interstate.

With the I-44 to Pineville section in mind, I now wonder if AHTD will seek a similar waiver from the FHA to resign I-540 to I-49 northward from I-40 to the southern end of BVB either now or concurrently with the Missouri signing of I-49?

Why would MoDOT care in particular what sort of waivers  the Federal Housing Administration was issuing? :hmmm:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 01, 2010, 01:19:24 PM
Federal Highway Administration ... I thought a waiver from the FHA ...
Why would MoDOT care in particular what sort of waivers  the Federal Housing Administration was issuing? :hmmm:
Good catch.  Wrong federal acronym.  :banghead:   Does FHWA work?    :crazy:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on November 01, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
It works and it is the one FHWA itself uses.  Wikipedia lists "FHA" as a possible acronym for FHWA, but it does clash with the acronym for the Federal Housing Administration.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 01, 2010, 01:52:21 PM
US-71/MO-249 would most likely require the interchange to go north of Carthage as that area is already congested with business's and houses's. However go north a bit and there is room to build and without taking too many houses and business's.

If memory serves correct, there is already a proposal to extend 249 to the north to give more direct access to Carterville.

I think upgrading old 71 (now MO 171) will be a major hassle.  There are several bridges that would have to be replaced. Plus rebuilding the 71/171/96/571 interchange would probably affect some of the nearby businesses.

It would be cheaper & easier (IMO) to upgrade I-44 and rebuild the 71/44/59 Interchange and run 49 along it permanently rather than change it around later.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 02, 2010, 09:11:36 PM
US-71/MO-249 would most likely require the interchange to go north of Carthage as that area is already congested with business's and houses's. However go north a bit and there is room to build and without taking too many houses and business's.
If memory serves correct, there is already a proposal to extend 249 to the north to give more direct access to Carterville.

I think upgrading old 71 (now MO 171) will be a major hassle.  There are several bridges that would have to be replaced. Plus rebuilding the 71/171/96/571 interchange would probably affect some of the nearby businesses.

It would be cheaper & easier (IMO) to upgrade I-44 and rebuild the 71/44/59 Interchange and run 49 along it permanently rather than change it around later.

Apparently, MoDOT has not even started a location study for this anticipated future routing and expects it not to happen until "many years into the future":   http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/I-49MapsandInformation.htm

Quote
Will I-49 follow the existing US 71 route? Why isn’t MO 249 being incorporated into the I-49 corridor?
The I-49 corridor will follow the existing alignment of US 71 from I-435 at the Grandview Triangle in Kansas City to I-44 at Fidelity in Jasper County.
The utilization of the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor as an interstate is not possible due to the presence of stopping conditions (traffic signals) at the ramps of the US 71/MO 171/MO 96 interchange near Carthage.
The solution to make the MO 171/MO 249 corridor interstate compatible requires substantial additional funding and a location study consisting of extensive public involvement. Both are likely many years into the future.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 03, 2010, 02:14:04 AM
Yep ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 03, 2010, 01:36:18 PM
Who knows.  Maybe somebody should e-mail MoDOT and ask them this question.
Well, I went ahead & e-mailed ...............

MoDOT's reply:

Quote
Thank you for contacting MoDOT.  I have concurred with our project manager Sean Matlock and he supplied the following information.  Mileage will be based on log mile marker zero at the Arkansas state line, utilizing the Bella Vista Bypass alinement and at least at the beginning I-49 will run concurrent with I-44 between exits 11 and 18.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 19, 2011, 03:53:48 PM
MODOT moving ahead with next step.

http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/newsreleases/District7News.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=65707
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 20, 2011, 10:54:27 PM
Tried to give MODOT Southwest a freindly push. Seems to me they lost the Pub trail once they put out the upgrade messages. Didn't know much about stuff being put out to bid and then being awarded. I know as a road geek and others look hard for this information. Hopefully they can better with the information. This is a major step for us road geeks to upgrade to Interstate 49 between KC and Joplin. Now for the BVB and Watkins upgrades (I so, so, want that dangerous place upgraded).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rte66man on February 22, 2011, 06:21:53 PM
What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.

rte66man
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 22, 2011, 10:13:03 PM
Tried to give MODOT Southwest a freindly push. Seems to me they lost the Pub trail once they put out the upgrade messages. Didn't know much about stuff being put out to bid and then being awarded. I know as a road geek and others look hard for this information. Hopefully they can better with the information. This is a major step for us road geeks to upgrade to Interstate 49 between KC and Joplin. Now for the BVB and Watkins upgrades (I so, so, want that dangerous place upgraded).

I often think that it would be convenient if it were standard for press releases about new construction always to include the contract number or project code.  But this is hardly ever done.  (This particular project, by the way, was call 702 in the October 22, 2010 letting.)

This is a bit of a nicety though.  This is my own MoDOT wish list:

*  The ability to download construction plans for all MoDOT projects directly at letting, rather than having to go through a zero-cost E-commerce transaction on a third-party website.  (MoDOT requires you to "buy" the plans for free so that your name goes on a planholder's list.  I think that, instead, you should be able to download the plans directly and it should be your responsibility to sign up on a planholder's list.  This is basically how it works in Kansas.  All of MoDOT's neighbor states except Iowa and Kentucky allow anonymous download.)

*  A complete online archive of as-builts for past MoDOT projects.

*  Plan sheet filenames which always have the job number first and which will collate in correct order without needing to be changed to insert zero fills, etc.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on February 24, 2011, 12:04:04 PM
Why does MoDOT need to know who has copies of the plans?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 24, 2011, 03:55:20 PM
I don't think they have a real need to know, but that is just my opinion.  To my knowledge, they have never stated a particular rationale for that aspect of their model of E-plans distribution.

In general terms, here are what I think are the possible motivations operating in states which don't allow anonymous download:

Reliable electronic distribution of addenda.  If the user is allowed to come in and download plans anonymously, the state DOT can't be sure that the user will have access to any changes made by addendum after advertisement.  Since any bid which does not expressly acknowledge all addenda is automatically ruled non-responsive, many state DOTs think it increases their chances of getting competitive bids if they make it hard for contractors to ignore addenda.  In the case of MoDOT, for example, whenever I download a project, I get all change notifications for that project by email from the time of download until bid opening.

Document control.  If you know who downloaded the plans, you know who has access (at least at first hand) to them.  States which consider structure plans to be sensitive (which is by no means all of them, but is still a worryingly large minority) tend to attach great importance to this point.

Facilitating coordination and transparency in bid preparation.  Contractors are typically required to state whether they will be bidding as a prime contractor or subcontractor when they order plans and a bidding proposal.  This preference, together with the contractor's business name and contact details, go on a planholders' list, which is usually the first point of reference for a prime contractor looking for subcontractors to handle certain aspects of a turnkey project, or for subcontractors looking to get a piece of the action from a prime contractor.  If a person is forced to be listed on a planholders' list in order to obtain a copy of the construction plans, this introduces a "push" factor into the process and makes certain types of collusive behavior easier to detect.

There are good counterarguments to all of these reasons, which is why a narrow majority of states operate an opt-in system which allows some anonymous online access to the plans but requires you to sign up for the planholders' list if you want to bid (either prime or sub).  Oklahoma DOT puts the plans online, for example, but advises you to order the paper plans so you get on the planholders' list and thus receive all addenda.  If you are interested in Michigan DOT, you can sign up for an Eproposals account which gives you online access to all their proposals and plans on login; you have to click "Add me to the planholders' list" for a given project if you want to be on the list for that project.

In the case of MoDOT, you can obtain a planroom account by declaring yourself either a "Contractor" or a "Vendor."  I declared myself a "Vendor."  When I order plans from MoDOT's planroom (which is actually run not by MoDOT itself but rather by Indoxservices, a blueprint company based in Denver and St. Louis, under contract to MoDOT), I have the option of ordering them on paper, for which there is a sliding charge based on sheet count, or electronically, for which there is no charge but for which I still have to go through a full E-commerce transaction.  Indoxservices at least allows me to opt out of being put on a public planholders' list, which prevents me from having to field calls from suppliers who are, e.g., interested in quoting me prices for pretensioning cable so I can put together a bid for the Noland Road bridge.

The advantage of ordering on paper is that all the sheets are sorted correctly--essentially as they are listed in the sheet list for the project.  If you order electronically, however, you get one file per sheet, and sheets for multiple jobs sort by sheet number rather than job number because the filename always begins with the sheet number rather than the job number.  So you get Sheet 1 Job 1, Sheet 1 Job 2, Sheet 1 Job 3, Sheet 2 Job 1, . . .  Part of the reason for this is that the sheet filename usually matches the MoDOT CAD filename and MoDOT has a tendency to design each job on its own, and then mix and match jobs later to make a contract.  (I have tried to "fix" this by using a file renamer utility to "move" the job number to the front of the filename.  But guess what?  Lots of job numbers in MoDOT sheet filenames have typos in them.)

When you finish your order, you have to wait for a ZIP file to be assembled with all the sheets you ordered.  The ZIP file is always made to order, since Indoxservices doesn't have prefabricated ZIP files lying around for people like me who always want the full Monty, and if you try to download the ZIP too early, you get all sorts of error messages.  When I work with Indoxservices, I try to do it outside regular business hours to avoid competition for disk and CPU time on their server.

When the ZIP comes from Indoxservices, the sheet files are all encrypted PDF with a constant-length garbage string just before the .pdf extension.  This means plans have to be read a sheet at a time with no ability to premerge on the fly for easy viewing.  MoDOT plots with layers and does E-signatures now, so when you load a sheet file in Acrobat, you get all kinds of dialog boxes dealing with E-signature validity.  It is such a hassle to deal with these that I just take a quick look at the sign panel detail sheets (which nearly always have the designation "Form D31" and quite often the strings "SN" [for signing] and "D31" in the filename), and then file and forget the project.  I have 138 MoDOT projects (about 9.5 GB worth) I have filed and forgotten in this way since the letting of August 21, 2009.  Maybe I will go through them all in five years when the tarball reaches 500 projects/50 GB in size.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 26, 2011, 09:46:21 AM
What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.

rte66man

I've not seen anything. Maybe it will be part of the proposed 249 extension (Carterville thinks 249 will be extended to give them more direct access)?
Title: MoDOT Money Crunch and I-49
Post by: Grzrd on May 04, 2011, 09:20:56 AM
What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.
rte66man
I've not seen anything. Maybe it will be part of the proposed 249 extension (Carterville thinks 249 will be extended to give them more direct access)?

MoDOT is facing a money crunch and may close its Joplin office. I-49 projects in pipeline, including MoBVB, should not be affected, but Highway 71/ Highway 171 interchange rebuild is now on long-term hold:

http://www.carthagepress.com/news/county/x741442777/Highway-commission-considers-closing-office

Quote
A long-predicted transportation funding cliff has arrived and the Missouri State Higways and Transportation Commission has to decide how to maintain more than 30,000 miles of roads with a budget that is less than half what it was a few years ago ... Joplin Chamber of Commerce President Rob O’Brian spent part of Tuesday in a meeting with David Nichols, chief engineer for MoDOT; Rudy Farber, Neosho, the vice chairman of the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission and Becky Baltz, the district engineer for the MoDOT District 7 office in Joplin to discuss those plans ... One of the consequences of the plans under discussion could be consolidating the MoDOT district in Joplin with the district in Springfield and either closing the Joplin office or drastically reducing the staff in Joplin ...
O’Brian said he was assured that projects in the pipeline now, including improving U.S. Highway 71 to interstate status from Kansas City to Carthage and redesignating it Interstate 49 and working with Arkansas to build a Bella Vista Bypass, will remain on track.
Future projects, such as rebuilding the Highway 171 and Highway 71 interchange to take I-49 to the Range Line Bypass and building a west corridor around Joplin, will remain on hold until MoDOT can find new revenue to build them.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on May 24, 2011, 04:02:41 PM
This just posted by MoDOT Southwest:
Vernon County residents: The work to upgrade Route 71 to interstate standards continues 6/1 when crews from Kolb Grading close the crossing and intersection at Rte E/71 near Milo, south of Nevada. The contractor will begin building the interchange, bridge and outer road connections. Motorists should take alternate routes during this time. The work will be finished by 12/2011.

I wonder if this means the end of the invisible Spur 71 at Milo?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on July 22, 2011, 03:39:36 PM
MoDOT has just advertised another I-49 contract--Call C01 in the letting of August 26, 2011.  ("C" in "C01" means "Central District," but actually the project was developed by District 4--MoDOT's old Kansas City district--and thus has a collection of J4PXXXX job numbers.)  This is probably the first where the signing plans actually call for installation of I-49 shields.

The work calls for provision of a diamond interchange at 307th Street south of Harrisonville, with overbridge and ramps lying entirely within the area defined by the existing outer roads:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harrisonville,+MO&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Harrisonville,+Cass,+Missouri&ll=38.559173,-94.35035&spn=0.00891,0.01929&z=16
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on July 24, 2011, 04:05:18 PM
Very easily built Interchange as you noted all the right of way is already purchased. Could easily be done in 9-12 months.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on July 24, 2011, 07:00:45 PM
MoDOT is currently working on upgrading Route M at Compton Junction as well as building a bridge (only) just north of the Marmaton River. There is also work on a new interchange at Routes AA /E north of Adrian.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on September 22, 2011, 06:40:21 PM
Latest piece of I-49 news:  MoDOT has advertised a contract (call number G01 in the letting of October 21, 2011) to upgrade signs in the I-49 corridor.  The purpose of this contract is to sign I-49 explicitly on the US 71 corridor between I-44 at Joplin and I-435 at Kansas City.

The plans set has 494 sheets (which is an unusually high sheet count for a signing contract), of which 100 are sign panel detail sheets.  I haven't gone through the plans set thoroughly yet, but a cursory inspection reveals the following:

*  I-49 signing does not seem to extend south of I-44.

*  I-49's northern end is explicitly signed:  "I-49 ends--Continue on US 71 north."

*  I-49 will have a number of business loops with Business 49 shields on advance guide and exit direction signs.

http://modot.indoxservices.com/

The "public planroom" will not require a vendor ID.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 22, 2011, 07:03:34 PM
Latest piece of I-49 news:  MoDOT has advertised a contract (call number G01 in the letting of October 21, 2011) to upgrade signs in the I-49 corridor.  The purpose of this contract is to sign I-49 explicitly on the US 71 corridor between I-44 at Joplin and I-435 at Kansas City.

The plans set has 494 sheets (which is an unusually high sheet count for a signing contract), of which 100 are sign panel detail sheets.  I haven't gone through the plans set thoroughly yet, but a cursory inspection reveals the following:

*  I-49 signing does not seem to extend south of I-44.

*  I-49's northern end is explicitly signed:  "I-49 ends--Continue on US 71 north."

*  I-49 will have a number of business loops with Business 49 shields on advance guide and exit direction signs.

http://modot.indoxservices.com/

The "public planroom" will not require a vendor ID.

I wasn't able to find them. I found the Public Planroom, but none of the 4 links could I find anything on I-49
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on September 22, 2011, 08:23:00 PM
Bread crumb trail:  Top page --> "Public planrooms" --> "Projects let by MoDOT" --> First of six pages of listings.  Call G01 (contract 111021-G01) will be on the second page of listings.

This direct link may work if you have gone through the login wall at least once:

http://dfs.indoxservices.com/MoDOTTheme/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=8CF454E5-19CD-4335-B5FD-574513034A71

You can choose between thumbnail and list view.  I think the latter has been set as the default, but thumbnails might be useful for identifying sheets of interest.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 22, 2011, 11:27:20 PM
Bread crumb trail:  Top page --> "Public planrooms" --> "Projects let by MoDOT" --> First of six pages of listings.  Call G01 (contract 111021-G01) will be on the second page of listings.

This direct link may work if you have gone through the login wall at least once:

http://dfs.indoxservices.com/MoDOTTheme/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=8CF454E5-19CD-4335-B5FD-574513034A71

You can choose between thumbnail and list view.  I think the latter has been set as the default, but thumbnails might be useful for identifying sheets of interest.

OK, finally found it. Lots of different screens to go through. I see the 71 signs are outlined in dashes, where the 49 signs are not. Will 71 "disappear" like it has along I-540 in Arkanaas?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on September 23, 2011, 12:57:53 AM
No, it looks like MoDOT is keeping US 71 but pruning instances of Business US 71.  In signing plans the convention is to use dashed lines to indicate existing signs and other roadway elements.  This plans set is full of dashed lines because there are relatively few full sign panel replacements on the I-49 mainline:  at most exits, the exit tabs and gore signs are being changed, invariably to reflect new milepointing for I-49.  The mainline sign panel replacements are concentrated in Joplin and Kansas City and have to do with I-49's "ride-along" on I-44 and its termination in the Grandview Triangle mess.  With regard to trailblazer assemblies, all of the US 71 stuff appears in dashed lines but the sign summaries almost invariably say "Reuse signs" or "Reuse 71 signs."  Many of the crossroad signs are being replaced because the existing panels are too small to accommodate both I-49 and US 71 shields.  Business US 71 overlays are being removed to accommodate new 36" Business 49 shields, which suggests that in most if not all cases Business 49 will overlap existing Business US 71 designations and is my reason for suspecting that those designations will be removed.

I was wrong, BTW--this signing contract covers I-49 all the way from Exit 5 (Route H Pineville/Noel exit, just north of the Arkansas state line and projected northern end of the Bella Vista Bypass) to Exit 182 (Grandview Triangle).  There will be a "49 ends, continue on 71" sign at the Pineville end as well.  Going north, exit numbers on I-49 will drop from 39 to the mid-teens (approximately mileposts 11 to 18) since I-44 milepointing will govern on the shared I-44/I-49 stretch, but there will be no duplication of exit numbers on I-49, the closest approach to collision being I-49 Exit 17 (about 22 miles south of the I-44 concurrency) and I-44 Exit 18.

Bottom line:  once I-49 is signed it will still be easy to follow US 71 across Missouri.  From the standpoint of message loading it would be helpful not to have US 71 shields on every single crossroads sign and pull-through from Arkansas to Kansas City.  I wouldn't argue in favor of eliminating signing for US 71, however, because it is the continuation of I-49 on both ends and relates well to the navigational resources that are already available.  In the future, when the I-49 designation is bedded in, US 71 could very well be de-emphasized the way US 40 has been with regard to I-70 in Kansas.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on September 23, 2011, 07:01:21 PM
It never used to be the MoDOT way to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error.

(Edited for clarity)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 23, 2011, 09:04:21 PM
It never used to be the MoDOT to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error.  

Mostly true, though I've noticed missing signage along I-70 near the MO/KS Border.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on September 24, 2011, 12:06:42 AM
Nevertheless, I still feel that once this project is finished, MDOT and FHWA should attempt one last try to convince the KC neighborhoods in the Bruce Watkins Drive communities to negotiate ending the consent decree and allow completion of the missing segments of the US 71 freeway, even through possible cut-and-cover tunnel segments that could preserve the park median segments.  If the Allendale community in Shereveport can  be turned around on the issue of the I-49 Inner City Connecter going through Shereveport (and they would have been far more dramatically affected), then why not BWD?? It makes no sense to build such a elongated major route and merely truncate it at the outskirts of a metro area.

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.


Anthony
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 24, 2011, 09:22:43 AM

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.

Anthony

How much precedent is there for ending a 2d at a 3d? Though 470 could be an option.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on September 24, 2011, 09:30:31 AM
How much precedent is there for ending a 2d at a 3d? Though 470 could be an option.
Assuming you mean in the suburbs (so I-4 at I-275 doesn't count): I-88 at I-290/294.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 24, 2011, 10:23:36 AM
One can only hope Anthony as the backups are legendary in the AM and PM at those 3 lights. Room is there for overpasses and I think the most of the neighborhood is tired of the wrecks and pollution. One person and one person only can get this done with little protest from the neighborhood and that is Emaunel Clever. The one light that has had multiple deaths is the Gregory one and it should be done first.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 24, 2011, 10:43:03 AM
Nevertheless, I still feel that once this project is finished, MDOT and FHWA should attempt one last try to convince the KC neighborhoods in the Bruce Watkins Drive communities to negotiate ending the consent decree and allow completion of the missing segments of the US 71 freeway, even through possible cut-and-cover tunnel segments that could preserve the park median segments.  If the Allendale community in Shereveport can  be turned around on the issue of the I-49 Inner City Connecter going through Shereveport (and they would have been far more dramatically affected), then why not BWD??
One can only hope ... One person and one person only can get this done with little protest from the neighborhood and that is Emaunel Clever.
Both the I-49 Inner City Connector and the Lamar Avenue Corridor in Memphis are currently undergoing coordinated FHWA and HUD studies.  Maybe the carrot for Clever would be HUD money for systematic revitalization of the neighborhood around BWD in conjunction with a palatable upgrade of BWD to I-49.  Missouri IS typically a close call during presidential elections ...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 24, 2011, 12:21:04 PM
The magic for EC is to name something after him. EC loves him EC. I would throw in prettied up sound walls, lots of landscaping and extra fancy work on the overpasses.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 24, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
From Aug, 24, 2010 Kansas City Star:
"The problem
Benjamin M. Smith of Peculiar works downtown and wants to know why, heading north from Gregory Boulevard, there are three stoplights on Bruce R. Watkins Drive (U.S. 71). They really slow his trip, he says ...

The answer
The stoplights resulted from a disagreement between the state of Missouri, which wanted to build a freeway along the entire 10-mile corridor, and some residents of the surrounding neighborhoods, who thought a freeway would damage and divide their community.
Litigation held up the project for years, even as the cleared route scarred the East Side.
But in a 1985 court settlement, neighbors won a concession:
The part of Watkins from Gregory Boulevard to 55th Street would be a parkway, with lower speed limits and traffic lights at 55th and 59th streets and at Gregory.
The idea was to give drivers easier access to nearby businesses and residential areas, increasing the likelihood of economic development. Also part of the deal was enhanced landscaping and fancier bridges along Watkins Drive.
Beth Wright, district engineer for the Missouri Department of Transportation, says the parkway portion of the road now carries twice the number of vehicles for which it was designed, which results in the problems Benjamin has experienced.
Later this year, Wright said, the three intersections are to be included in Operation Green Light, which aims to improve traffic flow by coordinating signals. The Watkins signals and their counterparts on Prospect Avenue will be re-timed, which should minimize delays on Watkins.
MoDOT and Operation Green Light will need to collect data and analyze it before looking at alternatives to the present design, Wright said."

Apparently, the hoped-for economic development from the parkway design has not occurred, and traffic is increasingly exceeding the parkway's design capacity, which in turn is probably having a negative impact on both the surrounding neighborhoods and the drivers on BWD.  Maybe Cleaver would be willing to have FHWA and HUD assist MoDOT in rethinking solutions to the intertwined traffic AND neighborhood problems, particularly since the two federal agencies are rapidly gaining experience in conducting these types of analyses.

FWIW October 22 will be the ten-year anniversary of the opening of BWD:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/newsandinfo/publications/Pathways/fall2001/pdf/vital_link.pdf

Traffic twice the design capacity in less than ten years.  What a shame.  And here comes I-49 traffic from the south ...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on September 24, 2011, 01:52:26 PM
It would be good to have the stoplights removed, but personally I am not convinced that the I-49 designation should be extended to the downtown ring.  What would be the point?  Even with stoplight removal the US 71 freeway will serve primarily local traffic, and I-49 traffic can get almost anywhere in the Kansas City metropolitan area from the Grandview Triangle.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 25, 2011, 12:28:23 AM
I am not convinced that the I-49 designation should be extended to the downtown ring.  What would be the point?  Even with stoplight removal the US 71 freeway will serve primarily local traffic, and I-49 traffic can get almost anywhere in the Kansas City metropolitan area from the Grandview Triangle.
Very interesting question.  Two visceral roadgeek points:
(1) desirability of a "clean" 2di to 2di connection (I-49 to I-70) at downtown loop; and
(2) High Priority Corridor 1 is defined by legislation as Kansas City to Shreveport; a northern terminus at the edge of the downtown loop would seem to meet the legislative intent of "Kansas City" better than a northern terminus at the Grandview Triangle.  Similarly, assuming parkway converted to interstate grade, uniform signage along the entire corridor as I-49 would seem to better define the corridor as being of national significance instead of changing the corridor's designation at the Grandview Triangle and signing an interstate-grade BWD as US 71 (since BWD has also presumably been legislatively deemed to be of national significance).

To be sure, roadgeek concerns would not rule the day.  I believe the proper designation of the upgraded BWD would boil down to a political calculation: would the neighborhoods and businesses adjacent to an upgraded BWD be better served by an I-49 brand or a US 71 brand?  My initial reaction is that, over the long term, local businesses would be better served by the I-49 brand, whereas the freeway's designation one way or the other would have less of an impact on residential neighborhoods.

Above said, it would be interesting to read a study on that question.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on September 25, 2011, 12:41:29 AM
It never used to be the MoDOT to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error. 

Mostly true, though I've noticed missing signage along I-70 near the MO/KS Border.

Ah, but the signage near the KC loop gets kind of screwy anyway - I recall I-70 actually disappearing near the I-670/US 71 interchange.

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.

As much as I'd like to see I-470 removed and freed up for use elsewhere in the state, to me it looks better to route I-49 up I-435 to terminate at I-35 near Claycomo so it connects with another north-south corridor.  Or one could go even farther and take I-49 over I-435 to I-29.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 25, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
As a road geek I would love it to go downtown via the Watkins. As human being I just want those death traps removed at the three lights.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Sykotyk on September 28, 2011, 02:43:43 PM
It never used to be the MoDOT to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error. 

Mostly true, though I've noticed missing signage along I-70 near the MO/KS Border.

Ah, but the signage near the KC loop gets kind of screwy anyway - I recall I-70 actually disappearing near the I-670/US 71 interchange.

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.

As much as I'd like to see I-470 removed and freed up for use elsewhere in the state, to me it looks better to route I-49 up I-435 to terminate at I-35 near Claycomo so it connects with another north-south corridor.  Or one could go even farther and take I-49 over I-435 to I-29.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I-49 along I-435 to I-29, and then reroute I-435 east along the I-470 corridor to end at the MO-291/I-70 interchange. I-435 would become a slightly longer G shaped loop from I-29 due south to I-35 due east to US-50/291 due north to I-70.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on September 30, 2011, 07:56:47 PM
It never used to be the MoDOT to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error. 

Mostly true, though I've noticed missing signage along I-70 near the MO/KS Border.

Ah, but the signage near the KC loop gets kind of screwy anyway - I recall I-70 actually disappearing near the I-670/US 71 interchange.

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.

As much as I'd like to see I-470 removed and freed up for use elsewhere in the state, to me it looks better to route I-49 up I-435 to terminate at I-35 near Claycomo so it connects with another north-south corridor.  Or one could go even farther and take I-49 over I-435 to I-29.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I-49 along I-435 to I-29, and then reroute I-435 east along the I-470 corridor to end at the MO-291/I-70 interchange. I-435 would become a slightly longer G shaped loop from I-29 due south to I-35 due east to US-50/291 due north to I-70.

Having the new I-435 corridor so near to the old one would probably be rather confusing and would require breaking the "435 is a loop" idea that KC drivers have always had, and the Grandview Triangle is constructed in such a way that this would require a TOTSO for I-49. I would just leave 49 at I-435 for now with an eye to possibly extending it up Bruce Watkins Drive in the future should the stoplight issue ever be resolved.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on October 05, 2011, 01:02:51 AM
I've gone ahead and updated the US 71 exit guide to reflect the impending I-49 conversion.

http://www.route56.com/exitguides/us71.html

Obviously, until I-49 is officially signed, all BR-49 references are currently BR 71

Comments are welcome (I really ought to do a I-44 guide)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 05, 2011, 06:57:04 AM
I noticed this weekend that a couple sign assemblies and guide signs have been altered to accommodate I-49 signs. I was running late, so didn't have time for photos.

Tangentially related: several sign gantries got demolished near I-44 and US 71 during May's Joplin tornado. Most have not yet been replaced.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on October 05, 2011, 07:16:04 PM

Tangentially related: several sign gantries got demolished near I-44 and US 71 during May's Joplin tornado. Most have not yet been replaced.

Notice on the signing diagram on I-44 (I know) and on US 71 South (EDIT:Checked and same as I-44) the Gantries say "Signs to New Overhead Truss".  
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: builder_J on October 14, 2011, 05:12:49 PM
I've gone ahead and updated the US 71 exit guide to reflect the impending I-49 conversion.

http://www.route56.com/exitguides/us71.html

Obviously, until I-49 is officially signed, all BR-49 references are currently BR 71

Comments are welcome (I really ought to do a I-44 guide)

Watkins Drive has some turnoffs not on the list: There are NB and SB turnoffs at 53rd and 69th Streets in addition to the ones listed at 57th and 60th.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on October 20, 2011, 12:52:55 AM
I noticed this weekend that a couple sign assemblies and guide signs have been altered to accommodate I-49 signs. I was running late, so didn't have time for photos.
I'm planning a trip to Kansas City... Probably within the next few weeks.  If I see anything, I'll do my best to get a pic!  I am VERY looking forward to the I-49 designation between I-44 and KC!  Why can't Arkansas get their act together... This thing needs to be built!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on October 20, 2011, 08:53:08 PM
I feel the same way. It seems that AHTD looks for the Feds to give All the money. I think those days are over. Being the #1 designated corridor seems it would trump all other prioroties. Just needs to be around Little Rock and it would get more funding. We do not have 1 mile designated I-49 yet. Do you guys think that nearly every contractor over runs the time limit? I think we need hold the time limit better on these jobs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on October 25, 2011, 10:57:32 PM
On October 15, the AASHTO Highways Special Committee on U.S. Route Numbering reported its conditional approval for the I-49 designation in Missouri when it becomes complete and open to traffic in December 2012; the Committee also gave the same conditional approval for Business Loop I-49 designations in Butler, Joplin, Neosho, and Nevada [pages 6-7/8 of pdf]:
http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/USRN%20Report%20to%20SCOH%20Oct%2015%202011.pdf
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 30, 2011, 09:45:59 AM
I feel the same way. It seems that AHTD looks for the Feds to give All the money. I think those days are over. Being the #1 designated corridor seems it would trump all other prioroties. Just needs to be around Little Rock and it would get more funding. We do not have 1 mile designated I-49 yet. Do you guys think that nearly every contractor over runs the time limit? I think we need hold the time limit better on these jobs.

AHTD spends too much money on Pet Projects.  They wanted to build I-49 at Bella Vista as a toll road, then wanted Federal money.  I see they did get ARRA money for the "Hiwasse Bypass" (as I call it) and it's well underway.  I-49 will pass under AR 72, but over AR 279. My camera was dead Friday or I would have tried for some photos.

ALSO: Missouri has rearranged a couple sign assemblies near Joplin to make room for I-49 shields.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on October 30, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Glad to hear the progress. I drove by the the project Sept 3rd when I went a Razorback game. I could not tell whether 72 North would go over I-49 or under, because they were just getting to that crossing. I think 11/5/11 is the bid info for December. I hope they let the grading contract for 72 north to Missouri.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on November 07, 2011, 07:54:24 PM
I have a question about when do you know when Missouri Highway Department Lets a contractor start on a job. I saw on their site that Radmacher Brothers excavation co. won the low bid on the 3 upgrades, 307th street interchange, 327th street intersection and 283rd intersection in Cass county Aug. 26th. But I don't see anything on their site showing any road work is going on these. Maybe I am missing where they have their jobs under construction.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 07, 2011, 08:15:54 PM
I have a question about when do you know when Missouri Highway Department Lets a contractor start on a job. I saw on their site that Radmacher Brothers excavation co. won the low bid on the 3 upgrades, 307th street interchange, 327th street intersection and 283rd intersection in Cass county Aug. 26th. But I don't see anything on their site showing any road work is going on these. Maybe I am missing where they have their jobs under construction.

May have to field check it. I'll be up that way in December, so I'll try to remember to look.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on November 08, 2011, 01:16:26 AM
Before a contractor can start working on a job, a Notice to Proceed (NTP) has to be issued.  A few state DOTs make NTPs available through their websites in some fashion, but MoDOT is not one of them.  In order for a NTP to be issued, the contract has to be awarded first.  It is not uncommon for contracts to be let but not awarded--sometimes the low bid is too high or the prospective awardee is disqualified for one reason or another.

August 26th was a little over two months ago, so assuming that the contract was indeed awarded to the low bidder, I would expect work on these interchange jobs to start right about now, barring things like winter work stoppages.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 19, 2011, 06:26:01 PM
Another step towards I-49 in Missouri:
http://www.fstribune.com/story/1786299.html

Quote
The transformation of U.S. 71 Highway to Interstate 49 came another step closer to completion when the interchange at U.S. 71 and Highway E, north of Milo, opened to traffic on Friday. Information found on the Missouri Department of Transportation's Web site, www.modot.org, indicates motorists are likely to see workers in the area of this interchange next week, when they expect to be doing such things as installing white plastic lane markers along ramps and removing the crossover on U.S. 71.
Work also continues on an interchange at U.S. 71 and DD. In this area, workers will be installing guardrail and road signs, spreading grass seed and mulch and continuing work on the interchange.
Interchanges at Compton Junction and Stotesbury opened earlier this fall.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 19, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
Another step towards I-49 in Missouri:
http://www.fstribune.com/story/1786299.html

"The transformation of U.S. 71 Highway to Interstate 49 came another step closer to completion when the interchange at U.S. 71 and Highway E, north of Milo, opened to traffic on Friday. Information found on the Missouri Department of Transportation's Web site, www.modot.org, indicates motorists are likely to see workers in the area of this interchange next week, when they expect to be doing such things as installing white plastic lane markers along ramps and removing the crossover on U.S. 71.

That was fast! I'll be up that way in December, so I'll try to snag some photos.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on November 19, 2011, 10:08:11 PM
I know he's the sports guy, but, come on Scott Nuzum, you could at least double as a transportation writer ;)

(or, maybe you can comment about who wrote the Tribune article)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 19, 2011, 10:53:06 PM
I know he's the sports guy, but, come on Scott Nuzum, you could at least double as a transportation writer ;)

Sometimes, he does, like when he published my "Not 69" photo ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on November 20, 2011, 03:42:17 AM
That was a story for our weekend paper, which is a combined Fort Scott/Nevada edition. It doesn't have its own web site, so it gets put on each of ours with a "Herald-Tribune" byline...the exact same story is on the Nevada Daily Mail site http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1786287.html (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1786287.html). It was written by someone over in Nevada. There's only two news writers over there. But since there was no byline, I'm guessing it was a press release that was edited to fit AP style.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 05, 2011, 07:08:42 PM
Updated completed projects and anticipated dates.........

http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 10, 2011, 10:50:11 AM
On Monday, December 19, MoDOT is coordinating three separate dedication cermonies related to the US 71 to I-49 conversion:
http://modot.mo.gov/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=140759

Quote
... Five interchanges, two overpasses and several outer roads were built in 2011 for a total cost of $21.3 million.
Two more interchanges, two more overpasses and one more outer road are scheduled for construction in 2012. The work in 2012 will complete the U.S. 71 upgrade between Kansas City and Pineville near the Missouri-Arkansas state line.
Also in 2012, a corridor-long project is scheduled to install I-49-related signs.
MoDOT is working with the Federal Highway Administration for final approval of the I-49 designation by December 2012 ...
Local and state officials will join MoDOT staff for three dedication ceremonies Dec. 19:
* 10 a.m. at Bates County Route AA/E north of Adrian (along U.S. 71 west outer road south of interchange) ...
* 12 Noon at Vernon County Route E near Milo south of Nevada (along U.S. 71 east outer road north of interchange) ...
* 2 p.m. at 30th Road Overpass near Lamar and Lamar Heights ...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 11, 2011, 02:10:57 PM
I miss the Joplin regional office. They did a much better job of updating info than Springfield.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 11, 2011, 08:21:29 PM
I was in Kansas City this weekend, so I got to take a look at the progress on 71/49. Forgive me if there is some duplication of previous messages.

The west bridge pier is just now under construction at 327th, but the outer roads have recently been completed on both sides of 71. There was also a VMS warning of lane closures beginning 12/12.

I noticed no construction at 307th, but perhaps work is going on where it's not seen from 71.

Route DD appears to be complete, but is not open yet: the sign crews were erecting signs Friday.

No work at all at Route BB. I didn't even see any survey markers.

Route M is open at Compton Junction as is Route D to Stotesbury.  Old 71 at Compton Jct now serves as an outer road between M and D and the old bridges remain in place...at least for now.

AA/E is open to traffic. It is simply AA/E (or E/AA southbound) with no control city.

Route E is open at Milo. The east Outer Road runs south and connects to the "invisible" Spur 71


Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 14, 2011, 06:52:10 PM
Route DD Interchange opened today.


MoDOT Traffic Alert: New Route 71/Route DD Interchange
South of Milo OPEN to Traffic
 
When: 1 p.m. today (Wed., Dec. 14)

Where: Route 71 at Vernon County Route DD south of Milo.

What: New interchange and outer roads open to traffic. Route DD also reopened.

USE CAUTION: Contractor crews continue installing new road signs at interchange. Be alert for lane closings and narrowed ramp lanes
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 14, 2011, 10:33:12 PM
Route DD Interchange opened today.


MoDOT Traffic Alert: New Route 71/Route DD Interchange
South of Milo OPEN to Traffic
 
When: 1 p.m. today (Wed., Dec. 14)

Where: Route 71 at Vernon County Route DD south of Milo.

What: New interchange and outer roads open to traffic. Route DD also reopened.

USE CAUTION: Contractor crews continue installing new road signs at interchange. Be alert for lane closings and narrowed ramp lanes

"County Route DD?"
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on December 14, 2011, 10:35:12 PM
Probably a somewhat awkward way of saying (Vernon County) (Route DD).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 14, 2011, 10:49:51 PM
Probably a somewhat awkward way of saying (Vernon County) (Route DD).

Considering the "cut-out" style signs were

State Road
DD
Vernon
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mgk920 on December 15, 2011, 12:53:18 AM
Probably a somewhat awkward way of saying (Vernon County) (Route DD).

I'll have to check to see if there is a 'County 'DD'' in Vernon County.

(Vernon County, Wisconsin, that is  :nod: )

Mike
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 20, 2011, 08:53:13 AM
http://modot.mo.gov/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=140759
Local and state officials will join MoDOT staff for three dedication ceremonies Dec. 19:
* 10 a.m. at Bates County Route AA/E north of Adrian (along U.S. 71 west outer road south of interchange) ...
* 12 Noon at Vernon County Route E near Milo south of Nevada (along U.S. 71 east outer road north of interchange) ...
* 2 p.m. at 30th Road Overpass near Lamar and Lamar Heights ..."

Bad weather forced at least the noon Route E interchange ribbon cutting ceremony indoors, but three more steps toward I-49 made official yesterday (photo of Route E interchange ribbon cutting with story):
http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1796384.html

Quote
Despite an impromptu change of venue, city, county and state elected officials as well as Missouri Department of Transportation representatives and transportation advocates were on hand to dedicate the new road work and hear from speakers about the progress of the project and the hoped for benefits of having an interstate run through Vernon County.
Foul weather forced a ribbon cutting and dedication ceremony scheduled for noon, Monday, to be moved from the site of the new U.S. 71 Highway and Route E interchange near Milo to the MoDOT maintenance facility, located on the West Outer Road on the north edge of Nevada.
Becky Baltz, the Southwest District engineer for MoDOT welcomed the group and told them about the four new interchanges -- at E, DD, D, and M -- and one new overpass in the county and how those improvements and the designation of the highway as I-49 next year will lead to improved safety. Baltz also said that a designated interstate is "a major reason businesses come to an area." ...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 20, 2011, 10:23:26 AM
Looks like MoDOT is getting some of the signposts ready:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6529006065_50799b328a_z_d.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6529006035_df2c9454b8_z_d.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on December 22, 2011, 12:18:51 AM
Looks like MoDOT is getting some of the signposts ready:

Awesome!  I love MODOT!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 22, 2011, 09:25:27 PM
Looks like MoDOT is getting some of the signposts ready:

Awesome!  I love MODOT!

PennDOT did the same thing in getting ready for I-99 to be posted along US-220.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on January 05, 2012, 07:46:37 PM
UPDATE:
 307th St Crossover closing Tuesday  (http://modot.org/kansascity/newrelease/District4Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=144401)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on January 20, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
MoDot has a new site for the Kansas City District about converting 71 hwy to I-49.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: adt1982 on January 22, 2012, 11:06:57 AM
MoDot has a new site for the Kansas City District about converting 71 hwy to I-49.

Here's the link, since you didn't bother to share it.

http://www.modot.mo.gov/kansascity/major_projects/I-49.htm
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on January 22, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
^ Also, the Kansas City District Converting 71 to I-49 (http://modot.mo.gov/kansascity/major_projects/I-49.htm) page has not replaced, and is in addition to, the Southwest District Converting Route 71 to I-49 (http://modot.mo.gov/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm) page.  MoDOT now provides two pages to look for I-49 information updates about the conversion.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Desert Man on January 23, 2012, 12:49:05 AM
I-49 currently is in Louisiana from I-10 to the south near Lafayette to the I-20 in Shreveport/Bossier city, but I'm sure the I-49 moniker extends up to Texarkana and proposal to make I-49 cross the Arkansas Ouachitas to connect with I-40 in Fort Smith or Fort Chaffee, Ark., but the I-540 crosses the Fayetteville-Rogers-Springdale area of Northwest Arkansas and the Missouri Ozarks to meet near Joplin connecting with I-44 and old route 66 in Baxter Springs, Ks. and Miami, Ok. Time to rename I-540 to I-49, but a Kansas City-Joplin interstate is a no brainer: Joplin is rebuilding from last year's F-5 tornado and I'm sure Wal-Mart in Bentonville, Ark. supports this interstate highway plan.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on January 27, 2012, 10:52:04 AM
Look like the final project is about to begin: Route TT
http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=147899
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on January 29, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
The part of Watkins from Gregory Boulevard to 55th Street would be a parkway, with lower speed limits and traffic lights at 55th and 59th streets and at Gregory ...
Beth Wright, district engineer for the Missouri Department of Transportation, says the parkway portion of the road now carries twice the number of vehicles for which it was designed, which results in ... problems [i.e. delays]  
Later this year, Wright said, the three intersections are to be included in Operation Green Light, which aims to improve traffic flow by coordinating signals. The Watkins signals and their counterparts on Prospect Avenue will be re-timed, which should minimize delays on Watkins.
MoDOT and Operation Green Light will need to collect data and analyze it before looking at alternatives to the present design, Wright said.
It would be good to have the stoplights removed
As human being I just want those death traps removed at the three lights.

This article (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/23/3387905/kc-police-study-suggests-red-light.html) focuses on a study that suggests the installations of red light cameras in Kansas City do not add to safety.  However, in regard to the Watkins intersections, the article does mention that wrecks more than doubled at the 59th Street intersection in the two years after the cameras appeared (the largest increase in Kansas City) and that injury accidents increased at the 55th Street intersection after installation of the cameras:

Quote
The intersection of Bruce R. Watkins Drive and 55th Street has seen more injury accidents despite the presence of red-light cameras there ...
Wrecks more than doubled at 59th Street and Bruce R. Watkins Drive, the intersection that posted the largest increase.

I'm not an engineer, but I believe a high number of accidents will continue to occur as long as the lights exist and traffic remains at or increases from double the road's capacity.  But I suppose the politics are still too volatile ...

I enjoyed this comment to the article from mickey4727:

Quote
I'm forced through the 71 highway "gauntlet of death" every single day.  You've got a choice when cruising at speed and the lights turn yellow, and more often than not the choice that is forced on drivers is to increase speed and hope to clear the cams' field of view before it's too late.  There's just not enough time to stop.  The extra pressure this causes on the minds of drivers increases the risk of accident, if anything.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on January 29, 2012, 10:57:40 PM
71 will be a freeway one day.  Yeah, I know there is a court settlement and all but court rulings are overruled every day.  The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood.  It might not be built in my lifetime, but it will be built one day barring something like a total economic collapse or a nuclear war or some other catastrophe.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on January 31, 2012, 10:09:28 AM
You just got to love progress! At least Missouri is in full "build now" mode when it comes to I-49. However, I feel that the southern extension to New Orleans should be a reroute of I-10 and most of the current I-10 from Baton Rouge to Lafayette should become an extension of I-12, but that's another story.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 31, 2012, 11:26:37 AM
I-49 currently is in Louisiana from I-10 to the south near Lafayette to the I-20 in Shreveport/Bossier city, but I'm sure the I-49 moniker extends up to Texarkana and proposal to make I-49 cross the Arkansas Ouachitas to connect with I-40 in Fort Smith or Fort Chaffee, Ark., but the I-540 crosses the Fayetteville-Rogers-Springdale area of Northwest Arkansas and the Missouri Ozarks to meet near Joplin connecting with I-44 and old route 66 in Baxter Springs, Ks. and Miami, Ok. Time to rename I-540 to I-49, but a Kansas City-Joplin interstate is a no brainer: Joplin is rebuilding from last year's F-5 tornado and I'm sure Wal-Mart in Bentonville, Ark. supports this interstate highway plan.

Sorry, but other than the Missouri segment from I-44 to I-435, I-49 won't be going anywhere past I-20 in Shreveport until they finish I-49 from Texarkana to I-220 (or even to I-20 via the ICC), and until they complete the Texarkana-Fort Smith segments. Or, when the BVB is completed, then they can replace I-540 shields with I-49 from Fort Smith northward.


Anthony
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 01, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
Signs going up! (http://modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=148419)

I'll be heading to Springfield in a couple weeks, so I'll try to get a progress report along the way.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 01, 2012, 12:23:30 PM
Signs going up! (http://modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=148419)
I'll be heading to Springfield in a couple weeks, so I'll try to get a progress report along the way.
I hope you can find some of the ones turned away from view so you can hike around & get some great pics!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 02, 2012, 03:58:10 PM
Signs going up! (http://modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=148419)
After yesterday's announcement, I became curious about MoDOT's long-term plans for the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and how it relates to I-49.
I called the Southwest District Office, eventually spoke with one of the engineers, and had a great conversation.  First, MoDOT is probably looking at a ten-year horizon before a location study would be initiated.  The current thinking is that three primary options for the eventual I-49 routing exist for the location study:

1. Keep the I-44/I-49 overlap; however, this would necessitate an upgrade for the eastern I-44/I-49 interchange (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.082030138841056~-94.31241321563719&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) from a cloverleaf to a directional interchange.

2. Use the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and upgrade the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.179268394311464~-94.35022163391112&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) by finding a way to remove the presence of traffic signals at interchange ramps at US 71/MO 171/MO 96 near Carthage, as well as upgrade the MO 171/ I-49 interchange.

3. Build a new terrain connection that would basically be a "straight line" from the 171 "bend" west of the Hwy 96 interchange to the "90 degree bend" north of Carthage. (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.19089303191218~-94.35344028472899&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC)

Other options could manifest themselves during the course of the study.  Again, this all is on a loooooong term horizon.

Finally, the engineer confirmed MoDOT's commitment to building the Bella Vista Bypass once Arkansas starts making some good progress.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 02, 2012, 04:55:18 PM
The 44/49/Mo 59 Interchange is antiquated. Bridgehunter shows it was built circa 1960, renovated 2003.

Ideally, the whole thing needs to be rebuilt, but at the bare minimum, it needs a flyover from EB 44 to NB 49 and SB 49 to EB 44. Yet, I don't see it happening anytime soon. It almost looks like MoDOT has misplaced some of their priorities: they pushed hard for I-49, yet neglected to account for existing interchanges.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on February 03, 2012, 08:57:11 AM
Has the rationale for why 49 was chosen for this corridor instead of 29 ever been explained?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 03, 2012, 09:58:17 AM
Has the rationale for why 49 was chosen for this corridor instead of 29 ever been explained?

FWIW, here's the MoDOT rationale from the MoDOT Southwest District "Converting Route 71 to I-49" page: (http://modot.mo.gov/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm)

Quote
Why is I-49 being used as the designation instead of I-29 or I-35?
Congress designated the I-49 corridor from Kansas City to Shreveport, La., in federal transportation legislation. The corridor will connect to the existing I-49 between Shreveport and Lafayette in Louisiana.
Plus, I-49 fits within the interstate naming conventions of north/south interstates utilizing odd numbers, with the assigned numbers growing higher as they move from west to east.
In Missouri, I-49 falls between existing I-35 in Kansas and Oklahoma and I-55 in eastern Missouri and Illinois.

EDIT

I have seen legislation designating the Kansas City-Shreveport corridor as High Priority Corridor 1 ("HPC 1"), but I have not seen any legislation mandating that HPC 1 be signed as "I-49".  Does any such legislation exist?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 03, 2012, 10:07:03 AM
Has the rationale for why 49 was chosen for this corridor instead of 29 ever been explained?

It's been explained as an extension of I-49 in Louisiana.

I'm sure when it was originally built, no one gave much thought to it continuing north of Shreveport. I doubt MoDOT ever considered extending I-29 south, either. And when AHTD built the 540 extension, there was no consideration of it eventually becoming I-49 as it originally ended on the north side of Fayetteville (and it was originally planned to be a new US 71)

The 71 corridor between I-44 and Kansas City has been posted for many years as a "future" Limited Access roadway. Somewhere along the way, MoDOT may have decided that making 71 a full-fledged Interstate would expedite upgrading it.

Now if one wants a simple answer, maybe that would be politics?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on February 03, 2012, 10:28:36 AM

The 71 corridor between I-44 and Kansas City has been posted for many years as a "future" Limited Access roadway. Somewhere along the way, MoDOT may have decided that making 71 a full-fledged Interstate would expedite upgrading it.

Now if one wants a simple answer, maybe that would be politics?


Certainly seems to be a decision based on what fits the grid.

That aside, I guess my next question would be when the decision was made to apply an interstate designation to 71, either before or after the decision to extend 49.  It would seem to me, without getting too fictional, to extend 29 down to Ft Smith since it already exists in Missouri and 49 north of Texarkana is a long way from completion.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 03, 2012, 11:24:24 AM

The 71 corridor between I-44 and Kansas City has been posted for many years as a "future" Limited Access roadway. Somewhere along the way, MoDOT may have decided that making 71 a full-fledged Interstate would expedite upgrading it.

Now if one wants a simple answer, maybe that would be politics?


Certainly seems to be a decision based on what fits the grid.

That aside, I guess my next question would be when the decision was made to apply an interstate designation to 71, either before or after the decision to extend 49.  It would seem to me, without getting too fictional, to extend 29 down to Ft Smith since it already exists in Missouri and 49 north of Texarkana is a long way from completion.

My guess is AFTER the decision to extend I-49.  49 was designated as a High Priority Corridor from Shreveport to Kansas City in 1991 and 71 just happens to be in that corridor. ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 03, 2012, 12:00:54 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 03, 2012, 12:20:48 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 03, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights.
Those lights are an abomination.

Speaking of the stoplights, this video report (http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/02/highway-71-changing-to-interstate-49/) includes the question "Where Will I-49 End?" in its title and seems to address the Bruce R. Watkins Drive stoplights in its opening:

Quote
Within the year, Highway 71 will become Interstate 49, but the interstate project will stop before hitting the stoplights on the way to downtown Kansas City ....

However, the report does not directly mention Bruce R. Watkins Drive.

The article accompanying the video report provides this link to a live webcam at "I-49 and 307th Street". (http://oxblue.com/pro/open/modot/i49)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on February 03, 2012, 01:56:41 PM
MoDot has some new info about I 49 signs starting to put up but will be covered for now. Also there is a news release on the work in Cass  County on 71 Hwy. They have a webcam for view of the the work at 307 th.  http://www.modot.org/kansascity/newrelease/District4News.shtml
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 03, 2012, 02:38:33 PM
I went 71 north to I-435 then up Blue Parkway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on February 04, 2012, 04:51:53 AM
MoDot has some new info about I 49 signs starting to put up but will be covered for now. Also there is a news release on the work in Cass  County on 71 Hwy. They have a webcam for view of the the work at 307 th.  http://www.modot.org/kansascity/newrelease/District4News.shtml

I saw the MoDOT press release about the I-49 signage.  Kudos to them, definitely.  And the SW MO district engineer verifying that they can construct their part of I-49 south of Pineville (Bella Vista Bypass) gives me more hope.  I just wish AHTD would figure out what exactly they are doing wrong, and get their act together.  Something is seriously flawed. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 04, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
Speaking of the stoplights, this video report (http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/02/highway-71-changing-to-interstate-49/) includes the question "Where Will I-49 End?" in its title and seems to address the Bruce R. Watkins Drive stoplights in its opening:

Quote
Within the year, Highway 71 will become Interstate 49, but the interstate project will stop before hitting the stoplights on the way to downtown Kansas City ....

However, the report does not directly mention Bruce R. Watkins Drive.

I-49 will end at I-435:  this is clear from the plans for the signing contract that is currently under construction.  The old South Midtown Freeway (whose continuation northward to the downtown freeway loop is Bruce R. Watkins Drive) will also remain just US 71.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 04, 2012, 09:15:16 AM
MoDot has some new info about I 49 signs starting to put up but will be covered for now. Also there is a news release on the work in Cass  County on 71 Hwy. They have a webcam for view of the the work at 307 th.  http://www.modot.org/kansascity/newrelease/District4News.shtml

I saw the MoDOT press release about the I-49 signage.  Kudos to them, definitely.  And the SW MO district engineer verifying that they can construct their part of I-49 south of Pineville (Bella Vista Bypass) gives me more hope.  I just wish AHTD would figure out what exactly they are doing wrong, and get their act together.  Something is seriously flawed.  


AHTD is flawed. In simple terms, they are reactive instead of proactive. They fix problems after they happen instead of before.  The Fayetteville Bypass is a good example, but a story for another time.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 04, 2012, 11:04:13 PM
Speaking of the stoplights, this video report (http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/02/highway-71-changing-to-interstate-49/) includes the question "Where Will I-49 End?" in its title and seems to address the Bruce R. Watkins Drive stoplights in its opening:

Quote
Within the year, Highway 71 will become Interstate 49, but the interstate project will stop before hitting the stoplights on the way to downtown Kansas City ....

However, the report does not directly mention Bruce R. Watkins Drive.

I-49 will end at I-435:  this is clear from the plans for the signing contract that is currently under construction.  The old South Midtown Freeway (whose continuation northward to the downtown freeway loop is Bruce R. Watkins Drive) will also remain just US 71.

South Midtown Freeway?  What is that?  Where did you hear that name?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on February 05, 2012, 12:00:30 AM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Court decisions that allow a portion of a highway project to be built while keeping restrictions on its design take years to be overturned. Can anyone cite a similar situation where something similar to the originally proposed highway has been built, overturning a court decision?

Watkins Drive (U.S. 71) in Kansas City will become a full freeway that can receive an interstate designation about the time I-35E in St. Paul loses its 45 mph speed limit and truck restrictions.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 05, 2012, 05:05:51 AM
South Midtown Freeway?  What is that?  Where did you hear that name?

The South Midtown Freeway is the name for the freeway relocation of US 71 along a line which is essentially a southward extension of the east leg of the downtown freeway loop.  The 1951 expressway plan called for it to be built from downtown to Swope Parkway; I-435 was not planned at this point.  Later plans called for full freeway standard all the way from downtown to I-435 and beyond.  The only part of this freeway that was actually built, before the court decision that made Bruce R. Watkins Drive possible, was a short length from I-435 northward to 75th Street which was labelled as "South Midtown Freeway" on Kansas City street maps for decades.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 06, 2012, 08:42:36 AM
This article (http://www.demo-mo.com/2012/02/04/v-print/16918/i-49-update-draws-capacity-audience.html) discusses near-term improvements to the I-49 corridor that are scheduled to occur after signage goes up:

Quote
Future plans are also under way to improve the 155th Street interchange in Belton. That project, along with a proposed new interchange at 211th Street in Peculiar, has yet to be funded.
Harrisonville is also working with the state and county to study a proposed interchange at Rock Haven Road. Meanwhile, design has begun on a reconfiguration project at the M-291 Highway interchange in Harrisonville, which will be funded in part by a transportation development district. The M-291 project will begin in the next year.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 06, 2012, 09:04:42 AM
Sad to say a horrific accident aka a T-Bone of a school bus at the Gregory light will change things. That light is set up that bad and it's only a matter of time. One person in KC holds the power to change things and he is a Congressman who could get it done with a stroke of a pen. EC controls all the neighborhoods in that area and would be able to by sheer will turn them around. As I have said before I am positive those lights will go away. Too many accidents and too much death at those lights.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 06, 2012, 07:24:17 PM
If somebody sues the state because of an accident at these lights and wins, does that court ruling trump the previous court ruling?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on February 06, 2012, 08:13:29 PM
Sad to say a horrific accident aka a T-Bone of a school bus at the Gregory light will change things. That light is set up that bad and it's only a matter of time. One person in KC holds the power to change things and he is a Congressman who could get it done with a stroke of a pen. EC controls all the neighborhoods in that area and would be able to by sheer will turn them around. As I have said before I am positive those lights will go away. Too many accidents and too much death at those lights.

I'm not so sure of that...the residents of that neighborhood and the judge who created that consent decree would have some say in whether or not it can be modified to allow for freeway construction. It's not all on Rep. Cleaver.

As much as I'd like to see that segment completed and upgraded, I have to cede to the community's wishes.


Anthony
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 06, 2012, 08:17:13 PM
If somebody sues the state because of an accident at these lights and wins, does that court ruling trump the previous court ruling?

Only if enough people complain that MoDOT or the KC Street Department should "do something" to make it safer. Then it will take at least 5 years to come up with a workable solution, which will be out of date and 5 more years to come up with something else ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on February 06, 2012, 09:04:40 PM
Where is 3 trails Crossing? One of the articles on MODOT site says I 49 signs will start at 3 Trails and end where the Bella Vista Bypass will Start. I can't find where it intersects 71 Hwy.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 06, 2012, 09:25:52 PM
Sad to say a horrific accident aka a T-Bone of a school bus at the Gregory light will change things.
If somebody sues the state because of an accident at these lights and wins, does that court ruling trump the previous court ruling?

I reviewed an old post in this thread and it appears that everyone acknowledges that the lights create an unsafe situation, but it will literally take a "Big One" like a T-boned school bus resulting in fatalities for MoDOT to work up the courage to approach the court for a "safety exception" to the consent decree.  Apparently, high percentages of crashes and non-fatal injuries are not enough:  :paranoid:

In an approximate 10-minute "KC Currents" broadcast, the interviewed MoDOT representative acknowledges that Watkins Drive has a much higher average number of "rear-enders" than other highways in Missouri, BUT, in terms of fatalities, the freeway north of 55th has the highest fatality rate.  For this reason, it seems like MoDOT cannot approach the court for a "safety" exception to the court order:

KCUR FM Audio - "No Change In Store For Controversial Bruce R. Watkins Drive" (http://kcur.org/post/no-changes-store-controversial-bruce-r-watkins-drive)

... According to the Missouri Department of Transportation, the stretch between 55th Street and Gregory averages 277 accidents per hundred million vehicle miles, higher than the state average of 170 accidents for similar roadway types ....
To paraphrase the representative from the community when questioned about the "rear-ender" statisitcs, "If you don't want an accident; don't drive the road".

EMAIL RESPONSE FROM KCSTAR WATCHDOG

Over the years, we have monitored accidents there precisely because of the stop lights, but we have not developed an ironclad case that it is a death zone ... There was a recent horrific crash on Gregory Boulevard at Watkins Drive that killed a little boy .... The death zone idea is intriguing ....
ARF!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 06, 2012, 09:28:09 PM
Where is 3 trails Crossing? One of the articles on MODOT site says I 49 signs will start at 3 Trails and end where the Bella Vista Bypass will Start. I can't find where it intersects 71 Hwy.

It used to be "Grandview Triangle": where US 71/I-435/I-470 (and US 50) all meet
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on February 07, 2012, 10:29:11 AM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Court decisions that allow a portion of a highway project to be built while keeping restrictions on its design take years to be overturned. Can anyone cite a similar situation where something similar to the originally proposed highway has been built, overturning a court decision?

Watkins Drive (U.S. 71) in Kansas City will become a full freeway that can receive an interstate designation about the time I-35E in St. Paul loses its 45 mph speed limit and truck restrictions.
Which could take years, but hopefully not too many. The freeway loop of I-29/I-35/I-70/I-670 is a far better endpoint for this Interstate-to-be than I-435.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 07, 2012, 10:41:56 AM
Where is 3 trails Crossing? One of the articles on MODOT site says I 49 signs will start at 3 Trails and end where the Bella Vista Bypass will Start. I can't find where it intersects 71 Hwy.

"Three Trails Crossing" is the new lipstick-on-a-pig name for the Grandview Triangle, where US 71 crosses I-435 and where the I-49 overlap on US 71 will have its northern end.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on February 07, 2012, 01:28:47 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Court decisions that allow a portion of a highway project to be built while keeping restrictions on its design take years to be overturned. Can anyone cite a similar situation where something similar to the originally proposed highway has been built, overturning a court decision?

Watkins Drive (U.S. 71) in Kansas City will become a full freeway that can receive an interstate designation about the time I-35E in St. Paul loses its 45 mph speed limit and truck restrictions.
Which could take years, but hopefully not too many. The freeway loop of I-29/I-35/I-70/I-670 is a far better endpoint for this Interstate-to-be than I-435.

If a key reason to extend 49 is to allow for better truck movement from New Orleans to Central and Western Canada then ending it at 435 makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: pj3970 on February 07, 2012, 02:14:58 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Court decisions that allow a portion of a highway project to be built while keeping restrictions on its design take years to be overturned. Can anyone cite a similar situation where something similar to the originally proposed highway has been built, overturning a court decision?

Watkins Drive (U.S. 71) in Kansas City will become a full freeway that can receive an interstate designation about the time I-35E in St. Paul loses its 45 mph speed limit and truck restrictions.
Which could take years, but hopefully not too many. The freeway loop of I-29/I-35/I-70/I-670 is a far better endpoint for this Interstate-to-be than I-435.

If a key reason to extend 49 is to allow for better truck movement from New Orleans to Central and Western Canada then ending it at 435 makes a lot of sense.

Well, couldn't they just extend 49 over 435 to end at either 70 by the stadiums, 35 by Worlds of Fun, or 29 by KCI
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on February 07, 2012, 03:56:55 PM
I also am positive that enough folks will realize the folly of those lights. Like I said before when I lived in KC. I avoided those lights and that stretch at all costs.

When I lived at 71 and Bannister, I would take Prospect to work when I had to be at work at 8 because it was actually quicker than 71.  Those lights are an abomination.  One day they will be gone.  The court settlement will be overturned.  The demographics of neighborhoods change.
Court decisions that allow a portion of a highway project to be built while keeping restrictions on its design take years to be overturned. Can anyone cite a similar situation where something similar to the originally proposed highway has been built, overturning a court decision?

Watkins Drive (U.S. 71) in Kansas City will become a full freeway that can receive an interstate designation about the time I-35E in St. Paul loses its 45 mph speed limit and truck restrictions.
Which could take years, but hopefully not too many. The freeway loop of I-29/I-35/I-70/I-670 is a far better endpoint for this Interstate-to-be than I-435.

If a key reason to extend 49 is to allow for better truck movement from New Orleans to Central and Western Canada then ending it at 435 makes a lot of sense.

Well, couldn't they just extend 49 over 435 to end at either 70 by the stadiums, 35 by Worlds of Fun, or 29 by KCI
That would be another way to go.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: lamsalfl on February 08, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
http://www.neoshodailynews.com/news/x720910752/Highway-to-change-name-soon

Article about US 71 being renamed I-49 in Missouri in 2012.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: lamsalfl on February 08, 2012, 11:17:10 PM
It makes sense to use I-49 and not I-29 as the extension number because 49 fits better into the grid, and I-49 passes through far larger/important cities (including KC) and ports than I-29. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on February 09, 2012, 09:25:08 AM
It makes sense to use I-49 and not I-29 as the extension number because 49 fits better into the grid, and I-49 passes through far larger/important cities (including KC) and ports than I-29. 
You are correct on that count! Then I-29 could be used for a corridor further west, serving Wichita, Topeka, Sioux Falls, Fargo and Grand Forks if a new freeway through northern Kansas and eastern Nebraska is ever built.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: pj3970 on February 09, 2012, 10:44:36 AM
It makes sense to use I-49 and not I-29 as the extension number because 49 fits better into the grid, and I-49 passes through far larger/important cities (including KC) and ports than I-29. 
You are correct on that count! Then I-29 could be used for a corridor further west, serving Wichita, Topeka, Sioux Falls, Fargo and Grand Forks if a new freeway through northern Kansas and eastern Nebraska is ever built.

I agree on that 100%...besides the way I-35 runs through the region, numbering it I-49 fits the grid much better than I-29
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: lamsalfl on February 09, 2012, 01:54:45 PM
Not to be a buzzkill, but there will likely never be a great renumbering of the system where I-29 would be removed from hundreds of miles of interstate for a new terrain route.  That said, it's obvious I'm in support of I-49 being used from the NOLA to Lafayette segment.  In fact, I'm fine with it being labelled east/west even though it's an odd number.  Sometimes, things are what they are.  Now small reroutes like I-85 around the southside of Montgomery, sure, that's much easier.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on February 09, 2012, 06:51:59 PM
It makes sense to use I-49 and not I-29 as the extension number because 49 fits better into the grid, and I-49 passes through far larger/important cities (including KC) and ports than I-29. 
You are correct on that count! Then I-29 could be used for a corridor further west, serving Wichita, Topeka, Sioux Falls, Fargo and Grand Forks if a new freeway through northern Kansas and eastern Nebraska is ever built.
Sounds as if you're referring to an extension and renumbering of I-135. I just don't see a justification for turning U.S. 81 into an interstate-quality freeway from Salina to York. I do agree I-29 is the route that's out of place, even given the eastward tilt of I-35; it should have been I-31 or 33, leaving a little system expansion room.  I would find turning it into I-49 more than a little jarring, though, since you go way east into Wisconsin and find I-43.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on February 10, 2012, 09:44:03 AM
It makes sense to use I-49 and not I-29 as the extension number because 49 fits better into the grid, and I-49 passes through far larger/important cities (including KC) and ports than I-29. 
You are correct on that count! Then I-29 could be used for a corridor further west, serving Wichita, Topeka, Sioux Falls, Fargo and Grand Forks if a new freeway through northern Kansas and eastern Nebraska is ever built.
Sounds as if you're referring to an extension and renumbering of I-135. I just don't see a justification for turning U.S. 81 into an interstate-quality freeway from Salina to York. I do agree I-29 is the route that's out of place, even given the eastward tilt of I-35; it should have been I-31 or 33, leaving a little system expansion room.  I would find turning it into I-49 more than a little jarring, though, since you go way east into Wisconsin and find I-43.
That's exactly what I was referring to! In fact, I made a proposal based on that route (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4651.0) in the Fictional Highways section.

And don't forget I-39 that also exists in Wisconsin, as well as Illinois.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 10, 2012, 10:56:24 AM
Would this work? How about blocking the cross roads in KC on the Watkins. No Interchanges but block the cross roads to form a solid flow of traffic. Just a ideal to kick around.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on February 12, 2012, 09:49:56 AM
Hey, J.N., do you have the plans for the I-49 shields that are going up? Any word on state name/no?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on February 12, 2012, 11:16:27 AM
Scott--I believe the independent-mount I-49 shields will have the state name while the guide-sign shields won't, because that is what is shown in the relevant MoDOT standard plan sheets (http://www.modot.mo.gov/business/standards_and_specs/documents/90302.pdf).

MoDOT, like most state DOTs, does not consider route shields to be designable signs, so design details for shields tend to be in the standard plans if they have not been hived out to a separate sign drawings book.  Unlike Kansas DOT, MnDOT, and a number of other state DOTs, MoDOT does not bind the relevant standard plans with a construction plans set, so the big I-49 signing contract basically has sign panel details only for the large guide signs plus sign summary sheets giving quantities and locations for independent-mount shield assemblies.  The contractor will almost certainly be instructed to refer to the (separate) standard plans to fabricate these.

A slight fly in the ointment is that the current version of the highway standard plan sheets became effective only 11 days ago.  I don't know if the contractor will be expected to use the old standard plan sheets because those were what was in force at the time the contract was awarded.  I also don't know if the design for the independent-mount Interstate shield changed as part of this revision.  I suspect not, but I cannot confirm since MoDOT does not seem to archive obsolete standard plan sheets online.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: oscar on February 12, 2012, 11:52:39 AM
Would this work? How about blocking the cross roads in KC on the Watkins. No Interchanges but block the cross roads to form a solid flow of traffic. Just a ideal to kick around.
Wouldn't that further slice up the community through which the Watkins passes, by making it harder to cross the Watkins from one side to the other?  Wasn't that effect on the community part of the opposition to making the Watkins a freeway in the first place?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 12, 2012, 01:06:06 PM
Would this work? How about blocking the cross roads in KC on the Watkins. No Interchanges but block the cross roads to form a solid flow of traffic. Just a ideal to kick around.
Wouldn't that further slice up the community through which the Watkins passes, by making it harder to cross the Watkins from one side to the other?  Wasn't that effect on the community part of the opposition to making the Watkins a freeway in the first place?

That's what they said.  Even though bridges would have linked the community much better than at grades.  The real reason this road was built like it was is so Cleaver could "stick it to whitey."  Comments like "this is a white man's road going through a black man's neighborhood" is proof of this.  Funny, but I've always seen plenty of African Americans use this highway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on February 14, 2012, 08:23:59 AM
Well spoken Bugo. Sad thing is more and more black folks are dying on the Watkins from those intersections. I dislike those lights so much if they were replaced by Interchanges. I wouldn't mind if they didn't extend I-49 to downtown KC. Gotta get rid of those deathtraps.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 26, 2012, 05:13:24 PM
As of today, there are NO I-49 signs yet along US 71 between Pineville and I-44 at Joplin, nor along I-44 between 71 South and 71 North.

I will attempt to check 71 from I-44 to Carthage later in the week.

UPDATE:
There are 2/10 mile markers beginning at I-44. They are currently turned 90 degrees away from traffic.

I didn't note all of them between I-44 and Carthage, but only a few:

MM 46.6 I-44 West/US 71 South

MM 47.2 Cedar Road

MM 50.6 Fir Rd/ Route HH

MM 53.4 Central Ave / MO 96/MO 571/MO 171

There are no independent markers or exit signs at this time.

Still NO mile markers south of I-44.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bearcat97 on March 11, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
They have added the 2/10 mile markers turned away from traffic in the Grandview/Belton area just south of Kansas City and are warning people of delays next week to add more signage.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on March 23, 2012, 10:01:29 AM
(This just in from MoDOT)

Two New Overhead Highway Signs
Going Up on I-44 and Route 71 in Joplin
 

Jasper County -- Two new trusses and large highway signs will be put at the I-44/Route 71-South interchange in Joplin on Thursday, March 29, and the installation will slow traffic temporarily on the two highways, the Missouri Department of Transportation said.

The new trusses and signs will be installed:

* Over the eastbound lanes of I-44 just west of Route 71 at Mile Marker 11.

* Over northbound lanes of Route 71 between Jasper County Route FF and I-44.

The signs and trusses replace those that were blown down during the May 22, 2011, EF5 tornado that devastated parts of Joplin.

The signs attached to the trusses over the highways will include new I-49 shields. However, the shields will remain covered until MoDOT receives federal approval, anticipated later this year, to convert Route 71 to Interstate 49 between Pineville and Kansas City.

Traffic Impacts

The Missouri State Highway Patrol will slow traffic while contractor workers, using a large crane and other equipment, will lift each sign truss assembly into place and bolt it to a concrete footing.

Here's the timeline for Thursday, March 29:

* At about 9:30 a.m., eastbound I-44 traffic will be slowed beginning at the Range Line Road interchange at Mile Marker 8. Traffic also may have to be stopped briefly.

* At about Noon, northbound Route 71 traffic will be slowed beginning north of Newton County Route V. Traffic also may have to be stopped briefly.

Drivers are urged to be alert, watch for work zone signs and expect slow-moving traffic on both eastbound I-44 and northbound Route 71 during the installation process.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on April 01, 2012, 10:16:56 AM
We now know I-44 West will be Exit 39 along I-49
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/7033944055_47962b3903_z_d.jpg)


This the only Exit Number that has been posted so far.  Contrary to what the Press Releases said, the 49 shields are NOT covered up: they are simply missing at this time, as witnessed by this sign along EB 44:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/7033944073_24eb1cfa1f_z_d.jpg)

There are still no mileposts south of I-44, though there are survey flags. However, there are plenty of mileposts north of I-44
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6120/6866217844_2a74cfa79e_z_d.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on April 02, 2012, 02:24:03 AM
Great pics!  Missouri uses some intricate sign bridges...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on April 02, 2012, 02:37:54 AM
What is fascinating with that first pic is how the "through" route (to MO 249) is marked as "Exit 39B" while the single lane off-ramp that will carry US 71/Future I-49 isn't numbered at all.

I assume that the plan is to continue I-49 along existing MO 249 when it is finally upgraded to full freeway standards (and the MO249/MO 171 gap is filled properly?  Or, will I-49 be permanently routed along I-44 and US 71 North? If the latter is the case, then that 71/44/249 interchange will need some flyovers and at least one double-lane ramp.

Anthony 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2012, 12:10:07 PM
Great pics!  Missouri uses some intricate sign bridges...

They're just a shorter version of Oklahoma's pre-monotube trusses, but with single instead of double vertical support poles. I consider the box gantry design that Kansas/Arkansas/New York use to be more intricate than that.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on April 02, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
What is fascinating with that first pic is how the "through" route (to MO 249) is marked as "Exit 39B" while the single lane off-ramp that will carry US 71/Future I-49 isn't numbered at all.

I assume that the plan is to continue I-49 along existing MO 249 when it is finally upgraded to full freeway standards (and the MO249/MO 171 gap is filled properly?  Or, will I-49 be permanently routed along I-44 and US 71 North? If the latter is the case, then that 71/44/249 interchange will need some flyovers and at least one double-lane ramp.

Anthony 

I think someday 49 will follow MO 249. If not, the Carthage/Diamond exit will also need some serious work.

Note there is no 39A. Some us are thinking if it will be 32nd St/Route FF.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on April 03, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/al5QR.jpg?1)

Yep.  :D
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: lamsalfl on April 03, 2012, 11:45:22 PM
Odd for a Louisiana roadgeek to see I-49 in another state!  It's kinda like it's my state's road!  But, I'm glad this is getting extended north into other states.  LA only stands to gain from the extension.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bassoon1986 on April 04, 2012, 11:17:51 AM
Odd for a Louisiana roadgeek to see I-49 in another state!  It's kinda like it's my state's road!  But, I'm glad this is getting extended north into other states.  LA only stands to gain from the extension.

I know! I see that picture with I-49 milemarker 47 and I think I'm somewhere near Marksville or Bunkie!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on April 07, 2012, 09:45:31 AM
Odd for a Louisiana roadgeek to see I-49 in another state!  It's kinda like it's my state's road!  But, I'm glad this is getting extended north into other states.  LA only stands to gain from the extension.

I know! I see that picture with I-49 milemarker 47 and I think I'm somewhere near Marksville or Bunkie!

Well, at least you're getting more of I-49, instead of having an only-in-Texas one like I-45 or I-27.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mcdonaat on April 29, 2012, 08:15:02 AM
Odd for a Louisiana roadgeek to see I-49 in another state!  It's kinda like it's my state's road!  But, I'm glad this is getting extended north into other states.  LA only stands to gain from the extension.

I know! I see that picture with I-49 milemarker 47 and I think I'm somewhere near Marksville or Bunkie!

Well, at least you're getting more of I-49, instead of having an only-in-Texas one like I-45 or I-27.
We still got I-12! I'm still confused on exit tabs and mile markers, since they will have to be replaced once 49 is extended to New Orleans. But we would be lost if the first exit on 49 was Exit 110
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 11, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
This opinion piece (http://www.examiner.net/opinions/x43412944/An-interstate-we-need-and-one-we-don-t) calculates the average cost of an I-49 sign to be $2,868.85:

Quote
In February this year, MoDOT’s Southwest District announced a project to install 1,220 new Interstate 49 signs beginning along U.S. 71 between Pineville and Interstate 435 on the south edge of Kansas City. These signs would be covered or turned away from view until MoDOT receives final approval from the Federal Highway Administration for the I-49 designation (horse, barn?). The prime contractor is a company from Indianapolis and its low bid was $3.5 million for this signing project.
MoDOT calls many of the signs “emergency reference markers.” We call them mileage markers. From Harrisonville to Grandview, MoDOT has placed them every two-tenths of a mile on both sides of the road. If you do the math and divide $3.5 million dollars by the 1,220 signs, MoDOT paid on average $2,868.85 for each sign. Just think about having an accident in the middle of Grandview. You’ll be able to see one of the $2,868.85 mileage markers and be able to say exactly where you are when you call 911.

Not everyone is happy about I-49 coming to Missouri.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kharvey10 on May 11, 2012, 02:34:45 PM
and MoDOT isn't even trying to hide some of the signs.  It wasn't the case on I-64 back 25 years ago - there were places where the signs weren't even installed many years after that approval, and there is at least two interchanges that still got missing signs (not on the mainline but on MO 141 near MoDOT district headquarters out of all places).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on May 11, 2012, 05:49:33 PM
I think the arithmetic is flawed.  Enhanced location reference markers cost nowhere near $3,000 each.  Contractors bid on signing contracts by the square foot of sign panel, sometimes subdivided according to substrate type (depending on how the state DOT defines signing-related bid items), and the bulk of the cost of I-49 signing comes from the large sign panels.  If the sign sheeting in use costs $40 per square foot, for example, an average-sized 8' x 10' sign panel costs $3200 in sheeting alone.  In contradistinction, the cost I have heard for a typical milepost is around $300 all in (both panel and post--installation is not usually broken out separately; the contractor is expected to factor installation costs into the unit price he quotes for the bid item that corresponds to the thing being installed).  An enhanced location reference marker would cost more because of the larger sign panel area, but not that much more--say $400 or $500 as an upper bound?

$3.5 million is not that much for a signing contract of this size (approximately 100 sheets worth of designable signs, nearly all of them large panel signs).  Presumably a fairly high proportion of these signs replace existing ones which either were or were near to becoming life-expired.  Signing contracts which replace small guide signs (generally aluminum sheet signs only, like enhanced location reference markers) tend to be much cheaper, around $100,000 or so.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on May 11, 2012, 05:54:14 PM
This opinion piece (http://www.examiner.net/opinions/x43412944/An-interstate-we-need-and-one-we-don-t) calculates the average cost of an I-49 sign to be $2,868.85:

Defective article, as I don't think it is distinguishing between I-49 shields, new guide signs, and the mile markers.  As for the markers being a waste of money, it would serve the author right to break down or be in a crash on a stretch of highway in Missouri that does not have any readily available reference markers.  Those markers make it much easier to report potholes anyway.

What was the safety record of the at grade intersections anyway?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on May 12, 2012, 03:01:38 AM
I'm a (sports) journalist. And that's a hack job. It's an opinion piece, so he's not obligated to get quotes but he ought to use some facts or at least use the ones he has in the proper way. Based on the fact that the byline includes "Submitted to the Examiner," he's probably not a real journalist. And the tone of the piece comes across to me more as an angry letter to the editor than any sort of journalism. The only valid points are Missouri's struggles with funding and Arkansas' inability to upgrade its portion of U.S. 71. Fine, those are fair points. But if he actually believes that the 2/10th-mile markers cost almost $2,900 each, then he's not qualified to write that article. If he knows darn well that's not likely but isn't going to be bothered to look up the facts, then he's manipulating his readers and that's unethical.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on May 12, 2012, 03:03:22 AM
This opinion piece (http://www.examiner.net/opinions/x43412944/An-interstate-we-need-and-one-we-don-t) calculates the average cost of an I-49 sign to be $2,868.85:

Defective article, as I don't think it is distinguishing between I-49 shields, new guide signs, and the mile markers.  As for the markers being a waste of money, it would serve the author right to break down or be in a crash on a stretch of highway in Missouri that does not have any readily available reference markers.  Those markers make it much easier to report potholes anyway.

What was the safety record of the at grade intersections anyway?

I can't imagine the south junction of 71 and MO-52 was very safe. Turn off 71, deal with a one-lane bridge right off the bat.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: oscar on May 12, 2012, 08:13:30 AM
I think the arithmetic is flawed.  Enhanced location reference markers cost nowhere near $3,000 each.  Contractors bid on signing contracts by the square foot of sign panel, sometimes subdivided according to substrate type (depending on how the state DOT defines signing-related bid items), and the bulk of the cost of I-49 signing comes from the large sign panels.  If the sign sheeting in use costs $40 per square foot, for example, an average-sized 8' x 10' sign panel costs $3200 in sheeting alone.  In contradistinction, the cost I have heard for a typical milepost is around $300 all in (both panel and post--installation is not usually broken out separately; the contractor is expected to factor installation costs into the unit price he quotes for the bid item that corresponds to the thing being installed).  An enhanced location reference marker would cost more because of the larger sign panel area, but not that much more--say $400 or $500 as an upper bound?

$3.5 million is not that much for a signing contract of this size (approximately 100 sheets worth of designable signs, nearly all of them large panel signs).  Presumably a fairly high proportion of these signs replace existing ones which either were or were near to becoming life-expired.  Signing contracts which replace small guide signs (generally aluminum sheet signs only, like enhanced location reference markers) tend to be much cheaper, around $100,000 or so.

The press release cited in the opinion piece (http://modot.mo.gov/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=148419) notes that the $3.5 million cost covers more than just the reference markers.  That seems to be where the arithmetic goes astray.

But even if making the markers is cheap, installing all of them (including figuring out the right locations, setting up temporary work zones, etc.) every 0.2 mile might make the markers part of the project a large fraction of the $3.5 million.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on May 12, 2012, 01:14:12 PM
But even if making the markers is cheap, installing all of them (including figuring out the right locations, setting up temporary work zones, etc.) every 0.2 mile might make the markers part of the project a large fraction of the $3.5 million.

In fact, it is not.  We do not have to guess at any of this because MoDOT makes bid results and bid tabulations available online.

The article is actually misleading in another respect--it says that MoDOT "announced" the signing job in February 2012.  In fact MoDOT advertised the contract for a letting date of October 21, 2011, under call number G01 (contract number 111021-G01):

http://www.modot.gov/business/contractor_resources/bid_opening_info/postBid.shtml?lettingDate=10%2F21%2F2011

(Unfortunately I cannot link to the PDF files directly because of the way these pages are coded.)

G01 is broken into two separate jobs, J4P1989D and J7P0825, each with its own plans set.  (The first digit is a district identifier that corresponds to one of the MoDOT districts as they existed before the 2011 reorganization.  "0" means pre-2011 District 10.)  The bid tabulations are broken down separately for each job.  The 1220 emergency reference markers the article cites (not even an accurate figure) is broken down into 166 for J4P1989D and 1176 for J7P0825, for a total of 1342.  MoDOT has an all-inclusive bid item for emergency reference markers (i.e., whatever the contractor bids for one unit of "emergency reference marker" is supposed to cover all the associated costs to the contractor of fabrication and installation, plus a certain element of profit for the contractor).

The low bid for 111021-G01 included unit bids of $243.68 under J4P1989D and $234.18 under J7P0825 for "emergency reference marker," for a total cost of $315,849.56 out of the $3.5 million low bid.

Bottom line:

*  Emergency reference markers comprise less than one-tenth of the contract value.

*  The article overstates the total cost of the emergency reference markers by factors of more than ten for both the District 4 and District 7 components of the contract.

The article is, in short, unmitigated twaddle.  I think Scott is correct in attributing authorship to a non-journalist.  My own guess is an angry anti-tax conservative.  Since the Examiner is an Independence/Blue Springs/Grain Valley suburban paper and rural and suburban papers in general tend to lean conservative, the article was probably an easy pitch to the Examiner's editors, who should nevertheless have fact-checked it more aggressively.

(I do have some experience writing newspaper opinion pieces since I was an opinion columnist for the KSU Collegian for a couple of semesters when I was doing my undergraduate degrees.  I know from personal experience that if I quoted facts in one of my opinion pieces, and my editor subsequently received a letter pointing out that these facts were wrong, I would be called into my editor's office to explain where I had sourced my facts and what checks I had done to ensure that they were correct.)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on May 12, 2012, 01:23:51 PM
So, are you going to send that in to the Examiner?  'Cause that would be awesome.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on May 12, 2012, 02:52:37 PM
Kphoger--I have followed up on your suggestion and sent a letter to the editor via email.  If they publish it, I will link to it here; if they do not publish it after a suitable interval (say one or two weeks), I will post it here.  I think it is more probable than not that they will not publish it because they have a 300-word limit (the letter I sent had about 325 words in total) and the principal burden of my letter is really a correction, although I added language to try to justify the I-49 upgrade from first principles (AADT above 10,000 VPD, small added cost of upgrades because long lengths of US 71 were already freeway, etc.).  The strapline I went with was something like "I-49 not only is affordable to Missouri, but is also a good buy."
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on May 12, 2012, 08:22:37 PM
Kphoger--I have followed up on your suggestion and sent a letter to the editor via email.  If they publish it, I will link to it here; if they do not publish it after a suitable interval (say one or two weeks), I will post it here.  I think it is more probable than not that they will not publish it because they have a 300-word limit (the letter I sent had about 325 words in total) and the principal burden of my letter is really a correction, although I added language to try to justify the I-49 upgrade from first principles (AADT above 10,000 VPD, small added cost of upgrades because long lengths of US 71 were already freeway, etc.).  The strapline I went with was something like "I-49 not only is affordable to Missouri, but is also a good buy."

I-49 in Missouri is a good value because most of it is already there.  In Arkansas between I-30 and I-40 it is going to be far, far more expensive to build it.  If Arkansas had gotten their act together and started building a new US 71 in the '70s (besides the Fayetteville bypass, which was originally a 2 lane highway with at grades) they wouldn't have to spend so much money building it.  But AHTD has never been accused of being progressive.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on May 14, 2012, 11:24:21 PM
Kphoger--I have followed up on your suggestion and sent a letter to the editor via email.  If they publish it, I will link to it here; if they do not publish it after a suitable interval (say one or two weeks), I will post it here.  I think it is more probable than not that they will not publish it because they have a 300-word limit (the letter I sent had about 325 words in total) and the principal burden of my letter is really a correction, although I added language to try to justify the I-49 upgrade from first principles (AADT above 10,000 VPD, small added cost of upgrades because long lengths of US 71 were already freeway, etc.).  The strapline I went with was something like "I-49 not only is affordable to Missouri, but is also a good buy."
The editorial seems to be typical of small-town newspaper policy (not dissimilar to the press local to me) in that it takes MoDOT to task for - actually building highways. I'm less taken aback by the criticism of improving U.S. 71 to interstate status, since the state is probably getting a little ahead of the actual need here, notwithstanding any federal funding currently available for the work. I was rather very surprised by the "I-70 is just fine between Kansas City and St. Louis" opinion, which stood in opposition to both expenditure of public funding and the use of tolling to improve what is, to all reports, a very truck-clogged interstate highway. I missed the explanation of how elves would do the work of improving the road at no cost to either taxpayers or users of the highway via tolls.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on May 14, 2012, 11:54:26 PM
I was rather very surprised by the "I-70 is just fine between Kansas City and St. Louis" opinion, which stood in opposition to both expenditure of public funding and the use of tolling to improve what is, to all reports, a very truck-clogged interstate highway. I missed the explanation of how elves would do the work of improving the road at no cost to either taxpayers or users of the highway via tolls.

I think the writer's point was rather that I-70 does not need to be widened at all, and that he would (and thinks the rest of us should) be prepared to accept anything up to, but not including, routine stop-and-go traffic on a rural freeway.  In a word:  mean-mindedness.

FWIW, I did a quick comparison of traffic volumes on I-70 and US 71 (future I-49), using MoDOT traffic volume maps.  (These are not stratified by vehicle type; I appreciate the high truck percentage on I-70 does make a difference.)  In rural areas I-70 is generally around 30,000-40,000 VPD with isolated counts of sub-20,000 VPD, while US 71 is generally 10,000-20,000 VPD with one isolated count of 9,911 VPD (as near to 10,000 VPD as makes no difference), higher counts in the rural areas near Joplin, and counts well above 20,000 in far southern Missouri near the planned Bella Vista Bypass.  US 71 does operate at a significantly better LOS than I-70, but the added cost of upgrading US 71 to Interstate is probably one to two orders of magnitude less than the cost of expanding I-70 to the extent that would be required to obtain the same LOS as US 71.

I have many unpleasant memories of I-70 in Missouri and I have been following the I-70 widening saga since the FEIS was published around 2002.  I-70 is a nuisance that needs to be taken care of.  However, the sheer cost of the proposed expansion does tend to overwhelm arguments that smallish local diseconomies should be tolerated in favor of uniform provision.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sr641 on May 15, 2012, 05:11:43 PM
Im exited about Interstate 49 being signed in Mo.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on May 15, 2012, 05:15:40 PM
Im exited about Interstate 49 being signed in Mo.
Better than being entered, I suppose.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2012, 05:26:26 PM
Must be an easily exitable person.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sr641 on May 15, 2012, 05:52:10 PM
Must be an easily exitable person.

I am when it comes to new highways.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2012, 05:56:07 PM
Where's the emoticon for 'over your head'?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on May 15, 2012, 06:15:11 PM
Where's the emoticon for 'over your head'?

(http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/a/airplane-emoticon-jet.gif)
Title: J N Winkler's Excellent Letter
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 02:51:59 PM
Kphoger--I have followed up on your suggestion and sent a letter to the editor via email.

J N Winkler's letter to the editor - "Recent Column on I-49 Missed the Point" (http://www.examiner.net/opinions/x2138755363/Recent-column-on-I-49-missed-the-point) has been published.  A superb effort:

Quote
By Jonathan Winkler
Submitted to The Examiner
Posted May 16, 2012 @ 12:45 AM

Wichita, KS — To the editor:

In his May 9 guest column, “An interstate we need and one we don’t,” blasting the Missouri Department of Transportation for waste and accusing it of playing a “shell game” in western Missouri, Fred Reiss makes a number of false and misleading claims about Interstate 49.
First, he claims I-49 is bogus because it does not cross from Missouri into Arkansas. “Interstate” refers to the system as a whole and does not imply that every individual highway in it crosses a state line. Many, such as I-17 and I-19 in Arizona, lie wholly within one state.
Reiss also claims to “do the math” on MoDOT’s recent I-49 signing contract, by dividing the $3.5 million low bid by 1,220 emergency reference markers to conclude that each reference marker costs $2,868.85. This analysis is flawed. In the low bid, the total cost of reference markers was $315,849.56, with the cost per marker ranging from $243.68 near Kansas City down to $234.18 farther south. These amounts can be verified by referring to the bid tabulations for MoDOT contract number 111021-G01, which MoDOT has posted online. The majority of the $3.5 million cost of the I-49 signing contract arises from large sign panels, many of which would have had to be replaced anyway to maintain adequate visibility at night.
MoDOT is not without need to reform, but to imply that upgrading U.S. 71 to I-49 is a waste of money is to play a shell game on citizens who vote, but do not necessarily have the time to inform themselves of the issues.
Engineers consider that upgrading highways to four-lane divided begins to be justified when average daily traffic volumes exceed 10,000 vehicles. U.S. 71 south of Kansas City exceeds this threshold, and converting it to an interstate costs little because long lengths of it are already freeway.
Bottom line, I-49 not only is affordable to Missouri, but is also a good buy.
Title: Missouri Bella Vista Bypass Construction in MoDOT's 2013-17 Draft STIP?
Post by: Grzrd on May 28, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
In looking at MoDOT's 2013-17 Draft STIP (http://contribute.modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2013-2017/districtconstruct/documents/1_Projects_006.pdf), I noticed what appears to be a Bella Vista Bypass project slated for the 7/2014 to 6/2015 time period (page 11/27 of pdf):

(http://i.imgur.com/D7vFQpX.jpg)

Is my interpretation of this project correct, or is it simply an upgrade to the existing US 71?  I'm hoping AHTD got MoDOT to "bite" when it went through the letting process for the the second Arkansas Bella Vista Bypass project.
Title: Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass
Post by: Grzrd on May 29, 2012, 03:57:43 PM
In looking at MoDOT's 2013-17 Draft STIP (http://contribute.modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2013-2017/districtconstruct/documents/1_Projects_006.pdf), I noticed what appears to be a Bella Vista Bypass project slated for the 7/2014 to 6/2015 time period (page 11/27 of pdf)

I spoke with a MoDOT individual today and he confirmed that the above 2015 project in the Draft STIP is for the Bella Vista Bypass. However, it is contingent on whether Arkansas will have construction under way to the state line by that time. As he put it, there is no need to build it to a dead-end and have it sit for a long time. MoDOT already has the money set aside and will build the entire four lanes even if Arkansas has to stay at two lanes for a while.  I believe that there is also an element of MoDOT trying to "encourage" AHTD to start construction to the state line.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on May 30, 2012, 08:54:58 PM
Heck MODOT "gave" Arky their share from Tiger II grants. Heck a new BVB would give Bobby Petrino a new place to ride his bike around.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 30, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Heck
Heck

hold your breath and swallow twice.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on May 31, 2012, 09:20:02 PM
I was on 71/Future 49 between Nevada and Kansas City this afternoon.



Pictures forthcoming... hopefully this weekend.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bjrush on June 18, 2012, 04:09:57 PM
I snapped a few on my way to Omaha. The first one kind of sucks but you get the idea. I am bumfuzzled as to why when adding the I-49 bracket they didn't replace the MO 291. Third picture is just north of the stub ramp for the Bella Vista Bypass. Fourth is a turned away emergency reference marker (not costing $2,868.85)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7097/7396434740_b6f1926983_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8003/7396436010_9d251195cb_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7396434206_75deea4210_z.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/537053_10151402579610262_932832616_n.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 18, 2012, 04:22:01 PM
so no state-named 49 shields posted yet in Missouri?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 18, 2012, 05:46:14 PM
The southern-most exit posted is Exit 5 (Route H/ Pineville). There are numbered exits posted to just north of Carthage, resuming again at Archie but ending at Three Trails Crossing.

There is an (unfinished) End 49 sign just past Three Trails, but mileposts continue to Bannister Rd.

There is a possible signing error at 71/96 at Carthage. It appears the I-49 sign will have a "Straight Ahead" arrow rather than a left turn arrow on WB 96. I hope to investigate further sometime this week.

There is no exit assembly yet, but the mile marker for NB 71 at Bus 71/Rt K /"To West 54" at Nevada is MM 101.0 at the ramp.

I will have photos on Flickr either next weekend or sometime next week. I have "drive-by" photos of nearly every exit and close-ups of a few.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on June 19, 2012, 02:54:20 AM
so no state-named 49 shields posted yet in Missouri?

If there are any, they won't be posted until I-49 becomes official. That's expected to be in December.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 19, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
This is probably the only Arkansas I-49 shield, and likely the first one ever made:

(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u126/bugo348/sinez/routemarkerI-49.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 22, 2012, 12:11:08 AM
A few sights from Future I-49 taken during the last couple weeks:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/7417260392_b1da1012d9_c_d.jpg)
Northern Terminus at Three Trails Crossing

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/7417258630_8b16b7ef20_c_d.jpg)
First posted exit on NB 71 near Pineville

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7258/7417263882_b43d720f4c_c_d.jpg)
Temporary sign for Bus 71 at Carthage (to be replaced by Bus Loop 49)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/7417262994_4974f964e8_c_d.jpg)
US71/ MO 7/ MO 2 near Harrisonville
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on July 01, 2012, 02:26:40 AM
So how many approximate miles does this leave to be constructed between the north end of I-540 and the south end of soon-to-be I-49?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on July 01, 2012, 08:35:18 AM
So how many approximate miles does this leave to be constructed between the north end of I-540 and the south end of soon-to-be I-49?

I don't have exact numbers handy at the moment, but I'd say 15 miles...maximum 20.
 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on July 02, 2012, 05:49:40 AM
So how many approximate miles does this leave to be constructed between the north end of I-540 and the south end of soon-to-be I-49?

I don't have exact numbers handy at the moment, but I'd say 15 miles...maximum 20.

I looked in an atlas and straight through on 71 it's 14 miles. Guess the bypass will make it longer by a good bit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on July 03, 2012, 01:23:28 PM
So how many approximate miles does this leave to be constructed between the north end of I-540 and the south end of soon-to-be I-49?

I don't have exact numbers handy at the moment, but I'd say 15 miles...maximum 20.
 

Sad that a state DOT (AHTD or otherwise) can't come up with enough $$$ for a 15-20 mile, 4-lane project to bridge a gap in a major regional interstate.  Especially when the economic long-term benefits really outweigh any short-term costs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on July 05, 2012, 06:05:23 AM
Quote

Sad that a state DOT (AHTD or otherwise) can't come up with enough $$$ for a 15-20 mile, 4-lane project to bridge a gap in a major regional interstate.  Especially when the economic long-term benefits really outweigh any short-term costs.

Lol... Welcome to Arkansas.  They can't even fix (much less, plan) I-540/Future I-49 in NWA.  It's really sad.
Title: US 71 Transit Study in Kansas City/ Grandview Area
Post by: Grzrd on July 11, 2012, 12:49:34 PM
71 will be a freeway one day.  Yeah, I know there is a court settlement and all but court rulings are overruled every day.  The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood.  It might not be built in my lifetime, but it will be built one day barring something like a total economic collapse or a nuclear war or some other catastrophe.

I suspect that the possible upgrade of Bruce R. Watkins Drive to an interstate-grade facility is not even part of the agenda, but there is a photo of Bruce R. Watkins Drive on a page describing July 12 and July 17 Open Houses for the US 71 Transit Study (http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/projects/us71transitstudy.aspx), and it is conceivable that an upgrade could work in conjunction with transit goals:

Quote
Study Area
The U.S. 71 corridor begins in the downtown loop of Kansas City, Mo., and runs south along U.S. 71/Bruce R. Watkins Dr. through Kansas City and Grandview to M-150 near the Cass County border. This heavily traveled corridor includes not only the U.S.71 highway facility, but also Prospect Avenue and adjacent railroad assets.
....
Project Goals
The purpose of the study will be to identify the preferred transit alternative that best meets current and future transportation needs while also helping to shape, support and focus future economic development and revitalization of activity centers along the corridor. MARC, KCATA, the city of Kansas City, Mo., and Jackson County intend to build extensively off of past work as well as the Commuter Corridor Alternatives Analysis currently underway. The team will use the study results to help develop a more comprehensive regional commuter corridor system and secure funding for implementation and potentially apply for federal funds.

It seems to me that a freeway upgrade could be part of the solution to meet the Project Goals; maybe the day for a US 71 freeway will be sooner than we think.

EDIT

This article indicates that the study is limited to commuter rail options (http://www.examiner.net/news/x1258253781/Transit-plans-at-open-house-today-Tuesday):

Quote
Planning is further along for the first two lines seen as the beginning of a metro transit system, probably based on commuter rail service. One line is from Kansas City into Independence, Blue Springs, Grain Valley and Oak Grove, and one is from Kansas City into Raytown and Lee’s Summit. But local officials have won federal money to pursue study of the Grandview line as well. As initially proposed two and a half years ago, there would eventually be six lines, probably meeting at Union Station, serving much of metro, including the airport.

Still, if they studying how to revitalize neighborhoods along the corridor, then it seems like the study would need to at least mention current and future anticipated traffic flow along US 71 and all of the potential methods of addressing the traffic flow.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on July 11, 2012, 03:42:24 PM
We can only hope a upgrade is coming. It will be a day of celebration in KC when those lights go away.
Title: More Lights in Kansas City?
Post by: Grzrd on July 20, 2012, 08:27:13 PM
I suspect that the possible upgrade of Bruce R. Watkins Drive to an interstate-grade facility is not even part of the agenda, but there is a photo of Bruce R. Watkins Drive on a page describing July 12 and July 17 Open Houses for the US 71 Transit Study (http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/projects/us71transitstudy.aspx), and it is conceivable that an upgrade could work in conjunction with transit goals
We can only hope a upgrade is coming. It will be a day of celebration in KC when those lights go away.

At least one member of the Stakeholder Advisory Panel, in a July 19 meeting, expressed a hope to add lights to the corridor (http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/pdf/us71/US71-SAP-Agenda7-19-12.pdf) (page 2/136 of pdf):

Quote
2. I would prefer a Bus BRT and a Light Rail line right down the US 71 corridor (Red and Blue). I think most of the congestion on 71 is from the Grandview, Belton and even Harrisonville traffic coming into the City. When it reaches Bruce Watkins Drive, there is a pinch point. I would hate to see this “grand boulevard” turned into a freeway with more roadway, whether it is designated for transit or not. Everyone adjacent to Bruce Watkins Drive uses US 71 for a different purpose than those commuters, and therefore deserve a separate mode of transportation. These two alternatives should go from downtown (and maybe one day cross the river into North Kansas City) to Bannister Road/Bannister Mall.
3. The final alternative is the DMU on the South Kansas City rail line to Bannister, Grandview and Belton/Richard Gebauer. To make this line competitive with driving your car, I think they need to make up that time for stops by going from Bannister directly into downtown. If we could remove these commuters from their cars, then we could relieve congestion at the pinch point and then even re-boulevard US 71 north of 51st (a big dream I know, but aren’t we deconstructing highways across the country?!) to make it more permeable and stitch back these communities that were ripped apart.

I wonder if John Norquist is observing this process?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on July 20, 2012, 08:37:42 PM
Sounds like this guy has been smoking the wacky terbacky.  If they build a rail line to Bannister Road, nobody, and I mean NOBODY will use it.  Kansas City is way too sprawled out for rail transit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on July 21, 2012, 09:56:20 AM
Anyone that wants to add lights should be slapped.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 01, 2012, 08:32:50 PM
there are plenty of mileposts north of I-44
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6120/6866217844_2a74cfa79e_z_d.jpg)

Interesting directional signs in photo accompanying this brief article (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1876881.html):
(http://i.imgur.com/QRk2B.jpg)

A little bit of roadgeek irony with the top sign having I-49 4 miles away and the bottom sign having I-49 9 miles away ...  :happy:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on August 01, 2012, 09:37:59 PM
Interesting directional signs in photo accompanying this brief article (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1876881.html):
(http://i.imgur.com/QRk2B.jpg)

PING Scott Nuzum - this is your neck of the woods, do you know who took the photo ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on August 05, 2012, 12:08:25 AM
Interesting directional signs in photo accompanying this brief article (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1876881.html):
(http://i.imgur.com/QRk2B.jpg)

PING Scott Nuzum - this is your neck of the woods, do you know who took the photo ;)

In fact, that's our sister paper and it looks like they forgot the photo credit in the online article. It was one of either Lynn Wade, Ralph Pokorny or James Campbell.

I went to Nevada last night and got some pix of my own to upload a bit later.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on August 05, 2012, 12:35:39 AM
Okay, here are some of the pix from Friday:

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/376769_10151998455015331_827982007_n.jpg)
Exit 101, Austin Boulevard. Note the Bus. 71 patch.

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/311571_10151998454830331_476236208_n.jpg)
Exit 102B, Osage Boulevard. Notice no exit tab on the U.S. 54 exit sign in the background (Since U.S. 71 curves just past that point, that sign is to the left in the photo, by the cell phone tower).

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s720x720/561378_10151998454665331_2135047106_n.jpg)
Exit 103, Highland Ave.

Of note:
* No posts set up awaiting I-49 shields on the side roads at any of the exits.
* Not all the exit tabs are up. Highland Ave. was the only northbound one I saw and as noted, no tab on the U.S. 54 exit on the southbound side.
* If you go up the west outer road from the Highland Ave. exit, you'll see the entrance for the MoDOT shop. I went up that road because it was the only place wide enough to turn around. The old signs are being stored there. Since the shop was still open, I shied away from getting into position to get a shot of those signs. Probably could have gotten them if I could have a found a good place to park and used the zoom.  :-/

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 07, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Breaking news:
327th Street overpass near Archie is expected to open Thursday by 7pm.

http://www.modot.org/kansascity/newrelease/District4Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=173849
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 08, 2012, 09:56:23 AM
Was looking at the video cam on Monday of the interchange. Yes it's far enough along to open with shoulder work, final grading and line painting left.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 08, 2012, 10:41:25 AM
A couple photos from Neosho taken this past weekend:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7112/7734456742_cd2242ae0d_c_d.jpg)
Bus 71/Bus 60 near the "split". This is another "patch" sign for Business 71
You can also see abandoned sign footings from a previous sign

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7138/7734456542_c6e1ed6fda_c_d.jpg)
Not a "patch" sign, yet directly across from the other sign
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on August 08, 2012, 06:26:18 PM
Whew that grass looks crispy.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 08, 2012, 09:33:40 PM
Whew that grass looks crispy.

There's a small drainage ditch running along the east side of the road, but it's mostly dried up.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on August 08, 2012, 09:56:47 PM
The empty signs awaiting the blue shield are as far south as the U.S. 71 Lanagan and Pineville (where I-49 will temporarily end) turnoffs.  OH, if Arkansas could have gotten their act together mid-last decade on funding their portion of the BV bypass... :-|
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 08, 2012, 10:25:03 PM
The empty signs awaiting the blue shield are as far south as the U.S. 71 Lanagan and Pineville (where I-49 will temporarily end) turnoffs.  OH, if Arkansas could have gotten their act together mid-last decade on funding their portion of the BV bypass... :-|

We lost a lot of highway funding after John Paul Hammerschmidt retired.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on August 09, 2012, 01:26:21 AM
The empty signs awaiting the blue shield are as far south as the U.S. 71 Lanagan and Pineville (where I-49 will temporarily end) turnoffs.  OH, if Arkansas could have gotten their act together mid-last decade on funding their portion of the BV bypass... :-|

We lost a lot of highway funding after John Paul Hammerschmidt retired.

Hammerschmidt retired in 1993 and people were still having to drive narrow old 71 to get to Fayetteville. That bacon he brought home sure seemed pretty lean.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 09, 2012, 04:44:05 PM
The empty signs awaiting the blue shield are as far south as the U.S. 71 Lanagan and Pineville (where I-49 will temporarily end) turnoffs.  OH, if Arkansas could have gotten their act together mid-last decade on funding their portion of the BV bypass... :-|

We lost a lot of highway funding after John Paul Hammerschmidt retired.

Hammerschmidt retired in 1993 and people were still having to drive narrow old 71 to get to Fayetteville. That bacon he brought home sure seemed pretty lean.

The final Environmental Impact Statement was released in 1986 and work began in 1987. 1995 is when work on the tunnel began. Don't forget: AHTD had no experience with a project on this scale so it took a long time to get it done, especially since it crossed some of the roughest terrain in the state.
Title: Missouri I-49 Designation Set for Dec. 12
Post by: Grzrd on September 02, 2012, 11:32:35 PM
This article (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/02/3793979/us-71-south-to-become-i-49.html) reports that the official designation will take place at noon on Dec. 12:

Quote
.... The 180-mile stretch of U.S. 71 from south Kansas City to Joplin and beyond will become Interstate 49 once the last few finishing touches are completed by early November. The official designation is scheduled for noon on Dec. 12, as in 12-12-12-12 ....
Trucks make up 30 percent of the traffic on U.S. 71 now, according to the Missouri Department of Transportation, and the route is the second busiest freight artery out of Kansas City. That traffic is expected to increase once the highway becomes an interstate ....
Bruce R. Watkins Drive will not become part of Interstate 49 because the at-grade crossings and stoplights at Gregory Boulevard, and 59th and 55th streets will remain. I-49 will run south from Interstate 435 ....

The article does not indicate the location of the ceremony.

edit - MoDOT also makes it clear that they are waiting on Arkansas before they build Missouri's section of the Bella Vista Bypass:

Quote
The section of highway south of Joplin is complete and ready for interstate designation as far as the small town of Pineville, about five miles from the Arkansas border. At that point, the highway is supposed to connect someday to a bypass around the town of Bella Vista, just across the state line in Arkansas.
Missouri was prepared to build its portion of the bypass, estimated at $40 million, until Arkansas said it did not have the money to do its part. That’s when the Missouri highway commission decided to shift its focus and money to the section north of Joplin.
“We do not want to build a four-lane freeway that dead-ends at the state line,” said Sean Matlock, MoDOT’s manager for the I-49 project.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mcdonaat on September 03, 2012, 12:15:55 AM
Anyone had any luck with MoDOT? I just sent an email for the exit list and mile point list for I-49 in the state.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 03, 2012, 08:10:30 AM
Anyone had any luck with MoDOT? I just sent an email for the exit list and mile point list for I-49 in the state.

Richie has an exit list for I-44 to KC.  I've got the numbers for Pineville-Joplin, but haven't done anything with the info. Exit 5 will be Route H/ Pineville . This will be the first exit along the completed segment of I-49.

39A Route FF / 32nd St (Joplin)
39B MO 249 North/Joplin
39C I-44 West / Tulsa

Of course, the perfect spot for a ribbon cutting would be Exit 12, but it doesn't exist. :(

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on September 03, 2012, 11:29:09 AM
Anyone had any luck with MoDOT? I just sent an email for the exit list and mile point list for I-49 in the state.

Richie has an exit list for I-44 to KC.  I've got the numbers for Pineville-Joplin, but haven't done anything with the info. Exit 5 will be Route H/ Pineville . This will be the first exit along the completed segment of I-49.

39A Route FF / 32nd St (Joplin)
39B MO 249 North/Joplin
39C I-44 West / Tulsa

Of course, the perfect spot for a ribbon cutting would be Exit 12, but it doesn't exist. :(



Well, I got the entire exit list on my sandbox in wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Intelati/Sandbox/1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Intelati/Sandbox/1)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 03, 2012, 11:53:09 AM

Well, I got the entire exit list on my sandbox in wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Intelati/Sandbox/1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Intelati/Sandbox/1)

Very good! You're missing Exit 101, though: Bus 49/ Route K Nevada .
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 03, 2012, 12:14:53 PM
Since we are road geeks and solve all road problems. Where should the I-49 rest areas/welcome centers/weigh stations go? There is a weigh station south of KC already but it's real old and outdated. If MODOT wants a Interstate in my mind they should build rest areas/welcome centers/weigh stations to match current Interstate standards. The drive is rather flat and boring if you haven't made it before so rest areas would be welcomed. I don't know the current cost estimates for rest areas/welcome centers/weigh stations so if any onecan guess thank you.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on September 03, 2012, 02:39:17 PM
A welcome center somewhere around Pineville is in order, but rest areas are probably a waste of money. The idea of a rest area comes from the time before people built gas stations and restaurants at every freeway interchange. Now we don't need rest areas because private businesses fill that niche.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 03, 2012, 04:41:50 PM
A welcome center somewhere around Pineville is in order, but rest areas are probably a waste of money. The idea of a rest area comes from the time before people built gas stations and restaurants at every freeway interchange. Now we don't need rest areas because private businesses fill that niche.

The article mentions the "need" for several more truck stops along the highway. The only truck stop I know between Pineville & Joplin is the Flying J.  There is a Kum n Go "fuel stop" at US 60 in Neosho, but it's a pain to get in and out of.

Nevada has a Pilot and there's a Flying J near Peculiar, I think.   Carthage would be good spot, I think. Build it across from the Fastrip ;)

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on September 03, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
Flying J in Peculiar is infamous for having the cheapest gas in the KC area. I still see a need for 1 south bound and 2 North Bound rest areas(includes welcome center). Now MoDot has become anti rest area and will probably won't build any even including a welcome center. MoDot still should build the BVB to the state line now. It's cheaper now than 3-5 years down the road when road building rates increase. On a side note they just redecked the exit at Peculiar as it was in horrid shape. KC still needs work at Richards Geubar and a six laning to the North Cass Parkway. I can only dream of those damn lights going away. Heck I would trade a 45mph speed limit for the lights going away.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on September 03, 2012, 07:01:26 PM
A welcome center somewhere around Pineville is in order, but rest areas are probably a waste of money. The idea of a rest area comes from the time before people built gas stations and restaurants at every freeway interchange. Now we don't need rest areas because private businesses fill that niche.

Bunk.  Rest areas still provide a need and a function along the freeway.  If properly placed (such as before a city), they double as map stops.  Gas stations are not always dependable, and restaurants look at you weird if you use the washroom but not ordering the food.  Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on September 03, 2012, 07:09:46 PM
Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.

Yes they do.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on September 03, 2012, 07:11:48 PM
Whenever the BVB is finished and I-49 becomes a serious shipping corridor I'm sure that Flying J, TA, or Loves will pick up on the need for more truck stops and put in some locations.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't do a welcome center, especially with the money they spent to redo the one in Joplin recently. (Maybe it would have been a better idea to move that one to the future I-44/49 interchange and kill two welcome centers with one stone.)

Bunk.  Rest areas still provide a need and a function along the freeway.  If properly placed (such as before a city), they double as map stops.  Gas stations are not always dependable, and restaurants look at you weird if you use the washroom but not ordering the food.  Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.

A "map stop"? You can use any off ramp for that, or the shoulder, or a business parking lot. (Nobody is going to waste the time to come out and chastise you for taking up a parking spot for a few minutes.) I can't imagine people need to stop and consult maps all that frequently that it's worth spending several million to have a place dedicated to that activity.

Most interchanges with a gas station will have more than one. If the proprietor of one is being an asshat to travelers you can just go to the next one. Only once have I ever had a problem using a bathroom at a gas station without making a purchase. That was in Big Cabin, which is already a known asshat factory. Most of the time gas station clerks don't even seem to be cognizant of what any individual customer is doing since they're busy running the till or cleaning or whatever.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on September 03, 2012, 07:34:12 PM
I don't feel bad about stopping at McDonald's or other burger joints to take a piss if I'm on the road.  I do feel bad about going into privately owned gas stations and just using the loo so I always try to buy a coke or something.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on September 03, 2012, 07:35:53 PM
Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.

Yes they do.

Nope.  Most gas stations require a purchase to use the bathroom, and you'll get funny looks if you don't buy something.  When I went to North Dakota in 2011, I used the rest areas along I-29 instead of spending money on cokes (I had a case of Coke in a cooler that I took with me.)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on September 03, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
Whenever the BVB is finished and I-49 becomes a serious shipping corridor I'm sure that Flying J, TA, or Loves will pick up on the need for more truck stops and put in some locations.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't do a welcome center, especially with the money they spent to redo the one in Joplin recently. (Maybe it would have been a better idea to move that one to the future I-44/49 interchange and kill two welcome centers with one stone.)

Bunk.  Rest areas still provide a need and a function along the freeway.  If properly placed (such as before a city), they double as map stops.  Gas stations are not always dependable, and restaurants look at you weird if you use the washroom but not ordering the food.  Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.

A "map stop"? You can use any off ramp for that, or the shoulder, or a business parking lot. (Nobody is going to waste the time to come out and chastise you for taking up a parking spot for a few minutes.) I can't imagine people need to stop and consult maps all that frequently that it's worth spending several million to have a place dedicated to that activity.

Most interchanges with a gas station will have more than one. If the proprietor of one is being an asshat to travelers you can just go to the next one. Only once have I ever had a problem using a bathroom at a gas station without making a purchase. That was in Big Cabin, which is already a known asshat factory. Most of the time gas station clerks don't even seem to be cognizant of what any individual customer is doing since they're busy running the till or cleaning or whatever.

Yes, a map stop.  That's why some states (i.e. Michigan) put them before major junctions.  It's not to look at your map, but rather, to look at the maps and information they have there.  That's something not everyone will have.  They have information pertaining to construction, hotels, etc.

As for gas stations, I'd rather stop at a rest area or service area, or even a wayside than go to a gas station and be looked at funny for not making a purchase, or being told "no gotta bathroom".  They do not fill that niche.  Rest areas, waysides, and service areas do.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 03, 2012, 08:49:02 PM
Flying J in Peculiar is infamous for having the cheapest gas in the KC area. I still see a need for 1 south bound and 2 North Bound rest areas(includes welcome center). Now MoDot has become anti rest area and will probably won't build any even including a welcome center.

News to me. And here I thought Arkansas was anti-Rest Area.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on September 03, 2012, 08:50:38 PM
In Florida, I believe the law (or FDOT policy?) says that if it's on the logo signs, you can poo there, though a quick look turns up nothing.

This is true in Maine for gas stations only: http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/rules/17/229/229c206.doc
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on September 03, 2012, 09:20:02 PM
Private businesses DO NOT fill that niche.

Yes they do.

Nope.  Most gas stations require a purchase to use the bathroom, and you'll get funny looks if you don't buy something.  When I went to North Dakota in 2011, I used the rest areas along I-29 instead of spending money on cokes (I had a case of Coke in a cooler that I took with me.)

Never had that problem.

I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 03, 2012, 10:11:31 PM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

I've been in too many gas stations/c-stores with nasty restrooms. Better McDonald's, BK, or Wendy's.  Kum & Go, I rarely have a problem, though Flying J/Pilot is a roll of the dice.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on September 03, 2012, 11:50:34 PM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

You have a better chance of being shot in a robbery at a gas station than to be a victim of a crime at a rest stop.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 04, 2012, 09:43:46 AM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

You have a better chance of being shot in a robbery at a gas station than to be a victim of a crime at a rest stop.

But I can't top off my caffeine levels at a Rest Area ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on September 04, 2012, 10:05:18 AM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

You have a better chance of being shot in a robbery at a gas station than to be a victim of a crime at a rest stop.

Sure about that?  I've never been accosted at a gas station.  I have at a rest stop.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: nexus73 on September 04, 2012, 10:44:10 AM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

You have a better chance of being shot in a robbery at a gas station than to be a victim of a crime at a rest stop.

But I can't top off my caffeine levels at a Rest Area ;)

You can get cookies and coffee at the rest stop on I-5 about 50 miles north of the Washington-Oregon border.  Volunteers provide the goodies and they encourage you to take a safety break!  I wish this was the case at rest stops all over the nation. 

Rick
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 04, 2012, 11:50:34 AM


Sure about that?  I've never been accosted at a gas station.  I have at a rest stop.

yay, small sample sizes!

I once was accosted sitting at a Sonic drive-in.  let's burn them all down! 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on September 04, 2012, 03:19:25 PM
Speaking of burning things, nice straw man there.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on September 04, 2012, 03:48:21 PM
I've never, not once, had anyone at a gas station or fast food chain look at me funny for using the bathroom only.  Quite the opposite, I've had more than a few smile and point me in the right direction.  I look at it this way:  gas stations are there to provide services to the motorist, and servies include water for the windshield, air for the tires, and bathrooms for potty breaks and diaper changes.  Some gas stations have free air running all the time, while most require a purchase first; but, if I'm told I can't wash the windows or use the bathroom without spending money first, then I'm not going back to that gas station again.  We have a wide selection of gas stations in this country, and I'll choose to spend my money at the ones that don't do their best to nickle and dime me.

I personally almost never plan stops at rest areas.  The only times we stop at them are when we can't make it to the next planned stop without peeing, changing a diaper, cleaning something up, etc.  Often, we'll just take the next exit instead; if it has no services, we'll just take care of business on the shoulder of the ramp (OK, unless my wife has to pee).  I see the main function of rest areas as providing a place to take a nap; many states don't even permit that.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on September 04, 2012, 06:23:07 PM
I much prefer a clean, busy gas station to some unpatrolled rest area that smells like it doesn't have running water.

You have a better chance of being shot in a robbery at a gas station than to be a victim of a crime at a rest stop.

But I can't top off my caffeine levels at a Rest Area ;)
Pennsylvania was giving out coffee according to the VMS on I-84 yesterday.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on September 04, 2012, 06:59:06 PM
I do admit, having rest stops is a nice feature. Illinois has an especially nice system of them. And it was a pleasant surprise to find them on a two-lane state highway in Michigan (M-28, to be precise). I do utilize them occasionally when available.

But I don't think that it provides a good value for the money for the state involved. Even after construction costs are paid we still have to pay for the landscaping, cleaning and maintenance of any buildings, and to send cops by to make sure nothing stupid is going on after dark. I don't think the millions of dollars is a good investment just so I can avoid the disapproval of a minimum wage employee (who, speaking from experience as a former fast food manager, will often generally disapprove of anyone who enters the building at all since it means they have to work).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on September 04, 2012, 07:09:25 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on September 04, 2012, 07:18:51 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
The job creators at exits will complain (which is why FHWA doesn't allow non-grandfathered ones on Interstates, I think).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: amroad17 on September 04, 2012, 07:58:56 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
The job creators at exits will complain (which is why FHWA doesn't allow non-grandfathered ones on Interstates, I think).
Besides, the cost of any items would be $.50-$1 above what you would find at restaurants or gas stations at the exits.  In fact, some current rest areas sell the 20 oz. vending beverages about 25 cents more than if you stopped at a "gas mart" at an exit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on September 04, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
The job creators at exits will complain (which is why FHWA doesn't allow non-grandfathered ones on Interstates, I think).
Besides, the cost of any items would be $.50-$1 above what you would find at restaurants or gas stations at the exits.  In fact, some current rest areas sell the 20 oz. vending beverages about 25 cents more than if you stopped at a "gas mart" at an exit.

However, many service areas are not more expensive than off the tollway.  In fact, they seem to compete rather well with the off-tollway services (speaking from my experiences with the ISTHA Oases).  They also don't seem to discourage off-tollway services.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on September 04, 2012, 08:57:51 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
The job creators at exits will complain (which is why FHWA doesn't allow non-grandfathered ones on Interstates, I think).
Besides, the cost of any items would be $.50-$1 above what you would find at restaurants or gas stations at the exits.  In fact, some current rest areas sell the 20 oz. vending beverages about 25 cents more than if you stopped at a "gas mart" at an exit.

However, many service areas are not more expensive than off the tollway.  In fact, they seem to compete rather well with the off-tollway services (speaking from my experiences with the ISTHA Oases).  They also don't seem to discourage off-tollway services.

The Kansas Turnpike is hit-or-miss with gas prices.  Some days, they're comparable, some days they're quite a bit more expensive.  As far as restaurants go, it's the airports and bus stations that really gouge you.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on September 04, 2012, 09:19:38 PM
Why not have rest areas on the Turnpike model - lease space to vendors so that it becomes cost-neutral?
The job creators at exits will complain (which is why FHWA doesn't allow non-grandfathered ones on Interstates, I think).
Yeah, but they're free to move in as well. I'm not looking at a franchise model like the toll road. Local businesses can lease space to sell their wares or set up a mini shop. Better that than no rest area?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on September 04, 2012, 10:31:49 PM
Pennsylvania was giving out coffee according to the VMS on I-84 yesterday.

Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on September 04, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on September 04, 2012, 10:34:36 PM
There are signs near the Oklahoma turnpike service areas that say that no purchase is required to use the bathrooms. 

The prices at the convenience stores and burger joints on the Oklahoma turnpikes are pretty much equivalent to the prices at stores off the turnpikes.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 04, 2012, 10:42:35 PM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

OK. Where do you suggest? ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kphoger on September 04, 2012, 11:06:16 PM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

OK. Where do you suggest? ;)


Southbound - South of Harrisonville, there is room at the 327th Street line.

Northbound - Somewhere around Horton.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on September 05, 2012, 01:27:08 AM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

FL giving out orange juice is a tourism ploy to play into Florida's orange-growing industries. What beverage would be associated with Missouri? (Harry S Truman liked the hard stuff, didn't he?)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on September 05, 2012, 02:17:55 AM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

FL giving out orange juice is a tourism ploy to play into Florida's orange-growing industries. What beverage would be associated with Missouri? (Harry S Truman liked the hard stuff, didn't he?)

Well, Anheuser-Busch is headquartered in St. Louis ....

at least before they were bought out. Maybe they're still there.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 05, 2012, 07:41:21 AM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

FL giving out orange juice is a tourism ploy to play into Florida's orange-growing industries. What beverage would be associated with Missouri? (Harry S Truman liked the hard stuff, didn't he?)

Well, Anheuser-Busch is headquartered in St. Louis ....

at least before they were bought out. Maybe they're still there.

Boulevard Brewery in Kansas City,  Mothers Brewery in Springfield ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 05, 2012, 08:38:20 AM
Florida gives out free orange juice at some of its welcome centers.

It's settled, then.  Missouri should build rest areas on I-49.

OK. Where do you suggest? ;)


Southbound - South of Harrisonville, there is room at the 327th Street line.

Northbound - Somewhere around Horton.

I had earlier been thinking somewhere near Compton Junction  or somewhere south of Harrisonville: so we're within 5 miles of each other. :)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 05, 2012, 08:49:12 PM
straw man

I don't think that means what you think it means.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on September 06, 2012, 09:21:41 AM
Lol ok bro
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 06, 2012, 12:31:28 PM
Lol ok bro

oh, hi Blawp!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 07, 2012, 04:44:24 PM
In looking at MoDOT's 2013-17 Draft STIP (http://contribute.modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2013-2017/districtconstruct/documents/1_Projects_006.pdf), I noticed what appears to be a Bella Vista Bypass project slated for the 7/2014 to 6/2015 time period (page 11/27 of pdf)
I spoke with a MoDOT individual today and he confirmed that the above 2015 project in the Draft STIP is for the Bella Vista Bypass. However, it is contingent on whether Arkansas will have construction under way to the state line by that time. As he put it, there is no need to build it to a dead-end and have it sit for a long time. MoDOT already has the money set aside and will build the entire four lanes even if Arkansas has to stay at two lanes for a while.
Move Arkansas Forward has a Proposed Constitutional Fact Sheet #1 (http://www.movearkansasforward.com/pdf/TurnbackBooklet.pdf) that lists by region the four-lane highway projects that would be supported by the half-cent sales tax to be voted on in November (pages 6-7/88 of pdf; pages 4-5 of document):
Quote
Four-Lane Projects of Regional Significance
Northwest Arkansas
• Completion of the initial two lanes of the ultimate four lanes of the Bella Vista bypass
This article (http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=725282) reports that Issue No.1 was approved by the voters
(second quote from Arkansas (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6952.msg183504#msg183504) thread)

Since Arkansas now has the funding mechanism set up for two lanes of its section of the Bella Vista Bypass, it looks like Missouri should begin construction on its section of the Bella Vista Bypass by July, 2014, if not sooner.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on November 12, 2012, 11:27:45 AM
Missouri should shuffle it's money now and start next summer. Construction rates are still low and they can save long term money.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: kharvey10 on November 13, 2012, 08:24:14 PM
after going through a small local gas station off I-40 near TN/NC border earlier this summer I would rather prefer a large travel stop or a rest area.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on November 14, 2012, 03:32:51 PM
(http://kurtjwayne.com/images/pineville49.jpg)

This sign is interesting because its on the (current) southernmost i_49 Missouri exit/entrance at Pineville, on State Highway H to Noel with my phone camera facing east.  About 1/2 mile south of the bridge are the northbound lane rock cuts and the (currently blocked) southbound exit ramp for the future Bella Vista, AR, bypass, which has FINALLY gotten funding this month.  The Wildwood Estates subdivision stone entrance signs are immediately right of this.  "Bagged" blue signs were up at every turnoff (Goodman, Camp Crowder) I saw this past weekend before turning at the latter to head for Springfield.  Pineville is the last Missouri zip code north of the Arkansas state line at Bella Vista.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 15, 2012, 09:39:36 AM
You can even see the 49 through the tarp if you look closely enough. Looks like no state name though. Rats.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on November 17, 2012, 10:55:52 AM
We've got tarped-up I-49 shields here posted up here on the north end, too. Pics forthcoming.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on November 19, 2012, 05:23:34 PM
You can even see the 49 through the tarp if you look closely enough. Looks like no state name though. Rats.

Last night I drove through Anderson, MO southbound on business 71 near McDonald County High School.  Somehow, the tarp had been removed off one of the blue signs on the turnoff east to Cassville that crosses over future I-49 with exits.  I noticed that the red area indeed says "Interstate".
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 19, 2012, 06:18:01 PM
You can even see the 49 through the tarp if you look closely enough. Looks like no state name though. Rats.

Last night I drove through Anderson, MO southbound on business 71 near McDonald County High School.  Somehow, the tarp had been removed off one of the blue signs on the turnoff east to Cassville that crosses over future I-49 with exits.  I noticed that the red area indeed says "Interstate".

What he was hoping for was for the State Name below the "Interstate" text like this I-76 (http://shields.aaroads.com/show.php?image=PA19790764) shield.
Title: Unveiling Ceremony For I-49 in Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 20, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
In case anyone might want to attend the I-49 Unveiling Ceremony (http://modot.org/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm):

Quote
Unveiling Ceremony:
12 noon, Dec. 12, 2012
Joplin East Middle School
7501 E. 26th Street

Note: As I post this, the webpage has an I-44 shield instead of an I-49 shield:
(http://i.imgur.com/wwwlo.jpg)

edit - added above screen capture
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 20, 2012, 07:52:47 PM
In case anyone might want to attend the I-49 Unveiling Ceremony (http://modot.org/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm):

Quote
Unveiling Ceremony:
12 noon, Dec. 12, 2012
Joplin East Middle School
7501 E. 26th Street

Note: As I post this, the webpage has an I-44 shield instead of an I-49 shield.



I received a Press Release yesterday at the Route TT Interchange has been completed. :)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on November 20, 2012, 08:34:48 PM
Here's one thing I'm going to be curious on now that you mention I-44.  At the current U.S. 71 southbound interchange just east of Joplin there is a big sign that indicates the turnoff to (as I recall) Neosho and Fort Smith.  Right before it is a small sign for Fayetteville.

Northwest Arkansas (as it's known) has grown so much that there's now about 500,000 in the Rogers/Bentonville/Fayetteville area with about 290,000 in the Fort Smith area.  I wonder if we'll lose the little "Fayetteville" sign and the city name makes it up to the newer I-49 southbound signs alongside Fort Smith.  Doubt we'll see a turnoff to "Northwest Arkansas".  Just curious to see what we'll see on the new signs at the soon to be brand-new I-44/I-49 southbound junction.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 20, 2012, 08:48:52 PM
Here's one thing I'm going to be curious on now that you mention I-44.  At the current U.S. 71 southbound interchange just east of Joplin there is a big sign that indicates the turnoff to (as I recall) Neosho and Fort Smith.  Right before it is a small sign for Fayetteville.

Northwest Arkansas (as it's known) has grown so much that there's now about 500,000 in the Rogers/Bentonville/Fayetteville area with about 290,000 in the Fort Smith area.  I wonder if we'll lose the little "Fayetteville" sign and the city name makes it up to the newer I-49 southbound signs alongside Fort Smith.  Doubt we'll see a turnoff to "Northwest Arkansas".  Just curious to see what we'll see on the new signs at the soon to be brand-new I-44/I-49 southbound junction.

The new signs are in place, waiting for I-49 to be added. It's still Neosho/ Ft Smith
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on November 22, 2012, 09:29:40 AM
It's the old newspaper in me, but I HATE seeing Fort abbreviated in signs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on November 22, 2012, 10:20:50 AM
Wow I am impressed that a major chunk of the big gap from Shreveport and Kansas City is almost near completed.  Once, I-49 is in Missouri and the rest of the LA section is tied in with AR 549 almost two thirds of the proposed interstate extension (not counting the Layfayette to New Orleans section) will be done.

My opinion is that they should built a new freeway connection to the existing US 71 at Carthage from MO 249 or upgrade the US 71 and MO 249 expressway and bring MO 249 up to standards.  This will eliminate the I-44 overlap and continuing through one lane ramps.
Title: Re: Unveiling Ceremony For I-49 in Missouri
Post by: mgk920 on November 22, 2012, 10:30:24 AM
In case anyone might want to attend the I-49 Unveiling Ceremony (http://modot.org/southwest/major_projects/I-49/I-49Conversion.htm):

Quote
Unveiling Ceremony:
12 noon, Dec. 12, 2012
Joplin East Middle School
7501 E. 26th Street

Note: As I post this, the webpage has an I-44 shield instead of an I-49 shield:
(http://i.imgur.com/wwwlo.jpg)

edit - added above screen capture

(It's been fixed  :spin: )

Am I correct in my assumption, then, that I-49 will be officially and fully marked as such between I-44 and I-435/470 on December 12?
(C'mon Kansas City, fix that part of US 71 on your south side already!  :banghead: )

I do find it interesting that that MoDOT site identifies those lettered highways as county highways, too.

Mike
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 22, 2012, 10:39:01 AM
It's the old newspaper in me, but I HATE seeing Fort abbreviated in signs.

Then you will like this: ;)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/7033944073_24eb1cfa1f_c_d.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on November 22, 2012, 11:36:16 AM
I do find it interesting that that MoDOT site identifies those lettered highways as county highways, too.
It doesn't. They're just disambiguating where the route is (which is of course unnecessary given the headings). "Cass County 283rd Street", "Vernon County Route TT", etc.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 22, 2012, 11:41:57 AM
My opinion is that they should built a new freeway connection to the existing US 71 at Carthage from MO 249 or upgrade the US 71 and MO 249 expressway and bring MO 249 up to standards.  This will eliminate the I-44 overlap and continuing through one lane ramps.

A little more than nine months have passed since I made the below post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg133297#msg133297) about MoDOT's long term plans for MO 249.  With the unveiling less than three weeks away, I have decided to post it again:

I became curious about MoDOT's long-term plans for the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and how it relates to I-49.
I called the Southwest District Office, eventually spoke with one of the engineers, and had a great conversation.  First, MoDOT is probably looking at a ten-year horizon before a location study would be initiated.  The current thinking is that three primary options for the eventual I-49 routing exist for the location study:
1. Keep the I-44/I-49 overlap; however, this would necessitate an upgrade for the eastern I-44/I-49 interchange (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.082030138841056~-94.31241321563719&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) from a cloverleaf to a directional interchange.
2. Use the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and upgrade the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.179268394311464~-94.35022163391112&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) by finding a way to remove the presence of traffic signals at interchange ramps at US 71/MO 171/MO 96 near Carthage, as well as upgrade the MO 171/ I-49 interchange.
3. Build a new terrain connection that would basically be a "straight line" from the 171 "bend" west of the Hwy 96 interchange to the "90 degree bend" north of Carthage. (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.19089303191218~-94.35344028472899&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC)
Other options could manifest themselves during the course of the study.  Again, this all is on a loooooong term horizon.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 22, 2012, 11:55:09 AM
I do find it interesting that that MoDOT site identifies those lettered highways as county highways, too.
It doesn't. They're just disambiguating where the route is (which is of course unnecessary given the headings). "Cass County 283rd Street", "Vernon County Route TT", etc.

I can sort of understand the confusion: Secondary Routes generally don't cross county lines. Plus back in the days of cut-out shields, the signs had the county name:

State Road
    TT
 Vernon
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 22, 2012, 03:06:53 PM
It's the old newspaper in me, but I HATE seeing Fort abbreviated in signs.

You would hate some of the things Missouri does on signs.

"Ft Smith Ar", "Tulsa Ok"
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on November 25, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
 :D Driving back to KC today, and at about exit 68(?) Northbound, there was an uncovered I-49 Shield :clap:. Bad news though, it's neutered.  :angry:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on November 25, 2012, 07:48:59 PM
Is Missouri going to build a WELCOME CENTER along I-49 north of the AL Line?  I noticed that Arkansas has one for US 71 entering the Natural State from MO, so I would figure that MO would get an idea to build one being that there are no REST AREAS along the current US 71 in Missouri south of Kansas City.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on November 25, 2012, 08:11:15 PM
Is Missouri going to build a WELCOME CENTER along I-49 north of the AL Line?
Alkansaw?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 25, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
Is Missouri going to build a WELCOME CENTER along I-49 north of the AR Line?

Too early to say most likely, though there is a small info center in Pineville at US 71 and Route H
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on November 27, 2012, 05:23:33 PM
[Wheel of Fortune Puzzle SFX]

Before and After... BGS style:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3810/10494345385_9d0f9da137_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/gZmggp)
34465 (https://flic.kr/p/gZmggp) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3710/9192979517_e82e49dd57_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f1mqwR)
45022 (https://flic.kr/p/f1mqwR) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3760/9205524622_cc02ecb77f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f2sHKL)
44092 (https://flic.kr/p/f2sHKL) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5450/9195735124_ed1aaafb20_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f1AxFj)
45026 (https://flic.kr/p/f1AxFj) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 27, 2012, 05:44:43 PM
If what MoDOT is saying on Facebook is correct, the road will be signed Interstate 49 not Interstate Missouri 49
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on November 27, 2012, 08:11:31 PM
If what MoDOT is saying on Facebook is correct, the road will be signed Interstate 49 not Interstate Missouri 49

Yes sir.

:D Driving back to KC today, and at about exit 68(?) Northbound, there was an uncovered I-49 Shield :clap:. Bad news though, it's neutered.  :angry:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 28, 2012, 04:44:32 PM
Does anybody happen to have a complete list of the exit numbers for I-49 yet posted?  This is mostly for the CHM project (http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1599&mforum=clinched).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 28, 2012, 05:01:39 PM
Does anybody happen to have a complete list of the exit numbers for I-49 yet posted?  This is mostly for the CHM project (http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1599&mforum=clinched).

I think Richie does. If not, I have most of them.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on December 02, 2012, 01:36:02 PM
I-49/US 71 exit guide, with the exit numbers from I-44 to the Triangle:

http://route56.com/exitguides/i49.html
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 03, 2012, 09:10:04 AM
I-49/US 71 exit guide, with the exit numbers from I-44 to the Triangle:

http://route56.com/exitguides/i49.html

Here is what I have from Pineville to Joplin

Exit #/Road/Destination
            
5      Route H      Pineville-Noel
            
7      Route EE      Lanagan
            
10      MO 76      Anderson
            
16      MO 59/Bus US 71  Goodman/ Anderson (Southbound Only/ Bus 71 will not change to BL 49)
            
17      Route B C      Goodman
            
20      Route AA/ BL 49      (start of Neosho Bus Loop)
            
24      US 60      Seneca-Neosho
            
27      MO 86 / BL 49   Racine-Neosho (End Neosho Bus Loop)
            
30      Iris Road      
            
33      BL 49/ MO 175   Gateway Dr  (Begin Joplin Business Loop)
            
35      Route V      Diamond
            
NB 39A   Route FF      32nd St  (Southbound will be Exit 39 /non-suffixed)
NB 39B   MO 249 North   Joplin
NB 39C   I-44 West      Tulsa
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 03, 2012, 10:08:16 PM
Guess it's time to figure out what to do with the I-49 page on Wikipedia...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on December 04, 2012, 12:11:33 PM
Funny thing...the highway department "re-bagged" all the I-49 signs along U.S 71 in Newton and McDonald Counties (probably farther) with black, tightly-wrapped covering replacing the more transparent blue ones (one of which was ripped off for awhile near McDonald County High School).  They've put I-49 shields in the same covering along the about-to-be-Interstate 49 as well.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apjung on December 04, 2012, 03:26:41 PM
Guess it's time to figure out what to do with the I-49 page on Wikipedia...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interstate_49#Exit_list_for_I-49_in_Missouri_.2F_I-49_in_Missouri_article

The Missouri exit list is in the sandbox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Intelati/Sandbox/1
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 04, 2012, 06:44:29 PM
I ended up copying from the US-71 in Missouri article, since I found out about that version of the list after the fact...

Unfortunately a lot of the entries don't square with what David and Richie have posted above.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 04, 2012, 08:54:28 PM
I ended up copying from the US-71 in Missouri article, since I found out about that version of the list after the fact...

Unfortunately a lot of the entries don't square with what David and Richie have posted above.

I stand by my exit list: it is built from actual photos of exit signs.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7136/7417262344_c1af1a3df8_z_d.jpg)

I'm sure Richie's is just as thoroughly researched.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on December 09, 2012, 02:20:52 AM
Anyone in the area planning on attending? I'm thinking about going since that will be Wednesday and my schedule should allow for a visit there, provided I get set for the day in time. I might even offer to take photos for the Nevada paper. I haven't heard if they've planned to send someone there or if they're just going to do their own thing off press releases.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 09, 2012, 10:04:20 AM
I would if I were closer/didn't have to sleep during the day, but as it stands...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 09, 2012, 05:48:51 PM
Anyone in the area planning on attending? I'm thinking about going since that will be Wednesday and my schedule should allow for a visit there, provided I get set for the day in time. I might even offer to take photos for the Nevada paper. I haven't heard if they've planned to send someone there or if they're just going to do their own thing off press releases.

Tentatively yes.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 11, 2012, 12:44:20 PM
Anyone in the area planning on attending?
Tentatively yes.

Star-studded I-49 fete set in Joplin on Wednesday (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/1921387.html):

Quote
official state delegations from Arkansas and Louisiana will take part in the noon event in Joplin's East Middle School Gymnasium at 7501 E. 26th St.

Maybe you can buttonhole the Arkansas delegation and set them straight on the US 49/ I-49 nonsense ...  :pan:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on December 12, 2012, 09:38:53 AM
Cool thing.  Yesterday at the Jane, MO Walmart (which has a Pineville address...Pineville's where as of today Missouri's I-49 section currently ends) I saw at the checkouts the Rand McNally 2013 atlas.  It has I-49 from Kansas City to Pineville in its Missouri map.  As a comparison, from what I saw not even the brand new I-69 sections in Houston were "shielded", so this was cool to see.

Another thing...on the Missouri map right below the state line it showed Bella Vista/Bentonville/Rogers/Springdale/Fayetteville with a "box" around them indicating a metro area with its own inset map on the Arkansas page.  What was funny was it had, at the northern end of I-540, a question mark where that route currently ends at south Bella Vista.  I wasn't sure if that "?" meant a visitor info center (there is one in Bella Vista farther north off U.S. 71) but regardless it looks like the mapmakers saw that the Interstate ends at BV for no logical reason with a gap all the way to Pineville, and said "What?..."
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 12, 2012, 10:37:30 AM
I-540 doesn't end in Bella Vista, it ends at US 62.  I know it doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on December 12, 2012, 10:58:52 AM
I-540 doesn't end in Bella Vista, it ends at US 62.  I know it doesn't make any sense.

Indeed.  It just seems like it ends at BV because that's where you're entering when you reach the first stoplight on US 71 at the bottom of the hill when the Interstate signs end driving northbound.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 12, 2012, 12:51:00 PM
The reason it ends at US 62 is (according to AHTD) AASHTO said that it had to end at a "major route."  US 71B isn't a "major route?"  Is Route H in Pineville a "major route?"
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on December 12, 2012, 01:09:31 PM
I am still trying to figure out why FHWA will not let AR sign the section of I-49 sough of Texarkana, when it does connect with I-30.   Lots a strange occurrences in the world of roads.

It all depends how an engineer or polititian interprets things.  We are all human, and what one person thinks is different from another.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 12, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
It doesn't connect to I-30...yet.  The I-30/AR 245 interchange is a diamond.  A "bypass" is being constructed and I think it's supposed to open next year.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 12, 2012, 01:21:23 PM
I am still trying to figure out why FHWA will not let AR sign the section of I-49 sough of Texarkana

It's really more about hesitance on the part of AHTD to re-apply to AASHTO for the designation:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg188629#msg188629

Quote
For Arkansas to be able to rename I-540 to I-49 (and Arkansas Highway 549 to I‑49), US 49 will have to be either renumbered or changed from a US Highway to a State Highway.

As noted downthread in the prior discussion, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule about which AHTD expresses concern.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on December 12, 2012, 01:40:51 PM
What was funny was it had, at the northern end of I-540, a question mark where that route currently ends at south Bella Vista.  I wasn't sure if that "?" meant a visitor info center (there is one in Bella Vista farther north off U.S. 71)

It does mean a visitor info center, although it might look amusing to put the question mark box at a certain point of what's-supposed-to-be-here or does-this-road-continue, or the like.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mcdonaat on December 12, 2012, 02:13:31 PM
I am still trying to figure out why FHWA will not let AR sign the section of I-49 sough of Texarkana

It's really more about hesitance on the part of AHTD to re-apply to AASHTO for the designation:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg188629#msg188629

Quote
For Arkansas to be able to rename I-540 to I-49 (and Arkansas Highway 549 to I‑49), US 49 will have to be either renumbered or changed from a US Highway to a State Highway.

As noted downthread in the prior discussion, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule about which AHTD expresses concern.
Here's a logical idea - renumber US 49 in Arkansas to AR 49. Send US 49 up MS 3 to US 61, then to Memphis. Extend it just far enough into Tennessee to meet that 300-mile mark, then terminate it at the next available US highway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rte66man on December 12, 2012, 02:30:36 PM
I am still trying to figure out why FHWA will not let AR sign the section of I-49 sough of Texarkana

It's really more about hesitance on the part of AHTD to re-apply to AASHTO for the designation:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg188629#msg188629

Quote
For Arkansas to be able to rename I-540 to I-49 (and Arkansas Highway 549 to I‑49), US 49 will have to be either renumbered or changed from a US Highway to a State Highway.

As noted downthread in the prior discussion, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule about which AHTD expresses concern.
Here's a logical idea - renumber US 49 in Arkansas to AR 49. Send US 49 up MS 3 to US 61, then to Memphis. Extend it just far enough into Tennessee to meet that 300-mile mark, then terminate it at the next available US highway.

That would mean a long co-signing with US61. The next available highway would be I-55 at the Nonconnah Yards in Memphis.

rte66man
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mcdonaat on December 12, 2012, 02:36:56 PM

That would mean a long co-signing with US61. The next available highway would be I-55 at the Nonconnah Yards in Memphis.

rte66man
Alas, send it along some TN state roads. Maybe even extend it north into Illinois :P
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on December 12, 2012, 02:52:57 PM
how did Illinois get its I-24/US-24 exemption?

or, to use an example which seems much more likely attributable to Illinois politics... US-74/I-74 anyone!?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on December 12, 2012, 03:14:22 PM
As far as media coverage, I haven't found any up-to-the-moment articles or pix; most of the KC media did something about the change yesterday:

http://fox4kc.com/2012/12/11/us-71-highway-ready-to-change-to-i-49-but-are-you/
http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news/71-highway-is-about-to-change-its-name
http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/U-S-71-Highway-to-become-I-49-on-Wednesday/-/11664182/17736398/-/xdgntt/-/index.html
http://www.kctv5.com/story/20316995/us-71-in-mo-south-of-kc-to-be-renamed-i-49
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/12/3961098/interstate-49-becomes-official.html
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 12, 2012, 04:57:26 PM
Hate to rain on the parade.

But those damn lights just need to be brought out.

http://www.pitch.com/kansascity/road-rage/Content?oid=2177879
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on December 12, 2012, 07:10:49 PM
Record player is broken.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on December 12, 2012, 07:23:20 PM
Hate to rain on the parade.

But those damn lights just need to be brought out.

http://www.pitch.com/kansascity/road-rage/Content?oid=2177879

and how about that non-sequitur comment left in reply?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on December 12, 2012, 07:32:06 PM
Pictures from Joplin:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/430928_10152346544565331_9405837_n.jpg)
The first sign I saw on Range Line when I arrived. This is down at 32nd and Range Line (facing south). All the other shields were still covered when I arrived.

Stuck in the right-hand lane at this point, I looped around via 32nd, Connecticut and 20th back to Range Line and saw this:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/430858_10152346544710331_1742934728_n.jpg)
It's mounted on a light post just south of 20th. I didn't see it the first time around, so I don't know if it was covered or not initially.
From there, I went down to 32nd/Route FF and headed to its junction with I-49.

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61422_10152346544820331_893718503_n.jpg)
I had to stay in the car for this, so it's not a good view. If you look carefully, you'll see that not only is the I-49 shield neutered, so is the new I-44 shield.

Drove down to the next road, turned around and got this shot:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/16000_10152346544950331_1136762930_n.jpg)
A clear shot of an I-49 shield without a state name.

Also in the general area:
* - No I-49 shields were mounted on BGSes yet except one, which was on the sign for the southbound ramp facing westbound traffic on FF (directing cars to Fort Smith). It would have put me in an unsafe position to take a picture.
* - No I-49 shields on the BGSes on I-44 that I could see from the 32nd St. overpass of I-44.
* - The yellow sign telling "ALL TRUCKS USE..." in the Flying J parking lot still had its I-49 shield covered.

At this point, I needed to get back to Fort Scott for work, so I went back up via Duquesne Road, Zora St., and Range Line and saw that the I-49 shields that were covered at Madison and MacArthur in Webb City when I arrived....
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/215188_10152346545170331_678987101_n.jpg)
...had been uncovered as had the first reassurance shield east of the intersection.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on December 12, 2012, 07:33:54 PM
bleh.  Missouri had been one of the better states at consistently using the state name. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on December 12, 2012, 09:16:51 PM
Fascinating that Joplin is now a "two-interstate" town...and really poised to be a key crossroads.

Someone elsewhere has been talking about interstates paralleling major railroad corridors.  Part of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe "transcon" route parallels I-44 (St. Louis to Tulsa stretch) and I-44 (also paralleling Route 66) is really part of the shortest interstate route between New York and Los Angeles.  Meanwhile, I-49 is going to be, eventually, the shortest route between the Canadian heartland, Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico, it paralleling the Kansas City Southern railroad, the shortest route between KC and the Gulf.

Even with the horrible tornado of last year, I'm still amazed at some of the development (much of it transportation related) I've seen in far south Joplin.  It will be interesting to see what that city does as this new interstate gets further toward completion.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 12, 2012, 10:31:12 PM
AHTD is clueless.  This is nothing new.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 12, 2012, 11:19:45 PM
I found a named shield: half a dozen were handed out as "thank you's" to various MoDOT folks. It was really hard not to mug the gentleman since he had two shields ;)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/537738_4641347204115_417344_n.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 13, 2012, 11:22:07 AM
I know that I bang the drum frequently. But if you have ever experienced those lights you understand. A death trap in the waiting.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: agentsteel53 on December 13, 2012, 11:23:42 AM
I know that I bang the drum frequently. But if you have ever experienced those lights you understand. A death trap in the waiting.

especially with the autonomous roving guncars.

Quote
Bland was in the car that killed my brother, William McCon. Both Bland brother,s were in the car that called my brother to the car that shot and killed my brother William McCon. On 62 nd College. They Wouldn't tell the truth But God knows Everything !

(emphasis mine)

I can't get over that dude; he's an unintentional riot.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 13, 2012, 12:13:03 PM
Hate to rain on the parade.

But those damn lights just need to be brought out.

http://www.pitch.com/kansascity/road-rage/Content?oid=2177879

It will likely take a lawsuit to remedy the problem as much as a lawsuit helped create the problem.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on December 13, 2012, 01:54:48 PM
I'm kind of expecting I-49 to end at I-40 once the BVB is completed to full Interstate standards, and not continue further south until the missing pieces have been filled in. Leaving I-540 to Fort Smith as is makes the most sense now, as does keeping AR 549 in Texarkana for that reason.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 13, 2012, 02:29:59 PM
I'm kind of expecting I-49 to end at I-40 once the BVB is completed to full Interstate standards, and not continue further south until the missing pieces have been filled in. Leaving I-540 to Fort Smith as is makes the most sense now, as does keeping AR 549 in Texarkana for that reason.

540 to Ft Smith won't become part of I-49: 49 is being built as a whole new road that will pass east of Ft Smith through Fort Chaffee.
http://goo.gl/maps/gggba

Now as far as 49 ending at a major route, in Missouri it currently ends at the future 49/71 Split ( MM 5.0 / field verified ) not at Route H.

Now as to why US 71B in Rogers-Bentonville isn't considered "major", maybe that's an AASHTO thing. I can understand why some people think it ends at 71B: the exit numbers extend that far, plus the freeway ends there. Yet, the freeway was built in the early-mid 1980's as US 71. 540 didn't come around until later and originally ended (north leg) at Exit 67 (Bus 71{aka 71 Spur or 471 Spur, depending who you asked} ). It would later be extended to Bentonville.

But whoever said Arkansas makes sense?

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on December 13, 2012, 03:28:12 PM
I know that I bang the drum frequently. But if you have ever experienced those lights you understand. A death trap in the waiting.

You're not banging the drum.  You're posting on the internet.

Few doubt how dangerous that stretch of road is but there are other avenues to get that fixed besides spamming it on a message board every few months.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on December 13, 2012, 09:33:28 PM
[FOX NEWS ALERT SFX]

This is a AARoads News alert Non-neutered I-49 shields were spotted in Cass County.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Molandfreak on December 13, 2012, 09:59:51 PM
Why was google maps so quick to recognize I-69 in texas, but have yet to get their act together for this one? :eyebrow: They even label an out of grid I-6 instead of Maine Highway 6 :hmmm:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on December 13, 2012, 10:32:11 PM
[FOX NEWS ALERT SFX]

Obama's going to neuter your I-49 shields.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 14, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
I agree US-71 but I fear that someday it will be a bus full of children T-Boned to get things changed.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 14, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
71 will be a freeway one day ... The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood ...
those damn lights just need to be brought out.
Few doubt how dangerous that stretch of road is but there are other avenues to get that fixed

I think that, with all of the publicity surrounding the I-49 unveiling, now would be an interesting time to survey the opinions of the current generation of neighborhood residents regarding their views of a possible freeway/ interstate modification to Bruce R. Watkins Drive.  After all, if the collective neighborhood view has changed, then the neighborhood could approach the court to have the Order dissolved.  We might be surprised.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 14, 2012, 04:22:31 PM

I think that, with all of the publicity surrounding the I-49 unveiling, now would be an interesting time to survey the opinions of the current generation of neighborhood residents regarding their views of a possible freeway/ interstate modification to Bruce R. Watkins Drive.  After all, if the collective neighborhood view has changed, then the neighborhood could approach the court to have the Order dissolved.  We might be surprised.

FWIW, Bruce Watkins Dr was mentioned briefly at the ceremony, but all that was mentioned was the lawsuit to block upgrading and how the area was prettied up.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: okroads on December 14, 2012, 07:00:55 PM
I drove I-49 from Pineville to I-435 this morning.

- I-49 is completely signed on the freeway itself and on most of the intersecting roads.
- Crews were working on posting I-49 shields on BGS's at Exit 80 (SSR-DD/SSR-EE) when I passed by. Exit 83 (SSR-V/SSR-C) did not have I-49 shields on its BGS's yet. Also, a few interchanges in Grandview & Belton did not have I-49 shields on the intersecting roads' BGS's yet. All in all, great job by the crews to get nearly all of the I-49 related signs uncovered and turned forward within 48 hours of its official designation.
- I counted only 5 state-named I-49 North shields; one was just north of Exit 116 near Rich Hill, and the other 4 were in the Belton area. Also, there are TO I-49 South trailblazers on Bannister Road at US 71 (just north of the northern terminus of I-49), however, the I-49 shields were still bagged up as of this morning.
- My I-49 pictures from today are currently being uploaded to Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/sets/72157632249533956/with/8272769727/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/sets/72157632249533956/with/8272769727/)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on December 15, 2012, 08:19:58 AM
I drove I-49 from Pineville to I-435 this morning.


Wow, great job Eric.  You lucked out with the weather conditions as far as your picture quality too.

* Now that MO has the official and labeled I-49 going, they need to go back later on (I guess when it's time to replace the current set of BGSes) and get rid of the ones that have both EXIT ___ MILE(S) and the EXIT tabs, since it's now redundant.

* Is it me, or is the gantry in pic 5242 (with the 2 BGSes "MO 2 WEST MO 7 NORTH  Mechanic St" and "MO 2 EAST  Commercial St") at an odd angle or something?  Not perpindicular-looking at all.  The gantry at Exit 159 (pic 5244) at Mechanic St. looks off the other way but it could be a bit of digital weirdness as well.

* A non-neutered I-49 shield (pic 5255) north of exit 174.

* Several of the mileage signs have characters too small; those need to be bigger at next sign-change time.  Those small-character ones would be fine for a 2-lane road, but not for an interstate.

* You blink and you really would miss the "155th St  1 Mile" sign in pic 5259.  They need to try again on that one.

* No exit tabs/numbers for the I-435/I-470/US 50 exits?

* An I-49 mile marker *north* of I-435/I-470/US 50 (pic 5287, 5294)??  Interesting....

* I wonder if the I-49s with baggies at Bannister Rd. are the farthest north advisory/warning about the start of I-49 for US 71 traffic southbound.

* Non-neutered I-49 shields on the advance BGSes (pic 5307, 5308, 5311) on EB I-435/US 50.

* I didn't know that the US 71 exits off I-435 were Exit 71A & B.

Thanx Eric for taking the time to do this (since, for me, it'll be a *while* before I'm up that way again).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 15, 2012, 01:03:00 PM
I made the mistake of leaving my good camera locked in the van with only my phone camera to use for photos, so I didn't get very many good photos of the dedication.
I have a small album on Flickr with some of the better photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/us_71/sets/72157632250037501/
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on December 15, 2012, 01:30:43 PM
Great I-71 pics!  Also great captioning of I-435 and I-470 as well!  I see that the mile posts north of I-49's end feature I-49 on them.  I guess MoDOT does not want to give up on completing the freeway in Kansas City that is held up locally?

I am glad that Missouri did not count out US 71 out or US 50 for that matter as CO, NM, and even TX do not like to sign US routes along interstates.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 15, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
MO 2 in Harrisonville and MO 52 in Butler are signed along two different alignments, or at least they were the last time I was through there.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 15, 2012, 01:52:52 PM
MO 2 in Harrisonville and MO 52 in Butler are signed along two different alignments, or at least they were the last time I was through there.

52 still is, I think. it runs through town, but also follows 71/49. I'm surprised it's not a Business alignment through town.

MO 2 is a technicality: it's posted along Commercial St to E. South St, though it's not official.  But to go EB on 2 off 71/49, you'd have to turn off at MO 7, go east, then backtrack south.
It's sort of like what MoDOT does with US 63 at Rolla.
 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: okroads on December 15, 2012, 09:23:49 PM
I drove I-49 from Pineville to I-435 this morning.


* Is it me, or is the gantry in pic 5242 (with the 2 BGSes "MO 2 WEST MO 7 NORTH  Mechanic St" and "MO 2 EAST  Commercial St") at an odd angle or something?  Not perpindicular-looking at all.  The gantry at Exit 159 (pic 5244) at Mechanic St. looks off the other way but it could be a bit of digital weirdness as well.

They are both at an odd angle.
Quote
* Several of the mileage signs have characters too small; those need to be bigger at next sign-change time.  Those small-character ones would be fine for a 2-lane road, but not for an interstate.

I agree. Also, there were a couple areas where two mileage signs were posted within 1 mile of the previous exit. One sign had two destinations and the other sign had 3 destinations. Kind of an odd sight.

Quote
* You blink and you really would miss the "155th St  1 Mile" sign in pic 5259.  They need to try again on that one.

That sign looked temporary so hopefully it won't be there much longer.

Quote
* No exit tabs/numbers for the I-435/I-470/US 50 exits?

Nope.

Quote
* An I-49 mile marker *north* of I-435/I-470/US 50 (pic 5287, 5294)??  Interesting....

There were 3 I-49 mile markers north of the "I-49 ENDS" sign. The last one was just north of the Bannister Road gore point.

Quote
* Non-neutered I-49 shields on the advance BGSes (pic 5307, 5308, 5311) on EB I-435/US 50.
I noticed that also after reviewing my pictures last night. There are almost as many I-49 state-named shields there as there were on the whole northbound I-49 itself.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 15, 2012, 09:30:04 PM
* You blink and you really would miss the "155th St  1 Mile" sign in pic 5259.  They need to try again on that one.

That sign looked temporary so hopefully it won't be there much longer.

That's been there for a while, though: at least since last December. I'll have to check my files and see if I have it from June 2011.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on December 16, 2012, 10:16:56 AM

Quote
* No exit tabs/numbers for the I-435/I-470/US 50 exits?

Nope.

I wonder if this is some kind of MoDOT oversight, or other real reason besides laziness.  I could see them not being tabbed/numbered if the interchange *wasn't* part of I-49 now.

Either way, maybe it'll get addressed when the rest of the BGS issues are, or sooner.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on December 17, 2012, 10:37:23 AM
Any guesses from those with road building cost knowledge on what it would cost to upgrade those 3 lights in KC? Keep in mind the ROW is already there and I wouldn't see that much utilities work. I would say they could be done for 50 million and even have high end look goods built in. I would say to make a deal with the residents have I-49 still end at I-435 and speed limit get set at 50-55mph with heavy enforcement plus the afore mentioned aesthetic touches. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: InterstateNG on December 17, 2012, 12:51:19 PM
$75 million total is the number given in the very column you posted.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on December 17, 2012, 01:05:51 PM
Any guesses from those with road building cost knowledge on what it would cost to upgrade those 3 lights in KC? Keep in mind the ROW is already there and I wouldn't see that much utilities work. I would say they could be done for 50 million and even have high end look goods built in. I would say to make a deal with the residents have I-49 still end at I-435 and speed limit get set at 50-55mph with heavy enforcement plus the afore mentioned aesthetic touches. 

Personally, I'd prefer that they go all out and make Bruce Watkins Drive into a proper Interstate-grade 70 mph freeway, extend I-49/US 71 to I-35 as it should be, and then use Context Sensitive Design solutions to pretty up the corridor.  If you are going to upgrade, do it right.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rte66man on December 17, 2012, 04:27:56 PM
Any guesses from those with road building cost knowledge on what it would cost to upgrade those 3 lights in KC? Keep in mind the ROW is already there and I wouldn't see that much utilities work. I would say they could be done for 50 million and even have high end look goods built in. I would say to make a deal with the residents have I-49 still end at I-435 and speed limit get set at 50-55mph with heavy enforcement plus the afore mentioned aesthetic touches. 

Dig a very big trench, then bury it and put a park on the top.  Hey, it "worked" for Boston........

rte66man
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on December 17, 2012, 09:20:57 PM
* Non-neutered I-49 shields on the advance BGSes (pic 5307, 5308, 5311) on EB I-435/US 50.

I noticed that also after reviewing my pictures last night. There are almost as many I-49 state-named shields there as there were on the whole northbound I-49 itself.

Odd; normally MoDOT uses neutered shields on BGSes.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 17, 2012, 09:53:42 PM
* Non-neutered I-49 shields on the advance BGSes (pic 5307, 5308, 5311) on EB I-435/US 50.

I noticed that also after reviewing my pictures last night. There are almost as many I-49 state-named shields there as there were on the whole northbound I-49 itself.

Odd; normally MoDOT uses neutered shields on BGSes.

Oklahoma, as well, with a few exceptions.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: lamsalfl on December 18, 2012, 08:42:05 AM
Looks like Google is getting the I-49 shields up for Missouri.   
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 19, 2012, 10:03:46 PM
Looks like Google is getting the I-49 shields up for Missouri.   


Yes. Including along Bruce Watkins: http://goo.gl/maps/0Wfg0

But not along the Pineville-Joplin section  http://goo.gl/maps/qi0r5
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Molandfreak on December 20, 2012, 12:44:21 AM
Looks like Google is getting the I-49 shields up for Missouri.   


Yes. Including along Bruce Watkins: http://goo.gl/maps/0Wfg0

But not along the Pineville-Joplin section  http://goo.gl/maps/qi0r5

Shame, and you have to zoom way in to even see the road, let alone get an I-49 shield on there. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apeman33 on December 20, 2012, 03:20:50 AM
After driving a stretch of I-49 tonight, I've come to realize that two places where you go straight ahead to go onto a new route are marked as exits: I-49 southbound to MO-59 north of Diamond and I-49 northbound to MO-249. I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.

For instance, when I-235 northbound ends at I-135 in Wichita, the roadway becomes K-254. But there's no exit number for it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on December 20, 2012, 04:30:41 AM
I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.
Shitty photo, but here's I-95 south/128 south at I-93:
(http://www.interstate-guide.com/images093/i-093_st_01.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 20, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
After driving a stretch of I-49 tonight, I've come to realize that two places where you go straight ahead to go onto a new route are marked as exits: I-49 southbound to MO-59 north of Diamond and I-49 northbound to MO-249. I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.

For instance, when I-235 northbound ends at I-135 in Wichita, the roadway becomes K-254. But there's no exit number for it.

I have seen a couple instances of these, some even with an exit sign in the gore, with the arrow pointing angled left like it's a left exit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on December 20, 2012, 07:55:33 PM
Going straight from I-44 east to I-244 east is an exit.  I'm not sure if I-44 east to US 412 east is a numbered exit or not.

UPDATE: Looks like it isn't:

(http://www.okroads.com/031303/i44okatus412.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 20, 2012, 08:23:30 PM
Going straight from I-44 east to I-244 east is an exit.  I'm not sure if I-44 east to US 412 east is a numbered exit or not.


Cherokee Turnpike has exit numbers, but Alt 412 has no exit number at the East or West End. Only at Rose (#17)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 21, 2012, 07:44:04 PM
Cherokee Turnpike has exit numbers

This is new.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 21, 2012, 08:00:03 PM
Cherokee Turnpike has exit numbers

This is new.

I only got one last time I was in the area since it was getting too dark
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8447/7951093696_24b732c3a4_z_d.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Stratuscaster on December 21, 2012, 11:12:10 PM
After driving a stretch of I-49 tonight, I've come to realize that two places where you go straight ahead to go onto a new route are marked as exits: I-49 southbound to MO-59 north of Diamond and I-49 northbound to MO-249. I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.

For instance, when I-235 northbound ends at I-135 in Wichita, the roadway becomes K-254. But there's no exit number for it.

Heading southbound on I-290 East in the Chicago Suburbs - if you continue "straight" in what most would consider the "mainline lanes" you actually are on the left exit for I-355 South, Exit 7. http://goo.gl/maps/xTu5y
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mcdonaat on December 21, 2012, 11:21:34 PM
I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.
http://goo.gl/maps/iMEZx
I-110 ending at I-10.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: amroad17 on December 21, 2012, 11:47:58 PM
The I-74/I-80 bump in Rock Island, IL, I-75 south/I-375 in Detroit, and I-81 north/I-78 east near Hershey, PA.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mgk920 on December 22, 2012, 11:42:39 AM
After driving a stretch of I-49 tonight, I've come to realize that two places where you go straight ahead to go onto a new route are marked as exits: I-49 southbound to MO-59 north of Diamond and I-49 northbound to MO-249. I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.

For instance, when I-235 northbound ends at I-135 in Wichita, the roadway becomes K-254. But there's no exit number for it.

I have seen a couple instances of these, some even with an exit sign in the gore, with the arrow pointing angled left like it's a left exit.

At the 'outbound' Edens-Kennedy split in Chicago, even though it is an even 3x3 split, the I-90 course (the Kennedy towards ORD and Rockford, on the left) is signed as the 'exit' and I-94 (the Edens towards Milwaukee on the right) is considered the mainline.

Mike
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on December 22, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
After driving a stretch of I-49 tonight, I've come to realize that two places where you go straight ahead to go onto a new route are marked as exits: I-49 southbound to MO-59 north of Diamond and I-49 northbound to MO-249. I don't think I've seen a place where going straight is marked as an exit even if the route number changes.

Both of those spots would be eliminated if MoDOT eventually relocates I-49 to the MO 249 corridor as they have indicated an interest in doing - but then there might be a new one at the current I-49/MO 96/MO 171 interchange depending on the new design.
Title: Grandview To Return To I-49 BGS's?
Post by: Grzrd on January 31, 2013, 10:09:44 AM
This TV video report (http://www.kctv5.com/story/20792621/grandview-trying-to-get-citys-name-returned-to-new-interstate-signs) reports that, in the transition from US 71 to I-49, Grandview was removed from some BGS's, and that Grandview is working with MoDOT to have its name returned on ten of the signs:

Quote
When U.S. Highway 71 switched to Interstate 49 in December, Grandview, MO, residents noticed something was missing.
Large green traffic signs that hung across the former highway used to include Grandview on their list of where the roadway goes.
"It took us all by surprise that the name Grandview, that had been on the signs all those years. If you were headed south, you were headed to Grandview. Now you're headed to Joplin," Grandview Mayor Steve Dennis said.
Dennis is working with the Missouri Department of Transportation to bring Grandview back to the 10 signs on connecting highways ....
The MoDOT project manager for the I-49 project said interstate signage usually lists what they call control cities, in this case Kansas City and Joplin. MoDOT is working to get Grandview back on the signs, but that means larger signs. Right now they're making sure the trusses can support the larger signs.
"It was an oversight, not something malicious by MoDOT, in fact MoDOT has been a tremendous partner with us in the past few years," Dennis said ....
MoDOT hopes to have the new signs up early this summer. They don't know exactly how much the project will cost.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on February 04, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
You know, this forum has yet to see a state-name I-49 shield.....

(http://www.route56.com/gallery/zp-core/i.php?a=2012/Dec12/20121222&i=46032.jpg&s=630&q=85&wmk=US_56)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 05, 2013, 11:39:15 AM
You know, this forum has yet to see a state-name I-49 shield.....

(http://www.route56.com/gallery/zp-core/i.php?a=2012/Dec12/20121222&i=46032.jpg&s=630&q=85&wmk=US_56)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8274346993_bd0fbe39ba_c_d.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on April 25, 2013, 01:14:19 PM
Foolish question but...has dirt even started to be moved yet on the Pineville-to-Arkansas-line section of the Missouri side of the future I-49 Bella Vista bypass?  There's a lot of work being done already around Hiwasse, AR (trivia answer: Caverna (area in Missouri right above Bella Vista along U.S. 71) used to get their mail delivery from Hiwasse even though they were across the state line, so remote was this area as recently as three decades ago) with three bridges under construction and ground being plowed to the north toward Missouri.

On the "mid-south" forum here an article says that money for this on the Arkansas side will start pouring in from new taxes around August.  No work that I can see has been started between the east side of Hiwasse linking this to I-540 at the Bella Vista/Bentonville city limit.  That area is more developed and will be perhaps more of a challenge.  Just curious to see when earth movers will start working between Pineville and Hiwasse.  I don't envy them in that endeavor...pretty rugged country there.

(EDIT: Bella Vista I-49 bypass thread current last page on the "Mid-south" forum here: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.325 )
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 05, 2013, 11:36:36 PM
In looking at MoDOT's 2013-17 Draft STIP (http://contribute.modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2013-2017/districtconstruct/documents/1_Projects_006.pdf), I noticed what appears to be a Bella Vista Bypass project slated for the 7/2014 to 6/2015 time period (page 11/27 of pdf):
(http://i.imgur.com/D7vFQpX.jpg)
...has dirt even started to be moved yet on the Pineville-to-Arkansas-line section of the Missouri side of the future I-49 Bella Vista bypass?
I see where M0DOT has moved up there STIP for the Bella Vista Bypass to Start in the Fall of 2014. Job # 7PO601 has construction money to start there part. So Arkansas has made them feel they will work on the 2 lanes early in the 1/2 cent sales tax construction.
(bottom quote from I-49 in AR (Bella Vista, Fort Smith) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg219602#msg219602) thread)

As Gordon has already noted in the other thread, MoDOT has posted its Draft 2014-2018 Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/documents/SWprojects.pdf) and the Bella Vista Bypass Award Date has been moved up from 2015 to Fall 2014 (page 14/26 of pdf (McDonald County)):

(http://i.imgur.com/O4xJEDX.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 14, 2013, 07:18:51 PM
This video report (http://fourstateshomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=395762) reports on the conversion of the 30th road overpass (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lamar,+Missouri&hl=en&ll=37.455919,-94.298884&spn=0.006583,0.009602&sll=37.6,-95.665&sspn=52.914243,78.662109&oq=lamar+missouri&t=h&hnear=Lamar,+Barton,+Missouri&z=17) near Lamar into an interchange at Interstate 49:

Quote
MODOT Project Manager Sean Matlock looks at Barton County's latest construction project ....
Crews will build on and off ramps to convert the 30th road overpass into an interchange at Interstate 49 ....
"They saw this as something to decrease the congestion at the 160 and I-49 interchange," says Matlock ....
The project is set to be complete by the end of December.



Also, this article (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/04/30/4211077/around-the-community.html) reports that a public open house was held on May 9 (the online meeting will continue until May 23) to share the plans and receive comments about a possible new interchange at 211th Street and Interstate 49 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Peculiar,+MO&hl=en&ll=38.739892,-94.472444&spn=0.012938,0.019205&sll=37.455919,-94.298884&sspn=0.006583,0.009602&oq=Peculiar&t=h&hnear=Peculiar,+Cass,+Missouri&z=16) near Peculiar:

Quote
Construction could begin in the spring of 2015 on a new highway interchange at 211th Street and Interstate 49, along with improvements to 211th Street, School Road and Peculiar Drive.
The idea is to offer greater access to I-49 by relieving congestion at the Route C/J interchange, to provide a more direct route to the Raymore-Peculiar school campus and to foster economic growth. The project is estimated to cost about $12 million.
As part of the planning process, the Missouri Department of Transportation and the city will host a public open house May 9 to share plans and take comments.
The meeting will be from 5 to 7 p.m. at Shull Elementary School, 11706 E. 211th St. in Peculiar. No formal presentation will be made, but residents can drop in when they like and see the concepts for the interchange.
An online public meeting will be available at www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/211thStreet.htm from May 9 to May 23.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on May 14, 2013, 09:53:35 PM
To be honest I don't approve of a new interchange at this point. Six lanning is needed all the way to the North Cass Parkway first along with Jersey barriers. Some very bad cross overs have occurred there over the years. I lived in Belton from 04-06 and even then US-71 was very busy to MO-58.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on May 15, 2013, 06:38:04 PM
To be honest I don't approve of a new interchange at this point. Six lanning is needed all the way to the North Cass Parkway first along with Jersey barriers. Some very bad cross overs have occurred there over the years. I lived in Belton from 04-06 and even then US-71 was very busy to MO-58.

I lost two cousins to such an accident near the C/J interchange in Peculiar.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Darkchylde on May 17, 2013, 12:25:52 PM
To be honest I don't approve of a new interchange at this point. Six lanning is needed all the way to the North Cass Parkway first along with Jersey barriers. Some very bad cross overs have occurred there over the years. I lived in Belton from 04-06 and even then US-71 was very busy to MO-58.

I lost two cousins to such an accident near the C/J interchange in Peculiar.
Yeah, that median there is just way too narrow. I didn't get a chance going through there to see if they had median cables up, but even then. Something more's needed.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on May 20, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
To be honest I don't approve of a new interchange at this point. Six lanning is needed all the way to the North Cass Parkway first along with Jersey barriers. Some very bad cross overs have occurred there over the years. I lived in Belton from 04-06 and even then US-71 was very busy to MO-58.

I lost two cousins to such an accident near the C/J interchange in Peculiar.
Yeah, that median there is just way too narrow. I didn't get a chance going through there to see if they had median cables up, but even then. Something more's needed.

At the time, there definitely were none (it was the late 1990s).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on June 15, 2013, 06:56:24 AM

Take a look at this archived video I found from a local Kansas City area news agency.   View the whole video, and then tell me what is so wrong about it as a big error has been committed in it?  No its not the photography or anything to do with broadcasting.  Care to see what it is?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on June 15, 2013, 02:58:21 PM

Take a look at this archived video I found from a local Kansas City area news agency.   View the whole video, and then tell me what is so wrong about it as a big error has been committed in it?  No its not the photography or anything to do with broadcasting.  Care to see what it is?

Only thing I could think of was 'wrong freeway' but not sure what else it could be.  The related vids list on the side had an archived one from KC Fox 4 about the coming conversion, the video included the Paseo Bridge redo at freeway level--even though that bridge isn't or won't be part of I-49.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on June 15, 2013, 03:34:22 PM

Take a look at this archived video I found from a local Kansas City area news agency.   View the whole video, and then tell me what is so wrong about it as a big error has been committed in it?  No its not the photography or anything to do with broadcasting.  Care to see what it is?

"71 Highway...that will no longer be 71 Highway...."

*Facepalm* (And I use that sparingly.)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on June 15, 2013, 03:40:16 PM

Take a look at this archived video I found from a local Kansas City area news agency.   View the whole video, and then tell me what is so wrong about it as a big error has been committed in it?  No its not the photography or anything to do with broadcasting.  Care to see what it is?

Only thing I could think of was 'wrong freeway' but not sure what else it could be.  The related vids list on the side had an archived one from KC Fox 4 about the coming conversion, the video included the Paseo Bridge redo at freeway level--even though that bridge isn't or won't be part of I-49.

No, the video has the right freeway.  It's clearly in Grandview, a few miles south of the Interchange Formerly Known as the Grandview Triangle.

Also, the Paseo Bridge could be part of I-49 if (1) US 71 between the Triangle and Downtown is finally made into a full freeway and (2) I-29 is renumbered as I-49 (yeah, we wish, right?).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on June 16, 2013, 02:08:33 AM
Actually, I was referring to the fact that the reporter implied that US 71 was being changed to I-49.  In fact, US 71 is not going anywhere and is still staying where its at.  Only a number has been added to it, not being replaced by another.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on June 16, 2013, 07:31:10 AM
Actually, I was referring to the fact that the reporter implied that US 71 was being changed to I-49.  In fact, US 71 is not going anywhere and is still staying where its at.  Only a number has been added to it, not being replaced by another.

I've seen/heard that phrasing several times in newspapers and KC TV news reports; few in the media seem to get the situation right when they try to convey it to the reader/viewer.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apjung on June 16, 2013, 11:32:35 AM

Take a look at this archived video I found from a local Kansas City area news agency.   View the whole video, and then tell me what is so wrong about it as a big error has been committed in it?  No its not the photography or anything to do with broadcasting.  Care to see what it is?

Only thing I could think of was 'wrong freeway' but not sure what else it could be.  The related vids list on the side had an archived one from KC Fox 4 about the coming conversion, the video included the Paseo Bridge redo at freeway level--even though that bridge isn't or won't be part of I-49.

No, the video has the right freeway.  It's clearly in Grandview, a few miles south of the Interchange Formerly Known as the Grandview Triangle.

Also, the Paseo Bridge could be part of I-49 if (1) US 71 between the Triangle and Downtown is finally made into a full freeway and (2) I-29 is renumbered as I-49 (yeah, we wish, right?).

Well, this comment would probably end up in the fictional highways list but I-29 should be renumbered to I-35. This would instantly create another Mexico to Canada Interstate. All I-x29 3di routes would also be renumbered to I-x35 3di routes.

I-35 from Kansas City Northwards would be renamed as I-49. All I-x35 3di routes North of Kansas City would also be renumbered to I-x49 3di routes. Also, I-35E and I-35W in Minneapolis/St. Paul would be renumbered to I-49E and I-49W.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on June 16, 2013, 11:54:20 AM
And I-59 would be renumbered I-81. Because Georgia.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on June 16, 2013, 12:26:31 PM
Called it the Triangle instead of 3 trails crossing.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on June 16, 2013, 12:38:48 PM
Called it the Triangle instead of 3 trails crossing.
The question was what they did wrong, not right.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 17, 2013, 06:13:10 PM
Actually, I was referring to the fact that the reporter implied that US 71 was being changed to I-49.  In fact, US 71 is not going anywhere and is still staying where its at.  Only a number has been added to it, not being replaced by another.

Some of the media got it wrong, including a couple newspapers.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 01, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
As Gordon has already noted in the other thread, MoDOT has posted its Draft 2014-2018 Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/documents/SWprojects.pdf) and the Bella Vista Bypass Award Date has been moved up from 2015 to Fall 2014 (page 14/26 of pdf (McDonald County))
This PowerPoint presentation from the July 24, 2013 AHTD Commission Business Meeting (http://www.arkansashighways.com/PowerPoints/2013/072413_Commission%20Meeting%20Powerpoint.pdf) contains the entire CAP Schedule and here is a snip of the three Bella Vista Bypass projects (page 47/61 of pdf):
(http://i.imgur.com/lTS5eJL.png)
(bottom quote from I-49 in AR (Bella Vista, Fort Smith) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg235113#msg235113) thread)

I recently emailed MoDOT and asked whether, in light of AHTD's announcement regarding the Bella Vista Bypass, they are considering moving up the tentative Fall 2014 letting for their portion of the Bella Vista Bypass. The response:

Quote
We just found out about Arkansas's schedule ... We will need to see their comprehensive plan for the entire bypass.  I doubt that we will move ours forward, but rather stick with the schedule in our program.  Arkansas has much more work to accomplish than we do so they should get a quicker start.

Since it looks like AHTD does not intend to have the US 71/BVB interchange completed until the end of 2016, I'm guessing that MoDOT will not see a need to move up their letting.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: O Tamandua on August 04, 2013, 01:45:50 PM
Was at the Route 66 Festival yesterday in Joplin and went looking for an article on that in the Joplin Globe, but instead found this:

Quote

“The design of the highway is complete,” he said. “The acquisition of property is complete. All we have been waiting on is the funding. It is basically ready to go.’’

Rob Smith, communications and policy specialist for the Northwest Arkansas Council, which supported the Connecting Arkansas Program, said, “The importance of the Bella Vista bypass project and the other two major highway projects in Northwest Arkansas that will occur because voters approved Issue No. 1 cannot be overstated.

“Research commissioned by the NAC and conducted by the Texas A&M Transportation Institute last year showed our two-county area of Northwest Arkansas loses $103 million annually due to traffic congestion,’’ he said in an email statement. “The researchers told us major projects, such as the Bella Vista bypass, will help reduce that figure.”

The council is a private, nonprofit organization that was founded in 1990 to work on issues, such as infrastructure, education, economic development and community vitality. The council has about 100 members.

Said Smith: “For Northwest Arkansas and for Southwest Missouri, there’s no highway project more important than the Bella Vista bypass.’’

http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x1664877140/Arkansas-to-seek-bids-for-initial-two-lanes-of-Bella-Vista-bypass/?state=taberU


Sure would have been good if Arkansas had their act together back in 2005 when Missouri was ready to build it then.  The Natural State might not have been losing some of that $103 million annually.  But, better late than never...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 10, 2013, 06:51:25 PM
this article (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/04/30/4211077/around-the-community.html) reports that a public open house was held on May 9 (the online meeting will continue until May 23) to share the plans and receive comments about a possible new interchange at 211th Street and Interstate 49 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Peculiar,+MO&hl=en&ll=38.739892,-94.472444&spn=0.012938,0.019205&sll=37.455919,-94.298884&sspn=0.006583,0.009602&oq=Peculiar&t=h&hnear=Peculiar,+Cass,+Missouri&z=16) near Peculiar

MoDOT now has an A New Interchange at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar webpage (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/211thStreet.htm), which indicates that there will be an Open house public hearing on August 20 and that construction is scheduled to start in Spring 2015.  The page also has an Aerial view (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/documents/J4P2247_ConceptPlan_211th_I49_Interchange.pdf) of the project.



To be honest I don't approve of a new interchange at this point ... Some very bad cross overs have occurred there over the years ...
I lost two cousins to such an accident near the C/J interchange in Peculiar.
that median there is just way too narrow ... Something more's needed.

As far as I can tell, the project does not include a safety component for the I-49 median.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on August 10, 2013, 07:04:04 PM
As far as I can tell, the project does not include a safety component for the I-49 median.

Not even Missouri standard wait-a-minute cables?

/me puts my friend Ali's number on speed dial....
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 29, 2013, 08:46:21 PM
I spoke with a MoDOT individual today and he confirmed that the above 2015 project in the Draft STIP is for the Bella Vista Bypass. However, it is contingent on whether Arkansas will have construction under way to the state line by that time. As he put it, there is no need to build it to a dead-end and have it sit for a long time. MoDOT already has the money set aside and will build the entire four lanes even if Arkansas has to stay at two lanes for a while.
I recently emailed MoDOT and asked whether, in light of AHTD's announcement regarding the Bella Vista Bypass, they are considering moving up the tentative Fall 2014 letting for their portion of the Bella Vista Bypass. The response:
Quote
We just found out about Arkansas's schedule ... We will need to see their comprehensive plan for the entire bypass.  I doubt that we will move ours forward, but rather stick with the schedule in our program.  Arkansas has much more work to accomplish than we do so they should get a quicker start.

This article (http://www.thecitywire.com/node/29319) reports that MoDOT is currently approximately $25 million short of having its section of the Bella Vista Bypass fully funded:

Quote
Dan Salisbury, the assistant director of the southwest district of the Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDoT), spoke about the progress made by his state, which recently opened a large stretch of I-49 from Kansas City to just six miles north of the Arkansas state line in Pineville, Mo.
Salisbury said his state had made progress to take the interstate as far as they had, though funding to complete the state's I-49 corridor in a section known as the Bella Vista Bypass was not currently in place.
"And today, we have the plans done. They've been done for many years. We would have to go in and refresh those plans, but that would be a relatively minor task. We purchased the land but we have one challenge," he said. "Considering all the work we did north of there, we no longer have enough money to complete that. So at this time, we can't commit to a schedule in Missouri to do that."
The shortfall in funding amounts to about $25 million
, though he said Missouri transportation officials were working to find a funding source to complete the state's portion of the project.

Maybe MoDOT became tired of waiting for AHTD and used the BVB funds for other projects at some point during the past year.  Nevertheless, I think that they will identify a source for the $25 million during this upcoming year.

edit

This post in another thread (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg244296#msg244296) discusses an additional article about MoDOT's money woes and lack of a Bella Vista Bypass construction schedule.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 29, 2013, 10:47:10 PM

Maybe MoDOT became tired of waiting for AHTD and used the BVB funds for other projects at some point during the past year.  Nevertheless, I think that they will identify a source for the $25 million during this upcoming year.

Wasn't most of that money was used for upgrading US 71 to I-49 from Carthage to KC ?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 30, 2013, 09:29:35 AM
This article (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/02/3793979/us-71-south-to-become-i-49.html) .... MoDOT also makes it clear that they are waiting on Arkansas before they build Missouri's section of the Bella Vista Bypass:
Quote
The section of highway south of Joplin is complete and ready for interstate designation as far as the small town of Pineville, about five miles from the Arkansas border. At that point, the highway is supposed to connect someday to a bypass around the town of Bella Vista, just across the state line in Arkansas.
Missouri was prepared to build its portion of the bypass, estimated at $40 million, until Arkansas said it did not have the money to do its part. That’s when the Missouri highway commission decided to shift its focus and money to the section north of Joplin.
“We do not want to build a four-lane freeway that dead-ends at the state line,” said Sean Matlock, MoDOT’s manager for the I-49 project.
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2014-2018 Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/documents/SWprojects.pdf) and the Bella Vista Bypass Award Date has been moved up from 2015 to Fall 2014 (page 14/26 of pdf (McDonald County)):
(http://i.imgur.com/O4xJEDX.jpg)
I think that they will identify a source for the $25 million during this upcoming year.
Wasn't most of that money was used for upgrading US 71 to I-49 from Carthage to KC ?

Yes, you're right; the article in the top quote indicates that the money was shifted from the BVB to the Pineville-to-KC upgrade of US 71.  I may have had a simple miscommunication with the MoDOT rep during my t/c regarding the funding for the BVB. Also, I had not noticed before that the above STIP provision references "partial funding".  Maybe the initial, "partial", $15 million is for the preliminary engineering and grading, with the future $25 million needed for structures and paving (which equals the $40 million total mentioned in the above article)?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 04, 2013, 09:22:34 PM
AHTD has released the 2013 Arkansas Highway map (http://www.arkansashighways.com/planning_research/mapping_graphics/2013%20AR%20State%20Highway%20Map%20-%20State%20Side.pdf) and the 2013 map does not have the projected route through Texas
(above quote from Texarkana (Future I-49, I-69 Spur) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3321.msg228335#msg228335) thread)
the projected route of Missouri's section of the Bella Vista Bypass has appeared on the 2013 map:
(http://i.imgur.com/Tb8MeVq.png)
(above quote from I-49 in AR (Bella Vista, Fort Smith) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg228382#msg228382) thread)
This article (http://www.thecitywire.com/node/29319) reports that MoDOT is currently approximately $25 million short of having its section of the Bella Vista Bypass fully funded:
Quote
Dan Salisbury, the assistant director of the southwest district of the Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDoT) ... said ... funding to complete the state's I-49 corridor in a section known as the Bella Vista Bypass was not currently in place .... "we no longer have enough money to complete that. So at this time, we can't commit to a schedule in Missouri to do that."
The shortfall in funding amounts to about $25 million.
Missouri has finally released their 2013 official highway map.
http://www.modot.org/missourimap/
(above quote from Missouri 2013 official highway map (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10327.msg244840#msg244840) thread)

Missouri's map reflects its lack of a schedule regarding the Bella Vista Bypass by, in contrast to the Arkansas map, not having the projected route of Missouri's section of the BVB:

(http://i.imgur.com/CiFviy8.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 26, 2013, 09:54:08 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15):

Quote
The Project
* An overpass at Prigmore Road (County Road 190) will be converted to an interchange with straight, directional ramps.
* Two roundabouts will be built -- one on each side of I-44/49 on Prigmore Avenue at the end of the ramps.
* Prigmor Avenue will be resurfaced between the new interchange and 7th Street (Route 66) to the north.
* Estimated cost for engineering, purchasing land and construction is $11.1 million.
MoDOT will seek bids in the fall of 2014, with construction in 2015.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on September 27, 2013, 02:30:10 AM
I can't blame MoDOT on this one.  They waited, had funding secured for it, and AHTD's funding was in shambles... but at least now they are giving the Bella Vista bypass some thought.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on September 27, 2013, 09:28:01 AM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15):

Quote
The Project
* An overpass at Prigmore Road (County Road 190) will be converted to an interchange with straight, directional ramps.
* Two roundabouts will be built -- one on each side of I-44/49 on Prigmore Avenue at the end of the ramps.
* Prigmor Avenue will be resurfaced between the new interchange and 7th Street (Route 66) to the north.
* Estimated cost for engineering, purchasing land and construction is $11.1 million.
MoDOT will seek bids in the fall of 2014, with construction in 2015.

Courtesy MoDOT's Facebook page:

(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1377007_10151915589924743_1320791867_n.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on September 27, 2013, 12:44:36 PM
I can't blame MoDOT on this one.  They waited, had funding secured for it, and AHTD's funding was in shambles... but at least now they are giving the Bella Vista bypass some thought.
That's good, because the last thing we need is another freeway that dead ends in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Indyroads on September 27, 2013, 02:29:31 PM
I can't blame MoDOT on this one.  They waited, had funding secured for it, and AHTD's funding was in shambles... but at least now they are giving the Bella Vista bypass some thought.
That's good, because the last thing we need is another freeway that dead ends in the middle of nowhere.

lol yeah like I-66 in Somerset KY. lol
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 27, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
I became curious about MoDOT's long-term plans for the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and how it relates to I-49.
I called the Southwest District Office, eventually spoke with one of the engineers, and had a great conversation.  First, MoDOT is probably looking at a ten-year horizon before a location study would be initiated.  The current thinking is that three primary options for the eventual I-49 routing exist for the location study:
1. Keep the I-44/I-49 overlap; however, this would necessitate an upgrade for the eastern I-44/I-49 interchange (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.082030138841056~-94.31241321563719&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) from a cloverleaf to a directional interchange.
2. Use the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and upgrade the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.179268394311464~-94.35022163391112&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) by finding a way to remove the presence of traffic signals at interchange ramps at US 71/MO 171/MO 96 near Carthage, as well as upgrade the MO 171/ I-49 interchange.
3. Build a new terrain connection that would basically be a "straight line" from the 171 "bend" west of the Hwy 96 interchange to the "90 degree bend" north of Carthage. (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.19089303191218~-94.35344028472899&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC)
Other options could manifest themselves during the course of the study.  Again, this all is on a loooooong term horizon.

Preliminary work on the potential of the MO 249/MO 171 corridor is about to begin.  This Sept. 25 Joplin Globe article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x703123321/JATSO-adopts-four-year-road-plan) reports the adoption of a four-year plan by the Joplin Area Transportation Study Organization and it includes the following:

Quote
MoDOT also plans to look, at a cost of $145,000, at what work needs to be done on I-49 between Joplin and Carthage

I emailed MoDOT and asked them if this study will include a look at the MO 249/MO 171 corridor and they indicate that it will; however, the current thinking is that the MO 249/MO 171 corridor will eventually be I-249 and not I-49:

Quote
Some people are interested in converting MO 249 and a portion of MO 171 to Carthage to I-249.  This would be the early work on this idea.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on September 27, 2013, 09:08:23 PM
I can't blame MoDOT on this one.  They waited, had funding secured for it, and AHTD's funding was in shambles...

You may not be blaming MoDOT, but this article (http://mdcp.nwaonline.com/news/2013/sep/26/several-items-shared-commission-20130926/) reports that some folks in McDonald County are not completely happy with MoDOT in regard to the Bella Vista Bypass:

Quote
Several members of area government agencies met Monday with the McDonald County Commission to discuss upcoming activities in the area ....
Others on hand were ... Frank Miller, Missouri Department of Transportation district planning director ....
Eastern Commissioner John Bunch ....

Highway

A brief discussion of the completion of I-49 from Pineville south into northwest Arkansas was interjected into talk about the defining process of urbanized areas.
As Arkansas makes plans, thanks to the passage of a special tax, to start with a two-lane highway on their side of the border, Miller, the MoDOT representative, indicated there is no definite time when the long-awaited project will be approachedby Missouri.
“We have some of the funding,” Miller said, “but not enough to finish up to Arkansas.”
“I can see where we might be the stepchildren on this; that’s my opinion,” Bunch said.
“We were hoping that Missouri would go there with the four-lane through Arkansas,” added Presiding Commissioner Keith Lindquist.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mgk920 on September 27, 2013, 11:02:28 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15):

Quote
The Project
* An overpass at Prigmore Road (County Road 190) will be converted to an interchange with straight, directional ramps.
* Two roundabouts will be built -- one on each side of I-44/49 on Prigmore Avenue at the end of the ramps.
* Prigmor Avenue will be resurfaced between the new interchange and 7th Street (Route 66) to the north.
* Estimated cost for engineering, purchasing land and construction is $11.1 million.
MoDOT will seek bids in the fall of 2014, with construction in 2015.

Courtesy MoDOT's Facebook page:

(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1377007_10151915589924743_1320791867_n.jpg)

That's one thing that I've always loved about roundabouts - they allow an amazing degree of flexibility in roadway and intersection design and layout.  Try doing something like that with good efficiency and simplicity with conventional intersections.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on September 28, 2013, 01:52:03 AM
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1377007_10151915589924743_1320791867_n.jpg)

That's one thing that I've always loved about roundabouts - they allow an amazing degree of flexibility in roadway and intersection design and layout.  Try doing something like that with good efficiency and simplicity with conventional intersections.
Easy, a pair of folded diamond ramps, and two four-way intersections.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on October 05, 2013, 02:02:41 AM
Easy, a pair of folded diamond ramps, and two four-way intersections.

Agreed.  It's way too close to the I-49 South/MO 249... If you have the room, design it right! 

Don't make it like the I-44 to I-49 southbound ramp.  And then risk your life trying to get over to escape the 32nd Street "Exit Only" lane.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ShawnP on October 05, 2013, 09:15:45 AM
Might be a dead ended Interstate but I say go ahead and build it while the building rates are still low.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 06, 2013, 08:42:30 AM
This video report (http://fourstateshomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=395762) reports on the conversion of the 30th road overpass (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lamar,+Missouri&hl=en&ll=37.455919,-94.298884&spn=0.006583,0.009602&sll=37.6,-95.665&sspn=52.914243,78.662109&oq=lamar+missouri&t=h&hnear=Lamar,+Barton,+Missouri&z=17) near Lamar into an interchange at Interstate 49:
Quote
MODOT Project Manager Sean Matlock looks at Barton County's latest construction project ....
Crews will build on and off ramps to convert the 30th road overpass into an interchange at Interstate 49 ....
"They saw this as something to decrease the congestion at the 160 and I-49 interchange," says Matlock ....
The project is set to be complete by the end of December.

This article (http://www.fourstateshomepage.com/story/new-interchange-construction-continues-south-of-lamar/d/story/AdUKkqzuz0eq8cixkwGbaQ) reports that, although some work remains, the 30th Street interchange is now open to traffic:

Quote
A new interchange south of Lamar will help drivers gain easier access to the highway. People traveling north and south on I-49 will now be able to exit directly onto 30th Street, making their travel time a lot shorter ....
Work isn't 100% complete. Jim Conley with the Missouri Department of Transportation says workers will continue to cleanup the interchange for the next several weeks.
"We still have a little bit of work to do out there. We have some signs to put up, but yesterday the weather wasn't cooperating. It was really windy, we couldn't get the big signs up, but it is open to traffic now," said Jim Conley, MODOT Engineer.
The interchange cost about $1.6 million ....
MODOT workers are already setting their sights on the next project. They are getting ready to build a crossover at 1st Street near Barton County Memorial Hospital. Employees hope to start construction next spring.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on November 07, 2013, 12:43:40 AM
Updating exit guide... Until someone ground-verifies it, I'll mark it as exit 74.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 07, 2013, 11:15:59 AM
Updating exit guide... Until someone ground-verifies it, I'll mark it as exit 74.

The video report seemed to indicate it's #74. I cross-posted it to  Mid America Roads on Facebook.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 07, 2013, 11:51:55 AM
The video report seemed to indicate it's #74.

Nice catch. From the video report (http://www.fourstateshomepage.com/story/new-interchange-construction-continues-south-of-lamar/d/story/AdUKkqzuz0eq8cixkwGbaQ):

(http://i.imgur.com/tmDqf1w.png)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on January 03, 2014, 12:59:10 PM
With all these road projects, Texarkana will look very different in the next 20 years.
This would be the perfect time for Love's or Pilot to start buying up land for new truck stops
In a way they've already started because the Love's truck stop in Leary just west of town hasn't been there long.
(above quotes from Texarkana (Future I-49, I-69 Spur) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3321.msg267616#msg267616) thread)

This December 24 article (http://www.neoshodailynews.com/article/20131224/NEWS/131229516) reports that Love's has also recently purchased a new location in Neosho near Missouri's recently designated I-49 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Neosho,+MO&hl=en&ll=36.87926,-94.428263&spn=0.012701,0.026157&sll=32.678125,-83.178297&sspn=6.840799,13.392334&oq=neosho+mo&t=h&hnear=Neosho,+Newton,+Missouri&z=16):

Quote
Steve Kenny, Becky Cobb and Mike West with Red Carpet Real Estate said Love’s Travel Stops and Country Stores has purchased a parcel of land near the intersection of Interstate 49 and Missouri Highway 86 Business in order to build a new travel stop ....
“It’s got 86 on the north, Hammer Road on the east, five lanes of traffic,” he said. “Just an ideal place with the lanes they have out there, turning lanes for the trucks.”
Kenny said groundbreaking is slated to begin some time this coming spring. He deferred questions about the size of the facility and the timeframe it would be finished to a Love’s representative ....
Headquartered in Oklahoma City, Okla., Love’s Travel Stops and Country Stores began in 1964, when Tom and Judy Love incorporated the Musket Corporation, the predecessor to Love’s Country Stores, and lease an abandoned filling station in Watonga, Okla., for $5,000.
The first Country Store opened in Guymon, Okla., in 1972. By 1978, Love’s had expanded to 60 locations in small communities in Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico and Texas. In 1981, the company added the first interstate travel stop along I-40 in Amarillo, Texas, added a full range of gifts and novelties to its retail locations in 1985, and added the first quick-service restaurant in a location with a Taco Bell Express in an Oklahoma City travel stop in 1992.
Today, Love’s operates more than 300 locations and employs 10,000 people in 39 states. The company has annual sales of more than $26 billion and continues to grow at a rate of about 20 locations a year.

With the growth rate of 20 locations a year, they are probably checking out other possible locations along the entire I-49 corridor.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on January 04, 2014, 11:56:42 PM
Likely MO 86 & BL 49 at I-49. White Oak Station recently bought out an independent c-store at that location

MB886

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on February 09, 2014, 12:11:09 PM
It is interesting to see that BL I-49 at Joplin is without directional headers where concurrent with MO 171.  GSV has current coverage along the MO 171 freeway near Webb City and some on SB I-49 at MO 96 & 171 in Carthage of the new recent signage for the newest MO interstate.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on February 09, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
It is interesting to see that BL I-49 at Joplin is without directional headers where concurrent with MO 171.  GSV has current coverage along the MO 171 freeway near Webb City and some on SB I-49 at MO 96 & 171 in Carthage of the new recent signage for the newest MO interstate.

Actually, BL 49 has no banners anywhere along the Joplin-Carthage corridor.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8220/8268947723_75f3e01cc7_z_d.jpg)
BL 49 at Zora Road
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 10, 2014, 09:02:11 AM
I recently wrote MTOD about there part of the bypass and here is what they said. With the Federal money uncertain and not enough state money to finish there part,  they will move the money that is planned in 2014 STIP to general funds because it doesn't make sense to do part of it. But they are looking to see if an Initiative petition process moves forward with the state of Missouri to put it up to voters to finish the Bella Vista Bypass.
(above quote from I-49 in AR (Bella Vista, Fort Smith) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg273701#msg273701) thread)

This Feb. 5 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/topstories/x748031023/Two-proposals-would-give-voters-final-say-on-sales-tax-boost-for-highway-projects) reports that the Missouri legislature is currently considering whether to put a one-cent sales tax increase before Missouri voters that would, among other things, help fund completion of the Bella Vista Bypass; if the bill bogs down in the legislature, then a group is ready to start a petition drive to put the measure on the ballot:

Quote
Missouri transportation officials are laying out their case in the state Capitol for future highway funding, seeking a 1-cent sales tax increase to help cover an expected shortfall.
Without that, or some other funding increase, Missouri Department of Transportation Director Dave Nichols said, the department would not be able to fund bridge and road repairs.
“It is going to deteriorate unless we come up with something,” Nichols said. “We are not going to be able to afford what Missourians desire in their transportation system.”
In Southwest Missouri, that would mean no money to complete the Bella Vista bypass in McDonald County or a bypass around the west side of Joplin, officials said. Some other improvement projects, such as turn lanes and new intersections, would not happen, either.
On Tuesday, legislators took up a bill that would put the 1-cent sales tax before voters. A similar plan was proposed last year in the General Assembly, but it dead-ended in the final days of the session.
Separately, a group is considering a petition drive that would put the tax proposal on the ballot. The group is not yet gathering petition signatures, waiting to see if the Legislature will call the election.
Bill McKenna, treasurer of Missourians for Safe Transportation and New Jobs, said it would cost less and save time if the Legislature would act on the proposal. But he said his group is ready to resume working if transportation funding bogs down in the Legislature.
The group would need at least 170,000 signatures by May 4 to get the measure on the November ballot ....
Dan Salisbury, assistant district engineer for MoDOT in Joplin ....
Salisbury said committed projects will move forward, but projects such as the completion of the Bella Vista bypass in McDonald County and the construction of a bypass on the west side of Joplin will not without additional funding.
“We have a little money available for the Bella Vista bypass, but not nearly enough,” he said. “There is no possible way to provide the extra funds to complete it.

Presumably, MoDOT would be able to build a four-lane BVB if Missouri voters pass the measure.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 10, 2014, 10:22:50 AM
It is interesting to see that BL I-49 at Joplin is without directional headers where concurrent with MO 171.  GSV has current coverage along the MO 171 freeway near Webb City and some on SB I-49 at MO 96 & 171 in Carthage of the new recent signage for the newest MO interstate.

Actually, BL 49 has no banners anywhere along the Joplin-Carthage corridor.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8220/8268947723_75f3e01cc7_z_d.jpg)
BL 49 at Zora Road

Missouri doesn't usually (if ever) use directional signs on business routes.  I-44B in Joplin doesn't have directional signs either.  I don't know why they omit them - it makes things confusing.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on February 10, 2014, 01:19:39 PM
[...] no money to complete [...] a bypass around the west side of Joplin [...]
and the construction of a bypass on the west side of Joplin [...]

I hadn't heard of this project.  Where would it go, and is it connected at all to I-49 or some other corridor?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on March 10, 2014, 01:45:18 PM
Plus it if I remember right you can't end a Two Digit Interstate at a Three Digit Interstate

I-88 ends at I-290.
I-69 ends at I-465.
I-97 ends at I-895 (I-695?).
I-64 currently "ends" at I-270.
I-64 also ends at I-264 and I-664.
I-87 ends at I-278.

Therefore, I-49 can end at I-435 and I-470.

I-64 now goes all the way west to I-70 at Wentzville, MO.

You can also add an even worse end to the list: I-75 in Miami ends at a state highway!

On the subject of I-49, I have heard that apparently there has been approval for adding bridges at the signals along US 71 north of I-435, therefore it might be possible that I-49 will end in downtown K.C. fairly soon .....
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 13, 2014, 05:18:56 PM
On the subject of I-49, I have heard that apparently there has been approval for adding bridges at the signals along US 71 north of I-435, therefore it might be possible that I-49 will end in downtown K.C. fairly soon .....

Will you please provide links to information regarding the possibility of the bridges?



The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood.

Although this Feb. 16 article (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/16/4824638/new-investments-slowly-add-up.html) focuses on the area slightly north of the three stop lights (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beacon+Hill/@39.080154,-94.5679329,13z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x87c0f00eae0a2d0f:0x8de3e849ba992cc0), it does suggest a slowly changing racial demographic in the area:

Quote
We headed to Beacon Hill. The University of Missouri-Kansas City is adding housing on Troost Avenue near Truman Medical Center for students and health care workers. Private investors are building homes valued at more than $300,000 near Watkins Drive with a view of downtown’s skyline.
The investment is attracting new residents and collapsing the city’s longstanding racial divide.
In 10 years more people may weigh moving into the urban core than out.

Who knows?  The new residents may prefer an expanded Bruce R. Watkins Boulevard.  :bigass:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on March 13, 2014, 10:03:24 PM
I've been predicting a demographic change in this neighborhood that will lead to completion of I-49 in midtown KC for at least 15 years now.  There are naysayers who say it will NEVER happen but I'll be proved right.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on March 14, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
On the subject of I-49, I have heard that apparently there has been approval for adding bridges at the signals along US 71 north of I-435, therefore it might be possible that I-49 will end in downtown K.C. fairly soon .....

Will you please provide links to information regarding the possibility of the bridges?



The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood.

Although this Feb. 16 article (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/16/4824638/new-investments-slowly-add-up.html) focuses on the area slightly north of the three stop lights (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beacon+Hill/@39.080154,-94.5679329,13z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x87c0f00eae0a2d0f:0x8de3e849ba992cc0), it does suggest a slowly changing racial demographic in the area:

Quote
We headed to Beacon Hill. The University of Missouri-Kansas City is adding housing on Troost Avenue near Truman Medical Center for students and health care workers. Private investors are building homes valued at more than $300,000 near Watkins Drive with a view of downtown’s skyline.
The investment is attracting new residents and collapsing the city’s longstanding racial divide.
In 10 years more people may weigh moving into the urban core than out.

Who knows?  The new residents may prefer an expanded Bruce R. Watkins Boulevard.  :bigass:

I will look for something official. The subject came up at a "mini road meet" that we had at the Florida Strawberry festival. I will ask the source where they got their info!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on April 03, 2014, 10:56:26 AM
Ran across this on Wikipedia today (since it's wikipedia, I don't really trust the validity of it.):
Quote
Update: February 2014 - Interstate 49 in Missouri Future Northern End will be at I-70 after I-49 Freeway between 75th Street and U.S. 56 West/Swope Parkway Opens up in 2015.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Kansas_City
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on April 04, 2014, 10:35:40 PM
Ran across this on Wikipedia today (since it's wikipedia, I don't really trust the validity of it.):
Quote
Update: February 2014 - Interstate 49 in Missouri Future Northern End will be at I-70 after I-49 Freeway between 75th Street and U.S. 56 West/Swope Parkway Opens up in 2015.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Kansas_City

That's either trolling or just completely stupid wishful thinking on the part of the Wikipedia poster.  A construction project of that magnitude, that hasn't been officially announced yet, won't "open up" in 2015 unless a time machine is involved.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on April 04, 2014, 11:01:56 PM
Ran across this on Wikipedia today (since it's wikipedia, I don't really trust the validity of it.):
Quote
Update: February 2014 - Interstate 49 in Missouri Future Northern End will be at I-70 after I-49 Freeway between 75th Street and U.S. 56 West/Swope Parkway Opens up in 2015.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Kansas_City

That's either trolling or just completely stupid wishful thinking on the part of the Wikipedia poster.  A construction project of that magnitude, that hasn't been officially announced yet, won't "open up" in 2015 unless a time machine is involved.

The odd capitalization leads me to suspect someone has gotten the wrong end of the stick.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on April 05, 2014, 04:52:30 AM
The odd capitalization is very Sawblade-esque.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on April 06, 2014, 10:37:07 PM
This Feb. 5 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/topstories/x748031023/Two-proposals-would-give-voters-final-say-on-sales-tax-boost-for-highway-projects) reports that the Missouri legislature is currently considering whether to put a one-cent sales tax increase before Missouri voters that would, among other things, help fund completion of the Bella Vista Bypass; if the bill bogs down in the legislature, then a group is ready to start a petition drive to put the measure on the ballot

This April 1 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/01/missouri-transportation-tax-heads-for-the-on-ramp.html) reports that it looks like the House will pass the measure and that the Senate should have sufficient time to also pass the measure and allow Missouri voters to vote on the proposed sales tax increase in November:

Quote
A 10-year, 1-cent sales tax proposal potentially worth $8 billion and designed to fill the Missouri Department of Transportation’s increasingly shrinking coffers appears to be on the move again.
On Tuesday, Rep. Dave Schatz, R-Sullivan, said the measure — House Joint Resolution 68— should pass in the House. The resolution is a close copy of a measure that was narrowly defeated during the closing days of 2013 session, said Schatz, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
Although the measure still would need to pass the Senate, Schatz said he thinks Gov. Jay Nixon would sign the legislation, which would put the tax increase before voters on the November ballot.
Supporters of the tax are confident this year will be different. Last year, Schatz said, the measure did not make it to the Senate until late in the session, allowing a small number of opponents to filibuster and kill the bill.
This year, Schatz is confident legislators see the dire need for improvements to interstates, federal and state highways, bridges and other routes.

However, the petition drive is no longer an alternative option because it was withdrawn in February:

Quote
Kevin Flannery, a spokesman for the Secretary of State’s office said an initiative petition that would achieve the same end was withdrawn in early February.

edit

[...] no money to complete [...] a bypass around the west side of Joplin [...]
and the construction of a bypass on the west side of Joplin [...]
I hadn't heard of this project.  Where would it go, and is it connected at all to I-49 or some other corridor?

I recently started a thread about the project:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11939.msg288273#msg288273
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on April 07, 2014, 11:57:16 AM
Cool. Hopefully it'll pass and Missouri will complete I-49 to Arkansas :bigass:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on April 07, 2014, 01:19:44 PM
Bleh. Some anonymous fool added that to Interstate 49 in Missouri and I reverted it out. I don't watch the I-49 main page, so I never caught that they added it there too. It's gone now.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on April 07, 2014, 01:49:58 PM
There was another place it was showing up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Missouri

I took it out now. Hopefully, we got all of them.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on April 10, 2014, 11:46:17 PM
There was another place it was showing up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Missouri

I took it out now. Hopefully, we got all of them.

I took out a part about US 71 to LA 168 being open to local traffic (it's not)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on April 18, 2014, 07:37:22 PM
Ran across this on Wikipedia today (since it's wikipedia, I don't really trust the validity of it.):
Quote
Update: February 2014 - Interstate 49 in Missouri Future Northern End will be at I-70 after I-49 Freeway between 75th Street and U.S. 56 West/Swope Parkway Opens up in 2015.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_49#Kansas_City
Bleh. Some anonymous fool added that to Interstate 49 in Missouri and I reverted it out. I don't watch the I-49 main page, so I never caught that they added it there too. It's gone now.

In an abundance of caution (as well as curiosity), I emailed MoDOT and asked if the rumors about overpasses were true.  The response:

Quote
This is in response to your inquiry regarding the construction of overpasses and replacement of the stoplights on US 71, also known as Bruce R. Watkins Drive.  MoDOT does not have any plans or funding identified in our 5 year construction program, to make these types of improvements.  Significant environmental and public outreach work would have to take place before a project to build overpasses could become reality.  It’s very important that the nearby communities and region would support a project such as this.  We also do not have plans to perform that environmental and outreach.

I don't think it will happen in the near future ................ although it is a Congressionally designated corridor ........ that would arguably supersede the consent decree ...........  :bigass:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on April 18, 2014, 09:34:40 PM
I don't think it will happen in the near future ................ although it is a Congressionally designated corridor ........ that would arguably supersede the consent decree ...........  :bigass:

Does that mean if the federal govt wanted to build it, they could override the decree? Just curious.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on April 18, 2014, 09:59:51 PM
^ Most probably not. First, MoDOT would have to ask, which would be political suicide. Next, it would get tied up in endless litigation. Not worth it. I was just messing around and being a little sarcastic.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on April 18, 2014, 10:14:58 PM
Haha. Ok. Well you got me. I didn't think that was possible either, but I don't know how this stuff works lol
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on April 18, 2014, 11:06:41 PM
Stick It To Whitey Drive will eventually be converted to a freeway.  Mark my words.  It might be 5 years or it might be 50 years but it will happen.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on April 19, 2014, 02:27:33 PM
Stick It To Whitey Drive will eventually be converted to a freeway.  Mark my words.  It might be 5 years or it might be 50 years but it will happen.

I wouldn't be 100 percent sure about that.  It's also possible that the freeway portions, and even the expressway itself, could be torn down, with the route re-configured as surface streets or a surface-level boulevard, possibly with infill development in the footprint of the former expressway/freeway.  Of course, with all the money that's been spent on an attempted freeway, this seems unlikely, but we're dealing with political processes here, which aren't necessarily concerned with building artifacts that function well.*

The historical problem is not just opposition to a freeway, but the acceptance of a compromise that produced the worst possible result: a road clearly intended for high-speed traffic but with at-grade intersections that needed to be signalized due to traffic volumes.  Either extreme would have been safer; keeping US 71 in a surface street configuration (most of it was routed along Prospect Avenue) would have resulted in slower streets with no expectation of high-speed traffic flow, while building the entirety of the project as a freeway would have eliminated at-grade crossings with high-speed traffic.  Keep in mind that taking I-435 and then I-70 from the Grandview Triangle to Downtown is only 3.6 miles longer than the US 71/Bruce R. Watkins Drive expressway/freeway, and MoDOT could simply re-route US 71 if it wanted to.

Also, I don't think playing the race card helps your argument, but I digress.

*Note (as a late edit, for people who actually go back and read old posts): I found this sentence unclear in revealing my opinions on the subject.  I did not intend it to mean that I thought the freeway would necessarily function better than any alternatives; rather, I was trying to remark on how political processes tend to trump rationality in building projects that are supposed to function well.  At this time, I am not taking a position on whether upgrading all of Bruce R. Watkins drive to a freeway, or reverting the whole route to surface streets, would be a better alternative, although I am of the opinion that the status quo is undesirable and that either extreme would be preferable (as stated above).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on April 20, 2014, 03:04:45 AM
Why can't I play the race card?  The neighborhood who threw a hissy fit about this road played the race card.  Their racism has led to several deaths.  The compromise was unacceptable and made nobody happy.  The neighborhood members who were opposed to this route were mad because they thought European-Americans would use the route.  I'm not making any of this up, you can look it up.

I can say that Prospect is actually faster than taking the Stick It To Whitey Drive at 7:30am at least as far north as Blue Parkway/US 56.

It will eventually be a freeway.  Like I said, it might not happen in my lifetime but in the next 50 years or so, it will be upgraded because the assholes living in that neighborhood will either move or die off and the new residents will realize that cars sitting at traffic lights create more pollution than cars whizzing by at 65 MPH.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on April 20, 2014, 03:55:47 AM
I don't understand why they can't dig this stretch of road into a trench and build at least a couple or more pedestrian bridges across it. Missouri is big on SPUI intersections aren't they? This is a huge freaking failure they can't make a simple road construction project like this happen anytime in the last 40 years.

They could build a freeway through that section of Kansas City if they made it nice enough. Did MODOT ever think about that one?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on April 20, 2014, 04:01:59 AM
I don't understand why they can't dig this stretch of road into a trench and build at least a couple or more pedestrian bridges across it. Missouri is big on SPUI intersections aren't they? This is a huge freaking failure they can't make a simple road construction project like this happen anytime in the last 40 years.

They could build a freeway through that section of Kansas City if they made it nice enough. Did MODOT ever think about that one?

The residents of that neighborhood refused to compromise.  It was no highway or the highway, if you will.  Any freeway, even a gorgeous one, wasn't good enough for them.  I hope they all choke on the exhaust fumes until they realize they made a bad decision.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apjung on April 24, 2014, 07:51:52 PM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but Google Street View now has images from Dec. 2013 with I-49 signs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 14, 2014, 03:51:52 PM
This Feb. 5 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/topstories/x748031023/Two-proposals-would-give-voters-final-say-on-sales-tax-boost-for-highway-projects) reports that the Missouri legislature is currently considering whether to put a one-cent sales tax increase before Missouri voters that would, among other things, help fund completion of the Bella Vista Bypass
This April 1 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/01/missouri-transportation-tax-heads-for-the-on-ramp.html) reports that it looks like the House will pass the measure and that the Senate should have sufficient time to also pass the measure and allow Missouri voters to vote on the proposed sales tax increase in November

This article (http://www.thestate.com/2014/05/14/3446440/missouri-voters-to-decide-transportation.html) reports that the Missouri legislature will allow Missouri voters to decide the fate of the transportation sales tax:

Quote
Missouri voters will decide later this year whether to raise the state sales tax to generate more than $500 million annually for roads and other transportation projects.
The House gave final approval Wednesday to a proposed constitutional amendment that would impose a three-quarters-of-a-cent sales tax for transportation. The Senate approved the measure previously. That means it will go before voters in November, unless Gov. Jay Nixon sets an earlier election date.

If approved by voters, the general sales tax increase would take effect in 2015 and run for 10 years. It would mark the first time that Missouri's roads have been funded with something other than a user fee, such as a motor fuel tax, registration fees or a tax on vehicle sales. The projected $534 million of annual revenues would make it the state's largest-ever tax increase ....
This year's measure also began in the House as a 1-cent sales tax proposal, but the Senate amended it last month it to a 0.75 cent sales tax, which is why a final House vote was required. The measure had appeared in jeopardy last week, when some Democrats threatened to withdraw their support because of concerns about a separate income tax cut enacted when the Republican-led Legislature overrode Nixon's veto.
The proposal sets a 10-year limit on the transportation sales tax, with an additional vote of the people required for it to extend beyond that. Ninety percent of the money, an estimated $480 million annually, would go toward state transportation initiatives. Ten percent, or an estimated $54 million annually, would be split among cities and counties for transportation projects. While the sales tax is in place, the measure would bar the state from raising the fuel tax or operating toll roads.

I assume the reduction from the originally proposed one-cent tax to a three-quarters-of-a-cent tax will still allow the Bella Vista Bypass to be one of the projects funded by the tax if it is approved by voters.

edit

This article (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/sales-tax-increase-for-transportation-heads-to-missouri-ballot/article_09878795-e738-5988-86d9-cbb5a22d853c.html) reports that a specific list of projects anticipated to be funded by the sales tax should be finalized in September:

Quote
After the House vote, MoDOT’s director, Dave Nichols, issued a statement praising the Legislature’s move.
“Today is a great day for the future of transportation in Missouri,” he said.
Nichols said in an interview that the highway commission would work with regional planning agencies to develop a specific list of projects that would be funded. That list will be finalized by September, before the November vote on the tax increase.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 15, 2014, 02:04:07 PM
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2014-2018 Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://modot.mo.gov/plansandprojects/construction_program/documents/SWprojects.pdf) and the Bella Vista Bypass Award Date has been moved up from 2015 to Fall 2014 (page 14/26 of pdf (McDonald County)):
(http://i.imgur.com/O4xJEDX.jpg)
This article (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/sales-tax-increase-for-transportation-heads-to-missouri-ballot/article_09878795-e738-5988-86d9-cbb5a22d853c.html) reports that a specific list of projects anticipated to be funded by the sales tax should be finalized in September

It appears that rejection of the transportation sales tax by Missouri voters in November would not be the death knell for the Bella Vista Bypass. MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04f1aSWprojects.pdf) and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf):

(http://i.imgur.com/ReyEHZS.png)

Assuming no transportation sales tax, a slow timetable is better than no timetable.  On the other hand, approval of the sales tax by the voters should accelerate the construction timetable.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 15, 2014, 02:27:08 PM
Here's hoping the measure passes and they build it soon.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2014, 01:43:16 PM
This article (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/sales-tax-increase-for-transportation-heads-to-missouri-ballot/article_09878795-e738-5988-86d9-cbb5a22d853c.html) reports that a specific list of projects anticipated to be funded by the sales tax should be finalized in September

This article (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/05/20/missouri-transportation-sales-tax-which-projects.html?page=all) provides a bit more detail about how the project list will be finalized before the November vote; of note is the inclusion of a thirty-day public comment period:

Quote
Dave Nichols, director of the Missouri Department of Transportation ....
said MoDOT and its partners will put together a draft list of funding priorities and present it to the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission in August. That draft list will be open for a 30-day public comment period. After making possible revisions, the final list will be presented for approval during the commission's September meeting. Once approved, the list will be made public so voters can know which projects will receive the money before they vote.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 29, 2014, 05:18:07 PM
This article (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/sales-tax-increase-for-transportation-heads-to-missouri-ballot/article_09878795-e738-5988-86d9-cbb5a22d853c.html) reports that a specific list of projects anticipated to be funded by the sales tax should be finalized in September
This article (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/05/20/missouri-transportation-sales-tax-which-projects.html?page=all) provides a bit more detail about how the project list will be finalized before the November vote; of note is the inclusion of a thirty-day public comment period:
Quote
Dave Nichols, director of the Missouri Department of Transportation ....
said MoDOT and its partners will put together a draft list of funding priorities and present it to the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission in August. That draft list will be open for a 30-day public comment period. After making possible revisions, the final list will be presented for approval during the commission's September meeting. Once approved, the list will be made public so voters can know which projects will receive the money before they vote.

This article (http://www.emissourian.com/local_news/county/article_a445db65-d569-5f51-b976-af8279f37141.html) reports that Governor Nixon has set August 5, not a November date, as the date for the vote on the transportation sales tax; as a result, the projects list will have to be developed much more quickly:

Quote
Voters will decide Aug. 5 whether they want to approve or reject a three-quarter-cent sales tax increase on themselves to fund transportation projects around the state ....
Gov. Jay Nixon last week set election dates for the transportation tax and seven other constitutional amendments ....
Presiding County Commissioner John Griesheimer said he was “shocked” when he saw that the election had been set for August instead of November.
Griesheimer questioned what ulterior motives Gov. Nixon may have in setting the election so early. The groups that will try to sell it to the public will have a very short time to mount any kind of statewide campaign, Griesheimer added.
It will be “extremely difficult” to pass the tax in that amount of time, he said.
Nixon is withholding statements about the proposed transportation sales tax for now, St. Louis Public Radio reported ....
In fact, Griesheimer said he heard from a Missouri Department of Transportation official that the county needs to have its proposed project list submitted by the end of the week ....
He noted that MoDOT wants the list of projects before the election so voters will have an idea of how the tax would be used if it is approved.
Still, some officials who favor the tax have said there will be enough time before the August election to mount an effective campaign.

We should know shortly whether the Bella Vista Bypass will be included in the list of projects.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on May 31, 2014, 01:15:35 AM
Quote

This article (http://www.emissourian.com/local_news/county/article_a445db65-d569-5f51-b976-af8279f37141.html) reports that Governor Nixon has set August 5, not a November date, as the date for the vote on the transportation sales tax; as a result, the projects list will have to be developed much more quickly:

Voters will decide Aug. 5 whether they want to approve or reject a three-quarter-cent sales tax increase on themselves to fund transportation projects around the state ....
Gov. Jay Nixon last week set election dates for the transportation tax and seven other constitutional amendments ....
Presiding County Commissioner John Griesheimer said he was “shocked” when he saw that the election had been set for August instead of November.

That's a very clever way of killing the tax. The anti-tax vote in Missouri will come out against it in their usual vigor while casual voters won't even know it's being voted on. A very clever veto that's not really a veto.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on June 02, 2014, 05:56:04 PM
Quote
This article (http://www.emissourian.com/local_news/county/article_a445db65-d569-5f51-b976-af8279f37141.html) reports that Governor Nixon has set August 5, not a November date, as the date for the vote on the transportation sales tax
That's a very clever way of killing the tax. The anti-tax vote in Missouri will come out against it in their usual vigor while casual voters won't even know it's being voted on. A very clever veto that's not really a veto.

This article (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/06/02/5062468/jay-nixon-rips-missouris-huge.html) reports that, although Governor Nixon did not veto the measure, he is opposed to it:

Quote
Will Missouri voters in August approve a huge, regressive sales tax increase that even Democratic Gov. Jay Nixon does not support?
We will find out in nine weeks
, now that Nixon on Monday came out both barrels blazing against the three-quarter cent transportation tax hike championed by a lot of highway contractors ....
That led Nixon to say this in his announcement on Monday:
“Recently, members of the General Assembly have been engaged in a relentless effort to erode Missouri’s tax base by carving out new loopholes and exemptions for wealthy individuals and businesses.
In the past two months alone, the legislature has passed over a billion dollars in tax breaks that disproportionately benefit the most affluent taxpayers and businesses. These misguided policies, including the $776 million package of primarily sales tax giveaways rushed through on the last day of session, have shifted the tax burden away from the wealthy and onto working Missourians, while undermining support for education and other vital public services that create opportunity for Missouri families” ....
“I cannot in good conscience endorse a $6.1 billion tax hike on Missouri families and seniors when special interests and the wealthy are being showered with sweetheart deals. This tax hike is neither a fair nor fiscally responsible solution to our transportation infrastructure needs and it does not have my support.”

At least he is allowing the people of Missouri to vote on it.

edit

This article (http://www.therolladailynews.com/article/20140602/NEWS/140609788/-1/news/?Start=1) clarifies that Governor Nixon did not have legal authority to veto the constitutional vote (hence the above strike-through on my comment):

Quote
Because it is in the form a constitutional amendment that is decided by voters, the measure did not have to go before the Democratic governor for his signature or veto. But Nixon still has authority to determine the election date for ballot items.

The article also reports that MoDOT plans to release a list of projects by June 13:

Quote
The transportation department said it plans to release a list of projects by June 13 that could be funded if voters pass the sales tax.
After a public comment period, the transportation commission plans to vote on a final project list on June 26.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on June 06, 2014, 05:01:54 PM
We should know shortly whether the Bella Vista Bypass will be included in the list of projects.
This article (http://www.therolladailynews.com/article/20140602/NEWS/140609788/-1/news/?Start=1) .... reports that MoDOT plans to release a list of projects by June 13:
Quote
The transportation department said it plans to release a list of projects by June 13 that could be funded if voters pass the sales tax.
After a public comment period, the transportation commission plans to vote on a final project list on June 26.

This article (http://www.nevadadailymail.com/story/2089625.html) reports that the Bella Vista Bypass is included on the project list:

Quote
Some of the projects in southwestern Missouri include a bypass route to Route 171 near Carthage, completion of Interstate 49 to the Arkansas border, road resurfacing on a seven- to 10-year cycle and the installation of pedestrian signals in Nevada.

Let the transportation commission approve the BVB on June 26 and let the voters decide on August 5!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on June 12, 2014, 02:27:34 PM
KCUR FM Audio - "No Change In Store For Controversial Bruce R. Watkins Drive" (http://kcur.org/post/no-changes-store-controversial-bruce-r-watkins-drive)
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KANSAS CITY, MO (kcur) - Tune in to the radio traffic reports any rush hour, and you're likely to hear one road name mentioned again and again. Highway 71, also known as Bruce R Watkins Drive, is known to cross-town commuters as one of the city's most accident-prone stretches of road. According to the Missouri Department of Transportation, the stretch between 55th Street and Gregory averages 277 accidents per hundred million vehicle miles, higher than the state average of 170 accidents for similar roadway types.
I emailed MoDOT and asked if the rumors about overpasses were true.  The response:
Quote
This is in response to your inquiry regarding the construction of overpasses and replacement of the stoplights on US 71, also known as Bruce R. Watkins Drive.  MoDOT does not have any plans or funding identified in our 5 year construction program, to make these types of improvements.  Significant environmental and public outreach work would have to take place before a project to build overpasses could become reality.  It’s very important that the nearby communities and region would support a project such as this.  We also do not have plans to perform that environmental and outreach.

KCUR has a new audio report (http://kcur.org/post/highway-71-and-road-compromise) about the history of Bruce R. Watkins Drive:

Quote
Mamie Hughes, 85, stands in the middle of a bridge that’s named after her, and she marvels at the power of the road below. The power of Highway 71.
“Sometimes I just like to stand here and look and watch the traffic,” she says as cars and semis zoom underneath. “Seeing how much goes, and it’s just kind of fun.”
The Mamie Hughes Bridge crosses Highway 71, or Bruce R. Watkins Drive as it’s also known, at Meyer Boulevard.
And to Hughes, this is a bridge “for the people.”  It was part of a compromise decades ago that made the highway possible
, to make sure it wouldn’t divide communities, but would connect them, she says ....
Because it wasn’t a freeway, the road would have lower speed limits and perhaps most controversial, the addition of bridges and streetlights. Hughes took a lot of the heat for that.
“These are arteries that are there for the people who live there. They need to be able to go across, back and forth, and those traffic lights control that,” says Hughes.
When Bruce R. Watkins was finally completed in 2001, 50 years after its inception, there were three traffic lights on the roadway, at Gregory Boulevard, 55th Street And 59th Street. These intersections have proven to be some of the most accident-heavy spots on Kansas City’s roadways,according to Steve Porter of the Missouri Department of Transportation.

“It’s as safe as we can make it. What is going to make this corridor safer, is going to be the behavior of the people,” Porter says.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on June 13, 2014, 01:58:03 PM
Full lists: http://www.modot.org/movingforward/
The Bella Vista bypass is listed.
(above quote from MoDOT's Transportation Sales Tax 10-Year Project List (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12635.msg305858#msg305858) thread)

Great news that inclusion of the BVB in the draft list is official!



Preliminary work on the potential of the MO 249/MO 171 corridor is about to begin.  This Sept. 25 Joplin Globe article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x703123321/JATSO-adopts-four-year-road-plan) reports the adoption of a four-year plan by the Joplin Area Transportation Study Organization and it includes the following:
Quote
MoDOT also plans to look, at a cost of $145,000, at what work needs to be done on I-49 between Joplin and Carthage
I emailed MoDOT and asked them if this study will include a look at the MO 249/MO 171 corridor and they indicate that it will; however, the current thinking is that the MO 249/MO 171 corridor will eventually be I-249 and not I-49:
Quote
Some people are interested in converting MO 249 and a portion of MO 171 to Carthage to I-249.  This would be the early work on this idea.

In addition to the BVB and the completion of I-49, construction of Future I-249 in Jasper County is included in the Draft Southwest Region Priority List (http://www.modot.org/MovingForward/Regions/documents/MovingForward_ProjectList_SWDistrictJune132014.pdf):

Quote
Improve Rte 249 and Rte 171 to interstate standards from I-44 to Carthage
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 13, 2014, 10:44:22 PM
Will the clusterfuck at BL 49/MO 171/MO 249/Route HH have to be upgraded to bring the road to I-standards?  Will I-249 be duplexed with BL 49?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on June 19, 2014, 08:56:15 AM
I became curious about MoDOT's long-term plans for the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and how it relates to I-49.
I called the Southwest District Office, eventually spoke with one of the engineers, and had a great conversation.  First, MoDOT is probably looking at a ten-year horizon before a location study would be initiated.  The current thinking is that three primary options for the eventual I-49 routing exist for the location study:
1. Keep the I-44/I-49 overlap; however, this would necessitate an upgrade for the eastern I-44/I-49 interchange (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.082030138841056~-94.31241321563719&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) from a cloverleaf to a directional interchange.
2. Use the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor and upgrade the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.179268394311464~-94.35022163391112&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC) by finding a way to remove the presence of traffic signals at interchange ramps at US 71/MO 171/MO 96 near Carthage, as well as upgrade the MO 171/ I-49 interchange.
3. Build a new terrain connection that would basically be a "straight line" from the 171 "bend" west of the Hwy 96 interchange to the "90 degree bend" north of Carthage. (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=37.19089303191218~-94.35344028472899&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Fidelity%2C%20MO&form=LMLTCC)
Other options could manifest themselves during the course of the study.  Again, this all is on a loooooong term horizon
Preliminary work on the potential of the MO 249/MO 171 corridor is about to begin.  This Sept. 25 Joplin Globe article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x703123321/JATSO-adopts-four-year-road-plan) reports the adoption of a four-year plan by the Joplin Area Transportation Study Organization and it includes the following:
Quote
MoDOT also plans to look, at a cost of $145,000, at what work needs to be done on I-49 between Joplin and Carthage
I emailed MoDOT and asked them if this study will include a look at the MO 249/MO 171 corridor and they indicate that it will; however, the current thinking is that the MO 249/MO 171 corridor will eventually be I-249 and not I-49:
Quote
Some people are interested in converting MO 249 and a portion of MO 171 to Carthage to I-249.  This would be the early work on this idea.

This article (http://www.carthagepress.com/article/20140617/NEWS/140619062/10082/NEWS) reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249:

Quote
The list includes hundreds of projects across the state, including some in and around Carthage.
The big one in this area would improve Missouri Highway 171 and Missouri Highway 249 to interstate standards by creating an interstate-standard, free-flowing interchange at I-49 and Missouri 171 in Carthage.
MoDOT Southwest Assistant District Engineer Dan Salisbury said this is expected to be the most expensive of the more than 200 projects proposed for Southwest Missouri.

Creating an interchange where traffic doesn't have to stop to transfer from I-49 to Missouri 171 between Carthage and Webb City has long been under discussion as a way to move I-49 traffic off I-44, but Carthage City Administrator Tom Short, who has been attending regional planning meetings about this list, says no firm plan has been developed for how and where to build the interchange.
Currently, I-49 follows the old U.S. Highway 71 to Fidelity, then joins I-44 between Fidelity and the Missouri 249 interchange southeast of Joplin.
Eventually the plan is for I-49 to follow Missouri 171 and Missouri 249 before heading south into Newton County, but an interchange where traffic doesn’t have to stop is required to make that designation happen.
The area around the current Central Avenue interchange is heavily developed, making building a free-flowing interchange at that spot complicated at best.
"We've been trying to push for the interchange at Highway 96 and Central Avenue all along," Short said. "There have been other locations discussed, but our goal is to keep it as close to Carthage as possible."

Maybe the new terrain third option will make economic sense in comparison to the potential ROW expenses at the current location.

I also like the idea of designating the MO 249/ MO 171 corridor as I-49 in order to avoid an I-44 overlap.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 19, 2014, 10:04:36 AM
:o:o:o:o;);)
Will the clusterfuck at BL 49/MO 171/MO 249/Route HH have to be upgraded to bring the road to I-standards?  Will I-249 be duplexed with BL 49?
FWIW, the HH/171/249 area is being redesigned as we speak (type?)

If 249 goes I-49 or I-249, I don't see the section east to Carthage being upgraded, but building another alignment... and messing up Richie's exit guides ;)

MB886

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on June 19, 2014, 10:26:33 AM
So if that loop (249/171/etc) is signed as I-49, would the current I-49 (from exits 46 to 53) be signed as I-249?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on June 19, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
So if that loop (249/171/etc) is signed as I-49, would the current I-49 (from exits 46 to 53) be signed as I-249?

Probably would remain as or return to US 71/MO 59, if past history is any trend.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on June 19, 2014, 03:20:09 PM
It would be kind of silly to have US-71 follow I-44 when a road is being built for the purpose of avoiding I-49 from having to do the same.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 19, 2014, 05:06:40 PM
They could reroute mainline US 71 to follow the old Alt US 71 (now MO 59) highway from Neosho to Carthage.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on June 20, 2014, 05:10:34 AM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 20, 2014, 09:01:26 AM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.
I would suspect MO59 would be extended, but would 571 remain the same considering it's a Spur of 71?


MB886

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on June 20, 2014, 10:16:57 AM
:o:o:o:o;);)
Will the clusterfuck at BL 49/MO 171/MO 249/Route HH have to be upgraded to bring the road to I-standards?  Will I-249 be duplexed with BL 49?
FWIW, the HH/171/249 area is being redesigned as we speak (type?)

If 249 goes I-49 or I-249, I don't see the section east to Carthage being upgraded, but building another alignment... and messing up Richie's exit guides ;)

MB886



Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 20, 2014, 08:35:08 PM
Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.

It is indeed a full freeway up to the diamond.  A couple of flyovers could solve the problem, but I'd rather see a new freeway from somewhere on 171/49B/96 to the sharp curve on 49/71 than just a couple of flyovers.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 21, 2014, 07:55:26 AM
Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.

It is indeed a full freeway up to the diamond.  A couple of flyovers could solve the problem, but I'd rather see a new freeway from somewhere on 171/49B/96 to the sharp curve on 49/71 than just a couple of flyovers.
I read somewhere that when 249 was built, there were future plans to extend it, perhaps as a city street (?)


MB886

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on July 09, 2014, 12:55:50 PM
Full lists: http://www.modot.org/movingforward/
The Bella Vista bypass is listed.
(above quote from MoDOT's Transportation Sales Tax 10-Year Project List (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12635.msg305858#msg305858) thread)
Great news that inclusion of the BVB in the draft list is official!

The Bella Vista Bypass remains in the Final Commission-Approved Southwest Region Project List (http://www.modot.org/MovingForward/Lists/MoDOT%20Statewide%20Project%20List%20FINAL%207-9-14%20Southwest.pdf) and has an estimated construction cost of $32.49 million.



This article (http://www.carthagepress.com/article/20140617/NEWS/140619062/10082/NEWS) reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249

The MO 249/ MO 171 interstate upgrade project also remains in the above-linked Final Commission-Approved List and has an estimated construction cost of $62.44 million.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on July 09, 2014, 05:27:59 PM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.

US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello".  :-D
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Molandfreak on July 09, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.
US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello".  :-D
That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on July 11, 2014, 09:16:17 AM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.
US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello".  :-D
That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.

I agree.  However, I approve of US 412 being on the Cherokee and Cimarron Turnpikes in Oklahoma.  First, US 412 is a "super US highway" along with 400 and 425 and should not be held to the same standards as US 51.  Secondly,  in both instances there are US highways paralleling US 412 (US 412A, US 64).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on July 11, 2014, 01:47:17 PM
There's also the fact that the 412 turnpikes would not have a numeric designation without 412. If US-51 were still on its surface alignment, the turnpike would still be I-90.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on July 17, 2014, 01:47:38 AM
Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.
unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.
US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello".  :-D
That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.
US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: TheStranger on July 18, 2014, 01:25:36 PM

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Alps on July 20, 2014, 02:53:06 AM

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?
Yes, but it didn't receive any. Consequences unknown. If other states started following suit, consequences could become known.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on July 20, 2014, 03:53:19 AM
As far as I know, AASHTO did exactly fuck all about ODOT unilaterally extending US 377 after being specifically denied on multiple occasions. If they wouldn't do anything then, I doubt they would ever do anything ever. The only more egregious defiance possible would be inventing a route out of whole cloth.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on July 21, 2014, 07:24:56 AM

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?
Yes, but it didn't receive any. Consequences unknown. If other states started following suit, consequences could become known.

AHTD moved US 70 from I-30 back onto the surface route that was signed US 70B for years.  They didn't, however, move US 67 back.  I don't think AASHTO was notified.

Last time I was there, there was an I-30/US 67/US 70 sign on EB I-30 just west of the I-530 interchange, but I don't know if it's still there or not.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on August 06, 2014, 02:31:04 PM
It appears that rejection of the transportation sales tax by Missouri voters in November would not be the death knell for the Bella Vista Bypass. MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04f1aSWprojects.pdf) and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)

This article (http://www.thecitywire.com/node/34142#.U-Jv0vldVpU) reports that the transportation sales tax was defeated and the BVB is now in limbo; however, Arkansas officials are hopeful that Missouri will still find a way to complete its section:

Quote
Missouri voters overwhelming rejected an increase in the state’s sale tax to pay for highways, roads and bridges ... This leaves the Bella Vista bypass project north of the Arkansas border in limbo ....
Arkansas officials remain hopeful that Missouri will find the money to complete its portion of the road, but until then the full benefit of Arkansas’ $150 million investment cannot be realized.

Also, the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission apparently approved the 2015-19 STIP today (http://www.modot.org/about/commission/documents/2014-08-06Agenda.pdf), and the Bella Vista Bypass remains in an unchanged position in the STIP (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04hSWprojpymts.pdf) (here are the changes that were made to the Draft STIP: http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/RevisionsfromDraftSTIPtoFinalSTIPWordingforposting.pdf).

Above said, now that the sales tax has been defeated, I will not be surprised if the STIP will be amended in the future to at least allow grading work before 2018.  I am sure that Arkansas will strongly encourage them to do so.



This article (http://www.carthagepress.com/article/20140617/NEWS/140619062/10082/NEWS) reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249

As far as I can tell, this project is not in the 2015-19 STIP and it is apparently now in the deep freeze.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 06, 2014, 04:46:49 PM
It appears that rejection of the transportation sales tax by Missouri voters in November would not be the death knell for the Bella Vista Bypass. MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04f1aSWprojects.pdf) and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)

I asked MoDOT this morning if they had alternate plans for finishing I-49 and their response was basically "we have no money".

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 06, 2014, 09:16:33 PM
Good ol' Republicans...too cheap to pay taxes even if they are going for desperately needed projects like new highways (especially in a state like Missouri that is notorious for having bad roads.)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on August 06, 2014, 09:19:23 PM
^ The Democratic regions of St. Louis and Kansas City had higher percentages against the tax than some of the rural counties.  Maybe a sales tax isn't the way to go?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on August 07, 2014, 05:18:09 AM
How did Amendment 3 work? I remember MoDOT touting that as funding a lot of their projects when I lived up there.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: MSU John on August 13, 2014, 02:46:11 PM
From what I read when researching Missouri's now failed tax increase, MODOT is saddled with bond payments for the next 20 years as a result of their "building renaissance" in the early 2000s. Apparently, with these bond payments taken into consideration, they will only have an annual budget of $325 million by 2017...and it's estimated at $485 million just to maintain the state's roads.

It sounds like proponents of the amendment were trying to get this on a November ballot, but it ended up getting moved to the August ballot, which left very little time to promote.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on August 13, 2014, 04:19:05 PM
Missouri needs to dump most of the lettered routes and some of the numbered routes to the counties.  They have to maintain way too many miles of highways and every bridge replacement takes away money that could have been used to improve I-70 or I-44.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on August 13, 2014, 08:02:35 PM
If it does follow MO 249 then there will have to be major rework at the Interchange with US-71 which has a actual light.

Post Merge: August 05, 2010, 10:25:44 PM
Plus I am so strong on this as I have seen many lives lost on the Bruce Watkins and know it will only get worse with more traffic from a I-49 upgrade coming online. I also noticed MODOT did speed up things by a year as the Cass County portion was coming online until the FY-2013 budget originally. I think with the recession bids are coming in lower these days plus the power of bidding multiple work packages helps lower costs.

One proposal is to build a new connection at the 'dogleg' at Carthage. Makes sense then there is no I-44/49 multiplex.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on October 01, 2014, 11:46:41 PM
According to Google Maps I-49 is planned to follow US 71 all the way north into downtown Kansas City eventually: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9996746,-94.5561395,542m/data=!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: dfwmapper on October 02, 2014, 01:17:18 AM
Please never use the phrase "According to Google Maps" again. Many of the people that Google hires couldn't find their ass with their hands sewn into their back pockets. Really not the kind of people you want working on a map, but it's outsourced to India, so you get what you pay for. But please do keep pointing out any bad stuff you find, I clean up what I can.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on October 02, 2014, 01:36:33 AM
Please never use the phrase "According to Google Maps" again.
Unless you're comparing distances.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 02, 2014, 11:03:34 AM
According to Google Maps I-49 is planned to follow US 71 all the way north into downtown Kansas City eventually: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9996746,-94.5561395,542m/data=!3m1!1e3

Eventually, someday maybe, but I doubt I'll be around to see it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Darkchylde on October 03, 2014, 07:32:52 AM
According to Google Maps I-49 is planned to follow US 71 all the way north into downtown Kansas City eventually: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9996746,-94.5561395,542m/data=!3m1!1e3
If that court order preventing the stoplights at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street from being removed ever gets overturned, perhaps. The ROW's already there. The highway's already freeway on both ends of it.

There's also the issue that the US 71/I-70/I-670 interchange at the southeastern corner of the Downtown Loop doesn't have full freeway connections for all movements (specifically US 71 North to I-70 East (requires a surface connection via Truman), and I-70 West to US 71 South (requires a surface connection via The Paseo.)) It wouldn't be mandatory to upgrade that interchange for the designation to be put into place, assuming the three stoplights ever go down, but those connections would sure be nice to have.

But as long as that court order's in place, filling in that missing link is dead in the water. They may as well just extend I-49 up the southeastern quadrant of I-435 to I-70 near the stadiums if they want a 49/70 direct link.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on October 03, 2014, 12:32:51 PM
According to Google Maps I-49 is planned to follow US 71 all the way north into downtown Kansas City eventually: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9996746,-94.5561395,542m/data=!3m1!1e3
If that court order preventing the stoplights at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street from being removed ever gets overturned, perhaps. The ROW's already there. The highway's already freeway on both ends of it.

There's also the issue that the US 71/I-70/I-670 interchange at the southeastern corner of the Downtown Loop doesn't have full freeway connections for all movements (specifically US 71 North to I-70 East (requires a surface connection via Truman), and I-70 West to US 71 South (requires a surface connection via The Paseo.)) It wouldn't be mandatory to upgrade that interchange for the designation to be put into place, assuming the three stoplights ever go down, but those connections would sure be nice to have.

But as long as that court order's in place, filling in that missing link is dead in the water. They may as well just extend I-49 up the southeastern quadrant of I-435 to I-70 near the stadiums if they want a 49/70 direct link.
While extending I-49 up US 71 makes the most sense, that pesky court order will remain in place, and the powers that be won't care how many accidents occur at those three signalized intersections. And there is precedent for ending 2di's at 3di's...
(http://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland070/i-070_eb_exit_091_08.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on October 05, 2014, 05:42:52 PM
I think I-49 predates that instance, actually. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on October 06, 2014, 02:42:27 AM
Signs have erroneously claimed I-70 ends at I-695 for a long time.

I-64 has always ended at one of its own children. I-97 goes from I-595 to I-695 (with a direct connection to I-895).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on October 07, 2014, 01:07:42 AM
Signs have erroneously claimed I-70 ends at I-695 for a long time.

I-64 has always ended at one of its own children. I-97 goes from I-595 to I-695 (with a direct connection to I-895).

And I-76 still ends at I-295, last time I checked.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on October 09, 2014, 01:36:04 PM
Signs have erroneously claimed I-70 ends at I-695 for a long time.

I-64 has always ended at one of its own children. I-97 goes from I-595 to I-695 (with a direct connection to I-895).

And I-76 still ends at I-295, last time I checked.
Now that the truncation of I-70 is official, it will end at I-695. As for I-64, the last time I checked, it does not have any 3di's in the St. Louis area (and don't even get me started on why MO 364 is not an Interstate either!).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on October 09, 2014, 04:24:16 PM
As for I-64, the last time I checked, it does not have any 3di's in the St. Louis area
No shit?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on October 10, 2014, 04:10:10 AM
As for I-64, the last time I checked, it does not have any 3di's in the St. Louis area
No shit?
Not yet anyways ..... I-364 could be a future 3di. Why else would MoDOT number the highway as MO 364 unless the intention was for a future I-364 .....?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on October 10, 2014, 09:55:57 AM
As for I-64, the last time I checked, it does not have any 3di's in the St. Louis area
No shit?
Not yet anyways ..... I-364 could be a future 3di. Why else would MoDOT number the highway as MO 364 unless the intention was for a future I-364 .....?

Because MO-370.  Seriously, Missouri has done it before with MO-370, numbering a state route as a child route of an interstate.

Then we have IL-255 as an extension of I-255 across the river...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: english si on October 10, 2014, 10:39:12 AM
Because MO-370.  Seriously, Missouri has done it before with MO-370, numbering a state route as a child route of an interstate.
That was planned to be I-370 but got shot down due to the odd number not being even.

I-364 could fall foul of the same issue, but I doubt it now AASHTO is much more slack on numbering, and that I-270 isn't an I-x64 route, so it can be a spur of the I-64 network (whereas I-370 is a shortcut on the I-70 network)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on October 10, 2014, 04:32:54 PM
Because MO-370.  Seriously, Missouri has done it before with MO-370, numbering a state route as a child route of an interstate.
That was planned to be I-370 but got shot down due to the odd number not being even.

I-364 could fall foul of the same issue, but I doubt it now AASHTO is much more slack on numbering, and that I-270 isn't an I-x64 route, so it can be a spur of the I-64 network (whereas I-370 is a shortcut on the I-70 network)
I-870 is still available for the MO 370 corridor if AASHTO insists on an even number - then that would also free up the I-370 designation for US 54 from Kingdom City to Jefferson City so that there is not the same issue with the proposed I-570 which could instead just run from US 54 (I-370) to I-70 and there would be two separate odd I-x70 designations into Missouri's capital city .....
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on October 10, 2014, 05:32:12 PM
As for I-64, the last time I checked, it does not have any 3di's in the St. Louis area
No shit?
Not yet anyways ..... I-364 could be a future 3di. Why else would MoDOT number the highway as MO 364 unless the intention was for a future I-364 .....?

Because MO-370.  Seriously, Missouri has done it before with MO-370, numbering a state route as a child route of an interstate.

Then we have IL-255 as an extension of I-255 across the river...

MO 249 is another one, but it existed before I-49 was extended into Missouri.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on October 10, 2014, 05:59:19 PM
MO 249 was numbered in anticipation of I-49, wasn't it?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on October 10, 2014, 06:05:31 PM
Missouri has used xy for spurs of y since the 1930s (140 and 240): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Missouri/All-time_list
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on October 10, 2014, 07:29:35 PM
MO 571, which would have historically been US 71 Business and would now be BL 49 except for the fact that there is another BL 49 in the area. Since Missouri doesn't use directional markers for their business loops, why not extend (NB) BL 49 south along MO 571 to end at I-49 at the south end of Carthage?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 10, 2014, 07:41:24 PM

MO 249 was numbered in anticipation of I-49, wasn't it?

Most likely. :)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on October 14, 2014, 10:08:50 AM
Because MO-370.  Seriously, Missouri has done it before with MO-370, numbering a state route as a child route of an interstate.
That was planned to be I-370 but got shot down due to the odd number not being even.

I-364 could fall foul of the same issue, but I doubt it now AASHTO is much more slack on numbering, and that I-270 isn't an I-x64 route, so it can be a spur of the I-64 network (whereas I-370 is a shortcut on the I-70 network)

Says who?  IDOT has I-155 and I-355 next door doing something similar, as does KDOT with I-135 and I-335 on the other side.  Then there's I-170 right there in Missouri, in the Saint Louis area.  If AASHTO has a problem with I-370 or I-364 in Missouri, then AASHTO (and FHWA for that matter) is being very selective in what they whine about.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 12, 2014, 07:55:57 PM
No, it doesn't pertain to the Bella Vista Bypass, but this TV video (http://www.fourstateshomepage.com/story/d/story/lamar-first-street-overpass-opens/52777/nWlxKgSYOkubma05NjMKHw) reports that the new First Street overpass in Lamar (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lamar,+MO+64759/@37.5064821,-94.2987183,1649m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x87c6371e1c85e883:0xc7539e12d7bc0a3e) will provide better access to the local hospital:

Quote
The new bridge over I-49 is east of the interstate and connects with West Outer Road. The outer roads on both sides of I-49 are also now open to traffic. The bridge was constructed to provide better access to local businesses in the area. Especially, to the local hospital where, until now, there has only been one way for ambulances to get to the emergency room ....
The project cost $2.3 million. It's a partnership between MoDOT, Barton County, the local hospital and ambulance district.

Also, here is MoDOT's press release about the project (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=199260).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 12, 2014, 08:07:13 PM
Has the I-49 name caught on in Missouri, or are people still calling it Highway 71?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Darkchylde on November 12, 2014, 08:10:23 PM
At least in the KC area, it's starting to catch on. The traffic reports on the radio always use "I-49" for that area instead of "71 Highway", which they do still use for the portion of 71 north of the Triangle. People are a little slower on the uptake than the traffic reports, but they're learning.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: route56 on November 12, 2014, 09:00:53 PM
At least in the KC area, it's starting to catch on. The traffic reports on the radio always use "I-49" for that area instead of "71 Highway", which they do still use for the portion of 71 north of the Triangle.

Which is impressive, considering that everyone still refers to the Triangle as "the Triangle" instead of its official name "Three Trails Crossing."

A running line from local talk show host Dana Wright is that "it will always be the Grandview Triangle."
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on November 12, 2014, 09:21:13 PM
its official name "Three Trails Crossing."
Stupid name that nobody should use.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I94RoadRunner on November 14, 2014, 11:40:29 PM
its official name "Three Trails Crossing."
Stupid name that nobody should use.
Funny, I have always heard the junction as 'The Triangle' myself .....
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: txstateends on November 15, 2014, 03:59:52 AM
its official name "Three Trails Crossing."

Sounds like a glorified side street and not a major freeway interchange.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on November 19, 2014, 12:52:38 AM
Has the I-49 name caught on in Missouri, or are people still calling it Highway 71?
I think it's caught on, and I think it's caught on here in NW Arkansas... Although when it was I-540 in NWA, people kept calling it "the bypass", and I'll still here that time to time (and I hate it!).

I've seen billboards along I-49 in Missouri with changed "signage" on them.

In true Missouri form, I want to see 49 Interstate references!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: m2tbone on November 19, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
I wouldn't call that true Missouri form, as that's only a thing in Western Missouri.  In Mid-Missouri and Eastern Missouri, we say it in the form of such examples as Interstate 70 or I-70, Hwy 63, Hwy 61, etc. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 20, 2014, 07:53:54 AM
And even then, it would be "49 Highway". If Interstateness is explicitly referenced, it is your standard "I-49" or "Interstate 49".
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on November 21, 2014, 10:58:49 PM
I lived in Kansas City for 2 years and never heard "70 Highway" or "35 Highway". Only for state (lettered and numbered) and US highways.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on November 21, 2014, 11:12:28 PM
According to Google Maps I-49 is planned to follow US 71 all the way north into downtown Kansas City eventually: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9996746,-94.5561395,542m/data=!3m1!1e3
If that court order preventing the stoplights at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street from being removed ever gets overturned, perhaps. The ROW's already there. The highway's already freeway on both ends of it.

There's also the issue that the US 71/I-70/I-670 interchange at the southeastern corner of the Downtown Loop doesn't have full freeway connections for all movements (specifically US 71 North to I-70 East (requires a surface connection via Truman), and I-70 West to US 71 South (requires a surface connection via The Paseo.)) It wouldn't be mandatory to upgrade that interchange for the designation to be put into place, assuming the three stoplights ever go down, but those connections would sure be nice to have.

But as long as that court order's in place, filling in that missing link is dead in the water. They may as well just extend I-49 up the southeastern quadrant of I-435 to I-70 near the stadiums if they want a 49/70 direct link.

There's seriously a court order ordering them to keep the road dangerous and inefficient?  Could you post a link?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: dfwmapper on November 22, 2014, 01:54:09 AM
Apparently someone wrote a paper about it, found it on Google, haven't read it: http://tulane.edu/liberal-arts/upload/SMFPaper.pdf
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on November 22, 2014, 05:46:56 AM
The court order mandates the stoplights because the adjoining neighborhood doesn't want a freeway there.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 22, 2014, 10:46:29 AM
There's seriously a court order ordering them to keep the road dangerous and inefficient?  Could you post a link?

The two KCUR stories linked in this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg305623;topicseen#msg305623) provide some good background information.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 14, 2014, 12:44:59 PM
This article (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/06/02/5062468/jay-nixon-rips-missouris-huge.html) reports that, although Governor Nixon did not veto the measure, he is opposed to it
Quote
“I cannot in good conscience endorse a $6.1 billion tax hike on Missouri families and seniors when special interests and the wealthy are being showered with sweetheart deals. This tax hike is neither a fair nor fiscally responsible solution to our transportation infrastructure needs and it does not have my support.”

This December 12 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/toll-roads-face-strong-opposition-in-missouri/article_73410573-1263-52b6-9a51-b0525d086b69.html) reports that Gov. Nixon is now suggesting that tolling I-70 could free up money for other projects in Missouri, presumably including the Bella Vista Bypass:

Quote
The newest sections of Interstate 70 — a road that spans across mid-Missouri connecting the state’s two largest metropolises, St. Louis and Kansas City — were constructed in the 1960s and “designed to meet road standards and traffic volumes of an earlier day,” as Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon described it on Tuesday. It is traveled more than any other road in the state, and after years of repairs, its base is not what it used to be ....
On Tuesday, Nixon, a Democrat, penned a letter to the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission asking it to report back to him on the idea of using tolls to pay for Interstate 70 upgrades. That, he said, could free up existing money for other projects for the agency that he said will soon reach a “critical juncture” in its funding ....
Asked if there was any interest in paying for Missouri's share of the Bella Vista Bypass with a toll road, Scott Holste, spokesman for Nixon, said the immediate focus would remain on improvements to Interstate 70, but added that a toll road there could free up money that could be used elsewhere.
State Rep. Bill Lant, R-Pineville, said he does not buy into the notion that more funding for Interstate 70 could lead to more funding for transportation projects throughout the state. In fact, Lant, a member of the House Transportation Committee, said he thinks it could actually deplete resources if drivers avoid it by using other parallel routes that are available.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 18, 2014, 09:10:16 AM
This December 12 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/toll-roads-face-strong-opposition-in-missouri/article_73410573-1263-52b6-9a51-b0525d086b69.html) reports that Gov. Nixon is now suggesting that tolling I-70 could free up money for other projects in Missouri, presumably including the Bella Vista Bypass

This Dec. 12 article (http://politicmo.com/2014/12/12/nixons-toll-road-proposal-might-face-rough-path-forward/) reports that the presiding commissioner in McDonald County believes that tolls should be considered as a financing mechanism to complete the Bella Vista Bypass:

Quote
Keith Lindquist, the presiding commissioner in McDonald County, said he has never been a fan of tolls, either. But Friday, he said that perhaps the time may have come to consider them as an option for completing the Missouri stretch of the Bella Vista bypass.
“I would like to think there would be a better way for something like that, but I know MoDOT is not in a good financial situation,” he said, noting the funding problem the Missouri Department of Transportation is facing with less money from the federal government and declining revenue from the state’s gasoline tax.
“Maybe it’s time,” he said, to take a look at it.
Arkansas officials several years ago discussed a toll as one option to build its share of the bypass, but in 2012 voters approved a half-cent sales tax for a number of major transportation projects, including two lanes of the bypass.
Lindquist said completion of the bypass — for which MoDOT has already has acquired the land — would be an economic boon for Southwest Missouri, as well as make travel safer for motorists going to and through Northwest Arkansas.
“It’d be huge for everybody. It’s so congested on (Interstate) 49 right now,” he said.
Lindquist said a toll road that would set aside money for maintenance but that would sunset when the road is paid for would be the ideal option.
Tom Crawford, president of the Missouri Trucking Association, said flatly: “We’re anti-toll road.”
The idea of having to hassle with tolls, he said, is the “one idea that gets my members riled up the most.”
Crawford, whose organization represents companies like the Joplin-based Con-way Truckload, said he, like Lant, still supports a combination of gas and sales tax increases, but is open to other ideas. Just not tolls.
“It is an inefficient way of collecting road money. You’re looking at a minimum of 15 to 20 percent off the top. Those dollars go to the administration of the program,” he said. “The other part of it that gets our folks going is it causes a lot of diversion, and ends up with traffic on roads that aren’t designed for that kind of traffic. It is human nature to find a way around it if you can.”
Crawford, speaking by phone from Washington, D.C., said Missouri might do well for itself to consider an idea being mulled there: an infrastructure bank. Members of Congress there have toyed with the idea of allowing companies to repatriate money that they have kept overseas by purchasing bonds from the bank. The sale of those bonds would go to funding transportation projects.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on December 18, 2014, 12:41:16 PM
I don't care how the funding comes, just finish the damn thing already!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 18, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
One problem with this: Arkansas would have to rewrite its highway laws if they wanted their section of I-49 to be tolled. I'm not sure it would make much sense for Missouri to toll their section and Arkansas to be toll-free.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on January 15, 2015, 01:08:43 PM
This article (http://www.carthagepress.com/article/20140617/NEWS/140619062/10082/NEWS) reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249:
Quote
Eventually the plan is for I-49 to follow Missouri 171 and Missouri 249 before heading south into Newton County ....

MoDOT has posted a January 14, 2015 Press Release (http://www.modot.org/newsandinfo/District0Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=199953) announcing the issuance of  "Missouri's 325 System" (http://www.modot.org/toughchoicesahead/), its plan for taking care of roads and bridges with a severely reduced construction budget by focusing its limited resources on approximately 8,000 miles of Missouri's 34,000-mile state highway system. The Southwest District Map (http://www.modot.org/toughchoicesahead/documents/SW_the_missouri_325_system.pdf) shows that current I-49 and MO 249/ MO 171 (possible Future I-49 segment) are included in the plan, but, not surprisingly, neither construction of the Carthage area interchange necessary for the conversion of MO 249/ MO 171 to I-49 nor construction of the Bella Vista Bypass is included:

(http://i.imgur.com/ysDp7pY.png)

edit

This article (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article6457356.html) reports that Bruce R. Watkins Drive (granted, a distant Future I-49 possibility) is not included in the primary system and will receive minimal maintenance:

Quote
Missouri Department of Transportation director Dave Nichols painted a bleak picture Wednesday of the future of the state’s highway system.
In two years, he said in a public presentation to the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission, the state transportation budget will shrink so much that only a tiny fraction of the state’s 34,000 miles of roads will get proper upkeep.
The rest — totaling more than 26,000 miles of roadways across the state — will get minimal attention.  In Kansas City, that would include
the Broadway Bridge extension, Blue Parkway and Bruce R. Watkins Drive.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: 3467 on January 15, 2015, 01:31:19 PM
The executive summary is very clear no new construction and very limited repair on anything not on the primary system
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on January 16, 2015, 03:14:52 AM
And that pretty much kills the Bella Vista Bypass in SW Missouri.  Gah!

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on January 19, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
And that pretty much kills the Bella Vista Bypass in SW Missouri.  Gah!


For now.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on January 19, 2015, 06:03:26 PM
Shame the adjacent land is not owned by one farmer or such, he could build his own short temporary toll road:)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on February 13, 2015, 08:14:37 PM
So are they eventually going to tie 171/249 into I-49 in Joplin and directly route the Interstate instead of multiplexing it with I-44?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on February 13, 2015, 10:49:04 PM
So are they eventually going to tie 171/249 into I-49 in Joplin and directly route the Interstate instead of multiplexing it with I-44?

It appears so

Quote
Mr. Hertzberg discussed the MO-171 capacity improvements and stated that this project involves improving the capacity and safety of MO-171 from the Kansas State Line to the future I-49.  Mr. Salisbury discussed improvements at Stone’s Corner (intersection of MO-171 and MO-43), as well as passing lanes between MO-96 and the Kansas State Line.

...

...

Mr. Hertzberg then asked for discussion of the cost estimates.  The MoDOT officials explained that the I-49 corridor improvements in Missouri consist of three different segments.  They anticipate costs of $75 million for improvements from the Jasper County line north to Kansas City.  They anticipate a cost of $50 million for a high-speed interchange northwest of Carthage to connect I-49 onto MO-171 to the existing MO-249 alignment, and a cost of $60 million to complete Missouri’s portion of the Bella Vista bypass.

-MINUTES JOPLIN AREA TRANSPORTATION STUDY ORGANIZATION WORKSHOP THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 2009
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on February 13, 2015, 11:37:24 PM
So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on February 13, 2015, 11:41:53 PM
So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?

$65 million for the 60-65 interchange http://www.modot.org/southwest/major_projects/greene/60-65Interchange.html

I don't really have any equivalent projects for the new interstate, but it sounds about right.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apjung on February 13, 2015, 11:53:44 PM
If I-49 is rerouted thru 249 and 171 would it be a setup with partial access similar to the setup with I-5, I-205 and I-580 forming a triangle in Tracy, CA?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 14, 2015, 09:56:03 AM
Quote
Mr. Hertzberg then asked for discussion of the cost estimates.  The MoDOT officials explained that the I-49 corridor improvements in Missouri consist of three different segments.  They anticipate costs of $75 million for improvements from the Jasper County line north to Kansas City.  They anticipate a cost of $50 million for a high-speed interchange northwest of Carthage to connect I-49 onto MO-171 to the existing MO-249 alignment, and a cost of $60 million to complete Missouri’s portion of the Bella Vista bypass.
-MINUTES JOPLIN AREA TRANSPORTATION STUDY ORGANIZATION WORKSHOP THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 2009
So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?
$65 million for the 60-65 interchange http://www.modot.org/southwest/major_projects/greene/60-65Interchange.html
I don't really have any equivalent projects for the new interstate, but it sounds about right.

More recent estimates provided to Missouri voters for the failed August, 2014 sales tax increase attempt were discussed in this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg311182#msg311182) (the link to the document itself does not work; I have not checked to see if MoDOT has archived it elsewhere on its website):

Bella Vista Bypass: $32.49 million
Mo 249/ MO 171 upgrade to interstate: $62.44 million

The difference in estimates for the BVB is interesting.

edit

So are they eventually going to tie 171/249 into I-49 in Joplin and directly route the Interstate instead of multiplexing it with I-44?

This post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg306979#msg306979) summarizes some possibilities and includes a (currently live) link to an article that reflects MoDOT's thinking circa June, 2014.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on February 17, 2015, 01:02:34 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15):
Quote
The Project
* An overpass at Prigmore Road (County Road 190) will be converted to an interchange with straight, directional ramps.
* Two roundabouts will be built -- one on each side of I-44/49 on Prigmore Avenue at the end of the ramps.
* Prigmor Avenue will be resurfaced between the new interchange and 7th Street (Route 66) to the north.
* Estimated cost for engineering, purchasing land and construction is $11.1 million.
MoDOT will seek bids in the fall of 2014, with construction in 2015.

This article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/work-to-begin-on-new-interstate-interchange/article_db351730-b6bf-11e4-867d-4397040ba5e8.html) reports that construction will begin on the interchange during the week of March 2 and that the construction should be completed in November:

Quote
Work to construct a new interchange on Interstate 44 to provide direct access to the Crossroads Business and Distribution Park is scheduled to begin the week of March 2, the Missouri Department of Transportation said in a statement released this morning.
The $8.6 million interchange will be at Prigmor Avenue, east of the existing interchange for interstates 44 and 49.
Traffic impacts will include narrowed lanes on Interstate 44 and Interstate 49 for the duration of the project, and the closing of the current Prigmor Avenue bridge during construction of a new bridge and interchange. The project also will cause some brief closings on both interstates, mostly at night.
The project includes the interchange with ramps connecting to the interstate, and the building of roundabouts on each end of the bridge that will connect the ramps to Prigmor Avenue, which will be resurfaced between new interchange and East Seventh Street. The completion date is Nov. 1/
Funding for the project comes from Jasper County, the city of Duenweg and MoDOT economic development funds awarded to the city of Joplin.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on February 17, 2015, 02:02:23 PM
Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on February 18, 2015, 08:28:27 AM
Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?

Read the thread.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on March 04, 2015, 12:16:55 AM
Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?
No, there isn't.  MoDOT is in a bind. 
http://www.kmov.com/news/talkers/Lack-of-MoDOT-funds-may-leave-Missouri-highways-neglected-290705991.html

I hate the I-44 to southbound I-49 near Joplin.  The 32nd Street/Highway FF interchange is way too close.  That merge can be crazy at times.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on March 04, 2015, 12:52:54 AM
The interchange with MO 171 and Route HH is way too close to the 171/249 interchange as well. Headed eastbound on MO 171 you have to whip over a couple of lanes in a very short distance to exit onto HH. As far as the 44/49 eastern/northern interchange goes, a flyover from EB 44 to NB 49 would make a world of difference.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on March 04, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Seems like the HH/249/171 clusterf*ck was just reconstructed last year, though I don't remember the details
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on March 09, 2015, 02:19:11 AM
The interchange with MO 171 and Route HH is way too close to the 171/249 interchange as well. Headed eastbound on MO 171 you have to whip over a couple of lanes in a very short distance to exit onto HH. As far as the 44/49 eastern/northern interchange goes, a flyover from EB 44 to NB 49 would make a world of difference.
Agree.  I've never driven that during "rush hour" times.  Weaves are a no-no.

Seems like the HH/249/171 clusterf*ck was just reconstructed last year, though I don't remember the details
I've driven through it very recently, and had no problems, but there was that weave issue for Route HH.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 23, 2015, 12:22:46 PM
MoDOT has posted a January 14, 2015 Press Release (http://www.modot.org/newsandinfo/District0Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=199953) announcing the issuance of  "Missouri's 325 System" (http://www.modot.org/toughchoicesahead/), its plan for taking care of roads and bridges with a severely reduced construction budget by focusing its limited resources on approximately 8,000 miles of Missouri's 34,000-mile state highway system. The Southwest District Map (http://www.modot.org/toughchoicesahead/documents/SW_the_missouri_325_system.pdf) shows that current I-49 and MO 249/ MO 171 (possible Future I-49 segment) are included in the plan, but, not surprisingly, neither construction of the Carthage area interchange necessary for the conversion of MO 249/ MO 171 to I-49 nor construction of the Bella Vista Bypass is included
And that pretty much kills the Bella Vista Bypass in SW Missouri.  Gah!
For now.

AASHTO has posted "Nation at a Crossroads" (https://invest.transportation.org/), an infographic that makes the case for Congress to get its act together and pass a long-term highway reauthorization bill that will allow state DOTs to plan and build new major highway projects.  The Bella Vista Bypass is included as one of Missouri's ten "critical projects" that could be addressed with a reauthorization:

(http://i.imgur.com/MUPC73m.png)

IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 24, 2015, 11:47:35 AM
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04f1aSWprojects.pdf) and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)
IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.

HOWEVER, this article (http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_stories/modot-seeks-approval-of-gas-tax-proposal/article_236235e6-d1b0-11e4-ad02-0b423f6ee8f6.html) reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:

Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan. It is based on a pending bill introduced by Sen. Doug Libla, R-Poplar Bluff, and similar House bills. It would raise the gas tax two cents a year for three years. Missouri's current gas tax of 17.3 cents would go up to 23.3 by 2018.

It is seen as a possible legislative solution to a restricted budget MoDOT faces as the result of voter rejection last fall of Amendment 7, a proposal that would have a three-quarter cent sales tax on gasoline for 10 years.
"In the wake of the defeat of Amendment 7, we're seeing our funding decline," said Frank Miller, district planning manager for the Southwest District of MoDOT, at a meeting Thursday of Joplin area transportation planners and city officials. MoDOT's pared down spending plan for upcoming years is called the 325 System.
Under that plan, construction spending would be reduced from $600 million now to $325 million in 2017. By then, the agency would not have enough money to obtain federal matching funds for highway projects ....

One reason for MoDOT's funding woes is that the state's gas tax of 17.3 cents has not kept pace with inflation, Miller said. There has not been an increase in gas tax here since 1996. In past years, soaring gas prices caused Missourians to cut back on driving, which reduced consumption and the resulting revenue from that tax. Increased vehicle fuel efficiency also is driving down the amount of gas sold.
Miller said MoDOT believes it's governing board, the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission, may endorse the 2+2+2 Plan.
That would raise the gas tax two cents a year for three years and then make automatic increases each year based on the consumer price index.

Holly Dentner, MoDOT's customer relations director, said it is a proposal that the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission may consider for endorsement, perhaps at its next meeting April 1.
MoDOT wants to push for immediate adoption of the gas tax law to limit the losses it will incur if the 325 System has to go into effect.
If the Legislature passes the fuel tax this session, collection of the tax would begin Jan. 1 and would begin to produce revenue that could increase subsequent MoDOT budgets.
According to MoDOT projections, the tax would provide $251 million in revenue in 2017, $84 million from the state tax and $167 million federal matching funds. In 2018, there could be $525 million raised, with $399 million of that in federal funds.
If it is not enacted, the state would give up $111 million in federal matching funds in 2017 and $119 [sic?] in 2018.

With construction on the Bella Vista Bypass scheduled during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period, the loss of federal matching funds in 2017 and 2018 could well have a direct impact on the BVB.

The drama continues with the BVB ..........
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 26, 2015, 11:34:19 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15)
This article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/work-to-begin-on-new-interstate-interchange/article_db351730-b6bf-11e4-867d-4397040ba5e8.html) reports that construction will begin on the interchange during the week of March 2 and that the construction should be completed in November

This TV video (http://www.fourstateshomepage.com/story/d/story/joplin-officials-break-ground-at-new-interchange/33741/4tZ5GGRsLU2kpr3TsMCVuw) reports on the groundbreaking ceremony that took place today and also reports that the new interchange should be completed by November 1, 2015.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 30, 2015, 11:12:17 AM
AASHTO has posted "Nation at a Crossroads" (https://invest.transportation.org/), an infographic that makes the case for Congress to get its act together and pass a long-term highway reauthorization bill that will allow state DOTs to plan and build new major highway projects.  The Bella Vista Bypass is included as one of Missouri's ten "critical projects" that could be addressed with a reauthorization ...
IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/Sec04f1aSWprojects.pdf) and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)
HOWEVER, this article (http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_stories/modot-seeks-approval-of-gas-tax-proposal/article_236235e6-d1b0-11e4-ad02-0b423f6ee8f6.html) reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:
Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan.
With construction on the Bella Vista Bypass scheduled during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period, the loss of federal matching funds in 2017 and 2018 could well have a direct impact on the BVB.
Quote
Bella Vista Bypass Not a Priority as Missouri Searches for Highway Money
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/mar/30/bella-vista-bypass-not-a-priority-as-mi/
(bottom quote from I-49 in Arkansas (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg2054166#msg2054166) thread)

The article linked by O Tamandua discusses the Bella Vista Bypass in Missouri:

Quote
Missouri highway officials are looking for money for roads but even if their latest proposal is successful, finishing the Bella Vista bypass doesn't appear to be on the state's list of priority projects, regional planners were told Wednesday.
"It doesn't look like there'll be enough money to do that," Andrew Seiler with the Missouri Department of Transportation told regional planners. "It will likely be pushed back."
Seiler's comment came in response to a question from Arkansas Highway Commission Chairman Dick Trammel about highway priorities in the region. Trammel said he was "deeply concerned" about getting the connection finished in a timely manner.
"I can't be critical if it's a financial problem because we're having those ourselves," Trammel said Friday. "But if it's a priority problem, I just hope they can see the expenditure and what we're doing, and then when they get in a position to they will include the Bella Vista bypass in their priorities because it's important to Missouri and Arkansas." ....
Seiler was in town to brief the Northwest Arkansas Regional Planning Commission on the "Show Me" state's highway funding pickle.
"If we don't do something now, the roads are going to get bad," Seiler said.
The Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission is expected to announce support for a transportation funding proposal that would increase the state's motor fuel tax by 2 cents a gallon each year for three years, totaling 6 cents a gallon, and then index the gas tax for inflation using the consumer price index.
Seiler said the move would generate sufficient revenue to allow MoDOT to match federal highway money, take care of the highway system at the current level, continue safety improvements and potentially allow for a few small regional improvements ....
"What I understood him to say is this 2+2+2 is just to maintain what they've got," Trammel said.

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind the Bella Vista Bypass being touted as a "critical project" in the "Nation at a Crossroads" infographic (in order to garner support for a long-term reauthorization) with "Bella Vista Bypass not a priority" even if 2+2+2 passes.  As far as I can tell, the "not a priority" article does not discuss the possibility/impact of a long-term reauthorization. My best guess (wishful thinking?) is that both 2+2+2 and a long-term reauthorization will need to pass before Missouri will reconsider proceeding with the Bella Vista Bypass.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2015, 05:46:20 PM
Missouri needs to apply for a 2015 Tiger Grant to help out on the Bypass.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on March 31, 2015, 01:34:05 PM
Missouri needs to apply for a 2015 Tiger Grant to help out on the Bypass.
If they want to get I-49 finished sooner, this is the ideal way.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on March 31, 2015, 05:30:44 PM
They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on March 31, 2015, 09:45:39 PM
They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.

I'm all for that, but honestly that would be second on my I-49 priorities.

1. BVB. In Arkansas the traffic is terrible and I haven't even personally driven on it myself.
2. Bruce D. Watkins.

The community got completely screwed by the highway. Does anyone have the whole story? I know that there is a court order and I have been following this thread for five years now, but everything is spreadout. Is there an article detailing the planning stages?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on March 31, 2015, 10:04:01 PM
I suspect that the possible upgrade of Bruce R. Watkins Drive to an interstate-grade facility is not even part of the agenda, but there is a photo of Bruce R. Watkins Drive on a page describing July 12 and July 17 Open Houses for the US 71 Transit Study (http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/projects/us71transitstudy.aspx)
There's seriously a court order ordering them to keep the road dangerous and inefficient?  Could you post a link?
The two KCUR stories linked in this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg305623;topicseen#msg305623) provide some good background information.
This article (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article6457356.html) reports that Bruce R. Watkins Drive (granted, a distant Future I-49 possibility) is not included in the primary system and will receive minimal maintenance
71 will be a freeway one day ... The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood ...
They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.

I recently came across a 52 minute May 29, 2014 KCUR (local NPR station) (http://kcur.org/post/highway-71-connecting-metro-dividing-neighborhoods) roundtable discussion that includes a MoDOT official, a Mid-America Regional Council (group that supports improved public transit options along the corridor) representative, and a lifelong resident of the neighborhood.  The MoDOT official states that Bruce R. Watkins Drive ("BRWD") is "safe" and that there is no current need to upgrade the corridor. The Mid-America Regional Council representative states that the transit study found that BRWD serves two distinct markets: local and regional, which are complementary, but different. He also states that there is currently a study to see if the reserve capacity of the shoulders could be used to give transit buses a "competitive advantage", possibly including a mechanism for the buses to bypass the three lights. He seems to believe that regional travelers could be persuaded to use the buses.

The comments of the lifelong resident are very interesting. He expresses the belief that racism played a large role in how his community has failed to thrive.  He goes beyond that lament to express his belief that there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" in formulating the BRWD compromise and that the compromise "doesn't serve the needs of anybody".  He also suggests that a "redo of the road" might help to improve his community, but that it would be very expensive.

Using the sample of one, it may be possible that today's community may be open to a "redo".  However, with MoDOT's current monetary woes making even basic maintenance of BRWD a challenge, an expensive "redo" probably is not even worth exploring at this time.

Here is a snip of a photo accompanying the roundtable discussion that includes a stoplight, the wide median, and the shoulders:

(http://i.imgur.com/EVEtoBz.jpg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on April 01, 2015, 09:36:58 AM
Grzrd,

Thank you so much. :clap: I completely agree with the "Serves the nobody" part. Everyone got screwed by the "compromise." :pan: I shall listen to the roundtable over the week end.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: amroad17 on April 11, 2015, 10:50:38 PM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on April 12, 2015, 07:37:51 PM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.

Bruce Watkins Drive is the way it is because of a court order. It's a long story.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on April 13, 2015, 08:01:41 PM
I'm just popping in to point out that call number C05 in the MoDOT construction letting of May 15, 2015 is for installation of Bugo's favorite type of interchange--a DDI--at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on April 17, 2015, 01:01:41 PM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.

Bruce Watkins Drive is the way it is because of a court order. It's a long story.
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on April 19, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.

Bruce Watkins Drive is the way it is because of a court order. It's a long story.
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.

It wouldn't matter even if local people wanted it upgraded to freeway. This state is too cheap and broke to improve it. Locals would probably be OK with making it freeway if they built a cut-and-cover tunnel. But that's more than the state would be willing to spend even if it were flush with cash.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 20, 2015, 05:23:28 PM
How many think the court order will ever be overturned? Me, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on April 20, 2015, 05:24:37 PM
How many think the court order will ever be overturned? Me, I'm not sure.
That court order is insane.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on April 20, 2015, 06:05:25 PM
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.
How many think the court order will ever be overturned? Me, I'm not sure.

In this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg77499#msg77499), there is some discussion about how MoDOT, in assessing the safety of Bruce R. Watkins Drive ("BRWD"), distinguishes between minor "rear-enders" with associated relatively minor injuries and wrecks that result in fatalities.  To make a long story short, BRWD has (as of 2010) a relatively high number of "rear-enders" but actually has fewer fatalities than other sections of US 71 in the KC area. As a result, MoDOT has probably concluded that it cannot approach the court to dissolve the order because it cannot make a strong enough case to assert that BRWD is inordinately unsafe.

As more time passes without major wrecks on BRWD resulting in fatalities, the less likely one bad wreck would present a strong enough case for MoDOT to go to the court.



71 will be a freeway one day ... The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood ...
a 52 minute May 29, 2014 KCUR (local NPR station) (http://kcur.org/post/highway-71-connecting-metro-dividing-neighborhoods) roundtable discussion that includes a MoDOT official, a Mid-America Regional Council (group that supports improved public transit options along the corridor) representative, and a lifelong resident of the neighborhood ....
The comments of the lifelong resident are very interesting. He expresses the belief that racism played a large role in how his community has failed to thrive.  He goes beyond that lament to express his belief that there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" in formulating the BRWD compromise and that the compromise "doesn't serve the needs of anybody".  He also suggests that a "redo of the road" might help to improve his community, but that it would be very expensive.
Using the sample of one, it may be possible that today's community may be open to a "redo".

I think it is more likely that attitudes in the community will change as time marches on, and that the community will eventually jointly approach the court with MoDOT to have the order dissolved.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on April 20, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.
How many think the court order will ever be overturned? Me, I'm not sure.

In this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg77499#msg77499), there is some discussion about how MoDOT, in assessing the safety of Bruce R. Watkins Drive ("BRWD"), distinguishes between minor "rear-enders" with associated relatively minor injuries and wrecks that result in fatalities.  To make a long story short, BRWD has (as of 2010) a relatively high number of "rear-enders" but actually has fewer fatalities than other sections of US 71 in the KC area. As a result, MoDOT has probably concluded that it cannot approach the court to dissolve the order because it cannot make a strong enough case to assert that BRWD is inordinately unsafe.

As more time passes without major wrecks on BRWD resulting in fatalities, the less likely one bad wreck would present a strong enough case for MoDOT to go to the court.

I don't follow your logic here.  If the overall trend is a low amount of fatalities, then wouldn't "the less likely one bad wreck" be a statistical outlier?  I wasn't aware statistical outliers were given that much weight in traffic engineering decisions.

If safety improvements are desired on the expressway portion of US 71/Bruce R. Watkins Drive, has anyone considered downgrading it from an expressway to a conventional road, instead of upgrading it from an expressway to a freeway?  If the reason for collisions on the expressway portion is drivers' expectations of high-speed traffic, then couldn't safety effectively be improved by reconfiguring the road in a way that removes such an expectation?

It seems fallacious to assume that the only way to improve the road is to convert it to a freeway.  Rather, there are several options worth exploring.  For instance, instead of converting it to a freeway, some of that land could potentially be used for infill development--if not in the present day, then perhaps at some point in the future.

Then again, if the rate of major collisions is relatively low, then perhaps it is acceptable to leave the road as an expressway.  The status quo is an option, too.

I don't think I-49 is going to die of heartbreak if it doesn't go to downtown Kansas City.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on April 21, 2015, 10:59:12 AM
As more time passes without major wrecks on BRWD resulting in fatalities, the less likely one bad wreck would present a strong enough case for MoDOT to go to the court.
I don't follow your logic here.  If the overall trend is a low amount of fatalities, then wouldn't "the less likely one bad wreck" be a statistical outlier?  I wasn't aware statistical outliers were given that much weight in traffic engineering decisions.

I am saying that one bad wreck resulting in fatalities would be a statistical outlier, which is why I believe MoDOT, after such a wreck, would be unlikely to present a case to the court that BRWD is unsafe enough to warrant dissolution of the court order.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: stridentweasel on April 21, 2015, 06:39:06 PM
As more time passes without major wrecks on BRWD resulting in fatalities, the less likely one bad wreck would present a strong enough case for MoDOT to go to the court.
I don't follow your logic here.  If the overall trend is a low amount of fatalities, then wouldn't "the less likely one bad wreck" be a statistical outlier?  I wasn't aware statistical outliers were given that much weight in traffic engineering decisions.

I am saying that one bad wreck resulting in fatalities would be a statistical outlier, which is why I believe MoDOT, after such a wreck, would be unlikely to present a case to the court that BRWD is unsafe enough to warrant dissolution of the court order.

I see what you're saying now.  I misunderstood that sentence the first time.  I thought "less likely" was modifying "one bad wreck," rather than modifying the action performed by "one bad wreck."  My bad for making an assumption.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bjrush on April 21, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.
How many think the court order will ever be overturned? Me, I'm not sure.

In this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg77499#msg77499), there is some discussion about how MoDOT, in assessing the safety of Bruce R. Watkins Drive ("BRWD"), distinguishes between minor "rear-enders" with associated relatively minor injuries and wrecks that result in fatalities.  To make a long story short, BRWD has (as of 2010) a relatively high number of "rear-enders" but actually has fewer fatalities than other sections of US 71 in the KC area. As a result, MoDOT has probably concluded that it cannot approach the court to dissolve the order because it cannot make a strong enough case to assert that BRWD is inordinately unsafe.

As more time passes without major wrecks on BRWD resulting in fatalities, the less likely one bad wreck would present a strong enough case for MoDOT to go to the court.

I don't follow your logic here.  If the overall trend is a low amount of fatalities, then wouldn't "the less likely one bad wreck" be a statistical outlier?  I wasn't aware statistical outliers were given that much weight in traffic engineering decisions.

If safety improvements are desired on the expressway portion of US 71/Bruce R. Watkins Drive, has anyone considered downgrading it from an expressway to a conventional road, instead of upgrading it from an expressway to a freeway?  If the reason for collisions on the expressway portion is drivers' expectations of high-speed traffic, then couldn't safety effectively be improved by reconfiguring the road in a way that removes such an expectation?

It seems fallacious to assume that the only way to improve the road is to convert it to a freeway.  Rather, there are several options worth exploring.  For instance, instead of converting it to a freeway, some of that land could potentially be used for infill development--if not in the present day, then perhaps at some point in the future.

Then again, if the rate of major collisions is relatively low, then perhaps it is acceptable to leave the road as an expressway.  The status quo is an option, too.

I don't think I-49 is going to die of heartbreak if it doesn't go to downtown Kansas City.

Outlier wrecks are only given weight when a commissioners daughters, etc are involved
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on April 21, 2015, 09:36:30 PM
I would imagine a big determining factor in what happens to Watkins Drive would be how the I-49 designation changes the traffic patterns in the Kansas City metro once the road is entirely complete. If traffic headed north on I-49 to NB I-35 and I-29 sticks to 435, expect to see BRWD stay the way it is. If, however, pass-through traffic remains on US-71 and connects to I-35 and I-29 downtown, traffic volumes may well make BRWD intolerable enough to the community, even without wrecks, that they swallow their remaining objections and request a freeway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bickendan on April 22, 2015, 11:05:27 AM
...not that I-35 north of downtown can really handle the added volume.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2015, 12:11:40 PM
I don't think the through-through traffic will be a dominating consideration because of Kansas City's size.  The proportion of traffic on a given highway that is through-through (i.e., has no destination in the city) goes down with city population, and (if memory serves) is under 1% for a conurbation of over 1 million.

In my mind, I-49 ending at the downtown loop and removing the remaining stoplights on Bruce R. Watkins Drive are separate issues.  I tend to agree with Grzrd that the stoplights will be removed when the community asks that this be done, probably to remove noise and pollution nuisance and after generational change.

There is something about having the downtown loop as a sort of "roundhouse" for I-35, I-29, and I-49 that seems really neat to the roadgeek mind, but I don't think the decisionmakers in MoDOT that would have to request extension of I-49 see the appeal now, or would even if the at-grades were removed.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on April 22, 2015, 01:56:51 PM
I don't think the through-through traffic will be a dominating consideration because of Kansas City's size.  The proportion of traffic on a given highway that is through-through (i.e., has no destination in the city) goes down with city population, and (if memory serves) is under 1% for a conurbation of over 1 million.

In my mind, I-49 ending at the downtown loop and removing the remaining stoplights on Bruce R. Watkins Drive are separate issues.  I tend to agree with Grzrd that the stoplights will be removed when the community asks that this be done, probably to remove noise and pollution nuisance and after generational change.

There is something about having the downtown loop as a sort of "roundhouse" for I-35, I-29, and I-49 that seems really neat to the roadgeek mind, but I don't think the decisionmakers in MoDOT that would have to request extension of I-49 see the appeal now, or would even if the at-grades were removed.
And then, there's the problem of having two separate 2di's ending in the same area. If US 71 were to be made into a complete freeway and I-49 extended north on it, there'd still be the argument of what to do with I-29. In a perfect world, it would be moved to what is now I-135 and allowed for a potential extension of I-49 further north, but that's a fictional matter that can be discussed at another time. And let's not forget that this same problem used to exist for I-44 and I-64 in St. Louis, but it no longer does largely due to both routes being extended up to I-70, which is rerouted in the former's case.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on April 23, 2015, 01:33:44 AM
There's no reason to renumber I-29. It would only cause confusion and would add no benefit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on April 27, 2015, 04:20:57 PM
Why can't neighborhood leaders, Kansas City's leaders and MoDOT think a little outside the box to solve this problem? The parties involved are just being really being block-headed rather than coming up with a solution that would be beneficial to all.

Granted, little if anything can be done about it right now with Missouri's road funding woes (not to mention the funding problem on the federal end of things). But if the funds were there to build I-49 through to downtown there are ways of getting it done without the highway acting as a barrier.

The most effective, realistic method would be putting the highway into a trench and covering portions of it where the current traffic lights and pedestrian crossing exist. Things like park land, green spaces and even buildings with businesses could be built over the top of the highway. It would not be all that difficult to literally hide the highway from the neighborhood. There are good examples of this approach in other cities.

Klyde Warren Park in downtown Dallas is a great, although expensive example. It covers Woodall Rodgers Freeway for three blocks with park land and even a couple buildings. That park creates more of a walk-able link with the neighborhood North of downtown Dallas.

Columbus, OH has another good example at the N. High Street bridge over I-670. The bridge was widened to fit bars, coffee shops and restaurants onto both sides of the street, hiding I-670 and effectively removing a visual barrier between two halves of a night life district.

Seattle has a few spots where park land covers up Interstate highway. There are two spots on Mercer Island where I-90 is covered by parks. Park on the Lid covers I-90 for half a mile. The other seven bridges over I-90 on Mercer Island are extra wide to include landscaping space for trees, bushes and sidewalks, making the highway less of a barrier for pedestrians and bicyclists. Washington State Convention Center and Freeway Park cover up parts of I-5 in downtown Seattle. A few intersections going over the 520 toll road are wide roundabouts with lots of room for bike/ped access.

Kansas City could actually solve this problem and have a nice landmark at that point on Bruce Watkins Drive rather than a ridiculous, crash prone bottleneck.



Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bickendan on April 27, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
Even Portland was considering putting a lid over I-405 while Vera Katz was mayor. It's not a bad idea, though I'd like to see the Stadium widened to six lanes between US 26 and NW Everett/Glisan before it gets capped -- and that could be insanely difficult.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Atomica on May 02, 2015, 03:28:04 AM
I think that US71 could be converted completely into a freeway - BUT - it would require some unorthodox work.
The at-grade crossings controlled with traffic signals could be eliminated - IF - the following were done:

55th Street and Gregory Blvd - Overcrossings were built for US71 traffic.  Meaning offramps and onramps would have to be built for those streets.  Signals on each of those would have to be put in place.  Perhaps with the wide medians it is better they be LEFT exits.  As undesirable as left-hand ramps are - they would work very well in this situation, even if they resembled the I-244 through the east side of Tulsa.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on May 03, 2015, 03:35:04 AM
I think that US71 could be converted completely into a freeway - BUT - it would require some unorthodox work.
The at-grade crossings controlled with traffic signals could be eliminated - IF - the following were done:

55th Street and Gregory Blvd - Overcrossings were built for US71 traffic.  Meaning offramps and onramps would have to be built for those streets.  Signals on each of those would have to be put in place.  Perhaps with the wide medians it is better they be LEFT exits.  As undesirable as left-hand ramps are - they would work very well in this situation, even if they resembled the I-244 through the east side of Tulsa.

Shut up, Steve Gum.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Atomica on May 03, 2015, 03:59:49 AM
Who is Steve Gum?  I don't know who Steve Gum is.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on May 03, 2015, 09:08:38 PM

I don't follow your logic here.  If the overall trend is a low amount of fatalities, then wouldn't "the less likely one bad wreck" be a statistical outlier?  I wasn't aware statistical outliers were given that much weight in traffic engineering decisions.

If safety improvements are desired on the expressway portion of US 71/Bruce R. Watkins Drive, has anyone considered downgrading it from an expressway to a conventional road, instead of upgrading it from an expressway to a freeway?  If the reason for collisions on the expressway portion is drivers' expectations of high-speed traffic, then couldn't safety effectively be improved by reconfiguring the road in a way that removes such an expectation?

It seems fallacious to assume that the only way to improve the road is to convert it to a freeway.  Rather, there are several options worth exploring.  For instance, instead of converting it to a freeway, some of that land could potentially be used for infill development--if not in the present day, then perhaps at some point in the future.

Then again, if the rate of major collisions is relatively low, then perhaps it is acceptable to leave the road as an expressway.  The status quo is an option, too.

I don't think I-49 is going to die of heartbreak if it doesn't go to downtown Kansas City.

Problem is, though....the remaining segments of US 71/Bruce Watkins Drive are already freeway. Only these sections are the anomaly. It's not a good thing to transition a road from freeway to expressway to local arterial and then back again.

Quote
The most effective, realistic method would be putting the highway into a trench and covering portions of it where the current traffic lights and pedestrian crossing exist. Things like park land, green spaces and even buildings with businesses could be built over the top of the highway. It would not be all that difficult to literally hide the highway from the neighborhood. There are good examples of this approach in other cities.

From the photo I saw in this thread, topography would rule out a cut-and-cover/cap approach. Elevated with special features to soften the impact would be the best solution. Maybe the community of KC would like to pay a visit to Lafayette and witness the I-49 Connector design/corridor study for a decent template?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Atomica on May 03, 2015, 11:55:03 PM
Or could Modot do what ODOT did in Tulsa when they built the I-244, but with overcrossings for US71/Watkins traffic and left-hand onramps and offramps?  Besides, there would be need for only one signalised intersection - the left ramps would act as a second street, but all of the traffic on and off US71 would go through those ramps at 55th and Gregory. 
Also, I note that there are side streets off the side that are right turn off and on only.  An extra 250yd lane each way would not hurt - there would be ample space to slow from 55 to 15mi/h and accelerate vice versa, especially with more modern vehicles capable of faster acceleration rates...even IF it has an Arroyo Seco effect.  Keeping trucks off those exits to 53d and 57th (I think that's where they are) would also help.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 05, 2015, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JK
From the photo I saw in this thread, topography would rule out a cut-and-cover/cap approach. Elevated with special features to soften the impact would be the best solution. Maybe the community of KC would like to pay a visit to Lafayette and witness the I-49 Connector design/corridor study for a decent template?

Take a look at the topography of Mercer Island in Seattle. The heavily landscaped lids over I-90, particularly the half mile long Park on the Lid, negotiate through some very hilly, irregular territory. Add to that the more complex nature of I-90 with both separate local and express/HOV lanes.

The 55th Street intersection along Bruce Watkins Drive has a decent sized hill on the South side. The 59th Street intersection isn't level, but it's not really bad either, just a bit of an incline. There is a greater incline going Southbound at the Gregory Blvd. intersection. Even with the sloping incline, the cut/cover/landscape approach would still work. There would be a pretty good chunk of earth to remove, but it's nothing unusual. I saw just as much, if not more hillside removed with the I-44 expansion in Tulsa East of the Arkansas River. The construction process would be pretty unsightly (but not very disruptive), but the end result would be really nice. Short tunnels under Gregory and 55th would be another option, but more expensive and limiting in terms of capacity for adding lanes.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on May 05, 2015, 06:53:25 PM
If (when) they convert the Watkins Deathway to a freeway, it will be built in the middle of the current road (which is basically a pair of one way frontage roads). It was designed with this in mind.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 06, 2015, 12:36:35 AM
Agreed, the often debated freeway obviously would be built inside that large median between the two frontage roads that have pretended to be the mainline lanes for many years. The three intersections spanning over the freeway just need to be re-designed more intelligently. That way everyone can be happy. I would even go so far as to say MoDOT and Kansas City could sweeten the deal by capping the freeway with some extra park land or green space in another spot or two.

Right now, that wide median in the middle of Bruce Watkins Drive is serving no other purpose than a place for trees and other stuff to grow randomly. The land isn't being used by anything else. That unused space, along with the heavy, freeway oriented traffic is already creating a serious barrier for walkability. That zone would actually be more walk-able if a freeway was diverting the thru traffic off of those surface frontage road streets.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on May 06, 2015, 03:32:37 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK
From the photo I saw in this thread, topography would rule out a cut-and-cover/cap approach. Elevated with special features to soften the impact would be the best solution. Maybe the community of KC would like to pay a visit to Lafayette and witness the I-49 Connector design/corridor study for a decent template?

Take a look at the topography of Mercer Island in Seattle. The heavily landscaped lids over I-90, particularly the half mile long Park on the Lid, negotiate through some very hilly, irregular territory. Add to that the more complex nature of I-90 with both separate local and express/HOV lanes.

The 55th Street intersection along Bruce Watkins Drive has a decent sized hill on the South side. The 59th Street intersection isn't level, but it's not really bad either, just a bit of an incline. There is a greater incline going Southbound at the Gregory Blvd. intersection. Even with the sloping incline, the cut/cover/landscape approach would still work. There would be a pretty good chunk of earth to remove, but it's nothing unusual. I saw just as much, if not more hillside removed with the I-44 expansion in Tulsa East of the Arkansas River. The construction process would be pretty unsightly (but not very disruptive), but the end result would be really nice. Short tunnels under Gregory and 55th would be another option, but more expensive and limiting in terms of capacity for adding lanes.

But, wouldn't you still have to level the grade even in the sloped sections in order to make the cap/landscape approach work? That would probably require some work in leveling the frontage roads, which could possibly cut into the cross streets....increasing the ROW impact, the residential takings, and the costs.

I'd say that a decent compromise is to stick with an elevated overpass for the Gregory Blvd section, and an extended overpass for the 59th to 53rd Street segment; with the freeway mainlines at grade in between. You could use Context Sensitive Solution design and asthetics to ease the visual impact through walkways, greenscaping, and provisions for public transportation (mostly, buses). Having the through traffic removed from the surface roads would be in and of itself a major safety relief. And, it would be much cheaper than a cap or a depressed freeway, and quicker to construct.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 06, 2015, 11:57:58 PM
Quote
But, wouldn't you still have to level the grade even in the sloped sections in order to make the cap/landscape approach work? That would probably require some work in leveling the frontage roads, which could possibly cut into the cross streets....increasing the ROW impact, the residential takings, and the costs.

There is already more than enough ROW in the median for a new freeway. Existing buildings and the existing lanes of US-71 would not need to be displaced regardless of whether a new I-49 freeway was dug into a trench, built at-grade or even elevated.

The new freeway, with this build and cap concept, would have to be dug into a trench. It doesn't matter if the freeway is running perfectly level, just as long as it in a deep enough trench to give an existing intersection enough clearance.

A lot of earth in the median would certainly have to be moved, but digging and grading work on that scale is pretty routine with all sorts of superhighway projects. I can recall the expansion of TX-114 West of Grapevine back in the late 1990's. I've stopped for fuel at a 7-Eleven on the corner of N. Carroll Ave. and TX-114. That used to be an at grade intersection. Now TX-114 is a freeway that's at least 17' to 20' below the previous grade of TX-114.

Quote
I'd say that a decent compromise is to stick with an elevated overpass for the Gregory Blvd section, and an extended overpass for the 59th to 53rd Street segment; with the freeway mainlines at grade in between.

The anti-freeway types and other activists aren't going to go for that because the freeway in that type of design would still be a significant barrier for people on foot, bicycles, etc. Visually it would create more of a divide than the one that already exists along US-71 there. I can only see people in that part of Kansas City allowing the freeway to be built in that manner if there was a rash of fatality accidents at those 3 busy intersections.

Make no mistake, digging out and building a below-grade superhighway and creating three or more large, landscaped caps would not be cheap. It would be quite a bit more expensive than the more conventional approach (at grade main lanes with overpasses at the intersections). That extra expense might make the difference between the road being built or not at all.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 07, 2015, 11:32:58 AM
MoDOT draft STIP released. http://modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/index.htm

Looks like Bella Vista Bypass has been pushed back to 2019-2020 year (see Page 11 of attached link)  :banghead:
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/documents/Sec046aSWRuralPaymentsandProjects.pdf
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on May 07, 2015, 06:35:13 PM
There have been numerous fatalities on the Watkins Deathway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 08, 2015, 11:35:46 PM
MoDOT draft STIP released. http://modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/index.htm

Looks like Bella Vista Bypass has been pushed back to 2019-2020 year (see Page 11 of attached link)  :banghead:
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/documents/Sec046aSWRuralPaymentsandProjects.pdf

Surprise of the century? :bigass:

/s I agree though  :pan:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 08, 2015, 11:50:05 PM
MoDOT draft STIP released. http://modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/index.htm

Looks like Bella Vista Bypass has been pushed back to 2019-2020 year (see Page 11 of attached link)  :banghead:
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/documents/Sec046aSWRuralPaymentsandProjects.pdf

Surprise of the century? :bigass:

/s I agree though  :pan:

Not really surprised. They have been saying for the last couple of months that they can only afford to do maintenance on their existing system.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 12, 2015, 12:47:34 PM
The only hope for finishing the Belle Vista bypass inside of this decade is the federal government getting involved (whipping out the checkbook, that is).

As for the Bruce Watkins "deathway," yes there have been fatal accidents there, and lots and lots of non-fatal fender benders. The thing I was talking about in terms of a "rash of fatal accidents" is if something really grisly happened, either a horrible single incident with numerous fatalities or a series of them happening in short succession. If some really bloody incident grabbed national headlines that would probably fast-track those at grade intersections getting replaced with freeway exits.

Down here in Oklahoma the concrete Jersey barrier that divides the two roadways on I-44 from Medicine Park up to the Missouri State Line was built shortly after a multiple fatality collision near the Elgin, OK exit. I'm not 100% positive the fatal accident was what got the barrier built, but the timing of it was interesting. It pissed me off ODOT didn't build the Jersey barrier on I-44 South of Lawton down to the Red River. It was only about 18 years later they finally built a cable barrier. BTW, I'm not all that convinced the cable barriers work; there has been a couple accidents on I-44 in Lawton involving vehicles (a rental truck in one case) going right through the cable barrier and across opposing lanes. The cable barriers cost about half the price of a concrete Jersey barrier.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on May 12, 2015, 03:52:16 PM
The Indian Nation Turnpike and the Muskogee Turnpike "east" (really south) of Muskogee lack the Jersey barriers. They still have the original raised grassy median and zero left shoulders.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 12, 2015, 05:52:17 PM
I guess not enough people have been killed in head-on collisions on the Indian Nation Turnpike and Muskogee Turnpike to get those barriers built. Not yet anyway.
:-/

I'm surprised they don't even have cable barriers, but then they're not Interstate labeled roads either.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: dfwmapper on May 13, 2015, 12:11:35 AM
I believe OTA is slowly working on installing cable barriers across some of their more dangerous roads. I drove up to Tulsa and back a few weeks ago and there were some sections of the Indian Nation Turnpike that had work being done that looked like prep work for cable barrier installation.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 21, 2015, 02:16:31 PM
this article (http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_stories/modot-seeks-approval-of-gas-tax-proposal/article_236235e6-d1b0-11e4-ad02-0b423f6ee8f6.html) reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:
Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan ....
If it is not enacted, the state would give up $111 million in federal matching funds in 2017 and $119 [sic?] in 2018.

This May 19 article (http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/funding-for-missouri-transportation-in-2016/81431/s8a9KDT_CEKqbefg1XVxdQ) reports that, during the session that just ended, the Missouri legislature did not pass a bill that would raise the state gas tax and the article also mentions the possible loss of federal matching funds in 2017:

Quote
Funding for Missouri’s roads and bridges is expected to be an important topic next year in the Missouri legislature.
Missouri lawmakers considered several versions of a bill to raise the state’s gas tax to support the transportation infrastructure, but none of those passed before the Legislative session ended Friday. 
A general lack of consensus on how to fund transportation, coupled with more than two days of holding up debate by Senate Democrats, effectively killed those proposals.
The new Speaker of the House, Todd Richardson (R-Poplar Bluff), elected by the body on Friday, says the issue will be a priority in 2016.
“We have a good team that’s going to be working on what those proposals are going to be and will be ready to come forward with solutions in January.” ....
Senate Majority Floor Leader Ron Richard (R-Joplin) said he thinks the transportation bill was the most significant proposal that wasn’t passed.
“We had a dialogue, but couldn’t get it through the line,” said Richard.
The Governor, in the final weeks of the session, called on lawmakers to send him a gax tax increase proposal, but time ran out.  Missouri could lose millions of dollars in federal matching funds in 2017 if a transportation bill is not passed.

On to 2016 ..........
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on May 21, 2015, 08:37:16 PM
this article (http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_stories/modot-seeks-approval-of-gas-tax-proposal/article_236235e6-d1b0-11e4-ad02-0b423f6ee8f6.html) reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:
Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan ....
If it is not enacted, the state would give up $111 million in federal matching funds in 2017 and $119 [sic?] in 2018.

This May 19 article (http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/funding-for-missouri-transportation-in-2016/81431/s8a9KDT_CEKqbefg1XVxdQ) reports that, during the session that just ended, the Missouri legislature did not pass a bill that would raise the state gas tax and the article also mentions the possible loss of federal matching funds in 2017:

Quote
Funding for Missouri’s roads and bridges is expected to be an important topic next year in the Missouri legislature.
Missouri lawmakers considered several versions of a bill to raise the state’s gas tax to support the transportation infrastructure, but none of those passed before the Legislative session ended Friday. 
A general lack of consensus on how to fund transportation, coupled with more than two days of holding up debate by Senate Democrats, effectively killed those proposals.
The new Speaker of the House, Todd Richardson (R-Poplar Bluff), elected by the body on Friday, says the issue will be a priority in 2016.
“We have a good team that’s going to be working on what those proposals are going to be and will be ready to come forward with solutions in January.” ....
Senate Majority Floor Leader Ron Richard (R-Joplin) said he thinks the transportation bill was the most significant proposal that wasn’t passed.
“We had a dialogue, but couldn’t get it through the line,” said Richard.
The Governor, in the final weeks of the session, called on lawmakers to send him a gax tax increase proposal, but time ran out.  Missouri could lose millions of dollars in federal matching funds in 2017 if a transportation bill is not passed.

On to 2016 ..........

I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 21, 2015, 08:38:40 PM
this article (http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_stories/modot-seeks-approval-of-gas-tax-proposal/article_236235e6-d1b0-11e4-ad02-0b423f6ee8f6.html) reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:
Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan ....
If it is not enacted, the state would give up $111 million in federal matching funds in 2017 and $119 [sic?] in 2018.

This May 19 article (http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/funding-for-missouri-transportation-in-2016/81431/s8a9KDT_CEKqbefg1XVxdQ) reports that, during the session that just ended, the Missouri legislature did not pass a bill that would raise the state gas tax and the article also mentions the possible loss of federal matching funds in 2017:

Quote
Funding for Missouri’s roads and bridges is expected to be an important topic next year in the Missouri legislature.
Missouri lawmakers considered several versions of a bill to raise the state’s gas tax to support the transportation infrastructure, but none of those passed before the Legislative session ended Friday. 
A general lack of consensus on how to fund transportation, coupled with more than two days of holding up debate by Senate Democrats, effectively killed those proposals.
The new Speaker of the House, Todd Richardson (R-Poplar Bluff), elected by the body on Friday, says the issue will be a priority in 2016.
“We have a good team that’s going to be working on what those proposals are going to be and will be ready to come forward with solutions in January.” ....
Senate Majority Floor Leader Ron Richard (R-Joplin) said he thinks the transportation bill was the most significant proposal that wasn’t passed.
“We had a dialogue, but couldn’t get it through the line,” said Richard.
The Governor, in the final weeks of the session, called on lawmakers to send him a gax tax increase proposal, but time ran out.  Missouri could lose millions of dollars in federal matching funds in 2017 if a transportation bill is not passed.

On to 2016 ..........

I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:
Missouri isn't alone
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 23, 2015, 08:14:58 PM
I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:

And we have one of the lowest gas taxes in the country. It makes 0 sense.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on May 23, 2015, 10:43:30 PM
I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:

And we have one of the lowest gas taxes in the country. It makes 0 sense.

Could be worse, could be next door in Illinois with one of the higher gas taxes in the country, and still not enough money to do anything.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on May 23, 2015, 11:34:26 PM

I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:

U.S. Rep. Bruce Westerman of Arkansas has a  plan (http://swtimes.com/business/proposal-swaps-medicaid-expansion-highway-trust-fund) .
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on May 24, 2015, 12:46:15 AM

I sometimes can't believe the people in my state are so stupid. It's not complicated. Roads cost money to build.  :banghead:

U.S. Rep. Bruce Westerman of Arkansas has a  plan (http://swtimes.com/business/proposal-swaps-medicaid-expansion-highway-trust-fund) .

 :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 24, 2015, 08:26:46 AM
Fuck that guy, that's such bullshit.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: noelbotevera on May 29, 2015, 10:25:38 PM
Simple solution to fufill these problems: Slap on I-49 shields on the BVB anyway. Put a detour route to link the sections. Done.

Problem #2 - South of KC
Alright, then just slap the I-49 shields on anyway! There's been traffic lights in our system forever, we're gonna have some more additional traffic lights to our Interstate system. Boom. Solved. Unless they do the Chicago way, or just go Bruce Willis, have no mercy, and just do the construction (brute force).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 29, 2015, 10:28:44 PM
Simple solution to fufill these problems: Slap on I-49 shields on the BVB anyway. Put a detour route to link the sections. Done.

Problem #2 - South of KC
Alright, then just slap the I-49 shields on anyway! There's been traffic lights in our system forever, we're gonna have some more additional traffic lights to our Interstate system. Boom. Solved. Unless they do the Chicago way, or just go Bruce Willis, have no mercy, and just do the construction (brute force).
It will be just like i-78 in nj
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: noelbotevera on May 29, 2015, 10:30:43 PM
Simple solution to fufill these problems: Slap on I-49 shields on the BVB anyway. Put a detour route to link the sections. Done.

Problem #2 - South of KC
Alright, then just slap the I-49 shields on anyway! There's been traffic lights in our system forever, we're gonna have some more additional traffic lights to our Interstate system. Boom. Solved. Unless they do the Chicago way, or just go Bruce Willis, have no mercy, and just do the construction (brute force).
It will be just like i-78 in nj
If we have dealt with traffic lights in our system for almost 60 years, then by GOD we WILL deal with traffic lights for 60 more years!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on May 30, 2015, 07:46:28 PM
You could slap shields on the Bella Vista section of US-71, but that doesn't solve the traffic problems the lights cause.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Lyon Wonder on May 30, 2015, 11:31:04 PM
You could slap shields on the Bella Vista section of US-71, but that doesn't solve the traffic problems the lights cause.

They could sign the Bella Vista section of US 71 as either "To I-49" or "Temp I-49".
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on May 30, 2015, 11:46:58 PM
Simple solution to fufill these problems: Slap on I-49 shields on the BVB anyway. Put a detour route to link the sections. Done.

Problem #2 - South of KC
Alright, then just slap the I-49 shields on anyway! There's been traffic lights in our system forever, we're gonna have some more additional traffic lights to our Interstate system. Boom. Solved. Unless they do the Chicago way, or just go Bruce Willis, have no mercy, and just do the construction (brute force).
It will be just like i-78 in nj

Not to mention Breezewood and the crazy s&!¥ in downtown Philly.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2015, 05:44:24 AM
You could slap shields on the Bella Vista section of US-71, but that doesn't solve the traffic problems the lights cause.

They could sign the Bella Vista section of US 71 as either "To I-49" or "Temp I-49".

...Again, you could do that. But the problem is that Bella Vista is hell to drive through, not what the road is posted as. That's why the BVB needs to be built, regardless of what you sign US-71 as.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: noelbotevera on June 01, 2015, 08:20:30 PM
You could slap shields on the Bella Vista section of US-71, but that doesn't solve the traffic problems the lights cause.

They could sign the Bella Vista section of US 71 as either "To I-49" or "Temp I-49".

...Again, you could do that. But the problem is that Bella Vista is hell to drive through, not what the road is posted as. That's why the BVB needs to be built, regardless of what you sign US-71 as.
Traffic is already heavy in Breezewood, why not again further out west?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Brandon on June 02, 2015, 03:21:53 PM
Simple solution to fufill these problems: Slap on I-49 shields on the BVB anyway. Put a detour route to link the sections. Done.

Problem #2 - South of KC
Alright, then just slap the I-49 shields on anyway! There's been traffic lights in our system forever, we're gonna have some more additional traffic lights to our Interstate system. Boom. Solved. Unless they do the Chicago way, or just go Bruce Willis, have no mercy, and just do the construction (brute force).

The Chicago Way would be to carve a bunch of Xs in the road after Midnight, a la Meigs Field.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Atomica on June 06, 2015, 03:04:37 AM
If (when) they convert the Watkins Deathway to a freeway, it will be built in the middle of the current road (which is basically a pair of one way frontage roads). It was designed with this in mind.

That would not be uncalled for:  That is a rather wide median for a start.  Slip roads on and off the main carriageways would be akin to the stretch of the I-49 south of the junction with the I-435 and the I-470 - and those medians could easily support at least three lanes of traffic.  Perhaps frontage roads with slip roads between overcrossings would be appropriate - but even simple overcrossings and left onramps and left offramps would still be an improvement.  Maybe taking a parallel street along Watkins Drive on each side and making it one-way could work.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 06, 2015, 04:27:31 AM
Nothing is going to change until the racists in that neighborhood either move or die off. Then it will be a freeway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: DeaconG on June 07, 2015, 11:31:06 AM
Nothing is going to change until the hardheads in that neighborhood either move or die off. Then it will be a freeway.

FTFY.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rte66man on June 07, 2015, 06:20:43 PM
Nothing is going to change until the people who live there and have the most at stake in that neighborhood either move or die off. Then it will be a freeway.

FTFY.

FTFY2
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on June 07, 2015, 09:29:57 PM
Nothing is going to change until the people in that neighborhood understand what happened. Then it will be a freeway.

FTFY.

FTFY2

FTFY3

I'm an optimist, and I can see both sides got screwed over.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: DeaconG on June 07, 2015, 10:11:45 PM
There has to be consensus on this issue.

The people who live there need to be assured that their neighborhood isn't going to be heavily impacted by the coming of I-49, at the same time they need to understand that not building I-49 through their neighborhood has socioeconomic repercussions of it's own.

I seem to remember that one of the individuals in the neighborhood who was against I-49, when asked about the accidents and the impact that not having I-49 there was causing said something along the lines of "Maybe they should find another way to work", which didn't sit well with me because as far as I was concerned this person was grandstanding to make themselves look good and didn't care about the neighborhood he said he represented.

It's going to happen eventually...you just need people on both sides to sit down and say "Look, let's try to make this a win-win situation instead of a confrontational one."
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on June 07, 2015, 10:46:37 PM


Nothing is going to change until the people in that neighborhood are placed in one of these quote boxes and edited by a bunch of different people. Then it will be a freeway.

FTFY.

FTFY2

FTFY3

I'm an optimist, and I can see both sides got screwed over.

FTFY4
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on June 08, 2015, 07:14:08 AM


Nothing is going to change until the people in that neighborhood are placed in one of these quote boxes and edited by a bunch of different people. Then it will be a freeway.

(http://i.imgur.com/OoibZHf.gif)

Although, should we have a separate Bruce R Watikins Dr Thread? I can almost always count on the thread to shit on it every so often.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 08, 2015, 08:20:00 AM

It's going to happen eventually...you just need people on both sides to sit down and say "Look, let's try to make this a win-win situation instead of a confrontational one."
That would be the best solution IF people would remain reasonable.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bugo on June 08, 2015, 09:32:01 AM
I was looking at classic Google Maps while I still could and got to thinking: Why not connect all of the BL 49s in southwestern Missouri together to make a long mega-business route? It would begin at I-49 in Pineville at the Route H interchange, follow H to US 71B which it would follow north to Goodman, MO 59 to Neosho, BL 49 and MO 175 to Tipton Ford, then BL 49 to Carthage. It would be over 50 miles long (would this be the longest business loop in the country?) The stretch of US 71B from US 71 south of Pineville to Route H could be renumbered to a lettered route or US 71B could just be left as is. If US 71 is rerouted to the Bella Vista bypass, BL 49 could follow what is now US 71 to Bentonville, where it would follow US 71B to some point on the south side of Fayetteville. That would make a hell of a business highway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: english si on June 08, 2015, 09:34:06 AM
^^ or you just call it US71 - NC style!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bjrush on October 04, 2015, 10:32:11 PM
I was looking at classic Google Maps while I still could and got to thinking: Why not connect all of the BL 49s in southwestern Missouri together to make a long mega-business route? It would begin at I-49 in Pineville at the Route H interchange, follow H to US 71B which it would follow north to Goodman, MO 59 to Neosho, BL 49 and MO 175 to Tipton Ford, then BL 49 to Carthage. It would be over 50 miles long (would this be the longest business loop in the country?) The stretch of US 71B from US 71 south of Pineville to Route H could be renumbered to a lettered route or US 71B could just be left as is. If US 71 is rerouted to the Bella Vista bypass, BL 49 could follow what is now US 71 to Bentonville, where it would follow US 71B to some point on the south side of Fayetteville. That would make a hell of a business highway.

I don't see Arkansas initiating its first BL any time soon
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: codyg1985 on October 05, 2015, 08:51:04 AM
If Arkansas did interstate business loops, it would be funny if they tried to do a I-49B like they do for their US and state route business loops. Or, if they did I-49B, but put it inside of a green business interstate shield.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on October 05, 2015, 10:16:48 AM
If Arkansas did interstate business loops, it would be funny if they tried to do a I-49B like they do for their US and state route business loops. Or, if they did I-49B, but put it inside of a green business interstate shield.

There is an opportunity to do it, but I have my doubts, at least for now.  There was a BL 30 in Little Rock once, but it no longer exists
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on October 30, 2015, 09:31:42 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/news_and_information/District8Release.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=189470) regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=prigmore+avenue+joplin+mo&hl=en&ll=37.066958,-94.405518&spn=0.026504,0.038409&sll=33.767713,-84.420604&sspn=0.441804,0.614548&t=h&hq=prigmore+avenue&hnear=Joplin,+Jasper,+Missouri&z=15)
This article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/work-to-begin-on-new-interstate-interchange/article_db351730-b6bf-11e4-867d-4397040ba5e8.html) reports that construction will begin on the interchange during the week of March 2 and that the construction should be completed in November
This TV video (http://www.fourstateshomepage.com/story/d/story/joplin-officials-break-ground-at-new-interchange/33741/4tZ5GGRsLU2kpr3TsMCVuw) reports on the groundbreaking ceremony that took place today and also reports that the new interchange should be completed by November 1, 2015.

This MoDOT Southwest District News Release (http://www.modot.org/southwest/) announces that the Prigmor Avenue (CR 190) interchange on I-44/49 opened to traffic on October 30 and that there will be a ribbon-cutting ceremony at 2:00 p.m. on November 2:

Quote
The new interchange over I-44/I-49 at Prigmor Avenue (CR 190) is OPEN to traffic as of Friday, Oct. 30.
A ribbon-cutting ceremony hosted by the City of Joplin and the Joplin Area Chamber of Commerce is scheduled for 2 p.m., Monday, Nov. 2, at Prigmor Avenue (CR 190) and Apple Road.

This October 29 article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/new-i--interchange-ready-for-traffic-to-roll/article_a99388fb-0488-5c4a-82e9-f0e64593260b.html) also reports on the opening of the interchange:

Quote
A new interstate interchange at County Road 190, which also is Prigmor Avenue — just west of County Road 180 — will open Friday ....
Russell Olds, mayor of Duenweg. "This could mean big things for us.''
Olds said the interchange, which has truck-friendly roundabouts on both sides of the new bridge that spans Interstate 44, could attract retail growth to the town of 1,350 people ....
The $8.6 million interchange project, a cooperative effort of the state, Jasper County, Joplin and Duenweg, is the last major MoDOT construction project in the region to be undertaken under current plans because of declining revenues. The state fuel tax rate has not increased in about 20 years, and last year voters defeated a sales tax to pay for transportation projects.
Emery Sapp & Sons Construction, of Columbia, was the primary contractor on the interchange work.

Next up is the wait for Bella Vista Bypass funding.  Perhaps if Congress passes a long-term reauthorization by November 20, then Missouri might find a state-level transportation funding solution.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Road Hog on November 23, 2015, 06:54:38 PM
If Arkansas did interstate business loops, it would be funny if they tried to do a I-49B like they do for their US and state route business loops. Or, if they did I-49B, but put it inside of a green business interstate shield.

There is an opportunity to do it, but I have my doubts, at least for now.  There was a BL 30 in Little Rock once, but it no longer exists

Conway had a BL 40 too, IIRC.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: andy3175 on November 26, 2015, 12:26:47 AM
Conway had a BL 40 too, IIRC.

Was this what is now U.S. 65B (Business U.S. 65)?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on December 05, 2015, 07:01:07 PM
Next up is the wait for Bella Vista Bypass funding.  Perhaps if Congress passes a long-term reauthorization by November 20, then Missouri might find a state-level transportation funding solution.

Your turn Missouri. LET'S DO THIS!!!!!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 12, 2015, 09:51:46 AM
MoDOT now has an A New Interchange at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar webpage (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/211thStreet.htm), which indicates that there will be an Open house public hearing on August 20 and that construction is scheduled to start in Spring 2015.  The page also has an Aerial view (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/documents/J4P2247_ConceptPlan_211th_I49_Interchange.pdf) of the project.
I'm just popping in to point out that call number C05 in the MoDOT construction letting of May 15, 2015 is for installation of Bugo's favorite type of interchange--a DDI--at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar.

This article (http://www.demo-mo.com/2015/12/02/28788/peculiar-interchange-project-progressing.html) reports that the Peculiar interchange project is ahead of schedule:

Quote
The 211th Street interchange project in Peculiar is ahead of schedule, thanks to the weather.
City Administrator Brad Ratliff said little rain in September and October has allowed for the quick work off Interstate 49.

Ratliff explained that the piers going in now over the highway were scheduled to be installed the first of February. “So they’re working ahead of schedule,” Ratliff said.
Though as the quick work is partially due to the weather, a slow down is just as vulnerable to precipitation and cold.
By contract, the project is scheduled to be complete by November 2016, but Ratliff is hoping this initial progress will continue.
“Our hope is that the weather does cooperate and that they have it open by the time school is starts,” Ratliff said.
The interchange, about 2 miles north of Peculiar’s only other off-ramp from I-49, will cost the city about $6 million in 2015 and 2016, and another $6 million in funds will come from grants ....
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 14, 2015, 08:33:08 AM
Next up is the wait for Bella Vista Bypass funding.  Perhaps if Congress passes a long-term reauthorization by November 20, then Missouri might find a state-level transportation funding solution.
Your turn Missouri. LET'S DO THIS!!!!!

This December 8 Joplin Globe editorial entitled Our View: It's Missouri's turn now (http://www.joplinglobe.com/opinion/columns/our-view-it-s-missouri-s-turn-now/article_31b2f887-cca9-5d0f-811b-ec2deb04274d.html) agrees with you, mvak36:

Quote
If Congress can do it, Missouri can, too.
What Congress did is pass a bill — a $305 billion bill — that funds federal highway and transportation projects for the next five years ....
Now, it’s up to Missouri lawmakers to do their part, to come up with a mechanism to fund state road and bridge work, to prove to its residents that it, too, “can get things done.”
It won’t be pretty and it won’t be perfect, but it’s overdue.
In 2009, Missouri Department of Transportation funding was $1.3 billion; it will be between $500 million and $600 million for fiscal year 2017. As we’ve said before, there are a lot of reasons for that drastic drop, but they all point to one thing: making long-term transportation funding a priority.
MoDOT officials have said the transportation funds in the 2017 budget will not be enough to maintain all of the state’s 33,000 mile-highway system and 10,000 bridges. There is no money in the budget for future expansion projects, including the west bypass for Joplin or the state’s share of the long-delayed and long-needed Bella Vista bypass. And what’s at stake is federal money if we don’t have enough in the future to provide the state match.
We never thought we’d say this, but Missouri should look to Congress for its example. We encourage lawmakers to put the state’s highway and bridge needs at the top of their to-do lists when they gather next month in Jefferson City.
Missouri can’t wait.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on December 14, 2015, 08:42:53 AM
We'll see what happens. Missouri has some other projects they need to find funding for first before they do the Bella Vista Bypass. I think one of those is the US 54 bridge in Louisiana, MO. They have to find 25 million dollars for that project (IL already has their share and the fed govt is pitching in 10 million dollars).

Just curious, how much would Missouri's state share of the Bella Vista Bypass be?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 14, 2015, 01:54:34 PM
Just curious, how much would Missouri's state share of the Bella Vista Bypass be?

The estimated cost provided to Missouri voters in advance of the August, 2014 vote for the sales tax increase was $32.49 million:

More recent estimates provided to Missouri voters for the failed August, 2014 sales tax increase attempt were discussed in this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg311182#msg311182) (the link to the document itself does not work; I have not checked to see if MoDOT has archived it elsewhere on its website):
Bella Vista Bypass: $32.49 million
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 15, 2015, 11:13:36 PM
MoDOT now has an A New Interchange at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar webpage (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/211thStreet.htm), which indicates that there will be an Open house public hearing on August 20 and that construction is scheduled to start in Spring 2015.  The page also has an Aerial view (http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_projects/documents/J4P2247_ConceptPlan_211th_I49_Interchange.pdf) of the project.
I'm just popping in to point out that call number C05 in the MoDOT construction letting of May 15, 2015 is for installation of Bugo's favorite type of interchange--a DDI--at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar.

This article (http://www.demo-mo.com/2015/12/02/28788/peculiar-interchange-project-progressing.html) reports that the Peculiar interchange project is ahead of schedule:

Quote
The 211th Street interchange project in Peculiar is ahead of schedule, thanks to the weather.
City Administrator Brad Ratliff said little rain in September and October has allowed for the quick work off Interstate 49.

Ratliff explained that the piers going in now over the highway were scheduled to be installed the first of February. “So they’re working ahead of schedule,” Ratliff said.
Though as the quick work is partially due to the weather, a slow down is just as vulnerable to precipitation and cold.
By contract, the project is scheduled to be complete by November 2016, but Ratliff is hoping this initial progress will continue.
“Our hope is that the weather does cooperate and that they have it open by the time school is starts,” Ratliff said.
The interchange, about 2 miles north of Peculiar’s only other off-ramp from I-49, will cost the city about $6 million in 2015 and 2016, and another $6 million in funds will come from grants ....

I was just there this past weekend. The faux-stone (patterned concrete) embankments are about half done and the steel for the center support is up, though not yet encased in concrete.

Other news: Harrisonville's Diverging Diamond at I-49 and MO 291 is about half finished: the SB lanes appear complete, but the NB lanes have yet to be started. The new 291 bridge over I-49 has the city name in the concrete. Traffic on 291 is a clusterflock in the vicinity with lane closures and traffic shifts.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 16, 2015, 03:28:38 PM
It's been three years since Interstate 49 came to Missouri. How about changing the subject title to "I-49 in Missouri."
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 16, 2015, 04:58:40 PM
It's been three years since Interstate 49 came to Missouri. How about changing the subject title to "I-49 in Missouri."
It's still coming south of Pineville ;)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ModernDayWarrior on December 16, 2015, 07:31:53 PM
Missouri doesn't even have the money to maintain the roads we already have, much less build new ones. Our state legislature is too busy taking marching orders from Rex Sinquefield to ever enact a serious proposal to adequately fund MoDOT. And Missouri voters rejected out of hand a sales tax proposal that would have paid for our transportation needs back in August (I guess we have to spend our money fixing our cars due to all the potholes instead...) For the Bella Vista Bypass to ever get built, one of two things would have to happen: the Feds paying for almost all of it, or a sea change in Jefferson City. Neither one seems particularly likely to me.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on December 16, 2015, 09:08:50 PM
Could Arkansas get away with offering to build it and toll it?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: noelbotevera on December 16, 2015, 09:23:25 PM
My personal course of action would be to try and suck funding from all the uneeded projects and shift the focus to the Bella Vista Bypass and the remaining sections of Bruce Watkin Drive. I'd still allow funding for major highways such as an I-70 widening, but some unneeded projects could be on hold for now until I-49 is done. I'd then cooperate with Arkansas and then I'd have them toll their side of the deal and split money so both Missouri and Arkansas can recoup some losses.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on December 16, 2015, 09:44:42 PM
Missouri doesn't even have the money to maintain the roads we already have, much less build new ones. Our state legislature is too busy taking marching orders from Rex Sinquefield to ever enact a serious proposal to adequately fund MoDOT. And Missouri voters rejected out of hand a sales tax proposal that would have paid for our transportation needs back in August (I guess we have to spend our money fixing our cars due to all the potholes instead...) For the Bella Vista Bypass to ever get built, one of two things would have to happen: the Feds paying for almost all of it, or a sea change in Jefferson City. Neither one seems particularly likely to me.

And since next year is an election year, I'm not really holding out any hope that they get anything done.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: brycecordry on December 23, 2015, 03:10:42 PM
One more thing to bear in mind is that Missouri is the sixth or seventh largest highway system in the nation. All the other states with the larger systems have either larger land area to put them in or larger populations to support them. Missouri does not have either. We need to do what Iowa did about 15 or so years ago, by spinning off many of the lettered routes and some numbered routes to the counties or local government. We should then try to reconstruct I-70 as conservatively as possible, by widening into the median and keeping as many existing overpasses as we can. The same conservative principles can be applied to new construction too, by using existing corridors as much as possible, such as my plans for MO-21, I-72, I-66, and even an extension of I-45 into Missouri.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: bjrush on December 23, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
My personal course of action would be to try and suck funding from all the uneeded projects and shift the focus to the Bella Vista Bypass and the remaining sections of Bruce Watkin Drive. I'd still allow funding for major highways such as an I-70 widening, but some unneeded projects could be on hold for now until I-49 is done. I'd then cooperate with Arkansas and then I'd have them toll their side of the deal and split money so both Missouri and Arkansas can recoup some losses.

All of this is a horrible idea. Missouri made a promise to Arkansas. They can't follow through.  Arkansas will build more road until Missouri looks like even more of a joke than they already are.  Eventually the pressure will work

Feds aren't bailing them out for a mistake they made.  Don't write checks your ass can't cash.  Missouri DOT is a spineless, gutless organization full of fools.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 23, 2015, 09:43:57 PM
My personal course of action would be to try and suck funding from all the uneeded projects and shift the focus to the Bella Vista Bypass and the remaining sections of Bruce Watkin Drive. I'd still allow funding for major highways such as an I-70 widening, but some unneeded projects could be on hold for now until I-49 is done. I'd then cooperate with Arkansas and then I'd have them toll their side of the deal and split money so both Missouri and Arkansas can recoup some losses.

All of this is a horrible idea. Missouri made a promise to Arkansas. They can't follow through.  Arkansas will build more road until Missouri looks like even more of a joke than they already are.  Eventually the pressure will work

Feds aren't bailing them out for a mistake they made.  Don't write checks your ass can't cash.  Missouri DOT is a spineless, gutless organization full of fools.

It's more complicated than that.

MoDOT had the money, AHTD didn't. So MoDOT spent it elsewhere. AHTD finally found some money, but MoDOT had blown all theirs. Of course, with all the improvements on 49 north of Carthage (new Interchanges, new overpasses) I wonder how much of that could have been spent to finish 49 south of Pineville?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on December 25, 2015, 02:51:42 PM
One more thing to bear in mind is that Missouri is the sixth or seventh largest highway system in the nation. All the other states with the larger systems have either larger land area to put them in or larger populations to support them. Missouri does not have either. We need to do what Iowa did about 15 or so years ago, by spinning off many of the lettered routes and some numbered routes to the counties or local government.

This is what needs to happen. If you spend some time with the official Missouri map you start to realize the lettered route system is insane. So many of these spur off to random patches of rural country, not even to towns. You could dump 90% of them and convert the rest to numbered routes. But that would probably be a political fight, since the counties have grown accustomed to MoDOT doing their work for them (even though in every other state, these roads would be county-controlled).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: NE2 on December 25, 2015, 03:34:25 PM
even though in every other state, these roads would be county-controlled
Except Texas. And Pennsylvania. And Kentucky. And those states that maintain everything.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on December 26, 2015, 09:58:18 AM
The spin-off of insignificant routes needs to happen anyway, regardless of the exceptions.

Both Texas and Pennsylvania have much bigger populations than Missouri. Pennsylvania is a bit limited at building up a crazy grid of state-maintained roads due to all the mountainous, woodsy terrain. Texas has a tremendous amount of state-maintained roads, but a pretty good amount of those Farm to Market roads are busy with things like oil patch activity.

Here in Oklahoma I wonder why we have so many section line roads. With the way many rural towns are drying up and dying off it makes little sense to keep maintaining so much infrastructure into those areas. The roads are one thing, but there's lot of bridges and other features that have to be maintained on these roads. The state's transportation budget goes only so far.

Various factors are forcing people to move into urban areas and making it ever more difficult for small towns to survive. Infrastructure cost inflation has been outrageously insane over the past 20 years. I have some relatives in Temple, OK. Many of the streets there are beat to shit and there's no money to fix them. Many towns like Temple no longer have any police department because they no longer have the tax base to support it. Medical services are very limited. Real estate values get driven downward and insurance rates on property & health rise. Finally, very few young people want to stay in small towns for obvious reasons.

I was hoping costs of building materials like concrete and steel would have dropped in response to the current oil industry bust, but that doesn't appear to be happening. It seems like there is very little movement being made with innovations designed to lower the costs of building streets and highways. This cost inflation is going to force state governments to make some pretty tough decisions about lesser highways in rural areas.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 28, 2015, 02:50:15 PM
Just curious, how much would Missouri's state share of the Bella Vista Bypass be?
The estimated cost provided to Missouri voters in advance of the August, 2014 vote for the sales tax increase was $32.49 million:
More recent estimates provided to Missouri voters for the failed August, 2014 sales tax increase attempt were discussed in this post (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg311182#msg311182) (the link to the document itself does not work; I have not checked to see if MoDOT has archived it elsewhere on its website):
Bella Vista Bypass: $32.49 million

This article (http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/dec/28/highways-bypasses-key-in-road-plans-for/), primarily about highway construction in NWA, quotes a MoDOT official as saying that Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass funding gap is now $33.8 million, and that the $33.8 million is in addition to $24.2 million that MoDOT has already set aside for construction of its share of the BVB:

Quote
... Dick Trammel, chairman of the Highway Commission ...
Construction is underway on a portion of the 14-mile stretch to extend I-49 around Bella Vista ....
Trammel said the two-lane road will expand to four lanes once Missouri finds funding for its six-mile section to connect the bypass to I-49 in its state.
Frank Miller, planning manager for the Missouri Department of Transportation's Southwest District, said the state has $24.2 million set aside for the project, but a $33.8 million funding gap exists.

I wonder if MoDOT will eventually be tempted to spend the $24.2 million elsewhere if the state cannot find a way to increase highway funding in the next couple of years .........
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ModernDayWarrior on December 28, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
My personal course of action would be to try and suck funding from all the uneeded projects and shift the focus to the Bella Vista Bypass and the remaining sections of Bruce Watkin Drive. I'd still allow funding for major highways such as an I-70 widening, but some unneeded projects could be on hold for now until I-49 is done. I'd then cooperate with Arkansas and then I'd have them toll their side of the deal and split money so both Missouri and Arkansas can recoup some losses.


There aren't any "unneeded projects" left to cut. MoDOT's funding shortfall is so severe that they can't even keep up with all of the routine maintenance, let alone any new projects.

I personally wouldn't object to a tolled Bella Vista Project, or a tolled I-70 reconstruction for that matter, but I get the sense that tolling is completely unpalatable politically.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on December 29, 2015, 12:32:22 AM
Not politically palatable. That is typical of today's voting public; they think the government can magically come up with funding for infrastructure by magically shuffling around things and promise more tax cuts.

The general public has been getting a free ride for the past 15 years as cost inflation has made the gas tax funding mechanism for our streets and highways a laughable joke. The federal gasoline tax hasn't been raised in over 20 years. But it sure costs a whole lot more to build and maintain roads now than it did back in 1992. I'm not even sure if the gasoline tax was covering highway building and maintenance costs back then! Yet today's voters don't want any toll roads and don't want any hikes on fuel taxes either. Something has to give.

Maybe if states started shutting down bridges and sections of highway that have unfunded repair issues it might start to jog a few brain cells within the general public.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ModernDayWarrior on December 29, 2015, 02:31:49 AM
Maybe if states started shutting down bridges and sections of highway that have unfunded repair issues it might start to jog a few brain cells within the general public.


This has actually happened in Missouri. I can't find the link right now, but to summarize, a bridge on one of our lettered routes was recently deemed unsafe. MoDOT doesn't have the money to fix it, so they simply shut it down and made traffic detour around it.

And yet we still have no solution. Rex Sinquefield hasn't ordered his stooges in Jefferson City to do anything about it, so naturally they haven't.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Rothman on December 29, 2015, 09:17:15 AM
Maybe if states started shutting down bridges and sections of highway that have unfunded repair issues it might start to jog a few brain cells within the general public.


This has actually happened in Missouri. I can't find the link right now, but to summarize, a bridge on one of our lettered routes was recently deemed unsafe. MoDOT doesn't have the money to fix it, so they simply shut it down and made traffic detour around it.

And yet we still have no solution. Rex Sinquefield hasn't ordered his stooges in Jefferson City to do anything about it, so naturally they haven't.

Heh.  It takes closures on significant routes to shake things up.  Here in NY, we rather routinely close down rural bridges that are simply not cost-effective to rebuild without much blowback.  However, if we closed down, say a bridge on the Bronx River Parkway...
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: noelbotevera on December 29, 2015, 11:11:19 AM
Maybe if states started shutting down bridges and sections of highway that have unfunded repair issues it might start to jog a few brain cells within the general public.


This has actually happened in Missouri. I can't find the link right now, but to summarize, a bridge on one of our lettered routes was recently deemed unsafe. MoDOT doesn't have the money to fix it, so they simply shut it down and made traffic detour around it.

And yet we still have no solution. Rex Sinquefield hasn't ordered his stooges in Jefferson City to do anything about it, so naturally they haven't.

Heh.  It takes closures on significant routes to shake things up.  Here in NY, we rather routinely close down rural bridges that are simply not cost-effective to rebuild without much blowback.  However, if we closed down, say a bridge on the Bronx River Parkway...
No, really shake them up by closing down all Hudson River crossings.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on December 29, 2015, 11:14:44 AM
Maybe if states started shutting down bridges and sections of highway that have unfunded repair issues it might start to jog a few brain cells within the general public.


This has actually happened in Missouri. I can't find the link right now, but to summarize, a bridge on one of our lettered routes was recently deemed unsafe. MoDOT doesn't have the money to fix it, so they simply shut it down and made traffic detour around it.

And yet we still have no solution. Rex Sinquefield hasn't ordered his stooges in Jefferson City to do anything about it, so naturally they haven't.

Heh.  It takes closures on significant routes to shake things up.  Here in NY, we rather routinely close down rural bridges that are simply not cost-effective to rebuild without much blowback.  However, if we closed down, say a bridge on the Bronx River Parkway...
No, really shake them up by closing down all Hudson River crossings.

well that would wake up just about everyone
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Rothman on December 29, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Hudson River crossings south of Patroon Island Bridge (I-90) are NYBA or Thruway or PANYNJ... :D
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on January 12, 2016, 04:49:36 PM
MoDOT draft STIP released. http://modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/index.htm
Looks like Bella Vista Bypass has been pushed back to 2019-2020 year (see Page 11 of attached link)  :banghead:
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/documents/Sec046aSWRuralPaymentsandProjects.pdf
This article (http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/dec/28/highways-bypasses-key-in-road-plans-for/), primarily about highway construction in NWA, quotes a MoDOT official as saying that Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass funding gap is now $33.8 million, and that the $33.8 million is in addition to $24.2 million that MoDOT has already set aside for construction of its share of the BVB

This article (http://www.semissourian.com/story/2266718.html) reports that MoDOT has received some unexpected good news about its funding situation that will allow it to lift a moratorium on adding new projects to its five-year plan:

Quote
The Missouri Department of Transportation said the worst-case scenario of being unable to maintain state infrastructure has been avoided, thanks to federal legislation and an unexpected bump in tax revenue ....
the department confirmed Monday its latest financial forecasts show the situation improving -- so much it can afford to maintain all of the state's roads in their current condition and keep the number of critical condition bridges from rising.
Tax revenue from fuel, licenses and vehicles came in $47 million above projections last fiscal year. In December, Congress passed the first highway authorization in more than seven years, which guarantees increased transportation funding for the next five years.
The Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission voted last week to lift a moratorium on adding projects to its five-year plan. Officials had drafted their plan with estimates that federal funds would drop from $869 million in fiscal year 2016 to $491 million in fiscal year 2021.
Instead, a new federal highway law signed by President Barack Obama provides a 5.1 percent increase in road and bridge funding distributed through a formula to states in 2016, with additional annual increases ranging from 2.1 percent to 2.4 percent through 2020. As with previous highway laws, it requires state and local governments to spend at least $1 for every $4 they receive in federal money.

If new projects can be added to the five-year plan, then I wonder if the Bella Vista Bypass can be moved up a few years in the plan (from the current projected 2020 Award Date indicated in the above link to the Draft STIP).  :hmmm::

(http://i.imgur.com/YUYft6N.png)

The next STIP should be interesting.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 12, 2016, 08:56:55 PM
Quote
Instead, a new federal highway law signed by President Barack Obama provides a 5.1 percent increase in road and bridge funding distributed through a formula to states in 2016, with additional annual increases ranging from 2.1 percent to 2.4 percent through 2020. As with previous highway laws, it requires state and local governments to spend at least $1 for every $4 they receive in federal money.

I'm wondering if Oklahoma will be able to take advantage of any of that funding. The oil bust is leaving Oklahoma's state budget more and more into the red. They just announced more drastic funding cuts to public education and some other services.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Revive 755 on January 12, 2016, 09:09:38 PM
This article (http://www.semissourian.com/story/2266718.html) reports that MoDOT has received some unexpected good news about its funding situation that will allow it to lift a moratorium on adding new projects to its five-year plan:

I would hope MoDOT tries to stick with keeping 90% of the project maintenance related projects.  Additionally, that creative accounting mentioned in the article could backfire on MoDOT.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: SteveG1988 on January 13, 2016, 12:16:12 AM
It's been three years since Interstate 49 came to Missouri. How about changing the subject title to "I-49 in Missouri."
It's still coming south of Pineville ;)

That's what she said
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: apjung on January 24, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Darkchylde on January 24, 2016, 03:09:53 PM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.
The legal fight over the last one might use all of that money, considering how tooth-and-nail the nearby residents have been fighting it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on January 24, 2016, 05:51:25 PM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.

Missouri taxpayers are still on the hook for payng off the old one  (http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/23/missouri-will-keep-paying-for-st-louis-rams-stadium-until-2022/).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: paulthemapguy on February 08, 2016, 11:31:37 AM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.
That interchange in Carthage really does need to be upgraded (at I-49 and MO-96/171).  It's disappointing to see a lowly diamond interchange there on maps.

I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.
The legal fight over the last one might use all of that money, considering how tooth-and-nail the nearby residents have been fighting it.
It's such a small section of freeway!  And the ROW land is right there waiting for development!  I just feel like saying "come oooonnn, build it."
P.S. TS is best pony XD
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on February 08, 2016, 11:36:23 AM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.

Missouri taxpayers are still on the hook for payng off the old one  (http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/23/missouri-will-keep-paying-for-st-louis-rams-stadium-until-2022/).
I think it's insane that those St. Louis taxpayers will keep paying for a stadium that nobody will play in for at least another seven years. This has Pontiac Silverdome (MI) written all over it; even after the Lions moved back to downtown Detroit, the Silverdome is still standing, and slowly rusting away because nobody plays there anymore. Same deal with the Houston Astrodome (former home of the Astros and Oilers-turned-Titans).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on February 08, 2016, 11:39:11 AM
I guess the money saved from not building brand new Football stadium in St. Louis should now be put to use to improve I-49 such as rerouting it in Joplin with a flyover ramp in Carthage, finish the connection to Arkansas and converting Bruce R. Watkins Drive to a freeway.

Missouri taxpayers are still on the hook for payng off the old one  (http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/23/missouri-will-keep-paying-for-st-louis-rams-stadium-until-2022/).
I think it's insane that those St. Louis taxpayers will keep paying for a stadium that nobody will play in for at least another seven years. This has Pontiac Silverdome (MI) written all over it; even after the Lions moved back to downtown Detroit, the Silverdome is still standing, and slowly rusting away because nobody plays there anymore. Same deal with the Houston Astrodome (former home of the Astros and Oilers-turned-Titans).

this is done in just about every city, here in Indianapolis, we are still paying for 2 stadiums that don't even exist anymore.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 11, 2016, 09:40:35 PM
MoDOT draft STIP released. http://modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/index.htm
Looks like Bella Vista Bypass has been pushed back to 2019-2020 year (see Page 11 of attached link)  :banghead:
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2016-2020/documents/Sec046aSWRuralPaymentsandProjects.pdf
This article (http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/dec/28/highways-bypasses-key-in-road-plans-for/), primarily about highway construction in NWA, quotes a MoDOT official as saying that Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass funding gap is now $33.8 million, and that the $33.8 million is in addition to $24.2 million that MoDOT has already set aside for construction of its share of the BVB
This article (http://www.semissourian.com/story/2266718.html) reports that MoDOT has received some unexpected good news about its funding situation that will allow it to lift a moratorium on adding new projects to its five-year plan ....
If new projects can be added to the five-year plan, then I wonder if the Bella Vista Bypass can be moved up a few years in the plan (from the current projected 2020 Award Date indicated in the above link to the Draft STIP).
(http://i.imgur.com/YUYft6N.png)
The next STIP should be interesting.
MoDOT has $20 Million in the draft STIP (released today) for 2019-2020 construction to fill the gap
http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2017-2021/documents/Sec0406SouthwestRural.pdf (link corrected)
(bottom quote from I-49 in Arkansas (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg2144022#msg2144022) thread)

Here is a snip from uozzim's corrected link:

(http://i.imgur.com/6IWBdMm.jpg)
....
(http://i.imgur.com/ClunY6A.jpg)

Well, so much for the hope that the "found money" would accelerate the Award Date for the BVB; at least the Award Date held steady at 2020. That said, this May 9 article (http://www.missourinet.com/2016/05/09/fuel-tax-hike-proposal-advances-to-missouri-house/) reports that a chance still exists the Missouri legislature will pass a measure authorizing Missouri voters to vote on a gas tax increase before the current session ends on Friday the 13th:

Quote
A proposal to ask Missourians whether the state’s fuel tax should be increase to pay for roads and bridges is on its way to the full state House ....
If approved by voters, the measure would increase the 17-cent fuel tax by 5.9-cents.
Another House committee has added two provisions to the bill that would increase the tax on natural gas used in vehicles, and on any fuels used in vehicles in the future. If those aren’t removed, House passage would send it back to the Senate to consider the changes. The session ends Friday.
Leadership in the House Republican majority caucus does not favor a tax increase to fund transportation infrastructure.

Now we wait and see if the measure passes.  If it does pass with Missouri voters then later approving the gas tax increase, and at the risk of sounding overly optimistic, maybe MoDOT could hold a BVB letting in 2018.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ModernDayWarrior on May 11, 2016, 11:04:46 PM
Well, so much for the hope that the "found money" would accelerate the Award Date for the BVB; at least the Award Date held steady at 2020. That said, this May 9 article (http://www.missourinet.com/2016/05/09/fuel-tax-hike-proposal-advances-to-missouri-house/) reports that a chance still exists the Missouri legislature will pass a measure authorizing Missouri voters to vote on a gas tax increase before the current session ends on Friday the 13th:
Quote
A proposal to ask Missourians whether the state’s fuel tax should be increase to pay for roads and bridges is on its way to the full state House ....
If approved by voters, the measure would increase the 17-cent fuel tax by 5.9-cents.
Another House committee has added two provisions to the bill that would increase the tax on natural gas used in vehicles, and on any fuels used in vehicles in the future. If those aren’t removed, House passage would send it back to the Senate to consider the changes. The session ends Friday.
Leadership in the House Republican majority caucus does not favor a tax increase to fund transportation infrastructure.
Now we wait and see if the measure passes.  If it does pass with Missouri voters then later approving the gas tax increase, and at the risk of sounding overly optimistic, maybe MoDOT could hold a BVB letting in 2018.

I'm not optimistic about Missouri voters approving any tax increase. A proposal to increase the sales tax by three-fourths of a cent was overwhelmingly rejected (https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Temporary_Sales_and_Use_Tax_Increase_for_Transportation,_Amendment_7_%28August_2014%29) in 2014. I doubt a fuel tax increase will fare any better, no matter how badly MoDOT needs more funding.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 11, 2016, 11:51:27 PM
This article (http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/dec/28/highways-bypasses-key-in-road-plans-for/), primarily about highway construction in NWA, quotes a MoDOT official as saying that Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass funding gap is now $33.8 million, and that the $33.8 million is in addition to $24.2 million that MoDOT has already set aside for construction of its share of the BVB
I'm not optimistic about Missouri voters approving any tax increase. A proposal to increase the sales tax by three-fourths of a cent was overwhelmingly rejected (https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Temporary_Sales_and_Use_Tax_Increase_for_Transportation,_Amendment_7_%28August_2014%29) in 2014. I doubt a fuel tax increase will fare any better, no matter how badly MoDOT needs more funding.

Another funding possibility may be a FASTLANE grant. Knowing that MoDOT has already set aside $24.2 million for the BVB, but also realizing that MoDOT still faces the considerable challenge of the $33.8 million funding gap, it occurred to me that the $24.2 million "skin in the game" would present the opportunity to have a FASTLANE grant put a big dent in the $33.8 million. I emailed MoDOT and asked them if they had submitted a grant application for the BVB this year. They replied that they did not submit an application this year, but that they may do so next year.

Also, if FHWA does not award a grant for AHTD's current I-49 Grant Application (http://www.arkansashighways.com/FastLane/I49/FASTLANE%20%20I-49%20PROJECT%202016%20FINAL.pdf), then maybe MoDOT and AHTD could submit a joint application next year, with AHTD possibly putting a big dent in the $50 million it is currently setting aside for the remaining two lanes of the BVB in its current draft STIP.  It could be a win-win for both agencies.

I believe FHWA would strongly consider such an application that would expedite the completion of the I-49 freight corridor from I-40 to I-435. Could be another way to have a 2018 letting.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 12, 2016, 09:31:01 AM
I am not going to hold my breath waiting for voters to pass it, but I think it does have a better chance than that sales tax increase. That tax would have increased taxes on everything, whereas this is a user fee tax. Also, the governor put it on the August ballot to ensure that it would fail. This ballot would be in November. So there will be more time to get information out about the increase.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 12, 2016, 11:19:55 AM
Gas taxes have been proportionately very low compared to fuel prices for a long time. One thing is for damned sure: the gas taxes didn't keep up with the cost inflation of road building & maintenance at all. Not by a long shot. Voters are blissfully ignorant of that fact, maybe even deliberately ignorant of it. Voters demand all sorts of things. Fix our streets! Improve our schools! Put more cops on the street! Build this! Build that! They sure as hell don't want to pay for any of it. They think all of that somehow magically funds itself without any tax increases. They also think the local, state and federal government is awash in infinite amounts of money and every elected official is lining his pockets with it. That's the ignorance going on which explains why things like a fuel tax increase get killed so easily.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 12, 2016, 04:17:26 PM
Bobby5280, I couldn't agree more with you on this. However, it doesn't look like things are ever going to change.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 12, 2016, 06:13:23 PM
Gas taxes have been proportionately very low compared to fuel prices for a long time. One thing is for damned sure: the gas taxes didn't keep up with the cost inflation of road building & maintenance at all. Not by a long shot. Voters are blissfully ignorant of that fact, maybe even deliberately ignorant of it. Voters demand all sorts of things. Fix our streets! Improve our schools! Put more cops on the street! Build this! Build that! They sure as hell don't want to pay for any of it. They think all of that somehow magically funds itself without any tax increases. They also think the local, state and federal government is awash in infinite amounts of money and every elected official is lining his pockets with it. That's the ignorance going on which explains why things like a fuel tax increase get killed so easily.

 :clap: I totally agree
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 14, 2016, 11:28:19 AM
this May 9 article (http://www.missourinet.com/2016/05/09/fuel-tax-hike-proposal-advances-to-missouri-house/) reports that a chance still exists the Missouri legislature will pass a measure authorizing Missouri voters to vote on a gas tax increase before the current session ends on Friday the 13th
... Voters demand all sorts of things. Fix our streets! Improve our schools! Put more cops on the street! Build this! Build that! They sure as hell don't want to pay for any of it ...

This article (http://www.missourinet.com/2016/05/14/gas-tax-increase-proposal-dies-in-the-missouri-legislature/) reports that the measure died in the Missouri legislature, and won't even make it to Missouri's voters, apparently because of election year politics:

Quote
The state legislature did not pass a transportation funding fix during the regular legislative session that ended Friday. One measure that passed in the Senate but died in the House would have asked voters if Missouri’s gas tax should be increased 5.9 cents per gallon to help pay for roads and bridges.
Senator Doug Libla (R-Poplar Bluff) says he worked hard to find a compromise this year in hopes that the proposal would pass.
“The people of the state of Missouri will not be able to vote on whether or not they would like to pay a little more to get better roads and bridges to drive on,” said Libla.
Lawmakers agree transportation funding must increase but they disagree on how to fund it.
House Speaker Todd Richardson (R-Poplar Bluff) says the measure wasn’t [sic?] allowed to die in his chamber because it’s an election year.
“This is a conservative caucus. This is a caucus that has concerns about any kind of tax increase,” said Richardson. “The proposal got more traction this year than it’s had in the past. Ultimately, there just wasn’t enough support.”
House Minority Leader Jake Hummel (D-St. Louis) says not finding ways to increase transportation funding was the biggest disappointment about this session.
“The Senate came up with a bi-partisan bill that was sitting on the House calendar and the majority refused to even bring it us [sic] for a discussion,” said Hummel. “I think that’s cowardice at best on an election year issue. We have absolutely failed in this legislative session to do anything about it. The biggest issue that they could come up with to fix our roads and bridges were license plate bills.”

Back to hurry up and wait mode for the BVB...........
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on May 15, 2016, 06:56:33 PM
So how in the heck is Missouri planning to pay for its transportation needs? Geez, are people clueless? This is an issue they need to deal with, yet, trying to get a plan through is like pulling teeth.

Welcome to 21st Century America, where we cannot get ANYTHING done due to selfishness.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: paulthemapguy on May 15, 2016, 09:34:33 PM
So how in the heck is Missouri planning to pay for its transportation needs? Geez, are people clueless? This is an issue they need to deal with, yet, trying to get a plan through is like pulling teeth.

Welcome to 21st Century America, where we cannot get ANYTHING done due to selfishness.  :rolleyes:
Assessment of 21st Century America is 100% correct.
I live in Illinois where the selfish state legislature is so incredibly uncaring that they can't even pass a budget.  Just a bit of hard evidence to back up your claim.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ChiMilNet on May 15, 2016, 10:35:31 PM
So how in the heck is Missouri planning to pay for its transportation needs? Geez, are people clueless? This is an issue they need to deal with, yet, trying to get a plan through is like pulling teeth.

Welcome to 21st Century America, where we cannot get ANYTHING done due to selfishness.  :rolleyes:
Assessment of 21st Century America is 100% correct.
I live in Illinois where the selfish state legislature is so incredibly uncaring that they can't even pass a budget.  Just a bit of hard evidence to back up your claim.

The only way it seems any major highways will get built in 21st Century America is to have a toll on them (see Illinois). As for Missouri, The low gas tax is nice and all, but when the roads are a crumbling mess, then you get what you pay for. I-49 connection between Bella Vista and McDonald County in Missouri is such an obvious gap now that you would think the two states would do whatever they can to bridge it just to avoid the embarrassment of having it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on May 17, 2016, 11:06:19 AM
So how in the heck is Missouri planning to pay for its transportation needs? Geez, are people clueless? This is an issue they need to deal with, yet, trying to get a plan through is like pulling teeth.

Welcome to 21st Century America, where we cannot get ANYTHING done due to selfishness.  :rolleyes:
Assessment of 21st Century America is 100% correct.
I live in Illinois where the selfish state legislature is so incredibly uncaring that they can't even pass a budget.  Just a bit of hard evidence to back up your claim.

The only way it seems any major highways will get built in 21st Century America is to have a toll on them (see Illinois). As for Missouri, The low gas tax is nice and all, but when the roads are a crumbling mess, then you get what you pay for. I-49 connection between Bella Vista and McDonald County in Missouri is such an obvious gap now that you would think the two states would do whatever they can to bridge it just to avoid the embarrassment of having it.
The Arkansas Legislature is about to have a special session on fixing roads, but I strongly suspect they will (a) do nothing or (b) put a band aid on the problem. Everyone wants better roads, but no one wants to pay for them.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 17, 2016, 11:18:18 AM
So how in the heck is Missouri planning to pay for its transportation needs? Geez, are people clueless? This is an issue they need to deal with, yet, trying to get a plan through is like pulling teeth.

Welcome to 21st Century America, where we cannot get ANYTHING done due to selfishness.  :rolleyes:
Assessment of 21st Century America is 100% correct.
I live in Illinois where the selfish state legislature is so incredibly uncaring that they can't even pass a budget.  Just a bit of hard evidence to back up your claim.

The only way it seems any major highways will get built in 21st Century America is to have a toll on them (see Illinois). As for Missouri, The low gas tax is nice and all, but when the roads are a crumbling mess, then you get what you pay for. I-49 connection between Bella Vista and McDonald County in Missouri is such an obvious gap now that you would think the two states would do whatever they can to bridge it just to avoid the embarrassment of having it.
The Arkansas Legislature is about to have a special session on fixing roads, but I strongly suspect they will (a) do nothing or (b) put a band aid on the problem. Everyone wants better roads, but no one wants to pay for them.
I predict a band-aid, the government isn't serious about fixing our infrastructure (of course the DOT is) and until they are, band-aids will keep being put over this festering wound.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 25, 2016, 10:38:39 AM
Another possible funding solution could be on the ballot in November this year: Increasing the state's cigarette tax (http://www.missourinet.com/2016/05/24/one-missouri-road-funding-effort-dies-another-could-be-on-ballot/).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on July 16, 2016, 09:37:38 PM
Here is a snip from uozzim's corrected link:
(http://i.imgur.com/6IWBdMm.jpg)
....
(http://i.imgur.com/ClunY6A.jpg)
Well, so much for the hope that the "found money" would accelerate the Award Date for the BVB; at least the Award Date held steady at 2020.

This article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/transportation-projects-for-southwest-missouri-set-for-next-five-years/article_5a99b317-92ef-5716-8971-23db7deb55c0.html) quotes Missouri state rep Bill Lant as saying that he is confident Missouri will come up with the money needed to finish the Bella Vista Bypass by 2020:

Quote
Missouri Department of Transportation funding over the next five years will help pay for a number of road and bridge upgrades around the state, ranging from a new sidewalk in Webb City to prevent another tragedy such as the one that happened there last Halloween, to major upgrades and improvements along interstates and other key corridors.
About a third of the money Missouri will need for its share of the long-sought Bella Vista bypass also is being set aside in this round of funding.
MoDOT recently approved its 2017-2021 Statewide Transportation Improvement Program, known as STIP, and it includes numerous road and bridge projects for Southwest Missouri.
The program sets plans for engineering, design and construction on a rolling five-year basis, adjusted for the fiscal year starting July 1. The STIP is reviewed and renewed every year based on updated revenue forecasts, said Frank Miller, Southwest Missouri MoDOT engineer ....
Miller said the McDonald County portion of the bypass is expected to cost about $55 million, meaning more than $30 million is still needed and will have to await new sources of either state or federal funding because the project has be done in its entirety.

"We can't think of a good way to do a portion of it," he said of the Missouri share of the bypass.
Missouri state Rep. Bill Lant, R-Pineville, said he travels to Northwest Arkansas frequently. He has sat on the House Transportation Committee for the past six years and says funding for MoDOT has become precarious with revenue from the gas tax not going far enough.
He said that several years ago, Missouri had enough money for its share of the bypass but Arkansas didn’t, so Missouri used its money — about $60 million — to improve U.S. Highway 71 to Interstate 49 while it waited for Arkansas, which has a 15-mile section of the bypass.
“You can’t build a road to nowhere,” Lant said.
But following passage of a half-cent sales tax by Arkansas voters in 2012 for transportation projects, that state has poured millions of dollars into its share of the bypass. By the end of this year, the state will have completed two lanes of I-49 from Bentonville to Benton County Road 34 southwest of Bella Vista, about 2 1/2 miles from the state line. There also is funding available to upgrade that to four lanes, but the final 2 1/2 miles as well as the interchange at I-49 will wait until Missouri has its funding, said Danny Straessle, public information officer for the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department.
"We are putting ourselves in a position so that we are ready when Missouri is ready," he said.
Lant believes it won't be long before Missouri is able to go forward.
“By 2020, I’m pretty confident we will be able to come up with the additional money to do that job,” Lant said.

Well, at least we can begin to see light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on July 23, 2016, 05:27:18 PM
Here is a snip from uozzim's corrected link:
(http://i.imgur.com/6IWBdMm.jpg)
....
(http://i.imgur.com/ClunY6A.jpg)
Well, so much for the hope that the "found money" would accelerate the Award Date for the BVB; at least the Award Date held steady at 2020.

This article (http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/transportation-projects-for-southwest-missouri-set-for-next-five-years/article_5a99b317-92ef-5716-8971-23db7deb55c0.html) quotes Missouri state rep Bill Lant as saying that he is confident Missouri will come up with the money needed to finish the Bella Vista Bypass by 2020:

Quote
Missouri Department of Transportation funding over the next five years will help pay for a number of road and bridge upgrades around the state, ranging from a new sidewalk in Webb City to prevent another tragedy such as the one that happened there last Halloween, to major upgrades and improvements along interstates and other key corridors.
About a third of the money Missouri will need for its share of the long-sought Bella Vista bypass also is being set aside in this round of funding.
MoDOT recently approved its 2017-2021 Statewide Transportation Improvement Program, known as STIP, and it includes numerous road and bridge projects for Southwest Missouri.
The program sets plans for engineering, design and construction on a rolling five-year basis, adjusted for the fiscal year starting July 1. The STIP is reviewed and renewed every year based on updated revenue forecasts, said Frank Miller, Southwest Missouri MoDOT engineer ....
Miller said the McDonald County portion of the bypass is expected to cost about $55 million, meaning more than $30 million is still needed and will have to await new sources of either state or federal funding because the project has be done in its entirety.

"We can't think of a good way to do a portion of it," he said of the Missouri share of the bypass.
Missouri state Rep. Bill Lant, R-Pineville, said he travels to Northwest Arkansas frequently. He has sat on the House Transportation Committee for the past six years and says funding for MoDOT has become precarious with revenue from the gas tax not going far enough.
He said that several years ago, Missouri had enough money for its share of the bypass but Arkansas didn’t, so Missouri used its money — about $60 million — to improve U.S. Highway 71 to Interstate 49 while it waited for Arkansas, which has a 15-mile section of the bypass.
“You can’t build a road to nowhere,” Lant said.
But following passage of a half-cent sales tax by Arkansas voters in 2012 for transportation projects, that state has poured millions of dollars into its share of the bypass. By the end of this year, the state will have completed two lanes of I-49 from Bentonville to Benton County Road 34 southwest of Bella Vista, about 2 1/2 miles from the state line. There also is funding available to upgrade that to four lanes, but the final 2 1/2 miles as well as the interchange at I-49 will wait until Missouri has its funding, said Danny Straessle, public information officer for the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department.
"We are putting ourselves in a position so that we are ready when Missouri is ready," he said.
Lant believes it won't be long before Missouri is able to go forward.
“By 2020, I’m pretty confident we will be able to come up with the additional money to do that job,” Lant said.

Well, at least we can begin to see light at the end of the tunnel.

How are they going to do that?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 02, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
Another funding possibility may be a FASTLANE grant. Knowing that MoDOT has already set aside $24.2 million for the BVB, but also realizing that MoDOT still faces the considerable challenge of the $33.8 million funding gap, it occurred to me that the $24.2 million "skin in the game" would present the opportunity to have a FASTLANE grant put a big dent in the $33.8 million. I emailed MoDOT and asked them if they had submitted a grant application for the BVB this year. They replied that they did not submit an application this year, but that they may do so next year.
Also, if FHWA does not award a grant for AHTD's current I-49 Grant Application (http://www.arkansashighways.com/FastLane/I49/FASTLANE%20%20I-49%20PROJECT%202016%20FINAL.pdf), then maybe MoDOT and AHTD could submit a joint application next year, with AHTD possibly putting a big dent in the $50 million it is currently setting aside for the remaining two lanes of the BVB in its current draft STIP.  It could be a win-win for both agencies.
I believe FHWA would strongly consider such an application that would expedite the completion of the I-49 freight corridor from I-40 to I-435. Could be another way to have a 2018 letting.

With USDOT's recent announcement of a Dec. 15 deadline for applications, I once again emailed MoDOT and asked if they intended to submit an application for the Bella Vista Bypass.  In short, they have concluded that they need to submit a joint application with AHTD and are currently gauging AHTD's interest. The relevant part of the response:

Quote
Thank you for reaching out to MoDOT concerning the Bella Vista Bypass as a potential candidate for the FASTLANE grants this year.

Since the bypass spans both Missouri and Arkansas it will need to be coordinated with both  states.  MoDOT is currently discussing this project with Arkansas to determine whether both states want to pursue this project as a joint application in this cycle of FASTLANE grants considering things such as the matching requirements, multiple freight needs in the states, readiness of the plans, and how well it would compete against the other projects anticipated to be submitted.

No decision has been made at this time, but both agencies are considering it.

I wonder if Dick Trammel is aware that MoDOT has reached out to AHTD?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on November 02, 2016, 05:08:47 PM
This is just my opinion, but if the two states submit a combined proposal for the BVB, it might have a good chance of getting funding (if not this round, maybe next round). Since the goal of the grants, they say, is to fund "projects that address critical freight issues facing our nation’s highways and bridges", I would think that this project qualifies as a good candidate because of the truck traffic on this corridor (similar to the US69/75 project in Oklahoma that was selected in the first round of FASTLANE funding).

I'm probably being overly optimistic about this. I could also be full of it (very likely  :bigass:).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: roadman65 on November 07, 2016, 08:06:59 AM
One thing about I-49, especially between I-44 and I-435, is the sharp horizontal curves.  Many I have found to be dangerous and of course the substandard bridges without the required 10 feet wide shoulders and inside shoulders making crossing a waterway a tight fit.

Yes I know that its all previous US 71 upgraded from expressway to freeway which allows the clause to take place, but for high speed long travel it does make driving a bit more challenging.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 10, 2016, 06:15:04 PM
One thing about I-49, especially between I-44 and I-435, is the sharp horizontal curves.  Many I have found to be dangerous and of course the substandard bridges without the required 10 feet wide shoulders and inside shoulders making crossing a waterway a tight fit.

Yes I know that its all previous US 71 upgraded from expressway to freeway which allows the clause to take place, but for high speed long travel it does make driving a bit more challenging.
In the late 70's/ early 80's there was a zig-zag near Cedar Rd south of Carthage.

SB 71 shifted to the original alignment over 2 narrow bridges, while NB zigged to the SB lanes over a newer bridge, then zagged back. I wish I had thought of taking photos.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on November 28, 2016, 12:59:02 PM
[This article (http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/dec/28/highways-bypasses-key-in-road-plans-for/), primarily about highway construction in NWA, quotes a MoDOT official as saying that Missouri's Bella Vista Bypass funding gap is now $33.8 million, and that the $33.8 million is in addition to $24.2 million that MoDOT has already set aside for construction of its share of the BVB

This Nov. 22 TV video (http://www.4029tv.com/article/missouri-doesnt-have-enough-money-to-finish-its-part-of-the-bella-vista-bypass/8355298) reports that the cost to complete the Bella Vista Bypass has crept up to $35 million - $40 million, and an AHTD spokesperson indicates that AHTD is "working behind the scenes" with MoDOT to get it built.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 29, 2016, 01:45:41 PM
I wonder why these guys have to work "behind the scenes" to get something like this Interstate connection finished. Both Missouri and Arkansas have had the same party controlling all branches of government and that same party has been in control of the US House & Senate. There are some powerful business people living in the Northwest Arkansas region who support the same party. With all that united government machinery in place one would think a highway like this could get completed pretty quickly.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on November 29, 2016, 05:51:00 PM
I wonder why these guys have to work "behind the scenes" to get something like this Interstate connection finished. Both Missouri and Arkansas have had the same party controlling all branches of government and that same party has been in control of the US House & Senate. There are some powerful business people living in the Northwest Arkansas region who support the same party. With all that united government machinery in place one would think a highway like this could get completed pretty quickly.

the problem is the politicians don't care about infrastructure anymore.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 29, 2016, 07:26:00 PM
Not unless it gets them votes, money and/or publicity.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 29, 2016, 10:14:43 PM
Not unless it gets them votes, money and/or publicity.

Like I-555 or Arkansas I-57
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on November 30, 2016, 09:08:09 PM
I for one am surprised the Wal-Mart organization hasn't gotten more involved in the issue of finishing I-49 between Bentonville and I-44; it would certainly enhance the regional and even national connectivity of that chain's extensive HQ/warehousing facilities in the area. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on November 30, 2016, 09:17:49 PM
I for one am surprised the Wal-Mart organization hasn't gotten more involved in the issue of finishing I-49 between Bentonville and I-44; it would certainly enhance the regional and even national connectivity of that chain's extensive HQ/warehousing facilities in the area. 

Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JBHunt actually :)

They spend a lot of money lobbying , like they did for XNA, but someone else does the work.

The new 8th Street exit on I-49 will be a direct link to Wal-Mart HQ, but the city and state are paying for it. Wal-Mart lobbied for it, but they're not doing the work.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on December 02, 2016, 04:39:13 PM
I for one am surprised the Wal-Mart organization hasn't gotten more involved in the issue of finishing I-49 between Bentonville and I-44; it would certainly enhance the regional and even national connectivity of that chain's extensive HQ/warehousing facilities in the area. 

Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JBHunt actually :)

They spend a lot of money lobbying , like they did for XNA, but someone else does the work.

The new 8th Street exit on I-49 will be a direct link to Wal-Mart HQ, but the city and state are paying for it. Wal-Mart lobbied for it, but they're not doing the work.


They certainly do lobby, as does virtually every major national business chain -- but if they are engaging in any specific efforts toward completion of I-49 in their area it's been, at least on the face of things, ineffective so far.  Not to suggest they take an active role in the actual construction effort, but with their level of influence, it's just a bit surprising to see that it hasn't been brought to bear in this situation. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on December 02, 2016, 08:03:09 PM

They certainly do lobby, as does virtually every major national business chain -- but if they are engaging in any specific efforts toward completion of I-49 in their area it's been, at least on the face of things, ineffective so far.  Not to suggest they take an active role in the actual construction effort, but with their level of influence, it's just a bit surprising to see that it hasn't been brought to bear in this situation. 
Well for one: they are building their toll road from the future US 412 Bypass to XNA.

Just because you don't see anything, doesn't mean they're not doing anything
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on December 02, 2016, 10:01:19 PM
Just because you don't see anything, doesn't mean they're not doing anything

In that case, let's hope their behind-the-scenes efforts, present and near future, place the unconstructed I-49 well up on their priority list. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on December 15, 2016, 03:09:15 PM
This Nov. 22 TV video (http://www.4029tv.com/article/missouri-doesnt-have-enough-money-to-finish-its-part-of-the-bella-vista-bypass/8355298) reports that the cost to complete the Bella Vista Bypass has crept up to $35 million - $40 million, and an AHTD spokesperson indicates that AHTD is "working behind the scenes" with MoDOT to get it built.

Alas, AHTD's "behind the scenes" effort does not include cooperating on an application for a FASTLANE grant this round. MoDOT's email reply to a question about MoDOT's applications this time:

Quote
MoDOT is submitting one application jointly with St Louis Freightway for the Merchants RR Bridge in St Louis.
All public agencies are able to submit applications. The only one I am aware of is the City of West Plains was interested in creating some grade separations between road and rail. I believe they are submitting an application but it is not going through MoDOT offices.

Maybe next time ........
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 05, 2017, 07:05:18 PM
Here is a snip from uozzim's corrected link:
(http://i.imgur.com/6IWBdMm.jpg)
....
(http://i.imgur.com/ClunY6A.jpg)

Let's hope the Trunp infrastructure plan covers the Bella Vista Bypass because the 2018-22 MoDOT Southwest District Rural Project List Draft STIP (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2018-2022/documents/Sec0406SouthwestRural.pdf) has moved the Award Date for the Bella Vista Bypass from 2020 to 2021 (p. 24/48 of pdf):

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_05_05_17_6_35_27.jpeg)
....
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_05_05_17_7_01_45.jpeg)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: M86 on May 06, 2017, 02:32:35 AM

Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JBHunt actually :)

They spend a lot of money lobbying , like they did for XNA, but someone else does the work.

The new 8th Street exit on I-49 will be a direct link to Wal-Mart HQ, but the city and state are paying for it. Wal-Mart lobbied for it, but they're not doing the work.


The City of Bentonville (who they hired) is behind the designing of that interchange and (to my knowledge) Exit 86 to the south, it's a package deal.

It's ridiculous.  I contacted both AHTD and the City of Bentonville and the City of Rogers concerning US 62 to the east of I-49.

I got nothing.  And anyone who has driven on 14th/Hudson east of I-49 in Rogers knows that it's a mess.  I've sat hours in front of NWACC.  And I viewed the plans, and they do NOT address the traffic issues on the east side of I-49 at Exit 86.

But that's what happens when you have an agency that isn't connected to the state government. 



Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 06, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
Let's hope the Trunp infrastructure plan covers the Bella Vista Bypass because the 2018-22 MoDOT Southwest District Rural Project List Draft STIP (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2018-2022/documents/Sec0406SouthwestRural.pdf) has moved the Award Date for the Bella Vista Bypass from 2020 to 2021 (p. 24/48 of pdf):

No surprise there. ***Pessimism alert***: I think that the Award Date will probably be after 2021 unless something changes in the state legislature or the Trump infrastructure plan includes this project, like Grzrd stated above. The legislature is dead set against raising the gas tax.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 06, 2017, 07:25:15 PM
:banghead:

God. I'm super freaking annoyed right now.

1. The gas tax hasn't been raised in 20 years
2. MOdot had the monies five years ago.
 :ded:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on May 06, 2017, 10:47:43 PM
:banghead:

God. I'm super freaking annoyed right now.

1. The gas tax hasn't been raised in 20 years
2. MOdot had the monies five years ago.
 :ded:
That's because they're paying off bonds from the 2000's that were used to build I-64 and the I-70 bridge. etc.,  For now, approximately 200 million per year goes to pay those off.

The legislature could put the gas tax to a public vote if they wanted to, but they're not even letting it get that far. They're using the failed 2014 ballot initiative (which would have raised the sales tax 0.75% on everybody) as an excuse to say that people don't want to pay more taxes :rolleyes:. Anyways I don't think they're gonna do anything about the roads right now because they're too busy screwing over unions and any other people that are a threat to their donors.

Sorry for the mini-political rant there. I will try to refrain from those in the future.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 08, 2017, 10:38:05 AM
:banghead:

God. I'm super freaking annoyed right now.

1. The gas tax hasn't been raised in 20 years
2. MOdot had the monies five years ago.
 :ded:
That's because they're paying off bonds from the 2000's that were used to build I-64 and the I-70 bridge. etc.,  For now, approximately 200 million per year goes to pay those off.

The legislature could put the gas tax to a public vote if they wanted to, but they're not even letting it get that far. They're using the failed 2014 ballot initiative (which would have raised the sales tax 0.75% on everybody) as an excuse to say that people don't want to pay more taxes :rolleyes:. Anyways I don't think they're gonna do anything about the roads right now because they're too busy screwing over unions and any other people that are a threat to their donors.

Sorry for the mini-political rant there. I will try to refrain from those in the future.

I know. That's what makes it even more irritating​....

Damned politics.

But, no. It's helpful
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on May 09, 2017, 10:21:25 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked, but are there long-range plans for I-49 to be re-routed along MO 249/171 to eliminate the duplex with I-44?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 09, 2017, 10:43:37 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked, but are there long-range plans for I-49 to be re-routed along MO 249/171 to eliminate the duplex with I-44?

The only evidence I have seen are quotes. I don't think it's going to get done for several decades now.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on May 09, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
that doesn't even seem that hard to fix, just a flyover and realign the sb movement, it wouldn't be full access though
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on May 09, 2017, 01:01:49 PM
Sure yeah, but it's not a priority right now. The only thing that's bad about 49 right now is the weave on the cloverleaf heading north/east.

And the whole interchange needs work {{citationneeded}}
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on June 10, 2017, 11:30:44 PM
IIRC, wasn't it AR that said they were going to wait until MO built its own section of the Bella Vista Bypass? Also, I find it annoying that opposition continues to mount against a possible I-49 path into downtown Kansas City, with those dangerous signalized intersections. Something is not right with this picture, with both sides screwed over as it is.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 11, 2017, 12:00:49 AM
Sure yeah, but it's not a priority right now. The only thing that's bad about 49 right now is the weave on the cloverleaf heading north/east.

And the whole interchange needs work {{citationneeded}}

You mean the Traffic Circle? a definite Clusterf*ck
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: intelati49 on June 11, 2017, 01:24:04 PM
Sure yeah, but it's not a priority right now. The only thing that's bad about 49 right now is the weave on the cloverleaf heading north/east.

And the whole interchange needs work {{citationneeded}}

You mean the Traffic Circle? a definite Clusterf*ck

In Missouri at 44 mm18?

But yeah, the roundabout in AR is annoying
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 11, 2017, 01:39:41 PM
Sure yeah, but it's not a priority right now. The only thing that's bad about 49 right now is the weave on the cloverleaf heading north/east.

And the whole interchange needs work {{citationneeded}}

You mean the Traffic Circle? a definite Clusterf*ck

In Missouri at 44 mm18?

But yeah, the roundabout in AR is annoying

Definitely antiquated. May have been OK when it was built, but now it's not
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on June 11, 2017, 04:01:24 PM
Also, I find it annoying that opposition continues to mount against a possible I-49 path into downtown Kansas City, with those dangerous signalized intersections. Something is not right with this picture, with both sides screwed over as it is.

I don't think the opposition to upgrading US 71/Bruce Watkins Drive is there anymore.

In any case, they need to override any existing agreements and declare that since US 71 is now an Interstate south of the area (it wasn't when the improvements were made), they need to upgrade to full Interstate standards on Bruce Watkins for safety issues.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 11, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
For the predominately black neighborhood surrounding Bruce Watkins Drive on the South side of Kansas City, it's very easy to see both the pros and cons of completing I-49 through that part of the city.

The pro's side of the argument are what most of us only see. Bruce Watkins Drive would obviously be much safer and much easier to travel if I-49 was completed into downtown Kansas City. There is no debate about that. It's an undeniable fact. In my own opinion for that reason alone I-49 should be completed into downtown Kansas City. Traffic safety trumps everything else.

More pro's to the argument, having an Interstate going through a certain area of the city would enhance economic development. There's lots of small cities and towns elsewhere in the United States just crying to be added directly into the Interstate highway system. Having an Interstate highway running through your town puts your town on the map. Building a new Interstate highway through that run down part of Kansas City might bring about a lot of new investment and new economic development. Extending I-49 through there could revitalize that area.

The con's: people in that part of town are trying to just survive. If I-49 was extended through there, just how many people in that local neighborhood would be involved in any of the economic revitalization? Would the black folks still be able to afford to stay there?

How many poor, black people in that neighborhood would be eligible to move up into better paying jobs? Or would the neighborhood go through a transformation where the black residents are pushed out in favor of new luxury condos and office complexes for mostly white folks? That's really the ultimate fear. The folks who want I-49 to get built into Kansas City have done little if anything to address the fears of people living in those neighborhoods. Living costs in big cities are getting way the hell out of hand. If someone is living in a rent-controlled apartment on very limited means you can bet he will fight like hell to keep anything from disrupting that arrangement.

Looking at it from the perspective of people who live in that neighborhood they see a completed freeway, as well as the new malls and condos and office towers and all sorts of other stuff that sprout up alongside of it, as a way of pushing them out of the neighborhood.

A really skillful politician could get the highway completed through that area and set up conditions so it wouldn't disrupt the lives of people who have been living in that neighborhood for a long time. The goal should be only about getting the highway completed, not adding a bunch of douchebag yuppie, let's get rich real estate crap along for the ride.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on June 11, 2017, 11:57:29 PM
Also, I find it annoying that opposition continues to mount against a possible I-49 path into downtown Kansas City, with those dangerous signalized intersections. Something is not right with this picture, with both sides screwed over as it is.

I don't think the opposition to upgrading US 71/Bruce Watkins Drive is there anymore.

In any case, they need to override any existing agreements and declare that since US 71 is now an Interstate south of the area (it wasn't when the improvements were made), they need to upgrade to full Interstate standards on Bruce Watkins for safety issues.
Agreed on that...
For the predominately black neighborhood surrounding Bruce Watkins Drive on the South side of Kansas City, it's very easy to see both the pros and cons of completing I-49 through that part of the city.

The pro's side of the argument are what most of us only see. Bruce Watkins Drive would obviously be much safer and much easier to travel if I-49 was completed into downtown Kansas City. There is no debate about that. It's an undeniable fact. In my own opinion for that reason alone I-49 should be completed into downtown Kansas City. Traffic safety trumps everything else.

More pro's to the argument, having an Interstate going through a certain area of the city would enhance economic development. There's lots of small cities and towns elsewhere in the United States just crying to be added directly into the Interstate highway system. Having an Interstate highway running through your town puts your town on the map. Building a new Interstate highway through that run down part of Kansas City might bring about a lot of new investment and new economic development. Extending I-49 through there could revitalize that area.

The con's: people in that part of town are trying to just survive. If I-49 was extended through there, just how many people in that local neighborhood would be involved in any of the economic revitalization? Would the black folks still be able to afford to stay there?

How many poor, black people in that neighborhood would be eligible to move up into better paying jobs? Or would the neighborhood go through a transformation where the black residents are pushed out in favor of new luxury condos and office complexes for mostly white folks? That's really the ultimate fear. The folks who want I-49 to get built into Kansas City have done little if anything to address the fears of people living in those neighborhoods. Living costs in big cities are getting way the hell out of hand. If someone is living in a rent-controlled apartment on very limited means you can bet he will fight like hell to keep anything from disrupting that arrangement.

Looking at it from the perspective of people who live in that neighborhood they see a completed freeway, as well as the new malls and condos and office towers and all sorts of other stuff that sprout up alongside of it, as a way of pushing them out of the neighborhood.

A really skillful politician could get the highway completed through that area and set up conditions so it wouldn't disrupt the lives of people who have been living in that neighborhood for a long time. The goal should be only about getting the highway completed, not adding a bunch of douchebag yuppie, let's get rich real estate crap along for the ride.
...and those too! FWIW, the US 71 upgrades could be a huge benefit if done right, and I-49 needs to continue to the Downtown Loop. What happens beyond that (and this is where I-29 comes into play) can be discussed in another (preferably Fictional) thread.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on June 12, 2017, 01:48:17 AM
29 should end at the 35 split, there's no reason for it to go to the downtown loop.  the entire northern leg needs to be redesigned, realign main st, make every cross street cross, and tie 169 directly into the NW corner of the loop, remove that bs 70 does in kansas completely, and sign it on 670, kill 670.  also redesign that mess at sr 9.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on June 14, 2017, 09:35:01 AM
29 should end at the 35 split, there's no reason for it to go to the downtown loop.  the entire northern leg needs to be redesigned, realign main st, make every cross street cross, and tie 169 directly into the NW corner of the loop, remove that bs 70 does in kansas completely, and sign it on 670, kill 670.  also redesign that mess at sr 9.
That, too.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on June 30, 2017, 09:37:38 AM

Let's hope the Trunp infrastructure plan covers the Bella Vista Bypass because the 2018-22 MoDOT Southwest District Rural Project List Draft STIP (http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2018-2022/documents/Sec0406SouthwestRural.pdf) has moved the Award Date for the Bella Vista Bypass from 2020 to 2021 (p. 24/48 of pdf):

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_05_05_17_6_35_27.jpeg)
....
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_05_05_17_7_01_45.jpeg)

The Draft STIP was approved yesterday with no changes to the above projects. With the demolition contract, at least there is some progress going on. Hopefully they can get enough funds to build it and not delay it anymore.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on July 09, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
For the predominately black neighborhood surrounding Bruce Watkins Drive on the South side of Kansas City, it's very easy to see both the pros and cons of completing I-49 through that part of the city.

The pro's side of the argument are what most of us only see. Bruce Watkins Drive would obviously be much safer and much easier to travel if I-49 was completed into downtown Kansas City. There is no debate about that. It's an undeniable fact. In my own opinion for that reason alone I-49 should be completed into downtown Kansas City. Traffic safety trumps everything else.

More pro's to the argument, having an Interstate going through a certain area of the city would enhance economic development. There's lots of small cities and towns elsewhere in the United States just crying to be added directly into the Interstate highway system. Having an Interstate highway running through your town puts your town on the map. Building a new Interstate highway through that run down part of Kansas City might bring about a lot of new investment and new economic development. Extending I-49 through there could revitalize that area.

The con's: people in that part of town are trying to just survive. If I-49 was extended through there, just how many people in that local neighborhood would be involved in any of the economic revitalization? Would the black folks still be able to afford to stay there?

How many poor, black people in that neighborhood would be eligible to move up into better paying jobs? Or would the neighborhood go through a transformation where the black residents are pushed out in favor of new luxury condos and office complexes for mostly white folks? That's really the ultimate fear. The folks who want I-49 to get built into Kansas City have done little if anything to address the fears of people living in those neighborhoods. Living costs in big cities are getting way the hell out of hand. If someone is living in a rent-controlled apartment on very limited means you can bet he will fight like hell to keep anything from disrupting that arrangement.

Looking at it from the perspective of people who live in that neighborhood they see a completed freeway, as well as the new malls and condos and office towers and all sorts of other stuff that sprout up alongside of it, as a way of pushing them out of the neighborhood.

A really skillful politician could get the highway completed through that area and set up conditions so it wouldn't disrupt the lives of people who have been living in that neighborhood for a long time. The goal should be only about getting the highway completed, not adding a bunch of douchebag yuppie, let's get rich real estate crap along for the ride.


Maybe the folks in that neighborhood need to place a call to the folks at the Evangeline Thruway Redevelopment Team in Lafayette and get an organization like the Evangeline Corridor Initiative working for Bruce Watkins Drive.

More info here: Evangeline Corridor Initiative page (http://www.evangelinecorridorinitiative.com) (via Lafayette Consolidated Government)
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on July 26, 2017, 02:21:29 AM
For the predominately black neighborhood surrounding Bruce Watkins Drive on the South side of Kansas City, it's very easy to see both the pros and cons of completing I-49 through that part of the city.

The pro's side of the argument are what most of us only see. Bruce Watkins Drive would obviously be much safer and much easier to travel if I-49 was completed into downtown Kansas City. There is no debate about that. It's an undeniable fact. In my own opinion for that reason alone I-49 should be completed into downtown Kansas City. Traffic safety trumps everything else.

More pro's to the argument, having an Interstate going through a certain area of the city would enhance economic development. There's lots of small cities and towns elsewhere in the United States just crying to be added directly into the Interstate highway system. Having an Interstate highway running through your town puts your town on the map. Building a new Interstate highway through that run down part of Kansas City might bring about a lot of new investment and new economic development. Extending I-49 through there could revitalize that area.


When you start from a false premise, it's easy to reach bad conclusions. An interstate running through a town that is in the middle of nowhere will increase traffic to the community simply because some people will pull off the highway for services. An interstate through an urban metro area does absolutely nothing for the residents of the neighborhood. It divides and frequently destroys the neighborhood it runs through. Drivers aren't going to exit for services. Businesses rarely build because they are looking for either an already developed area or a greenfield. This has been shown numerous times and is what sparked the anti-freeway revolts of the 60's.

There is little chance of gentrification as their is almost nothing of value along the corridor. The housing stock isn't the old or interesting or dense enough to those looking to live in older housing. It's too far from downtown to appeal to those wanting to walk or bicycle. There's no non-bus mass transit (light rail, streetcar, subway) to appeal to millennials and other non-car commuters. Retailers won't move in until there is the right number of local residents that can support their businesses. A mall won't be built because nobody is building malls anymore except a few outlet malls. For most gentrifiers, a new freeway will decrease the aesthetic of the neighborhood. Gentrifiers want neighborhoods that are walkable. A Bruce Watkins freeway would kill that aesthetic.

If you want a freeway through south KC (and I actually think it would be a good idea), you will need to build it to appeal to the residents of the affected neighborhoods. This means a minimally invasive highway that still satisfies the needs of the commuters who are going from the burbs to Downtown KC. The only thing that would probably work for the residents is something like a series of cut-and-cover tunnels. Yes, this is expensive but do you want the freeway built or not? It's not going in as a surface freeway. It's more expensive. Missouri doesn't even have the money to build roads it needs because the anti-tax idiots want all their roads for free. So I don't see the Bruce Watkins corridor freeway ever being built.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on July 26, 2017, 10:11:39 AM
they'll build it eventually, the land is already there, they won't need to tear down any houses. 
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on July 27, 2017, 10:50:25 PM
The area of Bruce Watkins Drive in question is not a walk-able space. US-71 doesn't have any sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to it. It's already a pretty busy highway, and one that is accident prone due to the at-grade intersections at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street, not to mention the RIRO's at 69th, 60th, 57th and 53rd streets. The only "safe" places to cross US-71 on this stretch are at the 3 at grade intersections.

Quote from: skluth
When you start from a false premise, it's easy to reach bad conclusions. An interstate running through a town that is in the middle of nowhere will increase traffic to the community simply because some people will pull off the highway for services. An interstate through an urban metro area does absolutely nothing for the residents of the neighborhood. It divides and frequently destroys the neighborhood it runs through. Drivers aren't going to exit for services. Businesses rarely build because they are looking for either an already developed area or a greenfield. This has been shown numerous times and is what sparked the anti-freeway revolts of the 60's.

That's not always the case. Urban and sub-urban development trends are changing in ways not previously seen. Moving farther and farther away from city centers has lost its appeal. That fact was greatly amplified with the housing bubble collapse 10 years ago.

It doesn't take a new freeway for gentrification and yuppie motivations to push low & middle income people out of a neighborhood in favor of luxury development. Just look at San Francisco and most cities in the Bay Area or smaller cities like Santa Fe.

The neighborhoods bordering Bruce Watkins Drive don't look great, but they don't look run down terrible either. But it could get that way due to the city and state neglecting and turning its back on that neighborhood. Currently, a great deal of long distance traffic and other suburban traffic avoids that zone because it isn't a complete freeway. Fewer cars equal less potential business along that corridor. As it stands, it's not like a lot of US-71 traffic is stopping to do business at those three intersections right now. Even if completing the freeway didn't bring about a lot of new business it definitely would improve safety for both motorists and any pedestrians in the area.

Right now Missouri has little if any money for roads due to all the tax cut ideology being preached from the far right -the silly idea that flag waving and prayer is somehow going to pay for everything. If Missouri does get a decent road development budget they could improve Bruce Watkins Drive properly on at least 2 intersections. The one at 55th Street looks like it is locked into having an overpass over 55th due to the big hills in the median where a future highway would be built. The freeway could be trenched and capped with sidewalks, landscaping and green space at Gregory and 59th -basically hiding the freeway from regular street view. That's just two intersections and each wouldn't cost much more than building a SPUI.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: brycecordry on July 30, 2017, 02:15:38 PM
The area of Bruce Watkins Drive in question is not a walk-able space. US-71 doesn't have any sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to it. It's already a pretty busy highway, and one that is accident prone due to the at-grade intersections at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street, not to mention the RIRO's at 69th, 60th, 57th and 53rd streets. The only "safe" places to cross US-71 on this stretch are at the 3 at grade intersections.

Quote from: skluth
When you start from a false premise, it's easy to reach bad conclusions. An interstate running through a town that is in the middle of nowhere will increase traffic to the community simply because some people will pull off the highway for services. An interstate through an urban metro area does absolutely nothing for the residents of the neighborhood. It divides and frequently destroys the neighborhood it runs through. Drivers aren't going to exit for services. Businesses rarely build because they are looking for either an already developed area or a greenfield. This has been shown numerous times and is what sparked the anti-freeway revolts of the 60's.

That's not always the case. Urban and sub-urban development trends are changing in ways not previously seen. Moving farther and farther away from city centers has lost its appeal. That fact was greatly amplified with the housing bubble collapse 10 years ago.

It doesn't take a new freeway for gentrification and yuppie motivations to push low & middle income people out of a neighborhood in favor of luxury development. Just look at San Francisco and most cities in the Bay Area or smaller cities like Santa Fe.

The neighborhoods bordering Bruce Watkins Drive don't look great, but they don't look run down terrible either. But it could get that way due to the city and state neglecting and turning its back on that neighborhood. Currently, a great deal of long distance traffic and other suburban traffic avoids that zone because it isn't a complete freeway. Fewer cars equal less potential business along that corridor. As it stands, it's not like a lot of US-71 traffic is stopping to do business at those three intersections right now. Even if completing the freeway didn't bring about a lot of new business it definitely would improve safety for both motorists and any pedestrians in the area.

Right now Missouri has little if any money for roads due to all the tax cut ideology being preached from the far right -the silly idea that flag waving and prayer is somehow going to pay for everything. If Missouri does get a decent road development budget they could improve Bruce Watkins Drive properly on at least 2 intersections. The one at 55th Street looks like it is locked into having an overpass over 55th due to the big hills in the median where a future highway would be built. The freeway could be trenched and capped with sidewalks, landscaping and green space at Gregory and 59th -basically hiding the freeway from regular street view. That's just two intersections and each wouldn't cost much more than building a SPUI.

Actually, the first step for a new expressway through that area is for the citizens of the area to initiate a petition, and get a referendum on the ballot. There is a court order legally barring MoDOT from ever conducting major improvements on that stretch (besides preventative maintenance). Neither MoDOT nor any government, be it local, state, or federal, can do anything about it, even if traffic volumes reach unbearable levels.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on July 30, 2017, 11:20:22 PM
That's too bad. Lots of accidents, some fatal, occur there already on a frequent basis. I guess it will take a particularly grisly accident with multiple fatalities for attitudes to change.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: silverback1065 on July 31, 2017, 10:10:52 AM
That's too bad. Lots of accidents, some fatal, occur there already on a frequent basis. I guess it will take a particularly grisly accident with multiple fatalities for attitudes to change.

eventually, this will be one of the main reasons why they finish it.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on July 31, 2017, 07:59:59 PM
I just don't understand why the groups involved can't work out some kind of deal. Look at the intersection with East Meyer Blvd and US-71 (near Research Medical Center). It's not the most fancy freeway exit, but it does look nice. The surface street intersection above the freeway is attractive. Trees and other landscaping partially obscure the freeway. It has sidewalks and other green space leaving plenty of room for pedestrians. MO DOT could perhaps do something a little more elaborate and attractive for the 2 intersections where a future freeway could go under street level traffic. The Seattle area has some great examples of cut and cover freeway exits. Such improvements could beautify the US-71 corridor while dramatically improving traffic safety and efficiency.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on July 31, 2017, 08:50:05 PM

[...]

Actually, the first step for a new expressway through that area is for the citizens of the area to initiate a petition, and get a referendum on the ballot. There is a court order legally barring MoDOT from ever conducting major improvements on that stretch (besides preventative maintenance). Neither MoDOT nor any government, be it local, state, or federal, can do anything about it, even if traffic volumes reach unbearable levels.

The parties involved in the original court order could file a petition to waive it, or the city of Kansas City could vote to encourage the courts to invalidate the order, with the support of the affected neighborhoods.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on August 01, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
they'll build it eventually, the land is already there, they won't need to tear down any houses. 
That's too bad. Lots of accidents, some fatal, occur there already on a frequent basis. I guess it will take a particularly grisly accident with multiple fatalities for attitudes to change.

eventually, this will be one of the main reasons why they finish it.
The sooner, the better!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mrsman on August 13, 2017, 05:23:26 PM
they'll build it eventually, the land is already there, they won't need to tear down any houses. 
That's too bad. Lots of accidents, some fatal, occur there already on a frequent basis. I guess it will take a particularly grisly accident with multiple fatalities for attitudes to change.

eventually, this will be one of the main reasons why they finish it.
The sooner, the better!

And sadly, I believe that an accident has to involve pedestrians to make any movement here. If the mentality in the community is that only outsiders who are driving through are getting into accidents, so why should we care?  But if the current situation is seen as dangerous to those who live there then things will be different.  The danger has to be obvious to the residents, not just the suburbanites driving through.

Although, I cannot believe that the residents are happy with the current situation.  Their intransigence in keeping the highway built is hurting them most of all.  They are in most danger of getting into accidents since they can't avoid the area.  They will suffer the most from the bad effects of pollution.

It is one thing if the whole expressway were not built at all and the neighborhood were kept quiet because there is no road there.  (Example South PAsadena, CA near the I-710 corridor), but here all of the traffic is coming right through their neighborhood anyway and will pose a danger to their residents.  There is no good reason to keep this highway from being built.  The local community needs new leadership - the freeway will benefit the residents.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on August 13, 2017, 06:15:29 PM
The area of Bruce Watkins Drive in question is not a walk-able space. US-71 doesn't have any sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to it. It's already a pretty busy highway, and one that is accident prone due to the at-grade intersections at Gregory Blvd, 59th Street and 55th Street, not to mention the RIRO's at 69th, 60th, 57th and 53rd streets. The only "safe" places to cross US-71 on this stretch are at the 3 at grade intersections.


Why would anyone walk along US 71? Walkability in a neighborhood is not about walking along a busy highway. It's about walking from point A to point B. Before the homes and the business corridor along US 71 were destroyed, almost all the streets between 51st and 75th were connected east-west and people could easily walk or bike from a home west of the US 71 corridor to home on the east side. The local residents aren't too happy they no longer have that connectivity nor happy about the lost businesses that either closed or moved elsewhere. 

What do the residents want? I don't know. A couple cut-and-cover tunnels with streets and parkland above would probably be more than enough. Especially if amenities are built like dog and skateboard parks above the tunnels to attract residents. It's expensive. But if you want the road built through the neighborhood, that's probably what it would take. A starting point for negotiation would be one tunnel from 53rd to 60th and a second from 68th to 73rd. There would be no US 71 connection at Gregory Blvd as Meyer Blvd to 75th is about 1.25 miles apart. Current freeway ramps and bridges would remain and be modified to connect with the new highway tunnels. 

This would give both sides what they want. Drivers get a complete freeway along US 71. Residents get their neighborhood walkability back although many of their local small businesses are lost forever. And before complaining of the cost, ask yourself; Do you want the freeway or not?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on August 13, 2017, 10:38:37 PM
Quote from: skluth
Why would anyone walk along US 71? Walkability in a neighborhood is not about walking along a busy highway.

It's not about walking along a busy highway. It's about being able to walk across easily. The major complaint about super highways is they create a tremendous physical and visual barrier that splits neighborhoods in half, isolating each side from the other. There is no dispute that freeways are guilty of causing exactly that kind of problem. Super highways are still vital in many places. The obvious compromise is creating these cut and cover freeway crossings that do a lot to hide the highway.

As for businesses along the highway, brick and mortar stores everywhere are in trouble thanks to what seems like unstoppable growth in online shopping. Even if online merchants like Amazon are collecting sales tax they're still mostly taking money out of local economies. Brick and mortar businesses pay far more in taxes (property taxes for instance) and consume far more in local services. And their employees make an impact on the local economy. We could be looking at tens of millions of jobs being lost pretty soon. Then we won't need to worry about improving highways. I design signs for a living, so I know my own job could be eliminated through these trends.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on August 14, 2017, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: skluth
Why would anyone walk along US 71? Walkability in a neighborhood is not about walking along a busy highway.

It's not about walking along a busy highway. It's about being able to walk across easily.

You had previously stated
Quote
The area of Bruce Watkins Drive in question is not a walk-able space. US-71 doesn't have any sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to it.

You stated sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to the highway. This is why I explained what walkability means. Please don't lecture me for accurately quoting you and clarifying the meaning, especially when you ignore the rest of the quote when I explained the exact same thing you then went on to explain after I already explained it.  :banghead:

I also agree with you that many storefront businesses have been lost to the internet. I do think some would have survived along with the plumbers, dry cleaners, and other local businesses that can't be satisfied by distant office.

I think we're both generally in agreement here in that we both think it would be good to build the highway with cut-and-cover tunnels. The details are for the planners. It's expensive, but the only solution which will get the US 71 freeway completed.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on August 14, 2017, 09:46:17 PM

Why would anyone walk along US 71?

Photos?  :wave:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on August 15, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: skluth
You stated sidewalks or bike paths running parallel to the highway. This is why I explained what walkability means. Please don't lecture me for accurately quoting you and clarifying the meaning, especially when you ignore the rest of the quote when I explained the exact same thing you then went on to explain after I already explained it.

Practice what you preach when it comes to that "lecturing" crap. Just about anyone here in this forum is 100% correctly aware of what walkability means. No one needs it explained to them, especially in the tone illustrated above. This discussion isn't of life and death importance to me. It won't bother me to tune out this thread if need be. If you're getting your panties in a bunch because I didn't dot my eyes and cross my tees to the anal retentive degree of a contract lawyer then that's your problem. The fact remains that section of Bruce Watkins Drive is dangerous to both motorists and pedestrians because of the irregularity of a freeway disrupted by 3 traffic signals. The fact remains there are very obvious (but not cheap) solutions to completing I-49 through that part of Kansas City while dramatically improving pedestrian access across that corridor (and maybe even parallel to it).
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Scott5114 on August 15, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
I design signs for a living, so I know my own job could be eliminated through these trends.

I wouldn't worry too much about your job—while you could design a sign anywhere, shipping something that large gets really expensive, really quickly. Amazon cuts their shipping costs by having a network of regional warehouses, but for a bespoke sign, that would mean having multiple manufacturing centers, and that's pretty unlikely to be cost-effective. Much easier to just design, manufacture, and ship locally.

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/Themes/Button_Copy/images/buttons/mutcd_merge.png)Post Merge: August 15, 2017, 07:16:54 PM

Why would anyone walk along US 71?

Photos?  :wave:


I'm pretty sure I've walked alongside you at a meet, but I dunno if anyone took photos...

Oh, wait, you meant the other US-71 :spin:
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on August 16, 2017, 01:26:55 AM
Quote from: Scott5114
I wouldn't worry too much about your job—while you could design a sign anywhere, shipping something that large gets really expensive, really quickly. Amazon cuts their shipping costs by having a network of regional warehouses, but for a bespoke sign, that would mean having multiple manufacturing centers, and that's pretty unlikely to be cost-effective. Much easier to just design, manufacture, and ship locally.

The problem is widespread decimation of the brick and mortar retail sector will have far-reaching consequences. Lots of local businesses, such as heating & air companies, landscapers, electricians and much more derive a big part of their business from brick and mortar retailers. And then there's all the people those retailers employ. Eliminate those jobs and you have a major loss to the tax base and cash flow base of the community. Oklahoma is already struggling badly enough with a terribly short-sighted tax policy. Throw a whole lot of service industry people out of their jobs thanks to the convenience of online shopping and the situation will get a whole lot more ugly. Sign companies are among the first to feel economic down-turns. Thankfully Oklahoma dodged some of the worst effects of the great recession. I still remember the dot-com bubble bust at the end of the 1990's. We damned near went out of business with that down-turn.

I only cringed at all the glowing news reports about all the jobs the new Amazon distribution hub in Oklahoma City will create. For every job in that distro hub there's probably 100 jobs or even much more in the brick and mortar sector being eliminated. And a bunch of those jobs Amazon is creating might be temporary. That company is really big on automating things.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: johndoe on August 16, 2017, 06:55:23 AM

There is a court order legally barring MoDOT from ever conducting major improvements on that stretch (besides preventative maintenance).
Interesting, is that document available online? I wonder just how "major" an improvement would have to be.  I.e.turn lanes, islands?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: rte66man on August 16, 2017, 11:38:58 AM

There is a court order legally barring MoDOT from ever conducting major improvements on that stretch (besides preventative maintenance).
Interesting, is that document available online? I wonder just how "major" an improvement would have to be.  I.e.turn lanes, islands?

http://modotblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/missouri-has-first-in-nation-economic.html

Scroll down to the following:

"MoDOT said...
Bruce R. Watkins Drive, a 10.2-mile, divided state highway between the 3-Trails Crossing interchange and the Downtown Loop, was completed in October 2001. The project includes $220 million in construction; $55 million in right-of-way costs; $15 million to design; and nearly $6 million for beautification and enhancements.
The intersections on Bruce R. Watkins Drive at 55th Street, 59th Street and Gregory Boulevard that are controlled by traffic signals are not planned for changes. The residents along this drive fought diligently to demand these restrictions. Neither MoDOT nor the Missouri General Assembly can change this. It is a court-mandated design, negotiated to end a class-action lawsuit that delayed construction of Bruce R. Watkins Drive for two decades. Any change must be initiated in federal court.
Let me provide some history. What is now Bruce R. Watkins Drive started out in 1951 as a Kansas City Plan Commission concept to connect the south with the north along Route 71. At the time America was beginning a post-World War II highway expansion era that was soon to launch the interstate system. Four-lane, divided highways and limited-access freeways were seen as the next step in America’s transportation future. The South Midtown Freeway (as the concept was then named) was envisioned as a major element of the city’s highway master plan. It has evolved into a community asset far different than what was originally envisioned. By the mid-1960s, Kansas City officials had gained support for the project and received Highway Commission approval of a corridor plan. By 1970 properties on the south side of the project, from Bannister Road to 63rd Street, were being acquired. A lawsuit filed in the early 1970s by property owners in the path of the project stalled progress for more than a decade.
By 1987 work was again under way, but the design had changed. No longer a controlled-access freeway, the project was changed to a trafficway with signalized intersections at several key points and added emphasis on building a more attractive drive to complement neighborhoods. The final segment of Bruce R. Watkins Drive was completed by the end of 2001. The last segment, from 31st Street to the downtown loop, rapidly moves a large volume of traffic directly south instead of filtering it east and southwest through I-70 and city streets.
You have a highway carrying 70,000 vehicles a day a year after it opened (2001), which is more than I-70 at Blue Springs. Counts taken by MoDOT in August 2002 show that combined average annual daily traffic northbound and southbound at 47th Street is 70,734 vehicles. The same average daily count on Watkins Drive at Truman Road just south of the busy Downtown Loop is 51,719 vehicles. In 20 years it is expected to be more than 80,000 vehicles daily. Ample right of way was acquired to someday allow MoDOT to reconstruct the three signal-controlled, at-grade intersections to grade-separated interchanges, allowing traffic on Bruce R. Watkins Drive to flow unimpeded. Neither MoDOT nor the city of Kansas City can initiate this change. It is up to the citizens, who must raise the issue again through the court system to amend the class-action agreement. But what is in place now is safe, as long as motorists obey all traffic controls, posted speed limits and avoid distractions while driving.
February 25, 2009 at 8:53 AM"

I'll do some digging and see if I can find anything on he Federal Court level.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: dvferyance on August 17, 2017, 04:06:34 PM
29 should end at the 35 split, there's no reason for it to go to the downtown loop.  the entire northern leg needs to be redesigned, realign main st, make every cross street cross, and tie 169 directly into the NW corner of the loop, remove that bs 70 does in kansas completely, and sign it on 670, kill 670.  also redesign that mess at sr 9.
It should be. I thought the duplex was there becasue it was planned to be extended farther south. But since US 71 became I-49 and not I-29 there is no reason for it to be there. MM1 is at the spit with I-35 anyways so no exits would have have to be changed to reflect the new mileage.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on August 17, 2017, 04:23:01 PM
29 should end at the 35 split, there's no reason for it to go to the downtown loop.  the entire northern leg needs to be redesigned, realign main st, make every cross street cross, and tie 169 directly into the NW corner of the loop, remove that bs 70 does in kansas completely, and sign it on 670, kill 670.  also redesign that mess at sr 9.
It should be. I thought the duplex was there becasue it was planned to be extended farther south. But since US 71 became I-49 and not I-29 there is no reason for it to be there. MM1 is at the spit with I-35 anyways so no exits would have have to be changed to reflect the new mileage.

I-29's duplexed strictly for informative purposes -- to let drivers know that that particular alignment north from downtown leads to I-29 as well as I-35.  The same thing could be accomplished by "TO I-29" signage on the approaches to NB I-35, with a reassurance shield/sign or two scattered along NB I-35. 

And -- at the risk of verging on fictional here -- killing I-670 and replacing it with the I-70 main line would free up that number for use on MO 370 in metro St. Louis -- just a thought!
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 18, 2017, 10:18:35 AM
AHTD (soon to be ARDOT) apparently announced to the Arkansas Highway Commission (http://www.arkansashighways.com/PowerPoints/2017/20170607%20AHC%20Meeting%20slides.pdf) that it will submit a joint application with MoDOT to finally complete the Bella Vista Bypass during the next round of FASTLANE and/or TIGER grant applications (p. 22/148 of pdf):
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_06_17_11_40_02.png)

In ARDOT's July 26, 2017 presentation to the Arkansas State Highway Commission (http://www.arkansashighways.com/PowerPoints/2017/20170726%20AHC%20Meeting.pdf), they informed the Commission that they will submit the joint application for the Bella Vista Bypass as an INFRA grant application (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20590.msg2239213#msg2239213) by the November 2 deadline (pp. 25-26/85 of pdf):

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_16_08_17_10_27_35.png)

Also, for the November 15 letting, ARDOT is tentatively planning to add the other two lanes to the majority of the Bella Vista Bypass (http://www.arkansashighways.com/ProgCon/General/Next_Three_Lettings.pdf):

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_16_08_17_10_43_07.png)
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_16_08_17_10_49_48.png)

Slowly, but surely ...............
On the next page of the PDF, it also States the final 7.1 miles of the Bella Vista Bypass is up for letting as a combination project.

LGL64VL

Per the above on the I-49 Arkansas thread, it looks Like Arkansas is going to push to finish I-49 (Bella Vista Bypass) to the state line.  Has there been any movement on this in Missouri?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Anthony_JK on August 18, 2017, 12:31:09 PM

[...]

Per the above on the I-49 Arkansas thread, it looks Like Arkansas is going to push to finish I-49 (Bella Vista Bypass) to the state line.  Has there been any movement on this in Missouri?


Considering that Missouri is a joint applicant in the INFRA grant application for the BVB, I'd say that they are as committed to doing this as Arkansas is.

Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 18, 2017, 06:31:49 PM
DOH! I missed that...

Still deserves a mention on this thread, though.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on August 18, 2017, 11:08:59 PM
29 should end at the 35 split, there's no reason for it to go to the downtown loop.  the entire northern leg needs to be redesigned, realign main st, make every cross street cross, and tie 169 directly into the NW corner of the loop, remove that bs 70 does in kansas completely, and sign it on 670, kill 670.  also redesign that mess at sr 9.
It should be. I thought the duplex was there becasue it was planned to be extended farther south. But since US 71 became I-49 and not I-29 there is no reason for it to be there. MM1 is at the spit with I-35 anyways so no exits would have have to be changed to reflect the new mileage.

I-29's duplexed strictly for informative purposes -- to let drivers know that that particular alignment north from downtown leads to I-29 as well as I-35.  The same thing could be accomplished by "TO I-29" signage on the approaches to NB I-35, with a reassurance shield/sign or two scattered along NB I-35. 

And -- at the risk of verging on fictional here -- killing I-670 and replacing it with the I-70 main line would free up that number for use on MO 370 in metro St. Louis -- just a thought!
I still think that should be I-370. If they reapplied with that number to AASHTO they should get it. But the state has too many other roads issues to worry about right now.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: mvak36 on September 11, 2017, 11:26:43 AM
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2017/sep/09/missouri-money-woes-to-delay-bella-vist/?news-arkansas-nwa

Basically, nothing new. Won't get it till at least 2021. Only hope is that INFRA grant.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2018, 08:24:02 PM
So if the voters approve the gas tax hike in MO this fall, could we FINALLY see the Bella Vista Bypass finished?
(above quote from I-49 in Arkansas (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg2330313#msg2330313) thread)

As I-39 mentioned, Missouri voters will vote on a proposed ten-cent gas increase in November:

Quote
Missouri voters will have the opportunity in November to vote on a tax increase that would fund road and bridge projects across the state.
Lawmakers during the week of May 14 sent a proposed 10-cent gas tax hike to the Nov. 6 ballot for voters to consider. Legislative researchers project it could raise as much as $293 million by fiscal year 2027 to go toward maintenance and repair of roads and bridges, as well as the Missouri State Highway Patrol.
The gas tax is a flat, per-gallon amount collected on fuel sold within the state; it does not change with the fluctuating prices of the fuel itself. The proposal now before voters very nearly aligns with a recommendation made earlier this year by a 23-member state task force that suggested an increase of 10 cents for gasoline and 12 cents for diesel fuel ....
Priority projects
Joplin-area leaders have a wish list of projects they say are needed in the metropolitan area: the widening of Interstate 44 to six lanes from the state line to Springfield, construction of a west bypass to connect Missouri Highway 171 to I-44, the widening of Highway 171 to accommodate traffic from Carl Junction to Carthage, a bypass around Bella Vista, Ark., that connects with I-49 in McDonald County.

I think that so many projects are screaming for money that even if the measure passes it is unlikely that anything will happen on the Bella Vista Bypass quickly. The current best hope is an INFRA grant.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 26, 2018, 12:57:54 AM
If I had to bet on the outcome of the Missouri gas tax vote I'd bet on it failing in resounding fashion. Most voters think you can fund new highway projects and existing road maintenance with pocket change for chewing gum. They're not interested in getting a clue of how much the stuff costs.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on May 30, 2018, 08:23:48 PM
If I had to bet on the outcome of the Missouri gas tax vote I'd bet on it failing in resounding fashion. Most voters think you can fund new highway projects and existing road maintenance with pocket change for chewing gum. They're not interested in getting a clue of how much the stuff costs.

It's more complicated than that, but that's all I have to say in public.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on May 31, 2018, 09:00:05 PM
If I had to bet on the outcome of the Missouri gas tax vote I'd bet on it failing in resounding fashion. Most voters think you can fund new highway projects and existing road maintenance with pocket change for chewing gum. They're not interested in getting a clue of how much the stuff costs.

Actually, I think this measure has a better chance of passing than the sales tax a few years ago. From what I've read, there appears to be more support this time around. I think people are finally realizing that something has to be done here soon, and this tax hike is more fair as it is only paid for by people who use the roads.

I'm not 100% sold it will pass, but I am cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on May 31, 2018, 09:02:26 PM
I think that so many projects are screaming for money that even if the measure passes it is unlikely that anything will happen on the Bella Vista Bypass quickly. The current best hope is an INFRA grant.

They don't have much to build in Missouri, and they know how important it is to finish it, so I think they will expedite the Bella Vista Bypass if the gas tax increase passes.

But if they did get the INFRA grant, then the money could be used elsewhere, like upgrading the US 60/67 corridor between Sikeston and the state line to I-57.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: J N Winkler on May 31, 2018, 10:24:03 PM
Actually, I think this measure has a better chance of passing than the sales tax a few years ago. From what I've read, there appears to be more support this time around. I think people are finally realizing that something has to be done here soon, and this tax hike is more fair as it is only paid for by people who use the roads.

I agree with this analysis.  My recollection is that Governor Nixon scheduled the sales tax increment for the August primary (which typically attracts more conservative voters) rather than the November general election because he considered it regressive and wanted to kill it.  Of course the gas tax itself is regressive, but even in states with a long history of underinvesting in highways, I think there is a growing awareness that it is better to devise other methods to offset the impact of a fuel tax increase on the poor (such as a state-level earned income tax credit) than to postpone highway investment further.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Henry on June 01, 2018, 09:14:00 AM
I think that so many projects are screaming for money that even if the measure passes it is unlikely that anything will happen on the Bella Vista Bypass quickly. The current best hope is an INFRA grant.

They don't have much to build in Missouri, and they know how important it is to finish it, so I think they will expedite the Bella Vista Bypass if the gas tax increase passes.

But if they did get the INFRA grant, then the money could be used elsewhere, like upgrading the US 60/67 corridor between Sikeston and the state line to I-57.
As they say, time will tell.

The Bella Vista Bypass is a more immediate need right now; I-57 can wait.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on June 01, 2018, 11:56:44 AM
I think that so many projects are screaming for money that even if the measure passes it is unlikely that anything will happen on the Bella Vista Bypass quickly. The current best hope is an INFRA grant.

They don't have much to build in Missouri, and they know how important it is to finish it, so I think they will expedite the Bella Vista Bypass if the gas tax increase passes.

But if they did get the INFRA grant, then the money could be used elsewhere, like upgrading the US 60/67 corridor between Sikeston and the state line to I-57.
As they say, time will tell.

The Bella Vista Bypass is a more immediate need right now; I-57 can wait.

There are a lot of more immediate needs in Missouri than I-57. Making I-70 six lanes across the state. Selectively upgrading I-44 to six lanes. Making US 50 four lanes across Missouri. Upgrading US 61 between Wentzville and Troy to freeway. Fixing the complete cluster at I-70/US 63. Probably four-laning US 63 south of Jeff City to Thayer. Upgrading the remaining little bit of US 67 south of Poplar Bluff would be fine - it's only about a dozen miles - but the expense of making it a full interstate is overkill. There's not enough traffic to justify it. Missouri should consider buying the right-of-way to do it. But that would require Missouri to think even a little bit ahead and I have yet to see MODOT or the state legislature do that.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 01, 2018, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: skluth
Upgrading the remaining little bit of US 67 south of Poplar Bluff would be fine - it's only about a dozen miles - but the expense of making it a full interstate is overkill. There's not enough traffic to justify it. Missouri should consider buying the right-of-way to do it. But that would require Missouri to think even a little bit ahead and I have yet to see MODOT or the state legislature do that.

MODOT at the very least needs to identify a corridor for I-57 from the US-67/MO-158 exit South of Poplar Bluff down to the AR state line and start acquiring ROW. They need to at least start planning for it before the corridor gets boxed in with development. They may be able to expand a good bit of US-67, but new terrain alignments (such as a bypass of Neelyville) will probably be necessary.

Finishing I-49 should be the top priority. Once the Belle Vista bypass is completed further development of I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana will be able to be far more focused.

Current traffic levels on US-67 between Poplar Bluff and the Arkansas state line aren't enough to justify an Interstate class upgrade. However that will change in a very big way once I-57 is completed between Walnut Ridge and Poplar Bluff. I-57 would become the primary corridor between the gigantic Chicago and Dallas-Fort Worth metro areas. Right now most of the traffic going between DFW and Chicago is using I-35 up to Oklahoma City, I-44 to St Louis and then I-55 the rest of the way. I-30 to I-57 is potentially a more direct route. But that depends on how the current I-57 gap is filled.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: ftballfan on June 01, 2018, 05:27:11 PM
Has MODOT ever thought about making their section of the Bella Vista bypass a toll road?
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: US71 on June 01, 2018, 10:03:34 PM
Has MODOT ever thought about making their section of the Bella Vista bypass a toll road?

Not to my knowledge.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: I-39 on June 02, 2018, 06:14:06 PM
Quote from: skluth
Upgrading the remaining little bit of US 67 south of Poplar Bluff would be fine - it's only about a dozen miles - but the expense of making it a full interstate is overkill. There's not enough traffic to justify it. Missouri should consider buying the right-of-way to do it. But that would require Missouri to think even a little bit ahead and I have yet to see MODOT or the state legislature do that.

MODOT at the very least needs to identify a corridor for I-57 from the US-67/MO-158 exit South of Poplar Bluff down to the AR state line and start acquiring ROW. They need to at least start planning for it before the corridor gets boxed in with development. They may be able to expand a good bit of US-67, but new terrain alignments (such as a bypass of Neelyville) will probably be necessary.

Finishing I-49 should be the top priority. Once the Belle Vista bypass is completed further development of I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana will be able to be far more focused.

Current traffic levels on US-67 between Poplar Bluff and the Arkansas state line aren't enough to justify an Interstate class upgrade. However that will change in a very big way once I-57 is completed between Walnut Ridge and Poplar Bluff. I-57 would become the primary corridor between the gigantic Chicago and Dallas-Fort Worth metro areas. Right now most of the traffic going between DFW and Chicago is using I-35 up to Oklahoma City, I-44 to St Louis and then I-55 the rest of the way. I-30 to I-57 is potentially a more direct route. But that depends on how the current I-57 gap is filled.

While I agree I-49 is more of a priority, I-57 would be much easier to complete, as it is less miles on less rough terrain.

Missouri should go ahead (if the gas tax hike passes) and finish the four lane US 67 between MO 158 and the state line, even if it is only built to expressway standards to begin with. To avoid another Bella Vista bypass like situation, ArDOT and MoDOT should focus on building the Corning to Poplar Bluff section of US 67/Future I-57 as it is probably the easiest of the remaining sections and it requires cross border cooperation.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 02, 2018, 10:00:55 PM
I think the federal government has a greater responsibility to fund the completion of the I-57 gap than leaving it up to state or even local resources. Completion of the I-57 corridor provides greater benefits to regions well outside of that immediate area. I already mentioned the direct DFW to Chicago link. Filling in that gap also would help shorten the driving distance for other Southwest to Northeast region trips.

Completing I-57 might also pull some traffic off other really busy routes, such as the US-69 corridor in Oklahoma between Dallas and Big Cabin (not to mention I-35 up to OKC). The idiots in Atoka, Stringtown and other po-dunk areas along that way that have been blocking Interstate quality upgrades for many years will have their obstructionist strategy come back and bite them square in the ass. They'll see traffic levels and local business activity take a serious hit.

The existing US-67 facility is sufficient for local needs. Taxpayers in Arkansas and Missouri won't see as much benefit from completing that corridor as interests elsewhere in the nation. On the other hand, both Arkansas and Missouri stand to benefit more directly from the completion of I-49. The Northwest part of Arkansas is one of the fastest growing regions in the country. The Kansas City metro is a major cross-roads of the Interstate highway system. Completing the Belle Vista Bypass and the gap between Fort Smith and Texarkana would give these areas direct, high speed access to the Gulf of Mexico, not to mention the I-29 corridor up into Canada.
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on June 02, 2018, 10:42:24 PM
I think the federal government has a greater responsibility to fund the completion of the I-57 gap than leaving it up to state or even local resources. Completion of the I-57 corridor provides greater benefits to regions well outside of that immediate area. I already mentioned the direct DFW to Chicago link. Filling in that gap also would help shorten the driving distance for other Southwest to Northeast region trips.

Completing I-57 might also pull some traffic off other really busy routes, such as the US-69 corridor in Oklahoma between Dallas and Big Cabin (not to mention I-35 up to OKC). The idiots in Atoka, Stringtown and other po-dunk areas along that way that have been blocking Interstate quality upgrades for many years will have their obstructionist strategy come back and bite them square in the ass. They'll see traffic levels and local business activity take a serious hit.

The existing US-67 facility is sufficient for local needs. Taxpayers in Arkansas and Missouri won't see as much benefit from completing that corridor as interests elsewhere in the nation. On the other hand, both Arkansas and Missouri stand to benefit more directly from the completion of I-49. The Northwest part of Arkansas is one of the fastest growing regions in the country. The Kansas City metro is a major cross-roads of the Interstate highway system. Completing the Belle Vista Bypass and the gap between Fort Smith and Texarkana would give these areas direct, high speed access to the Gulf of Mexico, not to mention the I-29 corridor up into Canada.

It's hardly surprising that there's developmental activity in the LA/AR/MO region regarding new (although the extended I-49 concept has been active for 27 years), since the area between I-35 and I-55 was largely avoided, at least for N-S-oriented corridors, in the network's original 1956-58 iteration and ignored in the 1968 additions.  Avoidance of the Ozark/Ouachita highlands -- except for I-40 and I-44, exceptions which were necessary for national connectivity, seemed to be on the minds of national planners; punching what's now I-49 through the heart of all that probably was considered not to be a cost-effective prospect during the first couple of decades of Interstate development.  But now that wall has been partially breached; the two newer corridors through and flanking the uplands may be the first of several -- although if & when 49 & 57 are done, it wouldn't surprise me if all parties involved took a long break before taking on any other similar projects (such as something across US 60 from Springfield to Poplar Bluff).  With all the current and planned activity, at least the region can't complain that it's being ignored!       
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: skluth on June 02, 2018, 11:01:49 PM
The existing US-67 facility is sufficient for local needs. Taxpayers in Arkansas and Missouri won't see as much benefit from completing that corridor as interests elsewhere in the nation. On the other hand, both Arkansas and Missouri stand to benefit more directly from the completion of I-49.

I don't think completing I-57 to Little Rock does anything for DFW-CHI traffic. The I-57 extension shaves 10 miles on the corridor from Little Rock to Sikeston. The remaining I-30/57 corridor is identical. I doubt that's enough to divert any current traffic between Dallas and Chicago from whatever companies currently use.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4940893,-88.3096141,14z?hl=en
Title: Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
Post by: sparker on June 03, 2018, 01:21:40 AM