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Regional Boards => Ohio Valley => Topic started by: mukade on June 25, 2011, 08:55:31 AM

Title: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 25, 2011, 08:55:31 AM
I live north of Indy, but had a work assignment in Arkansas for 8 weeks. One week I drove, and I flew the other seven weeks.

With that background, the one week I drove, I took the long way to see the progress on highway. I started at US 231 near Crane where earth was being moved, but construction was only in preliminary stages. As I went south, a thunderstorm hit, but work at the SR 58 and US 50 interchanges was a bit further along. Other locations I saw were limited to tree removal, but at least it was under construction.

A couple of weeks ago I flew from Indy to Memphis on the way and from DFW to Indy on the way back so I saw the aerial view both from the east and west. That is where it is cool. You can see the 65+ miles of I-69 from north of Evansville clearly under construction, but it appeared to me that the constant thunderstorms this year may be taking its toll on the schedule. The only area where I saw no evidence of construction from the air was the approximately 4 mile section just east of Petersburg, but that contract was just awarded in early May.

I saw some overpasses, but the planes were still to high to see good details. The only paved area I could clearly see was the section just north of where I-69 terminates at SR 68. All in all, it was just pretty cool to see that so much of this much needed highway is actually being built.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on June 25, 2011, 01:47:32 PM
I live north of Indy, but had a work assignment in Arkansas for 8 weeks. One week I drove, and I flew the other seven weeks.

With that background, the one week I drove, I took the long way to see the progress on highway. I started at US 231 near Crane where earth was being moved, but construction was only in preliminary stages. As I went south, a thunderstorm hit, but work at the SR 58 and US 50 interchanges was a bit further along. Other locations I saw were limited to tree removal, but at least it was under construction.

A couple of weeks ago I flew from Indy to Memphis on the way and from DFW to Indy on the way back so I saw the aerial view both from the east and west. That is where it is cool. You can see the 65+ miles of I-69 from north of Evansville clearly under construction, but it appeared to me that the constant thunderstorms this year may be taking its toll on the schedule. The only area where I saw no evidence of construction from the air was the approximately 4 mile section just east of Petersburg, but that contract was just awarded in early May.

I saw some overpasses, but the planes were still to high to see good details. The only paved area I could clearly see was the section just north of where I-69 terminates at SR 68. All in all, it was just pretty cool to see that so much of this much needed highway is actually being built.

Photos?

 :poke:

 :cool:

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on June 25, 2011, 02:17:34 PM
Last time I checked in late April it appeared almost ready to go north of it's current ending.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 25, 2011, 06:14:19 PM
I live north of Indy, but had a work assignment in Arkansas for 8 weeks. One week I drove, and I flew the other seven weeks.

With that background, the one week I drove, I took the long way to see the progress on highway. I started at US 231 near Crane where earth was being moved, but construction was only in preliminary stages. As I went south, a thunderstorm hit, but work at the SR 58 and US 50 interchanges was a bit further along. Other locations I saw were limited to tree removal, but at least it was under construction.

A couple of weeks ago I flew from Indy to Memphis on the way and from DFW to Indy on the way back so I saw the aerial view both from the east and west. That is where it is cool. You can see the 65+ miles of I-69 from north of Evansville clearly under construction, but it appeared to me that the constant thunderstorms this year may be taking its toll on the schedule. The only area where I saw no evidence of construction from the air was the approximately 4 mile section just east of Petersburg, but that contract was just awarded in early May.

I saw some overpasses, but the planes were still to high to see good details. The only paved area I could clearly see was the section just north of where I-69 terminates at SR 68. All in all, it was just pretty cool to see that so much of this much needed highway is actually being built.

Photos?

 :poke:

 :cool:

Mike
Excuses (but true ones): The drive was the day of the Joplin tornado and my destination was less than 100 miles from there. The weather was very unstable that day in Indiana and so I missed some great shots because of heavy thunderstorms. Around Washington, my wife called so I didn't take a picture there either despite it having cleared up. As for the planes, it didn't even cross my mind that I might see I-69 so all I had was my iPod Touch camera. I will drive down there in August or September on my own time.

These are all I got:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/aa/I69fromAir.jpg)
From flight IND-MEM over Crane
(http://highwayexplorer.com/aa/I69NB-2.JPG)
Looking north at current terminus at SR 68 (paved as far as you can see, but not up to SR 168)
(http://highwayexplorer.com/aa/US231atI69-3.jpg)
SB US 231 at I-69 between big thunderstorms
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on June 25, 2011, 10:05:42 PM
It's highly unusual for roads to be built in big chunks like this. Kentucky hasn't built stretches this long of new road in years. We typically relocate roads in short segments (5 miles or so). Amazing -- and very good -- to see such a long stretch of a new road being constructed.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on June 26, 2011, 10:08:30 AM
For those of us who were to young to see the boom of the 60's and early 70's Interstate construction. This is a big time treat and somewhat shows us that the US can still build roads and build them in a hurry.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on June 26, 2011, 12:41:13 PM
I saw some overpasses, but the planes were still to high to see good details. The only paved area I could clearly see was the section just north of where I-69 terminates at SR 68. All in all, it was just pretty cool to see that so much of this much needed highway is actually being built.

Excuses (but true ones): The drive was the day of the Joplin tornado and my destination was less than 100 miles from there. The weather was very unstable that day in Indiana and so I missed some great shots because of heavy thunderstorms. Around Washington, my wife called so I didn't take a picture there either despite it having cleared up. As for the planes, it didn't even cross my mind that I might see I-69 so all I had was my iPod Touch camera. I will drive down there in August or September on my own time.

These are all I got:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/aa/I69NB-2.JPG)
Looking north at current terminus at SR 68 (paved as far as you can see, but not up to SR 168)

We drove through Evansville on May 27th and checked out the I-69 stub as well:

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068.jpg)

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on June 29, 2011, 07:04:24 PM
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg)

Those outside breakdown lanes are what, two feet wide? What's the deal with that???
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 29, 2011, 07:16:14 PM

Those outside breakdown lanes are what, two feet wide? What's the deal with that???

I think the outer breakdown lane is partly concrete and partly asphalt.  it's tough to tell from the contrast, but it looks to me like the width of the concrete is about 2 1/2 lanes, not just 2.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on June 29, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
^ Could be the asphalt shoulder doesn't go to the same depth of the PCC pavement and a later lift has yet to be added.  That wider section of PCC at the bottom of the photo looks odd though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on July 22, 2011, 05:44:40 PM
It's a big chunk under construction because 1) Indiana's share is coming out of the toll road lease yeild and 2) the governor and INDOT took advantage of the recession and lower than expected bids. The schedule was accelerated to avoid any increase in costs.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2011, 09:06:10 PM

From the Evansville Courier-Press: "UPDATE: Portion of I-69 project receives final approval on environmental impact "

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/25/portion-i-69-project-receives-final-approval-envir/ (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/25/portion-i-69-project-receives-final-approval-envir/)

"The Indiana Department of Transportation announced Monday the state has completed its set of plans for a section that will run from the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Bloomington.

It expects to win approval from the Federal Highway Administration later this summer, and at that point, construction can begin."
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: wriddle082 on July 25, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069.jpg)

Those outside breakdown lanes are what, two feet wide? What's the deal with that???

The shoulders you're seeing are the asphalt underlayment for the final concrete surface.  The shoulders, when completed, will be concrete of standard widths (10' on the right and I think 4' on the left, or maybe it's 5').  At the bottom of the photo it looks like the contractor finished the shoulders on a short portion just wide enough for construction vehicles and machinery to cross both carriageways without damaging the edges of the travel lanes.  Finishing off the shoulders the rest of the way is probably one of the final construction steps in this project, followed by rumble strip grinding, diamond grinding the travel lanes, and finally striping.

I should also add that I commend InDOT for building this highway correctly the first time with concrete!  Having recently moved from a state that primarily uses asphalt (Tennessee) to one that recently built several new roads in concrete (South Carolina), it's good to see other states spend the extra money for a surface that I feel provides more advantages than disadvantages, both from a longevity and a safety standpoint.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 26, 2011, 07:20:39 AM
I would say those are the final shoulders. Below is a photo from the recently-opened US 24 east of Fort Wayne. It has PCCP, but with asphalt shoulders. The new US 31 freeway has the same thing, but the high volume freeways generally get PCCP for everything.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/US24p2.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 26, 2011, 10:50:48 PM
Looks like Pete Rahn's "Pratical Design" has made it to the Hoosier State.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 29, 2011, 06:58:59 PM
More I-69 news from today: Daniels renews support for I-69 during Crane Technology Park ceremony... "we’ll see it (I-69) through in Bloomington, whether they like it or not”


http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=206&ArticleID=61068 (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=206&ArticleID=61068)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on July 31, 2011, 12:15:33 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110730/NEWS02/307300062/Indiana-s-transportation-commissioner-rejects-Monroe-County-plan-excluding-69 (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110730/NEWS02/307300062/Indiana-s-transportation-commissioner-rejects-Monroe-County-plan-excluding-69)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on August 05, 2011, 10:15:54 PM
Like I have said before maybe INDOT can remove all exits in Monroe County or at least make them toll. Shallow yes but given the pain in the butt the NIMBY's in Monroe County have been it's well, well deserved.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: njroadhorse on August 06, 2011, 12:23:20 PM
It's a big chunk under construction because 1) Indiana's share is coming out of the toll road lease yeild and 2) the governor and INDOT took advantage of the recession and lower than expected bids. The schedule was accelerated to avoid any increase in costs.

Well played on INDOT's part to acceleerate things. I wish other DOTs would do that sometimes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on September 01, 2011, 10:26:36 AM
Section 2 (I-64 to Indiana 64) and Section 3 (Indiana 64 to Crane) are both still on track to be open to traffic by December, 2012.  FHWA is expected to issue a ROD regarding Section 4 (Crane to Bloomington) tomorrow [some construction photos are included with the linked article]:
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/aug/29/no-headline---ev_interstate69/

Quote
Interstate 69 from Evansville to Crane is on time and under budget, say Indiana Department of Transportation officials who hope to soon say the same about the stretch from there to Bloomington, Ind.
With a decision from the Federal Highway Administration expected Friday, contractors may proceed with construction on the Crane to Bloomington corridor, known as Section 4, said Cher Elliott, spokeswoman for INDOT's Vincennes District.
The highway I-69 route roughly parallels Indiana 57 northeast from I-64 to U.S. 50 at Washington, where it bypasses the town to the east and extends north to U.S. 231 and Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center and then to Bloomington, Ind.
The federal "record of decision" is necessary to use federal funds on the Section 4 stretch, which will be paid for with state gasoline tax and federal transportation funds, Elliott said. The estimated cost is $384 million ...
Section 2, which runs roughly from Interstate 64 north to just past Indiana 64 near Oakland City, will be half finished by late November, she said. Section 3, which ends at Crane, is halfway done.
Both sections are expected to open to traffic by December 2012. The fourth section, from Crane to Bloomington, is expected to open to traffic in 2014 ...
However, progress on the segment nearest Bloomington remains on hold pending the resolution of a dispute with the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization. The group is responsible, by federal law, for coordinating transportation projects in its area. However, it did not include the I-69 extension in an updated local transportation plan approved in May.
In order to receive federal funds, all road-building projects must be included in the transportation plans of any such organization through which the roads would pass, in addition to regional and state plans.
Indiana Transportation Commissioner Michael Cline has said he will not give the plan the state approval it needs to make it official.
Sarvis said the state can continue planning on the disputed I-69 segment under the authority of the existing transportation plan but construction needs an updated, approved plan.
No timeline has been set to complete the last sections of I-69 which follow the route of Indiana 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis."
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on September 04, 2011, 08:20:08 PM
I looked at Rand McNally's latest in Wal Mart and still see no showing of progress of freeways between Evansville and Indy.  I am glad to hear that it is happening.  Too bad they can't build it inside the 465 loop like originally planned, it would be interesting to see those ghost ramps to be used at the North- East end of the I-65 and I-70 con-currency that were abandoned.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on September 04, 2011, 08:56:02 PM
I looked at Rand McNally's latest in Wal Mart and still see no showing of progress of freeways between Evansville and Indy.  I am glad to hear that it is happening.  Too bad they can't build it inside the 465 loop like originally planned, it would be interesting to see those ghost ramps to be used at the North- East end of the I-65 and I-70 con-currency that were abandoned.

Every example I can think of where an interchange with ghost ramps had the missing freeway built, the interchange in question was partially or entirely redesigned anyway.  Even if I-69 were built through central Indianapolis, I think it's far more likely the whole downtown freeway system would be reconfigured, rather than simply hooking up to the stubs and building out the original design.  After all, those highways were designed to handle projected traffic up to something like 1980 at best.  Channeling even more traffic through downtown without a complete redesign would be unthinkable for most planners.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 04, 2011, 09:21:45 PM
I looked at Rand McNally's latest in Wal Mart and still see no showing of progress of freeways between Evansville and Indy.  I am glad to hear that it is happening.  Too bad they can't build it inside the 465 loop like originally planned, it would be interesting to see those ghost ramps to be used at the North- East end of the I-65 and I-70 con-currency that were abandoned.

The new Indiana highway map does have the I-69 corridor marked as "under construction" all the way to US 231 at Crane and has the new exits along the route marked.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Duke87 on September 05, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
Every example I can think of where an interchange with ghost ramps had the missing freeway built, the interchange in question was partially or entirely redesigned anyway.

Counterexample: I-84/CT 9.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on September 06, 2011, 01:33:03 AM
Every example I can think of where an interchange with ghost ramps had the missing freeway built, the interchange in question was partially or entirely redesigned anyway.

Counterexample: I-84/CT 9.

How long between initial construction and completion?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on September 06, 2011, 09:53:33 PM
Every example I can think of where an interchange with ghost ramps had the missing freeway built, the interchange in question was partially or entirely redesigned anyway.

Counterexample: I-84/CT 9.
CT 9 was never fully completed, but the overpasses were already in place, making a redesign very unlikely if it were. This happened at "PA 90" (Betsy Ross Bridge) and I-95, where the only change from the original design is that the overpasses weren't built across I-95 to connect NJ 90 to the local Philly street grid - but the ramps are identical.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on September 06, 2011, 10:16:05 PM
I looked at Rand McNally's latest in Wal Mart and still see no showing of progress of freeways between Evansville and Indy.  I am glad to hear that it is happening.  Too bad they can't build it inside the 465 loop like originally planned, it would be interesting to see those ghost ramps to be used at the North- East end of the I-65 and I-70 con-currency that were abandoned.

There's not some idle plans for an at grade version beginning at the northern I-65/I-70 interchange?  It appears from Google Earth some of the bridges over the unbuilt ramps have seen some significant work when such bridges would have been removed elsewhere (as happens with most bridges over abandoned railroads).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on September 09, 2011, 08:26:07 AM
FHWA has approved Section 4 from Crane to Bloomington.  Drama between INDOT and Bloomingtom MPO still has to play out:
http://www.chron.com/news/article/Federal-agency-approves-new-S-Ind-I-69-section-2162464.php

Quote
Federal officials have approved construction plans for a hotly debated section of the Interstate 69 extension in southern Indiana.
State officials say the Federal Highway Administration on Thursday endorsed the 27-mile stretch proposed for the highway from near the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to just south of Bloomington.
The state highway department expects construction to start on that section by year's end, but that is being complicated by a Bloomington area transportation board's decision to not support the route because of environmental and quality of life concerns.
The board is scheduled to discuss the plan Friday afternoon, although The Herald-Times reports Bloomington Mayor Mark Kruzan (kroo-ZAN') is asking members to postpone a vote until November so that the state can answer questions about the project.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on September 09, 2011, 11:42:09 AM
Might be shallow but wouldn't it be sweet to see INDOT take all the exits and entrances out in the Bloomington area. They don't want it so they get no exits.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: InterstateNG on September 09, 2011, 09:06:12 PM
Why should through traffic be punished with 10 miles without services due to the actions of a vocal minority?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on September 09, 2011, 09:16:09 PM
Put up Service plazas.................that would make em mad. Pump the raw sewage right into their creeks or something.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on September 10, 2011, 01:25:09 AM
It would be even funnier if we dropped a nuke on Bloomington without warning.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on September 10, 2011, 09:02:39 AM
No they haven't gotten that level of bad people yet. Bloomington never wanted I-69 so it should recieve nothing from it's building. INDOT didn't start this as they to build this road to help Bloomington and sw Indiana. I would almost say reroute away from Bloomington but the trains already down the tracks.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: InterstateNG on September 10, 2011, 10:42:24 AM
Bloomington never wanted the freeway to barrel through their city.  I think that's reasonable.

The opposition currently are the usual types, but they are the minority.  If you wish to heed their lamentations by taking out exits that already exist, screwing through traffic and traffic destined for the university, be my guest, but I would prefer solutions that aren't a spiteful, childish waste of resources.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 10, 2011, 11:13:11 AM
The highway doesn't go through the city, it goes around it, even the interstate. Within the Bloomington city limits themselves, I wouldn't expect much work to be done except for building the bridges on the exisiting crossings of 37 and keeping the exits themselves. Back when the 37 bypass was built that was mostly country, the fact there there is now housing developments and strip malls along 37 (especially at 3rd Street) is evidently because B-Town isn't as committed to combating sprawl as they are to stopping highways. They hate building interstates through farmland and forest but have no problem with building strip malls and housing developments there? Though in the spirit of what's been said here so far, keep the routing and keep the exisiting interchanges, but build tollbooths at each of the exit ramps, and please don't nuke it (I'd hate to see Brown County get nuclear radiation.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on September 10, 2011, 10:37:26 PM
I think most people have gotten their fill of the NIMBY's in Bloomington and Monoroe County. I know in Louisville River Fields will have to enter a Witness Protection Program.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 12, 2011, 05:54:24 PM
Just looked at the Record of Decision on Section 4, I-69 is slated to end at SR 37 at a stop light and not as an interchange, at least initally. The ROW for the interchange will be obtained and the space cleared out, but they aren't planning on building the exit until they start working on Section 5, whenever that would be.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on September 12, 2011, 06:54:54 PM
Just looked at the Record of Decision on Section 4, I-69 is slated to end at SR 37 at a stop light and not as an interchange, at least initally. The ROW for the interchange will be obtained and the space cleared out, but they aren't planning on building the exit until they start working on Section 5, whenever that would be.

Will the intersection geometry favor through traffic on SR 37, or will it favor through traffic for I-69 ( / future I-69)?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Stephane Dumas on September 12, 2011, 07:18:25 PM

Will the intersection geometry favor through traffic on SR 37, or will it favor through traffic for I-69 ( / future I-69)?

I guess INDOT might favor through traffic for I-69 and by curiosity, someone posted the proposed future interchange on OpenStreetmap
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.11085,-86.55935&z=15&t=K&marker0=39.16222%2C-86.52917%2CBloomington%2C%20Indiana

Wouldn't be ironic to see years later, some of those NIMBYs seeing the light and enjoy driving on I-69? ;)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on September 12, 2011, 07:19:47 PM
Why should through traffic be punished with 10 miles without services due to the actions of a vocal minority?

10 miles without services is a hardship or punishment?  :-D :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 12, 2011, 10:46:21 PM
Through traffic on I-69 will be favored with the final interchange, as traffic going south that way will have to exit off of I-69 to continue on SR 37 south. Traffic going north on 37 will go through a loop to head south on I-69 and northbound traffic will flow straight into I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on September 13, 2011, 07:53:00 PM
Just looked at the Record of Decision on Section 4, I-69 is slated to end at SR 37 at a stop light and not as an interchange, at least initally. The ROW for the interchange will be obtained and the space cleared out, but they aren't planning on building the exit until they start working on Section 5, whenever that would be.
Environmental surveying for Section 5 is scheduled to begin on September 19; it will be conducted along SR 37 all the way to SR 39 in Morgan County (article has a photo of the Tapp Road/SR 37 intersection):
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-sending-surveyors-section-5-i69-corridor-20364/

Maybe INDOT is sending a message to Bloomington/Monroe County ...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 09, 2011, 09:37:45 AM
Below is a link to an interesting article about the battle between Bloominington MPO and INDOT:
Feds' answers to I-69 questions show local MPO, state both have power, needs (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=62072)

Here is a photo of I-69 a mile south of SR 58 in Daviess County taken on September 30, 2011:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/I/I69-DaviessCounty.jpg)

Looking east on I-69 from US 231 near Crane:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/I/I69--US231.jpg)

US 231 is being straightened at the new I-69 interchange:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/I/I69--US231-2.jpg)


Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on October 09, 2011, 12:11:38 PM
Below is a link to an interesting article about the battle between Bloominington MPO and INDOT:
Feds' answers to I-69 questions show local MPO, state both have power, needs (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=62072)

[Somewhat related side rant] Maybe some good will come out of this conflict, and Indiana's Congressmen will get MPO's stripped of some of their powers so the state DOTs can get back to doing the job right.  Many MPOs such as the one for Bloomington only seem good for messing things up anymore.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 14, 2011, 07:57:49 PM
Indiana Economic Digest - INDOT to Bloomington: No I-69, no road funding (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=62166)

“INDOT expects that construction of I-69 sections 4 and 5 will be included in the BMCMPO’s TIP. If I-69 is not included in the TIP, the current TIP will expire and funds for federal transportation projects in the BMCMPO’s planning area will be cut off until the impasse ends. INDOT does not expect, and is not planning for, a scenario in which I-69 is omitted from the BMCMPO’s TIP.”


Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 23, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
Link to current INDOT I-69 contracts (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=213182639241284197299.00049e718f32b3c69149c&ie=UTF8&ll=38.546017,-87.192993&spn=1.031094,1.757813&z=9&source=embed). The next contract northeast from US 231 is scheduled to be let in November, and the one taking I-69 up to the Monroe County line (SR 445) is scheduled for December. Beyond that, what happens with the Bloomington MPO decides whether or not it will connect to SR 37. INDOT says that Federal and state funding to transit systems in Bloomington will be withheld in addition to the road funding if I-69 is not added to the TIP.

Recent photos: US 231 being straightened and soil stabilized at I-69 interchange (10/22):
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/US231-I-69.jpg)

SR 58 bridge over I-69 (10/22):
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/SR58-I-69.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Brandon on October 23, 2011, 11:24:57 PM
Should've just bypassed Bloomington using the Terre Haute route.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on October 23, 2011, 11:32:24 PM
Should've just bypassed Bloomington using the Terre Haute route.

That's a bit of a drastic bypass.  Might be easier (particularly considering work already done) to bypass the county(s) covered by this stubborn MPO.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on October 23, 2011, 11:44:43 PM
Should've just bypassed Bloomington using the Terre Haute route.

Which would have done nothing for the areas that will benefit from the new alignment.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 24, 2011, 07:21:36 AM
Exactly. Also, that particular I-69 route was partially selected so people from around the state can safely and efficiently travel to IU. Whether or not you like Bloomington, that is where the largest university in the state is located. If that weren't the case, perhaps the I-70/US 41 route may have worked, but it still would have been sub-optimal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rawmustard on October 24, 2011, 09:15:52 AM
SR 58 bridge over I-69 (10/22):
(snip image)

They've made significant progress since I passed through here September 4 (pilings were just starting to be driven)! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 24, 2011, 06:11:41 PM
Exactly. Also, that particular I-69 route was partially selected so people from around the state can safely and efficiently travel to IU. Whether or not you like Bloomington, that is where the largest university in the state is located. If that weren't the case, perhaps the I-70/US 41 route may have worked, but it still would have been sub-optimal.
And because that new terrain routing is the whole reason this I-69 thing snowballed into the monstrous insult to numbering convention it will become.  That was the original dream in Evansville, wasn't it? A freeway to Indy.
Gotta wonder if we'd even be talking about I-69 today if Evansville didn't get hosed by the routing of I-64.

Well at least we'll finally get an interstate connection between Houston and points northwest out of it.  That Houston - Shreveport segment in conjunction with I-49 to Texarkana should've been in the orignal plan, thus creating a logical route between Chicago and Houston, two of our biggest cities.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on October 24, 2011, 06:59:55 PM
Chicago and Houston, two of our biggest cities.

Third and fourth largest today.  In the late 50s, probably second and unranked.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 24, 2011, 07:49:01 PM
I-69 will be a long diagonal route.  Almost all diagonal interstates violate the numbering convention for much of their length.

As far as Evansville getting hosed by the I-64 routing, they really didn't get hosed.  The original routing though Vincennes would had hosed Evansville.  It got moved to its current location within 12 miles of the city, at least partially to provide better access to Evansville. However, it is true that Evansville did indeed feel "hosed" by the lack of a direct freeway connection to Indianapolis.

The four-laning of US 41 north to I-70 in the 1970's was an earlier attempt to alleviate that situation.  It was billed as an all four-lane route between Evansville and Indianapolis.  Governor Bowen said as much when he cut the ribbon on the last section of 41 to be four-laned (Shelburn bypass in 1975, as I recall).  And it was and is a four-lane route, but it is not as direct as the I-69 route will be and not all freeway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: exit322 on October 25, 2011, 01:44:20 PM
Chicago and Houston, two of our biggest cities.

Third and fourth largest today.  In the late 50s, probably second and unranked.

2 and 14.  But yeah, Houston's exploded.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on October 26, 2011, 12:56:02 PM
At yesterday's I-69 ceremony in Kentucky, INDOT officials hinted that they may use the "Kentucky model" to try and get an early I-69 designation for the State Road 37 segment of Sections 5 and 6 from Bloomington to Indianapolis:
http://www.carmitimes.com/area_news/x493114659/First-I-69-section-opens-in-Kentucky

Quote
Members of the Indiana Department of Transportation Interstate 69 project team joined Kentucky transportation officials Tuesday to celebrate and learn more about their successful efforts to extend the interstate highway through Kentucky.
I-69 signage is now being installed along 55 miles of Interstate 24 and the Wendell Ford/Western Kentucky Parkway, which is being upgraded to interstate standards.
"Indiana congratulates Kentucky on receiving federal approval to upgrade some of their existing parkways for I-69," said Samuel Sarvis, Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) deputy commissioner for major program management. "Kentucky's efforts show Indiana ways the existing State Road 37 might be transformed into I-69 Sections 5 and 6."
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on October 26, 2011, 01:23:40 PM
Methinks somebody doesn't understand that Kentucky's parkways are full freeways...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: agentsteel53 on October 26, 2011, 01:26:29 PM
Methinks somebody doesn't understand that Kentucky's parkways are full freeways...

were they already interstate standard?  I had thought some had been substandard, and therefore the Indiana DOT commissioner did have a point.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: TheStranger on October 26, 2011, 02:25:02 PM
Methinks somebody doesn't understand that Kentucky's parkways are full freeways...

were they already interstate standard?  I had thought some had been substandard, and therefore the Indiana DOT commissioner did have a point.

IIRC some of the parkways (but not all) have been upgraded, but in any case all of them are limited access (unlike SR 37 in Indiana, excepting the section along I-465 and the Bloomington bypass).

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on October 26, 2011, 02:39:21 PM
Methinks somebody doesn't understand that Kentucky's parkways are full freeways...
were they already interstate standard?  I had thought some had been substandard, and therefore the Indiana DOT commissioner did have a point.
IIRC some of the parkways (but not all) have been upgraded, but in any case all of them are limited access (unlike SR 37 in Indiana, excepting the section along I-465 and the Bloomington bypass).
Given the current tension between INDOT and the Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO, maybe the Bloomington bypass was precisely his point!  :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on October 26, 2011, 04:17:26 PM
were they already interstate standard?  I had thought some had been substandard, and therefore the Indiana DOT commissioner did have a point.

The I-69 AASHTO application posted elsewhere spells out pretty nicely what the deficiencies are, what will have to be corrected, and what has been granted an exception.

But any way you slice it, even without any upgrades, the Kentucky parkways are closer to modern interstate standards than I-70 between New Stanton and Washington.  :bigass: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 26, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
Given the current tension between INDOT and the Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO, maybe the Bloomington bypass was precisely his point! 

That would be poetic justice, but maybe only a mile in Bloomington might qualify as freeway thanks to the Vernal Pike traffic light. Indiana does plan to upgrade SR 37 where it can in the next few years, though. See Martinsville residents may not see I-69 work for 4 years, INDOT official says (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=61811&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=235&S=1). So maybe he is suggesting each section get the I-69 designation when completed.

Personally, I'd like to see I-164 become I-69 ASAP.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on October 26, 2011, 08:05:40 PM
Given the current tension between INDOT and the Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO, maybe the Bloomington bypass was precisely his point! 

That would be poetic justice, but maybe only a mile in Bloomington might qualify as freeway thanks to the Vernal Pike traffic light. Indiana does plan to upgrade SR 37 where it can in the next few years, though. See Martinsville residents may not see I-69 work for 4 years, INDOT official says (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=61811&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=235&S=1). So maybe he is suggesting each section get the I-69 designation when completed.

Personally, I'd like to see I-164 become I-69 ASAP.

I don't want to see I-164 I-181'd just yet...  X-(

At least I clinched it in May and likely will drive it again next weekend.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 27, 2011, 03:38:21 PM
This is significant news regarding I-69 to Bloomington: "Local officials can’t stop construction of Interstate 69 to Ind. 37 in Monroe County, but they can influence how the interstate looks as it turns north and heads toward Indianapolis..."

See Bloomington could block federal funds for local leg of I-69 but to no avail (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=62344)

A better article is here:
UPDATE: Feds say state can build debated stretch of I-69 (http://www.ibj.com/feds-state-can-build-debated-stretch-of-i69/PARAMS/article/30384) (IBJ)

"Bob Tally, Indiana division administrator of the Federal Highway Administration, told planning committee members on Wednesday that the [MPO] could not stop the state from building the highway section because the federal agency already has approved that segment..."
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 27, 2011, 03:51:23 PM
Two recent I-69 editorials from southern Indiana newspapers:

From Bloomington:
EDITORIAL: Threat to local funding is real over I-69/Bloomington impasse (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&subsectionID=206&articleID=62261)

From Evansville:
EDITORIAL: Next governor likely to complete Interstate 69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/oct/25/next-governor-likely-to-complete-interstate-69/)

The takeaway I see is that attitudes may have been adjusted slightly in Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on October 28, 2011, 07:48:28 AM
I am a bit confused by this. I can see why Bloomington officials would be opposed to I-69 (added traffic), but wouldn't those issues have been worked out during the EIS phase? Was there plenty of citizen input? Did INDOT publicize the meetings well enough so that people would have the chance to attend?

I guess what I am saying is that...wouldn't this also be an opportunity to relieve some of the traffic problems along IN 37 in Bloomington?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 28, 2011, 09:32:29 AM
The disagreement is very old. These are the people that first did not want any form of I-69 in southern Indiana, and then proposed an I-70/US 41 route to avoid the new terrain routing through Bloomington when it was clear I-69 would be built. To say this issue has been contentious around Bloomington for many, many years would be an understatement. Rather than accepting the selected 2003 routing, this group has instead embarked on an obstuctionist strategy.

So logically, it would make a lot of sense - existing SR 37 with stoplights and cross traffic would be faster and safer, the hilly and curvy roads like SR 45 would be relegated to secondary status, and the largest university in the state would become more accessible to millions more citizens. None of that matters to them.

It should be noted that areas southwest of Bloomington are generally strong supporters of I-69.

Now that INDOT can build I-69 to SR 37 and can/will withhold all Federal money for roads and transit, the MPO has a big decision to make on November 4. Will they back down or continue? If they continue, INDOT cannot upgrade current SR 37 through Bloomington. It would be a pretty high price for the Bloomington MPO to continue these tactics given these two facts, but you just never know.

This week INDOT accepted bids on the next four miles past US 231 (looks like Crider & Crider is low bidder) so 72 miles of continuous interstate construction will be underway by early spring. By the end of 2011, at least 10 additional miles to SR 445 should be under contract.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 28, 2011, 10:34:05 AM
Having family in Bloomington. I would say a good sized portion of that town wants I-69. Problem is the opposition is very connected polictically and will hurt Bloomington in the long run.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 03, 2011, 06:48:24 PM
Having family in Bloomington. I would say a good sized portion of that town wants I-69. Problem is the opposition is very connected polictically and will hurt Bloomington in the long run.

Yes, that is correct.

Below are some interesting articles that show the split and general discord there. First, the background is a serious accident that critically injured four people on US 231 in the I-69 construction zone (near where previously posted picture was taken). Even though one driver passed in a no passing zone causing the accident, the anti-I-69 people called for construction to stop. Citing recent wrecks, I-69 foes demand construction be stopped (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=181&ArticleID=62454) (from Herald Times). You can't read articles directly from the H-T web site without subscribing for $$$, but they do allow anyone to read comments on the story (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMS8xMS8wMy9uZXdzLnFwLTcyNzUxOTkuc3Rv).

Second, there are I-69 comments from an H-T editorial (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMS8xMS8wMy9kaWdpdGFsY2l0eS5xcC0yNjg5NzUzLnN0bw==) today that are quite lively. Pretty much, half of Monroe County has similar opinions of the activists that the majority of Indiana has about them.

To help everyone understand the attitude of the MPO, they demanded the FHWA and INDOT answer questions published in the H-T (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/09/22/0921_MPOqueries.pdf).

Finally, Governor Daniels made his plea to the MPO earlier this week: Daniels Pushes For I-69 Support In Bloomington (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/daniels-pushes-i69-support-bloomington-22657/) (from Indiana Public Media).

Tomorrow is the long awaited MPO meeting. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 03, 2011, 06:57:56 PM
With the recent award of a four mile section going east and north from US 231 (INDOT October 26, 2011 Design Build Letting (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2011/oct26/oct26.htm)), 72 miles of I-69 are now under construction in southern Indiana. To put that in perspective, that is the same length as I-69 from the Indiana-Michigan line to I-96 in Lansing.

Contract awarded for building Crane-to-Bloomington section of I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/nov/03/no-headline---ev_i69/) (from Evansville Courier Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on November 07, 2011, 11:33:40 AM
Yikes....Looks like the fight in Bloomington is not going to be over soon....post about the Friday meeting there.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/nov/04/no-headline---ev_i-69bloomington/
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: JREwing78 on November 07, 2011, 07:20:24 PM
*sigh* Looks like the Bloomington-Monroe MPO and INDOT are guaranteeing the worst-case scenario - interstate traffic clogging up SR 37 (posted as Temp I-69) for decades.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on November 08, 2011, 06:33:44 AM
And that's exactly what Bloomington wants.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 08, 2011, 07:08:33 AM
That certainly is what a large vocal group of people there want. Today is election day so if these same group of rabidly anti-I69 activists get re-elected, we can safely say the majority of Bloomington is against I-69. One thing that makes me wonder if this group is a minority is that the Herald Times article comments about I-69 are invariably rated negatively for anti-I-69 comments and positive for pro-I-69 ones. So among the H-T readers, unscientifically, it seems more favor the road than oppose it.

BTW, one thing that you can say is that the activists are organized. That group of "citizens" that attended the meeting on November 4 did not just happen to attend. See http://www.carri69.org/ (http://www.carri69.org/). AFAIK, there are no organized pro-I-69 groups there.

Hopefully INDOT follows through and pulls all state and federal transportation funding if I-69 is not added to the TIP. A town like Bloomington depends on buses, so that would hurt.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: purdueboiler on November 08, 2011, 10:00:06 AM
I don't get what the big dispute is about with these people.  I-69 is going to be built up to and connecting to SR 37 regardless.  From that point on the footprint of the interstate is already built on by SR 37.  What exactly are these people trying to stop???  Are a few interchanges going to really destroy the environment within Bloomington?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on November 08, 2011, 10:08:30 AM
Checked out the end at IN-68 yesterday, permanent signage is now in place along the spur of Interstate 69 northbound (the exit numbers are blank). It appears that the pavement is done leading north and that it is just a matter of time before the road gets extended northward. I have photos and will post some later (posted one (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150389531137948&set=a.10150201857597948.328078.181045197947&type=1&theater) on the AARoads on Facebook page yesterday).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on November 08, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
1) They are anti-freeway to begin with.

2) They would still rather prefer I-69 bypass Bloomington via US 41/I-70 through Vincennes/Terre Haute.

3) They don't respond too well to what they see as blackmail on InDOT's part.

4) They're totally out of their mind. (And yes, I'm left of center, but I don't agree with them at all.)


Anthony
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Checked out the end at IN-68 yesterday, permanent signage is now in place along the spur of Interstate 69 northbound (the exit numbers are blank). It appears that the pavement is done leading north and that it is just a matter of time before the road gets extended northward. I have photos and will post some later (posted one (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150389531137948&set=a.10150201857597948.328078.181045197947&type=1&theater) on the AARoads on Facebook page yesterday).

Orginally, when that spur opened, it was signed as "Exit 22" which continued the I-164 mileage system, with I-64 being Exit 21. Soon after they removed it, possibly because a) Since I-69 will be joining I-164 around the Green River Road area and not at the 0 milemarker at US 41, the exits will be different anyway (only by about a number or two) and b) There is an Exit 22 on I-69 in Anderson, Indiana, so for a brief time there were actually two Exit 22s on the same highway but in different parts of the state. I'm guessing the official reason is more like with a, but anyhow, once the first three sections open up, a numbering system will have to be in place. As for Bloomington....oh boy.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on November 08, 2011, 12:10:35 PM
There are only a limited number of at-grade intersections left along SR 37 at Bloomington anyway.  If INDOT connects I-69 to SR 37 from the south using state funds and then starts to gradually upgrade SR 37 to I-69 from the north, then Bloomington could end up being Indiana's version of Breezewood, PA.  Imagine the queues at those traffic lights in about 10 years, hahaha.   Actually, I suspect that something will be worked out on I-69 in the Bloomington area at some point.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on November 08, 2011, 09:44:59 PM
Some of the photos shot yesterday (11-07) at the Interstate 69 current end at SR 68. [click for larger]

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068_02.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068_02.jpg)

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068_03.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-069_nb_app_in-068_03.jpg)

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069_02.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/in-068_at_i-069_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 09, 2011, 06:53:06 AM
I don't get what the big dispute is about with these people.  I-69 is going to be built up to and connecting to SR 37 regardless.  From that point on the footprint of the interstate is already built on by SR 37.  What exactly are these people trying to stop???  Are a few interchanges going to really destroy the environment within Bloomington?

Don't look for any logic there. They have it all bass ackwards because once section 4 to SR 37 is built, the war will have been lost for them. INDOT has all approvals to build this part, but nonetheless, they are hellbent on winning the battle within their juridiction. The definition of winning is being as obstructionist to INDOT as possible. You would think that overpasses and interchanges on road that already exists would be something they want, but because INDOT wants that, they don't.

 I haven't checked election results in Bloomington, but I think some of the key people like Andy Ruff were doing well early.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on November 09, 2011, 07:34:55 AM
I don't get what the big dispute is about with these people.  I-69 is going to be built up to and connecting to SR 37 regardless.  From that point on the footprint of the interstate is already built on by SR 37.  What exactly are these people trying to stop???  Are a few interchanges going to really destroy the environment within Bloomington?

I don't quite understand it either, but I think their concerns are increased traffic due to I-69 and the transport of hazardous cargo through Bloomington. The former would probably be alleviated by building the interstate, and the latter happens all of the time across the country.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 14, 2011, 05:02:39 PM
Editorial from the Evansville Courier Press on the recent antics of the Bloomington anti-I-69 people:
EDITORIAL: I-69 opponents' views on accidents, extortion are outrageous (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/nov/13/i-69-opponents-views-on-accidents-extortion-are/)

In the elections in Bloomington last week, after a major snafu counting votes, the same people were re-elected to office so expect more of the same.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 15, 2011, 05:31:04 PM
The new INDOT 18 Months Construction Letting List (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/lettings/18MonthsConstLettingDetailsMM_Ext.pdf) was posted today and finally includes all the sections closing the gap from US 231 to SR 37. The contracts are scheduled to be let between 12/2011 and 12/2012. Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on November 15, 2011, 05:41:08 PM
The contracts are scheduled to be let between 12/2011 and 12/2012. Fingers crossed.
If certain provisions in Senate transportation bill survive, Bloomington/Monroe County MPO may cease to exist. Double fingers crossed.  :happy:
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/11/14/senate-bill-may-weaken-smaller-metros-empower-state-dots/
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on November 15, 2011, 06:28:28 PM
^ Probably one of those too good to pass provisions similar to bumping the interstate speed limits in Illinois or Ohio up to 70.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 18, 2011, 08:06:16 AM
Greene County is adjacent to Monroe County, where Bloomington is. Here is a recent editorial from their newspaper entitled "It's time for I-69 naysayers to let it go" (http://gcdailyworld.com/blogs/nickschneider/entry/44647/), which shows that popularity for the new road starts just south and west of Bloomington - where there are no safe or wide roads to anywhere.

North of Monroe County (Morgan and Marion Counties), there is a mix of pro and anti-I-69 sentiment. That is normal, but they the big difference is that they don't have the radical and obstructionist element that Bloomington has.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 18, 2011, 10:49:08 AM
Agree mukade as I read that article yesterday. Part of me wants to put GPS transmitters on all the I-69 opponents and see where they are driving in a few years when I-69 is done.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 18, 2011, 08:18:57 PM
Agree mukade as I read that article yesterday. Part of me wants to put GPS transmitters on all the I-69 opponents and see where they are driving in a few years when I-69 is done.

An excellent point, but you don't need to wait. Look at article "24 Arrested After Statehouse Vandalized" (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/4570146/detail.html). Seeing these people who protested/vandalized were from Michigan, Kentucky, Missouri, etc., how did they get to Indy? We all know the hypocrites drove the Interstates.

Anyway, that incident set the tone for the way INDOT would push forward. The next major protest would result in felony charges against two protesters/vandals under the Indiana Corrupt Business Influence Act (which is like RICO). If that would not have happened, I doubt that much of I-69 would be under construction today.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 18, 2011, 08:52:27 PM
"Chestwood, Ky." should be "Crestwood," which is a bedroom community for Loserville. The other Kentuckians were from Loserville. Those same four assholes are probably now members of River Fields and 8664.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 19, 2011, 12:19:15 PM
River Fields and 8664 aren't  those definations for arseholes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on November 19, 2011, 07:17:22 PM
"Chestwood, Ky." should be "Crestwood," which is a bedroom community for Loserville. The other Kentuckians were from Loserville. Those same four assholes are probably now members of River Fields and 8664.

And they probably will be imported to NOLA to bring down the I-10 Claiborne Elevated, too.

Anthony
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tidecat on November 27, 2011, 07:27:44 PM
River Fields and 8664 are opposed to each other; River Fields doesn't want the I-265 bridge around the East End of Louisville, 8864 does.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 28, 2011, 10:36:38 AM
And I'm opposed to both of them!  :clap:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on December 06, 2011, 09:47:31 PM
New Info.......

http://gcdailyworld.com/story/1791738.html
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 27, 2011, 10:49:18 PM
Editorial from Evansville:

EDITORIAL: Interstate 69 foes face an equally determined Daniels (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/dec/27/interstate-69-foes-face-an-equally-determined/)

Also, bids were taken for another section of I-69 before Christmas. I assume the contract award for the ~$85M project will be announced later this week.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on December 29, 2011, 09:12:53 AM
Indiana has 1.5 to 2.0 Billion in the bank (recently "found" a extra 300 million). So money is not a problem for them. Daniels has four aces in his hand and the Road Nutties have a pair of 2's. It's going to get built and I predict when it's built that suddenly Bloomington will fall in love with it. Haven't seen many rural towns say they don't like having Interstate road access.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 30, 2011, 03:44:44 PM
One thing of interest is that the KappaMap 2012 road atlas (formerly Universal, I think) shows I-69 as complete from SR 68 north to US 231 at Crane. It shows it under construction from US 231 north to Indy. I guess this is the counterbalance to Rand McNally's 2012 road atlas - one shows too much progress and one too little. Accuracy would be nice.

The Kentucky section that is signed is not shown in the KappaMap atlas, BTW.

So to wrap up 2011, Indiana has 72 continuous miles of new terrain I-69 from SR 68 north to 4.5 miles east of US 231 are under contract. A contract for what appears to be around 6 miles from SR 45 to SR 54 to a connector with SR 445 looks to be awarded to Kolb Grading out of Missouri shortly. There will be a gap of approximately 6 miles between the 72 mile section and this one. Next year should have the remaining sections from US 231 to SR 37 in Bloomington under construction. How a short part of that controversial stretch near SR 37 will be funded is not finalized thanks to the Bloomingtom MPO, but the state has the money in any event.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Stephane Dumas on December 30, 2011, 03:53:51 PM
Indiana has 1.5 to 2.0 Billion in the bank (recently "found" a extra 300 million). So money is not a problem for them. Daniels has four aces in his hand and the Road Nutties have a pair of 2's. It's going to get built and I predict when it's built that suddenly Bloomington will fall in love with it. Haven't seen many rural towns say they don't like having Interstate road access.

I taught of the same thing, some NIMBY might found the light and fell in love with I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on December 30, 2011, 06:47:52 PM
One thing of interest is that the KappaMap 2012 road atlas (formerly Universal, I think) shows I-69 as complete from SR 68 north to US 231 at Crane. It shows it under construction from US 231 north to Indy. I guess this is the counterbalance to Rand McNally's 2012 road atlas - one shows too much progress and one too little. Accuracy would be nice.

Well, at least the official Indiana highway map has it correctly that the highway is under construction from SR 68 to Crane, but then again I would hope that they would be accurate. As for Bloomington, I think what will happen with those in town once the completion of the interstate is over is that the city of Bloomington won't change too much, will still be known for its atmosphere and will still attract people to its great university, interstate or not. Good city government and planners will ensue that the city remains as it is with or without the interstate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 06, 2012, 08:39:01 PM
Another I-69 contract award for $74M:

INDOT awards contract for another section of I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/jan/06/no-headline---ev_i-69/) (from Evansville Courier Press)

and

OFFICIAL TABULATION OF BIDS RECEIVED (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2011/dec21/OFFICIAL%20122111.pdf) (from INDOT)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on January 09, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
I noticed on Bing Maps that the arial view of the I-69 corridor has been updated in southwestern Indiana...pretty cool

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=38.293356515280294~-87.39932037197641&lvl=13&dir=0&sty=h&form=LMLTSN
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on January 09, 2012, 10:17:02 AM
^ Wow that shows a lot more of it under construction. It will be nice to see it updated to show the progress to Crane.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 09, 2012, 09:03:00 PM
It is funny how so much of I-69 is shown, but older construction such as parts of SR 25, US 31 South Bend, and US 31 Kokomo aren't. US 24 construction is over a year old.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 13, 2012, 06:29:04 PM
Apparently INDOT and FHWA are fully fed up with the Bloomington MPO so they boycotted a meeting held by their I-69 subcommittee.

INDOT, FHWA Skip I-69 Subcommittee Meeting (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-fhwa-skip-i69-subcommittee-meeting-25569/) (from Indiana Public Media)

Adding a link to the the story comments in the Bloomington Herald Times for this subject. It is always a lively and interesting discussion although the same points seem to made over and over. One anti-I-69 poster insists (rationalizes) all funding for the entire road must be in place before the MPO can approve it.

MPO committee still seeking answers on I-69; decision may be delayed Comments (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wMS8xNC9uZXdzLm1wby1jb21taXR0ZWUtc3RpbGwtc2Vla2luZy1hbnN3ZXJzLWZyb20taW5kb3Qtb24taS02OS5zdG8=)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on January 14, 2012, 09:20:06 AM
Bloomington keeps this up they might not like what they get for a Interstate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mightyace on January 15, 2012, 05:53:46 PM
Some people just don't know when they're licked.

Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on January 15, 2012, 07:22:45 PM
It may take a few prominent Bloomington residents, or their kids, getting killed at stoplights on IN 37 on their way to or from Indy for them to realize the benefits of having an expressway linking their college town to the state's biggest city.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 15, 2012, 08:06:17 PM
There really is no logic there anymore. It has become an embarrassing personal battle for the MPO against INDOT. The local Bloomington paper does not display articles (many of which sound like they may be interesting), but oddly, they do display comments for articles. The top comment in this link (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMS8xMC8yMS9uZXdzLnFwLTM0MzQ5NTguc3Rv&start=139) is a very insightful one even though the the author has anti-I-69 point-of-view. It describes the way MPOs work in most cities, and how the Bloomington MPO does not act.

I think there might be a small split of opinion in the Bloomington MPO - the pure "no I-69 in Bloomington" crowd vs. the "we need to get local road improvements in exchange for a yes vote crowd". Nonetheless, it still comes down to always either postponing or voting "no" to putting I-69 in the TIP.

One thing I wondered was about the anti-I-69 people's talking points. They claim that unless the funding is in place for the entire project (i.e. to Indianapolis), INDOT cannot legally build any of the road. By that logic, the Ohio River Bridge also needs funding, I guess. Where did they come up with that idea? Is there any truth to it? If so, every state is violating that rule.


Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 17, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
For anyone interested in reading letters about I-69 exchanged between INDOT and the Bloomington MPO (and others) you can see them here (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-letters-mpo-indot-fhwa-released-25629/) (from Indiana Public Media).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on January 24, 2012, 12:02:21 PM
I-69: Are We There Yet? (http://gcdailyworld.com/story/1807665.html), an Indiana public television documentary, will air Thursday night (it will also be streamed live).  After the documentary is aired, some of the major players will answer questions from the viewing audience via phone, email, facebook and twitter.  Might be an opportunity to ask Martin and Tokarski some tough questions:

Quote
The joint radio and television news department of Indiana public broadcasting stations WFIU and WTIU is premiering a documentary on the history of I-69 on Thursday at 8 p.m.
The hour-long documentary will air simultaneously on WFIU Public Radio and WTIU Public Television.
I-69: Are We There Yet? offers a local, regional, and national perspective on Interstate 69, a highway whose history stretches more than 20 years, and the debates over which remain headline news.
To watch a brief preview of the documentary, visit indianapublicmedia.org/i69 .
"The idea for Interstate 69 as well as the first organized opposition to the road began in Indiana more than two decades ago," says Sara Wittmeyer, WFIU/WTIU News Bureau Chief. "Today the road remains one of the most contentious issues in the state. This documentary examines the complicated history from both perspectives."
Members of the media are invited to attend the premiere at the WFIU and WTIU studios.
Following the premiere of the documentary there will be a panel discussion featuring stakeholders on various sides of the issue.
Scheduled guests include:
* Richard Martin, Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization
* Ron Arnold, Daviess County Economic Development Corporation
* Thomas Tokarski, CARR co-founder.
The live panel will take questions from the radio and TV audiences by phone (Skype + 1-800-987-9848), email news@indianapublicmedia.org, and through social media sites Facebook (facebook.com/interstate69) and Twitter (@Inpubmedianews #i69).
The documentary will be made available for subsequent broadcast by NPR and PBS affiliates nationwide.
WFIU -- Public Radio from Indiana University -- broadcasts in Bloomington at 103.7 FM, with translators in Columbus at 100.7 FM, French Lick/West Baden at 101.7 FM, Greensburg at 98.9 FM, Kokomo at 106.1 FM, and Terre Haute at 95.1 FM.
All content can be streamed live online at wfiu.org. WFIU is an NPR member station offering local and national news as well as jazz and classical music.
WTIU is the PBS television station owned and operated by Indiana University and serves over 350,000 households in 29 counties in West and South Central Indiana. WTIU airs programming on four digital channels 24 hours a day, and produces local, regional and national programs.

Here's the two minute preview of the documentary. (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/special-features/i-69-are-we-there-yet/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on January 25, 2012, 02:57:17 PM
Any idea of what the final exit number for SR 68 will be?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 25, 2012, 08:15:54 PM
Any idea of what the final exit number for SR 68 will be?

Exit 21 is my guess. It is about 3 miles from US 41 to where I-69 will join current I-164. It is about 1.8 miles from I-164 to the Ohio River. Therefore, the difference is about 1 mile less on I-69 (future) than I-164. Considering that SR 68 was exit 22 on I-69 using I-164's numbering, that should make it 21 but it depends on how close SR 68 is to the mile marker, of course.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 25, 2012, 11:09:26 PM
Recent I-69 articles from Bloomington:
INDOT Updates MPO Technical Committee On I-69 (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-updates-mpo-technical-committee-i69-25975/) (Indiana Public Media)

Property Owners Say I-69 Is Forcing Them To Move Too Quickly (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/property-owners-i69-making-move-quickly-25947/) (Indiana Public Media)

INDOT pressing ahead with I-69 construction in Section 4 - COMMENTS (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wMS8yNS9uZXdzLmluZG90LXByZXNzaW5nLWFoZWFkLXdpdGgtaS02OS1jb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24taW4tc2VjdGlvbi00LnN0bw=http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wMS8yNS9uZXdzLmluZG90LXByZXNzaW5nLWFoZWFkLXdpdGgtaS02OS1jb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24taW4tc2VjdGlvbi00LnN0bw==) (Bloomington Herald Times)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 26, 2012, 07:19:25 AM
Below is a link to a rare full online article in the Herald-Times that you can see without a subscription. As background, Morgan County sits between Monroe County (Bloomington) and Indy. Despite a significant anti I-69 sentiment there over the years, they seemed to have settled on a much different approach than Bloomington's. From what I have read, the construction of I-69 in Martinsville may begin in 2014. This year's INDOT lettings include demolition of buildings there in preparation of the new highway.

Morgan County: A blue-ribbon partnership (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/01/26/news.575162.sto)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on January 26, 2012, 10:13:17 AM
If I recall, the flooding in 2008 down in Martinsville did INDOT a few favors and some of the buildings that were next to SR 37 were already ready for demolition. It would be interesting to see how Martinsville does approach the construction of the interstate thru town since I feel it will have a different feel than the rest of the interstate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on January 27, 2012, 07:32:45 PM
I-69: Are We There Yet? (http://gcdailyworld.com/story/1807665.html), an Indiana public television documentary, will air Thursday night (it will also be streamed live).  After the documentary is aired, some of the major players will answer questions from the viewing audience via phone, email, facebook and twitter.
Quote
Scheduled guests include:
* Richard Martin, Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization
* Ron Arnold, Daviess County Economic Development Corporation
* Thomas Tokarski, CARR co-founder.
In case you missed the live streaming last night and want some weekend viewing, the I-69: Are We There Yet? documentary may be seen here. (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/special-features/i-69-are-we-there-yet/)  The documentary itself is about one hour and Q & A with the panelists afterwards is about thirty minutes.  After seeing Martin in action, I can see why INDOT and FHWA skipped the last meeting.  X-(
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 27, 2012, 08:39:23 PM
The documentary, despite a slight bias toward Tom Tokarski (the main anti-I-69 activist), is informative and well done. The Q&A left a lot to be desired, IMO.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on January 28, 2012, 09:45:54 AM
I still say take all exits away from Bloomington. If they want to play tough then play tough with them. Take all exits away and put up sound barriers instead. Big 30 foot high concrete ugly sound barriers.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on January 28, 2012, 11:29:35 AM
I watched part of the documentary last night, and what was new to me was the discussion about the substntial cost savings applied to the roadway.  I think a more technical term for it is Value Engineering (VE to us engineers).  It sounds like liberal amounts of VE were applied.  Actuallly when Federal money is involved, a VE study is mandatory for projects that are over 25 million in cost.   
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 28, 2012, 10:38:34 PM
INDOT talked about using the thinner staged pavement methods to save money as they said. I thought this option was only possible if the HMA option were chosen. I believe every winning bid has specified the PCCP option. Anyway, there is a link here (http://www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf) that discusses the staged pavement proposal from Asphalt Indiana.

Another thing I think I heard from CARR was lamenting how thousands of acres of prime farmland would be consumed by the new road. Later a CARR person said Indiana was cutting corners by reducing the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet (or something like that). That seems like quite a contradiction. CARR also said Indiana is the only I-69 state going with a new terrain route. Besides the fact the fairly long SR 37 portion is not new terrain, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana do have significant new terrain routes. I am not sure about Texas. Kentucky's routing is mostly on existing roadways except around Henderson.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 29, 2012, 08:17:28 AM
An IBJ article, Daniels criticized for lopping costs on I-69 extension (http://www.ibj.com/daniels-criticized-for-lopping-costs-on-i69-extension/PARAMS/article/21228), also suggests that the corner cutting discussed as fact by CARR and other I-69 opponents in the documentary was if the staged asphalt pavement methods were used on I-69. The INDOT Contract Letting Information (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2011/dec21/dec21.htm) shows what which pavement option was selected in the awards, and I think all mainline contracts have been for concrete pavement.

The obfuscation created by the opponents is remarkable. The cost cutting is one, but the routing is another. The motivation for the new road always was a high speed direct route from Evansville to Indy. CARR and other opponents successfully changed the media discussion to the routing of I-69 in Indiana. The documentary also discusses this topic which is often lost in the emotional discussions still coming out of Bloomington.

Another issue of interest is that the Bloomington Herald Times has an article today suggesting the February MPO meeting has been canceled - adding I-69 back to the TIP was the main issue in that meeting. You have to think that the threat of the loss of transportation funding for Bloomington simply does not bother them.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on January 29, 2012, 08:54:41 AM
Hmmm. I get about 27 miles saved using the new I-69 (rough estimate of 91.5 miles from the SR 68 exit to SR 37 at Bloomington). Does this sound about right?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 29, 2012, 10:41:58 AM
Probably 22-28 miles less on the new terrain/SR 37 route over US 41/I-70. It is hard to be exact because the routing/distance of the Terre Haute bypass (more or less what turned out to be SR 641) is unknown and whether I-69 would have followed I-465 south leg, I-465 north leg, or I-70 through downtown is not known. In any event, the time savings from Evansville to Indy would be far greater than the 5-12 minute time savings the I-69 opposition uses.

I assume everyone agrees I-164 would be I-69 - so the south end for the comparison is the I-64/I-164 interchange and the north end is the existing I-465/I-69 interchange.

As far as costs go, the supposedly huge cost savings of the US 41/I-70 route don't take into account the widening of I-70 from Terre Haute to Indy which probably would (at least eventually) become necessary as I-69 should pick up some I-65 and I-57 traffic. Maybe even some I-55 traffic headed to Texas might use I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on January 29, 2012, 12:12:46 PM
For anyone interested in reading letters about I-69 exchanged between INDOT and the Bloomington MPO (and others) you can see them here (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-letters-mpo-indot-fhwa-released-25629/) (from Indiana Public Media).
The letters in the above link are an interesting read; they are contained in a separate thirteen-page reader.

First, the FHWA and INDOT have offered to to invite the Bloomington/Monroe County government(s) to be a "participating agency" in the environmental review of Section 5 of I-69 as that term is used in Section 6002 of SAFETEA-LU. (http://nepa.fhwa.dot.gov/ReNEPA/ReNepa.nsf/docs/F6611A6D30D1B96D85257227006429AB?opendocument&Group=NEPA%20Process%20and%20Documentation&tab=REFERENCE)  The MPO is withholding inclusion of Section 4 in its TIP as "leverage" to "negotiate" the terms of participation in the environmental review of Section 5.

Isn't participation a good thing? What's the problem? Isn't this what the MPO has wanted?  Perhaps the better question is whether the MPO truly has a good faith desire to cooperate in its participation, or if it simply wants to use participation as an inside mechanism to obstruct and delay.  I suspect it is the latter.

First, in terms of past efforts to participate, MPO Chairman Kent McDaniel readily admits that he has not attended any of INDOT's sponsored meetings on I-69 (page 4/13).  This strikes me as a curious lack of both interest and effort on his part regarding a project of such importance to the MPO.  Next, it is not clear whether Bloomington and Monroe County want to participate jointly, or whether each governmental unit should be a separate "participating agency" (page 8/13). Also, Richard Martin expresses a concern that "INDOT and contractor personnel are working at a pace that may be difficult for either City or County to maintain" (page 7/13) and expresses concern about the "timely review and comment" responsibility of a participating agency (page 6/13).  These comments do not seem to reflect a desire to work hard to reach a timely solution; they suggest a strategy of delay, delay, delay.

To be fair, I do think the ball is in INDOT's court to provide some information to the MPO as to what would be involved in being a "participating agency".  I suspect, and I think INDOT probably suspects likewise, that whatever would be presented to the MPO would be objected to as inadequate and a failure to "negotiate" (although, as I read Section 6002, I do not see a requirement for lead agencies to "negotiate" the terms of involvement for a "participating agency").

The Section 5 environmental review could be a nightmare.  :-(
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 29, 2012, 12:50:05 PM
Despite trying to make it seem like they are cooperating, the majority of the MPO is with CARR. They simply do not want I-69 in Bloomington.

Here are the Questions to INDOT from the MPO (http://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/10421.pdf). I think both FHWA and INDOT answered many questions where answers could be accessed as part of the public record or were none of the MPO's business.

In the documentary, Gov. Daniels made clear that connecting I-69 to SR 37 was the primary immediate goal. Once connected, INDOT can turn its attentions north of Bloomington. Bloomington can do without its transportation funding for a while and the people there can evaluate whether or not their leadership has done the right thing. If the city and IU lose funding for their heavily used bus system, I think there will be pain.

Maybe the fact that INDOT has options beyond Bloomington is why they are finding "scheduling conflicts" that keep them from attending MPO meetings. Or maybe, Bloomington is already last in line for any improvements in the corridor. The state already told Morgan County that improvements there will likely start in 2014.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 29, 2012, 07:01:36 PM
Latest comments from Bloomington Herald Times on MPO meeting cancellation:

Area briefs: Volunteers for trails needed; take a disability poll; MPO meeting canceled COMMENTS (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wMS8yOS9uZXdzLnFwLTUyMzQxNzcuc3Rv)

First comment is excellent. Not everyone there is nuts.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on February 07, 2012, 11:13:56 AM
So it won't be too long before we see a complete and direct Interstate connection from Indianapolis to Memphis...assuming Tennessee is hard at work on its own section. The progress in Indiana is always a good thing to see.

BTW, what would the exits on the already-existing I-69 north of Indy be renumbered to?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on February 07, 2012, 11:20:53 AM
So it won't be too long before we see a complete and direct Interstate connection from Indianapolis to Memphis...assuming Tennessee is hard at work on its own section. The progress in Indiana is always a good thing to see.

BTW, what would the exits on the already-existing I-69 north of Indy be renumbered to?

Tennessee is sort of taking their time with their sections. Plus there is the Ohio River bridge south of Evansville that may take a while to build, especially since Kentucky will be in charge of a majority of its financing.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 07, 2012, 01:13:08 PM
BTW, what would the exits on the already-existing I-69 north of Indy be renumbered to?

There was a document, I believe to FHWA about INDOT wanting to officially mark the proposed route of I-69 north toward Indianapolis. The document however mentioned that the current Exit 0 would be at the new milemarker 184. Wikipedia had on its list of exits along I-69 in Indiana a list of the current exits and of the proposed exit numbers, but that second part of the list has since disappeared. So, just add the current number to 184 and that should give the new exit number. I'm just wondering if they are going to have to put all new signs in or if they can just replace the exit tabs. There are still a few button copy signs in Madison and Delaware Counties and I'm now thinking that they are waiting to replace those when they get the go ahead to renumber the exits. Just my thought though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on February 07, 2012, 03:54:54 PM
BTW, what would the exits on the already-existing I-69 north of Indy be renumbered to?

There was a document, I believe to FHWA about INDOT wanting to officially mark the proposed route of I-69 north toward Indianapolis. The document however mentioned that the current Exit 0 would be at the new milemarker 184. Wikipedia had on its list of exits along I-69 in Indiana a list of the current exits and of the proposed exit numbers, but that second part of the list has since disappeared. So, just add the current number to 184 and that should give the new exit number. I'm just wondering if they are going to have to put all new signs in or if they can just replace the exit tabs. There are still a few button copy signs in Madison and Delaware Counties and I'm now thinking that they are waiting to replace those when they get the go ahead to renumber the exits. Just my thought though.
If there's a link to the aforementioned document, I would like to see it. Seeing that when finished, the extension will run 184 miles from the current southern end, I imagine that Indiana will follow the same signing convention that Virginia and Pennsylvania (and I'm sure Florida, Georgia and Maine did it too) used when those states switched from sequential to mileage-based: in addition to re-signing the current exits to reflect the new number, signs saying "Old Exit XXX" would be placed alongside the newly-adjusted signs indicating the old number. That way, motorists would be given time to get accustomed to the new exit numbers, and once they are fully accustomed to them, the "Old Exit XXX" signs will be removed.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 08, 2012, 01:23:27 AM
This should be the link, it's from the references part of the Wikipedia page:

 http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100418145841/i-69/images/c/c1/FHWA_Administrator_Letter_-_to_review_Indiana_I-69_requests.pdf

As for the request itself, I'm not sure whether or not it was granted.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on February 08, 2012, 01:53:59 AM
Also available here: http://cms.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/FHWA%20Administrator%20Letter%20-%20to%20review%20Indiana%20I-69%20requests.pdf
AASHTO ruled "Conditional as Future I-69 pending FHWA approval letter".
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on February 09, 2012, 10:40:48 AM
Does anyone know if there is an updated projection for when sections 1-3 will be open from Evansville to Crane?  I've read that predictions call for the end of this year.  Does anyone know of anything more specific?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on February 09, 2012, 10:51:56 AM
This should be the link, it's from the references part of the Wikipedia page:

 http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100418145841/i-69/images/c/c1/FHWA_Administrator_Letter_-_to_review_Indiana_I-69_requests.pdf

As for the request itself, I'm not sure whether or not it was granted.

Also available here: http://cms.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/FHWA%20Administrator%20Letter%20-%20to%20review%20Indiana%20I-69%20requests.pdf
AASHTO ruled "Conditional as Future I-69 pending FHWA approval letter".
This helps out a lot! I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on February 11, 2012, 10:10:25 AM
I do think the ball is in INDOT's court to provide some information to the MPO as to what would be involved in being a "participating agency".  I suspect, and I think INDOT probably suspects likewise, that whatever would be presented to the MPO would be objected to as inadequate

Yesterday, INDOT and FHWA officials met with the Bloomington/Monroe County MPO and offered Bloomington and Monroe County individual opportunities to serve as a "participating agency" during the Section 5 environmental review process (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-asks-counties-cities-give-input-i69-section-5-26718/). Bloomington City Councilman Andy Ruff claims participation would be "moot" at this point:

Quote
Indiana Department of Transportation and Federal Highway Administration officals met with members of the Bloomington, Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization’s I-69 subcommittee Friday, to formally invite the cities of Bloomington and Martinsville, the town of Elletsville, and the counties of Morgan and Monroe to weigh in on the Environmental Impact Statement for the section of I-69 that runs from Bloomington to Martinsville.
According to INDOT Deputy Commissioner of Major Programs Samuel Sarvis, this offer will give local governments a chance to contribute to the planning of the road.
“They get to bring their technical, and their regional expertise to the project,” he says.
However, Bloomington City Councilman Andy Ruff says local input on section five is moot at this point.
“I just don’t think section five provides the concerned public with anywhere near the critical opportunities for influencing the project.”
According to Sarvis, the ‘Participating Agency’ meetings will take place about once a month. The governmental bodies have until early March to either accept or decline the invitations.

Why participate when it is more fun to disrupt?   :jumping:    :crazy:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on February 12, 2012, 09:06:56 AM
They are going to disrupt themselves right out of MILLIONS in transportation funds. I would not feel a bit sorry for them and those that voted them in.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 15, 2012, 11:11:48 PM
One more note about the future exit numbers for the northern, current section of I-69. INDOT recently installed blue 2/10th mile markers along the interstate from I-465 north to Anderson (Exit 26.) This means a whole lot of signs that will have to be replaced in a few years.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on February 15, 2012, 11:15:19 PM
This means a whole lot of signs that will have to be relocated in a few years.  :banghead:
Fixed for you.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on February 26, 2012, 11:34:29 PM
Judging from seeing recent (the word "mile" included and direction spelled out) blue milemarkers in places like I-70 east of Indy being replaced with identical ones instead of being moved over (i.e., old ones on temporary jersey barrier in work zone, new identical ones already installed instead of moving "old" ones that were only a couple years old), I wouldn't doubt that INDOT wouldn't go to the trouble to remove the signs from original I-69 to move them down south. 

(Lest this seem like a slam at INDOT, I've seen ODOT do the same exact thing--replace recent blue milemarkers instead of simply move them from the construction jersey barrier to the new permanent median, even though they were moved from the original median to the temporary one).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 27, 2012, 12:12:22 AM
Now that I think of it, they could just take those milemarkers out and hold them in storage until I-69 is signed in Evansville and relocate them there, which it seems you were aluding too. Of course, that may be a while before they reroute it down there.

Title: INDOT Proposes Two I-69/ SR 37 Interchange Options
Post by: Grzrd on March 01, 2012, 10:23:47 AM
In the documentary, Gov. Daniels made clear that connecting I-69 to SR 37 was the primary immediate goal.

Indiana Public Media (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-officials-propose-i69sr-37-interchange-options-27386/) reports (with plan diagrams) that INDOT is proposing two I-69/ SR 37 interchange options:

Quote
INDOT officials Wednesday have proposed two possibilities for how the interchange between Interstate 69 and State Road 37 might be constructed.
One plan would require drivers to reduce their speeds to 20 mph and would include a roundabout, while the other plan would allow cars to move faster upon entering and exiting I-69. The plan allowing for higher speeds would cost about $1 million more. According to INDOT Deputy Commissioner for Major Project Management Sam Sarvis, the agency will be asking for public input before a final decision on which plan to implement.
“There’ll be a reevaluation process and public input this spring, and the decision will be made sometime after that, after we have got all that public input,” Sarvis says.
Sarvis says the construction of the interchange could begin as early as January or February of next year, with completion anticipated by the end of 2014.

Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO will have a chance to provide their input ...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 01, 2012, 01:58:28 PM
A roundabout on a mainline interstate? That's what the story seems to imply but it's not the case at all when you look at the plans.

What's the big deal about not using the conventional trumpet interchange? So what if one of the ramps requires 25 mph traffic? Lots of trumpets and cloverleafs already have 25 mph ramps.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 01, 2012, 07:21:39 PM
As one who has traveled this highway in the past, I would pick the trumpet interchange any day of the week. There is nothing wrong about the roundabout design, but I think those work best with a freeway to minor road interchange. SR 37 south of Bloomington will still be a well-traveled four-lane expressway and the only 25-MPH ramp will be from northbound SR 37 to SB (southwest bound really) I-69, a movement that won't be taken too much.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 09, 2012, 07:39:54 PM
Bloomington MPO approves I-69 Section 4!

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/09/bloomington-panel-vote-i-69-section/ (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/09/bloomington-panel-vote-i-69-section/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 09, 2012, 10:23:47 PM
Bloomington MPO approves I-69 Section 4!

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/09/bloomington-panel-vote-i-69-section/ (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/09/bloomington-panel-vote-i-69-section/)

Time for Celebration!;)  Sorry I couldn't resist to post that clip. :sombrero:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on March 10, 2012, 09:28:53 AM
“When are we going to learn that creating jobs by destroying the earth is a fool’s strategy?” he said. “If you say ‘No, not on my watch,’ then you will have done the right thing – something you can be proud of.”

The real Tom Tokarskit comes out as a bitter, hateful little man.

Is it possible to build sound directors aimed right at his house?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: InterstateNG on March 10, 2012, 10:39:35 AM
Oh, the irony.
Title: Probable Bloomington MPO Vote Challenge on Monday
Post by: Grzrd on March 10, 2012, 09:39:24 PM
Just like a Halloween or Friday the 13th movie, don't ever make the mistake of thinking that the MPO has been neutralized and won't return ...

According to this article (http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86074), Monroe County Commissioner Mark Stoops plans to challenge the vote of Bill Williams, Monroe County Highway Department director:

Quote
By a narrow 7-6 vote, the policy committee of the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization agreed to include construction of Interstate 69 to Indiana 37 in their Transportation Improvement Program ....
But if one member of the MPO Citizens Advisory Committee succeeds, this decision could be reversed ....
During Friday’s MPO meeting, several community members approached the board with concerns of conflict of interest. Bill Williams, Monroe County Highway Department director, was their concern.
Williams’ son works as a subcontractor for INDOT, specifically working on construction of I-69. During the meeting, chairperson Kent McDaniel, representing the Bloomington Public Transit Corp., said no conflict of interest existed because Williams does not benefit directly from his son’s employment.
Ultimately, Williams voted ‘yes’ to include I-69 in the TIP.
Monroe County Commissioner Mark Stoops disagrees.
“I will be contesting the vote,” Stoops said. “The MPO violated the requirements of the Indiana Code when they’re confronted with a conflict of interest.”
According to sate law, when the MPO was notified of a conflict of interest they were required to receive an opinion from an outside source not on the committee. They would then have been required to submit a written review of the conflict of interest and decide whether or not the perceived conflict of interest existed.
This was not the only procedural flaw, Stoops said. When the Monroe County Commissioners appointed Williams to the MPO, Stoops said they should have been notified of the conflict of interest before appointing Williams to the MPO.
“Indiana Code specifically states that if an immediate family member has a financial interest, that represents a conflict,” Stoops said. “The vote by Bill Williams, it was a ‘yes’ vote, will be void and not valid. So that means, technically, I-69 is not included in our TIP because the vote to include it in our TIP failed."
Stoops plans to challenge Williams' vote Monday.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on March 10, 2012, 10:53:26 PM
Lack of leadship/political initiative to roll back a defective transportation bill?  Seems like it was one in the early 1990's that gave the MPO's more power.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on March 10, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: bugo on March 10, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

The same way a bunch of Republican male yahoos are trying to outlaw birth control and abortions and condoms.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mightyace on March 11, 2012, 01:32:36 AM
Gee does everything here have to be turned into an off-topic political discussion?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:35:29 AM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

The same way a bunch of Republican male yahoos are trying to outlaw birth control ... and condoms.

Except they aren't.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on March 11, 2012, 11:28:44 AM
Lack of leadship/political initiative to roll back a defective transportation bill?  Seems like it was one in the early 1990's that gave the MPO's more power.

Both House and Senate versions of reauthorization bill are addressing the issue of proper balance among local MPO, state, and federal authority.  IIRC the Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO serves a population of approximately 92,000. This Feb. 3, 2012 article (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/feb/03/no-headline---ev_i-69/) indicates that the Senate version of the bill seeks to abolish MPOs that serve populations of less than 250,000, whereas the House version would keep the MPOs but permit the governor to override any MPO recalcitrance regarding vital interstate projects:

Quote
A House committee has approved a federal highway spending bill that could settle a dispute jeopardizing construction of a final segment of Interstate 69 between Evansville and Indianapolis.
In a 29-24 vote after a marathon mark-up session that finally concluded at 3 a.m. Friday, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee approved a $260 billion, five-year surface transportation package.
The bill includes a provision inserted at the behest of Indiana's 8th District Rep. Larry Bucshon, of Newburgh, that essentially prohibits a Metropolitan Planning Organization from standing in the way of an interstate project of statewide significance ....
The Bucshon provision permits the governor to override any MPO recalcitrance regarding vital interstate projects. Gov. Mitch Daniels is a proponent of the I-69 project.
Competing legislation in the Senate abolishes MPOs that serve a population of less than 250,000, thus eliminating more than 75 percent of Indiana's MPOs. Bucshon, though, recommends keeping the panels because they frequently provide significant input ....

Of course, who knows if a reauthorization bill will pass anytime in the near future?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on March 11, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.

OK, for a minute there I thought you were referring to something touching you personally as meaning I-69 running through your back yard, which would give literal meaning to the term NIMBY.  :bigass:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on March 11, 2012, 02:35:51 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.

OK, for a minute there I thought you were referring to something touching you personally as meaning I-69 running through your back yard, which would give literal meaning to the term NIMBY.  :bigass:
I'd love a freeway running through my backyard. With one stipulation: I get my own personal exit signed entirely in button copy, embossed, and/or pre-FHWA fonts.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 05:08:33 PM
And a cutout US 46 shield?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on March 11, 2012, 05:53:37 PM
And a cutout US 46 shield?
(http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/us_46/wbroad.jpg)
You know, I really ought to get a better version, though I think it's just in my queue.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 11, 2012, 06:46:46 PM
(http://alpsroads.net/roads/nj/us_9w/fletchl.jpg)
Not the best-looking shield, but it's a legit (bordered) cutout.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: DeaconG on March 11, 2012, 08:07:16 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

Unfortunately, yes; and considering how hard headed these folk are, it will probably be several of their children before they change their minds and scream for something to be done.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 11, 2012, 10:21:33 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 12, 2012, 11:00:51 PM
Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on March 13, 2012, 12:02:40 AM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)
Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.
Additionally, there's no caprice behind the decision. Public input is carefully considered for ALL stakeholders. The idea is that one small group of road terrorists doesn't get to dictate to the majority what's best when it clearly isn't best.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on March 13, 2012, 03:13:01 AM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)

Would the "individual property rights" of people alongside US 41 been equally "violated" if Tom Tolarksi had had his way and I-69 been rerouted along that highway and I-70??  What about the "individual property rights" of those who WANTED the new-terrain I-69??

I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be, and I favored the new terrain route as the best and most convenient connection between Evansville and Indy. The NIMBYs there are simply so full of it, and they are acting like spoiled brats who can't accept defeat and would rather simply either run out the clock or trash everything in their "If I can't have you, nobody will" rage.


Anthony

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 13, 2012, 03:19:51 AM
I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be
You say this like someone has to like something to be interested in it. Are historians who study the Third Reich all Nazis?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 13, 2012, 07:49:44 AM
And now, for something more relavent, as it turns out, we are not completely done with Bloomington. New today:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30665709/detail.html (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30665709/detail.html)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 13, 2012, 07:51:11 PM
Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.
So Indiana is building I-69 in Mississippi then?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 13, 2012, 09:40:58 PM
Well, no. But you know what I mean.

Actually, isn't most of I-69 construction in Indiana being funded by the leasing of the toll road?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 13, 2012, 10:21:40 PM
The first three sections definently are financed by the toll road, I think the fourth might be coming from traditional funding, but it may be from the toll road as well. The last two sections will be funded traditionally.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on March 13, 2012, 11:52:17 PM
I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be
You say this like someone has to like something to be interested in it. Are historians who study the Third Reich all Nazis?

No, not really...just saying that not all self-ID'd Leftists are anti-highway whackjobs who want to tear down every freeway ever built and replace them with commuter rail.


Anthony
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 14, 2012, 12:51:51 AM
No, not really...just saying that not all self-ID'd Leftists are anti-highway whackjobs who want to tear down every freeway ever built and replace them with commuter rail.
But even if someone did want to do that (which is an obvious strawman in the first place), that wouldn't mean they couldn't be a roadgeek.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on March 21, 2012, 08:42:13 PM
I've been away for a few weeks so am not sure if this was mentioned in this thread, but I noticed that the 12/12/12 INDOT scheduled construction letting has the SR 37 interchange. I thought I-69 was going to temporarily end at a stoplight at SR 37.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 21, 2012, 11:54:54 PM
They were, but INDOT has decided to build an interchange after all. There's a link to an article on the sixth page of this thread, prior to the political bickering that mentions that Bloomington is being given two options for an interchange. To my knowledge, one hasn't been picked yet, but regardless an interchange will be built there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on March 22, 2012, 12:18:22 AM
I've been away for a few weeks so am not sure if this was mentioned in this thread, but I noticed that the 12/12/12 INDOT scheduled construction letting has the SR 37 interchange. I thought I-69 was going to temporarily end at a stoplight at SR 37.

Stop and go lights at the ends of the interchange ramps?

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on March 22, 2012, 07:07:07 AM
They were, but INDOT has decided to build an interchange after all. There's a link to an article on the sixth page of this thread, prior to the political bickering that mentions that Bloomington is being given two options for an interchange. To my knowledge, one hasn't been picked yet, but regardless an interchange will be built there.
I guess an option was chosen if they have this specificity:
- "New bridge SR 37 NE loop over I 69"
- "New bridge SR 37 NE loop over SR 37 NB and SB"
- "New bridge SR 37 SB exit over I-69"

At one point, there were four possible design options for the interchange.

It would be nice if they extended the freeway up through Bloomington which would be relatively cheap - probably one more interchange and 3-5 more overpasses. North of Bloomington, it will get ugly.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on March 23, 2012, 10:01:57 PM
“I will be contesting the vote,” Stoops said. “The MPO violated the requirements of the Indiana Code when they’re confronted with a conflict of interest.”

Upon further review (http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86229) ... after Stoops actually had someone review the Indiana Code, he had to agree that no violation of a state statute occurred; nevertheless, he will not drop the vote challenge until an "unidentified attorney" reviews federal law:

Quote
Following a narrow vote to include Interstate 69 in the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization’s Transportation Improvement Program, one member of the MPO cited a conflict of interest, nullifying the vote.
But the cited conflict of interest does not meet several requirements under Indiana’s conflict of interest statute.
Still aiming to reverse the MPO’s decision, Monroe County Commissioner Mark Stoops, who challenged the decision because of the potential conflict of interest, is continuing his challenge under federal conflict of interest laws.
“The MPO is set up under federal legislation, and that is what we are researching right now to see if there are additional or different constraints on a conflict of interest process,” Stoops said. “I haven’t dropped my contesting the vote, and I won’t until I get an opinion on federal law that applies to the MPO.”
Stoops said he is currently working with an unidentified lawyer who, he said, is educated on federal procedure ....

Even someone else who voted against I-69, Bloomington Mayor Mark Kruzan, appears irritated that Stoops has publicly challenged the vote before taking a hard look at the law:

Quote
“The most important part of all of this stuff is to research the law before bringing up a complaint,” Mayor Mark Kruzan said. “The state statute he cited does not apply, and my preference is to find that out before we bring it up.”

Kudos to Kruzan for applying common sense on this point.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on March 25, 2012, 10:46:35 AM
Word vomit: an uncontrolled spilling of words out of one's mouth

The opponents really don't seem to care about facts. They say whatever is convenient to support their cause - they are zealots. Often the media simply reports what they say without proper analysis. One example is here: Indy Star article: I-69 project: Can state finish what it started? (http://www.indystar.com/article/20090817/LOCAL/908170339/I-69-project-Can-state-finish-what-started-).

The particular quote before contracts were awarded was: "That $700 million: There's no way that gets them to Crane. No way," said Thomas Tokarski, president of Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads, a leading I-69 opposition group. "They're going to run out of money."

In reality, the contracts awarded that are getting I-69 from I-64 to Crane were substantially less than $700M, but you still hear people talk about overruns because that is what was reported in the media.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on March 27, 2012, 08:47:25 PM
Two new I-69 articles from the Evansville Courier & Press - More I-69 craziness in Bloomington:

Question over conflict of interest in I-69 vote lingers (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/27/no-headline---ev_169/)

Interstate 69 extension route runs near 1830s foundry site (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/mar/26/interstate-69-extension-route-runs-near-1830s-foun/)

I guess you have to give some people in Bloomington an "A" for persistence.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 02, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
More articles from the Evansville Courier Press. I definitely agree with the firefighters' point, but am not grasping the bat issue. Will I-69 be built or could it become like US 31 near Benton Harbor, Michigan where there will be a permanent gap?

Indiana bat halts land clearing for I-69 until October (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/apr/01/indiana-bat-halts-i-69-work-until-october/?partner=popular)

Firefighters want emergency gates added to I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/apr/02/firefighters-want-emergency-gates-added-i-69/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 02, 2012, 10:07:26 PM
I'm under the impression that the bat issue isn't going to harm the overall timeline and that Section 4 will still be done in 2014. Parts of that section can still be worked upon this summer, just not the parts with those trees for the bats.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on April 19, 2012, 10:42:59 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120418/NEWS02/120419004/Ground-broken-69-extension

Quote
Some Southern Indiana officials celebrated the start of construction work on a hotly-contested section of the Interstate 69 extension project.

Several government and business leaders participated in a groundbreaking ceremony Tuesday for the 27-mile stretch of I-69 from near the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Indiana 37 south of Bloomington.

Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce president Christy Gillenwater said she believes the highway will help add jobs to the area and can't wait for it to reach Bloomington.

Construction is under way on the highway from Evansville to near Crane, but environmentalists have continued fighting the route picked near Bloomington.

Opponent Thomas Tokarski says protesters missed the groundbreaking ceremony because highway officials kept it quiet to give a false impression about public support.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 19, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
Had a chance to fly over Southwest Indiana last week and saw the construction of the interstate from the air, particularly Sections 1 and 2 from Petersburg southward. I was able to see that construction had already started at the intersection of SR 45 and SR 445 in eastern Greene County for the new alignment that will connect to a spur onto the interstate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on April 19, 2012, 11:02:19 PM
And the highway continues to creep further north towards Indy. Always good to see progress, despite the ongoing opposition in the middle. Perhaps in 25 years or less, the Memphis-to-Indianapolis corridor will be done...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 19, 2012, 11:15:25 PM
INDOT's announcement on the new I-69 construction is at :
  Construction Activities Underway in Section 4 of I-69 Project (http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=55289&information_id=110972&type=&syndicate=syndicate)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 22, 2012, 01:38:01 PM
No Tom T. at the ceremony. Guess he must have gotten stopped in traffic on one of his precious local roads.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 22, 2012, 05:48:14 PM
Could be. I'm sure Mitch and Tom are pretty close so Mitch was probably pretty disappointed that Tom couldn't celebrate with the INDOT boys and girls. Perhaps next time.

Moving up toward Martinsville. Between Bloomington and Martinsville, many intersecting roads on SR 37 are narrow, winding, and disjointed. Some businesses are right on SR 37 even if the access is not directly from the highway. Which roads get overpasses, interchanges, or cul-de-sacs will be interesting. Also, some of the pavement on this stretch of SR 37 is in rough shape so I would guess the state would need to replace at least some of it.

In Martinsville itself, the way I-69 will be built through there is a bit more up in the air as development has encroached onto the highway and there are no interchanges other than the one at SR 39. I think officially, the state still plans to begin build I-69 through Martinsville in 2015. That depends on funding and if the new governor puts the same priority on highways as Mitch Daniels has.

A short article in the Evansville Courier and Press discusses the current status going north.
State presenting Interstate 69 extension proposals (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/apr/16/state-presenting-interstate-69-extension-proposals/).

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 22, 2012, 06:56:58 PM
I'm curious if a frontage road system would work for Martinsville. Leaving the SR 39 interchange alone, have two frontage roads line an urban-looking I-69 along the current SR 37 from before Burton Lane north to past SR 44 with slip ramps connecting the interstate to the frontage roads at key spots (Burton Ln, Ohio Street, Wal-Mart, SR 252 and SR 44.) The system may still take out some commercial development, but it may be better than bigger interchanges at only a couple or so of streets and having to build a system of roads (which may include frontage roads anyway) to connect the streets that are passed over to those at the interchanges. Just my two cents from someone who's done the Bloomington to Indy drive many times with only a couple of them involving sucessful trips through Martinsville without stopping once.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on April 23, 2012, 06:19:09 PM
INDOT has posted the April 2012 version of the Section 5 Revised Preliminary Alternatives Analysis and Screening (http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/SOA_4-5-12.pdf) from Bloomington to Martinsville.  Four alternatives are analyzed and screened, with comparative maps of Alternatives 4 & 5, and of Alternatives 6 & 7, found on pages 97-108/108 of the pdf.  INDOT has also posted the April 2012 Section 5 Draft Purpose & Need (http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Sec5_Purpose_And_Need_Statement_4-2-12.pdf). A public meeting to review these materials (http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Public-to-Get-First-Look-At-Prelim-Road-Drawings.pdf) is being held tomorrow.

No Tom T. at the ceremony. Guess he must have gotten stopped in traffic on one of his precious local roads.

The press release does not mention if any special personal invitations were extended.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on April 24, 2012, 12:14:47 PM
I drive from Evansville-Jasper-Bloomington-Indy every night. There has been a lot of activity of tree clearing and excavating from 231 to 45 and east to 54. It looks like the 445-45 intersection is getting a major overhaul. I think I heard 445 will connect to 69. Is this true? Once 69 is completed to Crane, I think there will be much more traffic going up 231 north or 45/58 north/east. These roads are curvy and can be tough to navigate at night with rain and especially snow. I hope everyone drives safely with the added congestion. I can't wait until 2014 for the completion to Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 24, 2012, 12:59:16 PM
I suspect the SR 45 route from the Crane area will be prefered since it bypasses Bloomfield, though for those who may be heading north toward Indy, US 231 could get busier up toward I-70. As I mentioned previously, I recently flew over where 445 will connect with 69. I'm not sure if the exit is going to be labeled SR 445, or TO SR 45/54. The documents on the project have this exit labeled as "Greene-Monroe County Line."
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 24, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
According to what I have read, the road connecting I-69 to SR 45 is called the "SR 45/I-69 Interchange Connector", oddly enough. I think calling it SR 445 might make more sense.

Before the Bloomington MPO fiasco was resolved, I wonder if INDOT had a contingency plan for I-69 to temporarily end at the connector before it made it all the way to Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on April 25, 2012, 03:35:42 AM
I suspect the SR 45 route from the Crane area will be prefered since it bypasses Bloomfield, though for those who may be heading north toward Indy, US 231 could get busier up toward I-70. As I mentioned previously, I recently flew over where 445 will connect with 69. I'm not sure if the exit is going to be labeled SR 445, or TO SR 45/54. The documents on the project have this exit labeled as "Greene-Monroe County Line."
This is what I'm afraid of, having more congestion driving north on 45 past Crane, up and down hills and curves. There will be even more truck traffic. I know this will be only for 2 years, but I travel north every evening and I am not excited about the extra traffic. I wonder what closures and rerouting around the 45-445 intersection will look like. Is there any maps showing where 445 will connect 69?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 25, 2012, 08:05:27 AM
The route that would experience the least congestion would be the one following SR 58 from US 231 to SR 37, but it isn't the most direct. The worst route would be US 231 to SR 54 to SR 445 to SR 45 to SR 37 bcause you would hit at least two areas likely to experience backups. I have no idea what the posted detour might be - I also suspect it might be SR 45 from Crane to Bloomington.

As for maps, go to the INDOT web site and search. There is at least one map on there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 25, 2012, 10:34:02 AM
One additional thing to note, I saw that INDOT is planning on improving some of the intersections along SR 45 through southwestern Monroe County this year. I don't think that's a coincidence, INDOT may be grooming SR 45 to be that detour.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on April 25, 2012, 09:16:24 PM
One additional thing to note, I saw that INDOT is planning on improving some of the intersections along SR 45 through southwestern Monroe County this year. I don't think that's a coincidence, INDOT may be grooming SR 45 to be that detour.
I also saw the orange stakes along 45. Looks like they are expecting more traffic and will be widening the road somewhat.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 26, 2012, 08:25:02 AM
Below is a link to a pretty good article published a couple of days ago in the Evansville Courier & Press. Clearly, the majority folks in Bloomington aren't as on the fringe as the press stories over the years have suggested. Even with this latest meeting in Bloomington which the following article describes, one Indianapolis broadcast station still dedicates half its story to an interview with Tom Tokarski (noted anti-I-69 activist) - still making it look like the majority of people oppose the highway. The Evansville newspaper article noted that hundreds attended the meeting sponsored by INDOT and there were 15 protesters.

Bloomington residents get first look at proposed routes for I-69 segment (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/apr/24/no-headline---ev_interstate69/) (Evansville Courier & Press)

Compare and contrast ("a few Hoosiers were in favor of the expansion"):
Bloomington Residents Hope To Stall I-69 Construction (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30951135/detail.html)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 26, 2012, 11:58:07 PM
One additional thing to note, I saw that INDOT is planning on improving some of the intersections along SR 45 through southwestern Monroe County this year. I don't think that's a coincidence, INDOT may be grooming SR 45 to be that detour.

Actually, if you look at the plans online, there will be a sign at US 231 showing the following:

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/Follow_231.gif)

So I assume US 231 will be the "official" detour.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 27, 2012, 12:15:57 AM
Where are these plans you speak of, I'm not doubting you, it's just I haven't seen any sign diagrams for I-69 before.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 27, 2012, 12:32:54 AM
It takes a lot of work. First, find the contract number.

Then go here (https://netservices.indot.in.gov/ViewDocs2.0/). In the dropdown labeled "Choose A Document Type" select "Plan/Drawing Sets" and enter just the 5 digit number in the contract number text box.

In the results page, select the "Traffic" document(s) if they exist.

Caution: some contracts don't seem to have traffic documents.

So how do you find a contract number in the first place? Go here (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/index.html) and try to figure out when the contract you are interested in was let. I think that particular section of I-69 was let in October, 2010 (or thereabouts). In the page that is displayed, click on the "Official Bid Results" hyperlink and get the contract number from that page.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 27, 2012, 01:02:12 AM
Thanks, I've already found one for the SR 64 exit (33 I think?) and I will look for more. Off the top of what I saw, I was surprised to not see Oakland City as a control at that exit (Princeton and Huntingburg were listed.) I've had a thing for controls on signage and seeing this may satisfy me for now.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 27, 2012, 01:13:58 AM
SR 168, SR 64, SR 56/61, SR 58, and US 231 ones are out there. I could not find US 50. Indianapolis and Evansville are the I-69 control cities, BTW (no real surprise that Bloomington is not).

All Kokomo US 31 freeway signs are in a single document - complete with two SR 931 exits.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 27, 2012, 02:31:48 AM
Did a little more exploring, and I must do more later on. I found US 50, it's control cities are Washington and Vincennes, but interestingly no Loogootee. Loogootee is mentioned on the off-ramp however alongside Washington and Vincennes. Moving further north, I saw Exit 98 for SR 45, which was signed for just the highway, no controls. I was looking for the SR 37 exit but that contract may not be out yet.

I also noticed the US 31 signs and I saw that they are using exit tabs for the signs along the new US 31 in Kokomo, but not on the signs for US 31 in Hamilton County. I have no idea on the Plymouth to Fort Wayne segment. And if the Kokomo signs are to correct, that will be the second non-interstate stretch to have exit numbers. Thanks again for the link, I was looking earlier through INDOT's site and it would have been a while before I would have stumbled on that page.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 27, 2012, 07:48:29 AM
I found those pages quite a while ago - maybe over a year ago by just using Google or Bing. I actually found some mistakes in signs on US 31 Kokomo and notified INDOT back then. They had an incorrect road on a mileage sign on US 31, had a wrong street name on an interchange, and back then it only showed small green signs saying "SOUTH BEND" and "INDIANAPOLIS" (i.e. in caps) for SR 22 at the freeway. No highway markers were on the drawings for these signs. The current document for US 31 Kokomo looks real good from what I can see so maybe the ones that were originally posted were preliminary. Most contracts did not have a traffic document published when I looked last year.

As for exit tabs, I also noticed what you said. Even a year ago, tabs were shown on the signage around Kokomo. What is surprising is that Hamilton County section of US 31 doesn't have them. The actual SR 38 BGS that was erected confirms the diagrams on the INDOT site.

I have not seen any signage diagrams for US 31 South Bend. SR 25 signage plan for Delphi is out there (the control City is "Delphi", not "Delphi" and "Rossville").
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on April 29, 2012, 03:19:02 PM
According to a map atlas at a local Walgreen's Drug Store, it shows a sizeable chunk of I-69 completed north of I-64.  It also shows the rest of the route under construction to Indianapolis.

I do not know how much of this is correct as this is a non Rand McNally road map.  Plus, it only shows the US 31 freeway under construction between Plymouth and South Bend and not at all showing the US 31 Kokomo Bypass.  Both freeways are well into being built and that means that there could be a wide margin of error for this map printer.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 29, 2012, 04:23:26 PM
Kappa Map, perhaps? That one shows:
- I-69 open to US 231 from the south (it is only open from I-64 to SR 68)
- I-69 under construction from US 231 to Indianapolis (you could say it is mostly UC from US 231 to an extension of SR 445)
- US 31 UC south from South Bend to US 6 (fairly accurate, but now UC further south)
- US 31 Kokomo construction not shown
- US 24 as under construction in Indiana and Ohio even though part of it opened in 2009 - this is not shown as freeway even though part of it really is
- SR 641 as UC even though part of it opened in 2010
It does not show:
- SR 25 construction even though it is under construction from Lafayette to Logansport with part of the new roadway open
- I-74 & Ronald Reagan Pkwy interchange or I-65 & 109th Avenue or even I-65 & SR 14 which opened years ago
- Doesn't show divided portions of US 27, SR 28, or SR 331 that were completed years ago

If it is that atlas, you said it right. It is not a very accurate map.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Morriswa on April 29, 2012, 05:25:01 PM
I am eagerly awaiting I-69's completion.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on April 29, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
I think it might be a Kappa map.  I will go to Walgreen's on way home from work tomorrow and see.  Alex thinks it is as it took I-49 around Texarkana out of the AR state DOT official map, where it was shown only proposed as this map showing UC>
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on April 29, 2012, 09:14:01 PM
I think it might be a Krappa map.  I will go to Walgreen's on way home from work tomorrow and see.  Alex thinks it is as it took I-49 around Texarkana out of the AR state DOT official map, where it was shown only proposed as this map showing UC>

If it was, it indeed is just a straight copy from the Indiana official state map. That was part of their MO, write for official state maps, graft what is new and show proposed lines as under construction without question.

Them showing I-69 as complete is just an error. When you look at the atlas again, look on the Texas page and see if there is a toll road u/c heading south from Ft. Worth. That is the line for SH 121 Toll (Chisholm Trail). I added that to the research I did on that atlas in 2008, even though it was just proposed at the time.  :D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: flaroads on April 29, 2012, 09:32:45 PM
Another item you might want to check to see if this is indeed a Krappa map is the proposed I-66 in Kentucky from Interstate 24 south of Paducah to I-57 in Missouri. I know it was shown as proposed in prior KY state maps. I know that this proposal showed up on their 2009 professional drivers atlas and other products. I figured I would add this in even though it is not directly related to the I-69 extension but would give you further proof that it was indeed a Krappa product.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 29, 2012, 10:18:59 PM
If it was, it indeed is just a straight copy from the Indiana official state map. That was part of their MO, write for official state maps, graft what is new and show proposed lines as under construction without question.

At the moment, the official INDOT map is IMO the most updated. I've seen the Kappa atlas and there are plenty of inaccuracies compared to the INDOT map, as listed above. I would prefer Rand McNally, AAA, and Michelen over Kappa.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Morriswa on April 30, 2012, 04:28:46 PM
Doesn't Michelin use AAA's ugly cartography?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 30, 2012, 08:30:40 PM
I don't think so. I do believe though that AAA and Rand McNally get their stuff from the same source, only it looks different. The same stretches of road that are divided on Rand McNally's Indianapolis map is divided on AAA's. In any case, each type of map has their own style cartographically as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Morriswa on May 01, 2012, 09:21:49 AM
Yeah, and AAA's looks crappy to me.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 03, 2012, 10:08:17 PM
Apparently, the final I-69-SR 37 Bloomington interchange design has not been finalized. Democracy in action, I guess...

‘Trumpet’ Or ‘Diamond’? INDOT Wants Your Opinion (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/trumpet-diamond-indot-opinion-29873/) (Indiana Public Media)
Section 4 Reevaluation Document (http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ReevaluationReleaseForPI+Appendices.pdf)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sr641 on May 06, 2012, 08:11:52 AM
theyre building a spencer bypass in a few years for us 231. maybe i69 traffic can go on that ontheyre way to i70. lol.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: english si on May 07, 2012, 07:35:10 AM
Doesn't Michelin use AAA's ugly cartography?
I'll scan a sample of my atlas when I have time. It's certainly not standard Michelin cartography (though they've stopped using it for the British isles now, using the AA's, which is a great shame), but I don't know what it is.

I find the back blurb about the "unique flip-of-the-page' navigation funny - it's far from unique, though it is the main reason I bought the atlas - a usable North America atlas.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sr641 on May 10, 2012, 04:32:04 PM
I-67 is going to be joining I69 at Washington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: english si on May 10, 2012, 06:23:18 PM
I'll scan a sample of my atlas when I have time. It's certainly not standard Michelin cartography (though they've stopped using it for the British isles now, using the AA's, which is a great shame), but I don't know what it is.
Not the best location to show all the features, and a mapping error to boot, but
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9296/futi69.jpg)
I chose this area as it links in with other recent discussion on the Ohio Valley board about Interstates to Owensboro.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on May 10, 2012, 06:26:34 PM
That's the MapQuest/National Geographic style.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sr641 on May 10, 2012, 07:28:09 PM
I'll scan a sample of my atlas when I have time. It's certainly not standard Michelin cartography (though they've stopped using it for the British isles now, using the AA's, which is a great shame), but I don't know what it is.
Not the best location to show all the features, and a mapping error to boot, but
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9296/futi69.jpg)
I chose this area as it links in with other recent discussion on the Ohio Valley board about Interstates to Owensboro.

The Audabon Parkway is future Interstate 369.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on May 10, 2012, 07:57:36 PM
The Audabon Parkway is future Interstate 369.

What's the speed limit? 88?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sr641 on May 10, 2012, 08:01:19 PM
The Audabon Parkway is future Interstate 369.

What's the speed limit? 88?

I believe it is 65 m.p.h.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on May 10, 2012, 10:45:33 PM
The Audabon Parkway is future Interstate 369.

A number hasn't been picked for it yet. The signage along it indicates it as Future I-69 Spur. Where are you coming up with all this crap you are posting? Are you making it up, hallucinating it or just trying to troll us?

The Audabon Parkway is future Interstate 369.

What's the speed limit? 88?

I believe it is 65 m.p.h.

It's actually 70 mph.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tidecat on May 11, 2012, 06:05:53 AM
According to Wikipedia, Daviess County officials are the ones who proposed I-369 back in 2005:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_369_(Kentucky) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_369_(Kentucky))

I-369 may make more sense as long as I-164 is on the hoof, and especially since the Greater Owensboro Chamber of Commerce is also pushing an I-165 designation for the Natcher: http://gotransportation.net/highway_plans_&_projects/i-66_65_spur.php  The irony is that the same site shows the Audubon as I-169, not I-369.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 12, 2012, 10:51:06 PM
I decided to take a vacation day on Friday to check out progress on I-69. I am not an expert, but I am having a hard time seeing how the SR 68 to US 231 section will open in 2012 as scheduled. I decided to venture down some gravel roads and covered the entire length (as much as possible).

Starting at SR 37 in Bloomington, the first sign of construction was at SR 445 where a lot of trees have been cut and earth moving has begun. The second sign was where I-69 crosses SR 45 where a lot of earth has been moved. I did not go down any backroads in this newest section. The next point I saw was at US 231, and from there on I spent more time. Below are some pictures - these are all from areas that are well underway. I will try to post some where the road is not as far along in another post.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-US231-1.jpg)
US 231 at I-69 - the deck is not in place on this overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-Asphalt-1.jpg)
Asphalt paving in Daviess County north of Washington

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-PCCP-1.jpg)
PCCP paving near Washington (just north of US 50)

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-US50-1.jpg)
US 50 new eastbound lanes at I-69

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-SR64.jpg)
SR 64 at I-69
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 13, 2012, 02:28:15 PM
The scale of this project is amazing. I thought 70 -80 miles was long, but when you see all the men and machinery operating along the whole length of this thing, the scale sinks in. I think this would be considered a long project even by 1960s and early 1970s standards as even then it was common to see 20-30 mile sections being built at a time.

This is where I am seeing a problem as so much paving will have to be done over so many miles toward the tail end of this year. Not much of the road is yet paved today. A lot of the road isn't even close to final grade and some of it is still in earth-moving stages. Most bridges are well along, but some are barely started. If this opens up in 2012, it will be pretty amazing, but on the other hand a lot has changed since my last look at it in late October, 2011.

Part 2 of I-69 photos follows.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-SR56-2.jpg)
I-69 at SR 56/SR 61 near Petersburg. This overpass has a ways to go.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-Elnora-2.jpg)
Overpass over railway tracks near Elnora

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-GreeneCty-2.jpg)
Looking north in northern Daviess County (south of SR 58)

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Hole-1.jpg)
Digging out bad soil in Gibson County

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-Washington-1.jpg)
Overpass over railway tracks just north of US 50 in Washington

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-Elnora-1.jpg)
Looking where the road makes a turn toward the east near Elnora


Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on May 14, 2012, 09:25:01 PM
^ These are really nice pics. I am also amazed at the scale of the construction effort on I-69. If only we could see something like this for other important future interstates (*cough*I-49*cough*).

Thanks mukade!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 16, 2012, 08:13:04 PM
According to the latest INDOT letting schedule that was released yesterday, all of the remaining I-69 contracts up to SR 37 will be let beginning in July and ending in October of this year. That bumps the schedule forward a couple of months. I believe the sections from US 231 to SR 37 account for at least 25 miles of new freeway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: The Great Whamini on May 16, 2012, 08:57:59 PM
I heard it's bat mating season in some forest areas, so tree felling was suspending through this October.  I say all well and good.  There's plenty of land now on the fast track for completion.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 18, 2012, 09:10:59 AM
Enjoy this long construction piece. Most likely it will be the LAST ever in America. I hear folks on I-49 but my hope is not strong for long stretches of it in Arkansas. It will be a 5-10 mile slog at a time for decades.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 18, 2012, 05:01:57 PM
It could be. The Toll Road deal happened at the perfect time so Indiana got maximum dollars from the lease. After that, Indiana took advantage of the poor economy to get very low prices on the new construction. Also, the governor was committed to building roads as promised, not diverting the money to the general fund as many people suggested. So the urgency and economy worked together to create the perfect storm for a lot of road construction. While this may be the last such case (short of new toll roads on new or existing terrain, possibly), it is one one more case than I ever expected to see again after the 1970s.

Dollar-wise, the Hamilton County US 31 improvement scheduled for 2014 will be not too far off the cost to build I-69 from Evansville to Crane. Not nearly as long, though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on May 21, 2012, 01:35:56 AM
Great pics. Thanks for the updates. The 445 section is really coming along. They have already removed several houses around 45 and 445. I can't wait for the Ev to Crane to be finished.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 21, 2012, 08:47:07 AM
So which is finished first I-69 from Bloomington to Indy or I-67 (trying to be positive) from Indy to South Bend? I think I-67 as it might be cheaper and easier.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on May 21, 2012, 09:32:52 AM
I think I-69 would be done first, only because the entire cooridor is more or less planned out, the details are still needed for the interchanges along with the enviromental plans and of course there is accurquing the funding (we don't have another toll road to sell.) But we haven't even gotten to any of the initial steps on converting the rest of US 31 to a freeway, only the mere talk about it (as evidenced from the article a few posts up.) I think that the that stretch of highway won't be converted for a while unless funding can be found to do that and with all that, I-69 might be able to inch its way up north from Bloomington just soon enough to be mostly finished by the time that happens. Note that I say "inch" since I'm not convinced that Sections 5 and 6 will be done quickly. However, if I see an actual timetable and financing plan for making the rest of US 31 into a freeway (I am more partial to keeping the US 31 name instead of I-67 when it becomes a freeway, personally) then I will conclude that the 31 corridor can be finished first.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 21, 2012, 12:44:09 PM
I agree I-69 is the top priority in the state. One interesting thing in the I-69 plans being discussed is whether to rebuild or keep some of the existing SR 37 interchanges in Bloomington. Personally, I would favor keeping them as they are for now and upgrade the road going north.

Originally, the I-69/I-465 south interchange and a couple of miles of I-69 were planned as a Major Moves project (i.e.the 2012-205 timeframe), but that plan seems to have been dropped.

As for the proposed I-67 (or US 31), I hope they incrementally upgrade it by building interchanges at old SR 47 (236th St.), SR 28, SR 18, SR 218, and Peru. If one interchange could be knocked out a year, the road would be much safer. With only 7 traffic lights remaining, I fear more of those high speed tragic rear-end collisions like the road has already seen. A slow, steady upgrade would not break the bank.

As for US 31 itself, north of Peru, the road is modern, and I agree would be relatively cheap to upgrade. Mainly just a few interchanges, bridges, and cul-de-sacs. From Peru south to old SR 47 , there are a lot of driveways and businesses on the road. South of Kokomo, one side of US 31 is the still the old wavy carriageway  which would probably need to rebuilt to modern standards.

The other two top priority roads are I-265 and the Illiana Toll Road, of course. Presumably these would be funded thru public-private partnerships.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 22, 2012, 08:50:03 PM
Miscellaneous I-69-related links of interest:

EDITORIAL: Daniels' innovative Major Moves plan brought roads, jobs (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/may/16/daniels-innovative-major-moves-plan-brought-jobs/) (Evansville Courier Press)

One of the I-69 contractors has a web-cam link with a fairly cool time lapse option.
Fred Weber, Inc. (http://www.fredweberinc.com/projects/indiana-i-69-project)

Another contractor has a few pictures:
T.J. Lambrecht Construction (http://www.tjlambrecht.com/i69_1011_db.asp)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 23, 2012, 03:47:23 PM
I would favor closing them since Bloomington didn't and doesn't want I-69. Then to open them I would force Bloomington to pay double the price. Hard core yes but it's Bloomington and they deserve to be jacked up.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 23, 2012, 03:49:46 PM
Like the accidents on the Watkins in KC at Gregory BLVD. Many have died at that light.

I agree I-69 is the top priority in the state. One interesting thing in the I-69 plans being discussed is whether to rebuild or keep some of the existing SR 37 interchanges in Bloomington. Personally, I would favor keeping them as they are for now and upgrade the road going north.

Originally, the I-69/I-465 south interchange and a couple of miles of I-69 were planned as a Major Moves project (i.e.the 2012-205 timeframe), but that plan seems to have been dropped.

As for the proposed I-67 (or US 31), I hope they incrementally upgrade it by building interchanges at old SR 47 (236th St.), SR 28, SR 18, SR 218, and Peru. If one interchange could be knocked out a year, the road would be much safer. With only 7 traffic lights remaining, I fear more of those high speed tragic rear-end collisions like the road has already seen. A slow, steady upgrade would not break the bank.

As for US 31 itself, north of Peru, the road is modern, and I agree would be relatively cheap to upgrade. Mainly just a few interchanges, bridges, and cul-de-sacs. From Peru south to old SR 47 , there are a lot of driveways and businesses on the road. South of Kokomo, one side of US 31 is the still the old wavy carriageway  which would probably need to rebuilt to modern standards.

The other two top priority roads are I-265 and the Illiana Toll Road, of course. Presumably these would be funded thru public-private partnerships.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: InterstateNG on May 23, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
I would favor closing them since Bloomington didn't and doesn't want I-69. Then to open them I would force Bloomington to pay double the price. Hard core yes but it's Bloomington and they deserve to be jacked up.

You keep posting this idiotic nonsense.  Have you you actually researched whether the citizenry at large cares one way or the other?  Probably not.  Has anyone?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on May 23, 2012, 08:10:18 PM
A vocal minority doesn't want I-69 in Bloomington. And if I recall from earlier in this thread, the amount of people in favor of the highway there actually trumps the number of people against it. As someone who has visited Bloomington and lived there for several summers, there are people there who would love to get to Indianapolis without any stoplights and have no personal problems with the interstate. They are smart to realize that the interstate isn't going to destroy the unique culture of Bloomington. The courthouse square, Kirkwood Avenue, IU and the beautiful scenery aren't going away, and a lot of people in Bloomington get this.

It's just that the other group is louder and will never let the issue die, even long after they use the interstate to get up to Indy without stopping at any stoplights. Even at the meetings that were recently in Bloomington over Section 4 and 5, the media focused on the 20 or so opponents of the highway, while ignoring the larger number of people who were at least okay with the highway or completely in favor of it. You don't sell papers with everyone agreeing.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on May 23, 2012, 11:37:25 PM
I would favor closing them since Bloomington didn't and doesn't want I-69. Then to open them I would force Bloomington to pay double the price. Hard core yes but it's Bloomington and they deserve to be jacked up.

You keep posting this idiotic nonsense.  Have you you actually researched whether the citizenry at large cares one way or the other?  Probably not.  Has anyone?

The Bloomington Metropolitan Planning Organization was attempting to delay/halt construction of I-69 as noted earlier in this thread.  The voting members of MPOs, as far as I know and given my experience with other MPOs, are local elected officials.  Someone had to elect said officials.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 24, 2012, 06:10:47 AM
They are elected officials, but I am not sure I-69 was a dominant election issue in their campaigns - or even an issue raised at all by some members.

I think sentiment is split there. Everyone I have talked to is pro-I-69, but that doesn't mean anything. I think it is clear that the vocal opposition is a very small minority. Many of the activists arrested over the years were not even from Indiana.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 25, 2012, 09:36:48 PM
Interesting video of bridge beams being delivered for I-69:



SR 56/SR 61 interchange with I-69

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on May 26, 2012, 10:49:32 AM
When I-69 opens to Crane, will existing SR 57 be cosigned on I-69 with the existing roadway turned over to the counties, will SR 57 be decommisioned for most of its length, or will SR 57 stay as it is north of SR 68?  Knowing what I do about INDOT, I would be surprised if INDOT wants to maintain the existing road over the long term.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on May 26, 2012, 02:49:14 PM
I may be optomistic, but I think that SR 57 might remain where it is, at least north of SR 68. Honestly, the stretch from I-164 south to US 41 isn't needed much, but the rest can still be a locally-used state highway. There won't be too many exits along I-69, at least initially, so people living along the cooridor will still need to use SR 57 from their closest exit to their homes. That, and local county governments may not want to have to maintain that stretch of highway, this has happened with other state highways that the state has tried to turn over. As an example, I point to SR 46 and I-74 in Southeast Indiana of having a state highway closely follow an interstate and remain a state highway, likewise SR 42 and I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville. Now, as for SR 37 when it becomes Interstate 69, I would expect a decommissioning eventually for that.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 26, 2012, 04:47:27 PM
When I-69 opens to Crane, will existing SR 57 be cosigned on I-69 with the existing roadway turned over to the counties, will SR 57 be decommisioned for most of its length, or will SR 57 stay as it is north of SR 68?  Knowing what I do about INDOT, I would be surprised if INDOT wants to maintain the existing road over the long term.

If you loook at the online INDOT plans, SR 57 will not be co-signed with I-69. If I had to guess, INDOT will offer to turn most of current SR 57 over to local agencies. Also, my guess is that SR 57 north of Elnora will stay. Washington still has that SR 257 spur which might indicate, turning it back there might prove to be difficult, but as INDOT provided funds for the new "gateway" road in Washington near the new I-69 interchange, maybe a deal was made in exchange.

Seeing that the one interchange in Pike County south of Petersburg will not be built initially, Pike County may not be willing to take over any of SR 57. The new interchange might be a bargaining chip.

I may be optomistic, but I think that SR 57 might remain where it is, at least north of SR 68. Honestly, the stretch from I-164 south to US 41 isn't needed much, but the rest can still be a locally-used state highway. There won't be too many exits along I-69, at least initially, so people living along the cooridor will still need to use SR 57 from their closest exit to their homes. That, and local county governments may not want to have to maintain that stretch of highway, this has happened with other state highways that the state has tried to turn over. As an example, I point to SR 46 and I-74 in Southeast Indiana of having a state highway closely follow an interstate and remain a state highway, likewise SR 42 and I-70 from Terre Haute to Mooresville. Now, as for SR 37 when it becomes Interstate 69, I would expect a decommissioning eventually for that.

I agree the part south of I-64 is not consistent with what INDOT generally wants. To me, as SR 57 now is not a busy road, I doubt that INDOT wants to keep it north of SR 68 after I-69 opens.

I would hope SR 37 will end at I-69 in Bloomington. Heck, the SR 37 designation should be pulled from Fishers to Marion and from Fort Wayne to Ohio. That route will never be what it once was. Times have changed.

My vote would be to make the Fishers to Marion part SR 15 and the Fort Wayne to Ohio part SR 14. My vote for Indy to Bloomington beginning ASAP would be for it to become SR 69 and re-designating current SR 69 to something like SR 71 or SR 73. When I-69 is fully complete, SR 69 would disappear (as it should). Just a pipe dream and foray into the fictional realm, I suppose.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on May 27, 2012, 10:54:28 AM
If I-69 is completed all the way down to Evansville, with the Penryville already there and KY taking it seriously, pressure will arise in getting that Ohio River Crossing done even if it requires bonds to be sold to do it.  That seems to be what I hear from others here is the how to get financing to get a crossing built right now.

I like to see two N-S interstates that go from end to end of the Hoosier State and I would imagine that having an Indy to Evansville corridor is needed and would help commerce out a great deal locally within the State.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 09:05:26 PM
More on the funding issues when Major Moves money is spent, but both candidates for governor pledge support for I-69:

As Major Moves money runs out, candidates pledge continued support for I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/may/25/no-headline---ev_interstate69/) (Evansville Coourier-Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: JREwing78 on May 29, 2012, 07:13:02 PM
Here's a radical idea: raise the gas tax! ;-)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on May 30, 2012, 07:47:59 AM
Here's a radical idea: raise the gas tax! ;-)

A radical idea that, while I agree with you, would get you voted out of office.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 30, 2012, 08:50:44 PM
Indiana already has a top ten gas tax.

Yes higher than Wisconsin.

I would rather do away with Davis-Beacon and lower labor rates.

Lower labor rates equal more road projects and yes work.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 30, 2012, 09:03:06 PM
Correct, because Indiana pays sales tax on fuel unlike many states. If gasoline dropped to $2.00 before taxes, Indiana would have lower taxes than Wisconsin.

So what Indiana probably could do is cap the sales tax per gallon and then increase the actual gasoline tax by 3 cents or so. As we will be getting a tax refund because of the budget surplus, I think they could cap it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on May 30, 2012, 09:19:25 PM
Correct, because Indiana pays sales tax on fuel unlike many states. If gasoline dropped to $2.00 before taxes, Indiana would have lower taxes than Wisconsin.

So what Indiana probably could do is cap the sales tax per gallon and then increase the actual gasoline tax by 3 cents or so. As we will be getting a tax refund because of the budget surplus, I think they could cap it.

Why not just earmark the sales tax revenue on fuel sales to INDOT?

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 30, 2012, 09:59:35 PM
Indiana already has a top ten gas tax.

Yes higher than Wisconsin.

I would rather do away with Davis-Beacon and lower labor rates.

Lower labor rates equal more road projects and yes work.

Lower labor rates equal less qualified workers making poorer quality roads.
Of course I've yet to see any conservatives offer to take a paycut to help profitablity either.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 30, 2012, 10:02:43 PM
Correct, because Indiana pays sales tax on fuel unlike many states. If gasoline dropped to $2.00 before taxes, Indiana would have lower taxes than Wisconsin.

So what Indiana probably could do is cap the sales tax per gallon and then increase the actual gasoline tax by 3 cents or so. As we will be getting a tax refund because of the budget surplus, I think they could cap it.

Why not just earmark the sales tax revenue on fuel sales to INDOT?

Mike

Money is fungible, but not every legislature or administration would have the commitment to spend money on roads. Also, wouldn't it be hard to predict how much sales tax you'd get because gasoline prices wouldn't be known? As the price of gas goes up, taxes also go up so it is more painful on us when oil prices are high. A cap would be best, IMO.

I think it would be easier to know how much the gas tax is. Also, I think the Indiana constitution dicates excess money beyond a certain amount must be refunded to the taxpayers.

BTW, I got my information on taxes from IndianaGasPrices.com (http://www.indianagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx) so I hope that is right.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 30, 2012, 10:21:15 PM
If Davis-Beacon doesn't go away.

Then the so called high quality workers will be sitting UNEMPLOYED as the state doesn't have money to pay them 40 bucks a hour.

My theory is lower the labor rate but increase the work load. Thus no reduction in pay but a increase of road projects.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 30, 2012, 10:29:46 PM
If Davis-Beacon doesn't go away.

Then the so called high quality workers will be sitting UNEMPLOYED as the state doesn't have money to pay them 40 bucks a hour.

My theory is lower the labor rate but increase the work load. Thus no reduction in pay but a increase of road projects.

There are as many highway construction workers making $40 a hour as you are.
Try again.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: JREwing78 on May 30, 2012, 11:00:19 PM
Michigan has the same issue - they have a 18 cent tax going straight to roads, but there's a 6% sales tax on it as well that goes straight to the general fund.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on June 02, 2012, 10:43:45 AM
Found this this morning with a few pictures in the article about the bridges over the Patoka River on the Pike/Daviess county line. This is one area I really haven't seen under construction, but things are moving along over there.

http://dubois-pikecounty.14news.com/news/transportation/60307-i-69-patoka-river-bridge-project-progressing
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 13, 2012, 10:53:27 PM
 I-69 Opponents Speak Out Against Bridge Construction (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-opponents-speak-bridge-construction-31531/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 21, 2012, 07:47:04 PM
A good article from the Evansville Courier and Press:

I-69 begins to take shape (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/jun/20/i-69-puzzle-takes-shape/)
Title: NPR's "All Things Considered" on Indiana's I-69 Extension
Post by: Grzrd on June 21, 2012, 08:51:57 PM
CARR also said Indiana is the only I-69 state going with a new terrain route. Besides the fact the fairly long SR 37 portion is not new terrain, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana do have significant new terrain routes. I am not sure about Texas. Kentucky's routing is mostly on existing roadways except around Henderson.

NPR's All Things Considered (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/154852321/in-indiana-a-u-s-superhighway-may-hit-the-skids) currently has a recording of a report about Indiana's I-69 extension on its webite.  The print version of the report currently has a correction of the distance from Bloomington to Indianapolis, correcting it to 40 miles from 90 miles.  The print version also contains the following statement:

Quote
When complete, Interstate 69 would pass through eight states and provide a direct route through the Midwest between Canada and Mexico.
Most of the states along the route are upgrading existing roads to interstate standards. Indiana, in contrast, must build almost 100 miles of entirely new road for its portion of the project.

I wonder where the NPR reporter obtained her underlying "facts" for the report?  :hmm:  Is another correction in order?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 21, 2012, 09:01:55 PM
CARR also said Indiana is the only I-69 state going with a new terrain route. Besides the fact the fairly long SR 37 portion is not new terrain, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana do have significant new terrain routes. I am not sure about Texas. Kentucky's routing is mostly on existing roadways except around Henderson.

NPR's All Things Considered (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/154852321/in-indiana-a-u-s-superhighway-may-hit-the-skids) currently has a recording of a report about Indiana's I-69 extension on its webite.  The print version of the report currently has a correction of the distance from Bloomington to Indianapolis, correcting it to 40 miles from 90 miles.  The print version also contains the following statement:

Quote
When complete, Interstate 69 would pass through eight states and provide a direct route through the Midwest between Canada and Mexico.
Most of the states along the route are upgrading existing roads to interstate standards. Indiana, in contrast, must build almost 100 miles of entirely new road for its portion of the project.

I wonder where the NPR reporter obtained her underlying "facts" for the report?  :hmm:  Is another correction in order?

Most likely, the facts came from CARR. That is usually their source. In addition to that, another part is misleading:

Quote
Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels has been fast-tracking construction. But when he leaves office in January, the road will be less than half-finished — and money for the project is running out.

Huh? So if they are talking about the new part in Indiana, over 90 miles will be under construction by September. Approximately 20 miles of I-164 which will be I-69 are complete and open to traffic. Approximately 20 miles of I-465 which will carry are complete and open to traffic. That adds up to 130 miles of the extension with 40 miles left (or 287 miles if you include current I-69). The remaining part from Bloomington to Indy will most likely be more expensive than the part being built now, and the Ohio River bridge will indeed be very expensive; but they need to define what is meant by "less than half finished".
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on June 28, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
The foolishness never ends in Bloomington:

EDITORIAL: Bloomington effort to halt I-69 project no longer realistic (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/jun/27/bloomington-effort-to-halt-i-69-project-no/) (from Evansville Courier & Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on July 01, 2012, 10:57:38 PM
I don't know if anyone else has seen this yet, but Bing maps is showing another section of I-69 in Indiana in the ROW-clearance stage:

See:  http://binged.it/OWsE2r

This is about halfway between Bloomington and the current end of the construction at US 231 a short distance east of Elnora, IN.

Enjoy!

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 01, 2012, 11:17:10 PM
I would guess these were taken in September of last year as there is some color in the trees and the new US 231 road was opened late last year or early this year. Since last fall, a contract for a four mile stretch from US 231 east was also let which does not seem to be shown. That might be the one where clearing was done, but then construction was halted due to the bats nesting in the area. On July 11, the first contract into Monroe County (where Bloomington is) should be let.

This map (http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Map_PA_DEIS_SHT10.pdf) shows the connector road from SR 45/SR 445 to I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 01, 2012, 11:21:46 PM
Not sure if you noticed it, but the latest signage plans for the interchange with Interstate 69 and SR 445 shows that the trumpet interchange is being changed to one with roundabouts at each end.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 01, 2012, 11:32:35 PM
Where are those maps? On the INDOT online plans page?

That would be a good change, but you would think the official I-69 site would have the latest plans... or maybe not.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 02, 2012, 08:58:47 PM
I found the diagram in the signage plans on the contracts page that you've shown me before. The contract number should be IR-33739, found in the Vincennes District in July 2012, but it shows that the interchange has two roundabouts that connect the new segment of SR 445 to I-69. And I do agree that it is a better change for that interchange than the trumpet that would have taken up more space for what would not be a well-traveled interchange.

Interestingly, there is no mention of SR 45 or 54 on the signage for Exit 104, which is SR 445. Both Exit 98 (SR 45) and 104 (SR 445) have no control cities, which is probably understandable given the rural nature of eastern Greene County, but I would have thought that maybe Bloomfield should be mentioned on southbound I-69 approaching SR 445, but that's just me. The signage plans also show that the next interchange (mentioned with a "Next Exit in XX miles sign) after Exit 104 is in ten miles, which means that the SR 37 interchange should be Exit 114. The letting for that segment of highway isn't until October so I would assume that those signs won't be avaliable to view until then.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 02, 2012, 09:41:37 PM
Good catch on the plan changes. I agree that Bloomfield (and maybe Linton) should be on the SR 445 sign. I don't see why Cincinnati wouldn't be on the SR 45 sign either. BTW, are plans posted for the section that actually has the SR 45 interchange?

Like you said, it looks like the plans are posted less than a month before the letting so it will could be in late September (but likely October) before we see details of the SR 37 interchange.

Now if they could build the Fullerton Pike interchange and build the Vernal Pike, Tapp Rd., and Rockport Road overpasses on SR 37, that would put I-69 effectively through Bloomington. I know they want to rebuild the SR 45 and SR 48 interchanges, but I wish they would push those plans back in favor of building further north.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 02, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
I thought the same about Cincinnati, unless they were worried about confusion with Cincinnati, Ohio, there is a sign on SR 37 at US 50 in Bedford that is for "that" Cincinnati. The SR 45 interchange plans are a bit earlier to the SR 445 interchange, March or April I believe. As for the interchange, it will be a simple diamond, which is all that is really needed for that location.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 02, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
Indiana already has a top ten gas tax.

Yes higher than Wisconsin.

I would rather do away with Davis-Beacon and lower labor rates.

Lower labor rates equal more road projects and yes work.

Lower labor rates equal more poverty as well.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 02, 2012, 10:06:03 PM
I thought the same about Cincinnati, unless they were worried about confusion with Cincinnati, Ohio, there is a sign on SR 37 at US 50 in Bedford that is for "that" Cincinnati. The SR 45 interchange plans are a bit earlier to the SR 445 interchange, March or April I believe. As for the interchange, it will be a simple diamond, which is all that is really needed for that location.

Wow, is there a Cincinnati in Ohio too??

OK, so back to I-69 and Bloomington. The paid subscription-only Bloomington Herald Times has a guest editorial by Tom Tokarski, the #1 I-69 opponent and media darling. I don't subscribe, but anyone can read the comments here (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wNy8wMi9kaWdpdGFsY2l0eS5pLTY5LXN5bWJvbGl6ZXMtcmVja2xlc3Mtd2FzdGUtYnktZ292ZXJubWVudC5zdG8=).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on July 02, 2012, 10:19:50 PM
I would rather do away with Davis-Bacon and lower labor rates

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0844cqtle1qetpw3o1_400.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 03, 2012, 09:39:40 PM
INDOT started to build a new interchange on I-69 in Fort Wayne at Union Chapel Road on the north side of town. My daughter who lives in Fort Wayne, asked an insightful question about it: what exit number will it have? So I looked at the online plans and it is supposed to be exit 117.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/Union_Chapel_Rd.jpg)

At the same time, the exits under construction on the new section down south are to be 27, 33, 46, 62, 76, 87, 98, 104, and 114. Oddly, I don't see any numbering conflicts, but why wouldn't INDOT take the opportunity to update the northern section exit numbers when the new section opens? I think I read the old section exits will be bumped up by 184 so Union Chapel Road should be exit 301.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on July 03, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
I am suspecting that it may be several years before they change the exit numbers north of Indianapolis.  It would be more confusing to have a single exit with a much bigger number than the sorrounding exits.  I figure at some point INDOT will let a single contract or series of contracts to update the I-69 exit numbers north of Indianapolis all at once.

I remember when all of the exit numbers in Georgia switched from consecutive to mileage-based back in early 2000, it was done all over the state in a very short period of time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 03, 2012, 10:35:42 PM
I guess my point, not clearly made, was to make the change for the entire northern section numbers to coincide with the opening of the southern section.

BTW, there will be one duplication of exit numbers on I-69: exit 46. Both SR 56/SR 61 in Petersburg and US 40 on I-465 will have that number. That is similar to I-74 which has two exits 4, 8, and 52 because of the I-465 concurrency. Nothing you can do about those.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 04, 2012, 08:11:26 PM
Luckily, I just pretend that I-74 doesn't exist along I-465 and that problem magically goes away. Speaking of I-74, which will be multiplexed with I-465 and I-69 from Exit 4 east to Exit 49, does anyone else think that six lanes may not be enough for that highway when I-69 is finally finished up to Indy?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 04, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
I have to admit I never really thought about that. First, until I-69 is complete from Indy to Bloomington, I don't see a lot more traffic coming up, but there will be some for sure. When it is close to complete up to Indy, the capacity needs to be considered. We assume I-69 will go up the east leg of 465, but the eight lane sections up the west and north legs would make for less widening. Not sure, but I know it would be quite expensive to widen the south and east legs.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 07, 2012, 09:01:49 AM
Below is an article about the drought in Indiana that states that it could affect I-69 construction in that there may not be enough water to make the concrete to pave miles of roadway.

Washington residents join Daviess County dwellers in being asked to conserve water (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=167&ArticleID=65619) (Indiana Economic Digest)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 09, 2012, 09:46:09 AM
I know this is a touchy subject but in return for lowering labor rates from davis-beacon. I would want all the money saved to go to new road projects. So workers would not lose money as they replace higher pay projects with more lower pay jobs. I would hope to end the boom-bust cycle for workers. Create a even workload with more projects to handle.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on July 09, 2012, 06:35:09 PM
I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 09, 2012, 08:06:31 PM
The SR 68 to US 231 sections are scheduled to open in late 2012 - assuming they can get the paving done. That is approximately 67 miles if I remember correctly.

Currently, there are two contracts that have been let between US 231 and SR 37. There are four more to go with the next letting on Wednesday, 7/11. The remaining three will be let in August, September, and October. So by the end of this year, it should be open or under construction from just north of the Ohio River (I-164) to SR 37 in Bloomington.

Proposed plans for section 5 from Bloomington up to Martinsville are being presented for public comment now.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on July 09, 2012, 09:32:16 PM
I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?

Also, about a week ago, now on the previous page, I posted a link to a Bing maps aerial image showing ROW clearance going on about halfway between the current end of the construction at US 231 (a short distance east of Elnora, IN) and Bloomington.

(My 1000th post in AARoads!   :cool: )

Mike
Title: I-69 Exits to be Renumbered in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on July 09, 2012, 09:51:38 PM
I guess my point, not clearly made, was to make the change for the entire northern section numbers to coincide with the opening of the southern section.

This article (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120709/LOCAL0102/207090337/Fishers-prepares-new-designations-69-exits) indicates that INDOT will renumber the northern exits and mile markers beginning this year:

Quote
The town of Fishers is partnering with the Indiana Department of Transportation to talk with the public this month about renumbering all of I-69's exits starting this year.
The plan stems from the completion of the highway's extension through southern Indiana, and means that all of the exits along the northern part of the route will need to be renumbered, according to a press release from the town of Fishers. When completed, the new I-69 will have added 184 miles to is already existing route. The new numbering system will start at the southern border and proceed north.
Mile markers will also be updated along with the exit numbers. The state will use both the old and new numbers for a number of years before removing the old ones entirely.
The meeting starts at 8 a.m. on July 26 in the Fishers Train Station Meeting Room.

Here's the Fishers Chamber of Commerce press release (http://www.fisherschamber.com/cwt/external/wcpages/wcnews/newsarticledisplay.aspx?ArticleID=745) about the upcoming July 26 meeting to explain the changes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 09, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
Interesting, now we are getting somewhere in the eventual renumbering of the exits. A quick look of the comments page of that section, one person says they ought to number the exits to the SOUTH of Indianapolis using negative numbers. I'm sure anyone here would have a field day with that, but has anyone actually thought of that before? Of course, the majority of people aren't as savvy with highway terminology or the way the whole thing works, so I'm not holding too much against anyone.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 09, 2012, 10:01:25 PM
You gotta love that idea of negative numbered exits.

So hopefully Union Chapel Road will be exit 301 and not ever exit 117 as shown in the INDOT plans.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 09, 2012, 10:07:45 PM
That would be a waste of signage. On another note, I know that most of the signage at the interchanges from Grant County north to Michigan are rather new, I hope they just replace the tabs and not the whole sign. On that note, I also know that there is still button copy signage in Madison and Delaware Counties, will these be going away?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 09, 2012, 10:16:14 PM
The SR 68 exit on I-69 was exit 22 when it opened because it used I-164 numbering. Last time I was down there, the exit number tab was blank so I'll assume they will do that if they can. South of SR 22 the signs are older so that will be interesting.

The SR 9/SR 109 interchange in Anderson (exit 26) was button copy last time I was there. I don't remember if any others were.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rickmeck on July 10, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 10, 2012, 10:13:49 AM
The button-copy signage still on Interstate 69 begins at Exit 22 (SR 9/67) and continued past Exit 45 (US 35/SR 28) and all the way to the Delaware-Grant county line, where newer signage took over at the next exit. There are a couple or so signs that aren't button-copy that were installed in that stretch to replace signage that I assume was damaged, but that's it.,

Also, the Indianapolis Star article mentioned that the exits would have both the old and the new numbers mentioned for an uspecified amount of time. So there very much should be a "Old Exit XX" sign nearby. I suppose more will be mentioned at the meeting in Fishers later on and then we should know more about the plans for this. In one other news, I took a look at more signage plans online last night and they have some new signs for the upcoming Exit 114 with SR 37 on I-69. It only shows the advanced signage at the two and one mile points, but it will be Exit 114 and it will be for SR 37 to Bloomington and Bedford.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Takumi on July 10, 2012, 10:52:30 AM
I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?

Virginia had "Old Exit XX" on the former Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike for a short time after the exit renumbering in the early '90s.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: qguy on July 10, 2012, 02:01:20 PM
I wonder when the exits are renumbered, if they will have a tab that says, "Former exit XX." I have seen this before, though I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia or Georgia?

PennDOT (as well as the PTC on the Turnpike) did that when it switched from sequential to mileage-based numbering in the early 00s. Here's an example on I-95 northbound, just north of Philadelphia:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.132921,-74.887018&spn=0.000033,0.016415&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.132812,-74.891085&panoid=2C62WIVgiKv3uHYEtPLjLA&cbp=12,46.92,,0,-3.14
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on July 11, 2012, 07:39:45 PM
I just checked out the lower part of I-69 north of Evansville. How far up to Bloomington does construction currently go? Is the entire corridor shown in OpenStreetMaps visible or have parts not been started yet?

Also, about a week ago, now on the previous page, I posted a link to a Bing maps aerial image showing ROW clearance going on about halfway between the current end of the construction at US 231 (a short distance east of Elnora, IN) and Bloomington.

(My 1000th post in AARoads!   :cool: )

Mike
Sounds like by the time I get back to Indiana, I'll be able to drive half and tour the other half... good deal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 13, 2012, 07:41:38 PM
In the letting this week, bids were taken for the section going from Carmichael Road to the Monroe County line. The lowest bid (from Gohmann Construction) was for about $90M which is over the engineer's estimate. The highest bid was for something like $125M. So the period where all sections had bids lower than estimates is apparently over.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ssummers72 on July 14, 2012, 06:35:50 AM
FYI:

Hearings are starting on the exit renumbering North of Indianapolis on I-69:
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120713/NEWS/120719791/-1/LIVING

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 14, 2012, 05:08:38 PM
Another news article on the exit renumbering, this time coming from Angola:

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=66&ArticleID=65689&TM=61113.34

Interestingly, the article says that INDOT is starting at Mile Marker 200 at current Exit 0, not 184. I'm not sure if this is an error by the newspaper itself or we are missing something with the highway. In any case, I measured the distance from roughly the spot where Exit 114 will be at Rockport Road and SR 37 (not the exact location mind you, but close) to Exit 37 off of I-465 and it comes up to 182 miles (meaning that the 184 theory is more likely correct.) But whatever.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on July 14, 2012, 05:41:09 PM
Using the construction/proposed routing mapped in OSM, I get 183.3 miles from the south end of I-164 to the south end of I-69. I agree that 200 is bogus.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 14, 2012, 06:05:47 PM
And the distance from where I-69 will head south from the current I-164 to the Ohio is slightly more than the distance west to US 41. That would make it around 184.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on July 14, 2012, 06:20:29 PM
Anyone want to contact INDOT and get some bureaucrat a reprimand for thinking?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ClarkE on July 14, 2012, 07:00:23 PM
I drove past the future US 231/I-69 interchange a few weeks ago, and they were placing the concrete beams for the overpass above 231 then.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 14, 2012, 07:06:19 PM
Anyone want to contact INDOT and get some bureaucrat a reprimand for thinking?

INDOT is fairly decent about responding to questions. Sometimes even their resident highway historian will answer (like when I asked if US 641 ever entered Indiana as shown on some maps). Anyway, the 184 mile distance has been published by INDOT for quite a while so I will assume it is correct.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tidecat on July 14, 2012, 07:08:53 PM
I suspect that the addition of 200 to the existing exit numbers is being done to make things easier on motorists and businesses-it's easier on people when something is off exit 154/354 than exit 154/338.  The 16 mile "gap" will likely be hidden within I-465 and I-74's exit numbering.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on July 14, 2012, 11:02:14 PM
Getting a rough measurement on Google Maps from the IN 37 interchange, the difference in mileage between going on the east side of the beltway versus the west side is around 12 miles.  The actual difference is likely closer to 13 or 14 and I'm not sure where the I-69 interchange will be.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 14, 2012, 11:12:38 PM
The plans I saw showed I-69 coming in about a mile west of SR 37/Harding St. Originally, that interchange was supposed to be built as part of Major Moves.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on July 15, 2012, 04:15:05 PM
I suspect that the addition of 200 to the existing exit numbers is being done to make things easier on motorists and businesses-it's easier on people when something is off exit 154/354 than exit 154/338.  The 16 mile "gap" will likely be hidden within I-465 and I-74's exit numbering.

That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.  If INDOT wanted to, they could probably even officially route 69 the other way around 465 (around the northeast corner) while signing it the way it is supposed to go (around the southeast corner) which would be about 11 miles longer, giving 195 or 196 instead of 184 miles added, much closer to the 200.

They couldn't get away with it easily if 69 had its own exit numbers, but since the 465 numbers will dominate, it seems like a natural way to ease the trouble of the exit number changes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on July 15, 2012, 05:28:47 PM
That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.
MUTCD says nothing about starting at zero, but I think it frowns upon deliberate milepost equations.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on July 15, 2012, 05:40:10 PM
That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.
MUTCD says nothing about starting at zero, but I think it frowns upon deliberate milepost equations.

It does seem that adding a nice round number like 200 that is close to the offset would make it a lot easier for not only those living and working nearby and those who would have to have promotional/advertising materials redone to reflect new exit numbers in directions, but easier for everyone using the road who might have an old map.  Adding 200 to the old number is something that can be done instantly and would ease driver confusion, while adding 184 is less easy while trying to drive and navigate.  It seems justifiable in the name of making things easier for the motorists to handle the change.  (And for those who estimate distances by difference in exit number, they will estimate 16 miles too long the first time they do it, but the terrible traffic on 465 at many times of day will eat up any of the theoretical savings in distance anyway, so it will all wash out.  :D  )
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 15, 2012, 09:15:25 PM
Until I hear about the meetings taking place in Fishers and Fort Wayne and what INDOT's plans on the renumbering are, I'm not going to take the 200 thing too seriously. In any case, I don't really see the point of making it easier while sacrificing logic and pretending that 16 miles of highway exists when it doesn't, but that's just me. In any case, there will be an old number and a new number, and whether or not you have to subtract 184 or 200 makes little difference as far as I'm personally concerned. As long as I know what the new number is I am alright. People aren't going to be interested in what kind of math you have to do to get to the number, they are just going to want the number itself.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on July 16, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.
MUTCD says nothing about starting at zero, but I think it frowns upon deliberate milepost equations.
Numbering is to be done based on mileage. There's nothing in there saying that equations are prohibited - otherwise you'd have a hell of a time renumbering every time a bypass is built or a kink straightened when a road is slowly upgraded to freeway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on July 16, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.
MUTCD says nothing about starting at zero, but I think it frowns upon deliberate milepost equations.
Numbering is to be done based on mileage. There's nothing in there saying that equations are prohibited - otherwise you'd have a hell of a time renumbering every time a bypass is built or a kink straightened when a road is slowly upgraded to freeway.
Sure. But deliberate equations not caused by realignments? If INDOT is allowed to add 16 miles in the middle of I-69, why can't a state define appropriate equations to keep sequential numbers? :)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ljwestmcsd on July 16, 2012, 08:45:17 PM
The mileage on I-64 east of Lexington, KY is off slightly from that west of Lexington, but it's hidden by I-75, so there's precedence for this.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on July 16, 2012, 08:47:56 PM
That is much easier indeed--I hope that the Feds don't cause trouble with it somehow.
MUTCD says nothing about starting at zero, but I think it frowns upon deliberate milepost equations.
Numbering is to be done based on mileage. There's nothing in there saying that equations are prohibited - otherwise you'd have a hell of a time renumbering every time a bypass is built or a kink straightened when a road is slowly upgraded to freeway.
Sure. But deliberate equations not caused by realignments? If INDOT is allowed to add 16 miles in the middle of I-69, why can't a state define appropriate equations to keep sequential numbers? :)
So the distance between Exit 2 and 3 on MA I-90 would be one mile by signage, because each tenth-mile sign is 3 miles apart?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on July 16, 2012, 09:31:18 PM
When Interstate 85 was realigned around Greensboro, NC, it increased the mileage of I-85 by three, but the exit numbers beyond the new alignment were left unchanged. So the I-69 200 mile addition would not be the first time exit numbers were fudged on the system.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 16, 2012, 09:44:21 PM
Interesting news out of Daviess County today,

http://washtimesherald.com/breakingnews/x1447686110/NEW-Pilot-okay-plane-able-to-land-on-I-69

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on July 16, 2012, 09:45:19 PM
The mileage on I-64 east of Lexington, KY is off slightly from that west of Lexington, but it's hidden by I-75, so there's precedence for this.

Not really. There is an approximate eight-mile overlap. I-64's exits for I-75 are 75 (northern split) and 83 (southern split). I-75's exits for I-64 are 111 (southern split) and 118 (northern split). There's a one-mile difference, but milepoint placement on I-75 in relation to the exits is probably the reason for that.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 17, 2012, 10:18:45 AM
Road geeking brought to a new level................

http://washtimesherald.com/breakingnews/x1447686549/Plane-lands-safely-on-I-69-construction-zone
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on July 17, 2012, 12:16:13 PM
Speaking of the I-69 Extension, I noticed this morning that Google Earth has updated its photography to show the I-69 construction north to Petersburg.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mobilene on July 17, 2012, 01:02:15 PM
Here's the thing I don't get. In Indiana, we tend to call an exit by the road it exits onto.  "Take the 96th St. exit" or "Take the SR 37 exit" or whatever.  When Indiana went from sequential to mile-based exit numbers a bunch of years ago, it was met with a collective ho-hum statewide.  So in a big way, imho, the average Indiana traveler couldn't care less about exit numbers. -Jim
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 17, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
I thought when Indiana added exit numbers in the late 1970s or early 1980s, they were mileage-based. I don't remember them being sequential except on the Toll Road.

Either way, mileage-based means just that. If I am 184 miles away from the Ohio River, I would prefer to know that. Once you change it to a "close enough for Government work" based system you lose that little convenience. I assume the mile markers will also match the exit numbers, right? What a mess that would be if they were different. I guess the fact they would be doing it north of Indy and not down south is better than starting that creative little system further south, but I still don't like the idea.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mobilene on July 17, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe you're right about that ... I grew up along the Toll Road, and when it changed to mileage-based exit numbers, I must have assumed the whole state's Interstate system went along at the same time.

I guess I also assume that people notice mile markers and can interpret them.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 17, 2012, 07:48:39 PM
I agree, they can interpret them - until they are no longer accurate on I-69. Then none of us will be able to unless we remember to subtract 16.

As for the Toll Road, I think that renumbereing happened a few years after the rest of the freeway exits were numbered.

Speaking of mileage-based exit numbers, who remembers these?
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I94-Millburg-Coloma-2.JPG)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 17, 2012, 08:14:33 PM
Here's the thing I don't get. In Indiana, we tend to call an exit by the road it exits onto.  "Take the 96th St. exit" or "Take the SR 37 exit" or whatever.  When Indiana went from sequential to mile-based exit numbers a bunch of years ago, it was met with a collective ho-hum statewide.  So in a big way, imho, the average Indiana traveler couldn't care less about exit numbers. -Jim

While I agree that this is true, when I frequent the I-69 corridor, I usually do call Exit 5 as Exit 5, since SR 37/116th Street isn't as quick for me to say. Likewise, Exit 10 is usually just Exit 10, that and saying Campus Parkway/Southeastern Parkway is a mouthful, or SR 238 for those who don't keep track of the latest highway decommissionings. Then again, I will get off at the 82nd Street exit or the 96th Street exit.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rickmeck on July 18, 2012, 03:52:29 AM
Good heavens. Are people really that stupid? Post a "former exit number" sign on the new exit number and be done with it. Is there really a compelling argument for the 200 mile idea? It has worked in other states, why not Indiana? Geez.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 18, 2012, 06:41:53 AM
I assume the compelling argument is that it simplifies things albeit at the expense of accuracy. Exit 112 become exit 312 so maybe INDOT can change only one digit on every highway sign. Additionally, people reading commercial signs, publications, or web pages that haven't been updated would more likely be able to figure things out. I really can't think of any other reason. That said, I don't like the idea.

I am not sure about the "other states" comment. Other states have gone from sequential exit numbers to mileage-based exit numbers. How many times have Interstates been extended south or west like this thereby requiring numbering changes? I can only think of I-26 in NC. What does make this different than other situations is that there will be a gap in the middle where I-69 mileage will not be used for exit numbers no matter what.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on July 18, 2012, 07:41:21 AM
Either way, mileage-based means just that. If I am 184 miles away from the Ohio River, I would prefer to know that. Once you change it to a "close enough for Government work" based system you lose that little convenience.

I agree.  I'm always using mile markers to know how much distance I have to go and from that estimate how much time it will take me.  Everybody heading south down I-69 is going to get to Evansville about 15 minutes later than they were expecting.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on July 18, 2012, 06:07:10 PM
Why don't they just take out their 9/16 socket and unbolt 2 nuts and replace the signs? Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on July 18, 2012, 06:44:34 PM
Either way, mileage-based means just that. If I am 184 miles away from the Ohio River, I would prefer to know that. Once you change it to a "close enough for Government work" based system you lose that little convenience.

I agree.  I'm always using mile markers to know how much distance I have to go and from that estimate how much time it will take me.  Everybody heading south down I-69 is going to get to Evansville about 15 minutes later than they were expecting.

Actually, they will get there 15 minutes earlier, because the 16 miles don't exist and won't be traveled.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on July 18, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
Either way, mileage-based means just that. If I am 184 miles away from the Ohio River, I would prefer to know that. Once you change it to a "close enough for Government work" based system you lose that little convenience.

I agree.  I'm always using mile markers to know how much distance I have to go and from that estimate how much time it will take me.  Everybody heading south down I-69 is going to get to Evansville about 15 minutes later than they were expecting.
a) Sooner, not later
b) 99.5% of people aren't going to notice/care if Exit 200 is actually 184 miles from the border. Also, most people from NE of Indy aren't continuing SW of Indy on 69, no matter what CANAMEX proponents would have you believe. Finally, this isn't about the ease of converting exit numbers, since many are button copy anyway, but rather the ease of converting people who have had these exit numbers for decades. It's not like sequential to mile based, where there's no way to do it cleanly.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on July 18, 2012, 06:47:04 PM
I agree, they can interpret them - until they are no longer accurate on I-69. Then none of us will be able to unless we remember to subtract 16.

As for the Toll Road, I think that renumbereing happened a few years after the rest of the freeway exits were numbered.

Speaking of mileage-based exit numbers, who remembers these?
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I94-Millburg-Coloma-2.JPG)

Michigan's first numbered exits- late 1960s, with the green tabs not appearing until sign replacement time. I lived just south of exit 190 back then.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 18, 2012, 07:26:42 PM
Yeah, exactly. I was disappointed when the green tabs came along.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 18, 2012, 07:29:34 PM
INDOT: I-69 extension should open by year’s end (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/07/18/statenews.indot--i-69-extension-should-open-by-year-s-end.sto) (Bloomington Herald Times/associated Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on July 19, 2012, 05:35:42 PM
I agree.  I'm always using mile markers to know how much distance I have to go and from that estimate how much time it will take me.  Everybody heading south down I-69 is going to get to Evansville about 15 minutes later than they were expecting.

Wouldn't it be sooner, not later, since the actual distance would be less, not more?

The traffic close to Indy and on the 465 overlap may frequently be bad enough that any time that one "gains" by there being 16 miles less might be lost in slow traffic. 

200 vs. 184 wouldn't be the end of the world.  Heck, remember when what is now I-865 was signed as I-465 miles 900.0 to 905.0?  :P
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 19, 2012, 09:35:33 PM
200 vs. 184 wouldn't be the end of the world.  Heck, remember when what is now I-865 was signed as I-465 miles 900.0 to 905.0?  :P

Maybe there is doubt on the final route through Indy. Back around 2005, some state representative in Perry Twp. (south side of Indy)  tried to introduce a law barring I-69 from there. I don't remember if that passed or not, but I guess there is a chance they don't know 100% where it will go around Indy. In that case, picking some number over 184 starting at current mile 0 in Indy would make a certain amount of sense.

If I-69 would have to avoid Perry Twp., it could intersect I-465 near SR 67 or even with I-70 west of there near the airport.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 19, 2012, 10:21:22 PM
So, perhaps another renumbering may be in order once the entire route of I-69 (including the bridge) will be in order to make certain that the numbering is accurate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on July 20, 2012, 08:08:02 AM
I agree.  I'm always using mile markers to know how much distance I have to go and from that estimate how much time it will take me.  Everybody heading south down I-69 is going to get to Evansville about 15 minutes later than they were expecting.
Wouldn't it be sooner, not later, since the actual distance would be less, not more?

Yes it would, that's what I get for posting before having my morning caffeine.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 23, 2012, 08:17:23 AM
The South Gibson Star-Times and Petersburg Press-Dispatch have posted a video tour of part of the new I-69 in SW IN.  I'm told we'll be driving on it before 2012 ends, but they've got a fair bit of work to do to get us there.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 23, 2012, 11:05:20 AM
I see new cast bridge beams constantly on I-64. At least 10-15 a week. They are putting them out quickly at the casting plant. I think they are for I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Beltway on July 23, 2012, 12:12:07 PM
<<< INDOT: I-69 extension should open by year’s end (Bloomington Herald Times/associated Press) >>>

Is this the whole 70 miles between Evansville and Crane?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 23, 2012, 01:58:57 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Beltway on July 23, 2012, 09:49:55 PM
Yes.

Oh my ... the radical environmentalist/transit groups in Indiana will be having conniption fits !
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 23, 2012, 10:01:14 PM
They are having more fits about the US 231 to SR 37 (i.e. Crane to Bloomington) section that is also under construction. They really thought that would never happen... ever.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Beltway on July 23, 2012, 10:30:51 PM
They are having more fits about the US 231 to SR 37 (i.e. Crane to Bloomington) section that is also under construction. They really thought that would never happen... ever.

When will the section between Bloomington and Indianapolis be under construction?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 24, 2012, 05:12:00 AM
Probably 2015 for Bloomington to Martinsville and 2018 to 2020 for Martinsville north, but that is a guess.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 24, 2012, 09:38:47 AM
I can see this timeline as both candidates for Governor are committed to it. 
Probably 2015 for Bloomington to Martinsville and 2018 to 2020 for Martinsville north, but that is a guess.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 24, 2012, 11:03:42 PM
Assuming a funding source can be found, it's not like we have another toll road to give away. I'm hopeful that stretch will be completed in a short amount of time, but 2015 seems a tad too soon given that they haven't even formalized the location and types of interchanges along that stretch. I can see the Bloomington stretch of SR 37 being done quicker though. Still, 2015 and 2018 to 2020 would be nice timelines.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 07:08:04 AM
I have the same concerns on funding, but 2015 was a date that actually came from INDOT in an article that I believe is listed somewhere in this thread. I have no idea if that statement was thought through well. The next section (section 5) should cost around $250M to $300M which is probably affordable given that much of the funding would be from Federal funds. The final section to Indy will be expensive - especially the I-465 interchange.

Speaking of which the NE side I-69/I-465 rebuild is back on the INDOT web site.

I suppose Indiana could raise gas tax a few pennies or be creative with the gasoline sales tax to increase funding. While tax increases would be a hard sell, a gas tax could be sold as a fee, and the road improvements that came with Major Moves have proved to be popular.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 25, 2012, 04:27:45 PM
OK, INDOT has made it official:  From I-465 north to the MI state line, add 200 to the exit numbers on I-69.  There will be signs with the old and new numbers until at least 2015; the old numbers will all be removed by 2017.  http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1685

By my math, that'll make the final Indiana exit #357 (Indiana 120).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 06:25:42 PM
Actually exit 357 is Lake George Rd., not SR 120.

Coincidentally (or not), the highest exit number in Illinois is exit 357 on I-57.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 07:27:56 PM
With a picture included:

I-69 exits to get higher numbers (http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20120725/LOCAL/120729742) (from Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 25, 2012, 07:38:56 PM
Actually exit 357 is Lake George Rd., not SR 120.

Coincidentally (or not), the highest exit number in Illinois is exit 357 on I-57.

Well, crap ... I knew that ... sorry for the goof on my part.  I do that from time to time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 07:41:55 PM
Yikes, the numbers on the image appear to all be in Clearview - even on the highway markers. I assume that is a mistake on the part of the graphic artist.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 07:52:10 PM
More I-69 news...

From Evansville Courier & Press today: "A federal judge has ruled against opponents of the $3 billion Interstate 69 extension between Indianapolis and Evansville who claimed that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers violated federal law by giving Indiana permission to fill wetlands and reroute streams along part of the 142-mile roadway..."

UPDATE: Environmental groups lose in bid to stop I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/jul/25/environmental-groups-lose-bid-stop-i-69/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on July 25, 2012, 08:18:24 PM
Can I make a speculation here:  What is the chance InDot knows something along the lines of:  There will be an eventual outer belt, most likely partial of Indy for I-69, that just happens to be close to the additional 16 miles.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 25, 2012, 08:35:25 PM
Yikes, the numbers on the image appear to all be in Clearview - even on the highway markers. I assume that is a mistake on the part of the graphic artist.

I'm pretty sure that's just a drawing the J-G put together for the article based on the info from INDOT.  As far as I know, INDOT hasn't used Clearview anywhere ... yet.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 25, 2012, 08:49:37 PM
There are two that I know of...but don't worry, they are likely not from INDOT. The first is on the Indiana Toll Road and that is no longer a INDOT-maintained highway, for now. The second I saw was on US 50 west at the Red Skeleton Bridge with a sign that read the bridge's name along with Wabash River. However, this is clearly an Illinois sign and not INDOT, but is on the Indiana side of the river. Just FYI.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 25, 2012, 08:53:53 PM
There are two that I know of...but don't worry, they are likely not from INDOT. The first is on the Indiana Toll Road and that is no longer a INDOT-maintained highway, for now. The second I saw was on US 50 west at the Red Skeleton Bridge with a sign that read the bridge's name along with Wabash River. However, this is clearly an Illinois sign and not INDOT, but is on the Indiana side of the river. Just FYI.

Yeah, Illinois posted the signs at the Wabash, I knew that ... kind of the way Kentucky did the ones on both sides of the Natcher Bridge over the Ohio on 231.  Kentucky recently replaced the 1-mile BGS for Indiana 66 south of the bridge and it's Clearview, but just says "Tell City-Rockport-Evansville" with NO mention of 66 at all.  (Reminds me, I need to get a pic of that soon.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/US231_SR66_Ky.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 25, 2012, 09:06:00 PM
Yep, I remember that sign too. BTW, where did you see that the 465/69 interchange project is back on. I've been to the project's website (currently focused on the Allisonville Road bridge primarly) and didn't see anything that showed when they were going to do this.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 25, 2012, 09:20:42 PM
Yep, I remember that sign too. BTW, where did you see that the 465/69 interchange project is back on. I've been to the project's website (currently focused on the Allisonville Road bridge primarly) and didn't see anything that showed when they were going to do this.

I-465/I-69 and 82nd Street interchanges (http://www.465-69northeast.in.gov/I69I46582nd.html) from INDOT (465-69 Northeast project)
Title: Indiana I-69 re-numbering
Post by: roadman on July 26, 2012, 02:14:31 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20120726/LOCAL/307269984/1002/LOCAL

Gotta love the DOT's logic here.  "We think that putting up exit numbers that match the exact milepoint would be too confusing for people, so we'll put up a set of numbers that conform neither to the nearest mile marker or GPS units."

Just another example of the ongoing dumbing-down of America.
Title: Re: Indiana I-69 re-numbering
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 26, 2012, 02:52:22 PM
It sounds more like the dumbing-down of INDOT and not America.... 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 26, 2012, 03:22:01 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/US231_SR66_Ky.jpg)

Thanks. You're good! :-)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 26, 2012, 08:20:56 PM
Actually exit 357 is Lake George Rd., not SR 120.

Coincidentally (or not), the highest exit number in Illinois is exit 357 on I-57.



Of course, Interstate 57 in Illinois, actually is 357 miles long. Sorry, I was trying to make a quick jab at INDOT for their lack of logic. Maybe if they routed I-69 along the eastern leg of I-465 AND the northern leg back around to Exit 21 (I-65) and then south on I-65 to downtown and then east on I-70 back to I-465 and then north to Exit 37 to rejoin I-69, at which point the interstate will likely then be at 200 miles. Please don't take any of this seriously though, I'm just coming up with one stupid idea to go along with another, and yes I-69 would be multiplexed with itself for a few miles, along with I-465.

Sad that it is being done this way, but I'll just have to get used to it that way and hold out that that numbers may be reset once again when the bridge over the Ohio River gets completed and forces the rest of the new alignment to change as well.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on July 26, 2012, 09:06:26 PM
The +200 thing isn't the end of the world.  Given that the renumbering will take a few months, with old and new numbers appearing on different sides of the road and with mileposts and BGS not necessarily getting changed at the same time, with GPS and paper maps not necessarily updating for some time, just saying "add 200 to the old number" is a simple way to ease confusion and let motorists spend less time figuring new exit numbers and more time paying attention to the road, especially during the changeover. 

Not all that many people are probably going to be going from the new construction I-69 through the existing I-69 for long distances, regardless of what the Canamex crowd says.

None of the +200 thing would be possible were it not for the overlap with 465.  With congestion on and near 465 and the 55 speed limit, travel times on the overlap are going to make it so that timewise the travel from mile marker 75 to mile marker 275 will probably take close to the time one would expect the first time through if one had never been there before and didn't know about the 16-mile difference.  It's not the end of the world or a sign of dimwittedness--it's a convenience matter.  The worst that happens to anyone is that they arrive sooner or drive less distance than they expected--not later or longer.

 
Yikes, the numbers on the image appear to all be in Clearview - even on the highway markers. I assume that is a mistake on the part of the graphic artist.

They may even be Arial--the numeral 1 looks Arial at least.  They weren't probably going for pattern accuracy in the cartoon, although being "courtesy INDOT", it's too bad it wasn't a little better looking.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ljwestmcsd on July 26, 2012, 09:33:55 PM
I-64 is off about a mile in Lexington, KY, but it's hidden by the I-75 multiplex, so there is a precedence for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on July 27, 2012, 11:35:20 AM
Actually exit 357 is Lake George Rd., not SR 120.

Coincidentally (or not), the highest exit number in Illinois is exit 357 on I-57.



Of course, Interstate 57 in Illinois, actually is 357 miles long. Sorry, I was trying to make a quick jab at INDOT for their lack of logic. Maybe if they routed I-69 along the eastern leg of I-465 AND the northern leg back around to Exit 21 (I-65) and then south on I-65 to downtown and then east on I-70 back to I-465 and then north to Exit 37 to rejoin I-69, at which point the interstate will likely then be at 200 miles. Please don't take any of this seriously though, I'm just coming up with one stupid idea to go along with another, and yes I-69 would be multiplexed with itself for a few miles, along with I-465.

Sad that it is being done this way, but I'll just have to get used to it that way and hold out that that numbers may be reset once again when the bridge over the Ohio River gets completed and forces the rest of the new alignment to change as well.
Does the current 16 mile gap not include the current I-164 mileage?  If it doesn't, then INDOT might have no plans to renumber I-69 ever again and be putting the 0 point at the location of the proposed Ohio River bridge.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 27, 2012, 01:06:58 PM
The 184 miles, I believe, includes everything from I-164's Exit 0 at US 41, north along the new alignment to Bloomington, where it will be Exit 114, and then a roughly 50-mile stretch up SR 37 to I-465 (somewhere in the 160s I think) and then the remainding distance around I-465 to the current southern end of I-69. The new bridge over the Ohio River to the east of US 41 will change the mileage a little, but only by a few miles, not 16. To me, it says something when INDOT had to ask AASHTO (I think) to do the renumbering like the way they are doing it twice. Apparently, the first time AASHTO must have thought, this is stupid.

In the grand scheme of things, yeah, this won't matter too much and I'll get over it, I like logic though so that's where I'm coming from. When I look at how long the highways are across various states, I look for the last exit before the highway crosses into a new state. When I see the last exit on I-75 in Florida is 476 (give or take a few) then I know that the entire highway across Florida is that long. When I see that the last exit on I-69 is 357, you have to be a roadgeek who is into this sort of thing to realize that the real distance is off a bit and is not truly 357 miles long. So, for the sake of convenience, we throw out truth and logic, and that is all I will say on the matter. It is what it is, my life will go on and I won't complain about this anymore.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 27, 2012, 06:05:31 PM
I do not believe it starts at I-164 exit 0. Instead, it would start at the Ohio River where Kentucky and Indiana agreed the new bridge will be. That is a mile or two different so I assume all I-164 exit numbers will also have to change. As evidence, note that the I-69 exit 22 at SR 68 was changed so that sign now has no exit number. Exit 22 was an extension of the I-164 exit numbering system.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 27, 2012, 10:38:23 PM
Using Google Earth's handy-dandy little path ruler, it's ~17.5 miles from the Ohio River up I-164 and I-69 (the last little bit o' the way) to SR 68/57.  That's if the bridge goes in going due south (or close) from current I-164's Exit 5 (SR 662/Covert Ave.), so long term (very long term, most likely), the 68/57 exit will be either #17 or 18.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 27, 2012, 10:45:27 PM
I don't remember exactly where the new bridge is supposed to be, but I think it is near, but west of where the Green River joins the Ohio River. So I think I-69 would turn south a little west of the Green River Rd. interchange on current I-164.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 27, 2012, 11:06:21 PM
I don't remember exactly where the new bridge is supposed to be, but I think it is near, but west of where the Green River joins the Ohio River. So I think I-69 would turn south a little west of the Green River Rd. interchange on current I-164.

That may be closer to correct than what I was thinking.  At most, though, it would add 1 or perhaps 2 miles to my earlier post.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Duke87 on July 29, 2012, 06:03:29 PM
So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on July 29, 2012, 10:04:55 PM
So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.

I think it is fair to say not too many people liked the +200 miles over the +184 miles.

After thinking about it, I think it has some merit. It definitely has a short term benefit, as stated, but it also offers more than that. The final route is assumed to be up SR 37 (exit 114) from Clear Creek until about a mile south of I-465. From there, a new terrain route will connect to I-465. That section would be 49 miles. I-69 would then join I-465 and head east and north (i.e. the east leg) for 16 miles so the current I-69 exit would be at mile marker 184.

Because the final route has not received any approvals, it could end up veering north from Martinsville to I-70. That is not extremely likely, but it is possible, and who knows how many miles that would add. A more likely possibility is that INDOT could route I-69 west, north, then east on I-465 (i.e. use the west leg). That would add 11 miles to the current assumed route, and make the current I-69 exit at mile 195 - or 5 miles off from the 200. The west leg is wider than the east leg, and it goes by the airport.

Because of the certain level of doubt on the routing, the 16 mile slop is probably not a bad idea.

On the new southern section, the first interchange will probably be exit 2 or exit 3 at current I-164 and the way I understand it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on July 29, 2012, 10:19:26 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/US231_SR66_Ky.jpg)

I don't recall there ever being a full guide sign for IN 66 on the Kentucky side of the river.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on July 29, 2012, 11:11:40 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/US231_SR66_Ky.jpg)

I don't recall there ever being a full guide sign for IN 66 on the Kentucky side of the river.

There sure was ... and I think it was INDOT who put it there.  KYTC did the "Ohio River - William H. Natcher Bridge" signs at the ends of the bridge, and INDOT posted the original northbound BGS with the IN 66 shield.  However, at some point in either 2010 or '11, that BGS was knocked down (or blown down in a storm, I'm not sure).  There was just one "naked" post there for a good while before KYTC had this one installed ... minus the IN 66.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: A.J. Bertin on July 30, 2012, 12:30:03 PM
So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.

I think it is fair to say not too many people liked the +200 miles over the +184 miles.

After thinking about it, I think it has some merit. It definitely has a short term benefit, as stated, but it also offers more than that. The final route is assumed to be up SR 37 (exit 114) from Clear Creek until about a mile south of I-465. From there, a new terrain route will connect to I-465. That section would be 49 miles. I-69 would then join I-465 and head east and north (i.e. the east leg) for 16 miles so the current I-69 exit would be at mile marker 184.

Because the final route has not received any approvals, it could end up veering north from Martinsville to I-70. That is not extremely likely, but it is possible, and who knows how many miles that would add. A more likely possibility is that INDOT could route I-69 west, north, then east on I-465 (i.e. use the west leg). That would add 11 miles to the current assumed route, and make the current I-69 exit at mile 195 - or 5 miles off from the 200. The west leg is wider than the east leg, and it goes by the airport.

Because of the certain level of doubt on the routing, the 16 mile slop is probably not a bad idea.

On the new southern section, the first interchange will probably be exit 2 or exit 3 at current I-164 and the way I understand it.

I don't understand why it's necessary to change the existing I-69 exit numbers now. Maybe I missed something, but why don't they just wait until they know the exact routing of the highway before they mess around with changing exit numbers?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rawmustard on July 30, 2012, 02:10:54 PM
I don't understand why it's necessary to change the existing I-69 exit numbers now. Maybe I missed something, but why don't they just wait until they know the exact routing of the highway before they mess around with changing exit numbers?

I think they have to do it because a significant portion will be opening this year. INDOT can't have duplicate reference markers for the same route. I'm sure INDOT waited as long as they could.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 01, 2012, 08:21:18 PM
Quote
BLOOMINGTON, Ind. – More I-69 construction is set to begin in Monroe and Greene counties as the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) has awarded a $90 million contract to Gohmann Asphalt & Construction of Clarksville, Ind...

Third Contract Awarded for I-69 Construction in Section 4 (http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=57978&information_id=117001&type=&syndicate=syndicate) (INDOT)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tidecat on August 01, 2012, 09:05:59 PM
Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on August 01, 2012, 09:14:32 PM
Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
They would probably just have the signs made new. I don't know if Indiana makes the exit tabs integral to the sign or as separate panels, but even if they're separate, a lot of the ones north of Indy are button copy. It's a relatively small-budget item.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on August 01, 2012, 09:48:53 PM
Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
Most of the time old exit numbers just get greened over, not replacing the tab.  Plus the numbers might not match; this isn't sequential, after all.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 01, 2012, 10:17:23 PM
The articles on the renumbering of the exits seem to imply that there will be new signs themselves, so either a full sign replacement or just a tab replacement will be needed. I thought that the tabs were seperate from the signs, but I'm not positive, I need to look closer at one. If that is the case, I could see the tabs being the only thing replaced, especially on the signs in the Fort Wayne area that are still relatively new. As for the button-copy signs (which exist almostly solely along I-69 in Madison and Delaware Counties) I wouldn't be surprised at all if those were completely replaced (it is probably only a matter of time for those to be replaced anyway. My other question would be: what about the services signs, each with the exit numbers on them. Do all of those have to be replaced, or is there a "blueout" for them. I'm probably just thinking too much into some of this. I'm going up to Michigan for a vacation next week, but I'm sure it's probably a bit too early to see any replacements yet.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 01, 2012, 10:25:05 PM
As long as we're guessing, I will chime in. I predict that some tabs will be replaced, but some will have the numbers on them replaced - especially the ones over exit 100. First, INDOT will be doing the work so it is doubtful that entire signs will be replaced.

As for seperate tabs vs. integrated ones, I think it is a mixture. Look at Highway Explorer I-69 page (http://highwayexplorer.com/EndsPage.php?id=3069&section=1).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 02, 2012, 06:53:45 AM
I guess they started the renumbering yesterday. The following articles have pictures of exit 356 and 357.

Crews start renumbering exits on I-69 (http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/indiana/crews-start-renumbering-exits-on-i-69) (WANE)
Re-Numbering Of I-69 Begins (http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/gallery/Re-Numbering-Of-I-69-Begins-164640106.html) (INC)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 02, 2012, 07:17:50 AM
Looks like they just replaced the tabs, although the signs there at Exit "356" aren't too old, so that shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. I'm not sure if I'm digging those "Old Exit XX" signs on that sign gantry though. I guess I will see some new exit sigange on my way up north in a week afterall.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: amroad17 on August 02, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on August 02, 2012, 08:04:42 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if they have a preprinted green out to place over the old number. Button copy signs only have to have the numbers popped off before slapping on the greenout/number decal...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 02, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

I think they do usually use demountable numbers. Occasionally, you see them squeeze new text on signs by moving the text on the bottom down. The I-74/SR 63 eastbound exit is an example of that. The best example is I-69 / SR 68 where "EXIT 22" tab became "EXIT   ".
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 02, 2012, 09:06:17 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

Comparing old picture with new, it seems the tab on exit 357 was replaced.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/Exit357.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ssummers72 on August 02, 2012, 09:14:38 PM
INDOT specs out demountable copy for all overhead signs.

Stephen
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on August 02, 2012, 09:31:56 PM
It's too bad that the new tabs pictured have full borders as if they were separate signs, instead of the old tabs which lacked a bottom white border since it shared that with the main signs, which had squared upper right corners so as to meet the exit tabs.  Guess in a bulk replacement they aren't going to bother with detail like that.

For the blue signs, it would sure be nice if they had a barrel of spare button copy to replace/add new digits.  It can be done--I've seen INDOT do it a couple times before (a distance sign on I-65 listing distance to "I-465 East" was changed to "865" with a button copy numeral 8, and a blue sign north of Indy on 65 got button copy numerals on an otherwise reflective sign.  ODOT has even done button copy addition in the last two years, adding the letter B to some blue service signs (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/309047_10100799507198098_1333265473_n.jpg) at Exit 209 when it was split into an A-B.  They added reflective Bs to reflective-lettered logo signs, and button copy Bs to button copy ones....what attention to detail! I was shocked to see the button copy letter added--I believe it was in 2010, but no earlier that 2009 that it happened.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on August 02, 2012, 09:55:04 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

Comparing old picture with new, it seems the tab on exit 357 was replaced.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/Exit357.jpg)
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 02, 2012, 10:18:41 PM
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.

I was taking a picture of the bug, but just happened to be going by that sign.

Anyway, the 356 and 357 have a full border while the 156 and 157 don't have a bottom border. The new numbers also don't look as tall to me.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on August 02, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.

I was taking a picture of the bug, but just happened to be going by that sign.

Anyway, the 356 and 357 have a full border while the 156 and 157 don't have a bottom border. The new numbers also don't look as tall to me.
Sharp eye. On the other hand, the 3 looks haphazardly placed vertically and horizontally.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 03, 2012, 07:39:47 AM
This headline documented in the Bloomington newspaper introduces us to a matter of utmost concern:

Quote
"If they elevate the highway, there’s a good chance people will drive by and see some nudists..."

I am not sure why INDOT would elevate the highway through a rural area where a nudist camp is .25 miles away, but IF they did...
 

I-69 route worries nudist campers in Monroe County (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/08/03/news.i-69-route-worries-nudist-campers.sto) (Bloomington Herald Times)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on August 03, 2012, 11:13:35 AM
This headline documented in the Bloomington newspaper introduces us to a matter of utmost concern:

Quote
"If they elevate the highway, there’s a good chance people will drive by and see some nudists..."

I am not sure why INDOT would elevate the highway through a rural area where a nudist camp is .25 miles away, but IF they did...
 

I-69 route worries nudist campers in Monroe County (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/08/03/news.i-69-route-worries-nudist-campers.sto) (Bloomington Herald Times)

That article serves as a great advertisement for that particular resort.  And while highway noise may slightly spoil the tranquility, I don't think it will be as bad as imagined.  Gawkers shouldn't be a problem at all, though some of the resorts hiking trails might seem less private…  Actually, the new highway might help attract more customers.  If I lived in central or southern Indiana I'd be looking forward to easier access to what sounds like a very nice place to camp nude.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on August 03, 2012, 11:44:31 AM
I'm going to leave this thought at this, but there is something about that headline....

 :meh:

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on August 03, 2012, 03:35:08 PM
Louisville has gotten a rise out of this road problem also.

http://www.courier-journal.com/viewart/20120803/NEWS01/308030061/Nudist-campers-worry-Interstate-69-will-ruin-their-solitude
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 03, 2012, 08:53:03 PM
I think it is Roselawn in Northwest Indiana that has one, if not several nudist camps, and that town is right next to Interstate 65. All seems to be well up there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: amroad17 on August 03, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

Comparing old picture with new, it seems the tab on exit 357 was replaced.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/Exit357.jpg)
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Looking at the comparison photos, yes the exit tabs do look replaced.  They seem to look smaller or more compressed, possibly due to full border around the exit tab itself.  The 3's look a little haphazardly put on though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 06, 2012, 05:44:58 PM
Indot didnt go with that terrible idea of putting a diamond interchange at sr 37 did they?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 07, 2012, 11:42:38 AM
To answer your question, I'm not sure. I think they are still debating whether or not to do the diamond or the trumpet interchange, though my money is that it will remain a trumpet.

Anyways, on the renumbering front, the conversion of exit numbers in Indianapolis has begun. I took a field trip north on I-69 from Exit 200 up to Exit 203 (I-465 to 96th Street for those playing at home) and saw that on the northbound exits have already had their signs replaced and from my own observations, they are new tabs entirely. The signs themselves were not changed, but since that stretch of highway will be widened as part of the Operation Indy Commute project that won't matter.

The services signs still have the old exit numbers and southbound I-69 from Exit 203 back to 200 haven't been changed yet. In addition, I saw crews in the inside shoulder of I-69 replacing mile markers with several packaged up on the truck (I have never seen them put these things up before so it looked cool.) In any case, I will be heading up to Michigan Thursday night so I'll get to see a full scope as to how this is going on, but word is the signs are being replaced in the Fort Wayne area right now. I'll know more this weekend on how that's going.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on August 07, 2012, 11:47:34 AM
I'm going to leave this thought at this, but there is something about that headline....

 :meh:

Mike

Another thought...

...How long before someone tries to organize a nude roadgeek meet?

 :-o

 :-P

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 07, 2012, 12:03:01 PM

...How long before someone tries to organize a nude roadgeek meet?


what's wrong with that?

it wouldn't be my cup of tea but, given the "unusual interests" thread found elsewhere on this forum, I think it might have enough interest to make it happen.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: qguy on August 07, 2012, 12:49:03 PM
...How long before someone tries to organize a nude roadgeek meet?
what's wrong with that?

Because for most of us this line from Ian Fleming's first James Bond book, Casino Royale, would apply (Bond is referring to another character):
     "Naked, Bond supposed, he would be an obscene object."    :-D



[Edited for clarity 2110 EDT, 8 Aug 12.]
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 07, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
So i-69 is now the longest interstate in indiana? (When it's complete )
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 07, 2012, 05:45:26 PM
It will be. Granted it won't be 357 miles long as the exit numbers imply, but it will still be the longest by about 80 miles.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on August 07, 2012, 07:11:31 PM
I'm going to leave this thought at this, but there is something about that headline....

 :meh:

Mike

Another thought...

...How long before someone tries to organize a nude roadgeek meet?

 :-o

 :-P

Mike
It all goes fine until you get to the first stop...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 07, 2012, 09:44:15 PM
They are down to Fort Wayne already...

Quote
FORT WAYNE, Ind. (WANE) - INDOT crews have started changing exit sign numbers along I-69 though Fort Wayne.
 
Early in the morning on Tuesday, a slow changeover began taking place on I-69 in Fort Wayne. Road crews started changing exit sign numbers in the southbound lanes of the interstate, at the first exit to Fort Wayne, Dupont Road. That exit, formerly exit 116, is now exit 316.

Crews change I-69 exit sign numbers (http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/crews-change-i-69-exit-sign-numbers) (WANE)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 07, 2012, 11:31:03 PM
wow that happened fast
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on August 08, 2012, 12:28:31 AM
They are down to Fort Wayne already...

Quote
FORT WAYNE, Ind. (WANE) - INDOT crews have started changing exit sign numbers along I-69 though Fort Wayne.
 
Early in the morning on Tuesday, a slow changeover began taking place on I-69 in Fort Wayne. Road crews started changing exit sign numbers in the southbound lanes of the interstate, at the first exit to Fort Wayne, Dupont Road. That exit, formerly exit 116, is now exit 316.

Crews change I-69 exit sign numbers (http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/crews-change-i-69-exit-sign-numbers) (WANE)

Some of the comments on that article are very, very amusing.  Number the new road as 569 so as to avoid having to renumber exits?  69 not a valid number in the first place because INDOT should have known all along that the road would eventually include parts west of 65?  Bonkers!!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 08, 2012, 12:23:40 PM
What they could have done is call it i-67 and keep 69 stay from fishers to Michigan
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: adt1982 on August 08, 2012, 02:32:14 PM
What they could have done is call it i-67 and keep 69 stay from fishers to Michigan

But it would still be in violation since it is west of I-65.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 08, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
Ahh yes you would be correct. Well make it i-61 or 63
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 08, 2012, 07:19:09 PM
In the INDOT monthly contract letting today, it appears that ES Wagner of Ohio will win the contract to build another section of I-69 in Monroe County ($57.5M bid with an engineer's estimate of $61.5M).

My daughter who drove I-69 north to Fort Wayne today said she saw no exit number tab changes as far as she went (to Coldwater Rd.). So apparently, they must be doing the changes southbound.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 08, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
And I saw them going northbound in Indy yesterday, but not southbound. Weird. I'll just have to see them through my rear-view mirror heading up north.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on August 08, 2012, 08:50:46 PM
The ship has already sailed on diagonal routes and out-of-grid.  85 is an offender being diagonal, as is 71, and NC I-74 has blown things open with extensions of existing interstates going off-grid.  (We'll leave I-99 out of this for now....just drove to its northern end last week and what silliness having it end at cross streets less than a mile from I-80, especially right now with construction on I-80 that has a STOP sign facing traffic coming from I-99 trying to merge onto 80.)  61 or 63 might as well be saved for future routes so as to not have those be so far out of grid, and actually now Indy will be nice and symmetrical with two pairs (70/74 and 65/69) coming and going, with the proper positions in the grid to the north and west, and violations to the south and east. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 08, 2012, 09:38:33 PM
Coincidentally (or not), the highest exit number in Illinois is exit 357 on I-57.

Of course, Interstate 57 in Illinois, actually is 357 miles long. Sorry, I was trying to make a quick jab at INDOT for their lack of logic.

For another thread, I posted this link (http://www.dot.state.il.us/il50/il_interstates.html) from IDOT. If the mileage shown is correct, Illinois actually does the same sort of thing as I-57 is 353 miles long while the highest exit number is 357. I-55 is just under 276 miles, but the highest exit number is 293. I am not sure where it would be hidden - even if they are counting the major concurrencies, it does not add up.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 08, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
I think there is something wrong with the IDOT site, because the distance along I-55 (according to Google Maps) from the Popular Street Bridge at the Mississippi River to Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is 293 miles. Also, the distance along I-57 from the Mississippi River near Cairo to I-57's termius with the Dan Ryan (I-94) is 358 miles.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on August 08, 2012, 09:59:47 PM
FHWA's list is also borked, in that the right column includes overlap mileage and the left column double-counts it: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table1.cfm
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 08, 2012, 10:07:00 PM
They probably are not including the I-55 and I-57 concurrencies with I-70 (counting them on I-70). Still, both seem to be a mile or two off. For example, 353 + 6 = 359 and 275.7 + 20 = 296. Not a whole lot, but it looks like mileages are not really an exact science.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: adt1982 on August 09, 2012, 12:11:50 AM
I think there is something wrong with the IDOT site, because the distance along I-55 (according to Google Maps) from the Popular Street Bridge at the Mississippi River to Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is 293 miles. Also, the distance along I-57 from the Mississippi River near Cairo to I-57's termius with the Dan Ryan (I-94) is 358 miles.

Sorry, but there is nothing popular about the Poplar Street Bridge. :ded:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on August 09, 2012, 08:50:09 AM
If this year's drought has brought any good news with it, it's that the contractors have been able to more than make up for the time they lost last year with the flooding!

Evansville media reported last night/this morning that INDOT now expects to have I-69 from Evansville to Crane done by mid-to-late November if the weather stays with them.  That's about a month earlier than we'd been hearing around here.

Here's the Courier & Press report: http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/08/no-headline---i-69_tour/
WFIE (with video): http://www.14news.com/story/19231994/14-news-takes-tour-of-new-section-of-i-69
WEHT/WTVW (with video): http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=534882
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 09, 2012, 02:13:07 PM
Question : why didn't indot consider using a temporary name for the new stretch of 69 until its one complete route. I see some states do that by calling it future i-xx or sr xx(i know sr 69 isn't possible )
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: english si on August 09, 2012, 02:47:03 PM
Question : why didn't indot consider using a temporary name for the new stretch of 69 until its one complete route. I see some states do that by calling it future i-xx or sr xx(i know sr 69 isn't possible )
I-164?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 09, 2012, 04:06:42 PM
That would work.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 09, 2012, 07:51:46 PM
I think there is something wrong with the IDOT site, because the distance along I-55 (according to Google Maps) from the Popular Street Bridge at the Mississippi River to Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is 293 miles. Also, the distance along I-57 from the Mississippi River near Cairo to I-57's termius with the Dan Ryan (I-94) is 358 miles.

Sorry, but there is nothing popular about the Poplar Street Bridge. :ded:

Apologies, I forgot that those two aren't spelled the same.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 09, 2012, 09:06:43 PM
Not on the new section of I-69, but at a new interchange being built on I-69 in Indiana:

Quote
Work at Interstate 69 and Union Chapel Road was set back at least two nights because of a beam that fell during construction Wednesday, blocking part of I-69 for more than five hours, the Indiana Department of Transportation said.

I-69 to see another night of closures after accident (http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120809/NEWS/120809608/1005)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 09, 2012, 09:34:27 PM
If this year's drought has brought any good news with it, it's that the contractors have been able to more than make up for the time they lost last year with the flooding!

Evansville media reported last night/this morning that INDOT now expects to have I-69 from Evansville to Crane done by mid-to-late November if the weather stays with them.  That's about a month earlier than we'd been hearing around here.

Here's the Courier & Press report: http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/08/no-headline---i-69_tour/
WFIE (with video): http://www.14news.com/story/19231994/14-news-takes-tour-of-new-section-of-i-69
WEHT/WTVW (with video): http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=534882

Here is another article with a twist.

Quote
Elliott confirmed that INDOT is inviting  communities to plan a potential celebration in mid-October along the interstate, entertaining ideas ranging from festivals to bike rides or camp-outs. Plans for that event are in the preliminary stages.

I-69 will open in November (http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_818bb3d4-e1d7-11e1-b455-001a4bcf887a.html)

Another interesting things in that article was that "site prep work included dropping 17 tons of weight from 60 feet, seven times, to compact the soil...". I haven't heard of that technique before.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 09, 2012, 10:21:47 PM
what is the last exit that will be open on the new 69 (furthest north) this November?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 09, 2012, 11:08:32 PM
Should be US 231.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on August 10, 2012, 12:10:40 AM
If this year's drought has brought any good news with it, it's that the contractors have been able to more than make up for the time they lost last year with the flooding!

Evansville media reported last night/this morning that INDOT now expects to have I-69 from Evansville to Crane done by mid-to-late November if the weather stays with them.  That's about a month earlier than we'd been hearing around here.

Here's the Courier & Press report: http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/08/no-headline---i-69_tour/
WFIE (with video): http://www.14news.com/story/19231994/14-news-takes-tour-of-new-section-of-i-69
WEHT/WTVW (with video): http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=534882

Here is another article with a twist.

Quote
Elliott confirmed that INDOT is inviting  communities to plan a potential celebration in mid-October along the interstate, entertaining ideas ranging from festivals to bike rides or camp-outs. Plans for that event are in the preliminary stages.

I-69 will open in November (http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_818bb3d4-e1d7-11e1-b455-001a4bcf887a.html)

Another interesting things in that article was that "site prep work included dropping 17 tons of weight from 60 feet, seven times, to compact the soil...". I haven't heard of that technique before.

That was a new one on me, too, but it makes sense with all the coal mining that has gone on in those counties (esp. Pike and Gibson!) for the past, oh, 100+ years.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 10, 2012, 02:18:32 PM
O ok so you can take 231 to 45 to 37 to 465 to fill in the gap until the rest is finished
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on August 11, 2012, 03:21:09 PM
O ok so you can take 231 to 45 to 37 to 465 to fill in the gap until the rest is finished

Or US 231 to I 70, to the second encounter with I 465 (eastside), to fill the gap
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on August 11, 2012, 04:18:39 PM
I would pay MONEY if people spelled out. Phuck Tom whatever his last name is.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on August 11, 2012, 04:40:06 PM
Fromohio?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 11, 2012, 08:57:04 PM
Renumbered Indy area exit signs:

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--96thSt-3.jpg)
At 96th Street

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--SoutheasternPkwy-2.jpg)
At former SR 238

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--SR13-2.jpg)
At SR 13

It was mostly signed almost up to SR 38 in Pendleton. There were gaps in the enhanced mile markers, and service signs weren't done yet. Apparently all work so far is in the northbound lanes.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 11, 2012, 09:05:14 PM
nice pics
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 12, 2012, 08:54:31 AM
Saw those too on Thursday night, again up to the Pendleton exit. In Fort Wayne, the southbound signs were changed down to about SR 14, but nothing on the northbound. Interestingly, the milemarkers in the median heading north were old and south were new, and you can tell that the southbound milemarkers were larger in size than the northbound.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 15, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
The Bloomington Herald Times (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/)), which costs you to read articles online has a headline "INDOT plans weekend of events on I-69 pavement ". I guess the headline says it all. You can read the comments for free and wait until tomorrow for more details.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on August 16, 2012, 12:39:28 AM
The Bloomington Herald Times (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/)), which costs you to read articles online has a headline "INDOT plans weekend of events on I-69 pavement ". I guess the headline says it all. You can read the comments for free and wait until tomorrow for more details.

The communities along I-69 in Gibson and Pike counties are planning activities for that weekend, including camping, walking and maybe bike riding on the new highway, from what I have heard.  I'm thinking about going!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on August 16, 2012, 09:29:56 AM
Sounds like a excuse to me. Need to make sure they did it right.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 16, 2012, 01:56:49 PM
Sounds like a excuse to me. Need to make sure they did it right.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 16, 2012, 05:14:22 PM
Sounds like a excuse to me. Need to make sure they did it right.

Huh? I'm with Silverback. I have no idea what this post is referring to.

Here (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=235&ArticleID=66171) is a little more info on the activities.

Also there is a video on I-69 from Inside Indiana Business  (http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 16, 2012, 05:26:32 PM
Maybe he is thinking that the people in those counties may use their campers or antique cars to make sure that the highway is sturdy enough to handle vehicles. I know the highway was built a bit...cheap, but the highway still should be fine.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on August 16, 2012, 05:29:31 PM
I think he's saying that it sounds like an excuse for him to visit that area. Not sure about the second sentence though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on August 16, 2012, 05:43:58 PM
^^
Here (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=235&ArticleID=66171) is a little more info on the activities.
Quote
Antique tractors, classic cars, bicyclists, runners, campers and possibly some artists and dancers may take to the pavement as part of festivities previewing the highway’s debut.

He may be in a life situation where he will have to make a "stealth" visit outside of the knowledge of a significant other, employer, etc.  If you see a dancer out-of-sync with the others, then you may be observing an undercover roadgeek.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 16, 2012, 06:12:11 PM
I know the highway was built a bit...cheap, but the highway still should be fine.

I remember staged pavement was proposed, but as far as I know it was not used as most of I-69 is PCCP. I did hear the right of way was a little narrower, but one of the opponents' big complaints was the loss of woods and farm land. A slightly narrower right of way would be a good thing by that logic.

I think this document (http://www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf) proposed several things that were the source of the belief that corners were being cut, but I do not believe they were all adopted. Also, I am not sure what they would really do to the quality of the highway. Maybe others can comment on that.

From the one completed exit, INDOT installed full lighting at the interchange. Some states rarely install lighting. If corners were really being cut so much, this is something you would not expect to see.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on August 16, 2012, 07:07:40 PM
Interesting, I didn't know if the proposal with the concrete was carried through or not. The ROW component is fine, as long as there is enough for the highway and obviously there is. The only other cutting corners aspect I would have seen is the eliminationg (or postonment) of the two local exits between Petersburg and Washington, and the elimination of a rest area (I think it was north of Washington, and perhaps it is still being built, I just haven't seen anything on it.) On that note, introducing a new question, does anyone have any thoughts about the location of new rest areas once INDOT is in the mood to install them? How about welcome centers, do you see one on I-164 eventually?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on August 16, 2012, 07:17:02 PM
Many of the I-69 "cost saving" proposals were  probably recommendations from "Value Engineering" Studies.  VE is mandatory on a project using federal money that costs over $25,000,000.  Even though Major Moves money payed for all or most of it, I don't doubt that VE was there somewhere in the process.  If Georgia DOT is an indication, state DOT's use it agressively these days, whether required by the Feds or not.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 16, 2012, 07:33:35 PM
On that note, intoducing a new question, does anyone have any thoughts about the location of new rest areas once INDOT is in the mood to install them? How about welcome centers, do you see one on I-164 eventually?

The only one I saw in the plans that were published at one time was at the postponed northern Daviess County interchange. The rest area would serve both directions. I believe INDOT bought the land for it, but no timeline for construction has been made public.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 16, 2012, 09:11:26 PM
I can't make it down there for a while, hopefully the route will be added to google maps by someone (or pictures from someone on here).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 17, 2012, 08:55:15 AM
Now that a milestone is looming with the opening of 65 more miles and most of section 4 between Crane and Bloomington is under construction, here are three classic articles that I bookmarked along the journey - there are probably hundreds of articles still online that document the whole story. The first of my three was written before funding had been identified in 2005, and is pretty funny in hindsight, but the skepticism was understandable.

Quote
The mayor of Evansville says he questions Governor Mitch Daniels’ commitment to construction of the I-69 highway extension linking his city with Indianapolis.

Evansville Mayor Skeptical About I-69 Construction (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/evansville-mayor-skeptical-i69-construction-2080/) (Indiana Public Media, July 1, 2005)

The second is an example of how the anti-I-69 group, CARR, is used for "analysis".

Quote
Detailed design studies, which include estimates for construction, engineering, design and land acquisitions for the stretch from Evansville to Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center, project a cost of $986 million to $1.2 billion.

That's as much as $500 million more than the state has budgeted.

"That $700 million: There's no way that gets them to Crane. No way," said Thomas Tokarski, president of Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads, a leading I-69 opposition group. "They're going to run out of money."

For the record, it actually ended up costing around $600 million and the $100M savings were applied to the construction of section 4. You wonder where these people come up with their information.

I-69 project: Can state finish what it started? (http://www.indystar.com/article/20090817/LOCAL/908170339/I-69-project-Can-state-finish-what-started-) (Indy Star, August 17, 2009)

Finally, an editorial in Evansville when the schedule for construction of the Crane to Bloomington section was unexpectedly bumped up by more six years.

Quote
Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels came to Southwestern Indiana on Wednesday to make a stunning announcement: If the Midwestern construction climate remains as is, motorists may be driving to Bloomington on Interstate 69 by 2014.

Imagine that. A project that took more than 50 years to see dirt turned may stretch from Evansville to Bloomington in six years time. Before Wednesday, the expectation had been that the Crane to Bloomington work would not even take place until sometime between 2016 and 2020.

EDITORIAL: On to Bloomington: A truly stunning development on I-69 (http://indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=66&ArticleID=54433&TM=59233.67) (Evansville Courier and Press, May 24, 2010)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on August 17, 2012, 12:04:21 PM
Road trip to check the quality of construction.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 20, 2012, 07:17:30 PM
A few more details on  the I-69 pre-opening shindig.

Quote
...Officials in Vanderburgh, Gibson, Pike, Daviess, and Greene counties have been contacted to participate in what she called a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

INDOT planning day of activities along new stretch of I-69 (http://www.gcdailyworld.com/story/1883785.html) (Greene County Daily World)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 22, 2012, 08:01:56 PM
I-69 articles from today:

EDITORIAL: I-69 communities ready to celebrate (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/22/i-69-communities-ready-to-celebrate/) (Evansville Courier & Press)

INDOT Closing State Road 45 Near Bloomfield (http://www.wbiw.com/local/archives/2012/08/indot_closing_state_road_45_ne.php) (WBIW)

My wife went north on I-69 to Ft. Wayne yesterday and said the exit number conversion has started in the northbound lanes. I taught her well. Last week, most signs in the southbound lanes down to SR 22/US 35 had been changed.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 22, 2012, 08:22:11 PM
A new connector road around state road 45? Wish they put a map of the new roads in the article
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 22, 2012, 08:38:20 PM
The connector road extends SR 445 to I-69. SR 45 gets an interchange further south. All INDOT plans are online.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on August 22, 2012, 10:09:07 PM
The connector road extends SR 445 to I-69. SR 45 gets an interchange further south. All INDOT plans are online.

Thanks totally forgot about that
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: WrkHrse on August 27, 2012, 08:38:09 PM
This may be a little off topic, but does anyone know what will happen to the current end of SR-37/Harding St. North of Epler Ave.? I am just curious to know what will happen to the 4-lane section between the Harding St. intersection and Epler after the I-69 leg is built to bypass the current SR-37 interchange.

Logic would dictate that since the money was spent to upgrade the road that it would end at Epler, but it would simply be a bypass to the existing Harding st. Plus there is no business access to that short stretch.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2012, 10:13:38 AM
This may be a little off topic, but does anyone know what will happen to the current end of SR-37/Harding St. North of Epler Ave.? I am just curious to know what will happen to the 4-lane section between the Harding St. intersection and Epler after the I-69 leg is built to bypass the current SR-37 interchange.

Logic would dictate that since the money was spent to upgrade the road that it would end at Epler, but it would simply be a bypass to the existing Harding st. Plus there is no business access to that short stretch.

I believe they will make harding one continuous street they will connect it with the part that leaves 37 just north of epler.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 02, 2012, 04:46:07 PM
This may be a little off topic, but does anyone know what will happen to the current end of SR-37/Harding St. North of Epler Ave.? I am just curious to know what will happen to the 4-lane section between the Harding St. intersection and Epler after the I-69 leg is built to bypass the current SR-37 interchange.

Logic would dictate that since the money was spent to upgrade the road that it would end at Epler, but it would simply be a bypass to the existing Harding st. Plus there is no business access to that short stretch.

Plans are not final, but if I remember correctly, preliminary pans that were posted showed it staying as is from Epler to I-465 and north. It would not connect to I-69 near Epler. Remember, section 6 final plans could be totally different.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on September 03, 2012, 04:42:47 PM
Preliminary alternatives from 2005: http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/map_PIM_11I-465-HardingSt.pdf
Harding would go straight through; the southbound lanes of SR 37 would be retained for local access between Harding and Epler.
Title: I-69 Renumbering Nearing Completion
Post by: mukade on September 04, 2012, 03:48:07 PM
From the Fort Wayne perspective at least, the great exit renumbering is approaching completion.

I-69 Renumbering Nearing Completion (http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/I-69-Renumbering-Nearing-Completion-168476026.html) (Indiana News Center)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rawmustard on September 06, 2012, 11:24:15 AM
From the Fort Wayne perspective at least, the great exit renumbering is approaching completion.

I-69 Renumbering Nearing Completion (http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/I-69-Renumbering-Nearing-Completion-168476026.html) (Indiana News Center)
I drove down to Fort Wayne this past Sunday (mainly to check progress on Fort-to-Port and drive the newly opened section) and noticed that just about all the southbound signs were done. The exceptions were the service signs (presumably those are contracted) and the advance signs for Exit 357 which are north of the state line (perhaps those will be gotten once they get all the way north). Even the reference markers for overpasses were updated, since normally those get neglected when a conventional SR is rerouted/turned back/realigned.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on September 08, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
I think INDOT was jumping the gun with its renumbering scheme on the existing I-69, because wasn't the southward extension supposed to be only 184 miles? If so, the mile markers/exit numbers have gone 16 more than they should really be, although I do realize that this is pending the final plans for the still-unbuilt Bloomington-Indianapolis route.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 08, 2012, 01:09:55 PM
It's supposed to be 184 miles, INDOT is aware of that, they just figured that it was easier for people to add 200 than 184. As for the Bloomington to Indianapolis route, most if not all people assume it will be along SR 37 nearly all the way to I-465, unless it gets veered off toward I-70, but there's no actual plans for that right now. INDOT's stance is that conviencence trumps logic.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on September 08, 2012, 08:28:38 PM
INDOT's stance is that convenience can be the most logical choice.
FTFY.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: digitalphiltv on September 08, 2012, 09:07:12 PM
Slightly off-topic, but http://kunstlercast.com/shows/kunstlercast_141_interstate_69_matt_dellinger.html ... 55 minute audio clip, Matt Dellinger discusses his book "Interstate 69: The Unfinished History of the Last Great American Highway"

How much is left on the Indy to Michigan Renumbering? Are they including the mileposts? I live in Indy, but have not been able to find the time to go over there and look at the local effort.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on September 09, 2012, 09:46:49 AM
I guess it does make sense to add 200 to the existing numbers; it's easier to remember than if they added 184.

Is there a map of the southern extension as proposed? (down to and including the Ohio River crossing)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on September 09, 2012, 11:39:14 AM
Or you could just brute force memorize them.  It's what people do to remember facts in school, so how hard can it be?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on September 09, 2012, 12:10:05 PM
Or you could just brute force memorize them.  It's what people do to remember facts in school, so how hard can it be?
That was my least favorite part of school.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Scott5114 on September 11, 2012, 12:12:43 AM
Who memorizes exit numbers?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 11, 2012, 12:24:55 AM
Who memorizes exit numbers?

Seriously, I don't know why INDOT thought people would get confused, most people memorize the road name on the exit, not the number!  Besides, it isn't even hard to get used to the new number if they used 184 instead of 200, do they really think people are that stupid?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on September 11, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
Who memorizes exit numbers?
Emergency responders?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on September 11, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
Who memorizes exit numbers?

Seriously, I don't know why INDOT thought people would get confused, most people memorize the road name on the exit, not the number!  Besides, it isn't even hard to get used to the new number if they used 184 instead of 200, do they really think people are that stupid?

There is a lot of stuff out there like mapping software, car GPS systems, travel brochures and books, etc. etc. etc. that requires changing over for audiences way beyond those who live right near the road or use it daily.  Making it easy to convert the old numbers to new ones just makes sense to ease the confusion that will linger for some time.  Reversing the argument, if the name of the road at the exit is so much more important than the number, then why sweat the 200 vs. 184 thing at all?  (Throwing in the fact that the southern few miles aren't set in stone and the 184 is plus or minus a little, why sweat it?  The solution they chose is the easiest for everyone.  Heck, a couple weeks ago passing by at the southern end of 469, I saw that they added a numeral 2, instead of replacing the tab, on at least one sign to give Exit 296A for I-469.  Much easier than changing it to whatever 96+184 comes out to.  :D )
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on September 11, 2012, 04:30:38 PM
Who memorizes exit numbers?
I do, as do people at NYSDOT.  Note that NY is sequential though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on September 12, 2012, 02:32:55 PM
Who memorizes exit numbers?
I do, as do people at NYSDOT.  Note that NY is sequential though.
As is every New England state except Maine (which, along with Florida, Georgia and Pennsylvania, dropped the sequential numbering system in 2000 or so).

Much easier than changing it to whatever 96+184 comes out to.  :D )
Which would be 280.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 12, 2012, 06:18:46 PM
For the INDOT letting of September 12, bids were accepted for the second to the last project of I-69 section 4. This is from taylor Ridge Road to Plummers Creek in Greene County - so this starts about four miles east of US 231, I believe. Only two bids were submitted and neither were under the engineer's estimate. I am not familiar with the terrain (I assume it is pretty hilly), but the low bid was around $178M and the high bid was around $237M.

For the August 8 letting, INDOT documents show that E S Wagner Company was awarded the I-69 section 4 contract in Monroe County for around $57.5M. Seven companies submitted bids in that letting. That bid was about $11.5M below the engineer's estimate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 12, 2012, 08:36:18 PM
The renumbering doesn't bother me I just don't see how it would be any different for people driving if the numbers change.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on September 13, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
For the INDOT letting of September 12, bids were accepted for the second to the last project of I-69 section 4. This is from taylor Ridge Road to Plummers Creek in Greene County - so this starts about four miles east of US 231, I believe. Only two bids were submitted and neither were under the engineer's estimate. I am not familiar with the terrain (I assume it is pretty hilly), but the low bid was around $178M and the high bid was around $237M.

For the August 8 letting, INDOT documents show that E S Wagner Company was awarded the I-69 section 4 contract in Monroe County for around $57.5M. Seven companies submitted bids in that letting. That bid was about $11.5M below the engineer's estimate.

It's definitely hilly.  I expect we'll see a lot of earth moving and soon.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 13, 2012, 08:04:14 PM
I had to make an impromptu trip up to Fort Wayne and drove all the way to the Toll Road and back on my return trip to check out the renumbering. In short, the renumbering is basically complete throughout in both directions. The only exceptions are around the construction zone on the north side of Fort Wayne near the Union Chapel Road exit and I assume those will be fixed when that project is over. None of the services signs have been changed over and the button copy signs I have mentioned before in Madison and Delaware Counties remain, although I'm sure no one is complaining.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 13, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
The only exceptions are around the construction zone on the north side of Fort Wayne near the Union Chapel Road exit and I assume those will be fixed when that project is over.

Once the new Union Chapel Rd. exit is open, the DuPont Rd (SR 1) interchange will be rebuilt as a diverging diamond, and there will be new signs installed.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 14, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
The only exceptions are around the construction zone on the north side of Fort Wayne near the Union Chapel Road exit and I assume those will be fixed when that project is over.

Once the new Union Chapel Rd. exit is open, the DuPont Rd (SR 1) interchange will be rebuilt as a diverging diamond, and there will be new signs installed.

The divering diamond is awesome first one in Indiana I believe. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 14, 2012, 11:34:18 AM

The divering diamond is awesome first one in Indiana I believe.

(http://api.ning.com/files/czxY49Mk75BdxqzYTip2yRHFiUwbUBnLKXFx*vzo-FF57UWSa9yHxJjcWeh7mNxNJ2OLUMdEBaRrKUsiDyI*ZYxjmwNvrBIX/Van_Halen_Diver_Down_SA.jpg?width=600&height=600)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on September 14, 2012, 02:46:16 PM
For the INDOT letting of September 12, bids were accepted for the second to the last project of I-69 section 4. This is from taylor Ridge Road to Plummers Creek in Greene County - so this starts about four miles east of US 231, I believe. Only two bids were submitted and neither were under the engineer's estimate. I am not familiar with the terrain (I assume it is pretty hilly), but the low bid was around $178M and the high bid was around $237M.

For the August 8 letting, INDOT documents show that E S Wagner Company was awarded the I-69 section 4 contract in Monroe County for around $57.5M. Seven companies submitted bids in that letting. That bid was about $11.5M below the engineer's estimate.
Yes, this area is very "hilly". They have already cleared a huge path east of 231 up to IN 45 and beyond. The terrain is hills and valleys. This section is supposed to be finished in 2 years? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 14, 2012, 03:03:56 PM
Sure, it will just be a very busy two years. If they can build some 60 miles of interstate in two to three years, then building a 20-some mile stretch in Greene and Monroe Counties shouldn't be a hassle. But the terrain will make it the most difficult section to build undoubtably. Looking a few pages back to the bit about US 231 being considered the temporary route for I-69 from Crane north to I-69 I started thinking: is is wise to be sending the interstate-bound traffic through Bloomfield, Worthington and Spencer? I've seen traffic get heavy through Bloomfield and I know there was talk about a bypass for Spencer, and INDOT wants to send Indianapolis-bound traffic up this way? When I went down SR 45 from Bloomington to Crane earlier this summer to check out the construction, I noticed that 45 wasn't too bad of a drive once you left SR 54 in eastern Greene County to Crane. Sure the section in Monroe County is a bit windy, but wouldn't SR 45 along with SR 37 be a better temporary route than 231?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 14, 2012, 07:30:15 PM
I agree that the Bloomfield alternatives are poor, but the problem with SR 45 is when commuters to and from Bloomington and to and from Crane hit the road. It can be pretty solid traffic. That is why I thought SR 58 east to SR 37 would be the least problematic even if it is not the shortest.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 14, 2012, 07:42:53 PM
Fair enough, I was traveling on a Saturday down SR 45, so the commuter traffic wasn't present. Didn't think about 45 and 58 east to Bedford, that wouldn't be too bad for an alternative.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 14, 2012, 11:02:24 PM
Yes, this area is very "hilly". They have already cleared a huge path east of 231 up to IN 45 and beyond. The terrain is hills and valleys. This section is supposed to be finished in 2 years? :hmmm:

I am pretty sure this is the section from 4 miles east of US 231 to somewhere west of, but near SR 45. Other contracts have been let from SR 45 almost up to SR 37.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on September 14, 2012, 11:59:20 PM
And it continues to inch closer to Indy by the minute :)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: digitalphiltv on September 15, 2012, 08:11:27 AM
And it continues to inch closer to Indy by the minute :)

At the rate, it feels like, of one inch per minute.  :nod: :-P
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 15, 2012, 09:01:18 AM
And it continues to inch closer to Indy by the minute :)

At the rate, it feels like, of one inch per minute. 

An inch per minute would take almost 20 years - and it likely will take that long to complete it to I-465. The more positive way to look at it (assuming that $177M bid for 5-6 miles is accepted) is that about 90 continuous miles will be under construction. I can't remember the last time that happened, but I assume it was in the 1970s.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 15, 2012, 03:15:03 PM
it would have been nice for them to have finished it to 37 then the temp route would have been sr 37 a much better route for the thru traffic
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on September 15, 2012, 03:34:47 PM
And it continues to inch closer to Indy by the minute :)

At the rate, it feels like, of one inch per minute. 

An inch per minute would take almost 20 years - and it likely will take that long to complete it to I-465. The more positive way to look at it (assuming that $177M bid for 5-6 miles is accepted) is that about 90 continuous miles will be under construction. I can't remember the last time that happened, but I assume it was in the 1970s.

When I worked on I-55 in IL, we had about 200 miles of the route under construction at once, in aproximately 7-to-10 mile team sections.  We had about 4 full time inspection and management personnel per section, augmented by about 10-15 seasonal help, plus hundreds of contractors and union personnel in peak periods.  Those sleepy little towns never had so much of an economic jolt with hundreds of customers at the local restaurants, bars and grocery stores.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 15, 2012, 09:20:20 PM
When I worked on I-55 in IL, we had about 200 miles of the route under construction at once, in aproximately 7-to-10 mile team sections.  We had about 4 full time inspection and management personnel per section, augmented by about 10-15 seasonal help, plus hundreds of contractors and union personnel in peak periods.  Those sleepy little towns never had so much of an economic jolt with hundreds of customers at the local restaurants, bars and grocery stores.

In the Rand McNally road atlases way back, I remember seeing the red US 66 route fairly quickly become the green I-55 one so it must have happened in a relatively short time. I-64 in Illinois was also done in a single shot if I remember correctly.

Back to I-55, the areas near St. Louis, Springfield, Bloomington, and Chicago (south of Joliet northward) had already been built so I thought there were three stretches of roughly 50-60 miles each that were built in the same general timeframe. It was impressive to be sure, but when and where was the last 90 straight mile stretch built anywhere?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 15, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
Below are some pics of the I-69 signs with new exit numbers. Only a few guide signs and signs that will soon be replaced still have old exit numbers.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--CR200W-4.jpg)
Steuben County

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--LimaRd-1.jpg)
Allen County (Fort Wayne)

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--SR1-5.jpg)
Allen County (Fort Wayne)

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I69--SR8-3.jpg)
Dekalb County
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on September 17, 2012, 11:47:38 PM
Quote
Looking a few pages back to the bit about US 231 being considered the temporary route for I-69 from Crane north to I-69 I started thinking: is is wise to be sending the interstate-bound traffic through Bloomfield, Worthington and Spencer?
Will INDOT post an "official" temporary route from Crane to Indy or will they leave drivers to figure it out? What's the precedence on this in other projects? Many projects have an obvious route for the unfinished portion, but not so here.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on September 18, 2012, 12:02:24 AM
Will INDOT post an "official" temporary route from Crane to Indy or will they leave drivers to figure it out? What's the precedence on this in other projects? Many projects have an obvious route for the unfinished portion, but not so here.

Whatever the GPS says...  :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 18, 2012, 11:19:52 AM
There is a picture of a sign, a few pages up that mukade had posted that tells motorists as they apporach the US 231 exit (where they will have to get off for a couple of years) to use US 231 north to I-70 as a temporary route. So according to INDOT's signage plans, this is their idea for a temporary route. How it will be marked on US 231 itself is unknown.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 19, 2012, 08:18:44 PM
Both bids from the September letting for the last section 4 I-69 contract in Greene County were rejected and will be re-advertised. The lower bid was for about $178M. As that stretch is difficult terrain, I wonder if this will affect the planned 2014 opening date.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 20, 2012, 04:19:33 PM
This may only interest me, but the plans for signage around the SR 37 interchange (Exit 114) are now out. First of all, it appears that the free-flowing trumpet design (or whatever it's called, not the roundabout one) is being used for the interchange, meaning that SR 37 south will enter and exit the I-69/Eventual I-69 corridor without having to navigate any roundabouts.

Second, as I suspected, on I-69 the exit is signed for SR 37 south to Bedford and SR 37 north to Bloomington, with no mention of Indianapolis. Perhaps that will change in the future when I-69 is extended further north. I live for the day I can see Evansville on I-465, or even a dual mention of Bloomington and Evansville on 465 will work for me. Southbound on SR 37, Evansville is indeed the control city as it should be.

A quick look from INDOT's site shows that the planned community days on the new interstate (or whatever the event's name is) is scheduled for October 20th at the interchanges with US 231, SR 58, US 50, SR 61 and SR 64.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 20, 2012, 08:07:07 PM
Good news on the new I-69 plans. I was hoping the remainder of the Hamilton County US 31 plans might also be available as they are supposed to be let the same day. I did not see them.

Seeing that INDOT issued that one press release today, you would think that the rejected I-69 bids would also merit a press release.

Title: I-69 On Time
Post by: mukade on September 20, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
Here (http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/local/southern_indiana/i69-on-time#.UFu8RsV9tu0) is a news report on I-69 construction in southern Indiana from September 20 (from WTHI).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 23, 2012, 10:28:54 AM
The Bloomington Herald-Times has a headline on 9/23 entitled "I-69 paving work almost done from Evansville to U.S. 231 in southern Greene County". As usual, you cannot read the article unless you pay. Again, some of the comments, which you can read are funny. The following is about one guy who insists little has been done between Crane and Bloomington and the bulldozers just need to be rerouted to upgrade the US 231 corridor to I-70:

Quote
(outspoken opponent) is a pretty smart feller and can handle himself in just about any topic of discussion, but you get him on this I-69 thing and he immediately goes all slobber jaw. They will be seed and straw'n and he will still say it's not too late...

Comments can be read here (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxMi8wOS8yMy9uZXdzLmNvbmNyZXRlLXByb2dyZXNzLWktNjktbmVhci1jcmFuZS5zdG8=).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on September 30, 2012, 05:31:25 PM
There is a picture of a sign, a few pages up that mukade had posted that tells motorists as they apporach the US 231 exit (where they will have to get off for a couple of years) to use US 231 north to I-70 as a temporary route. So according to INDOT's signage plans, this is their idea for a temporary route. How it will be marked on US 231 itself is unknown.
It likely will not be posted or marked on US 231, if you use the example set by I 465 and all of the routes that are multiplexed on it (other than I 74). None of the US or IN state routes are marked once on I 465.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on September 30, 2012, 09:04:05 PM
Well, this is an interstate and not a state or US route that would be signed so the 465 example wouldn't work (as you said I-74 is signed) in that regard. Now I don't know how temporary interstates would work being signed, in fact I don't know if I've ever seen a temporary interstate signed (only the I-69 corridor signs in Kentucky.) In any case I guess we'll see what happens and find out in a few months how it will work.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on October 01, 2012, 07:50:23 PM
Well, this is an interstate and not a state or US route that would be signed so the 465 example wouldn't work (as you said I-74 is signed) in that regard. Now I don't know how temporary interstates would work being signed, in fact I don't know if I've ever seen a temporary interstate signed (only the I-69 corridor signs in Kentucky.) In any case I guess we'll see what happens and find out in a few months how it will work.
I would think I-69 signs will be added to I-465 once the highway is signed on up to 465. The assumption comes in that if the new interchange is not completed and traffic has to use a little bit of 37 to get to 465 for a couple of years, I would still expect there to be new signs erected. The Beltway can already be signed as I-69, as it's continuous Interstate, so it would only be the little piece left to be signed as temporary.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: civeng on October 02, 2012, 02:07:17 PM
My guess is that it won't be temporarily signed, just as the newly opened portion is now.  It simply states that you must exit to SR 68.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on October 02, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
My guess is that it won't be temporarily signed, just as the newly opened portion is now.  It simply states that you must exit to SR 68.
I should probably elaborate on my guess - I don't expect "TEMPORARY I-69" signs, but I do expect I-69 to be signed continuously in some fashion. (I.e. you won't "lose" the route.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on October 03, 2012, 11:51:54 AM

I should probably elaborate on my guess - I don't expect "TEMPORARY I-69" signs, but I do expect I-69 to be signed continuously in some fashion. (I.e. you won't "lose" the route.)

The infamous "TO I-69"?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on October 03, 2012, 05:14:35 PM
Now that Evansville to Crane is out of the way, all that's left to be done is the remainder of the stretch through Bloomington to Indianapolis...which could be several years away.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on October 03, 2012, 09:13:03 PM
"For
(69)
follow
[37]"

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on October 06, 2012, 09:48:00 PM
Article in the Indianapolis Star, presumeably for Sunday's paper about the future of I-69.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121006/NEWS05/210060346/Money-runs-low-completion-69-extension-from-Evansville-Indy?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CIndyStar.com&nclick_check=1
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 07, 2012, 09:01:37 AM
Article in the Indianapolis Star, presumeably for Sunday's paper about the future of I-69.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121006/NEWS05/210060346/Money-runs-low-completion-69-extension-from-Evansville-Indy?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CIndyStar.com&nclick_check=1


That reads like an article CARR and Tom Tokarski would be proud of. While completing I-69 will not be easy, there are options. Among them are the using part of the money from the recent budget surpluses and raising the gas tax (which can easily be argued as a fee). They could also sell bonds - not sure if that will fly or if it would be wise, but they could.

At the very least, it would be relatively inexpensive to make I-69 a freeway all the way through Bloomington. The plans to rebuild all except the SR 46 interchanges could be put on hold in order to extend the freeway as far north in Monroe County as the budget allows.

Personally, I think the state should put highest priority to improve the most congested and dangerous remaining intersections (make grade separations) on SR 37 between Bloomington and Indy and on US 31 from Plymouth to Hamilton County. That plan would not be a budget breaker, but would provide a very excellent value to the state.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 07, 2012, 02:47:33 PM
How about a toll road for Bloomington to Indy? It will enable quick contrstruction, and allow the new gov to avoid raising taxes.

And then they can lease it out to finance other projects.  :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 07, 2012, 05:50:07 PM
I say toll all the exits and entrances to Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on October 07, 2012, 07:47:17 PM
They can do ORT and call it the "Greenie Pass"
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 09, 2012, 10:12:29 PM
Quote
A Greene County planning committee is busy preparing for a king-sized Interstate 69 celebration on Oct. 20 that can be enjoyed by entire families and communities. The Greene County site will be near the intersection of State Road 58/U.S. 231 junction with the new interstate highway.

Plans for Greene County's I-69 Community Celebration Day coming together (http://www.gcdailyworld.com/story/1900292.html) (Greene County Daily World)


Less than two weeks away.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on October 11, 2012, 05:45:26 PM
Overpass construction on the Crane to Bloomington stretch.

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=59463&information_id=119998&type=&syndicate=syndicate
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hoosierguy on October 11, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
How about a toll road for Bloomington to Indy? It will enable quick contrstruction, and allow the new gov to avoid raising taxes.

And then they can lease it out to finance other projects.  :-D

That is a terrible idea. Toll an existing free highway? That defeats the purpose of increased mobility and economic benefits that the highway is supposed to provide.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hoosierguy on October 11, 2012, 09:23:46 PM
I say toll all the exits and entrances to Bloomington.

What a sick twisted assertion. Punish the people of Bloomington because they exercised their democratic rights to oppose a billion dollar boondoggle? Give me a break. How about we toll your driveway?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on October 11, 2012, 09:49:15 PM
Shawn's being a sore winner. Let him gloat while he can.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on October 15, 2012, 11:13:51 AM
I say toll all the exits and entrances to Bloomington.

What a sick twisted assertion. Punish the people of Bloomington because they exercised their democratic rights to oppose a billion dollar boondoggle? Give me a break. How about we toll your driveway?
Shawn's being a sore winner. Let him gloat while he can.
Actually, tolling the remainder of I-69 is not a bad idea. It can be built on top of IN 37, which already has 4 lanes in that corridor.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on October 15, 2012, 02:50:05 PM
Tolling that part of I-69 from Bloomington to Indianapolis HAD been proposed in the past, but Daniels decided against it. Originally they thought about tolling the whole thing and then part of it before deciding against it. Of course, the idea could be revived and a toll road could still happen, I think. I'd be fine with it under one condition, the highway must go back to free status once the cost to build the highway are paid, similar to Kentucky's parkways. As for building I-69 on top of SR 37, I believe the current idea at least with Section 5 is to have a frontage road follow one half of the current SR 37 and have the interstate follow on the other side (with more added to side for the interstate's width presumeably.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 15, 2012, 10:10:56 PM
Quote
If you are new to Indiana, there are mysteries you need to understand. One of those is called Interstate 69, the highway being built between Indianapolis, Bloomington, Crane, and Evansville...

OPINION: A premium highway deserves a premium price (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=67035) (Indiana Economic Digest)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 15, 2012, 10:35:55 PM
I'd be fine with it under one condition, the highway must go back to free status once the cost to build the highway are paid, similar to Kentucky's parkways.

Of course, they'll make the road free when the bonds are paid off. That's what they did with the Indiana Toll Road in my part of the state.

Wait a minute! I'm still paying tolls to go to Grandma's.

The funny thing is that I don't have any trouble paying a toll on the Indy to Bloomington road if that will get it done much sooner. When I visit my daughter in Evansville, I'd gladly pay a toll to forego the nightmare that is I-70 and US-41.

Quote
If you are new to Indiana, there are mysteries you need to understand. One of those is called Interstate 69, the highway being built between Indianapolis, Bloomington, Crane, and Evansville...

OPINION: A premium highway deserves a premium price (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=67035) (Indiana Economic Digest)

Well reasoned article. It's past time that the obstructionists realize that it's not a road to benefit just Indy and Evansville, but a road that can benefit the whole region.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 17, 2012, 01:15:56 PM
Indiana and it's residents have the right to gloat. Every step of the way those folks in Bloomington fought and fought this road. Yet most of them will drive on it when it's finished. Indiana did something no other state has done in decades and that is build over 100 miles of new construction Interstate.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 17, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
According to the Build I-69 web site, the draft environmental impact statement for Section 5 is expected this month. Also, meetings of the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization’s Citizens Advisory Committee, which will likely be discussing I-69, are scheduled for October 24 and November 26. The meetings will take place at Bloomington City Hall, Suite 135, beginning at 6:30.

The whole posting is here: http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1703 (http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1703)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 17, 2012, 06:13:36 PM
Has INDOT announced a date when the I-69 section from Evansville to Crane will be open to traffic?  I know their goal is this November, but we are more than half-way through October, and November is close at hand.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 17, 2012, 06:29:21 PM
I have seen reports it will be done in Late November but here is a link to the progress and there are 4 links at the upper left that let you see the maps and the completion ratio

http://www.i69indyevn.org/section-design-schedule/
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 17, 2012, 08:15:14 PM
Has INDOT announced a date when the I-69 section from Evansville to Crane will be open to traffic?  I know their goal is this November, but we are more than half-way through October, and November is close at hand.

Remember that the open house is this Saturday so we'll at least be able to see the progress. Maybe, we'll be lucky and see an INDOT person there.

INDOT should have a busy month with I-69, US 24 (Fort to Port), SR 25 (Lafayette to Delphi), and the US 31/SR 38 interchange opening up. US 31 Kokomo and US 31 South Bend are also both really coming along, but the Kokomo part opens next year and South Bend part in 2014.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 18, 2012, 06:41:51 AM
Here are details on an event at another interchange. It looks like the governor may speak at this one.

I-69 celebration set for Saturday  (http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/news/article_bf389c00-18dd-11e2-8f10-0019bb2963f4.html) (Tristate-Media)

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on October 18, 2012, 09:07:40 AM
That is a really cool pic in that article!  I can't wait to drive the finished route.  I'm stoked!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on October 18, 2012, 12:31:05 PM
67 miles of new construction has to be a big achievement these days! Definitely looks like an interesting road to drive on :)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 18, 2012, 01:12:30 PM
When I was a kid and into my early adult years, a 67-mile section of new freeway would open weekly at one or more locations around the country.  Now look at us!  We are celebrating the completion of a 67-mile section of new freeway at a single location in the United States as if it is something special. It should not be as special as it is.

I realize the interstate system has been built-out for decades and that we don't really need a new 42,000 mile highway system.  But the regulatory/enviornmental/financial hurdles have made it an almost impossibly expensive and time-consuming undertaking to build all but the most trivial projects.  It has taken 7 years to get a series of  signal upgrade projects I have been involved in constructed from conception these days, when using federal funds.

When I hear energy people complain about the long delays in getting drilling permits on federal lands, my reply is that it is no easier or quicker to get a road built.  Sorry for the rant, just had to let it out.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 18, 2012, 03:08:07 PM
It is just that difficulty that makes this a significant event. On the other hand (forgetting the exact quote), Daniels said something to the effect that if you make it a priority, you will succeed - implying that others only paid lip service to the project. The I-69 documentary said more or less the same thing. Whether or not you like the current governor, he found a way to very quickly get this road done. If you grew up in Evansville, you know I-69 has been discussed for decades, but other than route selection, nothing was done to make it happen until 2005. That is remarkable.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 18, 2012, 03:20:20 PM
As an ex-resident of Indiana and somebody who grew up in Evansville, I think Daniels is the best governor of the state at least since Otis Bowen.  I am glad he is going to be president of Purdue when he is done with being governor.  It does take the push of high elected officials to cut through the obsticles that are in front of any major project these days.  The money from the Toll Road lease didn't hurt either.
Title: Governor Daniels Proclaims this Saturday as Interstate 69 Community Day
Post by: mukade on October 18, 2012, 06:38:39 PM
INDOT lists the details of the festivities this Saturday here (http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=59745&information_id=120564&type=&syndicate=syndicate). If anyone is going to more than one event, it looks like it makes sense to start north and go south as the two northern ones start at 9:00 am EDT. Going south, the next two start an hour later, and the one at SR 64 begins three hours later than the two northern events.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: WrkHrse on October 18, 2012, 11:12:54 PM
Harding would go straight through; the southbound lanes of SR 37 would be retained for local access between Harding and Epler.
That's what I was wondering. Thanks!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on October 19, 2012, 11:42:18 AM
Harding would go straight through; the southbound lanes of SR 37 would be retained for local access between Harding and Epler.
That's what I was wondering. Thanks!
Somehow, I was thinking the exact same thing!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 19, 2012, 10:23:54 PM
It looks like they will moving the west moving exit to Harding street quite a bit farther back, this should keep backup's off of 465 and they should have done this a long time ago.  It looks like you stay on 465 west and exit just to 69 south just past the harding bridge

What could be a problem is people exiting 69 onto 465 east very close to Harding street which always backs up, I hope they find a way to make exiting from 69 to 465 east seemless
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I decided to go down to the I-69 open house, and was a bit surprised at how much work is left to do.

Where it looks good: SR 168, SR 64, and US 231 interchanges look fairly close. The former two look completely signed and the latter still needs the BGSes.

Where it looks dicey: US 50 looks the worst with paving on US 50 itself not done, paving (and even final grading) on two ramps not done, and a myriad of other things to do. SR 56/SR 61 and SR 58 are also not done. They are also still paving shoulders on the mainline in places.

None of the new road from SR 68 all the way to US 231 is striped yet.

The weather was mostly heavy overcast, so I still need to see if I took any picturesI took are worth posting.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on October 20, 2012, 05:49:13 PM
Looks like they are really going for the very end of the year. I'm curious, are the BGSs you saw consistant based on the plans that we've seen?
Title: I-69 at SR 168 Photos
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 07:46:15 PM
Here are some pictures taken at the SR 168 interchange. This interchange was the only one without a community day and it looked done except for striping and maybe lighting - I will assume this interchange may not have lights because it is a minor state road not near any town.

I could not get any pictures of the green directional signs.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR168-1.jpg)
Northbound from SR 168 overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR168-2.jpg)
Southbound from SR 168 overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR168-3.jpg)
Eastbound SR 168 at I-69 overpass

Title: I-69 at SR 64 Photos
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 08:43:12 PM
Here are some pictures taken at the SR 64 interchange just west of Oakland City. This interchange had a community day celebration, but it started latest of the five events so I did not go to it. As with all interchanges, the highway was not striped and there were no lights, but it looked very close to being complete.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR64-1.jpg)
Northbound from SR 64 overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR64-3.jpg)
Southbound from SR 64 overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR64-2.jpg)
Northbound from CR 350S overpass looking toward SR 64

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR57-1.jpg)
Northbound SR 57 at I-69 overpass - interesting because you can see all the paving equipment still in use. To the right of SR 57 under the bridge are still many pieces of construction equipment.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 20, 2012, 09:49:42 PM
Great pictures, Thanks

I see on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_69_in_Indiana

it shows the exits quite a bit down the page but what is puzzling is that they show an exit at state road 356 in Petersburg but the indiana construction map shows the exit a bit farther north of 356 http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Section-2.pdf

does anyone know the proposed exit numbers for the Washington (U.S. 50), Plainville (SR 58) and U.S 231 exits?
Title: I-69 in Petersburg Photos
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 09:59:38 PM
Three state roads cross I-69 in Petersburg. SR 56 and SR 61 are concurrent and there is an interchange there. SR 356 simply crosses I-69 without an interchange.

The SR 56/SR 61 interchange is very difficult to stop to get photos of due to the barriers so I don't have real good pictures. The paving on the ramps is not fully complete, the paving of the shoulders on the mainline are not done, and a lot of mud (i.e. not seeded) still exists. Nonetheless, I was surprised how close to complete this is as construction on this section started in late spring 2011. When I drove down in May 2012, the overpass was far from complete.

This was one of the two events I stopped at. It seemed to be well attended, but people did not seem to stay long as the temperature was 49 degrees and it was spitting rain.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR61-3.jpg)
Southbound from SR 356 toward SR 61/SR 56 interchange

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR61-2.jpg)
Northbound from SR 356

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR61-5.jpg)
Westbound SR 356 at I-69

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR61-1.jpg)
At the community event, I took this picture showing the shoulder is not yet complete

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR61-4.jpg)
None of the ramps at the SR 61/SR 56 interchange are  100% done and SR 61/SR 56 itself is also not completed. I suppose that could happen in the spring. The signage on the northbound side by the community event was still not erected.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 20, 2012, 10:15:36 PM
Thanks for the Info, The wikipedia shows an exit at 356 they must have info wrong but it looks like there is an exit a mile north if you check the link I put in my last email for section 2
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 10:25:28 PM
Thanks for the Info, The wikipedia shows an exit at 356 they must have info wrong but it looks like there is an exit a mile north if you check the link I put in my last email for section 2

That would be one of the two postponed interchanges to keep the project within budget. It was a sore point in that the coal trucks will still have to go through downtown Petersburg on their way to the IPL power station.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on October 21, 2012, 12:07:37 AM
Are parts of I-69 final paved with asphalt instead of concrete?

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 21, 2012, 12:14:19 AM
Are parts of I-69 final paved with asphalt instead of concrete?

Mike

Yes. It goes back and forth between the two, but is mostly concrete.
Title: I-69 at US 231
Post by: mukade on October 21, 2012, 12:19:23 AM
The interchange at US 231 looks like it is fairly close to completion despite some obvious unfinished items like the concrete barriers and lack of directional signage. Some of the local roads are also not yet complete. East of 231 is more rugged, and you can see the road going up a hill on the east side of this interchange.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-4.jpg)
Northbound (looking east) toward the temporary terminus interchange of US 231

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-5.jpg)
Southbound US 231 at I-69 - the concrete barriers on the bridge have not been poured

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-2.jpg)
Southbound (looking west) entrance to I-69 from US 231

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-3.jpg)
Southbound exit (looking east from US 231) - this ramp will not open to traffic until 2014

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-1.jpg)
The community event here featured antique vehicles and emergency equipment. Even though I know Crane NSA is near this interchange, I did a double take when I saw a US Navy fire truck, but Crane is actually the third largest Navy base (at 62,000 acres) despite being landlocked.
Title: I-69 at US 50 Photos
Post by: mukade on October 21, 2012, 09:55:12 AM
The US 50 interchange in Washington seemed to be the most problematic. The westbound lanes of US 50 are missing curbing and shoulders and the ramps on the north side  really look like they will be tough to complete on time (especially with all the rain recently). Then again, the contractor is Walsh Construction who built the short duration Allisonvile Road and Super 70 projects. Nevertheless, the lack of progress was surprising, and the fact that many crews were working in the moderate rain Friday and light rain on Saturday indicates that things aren't quite on schedule. Back in May, this project at US 50 appeared to be on track so the contrast with the rapid progress further south in Petersburg was surprising to me.

Up on the main road, you could see a crane and concrete truck with a large crew at work. I have no idea how close the mainline is. On the plus side, most of the directional signing was in place. The weather was dreary and it is difficult to take pictures in this congested area so apologies for the lackluster shots.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US50-2.jpg)
Laying concrete for the crossover to the northbound entrance. Note the condition of the ramp in the background.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US50-3.jpg)
Going west on US 50 looking at the future westbound lanes. No median and westbound shoulders/curbing exist in the

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US50-1.jpg)
A lot of activity was still ongoing on I-69 itself
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: dirtroad66 on October 21, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
I went to the Gibson County festival and then drove north to US 50. I don't know if mid to late Nov opening is possible, still a lot to be done. Great pictures considering the weather yesterday.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 21, 2012, 12:57:49 PM
Based on the photos posted here, I don't see how the entire section of I-69  north to 231 is going to be open anytime within the month of November.  In fact, I would not be shocked to see all or some of it open sometime if the first quarter of '13, depending on the weather.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 21, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
Based on the photos posted here, I don't see how the entire section of I-69  north to 231 is going to be open anytime within the month of November.  In fact, I would not be shocked to see all or some of it open sometime if the first quarter of '13, depending on the weather.

They are cutting it close, but I would not be surprised either way. A couple of things: first, I think the target was by the end of this year. In Indiana, the construction season could end in late November, but usually you can do some work until about December 10. Second, I would think it could open up to Petersburg or Washington without too much trouble even if weather was really bad. The part that looked really iffy is just north of US 50 (including the ramps on the north side). Even so, I could see the whole section to Crane opening even though more than minor wrap-up work would remain for spring. The weather would have to be somewhat decent, but if they are working seven days a week, they should have time.

Below are some pictures from the SR 58 interchange.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR58-1.jpg)
Southbound from SR 58, This is the biggest area that looks like a typical Indiana flat freeway.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR58-2.jpg)
Looking north from SR 58
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 21, 2012, 10:55:13 PM
Great pictures, mukade. Thanks from those of us that couldn't make it down.

The Build I-69 web site has just published some aerial photos, courtesy of State Rep. Wendy McNamara: http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1691 (http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1691). Perhaps someone who has seen the construction can provide a better description of what is pictured. Captions like "I-69 Section 2, Segment 2" aren't very meaningful to me. I know I could check the INDOT project page and figure it out, but I don't have the time right now.
Title: Re: I-69 at US 231
Post by: mgk920 on October 22, 2012, 02:31:54 AM
I'd love to be able to make this, but....

 :-(

I still remember the fun of the open house weekend activities right before the part of WI 441 in Calumet and Outagamie Counties here in Appleton opened in late 1993 - and then the freeway opened to normal traffic early the following Monday morning.


(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--US231-1.jpg)
The community event here featured antique vehicles and emergency equipment. Even though I know Crane NSA is near this interchange, I did a double take when I saw a US Navy fire truck, but Crane is actually the third largest Navy base (at 62,000 acres) despite being landlocked.

Fire truck manufactured by Pierce Manufacturing http://www.piercemfg.com , located right along US 41(I-xx) here in the Appleton, WI area.  They have had an ongoing contract with the USNavy for many years now.

 :cool:

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on October 22, 2012, 02:39:43 AM
US 50 - that's the one where one of the main I-69 promoters owns the land in three quadrants, right?
Title: I-69 Section 4 progress
Post by: mukade on October 22, 2012, 08:07:36 PM
Finally, the SR 45 interchange on section 4 (due to open in 2014) is also well along. Up the highway, SR 45 is closed for the construction of the SR 445/I-69 connector. It looks as if a good chunk of SR 445 will also be rebuilt as part of that project.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR45-2.jpg)
Bridge over SR 45 in Greene County
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 22, 2012, 08:29:55 PM
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR58-1.jpg)
Southbound from SR 58, This is the biggest area that looks like a typical Indiana flat freeway.

A bouncy castle on an interstate highway?  Now I've seen everything.  :-D
Maybe they're experimenting with new crash barriers!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 23, 2012, 02:05:20 PM
Retired from the Navy and Crane was one of the hard sought after shore duty jobs in my rating. It is far away from any other big Navy base so much less stressful than the big Navy bases in Virginia. Glad they named bridges after military folks. I HATE bridges and roads being named after living politicians (yes you Robert Byrd and Kit Bond).

 http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/indiana/I69-bridges-in-SW-Ind-named-for-honored-soldiers
Title: I-69 Shows up on Google Maps
Post by: mukade on October 23, 2012, 08:10:02 PM
Except for a section between SR 68 and SR 168, I-69 in Indiana has made its way on to Google Maps.

It beat SR 25 from Lafayette to Delphi even though that opens tomorrow - and I-69 looks to be weeks away from opening.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 23, 2012, 08:49:42 PM
Retired from the Navy and Crane was one of the hard sought after shore duty jobs in my rating. It is far away from any other big Navy base so much less stressful than the big Navy bases in Virginia. Glad they named bridges after military folks. I HATE bridges and roads being named after living politicians (yes you Robert Byrd and Kit Bond).

 http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/indiana/I69-bridges-in-SW-Ind-named-for-honored-soldiers

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2zegdqt.png)
Title: Re: I-69 Shows up on Google Maps
Post by: theline on October 23, 2012, 08:54:03 PM
Except for a section between SR 68 and SR 168, I-69 in Indiana has made its way on to Google Maps.

It beat SR 25 from Lafayette to Delphi even though that opens tomorrow - and I-69 looks to be weeks away from opening.

It looks like somebody drew it in with a yellow crayon.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 24, 2012, 08:42:01 AM
Good name for any bridge or interchange in the Bloomington area.

This gentleman was from the Bloomington area.

http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_1940_wwii/kisters.html
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on October 24, 2012, 12:22:36 PM
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR58-1.jpg)
Southbound from SR 58, This is the biggest area that looks like a typical Indiana flat freeway.

A bouncy castle on an interstate highway?  Now I've seen everything.  :-D
Maybe they're experimenting with new crash barriers!  :biggrin:
That is so funny, I can't control it  :rofl:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 24, 2012, 08:24:55 PM
Except for a section between SR 68 and SR 168, I-69 in Indiana has made its way on to Google Maps.

It beat SR 25 from Lafayette to Delphi even though that opens tomorrow - and I-69 looks to be weeks away from opening.

As quickly as it came to Google Maps yesterday, I-69 in southern Indiana is gone today.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 25, 2012, 05:13:27 PM
I am curious why it takes 2 years to complete 36 miles from Crane to 37 when they finished 70 miles from Evansville to Crane in 2 years
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: sd72667 on October 25, 2012, 05:56:30 PM
I am curious why it takes 2 years to complete 36 miles from Crane to 37 when they finished 70 miles from Evansville to Crane in 2 years
I'm guessing less bridges, overpasses to build.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on October 25, 2012, 05:59:13 PM
One word: hills. Look at a shaded relief map of Indiana, the western half of Greene County is mostly flat and once you head to the eastern half it gets hilly. Monroe County is no different in topography.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 25, 2012, 08:28:28 PM
One word: hills. Look at a shaded relief map of Indiana, the western half of Greene County is mostly flat and once you head to the eastern half it gets hilly. Monroe County is no different in topography.

And limestone. Section 4 construction will be challenging and expensive. Look at the pile of rocks where they are digging out the SR 45 overpass and interchange.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR45-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on October 26, 2012, 06:47:57 PM

And limestone. Section 4 construction will be challenging and expensive. Look at the pile of rocks where they are digging out the SR 45 overpass and interchange.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Const--SR45-3.jpg)

With all that limestone, they could build a huge statue of Mitch. Pretty appropriate use, I think.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on October 26, 2012, 08:41:31 PM
Well said folks!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on October 27, 2012, 11:32:30 AM
With the next 27 miles being much more hilly. Sounds like some great fall driving like I-64 west of Corydon, In and east Evansville. If you have never driven it in fall try it. Almost like WV with very light traffic and a lot of great views.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on October 28, 2012, 11:35:08 PM
Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on October 29, 2012, 12:15:57 AM
Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?

The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Good luck!

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 29, 2012, 05:49:35 AM
Looking to check out I-69 construction next week. I know I can take IN 57 as far north as Washington and generally follow the route, and take a few of the intersecting routes over to see the exits. Once I get to Washington, what's the best routing for me to take to see what's going on with I-69? Just how far north is construction underway now?

North of Washington is more problematic. When I checked the construction out in May, I ended up going down a number of gravel (and some paved) roads in Greene and Daviess Counties. I didn't really look at a map, I just generally zigzagged from north to south so I couldn't say what county roads I followed. The only views were at overpasses. Also, I never explored areas from Petersburg to Washington so I can't say what you might see there.

I have not strayed from the SR 45 between Crane and Bloomington, but you will see construction at SR 45 and SR 445. SR 45 is closed at SR 445 so the relatively short detour is SR 54 to SR 445. I assume the overpass at SR 54 south of Cincinnati is also well underway. I think I-69 is under construction for four miles east of US 231 followed by a gap of four miles (the section where bids were rejected) followed by four or five contracts that take you to Bloomington. When I went to the community day, I checked out SR 37 itself looking for evidence in interchange construction, but all I saw were a few survey stakes.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on October 29, 2012, 10:58:30 AM
The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's, because Google shows the construction running out at Petersburg.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on October 29, 2012, 11:27:59 AM
Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's
That has generally been my experience.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on October 29, 2012, 11:32:29 AM
The best that I can say is to go to Bing Maps aerial images and you can trace the construction and side road accesses there.  There is construction northeast of US 231 and some of it is shown in those Bing images, but as to how close to Bloomington it goes, I'm not sure.

Then Bing's aerial imagery is more recent than Google's, because Google shows the construction running out at Petersburg.

Bing's is much more recent and shows the construction going all the way to US 231 along with some segments from there to Bloomington.

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 30, 2012, 04:30:39 PM
For section 5 from Bloomington to Martinsville...

Quote
“The DEIS shows that I-69 is both feasible and constructable while minimizing environmental impacts,” INDOT Deputy Commissioner Samuel Sarvis said in a statement. “Indiana is a national leader in innovative highway financing and construction, and INDOT is exploring all options to continue delivering this critical project at record speed.”

INDOT Releases New I-69 Environmental Impact Statement (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-environmental-impact-statement-released-39037/) (Indiana Public Media)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on October 31, 2012, 07:48:51 AM
New $500 million estimate for I-69 segment is $100 million higher than previous one (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/oct/30/i-69-hed-herp/) (Evansville Courier & Press)

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on October 31, 2012, 10:57:55 PM
Based on the above article, a new editoral from the Indianapolis Star suggests that they should just stop the interstate at Bloomington, perhaps for the long haul. It's only an editorial, but it basically suggests to leave SR 37 as it is and focus on other projects.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121031/OPINION08/211010325/Editorial-Take-bypass-final-69-leg?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com%7Cs&nclick_check=1
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 01, 2012, 09:34:57 PM
The Indy Star has been consistently slanted towards CARR's view, IMO so I don't take them seriously.

That said, once I-69 meets SR 37, a case could be made that US 31 is at least as important to the state as I-69 is. Traffic counts and (lack of) safety should dictate priorities. I am not sure of any other major road projects that are of critical importance to the state.

While I feel I-69 through Bloomington should be completed ASAP, I think construction of I-69 in the Indy area is more important to build than around Martinsville.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on November 02, 2012, 09:01:02 AM
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=56447

Governor Mitch Daniels and the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) today announced that the first three sections of the new Interstate 69 corridor in southwest Indiana will officially open for business before the Thanksgiving travel holiday on the afternoon of Monday, Nov. 19. The highly anticipated grand opening will cover a 67-mile stretch that completes what has been the longest contiguous ongoing interstate construction project in the United States.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on November 02, 2012, 11:37:48 AM
Here's an excerpt from aforementioned Indy Star article:

Quote
While state officials continue to insist that the extension of I-69 past Bloomington makes economic sense, the latest news reinforces a compelling argument to the contrary.

A draft environmental impact statement estimates that the cost of the Bloomington-to-Martinsville segment could go as high as $545.6 million. That's $100 million more than the previous high estimate.

The governor's office replies that the previous four legs of the Southern Indiana highway came in well under estimates and there's no reason to expect this one to be any different.

Even if that's so, a problem remains: The state doesn't have money for further work on I-69 after it reaches Bloomington from its origin in Evansville, projected by 2014.

As new funds are sought, Gov. Mitch Daniels says an indefinite halt at Bloomington might make sense. Others, including elected officials from both parties and many residents and businesspeople in Monroe, Morgan, Johnson and Marion counties, prefer that the stop be definite.

They have a strong case. The current route between Indianapolis and Bloomington, Ind. 37, is a highly serviceable four-lane divided highway that could be maintained, repaired and enhanced at a fraction of the cost of turning it into I-69. That latter cost, for widening to interstate specifications, building interchanges and acquiring property, would be staggering for the 21 mostly rural miles from Bloomington to Martinsville; and far greater for the leg linking it to the densely developed Southside of Indianapolis. Add in the loss of taxable real estate, especially along urban stretches, and the upside becomes elusive.

When more highway money becomes available, there will be many uses for it. Indiana is cross-hatched with multilane divided roads, from state and federal highways to the six interstates; and upkeep and improvements on them as well as on hundreds of miles of other infrastructure make far more fiscal sense than adding to the $1.5 billion already spent on a corridor to Evansville, one that will be all but accomplished once I-69 connects with Ind. 37 near Bloomington.

I agree with most of this assessment, although the conversion of IN 37 to at least freeway/expressway standards should not be that complicated, given its current four-lane divided status. Also, if I-69 does end at Bloomington permanently without connecting back to Indy, it could be a while before some sort of resolution is reached. I have a feeling that the Hoosier Heartland project will be done before the Bloomington-Indy connection is.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 02, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
The Hoosier Heartland project is supposed to be finished next year, of course it will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy connection is, hell it will be finished before the Bloomington-Crane connection is done. SR 37 from B-town to Indy is already an expressway, it's the conversion to freeway status that will be the issue. You have to find a way to make the highway limited-access which means that all those who do live off of SR 37 or have businesses on 37 will have to be dealt with. That is where the extra money is going to be needed. That's why the I-70/US 41 option was not a good idea, you'd have to freeway-ize US 41 from Terre Haute to I-64, a longer distance than SR 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis.

The one thing that might, MIGHT make this a decent option for the short term, leaving SR 37 as it is, is the fact that even once I-69 is built to Bloomington, it is still not a cross-country highway. With large chunks left in Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas (I'm generalizing here, I know some parts are finished) it will still be a long time before I-69 becomes a true cross-country highway in a way like I-5, I-25, I-75 and I-95. Traffic on the new I-69 I am going to guess won't be incrediably high, maybe similar to I-64 and I-74 across Indiana, so SR 37 will be okay for the moment. I still believe that the stretch through Bloomington should be made into a freeway-like highway (interchange at Tapp, bridges at the other crossings.) Also, one other thought, I wonder if we can just build a freeway bypass around Martinsville, similar to the new US 31 around the current US 31 around Kokomo.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 02, 2012, 07:52:12 PM
According to Wikipedia here are the exit numbers

I64                    21
SR57/68            22
SR168                27
SR64                  33
SR56/61             46
SR 356              not nubmered yet and may not be an exit
US50-150          62

does anyone know the exit numbers for the state road 58 exit and the 231 exit

it looks like there will be a 13 mile stretch with no exits between 64 and 56 and 16 miles from 56 to 50/150

That is a long stretch between exits, makes you wonder if they plan to add exits between at a later date or put a rest stop in between one of those.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 02, 2012, 11:30:59 PM
According to Wikipedia here are the exit numbers

I64                    21
SR57/68            22
SR168                27
SR64                  33
SR56/61             46
SR 356              not nubmered yet and may not be an exit
US50-150          62

does anyone know the exit numbers for the state road 58 exit and the 231 exit

it looks like there will be a 13 mile stretch with no exits between 64 and 56 and 16 miles from 56 to 50/150

That is a long stretch between exits, makes you wonder if they plan to add exits between at a later date or put a rest stop in between one of those.

1) SR 356 does not have an interchange, and AFAIK, none was ever planned for it. I saw a newspaper article say the same thing so they must read Wikipedia, too.
2) I-64 and SR 68 exit numbers you show are based on I-164. When the first short section opened, SR 68 was marked as exit 22, but subsequently, the text was removed from the sign (the exit tab has no text at all). This was still the case when I went down on October 20. I assume it would be a mile less than it was.
3) North of US 50:

  76   SR 58 (Odon-Elnora)
  87   US 231 (Bloomfield-Crane)
  98   SR 45
 104   SR 445
 114   SR 37
 
4) Future exits are planned north of Petersburg (not SR 356) and north of Washington (I think this one would have a rest area at the interchange). These are likely years away from reality.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 03, 2012, 05:49:24 PM
Thanks a lot, where did you find the exit numbers?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on November 03, 2012, 08:09:01 PM
The Hoosier Heartland project is supposed to be finished next year, of course it will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy connection is, hell it will be finished before the Bloomington-Crane connection is done. SR 37 from B-town to Indy is already an expressway, it's the conversion to freeway status that will be the issue. You have to find a way to make the highway limited-access which means that all those who do live off of SR 37 or have businesses on 37 will have to be dealt with. That is where the extra money is going to be needed. That's why the I-70/US 41 option was not a good idea, you'd have to freeway-ize US 41 from Terre Haute to I-64, a longer distance than SR 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis.

The one thing that might, MIGHT make this a decent option for the short term, leaving SR 37 as it is, is the fact that even once I-69 is built to Bloomington, it is still not a cross-country highway. With large chunks left in Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas (I'm generalizing here, I know some parts are finished) it will still be a long time before I-69 becomes a true cross-country highway in a way like I-5, I-25, I-75 and I-95. Traffic on the new I-69 I am going to guess won't be incrediably high, maybe similar to I-64 and I-74 across Indiana, so SR 37 will be okay for the moment. I still believe that the stretch through Bloomington should be made into a freeway-like highway (interchange at Tapp, bridges at the other crossings.) Also, one other thought, I wonder if we can just build a freeway bypass around Martinsville, similar to the new US 31 around the current US 31 around Kokomo.
I take it back. With all the protests going on along IN 37 as well as the not-yet-begun Ohio River Bridges project, in addition to the issues cited above, there may never be a cross-country I-69 for decades. I'll take another shot in the dark and say that I-73 from Roanoke to Myrtle Beach will be finished before the Bloomington-Indy segment of I-69 ever is.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 03, 2012, 09:39:02 PM
if they raise the speed limit on 37 to 70mph and close off all the driveways and build bridges or close off side roads that would be fine for a while
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: digitalphiltv on November 04, 2012, 01:36:06 AM
While a completed run from Evansville to Indy via I-69 would be nice, I currently could care less... All I really wanted to see was the "proper"  ... uhm ...  :pan: ... mileage and exit numbers  :spin: ... going up between Indy and Michigan. Any number greater than zero at I-465 gives a sign that I-69 is a freeway waiting to happen. I do wish they would have been more exact with the new numbers though. Adding 200 is just lazy... Do you hear me INDOT... I said YOU ARE LAZY :-)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 04, 2012, 01:54:40 AM
It's not that INDOT is lazy, it's that they assume regular people are. The whole point of the 200 thing was to make it easier on people who couldn't do the math from 184. But I've dicussed this before, all I will hope for is that they change the numbers again once the entire interstate is finished plus the Ohio River Bridges.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on November 04, 2012, 09:00:44 AM
I doubt they will.  If I were INDOT, I'd make the number such that they would incorporate that section without changes.  Why resign multiple times?

Plus that would be more confusing than just doing it right the first time.  In the IT world it's called "legacy deadwood", and we're stuck with it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 04, 2012, 10:29:46 AM
Utah did a useless renumbering several years ago, changing numbers by 1 or 2 to match the as-built mileage. Alabama did something similar to I-565.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 04, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
Very recently, a similar thing happened to the Natcher Parkway in Kentucky, over two extra miles of new highway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: PurdueBill on November 04, 2012, 11:44:21 AM
Why bother renumbering it?  If the mileage and exit numbers for 69 are done as for 74 on the 465 overlap, hidden under 465's mileage and exit numbers, even resetting at zero at the southern 65 interchange, it isn't going to be a big deal.  The exact routing is unknown for sure right now but the exits on existing 69 had to be numbered to avoid duplication with new 69.  Numbering with too much slack instead of too little was sensible so there wouldn't wind up being duplication if the final segments built were longer than expected.  200 made sense to make the math instant so people can just drive instead of spending one millisecond on addition.

If the exact final routing of 69 all the way were known now, then so would the mileage and then the exact mileage could have been added on to existing 69.  But with so many unknowns, they had to leave some slack.  Renumbering new exit numbers to account for a couple miles difference is silly when that will introduce new new exit numbers that may duplicate old new exit numbers.  Tennessee rerouted I-40 and wound up with mile 1, mile 1A, mile 1B to fudge and not have to renumber everything....Indiana isn't doing anything worse.  How much traffic is following all of I-69?  It's probably not enough to worry that much about renumbering miles and exits again and again, especially with the 465 overlap.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 05, 2012, 09:29:39 PM
Did INDOT ever consider building the Bloomington to Indy portion of the road on new alignment? I can't find historical info on route alternatives on the project web site.

It would be interesting to see a cost comparison. At first blush, you'd think that new alignment would cost a lot more, but there are some mitigating factors:

Does anyone know about whether a new alignment was considered?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 05, 2012, 09:40:38 PM
Checked out the I-69 construction at various points today between Evansville and Crane. Workers were out in full-force, but they are still going to have to hustle to get the road open to US 231 by Thanksgiving.

Looks like the control city for northbound I-69 is going to be "I-69 north," best I could tell from what little lettering was revealed on the signs that are up but covered over.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 05, 2012, 10:18:13 PM
Eventually the control city should be Indianapolis, though Bloomington may be used in the short term.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 05, 2012, 10:39:48 PM
Obviously Crane wasn't considered a prominent enough berg to qualify as a control city.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 05, 2012, 10:52:37 PM
Did INDOT ever consider building the Bloomington to Indy portion of the road on new alignment? I can't find historical info on route alternatives on the project web site.

It would be interesting to see a cost comparison. At first blush, you'd think that new alignment would cost a lot more, but there are some mitigating factors:
  • Along the SR-37 route, ROW would have to be purchased most of the way for frontage roads, exits, etc. I'd think that ROW, including existing homes and businesses, would be much more expensive per acre than along a new alignment.
  • Fewer exits would be required along new alignment, and less critical ones could have construction deferred. Local motorists rely on SR-37 and will still need access if it's converted, leading to many more exits than on a new road.
  • New alignment would permit a toll option, if funding can't be found. It was pointed out up-thread that users would mightily object if free SR-37 were converted to a toll road. A new alignment allows 37 to remain free.
  • Upgrading the existing road would be highly disruptive to existing traffic, and nearby residents and businesses. Not so for the new alignment. (Not a direct cost to the government, but still a cost factor.)

Does anyone know about whether a new alignment was considered?

Of course, but in some areas like Bloomington it makes no sense at all.

Quote
INDOT has suggested that the current northbound lanes of SR37 could become an access road for businesses along the east side of I-69. Businesses such as Oliver Winery, Worm’s Way, and Thompson Furniture would use those roads to connect with an interchange of I-69.
 
The current southbound lane of SR37 would then be upgraded to interstate specifications and used at the new northbound lanes, and a new set of southbound lanes would be built to the west.

INDOT Taking Input On I-69 Details (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-input-i69-details-29487/) (from April)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on November 06, 2012, 12:49:05 PM
Indiana Public Media (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-officials-propose-i69sr-37-interchange-options-27386/) reports (with plan diagrams) that INDOT is proposing two I-69/ SR 37 interchange options

This November 1 Indiana Public Media article (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/local-company-wins-bid-build-trumpet-i69-interchange-39184/) reports that the trumpet option has been chosen and that a contractor has been selected to build it:

Quote
Bloomington based Crider & Crider Inc. will build the interchange that will connect Interstate 69 to S.R. 37 just south of Bloomington.
After looking at several options, the Indiana Department of Transportation decided on a ‘trumpet’ style of interchange for the road.
According to a release from INDOT, the trumpet will allow traffic to move through the interchange at a higher speed than some of the other designs that were previously on the table.
The interchange saw a bit of controversy last year when some members of the Bloomington, Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization accused INDOT and federal highway officials of wanting to put a stoplight there, instead of interstate style on/off ramps. INDOT says the stoplight plan has been off the table for some time.
The intersection will cost around $29 million to build, which according to INDOT, is about 10-percent less than an engineer’s original estimate. The stretch of I-69 from NSA Crane to Bloomington is expected to be open by 2014. INDOT says the next section of the road, which will connect Bloomington to Martinsville, could begin construction by 2013.
(http://i.imgur.com/fMHq7.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 06, 2012, 03:16:08 PM
Eventually the control city should be Indianapolis, though Bloomington may be used in the short term.

It is demountable copy, so the change should be OK. However, they could have used Indianapolis anyway, because there are a couple of options from Crane to Indy that are do-able.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 06, 2012, 05:12:19 PM
Drove over 69 via CR 200 N in Daviess County yesterday and noticed the center line is striped and guard-railing is in place.
Also, the majority of the paving is complete at the US 50 interchange. There are still a few small areas that still need concrete, but I'd say that will be complete this week. Today, they were asphalting the median of US 50. From what I could tell, the ramps are done except for the shoulders. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 06, 2012, 05:16:35 PM
Did INDOT ever consider building the Bloomington to Indy portion of the road on new alignment? I can't find historical info on route alternatives on the project web site.

It would be interesting to see a cost comparison. At first blush, you'd think that new alignment would cost a lot more, but there are some mitigating factors:
  • Along the SR-37 route, ROW would have to be purchased most of the way for frontage roads, exits, etc. I'd think that ROW, including existing homes and businesses, would be much more expensive per acre than along a new alignment.
  • Fewer exits would be required along new alignment, and less critical ones could have construction deferred. Local motorists rely on SR-37 and will still need access if it's converted, leading to many more exits than on a new road.
  • New alignment would permit a toll option, if funding can't be found. It was pointed out up-thread that users would mightily object if free SR-37 were converted to a toll road. A new alignment allows 37 to remain free.
  • Upgrading the existing road would be highly disruptive to existing traffic, and nearby residents and businesses. Not so for the new alignment. (Not a direct cost to the government, but still a cost factor.)

Does anyone know about whether a new alignment was considered?

Of course, but in some areas like Bloomington it makes no sense at all.


Agreed. The only sensible route through Bloomington is along the existing SR-37. I was arguing that new terrain north of Bloomington should be considered.

I didn't see any alternatives using new terrain for areas north of Bloomington, except the last few miles south of 465. Was it ever considered?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 06, 2012, 06:25:56 PM
Several routes were considered at the outset (back in the early 2000s), the current route was selected by INDOT, and was then approved by the Feds. Making a major change at this late stage, would be problematic and would probably be a last resort option. Of course the CARR people still want the route changed to follow US 41 and I-70. For them, hope springs eternal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 06, 2012, 10:01:40 PM
Several routes were considered at the outset (back in the early 2000s), the current route was selected by INDOT, and was then approved by the Feds. Making a major change at this late stage, would be problematic and would probably be a last resort option. Of course the CARR people still want the route changed to follow US 41 and I-70. For them, hope springs eternal.

The US 41/ I-70 route never made any sense, its current routing is the most logical.  Also I believe that the previous idea was a roundabout interchange at SR 37.  I personally think that was a terrible idea, the trumpet is much better for high speed travel. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on November 07, 2012, 10:40:12 AM
It's not that INDOT is lazy, it's that they assume regular people are. The whole point of the 200 thing was to make it easier on people who couldn't do the math from 184. But I've dicussed this before, all I will hope for is that they change the numbers again once the entire interstate is finished plus the Ohio River Bridges.
I'm sure they will.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 07, 2012, 10:56:30 AM
Or they could make the exit numbers on the new part of I-69 be off by the same amount, so they start at ~15 in Evansville…
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 07, 2012, 04:09:38 PM
Several routes were considered at the outset (back in the early 2000s), the current route was selected by INDOT, and was then approved by the Feds. Making a major change at this late stage, would be problematic and would probably be a last resort option. Of course the CARR people still want the route changed to follow US 41 and I-70. For them, hope springs eternal.

The US 41/ I-70 route never made any sense, its current routing is the most logical.  Also I believe that the previous idea was a roundabout interchange at SR 37.  I personally think that was a terrible idea, the trumpet is much better for high speed travel.

"[T]he CARR people"? Who are they? I missed something.

A roundabout at SR-37? I'd like some of whatever they were smoking when they thought that up. I'd have to move to Colorado though.  :spin:
Thank goodness they reconsidered.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on November 07, 2012, 04:58:04 PM
Indiana Public Media (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-officials-propose-i69sr-37-interchange-options-27386/) reports (with plan diagrams) that INDOT is proposing two I-69/ SR 37 interchange options
A roundabout at SR-37? I'd like some of whatever they were smoking when they thought that up.

FWIW here is the roundabout design that had been under consideration:
(http://i.imgur.com/lirrL.jpg) (http://imgur.com/lirrL)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 07, 2012, 07:28:05 PM
Indiana Public Media (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-officials-propose-i69sr-37-interchange-options-27386/) reports (with plan diagrams) that INDOT is proposing two I-69/ SR 37 interchange options


The captions on the pictures are reversed, right? It's the roundabouts that cost less, but require traffic to slow to 20 MPH. The trumpet allows traffic to continue close to freeway speed, but is more expensive. That's the only way it makes sense.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 07, 2012, 08:39:30 PM
"[T]he CARR people"? Who are they? I missed something.

CARR = Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads

They are the very outspoken I-69 people led by Tom Tokarski. Almost any article about I-69 in Indiana quotes this group.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 07, 2012, 11:24:32 PM
Chumps
Against
Real
Roads
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 08, 2012, 02:17:17 PM
Thanks for the explanation mukade, and also for the alternate name Shawn.

I must confess that I skip over the drivel from the folks stuck in the horse-and-buggy days. I'm content that they'll eventually run out of gas and progress will happen anyway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 08, 2012, 02:28:23 PM
As I said before it will only be a matter of time before these CARR people are driving on I-69. I sooooooo want a picture of that.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 08, 2012, 02:48:00 PM
I must confess that I skip over the drivel from the folks stuck in the horse-and-buggy days. I'm content that they'll eventually run out of gas and progress will happen anyway.
Actually horse-and-buggy owners will be well off when gas runs out. :spin:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 08, 2012, 03:03:12 PM
I must confess that I skip over the drivel from the folks stuck in the horse-and-buggy days. I'm content that they'll eventually run out of gas and progress will happen anyway.
Actually horse-and-buggy owners will be well off when gas runs out. :spin:

Good one, but I was really referring to the gas-bags running out of gas, not their horseless carriages.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 08, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
FWIW here is the roundabout design that had been under consideration:
(http://i.imgur.com/lirrL.jpg) (http://imgur.com/lirrL)

That looks like it was drawn freehand.  With great skill, but freehand nonetheless.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 08, 2012, 08:18:19 PM
^ Yes, a very skillful hand drawing. The artist must be some old fart like me, who has always been doing his drawings by hand.

I know it's a moot point, since the trumpet interchange has been selected by INDOT, but I wonder what purpose is served by the two segments that I've marked in red below. If those are removed, the circle is unneeded and that part of the road can be straightened out.

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2v12e7d.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 08, 2012, 09:02:27 PM
At least in the short term, those would be useful for local traffic on SR 37 needing to U-turn.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on November 08, 2012, 09:11:44 PM
FWIW here is the roundabout design that had been under consideration:
http://imgur.com/lirrL (http://imgur.com/lirrL)

That looks like it was drawn freehand.  With great skill, but freehand nonetheless.
Ehhhh. I'd say it was drawn BY hand, but using straightedges and French or English curves. (I think those are like French and English horns.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 08, 2012, 09:27:54 PM
At least in the short term, those would be useful for local traffic on SR 37 needing to U-turn.

I don't think so. Unless I'm seeing this wrong, I-69 is running from the upper left corner to the lower right corner. NB traffic roughly going left to right. SB traffic from right to left. SR-37 approaches from the lower left of the drawing. If a motorist wants to U-turn on 37, he/she just continues across the bridge, looping around the upper roundabout, comes back across the bridge and continues to the lower left. The red segments don't come into play.

The red segments would only be used under two unlikely circumstances: a SB motorist on 69 (right to left) who wants to U-turn to go back north, or a NB motorist on 69 (left to right) who exits and changes his mind, returning to NB 69. I don't think you build roads for either instance.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 08, 2012, 10:14:05 PM
In the short term I-69 will end here. To the right on the map will be only SR 37 until it's upgraded.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 09, 2012, 11:06:36 AM
I would guess that design is meant to allow for another local road connection in the future on the west side of I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 09, 2012, 04:08:36 PM
^ Good point. I give. If they had built the intersection with roundabouts, it would have been a good idea to build them on both sides.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 09, 2012, 04:28:27 PM
Traffic Patterns will Change on U.S. Route 50

WASHINGTON, Ind. -- The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) is announcing that on Monday, November 12, traffic patterns will again change on U.S. Route 50 Washington’s east side.

Sometime after morning rush hour, all four lanes (two east bound and two west bound) of U.S. 50 will now be available for motorists traveling through the area.   

The work in this area has been a part of the I-69 Section 2 corridor construction from the White River to just north of U.S. 50.  The contract was awarded to Walsh Construction, Inc. of LaPorte, Indiana in February of 2011.

I-69 from I-64 in Gibson County to U.S. 231 in Greene County is scheduled to be open to the afternoon hours on Monday, November 19.


Contractors were hanging signs off the overpass this afternoon.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 09, 2012, 09:52:17 PM
I-69 from I-64 in Gibson County to U.S. 231 in Greene County is scheduled to be open to the afternoon hours on Monday, November 19.

Based on what I saw on Monday, they are really going to have to hustle to get it done by then.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 12, 2012, 05:42:33 PM
Funny that after INDOT was criticized for offering too little for land...

Documents raise questions about price of I-69 land purchases (http://www.ibj.com/documents-raise-questions-about-i-69-land-purchases/PARAMS/article/37840) (IBJ)

Then again, the Indy Star has been less than objective on its I-69 coverage.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 12, 2012, 05:53:28 PM
I-69 from I-64 in Gibson County to U.S. 231 in Greene County is scheduled to be open to the afternoon hours on Monday, November 19.

Based on what I saw on Monday, they are really going to have to hustle to get it done by then.

Yea, it wasn't open this afternoon at around 4. It looks complete, except for striping. Contractors were erecting signs (stop, one-way, I-69 shields, etc.) when I drove through at that time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Chris on November 16, 2012, 07:06:11 AM
I was wondering about the I-69 opening next Monday. It is a 67-mile segment that opens. This must be one of the biggest single freeway openings in a very long time. How long ago did a similar or longer freeway open to traffic? It may well be in the 1980s or before I think?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: seicer on November 16, 2012, 08:29:20 AM
The 1988 opening of I-64 in West Virginia was 36 miles: http://goo.gl/maps/lI9Nz. But it's no 67-miler.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 16, 2012, 03:16:37 PM
I know what I am doing Monday.

Good to be the boss and sked yourself for a historic moment.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 16, 2012, 03:45:43 PM
I have to work Monday and Tuesday, but come Wednesday I'll be making an impromptu visit to Evansville. I wonder what road I might take....
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on November 16, 2012, 03:54:59 PM
I have to work Monday-Wednesday, and it would be a 5-hour round trip for me, so I can't just do it after work some day and don't know how soon I can find time to make the trip. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 16, 2012, 05:17:38 PM
Totally off subject but I was on Lewis and Clark Parkway today. Had a green light right by Kroger and had just hit the gas. 3 cars ran in front of me headed north bound turning from west bound Lewis and Clark. Cabiness have you ever had problems there? Is it bad light timing or just fools who can't drive. I missed the second car by 3-5 inches after jamming up the brakes. Ok enough thread hijacking........
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 16, 2012, 07:28:36 PM
I was wondering about the I-69 opening next Monday. It is a 67-mile segment that opens. This must be one of the biggest single freeway openings in a very long time. How long ago did a similar or longer freeway open to traffic? It may well be in the 1980s or before I think?

Maybe this question should be in the General Highway category, since it would be interesting if a longer segment has opened anywhere in the country.

Totally off subject . . . Lewis and Clark Parkway

Really? I hardly noticed.  :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 16, 2012, 10:21:10 PM
An interesting and well-written article from the Princeton Daily Clarion: http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_bd7eece6-2faf-11e2-aaff-0019bb2963f4.html (http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_bd7eece6-2faf-11e2-aaff-0019bb2963f4.html)

Quote
weather will dictate whether the governor rides his motorcycle in a parade ride from the Ind. 68 exchange to the next celebration at 10:40 a.m. near Washington, and on to the third celebration at 12:50 p.m. at Crane.

Quote
INDOT officials said this summer that more than 47 million pounds of reinforcing steel will be used in the bridges in the first three sections of the highway, equal to the weight of more than 11,000 Toyota Sienna minivans made near Princeton.

Nearly 115,000 cubic yards of structural concrete (enough to fill up Lucas Oil Stadium six times) is used.

Laid end-to-end, the number of beams used to build the first three sections of the project would circle the Indianapolis Motor Speedway more than nine times.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 16, 2012, 10:25:56 PM
My daughter will be returning to South Bend from Evansville for the holiday. I've suggested she use the new road, though I don't know if she will. She's not as adventurous as most of us geeks.   :angry:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on November 17, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
I grew up in the Evansville area but now live in South Carolina. For those testing out the new road next week, please post pictures if you can. Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 17, 2012, 07:34:09 AM
I know what I am doing Monday.

Good to be the boss and sked yourself for a historic moment.

With SR 25, it finally opened after dark, long after the ribbon cutting ceremonies. I wonder what time I-69 will actually open to traffic.

EDIT - I noticed that it opens at 5:00pm in this article (http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_bd7eece6-2faf-11e2-aaff-0019bb2963f4.html).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on November 17, 2012, 09:28:39 AM
Totally off subject but I was on Lewis and Clark Parkway today. Had a green light right by Kroger and had just hit the gas. 3 cars ran in front of me headed north bound turning from west bound Lewis and Clark. Cabiness have you ever had problems there? Is it bad light timing or just fools who can't drive. I missed the second car by 3-5 inches after jamming up the brakes. Ok enough thread hijacking........

I don't go that far down L&C very often because I'm closer to the Kroger in Jeff, but I don't remember any problems specifically at that intersection.  But yes, there are a lot of fools who can't drive around here.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 17, 2012, 11:47:52 AM
When I go down there, it will be during the day on Wednesday, specifically so I can get pictures that I will send to the webmasters here on AARoads. So, hopefully they'll be up on the website in no time. And the weather looks to be great that day, which is a plus this time of year.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on November 17, 2012, 12:09:18 PM
When I go down there, it will be during the day on Wednesday, specifically so I can get pictures that I will send to the webmasters here on AARoads. So, hopefully they'll be up on the website in no time. And the weather looks to be great that day, which is a plus this time of year.

We'll prioritize posting those too.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 18, 2012, 12:04:28 PM
Some section 5 news, an editorial, and some facts and figures on the project (thanks to Indiana Economic Digest publishing Herald Times articles):


I think the plan is still to begin section 5 work in 2013. That may only be land acquisition or they may award bids for small projects.  It depends on finding a funding source, of course, but it seems to be a bipartisan priority.
Title: New I-69 opens Monday; Gov. Mitch Daniels to lead parade on motorcycle
Post by: mukade on November 18, 2012, 10:14:35 PM
First thing of note is that this article says the road opens at 6:00 pm tomorrow, not 5:00 pm (in case anyone is going). Being the Indy Star, they have to devote a good portion to Tom Tokarski and CARR, but there is some interesting information in there.

New I-69 opens Monday; Gov. Mitch Daniels to lead parade on motorcycle (http://www.indystar.com/article/20121118/NEWS/211180357/New-69-opens-Monday-Gov-Mitch-Daniels-lead-parade-motorcycle?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com) (Indianapolis Star)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 18, 2012, 11:30:32 PM
I was reading that about CARR and its leader, I actually didn't know that he had property along the new I-69 route. I'm sure I know the answer to this...but is that the real reason for his wanting to keep the interstate out? Is his argument more self-interest than anything else?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 18, 2012, 11:37:17 PM
I was reading that about CARR and its leader, I actually didn't know that he had property along the new I-69 route. I'm sure I know the answer to this...but is that the real reason for his wanting to keep the interstate out? Is his argument more self-interest than anything else?
One of the early promoters of I-69 owns property along the route, I believe at the US 50 interchange. Don't ignore his self-interest.

There's a recent book about I-69 that I recommend; it seems to cover both sides fairly.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 19, 2012, 12:19:22 AM
Most people's arguments about most things are probably at least rooted in self-interest, if not entirely self-serving.  Like this one time I saw a guy having trouble pushing his vehicle at a gas station: I got out and helped him push — because he was in my way.  Not a perfect example, as that was an action and not an argument, and I might well have helped the guy even if it didn't immediately helped me, but it's a fun anecdote for me to tell. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 19, 2012, 07:18:26 AM
I was reading that about CARR and its leader, I actually didn't know that he had property along the new I-69 route. I'm sure I know the answer to this...but is that the real reason for his wanting to keep the interstate out? Is his argument more self-interest than anything else?
One of the early promoters of I-69 owns property along the route, I believe at the US 50 interchange. Don't ignore his self-interest.

There's a recent book about I-69 that I recommend; it seems to cover both sides fairly.

The person from Washington who kicked off the campaign to build I-69 may benefit financially, but the state and the majority of people in the region also will benefit. Nothing wrong with what he did - all he did was to make a case to legislators and other business leaders. I would say almost every project is kicked off by self interest to some extent. An example of what would be wrong is what former Speaker Dennis Hastert apparently did which was to buy a bunch of land, and then earmark money for a highway nearby. The problem with Tom Tokarski and CARR is they tend to consistently greatly exagerrate, at best, or lie (at least in my opinion). Their predictions have consistently been wrong and they use scare tactics to try to make points.

The documentary which aired on local PBS stations, which is somewhat based on the book, is also not bad. Everyone recognizes there are two sides to the story, but as the primary story today is I-69 is ready to open, is it appropriate to devote that much space (once again) to this person and his oragnization?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: trafficsignal on November 19, 2012, 08:03:07 AM
Some section 5 news, an editorial, and some facts and figures on the project (thanks to Indiana Economic Digest publishing Herald Times articles):

  • Section 5 of I-69 could displace 150 homes, 32 business and one church (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=67428) (Bloomington Herald-Times)


Am I the only one that finds 1) the headline completely different than the article (Could vs. Will), and 2) completely inaccurate?  The DEIS is a worst case scenario, designed to find the maximum impact the road will have.  The article states that it "will displace 150 homes, 32 businesses, and one church".  Is that absolute?  I remember in the DEIS for I-465NE in Indy, most of the office buildings between I-465 & Shadeland were highlighted as possible takes, but it ended up that no R/W was even needed along that area.  It sounds to me like the Bloomington paper is trying to make it sound worse than it'll actually be, but am I totally off-base here?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on November 19, 2012, 11:44:22 AM
Some section 5 news, an editorial, and some facts and figures on the project (thanks to Indiana Economic Digest publishing Herald Times articles):

  • Section 5 of I-69 could displace 150 homes, 32 business and one church (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=208&ArticleID=67428) (Bloomington Herald-Times)


Am I the only one that finds 1) the headline completely different than the article (Could vs. Will), and 2) completely inaccurate?  The DEIS is a worst case scenario, designed to find the maximum impact the road will have.  The article states that it "will displace 150 homes, 32 businesses, and one church".  Is that absolute?  I remember in the DEIS for I-465NE in Indy, most of the office buildings between I-465 & Shadeland were highlighted as possible takes, but it ended up that no R/W was even needed along that area.  It sounds to me like the Bloomington paper is trying to make it sound worse than it'll actually be, but am I totally off-base here?

As I-69 would be routed along IN 37, it would be better off using an upgraded portion of the existing roadway, rather than a parallel new-terrain alignment, as this is the only direct connection from Bloomington to Indy anyway. But time will tell.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: WrkHrse on November 19, 2012, 04:24:49 PM
First 67 mile extension Northward opens by 1800 Monday, Nov. 19th. Interstate will be open between I-64 and US-231.
 
http://www.wthr.com/story/20133259/indiana-ready-to-open-first-half-of-i-69-extension
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 19, 2012, 04:39:55 PM
Almost time  :colorful:!! Just drove through interchange at US 50. Covers are removed from the BGS and INDOT workers are parked at each ramp, ready to remove the barricades!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 19, 2012, 04:44:10 PM
Who gets the first speeding ticket.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on November 19, 2012, 04:46:09 PM
The problem with Tom Tokarski and CARR is they tend to consistently greatly exagerrate, at best, or lie (at least in my opinion). Their predictions have consistently been wrong and they use scare tactics to try to make points.
The documentary which aired on local PBS stations, which is somewhat based on the book, is also not bad.

For those who have not viewed the documentary, here is a link to it:

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/special-features/i-69-are-we-there-yet/video/

The link includes a Q & A session with a three-person panel, including Tokarski, after the documentary is finished.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 19, 2012, 05:10:52 PM
As I-69 would be routed along IN 37, it would be better off using an upgraded portion of the existing roadway, rather than a parallel new-terrain alignment, as this is the only direct connection from Bloomington to Indy anyway. But time will tell.

Part of the existing road will become a frontage road for some key businesses. Most of the existing SR 37 roadway will become I-69, but hopefully, it will all get rebuilt.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 19, 2012, 06:44:44 PM
There are numerous articles in the press today, but the Bloomington Herald article below has some interesting pictures of where section 4 begins.


Tomorrow, there will be special letting that includes the last contract on section 4 of I-69. All original bids were rejected for being too high a couple of months ago. This is an expensive section due to the rugged terrain.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 19, 2012, 07:37:17 PM
OSM now shows the highway complete and open to US 231.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 19, 2012, 08:32:03 PM
The problem with Tom Tokarski and CARR is they tend to consistently greatly exagerrate, at best, or lie (at least in my opinion). Their predictions have consistently been wrong and they use scare tactics to try to make points.
The documentary which aired on local PBS stations, which is somewhat based on the book, is also not bad.

For those who have not viewed the documentary, here is a link to it:

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/special-features/i-69-are-we-there-yet/video/

The link includes a Q & A session with a three-person panel including Tokarski after the documentary is finished.

Thanks for the link to the documentary. Does anyone have info on the book, like title & author?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 19, 2012, 08:37:14 PM
OSM now shows the highway complete and open to US 231.

Only parts of it, so far.  :-/
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 19, 2012, 08:37:50 PM
Thanks for the link to the documentary. Does anyone have info on the book, like title & author?
http://www.mattdellinger.com/i69/about.html
My local library has it for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 19, 2012, 08:48:10 PM
Thanks for the link to the documentary. Does anyone have info on the book, like title & author?
http://www.mattdellinger.com/i69/about.html
My local library has it for whatever reason.

Thanks. It's not available in the South Bend library, alas. Maybe I'll ask Santa for it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on November 19, 2012, 08:55:19 PM
Thanks for the link to the documentary. Does anyone have info on the book, like title & author?
http://www.mattdellinger.com/i69/about.html
My local library has it for whatever reason.

Thanks. It's not available in the South Bend library, alas. Maybe I'll ask Santa for it.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/interstate-69-the-unfinished-history-of-the-last-great-american-highway/oclc/464593120&referer=brief_results
Looks like several public libraries near South Bend have it, as well as Notre Dame. http://sjcpl.lib.in.us/policies/publicpolicy/psmanual.html#ill says that the South Bend library has interlibrary loan.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 19, 2012, 09:11:20 PM
Thanks for the link to the documentary. Does anyone have info on the book, like title & author?
http://www.mattdellinger.com/i69/about.html
My local library has it for whatever reason.

Thanks. It's not available in the South Bend library, alas. Maybe I'll ask Santa for it.

From Amazon:

8 new from $0.14
43 used from $0.01

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 19, 2012, 09:46:26 PM
So which road geek will get the first speeding ticket?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on November 19, 2012, 10:14:03 PM
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/live-chat-interstate-69-opens-40347/

Lots of photos here

As far as the process of upgrading SR 37 from Bloomington to Indianapolis to I-69, it's definitely needed as the traffic on that segment is defintely more than on I-74 outside of I-465, and probably more than most of I-70 outside of I-465.  Getting the SR 37 Bloomington bypass up to Interstate standards would probably be my next step if I was in charge after the Crane to Bloomington segment is done if they can't get the funding to do the whole Bloomington to Martinsville segment at once.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 19, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
OSM now shows the highway complete and open to US 231.

Only parts of it, so far.  :-/

Beware of outdated slippy map tiles.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 19, 2012, 10:29:49 PM
OSM now shows the highway complete and open to US 231.

Only parts of it, so far.  :-/

Beware of outdated slippy map tiles.
I've not looked at OSM before. Do I need to do something to update it or is this something better aaked at that site?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on November 19, 2012, 10:39:48 PM
OSM now shows the highway complete and open to US 231.

Only parts of it, so far.  :-/

Beware of outdated slippy map tiles.
I've not looked at OSM before. Do I need to do something to update it or is this something better aaked at that site?

Just keep in mind that the map you see visually might not quite be up to date.  You might be able to provoke the site to re-render the tiles by using the refresh button on your browser (click the "view" tab once first so you're still looking at the same spot after the refresh) or even just panning and zooming a lot can lead to updating the tiles.

Of course, the road is only open to US 231.  The rest is still incomplete in reality.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 19, 2012, 11:14:25 PM
^ Thanks vtk. Your tips led me to the right view. Some of the segments were showing only as a dashed line, which I presume means "under construction" or "planned." The key gives no explanation of the dashed line. After enough panning and zooming, I got the entire completed road to appear. The road from Crane to Bloomington showed as dashed line, which makes sense.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: KEVIN_224 on November 20, 2012, 01:58:59 PM
How long until we get a roadgeek video of somebody driving the new segment of I-69? :)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: lamsalfl on November 20, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
The people at Google have been working all morning to show I-69 now that it be open.  Around 7:00 CT this morning all there was was a floating I-69 shield with no road.  Now there are some pieces in place around Oakland City.  I refresh maybe every half hour to see they've added more highway to the map. 

It shouldn't take them much time at all to show I-49 in Missouri when that opens next month since they just need to drop shields.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 07:25:17 PM
I drove the length of the road. Obviously, it is very nice, but here are some observations:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 20, 2012, 07:52:23 PM
I hope there are at least I-69 signs at the exits...are there? I also take it then that SR 45 is open, since I will likely take that route from Bloomington to US 231 in the morning. And speaking of signs, what signs ARE there?

Oh, and agreed that I-164 should go. If we are going to extend I-69 to Evansville, then let's take this seriously and "extend" I-69 to Evansville. Does someone have to lodge a protest to INDOT about this?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 20, 2012, 07:59:48 PM

  • No lighting or traffic lights at ramps exist.


There definitely needs to be lighting at the US 50 Interchange. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 08:20:58 PM
I hope there are at least I-69 signs at the exits...are there? I also take it then that SR 45 is open, since I will likely take that route from Bloomington to US 231 in the morning. And speaking of signs, what signs ARE there?

Oh, and agreed that I-164 should go. If we are going to extend I-69 to Evansville, then let's take this seriously and "extend" I-69 to Evansville. Does someone have to lodge a protest to INDOT about this?

The BGSes an I-69 shields are up. I saw no blue services signs, but then again, there are very few services.

SR 45 was still closed at SR 445, but it almost looked like it might open today. Lots of contractor trucks with lights flashing and guys in lime-green vests milling around at the barricades. Also, SR 445 detour signs were up and SR 45 detour signs were down. SR 445 is one dangerous road. It looks like it will be rebuilt.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 08:25:06 PM

  • No lighting or traffic lights at ramps exist.


There definitely needs to be lighting at the US 50 Interchange. 

Of course SR 68 interchange looks like a Christmas tree. It even stands out when seen from a plane.

Not sure whether lighting is planned or not.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 20, 2012, 09:44:40 PM
I-164 will last until they build the bridge over the Ohio River.  That will be a very long time from now, but that's what I think is going to happen. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 20, 2012, 09:53:55 PM
So, just change all of I-164 into I-69 and route it as such, having it end at US 41. Even if it does last a while, most of that highway will be I-69 anyway, so all the guide signs and highway shields from say the SR 662 exit northward would never have to be changed again, leaving you only a few miles of highway that will need to be change when the time comes. That's still not a whole lot. Of course you could be very right, they'll leave it there just because.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 20, 2012, 09:58:23 PM
So, just change all of I-164 into I-69 and route it as such, having it end at US 41. Even if it does last a while, most of that highway will be I-69 anyway, so all the guide signs and highway shields from say the SR 662 exit northward would never have to be changed again, leaving you only a few miles of highway that will need to be change when the time comes. That's still not a whole lot. Of course you could be very right, they'll leave it there just because.

I agree with you, just change the whole thing, because when the bridge is built, the tiny east west part will be i-169.  Less things to change when the bridge is built. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on November 20, 2012, 09:59:28 PM
Judging from the TV news reports last night, there will be more signage to come.  Oakland City University is supposedly getting a BGS each way at the SR 64 exit, and blue services signs will be added as and where they're needed - the owner of the CountryMark station at the SR 68 & 57 junction told WFIE TV that he was getting one.  I feel fairly sure that lighting will be added later, too, although I'll have to check on that.

Oh, and for those who may have money riding on it (kidding!) - the first accident occurred around 9 Eastern time Monday night - about 4 hours after the road opened.  A motorcyclist from Washington, Ind. hit a deer near the 58 MM.  The guy wasn't injured, fortunately.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 10:00:30 PM
So, just change all of I-164 into I-69 and route it as such, having it end at US 41. Even if it does last a while, most of that highway will be I-69 anyway, so all the guide signs and highway shields from say the SR 662 exit northward would never have to be changed again, leaving you only a few miles of highway that will need to be change when the time comes. That's still not a whole lot. Of course you could be very right, they'll leave it there just because.

I agree, but I think exit numbers will actually stay the same. SR 68 is back to exit 22 on I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 10:13:19 PM
Judging from the TV news reports last night, there will be more signage to come.  Oakland City University is supposedly getting a BGS each way at the SR 64 exit, and blue services signs will be added as and where they're needed - the owner of the CountryMark station at the SR 68 & 57 junction told WFIE TV that he was getting one. 

The Oakland City Univ/Patoka NWR sign is already up. One of the honorary bridge name signs was also up.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 20, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
The SR 64 exit is signed Princeton and Huntingburg isn't it? I wonder why Oakland City itself was left off, since I had figured that would be the Oakland City exit. Huntingburg isn't exactly close to I-69, but at least the university is mentioned at least.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 20, 2012, 10:39:09 PM
So, just change all of I-164 into I-69 and route it as such, having it end at US 41. Even if it does last a while, most of that highway will be I-69 anyway, so all the guide signs and highway shields from say the SR 662 exit northward would never have to be changed again, leaving you only a few miles of highway that will need to be change when the time comes. That's still not a whole lot. Of course you could be very right, they'll leave it there just because.

I agree, but I think exit numbers will actually stay the same. SR 68 is back to exit 22 on I-69.
It makes perfect sense to travelers to convert 164 to 69 all the way to 41. And shouldn't the city fathers of Evansville prefer to have a 2di running right into their city. The cost to the state for signage would be reasonable. Nearly the entire length is going to be I-69 some day anyway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 20, 2012, 11:01:51 PM
I drove the length of the road. Obviously, it is very nice, but here are some observations:

Are the exit numbers shown on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_69_in_Indiana#Exit_list) and OSM correct?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 20, 2012, 11:16:11 PM
I drove the length of the road. Obviously, it is very nice, but here are some observations:

Are the exit numbers shown on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_69_in_Indiana#Exit_list) and OSM correct?

The exit numbers all look right based on what I remember.

INDOT plans show exit numbers for future SR 45, SR 445, and SR 37
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: treichard on November 21, 2012, 09:19:46 AM
The INDOT interchange book
http://www.in.gov/indot/div/interchange/i-164.htm
says that the I-64 & I-69 & I-164 interchange is Exit 20 instead of the previous Exit 21 number for I-164 and I-69.  Have the exit tabs been updated?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on November 21, 2012, 11:46:56 AM
The people at Google have been working all morning to show I-69 now that it be open.  Around 7:00 CT this morning all there was was a floating I-69 shield with no road.  Now there are some pieces in place around Oakland City.  I refresh maybe every half hour to see they've added more highway to the map. 

It shouldn't take them much time at all to show I-49 in Missouri when that opens next month since they just need to drop shields.
Why does it take Google so long?  They just need to change everything from "construction" to "freeway"; took OSM very little time!

Right now it only shows up on close zooms and has strange gaps.  The ICC had the zoom problem when it was built as well; it was only fixed this year.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 21, 2012, 03:17:53 PM
My daughter will be returning to South Bend from Evansville for the holiday. I've suggested she use the new road, though I don't know if she will. She's not as adventurous as most of us geeks.   :angry:

My daughter made it back to South Bend from Evansville, but she didn't try I-69. I'm just as glad she didn't, since she was driving at night. The chance of breaking down in the middle of nowhere at night makes a dad worry, no matter how mature and self-sufficient she is.   :paranoid:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 21, 2012, 03:36:25 PM
Is the US 50/150 interchange really a half diamond?  Or is Google still updating its map service?
Title: Photos of I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 21, 2012, 04:17:36 PM
This is a small sampling of my pictures:

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-Elnora-3.jpg)
Southbound around dusk approaching Elnora where I-69 heads south

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--SR64-1.jpg)
Northbound at SR 64

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--SR58-1.jpg)
Northbound at SR 58

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--US50-US150-1.jpg)
Northbound at US 50



Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 21, 2012, 04:43:33 PM
Is the US 50/150 interchange really a half diamond?  Or is Google still updating its map service?

It's a full diamond, mapping isn't updated.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 21, 2012, 05:15:13 PM
Just got back, to answer my own question on the previous page, I guess Oakland City is mentioned on the exit ramp itself. I can too confirm that US 50/150 is a full diamond, and probably in need of some traffic signals from what I saw, at least for the northbound ramp. I also noticed that all mentions of Petersburg at the interchange with I-64 and north at the SR 68 exit are gone, since Petersburg bound traffic will use the interstate to SR 56/61. I'm hoping that Indianapolis gets put up there in a couple of years when the extension to Bloomington. Finally, I saw nothing up about traffic using US 231 to reach I-70 at the Crane exit, not up yet I guess? Overall, a neat experience since I grew up just after the last interstates were being built in the state, so this was my first time of seeing an interstate in it's infancy. Once it's connected to SR 37 I think it will be getting much more use.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 21, 2012, 05:24:16 PM
Just got back, to answer my own question on the previous page, I guess Oakland City is mentioned on the exit ramp itself. I can too confirm that US 50/150 is a full diamond, and probably in need of some traffic signals from what I saw, at least for the northbound ramp. I also noticed that all mentions of Petersburg at the interchange with I-64 and north at the SR 68 exit are gone, since Petersburg bound traffic will use the interstate to SR 56/61. I'm hoping that Indianapolis gets put up there in a couple of years when the extension to Bloomington. Finally, I saw nothing up about traffic using US 231 to reach I-70 at the Crane exit, not up yet I guess? Overall, a neat experience since I grew up just after the last interstates were being built in the state, so this was my first time of seeing an interstate in it's infancy. Once it's connected to SR 37 I think it will be getting much more use.

When will the part to SR 37 be done?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 21, 2012, 05:44:21 PM
Just got back, to answer my own question on the previous page, I guess Oakland City is mentioned on the exit ramp itself. I can too confirm that US 50/150 is a full diamond, and probably in need of some traffic signals from what I saw, at least for the northbound ramp. I also noticed that all mentions of Petersburg at the interchange with I-64 and north at the SR 68 exit are gone, since Petersburg bound traffic will use the interstate to SR 56/61. I'm hoping that Indianapolis gets put up there in a couple of years when the extension to Bloomington. Finally, I saw nothing up about traffic using US 231 to reach I-70 at the Crane exit, not up yet I guess? Overall, a neat experience since I grew up just after the last interstates were being built in the state, so this was my first time of seeing an interstate in it's infancy. Once it's connected to SR 37 I think it will be getting much more use.

I was also wondering about that US 231 sign. I agree on the need for traffic light at US 50. I would say both northbound and southbound as that road is quite busy.

A warning to anyone going to see it - I saw many state police cars today. Some were clocking vehicles and some were just patroling.

Other pics:
(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--SR58-2.jpg)
Not even all green directional signs are up as seen on SR 58 west of Odon

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--SR445-1.jpg)
Newly opened SR 45 at new SR 445 route and the I-69 Greene County connector

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--US231-2.jpg)
I-69 continuing toward Bloomington after terminus at US 231 (the beginning of section 4)

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69--SR168-1.jpg)
Northbound at SR 168 on a foggy morning
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on November 21, 2012, 05:49:16 PM
When will the part to SR 37 be done?

By the end of 2014.

By the way, mukade, love the pics!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 21, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
I noticed the cops too, saw one pull over a vehicle outside of Petersburg this morning heading south and saw another with one pulled over heading north around Oakland City in the afternoon. I just kept it safe and stayed at 70 the whole time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 21, 2012, 07:43:55 PM
I don't know if you went down SR 37 in Bloomington, tdindy. I checked it out as the contract for the interchange was awarded a couple of months ago. There were several survey stakes marking where the orange construction signs will go up and an INDOT truck was parked at a house that will be demolished there. Unfortunately, nothing else. Also, where SR 54 will cross I-69 was underwhelming. The trees had all been cleared, but nothing else.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 21, 2012, 09:44:02 PM
I didn't go as far as the new interchange at SR 37, assuming there wasn't much there. I did drive SR 45 to Crane and saw the opening in the trees, but again assumed there wasn't much there to be seen.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on November 22, 2012, 01:11:31 AM
I found an excuse to take a work trip to Bloomington yesterday. Having spent many years driving every highway in Southern and Central Indiana frequently, it was a strange experience to be in my back yard and driving along a road that I had no idea what was around the next curve.

A couple of additional observations I had:

1. Not a single mileage sign along the route. I assume they are coming.

2. Thought it was a little odd that at US 50, they used Vincennes-Washington as the control cities at the interchange. With the route being on the east side of Washington, I would have assumed they would have used Loogootee and Washington. Isn't this pretty well the standard practice, one city in each direction?

I too think INDOT should go ahead and sign 69 along 164. It will eventually become 69, might as well go ahead and start the transition now. They could co-sign it with 164 for a year or so, then just drop the 164. In the meantime, will they add "To 69" shields at all the Evansville interchanges like they have now for "To 64"?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on November 22, 2012, 01:36:55 AM
I won't be surprised to see Loogootee added at some future point, probably sooner rather than later. Ditto Oakland City at the SR 64 exit.  Vincennes District is pretty good about that.  I realize Gov. Daniels wanted INDOT to save money wherever possible, but leaving towns off the signs?  Sheesh ...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 22, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
I found an excuse to take a work trip to Bloomington yesterday. Having spent many years driving every highway in Southern and Central Indiana frequently, it was a strange experience to be in my back yard and driving along a road that I had no idea what was around the next curve.

And it is a beautiful road going through the rolling coal country with a lot of woods, flat farm country, and rolling farm country not unlike SW Wiscosin. Next phase will take it through actual hills. I drove it at dusk one way and through fog and haze the other, but I bet on a clear day you would have at least a couple beautiful vistas.

1. Not a single mileage sign along the route. I assume they are coming.

Interesting observation. I checked the online plans for three of the interchanges, and there are no mileage signs specified. In a way it makes sense to do that later as Bloomington and Indianapolis would surely eventually be used.

2. Thought it was a little odd that at US 50, they used Vincennes-Washington as the control cities at the interchange. With the route being on the east side of Washington, I would have assumed they would have used Loogootee and Washington. Isn't this pretty well the standard practice, one city in each direction?
I won't be surprised to see Loogootee added at some future point, probably sooner rather than later. Ditto Oakland City at the SR 64 exit.
I do not recall ever seeing a new highway with signs for more than two cities. Is there a regulation that requires that? Eventually, INDOT adds a third city at some interchanges, and it often looks ugly and amatuerish.

When I was in high school I lived near I-65 in Merrillville. At the time I-65 was about four years old and Merrillville became a town in 1971. At the US 30 interchange on I-65 in Merrillville, the control cities were Schererville and Valparaiso. This caused a lot of complaints because the exit was in Merrillville and because Merrillville was larger than the other cities at the time. When IN DOH replaced the signs in the 1980s, the control cities were changed to Merrillville and Valparaiso. Now I think they are Merrillville, Schererville, and Valparaiso. So it has to be a difficult decision for someone.

To be honest, the decision at SR 64 to omit Oakland City in favor of Huntingburg was more questionable to me.

I too think INDOT should go ahead and sign 69 along 164. It will eventually become 69, might as well go ahead and start the transition now. They could co-sign it with 164 for a year or so, then just drop the 164. In the meantime, will they add "To 69" shields at all the Evansville interchanges like they have now for "To 64"?
Sign it I-69 and "former I-164" maybe. I did not see even one I-69 trailblazer which was surprising.
 
I realize Gov. Daniels wanted INDOT to save money wherever possible, but leaving towns off the signs?  Sheesh ...
I doubt elimination of cities on signs was a cost saving factor at all - it is probably the regulation to only allow two. I suspect the main cost savings were eliminating/postponing the two interchanges, postponing the rest area, eliminating/postponing the highway lighting at interchanges, and having narrower medians. The road itself looked to be high quality to me. I guess the decision was made to get something done ASAP because it was now or never. It is always easier to come in and add things later, and I expect that will happen when traffic warrants.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 22, 2012, 09:54:18 AM
I picked daylight hours to drive the highway in both directions, on purpose, so I got to see the views both ways. It was foggy for the trip south (done in the morning to avoid the sun's glare later in the day) but the pictures came out just fine anyway. Heading back north was perfect the whole way and you could tell heading east to the US 231 interchange that hills were coming from the view ahead. It will be a nice reprive for those who drove through the flat fields of Daviess County (which kind of reminded me of US 41 in Northwest Indiana) to head through the hills of Greene and Monroe Counties. 

Again, I did notice that Oakland City was mentioned on the offramp onto SR 64 yesterday, and likewise Loogootee was mentioned on the offramps for both US 50/150 and US 231, so there is some mention of those communities, a rule allowing for only two control cities seems very likely given that. All that would probably need to be done is to install an auxilary sign prior to each exit that shows Oakland City Exit 33 and Loogootee Exit 62. We've used these signs before on Indiana highways, such as the mention of Metamora at Exit 149 on I-74 (Batesville/Oldenburg) and the mention of Bluffton at Exit 278  on I-69 (Huntington/Warren.) On that note, I think the town of Winslow on SR 61 should at least get a little mention at its interchange with I-69. It's the second largest town of Pike County and this is the Pike County interchange.

I saw the mileage signs missing too, and too I feel that is probably something to be added later, along with the lighting. At least the mile markers help in this regard, since they continue I-164's numbers, if you add a mile or so for the Veterans Memorial Parkway from the west of the interchange with I-164 and US 41, then you can use the milemarker to find out your distance to Downtown Evansville. Likewise if you know that Mile 87 is the northern endpoint and Mile 20 (I-64) is the southern endpoint (for I-69 of course) then you can do the math and figure out how much further you got. The signage plans for I-69 to the immediate north of the SR 68 interchange, and for the new I-69 south of the interchange at SR 37 DO mention provisions for a new mileage sign to be installed later, so they are planned. I'm just hoping there will be more than those two.

One final thing on I-164 in Evansville, I also agree that at the very least a "TO I-69" part should be added to signage at the exits along 164. Or we could drop the I-164 part of course....
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 22, 2012, 12:33:06 PM
My daughter made it back to South Bend from Evansville, but she didn't try I-69. I'm just as glad she didn't, since she was driving at night. The chance of breaking down in the middle of nowhere at night makes a dad worry, no matter how mature and self-sufficient she is.   :paranoid:

What route did she take?

FWIW, there seems to be ample cell phone service in that area along the parallel routes (IN 57 and US 231) so a breakdown on I-69 shouldn't be an issue in terms of summoning help.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 22, 2012, 05:09:32 PM
Yes, I don't think phone service is an issue along I-69. Also, you have to keep things in perspective when it comes to services. It is about an hour drive from Crane to Evansville (assuming 75 MPH). In that stretch, Crane has a gas station and restaurant, Odon is about 3 miles east of I-69 on SR 58, Oakland City services are about a mile east on SR 64, and I-69 goes along the edge of Washington and Petersburg. So while there are no services on the highway itself until maybe SR 62 on I-164, it really is not too remote. I would say you are always within 10-12 minutes from services.

It is probably as good as any road to Evansville.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 22, 2012, 07:05:45 PM
Finally took a drive to Evansville from the US 50 interchange. As I previously stated, the US 50 interchange needs lighting. With 50 itself being 4 lanes, this interchange is very large and can be confusing for people not familiar with the area when its pitch black out side. With that being said, I was amazed at how lit it was at the SR 68 interchange. I feel that lighting at US 50 should have been prioritized over SR 68. I've spoken to a couple others that have driven through at night and they both agreed it was confusing to navigate in the dark.

- Drive from US 50 to Morgan Ave was 40 minutes. Before 69, it took about an hour.
- Only saw one Trooper, near Washington. The other one I saw was on 50, whom also saw me and decided to have a chat about my speed...lol. No ticket though!  :clap:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 22, 2012, 08:30:17 PM
Has the lighting at the IN 68 exit always been there, or was it recently added? If the former, my guess would be that it was installed to help improve visibility at the spot where the freeway ended.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 22, 2012, 08:42:15 PM
I'm pretty sure that it's been like there for a while, but I've never been through there at night to see the lights on.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 22, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
Has the lighting at the IN 68 exit always been there, or was it recently added? If the former, my guess would be that it was installed to help improve visibility at the spot where the freeway ended.

When the exit opened, it had no lights - I looked at the pictures I took then. On the cover of the 2011-2012 INDOT map, that interchange is shown, and it has at least some lights. When I first noticed the excessive number of lights was in June from an airliner at a fairly high altitude. It really stood out.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 23, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
My daughter made it back to South Bend from Evansville, but she didn't try I-69. I'm just as glad she didn't, since she was driving at night. The chance of breaking down in the middle of nowhere at night makes a dad worry, no matter how mature and self-sufficient she is.   :paranoid:

What route did she take?

FWIW, there seems to be ample cell phone service in that area along the parallel routes (IN 57 and US 231) so a breakdown on I-69 shouldn't be an issue in terms of summoning help.

I appreciate the thoughts, hbelkins. I'll let her know. She took the usual US-41 & I-70 route, and probably the same route back on Sunday. I think she'll take the new road at Christmas time. She was a bit concerned about her GPS not knowing where she was on I-69. My navigation gene was definitely not passed on to her. I think I've convinced her that she can just follow I-69 to the end and then turn on the GPS to get her to SB next time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on November 23, 2012, 06:21:43 PM
Have control cities been updated/established for the BGS' on I-64
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 23, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
Have control cities been updated/established for the BGS' on I-64

Yes. From Petersburg to blank.

[/(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/I64--I69-I164-7.jpg)[url] (http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Intchg/IMG_0609_MOD.JPG)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on November 23, 2012, 10:46:00 PM
My daughter made it back to South Bend from Evansville, but she didn't try I-69. I'm just as glad she didn't, since she was driving at night. The chance of breaking down in the middle of nowhere at night makes a dad worry, no matter how mature and self-sufficient she is.   :paranoid:

What route did she take?

FWIW, there seems to be ample cell phone service in that area along the parallel routes (IN 57 and US 231) so a breakdown on I-69 shouldn't be an issue in terms of summoning help.

I appreciate the thoughts, hbelkins. I'll let her know. She took the usual US-41 & I-70 route, and probably the same route back on Sunday. I think she'll take the new road at Christmas time. She was a bit concerned about her GPS not knowing where she was on I-69. My navigation gene was definitely not passed on to her. I think I've convinced her that she can just follow I-69 to the end and then turn on the GPS to get her to SB next time.

I understand the parental concerns as I have a college age daughter as well. I have driven every road between Evansville and Bloomington for years, yet, I was even a little confused coming back after dark on Tuesday. I wouldn't worry about services, she will be fine with that, but I would be a little concerned about her on the 25 miles of twisties from Bloomington to Crane if she is driving after dark.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 24, 2012, 09:01:20 AM
One interesting thing as I was organizing my pictures over the long weekend: I compared pictures of I-69 where it goes from north to east northeast near Elnora. When I checked out progress in May, this was an area that looked to be way behind schedule. The contractor for this part had the hilliest section and I think it was for around 10 miles of roadway. Below are the before and after shots. Note that five months after the picture in May was taken, the highway was paved, and six months later, it was open to traffic.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Elnora-0512.jpg)
Taken from overpass

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69Elnora-1112.jpg)
Taken from highway

Comparing with the speed it is taking or took to build parts of US 31, US 24, and SR 25, this was pretty amazing to me.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 24, 2012, 11:18:48 AM
WOW

We still can build highways fast in America if we want to get it done.

Great Pics.........
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 24, 2012, 01:40:33 PM
A dry summer also helped speed things along.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 25, 2012, 02:46:25 AM
My daughter made it back to South Bend from Evansville, but she didn't try I-69. I'm just as glad she didn't, since she was driving at night. The chance of breaking down in the middle of nowhere at night makes a dad worry, no matter how mature and self-sufficient she is.   :paranoid:

What route did she take?

FWIW, there seems to be ample cell phone service in that area along the parallel routes (IN 57 and US 231) so a breakdown on I-69 shouldn't be an issue in terms of summoning help.

I appreciate the thoughts, hbelkins. I'll let her know. She took the usual US-41 & I-70 route, and probably the same route back on Sunday. I think she'll take the new road at Christmas time. She was a bit concerned about her GPS not knowing where she was on I-69. My navigation gene was definitely not passed on to her. I think I've convinced her that she can just follow I-69 to the end and then turn on the GPS to get her to SB next time.

I understand the parental concerns as I have a college age daughter as well. I have driven every road between Evansville and Bloomington for years, yet, I was even a little confused coming back after dark on Tuesday. I wouldn't worry about services, she will be fine with that, but I would be a little concerned about her on the 25 miles of twisties from Bloomington to Crane if she is driving after dark.
I had actually recommended her taking US-231 north to I-70, to avoid the nasty terrain. That route looks to be 8 miles farther, according to Google maps. What's the recommendation of those who know those roads? I'll eventually try both, but not for a few months.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on November 25, 2012, 11:31:06 AM
A dry summer also helped speed things along.

Although Indiana had severe drought as well, and water for the concrete was an issue in July. When I took a trip this Saturday to Evansville on the new road, I got to thinking about the asphalt sections versus concrete, and surmised if the water shortage didn't play a direct role in using asphalt, the calendar did. With the opening looming, the asphalt could go down a lot quicker than moving the concrete paving equipment to the multiple spots, letting it cure and then saw in the expansion and control joints.

Other observations and musings: The right of way fencing is a work in progress in spots near the southern end. It was nice riding on a road with no potholes. Only one billboard is up on the the new section, near Crane, and it looked like a guy with a backhoe was digging a hole for a foundation for another. It seemed like 20 dead racoons were on the road, and one squirrel, who were not notified  of the opening. No service signs yet, for gas, food or lodging.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on November 25, 2012, 11:36:04 AM

I had actually recommended her taking US-231 north to I-70, to avoid the nasty terrain. That route looks to be 8 miles farther, according to Google maps. What's the recommendation of those who know those roads? I'll eventually try both, but not for a few months.
[/quote]

US 231 is the better choice. Fewer twists in the route itself, but it does turn at intersections more. US 231 also goes through more towns with services. North of Spencer, one could use SR 67 to Indy as an alternate. From Martinsville to Indy it is an expressway, but has more traffic lights from Mooresville to Indy than would US 231 near I 70.  Far more services would be available on SR 67  than US 231
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 25, 2012, 11:52:25 AM
In addition to the detour back west, US 231 goes through Bloomfield, Spencer, and Cloverdale. If I remember right, it is windy around Spencer.

SR 45 is not too bad. There is congestion by the Walmart at SR 37, but otherwise they have improved several intersections which helps traffic flow. The bad times of the day are when commuters living in Bloomington and working at Crane are on the road.

As for the most safe, it could be I-69 to US 231 (south) to SR 58 (east) to SR 37 (north), but that would not be the shortest. It does avoid towns and is not very windy.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 25, 2012, 04:53:05 PM
^ Thanks for the routing tips.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on November 25, 2012, 07:39:41 PM
In addition to the detour back west, US 231 goes through Bloomfield, Spencer, and Cloverdale. If I remember right, it is windy around Spencer.

SR 45 is not too bad. There is congestion by the Walmart at SR 37, but otherwise they have improved several intersections which helps traffic flow. The bad times of the day are when commuters living in Bloomington and working at Crane are on the road.

As for the most safe, it could be I-69 to US 231 (south) to SR 58 (east) to SR 37 (north), but that would not be the shortest. It does avoid towns and is not very windy.

Yes, US 231 does have it winding moments. The grades and hills do have passing lanes, which helps travel times. SR 45 does not.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 25, 2012, 08:16:33 PM
In addition to the detour back west, US 231 goes through Bloomfield, Spencer, and Cloverdale. If I remember right, it is windy around Spencer.

SR 45 is not too bad. There is congestion by the Walmart at SR 37, but otherwise they have improved several intersections which helps traffic flow. The bad times of the day are when commuters living in Bloomington and working at Crane are on the road.

As for the most safe, it could be I-69 to US 231 (south) to SR 58 (east) to SR 37 (north), but that would not be the shortest. It does avoid towns and is not very windy.

Yes, US 231 does have it winding moments. The grades and hills do have passing lanes, which helps travel times. SR 45 does not.

Agreed, it does not, but there are no steep hills on SR 45 either.

On another I-69 topic....

There are two bridges on the new highway named for local war heroes. I noticed signs for these bridges when I went down and took a picture of one. They have brown backgrounds. Is that the correct color for such signs? I first noticed such signs along I-465 which was named the USS Indianapolis Memorial Highway.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-TaylorBridge-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on November 25, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
In addition to the detour back west, US 231 goes through Bloomfield, Spencer, and Cloverdale. If I remember right, it is windy around Spencer.

SR 45 is not too bad. There is congestion by the Walmart at SR 37, but otherwise they have improved several intersections which helps traffic flow. The bad times of the day are when commuters living in Bloomington and working at Crane are on the road.

As for the most safe, it could be I-69 to US 231 (south) to SR 58 (east) to SR 37 (north), but that would not be the shortest. It does avoid towns and is not very windy.

Yes, US 231 does have it winding moments. The grades and hills do have passing lanes, which helps travel times. SR 45 does not.

Agreed, it does not, but there are no steep hills on SR 45 either.

On another I-69 topic....

There are two bridges on the new highway named for local war heroes. I noticed signs for these bridges when I went down and took a picture of one. They have brown backgrounds. Is that the correct color for such signs? I first noticed such signs along I-465 which was named the USS Indianapolis Memorial Highway.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-TaylorBridge-1.jpg)

It shouldn't be brown, but I've seen green and blue of signs like that, I don't know what color is right.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 25, 2012, 09:34:00 PM
There are two bridges on the new highway named for local war heroes. I noticed signs for these bridges when I went down and took a picture of one. They have brown backgrounds. Is that the correct color for such signs? I first noticed such signs along I-465 which was named the USS Indianapolis Memorial Highway.

(http://highwayexplorer.com/Photos/Temp/I69-TaylorBridge-1.jpg)

FWIW, according to page 339 of the 2009 MUCTD, brown is the correct background color.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 26, 2012, 04:47:08 PM
A week late but got to drive the new section today. As others have said there is still work going on. I saw work on guard rails and drainage. Did notice one thing around MM 80 as some one has already "tagged" a overpass. Ok either I was asleep at the wheel but where did the planned rest area go? Did I miss it getting cut out?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on November 26, 2012, 05:38:03 PM
A week late but got to drive the new section today. As others have said there is still work going on. I saw work on guard rails and drainage. Did notice one thing around MM 80 as some one has already "tagged" a overpass. Ok either I was asleep at the wheel but where did the planned rest area go? Did I miss it getting cut out?

The rest area was cut out. It was supposed to go somewhere between Washington and the SR 58 exit. If I remember correctly, I think the state went ahead and purchased the right-away though. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 26, 2012, 07:01:38 PM
Thanks.......didn't remember it getting cut. I do remember it was going to be a unique one with dual access from both north and south bound traffic. I did see one billboard a week after the road opened. Overall it was a rare treat that probably will never happen in my lifetime again. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 26, 2012, 11:55:33 PM
Just wondering: how long until Google driving directions take into account the new road? I entered a route from Evansville to Crane, and it routed me on the old roads. I wasn't surprised.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on November 27, 2012, 10:03:36 AM
Didn't see any services signs but that can be anticipated. So if you are road geeking it make your filled up. Found a gas station at the US-231 exit by Crane but it's a total chitpit.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on November 27, 2012, 10:44:30 AM
That particular station wasn't designed to be a gas station for an interstate though, just a country crossroads. In any case, you aren't going to find a Pilot or anything of that standard on this corridor, yet. As for me, I did have to make one pit stop, in Petersburg where I just went north into town and went to a gas station along SR 57 just south of downtown. Heading back to SR 56/61, it was interesting to see the I-69 exit there while still in the Petersburg city limits. I'm kind of surprised that with all the excitement that Washington has over the new interstate they didn't build a gas station already, I mean they did know where the highway was going to go, why not build it now?

Speaking of Pike and Daviess Counties, I collect various county and city maps from the local chamber of commerce in those communities. I have a Petersburg/Pike County one that features the proposed I-69 corridor (with four exits in the county instead of the one that now exists) and that map was made in 2004. I got a Washington/Daviess County one earlier this year that was dated 2011 and guess what...no mention of I-69 at all. Not bad for a community trying to sell themselves as having interstate access. To their credit, the Princeton/Gibson County map has no mention of the highway nor does the Greene County map (which is an actual county map from the government.) On one final note, a new tourist map of Greene County does feature the highway, so good for them.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 27, 2012, 10:22:42 PM
With the 13 mile gap between SR64 and SR56

The 16 mile gap between SR56 and US 50

and the 14 mile gap between US 50 and SR 58

and finally the 11 mile gap between SR 58 and US 231

there is a pretty wide gap between exits and i am sure you will see a rest area between one of those gaps but what possible exits do you see in the future to make the distance less between exits

There are no cities to speak of between those gaps and it seems like they could make an exit to 57 between 61 and 50 at County road 450 South could connect 57 to 257 and the Glendale State Fish and Wildlife Area at Dog Wood Lake

What future exits if any do you fine folks think might be created?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 27, 2012, 10:31:12 PM
Two other interchanges were planned, but postponed. I think one is north of Petersburg to service the IPL power plant and the other is north of Washington. If I remember correctly, the state bought the land for both. To be honest, I didn't look for these when I checked out the road last week.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 27, 2012, 10:54:35 PM
do we know the exit numbers for section 4
from what i can see its only 3 exits

SR 45. 54 and 37
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on November 27, 2012, 10:55:31 PM
Didn't see any services signs but that can be anticipated. So if you are road geeking it make your filled up. Found a gas station at the US-231 exit by Crane but it's a total chitpit.

Odon isn't too far off the interstate, and it has two regional chain convenience stores. There's a Casey's and one other that I can't remember the name of. A Huck's, maybe?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 27, 2012, 11:00:09 PM
do we know the exit numbers for section 5

from what i can see its only 3 exits

SR 45. 54 and 37

That is section 4. The exits are at SR 45 (98), SR 445 (104) and SR 37 (114).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: IndyAgent on November 27, 2012, 11:11:09 PM
Thanks, where did find that information
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: seicer on November 28, 2012, 11:34:38 AM
You can find that at http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on November 28, 2012, 06:38:57 PM
That URL apparently has the information, but I got it from the INDOT online plans at https://netservices.indot.in.gov/ViewDocs2.0/.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on November 28, 2012, 08:03:17 PM
^ The link doesn't work. Can we get a correction, please?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on November 28, 2012, 09:15:53 PM
^ The link doesn't work. Can we get a correction, please?
It does work. You need to enter the information.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on December 01, 2012, 06:29:59 PM
On this subject, I picked up the 2013 Tourism map from Indiana today (which is not the official INDOT map, which should come out sometime next year, but uses the same INDOT cartography) and saw that the Interstate 69 route from SR 68 to US 231 is now marked with exit numbers at the exit. The stretch of I-69 from US 231 to SR 37 is now labeled as under construction instead of just being a proposed corridor. Still however, the "Corridor I-69" shield is used on the new route that is open. Also, the exit numbers on the stretch of I-69 from Indianapolis to Michigan have all been changed. Furthermore, in Indiana's 2013 visitors guide the new I-69 route appears on all maps that cover the South-Central and South regions of the state.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 02, 2012, 07:10:02 PM
Some of the I-69 section 5 construction sequencing can be seen here (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeII/S5_Appendix_FF.pdf). Vernal Pike will be done first, thank goodness, followed by Fullerton Pike with a connection to That Rd. - one of my favorite road names. Let's hope they complete the south end of section 5 even if the whole section is not completed for years. The link is not new, BTW, but it is the first time I noticed the details.

An article in a Terre Haute TV station site says that "I69 Draws Auto Parts (http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/local/southern_indiana/i69-draws-auto-parts)", but I am not quite sure what the article really is saying other than it could cause companies to expand along the new route.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on December 03, 2012, 11:23:14 AM
Glad they're scheduled to start with Vernal Pike in Section 5.  That's the big thing that needs to be fixed on the Bloomington bypass for traffic flow at present.  I expect at a mininum that the state will find the budget to get that overpass built in the next few years.

Everything else in Section A are things that will need to happen once I-69 connects to SR 37 on the South Side, which will increase traffic on that side of town.
Title: Indiana considers private firm for I-69 legs
Post by: mukade on December 04, 2012, 06:15:49 PM
Quote
Indiana is considering hiring a private firm to design and build the stretch of Interstate 69 from Bloomington to Martinsville...

Indiana considers private firm for I-69 legs (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Indiana-considers-private-firm-for-I-69-legs-4090767.php) (San Francisco Chronicle)

State may hire one agency to handle all details of I-69's next section (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/dec/04/no-headline---interstate69/) (Evansville Courier & Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on December 04, 2012, 06:50:35 PM
Quote
Instead, he said, the state would agree to pay one lump sum to the contractor. Since that contractor would be handling a broad array of aspects, Wingfield said, the state believes the state could get a better price than it would by bonding for the highway's construction.

I fail to see how this is going to work. I could understand if it was an Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity type contract where INDOT pays the contractor at different intervals, but I don't see how the lump sum is going to work, especially if that lump sum is less than the cost to build the road.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 04, 2012, 07:36:27 PM
Some of the I-69 section 5 construction sequencing can be seen here (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeII/S5_Appendix_FF.pdf). Vernal Pike will be done first, thank goodness, followed by Fullerton Pike with a connection to That Rd. - one of my favorite road names. Let's hope they complete the south end of section 5 even if the whole section is not completed for years. The link is not new, BTW, but it is the first time I noticed the details.

An article in a Terre Haute TV station site says that "I69 Draws Auto Parts (http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/local/southern_indiana/i69-draws-auto-parts)", but I am not quite sure what the article really is saying other than it could cause companies to expand along the new route.

The INDOT web site today states:

Quote
Pending federal approval, I-69 Section 5 construction could begin as early as 2013 with safety improvements to existing S.R. 37 intersections and interchanges in Bloomington. The safety improvements are intended to coincide with the opening of I-69 Section 4 to traffic southwest of Bloomington.

So the next opening could mean freeway from SR 46 all the way to the Ohio River for an approximate distance of 120 miles.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on December 04, 2012, 10:54:31 PM
would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on December 04, 2012, 11:33:50 PM
Thanks for the information guys. Glad to see INDOT is preparing to deal with the extra traffic in the Bloomington area.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on December 05, 2012, 03:14:25 AM
would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

I believe there is supposed to be an interchange at Fullerton Pike (or That Road or Tapp Road, don't remember exactly which but I'm pretty sure it's Fullerton.) That and the interchanges at SR 45 and SR 48 might be rebuilt (according to some of the plans that were up.) Granted, the plans aren't set in stone and those two interchange DON'T HAVE to be rebuilt immediately. I guess my question on the proposed work within Bloomington would be, if the overpasses and/or interchanges are built up to at least SR 46, would I-69 officially be designated that far north?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 05, 2012, 07:07:30 AM
would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

I believe there is supposed to be an interchange at Fullerton Pike (or That Road or Tapp Road, don't remember exactly which but I'm pretty sure it's Fullerton.) That and the interchanges at SR 45 and SR 48 might be rebuilt (according to some of the plans that were up.) Granted, the plans aren't set in stone and those two interchange DON'T HAVE to be rebuilt immediately. I guess my question on the proposed work within Bloomington would be, if the overpasses and/or interchanges are built up to at least SR 46, would I-69 officially be designated that far north?

It seems to read that way, but if you look at the construction sequencing document, I do not see that it would be possible because they won't allow consecutive interchanges or consecutive overpasses to be built simultaneously. Personally, I'd just like to see the Vernal Pike and Tapp Road overpasses and Fullerton Pike interchange built for 2014. If they don't travel through Bloomington will be dangerous.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on December 05, 2012, 10:31:14 AM
It's probably going to be a 3-5 year project for even the "Package A" improvements in Bloomington, and probably the best case scenario is heavy construction starting in 2014.  There's no approval yet for the budget or formal bids going on.

You're dealing with an existing road with a good amount of traffic so you can't do everything at once.  Tapp/Fullerton & Vernal Pike need to happen before you can work on either 2nd or 3rd (and those can't happen at the same time).  Traffic's going to have to be rerouted to those other roads.

Even though a lot of SR 37 in Bloomington is already close to interstate standards, it's probably going to be the biggest project outside of the 5 mile stretch or so of SR 37 south of Indianapolis that connects to I-465.

My understanding from reading what was posted earlier is they should be able to sign SR 37 as I-69 to SR48/3rd street once they make the Package A improvements.  All the other improvements will have to be made before they can sign the road to 17th/SR46... there are some other access roads that need to be taken out and overpasses that need to be built.

Hopefully they can find the budget for the whole section, otherwise it could be a while before they finish it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on December 05, 2012, 01:48:44 PM
I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 05, 2012, 05:05:21 PM
I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.

I will disagree. If the road is built to Interstate standards and is open, it should be signed. I think INDOT even said that in the AASHTO application submitted last year. The new terrain sections open in one big bang, though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on December 05, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.

I will disagree. If the road is built to Interstate standards and is open, it should be signed. I think INDOT even said that in the AASHTO application submitted last year. The new terrain sections open in one big bang, though.

True ... there is precedent for that elsewhere, like when MoDOT gradually extended I-64 westward to I-70.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: wh15395 on December 05, 2012, 09:40:09 PM
Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature (http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature)

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 05, 2012, 10:18:50 PM
If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on December 05, 2012, 10:20:03 PM
Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature (http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature)

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

I'm not in favor of it, it really doesn't solve our transportation issues in Indy.  I personally think that it will just make it worse (after initially making things better).  Indy needs to have a real mass transit system, it doesn't have to be a subway, but actually having a good bus system that covers the whole city is a good start.  I think this serves as a better bypass of the city but it doesn't solve the city's traffic issues.  But if they did build it, why is it a partial beltway? why not a full one?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: wh15395 on December 05, 2012, 10:44:59 PM
Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature (http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature)

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

I'm not in favor of it, it really doesn't solve our transportation issues in Indy.  I personally think that it will just make it worse (after initially making things better).  Indy needs to have a real mass transit system, it doesn't have to be a subway, but actually having a good bus system that covers the whole city is a good start.  I think this serves as a better bypass of the city but it doesn't solve the city's traffic issues.  But if they did build it, why is it a partial beltway? why not a full one?

I assume the Eastern part of the metro must have more of a demand for it and that the Western part would have it built eventually. And I completely agree about mass transit. I don't see how this is an either/or thing, though. If it's completely funded by a private company, it should in no way effect any efforts to expand the city's transit system.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on December 06, 2012, 12:13:47 AM
If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.

Will there be a gap in exit numbers though? Remember the new exit nmbers are, what 18 too high on the NE side.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 06, 2012, 07:07:50 AM
If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.

Will there be a gap in exit numbers though? Remember the new exit nmbers are, what 18 too high on the NE side.

The difference is 16 miles, and at least the original Commerce Corridor route had no backtracking. In the unlikely chance that the new highway would be built and used at I-69, I would expect that a 16 mile jump in exit numbers would be evident.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on December 06, 2012, 07:43:53 AM
If this were to be built and be signed as I-69, does the existing I-69 SW of Pendleton become I-169?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on December 06, 2012, 11:43:40 AM
I'm very skeptical that this will even be built. Community opposition killed the project the last time and I don't see how it won't be any better this time, toll road or not. I honestly don't think that travel on I-465 is THAT bad to demand a new bypass around the city. Sure rush hour can get heavy in spots on the north and south sides it still isn't bad the rest of the time. What INDOT should do is widen I-465 to eight lanes at least around the city (something that is about half done already) and improve the freeway-to-freeway interchanges (such as 465/65 on the south side, which is going to be done next year.) This is just me though.

As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Henry on December 06, 2012, 01:49:58 PM
As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.
As nice as it would be, that route will never be done, mainly because it's a little too out of the way. Plus, INDOT is continuing to push for completion of the direct connection to the south side of Indy, which is still years away.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 06, 2012, 06:46:04 PM
I'm very skeptical that this will even be built. Community opposition killed the project the last time and I don't see how it won't be any better this time, toll road or not. I honestly don't think that travel on I-465 is THAT bad to demand a new bypass around the city. Sure rush hour can get heavy in spots on the north and south sides it still isn't bad the rest of the time. What INDOT should do is widen I-465 to eight lanes at least around the city (something that is about half done already) and improve the freeway-to-freeway interchanges (such as 465/65 on the south side, which is going to be done next year.) This is just me though.

As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.

I agree that it probably will not get built and I agree that around SR 39 to SR 67 then somehow to I-70 would have been a decent route, but changing the route now would mean they are back to square one with the Feds, right? It would take years to get all the approvals. On the other hand, if it followed the proposed route to a tollway (which gets no Federal funds), that would be OK. At least that was the way I understand it. Still, that doesn't make it a good plan or likely to happen - just more doable than routing I-69 on to I-70.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 06, 2012, 07:06:07 PM
Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature (http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature)

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

I'm not in favor of it, it really doesn't solve our transportation issues in Indy.  I personally think that it will just make it worse (after initially making things better).  Indy needs to have a real mass transit system, it doesn't have to be a subway, but actually having a good bus system that covers the whole city is a good start.  I think this serves as a better bypass of the city but it doesn't solve the city's traffic issues.  But if they did build it, why is it a partial beltway? why not a full one?

An improved and expanded IndyGo bus system won't relieve I-69. The only thing that could help that would be having commuter coach routes from Anderson, Pendleton, Noblesville, Fishers, etc. - and a lot of people would have to use it.

As to why the bypass would be partial, a northern leg of the bypass would be difficult because it is built up and the Morse Reservoir is right there. I think it would have to go north of Cicero. Also, I bet there would be the highest concentration of NIMBYs in Hamilton County.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on December 06, 2012, 08:28:27 PM
Basically what I was trying to convey mukade is that building more roads isn't the answer locally, we need more than new roads to solve the transportation issues, better buses, creating train service, etc. are all things that are good ideas to start with.  I just think giving people multiple choices is better than just one.  I know Indy isn't Chicago or New York, but Indy needs more than just roads to solve the problem, but that's just what I think. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: wh15395 on December 07, 2012, 01:29:03 AM
Basically what I was trying to convey mukade is that building more roads isn't the answer locally, we need more than new roads to solve the transportation issues, better buses, creating train service, etc. are all things that are good ideas to start with.  I just think giving people multiple choices is better than just one.  I know Indy isn't Chicago or New York, but Indy needs more than just roads to solve the problem, but that's just what I think. 

Most people, including myself, would agree with you. I really don't even think traffic on I-69 is that bad anyway. I mean yeah, it's bad, but constantly widening the highway isn't going to fix it. Another beltway won't fix anything either, because the city will eventually just sprawl out towards it. At the least, we should build the transit system so that the only people driving on roads are those that do it by choice and not by necessity. People deserve another option than driving everywhere all the time.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 07, 2012, 05:28:09 AM
Basically what I was trying to convey mukade is that building more roads isn't the answer locally, we need more than new roads to solve the transportation issues, better buses, creating train service, etc. are all things that are good ideas to start with.  I just think giving people multiple choices is better than just one.  I know Indy isn't Chicago or New York, but Indy needs more than just roads to solve the problem, but that's just what I think. 

Most people, including myself, would agree with you. I really don't even think traffic on I-69 is that bad anyway. I mean yeah, it's bad, but constantly widening the highway isn't going to fix it. Another beltway won't fix anything either, because the city will eventually just sprawl out towards it. At the least, we should build the transit system so that the only people driving on roads are those that do it by choice and not by necessity. People deserve another option than driving everywhere all the time.

I am all for a well-planned, well run transit system in Indy, but I still have not really heard any serious plans for upgrade IndyGo. A year or two, they talked about buying diesel rail cars that would run from Fishers to downtown, and they have talked about expanding the bus system. Any expansion will be expensive because riders will not come just because it is there. That will take time and patience. Furthermore, IndyGo can't even replace its old buses with 700,000 miles on them with new buses - they buy used ones.

What I have not seen at all is a serious plan to create the commuter bus (coach) routes and/or van pools to all the outlying cities (Lafayette, Kokomo, Anderson, New Castle, Columbus, Bloomington, etc.). If you want to make a small dent in traffic counts on the Indianapolis freeways, that is what they really need.

All that said, I-69 traffic is bad and will continue to get worse. It would be nice for it to be widened to six lanes from 116th Street to Anderson or Daleville, but that would be years away unless I have missed something. So the new corridor would relieve some of that thru traffic, but the real purpose, as its name implies, is to leverage the expanding I-69 corridor to attract new businesses. Let's face it, South of Anderson and North of Martinsville (actually Crane)  will be difficult to build the type of large facilities that would benefit from being on a long corridor that will go right through a big chunk of the automotive manufacturing regions of North America. There is no room around Indy along I-69. And also to be honest, Anderson had big UAW issues at GM so the foreign auto manufacturers seem to have not wanted any part of building there, but that is beside the point. Greater Indy wants growth from the I-69 corridor.

So the ICC could bring some benefit to the region - I am not convinced that it would be sufficient to balance cost and risk, however. If they build it, how would it affect I-69 planning from Martinsville to Pendleton? I think that is the real question.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 19 on December 07, 2012, 08:48:47 AM
would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

I believe there is supposed to be an interchange at Fullerton Pike (or That Road or Tapp Road, don't remember exactly which but I'm pretty sure it's Fullerton.) That and the interchanges at SR 45 and SR 48 might be rebuilt (according to some of the plans that were up.) Granted, the plans aren't set in stone and those two interchange DON'T HAVE to be rebuilt immediately. I guess my question on the proposed work within Bloomington would be, if the overpasses and/or interchanges are built up to at least SR 46, would I-69 officially be designated that far north?

They're supposed to put in exits at tapp Rd. and Fullerton Pike.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on December 07, 2012, 08:50:27 AM
I-69 at rush hour is somewhat of a problem spot but Indianapolis has it really good in terms of traffic compared to most other cities.

(http://i.imgur.com/QIsbq.jpg)

I could see where a tolled freeway spur between I-69 near Fishers/Carmel/Pendelton, etc to I-70 near Greenfield would be useful.  People from those exurbs who work downtown could drive to I-70 that way, which would alleviate a fair amount of traffic from the I-69/I-465.  Personally, I think it would be much more useful if it went around North to US 31 and then stopped, than to go south from Greenfield to Shelbyville (and on around to Franklin, Martinsville, and Mooresville).  Just not the traffic between those cities.  Maybe if you routed most of the thing as I-69 and didn't upgrade SR 37 to freeway standards between Martinsville and I-465 it might make economic sense (but that would basically miss the point of building I-69 to Evansville in the first place).

I fail to see where 1) the private investment money is going to come from (the Indiana Toll Road privatization was done at the perfect time before the Great Recession to get max benefit) and 2) where the traffic is going to come from for the route past Greenfield to make enough money to build/maintain the road and cover finishing I-69.  They'd get a fair bit of traffic before/after Indiana University basketball/football games, but that's not going to make the road profitable.  The ICC project would easily run into the billions of dollars.

I also completely agree that the Indianapolis area needs to upgrade their mass transit systems.  I'm not sure on what the best way to do that is, but it's not an adequate system right now for the region.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: wh15395 on December 07, 2012, 11:24:06 AM
I am all for a well-planned, well run transit system in Indy, but I still have not really heard any serious plans for upgrade IndyGo. A year or two, they talked about buying diesel rail cars that would run from Fishers to downtown, and they have talked about expanding the bus system. Any expansion will be expensive because riders will not come just because it is there. That will take time and patience. Furthermore, IndyGo can't even replace its old buses with 700,000 miles on them with new buses - they buy used ones.

I disagree with this statement. I actually think if it was there, people would use it. I know plenty of people who would gladly use a bus system if they knew a bus would be there every 10-15 minutes like they should be. And they actually just increased IndyGo's budget by $8 million next year. This is going to create a new route along 86th  street from Trader's Point to Castleton and increase frequency on numerous routes. It's not as much as the Indy Connect plan calls for, but a decent start.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 07, 2012, 02:39:52 PM
Well, creating a new cross-town bus route along a surface street and increasing frequency on other surface routes will do nothing about freeway congestion. It costs a lot of money to have a safe, reliable, and frequent bus service, and there are many examples of where ridership was lower than projected. Either way, it doesn't affect I-69, and the source of the money for the proposed tollway is not from the same as that for a for a municipal bus system.



In the INDOT letting for that last contract in section 4 (i.e. the one that was previously rejected), I see the new completion date is now May 1, 2015. It had been projected to open in 2014 before.

December 12 Letting - Supplemental 2 (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/dec12/121212-SUPP2-NTC.pdf)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ysuindy on December 07, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
I live in Fishers and commute to downtown.  Right now, mass transit would not work a lot of days for me - with a high school senior at home I often leave to catch him doing something else away from Fishers.  But as he goes out to college next year, I would love to have the opportunity for a regularly scheduled, frequent mass transit rail.  I have no desire to sit in a bus that rides in the same traffic I'm in - but would be willing to hop a train downtown and back each day.  Of course by the time anything could ever get built, I'd like to think that I'm getting somewhat close to retiring.  :)

My preference - not others I'm sure.  And I am not sure what I would pay to ride each day/month.  But I do wish the legislature would be willing to put a well thought plan before the voters.  Guess we need that plan first.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on December 09, 2012, 03:30:55 PM
A dry summer also helped speed things along.

Although Indiana had severe drought as well, and water for the concrete was an issue in July. When I took a trip this Saturday to Evansville on the new road, I got to thinking about the asphalt sections versus concrete, and surmised if the water shortage didn't play a direct role in using asphalt, the calendar did. With the opening looming, the asphalt could go down a lot quicker than moving the concrete paving equipment to the multiple spots, letting it cure and then saw in the expansion and control joints.

Other observations and musings: The right of way fencing is a work in progress in spots near the southern end. It was nice riding on a road with no potholes. Only one billboard is up on the the new section, near Crane, and it looked like a guy with a backhoe was digging a hole for a foundation for another. It seemed like 20 dead racoons were on the road, and one squirrel, who were not notified  of the opening. No service signs yet, for gas, food or lodging.

From INDOT:









Indiana Department of Transportation: Southwest The reason for the asphalt sections are due to the type of soils in the area and under the roadway. This was determined through extensive testing of the soils. It allows for settling that could take place in these areas. Concrete is too rigid and would not be flexible in that scenario so asphalt was determined to be better in that area.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on December 09, 2012, 07:13:21 PM
According to a reply I received from INDOT, they are planning to install lighting at the US 50 interchange. Said the project should begin late winter or early spring. Also said that at this time, that is the only interchange set to receive lights.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on December 10, 2012, 09:37:17 AM
A dry summer also helped speed things along.

Although Indiana had severe drought as well, and water for the concrete was an issue in July. When I took a trip this Saturday to Evansville on the new road, I got to thinking about the asphalt sections versus concrete, and surmised if the water shortage didn't play a direct role in using asphalt, the calendar did. With the opening looming, the asphalt could go down a lot quicker than moving the concrete paving equipment to the multiple spots, letting it cure and then saw in the expansion and control joints.

Other observations and musings: The right of way fencing is a work in progress in spots near the southern end. It was nice riding on a road with no potholes. Only one billboard is up on the the new section, near Crane, and it looked like a guy with a backhoe was digging a hole for a foundation for another. It seemed like 20 dead racoons were on the road, and one squirrel, who were not notified  of the opening. No service signs yet, for gas, food or lodging.

From INDOT:

Indiana Department of Transportation: Southwest The reason for the asphalt sections are due to the type of soils in the area and under the roadway. This was determined through extensive testing of the soils. It allows for settling that could take place in these areas. Concrete is too rigid and would not be flexible in that scenario so asphalt was determined to be better in that area.

There are a couple of short sections of WI 29 about halfway between Wausau and Wittenburg, WI that were paved with asphalt for that reason, too.  The rest of the highway is concrete that still gives a very nice, smooth ride, but those asphalt parts, due to the boggyness of the subsoil, are always wavy.  Concrete there would have quickly broken up into rocks and gravel.

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 12, 2012, 06:33:24 PM
On the second try after all bids were over estimate this past summer, it looks as if the last contract in section 4 will be awarded to White Construction. Apparent bid results are here (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/dec12/apparent12-12-12.pdf). This is the hilly area just west of SR 45 to about four miles east of US 231.

Also, our friends at CARR are filing yet another lawsuit in hopes of stopping construction of the highway.

I-69 Opposition Fighting Legal Battle Despite Road Progress (http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-opposition-fighting-legal-battle-road-progress-41582/) (Indiana Public Media)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on December 12, 2012, 09:40:40 PM
^ Looks like they had bid alternates for either asphalt or concrete. Did they just let the lowest bid determine if it was asphalt or concrete?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on December 12, 2012, 09:58:46 PM
^ Looks like they had bid alternates for either asphalt or concrete. Did they just let the lowest bid determine if it was asphalt or concrete?

Probably not. Concrete is typically more expensive than asphalt, so there are usually some formulae involved to determine the "best" bid.
Title: Planned I-69 interchange at 106th Street
Post by: mukade on December 17, 2012, 10:47:32 PM
It sounds like this interchange will be like the soon-to-open I-69 Union Chapel Road interchange in Fort Wayne.

Fishers Town Council votes to join with Hamilton County on new I-69 interchange at 106th Street (http://www.indystar.com/article/20121217/LOCAL01/121217027/Fishers-Hamilton-County-push-new-69-interchange-106th-Street) (Indy Star)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 23, 2012, 10:39:48 PM
Official results show another contract in section 4 is indeed about to be awarded. Unfortunately, all bids for a smaller tree clearing contract that must precede it were over estimate, and presumably will be rejected.


Anyway, I was assuming that contract for building the highway was the last one for section 4, but I don't think "CONTRACT IR-33735-A" has been awarded after all original bids were rejected - and that one will be expensive.

  Official Bid Results from 09/12 (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/sep12/OFFICIAL_091212.pdf)




Article on the new Fort Wayne interchange from Saturday:

  Union Chapel interchange on I-69 opens today (http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20121222/LOCAL/312229973/1002/local) (Journal-Gazette)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on December 28, 2012, 10:36:32 PM
Quote
Gov.-elect Mike Pence said his administration will prioritize completing the project that Gov. Mitch Daniels — his fellow Republican — pushed about half the distance from Evansville to Indianapolis...

He said during this year's campaign that he intends to launch a blue-ribbon panel to study Indiana's infrastructure and funding needs, and that the options he pursue will evolve out of that panel's recommendations...

Full article: As Daniels prepares to leave office, Pence reaffirms commitment to finishing I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/dec/27/no-headline---interstate69/) (Evansville Courier & Press)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on December 29, 2012, 12:50:14 PM
Quote
Gov.-elect Mike Pence said his administration will prioritize completing the project that Gov. Mitch Daniels — his fellow Republican — pushed about half the distance from Evansville to Indianapolis...

He said during this year's campaign that he intends to launch a blue-ribbon panel to study Indiana's infrastructure and funding needs, and that the options he pursue will evolve out of that panel's recommendations...

Full article: As Daniels prepares to leave office, Pence reaffirms commitment to finishing I-69 (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/dec/27/no-headline---interstate69/) (Evansville Courier & Press)

Another quote from the INDOT Commissioner

Quote
"What we're trying to do is, as quickly as we can for the people in and around Bloomington, get section five completed," said INDOT Commissioner Michael B. Cline, who took the job under Daniels and will continue in it under Pence.

He said it's important to press forward with the Bloomington-to-Martinsville section as quickly as possible because a delay would force congestion that Bloomington's roadways are not prepared to handle.

All still depends on them finding a way to fund it, of course.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on December 30, 2012, 08:22:17 PM
I went down to Evansville today for my father's birthday and drove on I-69 for a second time. It also gave me an opportunity to drive on the highway with snow around, giving it a winter feel. I noticed a few things. First, there was some snow on the highway south of Exit 76 that was the result of blowing and drifting, giving the flat terrain and the north-south routing of the highway this may not be a great stretch to travel during a snowstorm. Two, an Indiana 58 shield was missing from one of the guide signs heading south and two actual guide signs for Exit 62 were gone. Going northbound approaching Exit 32 I saw that another guide sign had been struck, I wonder if the same fate meet the other guide signs and if the recent snowstorms had anything to do with that.

Three, I have heard of recent collisions with deer on this new highway, but my car's attenna almost had a collison with a bird that was flying around the highway, so I guess they're not used to the highway either or something. Finally on a sad note, someone's already written their name on one of the overpasses south of Washington (a different name on each side of the bridge) so there goes the pristine nature of the highway. Other than that, nothing new to report on any highway construction, since it's all snow covered there's likely none. I forget if it was mentioned or not, but SR 45 now has an overpass in the location of Exit 98, where I guess the new interstate will pass under. Furthermore, new gantries are already up at that location, minus the signs. In any case, 2014 can't come soon enough.

One more question, we were at the visitor's center in Downtown Evansville and my father (very interested in the whole I-69 project) had asked the person working at the desk about I-164, asking if there were any news about it changing over to I-69. They had heard that there is an idea about signing BOTH I-69 and I-164 along that stretch, though I'm not sure about when that would happen. I haven't heard anything about this before so I wasn't sure if such an idea was out there, is there any truth to this?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on January 01, 2013, 11:53:43 PM
There was a fairly strong wind event between Thanksgiving and Christmas (the date escapes me), and it looked to me - from the perspective of being a weather spotter - that at least some of the sign damage along I-69 had to be wind-related, in that in a couple of cases, the posts were still standing, but the signs broke off and bent backward (as they are designed to do).

It's not unheard of for some of Indiana's BGSes to self-destruct, either.  There's one on the new U.S. 231 southbound nearing SR 162 that has completely shed everything that isn't green.  Looks pretty wild!  (I need to get up there and snap a pic.)

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 08, 2013, 07:23:58 PM
Quote
The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) has awarded a $57 million contract to an Indiana company for a three-mile section of Interstate 69 in Greene County. The bid submitted by White Construction Inc of Clinton was the lowest among five contractors and $261,000 below the engineer's cost estimate...

State Awards I-69 Expansion Contract (http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=57325)

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on January 20, 2013, 09:22:56 AM
Here's the handout from INDOT's public hearing in Bloomington on Section 5 from back on December 6.  Does a pretty good job of explaining what the current plans are.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/hearing/handout.pdf

Estimated cost is either $545.6 million for Alternative 8A (with a full interchange at Walnut street) or $500.2 million for 8B (keeping the existing partial interchange @ Walnut St, but would require FHWA approval).

In these alternatives (which should be pretty close to final since they're planning on submitting it to the Feds for approval in the Spring), they're going to build a new overpass and extend 17th street and just close off the Vernal Pike interchange once that's done.  17th runs right into Vernal Pike if it gets extended west, so that's smart.

Also they are adding another lane but they're going to use the existing SR 37 median and put in a barrier in the middle instead of acquiring 12 feet of lane on both sides of the road).  This will be 6 lanes all the way from the I-69/SR 37 interchange to Sample Road.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/hearing/accessmaps.pdf
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on January 20, 2013, 10:09:18 AM
Here's the handout from INDOT's public hearing in Bloomington on Section 5 from back on December 6.  Does a pretty good job of explaining what the current plans are.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/hearing/handout.pdf

Estimated cost is either $545.6 million for Alternative 8A (with a full interchange at Walnut street) or $500.2 million for 8B (keeping the existing partial interchange @ Walnut St, but would require FHWA approval).

In these alternatives (which should be pretty close to final since they're planning on submitting it to the Feds for approval in the Spring), they're going to build a new overpass and extend 17th street and just close off the Vernal Pike interchange once that's done.  17th runs right into Vernal Pike if it gets extended west, so that's smart.

Also they are adding another lane but they're going to use the existing SR 37 median and put in a barrier in the middle instead of acquiring 12 feet of lane on both sides of the road).  This will be 6 lanes all the way from the I-69/SR 37 interchange to Sample Road.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/hearing/accessmaps.pdf

That PDF is a good, concise summary. As much as section 5 is interesting, there is one more I-69 section 4 contract to be let for a short section between US 231 and SR 45. That letting is now scheduled for March 6. This will be an expensive contract.

INDOT March 6, 2013 Regular Letting (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/mar06/030613-PR69-NTC.pdf)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on January 20, 2013, 09:22:39 PM
Here's the handout from INDOT's public hearing in Bloomington on Section 5 from back on December 6.  Does a pretty good job of explaining what the current plans are.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/hearing/handout.pdf

Thanks for sharing a very interesting document. I was curious about one thing. I'm sure others who have been following this project longer than I can answer this: why was Alternative 8 selected over either 6 or 7? The comparison in Table 3 indicates Alternatives 6 and 7 are better bargains in most ways.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on January 28, 2013, 07:21:33 AM
http://enr.construction.com/infrastructure/transportation/2013/0128-Indiana-DOT-Seeks-P3-for-I-69-Project.asp

Update on a possible funding mechanism for Section 5

Quote
Last month, INDOT put out a request for information (RFI) seeking public-private partnerships (P3s) to develop Section 5, a 23-mile segment between Bloomington and Martinsville. Construction would cost $350 million to $500 million, according to the RFI. A sixth leg, from Martinsville to Indianapolis, would complete the road but was not in the RFI's scope.

Early signs are encouraging. The state received 17 responses from "regional, national and international firms with extensive expertise in the design, construction and financing of large public infrastructure projects," says Will Wingfield, INDOT spokesman. Bidders are not allowed to use tolls for financing. "Many people think that P3s will instantly lead to tolling," says Wingfield. "We have committed that motorists will be able to drive from Evansville to Indianapolis without paying a toll."

The RFI seeks design-build-finance and design-build-finance-operate-maintain proposals. After reviewing the responses, the state says it will publish a request for qualifications as early as next month, with a final request for proposals in July and an award in October.

Will be interesting to see some of the proposals... wonder if someone will propose shadow tolls as a funding mechanism?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on January 28, 2013, 06:51:16 PM
I suspect Garvee Bonds most likely will be used.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on January 29, 2013, 07:52:56 AM
My first instinct is that must be the name of a baseball player from the 60s.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on January 29, 2013, 05:03:34 PM
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2d77vpk.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 29, 2013, 05:23:29 PM
(http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/bobby_bonds_autograph.jpg)

fixed that for ya
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on January 29, 2013, 06:50:40 PM
^^  :bigass: My favorite Bonds, along with Gary "U.S." Bonds.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on January 30, 2013, 06:21:05 PM
Bunch of jokers..........

Garvee bonds you know the stuff Kentucky has used to finance I-75, I-65 six lanes projects and the Louisville bridge projects. Basically it's a loan against future gas revenue.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on January 30, 2013, 08:06:19 PM
Yeah, I had looked it up, since I hadn't heard the term before. Google is a wonderful thing. Thanks for the explanation anyway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on January 30, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
The asphalt section of I-69 near the Patoka River bridges is sinking: http://www.14news.com/story/20877584/indot-says-i-69-is-sinking

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on January 31, 2013, 03:54:16 PM
I hope they mailed in the warranty card.  :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on February 02, 2013, 03:27:50 PM
So I-69 is sinking..........didn't know my ex-wife drove in that area.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on February 04, 2013, 09:34:25 PM
All big projects encourage grafters and greed but this was pretty bold if you ask me.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130203/NEWS14/302030317/Ethicists-question-secrecy-in-I-69-land-sales
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 05, 2013, 10:09:22 AM
All big projects encourage grafters and greed but this was pretty bold if you ask me.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130203/NEWS14/302030317/Ethicists-question-secrecy-in-I-69-land-sales

Sounds like they're gong to reopen an investigation and maybe change a law or two in response

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130204/NEWS05/302040334/Pence-weighs-in-on-I-69-land-dealings
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US71 on February 05, 2013, 11:50:26 AM
The asphalt section of I-69 near the Patoka River bridges is sinking: http://www.14news.com/story/20877584/indot-says-i-69-is-sinking



There's a similar problem along I-540 near Fayetteville, AR. Every 2-3 years, AHTD has to repave a couple small sections because the ground keeps sinking.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on February 06, 2013, 10:53:30 AM
And the same thing that I mentioned a few pages upthread - WisDOT did a couple of short stretches of WI 29 west of Wittenburg, WI with asphalt instead of their usual 'S.O.P.' concrete due to the swampy nature of the subsoils over which the road passes - it makes it much easier to smoothen the roadway as it continues to settle.

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: seicer on February 07, 2013, 09:30:21 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130203/NEWS02/302030069/
I-69: Indiana inspector general to look at I-69 land sale by state official
Feb 3, 2013
Ryan Sabalow and Tim Evans | The Indianapolis Star

WASHINGTON, IND. — The Indiana inspector general’s office has opened a second investigation into a land sale by a high-ranking Indiana Department of Transportation official of property along the proposed route for Interstate 69 through Southern Indiana.

Troy Woodruff, a former state lawmaker who oversaw 500 employees at the INDOT district through which I-69 passed, was cleared in 2010 by the inspector general, the state’s top ethics officer, in a land sale he made with the state.

He and his family had engaged in a series of deals that ultimately yielded an 83 percent gain on a piece of land Woodruff owned with his father and brother, but he said he didn’t use his influence or political connections to enrich himself or his family.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: jnewkirk77 on February 08, 2013, 01:28:12 AM
In reading the coverage of Woodruff's land dealings, I get the distinct impression that it ain't gonna end well ... for him.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on February 08, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Greed is a equal opportunity destroyer and Mr. Woodruff will be paying his and that of his family.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: SW Indiana on February 20, 2013, 05:39:41 PM
An electrical contractor has been working around the US 50 interchange the past week or so. Believe they are installing lighting, although, I've just noticed them working around the exit and entrance ramps.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 20, 2013, 05:59:14 PM
A stoplight there for the NB ramp up to US 50 wouldn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on February 20, 2013, 07:12:28 PM
Like most road projects I-69 will have back fill stuff as Indiana has to adjust to people's driving habits. You can predict behavior all you want but humans are humans.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 21, 2013, 08:55:22 PM
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/monroe-county-residents-surprised-i69-road-closure-45304/

Video from WTIU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYEEoR_YtOA&feature=youtu.be) (PBS Station in Bloomington)

Quote
As construction for Interstate 69 moves its way across southern Monroe County, permanent road closures are forcing some residents to rethink how they get around. As residents near the Monroe/Greene County line say the state did not give them advance warning about the closures.
 
Carter Road is a small, winding, sometimes gravel road that runs from State Road 45 in Greene County to Breeden Road in southwestern Monroe County. Michael Roberts rents a small home on Carter Road where he raises chickens and maintains a large vegetable garden. He says officials told him the road was closing just five days in advance.
 
“Unless we go to them, we don’t know anything,” he says. “In the past thee weeks they have cut our water line two or three times and didn’t tell us they were going to be digging around it or anything, I just feel that they don’t communicate with us at all, they don’t tell us anything.”
 
Other residents in both Monroe and Greene counties along the road expressed similar sentiments.
 
The right of way for the interstate, Roberts says, will be barely 100 feet from his front door. Since he is not a landowner, the state need not compensate him for any inconvenience brought by having an interstate as a new neighbor.
 
“Its just like, because we rent, we’re not even United States citizens, we don’t count for anything,” he says. “We are still taxpayers, we still live here. I’m a veteran of the army, its just crazy the way things have gone down around here.”
 
Officials from the Indiana Department of Transportation say plans to close the road have been in planning books for some time now. Spokesperson Cher Elliott says the final road closure plans were released at a public hearing in August of 2010.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on February 21, 2013, 10:38:47 PM
Seems this resident should be more angry at his landlord than at the state, for not passing along this information that INDOT reportedly and dutifully shared with landowners.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: trafficsignal on February 22, 2013, 09:16:14 AM
And it seems the Bloomington news went out of their way to publish a scenario that puts the I-69 construction in the worst possible light. :pan:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on February 22, 2013, 12:10:18 PM
Seems this resident should be more angry at his landlord than at the state, for not passing along this information that INDOT reportedly and dutifully shared with landowners.
For some reason, people love blaming the government for the bad things private parties do.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 23, 2013, 09:34:35 AM
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2013/02/23/news.indot-seeks-local-ok-to-start-i-69-work-along-ind-37.sto

It's behind a paywall now at the Bloomington Herald Times, but INDOT is seeking approval from the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization to start construction on upgrading SR 37 through Bloomington in 2014.  They will be spending $400k on design/right of way acqusition in 2013, and $20 million on construction in  both 2014 & 2015 and $27.6 million in right-of-away acquisition.  Construction is going to take place from where I-69 joins SR 37 to Kinser Pike, which is listed as the 5A to 5C segments (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeI/S5_Summary.pdf) on the DEIS.  It's around 9 miles in length.

Total money spent from 2013-2015 is estimated at $77.7 million.  No work is going to start north of Kinser Pike until after 2015.  It says the work north of Kinser Pike in the MPO's reigion is supposed to cost $82.9 million, but I think that's incorrect based on the last DEIS and most of that money would probably be going towards finishing section 5A-5C (which were estimated in the DEIS as costing $194 million and may end up 10-20 million less if Bloomington lets them take a strip of the Mountain Bike Park).

The HT article also says all of section 5 will cost $394 million when the last DEIS said $500 to $545 million earlier.  Maybe they got some new numbers from INDOT?

Appears INDOT has made this a priority and already budgeted the money out of their federal transportation dollars (and state budget).

Josh Demond (director of MPO) is quoted saying they want to make improvements to SR 37 before I-69 connects to the road.  Priorities would be the Tapp Road & the Vernal Pike/17th street overpass, along with the other intersections.  They are going to vote on April 12 on whether to approve the plan.

Here is the copy of the proposed TIP amendment on MPO's website.

http://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/13853.pdf

(http://i.imgur.com/cxs3EsG.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 23, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Sadly I can't get to the Herald Times, but was there any indication that they were going to build it as it states in the DEIS with six-lanes and interchanges at Fullerton and Tapp along with the bridges at the other locations?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 23, 2013, 03:58:51 PM
Sadly I can't get to the Herald Times, but was there any indication that they were going to build it as it states in the DEIS with six-lanes and interchanges at Fullerton and Tapp along with the bridges at the other locations?

There was no information on what was exactly going to get built in what order, just that the MPO would like Vernal Pike & Tapp Road done first and that there would be no work north of Kinser Pike until after 2015. I would assume that they're not going to make any radical changes from their preferred alternative in the DEIS at this point.  My guess is the $77 million would include funding for 1-3 and 7, and maybe parts of 4-6 from this construction sequencing from the DEIS (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeII/S5_Appendix_FF.pdf).

Will Wingfield from INDOT is quoted in the article saying they need approval first from the MPO before the FEIS and ROD can be issued.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 26, 2013, 08:35:33 AM
Yet another lawsuit trying to stop construction (although this would only stop it temporarily and make them issue another FEIS/ROD)

Quote
Opponents of the Interstate 69 highway extension say highway officials used outdated air emissions data in demonstrating that part of the highway now under construction complies with the Clean Air Act.
 
Highway opponents say state and federal officials used 2004 vehicular emissions data for Greene County in an environmental report to show that emissions were within required limits, even though newer data from 2009 showed higher estimated emissions levels.
 
Attorney Mick Harrison represents the opponents in their federal lawsuit accusing officials of violating several federal laws in the design, planning and construction of the half-completed 142-mile highway.
 
Harrison tells the Herald-Times he plans to file a motion seeking to halt work on a 27-mile section of the Evansville-to-Indianapolis highway now being built from the Crane area to Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on February 27, 2013, 11:18:04 PM
http://www.ibj.com/environmental-groups-lob-new-suit-at-i-69-work/PARAMS/article/39885

And CARR files another lawsuit too

Quote
An Indiana environmental group once again is attempting to stop construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and Indianapolis by filing suit in federal court.

 The Hoosier Environmental Council and Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads brought their complaint Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis seeking to overturn a permit the Army Corps of Engineers issued for the $3 billion project.

 The groups say the agency failed to comply with a section of the Clean Water Act because it approved a permit to discharge about 225,000 cubic yards of fill material into wetlands and streams in Greene and Monroe counties without considering less-damaging alternatives.

“In its own rules, the Corps has determined that 'most wetlands constitute a productive and valuable resource, the unnecessary alteration or destruction of which should be discouraged as contrary to the public interest,’” the environmental groups argue in their suit.

 A spokeswoman for the Louisville division of the Army Corps of Engineers said the agency is aware of the lawsuit but cannot comment on pending litigation.

 The complaint targets what’s known as Section 4 of I-69, which extends 26 miles from the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Bloomington. Construction on the stretch is under way and should be finished by the end of 2014 at an estimated cost of at least $532 million.

 The portion of roadway will cross 18 waterways, affecting about 88,000 linear feet of water and filling more than 9 acres of wetlands, the groups argue.

 The odds of halting work on the new terrain route appear long, however. Three sections of I-69 extending from Evansville to Crane already are finished.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on February 28, 2013, 12:56:30 AM
Please tell me that at some point the federal judge has the authority to make CARR pay the states legal bills.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 41 on February 28, 2013, 08:14:37 AM
Bloomington is run by a bunch of IU idiots. (I'm not joking.) They want to fight something just to fight it. Once I 69 goes through Bloomington everyone there will fall in love with it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on February 28, 2013, 09:44:31 AM
http://www.ibj.com/environmental-groups-lob-new-suit-at-i-69-work/PARAMS/article/39885

And CARR files another lawsuit too

Quote
An Indiana environmental group once again is attempting to stop construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and Indianapolis by filing suit in federal court.

 The Hoosier Environmental Council and Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads brought their complaint Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis seeking to overturn a permit the Army Corps of Engineers issued for the $3 billion project.

 The groups say the agency failed to comply with a section of the Clean Water Act because it approved a permit to discharge about 225,000 cubic yards of fill material into wetlands and streams in Greene and Monroe counties without considering less-damaging alternatives.

“In its own rules, the Corps has determined that 'most wetlands constitute a productive and valuable resource, the unnecessary alteration or destruction of which should be discouraged as contrary to the public interest,’” the environmental groups argue in their suit.

 A spokeswoman for the Louisville division of the Army Corps of Engineers said the agency is aware of the lawsuit but cannot comment on pending litigation.

 The complaint targets what’s known as Section 4 of I-69, which extends 26 miles from the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Bloomington. Construction on the stretch is under way and should be finished by the end of 2014 at an estimated cost of at least $532 million.

 The portion of roadway will cross 18 waterways, affecting about 88,000 linear feet of water and filling more than 9 acres of wetlands, the groups argue.

 The odds of halting work on the new terrain route appear long, however. Three sections of I-69 extending from Evansville to Crane already are finished.

I mean, what do they think they are going to accomplish with this??? Re-route I-69 on US 41 and I-70?? Downgrade the finished portions of I-69 to a 4-lane expressway and call it IN 37?? Or, just stall it to death and convert it into a high-speed rail corridor.

I sympathize with those who want to protect sensitive environmental areas, but this is getting farcical now.  Seriously.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: trafficsignal on February 28, 2013, 10:16:15 AM
http://www.ibj.com/environmental-groups-lob-new-suit-at-i-69-work/PARAMS/article/39885

And CARR files another lawsuit too

Quote
An Indiana environmental group once again is attempting to stop construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and Indianapolis by filing suit in federal court.

 The Hoosier Environmental Council and Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads brought their complaint Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis seeking to overturn a permit the Army Corps of Engineers issued for the $3 billion project.

 The groups say the agency failed to comply with a section of the Clean Water Act because it approved a permit to discharge about 225,000 cubic yards of fill material into wetlands and streams in Greene and Monroe counties without considering less-damaging alternatives.

“In its own rules, the Corps has determined that 'most wetlands constitute a productive and valuable resource, the unnecessary alteration or destruction of which should be discouraged as contrary to the public interest,’” the environmental groups argue in their suit.

 A spokeswoman for the Louisville division of the Army Corps of Engineers said the agency is aware of the lawsuit but cannot comment on pending litigation.

 The complaint targets what’s known as Section 4 of I-69, which extends 26 miles from the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Bloomington. Construction on the stretch is under way and should be finished by the end of 2014 at an estimated cost of at least $532 million.

 The portion of roadway will cross 18 waterways, affecting about 88,000 linear feet of water and filling more than 9 acres of wetlands, the groups argue.

 The odds of halting work on the new terrain route appear long, however. Three sections of I-69 extending from Evansville to Crane already are finished.

I mean, what do they think they are going to accomplish with this??? Re-route I-69 on US 41 and I-70?? Downgrade the finished portions of I-69 to a 4-lane expressway and call it IN 37?? Or, just stall it to death and convert it into a high-speed rail corridor.

I sympathize with those who want to protect sensitive environmental areas, but this is getting farcical now.  Seriously.

I just drove by this section on Tuesday.  From the (future) overpass on SR 45, it appears only tree clearing has been completed, and no fill has been placed, at least in the vicinity of SR 45.  Perhaps the goal is to limit the I-69 project to its current limits (US 231 area), but I agree it seems like a good way for lawyers to make some money since it is highly unlikely to be a successful case.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on February 28, 2013, 11:20:12 AM
(http://www.aaroads.com/midwest/indiana040/in-045_nb_at_i-069_small.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/midwest/indiana040/in-045_nb_at_i-069.jpg)

Just posted this photo to the I-69 Indiana guide (http://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0069in) showing Indiana 45 north at future Interstate 69 south of Cincinnati. Photo by Jeff. R on February 18, 2013.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on February 28, 2013, 01:40:02 PM
http://www.ibj.com/environmental-groups-lob-new-suit-at-i-69-work/PARAMS/article/39885

And CARR files another lawsuit too

Quote
An Indiana environmental group once again is attempting to stop construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and Indianapolis by filing suit in federal court.

 The Hoosier Environmental Council and Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads brought their complaint Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis seeking to overturn a permit the Army Corps of Engineers issued for the $3 billion project.

 The groups say the agency failed to comply with a section of the Clean Water Act because it approved a permit to discharge about 225,000 cubic yards of fill material into wetlands and streams in Greene and Monroe counties without considering less-damaging alternatives.

“In its own rules, the Corps has determined that 'most wetlands constitute a productive and valuable resource, the unnecessary alteration or destruction of which should be discouraged as contrary to the public interest,’” the environmental groups argue in their suit.

 A spokeswoman for the Louisville division of the Army Corps of Engineers said the agency is aware of the lawsuit but cannot comment on pending litigation.

 The complaint targets what’s known as Section 4 of I-69, which extends 26 miles from the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center to Bloomington. Construction on the stretch is under way and should be finished by the end of 2014 at an estimated cost of at least $532 million.

 The portion of roadway will cross 18 waterways, affecting about 88,000 linear feet of water and filling more than 9 acres of wetlands, the groups argue.

 The odds of halting work on the new terrain route appear long, however. Three sections of I-69 extending from Evansville to Crane already are finished.

I mean, what do they think they are going to accomplish with this??? Re-route I-69 on US 41 and I-70?? Downgrade the finished portions of I-69 to a 4-lane expressway and call it IN 37?? Or, just stall it to death and convert it into a high-speed rail corridor.

I sympathize with those who want to protect sensitive environmental areas, but this is getting farcical now.  Seriously.

I had some sympathy with the CARR folks, especially after reading Matt Dellinger's excellent book. I thought in balance they were wrong, but I understood that reasonable people could object to the road with reasonable arguments.

It's surely to the point now that they should see the handwriting on the wall. It has become obstructionism just for the sake of obstructionism. The road will be built, and it's just become a punitive contest to see how much they can cost the state (and us taxpayers). I hope the state does ask for costs, though they probably won't get it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on February 28, 2013, 03:17:24 PM
Bloomington is run by a bunch of IU idiots. (I'm not joking.) They want to fight something just to fight it. Once I 69 goes through Bloomington everyone there will fall in love with it.

Please note however that not everyone in B-Town hates the new highway. Plenty of people there are happy that it will be built and await a quicker route toward Evansville and north to Indianapolis. You just hear about this vocal minority that continues to protest the project because it promotes conflict and conflict sells news stories a lot better than cooperation. Economically, Bloomington probably stands to gain the most from the highway connection, while communities like Washington and Petersburg can only hope that they will be able to grow from the new highway, Bloomington already has the development and growth to improve itself with this interstate connection, and there ARE people in Bloomington who realize this.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 41 on February 28, 2013, 04:12:12 PM
Bloomington is run by a bunch of IU idiots. (I'm not joking.) They want to fight something just to fight it. Once I 69 goes through Bloomington everyone there will fall in love with it.

Please note however that not everyone in B-Town hates the new highway. Plenty of people there are happy that it will be built and await a quicker route toward Evansville and north to Indianapolis. You just hear about this vocal minority that continues to protest the project because it promotes conflict and conflict sells news stories a lot better than cooperation. Economically, Bloomington probably stands to gain the most from the highway connection, while communities like Washington and Petersburg can only hope that they will be able to grow from the new highway, Bloomington already has the development and growth to improve itself with this interstate connection, and there ARE people in Bloomington who realize this.

I know I'm just talking about the (IU) politicians that want to fight everything. Most of the people probably either want it or don't care if it comes through. I drove on Country Club Road however and there was a sign in someone's yard that said Stop I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on February 28, 2013, 09:30:46 PM
I think tdindy is right that there are plenty of folks (probably the majority) in B-town that realize the value of the road. They just have no motivation to be vocal, because they realize the inevitability of its construction. The obstructionists, on the other hand, know that they have to squawk as loudly as possible to have any chance to stop it.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on March 06, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
INDOT is asking that the Bloomington/Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization amend its Transportation Improvement Program to include Section 5 of I-69. Details are
on the buildi69.com website (http://www.buildi69.com/?p=1901)
 
Quote
INDOT hopes to begin safety improvements to existing Highway 37 in late 2013. In order to maintain that schedule and allow safety upgrades to be completed prior to completion of Section 4, it is essential that MPO members vote to approve the inclusion of Section 5 in the TIP amendment, ensuring funds from Federal Highway Administration.

They are requesting supporters to attend the MPO meeting Friday, April 12, at 1:30 pm in Bloomington City Hall.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on March 07, 2013, 09:01:02 AM
Some cool news.  I noticed yesterday that the street views are now available on google maps for the completed portion of I-69 in southwestern Indiana.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 41 on March 07, 2013, 09:03:20 AM
Some cool news.  I noticed yesterday that the street views are now available on google maps for the completed portion of I-69 in southwestern Indiana.

Cool, I'll have to check that out.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on March 09, 2013, 02:00:29 PM
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/i69-construction-begins-tokarski-property-46314/

I-69 construction has started on the CARR founders' property

Quote
Plans to connect Indianapolis to Evansville via Interstate 69 have been in the works for decades. In 2002, Tom and Sandra Tokarski organized a group of South Central Indiana residents to fight a plan to build the road on new terrain. Their group, Citizens for Appropriate Rural Roads, or CARR, has been the forefront opposition to then Governor Mitch Daniels’ plan to construct the highway.

Now, less than five years after the highway broke ground in Evansville, construction has begun on the Tokarski’s property.

“It tears your heart out. This is everything we have worked our whole life for,” he says. “We have lived here for decades, this is what we believed in, this is what we wanted to preserve, it was our legacy for the future, for our children, and our grandchildren. It’s all being obliterated for I-69.”

The Tokarskis plan to move before the highway is complete. Thomas is a self proclaimed environmentalist.

“We have preserved our woods in a way, we have tried to control erosion, we have let the trees grow, we have let the wildlife live here. We never intended to cut this timber, we were going to let it grow, we consider this a living work of art,” he says.

While we visited the Tokarski’s property Friday, workers who were there clearing trees tried to block the WFIU/WTIU News crew from filming the construction.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on March 09, 2013, 03:21:50 PM
It's funny how they have no video of these supposed workers trying to stop them. If anything, the workers were probably trying to keep them out of a construction site for safety. Media with an agenda at it's finest.

As for Tom, I understand it's tough to lose your property, but this fight has been on too long now. The inevitable is here now, stop the wasteful attempts.  I need to find out where this is, so I can honk and wave as I drive by.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on March 09, 2013, 03:53:37 PM
I would see TT as more honest if he refused to cash INDOT's check for his property.

He probably won't do that.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 09, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
I think I've mentioned this further up, but I wonder if CARR would have been founded if Tom's property wasn't threatened by I-69's construction. Was the founding of CARR something out of his actual love for the enviroment, or self-preservation?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on March 09, 2013, 09:29:26 PM
Tom,

Keep your remaining property, I am sure your kids will be happy to deal with Day's Inn, McDonalds et al when you are long gone.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 09, 2013, 10:34:48 PM
Would serve him right if he doesn't own property where an exit will be.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on March 09, 2013, 11:14:05 PM
I usually find that these 'environmentalist' types are supremely hypocritical, in that they live on (so called) 'pristine' property that is far out from where they work and do everything else and drive the heaviest sooves to travel between them.

I recall back in the early-mid 1990s, while I was idly browsing the magazine racks at the Appleton Pvblic Library one afternoon, I found a copy of one of those enviro-whacko journals, picked it up from the rack, opened it and right there on the inside of the front cover was a multi-page foldout ad for the biggest soove on the market at that time.

 :-D

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on March 10, 2013, 10:10:29 AM
This guy doesn't seem to get the big picture. All that matters is his own private nature preserve, and a highway totally inappropriate for such a setting is going to obliterate it.

The reality, Mr Tokarski, is that I-69 is perfectly appropriate for Indiana and the Midwest at large, and there is still plenty more natural space.  Your backyard was not the only pristine chunk of land in southern Indiana. Focus your conservation efforts at local planning and zoning policies towards land development, not highways.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on March 10, 2013, 12:19:26 PM
If anyone thinks a highway is going to transform their rural area into suburbia they should travel the I-88 corridor in NY, which is no more developed than it was before I-88 was built.  Fact: if your area becomes suburbia, you chose it yourself, by voting to change the zoning laws to allow development.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: InterstateNG on March 10, 2013, 01:01:00 PM
Geeks who like roads being built but who have never owned land should probably not opine on the matter.

I agree that he takes his opposition too far, but to suggest he shouldn't be upset about losing his property, or that he shouldn't be compensated for it, is asinine.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 10, 2013, 02:44:28 PM
It's been my observation -- and in one case, personal experience -- that governments generally overpay for ROW needed for road construction. Add in the fact that they will also pay relocation costs if a new road takes your house and it's my considered opinion that landowners generally come out to the good in such scenarios.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 10, 2013, 04:01:06 PM
If anyone thinks a highway is going to transform their rural area into suburbia they should travel the I-88 corridor in NY, which is no more developed than it was before I-88 was built.  Fact: if your area becomes suburbia, you chose it yourself, by voting to change the zoning laws to allow development.

Since there will be no exits along I-69 in that part of Monroe County (including Tom's property) it's safe to say there will be no suburban style development in that region. I'd imagine that a community like Bloomington is strict on zoning in the rural areas and that the only real suburban style development along I-69 in that county will be around Bloomington, and if anyone's been to SR 37 and SR 48 that is already a reality.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on March 10, 2013, 08:36:14 PM
If anyone thinks a highway is going to transform their rural area into suburbia they should travel the I-88 corridor in NY, which is no more developed than it was before I-88 was built.  Fact: if your area becomes suburbia, you chose it yourself, by voting to change the zoning laws to allow development.
Actually it takes a lot more than that.  I-80 exits 97 and 105, not too far west of the Chicago area, have literally nothing around them except a closed restaurant and a big storage building that used to be a Stuckey's.  And corn and soybean fields.  No services of any kind in the immediate area of the exits.  The exits were built in 1960, and the county containing Exit 97 had no zoning until 2006.  In my opinion, it was the lack of the nearby communities extending water, sewer and natural gas to the exit areas that inhibited any development, as well as the possibility that the land owners valued the adjacent land higher than prospective developers were willing to pay.  And there is also the demand for development that is either there or not, and doen't "automatically" follow the placement of a new highway. 

Exit 105 may finally get developed as a result of a rail/truck intermodal that is being developed on the CSX rail line a few miles to the south, but it's been in the works for 5 years with no dirt turned yet.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on March 11, 2013, 08:52:31 PM
I think I've mentioned this further up, but I wonder if CARR would have been founded if Tom's property wasn't threatened by I-69's construction. Was the founding of CARR something out of his actual love for the enviroment, or self-preservation?
My recollection of Matt Dellinger's well-researched book on the subject, Tom registered his objection to the project before the definition of the alternative corridors, much less the selection of the one running through his property. Of course, he had a long history of protesting projects that he thought would despoil the country, so his opposition here was to be expected. I have little doubt that the final route selection through his back yard influenced his perseverance. NIMBY indeed!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on March 12, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
It would be ironic if his back yard was targeted for the routing because he's such a NIMBY.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hoosierguy on March 23, 2013, 04:44:29 PM
I usually find that these 'environmentalist' types are supremely hypocritical, in that they live on (so called) 'pristine' property that is far out from where they work and do everything else and drive the heaviest sooves to travel between them.

I recall back in the early-mid 1990s, while I was idly browsing the magazine racks at the Appleton Pvblic Library one afternoon, I found a copy of one of those enviro-whacko journals, picked it up from the rack, opened it and right there on the inside of the front cover was a multi-page foldout ad for the biggest soove on the market at that time.

 :-D

Mike

Right, so that somehow makes the substance of the message of the environmentalist movement invalid if you can somehow make them out to be "hypocrites" as if polluted air, water, soil, and global climate change will magically cease to exist.

The pavement worshippers on this site make me sick. Just pave everything. Who cares that this road was given approval using intentionally outdated air quality figures?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hoosierguy on March 23, 2013, 04:46:52 PM
Bloomington is run by a bunch of IU idiots. (I'm not joking.) They want to fight something just to fight it. Once I 69 goes through Bloomington everyone there will fall in love with it.

Bloomington is a far nicer, tolerant, and diverse place because it is run by "idiots." You can keep your cesspool dump Terre Haute with its precious interstate access.

The local politicians are OVERWHELMINGLY elected by the public so it is more than safe to say their views reflect those of the citizenry. Why can't a pro I-69 politician get elected in Bloomington? You can't explain that.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 23, 2013, 08:44:49 PM
The pavement worshippers on this site make me sick.

Uh, this is a roads site.


Bloomington is a far nicer, tolerant, and diverse place because it is run by "idiots." You can keep your cesspool dump Terre Haute with its precious interstate access.

The local politicians are OVERWHELMINGLY elected by the public so it is more than safe to say their views reflect those of the citizenry. Why can't a pro I-69 politician get elected in Bloomington? You can't explain that.

Bloomington is just a pimple on the ass of the rest of the state that wants -- and in the case of the areas to the south and west of it, needs -- this road. If the people there want to fight traffic lights and surface traffic on 37 when they try to go to Indianapolis, they shouldn't be able to dictate to the rest of the people between Indy and Evansville that they have to put up with the same nonsense.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 23, 2013, 08:48:32 PM
The pavement worshippers on this site make me sick.

Uh, this is a roads site.
Which doesn't mean all its members must be idiots. Some of us actually realize that the current default policy of building more roads is getting us fucked in the ass.

Swearing is allowed. Name-calling, especially in terms of politics, is not. Don't make it personal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: 3467 on March 23, 2013, 09:03:02 PM
I have no problem with roads. but building raods for the sake of it no way. I have long ranted about the stupidity around US 20 in Illinois and I generally support I-69 esp. this segment
In Illinois the legislature has been voting on various pension cutting schemes even when the Constituation says no and the Democratic Senate leader said hed rather spend money on roads.....The pension cutting fever has spread to Kentucky now . I hope hbelkins gets his pension. Anyway i am veeering off topic. There is a pension thread I started because it is an important issue to our DOT employees
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on March 23, 2013, 09:43:07 PM
I usually find that these 'environmentalist' types are supremely hypocritical, in that they live on (so called) 'pristine' property that is far out from where they work and do everything else and drive the heaviest sooves to travel between them.

I recall back in the early-mid 1990s, while I was idly browsing the magazine racks at the Appleton Pvblic Library one afternoon, I found a copy of one of those enviro-whacko journals, picked it up from the rack, opened it and right there on the inside of the front cover was a multi-page foldout ad for the biggest soove on the market at that time.

 :-D

Mike

Right, so that somehow makes the substance of the message of the environmentalist movement invalid if you can somehow make them out to be "hypocrites" as if polluted air, water, soil, and global climate change will magically cease to exist.

The pavement worshippers on this site make me sick. Just pave everything. Who cares that this road was given approval using intentionally outdated air quality figures?

Ummmm....not all members of this forum are right-wing "smother everything with concrete" neanderthals; and just because you don't like the road doesn't give you the right to demonize those who do for their own reasons.

You may talk all you want about how terrible this road may be, but the people and politicians of Indiana have spoken enough about this road to build nearly half of it....and it's probably better to simply end this madness of absolutism and work to make the finished project as environmentally friendly and effective as it can be.

For the record, I may be the most politically left-wing participant in this forum, and I sympathize with the overall goals of enviromnentalists who have legitimate concerns about protecting resources and people. But, there comes a time when good intentions cross the line into simple blind myopia...and Bloomington's war against I-69 has long since passed that line.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: 3467 on March 23, 2013, 10:38:06 PM
I amy be close to you left wise Anthony and I do enjoy NE2s humor but this strech of 1-69 has been studied for maybe 50 years long before 1-69 and CARR and Bloomington did exercise their rights druing the EIS and their suits over NEPA and the ESA. I support those rights and reveiw There sould not be knee jerk response against regulations. They do take time but they help our system by preventing Malinvestment (google Ghost cities of China)But here CARR did raise serious issues and the judge that reveiwed them gave a serious response esp in RE The Indiana bat,while WNS has changed and will change things some in the future . I  69 will not endanger any species and that is good.
At this point Bloomington is whining about an already 4 lane bypass that has nneded work for 30 years
What needs focus is revsing states like Illinois with 15-20 billion in fanatsy roads when it has 80 Billion in infunded pension debt and a total of 120 billion of debt.
Sanity says that something like Missouri's 2+1 makes more sense
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alex on March 24, 2013, 11:23:32 AM
The extension of I-69 is one of the few new road projects that has any momentum in this country. Most other highway projects these days affect existing roadways for things like widening, straightening, short realignments, maintenance, replacement, etc. The concept of "paving over everything" applies more to commercial developers and housing builders. They deserve the angst, but rarely seem to get it...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on March 24, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
The concept of "paving over everything" applies more to commercial developers

Most literally true of Walmart and other big boxes, with their hundred-acre parking lots.  Has anyone (protesters or zoning boards) asked Walmart to build a 3-level parking structure and public greenspace instead?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 24, 2013, 02:29:07 PM
Has anyone (protesters or zoning boards) asked Walmart to build a 3-level parking structure and public greenspace instead?
There are several multi-story Walmarts due to zoning.
http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/walmart-gets-into-the-zone/article_fa78294e-d070-11e1-8070-001a4bcf887a.html
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: JREwing78 on March 24, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
Madison, WI has one (as well as a multi-story Target).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on March 24, 2013, 06:20:08 PM
Bloomington had a smaller Wal-Mart right at the SR 45/SR 37 (future I-69) interchange that also shared the space with Sam's Club. Of course, Wal-Mart HAD to build a new store at the intersection with SR 45 and Curry Pike, abandoning their previous property and building a store with a larger footprint (and a gas station!) So yeah, Bloomington is really dedicated to preventing this kind of development.

Since Google still hasn't updated imagry for the city since 2005 (before the store was built) here's the Bing imagary of the site.

http://binged.it/15IK8SF

And for anyone really worried about the potential sprawl that I-69 would bring to B-Town, just pan north of that image and look at the well-planned area of SR 48 and SR 37.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on March 24, 2013, 10:29:38 PM
Swearing is allowed. Name-calling, especially in terms of politics, is not. Don't make it personal.

It is?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=992.0

Quote
What's not allowed:
...
Pointless cursing.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on March 25, 2013, 12:30:19 AM
I wouldn't say NE2's cursing was pointless, or done for shock value.  When someone of this generation feels that way about something, that's quite natural language to use to convey that concern.  It could be put more politely, but that might dull the message and/or sound uncharacteristic of the speaker.  I, on the other hand, am comfortable using many polite words where a few vulgar ones would suffice — in writing, anyway.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on March 25, 2013, 05:26:55 AM
My bad. I meant to say it's getting us fought in the Alps.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on March 25, 2013, 08:58:47 AM
The extension of I-69 is one of the few new road projects that has any momentum in this country. Most other highway projects these days affect existing roadways for things like widening, straightening, short realignments, maintenance, replacement, etc. The concept of "paving over everything" applies more to commercial developers and housing builders. They deserve the angst, but rarely seem to get it...

It is generally recognized that there will be few new "greenfield" highway projects in this country in this century. I was part of the golden era of legacy interstate highway construction, working on the original construction of I-55 in IL as a teenager.  I also worked on a rail transit extension not much later...what is now the Metra Electric extension to University Park.  I have continued to work on highway and rail projects through my current career.  The process for planning and designing any large "public works" project on new alignment is much more deliberate and expensive than it used to be, and affects all modes including the high speed rail projects being pursued as well as the new alignment highways that are in planning.  Having also worked with developers (mostly in a permit review mode) the private development process is a little more deliberate than it used to be, but has not expanded nearly as much as for the public sector projects.  It is fair to say that public involvement is a greater part of both sectors' development processes than in years past, although private development focuses more on positive PR while public development strives more for input and inclusion. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 02, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
INDOT takes the CARR Founders to court

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/tokarskis-argue-court-access-land-47481/

Quote
INDOT officials are seeking what is known as a writ of assistance to help keep Tom and Sandra Tokarski off land they previously owned through which contractors are building I-69. The couple is allowed on adjacent land, but not on the road’s right-of-way or on an easement next to the road’s path.
 
They allege they’re not only allowed to be on the land, but they need to be there to keep contractors from fouling the environment. In court Tuesday, lawyers for the state sought to show the area is dangerous because of the heavy machinery operating there and the changing topography of the area – both of which can cause liability issues for the state and imminent danger to any visitors.
 
But the Tokarskis’ lawyer Rudolph Savich says he thinks that argument is a smoke screen generated after the couple filed a complaint with the Indiana Department of Environmental Management about polluted runoff at the site.
 
“It never became an issue until they got a complaint from IDEM about the lack of erosion control.  It seems to me fairly obvious that the true reason for this write of assistance to keep the Tokarskis off their property was to keep them from being able to document these environmental violations and not the Tokarskis’ or anybody else’s safety.”
 
While on the stand, Tom Tokarski was asked about a state statute which says it’s illegal to interfere with state work. “If telling the truth is interfering with their work,” he responded, “Then I guess we’re guilty.”
 
Savich says he believes the case will be appealed no matter how judge Francie Hill rules.  That ruling could come in the next couple weeks. A trial has tentatively been scheduled for April of next year after attorneys for both sides agreed mediation was unlikely to succeed. Lawyers for the state repeatedly declined comment Tuesday.
Title: I-69 Contract Awarded in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 02, 2013, 06:54:21 PM
The last contract for section 4 was finally awarded.

March 20, 2013 Special Letting Results (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/mar20/OFFICIAL032013.pdf)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 02, 2013, 07:24:30 PM
Quote
While on the stand, Tom Tokarski was asked about a state statute which says it’s illegal to interfere with state work. “If telling the truth is interfering with their work,” he responded, “Then I guess we’re guilty.”

In a manner of speaking, pointing out some improper methods in the state's work does indeed interfere with the state's improper work.  But more to the point, trespassing in a construction zone is interfering with the state's work.  The Tokarskis' self-appointed capacity as environmental protection protocol watchdogs does not excuse them from that offense.  Had INDOT hired them for that purpose — and I suspect they'd be willing to do the job for free — the story would be different.  (There would probably be a site-safety training day, some hard hats, and a signing of liability waivers for starters…)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on April 02, 2013, 08:38:06 PM
And when the goverbagger decides to ignore environmental protection...
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on April 02, 2013, 09:12:02 PM
EPA is extremely aggressive when it comes to erosion control inspections. If there really was/is a problem, there will be a press release in a little while announcing the problem and how much INDOT is getting fined.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on April 02, 2013, 09:25:55 PM
Of course, the Tokarskis are experts and know improper erosion control efforts when they see it.  :bigass:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: seicer on April 02, 2013, 10:12:36 PM
Quote
While on the stand, Tom Tokarski was asked about a state statute which says it’s illegal to interfere with state work. “If telling the truth is interfering with their work,” he responded, “Then I guess we’re guilty.”

In a manner of speaking, pointing out some improper methods in the state's work does indeed interfere with the state's improper work.  But more to the point, trespassing in a construction zone is interfering with the state's work.  The Tokarskis' self-appointed capacity as environmental protection protocol watchdogs does not excuse them from that offense.  Had INDOT hired them for that purpose — and I suspect they'd be willing to do the job for free — the story would be different.  (There would probably be a site-safety training day, some hard hats, and a signing of liability waivers for starters…)

Hardly. Watchdog groups are known all over for being the independent, third party voice that is needed to keep government and corporations in check.

Like with the Arkansas oil pipeline bust and subsequent environmental disaster. Exxon is busy keeping photographers and press at bay - they don't want others to see the destruction that has been caused.

It's about checks and balances. Do you think that INDOT will let an environmental organization onto a construction site? Hardly.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on April 02, 2013, 10:49:40 PM
Not only will there be INDOT inspectors overseeing the job and telling the contractor to mitigate any damage or stop improper  actions, there will probably be someone from Indiana's version of what Kentucky calls the Division of Water riding herd on the contractor, as well.

This is just the Tokarskis being assholes.

Plus, given our experience at the Fort-to-Port meet when some of the attendees were chased off the work site by an unfriendly Indiana state trooper, I'd posit that Indiana is pretty proactive when it comes to keeping trespassers out of construction projects.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on April 04, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
I just logged into AAroads and found a bit of irony in the banner ad that appeared at the top:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/1622s78.png)

Some B-town residents are trying to make it harder for me to get there.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 04, 2013, 04:25:43 PM
I just logged into AAroads and found a bit of irony in the banner ad that appeared at the top:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/1622s78.png)

Some B-town residents are trying to make it harder for me to get there.  :banghead:

How is Bloomington, IN "The Cultural Pulse of the Midwest"?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 04, 2013, 04:30:28 PM
I would have thought Chicago would be that. It is definently the Cultural Pulse of Monroe County however. It is a magazine quote and you can't always take those things in advertisements at face value.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on April 04, 2013, 09:01:27 PM
They had to come up with some slogan. It's a tough job. "More exciting than Jasper"?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 04, 2013, 09:44:48 PM
How about "Where Bobby Knight chocked his players before it was cool"?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 05, 2013, 06:55:05 AM
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/apr/04/indiana-senate-budget-includes-sliver-gov-pences-p/

Quote
The Indiana Senate is advancing a new two-year, $30 billion budget that matches the education funding increases already approved by the House and sets extra money aside to eventually expand the state’s highways.

Quote
The Senate’s budget increases roads funding by $112 million annually for the Indiana Department of Transportation and another $101 million for municipalities – as long as those municipalities have enacted wheel taxes.

“There does need to be skin in the game,” Long said. “There is a method for helping yourself – the wheel tax. We think if the state invests, so should the locals.”

It also sets aside $200 million per year to go into a new “Major Moves 2020” fund. That fund would eventually be tapped to finish the 142-mile Interstate 69 extension, as well as add a third lane each way to Interstate 65 and Interstate 70 and build the “Indiana Commerce Connector,” a proposed tolled loop around the southeast side of Indianapolis.

Here is the relevant slide from the budget summary (http://www.in.gov/legislative/senate_republicans/images/photogallery/Documents/Senate%20Budget%20slides%20for%202013-04-04%20Committee%20Presentation%20-%20UPDATED%20-%20for%20website.pdf) that was released

(http://i.imgur.com/4YQNdOL.jpg)L.jpg)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 05, 2013, 10:01:45 AM
Went up to Anderson this week on I-65 and a widening and rebuild is badly needed. It's in very poor shape and over traveled with tons of Semi's. Kentucky will have I-65 six lanes by 2020-22 time frame (the horrific crashes south of Elizabethtown have kicked them into gear). So if this plan goes thru then I-65 could six lanes from Chicago area to Tennesse/Kentucky border by 2025 (wow). Not a fan of the commerce connector as the local roads are plenty good to go back door into Anderson. Would rather spend that money on US-31 north of Indy and US-150 towards Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: trafficsignal on April 05, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/apr/04/indiana-senate-budget-includes-sliver-gov-pences-p/

Here is the relevant slide from the budget summary (http://www.in.gov/legislative/senate_republicans/images/photogallery/Documents/Senate%20Budget%20slides%20for%202013-04-04%20Committee%20Presentation%20-%20UPDATED%20-%20for%20website.pdf) that was released

(http://i.imgur.com/4YQNdOL.jpg)L.jpg)

All great improvements (other than the Commerce Connector, which seems like a sprawl-inducing waste).  Switch out the Commerce Connector for US 31 freeway upgrade work, and we've got a deal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on April 05, 2013, 03:11:43 PM
^^ What he said!  :clap:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 05, 2013, 06:14:08 PM
I'll also concur, in fact, take out the Commerce Connector and finish I-69 from Martinsville to Indianapolis AND finish the US 31 corridor. An I-69 widening to Anderson or at least Exit 210 couldn't hurt either along with a widening of I-465 from the new interchange with I-69 up to I-70 to the east side, that should negate most of the need for the Commerce Connector, excpet for the apparent need for sprawl.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 05, 2013, 10:54:08 PM
How about "Where Bobby Knight chocked his players before it was cool"?

Wow, that one made me laugh!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 05, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
What is the Indy commerce connector?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on April 05, 2013, 11:55:00 PM
What is the Indy commerce connector?

A proposed second outer bypass of Indy, that could possibly carry I-69 if Segment 5 is blocked. Mostly, though, a sprawl inducer.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2013, 08:09:38 PM
What is the Indy commerce connector?

A proposed second outer bypass of Indy, that could possibly carry I-69 if Segment 5 is blocked. Mostly, though, a road that will generate and encourage economic development.

FIFY.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on April 06, 2013, 09:14:24 PM
Mostly, though, a road that will generate and encourage more money in offshore banks.

FIFY.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on April 06, 2013, 09:24:11 PM
What is the Indy commerce connector?

A proposed second outer bypass of Indy, that could possibly carry I-69 if Segment 5 is blocked. Mostly, though, a road that will generate and encourage economic development.

FIFY.

Yeah, right....for whom?  Cintra??

They need to finish I-69 to Indy and complete upgrading US 31 between Indy and South Bend before they even consider this outer loop boondoggle.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 07, 2013, 09:48:46 AM
Glad everyone sees this Indianapolis "Commerce Connector" for the POS it is. Folks think because we like roads we want everyone built. Nope we want good functional, useful and in my case quality roads built (my pet peeve is under building needed roads.........hear me Missouri and Illinois on the I-70 bridge). Does anyone have a guess on the cost of upgrading US-31 north of Indianapolis to a full freeway after the 3 big projects are done? Looks like a doable project aka I-49 upgrade in Missouri but more expensive with ROW needs and more interchanges.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on April 07, 2013, 09:54:41 AM
Sorry, but I still don't see the need for a full freeway-ization of US 31. Bypass places like Kokomo, yes, but the rest of the route is a perfectly good surface four-lane. This is in the same category of foolishness as the oft-mentioned desire to extend I-26 up US 23 into Virginia and Kentucky.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 07, 2013, 11:52:58 AM
I wouldn't mind freeway conversion of 31 as a long-term goal, but there's no hurry aside from bypassing urban areas.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 07, 2013, 04:49:09 PM
US 31 is pretty barren outside of those 3 sections that they're upgrading to freeway standards.  Those will be be the biggest problem spots in upgrading the whole thing by far (unless Carmel/Westfield sprawls north past the freeway segment).  I'm sure it'd still cost quite a bit to upgrade the rest, but per-mile it ought to be a lot cheaper than SR 37 to I-69 or upgrading US 41 from Evansville to Terre Haute.  I think people want it upgraded just so you can go 70 mph on the road and cut down on travel time to South Bend (which also happens to be a very boring drive).

Agree that the ICC is a boondoggle... I've mentioned that I could see a freeway from I-69 on the N side to I-70 on the E side as being useful, but that'd probably make the sprawl even worse on that side of the city.  I have no idea what the point even is if you're not going to toll it (not that you'd make money of the tolls anyway).

On I-65 & I-70, I'd start on widening the roads to 3 lanes around the metro areas where they're not already.  North of Louisville to Memphis, IN (this will be needed with I-265 being connected to the KY side with the new bridge), from Franklin up to Greenwood, and the Lafayette area on I-65, then Terre Haute on I-70 along with maybe the east side past I-465 in Indy.  The rest is generally fine except when semis pass each other (and there is a lot of truck traffic on I-65).

I know politically they'll want to spread the money around to get support, but hopefully INDOT continues to prioritize upgrading SR 37 to I-69.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on April 07, 2013, 10:02:29 PM
Here is the relevant slide from the budget summary (http://www.in.gov/legislative/senate_republicans/images/photogallery/Documents/Senate%20Budget%20slides%20for%202013-04-04%20Committee%20Presentation%20-%20UPDATED%20-%20for%20website.pdf) that was released

(http://i.imgur.com/4YQNdOL.jpg)L.jpg)

No mention of the Illiana?  I though the Commerce Connector was supposed to be the same type of private toll road facility as the Illiana.

Wonder if the six laning of I-70 listing means the truck only lanes for I-70 have died?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 07, 2013, 10:53:25 PM
Sorry, but I still don't see the need for a full freeway-ization of US 31. Bypass places like Kokomo, yes, but the rest of the route is a perfectly good surface four-lane. This is in the same category of foolishness as the oft-mentioned desire to extend I-26 up US 23 into Virginia and Kentucky.

It is not "perfectly good". While you as someone who lives in another state may not see the need for an upgrade, people from the area certainly do. These would be the primary reasons:

From the perspective of a commuter, it is pretty clear the current highway is dangerous as the highway is certainly congested both ways from Kokomo to Indy during the rush hours. Any accident causes long backups. I would be interested if people who live near South Bend or in western Michigan travelling south think that making US 31 a freeway through northern Indiana (esp. south of Peru) would be foolishness.

US 31 is pretty barren outside of those 3 sections that they're upgrading to freeway standards....   I think people want it upgraded just so you can go 70 mph on the road and cut down on travel time to South Bend (which also happens to be a very boring drive).

The Peru, Grisson ARB, Tipton (where the new Chrysler plant is being built), and from 236th Street south are not barren. I would say nothing south of US 24 is close to being desolate. North of US 24 is where lower traffic counts, lack of stoplights, and low population density make an upgrade a somewhat lower priority.

The flat, boring drive is why the serious accidents happen so frequently at the traffic lights.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 41 on April 08, 2013, 08:16:29 AM
There are road cnstruction signs in Bloomington ow on SR 37 for the I69 interchange. They also put TO I69 signs at the SR 37 / SR 45 interchange refering to the current end of 69 in Crane.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on April 08, 2013, 08:34:42 AM
US 31 is pretty barren outside of those 3 sections that they're upgrading to freeway standards.  Those will be be the biggest problem spots in upgrading the whole thing by far (unless Carmel/Westfield sprawls north past the freeway segment).  I'm sure it'd still cost quite a bit to upgrade the rest, but per-mile it ought to be a lot cheaper than SR 37 to I-69 or upgrading US 41 from Evansville to Terre Haute.  I think people want it upgraded just so you can go 70 mph on the road and cut down on travel time to South Bend (which also happens to be a very boring drive).

Agree that the ICC is a boondoggle... I've mentioned that I could see a freeway from I-69 on the N side to I-70 on the E side as being useful, but that'd probably make the sprawl even worse on that side of the city.  I have no idea what the point even is if you're not going to toll it (not that you'd make money of the tolls anyway).

On I-65 & I-70, I'd start on widening the roads to 3 lanes around the metro areas where they're not already.  North of Louisville to Memphis, IN (this will be needed with I-265 being connected to the KY side with the new bridge), from Franklin up to Greenwood, and the Lafayette area on I-65, then Terre Haute on I-70 along with maybe the east side past I-465 in Indy.  The rest is generally fine except when semis pass each other (and there is a lot of truck traffic on I-65).

I know politically they'll want to spread the money around to get support, but hopefully INDOT continues to prioritize upgrading SR 37 to I-69.

I drive between Louisville and South Bend 6-8 times a year, and I can tell you exactly what will improve safety and commute times the most.

I-65: Upgrading just Sellersburg-Memphis and Greenwood-Franklin will help very little.  The slowdowns on I-65 are due much more to trucks passing each other than from suburban commuter traffic, and those trucks are usually running the entire length and not just the suburban stretches.  Other than the Kokomo section of US 31, nothing would improve the trip time more than getting the 3rd lane all the way from Sellersburg-Greenwood.  I don't travel I-70, but I can only assume the same holds true there.

US 31:  The Tipton and southern Miami county sections are not nearly as "barren" as they used to be.  They could definitely use upgrading.  The section between Plymouth and Peru is stoplight-free and probably isn't as much of a priority, but again I would rate all of this a lower priority than the 3rd lane on I-65 (& I-70).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 08, 2013, 12:17:28 PM
The Kentuckian TIP has a six lane project from Sellersburg to Memphis sked in 2015 project. I believe this will happen as the TIP PDF is a few years old but they have pretty much followed it without many projects dropping off.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 08, 2013, 10:18:54 PM
There are road cnstruction signs in Bloomington ow on SR 37 for the I69 interchange. They also put TO I69 signs at the SR 37 / SR 45 interchange refering to the current end of 69 in Crane.

Really, that's news to me. I have heard that construction is starting in Bloomington and I hope to see it later this spring, but I didn't know if they were going to have an I-69 shields up there now. Are there I-69 shields along SR 45 too?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 08, 2013, 10:44:02 PM
So current phase is to finish it until sr 37 and past that there is no funding right?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on April 08, 2013, 11:05:32 PM
I drove from Indy to Evansville via 37, 45, and I 69 over Easter weekend. There are "TO 69" signs from the 37/45 interchange along every turn until you reach i69 in Crane
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 09, 2013, 06:51:21 AM
So current phase is to finish it until sr 37 and past that there is no funding right?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg205705#msg205705

INDOT wants to start construction on upgrading SR 37 within Bloomington to I-69 in 2014 and apparently has money earmarked for that from their normal budget/federal funding.  $77.7 million is what they're planning on spending on that between 2013-2015.

There is a meeting this Friday actually where the Bloomington/Monroe County MPO will vote on whether to approve it (that's the next step in the process as they can't use federal money if the MPO rejects it).  We should learn more in that meeting.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/apr/09/crews-finish-clearing-path-new-i-69-stretch/
Quote
BLOOMINGTON, Ind. — Workers and machines have finished clearing trees from the path of one of the final stretches of the Interstate 69 extension in Southern Indiana.

Crews worked long hours and weekends to clear the 27-mile swath from U.S. 231 in Greene County and Indiana 37 near Bloomington.

The job was completed by the March 31 deadline. The Herald-Times reports (http://bit.ly/10JwuNr ) tree cutting isn't allowed between April 1 and Nov. 15 under a federal-state deal designed to protect the endangered Indiana bat during roosting season.

The state also is restoring or preserving 4,100 acres of wetlands, streams and forests.

The felled trees still must be chipped and removed to make way for construction.

If nothing interferes with construction, I-69 from Evansville to Bloomington should be completed by the end of 2014.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 05:37:09 PM
http://www.urbanindy.com/2013/04/09/indiana-commerce-connector-back-in-play/

I wonder what number the ICC would carry if it were built
Title: Tree clearing completed for I-69 section 4
Post by: mukade on April 09, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Tree clearing completed for I-69 through Greene, Monroe counties (http://indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=69353&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=206) (Indiana Economic digest)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 09, 2013, 06:16:50 PM
http://www.urbanindy.com/2013/04/09/indiana-commerce-connector-back-in-play/

I wonder what number the ICC would carry if it were built
My choice would be 666 because it is the devil that will steal badly needed funds from other state projects.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 09, 2013, 06:19:17 PM
Tree clearing completed for I-69 through Greene, Monroe counties (http://indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=69353&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=206) (Indiana Economic digest)
States love their data so I know they have a estimate of the board feet cut up would love to have that number. New to Indiana in the last 3 years so a bit unfamiliar with state road ops. So who gets the money from the cut up timber?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 09, 2013, 07:21:03 PM
I was under the impression that the commerce connector would be I-69, leaving the stretch from Anderson southward to be a spur route, but that was only an impression. I viewed the commerce connector as a way of getting out of building Section 6 of I-69.

Interesting for me, given the negative reaction to the highway on THIS board and the negative reaction from the anti-highway/pro-transit crowd elsewhere, this appears to be a project that multiple groups on usually different sides of the whole "highway debate" can come together on. It says something when the people (and granted this may not be speaking for everyone out there) here say that the ICC is a bad idea, and we generally like roads.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 09, 2013, 07:53:55 PM
Also, there's already a road called ICC.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 09, 2013, 08:30:47 PM
I was under the impression that the commerce connector would be I-69, leaving the stretch from Anderson southward to be a spur route, but that was only an impression. I viewed the commerce connector as a way of getting out of building Section 6 of I-69.

I have not seen anything official that it could be I-69, but there was speculation that it could be because it solved some of the issues around rebuilding SR 37 as it approaches I-465.

Interesting for me, given the negative reaction to the highway on THIS board and the negative reaction from the anti-highway/pro-transit crowd elsewhere, this appears to be a project that multiple groups on usually different sides of the whole "highway debate" can come together on. It says something when the people (and granted this may not be speaking for everyone out there) here say that the ICC is a bad idea, and we generally like roads.

I am against the ICC purely on the basis that other road projects should have a higher priority including US 31. At some point, it may make sense, but certainly not now.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 09:40:35 PM
Does anyone think this ICC would be supported by more people in the area if it were simply a divided highway with at grade intersections?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on April 09, 2013, 11:06:57 PM
Does anyone think this ICC would be supported by more people in the area if it were simply a divided highway with at grade intersections?
No. It just doesn't make sense to build anything there. Kinda like most of the "freeways" in West Virginia (Corridor H, etc.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: trafficsignal on April 10, 2013, 07:12:16 AM
Does anyone think this ICC would be supported by more people in the area if it were simply a divided highway with at grade intersections?

I think its too far out to be of any real use regionally.  Now, if they would use the proposed money to support the local/regional 4-lane boulevard "ring" plan (upgrade Mt. Comfort + whatever Johnson Co. is thinking about - Worthsville Rd.? - to match Ronald Reagan & 146th St.), I could see that having some traction since its in more of a developed / developing area.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on April 10, 2013, 07:53:22 AM
I was under the impression that the commerce connector would be I-69, leaving the stretch from Anderson southward to be a spur route, but that was only an impression. I viewed the commerce connector as a way of getting out of building Section 6 of I-69.

Interesting for me, given the negative reaction to the highway on THIS board and the negative reaction from the anti-highway/pro-transit crowd elsewhere, this appears to be a project that multiple groups on usually different sides of the whole "highway debate" can come together on. It says something when the people (and granted this may not be speaking for everyone out there) here say that the ICC is a bad idea, and we generally like roads.

Well, some of the local opposition to ICC is the typical knee-jerk reaction from people who are against the government spending any money on anything.  Then on top of that I think a lot of it is that most people don't see it as a road they would use.

Where I don't see the proponents doing a good job of selling the ICC is that they aren't emphasizing how much thru traffic (especially truck traffic) it will clear off the current choke points in Marion/Hamilton counties which will make a lot of people's commutes better even if they aren't using the road.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 10, 2013, 08:44:08 AM
It's my understanding that the Indiana Commerce Connector is meant to serve the truck traffic it will create.  I'm imagining development like what's along Alum Creek Dr between I-270 and Rickenbacker Int'l Airport in Columbus, but on a much larger scale.

I'm not really opposed to the road or the development.  But the road does not serve the public aside from the traffic needs of the development it will enable; therefore I consider the road to be part of the development.  Thus, construction of the Indiana Commerce Connector should be funded entirely by the private interests that intend to develop the land there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on April 10, 2013, 11:37:00 AM
http://www.urbanindy.com/2013/04/09/indiana-commerce-connector-back-in-play/

I wonder what number the ICC would carry if it were built
MD 200

Explanation:
Also, there's already a road called ICC.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 10, 2013, 05:42:21 PM
Where I don't see the proponents doing a good job of selling the ICC is that they aren't emphasizing how much thru traffic (especially truck traffic) it will clear off the current choke points in Marion/Hamilton counties which will make a lot of people's commutes better even if they aren't using the road.

Operation Indy Commute is supposed to be taking care of the choke points, or at least two of them. Widening I-65 and I-70 to six lanes across the state help too in relieving congestion caused by trucks and I-465 is already at least six lanes around the city, forming a suitable bypass. That said, if I-465 were widened to eight lanes at least for the remainder of its loop (mainly the north and south sides) and interchanges improved to improve traffic flow (such as the I-65 south side and I-69 north side interchanges) then the ability to get around the city will improve as well. And with any improved work on I-465 you won't have to worry about cutting through anyone's property. And even if it's a time factor, traveling through the city or at least on I-465 has to be a quicker option a good 20 or so hours each day.

I'm with mukade on this one, maybe in the future this highway may be a good idea, but not now. Improvments to our current interstate system and additions of critical missing links (I-69 and US 31) will be much better. One last thing to note and I think it's been mentioned before, even on this thread, the senator proposing this is from Noblesville, which apparently doesn't need a beltway. All of these county seats apparently must have two freeways connecting them, but Noblesville is just fine with a four-lane SR 37 (I don't count I-69 in the southeastern part of the city?)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 10, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
I don't like the ICC idea either.  I have no idea why INDOT refuses to fix the I-69 interchange, I know they have plans to do it, but this should have been done 5 years a go or more.  It is (in my opinion) the most frustrating and in a lot of ways dangerous ( the 2 loop ramps causing weaving) interchange I've driven in Indy, especially during rush hour.  They should have rebuilt that entire interchange before they did the improvements they are doing at SR 37.  The bypass does make a lot of sense to me on the right side of the city, it would at least in theory lower congestion on 69 in the Fishers area. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on April 10, 2013, 09:51:29 PM
Fictional Highways idea: Develop a route to link the Indiana ICC to the Maryland one. It must stay below I-70 at all times :D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: rte66man on April 10, 2013, 10:09:44 PM
I drove from Indy to Evansville via 37, 45, and I 69 over Easter weekend. There are "TO 69" signs from the 37/45 interchange along every turn until you reach i69 in Crane

Like this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/8638283737/in/set-72157633213641901/

rte66man
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on April 11, 2013, 01:20:17 AM
I drove from Indy to Evansville via 37, 45, and I 69 over Easter weekend. There are "TO 69" signs from the 37/45 interchange along every turn until you reach i69 in Crane

Like this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/8638283737/in/set-72157633213641901/

rte66man

Good to see I-69 signs in Bloomington!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 11, 2013, 06:56:50 AM
The Bloomington Herald Times has a story today (behind a paywall) about how the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce took MPO members up in a helicopter to tour I-69 construction ahead of the big meeting on Friday.  I'll just quote the part about the Bloomington mayor, since his opinion is representative of a few of the people on the board they quote.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2013/04/11/news.birds-eye-view-of-i-69-offered-to-local-officials.sto

Quote
Bloomington’s mayor hadn’t seen the Section 4 construction from the air before Wednesday.
 
“The perspective I take away from it is, the damage is done,” Kruzan said. “Now it’s a matter of Bloomington and Monroe County not stopping a highway that’s already here but leveraging all we can from the state in terms of funding and aesthetics.”
 
He wasn’t ready to predict Friday’s vote, however. What committee members want from the state department of transportation will play a big part, he predicted.
 
“It comes down to a commitment from INDOT about whether commitments will be coming or whether it’s a commitment itself,” he said.
 

Essentially, there's a block on the MPO board who want assurances from INDOT that they will pay for part of the local road upgrades in Bloomington that are needed to accommodate I-69.  17th street (between Crsecent Road and Monroe Street and Sample Road (between Old 37 and Bottom Road) are both mentioned, as well as a new road between Whitetail Crossing and Industrial drive.

If the no votes win, then INDOT can't use federal money to upgrade SR 37 to I-69 through Bloomington
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 11, 2013, 08:04:38 AM
Essentially, there's a block on the MPO board who want assurances from INDOT that they will pay for part of the local road upgrades in Bloomington that are needed to accommodate I-69.  17th street (between Crsecent Road and Monroe Street and Sample Road (between Old 37 and Bottom Road) are both mentioned, as well as a new road between Whitetail Crossing and Industrial drive.

If the no votes win, then INDOT can't use federal money to upgrade SR 37 to I-69 through Bloomington

And hopefully the MPO won't go down the path where INDOT will have to threaten to pull all federal funds again. I can't think of many cases where the local roads have not been improved by INDOT near interchanges so i guess it is a question of whether what is proposed will be enough. If you look at the US 31 projects (Hamilton County, Kokomo, and South Bend) and I-465 west leg as current project examples which go through cities, I think INDOT will be willing to offer a reasonable package for local road improvements near I-69 in Bloomington. The MPO may not agree, of course.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: codyg1985 on April 11, 2013, 08:18:44 AM
I drove from Indy to Evansville via 37, 45, and I 69 over Easter weekend. There are "TO 69" signs from the 37/45 interchange along every turn until you reach i69 in Crane

Like this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/8638283737/in/set-72157633213641901/

rte66man

Nice pictures! Nice to see rapid progress along I-69 in Indiana and construction of I-269 around Memphis.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: truejd on April 11, 2013, 09:14:42 AM
Nice pics!  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 11, 2013, 12:19:54 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/8639381882/in/set-72157633213641901/
That's an interesting sign, I've never seen one that posts the direction change in that way.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 11, 2013, 12:37:45 PM
Quote
“It comes down to a commitment from INDOT about whether commitments will be coming or whether it’s a commitment itself,” he said.

What?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on April 11, 2013, 10:29:41 PM
Quote
“It comes down to a commitment from INDOT about whether commitments will be coming or whether it’s a commitment itself,” he said.

What?
Politics.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 12, 2013, 04:43:32 PM

Per a Bloomington Herald Times reporter on twitter, the Bloomington/Monroe County MPO approved section 5 of I-69 on an 8-4 vote.  Bloomington Mayor Mark Kruzan voted yes, so that's one of the flips from the 2012 vote on section 4.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 13, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
It appears that the last Section 4 segment that was recently let is now scheduled to open in 2015 to save money:

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=605292

Quote
Work is now underway on the final stretch of new construction for the southern extension of Interstate 69 in Indiana.
The Indiana Department of Transportation awarded construction contracts to a St. Louis firm to build the remaining section of new highway from Crane to Bloomington.
$109.6 million will be spent on design and construction of the new stretch of highway. The proposal will save $45 million in the construction of a challenging three-mile section in southeastern Greene County by having it open to traffic in 2015. The construction contract offers incentives of $30,000 for each day that contractors open the interstate earlier than anticipated.

https://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/14311.pdf

Some interesting notes from the MPO Meeting agenda from yesterday:
On the cost of upgrading SR 37 to I-69 through Bloomington:
Quote
The project consists of an upgrade of existing State Route 37 to a fully access-controlled interstate highway.
The portion of Section 5 that is within the MPA has a total project cost of $77,700,000 spanning fiscal years
2013 through 2015. INDOT estimates that an additional $82,900,000 will be needed in later fiscal years to
finish construction on this portion of Section 5. The entirety of Section 5 from State Route 39 near Martinsville
to Victor Pike is estimated to cost a total of $394,100,000.

- The preliminary 2014-2017 TIP has $20 million dollars budgeted in both 2016 & 2017 on I-69 work in Bloomington.

- INDOT is targeting June of this year for completition of the FEIS & Record of Decision on Section 5

So the next thing to watch for would be the completition of the Indiana state budget coming up, which should happen in the next couple weeks.  It's interesting that the INDOT estimate provided in March to the MPO is about $90 million higher than what the Indiana State Senate had in its presentation for the cost of completing Section 5.

The MPO's boundary ends at Kinser Pike, so we don't know at this time if INDOT has any additional Section 5 construction past that area that they plan to start on in the next few years.  Obviously a lot of that is going to depend on what the state transportation budget is.
Title: 27 Miles Underway on I-69 from Crane to Bloomington
Post by: mukade on April 13, 2013, 10:10:00 AM
The full INDOT press release is here (http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=94994&information_id=179104&type=&syndicate=syndicate).

This press release includes some additional information on the project. As section 4 completion is now 2015, perhaps that will coincide with the completion of the southern part of section 5 through Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 13, 2013, 01:14:18 PM
Hopefully they'll have the most critical upgrades done by the time section 4 opens, but even with unlimited money they're not going to be able to get everything completed by that time because of the way construction has to be sequenced. 

It's an existing, busy stretch of road and traffic would be too disrupted in Bloomington if they did everything at once.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 13, 2013, 01:20:51 PM
Disrupt the traffic all you want in Bloomington. Tom Crean will raise a banner celebrating Bloomington for having the worst traffic in America.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 13, 2013, 02:30:21 PM
Hopefully they'll have the most critical upgrades done by the time section 4 opens, but even with unlimited money they're not going to be able to get everything completed by that time because of the way construction has to be sequenced. 

It's an existing, busy stretch of road and traffic would be too disrupted in Bloomington if they did everything at once.

Just like any other project, access needs to be maintained, but the "Vernal Pike Overpass" (17th St.), "Fullerton Pike Interchange", and "Rockport Road Overpass(es)" are the key parts to get the stoplights out of there. They could add a temporary stoplight at That Road, if necessary, before it gets closed like was done at US 31 at 169th Street. The existing interchange upgrades (including Tapp Rd. construction) can happen anytime afterward as far as I am concerned. I think the first traffic light would then be at Burton Lane in Martinsville.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on April 13, 2013, 07:25:46 PM
Disrupt the traffic all you want in Bloomington. Tom Crean will raise a banner celebrating Bloomington for having the worst traffic in America.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Revive 755 on April 13, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
They could add a temporary stoplight at That Road, if necessary, before it gets closed like was done at US 31 at 169th Street.

There's a road that needs to be renamed or a given a route number.  I can see it now:

Passenger:  Turn right on That Road.

(Driver turns right at first cross road)

Passenger:  You made a wrong turn.  You were supposed to turn on That Road, not this road.

Driver:  I did turn on that road.
. . .
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 14, 2013, 12:08:03 AM
They could add a temporary stoplight at That Road, if necessary, before it gets closed like was done at US 31 at 169th Street.

There's a road that needs to be renamed or a given a route number.  I can see it now:

Passenger:  Turn right on That Road.

(Driver turns right at first cross road)

Passenger:  You made a wrong turn.  You were supposed to turn on That Road, not this road.

Driver:  I did turn on that road.
. . .
:-D :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on April 14, 2013, 07:14:25 AM
They could add a temporary stoplight at That Road, if necessary, before it gets closed like was done at US 31 at 169th Street.

There's a road that needs to be renamed or a given a route number.  I can see it now:

Passenger:  Turn right on That Road.

(Driver turns right at first cross road)

Passenger:  You made a wrong turn.  You were supposed to turn on That Road, not this road.

Driver:  I did turn on that road.
. . .
I was 50/50 on whether "That Road" was a euphemism for some notorious road whose name I'm supposed to inherently know without being from the area, or an actual road name. I'm 50/50 on whether I'm happier knowing I wasn't missing anything, or sadder knowing that That (that that that that that?) is the real name.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on April 14, 2013, 10:09:44 AM
Perhaps "That Road" is the official name, but maybe it's a shorter version of the old name: "That Road Which Shall Not Be Named Memorial Parkway".  The shortening was both to save money on road signs, and so people would stop asking about a chapter in the town's history they'd rather forget.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 14, 2013, 11:18:54 AM
Hopefully they'll have the most critical upgrades done by the time section 4 opens, but even with unlimited money they're not going to be able to get everything completed by that time because of the way construction has to be sequenced. 

It's an existing, busy stretch of road and traffic would be too disrupted in Bloomington if they did everything at once.

Just like any other project, access needs to be maintained, but the "Vernal Pike Overpass" (17th St.), "Fullerton Pike Interchange", and "Rockport Road Overpass(es)" are the key parts to get the stoplights out of there. They could add a temporary stoplight at That Road, if necessary, before it gets closed like was done at US 31 at 169th Street. The existing interchange upgrades (including Tapp Rd. construction) can happen anytime afterward as far as I am concerned. I think the first traffic light would then be at Burton Lane in Martinsville.

Tapp Road also has a stoplight, so that SR 45 (2nd Street)/Tapp Road split diamond has to be completed to make the whole road to Martinsville stoplight free.  The construction sequencing (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeII/S5_Appendix_FF.pdf) says that project "cannot" be done at the same time as the Fullerton segment (as opposed to "should not" for some of the other sequencing).

The individual segments also have their own sequencing in some cases... for instance the Fullerton segment says that interchange should be completed, and then they can redo the Fullerton/Rockport interchange, build the Rockport overpass, and close off That Road.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 14, 2013, 12:29:47 PM
At least That Road isn't like Tapp Road, which becomes Country Club Road, Winslow Road AND Rogers Road along the same stretch of road in the span of about three miles. Stay on the road and turn 90 degrees toward the north and it becomes Smith Road. Five names without turning off the same road all while in Bloomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 14, 2013, 01:56:45 PM
The existing interchange upgrades (including Tapp Rd. construction) can happen anytime afterward as far as I am concerned.

The construction sequencing (http://www.i69indyevn.org//wp-content/uploads/DEIS_Sec5/VolumeII/S5_Appendix_FF.pdf) says that project "cannot" be done at the same time as the Fullerton segment (as opposed to "should not" for some of the other sequencing).
 

I think that was the point. The order can be changed (look at the INDOT lettings and see how fluid they are), and as noted, the Tapp Road interchange project is the SR 45 interchange project. Whenever the Tapp Road overpass is built, the stoplight will be removed.

The other thing is that document was published when the target completion date for section 4 was 2014. Now it is officially 2015 so they might be able to remove all stoplights in Monroe County when section 4 opens. It all depends on whether or not they kick off section 5 work next spring.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on April 14, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
At least That Road isn't like Tapp Road, which becomes Country Club Road and Winslow Road along the same stretch of road in the span of about three miles. Stay on the road and turn 90 degrees toward the north and it becomes Smith Road. Four names without turning off the same road all while in Bloomington.

Another road that does that in Bloomington is SR 48, I still can't figure out what the official name of the road is, obviously it's SR 48, but the local road is signed with 2 names Whitehall Pike and 3rd street.  Can you even do that?  It must be confusing to people around there. Look at the intersection of Curry Pike and SR 48 on street view to see what I mean.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 14, 2013, 06:26:44 PM
Though it appears to have changed, at least according to both Google and my Monroe County highway map the name Whitehall Pike applied to the road to the west of SR 37 (or Curry Pike) and 3rd Street applied to the east. At least in the past, both SR 48 and Whitehall Pike were used interchangeably (similar to SR 46 and 3rd Street on the east side of town) but that name may have very well been dropped, or at least to outside of Bloomington. The highway does lead to the town of Whitehall, hence the name. Of course, with Section 5 work starting soon I see most of the signage around SR 37 in Bloomington changing, so perhaps an updated version of the street names will be put up to make it clear.

Another interesting one is the SR 45 interchange, signed as 2nd Street and Bloomfield Road. Unlike the SR 48 example, the road name on both sides of the interchange is Bloomfield Road and the 2nd Street designation doesn't begin until east of Adams Street about a mile into town east of SR 37. By all accounts, that one should just be Bloomfield Road.

I was down in Bloomington today, checking out the construction around SR 37 and the new I-69 shields and I went west on Tapp Road to what I thought was Curry Pike, nope it was Leonard Springs Road, which follows the path of a backwards L from SR 45 east to Fullerton Pike and then back north toward SR 45, where it then becomes Curry Pike. Oh, and did I mention that W Leonard Springs Road intersects with S Leonard Springs Road in the same area, but both are different roads. I don't think I'll ever fully understand the road names in B-Town no matter how many times I go there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 14, 2013, 08:01:08 PM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on April 14, 2013, 08:10:46 PM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mgk920 on April 15, 2013, 11:39:58 AM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.

Naaaaah, it would be in da YooPee of Michigan!

 :nod:

Mike
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Rick Powell on April 15, 2013, 11:52:29 AM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.

Naaaaah, it would be in da YooPee of Michigan!

 :nod:

Mike

In der UP, wouldn't it be Dat Der Road?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Anthony_JK on April 15, 2013, 02:13:07 PM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.

No...in NOLA, it would be Who Dat Road. In Lafayette, though, it would probably be Dat Road. :biggrin: :biggrin: :pan:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: KEVIN_224 on April 15, 2013, 02:19:54 PM
And who engineered that road being built? Abbott and Costello? :)

(Who's on First got there by That Road? It doesn't make sense to me either. Oh well!)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Brandon on April 15, 2013, 02:38:09 PM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.

Or if it were in Cicero.  :spin:
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Grzrd on April 15, 2013, 03:28:47 PM
No...in NOLA, it would be Who Dat Road.

But on the West Bank it would probably be Where Yat Road .......
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 15, 2013, 06:24:49 PM
One of my colleagues who is in Ireland told me last year that on his next trip to Indiana, he wants to see That Road and Sherrill's Eat Here and Get Gas (yes, believe it or not, we really did have that conversation). So don't let anyone fool you when they say that Indiana doesn't have world class destinations.

Personally, I like the name of the town between Bloomington and Columbus called Gnaw Bone.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 15, 2013, 09:21:45 PM
I-69 is shown in the 2014 Rand McNally Road Atlas. I documented the Indiana changes I found here (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9268.msg215848#msg215848).
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: US 41 on April 16, 2013, 11:49:23 AM
That Road is far from the most confusing street name in Bloomington, apparently.

If That road was in New Orleans, it would be Dat Road.


Lol. I travel on That Road every week when I visit my grandparents in Blomington.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on April 23, 2013, 07:16:01 PM
I-69 is shown in the 2014 Rand McNally Road Atlas. I documented the Indiana changes I found here (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9268.msg215848#msg215848).

In similar news, the new AAA map for Indiana does now mark I-69 in SW Indiana, but without any exit numbers AND with two additional exits in Pike County (one at SR 356 and the other south of Petersburg, the two dropped interchanges I believe.) Also the new exit numbers for I-69 north of Indy are shown. And while it's not noteworthy here, the entire SR 25 corridor from Lafayette to Logansport is now marked, as a two-lane highway. Score one for Rand McNally?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on April 25, 2013, 09:01:17 PM
Quote
(the budget compromise) also increases spending on state and local roads by $400 million and invests another $400 million for major highway expansions over the biennium

Maybe that $400M will fund section 5.

UPDATE: Budget includes tax cut, more school and road funds (http://www.ibj.com/budget-deal-calls-for-5-percent-income-tax-cut/PARAMS/article/40986) (IBJ)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on April 26, 2013, 10:58:34 AM
Quote
(the budget compromise) also increases spending on state and local roads by $400 million and invests another $400 million for major highway expansions over the biennium

Maybe that $400M will fund section 5.

UPDATE: Budget includes tax cut, more school and road funds (http://www.ibj.com/budget-deal-calls-for-5-percent-income-tax-cut/PARAMS/article/40986) (IBJ)

That's going to the "Major Moves 2020" fund, but yes, a good portion of it will go towards I-69

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/19713020-537/lawmakers-how-about-5-cut-pence-ill-take-it.html

Quote
In transportation, 1 percent of current sales tax will be reallocated to the motor vehicle highway fund, and state police and BMV funding will come through the state general fund.

Funds for local roads will be 47 percent from the motor vehicle highway fund, totaling about $200 million over two years, and will not be tied to whether a county passes a wheel tax. The remaining 5 percent will go to state highway projects.
 
$200 million over two years will be placed into a new Major Moves fund to pay for future projects such as completing Interstate 69 and expanding Interstate 65 and Interstate 70.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on April 26, 2013, 01:58:51 PM
Sounds like a decent plan to fund major projects without too much bond debt.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 05, 2013, 07:19:58 AM
http://washtimesherald.com/local/x2002139670/Lights-now-showing-near-I-69

Washington gets its lights at their exit this week

Quote
WASHINGTON — Those travelling on U.S. Route 50 near the Interstate 69 intersection will soon notice some big changes.
 
New traffic signals will soon be put to work near the off and on ramps to I-69. According to a press release by the Indiana Department of Transportation, crews have been installing the infrastructure and the poles for the new signals over the last week. The signals `are scheduled to go into effect after morning rush hour on Tuesday.
 
As traffic enters and exits I-69, pavement sensors will activiate the signals. There will be overhead lighting installed at the intersection of each ramp as well.
 
“As I-69 was opening, I learned that illumination at the access ramps was not part of the original construction,” said Washington Mayor Joe Wellman.
 
INDOT is encouraging all drivers to pay special attention to the new signals and other motorists as they become familiar with the new traffic patterns.
 
“Last November my office issued a request to INDOT asking them to review how dark it is at night as drivers go through the intersections. They (INDOT) agreed and made the decision to add both lights and traffic signals to the area. We appreciate their cooperation on this and believe the improvements will enhance safety.”
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 12, 2013, 10:59:04 AM
http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=69765

Quote
State OKs private financing for I-69 between Bloomington and Martinsville
 
Kathleen McLaughlin, Indianapolis Business Journal

The Indiana Department of Transportation will press ahead with a request for proposals on Interstate 69 from Bloomington to Martinsville, in hopes that a public-private partnership will stretch limited state funds.

Language in the recently adopted state budget allows the Indiana Finance Authority to enter public-private partnerships for non-tolled freeway projects, which would include the final stages of I-69.

INDOT wants to involve the finance authority because its public-private partnership on the Ohio River bridges project helped knock design and construction costs from an estimated $988 million to $763 million, and the completion date moved from June 2017 to October 2016.

“The state and private sector was interested in repeating the success of the Ohio River bridges procurement as much as possible,” INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield said. Indiana’s portion of the joint project with Kentucky is to build the East End Crossing, connecting Interstate 265 in Indiana and Louisville.

Interstate 69 would be Indiana’s first public-private partnership on a highway project that didn’t involve toll money. Seventeen firms, including East End Crossing contractor Walsh Construction, expressed an interest last year in designing, building and financing Section 5. The Indiana Finance Authority will likely issue a request for qualifications to narrow the field in the next month, Wingfield said.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on May 12, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
Is there any mention of the other segment at the original southern terminus at I-465 NE of Indy?  Like maybe "TO I-65" signs at Exit 0?

Also, has the exit numbers been changed from I-465 and north to reflect its change to avoid duplication yet?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: hbelkins on May 12, 2013, 09:06:02 PM
Is there any mention of the other segment at the original southern terminus at I-465 NE of Indy?  Like maybe "TO I-65" signs at Exit 0?

Also, has the exit numbers been changed from I-465 and north to reflect its change to avoid duplication yet?

I was just through there last week, and while I cannot address any signage as you go south on I-69, I can report that an orange construction sign on the inner loop of I-465 as you approach I-69 has had the new exit numbers (starting at 200) pasted on top of the old sign.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on May 13, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
Renumbering of I-69 in Northern Indiana happened well before the southern section opened. It was discussed at length way upthread. If you're curious look about here: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg174008#msg174008 (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg174008#msg174008)

I think it was genius to just add 200 to the existing mileage. The mileage isn't exact by any reasonable route for the future finished freeway, but it's close. The advantages are not necessarily having to renumber again, and convenience in the conversion for those relying in old mapping. Only the most anal road geeks would care about a slight discrepancy.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 22, 2013, 04:52:03 PM
Several new stories today on Section 5... sounds like they're going ahead with a public/private partnership for Phase 5 (private company will get paid for 35 years and will design, build, finance, operate and maintain the road).  We're going to know more on the potential bidders by July 30. The latest state budget had language letting INDOT do this, provided it isn't a toll road.  Gov. Pence is fully committed to completing the road.  Also the INDOT press release says Section 4 is now scheduled to open in phases in 2014 & 2015.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130522/NEWS05/305220056/Indiana-Gov-Mike-Pence-says-he-committed-finishing-69-into-Indianapolis-toll-free?nclick_check=1

Quote
Gov. Mike Pence said today Indiana must complete I-69 into Marion County, arguing that it will cement this state’s identity as the “Crossroads of America.”

And, he told reporters later, it will be done without imposing tolls.

“I want to be clear today. I am firmly committed to completing I-69 from Evansville to Indianapolis,” Pence said to applause from a couple hundred contractors, designers and financial forms who were at an Indiana Government Center South forum on how to take part in the building of the next section of I-69 to be built.

That’s a 21-mile section to be built from Bloomington to Martinsville.

But Pence said the job won’t be done until the new interstate stretch is attached to I-465 in Marion County, allowing I-69 to finally stretch from Evansville in the south to the Michigan border north of Fort Wayne. While I-69 has long connected Indianapolis to northeastern Indiana, the southern leg remained just a dream until former Gov. Mitch Daniels launched it in his administration.

“The message here today is we’re going to finish what we started,” Pence told reporters. “And we’re going to use all the resources that we have at our disposal to do that in a way that serves the interests of taxpayers and is efficient and effective and under budget.”

Pence said there are no plans for tolls on the highway. “It’s certainly not in our proposal or our thinking at this time... and we’re not advocating for that.”

He said completing I-69 is a higher priority to him than other transportation projects, including widening I-70 and building the so-called “commerce connector” south of Marion County.

“My philosophy of roads is simply this,” Pence said. “You have three priorities when it comes to infrastructure. Number one, you take care of what you got. Number two, you finish what you started. And number three, you plan for the future.”

Will Wingfield, a spokesman for the Indiana Department of Transportation, said the Bloomington to Martinsville section is estimated to cost $394 million, with no estimate yet for the final leg into Marion County.

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=100996&information_id=181942&type=&syndicate=syndicate

Quote
Private Firms Ready to Deliver I-69 Section 5
 
IFA, INDOT Outline P3 Delivery Model
 
 
 
INDIANAPOLIS – Governor Mike Pence today spoke before an audience of more than 200 contractors, designers and financial firms ready to deliver I-69 Section 5 from Bloomington to Martinsville.

 
 
The Indiana Finance Authority (IFA) and Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) hosted an Industry Forum to provide more information about procurement of a public-private partnership (P3) to design, build, finance, operate and maintain I-69 Section 5. The IFA, in coordination with INDOT, will release a Request for Qualifications later this week.
 
 
 
The IFA and INDOT plan to replicate the success of the East End Crossing of the Ohio River Bridges Project by using an availability payment model to deliver I-69 Section 5. The project will not involve tolling, but instead will leverage INDOT’s funding appropriations to attract low-cost private sector finance. Other benefits of the P3 procurement include incentives for the private sector to lower construction costs and accelerate completion of the project.
 
 
 
Indiana is a national leader in leveraging private capital to deliver needed transportation projects sooner, and at the lowest possible cost to taxpayers. The new Interstate 69 between Evansville and Indianapolis is widely regarded as a key component to the future economic vitality of southwestern Indiana, and will connect an entire region with improved access to jobs, education and healthcare. The 142-mile I-69 corridor was divided into six independent sections with the Tier 1 Final Environmental Impact Study, which was approved by the Federal Highway Administration in March 2004.
 
 
 
The first 67 miles opened for business in November 2012 under budget and years ahead of schedule, and now saves motorists more than 30 minutes in travel time between Evansville and Crane. Construction is underway on all 27 miles of I-69 Section 4 between Crane and Bloomington, which is expected to open to traffic in phases during late 2014 and 2015.
 
I-69 Section 5 involves upgrading 21 miles of existing State Road 37 to interstate standards, including new interchanges and overpasses. The project will improve traffic safety, reduce existing and forecasted congestion and support economic development.

http://www.14news.com/story/22396840/indiana-presses-ahead-with-i-69s-next-section

Quote
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Indiana is pressing ahead with its search for a private company to finance and build a 21-mile section of the Interstate 69 extension that will eventually run from Evansville to Indianapolis.

State officials said Wednesday they'll ask interested companies to demonstrate they're capable of handling the project. A short list of qualified bidders would be released July 30.

The first half of the 142-mile highway opened last year and was built by contractors with state funding.

But the company that will build the 21-mile Bloomington-to-Martinsville segment by upgrading existing State Road 37 will sign a public-private deal under which it will arrange its own financing to design and build that stretch. Indiana would make payments to that firm for 35 years after the highway's completion.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 22, 2013, 06:57:23 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Indiana-presses-ahead-with-I-69-s-next-section-4539902.php

The AP has another story with a bit more detail up now

So part of Section 4 opening in late 2014, rest in late 2015.  I would guess that'd have to be segments going south from Bloomington as I believe Contract 2 is the one that got off to a late start (and won't be done until 2015).

List of qualified bidders for Section 5 to be announced July 30, proposals due by Jan 2014, state announces preferred contractor in Feb 2014, deal could be done by May 2014.  Hopefully INDOT doesn't include some of the Bloomington projects (Vernal Pike) in the P3, because they'll have trouble getting construction going in 2014 in Bloomington as planned if it takes until next May to get the P3 up and running.  That group would still have to subcontract out construction bids, etc which will take a few months I would think.

Quote
The I-69 extension's first 67 miles between Evansville and the Crane area opened in November. A 27-mile stretch that will run from Crane to Bloomington is under construction in Greene and Monroe counties.
 
That segment is expected to be completed by late 2015, with its first portions opening in late 2014, said Jim Stark, INDOT's deputy commissioner for planning and project management.
 
While the contractors that built or are building I-69's first 94 miles received state funding for their work, the company that will build the Bloomington-to-Martinsville segment will sign a public-private deal under which it will arrange its own financing to design and build that stretch. The project's estimated construction costs range from $350 million to $500 million.
 
Indiana would make "milestone" payments to that company during the segment's construction and then quarterly payments for 35 years after its completion as the company maintains and operates the stretch, said Kendra York, Indiana's public finance director.
Indiana devoted about $700 million to I-69 from the $3.8 billion it collected by leasing the Indiana Toll Road to a private operator under former Gov. Mitch Daniels. But that money has already been spent or allocated, leaving the state to find a way to pay for the remainder of the highway.
 
For the Bloomington-to-Martinsville segment, Indiana has turned to the same public-private arrangement it reached last year with a group chosen to build a new $763 million Ohio River bridge between Indiana and Kentucky.
 
Eighteen companies responded to the state's request in December for parties interested in tackling the Bloomington-to-Martinsville project.
 
Stark said a short list of qualified bidders for the highway segment will be released July 30 and the state will ask them in October to submit their proposals by January 2014. The state's announcement of its preferred contractor for the job will be announced next February, he said.
 
The Indiana Finance Authority would then have to approve that deal, which could be completed by next May, Stark said.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on May 23, 2013, 07:10:41 AM
Probably most interesting piece of news is what Pence said about Perry Twp. in Marion County (section 6) where that has been a lot of opposition to I-69. He said:

Quote
The plan now is to follow State Route 37, but many Perry Township residents feel that would tear up their neighborhoods too much and would prefer a shift to the west.

Pence said he'll listen to them.

"We're really open to a lot of discussion on all of that in terms of where that route would be most effective," he said. "There's other factors that ought to be considered in terms of long-range planning for Indiana...

Pence might consider alternatives for finishing northern leg of I-69 in Marion County (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/pence-may-consider-other-alternatives-for-finishing-northern-leg-of-i-69-in-marion-county) (WRTV- channel 6)

This sort of uncertainty in the exact routing is what made me think the adding of 200 to the mile markers north of Indy was actually the best way.

If I-69 hits I-70 near the Indianapolis Airport, it could go through downtown, go up the west leg and north leg of I-465, or the current plan using the south and east legs.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on May 23, 2013, 08:16:28 AM
Exactly what I was thinking, that way I-69 will finally be able to go through downtown (if it follows the I-70 route.) It may me think of possibly seeing references to Fort Wayne and Evansville at the North and South Split interchanges if such a route were followed and I-70 would only need to be widened a little bit to the southwest of Plainfield (which would probably be done anyway given the future plans for I-70 across the state.)

Living in Perry Township (toward the east around I-65) I am a little dismayed about this whole "tearing up neighborhoods" argument. SR 37 isn't exactly a unifying force across the western part of the township right now and personally feels like a barrier anyway. I won't argue that widening and conversion into an interstate might knock out a few houses near the overpasses and interchanges, but it's not like they'll be bulldozing thorugh entire subdivisions. Well, it's not like anyone cares about those in northern Morgan County who may feel the impact of a new terrain route north to I-70.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on May 23, 2013, 10:00:43 AM
Exactly what I was thinking, that way I-69 will finally be able to go through downtown (if it follows the I-70 route.) It may me think of possibly seeing references to Fort Wayne and Evansville at the North and South Split interchanges if such a route were followed and I-70 would only need to be widened a little bit to the southwest of Plainfield (which would probably be done anyway given the future plans for I-70 across the state.)

Living in Perry Township (toward the east around I-65) I am a little dismayed about this whole "tearing up neighborhoods" argument. SR 37 isn't exactly a unifying force across the western part of the township right now and personally feels like a barrier anyway. I won't argue that widening and conversion into an interstate might knock out a few houses near the overpasses and interchanges, but it's not like they'll be bulldozing thorugh entire subdivisions. Well, it's not like anyone cares about those in northern Morgan County who may feel the impact of a new terrain route north to I-70.

You must live pretty close to my in-laws, who are about 2 miles from the I-65/I-465 interchange.  They hardly ever travel to the far western reaches of Perry Twp. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on May 23, 2013, 01:57:46 PM
A reroute would require another EIS and the fights involved with that. Most likely would delay I-69 another 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on May 23, 2013, 05:22:00 PM
He's just pandering to people in the area, no way in hell the reroute will happen in my opinion.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on May 23, 2013, 06:34:18 PM

http://www.ibj.com/indiana-presses-ahead-with-i-69s-next-section/PARAMS/article/41510 (http://www.ibj.com/indiana-presses-ahead-with-i-69s-next-section/PARAMS/article/41510)

"The I-69 extension's first 67 miles between Evansville and the Crane area opened in November. A 27-mile stretch that will run from Crane to Bloomington is under construction in Greene and Monroe counties."

"That segment is expected to be completed by late 2015, with its first portions opening in late 2014, said Jim Stark, INDOT's deputy commissioner for planning and project management."

I've seen the subtle shift of language from "late 2014" to "2015" regarding the Crane to Bloomington link, but this is the first time I've seen them admit "late 2015" and that part of the segment (presumably IN37 to IN45) will not also be delayed into 2015.


Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 23, 2013, 09:51:24 PM
He's just pandering to people in the area, no way in hell the reroute will happen in my opinion.

Agreed there... making a new terrain cut-through to I-70 (5-10 miles at the least) would cost a lot more.  There's really not *that* much they'd need to displace with the way they currently have Section 6 routed.


http://www.ibj.com/indiana-presses-ahead-with-i-69s-next-section/PARAMS/article/41510 (http://www.ibj.com/indiana-presses-ahead-with-i-69s-next-section/PARAMS/article/41510)

I've seen the subtle shift of language from "late 2014" to "2015" regarding the Crane to Bloomington link, but this is the first time I've seen them admit "late 2015" and that part of the segment (presumably IN37 to IN45) will not also be delayed into 2015.

That's my guess as well... they'd open the road between SR 37/SR45 and folks could use US 231 --> SR 45 to go between the I-69 segments until they finish the last part of Section 4.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on May 23, 2013, 10:12:46 PM
Wouldn't moving it to hit 70 at the airport actually destroy more neighborhoods than using 37?  I really don't see many neighborhoods being messed with using the current route (not counting the new interchange at 465 that would make a lot of land owners lose their land) not only that but it would add several unnecessary miles and time to your trip (people would start using 37 to save time as well.) The idea to put it at the airport is stupid and has no benefits at all in my opinion.  The land owners of the area around 37 just want to move it to the airport area so that someone else will lose their land and they get to keep theirs.   
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on May 24, 2013, 08:26:44 AM
Wouldn't moving it to hit 70 at the airport actually destroy more neighborhoods than using 37?  I really don't see many neighborhoods being messed with using the current route (not counting the new interchange at 465 that would make a lot of land owners lose their land) not only that but it would add several unnecessary miles and time to your trip (people would start using 37 to save time as well.) The idea to put it at the airport is stupid and has no benefits at all in my opinion.  The land owners of the area around 37 just want to move it to the airport area so that someone else will lose their land and they get to keep theirs.   

I'm taxing my ability to remember, but I thought the current plan allowed moving slightly west of 37 at the north end for a new exchange with 465 between 37 and the White River.  To completely re-use 37's foot print, frontage roads would have to built to replace 37, so it would seem to make sense just offset "a bit" and build new.  To be honest I don't make it to Indy enough (and try to avoid the IN37/I465 area) to know where that split would have to happen.

As for the I-69 delay between IN45 and US231, I agree traffic would use IN45 south of I69 and IN45/IN58 to US231.  In any case, my co-workers at  Crane would have the part they care about. (I've been greatly enjoying the Washington-Evansville link.)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on May 24, 2013, 02:31:20 PM
Andy, maybe you're thinking of the EIS map from a decade ago. Who knows if that holds any legitimacy now, though that route continues to make a lot of sense to me. It veers off the existing SR-37 about a quarter mile south of 465 to continue straight north to a new interchange. Here's a link to the map: http://www.in.gov/indot/div/projects/i69/pubs/page20.pdf (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/projects/i69/pubs/page20.pdf)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on May 24, 2013, 04:30:55 PM
Actually, I thought I'd seen where someone shared a map of the I-69/465 interchange and what exactly happens to the part of IN 37 that's skipped by the I-69 alignment.  However, I looked back in this thread about 20 pages and didn't see it…
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on May 25, 2013, 02:56:33 AM
I wonder why they don't just do something similar to southeastern ave and i-74, or binford and 465/69/37.  Put it all in one place instead of 2 separate interchanges.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on May 25, 2013, 08:24:35 AM
Because there's a bunch of truck stops at that interchange. Not sure if that's a good reason but that area is crowded. As it is, the new interchange will be going over primarly industrial sites as it leads north of 37 up to 465, so again the whole going through neighborhoods argument is lost.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on May 25, 2013, 08:34:57 AM
http://www.in.gov/ifa/files/RFQ__for__I-69_Section_5.pdf

The Indiana Finance Authority has released the RFQ for Section 5

Final ROD from FHWA is expected in July 2013.  INDOT's going to start buying the needed ROW once that completes.

One of the project goals is "Achieve substantial completion for the Project by Fall 2016", which is a pretty aggressive time frame.  I would assume that would mean all the new overpasses/interchanges are open to traffic, stoplights removed, new lanes open etc, but there might still be some cleanup work to do in 2017 before they could sign the whole thing as I-69 to Martinsville.

Quote
The Indiana Finance Authority (the “IFA”), a body politic and corporate, not a state agency but an independent instrumentality exercising essential public functions, in cooperation with the Indiana Department of Transportation (“INDOT”), is pleased to present this Request for Qualifications (“RFQ”) to prospective entities or groups of entities (the “Proposers”) interested in submitting statements of qualifications (“SOQs”) to develop, design, build, finance, operate and maintain the I-69 Section 5 project through an availability payment concession pursuant to a public-private partnership agreement (“PPA”). The I-69 Section 5 project consists of upgrading approximately 21 miles of existing State Route 37, a four-lane median divided highway, between Bloomington, IN and Martinsville, IN to an interstate highway (the “Project”) . A general map of the Project can be found at the following procurement website:
http://www.in.gov/ifa/2779.htm
The Project is needed and private sector involvement is sought because of the following conditions:
• The Project is part of the national I-69 corridor and improves safety and connectivity to newly constructed I-69 in southwest Indiana;
• Traditional funding sources for the Project are limited and the State of Indiana (the “State”) is seeking to partner with the private sector to optimize the capital funding plan; and
• Private sector innovation in the design and management may help the Project be completed quicker and more efficiently.
IFA and INDOT are committed to improving mobility in the region and using project delivery methods that provide overall best value to the citizens of the State, including the use of public-private partnerships (“P3s”).
The Project presents an attractive opportunity for the private sector because:
• IFA and INDOT are committed to the completion of the Project;
• The State has created a business environment that is attractive to private initiatives;
• The State maintains a AAA credit rating and has a successful history of procuring P3 projects; and
• The anticipated availability payment P3 structure provides a stable platform for risk sharing with the private sector.

The Project is one of six sections that are anticipated to complete the interstate connection from Evansville, Indiana to Indianapolis, Indiana. The broader I-69 project is part of the national I-69 corridor to connect Mexico with Canada. In addition to the Project, the broader I-69 project in the State includes five other sections, four of which that are either completed or are underway beginning just north of the boundary of the Evansville metropolitan area and stretching to SR 37 in Monroe County near Victor Pike southwest of the City of Bloomington. Section 6 begins south of the SR 39 / SR 37 interchange south of Martinsville, and continues northward to I-465 in Indianapolis. This section is approximately 26 miles long and is located in Morgan, Johnson, and Marion Counties. Section 6 is still in the planning stage and construction has not yet started.
The Project involves the construction of four new interchanges and four new overpasses with varying degrees of improvements to the existing interchanges and overpass. The new interchanges are at the Fullerton Pike, Tapp Road/SR 45/2nd Street, Sample Road and Liberty Church Road, all of which are current intersections with SR 37. . The new overpasses will be at Rockport Road, Vernal Pike, Kinser Pike and Chambers Pike. It is anticipated that the selected private-sector partner (“Developer”) will develop, design, build, finance, operate and maintain the Project through an availability payment concession, as more particularly described in this RFQ.
For areas where the freeway is located in a rural area, the mainline design consists of a four-lane divided highway with two 12-foot lanes in each direction separated by a depressed median within the rural sections of I-69 north of Bloomington (north of Chambers Pike). The median includes two seven-foot wide usable inside shoulders, six feet of which are paved. Additional 12-foot-wide lanes are provided in select locations for warranted truck climbing lanes and ramp acceleration and deceleration lanes, and a 12-foot-wide outer shoulder.
For the urban areas, the mainline design consists of a six-lane divided highway with three 12-foot lanes in each direction. Median treatment options include a depressed median or paved shoulders separated by a concrete barrier wall.
Local access roads are proposed for either side of the mainline at various points throughout the Project corridor. These local access roads provide access to otherwise landlocked properties. Either a median or barrier wall will be used between the interstate mainline and access roads. The typical cross sections of these access roads include two travel lanes in each direction (width varies between 11-12 feet). Paved shoulders, varying by specific alternative, will range from 5-8 feet.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on June 07, 2013, 09:18:13 AM
Survey work has started on Section 5

http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=104024&information_id=182569&type=&syndicate=syndicate

Quote
Surveying Begins in Bloomington for I-69 Section 5

Drivers urged to slow down, stay alert along S.R. 37

 

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. – Motorists will see a variety of preliminary survey activities taking place throughout the summer along State Road 37 in preparation for procurement of I-69 Section 5 between Bloomington and Martinsville. Crews are drilling for soil and utility exploration and performing topographic surveys, among other surveying work.

 

Utility crews separate from INDOT are also working along State Road 37 to install new service lines. Drivers are encouraged to stay alert for the safety of motorists and highway workers. Indiana’s “Move Over, Slow Down” law requires drivers to reduce their speed 10 mph below the posted speed limit if they cannot change lanes away from a survey or utility crew with emergency lights flashing.

 

The I-69 project team is again offering personalized outreach to property owners that may be impacted by Section 5. More than 100 “kitchen table meetings” have been held thus far to prepare landowners for survey work and land acquisition. INDOT’s kitchen table meetings have been recognized as a successful practice by the Federal Highway Administration, the Institute of Transportation Engineers and the American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials.

 

Private contractor employees working on behalf of INDOT are required to attend customer service training before being certified to conduct field studies. Landowners are welcome to request photo identification with the I-69 logo before surveyors enter private property as permitted under state law.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on June 09, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Shitty road work alert............

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/residents-say-i-69-workers-using-woods-as-toilet
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on June 11, 2013, 12:16:18 PM
Shitty road work alert............

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/residents-say-i-69-workers-using-woods-as-toilet

Title of the day...thanks Shawn!
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on June 27, 2013, 02:54:47 PM
Question about 69:
Was I-69 originally supposed to terminate at the north split?  I think that there was a proposed I-165 that was supposed to go from the north split and end at around 38th street, but was the original plan for it to be I-69?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: dfwtbear on June 27, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
Question about 69:
Was I-69 originally supposed to terminate at the north split?  I think that there was a proposed I-165 that was supposed to go from the north split and end at around 38th street, but was the original plan for it to be I-69?
Yes, I-69 was supposed to terminate at the interchange of I-65 and I-70 at the north split.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_69_in_Indiana
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on June 27, 2013, 05:12:14 PM
Question about 69:
Was I-69 originally supposed to terminate at the north split?  I think that there was a proposed I-165 that was supposed to go from the north split and end at around 38th street, but was the original plan for it to be I-69?
Yes, I-69 was supposed to terminate at the interchange of I-65 and I-70 at the north split.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_69_in_Indiana
Substantially correct information, though the following seems to be inaccurate.
Quote
State officials later sought to designate the proposed Northeast Freeway connecting that I-69/I-465 interchange to the North Split interchange, approximately 11 miles (18 km) in length, as Interstate 165 in order to get around the initial ruling.
The actual proposed route of I-165 was shorter. According to this FHWA page (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwayhistory/data/page05.cfm), the proposed route ran northward from the north split, ending at 38th Street near the south end of Binford Blvd. (To get to the part about I-165, scroll down about halfway or search for "I-165".)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Alps on June 27, 2013, 06:40:28 PM
(To get to the part about I-165, scroll down about halfway or search for "I-165".)
a) but then you miss everything else
b) holy shit
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: NE2 on June 27, 2013, 07:20:26 PM
c) already posted in some bumfuck thread but it's still awesome
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on June 27, 2013, 08:04:18 PM
Thanks for the appreciation, I think. I had posted the link before in the thread on canceled interstates in the fictional highways board. It's lots of interesting stuff on that subject, though I have yet to get through the whole thing.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Pete from Boston on June 27, 2013, 08:58:07 PM
Quote
not a state agency but an independent instrumentality exercising essential public functions

Is this the Indiana way of saying "independent authority," "quasi-public corporation," etc.?

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tvketchum on June 30, 2013, 09:04:40 AM
Quote
not a state agency but an independent instrumentality exercising essential public functions

Is this the Indiana way of saying "independent authority," "quasi-public corporation," etc.?



No, it's the Indiana way of saying the party in control has changed and will pursue its agenda....
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on July 08, 2013, 05:46:37 PM
This is somewhat appropriate
The last shield inside Indianapolis (that I know of): https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.71903,-86.147366&spn=0.003594,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.718831,-86.148289&panoid=tauJHoZxqPvY6L5jTMllyQ&cbp=12,15.98,,0,3.7

I drove by it today and was pretty shocked to see it still there after all of these years!  Does anyone else know of anymore?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 08, 2013, 06:38:59 PM
I'm not sure what Madison Avenue has to do with I-69, it's not like they'll be signing it on that road. Speaking of that area, the Google Streetview image is already outdated now that there's an arch in the area.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on July 08, 2013, 07:16:39 PM
I'm not sure what Madison Avenue has to do with I-69, it's not like they'll be signing it on that road. Speaking of that area, the Google Streetview image is already outdated now that there's an arch in the area.

The arch wasn't the point of the link, it was the sign, and as I said, it is still there.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: tdindy88 on July 08, 2013, 07:52:18 PM
Don't worry, I understand, I was just remarking more about GSV than anything else, I'm glad to see that the sign is still there and hope that INDOT never finds it. And given that the city recently did away with two old BGSs at that split I'm even more happy to see that SR 37 sign still there. I still see white on blue milemarkers for the former US 31/SR 37 multiplex on downtown streets.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Brandon on July 14, 2013, 05:46:05 PM
It seems interesting having I-69's northern mileposts being increased by 200 for the extension.  InDOT is choosing to go the route of states that switched from sequential to distanced-based numbering by posting old exit number signage:

(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/midamcrossrds/100_3379_zps3f1eb240.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3379_zps3f1eb240.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: roadman65 on July 14, 2013, 05:49:36 PM
No more exit 0 at I-465 then.  It will be interesting now that its Exit 200.  Also the SE part of the loop will be another case of three interstates on one pavement like in Wisconsin for I-90/I-94/ I-39.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2013, 08:31:39 PM
It seems interesting having I-69's northern mileposts being increased by 200 for the extension.  InDOT is choosing to go the route of states that switched from sequential to distanced-based numbering by posting old exit number signage:

Isn't that premature, given the fact that a final route hasn't even been decided?  Before this, I"d have expected at least an extension of the I-69 number into Evansville (with an I-169 renaming of I-164 west of US 41). 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on July 14, 2013, 09:39:08 PM
It seems interesting having I-69's northern mileposts being increased by 200 for the extension.  InDOT is choosing to go the route of states that switched from sequential to distanced-based numbering by posting old exit number signage:

Isn't that premature, given the fact that a final route hasn't even been decided?  Before this, I"d have expected at least an extension of the I-69 number into Evansville (with an I-169 renaming of I-164 west of US 41).

Not really, since otherwise there'd be two I-69 Exit 22's in Indiana, one on the new segment and one on the existing road.  And they'd probably run into some similar situations when Section 4 & 5 open.  INDOT decided adding 200 would be "close enough" and easier for everyone involved rather than waiting on getting an exact mileage for the whole route.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on July 15, 2013, 08:10:02 AM
It seems interesting having I-69's northern mileposts being increased by 200 for the extension.  InDOT is choosing to go the route of states that switched from sequential to distanced-based numbering by posting old exit number signage:

Isn't that premature, given the fact that a final route hasn't even been decided?  Before this, I"d have expected at least an extension of the I-69 number into Evansville (with an I-169 renaming of I-164 west of US 41).

Not really, since otherwise there'd be two I-69 Exit 22's in Indiana, one on the new segment and one on the existing road.  And they'd probably run into some similar situations when Section 4 & 5 open.  INDOT decided adding 200 would be "close enough" and easier for everyone involved rather than waiting on getting an exact mileage for the whole route.

That's the reason, I think they gave for doing it, I think they make up for the lost mileage where 69 is cosigned with 465.  What will 169's routing be in Evansville? It looks like it will just have one exit, at US 41.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: ShawnP on July 15, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
Is Mike road next?

It seems interesting having I-69's northern mileposts being increased by 200 for the extension.  InDOT is choosing to go the route of states that switched from sequential to distanced-based numbering by posting old exit number signage:

(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/midamcrossrds/100_3379_zps3f1eb240.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3379_zps3f1eb240.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on July 22, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
http://www.in.gov/ifa/files/SOQ_Teams_I69_Section_5_Project.pdf
http://infrapppworld.com/2013/07/five-teams-submit-soqs-for-i-69-section-p3-in-indiana.html

Quote
Connect Indiana Development Partners:
 ■Macquarie Capital Group Limited
 ■Lane Infrastructure, Inc.
 ■Lane Industries Incorporated
 
I-69 Development Partners:
 ■OHL Concesiones S.A. (OHLC)
 ■Star America Fund GP LLC (acting in its capacity as general partner of Star America Infrastructure Fund, LP and Star America Infrastructure Fund Affiliates, LP)
 ■UIF GP, LLC
 
Isolux Infrastructure Netherlands B.V.:
 ■Public Sector Pension Investment Board (PSP Investments – a Canadian Crown Corporation)
 ■Grupo Isolux Corsan S.A.
 
Plenary Roads Indiana:
 ■Plenary Group
 
WM I-69 Partners:
 ■Walsh Investors, L.L.C.
 ■Meridiam Infrastructure


We have 5 bidders for the Section 5 Private/Public Partnership.  Not sure if they're going to cut it down further in a week (when they're said they're going to release a "shortlist") or not.

A pretty interesting mix of groups there.  I find it kinda interesting that the groups have already partnered with local construction companies as part of the bids.

I would also expect that INDOT might be holding the ROD as well to release it at the same time as the official release of the Section 5 shortlist (July 30th), but we'll see.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on July 25, 2013, 02:07:24 PM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but does anyone actually think that interstate 69 in its entirety is completely necessary?  I see the importance of the route in Indiana, but south of that, especially in Tennessee and Mississippi, is it really that important?  Aren't the current interstates in the area enough?  I always thought that the whole "it will connect Mexico and Canada" reason wasn't really a huge deal seeing that several other interstates already do that.  Anyway, I'm interested in everyone's opinions. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vtk on July 25, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
The route is split into "sections of independent utility".  This means each of those sections is ostensibly worth building*, even if no other sections are built at all.  Accepting that notion, a continuous highway from Mexico to Canada is not the sole justification for any individual part of the route, but effectively it's the happy by-product of all those SIUs connecting end-to-end.

*Of course, anyone can argue that any individual SIU (or most of them) is not necessary.  But the DOTs have to make an argumet that they are, or the feds won't let it through environmental review.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: vdeane on July 25, 2013, 08:50:31 PM
I think I read that the whole CANAMEX idea was just Indiana trying to get the federal government to pay them to build the interstate from Evansville to Indianapolis.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: theline on July 26, 2013, 01:34:34 PM
^^ That is pretty much true. The whole process is laid out in the Matt Dellinger's fine book, Interstate 69: The Unfinished History of the Last Great American Highway. Advocates for the Evansville-to-Indy road were hitting a stone wall for decades, until they got advice that they should think bigger. Expanding the idea to other states allowed them to enlist allies that could help convince the government to act.

Of course, nobody had a gun held to his head to support the road. If the folks in the other states didn't think there was merit in the idea of the road, they wouldn't have supported it. Whether there is enough support in some states to ever get it completed is dubious. In much of Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana, there just may not be the need that would drive the project forward.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on July 31, 2013, 07:09:22 PM
http://www.infrainsightblog.com/2013/07/articles/ppps/indiana-finance-authority-shortlists-4-proposers-for-its-i69-section-5-project/

4 proposers shortlisted for I-69 Section 5 public-private partnership.  Things seem to be on schedule thus far.  Next item should be the ROD from FHWA which should be imminent.

Quote
On July 31, 2013, the Indiana Finance Authority (“IFA”), in coordination with the Indiana Department of Transportation (“INDOT”), shortlisted four teams for its I-69 Section 5 Project (the “Project”) located between Evansville, Indiana and Indianapolis, Indiana.  The Project marks the second foray of Indiana into the emerging availability payment structure of public-private partnerships in the United States, having led with the East End Crossing project (part of the Louisville-Southern Indiana Ohio River Bridges Project), successfully financed the end of March, 2013.  The Project also marks the second effort of the joint IFA and Indiana Department of Transportation Team in using innovating project delivery approaches to meet growing transportation infrastructure demands in Indiana.
 
The Project is one of six sections that are anticipated to complete the interstate connection from Evansville, Indiana to Indianapolis, Indiana, including improvements to Highway 37 outside of  Bloomington, the home of Indiana University. The broader I-69 project is part of the national I-69 corridor connecting Mexico with Canada. Four of the six sections have either been completed or construction is underway.  Section 5 is approximately 26 miles long, varying from 4 to 6 lanes wide in each direction, located in Morgan, Johnson, and Marion Counties, involving construction of four new interchanges and four new overpasses with varying degrees of improvements to the existing interchanges and overpasses.

The shortlisted teams, in alphabetical order, are:
 Connect Indiana Development Partners (joint venture of Macquarie Capital Group Limited, Lane Infrastructure, Inc. and Lane Industries Incorporated), partnering with The Lane Construction Corporation and Ames Construction, Inc. as the joint venture design-builder, Parsons Brinckerhoff, Inc. as the project designer and with others.
Isolux Infrastructure Netherlands B.V. (through its members, Public Sector Pension Investment Board and Grupo Isolux Corsán S.A.), partnering with Corsán as the builder, AZTEC Engineering Group, Inc. and TYPSA (Tecnica y Projectos S.A.) working together as the project designer and with others
Plenary Roads Indiana (through the Plenary Group), partnering with Granite Construction Company and Fred Weber, Inc. as the joint-venture builder, AECOM as the project designer and with others.
WM I-69 Partners (joint venture of Walsh Investors, L.L.C. and Meridiam Infrastructure), partnering with Walsh Construction Company II, LLC as the builder, Parsons Transportation Group as the project designer and with others.
 
As was the case with the East End Crossing procurement, several new players to the US P3 transportation scene responded to the I-69 Section 5 RFQ, including Isolux and Plenary.
 
IFA plans to issue a final RFP in October of this year with award and execution of the comprehensive P3 agreement in the first half of 2014.
Title: I-69 SIU 3 Section 5 ROD & FEIS released
Post by: thefro on August 18, 2013, 05:32:27 PM
The FEIS & ROD have been released for Section 5 (http://www.i69indyevn.org/section-5-feis/)

FHWA has approved the N. Walnut Street interchange remaining a partial interchange, so that will not need to be reconstructed.  Also they were able to acquire ROW along the edge of the Mountain Bike Park.  Most of the rest of the changes from the DEIS involve local access roads that probably won't be of interest to most here.

Total cost they quote is $394 million.  Obviously not a lot of details on exact construction sequence as that's going to be determined as part of the P3 contract.

http://www.i69indyevn.org/wp-content/uploads/Sec5_FEIS/S5_Appendix-TT.pdf

Also they may be deferring adding the extra lane on each side (making it a 6-lane freeway) for the urban Bloomington I-69 segment as their studies say it will not be needed until 2025.  Their studies assume the Ohio River I-69 bridge is not built by 2020, but is built by 2035
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: thefro on August 19, 2013, 07:31:39 PM
I missed that they have shaved $100-$130 million (http://www.indystar.com/article/20130819/NEWS/308190044/Federal-officials-finalize-route-Bloomington-Martinsville-69-extension) off the cost from the DEIS, which is kind of a big deal.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on August 23, 2013, 06:47:17 PM
Quote
The final piece of the puzzle has been put in place, improving interstate access to the Parkview Regional Medical Center in north Fort Wayne...

All Clear: Union Chapel Road Interchange Now Fully Operational (http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Union-Chapel-Rd--I-69-Interchange-Open-To-Traffic-220827081.html) (Indiana's News Center)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on September 25, 2013, 01:23:49 AM
I was out riding a couple of weeks ago and snapped some pictures of Segment 4 construction.

I'm still learning Flickr, so forgive me in advance for any mistakes.

This is just a random view of dirt in Monroe County.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3727/9927887624_caf259da41_c_d.jpg)

This is the IN45 intersection.  They built the overpass first and are just now getting around to digging the dirt and rock out from under;
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7449/9927814933_5a1da04fcc_c_d.jpg)

This shovel is just above and right of the previous photo.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/9927678705_f30df3d8f6_c_d.jpg)

If I got this right, I'll take and post some more pictures over the next few months.
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: seicer on September 25, 2013, 10:20:02 AM
Is there a way we can get a map of where this is located at - i.e. the IN 45 interchange, specifically?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on September 25, 2013, 12:22:02 PM
Is there a way we can get a map of where this is located at - i.e. the IN 45 interchange, specifically?

Again, I'm still trying to figure out the details on this stuff.
I think this link will get you to the Flickr page and you can get the GPS tags directly from the photos there.  I don't have anything organized, but everything there is from my I-69 ride, so you don't have to pick through any other stuff.  As a minimum, I hope to go back and note what direction I'm looking for each photo, but that's more than I can do during lunch break.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/102735237@N03/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/102735237@N03/)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: cabiness42 on September 25, 2013, 02:22:51 PM
Here is a website with a map of where construction is ongoing:  http://www.i69indyevn.org/i-69-corridor-interactive-map/

I drove this section of IN 45 this past Saturday. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on September 25, 2013, 08:34:46 PM
Is there a way we can get a map of where this is located at - i.e. the IN 45 interchange, specifically?

If I did this right, here is the Google Map link to the IN45 I69 intersection.
http://goo.gl/Lr9NMz (http://goo.gl/Lr9NMz)

This link is from the construction run-around as the overpass was being built.  For some reason I am getting some 2012 photography and then it jumps back to 2009 for a stretch.

edit:
by the way, bing photography shows the trees removed.
http://binged.it/18qoabz (http://binged.it/18qoabz)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: mukade on September 27, 2013, 06:34:56 AM
Quote
There’s a difference of opinion when it comes to stormwater quality at the construction sites for Interstate 69 through Monroe County. On one side is the Indiana Department of Transportation, which noted violations following June storms at construction sites, but believes other factors caused subsequent sedimentation reports...

Monroe County: 'INDOT could do better' on I-69 (http://indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=206&ArticleID=71432) (Indiana Economic Digest)
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on September 30, 2013, 09:28:52 PM
With construction on their door step, Bloomington is not done messing around with I-69.

http://www.ibj.com/monroe-county-looks-to-limit-i-69-truck-stops/PARAMS/article/43782 (http://www.ibj.com/monroe-county-looks-to-limit-i-69-truck-stops/PARAMS/article/43782)
Quote
Officials in southern Indiana's Monroe County are looking at tougher rules for any truck stops that might be built with the opening of the Interstate 69 extension.

I think this is largely symbolic and pointless.  I think the only potential place for such a truck stop would be the southern split of IN37 and I69 due to the lack of any other un-developed exchanges with meaningful highway intersections.

I suspect a more likely place for major truck stop would be the I69, US231 and IN45 exchange about 30 miles west well outside Monroe County.

Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: silverback1065 on September 30, 2013, 11:54:35 PM
With construction on their door step, Bloomington is not done messing around with I-69.

http://www.ibj.com/monroe-county-looks-to-limit-i-69-truck-stops/PARAMS/article/43782 (http://www.ibj.com/monroe-county-looks-to-limit-i-69-truck-stops/PARAMS/article/43782)
Quote
Officials in southern Indiana's Monroe County are looking at tougher rules for any truck stops that might be built with the opening of the Interstate 69 extension.

I think this is largely symbolic and pointless.  I think the only potential place for such a truck stop would be the southern split of IN37 and I69 due to the lack of any other un-developed exchanges with meaningful highway intersections.

I suspect a more likely place for major truck stop would be the I69, US231 and IN45 exchange about 30 miles west well outside Monroe County.

the state should take out all interchanges within 10 miles of Bloomington. 
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: Captain Jack on October 01, 2013, 12:26:31 AM
Has anyone involved with the Monroe County MPO actually been out on SR-37 in the last 20 years...all this fuss about limiting the development and adverse effects of I-69 is moronic. The interchanges and frontage roads along SR 37 in Bloomington are packed with all kinds of urban sprawl, Sams, Wal-Mart, Kohls, numerous chain hotels and restaurants, and strip malls galore.  There isn't any room for anything else if somebody wanted to put something in.

Do they think Sams is going to get knocked down for a Flying J?
Title: Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
Post by: andy on October 01, 2013, 12:27:27 AM