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Regional Boards => Canada => Topic started by: un1 on January 19, 2009, 03:21:49 PM

Title: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 19, 2009, 03:21:49 PM
All of them from Highway 2 to Highway 7276
Let's start with the 400 series highways.



400 Series Highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/400_series_highways)

The 400-series highways are a network of controlled-access freeways throughout the southern portion of the province of Ontario, Canada, forming a special subset of the provincial highway system. They function similarly to the Interstate Highway network in the United States. Modern 400-series highways have high design standards, speed limits of 100 km/h (62.5 mph), and various collision avoidance and traffic management systems. 400-series highway design has set the precedent for a number of innovations used throughout North America, including the parclo interchange.

The province's baseline standard for the construction of a 400-series highway (or any controlled-access freeway in Ontario) is an average traffic count of 10,000 vehicles per day. However, other factors are considered as well. To promote economic development in a disadvantaged region (e.g. current construction extending Highway 400 to Northern Ontario), a 400-series highway may be built where the existing highway's traffic counts fall below 10,000. As well, for environmental, budgetary or community reasons, some proposed 400-series highways (e.g. the Highway 400 extension from 401 to the Gardiner Expressway canceled in the 1960s) have not been built, even where an existing highway's traffic counts exceed the standard.

Routes map:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/400-series-network.gif)

400 Series Highways:


Future Proposals

A map showing all of the planned routes for the 400 series, the red ones are planned, the blue ones are completed.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/400-series-network-future.png)

Future 400 Series Highways:


That is all for the 400 series highways.
-un1
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 19, 2009, 03:22:09 PM
Primary Provincial Highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_highways_in_Ontario)

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation maintains the system of provincial highways in the Canadian province of Ontario.

Ontario has several distinct classes of highways (French voie publique): King's Highways, (which includes Controlled-access highways) and secondary highways, with individual highways referred to as "that part of the King's Highway known as No. xx," or simply "the King's Highway known as No. xx."  For the purposes of legal jurisdiction, however, the Highway Traffic Act deems that tertiary roads are also considered to be "King's Highways" (French route principale).

The term "the King's Highway", first adopted in place of "provincial highway" in 1930, has been deprecated since the 1990s, and the old signs were replaced circa 1993. Currently these highways are again designated "provincial highways" or "provincially maintained highways" by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation. The Highway Traffic Act, amended as recently as 2006, still refers to them as "King's Highway". Both terms are sometimes used within the same regulation as the older term is phased out.

There is no route map.

Primary Provincial Highways:


I'll try to update this as often as I can, so that is all. Look out for more!
-un1
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 19, 2009, 03:22:30 PM
Secondary Provincial Highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_highways_in_Ontario#Secondary_highways)

Secondary highways exist in Northern Ontario (and used to exist in Central and Eastern Ontario) to connect towns and remote areas, often connecting small to large towns to major Kings Highways. These highways are currently numbered from 502 to 673. Secondary highway markers are trapezoid-shaped. On the face of the marker appear, in order from top to bottom, the Ontario coat of arms, the number of the highway, and the word "ONTARIO".

A few secondary highways remain gravel-surfaced, although most have been paved. The speed limit on nearly all of these routes is 80 km/h (50 mph), although Highway 655 is posted at 90 km/h (56 mph).

The Secondary Highway system was introduced in 1955 to service regions in Northern and Central Ontario. In Northern Ontario, where there is no county-level system of government to take over road maintenance, secondary highways are still in operation and serve a function analogous to that of a county road, while those in Southern Ontario have all been downloaded to the counties and rolled into the county road systems there. Only one secondary highway in the province, Highway 537 in Greater Sudbury, lays within a municipal jurisdiction which also has a county-equivalent road system — it is located in an area that was an unincorporated part of the Sudbury District until being annexed into the city in 2001.

There is no route map.

Secondary Provincial Highways:




Tertiary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_highways_in_Ontario)

Tertiary roads connect those regions in northern Ontario not served by secondary highways. Legally, "road" (French route) has the same meaning as highway. These roads are currently numbered 801 to 811, and are marked by a simple rectangular marker with rounded corners bearing the number of the highway and the word "ONTARIO".

Most of these roads are gravel-surfaced and low-standard. The speed limit on these routes is 80 km/h (50 mph), although design standards generally override such.

The Ministry of Transportation introduced the Tertiary Road system in 1962. These roads were mostly resource access roads generally built into the most remote areas in Northern Ontario. These roads were constructed in small numbers, and with one exception (Highway 802), do not end at a settlement. Most of these Tertiary Roads were later upgraded and rebuilt to Secondary Highway standards. At present, there are only six tertiary roads in Ontario. All are gravel roads, except for Hwy 802 and Hwy 805, which both have some paved sections.

No route map.

Tertiary Highways:


-un1
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 19, 2009, 03:26:10 PM
County Roads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_roads_in_Ontario)

This is a list of County Numbered roads in Ontario. These roads are found only in Southern and Southwestern Ontario (with the lone exception being Greater Sudbury, which is in Northern Ontario), and are listed alphabetically by county, because more than one county can sometimes have the same county road number without connecting across county lines.

By their nature, all county roads in Ontario are numbered, unless noted. This page lists all of the county/district/regional roads by their respective county, district, or regional municipality.

Some counties have been merged in the past, and are known as "United Counties". They will be treated and named as one county.

The county road network has been present for many years, but has only been signed with the flowerpot logos since the early 1970s or 1980s (depending on the area). Previously, the roads simply had road names, such as "Essex Road 42" or "Kent County Road 14", and so on, but had no shields to designate them.

In addition to County Roads, many townships also have Concession roads and Township Roads, such as Colchester South Road 3, and Concession 8. These do not have shields (only names on signs and maps), aside from one exception: Former Highway 620. It was downloaded to the Peterborough and Hastings County governments, and in one section, the highway was downloaded further to Wollaston Township, Ontario (in Peterborough County), and is now signed as "Wollaston Township 620", with a municipal sign similar to an Ontario Tertiary Highway.

List of county's with lists of county roads:


7000 Series Highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_highways_in_Ontario#Others)

In addition to these three classes of highways, the Ministry of Transportation maintains other roads (Resource roads, Industrial roads) that are of strategic importance to the Ministry, but which are not important enough to be given any special marking. These roads are designated with 7000-series numbers for internal inventory purposes, though they are not publicly marked as such. These are frequently, but not always, former highway segments which lost their original highway designation but remain important as connecting routes to communities or other highways.

As a further note, some roads are designated as 7000-series highways but are discontinuous, connected by "non-assumed" roads (roads not under provincial control, such as county roads, or town streets), linking both parts that share the same number. Also, multiple MTO owned expressways have a 7,000 hidden designation.

There is no route map.

7,000 Series Highways:


There a complete list of every provincially maintained road in Ontario.
I will try to update this as new roads come up.

-un1
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 19, 2009, 08:20:41 PM
You can tell it was a cold one out there today.

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_357_west_signs_lg.jpg)

Best,
-Haljackey
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2009, 08:29:45 PM
how does one access the bookmark?  I assume it is a link of some sort, but it no clickey.

here is a great page on Ontario highways:

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/

any of these old-school markers left in the wild by any chance??

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-3/hwy2-37_lg.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 19, 2009, 08:31:25 PM
I got the pic from http://www.onthighways.com/ (http://www.onthighways.com/)

Excellent site for info and pics.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: John on January 19, 2009, 09:40:04 PM
Its haljackey, yay!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: V'Ger on January 19, 2009, 10:13:38 PM
Wow, great job on that guide. I had no idea Ontario actually had so many freeways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: shadowduck on January 20, 2009, 11:01:05 AM
Wow, great job on that guide. I had no idea Ontario actually had so many freeways.

Not also does Ontario have many freeways (there are a few others non-400 series like the 115 and the 7) it also holds the record for the widest and busiest freeway in the world. The 401 through Toronto is up to 20 lanes wide and carries over 500,000 vehicles a day.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on January 20, 2009, 11:06:55 AM
Actually the 500 k number is a SWADT (Summer Average Weekday Traffic) It should be noted that the AADT is lower. You need the AADT to compare with other freeways throughout the world. It's still the busiest though, the 401 has 426,000 and the next one's LA's I-405 with 390,000
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 20, 2009, 01:38:02 PM
I believe the highest ever recorded number of cars traveling on the 401 was about 625,000 in a single day in a section of Toronto.  Pretty insane eh?  The AADTs are also impressive.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: treichard on January 20, 2009, 02:53:57 PM
Will any of the 400-series freeway expansion be completed before 2009 is over? Got a timeline for any of the expansion?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 20, 2009, 04:08:51 PM
treichard: Not too sure, I'll check and see.

Ok, I'm done a new section on the first page.  :D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 20, 2009, 07:24:17 PM
New page?  Time for a new picture!

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_346_west_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 20, 2009, 07:25:28 PM
in what circumstances do they use blue guide signs instead of green?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on January 20, 2009, 07:28:36 PM
The signs on the collector lanes are blue and the signs on the express lanes are green.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 20, 2009, 07:30:29 PM
I'm pretty sure that green signs are for express lanes and for highways that don't have a C/E setup and blue signs are for collector lanes and for toll highways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 20, 2009, 07:31:06 PM
very cool!  I remember the occasional blue guide sign on Montreal's autoroutes in the 80s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: shadowduck on January 20, 2009, 11:13:36 PM
The most amazing thing about this- is the 401 was widened to 12 lanes in places in the 1970s! I don't think any highway in the US was even close to being that wide in the 1970s or maybe even the 1980s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 20, 2009, 11:19:10 PM
really? when was I-75/85 widened?  I thought that one had been many lanes since forever.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: shadowduck on January 20, 2009, 11:26:26 PM
really? when was I-75/85 widened?  I thought that one had been many lanes since forever.

It was widened in the late 80s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 20, 2009, 11:29:43 PM
how many lanes wide is this?

(image just a bit too large to embed here... so here is a link)
http://www.texasfreeway.com/Houston/historic/photos/images/us59_trench_traffic_jam_1962.jpg

Houston, TX.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 20, 2009, 11:33:27 PM
agentsteel53:  Well in that pic cars are in the inner and (probably) outer shoulder, so that makes only 4 lanes in width (or 8 each way).

Another interesting note is that the 401 went from a 4-lane rural highway bypass right into a 12+ lane beast right away!  No gradual widening here, it just tripled in size!  :P
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: V'Ger on January 21, 2009, 01:06:45 AM
That interchange almost looks scarier than the I-5/405 junction in Orange County. 22 lanes wide!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Shadow Assassin on January 21, 2009, 06:47:44 AM
Don't they usually use yellow-on-blue signs to point people towards the Queen Elizabeth Way?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 21, 2009, 05:49:27 PM
Don't they usually use yellow-on-blue signs to point people towards the Queen Elizabeth Way?

Hey, welcome SA!

No, just the QEW shield is yellow on blue.  Its the only one like that, as the rest are white on green.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 21, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
are any of these blue/white shields still around?  they were posted until 1993, I think.
(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/IMAGES/mcfreeway.jpg)

and check out the blue guide sign!
(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/IMAGES/MC_1978.jpg)

also, when did Ontario start using green/white for trailblazers?  I don't know of any green/white shields before about 1955... I think back then the trailblazers were white/black too.

bonus picture:
(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/IMAGES/QEW_old.jpg)

now THAT is a QEW shield!  What I wouldn't give to get my hands on a cateyed QEW or King's Highway shield from the 1930s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 21, 2009, 06:14:02 PM
I believe there is one blue 401 shield still around, but the QEW shield from the 30s, no, or I don't expect there to be one.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 21, 2009, 06:16:15 PM
no, I can't imagine a 1930s shield being around... maybe one of the smaller King's Highway shields from the 50s in some town with more polar bears than people... but probably not even that.

(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/Hwy3C.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 21, 2009, 06:20:58 PM
Well, 3c is long gone (and Polar Bears don't live in most of Ontario, only the extreme north of it, which is about 1000 km above the populated area of Ontario). Although, next time I see my uncle who used to work on road maintenance in Ontario who has a huge and I mean HUGE collection of highway shields, some of them are new some of them have the newer design but are far larger (like the Highway 11 shield in my house). He might have an old one, not too sure about it though.. (Last time I saw him was in 2007, so all of his shields are very vague in my memory)

-un1
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 21, 2009, 06:26:10 PM
do numbered highways go that far north?

that would be great if you could get a photo of his highway shield collection!

all the pictures I'm posting are being taken from here.  Lots of shields there to be seen.

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 21, 2009, 06:36:09 PM
No, the highest one goes to Pickle Lake (Highway 599 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_599_(Ontario))) (Although there was one but it was closed in the 1980s, then there is just little roads, mostly winter roads that goes up 50-70 km from there), which is about 300km away from the extreme north. The only way to get there is by plane, train or boat.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 21, 2009, 07:46:47 PM
Oh new page!  Time for new picture!

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_402-403_images/403_cl_111_east_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 22, 2009, 08:05:45 PM
Secondary and 800 Series highways have been added to the guide.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 23, 2009, 11:12:22 AM
A rural highway (Highway 400) as it heads into the Canadian Shield:

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_400_images/400_cl_164_north_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on January 23, 2009, 04:06:48 PM
hal: that is for upgrading them to a 4 lane highway. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 23, 2009, 04:31:56 PM
hal: that is for upgrading them to a 4 lane highway. :rolleyes:

Well its actually for 4+ lane, grade separated highways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 08, 2009, 09:42:25 PM
Am I the only one posting stuff here?   :rolleyes:

Oh well, more pics! 

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6110/404cl19northlglr5.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on February 08, 2009, 10:07:14 PM
How about a less freeway picture?
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_11_images/11_cl_960_west.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Hellfighter on February 09, 2009, 09:50:15 PM
Is that Hwy 11?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on February 10, 2009, 08:07:11 PM
Yes it is.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 11, 2009, 12:03:33 AM
Could it get any straiter?   :-P
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on February 11, 2009, 08:59:56 AM
Interstate 37: Flat, strait and dry on almost it's whole route.
(Unrelated to Ontario)

(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll316/un1_2008/On%20The%20Road/TripImages1Kegerator014.jpg)
(Photographed by me)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 11, 2009, 09:34:36 AM
Interstate 37: Flat, strait and dry on almost it's whole route.
(Unrelated to Ontario)

Then why are you posting it here?   :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on February 11, 2009, 09:53:05 AM
To show you that Highway 11 isn't the only flat/straight highway on Earth. (Just because I wanted to post it)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 11, 2009, 10:12:52 AM
To show you that Highway 11 isn't the only flat/straight highway on Earth. (Just because I wanted to post it)

Meh, I knew that.   :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 16, 2009, 02:53:16 PM
Time for another pic, Highway 401 close to #2A.  Its an impressive curve pic!

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_cl_392_west_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mightyace on February 18, 2009, 07:26:39 PM
What are the squares with the tar around the edges?

Traffic sensors of some kind?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 02, 2009, 11:54:38 PM
What are the squares with the tar around the edges?

Traffic sensors of some kind?

I'd assume so.  Might be a measurement of AADT or something.



Here's a new pic straight from MTO.  It's the 401/404/DVP interchange in Northern Toronto.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1420/hwy404401interchange102sz6.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on March 03, 2009, 08:15:42 AM
Wow that looks nice, I think it might be a candidate for my next avatar.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 08, 2009, 06:51:02 PM
Here's a newly completed interchange along Highway 400 in northern Ontario:
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8986/hwy400hwy1411024x768800.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on March 08, 2009, 07:05:57 PM
How new? Is the section from Parry Sound to Nobel completed? Or is that the former gap (I forget the name)?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: yanksfan6129 on March 08, 2009, 07:42:31 PM
I like the way the rock outcroppings were incorporated into that interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 09, 2009, 01:02:09 PM
How new? Is the section from Parry Sound to Nobel completed? Or is that the former gap (I forget the name)?

Its with highway 141 I believe, wherever that is.   :-P
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on March 09, 2009, 03:09:20 PM
Geez, I guess living in the middle of Ontario helps with geography.  :pan:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 27, 2009, 03:46:42 PM
A couple more pictures of interest:

Elevated highway in downtown Toronto:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8599/gardinernightlg800x600.jpg)

Paint testing:
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9841/401cl550westlg800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on March 27, 2009, 05:10:06 PM
Is that first one the Gardiner? I heard stories about chopping a part of it down...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on March 27, 2009, 06:29:42 PM
The first one, yes, and yes there is plans but I really hope they never happen.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 27, 2009, 11:49:41 PM
Yes many people want to see the elevated section of Gardiner taken underground similar to what the Big Dig did to Boston's ugly elevated highway.

The problem is that there just isn't enough money to finance this massive project, (remember that the US has a much larger budget than Canada) and the problems Boston faced during construction are feared to happen here.

I also recall there were plans to tunnel another highway under Lake Ontario and connect further east (similar to the Chunnel).  It would contain a separate road and subway deck.  It seems like a pipe dream at this point, however.

Others just want to tear down the Gardiner and replace it with a surface street.  Although this might get rid of the eyesore, it would significantly hamper the Gardiner's capacity, leading to heavy traffic congestion.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on March 29, 2009, 08:29:46 AM
Maybe the Toronto government just throws out the idea of dismantling the Gardiner to see what kind of reaction it Garnishes?  If nothing else, it's good to think the City has the foresight to appreciate that a significant replacement strategy will need to be implemented for the continued good repair of the highway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: ctsignguy on March 29, 2009, 10:41:11 AM
I remember the 401 quite well...

i used to go to the GTA to see my (at the time) SO in Scarborough...i would always arrive in early afternoon, and spend almost 90 minutes from 427 to 404  (I told her the 401 in that stretch was 'the world's longest parking lot' and she didnt argue the point...

Always a busy road....i recall we left the airport area around 2AM where we had attended Anime North (the con had ended at 5:30P, we had simply spent several hours in a Tim Horton's shooting the breeze with some mutual friends from Hamilton over pop, juice, coffee and donuts) and that road was STILL incredibly busy for that hour of the night!  @_@
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Hellfighter on March 30, 2009, 02:48:37 PM
Have they agreed on whether and where to extend the 401?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 31, 2009, 12:04:49 AM
Hellfighter06:  I think a possible route has pretty much been confirmed, but you know the government.  It could take decades before we see the thing completed!   :-P

Anyways a couple more pictures of interest I found:

One of the iconic "parclo" interchanges the province is known for.  This one is along Highway 407.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/300/15hwy40702.jpg)

The wide 401 cuts its way through a golf course!   :pan:
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3221/img0012800x600.jpg)

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed them!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on March 31, 2009, 10:08:35 AM
Quote
The wide 401 cuts its way through a golf course!   

I've seen crazier things, like the I-278/I-495 in New York right through a cemetary  :pan:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 03, 2009, 12:30:50 AM
Yay, Spring is here!  Finally we can put this behind us:

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5847/23208136036624e24209o80gh2.jpg)

 :spin:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on April 03, 2009, 07:40:41 AM
Not here haljackey, we just got 30 cm of wet and heavy snow even though all of our temperatures are staying above freezing now (even at night).
The sad thing is that our snow melted just before it!  :-(
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 04, 2009, 11:57:11 AM
Here's a shot of one of closest interchanges near me.  (Wellington Road @ the 401).

Recently it was reconstructed from an outdated 3/4 cloverleaf interchange to a large, higher capacity parclo type.

Here's a shot of one of the new entrance ramps:
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4783/15445372800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 24, 2009, 04:48:43 PM
Argh it looks like their making concrete highways again.   :pan:

Still, the new section of the 410 is nicely designed.  Here's a pic:
(http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/english/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2008/Hwy410-extension.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on April 25, 2009, 08:41:59 AM
^ Neat pictures.  What's neat is that Phase 3 of the extension will actually be surfaced in asphalt.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on April 25, 2009, 10:18:32 AM
WHY the concrete hatred?  It's much more durable than asphalt for freeways and heavily trafficked arterials.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: deathtopumpkins on April 25, 2009, 06:54:45 PM
Some people just prefer asphalt over concrete for their own reasons...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on April 26, 2009, 10:22:58 AM
the other nice thing about concrete is it allows for roadbuilders to pave over it with asphalt once the concrete is starting to wear.  The worn concrete still serves as a pretty decent roadbase for another decade or two.

I'll admit though, I know a lot of states like Michigan pave arterial City streets with concrete.  I have never been much a fan of that.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 26, 2009, 02:25:28 PM
I hate concrete, especially on highways.

Why?  Its bumpy, and you can't see the lines on the road so well.  Look at the pic on the last page and you'll see they put black paint right after the lane markings so you can see it.  That looks horrible!

When you're going fast on concrete all you hear is bump, bump, bump whereas asphalt is a smooth, quiet ride.  When roads start to wear down asphalt can easily be repaired whereas concrete is a more difficult, expensive job.  When concrete is left in a bad condition it gets even worse as there are more cracks resulting in a even bumpier ride that can take a toll on your car.

I've even seen some concrete highways that have been repaired with asphalt.  Their cracks and potholes are filled with asphalt which looks horrible.

Asphalt, if built right and properly maintained, is much better than concrete.  It also works better in Canada as asphalt can expand and contact better than concrete during the many freeze/thaws this country experiences when the temperature hovers around the freezing mark.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on April 26, 2009, 04:20:25 PM
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_110-119_images/115_cl_37_north.jpg) ?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: yanksfan6129 on April 26, 2009, 04:38:10 PM
Haljackey said it all!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on April 26, 2009, 04:56:01 PM
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_17_images/17_cl_1709_east.jpg)

Look at how easily this asphalt was repaired.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 27, 2009, 12:50:22 AM
The way I see it, an asphalt or concrete highway can look bad.  Under normal conditions, concrete may last longer than asphalt, but asphalt is cheaper to build and repair.  The pros still outweigh the cons in my opinion.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on April 27, 2009, 07:59:24 PM
Simple, hijack.  Do a life-cycle cost analysis (discounted to present-year dollars) of concrete vs. asphalt.  Feel free to include the higher user cost of more elaborate/longer lasting construction zones when concrete is replaced.  I've seen one done putting concrete ahead.  Your mileage may vary, especially depending on location (some places asphalt is cheaper than others, plus freeze-thaw can be an issue).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Fcexpress80 on April 30, 2009, 02:27:35 AM
In regards to the asphalt/concrete debate, I would think asphalt is cheaper but wears faster than concrete.  Asphalt takes a beating on grades where braking vehicles "push" up ripples.  This would be most noticable on off-ramp exits. 

Concrete holds up better but ages and wears eventually, especially where studded tires are used during winter months. 

In my city (Seattle, WA), the WA State DOT is currently tearing out and repouring severely cracked sections of concrete on the 45-year-old Interstate 5.  The ruts created by tire wear are being eliminated by the use of a high tech laser level concrete grinder which shaves off the old surface by a few centimeters to a smooth surface, good as new.  I'm sure the cost is more than slapping on a new layer of asphalt but it creates a pretty quiet surface that will last another 40 years, I hope.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2009, 05:26:41 AM
Quote from: Fcexpress80
Asphalt takes a beating on grades where braking vehicles "push" up ripples.  This would be most noticable on off-ramp exits

True, that's why many countries construct a different kind of pavements on off ramps and at traffic lights. I know my city (Zwolle, Netherlands) used to have some nice camel pavement at traffic lights.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 30, 2009, 12:00:18 PM
Yes well it all depends on the location.

In Ontario, we experience many freeze/thaws which expands and contracts the roadbed.  Asphalt can expand and contract better than concrete.  You also have to take into consideration he sand/salt/deicing solution and plows used to keep the roads clear in the wintertime.

Advances are being made in both asphalt and concrete paving.  Just look at the Big Dig tunnels in Boston, concrete feels right at home there, but when you get to the climate and conditions of Ontario's highways, asphalt is better.


A small quote about this from the 400 series Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/400-series_highways_(Ontario))
Quote
Unlike most of the U.S.'s highways (which are mostly paved with a concrete surface), the majority of 400-series highways are coated with asphalt pavement. All bridge decks are also covered with asphalt, with concrete only exposed around the expansion joints, in contrast to most U.S. Interstates, which have bridge decks paved with exposed concrete containing tining (grooves).

Normally, asphalt pavements would actually require more frequent maintenance due to the material being less durable in general. In addition, the laying of additional asphalt layers would require a stronger infrastructure, translating to higher construction costs. However, the use of additional asphalt covers on most 400-series highways is due to the fact that the asphalt is more resistant to erosion from de-icing salt than concrete.


You'll even see complete opposite uses of concrete and asphalt on Ontario's highways compared to US highways.  A great example is highway 407 which is concrete but has asphalt bridges, whereas many US highways are asphalt and have concrete bridges.

Interesting eh?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on April 30, 2009, 12:25:41 PM
You know what, it is interesting.  I remember talking to an MTO guy a few years ago when they were presenting the Wellington Road widening along the 401 a few years back.  I asked the MTO guy if they were going to resurface the highway in concrete, for which he scoffed.  He didn't like concrete either.  I guess it is up the specific engineer what they want to see constructed.  Ontario has seen a fair number of concrete highways constructed in the past few years, the 401 in Essex, the 402 in Lambton, the 410, the 417 near Hawsburry, Highway 3 in Essex.  Apparently the MTO is quite pleased with the work being completed by CoCo paving in Essex.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on May 07, 2009, 03:49:17 PM
http://www.news.ontario.ca/mndm/en/2009/05/four-laning-of-highway-1117-begins.html (http://www.news.ontario.ca/mndm/en/2009/05/four-laning-of-highway-1117-begins.html)

Starts next year, not much, but that is because the past few years they completely rebuilt the road, though the sections that are becoming a limited access expressway haven't been rebuilt last year (due to complete failure of the company who was supposed to do it  X-( ).


Just looking around the news site and I found this:
http://www.news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2009/04/ontarios-roads-safest-in-north-america.html (http://www.news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2009/04/ontarios-roads-safest-in-north-america.html)

Ontario's Roads are the safest in North America...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on May 22, 2009, 09:51:36 PM
Some new photos:
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_sign_HoH_Bill.jpg)

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_sign_HoH_Lg.jpg)

(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_401_images/401_dv_438_east_Apr09.jpg)

(http://www.onthighways.com/secondary/hwy_600-649_images/600_cl_38_east.jpg)

(http://www.onthighways.com/secondary/hwy_600-649_images/600_cl_46_west.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 22, 2009, 10:37:29 PM
sometimes they do take that "English and French" thing just a bit too far.  Just send Quebec off already to be its own independent nation!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on May 22, 2009, 11:37:51 PM
^ Really, you think so?  I like our billingual signage.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 23, 2009, 12:17:13 AM
I think it's a waste of taxpayer money to be spending twice as much as necessary.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on May 23, 2009, 10:13:31 AM
bah...  supporting our bilingual heritage is worth the cost of a few extra signs.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Truvelo on June 15, 2009, 07:01:28 AM
sometimes they do take that "English and French" thing just a bit too far.
Exactly, one of the first signs I saw when leaving the airport is this. It's not as if points of the compass are completely different in both languages :-/

(http://www.speedcam.co.uk/d70/westnorth.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on June 16, 2009, 05:34:25 PM
^ That is a sharp photo, do you use a filter for that?  No haze at all.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Hellfighter on June 17, 2009, 12:38:47 AM
Does anyone have any photos of Hwy 599?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Truvelo on June 17, 2009, 06:49:07 AM
^ That is a sharp photo, do you use a filter for that?  No haze at all.
I use a filter but it's only to protect the lens. The sharpness is probably from 10 years of taking photos at the wheel so with experience you get the hang of reducing shake and blur :)

Here's a 100% crop of the next sign. I doubt very much that even if I parked and took the picture using a tripod it would come out any sharper.

(http://www.speedcam.co.uk/d70/401sign.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on June 18, 2009, 01:32:45 AM
How long has Ontario been using Clearview? It looks like they're using it even for route shields, which differs from the U.S. in most respects (most US jurisdictions using Clearview still opt for FHWA fonts on route shields and markers).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Tom on June 21, 2009, 11:32:06 AM
Here's a group about Hwy 17, and an article about Ontario's provincial highways + county roads:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hwy17ontariocanada/?yguid=148538425 (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hwy17ontariocanada/?yguid=148538425) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ontario_provincial_highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ontario_provincial_highways)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_roads_of_Ontario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_roads_of_Ontario) :coffee: 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on June 22, 2009, 10:15:09 PM
^that sign was not put up by the MTO, but rather the GTAA (Greater Toronto Airport Authority).  MTO has used clearview on a couple of signs on the QEW, but since 2007, hasn't put anything new up.  The City of Toronto is using Clearview on its newest freeway signs.

(http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_87_TB.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 22, 2009, 11:58:54 PM
^that sign was not put up by the MTO, but rather the GTAA (Greater Toronto Airport Authority).  MTO has used clearview on a couple of signs on the QEW, but since 2007, hasn't put anything new up.  The City of Toronto is using Clearview on its newest freeway signs.

(http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_87_TB.jpg)

Somebody forgot to put up the exit number tabs there. lol.  Been awhile since I was that far North on the QEW.  The farthest North I've been as of late is the Ontario Street interchange on the QEW in St. Catharines.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on June 23, 2009, 07:33:31 AM
^Ontario doesn't post exit numbers on every sign.  Usually just at advanced arrows, and at the gore.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Tom on August 18, 2009, 07:58:10 AM
In the early days of modern highways, it was common for some major highways to be gravel, so we probably don't think about any gravel highways later on.  However, the last stretch of gravel highway was Hwy 17 in northwestern Ontario, and wasn't paved until 1967.  Personally, I remember driving on St. Joseph Island's Hwy 548 in 2002, and it was gravel, but I believe it was because of a construction project on the road at the time. :coffee:

[Edited for readability. -S.]
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on August 21, 2009, 06:16:40 AM
There are still gravel highways in Ontario.  This is Highway 600:
http://www.onthighways.com/secondary/hwy_600-649_images/600_cl_47_east.jpg (http://www.onthighways.com/secondary/hwy_600-649_images/600_cl_47_east.jpg)

The last stretch of principal highway in Ontario to be paved was Highway 129, it was paved in 1982.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Tom on August 22, 2009, 09:22:56 AM
Interesting.  Thanks 4 the info. :coffee:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sonysnob on September 09, 2009, 09:23:49 PM
Highway to nowhere:
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_40-49_images/49_cl_20_north.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: palisades on October 26, 2009, 11:14:59 PM
Just a quick drive on the 401 heading into the basketweve

[Edit: link deleted]
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on November 15, 2009, 01:28:34 AM
Just a quick drive on the 401 heading into the basketweve

[Edit: link deleted]

Palisades - You will have to host your image on a different site.  It's not coming through from where you're hosting it, and in order to view it, people have to log in.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on December 19, 2009, 02:11:22 PM
Bump..

I just finished the list of highways on the first page, now it includes the unmarked roads, 7,000 series.

So how about another picture?
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_3-9_images/6_cl_434_north.jpg)

I've been there before!

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: yanksfan6129 on December 20, 2009, 10:09:39 AM
Where is that?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on December 20, 2009, 10:13:15 AM
Right near the ferry docks on highway 6 on Manitoulin Island. (South Baymouth)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: joseph1723 on December 23, 2009, 12:49:56 PM
Here's a few pictures I got of the newest 400 series highway, the final phase of the 410 extension which opened in mid November 2009.

Here's map of the section of newly opened freeway from Wikipedia click to enlarge:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/410_extension_from_Mayfield_to_Valleywood.svg/500px-410_extension_from_Mayfield_to_Valleywood.svg.png) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/410_extension_from_Mayfield_to_Valleywood.svg/1000px-410_extension_from_Mayfield_to_Valleywood.svg.png)

Looking south at the split where former highway 10(Hurontario Street) would have split from highway 410.
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7890/dscn5713q.jpg)

The diagrammatic showing the split.
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7648/dscn5714.jpg)

The overhead at the gore point of the split.
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3937/dscn5716b.jpg)

And finally the southbound gore signage for Mayfield Road.
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5/dscn5720h.jpg)


Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on December 26, 2009, 11:27:34 AM
Cool, thanks for sharing joseph1723!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 26, 2009, 07:39:14 PM
Very nice.  Was wondering how they would do the signage where ON-10 becomes ON-410.

===

Hey un, have you seen the Ontario Routes I did for the CHM project yet?  I've already shown off the previews @ the ontroads's Yahoo Group.  And from that, I know I still have to make minor tweaks the following King's Highways: 4(need to split this one because of London not having a connecting link), 41, 48, & 148

Here's the link to the stuff.   Please let me know if you see anything else that might be wrong:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/selecthwys.php?sys=canon&rg=all&mt=g&gr=p&sub=Show#r
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on December 26, 2009, 10:26:21 PM
Hey un, have you seen the Ontario Routes I did for the CHM project yet?  I've already shown off the previews @ the ontroads's Yahoo Group.  And from that, I know I still have to make minor tweaks the following King's Highways: 4(need to split this one because of London not having a connecting link), 41, 48, & 148

Here's the link to the stuff.   Please let me know if you see anything else that might be wrong:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/selecthwys.php?sys=canon&rg=all&mt=g&gr=p&sub=Show#r

No I haven't, I've been very busy. I only to browse the forums I am active on (Which are currently Simtropolis, AARoads, Airliners.net) and being on the Simtropolis Help Squad takes a little bit more time too. I will look over for any errors, If I do I'll tell you. So far it looks very accurate, but I know there is quite a bit to look over.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on December 27, 2009, 12:04:36 AM
have you seen the Ontario Routes I did for the CHM project yet?  I've already shown off the previews @ the ontroads's Yahoo Group.  And from that, I know I still have to make minor tweaks the following King's Highways: 4(need to split this one because of London not having a connecting link), 41, 48, & 148

Here's the link to the stuff.   Please let me know if you see anything else that might be wrong:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/selecthwys.php?sys=canon&rg=all&mt=g&gr=p&sub=Show#r

I can tell you that Highway 4 looks correct, except for the east/west link in London.  Northbound is the street to the south, southbound is the street to the north.  Its odd how the two directions don't follow the same road... no one seems to know how to route the thing through the city correctly.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 27, 2009, 12:28:57 AM
have you seen the Ontario Routes I did for the CHM project yet?  I've already shown off the previews @ the ontroads's Yahoo Group.  And from that, I know I still have to make minor tweaks the following King's Highways: 4(need to split this one because of London not having a connecting link), 41, 48, & 148

Here's the link to the stuff.   Please let me know if you see anything else that might be wrong:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/selecthwys.php?sys=canon&rg=all&mt=g&gr=p&sub=Show#r

I can tell you that Highway 4 looks correct, except for the east/west link in London.  Northbound is the street to the south, southbound is the street to the north.  Its odd how the two directions don't follow the same road... no one seems to know how to route the thing through the city correctly.

We split routes in half it they travel on separate streets.  And as far as I have been told, 4 (while it may be signed) no longer exists in London as the Connecting Link has been terminated.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: joseph1723 on December 27, 2009, 10:32:33 PM
Thanks I had some more pic of the ON 410 extension but they came out too dim or blurry.

===

have you seen the Ontario Routes I did for the CHM project yet?  I've already shown off the previews @ the ontroads's Yahoo Group.  And from that, I know I still have to make minor tweaks the following King's Highways: 4(need to split this one because of London not having a connecting link), 41, 48, & 148

Here's the link to the stuff.   Please let me know if you see anything else that might be wrong:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/selecthwys.php?sys=canon&rg=all&mt=g&gr=p&sub=Show#r

I can tell you that HIghway 7 is pretty accurate except I think that the section west of Markham Bypass RR48 was downloaded to York Region in 2006 - 2007. I'll need tio check that though, aside from that, the rest seems to be pretty accurate. 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on December 28, 2009, 11:18:32 PM
If the MTO was logical enough, then these would be the correct 400-series numbers:

400 from Toronto to Barrie=411
The rest of 400=469
401=402
402=422
403=405
404=448
405=408A
406=458
409=401
QEW=408

Umm... why?

A lot of them are numbered as such because they follow a similar route of a corresponding number.  For example, highway 410 follows highway 10, and thus it is named as such.

Are you implying the even/odd thing in terms of route direction?  That works well in the US, but in Canada it doesn't make sense since we don't have many highways that run up to the north coast.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 28, 2009, 11:25:31 PM
HighwayMaster, never in a million years would the QEW be renamed.  There is just way too much history in that designation.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: TheStranger on December 29, 2009, 01:05:30 AM


Umm... why?

A lot of them are numbered as such because they follow a similar route of a corresponding number.  For example, highway 410 follows highway 10, and thus it is named as such.

It seems that in some of the hypotheticals posed in that post (i.e. 469), it's an attempt at extending the current numbering system on all 400-series routes - but most of the 400 routes below 410 were created or planned in sequential order in the 1960s, thus their lack of correspondence to the parallel corridor's number (400, 401, 403).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 20, 2010, 06:03:48 PM
Some new photos from Onthighways.com

407:
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_59_east_lg.jpg)

410 extension:

Open:
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_21-5_north.jpg)

Under construction:
(http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_20_Nov09_north.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on January 20, 2010, 07:33:49 PM
Hal, do you have permission from Scott (the person that runs onthighways.com) to be hot linking his pictures here?

If not, I would recommend uploading them to Photobucket and still give him credit here.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on February 17, 2010, 06:10:53 PM
Hal, do you have permission from Scott (the person that runs onthighways.com) to be hot linking his pictures here?

If not, I would recommend uploading them to Photobucket and still give him credit here.

Sorry to bump this topic, but we have already gone through this discussion, located here (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=417.msg9855#msg9855) (scroll down after my post to see dtp's final decision).

Also, just to add, hal's photobucket space is used up.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on March 31, 2010, 07:22:22 PM
Here's a neat overview of Highway 407: Canada's only electronic toll highway.

(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9484/15hwy40703.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 06, 2010, 12:49:17 AM
HOV lane design in Ontario

Note the paved shoulder and the stripped buffer zone.  The appearance of these lanes is very different compared to elsewhere in Canada and the United States.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5485/hovlane.jpg)

-If you drive a vehicle with a "Green" Ontario license plate you can drive in HOV lanes with no occupants.
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/ontario-green-license-plate-for-hybrids-and-evs_100232204_s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mightyace on April 06, 2010, 04:47:05 PM
-If you drive a vehicle with a "Green" Ontario license plate you can drive in HOV lanes with no occupants.

I assume that you mean no additional occupants or no passengers.

A car with no occupants, even a green one, would be extremely dangerous.  :sombrero:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on April 06, 2010, 08:44:47 PM
Here's a neat overview of Highway 407: Canada's only electronic toll highway.

Question on that photo - Is the right of way, and are the bridges, designed to accommodate dual outer carriageways based on future traffic volumes?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Bickendan on April 07, 2010, 01:06:23 AM
-If you drive a vehicle with a "Green" Ontario license plate you can drive in HOV lanes with no occupants.

I assume that you mean no additional occupants or no passengers.

A car with no occupants, even a green one, would be extremely dangerous.  :sombrero:
No no -- no occupants whatsoever. Cars are expected to get jobs and support themselves these days, haven't you heard? They've got to drive themselves to work somehow.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mightyace on April 07, 2010, 02:38:15 AM
-If you drive a vehicle with a "Green" Ontario license plate you can drive in HOV lanes with no occupants.

I assume that you mean no additional occupants or no passengers.

A car with no occupants, even a green one, would be extremely dangerous.  :sombrero:
No no -- no occupants whatsoever. Cars are expected to get jobs and support themselves these days, haven't you heard? They've got to drive themselves to work somehow.

Now, if my car would only get a good enough job, maybe I wouldn't have to.  :sombrero:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on April 07, 2010, 03:14:27 AM
HOV lane design in Ontario

Note the paved shoulder and the stripped buffer zone.  The appearance of these lanes is very different compared to elsewhere in Canada and the United States.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5485/hovlane.jpg)

That picture would be of King's Highway 403 heading Eastbound into Toronto just after the Erin Mills Parkway Interchange (Exit #112), correct? ;)  I remember every part of 403 since I traveled on it more than 100 times. :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Truvelo on April 07, 2010, 10:22:50 AM
Here's a neat overview of Highway 407: Canada's only electronic toll highway.

Question on that photo - Is the right of way, and are the bridges, designed to accommodate dual outer carriageways based on future traffic volumes?

Judging by the traffic in the picture I don't think widening will be necessary. In fact a two lane suburban street would handle those traffic levels well enough :colorful:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 07, 2010, 11:09:04 AM
You're right, no additional occupants :P.

Yes, you need to wait for a break in the buffer zone in order to get in and out of the HOV lane.  (Legally, that is  :-P)

Example of a break in the buffer zone:
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5677/60887077.png)

Transition from buffer zone to transition zone:
(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/1218/dddy.png)



Oh and I think the 407 has been designed to be built to a 10 or 12 lane freeway (maximum).  I don't think any extra carriageways will be added, just more lanes.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 10, 2010, 02:37:14 PM
My vision of London roads (That I made in paint lol)

Highway 402 would go straight, north of the city (as originally planned) instead of curving south west of the city.

Red is what should go in. Dotted red are alternate routes and possible new routes. The current 402 route has been scribbled out.
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4931/clipboard02800x600.jpg)

Part of the "Smartmoves London" 2030 Master Plan discussion:
http://www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Transportation_Planning/default.htm (http://www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Transportation_Planning/default.htm)

Full resolution map here:
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2176/clipboard02s.png (http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2176/clipboard02s.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on April 10, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
Yeah London's freeway network is REALLY underdeveloped for a city its size. However more locally, Ontario is getting opinions on our third section of four lane highway.. this means that we should see a complete four lane highway on highway 11/17 sometime before 2050 (sounds long but we've needed one since 1970). Also construction starts on our first ever freeway/interchange this summer!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 12, 2010, 11:49:35 AM
Yeah London's freeway network is REALLY underdeveloped for a city its size

True, and London can no longer get a freeway to serve local traffic.  That time has come and gone.

This is just a vision of mine of where the 402 should have gone. In fact, the 402 was supposed to go through the city, not around it, but the city rejected all freeway plans. Most politicians consider London a small town, when in reality we're actually a pretty sizable city and the need for a freeway to service local traffic was always there.

There's also a urban growth boundary which does not extend to the 400-series (just a small portion along the 401 that has already been developed)
(http://webmap.london.ca/MapServer/Temp/col_17959838_0.gif)

Regarding my freeway plan, there's a rumor that the MTO plans to extend the 403 from the 401 to connect to the 402 west of London. This will help reduce congestion on the 401 between the 402 and 403 and provide connections for areas north of London. Adding a freeway in west London and finishing the Veteran's Memorial Parkway will complete London's system, but the goal of these roads serving local traffic will not be reached.

Map of proposed routes for southern Ontario:
-Note the amount of proposed routes around London.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Expressway-network-future.png/800px-Expressway-network-future.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Truvelo on April 12, 2010, 02:14:04 PM
I've only driven around London on one occasion and that was to stay with friends at Mount Brydges. On that occasion the route of 402 was of great help. If 402 had gone round the north of London it would have meant using surface roads.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 13, 2010, 10:23:42 AM
I've only driven around London on one occasion and that was to stay with friends at Mount Brydges. On that occasion the route of 402 was of great help. If 402 had gone round the north of London it would have meant using surface roads.

Well of course it makes zero sense to rip out that part of highway that I scribbled out.  Remember that's just a vision and should not be taken literally, it's just there to make you think.  The 402 will stay where it is, its the 403 that now needs to be extended in order to make this system a reality (which I don't think will ever happen).
Title: MOVED: Ontario's Highways - Widenings
Post by: Alps on April 14, 2010, 10:46:16 PM
The latest post (desired widenings) was moved to Fictional Highways (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20) because it's a wish list.  See link below:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0 (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 15, 2010, 10:23:16 AM
The latest post (desired widenings) was moved to Fictional Highways (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20) because it's a wish list.  See link below:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0 (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0)

Hmm, I don't understand why you moved it, as a lot of these projects are planned to be completed in the next 20 years.  It's not really fiction, its going to be reality.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on April 15, 2010, 10:17:19 PM
The latest post (desired widenings) was moved to Fictional Highways (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20) because it's a wish list.  See link below:

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0 (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2690.0)

Hmm, I don't understand why you moved it, as a lot of these projects are planned to be completed in the next 20 years.  It's not really fiction, its going to be reality.
Desired widenings is different from planned widenings.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Hellfighter on April 16, 2010, 04:15:21 PM
How much are the tolls on the 407?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: un1 on April 16, 2010, 04:25:14 PM
How much are the tolls on the 407?

About 21.35¢/km for an average car but instead of copying the whole list you can see it here (http://www.407etr.com/about/custserv_fees.asp).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 16, 2010, 06:28:27 PM
How much are the tolls on the 407?

I got a bill of $53.01 traveling from the eastern terminus (Brock Road) to the 400 stack interchange.

I'll never use it again.  I'll just take the world's busiest highway as an alternative.  Time is money I guess.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mightyace on April 16, 2010, 06:45:59 PM
About 21.35¢/km for an average car but instead of copying the whole list you can see it here (http://www.407etr.com/about/custserv_fees.asp).

On the page it says:
Quote
IMPORTANT: a $50.00 FLAT TOLL CHARGE PER TRIP is billed to any light vehicles without a transponder
  whose rear licence plate is not visible to, or recognizable by our toll system.

If they can see or read the rear license plate, how on earth are they going to find you to charge you the $50.00 penalty?  :confused:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mightyace on April 16, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
I got a bill of $53.01 traveling from the eastern terminus (Brock Road) to the 400 stack interchange.

How on earth did they figure that out?  Their website say the trip you took is $12.12 one-way during peak hours plus a $2.50 fee per billing period.

IMHO It looks like you may have been ripped off.

EDIT:
And their website is dain-bramaged.  Their interactive maps works in IE but not Firefox even though I have the latest version of the flash plug in for each.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 22, 2010, 11:31:21 AM
Here's something a little different:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Veterans_Memorial_Parkway%2C_London%2C_Ontario.jpg/800px-Veterans_Memorial_Parkway%2C_London%2C_Ontario.jpg)

That's the Veterans Memorial Parkway, a 4 lane at-grade expressway in London.  The road used to be two lanes and clogged with traffic for a long time.  The lack of funding during the upgrade meant interchanges were not built and thus intersections remained.  If you drive on it you'll see tons of skid marks on the road due to cars slamming on the breaks when a light turns red.  It sucks, but it is better than it used to be.

Because today is Earth Day, a massive tree-planting project is underway along the route to "put more park in the parkway".

This route has also had 3 different names over the years (Highway 100, Airport Road, and the Veterans Memorial Parkway).  I guess they couldn't make up their mind.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on April 29, 2010, 09:35:32 PM
Does anyone know about Onthighways.com?  I look every week or so, and the site is dead, but canhighways.com is still up.  I miss my Ontario Highway news. 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on April 29, 2010, 11:37:31 PM
Does anyone know about Onthighways.com?  I look every week or so, and the site is dead, but canhighways.com is still up.  I miss my Ontario Highway news. 

See: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ontroads/message/17894
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on April 30, 2010, 11:26:18 AM
I hope the broken links on CanHighways.com will be fixed.  Bookmarked the page just in case though.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: joseph1723 on April 30, 2010, 02:51:01 PM
Here's another link to Onthighways.com I found that also works:

http://onthighw.dot5hosting.com/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Hellfighter on May 07, 2010, 04:38:00 PM
Anyone know the progress on the northern expansion of the 400?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on May 07, 2010, 09:17:29 PM
Thanks rickmastfan67!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: DanTheMan414 on May 09, 2010, 01:23:38 AM
Does anyone know about Onthighways.com?  I look every week or so, and the site is dead, but canhighways.com is still up.  I miss my Ontario Highway news.  

Specifically, here's the new URL for OntHighways:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/

All of the corresponding links on CanHighways.com to pages on OntHighways have been updated to reflect this, too.  
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on May 09, 2010, 04:11:25 PM
Went to Toronto for a day trip yesterday from London. It was a crappy day but I got some pictures. I thought I may as well share them here with you.

Hilly section
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Highway_401_Dorchester_Swamp.jpg/800px-Highway_401_Dorchester_Swamp.jpg)

Construction between Woodstock and Kitchener, widening the highway from 4 to 6 lanes:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/401_construction_4-6_lanes.jpg/800px-401_construction_4-6_lanes.jpg)

Pedestrian overpass in Kitchener. Further downhill is the bridge over the Grand River which is visible in this photo.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Highway_401_Grand_River.jpg/800px-Highway_401_Grand_River.jpg)

On Highway 427 now heading to the Gardiner Expressway.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/427_to_Gardiner-QEW.jpg/800px-427_to_Gardiner-QEW.jpg)

Looking at the CN Tower as we exit the Gardiner onto Spadina Avenue.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Gardiner_Expressway_Downtown_Toronto.jpg/800px-Gardiner_Expressway_Downtown_Toronto.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 10, 2010, 07:12:29 PM
haljackey, can you please compress your photos some before posting them here in a thread?

4MB+ is still a killer even with people having broadband when you have to try to load 9 different ones at the same time.

Also, it makes some browsers stutter really badly when you have use javascript to resize 3000x2000 or bigger pictures.

Bigger isn't always better.  So, please consider resizing your pictures manually to the 800 width limit before you upload so you can attach them to a forum.  People around the world will appreciate it.

Remember, you can always add a link to the higher-res version below the smaller version.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on May 10, 2010, 07:50:21 PM
haljackey, can you please compress your photos some before posting them here in a thread?

Gah! I thought the site automatically compressed the images to 800px. Guess it simply squeezes the images to 800 but keeps the original filesize.

Thanks for catching that. I did some work with the post above, cropping and resizing the photos.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 10, 2010, 08:14:13 PM
Gah! I thought the site automatically compressed the images to 800px.

no, alas.  it would be cool if there was some kind of protocol that asked the server to do that, but when you do "width=X" (or its HTML equivalent in the img tag) it does the resize on the browser side.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: J N Winkler on May 12, 2010, 05:45:07 AM
no, alas.  it would be cool if there was some kind of protocol that asked the server to do that, but when you do "width=X" (or its HTML equivalent in the img tag) it does the resize on the browser side.

I have blocked at least one person's avatar for this reason--the board itself has fairly strict size requirements for local avatars, but they don't apply to avatars hosted elsewhere and I want easy page loads.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: xcellntbuy on May 12, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
I have not been to Toronto or traveled the Gardiner Expressway since 1983.  I see from the downtown photos that the old flat yellow streetlights have been replaced.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on May 12, 2010, 11:19:50 AM
I have not been to Toronto or traveled the Gardiner Expressway since 1983.  I see from the downtown photos that the old flat yellow streetlights have been replaced.

Maybe not, but the scenery has sure changed. All kinds of new condominium towers have been built very close to the elevated highway.

It may not look like it in that shot, but the Gardiner isn't in the best shape. The thing looks like crap from the surface. There's been talk of demolishing it because maintaining it is getting expensive and it's an eyesore, cutting off the waterfront from downtown (sort of like wrong side of the tracks). If it is demolished, it would be replaced with a 8 or 10 lane landscaped boulevard with pedestrian overpasses.

I think the best alternative is to move it underground. Yes, I know Boston's Big Dig went way overbudget, but we can learn from those mistakes. In addition, only the elevated section would need to be tunneled which is not nearly as the one in Boston.

There have been all sorts of other suggestions, such as adding another "green" deck above the expressway with bike paths, tennis courts and whatnot. An even more extreme vision is to build a viaduct which would add to the Toronto skyline but would be very pricey.

Examples:
(http://ecoki.com/wp-content/uploads/gardiner-expressway.jpg)

(http://torontoist.com/attachments/BrendaPetroff/20090623gardiner01.jpg)

(http://www.bricoleurbanism.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/1A_Parliament_St_and_Waterfront_Blvd-e.jpg)

(http://www.toviaduct.com/inside/image010.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Truvelo on May 12, 2010, 11:43:37 AM
I think in all probability the two most likely options are to replace it with a surface boulevard or just leave it as it is. A tunnel is too expensive, especially in the current shaky economic conditions. A jungle on top of the existing deck will also be expensive and won't provide any additional capacity so value for money is poor.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on May 12, 2010, 02:32:45 PM
If Toronto can't get Transit City fully funded, how could rebuilding/demolishing/replacing the Gardiner occur?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on May 30, 2010, 10:13:40 PM
Here's something new:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Orange_Lane_Markings.jpg/800px-Orange_Lane_Markings.jpg)

Ontario now uses florescent orange lane markings in construction zones along the 400-series and other major highways. I believe the first major use of this was last year. It has received a ton of positive feedback from motorists and construction workers alike, because it makes drivers more aware that they are in a construction zone, making it safer.

Ontario is the first place in North America to use this. It is used all over Europe, however some countries use yellow markings instead.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: xcellntbuy on May 31, 2010, 11:44:13 AM
Excellent idea. :clap:

The use of fluorescent orange markings on south Florida's highways would be a VERY welcome change, especially as we have entered wet season.  It can be mighty difficult to see dotted lines driving in our notoriously heavy rainstorms.

Let's hope this type of positive sight-enhancement will work its way into the USA.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 31, 2010, 10:43:24 PM
Excellent idea. :clap:

The use of fluorescent orange markings on south Florida's highways would be a VERY welcome change, especially as we have entered wet season.  It can be mighty difficult to see dotted lines driving in our notoriously heavy rainstorms.

Let's hope this type of positive sight-enhancement will work its way into the USA.

If it does, I would only think it would show up for construction zones.  Just like you see in the picture at the King's Highway 427/QEW interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on June 15, 2010, 10:59:08 AM
Here's an interesting chart I found comparing various interchange types for the Highway 407 extension.

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/303/clipboard08m.png)

There's good news and bad news about the 407 extension. The good news is that it will be 100% controlled by the province (unlike the rest of the toll highway) and that the EA for the extension has been approved. The bad news is that only about half of the proposed extension is going to get built. Perhaps in the future the final part of the highway will be built linking it to Highways 35 and 115 east of Oshawa on the eastern fringe of the Greater Toronto Area.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 02, 2010, 10:29:36 PM
Traveled to the Falls for Canada Day, took some pics on the way.

Looking at Highway 401 westbound from Highbury Avenue in London.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4755297346_c297c98ac7_b.jpg)

Heading onto Highway 401 eastbound from Highbury Avenue
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4754810849_259238bd85_b.jpg)

The famous "hilly" segments of the 401 between London and Ingersoll
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4755311398_551c0320c2_b.jpg)

On Highway 403 now near the Grand River.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4754660361_e7f2b83126_b.jpg)

Looking at the Niagara bound Queen Elizabeth Way from the Red Hill Valley Parkway interchange in Hamilton.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4755303806_3696c7ee2b_b.jpg)

Highway 420's expressway portion in Niagara Falls.
-This is a rare exception for the 400-Series highways. Nearly all segments are freeways.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4754666503_d0a87be785_b.jpg)

Highway 420's terminus at Falls Avenue, near the Rainbow Bridge crossing to the USA.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4755309200_c691deff74_b.jpg)

Anyways hope you enjoyed the pics! It's always a fun time in Niagara Falls on Canada Day!  :nod:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on July 03, 2010, 06:51:17 AM
Highway 420's expressway portion in Niagara Falls.
-This is a rare exception for the 400-Series highways. Nearly all segments are freeways.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4754666503_d0a87be785_b.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4754666503_d0a87be785_b.jpg)

Highway 420's terminus at Falls Avenue, near the Rainbow Bridge crossing to the USA.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4755309200_c691deff74_b.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4755309200_c691deff74_b.jpg)

I assume you didn't notice that Niagara Region 420 shield (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096087,-79.085265&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096086,-79.085112&panoid=-iHVLGMZFmDWm1_o6tQe5A&cbp=12,134.62,,2,0.31) @ the intersection of {420} and \102/ (Stanley Ave) or the {420} ENDS BGS (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096267,-79.091467&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096264,-79.091347&panoid=_mAbTmWECQ2PE3XBArTCEg&cbp=12,130.72,,2,-8.23) on the Portage Rd overpass?  King's Highway 420 now officially ends at that intersection.  There is no longer a connecting link connecting it to the Rainbow Bridge.  It's been like this for a few years now.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 03, 2010, 07:54:59 PM
I assume you didn't notice that Niagara Region 420 shield (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096087,-79.085265&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096086,-79.085112&panoid=-iHVLGMZFmDWm1_o6tQe5A&cbp=12,134.62,,2,0.31) @ the intersection of {420} and \102/ (Stanley Ave) or the {420} ENDS BGS (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096267,-79.091467&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096264,-79.091347&panoid=_mAbTmWECQ2PE3XBArTCEg&cbp=12,130.72,,2,-8.23) on the Portage Rd overpass?  King's Highway 420 now officially ends at that intersection.  There is no longer a connecting link connecting it to the Rainbow Bridge.  It's been like this for a few years now.

I looked into it. Turns out Highway 420 turns into Regional Road 420 past Stanley Ave.

Also, a lot of the 420 shields are stolen because of 420 (April 20th), lol!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mgk920 on July 04, 2010, 12:07:52 AM
I assume you didn't notice that Niagara Region 420 shield (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096087,-79.085265&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096086,-79.085112&panoid=-iHVLGMZFmDWm1_o6tQe5A&cbp=12,134.62,,2,0.31) @ the intersection of {420} and \102/ (Stanley Ave) or the {420} ENDS BGS (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.096267,-79.091467&spn=0,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.096264,-79.091347&panoid=_mAbTmWECQ2PE3XBArTCEg&cbp=12,130.72,,2,-8.23) on the Portage Rd overpass?  King's Highway 420 now officially ends at that intersection.  There is no longer a connecting link connecting it to the Rainbow Bridge.  It's been like this for a few years now.

I looked into it. Turns out Highway 420 turns into Regional Road 420 past Stanley Ave.

Also, a lot of the 420 shields are stolen because of 420 (April 20th), lol!

Actually, '420' is lingo in some USA police agencies for pot possession.

 :meh:

 :spin:

Mike
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on July 04, 2010, 02:11:16 AM
Oh, and once again Hal, I just noticed this, but try to use images in the forum that are resized to 800 width on your end instead of trying to use the browser to resize them via JavaScript. ;)  Just look at the top of this page. ;)  If there is a 800 width already version on your Flicker page, use that instead of the 1024 version's link which the browser has to resize and makes it stutter going over the pictures.  Just a friendly reminder on that. ;)

(http://www.aaroads.com/forum/Smileys/default/winking0006.gif)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 08, 2010, 10:40:36 AM
I'll have to remember that. I keep seeming to think the site resizes them, but it simply compresses the images to 800 pixels wide.

Here's a video I made showing some of the highways in London, Ontario: the Highbury Extenstion, Highway 401 and Highway 402.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFXvbx8bnTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFXvbx8bnTE)

Hope you enjoy it!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 15, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
Actually, '420' is lingo in some USA police agencies for pot possession.

 :meh:

Nope, 420 has nothing to do with cops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29)
It's one of the most pervasive urban myths in our culture.
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/420.asp (http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/420.asp)

That's right a group of high school stoners got the whole world to snicker over what amounts to a random number.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on August 06, 2010, 10:59:45 AM
Some new photos of Highway 401 I took on a trip from London to Windsor.

6 lanes and a concrete surface. To my knowledge, this is the only part of Highway 401 that is concrete. I hate concrete as it is bumpy, but the drive was exceptionally smooth compared to the US Interstates.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img819/9426/dsc00510s.jpg)

The 401 is being reconstructed in Windsor in preparation for the Windsor-Essex Parkway.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img717/6364/dsc00516ij.jpg)

(http://a.imageshack.us/img203/6472/48602311353f3a6d300cb80.jpg)

(http://a.imageshack.us/img830/4075/486015258102fb6cc9c9b.jpg)

One of the new ONroute service centres on the 400-Series. This one is near Tilbury.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img819/4759/dsc00507v.jpg)


...And that's it for now. Most of the drive between Windsor and London is pretty boring, and drivers seem to lose focus here and there. Thus, accidents happen here regularly.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: The Premier on August 06, 2010, 03:18:03 PM
Is it standard in Ontario not to have exit tabs on new signs, especially when it's an exit only like this:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img819/9426/dsc00510s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Bickendan on August 06, 2010, 05:56:45 PM
(http://a.imageshack.us/img203/6472/48602311353f3a6d300cb80.jpg)
According to this sign, if you speak English, you'll take the bridge to the US. If you speak French, you'll end up in the European Union! :pan:

(E.U. = Etats Unis in French)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cu2010 on August 06, 2010, 07:29:39 PM
Is it standard in Ontario not to have exit tabs on new signs, especially when it's an exit only like this:

Ontario typically only puts the exit tab on the advance guide signage; the signs at the actual exit typically do not have tabs.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 06, 2010, 07:38:12 PM
Is it standard in Ontario not to have exit tabs on new signs, especially when it's an exit only like this:

Ontario typically only puts the exit tab on the advance guide signage; the signs at the actual exit typically do not have tabs.

That's kinda stupid if you ask me.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on August 06, 2010, 08:00:33 PM
I wrote to the Ontario Ministry of Transportation about the lack of exit tabs.  I received a response that went along lines of saying that most people don't have a problem with the lack of exit tabs, it really bothers me though.  I have seen some exit tabs (in photos) up along Highway 400 and the 404. 

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: joseph1723 on August 07, 2010, 02:01:07 AM
Is it standard in Ontario not to have exit tabs on new signs, especially when it's an exit only like this:

Ontario typically only puts the exit tab on the advance guide signage; the signs at the actual exit typically do not have tabs.

Yep, Ontario usually only posts exit tabs on advanced signs but I've seen some advanced signs that were also missing exit tabs too. Ontario also didn't post exit tabs even on advanced signs when the BGS was mounted on a cantilever structure until recently when they started cramming it on the upper right corner of the BGS:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img576/9520/p7250203.jpg)

I've only seen a few exit signs in Ontario that had tabs but they were usually ones that didn't have a advanced sign because the ramp was too close to another interchange.

I like seeing exit tabs being placed on exit signage but I also remember reading that apparently most drivers in Ontario don't know what the exit tab means of something like that so I guess that's why MTO dosen't bother putting up exit tabs on exit signage.



Here's a couple of pics showing some new lane markings on Highway 401 to better notify drivers that they're in a exit only lane and to make changing lanes right before the gore illegal:

New arrows on the pavement to mark the exit only lane and the optional lane:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img707/3627/p7250211.jpg)

New lane striping with a solid white line on the right and a dashed line on the left to only allow drivers to enter the exit only lane but not exit at the last moment:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img828/4782/p7250213.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on August 08, 2010, 08:17:23 PM
By exit tab, do you mean advance signage? If not, please enlighten me.

(I still have a lot when it comes to road terminology it seems lol)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on August 08, 2010, 09:42:40 PM
By exit tab, do you mean advance signage? If not, please enlighten me.

(I still have a lot when it comes to road terminology it seems lol)

A exit tab is the tab on top of a Big Green Sign that shows something along the lines of EXIT XX.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: joseph1723 on August 08, 2010, 10:46:34 PM
By exit tab, do you mean advance signage? If not, please enlighten me.

(I still have a lot when it comes to road terminology it seems lol)

A exit tab is the tab on top of a Big Green Sign that shows something along the lines of EXIT XX.

Yep the exit tabs in Ontario are also tabs mounted on top of the BGS that's show the exit # on it, the ones here don't have EXIT on them though.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Tom on September 26, 2010, 08:21:34 PM
Here's a nice webpage I discovered about heritage bridges in Ontario, Canada:
http://www.historicbridges.org/map_ont.htm :coffee:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 16, 2011, 08:48:08 AM
These are some photos I took of a new section of Ontario's Highway 11 back in August.

I have taken more recent photos then this, however I haven't put them online yet.  This is a section of new four lane freeway that opened to traffic in September.  It was opened as part of a project to four-lane Highway 11 between Barrie and North Bay.  This project is on track to be substantially complete next year.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_dv_288_north_Aug11.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_288_south_Aug11.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_288_north_Aug11_t.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_289_south_Aug11.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_289_north_Aug11.jpg)

I post larger versions on my website, all of these photos came from here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/hwy11_Sundridge.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/hwy11_Sundridge.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on October 17, 2011, 09:54:31 PM
Does anyone have a photo of the "Allow 2 chevrons between cars" (or whatever the wording was) signs on Hwy 401? And when were they removed? I remember seeing those in the early 2000's, and there were only a handful of actual chevrons left on the pavement when I came back last weekend.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 17, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
^ I don't unfortunately.  It's a shame, the signs in Durham Region were still standing when I started taking highway photos all of those years ago, but by the time it finally occurred to me to take a photo of one of those signs, they had already been removed.

What brought you through Ontario?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on October 18, 2011, 07:37:29 PM
A friend of mine had a tournament in Scarborough, and wanted to split the gas and motel room, so I joined him. I did bring my camera, but most of my shots are rather blurry due to the rain and sunset. Also took the occasion to clinch a few roads in the GTA.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 19, 2011, 11:14:19 PM
^ I am sorry that your trip to Toronto included Scarborough.  You probably didn't notice, but Toronto really is a nice City. :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on October 20, 2011, 08:53:22 PM
Very. I took the occasion to clinch the Gardiner and Don Valley Pkwy. Didn't mind the traffic jam, was too busy staring at stuff like the CN Tower. I also worked on getting the subway partly clinched. I enjoyed my time there. I'll probably aim for the Niagara region next time.

The eastern portions of the 401 (between Ajax and Gananoque, I'd say) still has a lot of relatively old signs. It was a long but cool drive.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 21, 2011, 05:50:56 PM
The MTO called a contract to replace some of the guide signage along the 401 in Eastern Ontario.  I have no idea which signs or how many, but I suspect some more of the old angled edge signs will be replaced.

Niagara is a neat part of Ontario.  Some of Ontario's more interesting urban roads are in both Hamilton and Niagara.  The Falls themselves are cool, but the area that surrounds them is a pretty big tourist trap.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on January 24, 2013, 08:02:01 AM
Some new Windsor Essex Parkway photos.  This is the project that will link Hwy 401 to a new downriver bridge across the Detroit River.  I found this on another forum that I read, so they aren't mine.

source:http://www.flickr.com/photos/windsordi/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/windsordi/)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8394169406_ad0fc5c5aa_h.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8394168178_f646204c68_h.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8394166792_53b7b4dcbb_h.jpg)



Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on January 25, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
I drove through this yesterday but unfortunately my windows were too dirty for good views.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on February 11, 2013, 11:14:48 AM
The Windsor - Essex Pkwy has been renamed  Rt. Hon. (Right Honourable) Herb Gray  Pkwy.  Here is an Excellent flicker page of the ongoing construction. http://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway)
Title: Re: Ontario\'s Highways
Post by: amroad17 on February 14, 2013, 02:15:41 AM
So ON 401 will follow ON 3/Huron Church Road to EC Row Expy west past its end and cross the Detroit River to I-75 in the Detroit southern suburbs?  THAT would save a lot of time crossing into Canada (or vice versa) than dealing with the Ambassador Bridge crossing.

BTW, will this new pkwy be designated ON 401?

Post Merge: February 14, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
Before writing, I really should look at particular subjects like this on Wikipedia, where I can have questions in my prior post answered. :banghead:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on February 14, 2013, 11:32:58 AM
So ON 401 will follow ON 3/Huron Church Road to EC Row Expy west past its end and cross the Detroit River to I-75 in the Detroit southern suburbs?  THAT would save a lot of time crossing into Canada (or vice versa) than dealing with the Ambassador Bridge crossing.

BTW, will this new pkwy be designated ON 401?

Yes it will be posted as ON-401. The parkway is from ON-401/3 jct to border. As for tolls, they will be collected on the Ontario side just past the customs plaza for both directions.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: burneraccount on February 14, 2013, 02:35:50 PM
That's a lot of exit number tabs they have to change!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on February 14, 2013, 03:00:14 PM
They won't have to change any.  ON 401 presently starts its "mileage" (and hence exit numbers) with 13 being the end at ON 3.  They'll just extend the numbers backwards from that point.  There's enough room to absorb the length of the parkway, which is roughly 11-12 km long.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on February 23, 2013, 12:00:52 PM
They won't have to change any.  ON 401 presently starts its "mileage" (and hence exit numbers) with 13 being the end at ON 3.  They'll just extend the numbers backwards from that point.  There's enough room to absorb the length of the parkway, which is roughly 11-12 km long.

Correct. The 401 was always planned to be connected to a border crossing so must have they started the KM markings at the current start of the highway to fit it in.
-Or, this could have been put in during the changeover from imperial to metric measurements.

Without a new border crossing, this will be a highway to nowhere. Hope it gets underway soon.

The Daily Show did a funny sketch about the new border crossing last month: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-9-2013/bridge-to-canada
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 23, 2013, 07:51:28 PM
A couple of new photos of Ontario highways:

These photos are from the former Hwy 511 in eastern Ontario.  This is at the Madawaska River, which is one of the principle rivers in eastern Ontario:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/511_cl_62-9_north.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/511_structure_63_east.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/511_cl_63_south.jpg)

Hwy 41's Madawaska River crossing, further upstream:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_40-49_images/41_cl_Madawaska.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_40-49_images/41_structure_Madawaska.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 27, 2013, 01:16:58 PM
A couple more photos.  These are from a scenic stretch of Hwy 522 (which is generally not that scenic of a highway) in Central Ontario:

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/522_cl_26-5_east.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/522_cl_26-7_east.jpg)

This old rounded corner sign likely dates back to the completion of the 1970s era Ess Narrows Bridge
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/522_sign_EssNarrows.jpg)

Ess Narrows:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/522_cl_27-1_west.jpg)

More and larger:
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/Hwy522_images.htm (http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/secondary/hwy_500-549_images/Hwy522_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 11, 2013, 11:09:07 PM
Some new Ontario Highway photos, this time from Highway 7A, a scenic highway that runs through pleasant hills in Central Ontario, northeast of Toronto.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7A_cl_0-2_west.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7A_cl_19_east_Jul12.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7A_cl_29_east.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7A_sign_BethanyDist.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7A_cl_36_east_Jun12.jpg)

If you'd ever like to see more of Hwy 7A then anybody could ever care to see, you can do so here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7A_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7A_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on March 22, 2013, 03:15:02 AM
Here's a must-see video I shot of Highway 407-ETR back in 1995 when it was under construction. Enjoy!

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 09, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
A small section of Hwy 28 is being realigned just east of Lakefield, ON.  This realignment will eliminate the turn at Peterborough Road 29 (former Highway 28 South) and by-passes a fairly tight reversing curve.  The new alignment is scheduled to be open by the fall.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_20-29_images/28_realignment.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on April 11, 2013, 11:37:02 AM
Still no responses to my vid. Sigh.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 11, 2013, 12:49:48 PM
^ I enjoyed your video.

It is not uncommon not to get responses after posting things on the interweb.  For example, nobody responded to any of the photos I posted above your video on the last page.  I think people see the content and probably enjoy looking at different photos and videos, but don't necessarily have anything to say about it after consuming the media.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 11, 2013, 11:28:42 PM
The new Detroit River International Crossing has gotten presidential approval: http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/04/11/historic-moment-as-dric-bridge-gets-long-awaited-u-s-presidential-permit/

Construction is hoped to start just as the 401 extension winds down. Hopefully there are no more delays but as we all know another curveball could come at any time... probably from Matty Moroun.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on April 12, 2013, 10:32:57 AM
^ I enjoyed your video.

It is not uncommon not to get responses after posting things on the interweb.  For example, nobody responded to any of the photos I posted above your video on the last page.  I think people see the content and probably enjoy looking at different photos and videos, but don't necessarily have anything to say about it after consuming the media.

True, but you'd think something like a vid of the initial 407 construction certainly would, especially when it's been posted on four sites, including You Tube. None have replies.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on April 12, 2013, 10:50:51 AM
True, but you'd think something like a vid of the initial 407 construction certainly would, especially when it's been posted on four sites, including You Tube. None have replies.

if you really want, I can go over to YouTube and call you "LOL U OHMO", in line with their usual comment pattern.  it's probably not the sort of reaction you are going for.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 14, 2013, 10:15:51 PM
A few photos of Hwy 401 in the Greater Toronto Area

Looking both west and east from the Hurontario Street overpass.  Some of the high mast light standards in the median of the highway have been erected:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_342_west_Apr13_forum.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_342_east_Apr13_forum.jpg)

The western side of the new Keele Street overpass.  The structure at Keele Street needs to be replaced due to the construction of a new hospital adjacent to MTO's Downsview Complex:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_structure_Dufferin_new.jpg)

The Don Valley Parkway was closed this weekend for maintenance:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_DVP_closed.jpg)

Westerly view through Oshawa, the sound barriers are being replaced through the city:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_417-5_west_Apr13.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_417-5_east_Apr13.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 16, 2013, 09:37:05 AM
GTA West Freeway:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/GTA_West.jpg)
A third loop around the western edge of Toronto's suburbs.  Construction is far from immediate.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: sa230e on April 22, 2013, 01:45:30 AM
Here's a video I shot of the ongoing construction of the Herb Gray Parkway here in Windsor. I post on other forums but I'm new here. I thought people here might enjoy them as well. I try make a new one every time there's been a major accomplishment in the construction.

EDIT: Can't get embedding to work so here's the link:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 12, 2013, 07:47:39 AM
sa230e, I just fixed your post so that your video would be embedded. ;)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 28, 2013, 12:57:26 AM
A few new photos.  These photos are of a new bridge over the future eastern extension of Highway 407:

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/407/7_407_cons_May13_9.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/407/7_407_cons_May13_2.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/407/7_407_cons_May13_5.jpg)

More:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_Pickering_images.htm#May13 (http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_Pickering_images.htm#May13)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on May 30, 2013, 11:00:24 PM
I was watching the evening news when I saw this story http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/the-toll-of-two-municipalities-1.1304060 (http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/the-toll-of-two-municipalities-1.1304060)  The plan is not to twin OC-174 (old ON-17) to freeway, but to simply put a toll booth or electronic toll device at the intersection of OC-174 and Canaan Rd.  Which is also the border of United counties of Prescott - Russell and Regional Municipality of Ottawa - Carleton.  Not sure how this one is going to play out.  If the CTV Ottawa Web Poll is any indication, it won't.  The other opinion, is to have OC-174 from the Border of Prescott - Russell and ON-417/174 split, Uploaded back to the province.  This route of the former Trans-Can through the lower Ottawa Valley, is a major commuter and recreational artery.  The community of Rockland is a fast booming bedroom community, struggling to maintain and improve the roads, as well as dealing with the influx of Ottawa residence fleeing for the quite and tranquility that is Prescott - Russell.

This will be one to monitor.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 01, 2013, 08:39:19 AM
The City of Ottawa has been trying to get the province to assume responsibility for old Highway 17 for a number of years now.

There were stories in the newspaper last year about Ottawa Road 174's deteriorating condition and how the city felt it unfair that they now had to pay to reconstruct a road that was built by the province 50 years ago.

This was the closest link I could find to those articles:
http://www.tac-atc.ca/english/annualconference/tac2012/docs/session10/smith.pdf
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on June 08, 2013, 05:20:10 PM
Made a new timelapse driving video showing the Conestoga Parkway in Kitchener/Waterloo.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on June 10, 2013, 11:42:31 AM
Timelapse driving video of the what's often referred to as the world's busiest truck route



Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on June 10, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
Interesting article in the Ottawa Sun. Looks like opposition is growing on the Kettle Island interprovincial bridge, an interesting alternative is that a tunnel is constructed connecting ON 417 with the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge and A-5.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/06/05/councillors-want-tunnel-not-bridge

We'll see if it actually happens.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: xcellntbuy on June 10, 2013, 05:36:31 PM
Excellent video.  The Ontario provincial government (Quebec, too) really should think about raising the speed limit to 120 km/h on freeways like Ontario 401.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 12, 2013, 07:33:58 PM
I uploaded a few new pictures of the most recently completed section of Hwy 69 south of Sudbury tonight:

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69N_cl_Scurvesouth_south_Aug12.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69N_cl_Lovering_south_Aug12.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69N_cl_637int_south_Aug12.jpg)

The whole collection (and some new photos from the two lane sections of highway) are available here:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm (http://"http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm")
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 04, 2013, 02:39:27 AM
Hwy 402, Sarnia.  Over the past few years, the MTO has been working to widen the westbound highway 402 approaching the Bluewater Bridge to provide queuing lanes for international traffic.  The project was finished late last year, and has yielded and interesting cross-section for traffic:

Some pictures:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/402_structure_2_west_Jul13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/402_dv_2-5_west_Jul13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/402_cl_2_west_WB_Jul13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/402_dv_5_west_Jul13.jpg)

More photos, and full size photos are available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/Hwy402_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_402-403_images/Hwy402_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 13, 2013, 09:57:07 PM
A couple of new photos of the Highway 401 construction through Hurontario Street in Mississauga.  The small photos here, don't really do it justice, larger photos are available here:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm#Aug13 (http://"http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm#Aug13")

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/08-Aug/401_cl_343_west_Aug13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/08-Aug/401_cl_343_west_WB_Aug13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/08-Aug/401_cl_343_east_c_Aug13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/08-Aug/401_ramp_410_Aug13.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 14, 2013, 04:56:19 PM
Another batch of new photos, this time from a new roundabout that was recently constructed west of Hamilton at the junctions of Highways 5 and 8.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_dv_28-6_east_May13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_dv_28-8_east_May13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_cl_29_east_May13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_cl_29-1_west_May13.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_sign_8_ends_east.jpg)

As usual, more and larger:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy5_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy5_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 27, 2013, 12:21:19 PM
The widening of Highway 401 through the Hurontario Street interchange is finally substantially complete:

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/10-Oct/401_cl_341_east_w_Oct13.jpg)

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/10-Oct/401_cl_342_west_WB_Oct13.jpg)

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/10-Oct/401_dv_344_east_Oct13_E.jpg)

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hurontario/2013/10-Oct/401_cl_343_east_WB_Oct13.jpg)

More and Larger:
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm#Oct13 (http://"http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm")
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 01, 2013, 11:58:23 PM
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/5_sign_8_ends_east.jpg)

What's the story with the {8} end shield?  Are {5} & {8} now multiplexed for a very short distance because of the new roundabout?  If so, I need to go update my files for CHM with this info.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 02, 2013, 09:43:16 AM
That's correct, Hwy 8 follows Hwy 5 now because of the roundabout for a short distance.  This was seemingly done to ensure continuity between Highway 8 and Hamilton Road 8.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 02, 2013, 11:09:49 PM
That's correct, Hwy 8 follows Hwy 5 now because of the roundabout for a short distance.  This was seemingly done to ensure continuity between Highway 8 and Hamilton Road 8.

Alright, I'll make the fixes to my {5} & {8}(Cam) files for CHM and submit them soon. ;)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 10, 2013, 10:56:58 AM
Some new photos of the Hwy 417 extension through Arnprior taken back in June:

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_183-5_west_t_Jun13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_183_east_Jun13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_181-25_east_Jun13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_180-5_west_EB_t.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_180_west_t_Jun13.jpg)

More and larger:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy417_p4e_images.htm (http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy417_p4e_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on November 18, 2013, 10:40:01 PM
Just sent and email to the County of Northumberland.  The email states for a proposal to design/build a super 2 freeway from the JCT of ON-401 heading north, paralleling County Rd 30, towards the County Line of Peterborough just north of Campbellford.  This also calls for the cooperative agreement with Peterborough County to move the road to the eventual termination at ON-7. The proposal also calls for a super 2 freeway bypass of Campbellford to the south crossing the Trent River, from County Road 8 west to the JCT of the new road, then arcing northward.   This addresses a lot of issues with County Rd 30. 1.) A New 24hr sand and gravel industry as just started land clearing in Codrington to supply a growing development in the GTA and South Eastern Ontario.  2.) An increase in traffic heading north to Cottage Country, and a growing retirement communities of Warkworth and Campbellford as well as Brighton. 3.) Solve a long standing debate and battle in Campbellford for a new second crossing of the Trent.  4.) Take through trucks off the streets  of Campbellford, heading to either ON-7, and ON-401. Lastly 5.). address several high accident intersections that have claimed countless lives.  The Municipalities of both Brighton, and Trent Hills (Campbellford) are fast growing, and new industry is coming online in the near future.  Traffic is increasing and quick fixes are not solving the problem.  A new road would foster more development and better access to key destinations.   
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 20, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
As part of an upcoming highway rehabilitation project, the centreline of a small section of Hwy 401 will be moved 19m to the south at the Leslie Street interchange in North York.  Neat construction staging:

http://www.library.mto.gov.on.ca/webopac/getattachment.asp?passport=fa9ab928-be7c-4f02-8bac-ea8f9940a333&TemplateGUID=c36ec88e-067b-45b1-bbc9-cd42fe489177&RecordGUID=4ce76792-0be9-464c-8e0d-878d0093f39f&FieldGUID=eea74945-da4f-422e-800e-a53392110279&AttachmentIndex=0 (http://www.library.mto.gov.on.ca/webopac/getattachment.asp?passport=fa9ab928-be7c-4f02-8bac-ea8f9940a333&TemplateGUID=c36ec88e-067b-45b1-bbc9-cd42fe489177&RecordGUID=4ce76792-0be9-464c-8e0d-878d0093f39f&FieldGUID=eea74945-da4f-422e-800e-a53392110279&AttachmentIndex=0)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on January 22, 2014, 04:57:17 PM
If you want to drive on the current North Channel Bridge in Cornwall, you have a little over 24 hours to do it: http://www.pontcornwallbridge.ca/eng/?p=2258
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 10, 2014, 10:53:19 AM
Some new pictures:

Hwy 410:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy410_images.htm (http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy410_images.htm)

From high atop the expressway from the Hwy 401 ramp:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_0_north_high_May12.jpg)

Long Flyover
(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_0-3_south_side_Aug13.jpg)

Some signage:
(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_1_south_May12.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_4-5_north_Aug13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_8_south.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_8-5_north_May05_lg.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_dv_16-75_north_Aug13.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_18_south_Jun11.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_12-1_south_Oct12.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410_cl_21_south_Oct13.jpg)


Hwy 94:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_90-99_images/Hwy94_images.htm (http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_90-99_images/Hwy94_images.htm)
(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_90-99_images/94_cl_0_north_Jun12.jpg)

(http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_90-99_images/94_cl_0-5_north_Jun13.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 24, 2014, 06:08:56 PM
A couple of pictures of the 404 extension north of Toronto:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_64-9_south_firstsign_Apr14_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_61-5_north_forum_Apr14.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on April 24, 2014, 07:29:48 PM
A couple of pictures of the 404 extension north of Toronto:

How close to it being opened do you think?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 24, 2014, 07:34:17 PM
Probably a few months, I think September is what is scheduled.  There were two contracts to build the highway.  Work is nearly finished on the northern portion of the highway, which is what I have pictured, but there is still a lot of work outstanding in order to complete the southern construction contract.

Long story short, September is likely.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 27, 2014, 04:16:24 PM
A couple of new pictures of the eastern extension of Highway 407 through Durham Region.  Taken today, by me:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/407E_Sideline16_structure_west_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/407E_WestDuffinsCk_east_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 24, 2014, 11:02:24 AM
Some new pictures of the 401 extension in Windsor that were taken by me the other day:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_sign_HerbGrayPkw_May14_forum.jpg)

Signage is coming up:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_sign_HuronChurch_May14_forum.jpg)

View of the twin tunnels along both Highways 3 and 401 east of Cousineau:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_9_east_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_9_east_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_9_east_May14_24x16.jpg)

Approaching the roundabout on Highway 3:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_10-75_east_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_10-75_east_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_10-75_east_May14_24x16.jpg)

View of the roundabout:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_11_rbt_west_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_11_rbt_west_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_11_rbt_west_May14_24x16.jpg)

View of Highway 401 passing through the future eastern Highway 3 interchange:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_10-9_east_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_10-9_east_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_10-9_east_May14_24x16.jpg)

Westerly view looking towards the future eastern Highway 3 interchange:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_west_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_west_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_west_May14_24x16.jpg)

Easterly view at the transition between the new highway and the old highway:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_east_May14_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_west_May14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_11-25_east_May14_24x16.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: US 41 on May 24, 2014, 12:55:01 PM
This is kind of off topic, but does anyone happen to know if you can see the CN Tower from ON 401?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: webfil on May 24, 2014, 01:13:32 PM
Sure. There are enough flyover ramps along 401 (401/410, 401/427, 401/409, 401/400, 401/Spadina Exwy) to allow one to observe the skyline in the distance.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: US 41 on May 24, 2014, 02:57:28 PM
Thanks. I'm thinking about going to Canada this fall. I just want to see the CN Tower when I go to Toronto. (Obviously I'm going to do other things in Canada if I go.) Is it worth the money to go in it?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: xcellntbuy on May 24, 2014, 06:11:07 PM
This is kind of off topic, but does anyone happen to know if you can see the CN Tower from ON 401?
You can see the CN Tower and the entire skyline of Toronto from as far away as St. Catherines on the opposite side of Lake Ontario.  It looks "squat" due to the curvature of the earth and has a greenish hue like the "emerald city."
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 24, 2014, 06:54:49 PM
This is kind of off topic, but does anyone happen to know if you can see the CN Tower from ON 401?
You can see the CN Tower and the entire skyline of Toronto from as far away as St. Catherines on the opposite side of Lake Ontario.  It looks "squat" due to the curvature of the earth and has a greenish hue like the "emerald city."

Yep, I always enjoyed looking for, and seeing Toronto's skyline from the QEW between St. Catherines & Burlington.  Especially at night!

This spot on the QEW (http://goo.gl/maps/muAKp) was always one of the better locations to see Toronto on a clear night.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 24, 2014, 09:00:21 PM
You can see the CN Tower and the skyline from a number of points pretty far away from Downtown Toronto.  You get a great view along the Southbound 404 between Bloomington Road and Stouffville Road, as well as westbound on the 407 through the York Durham Line interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: webfil on May 25, 2014, 12:29:25 PM
Thanks. I'm thinking about going to Canada this fall. I just want to see the CN Tower when I go to Toronto. (Obviously I'm going to do other things in Canada if I go.) Is it worth the money to go in it?

Buy a record or two at Sonic Boom, get some comic books at The Beguiling and go for a GO-train ride if you really have 40$ and time to spare.

Rather a tourist trap than an impressive attraction, IMHO. Might be the tallest building on this continent, but as long as it is the only one that high, you really get nothing from viewing the city from atop, when you can explore by yourself.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 25, 2014, 07:12:26 PM
^ You're joking right?

The CN Tower is definitely overpriced, no question, but the view of Toronto and area is spectacular.  You can see Niagara Falls on a clear day.  Surely the CN Tower is a better way to experience Toronto than riding a bland and generic GO train.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on May 26, 2014, 09:40:16 AM
* Except for railfans and transit fans.

Anyway, the best way to see the CN Tower from a highway is definitely on the Gardiner Expressway, probably eastbound. But if you want a clinch of 401, you'll have to backtrack (albeit not for too long).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: webfil on May 26, 2014, 12:34:50 PM
Not a question of railfanning or whatsoever. The persons with whom I traveled and I prefer being on solid ground and walking about, discovering cities by walking 'em, seeing 'em, feeling 'em.

I find important when going to new places that I meet new people, especially locals - and I quite like hanging with Torontonians. I don't think being able to do that atop the CN tower, but I did elsewhere; in cafés, stores and aboard the train.  :D

Then again, it depends on what you are seeking when travelling.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on May 26, 2014, 01:04:11 PM
As far as the Windsor highway work is concerned, I am surprised.  Until Google maps began to indicate the dashed lines for the future work, I had been under the impression that the road/bridge was going mostly due west to hook up near 75/Southfield, which looking at the map was still to me a superior alignment.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: ghYHZ on May 26, 2014, 06:58:35 PM
Sure the CN Tower is a tourist trap....... but I’ve been up several times and still enjoy the view. Now if I could only get the nerve I’d love to do the edge walk.

http://www.cntower.ca/en-ca/plan-your-visit/attractions/edgewalk/edgewalk-overview.html

(Another great view of the skyline is approaching the downtown airport on a Porter or Air Canada Express Q400. The approach is over the harbour and nearly right beside the tower but well below the observation deck).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 26, 2014, 08:53:46 PM
As far as the Windsor highway work is concerned, I am surprised.  Until Google maps began to indicate the dashed lines for the future work, I had been under the impression that the road/bridge was going mostly due west to hook up near 75/Southfield, which looking at the map was still to me a superior alignment.

I agree.  The proposed alignment on the US side is kind of dumb.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: US 41 on May 26, 2014, 10:15:30 PM
Thanks everyone for the input on the CN Tower. If I go, I'll probably go in the tower.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: lordsutch on May 27, 2014, 12:30:39 AM
I agree.  The proposed alignment on the US side is kind of dumb.

I'd imagine the major constraint was the need to have a large inspection area on the US side. The area where the new crossing lands seems to be less populated than the Southfield area. Plus if the bridge did connect at I-75 and Southfield, Michigan would probably need to extend the Southfield Freeway south/east to accommodate the added traffic cutting through to/from I-94 and I-96.

And, although they'd probably never admit it, building closer to the Ambassador Bridge makes it more likely that it will divert traffic from Maroun's bridge. Particularly with the 401 getting closer to the Ambassador with the new extension, if the new bridge landed at 75/Southfield a lot of traffic would use the Ambassador and brave the remaining lights on Huron Church Rd rather than potentially going 10+ miles out of their way.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on May 27, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
I'd imagine the major constraint was the need to have a large inspection area on the US side. The area where the new crossing lands seems to be less populated than the Southfield area.

Exactly, on both sides it would be far more disruptive to residential developments, and require a lot more land acquisition on both sides. The Canadian side has already required over $500M worth of expropriations, routing it through LaSalle could have easily exceeded that (not mention the social issues that raises).

And, although they'd probably never admit it, building closer to the Ambassador Bridge makes it more likely that it will divert traffic from Maroun's bridge. Particularly with the 401 getting closer to the Ambassador with the new extension, if the new bridge landed at 75/Southfield a lot of traffic would use the Ambassador and brave the remaining lights on Huron Church Rd rather than potentially going 10+ miles out of their way.

Oh, there's no hesitation in admitting that the goal was to take traffic off of Huron Church Rd. As far as taking the traffic specifically away from Matty, I think that's just an added bonus. ;)

But in terms of routing, that hits the nail squarely on the head. On the Canadian side the routing is able to serve both semi-local traffic via the EC Row, and traffic originating/destined in Windsor's south end and points beyond via the 401. A more southwesterly routing there would take that ECR traffic and keep it on Huron Church.
On the American side, a more southwesterly routing would attract the same trips heading to/from the south/west on I-75 and I-94, but traffic heading to the north or to I-96 would indeed be far more inclined to go to the north.

So in terms of southern traffic, yes, a different route would be shorter, but all of that traffic is still better served by this route than any other. But the traffic heading more northerly within Windsor and Metro Detroit, which is likely in far greater numbers, is far better served by this routing than that southern one.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 13, 2014, 09:08:50 PM
A few new pictures of the Hwy 69 construction south of Sudbury:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/69_cl_Jun2014_southernconstruction_south_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/69_cl_Jun2014_CrookedLakeBr_south_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/69_cl_Jun2014_southernconstruction_north_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/69_cl_Jun2014_InkLkStructure_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: ghYHZ on June 14, 2014, 11:33:42 AM
Nice shots......thanks for the up-date. I’ll be up that way next week doing a loop via the Tobermory Ferry. 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 03, 2014, 10:30:08 PM
A couple of new pictures of some highways that have been widened during the past couple of years:

Hwy 3 in Southwestern Ontario was widened to four lanes between Windsor and Essex during a multi-year project that finished in 2012:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_14_east_Oct11.jpg)

What it used to look like:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_21-8_west_Sep05.jpg)

What it looks like today:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_21-3_west_Jun14.jpg)

More:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy3_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy3_images.htm)


A section of Hwy 7 was also widened through Durham Region, east of Toronto.  The extension of Highway 407 is being built parallel to this road:
From this:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_332_east.jpg)

To this:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_332_east_Apr14.jpg)

This is the future grade separation that will carry Hwy 7 overtop of the future 407 extension:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_structure_339_east_under_Apr14.jpg)

For more info on this portion of Hwy 7:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_p2d_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_p2d_images.htm)


All recent updates:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/recent_updates.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/recent_updates.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 16, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
A new distance sign has been installed on Hwy 11 north of Barrie and it has generated some buzz:

http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/barrie-highway-sign-directs-travellers-a-long-way-north-1.1917324

http://onthighwayman.tumblr.com/image/91850634219 (http://onthighwayman.tumblr.com/image/91850634219)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: webfil on July 16, 2014, 09:10:53 PM
Well that's odd. It's ONLY 50 km (3,8%) longer to Thunder Bay via ON-11 rather than 17.  :wow:

Speaking of which, the new provincial budget has officialized some road investments for TB; ON-11/17 will be 4-laned northw... eeerr... I mean eastwa... eeeerrr southward to Nipigon. Work should begin next year. That's nearly 100 km of 4-laning.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 1995hoo on July 16, 2014, 09:53:58 PM
Heh. I get a kick out of people from Ontario not knowing where Cochrane is. I remember back in 1989 I was trading patches at the Canadian Boy Scout jamboree on PEI and I traded for a patch saying "Medicine Hat District." After we made the deal, the kid told me it's in BC and I responded that it's actually in Alberta. He was sure I was wrong—after all, he was Canadian and I was American—until a nearby adult confirmed I was right, which left him really sheepish. It amuses me to no end whenever I'm more familiar with Canadian geography than Canadians are, and yes, I have indeed visited Cochrane, though it was a long time ago and I don't really feel much incentive to return.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 26, 2014, 09:08:11 AM
A couple of new photos of the extension of Hwy 407 in Ontario, northeast of Toronto.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_1_Jul14_forum.jpg)
Full size:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_1_Jul14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_1_Jul14_24x16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_2_Jul14_forum.jpg)
Full size:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_2_Jul14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2014/07-Jul/407E_2_Jul14_24x16.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 29, 2014, 05:22:54 PM
The 404 Ext's is almost finished:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/404_soon.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 29, 2014, 11:43:34 PM
The 404 Ext's is almost finished:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/404_soon.jpg)

I never thought I'd see the Ontario Ministry of Transportation use concrete as the surface layer. Every time I go up to Ontario, the only concrete I ever encounter outside of 407 are small sections of 401 and 427.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on July 30, 2014, 10:15:03 AM
Hmm, I don't know how often Ontario uses concrete pavement, but I recall the easternmost section of 417 being in concrete, and probably other sections as well.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 30, 2014, 10:31:10 AM
There has been somewhat of a resurgence in the use of concrete in Ontario over the past decade.  A large section of the 417 was reconstructed in concrete about a decade ago, as have sections of both the 401 and 402.  One of the phases of the 410 extension was also built with a concrete riding surface.  The eastern extension of the 407 is supposed to be paved with asphalt however.

Here is the full set of 404 photos that I took yesterday:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_RavenshoeExtn_images.htm#July14 (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_RavenshoeExtn_images.htm#July14)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 30, 2014, 01:27:49 PM
Are bridges still being built with an asphalt driving surface, or have they also made the switch?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 30, 2014, 01:36:23 PM
No, bridge decks are still almost always surfaced in asphalt.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 31, 2014, 06:10:39 PM
Over-height dump truck strikes the overhead truss on the Burlington Skyway bridge causing it to be closed:

http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-bound-lanes-of-qew-closed-at-burlington-skyway-after-truck-strikes-scaffolding-1.1941042
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 03, 2014, 06:21:58 PM
Over-height dump truck strikes the overhead truss on the Burlington Skyway bridge causing it to be closed:

http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-bound-lanes-of-qew-closed-at-burlington-skyway-after-truck-strikes-scaffolding-1.1941042

Dang.  That's crazy.  I honestly think they should install a system in trucks that would prevent them from going more than 10mph if the truck bed is upright....
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on August 03, 2014, 08:56:02 PM
Over-height dump truck strikes the overhead truss on the Burlington Skyway bridge causing it to be closed:

http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-bound-lanes-of-qew-closed-at-burlington-skyway-after-truck-strikes-scaffolding-1.1941042

Saw that on the news. It'll be a mess for quite some time. Means I'm not going to Toronto any time soon.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 05, 2014, 03:22:35 PM
Amazingly, the skyway opened to traffic last evening.  They were able to complete a temporary repair the the damaged beam, and will complete a permanent repair during various upcoming overnight closures

http://globalnews.ca/news/1490028/toronto-bound-burlinton-skyway-bridge-may-reopen-later-today/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 17, 2014, 08:04:38 PM
Here are a few of the future West Durham Link interchange with Highway 401 east of Toronto

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2014/08-Aug/401_structure_407_se_Aug14_forum.jpg)

From the road when they were installing some of the girders.  Traffic backed up pretty badly when they were doing this:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2014/07-Jul/401_structure_407_east_Jul14_forum.jpg)

They are really moving the highway that far to the north:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2014/08-Aug/401_cl_407_east_Aug14_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 12, 2014, 09:46:42 AM
Some new pictures of Hwy 7 between London and Stratford, ON.  A series of multi-year construction projects, that are not quit finished yet, have seen this road reconstructed with roundabouts installed at some of the busier intersections.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_dv_102-5_east_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_115-5_west_hilltop_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_125-8_east_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_dv_129_west_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_rbt_128-8_7EastStratford_Jun14.jpg)

The full set:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_p1b_images.htm (http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Hwy7_p1b_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 12, 2014, 01:50:08 PM
The Windsor Star posted a feature last week for the 15th anniversary of one of the deadliest crashes in the province's history.
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/photos-1999-highway-401-disaster

An 87-vehicle pile-up on a fog shrouded 401 at Manning Road, back on Labour Day weekend, 1999. In the end there were 8 fatalities as a result of that collision.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on September 17, 2014, 02:03:14 PM
The 404 extension opens to traffic.

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/09/highway-404-extension-set-to-open.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: oscar on September 17, 2014, 03:02:57 PM
The 404 extension opens to traffic.

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/09/highway-404-extension-set-to-open.html

The news release doesn't say *when* it will open to traffic, or when all the politicians quoted in the release will get to attend the ribbon-cutting.  Hopefully by the time I swing by there in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 17, 2014, 05:02:54 PM
It opened today at 3.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 18, 2014, 12:13:03 PM
The 404 extension opens to traffic.

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/09/highway-404-extension-set-to-open.html

The news release doesn't say *when* it will open to traffic, or when all the politicians quoted in the release will get to attend the ribbon-cutting.  Hopefully by the time I swing by there in a few weeks.

Usually don't bother with a ribbon-cutting and all of that. Coordinating a media event like that usually takes some doing, and it wouldn't look good for them to hold an event for an opening of a road and there's a last minute delay, or to have a perfectly good road sitting empty for a while just for the sake of a photo-op.

Easier to just have press releases ready to go alike above, do the photos and the speeches while construction's starting up. Like here:
http://www.am980.ca/2014/07/25/23468/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 18, 2014, 10:11:55 PM
Obligatory Hwy 404 photo:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_56_north_Sep18-14.jpg)

Full size:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_56_north_Sep18-14_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_56_north_Sep18-14_24x16.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on September 19, 2014, 05:39:36 AM
It opened today at 3.


Guess it's time to update the file for {404} on the CHM site then. :)

So, what are the new exit numbers along it?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 19, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
There are two interchanges on the extension:

#59 - with the Queensville Sideroad (Regional Road 77)

#65 - with Woodbine Avenue (Regional Road 8), at the northern terminus of the highway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 15, 2014, 08:10:00 AM
Some new photos of Hwy 6 in Ontario in Guelph.  A new interchange was constructed at Laird Road in Guelph, and actually opened last year.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/6_dv_111_north_Oct14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/6_structure_112-5_north_Oct14.jpg)

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy6_p2b_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy6_p2b_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on October 15, 2014, 10:02:18 AM
After experiencing being stuck at several long signals on this road, I can agree that those interchanges are really needed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 29, 2014, 03:54:44 PM
Some pictures of Highway 7/8 in Kitchener, ON.  Construction is underway to upgrade and widen the current six lane freeway:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2014/10-Oct/7_cl_182_east_c_Oct14.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2014, 07:22:25 PM
Some pictures of Highway 7/8 in Kitchener, ON.  Construction is underway to upgrade and widen the current six lane freeway:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2014/10-Oct/7_cl_182_east_c_Oct14.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm)

How many lanes will the upgrade have, out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 29, 2014, 07:44:54 PM
^ It is being widened from four to six lanes.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on December 26, 2014, 07:49:11 PM
Construction of the Herb Gray Pkwy (extension of the 401) west to I-75 continues. It seems like they have taken new pictures of the progress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway/

NONE of the pictures are mine.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on December 27, 2014, 04:31:28 PM
Some new photos of the recently twinned portion of Hwy 11/17 east of Thunder Bay:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1400-3_west_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1401_west_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_cl_1402_east_t_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/11_structure_1412_east_EB_Aug14.jpg)

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/Hwy11_p5b_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_11_images/Hwy11_p5b_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on January 12, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
A collection of photos of the extension of Highway 401 in Windsor, Ontario.  These photos were taken on three separate occasions during the 2014 construction season.  The new highway (dubbed the Herb Gray Parkway) will open to traffic sometime during 2015.  As is evident from the photos, the highway was nearly complete before the winter necessitated a construction shut down.

Some pictures:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/05-May/7087_structure_1-5_north_May14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/05-May/3_cl_8-5_east_May14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/05-May/3_cl_11_Howard_over_north_May14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/05-May/401_cl_11-1_east_May14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/06-Jun/401_cl_4-75_west_offset_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/06-Jun/3_cl_6-4_west_Jun14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/12-Dec/3_cl_6-3_west_Dec14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/12-Dec/3_cl_8-4_east_Dec14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/2014/12-Dec/401_cl_9_west_Dec14.jpg)

For more photos than anyone could ever care to see (or for full-size versions of the photos above):
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/Hwy401_HGP_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/HGP/Hwy401_HGP_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on January 15, 2015, 08:08:18 PM
Some plans for Ontario over the next few years

Southern highways http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2014/southern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2014/southern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf)

Northern highways http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/northern-highway-2014/northern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/northern-highway-2014/northern-highways-program-2014-2018.pdf)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on January 15, 2015, 10:26:19 PM
Interesting to know that the MTO plans to twin the 17 east of the Manitoba border. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on January 26, 2015, 09:14:25 AM
Some updated photos of the 407 north of Toronto.  Between Hwys 427 and 400, Hwy 407 was widened from ten to twelve lanes during the 2014 construction season.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_60_east_t_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_62_west_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_60_west_Aug14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_66_east_Aug14.jpg)

For the entire set, and for full-size images:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/Hwy407_p3_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/Hwy407_p3_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on February 10, 2015, 09:47:46 AM
Contract has been called to widen Hwy 401 in the Kitchener-Cambridge area.

https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/contractView.jsf?id=29330251 (https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/contractView.jsf?id=29330251)

Plan would call for 10 GPL + 2 HOV between RR-8 and RR-24. There are plans underway to expand further to the east, first to Townline Road and then eventually to the Wellington-Halton boundary, but no firm timeline is set for that yet.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: J N Winkler on February 10, 2015, 11:48:47 AM
https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/contractView.jsf?id=29330251 (https://www.raqs.merx.com/public/bulletin/contractView.jsf?id=29330251)

Is there a place online where tender drawings can be viewed free of charge?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 22, 2015, 06:42:04 PM
I was up in Sudbury over the weekend.  I took some photos of the ongoing highway twinning en route there and back:

Two views looking northerly approaching the Hwy 64 overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_1_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_3_forum.jpg)

Northerly view approaching the Crooked Lake Road overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_4_forum.jpg)

Northerly view across the twin Murdock River bridges.  The old highway crossed the Murdock River via a low level culvert:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_5_forum.jpg)

Southbound view approaching the Hwy 64 overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_6_forum.jpg)

The completed wildlife overpass north of Hwy 637
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_7_forum.jpg)

Hwy 69 approaching Crown Ridge.  One day, Hwy 69 will be blasted through this ridge with a 30m (100ft) cut in order to straighten the highway's alignment.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_Feb15_2_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on March 07, 2015, 10:22:35 PM
(http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/english/highway-bridges/highway-407-east-project-phase-1-2.jpg)

Not sure if anyone noticed, but the West and East Durham link (future connections between the 401 and future 407) have been officially named highway 412 for the West Durham Link and highway 418 for the East Durham Link. These are the newest additions to the 400 series highways in a while I believe.

The 412 will open in late 2015.

Source and map: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway-bridges/major-highway-projects.shtml

Better resolution of the map: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway-bridges/pdfs/407-east-map.pdf
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 16, 2015, 05:47:50 PM
Some construction photos of Highway 406 in Ontario through Welland.  Despite the 400-series designation, Highway 406 was initially built as a two lane at-grade highway through Welland, and is only now, decades after initial construction, being widened to four lanes.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/SouthernConstruction.jpg)

Some photos:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2012/10-Oct/406_cl_21-75_south_w_Oct12.jpg)
Hwy 406 crossing over the Welland River and Old Welland Canal.  It is interesting to note that despite being side by side, the Welland River and Old Canal have different water levels.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2012/10-Oct/406_cl_21-25_north_Oct12.jpg)
Northerly view towards the Merritt Road overpass.  The Merritt Road overpass was constructed in 2011 in an advanced contract to expedite the twinning work.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/07-Jul/406_cl_22-75_south_Jul14.jpg)
Southerly view approaching Woodlawn Road.  During construction, Highway 406 followed what will become the southbound on and off-ramps through the future interchange.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/07-Jul/406_structure_22_btw_south_Jul14.jpg)
Southerly view between the twin Welland River bridges.  The new bridge is at left.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/07-Jul/406_cl_21_south_NB_t_Jul14.jpg)
The Merritt Road interchange was opened to traffic during 2013, two years in advance of the completion of the remainder of the highway.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/09-Sep/406_cl_26_northwest_Sep14.jpg)
One of the more noteworthy features of the 406 construction was the addition of a new three lane roundabout at East Main Street.  This is the first three lane roundabout on a provincial highway in Ontario.  (Though it is not the first three lane roundabout in Ontario -- that was constructed in K/W several years ago).

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/09-Sep/406_cl_25-75_south_Sep14.jpg)
Overhead signage approaching the roundabout at East Main Street.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2014/09-Sep/406_rbt_26_east_Sep14.jpg)
This view looks easterly along East Main Street towards the Main Street Tunnel.  Highway 406 parallels the Welland Canal.  Immediately east of the Highway 406 roundabout, East Main Street (Highway 7146) dives below the canal in the pictured tunnel.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2015/01-Jan/406_cl_23-4_north_Jan15.jpg)
Taken in January, 2015, this photo shows the southbound lanes of Highway 406 had just about been finished before construction was shut down over the winter.

The whole set of pictures (I took a lot), and larger versions of the photos are available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy406_cons.htm#2012 (http://"http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy406_cons.htm#2012")
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Zeffy on March 16, 2015, 05:54:02 PM
Nice photos! This photo strikes me as very interesting, mainly because there's either no backplate on these signals, or it's the same color as the base color:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2015/01-Jan/406_structure_23_east_Jan15.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Big John on March 16, 2015, 06:02:24 PM
^^ Canada uses yellow backplates, including that photo.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on March 16, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
Nice photos! This photo strikes me as very interesting, mainly because there's either no backplate on these signals, or it's the same color as the base color:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_Contracts/2015/01-Jan/406_structure_23_east_Jan15.jpg)

Like Big John said, Canada uses yellow back plates. Not sure why, but that's what happens.

But, there are exceptions:

http://goo.gl/maps/p9yiI

http://goo.gl/maps/KrxS7

Dark Green coloured background:

http://goo.gl/maps/XPB7u
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 17, 2015, 10:51:43 AM
Work will begin this May for the new Hwy-7 alignment between Kitchener and Guelph.  http://www.570news.com/2015/03/11/highway-7-expansion-between-kitchener-and-guelph-expected-to-start-in-may/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on March 17, 2015, 01:27:46 PM

Like Big John said, Canada uses yellow back plates. Not sure why, but that's what happens.

But, there are exceptions:

Because yellow is brighter more visible. The all dark look is for aesthetics.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 23, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
Some pictures of the 401/Future 412 interchange in Durham Region in Ontario:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_dv_406_east_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_dv_406_east_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_dv_406_east_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Eastbound view apporoaching the Lake Ridge Road overpass.  The future ramp from the eastbound lanes of the 401 will meet Lake Ridge Road almost exactly overtop of where the current eastbound lanes of the 401 are today.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_EB_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_EB_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_EB_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Westerly view from the Lake Ridge Road overpass.  During the winter, the former westbound lanes of the 401 were obliterated.  The crushed asphalt currently awaits transport off-site to be disposed of or recycled.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_C_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_C_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_west_C_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Centralized view looking west from Lake Ridge, with a GO train passing by.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_oldalignment_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_oldalignment_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_oldalignment_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Easterly view along the 401.  The old Lake Ridge Road overpass is in the foreground.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_EB_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_EB_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_EB_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Easterly view from the old Lake Ridge Road overpass.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_WB_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_WB_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/401_cl_406_east_WB_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Looking overtop of the westbound lanes of the 401 from Lake Ridge Road.  The future on-ramp to the westbound 401 from the future 412 is almost entirely graded.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/7_cl_338_east_Mar15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/7_cl_338_east_Mar15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/03-Mar/7_cl_338_east_Mar15_24x16.jpg)
Further north, this photo looks easterly along Hwy 7 at the future Hwy 412 interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on March 23, 2015, 12:51:41 PM
Interesting the MTO decided to rip up the old westbound lanes. I always thought the westbound lanes would become the express lanes eastbound and the old eastbound lanes would be collector. But I guess there will be no extension of the express, collector arrangement. All the MTO would have to do is build another bunch of lanes westbound to complete the arrangement.

Hopefully it will be open by Fall.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on March 23, 2015, 01:24:53 PM
Interesting the MTO decided to rip up the old westbound lanes. I always thought the westbound lanes would become the express lanes eastbound and the old eastbound lanes would be collector. But I guess there will be no extension of the express, collector arrangement. All the MTO would have to do is build another bunch of lanes westbound to complete the arrangement.

Hopefully it will be open by Fall.

The stretch between Exit 401 and Lake Ridge Road has limited ROW. It appears that they're building in the capacity for express lanes at the interchange, but not demolishing a zillion houses to build an extension at this time.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 23, 2015, 01:47:48 PM
The long term plan calls for the collector lanes to be extended as far easterly as Hwy 412.  The study can be found here:

http://highway401brocktocourtice.ca/
The PDF of the roll plan through Ajax is here:
http://highway401brocktocourtice.ca/consultation-pic.html
http://highway401brocktocourtice.ca/pdf/11-20-14/Roll%20Plan%201%20-%20Brock%20Road%20to%20407%20West%20Durham%20Link-low.pdf

The 401 is being moved as far north as it is through the Hwy 412 interchange in order to accommodate the on and off ramps between both the future Lake Ride Road interchange as well as the interchange between Hwy 401 and Hwy 412.  It was either the railway or the highway that needed to be moved in order to construct the interchanges.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on March 26, 2015, 02:12:32 PM
Would you like to see the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway signed along Highway 401 in some way again? If so, please email me (onthighwayman@gmail.com) stating your support.

I am putting together a proposal to resurrect the signage, and having a gauge of public support would aid that process.

Please note that no names, emails, or personal identifiers will be shared without permission.

- Chris
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on April 02, 2015, 12:29:35 AM
Oh, the public in Southern Ontario will be scared of that word that starts with "F", the Canadian nationalists will jump up and down like they do. Supposedly, we in Canada can never use the word "Freeway" but most always use the word "Highway". Just like it's called Grade 12 here and not 12th Grade. Or one that relates more, we call it Queen St W, not W Queen St. (Can someone seriously tell me why we throw the directions on streets at the end) I know that's the case at least in Southern Ontario, but not sure about everywhere.

Also, to what extent would you like to resurrect the M-C signage? The problem I see, is that with the overlap of the Highway of Heroes signage, especially with the MTO's obsession with bilingualism, can you imagine seeing a sign assembly in the GTA with possibly 5 shields? (Hwy 401, Highway of Heroes, Autoroute des Heros, M-C Freeway, Autoroute M-C) Or would you rather have the M-C designation appear like those big blue signs at the 404 and Hwy 35/Hwy 115 interchange (I think) every so often along the route. If I recall, it's like this in Quebec, where you see the periodical BGS that says "Autoroute Jean Lesage". Another example that I see once a year is the "Miners Memorial Highway" Big Blue Sign on Hwy 104 at least twice in Nova Scotia.

Speaking of multiple names for Ontario freeways, any GPS or mapping program seems to name the Hamilton section of Hwy 403 as Chedoke Parkway, was there any real acknowledgement to this name on the road ever? Same goes for the Conestoga Parkway, which I'm not sure what the K-W residents call that freeway that's sometimes Highway 7, or Highway 8, or Highway 85. I personally use the term "Conestoga Parkway" myself, but I'm not sure if anyone knows what that term means, I really only learned it from the mapping programs. I also recall Microsoft Streets and Trips, back in the early 20-aughts (and possibly still on MapPoint), had Hwy 409 have a second name known as "Belfield Expressway", is there any proof of this too?

Also, could we please get a proper cosigning in Wellington County, of Hwy 401 and Hwy 6, it irks me that the Hwy 6 sign on the assembly is a trailblazer, with a "TO Hwy 6", when technically you are on Hwy 6. I believe the one with Hwy 410, which doesn't exist since legally since '97 decommissioning, and the Hwy 401/Hwy 6, are the only cosignings on 400 series highways that cosign with regular highways. But I could be wrong. On a side note, check out what they've done to the Hwy 410/Hwy 7, sign on Williams Parkway...you'd be in for a laugh if you understand the funny error they made.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on April 02, 2015, 03:07:07 AM
Would you like to see the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway signed along Highway 401 in some way again? If so, please email me (onthighwayman@gmail.com) stating your support.

Are there any signs left? Like the "M-C Freeway" shields?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 03, 2015, 07:29:51 AM
The last M-C shield stood out by the airport in Toronto, and came down about this time last year.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 07, 2015, 12:04:12 AM
Oh, the public in Southern Ontario will be scared of that word that starts with "F",

Highway's already designated, it's a question of signs.

the Canadian nationalists will jump up and down like they do. Supposedly, we in Canada can never use the word "Freeway" but most always use the word "Highway".

I'm sure that a road named after two Fathers of Confederation will make the nationalists very happy.


Also, to what extent would you like to resurrect the M-C signage?

Depends on what is the best option in terms of cost-effectiveness and signing the designation fully. Right now I'm trying to guage and document public support for the concept.


Speaking of multiple names for Ontario freeways, any GPS or mapping program seems to name the Hamilton section of Hwy 403 as Chedoke Parkway, was there any real acknowledgement to this name on the road ever?

No, in fact there's a movement afoot to name the 403 from Woodstock to Burlington for Alexander Graham Bell. Should that go through it would be the sole name on that section.

Same goes for the Conestoga Parkway, which I'm not sure what the K-W residents call that freeway that's sometimes Highway 7, or Highway 8, or Highway 85. I personally use the term "Conestoga Parkway" myself, but I'm not sure if anyone knows what that term means, I really only learned it from the mapping programs.

Never designated, though it was municipally signed on the city streets as such back in the 70s.
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/d5ef0982f6bf7bc54f9be82b87c45762/tumblr_mours5I2zf1qan4oto1_500.jpg)


Also, could we please get a proper cosigning in Wellington County, of Hwy 401 and Hwy 6, it irks me that the Hwy 6 sign on the assembly is a trailblazer, with a "TO Hwy 6", when technically you are on Hwy 6. I believe the one with Hwy 410, which doesn't exist since legally since '97 decommissioning, and the Hwy 401/Hwy 6, are the only cosignings on 400 series highways that cosign with regular highways.

The Hwy 410/7 overlap survived the 1997-98 restructuring as the highway was retained by MTO to the west of 410. But then Peel Region request it be transferred so they could develop along it (and thankfully they did as it would be a mess today or costing taxpayers a lot to upgrade it - whereas a municipality can pass those upgrade costs on to the developers creating the traffic more easily). So that section was transferred in late 2001, and the 410/7 designation still exists for the time being.

Other 400-series co-designations include 400/12, 403/24, QEW/403, and kinda sorta not really but it functionally is 401/ECR and 401/3.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on April 07, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
The Hwy 410/7 overlap survived the 1997-98 restructuring as the highway was retained by MTO to the west of 410. But then Peel Region request it be transferred so they could develop along it (and thankfully they did as it would be a mess today or costing taxpayers a lot to upgrade it - whereas a municipality can pass those upgrade costs on to the developers creating the traffic more easily). So that section was transferred in late 2001, and the 410/7 designation still exists for the time being.

Is 7 signed with KH shields along 410?  If so, I need to add it to the CHM project when we're back in business.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 07, 2015, 09:00:10 AM
^ There are a couple of remainder Hwy 7 shields along Hwy 410, but I am not sure if that'd be enough for me to include that section on a clinched hwy mapping site:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_sign_cosign410_thru.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/410-7_shield.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 07, 2015, 11:38:29 AM
Is 7 signed with KH shields along 410?  If so, I need to add it to the CHM project when we're back in business.

There are a smattering of signs, but if you tried to actually follow it through you'd lose it. And what is there is not long for this world.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on April 07, 2015, 08:37:29 PM
Is 7 signed with KH shields along 410?  If so, I need to add it to the CHM project when we're back in business.

There are a smattering of signs, but if you tried to actually follow it through you'd lose it. And what is there is not long for this world.

It's only between two exits anyways, so even its heyday, there was at most, just 4 of those signs. On Highway 410 today, there is no mention of Hwy 7 anymore, but up until 2003-ish, I can recall that the sign on the Clark Boulevard exit gantry said something along the lines of this:

Hwy 7 EAST Queen St 1km
Hwy 7 WEST Bovaird Dr 5km

Also, I was mentioning earlier of the Williams Parkway onramp sign, the funny error they made.

https://goo.gl/maps/6Z6dI

Those of you keeping score know that Peel Region already has a Regional Road 7, it's Airport Road! What used to be Hwy 7 in Brampton is now Regional Road 107. Queen St west of Hwy 410 is Regional Road 6. Bovaird Dr east of Hwy 410 is Regional Road 10. I wonder how many citizens of this city even know this. The names Hwy 10, and Hwy 7 are still used by me as a millennial born person and by my friends who are not roadgeeks, I don't expect that to change in the future due to legality both highways still have. As we know Hwy 10 starts now just north of the Brampton city limits, and Hwy 7, well Provincial Hwy 7 starts west of the Brampton city limits, as for Vaughan. York Region officially named Hwy 7 "Highway 7", as it never had a name before, and why give it a special name, the locals know it as "Highway 7" so let's keep it that way.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on April 07, 2015, 11:31:25 PM
Is 7 signed with KH shields along 410?  If so, I need to add it to the CHM project when we're back in business.

There are a smattering of signs, but if you tried to actually follow it through you'd lose it. And what is there is not long for this world.

But the point I'm trying to make here, is 7 still considered to be 'official' on 410 in the eyes of the MTO at this time (like how 69 was on 400 till the shields were removed)?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 12, 2015, 11:08:56 PM
Next phase of the Hwy 407 extension is proceeding; completion of 407 to Hwy 418 by late 2017, completion of the balance of 418 southerly to Hwy 401 and completion easterly to Hwy 35/115 by late 2020.

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2015/04/moving-forward-on-highway-407-east-1.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on April 13, 2015, 12:23:37 AM
Next phase of the Hwy 407 extension is proceeding; completion of 407 to Hwy 418 by late 2017, completion of the balance of 418 southerly to Hwy 401 and completion easterly to Hwy 35/115 by late 2020.

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2015/04/moving-forward-on-highway-407-east-1.html

They are going to be done to Harmony Road by fall? That is farther east than I thought.
Good, the 407 will be extended to the 115 like I thought. May take off some of the Peterborough bound traffic off the 401. Hopefully the 412 opens on time. All I've seen of that is the old westbound lanes of the 401 being ripped up.


As well, for a different topic, more pictures have been posted of the Herb Gray Pkwy (401 in Windsor) here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hgparkway/with/17088080811/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 19, 2015, 02:09:29 PM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:

Hwy 401:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_344_west_ramp_C_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_344_west_ramp_C_Mar15_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_344_west_ramp_C_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_344_west_ramp_C_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-4_west_Sep11_C.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-4_west_Sep11_C_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-4_west_Apr15_C.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-4_west_Apr15_C_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_346_west_C_Jun13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_346_west_C_Jun13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_346_west_C_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_346_west_C_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375_east_E_Aug12.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375_east_E_Aug12_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375_east_E_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375_east_E_Mar15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375-5_west_E.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375-5_west_E_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375-5_west_E_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_375-5_west_E_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_376_west_E.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_376_west_E_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_376_west_E_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_376_west_E_Apr15_24x16.jpg



Hwy 404:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15_24x16.jpg



Hwy 406:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9_south_Jul11.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9_south_Jul11_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9_south_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9_south_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9-6_south_Jul11.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9-6_south_Jul11_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9-5_south_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_9-5_south_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_11-75_north_Jul11.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_11-75_north_Jul11_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_10-5_north_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/406_dv_10-5_north_Apr15_24x16.jpg



QEW:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_97_FEB_Oct10.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_97_FEB_Oct10_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_97_FEB_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_97_FEB_Apr15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_Oct10_TB.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_Oct10_TB_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_TB_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_TB_Apr15_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on April 19, 2015, 11:42:10 PM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_Oct10_TB.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_Oct10_TB_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_TB_Apr15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_TB_Apr15_24x16.jpg

It's not everyday you see Clearview replaced with FHWA. Most of the signs replaced are nearly identical to their older counterparts. Yet, I find the old signs better in some way. Not a fan of the control city smaller than the other text either. Nice pics.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Brandon on April 21, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:

Hwy 404:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15_24x16.jpg

Nothing like the Ministry of Redundancy Ministry.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on April 21, 2015, 09:02:59 PM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:

Hwy 404:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15_24x16.jpg

Nothing like the Ministry of Redundancy Ministry.

Typical Ontario, unfortunately. Here is another one close by: http://goo.gl/maps/mkAfc


Also, this kind of bugs me: http://goo.gl/maps/U6meH

That exit leads to County (Simcoe in this case) 89 and ON 89, but the MTO doesn't put a county shield.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 22, 2015, 08:02:16 AM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:

Hwy 404:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Aug13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15.jpg)
http://www.AsphaltPlanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_dv_26-5_north_Mar15_24x16.jpg

Nothing like the Ministry of Redundancy Ministry.

I wouldn't say this sign is redundant.  In this case, Regional Road 7 is named Highway 7.  In this example, it is signed as it should be.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Brandon on April 22, 2015, 09:57:02 AM
I wouldn't say this sign is redundant.  In this case, Regional Road 7 is named Highway 7.  In this example, it is signed as it should be.

What if I changed it to {401} Highway 401?  Or {55} Interstate 55?  It very much is redundant to have a shield stating the route number and then repeating it with the text right afterward.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 22, 2015, 10:21:16 AM
What if I changed it to {401} Highway 401?  Or {55} Interstate 55?  It very much is redundant to have a shield stating the route number and then repeating it with the text right afterward.

No, it's the route number and the road name, two separate entities. See the RR-4 Dixie Road sign above, same situation.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 22, 2015, 11:47:58 AM
I wouldn't say this sign is redundant.  In this case, Regional Road 7 is named Highway 7.  In this example, it is signed as it should be.

What if I changed it to {401} Highway 401?  Or {55} Interstate 55?  It very much is redundant to have a shield stating the route number and then repeating it with the text right afterward.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with Ontario's route classification system.  The \7/ refers to regional (or county) road.  In this case, York Regional Road 7 is also named Highway 7.  A regional road shield, often dubbed a flowerpot by roadgeeks (\_/) is not synonymous with a road being a highway.  If it was named and signed as "\7/ York Road 7" than it could be considered redundant.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on April 22, 2015, 02:33:48 PM
Sometimes I wonder how many citizens around here even understand the Regional Road system at all. Concurrency is a concept that growing up at least in my case, no one seemed to understand. There were many that called Queen Street in Brampton, Highway 7, and Bovaird Drive as Highway 7 as well. While technically right, they couldn't wrap their head around Hwy 410 and Hwy 7 being a concurrency. Thus it was frustrating to hear of for instance in my days, Torbram of Bovaird being incorrectly referred to as Torbram and Hwy 7.

Speaking of Highway 7 in Brampton, what was the route of Highway 7 is known now as Regional Road 107, as Regional Road 7 was already taken, it is Airport Road.

As for redundancy, if we still had our highway system intact, and it said (CROWN 7) Highway 7, indeed that is very redundant. In York Region, this thoroughfare never had any previous names, and the locals always called it "Highway 7". A simple (FLOWERPOT 7) wouldn't have done the trick, at least in my eyes.

Thinking about this, I've noticed there are inconsistencies in how the powers that be in our province handle these kind of downloaded situations. Let us look at exit 320 in Milton, where the Maplehurst Jail is, people in the media years still refer to this as Highway 25, but that's besides the point. Anyways, notice that exit is simply signed (FLOWERPOT 25) with three control cities, I'd prefer if the name of that street "Martin St" was on that sign. In rural areas, I think just a route number is fine, but in suburban/urban areas it can be somewhat frustrating. But this happens outside of the province as well, a major thoroughfare in Greater Buffalo for example is signed on the Thruway as NY 78, when I assume that "Transit Road" may be what the locals there call it. I know if you look up an address there, you get told it is on transit road and not Highway/Route 78.

So why is it, when we get to other areas of the province, even in spots with downloaded roads, that we sometimes have words instead of flowerpots. I'm referring to exit 328 in Woodstock now, where I believe the sign says "Oxford Road 2". So why doesn't the sign in Milton say "Halton Road 25", or that sign in Woodstock say (FLOWERPOT 2). Could it be that Oxford County does not use the flowerpots at all? I would like to know if possible please.

If I had my way, even though the highways don't legally exist as provincial entities, I wouldn't have destroyed the long established highway numbers that even us millennials, who some of us were single digit age at the time of downloading refer to the downloaded roads as. But oh well, that's how things go.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 22, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
So why is it, when we get to other areas of the province, even in spots with downloaded roads, that we sometimes have words instead of flowerpots. I'm referring to exit 328 in Woodstock now, where I believe the sign says "Oxford Road 2". So why doesn't the sign in Milton say "Halton Road 25", or that sign in Woodstock say (FLOWERPOT 2). Could it be that Oxford County does not use the flowerpots at all? I would like to know if possible please.

The reason being that the exit signs are retrofits of the existing signs - ie, underneath the flowerpot the crown is still there. When the signs get fully replaced they would say "Halton Road 25" or "\25/ Martin Street" or whatever the municipality wants it to be called.


If I had my way, even though the highways don't legally exist as provincial entities, I wouldn't have destroyed the long established highway numbers that even us millennials, who some of us were single digit age at the time of downloading refer to the downloaded roads as. But oh well, that's how things go.

There were 65 instances where the numbering was maintained, 39 where the routing/numbering was improved (either by rerouting highways, like with Hwy 65 at New Liskeard, or incorporating it into the local network like Hwy 51 becoming CR-15 at Rondeau) so that actually improved consistency and better reflected traffic patterns, and 9 where numerical changes could cause an issue to an inattentive driver.

Sure, it seems out of place given knowledge of the highway history, but that old chestnut about the 90s restructuring being so very disruptive is not backed up empirically.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 22, 2015, 03:46:36 PM
Sure, it seems out of place given knowledge of the highway history, but that old chestnut about the 90s restructuring being so very disruptive is not backed up empirically.

I would say that fact is, at best, debatable.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 22, 2015, 05:29:36 PM
Sure, it seems out of place given knowledge of the highway history, but that old chestnut about the 90s restructuring being so very disruptive is not backed up empirically.

I would say that fact is, at best, debatable.

Okay, let’s go through it then.  :-P

Apparently the numbers were off in my first post. The actual segments:


75 segments had the numbering retained as is:

Numbering maintained:
2 Tilbury to Hamilton
2 Hamilton-Toronto (no numbering applied, but was unassumed and known by names to begin with)
2 Toronto to Ganaoque
2 Gananoque to Lancaster
2A
3 Port Colborne
3 Fort Erie
4 north of Clinton
4 south of Talbotville
5 west of Peters Cors.
5 east of Clappisons Cors.
6 south of Port Dover
7 Brampton to Markham
8 Kitchener-Cambridge
8 Hamilton
12 Durham
14
15 south of 401
19 south of Tillsonburg
20
22
24 south of Simcoe
24A
25 south of Acton
25 north of Grand Valley
27 south of Barrie
27 north of Midhurst
28 south of Peterborough
29
31
32
33
34
36
38
41
42
43
45
46
48 northern segment
49
50
52
55
56
59 south of Courtland
62 Maynooth to Barrys Bay
73
74
76
78
79
80
81
83
84
86 west of Elmira
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
95
96
99
117
118
121 south of Haliburton
136
169 south leg
169 north leg
420

39 segments in which the route was renumbered to provide greater route continuity:

QEW – Gardiner transition at more logical point, a major interchange
3 – Leamington to Wheatley – incorporated into local road network
6 – Alvanley to Hepworth incorporated into county network
7 west of Thedford – renumbered to provide clearer navigation – CR-22 E-W, CR-79 N-S
7 – rerouted to better bypass Peterborough
7A – renumbered to provide proper through route for Hwy 7
15 – Carleton Place to Arnprior - Complete numerical consistency within section isolated from other, reversion to earlier number
16 – 416 to central Ottawa – consistent number for isolated segment
16 – renumbered to Hwy 416 with freeway upgrades
17 – now 174 in Ottawa
18 – fully incorporated into municipal network
19 – Ingersoll to St. Marys – isolated route number is continuous
19 – Stratford to Tralee – incorporated into county network
21 – south of 401 – incorporated into county network, transition at major junction (Hwy 401)
23 – highway rerouted, old segment incorporated into sequential CR system
24 – Paris to Brantford – rerouted onto more appropriate through route
24 – Shelburne to Collingwood – consistent number for isolated segment
25 – isolated segment between Acton and Ospringe has consistent number
25 – portion between Brisbane and Waldemar incorporated into RR-24 through route
28 – Peterborough to Lakefield – bypassed segment given new consistent number
35A – incorporated into county network
40 – south of 401 – incorporated into county network, transition at major junction (Hwy 401)
44 – extension of RR-49
51 – incorporated into longer CR-15
54 – N-S portion incorporated into through route of CR-18, E-W portion to Cayuga has consistent number
62 – Complete numerical consistency within section isolated from other
65 – rerouted onto more direct route
69 – renumbered to Hwy 400 with freeway upgrade
70 – renumbered to provide proper through route for Hwy 6
86 – renumbered to provide greater continuity with regional network, reversion to earlier number of Hwy 85
115 – highway rerouted, bypassed segment reverted to municipal names, Hwy 115 ends at more logical point (freeway end)
121 – Fenlon Falls to Minden, Now CR-21, so number is somewhat retained, isolated from unrelated section
121 – Haliburton to Hwy 28, incorporated into Hwy 118 through route
131 – incorporated into CR-27, a more direct routing
133 – incorporated into longer CR-4
134 - renumbered to provide proper through route for Hwy 28
148 – numerical consistency with county road


14 segments with numerical discontinuity:

2 – Windsor to Tilbury - numerical discontinuity at Essex-CK line
3 – Leamington bypass – incorporated into local road network, through movement turns from E-W to N-S
3 – Leamington to Talbotville - numerical discontinuity at Essex-CK line
7 – numerical discontinuity at Halton-Peel line
9 – Western segment connects into CR-109, proposal to renumber to Hwy 109 was rejected by local governments
11 – numerical discontinuity at York-Simcoe line
17 – numerical discontinuity at Ottawa-P&R line
47 – numerical discontinuity at York-Durham line
53 – numerical discontinuity at Oxford-Brant line
58 – Welland segment goes into RR-54
67 – south of Hwy 11 is named road
24 – numerical discontinuity at Waterloo-Wellington line
24 – numerical discontinuity at Wellington-Peel line
59 – numerical discontinuity at Oxford-Perth line


That being said, 4 of those 14 are where the highway goes from “xx” to “1xx” which isn’t rocket surgery to figure out. Additionally, there is very little through traffic at Tilbury (Hwy 2) and on Wheatley (Hwy 3). The balance of that, is yes, a little shaky. But not unmanageable.

And yes, this does omit B-routes, which are deliberately avoided due to concerns with 911 dispatch, and secondary highways that were transferred because I didn’t feel like going into those (though by and large they retained their numbers too).


Again, the vast majority of segments that were transferred either retained their numbers, or had their numbers changed to provide greater consistency. Sure, it’s harder to follow the old route of a road like Highway 25 without changing numbers, but the reason it was changed was that there wasn’t demand to do that.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 22, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
The loss of route hierarchy, additional duplication of important routes in a county...  I get your point I just don't agree with your assessment.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on April 22, 2015, 11:24:34 PM
I wouldn't say this sign is redundant.  In this case, Regional Road 7 is named Highway 7.  In this example, it is signed as it should be.

What if I changed it to {401} Highway 401?  Or {55} Interstate 55?  It very much is redundant to have a shield stating the route number and then repeating it with the text right afterward.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with Ontario's route classification system.  The \7/ refers to regional (or county) road.  In this case, York Regional Road 7 is also named Highway 7.  A regional road shield, often dubbed a flowerpot by roadgeeks (\_/) is not synonymous with a road being a highway.  If it was named and signed as "\7/ York Road 7" than it could be considered redundant.

I wasn't familiar with that. Thanks for explaining. Still, it would be nice for 7 to have a real name "XX Road" or something, other than "Highway 7".
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on April 23, 2015, 09:52:15 AM
The loss of route hierarchy, additional duplication of important routes in a county...  I get your point I just don't agree with your assessment.


I'll agree to disagree with you on the hierarchy point, though in terms of the duplication of routes, I think the issue has less to do with signage/guidance and more to do with service delivery. it would really benefit the province if the Ministry were to get back into the assumption and transfer of highways, but at this point it's not a financial reality. There are a few routes MTO has that really ought to be local, and there are a lot of major through routes that ought to be taken over - or taken back - by the province. But at this point, things are pretty frozen unfortunately.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on April 23, 2015, 12:35:14 PM
A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:


Cool pics, thanks for sharing them!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Haeleus on May 01, 2015, 02:14:51 PM
I've always wondered since I've lived all my life in Ontario, but what is the historical reason provincial highways are portrayed differently on guide signs (number in a crown) vs. re-assurance shields on the side of the road (number in crest with a crown on top of it)? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single other example of this being done in any jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on May 01, 2015, 02:30:14 PM
I've always wondered since I've lived all my life in Ontario, but what is the historical reason provincial highways are portrayed differently on guide signs (number in a crown) vs. re-assurance shields on the side of the road (number in crest with a crown on top of it)? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single other example of this being done in any jurisdiction.

British Columbia uses slighty simplified shields on guide signs. But certainly Ontario is the most extreme example.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 01, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
I've always wondered since I've lived all my life in Ontario, but what is the historical reason provincial highways are portrayed differently on guide signs (number in a crown) vs. re-assurance shields on the side of the road (number in crest with a crown on top of it)? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single other example of this being done in any jurisdiction.

British Columbia uses slighty simplified shields on guide signs. But certainly Ontario is the most extreme example.

There is a thread on the differences between BGS shields and stand alone shields and trailblazers.

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14484.0

I know Ontario has been doing that for awhile now, probably since the 50's. I guess the standalone shield is too complicated to see on a BGS.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 04, 2015, 08:59:47 AM
I took some new photos of the eastern extension of Hwy 407 through Durham Region east of Toronto:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108_ne_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_cl_108_WB_east_t_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108-75_nw_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_126_east_Apr15.jpg)

The entire gallery of photos (including larger versions of the above) can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 04, 2015, 10:51:38 AM
I took some new photos of the eastern extension of Hwy 407 through Durham Region east of Toronto:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108_ne_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_cl_108_WB_east_t_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108-75_nw_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_126_east_Apr15.jpg)

The entire gallery of photos (including larger versions of the above) can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm

Sweet. Hopefully they have it open in time. Will the new 407 be tolled?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on May 04, 2015, 11:08:52 AM
I guess the standalone shield is too complicated to see on a BGS.

Exactly. The simplified version is for junctions as it is a cleaner look and more easily seen in those more cluttered situations. The more detailed shield is just for assurance markers.

And not just for freeway-sized signs either.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/60_sign_muskoka3.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_sign_jct_cosign19_Jan04.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_20-29_images/23_jct_new.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 04, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
I took some new photos of the eastern extension of Hwy 407 through Durham Region east of Toronto:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108_ne_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_cl_108_WB_east_t_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108-75_nw_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_126_east_Apr15.jpg)

The entire gallery of photos (including larger versions of the above) can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm

Sweet. Hopefully they have it open in time. Will the new 407 be tolled?

The extension of the 407 as well as both the 412 and 418 will be tolled.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aboges26 on May 04, 2015, 08:35:45 PM
I took some new photos of the eastern extension of Hwy 407 through Durham Region east of Toronto:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108_ne_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_cl_108_WB_east_t_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_108-75_nw_Apr15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/04-Apr/407E_structure_126_east_Apr15.jpg)

The entire gallery of photos (including larger versions of the above) can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm

Sweet. Hopefully they have it open in time. Will the new 407 be tolled?

The extension of the 407 as well as both the 412 and 418 will be tolled.

And it will be tolled by the MTO, not a private entity?  Correct?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 04, 2015, 09:05:55 PM
And it will be tolled by the MTO, not a private entity?  Correct?

That's right.  The 407 East has been tendered as a design-build-operate-maintain project.  So it will be maintained by the private sector, but tolls will be set by the province of Ontario.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 05, 2015, 09:40:37 PM
And it will be tolled by the MTO, not a private entity?  Correct?

That's right.  The 407 East has been tendered as a design-build-operate-maintain project.  So it will be maintained by the private sector, but tolls will be set by the province of Ontario.

I guess that is the first toll freeway in Ontario then that is not completely private. I wonder how Ontario will sign this.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on May 06, 2015, 09:31:07 AM
And it will be tolled by the MTO, not a private entity?  Correct?

That's right.  The 407 East has been tendered as a design-build-operate-maintain project.  So it will be maintained by the private sector, but tolls will be set by the province of Ontario.

I guess that is the first toll freeway in Ontario then that is not completely private. I wonder how Ontario will sign this.

The ETR section was under a relatively similar sort of arrangement before the current service model was adopted in 1999.

In terms of signage, there was a myriad of different options we looked a while back, though I left that project before I'd seen what the final design was.
Just speculating, but perhaps the mock-up in the background here offers clues?

http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/5543671-province-announces-plans-for-second-phase-of-highway-407-extension/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 06, 2015, 08:09:28 PM
And it will be tolled by the MTO, not a private entity?  Correct?

That's right.  The 407 East has been tendered as a design-build-operate-maintain project.  So it will be maintained by the private sector, but tolls will be set by the province of Ontario.

I guess that is the first toll freeway in Ontario then that is not completely private. I wonder how Ontario will sign this.

The ETR section was under a relatively similar sort of arrangement before the current service model was adopted in 1999.

In terms of signage, there was a myriad of different options we looked a while back, though I left that project before I'd seen what the final design was.
Just speculating, but perhaps the mock-up in the background here offers clues?

http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/5543671-province-announces-plans-for-second-phase-of-highway-407-extension/

Wow. That's interesting. I was thinking it would look more of this, but I guess that looks good too:

(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b551/slik_sh00ter/412%20TO%20407%20Exit_zpseude85ht.png)

A full tech drawing:

(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b551/slik_sh00ter/412%20TO%20407_zpsdsa5yori.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 07, 2015, 07:54:59 AM
That wouldn't be a bad solution.  It seems more likely that toll tabs are going to be used, similar to those used in the US.  I was kind of hoping they would retain the pill bottom shape shield that was used for the 407 ETR (but drop the ETR), but that doesn't seem like it will be the case.

Of course, I don't actually know anything, so we shall see.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on May 07, 2015, 12:59:07 PM
That wouldn't be a bad solution.  It seems more likely that toll tabs are going to be used, similar to those used in the US.  I was kind of hoping they would retain the pill bottom shape shield that was used for the 407 ETR (but drop the ETR), but that doesn't seem like it will be the case.

Of course, I don't actually know anything, so we shall see.

They seem big on stressing the public ownership, so I can see the logic in staying in line with the standard marker there.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on May 14, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
New bridge linking Windsor and Detroit to be named the "Gordie Howe International Bridge"

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/live-stream-prime-minister-stephen-harper-makes-announcement-at-valiant-in-windsor
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 15, 2015, 01:50:14 AM
New bridge linking Windsor and Detroit to be named the "Gordie Howe International Bridge"

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/live-stream-prime-minister-stephen-harper-makes-announcement-at-valiant-in-windsor

Well, I'm glad they're moving forward with this project.

They still need to acquire land on the US side and connect that with I-75. Also, the rest of the 401 hasn't been built past the Ojibway Pkwy. By 2020 though, at least the roads will be built.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on May 18, 2015, 05:00:32 PM
Victoria Day Fireworks seen from Hamilton's parkways

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 18, 2015, 06:02:24 PM
Victoria Day Fireworks seen from Hamilton's parkways


I used to live just off Upper Paradise near that metal fencing in the median, 3:23 in your video but difficult to see. There is an underpass there I crossed frequently in my childhood.

Thanks for uploading.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 29, 2015, 10:07:58 PM
The temporary HOV lane markings that are being added for the PanAm games have been added to the 401 through Scarborough and Durham Region:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_tempHOV.jpg)

The HOV lanes will be in effect from June 29, and require three occupants for travel.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 30, 2015, 12:12:40 AM
The temporary HOV lane markings that are being added for the PanAm games have been added to the 401 through Scarborough and Durham Region:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_tempHOV.jpg)

The HOV lanes will be in effect from June 29, and require three occupants for travel.

I wonder how much the PamAm games will affect the traffic on the 401. I guess the MTO decided to install HOV lanes there just in case.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 30, 2015, 12:12:04 PM
^ I expect the PanAm games to have a significant effect on traffic on the 401 as well as other GTA highways.  In addition to sections on the 401, various other highways within the GTA will also get temporary HOV lanes, including both the DVP and Gardiner/QEW.  The MTO is hoping to see a 20% reduction in travel within the GTA this summer during the PanAm games.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mrsman on May 31, 2015, 01:58:47 PM
The temporary HOV lane markings that are being added for the PanAm games have been added to the 401 through Scarborough and Durham Region:


The HOV lanes will be in effect from June 29, and require three occupants for travel.

Why only temporary?  To me, HOV seems like a good idea on any corridor with significant carpooling potential, especially a corridor as wide as 401.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on May 31, 2015, 02:05:14 PM
Long-term HOV probably wouldn't work on 401 due to the nature of the beast. The QEW, for example, gets a lot of long-distance HOV traffic, so the HOV lanes makes sense. With how 401 is set up, you'd need to construct additional ramps to allow HOV vehicles to exit at their destinations, as few travel the length of the corridor.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on May 31, 2015, 03:19:41 PM
Plus the HOV lanes are not new - the are converted from existing lanes.  Thus, the overall capacity of the road is going DOWN so that free-flow can be guaranteed for carpools.  They're essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul in terms of congestion.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 31, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
Some pictures of the 417 construction related to the LRT construction in eastern Ottawa:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_114-5_west_May15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_116_west_May15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_117-5_west_May15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_118_west_May15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_116_east_EB_May15_forum.jpg)
Easterly view from the Belfast Road overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_east_WB_May15_forum.jpg)
Easterly view along the 417 towards the new pedestrian overpass from the Vanier Parkway overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_west_WB_May15_forum.jpg)
Westerly view towards the Rideau River bridge from the Vanier Parkway overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_121-25_west_May15_forum.jpg)

I've also uploaded some new photos of Hwy 400 north of Barrie:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Hwy400_p3_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Hwy400_p3_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on May 31, 2015, 05:28:13 PM
Some pictures of the 417 construction related to the LRT construction in eastern Ottawa:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_114-5_west_May15_forum.jpg)

If this sign is new, I'm not impressed with the series B and the compressed Em usage.   :angry:

Also, I think Ontario should try out APL's. They have been proven to be clearer than diagrammatics. Can't blame anyone for this sign though, the traffic manual hasn't been updated since 2005 I think.

Some pictures of the 417 construction related to the LRT construction in eastern Ottawa:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_121-25_west_May15_forum.jpg)

The new VMS that Ontario is now using has really grown on me. The pictogram and bilingualism made it more difficult to understand. But this one is really clear and easy to understand.

This construction has been going on awhile now, even since I lived there. I'm hoping it's completed soon. Great pics as always.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on May 31, 2015, 05:34:40 PM
Ontario uses modified APLs for option lanes in quite a few locations. Not full width, but there's a pictogram showing how many lanes exit.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 31, 2015, 05:45:33 PM
The new signage along the 417 through eastern Ottawa is a little bit of mis-mash right now.  The extra lane on the 417 will initially be opened as a transit lane to facilitate construction of Ottawa's LRT.  Once the LRT has been completed, the new lane will be converted to a general purpose highway lane, which will necessitate fairly significant changes to the current highway signing plan.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mrsman on June 01, 2015, 07:00:14 PM
Plus the HOV lanes are not new - the are converted from existing lanes.  Thus, the overall capacity of the road is going DOWN so that free-flow can be guaranteed for carpools.  They're essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul in terms of congestion.

I know that in most of the US, it's politically infeasible to convert existing general lanes to HOV, but I've always wondered why.  If a roadway has enough traffic that can benefit from carpooling, why not make it harder for general traffic in the hopes that more would take a bus or carpool.

We are not talking about a freeway with two or three lanes here.  From the picture, there appears to be 7 lanes in each direction, plus transition lanes to exits.  The idea is to reserve 1/7 of the capacity for the HOVs.

Now, if it won't be adequately utilized because of lack of ingress/egress ramps, then maybe it doesn't work here.  But I don't think HOV conversion should be ruled out unless new lanes are constructed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on June 01, 2015, 09:03:26 PM
Most of ON 401 in Toronto is six lanes each direction (three express, three collector); this photo appears to be in the middle of a transfer, which is why there are four shown in the express.  The express lanes have very few direct exits/entrances; almost all access is from the periodic transfers every few km.

As far as making commuting more painful to encourage carpooling/transit... why should I have my life become harder just because I'm an introvert who doesn't like to live according to anyone else's schedule?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mrsman on June 01, 2015, 11:27:55 PM
Most of ON 401 in Toronto is six lanes each direction (three express, three collector); this photo appears to be in the middle of a transfer, which is why there are four shown in the express.  The express lanes have very few direct exits/entrances; almost all access is from the periodic transfers every few km.

As far as making commuting more painful to encourage carpooling/transit... why should I have my life become harder just because I'm an introvert who doesn't like to live according to anyone else's schedule?

And at the same time, why should the public be forced to shoulder the expense of widening a road that is already very wide to handle even more traffic, when certain mitigation measures can be used to manage the resource more appropriately?

In my view, any limited access road that is at least 8 lanes wide should be subject to alteration without the necessity for widening.  Widening would be a huge expense.  But perhaps HOV, HOT or toll lanes are in order.  Maybe a reversible lane operation would also work.

It's just hard to believe that a highway this wide can't dedicate one lane to carpoolers and transit without the need to widen the highway even further.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 02, 2015, 10:51:17 AM
1. The purpose of the temporary HOV is to provide access for games officials and participants, VIPs, etc as well as the 3+ HOV. It's a case where the needs of the games were determined to be of greater importance than the need to move traffic.

It's just hard to believe that a highway this wide can't dedicate one lane to carpoolers and transit without the need to widen the highway even further.

2. Well, believe it, because that road is incredibly busy. Just looking at the hourly volumes for the location in that picture, if one lane were converted the road would likely be overloaded for all but the hours of 9:00 pm to 6:00 am every weeknight. Weekends would get more time in the morning, but busier later into the evening. Further west it gets even worse.

There are many effective ways to manage traffic demand, but converting existing GPL to HOV is like trying to lose weight by hacking off a limb.

Long-term HOV probably wouldn't work on 401 due to the nature of the beast. The QEW, for example, gets a lot of long-distance HOV traffic, so the HOV lanes makes sense. With how 401 is set up, you'd need to construct additional ramps to allow HOV vehicles to exit at their destinations, as few travel the length of the corridor.

3. Travel patterns on Hwy 401 vs. the QEW tend to be more of the long distance type of travel. The reason why HOV is looked at for QEW and not 401 through Toronto has more to do with available real estate and less to do with traffic demand.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 1995hoo on June 02, 2015, 10:51:14 PM
The text on that VMS is really sharp. Wish ours here could be so legible.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 02, 2015, 11:02:45 PM
The text on that VMS is really sharp. Wish ours here could be so legible.

Agreed. The new ones are much better than the ones on the roadways now (like the 401).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/new-ontario-highway-signs-aim-to-show-not-tell-1.2919559
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on June 11, 2015, 07:56:44 PM
Toronto City Council has voted to replace the eastern Gardiner Expressway with a hybrid option.

(http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/city_hall/2013/01/08/gardiner_expressway_study_to_be_resurrected/gardiner.jpeg)

(http://urbantoronto.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/display-default/images/articles/2015/06/16220/16220-54527.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dp9DmYq.jpg)

First exciting thing to happen since Rob Ford. He was at the meeting in a track suit, and was as the only person who voted to maintain the existing structure. Everyone else wanted to demo it or go with the hybrid option
(http://i.imgur.com/F8ebMkO.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 11, 2015, 09:18:51 PM
Toronto City Council has voted to replace the eastern Gardiner Expressway with a hybrid option.

(http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/city_hall/2013/01/08/gardiner_expressway_study_to_be_resurrected/gardiner.jpeg)

(http://urbantoronto.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/display-default/images/articles/2015/06/16220/16220-54527.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dp9DmYq.jpg)

I'm a little confused. The hybrid option does what exactly?

First exciting thing to happen since Rob Ford. He was at the meeting in a track suit, and was as the only person who voted to maintain the existing structure. Everyone else wanted to demo it or go with the hybrid option
(http://i.imgur.com/F8ebMkO.jpg)

Good old Rob Ford.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 11, 2015, 09:54:03 PM
Hybrid removes all connections except for the Gardiner-DVP movement and builds a ground-level boulevard. While the Star doesn't like it, it's better than removing everything because the freeway-freeway connection is retained.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 12, 2015, 10:56:22 AM
MTO has called the contract to realign Hwy 66 around Virginiatown.

The highway is being realigned due to stability issues from the abandoned mine underneath the town and highway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mgk920 on June 12, 2015, 12:08:10 PM
Hybrid removes all connections except for the Gardiner-DVP movement and builds a ground-level boulevard. While the Star doesn't like it, it's better than removing everything because the freeway-freeway connection is retained.

I agree, the Hybrid looks far and away best to me - especially with all of the development that is expected in that former industrial wasteland area within the foreseeable future.  That area reminds me a LOT of the area around Lake Shore Drive (US 41) and Wacker Drive in Chicago.

Since the Gardner is not going to be extended eastward as originally planned, in light of that expected development, I would have also opposed the 'rebuild as is' option.

Mike
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 14, 2015, 10:15:37 AM
Also, I remember a old discussion on the mailing list Canroads https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/canroads/conversations/topics/3330 about an upgrade of Hwy-11 between Barrie and Orillia into a 6-lanes freeway on the current alignement or using a new corridor to replace the current RIRO setup. I wonder how's the MTO study of this highway gap goes?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on June 14, 2015, 11:45:44 AM
Interesting photos of when Toronto demolished the eastern Gardiner.

(http://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/06/20150609-Gardiner-LeadAlt.jpg)

More pics
http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/06/that_time_when_toronto_demolished_the_gardiner/ (http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/06/that_time_when_toronto_demolished_the_gardiner/)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 14, 2015, 09:42:28 PM
The Pan Am games wouldn't have created any traffic really. I mean there is practically ZERO interest in this event from the citizens of this city and region. Just like that awful event 5 years ago in a couple of weeks, the Pan Am games are nothing more than a burden on Toronto with how the government is treating this. I've supported an Olympic Bid in the past for Toronto because I think it's the only thing that can be a wake up call to this entire region in terms of transportation infrastructure. Hosting the winter games is child's play compared to the summer games, but Vancouver got a freaking rapid transit line to the airport due to the Olympics.

So the government, especially since the turn over of the Liberals in 2003, have implemented more of their social engineering policies when it comes to how we commute. As I've said in the past, the QEW was supposed to have a 10-lane cross section in Halton Region....and well we know what we got.

Wasn't income tax supposed to be temporary, I don't believe a thing the government says, and I won't be surprised if these HOV lanes turn into a form of HOT lanes. On the 401 today, they had the nerve to display on the VMS "Avoid Rush Hour Traffic During Pan Am Games", excuse me? Who do you think you are? People work for a living, government, to pay for your disgusting nonsense that no one here wanted like the Pan Am games.

When not displaying traffic information, Ontario's VMSs in the GTA usually display political messages to take transit, or to ride your bike, excuse me, I like my freedom and I will not rely on a bunch of buses, with people who do disgusting behaviors, diseases, and what not. I will not spend 3 hours to get to the other side of the region on a bunch of extremely slow buses.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 16, 2015, 08:06:14 AM
Some new pictures of Hwy 417 through Kanata.  Hwy 417 was widened through Kanata over two multi-year construction projects that were completed in 2014:

Some photos:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_144_east_May14.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_144_east_c_May15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_142_east_c_May15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_141_east_c_May15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_141-5_west_May15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_138_east_May15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_138_west_May15.jpg)

The full set of photos, including larger versions of the above photos can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy417_p5a_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dcbjms on June 16, 2015, 08:36:55 AM
Looking nice all 'round, even Scotiabank Place (don't ever ask me to call it Canadian Tire Centre - all I remember hearing it called back when I went to uni was either Scotiabank Place or the Corel Centre).  The 417 needed that widening, in any case - now if it could just be expanded past Arnprior.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 16, 2015, 11:06:59 AM
I remember when they did that construction since I used to live in Ottawa.  It was a nightmare to drive when there was a hockey game at the nearby stadium.

The MTO wants to widen the 417 to Renfrew first. Hopefully that will be done in the next few years.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 16, 2015, 01:50:12 PM
Port this over from the Hwy 17 tangent in the 401 thread...

Have there been any bypass-type concepts for the Soo?  Would there be any interchanges on a bypass of the Soo or would it be at-grade completely?

To the first question, conceptually yes, but nothing firm. It was a few years ago, but at that point the next phase was to connect the existing 4 lane divided Garden River Bypass into Second Line (the existing E-W alignment along the north side of the city), but that's been put on the back burner for the next decade or so.

In terms of intersection treatments and/or grade separations, that's a decision that it's way to premature to address at this point.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: maplestar on June 16, 2015, 06:20:42 PM
Looking nice all 'round, even Scotiabank Place (don't ever ask me to call it Canadian Tire Centre - all I remember hearing it called back when I went to uni was either Scotiabank Place or the Corel Centre).  The 417 needed that widening, in any case - now if it could just be expanded past Arnprior.

Really? I can see some justification for wanting to still call it The Palladium, but why insist on one of two former sponsored names over the current sponsored name?

Edited to add: I grew up in Arnprior and lived in the area until about 7 or 8 years ago, hence my interest.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 16, 2015, 06:44:18 PM
Looking nice all 'round, even Scotiabank Place (don't ever ask me to call it Canadian Tire Centre - all I remember hearing it called back when I went to uni was either Scotiabank Place or the Corel Centre).  The 417 needed that widening, in any case - now if it could just be expanded past Arnprior.

Really? I can see some justification for wanting to still call it The Palladium, but why insist on one of two former sponsored names over the current sponsored name?

The newer name (Canadian Tire Centre) was not well liked for people who lived there. I remember when they changed it, and I didn't really appreciate it then either. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just I guess the older names just "sound better".
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dcbjms on June 17, 2015, 07:17:18 PM
Looking nice all 'round, even Scotiabank Place (don't ever ask me to call it Canadian Tire Centre - all I remember hearing it called back when I went to uni was either Scotiabank Place or the Corel Centre).  The 417 needed that widening, in any case - now if it could just be expanded past Arnprior.

Really? I can see some justification for wanting to still call it The Palladium, but why insist on one of two former sponsored names over the current sponsored name?

Edited to add: I grew up in Arnprior and lived in the area until about 7 or 8 years ago, hence my interest.

Throughout my time at uni it was Scotiabank Place; earlier tourist literature and some people who took longer than usual to catch on used Corel Centre, so I heard and used both.  It's why I avoid calling the local big arena in RI the Dunkin' Donuts Center (or The Dunk -  :paranoid: - for short) and use the Civic Center instead - only in that case I grew up calling it the Civic Center and nothing is going to make me change that.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 18, 2015, 09:47:08 AM
The last site in the redevelopment of the Highway 400 and Highway 401 service centres has opened.

http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/5677801-hwy-400-commuters-welcome-new-innisfil-onroute/

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aboges26 on June 18, 2015, 07:48:25 PM
Port this over from the Hwy 17 tangent in the 401 thread...

Have there been any bypass-type concepts for the Soo?  Would there be any interchanges on a bypass of the Soo or would it be at-grade completely?

To the first question, conceptually yes, but nothing firm. It was a few years ago, but at that point the next phase was to connect the existing 4 lane divided Garden River Bypass into Second Line (the existing E-W alignment along the north side of the city), but that's been put on the back burner for the next decade or so.

In terms of intersection treatments and/or grade separations, that's a decision that it's way to premature to address at this point.

Thank you for importing this over!  I had conveniently forgotten what the main topic of the other thread was in order to pick your brain...

I was surprised that the Garden River Bypass never ended up at Second Line, it seemed destined after how much Carmen's Way helped get from the International Bridge to Hwy 17 north.  Was it put on the back burner for financial reasons or did the businesses along Trunk Rd not want to be bypassed?  Also, what are the chances that Second Line would instead get extended east to Trunk?  Specifically extending Second Line due east then having it curve southeasterly to meet Trunk Rd near Fournier Rd so Hwy 17 can instead form a "T" with its current curve to Trunk and curve off northwesterly to meet 17 north before or after Fifth Line?

Lastly, why was the northern end of the Garden River Bypass even proposed?  To me, the sweeping arc back to Trunk is a waste and it would have made more sense to have shifted its materials and labor on a more direct alignment that would have reduced MTO's future maintenance responsibility by shifting more kilometers of Hwy 17 back to local jurisdictions while also shaving off Hwy 17's total distance.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 19, 2015, 10:38:22 AM

Thank you for importing this over!  I had conveniently forgotten what the main topic of the other thread was in order to pick your brain...

I was surprised that the Garden River Bypass never ended up at Second Line, it seemed destined after how much Carmen's Way helped get from the International Bridge to Hwy 17 north.  Was it put on the back burner for financial reasons or did the businesses along Trunk Rd not want to be bypassed? 

To route it further to the west than it is now would require crossing an additional First Nations territory. Which is always possible, it just requires more negotiation and political sensitivity than a regular expropriation. They opted not to do that back when the Garden River Bypass was built, and will resume negotiations once MTO gets a better sense of when the project will actually move forward.

Also, what are the chances that Second Line would instead get extended east to Trunk?  Specifically extending Second Line due east then having it curve southeasterly to meet Trunk Rd near Fournier Rd so Hwy 17 can instead form a "T" with its current curve to Trunk and curve off northwesterly to meet 17 north before or after Fifth Line?

Lastly, why was the northern end of the Garden River Bypass even proposed?  To me, the sweeping arc back to Trunk is a waste and it would have made more sense to have shifted its materials and labor on a more direct alignment that would have reduced MTO's future maintenance responsibility by shifting more kilometers of Hwy 17 back to local jurisdictions while also shaving off Hwy 17's total distance.

The ultimate alignment would have to balance between providing access to Sault Ste. Marie and the international bridge, as well as providing a through routing. So that access would not be well-served by a route that sweeps too far out away from the city.

While I do not know the precise alignment that has been envisioned, from a practical perspective the ideal staging would be thus:

So ultimately, the small connectors that would not tie into the Hwy 17 mainline when all is said and done will still provide strategic access. I would imagine that the N-S connector that would be taken out of the existing Garden River Bypass alignment would be a candidate for transfer to the municipality, though even if MTO were stuck with it for a while they would only have a few km of road. The E-W connector would be worth keeping given its access to the international bridge, so it would be necessary otherwise.

I would not expect to see the N-S bypass constructed anytime soon. While there are a number of small towns with services along its route, there really isn't a centre of note until you reach Thunder Bay, over 700 km away. Most traffic does make a stop in the Soo before continuing northwesterly along the Lake Superior shore (and the inverse, first stop after a long run of nearly nothing). But in terms of the route, they do want to plan for an protect the corridor, but that so that they can build it more easily decades down the road.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 20, 2015, 09:35:04 AM
A couple of new photos of various construction projects on the 401 in the GTA:

Construction is still ongoing at the Mavis Road overpass.  It doesn't seem like a lot of work has been done this construction season to be honest:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_339_east_EB_Jun15_forum.jpg)

A couple of views of the 401 through the future Hwy 412 interchange.  Paving work is ongoing for the future eastbound lanes of the 401:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_407_west_EB_C_Jun19-15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_407_east_NEB_Jun19-15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_structure_407_oldLakeRidge_Jul19-15_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 20, 2015, 09:27:40 PM
A couple of new photos of various construction projects on the 401 in the GTA:

It doesn't seem like a lot of work has been done this construction season to be honest:

[snipped]

Beginning of the construction season I guess. Or do they work over the winter? Either way, the Second Line West bridge (I presume where you took this pic) is still there, not demolished yet.

A couple of views of the 401 through the future Hwy 412 interchange.  Paving work is ongoing for the future eastbound lanes of the 401:

[pics]

Wait, the MTO is moving the eastbound lanes as well? I'm confused. Last year, they moved the westbound lanes further north to its present position, but now they want to move the eastbound lanes north as well? Or are they making collectors? Maybe they need some space to put the on-ramps to the 412 together.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 27, 2015, 02:52:47 PM
A couple of photos of Highway 427 in northern Etobicoke.  The MTO is currently constructing HOV lanes along this portion of freeway:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_south_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_w_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_t_Jun15_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on July 13, 2015, 10:46:38 AM
A couple of photos of Highway 427 in northern Etobicoke.  The MTO is currently constructing HOV lanes along this portion of freeway:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_south_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_w_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_t_Jun15_forum.jpg)

I don't get why this is a priority when it is only going to end at 401, and not add two GP lanes instead.  The hwy clearly need to be extended to at least Angus if not Barrie as was laid out in early 2000's.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 13, 2015, 12:21:36 PM
A couple of photos of Highway 427 in northern Etobicoke.  The MTO is currently constructing HOV lanes along this portion of freeway:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_south_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_w_Jun15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/427_cl_17_north_t_Jun15_forum.jpg)

I don't get why this is a priority when it is only going to end at 401, and not add two GP lanes instead.  The hwy clearly need to be extended to at least Angus if not Barrie as was laid out in early 2000's.

I didn't look, but perhaps AADT's for that area are high enough that the MTO decided to widen the highway here first, rather than extend the freeway north. There's not much up there right now, so I guess they decided to wait. Just a guess on my part.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 18, 2015, 09:02:54 PM
^ The 427 is a busy road all the way to Hwy 7.  HOV or not, it very much makes sense to widen the 427 before the freeway is extended further to the north.  Otherwise, traffic coming from the north along the future extension will simply be able to get to the traffic jam south of finch faster than they could without the freeway extension.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 18, 2015, 10:53:55 PM
Some additional sign replacement photos:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Sep13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Sep13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Jul15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348_east_C_Sep13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348_east_C_Sep13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348_east_C_Jul15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348_east_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348-5_east_C_Sep13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348-5_east_C_Sep13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348-5_east_C_Jul15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_348-5_east_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 18, 2015, 11:04:28 PM
Some additional sign replacement photos:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Sep13.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Sep13_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Jul15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_347-5_east_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg

Well, at least the exit number is now posted at Renforth Drive. I like the single pole gantry design. Glad Ontario likes it too.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 19, 2015, 08:41:10 AM
I don't mind the single post gantry either, but I think the 407 uses a better design than the MTO does.  I quite like the signs that were installed at this location.  I appreciate the fact that the sign designer took the time to match the sign heights of all of the signs at both the Renforth exit and the diverge to the 427 ramp.  Though, I think the 427 signs probably should have been switched to blue in colour.  (Once a ramp splits from the collector lanes, either blue or green is used, it's not always consistent.)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 19, 2015, 11:59:31 AM
After checking your website and Streetview, there doesn't appear to many of those classic gantries left for the entire length of the 401 in Toronto. The MTO has aggressively replaced them it looks like, probably for safety or aesthetics.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 19, 2015, 12:59:23 PM
There are only about 5 or 6 of the old style gantries along the 401 across the length of the province.  There are still a few on both the 407 and the 410.  The ones on the 410 will be replaced in the next few years as part of a highway widening project.  The old gantries along the 407 probably still have some shelf life though, at least on the sections of the tollway that aren't going to be widened for the next few years.

During inspections, many of the old gantries (called 'Type 1' or 'Aluminum Tapered Leg' gantries) showed some fatigue cracking in some of the welds of the truss which were revealed to be problematic.  As I understand it, this was one of the principal reasons for their replacement.  The report on their replacement also mentioned that some of the weld qualities weren't always that great either.  The other problem with this design (which is shared with the 'Type 2' / 'Aluminum Rectangular Leg' gantries) is that the gantries are rigid, which over time can lead to fatigue cracking caused by regular expansion and contraction of the aluminum during temperature changes.

I've been told though, that while the Type 3 gantries alleviate the problems associated with both the Type 1 and 2 gantries, designing the bracketing assembly that affixes the sign panel to the truss is a lot more difficult on the type 3 gantries than it was on the older designs.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 20, 2015, 11:18:15 PM
Pan-Am games HOV Lanes in Toronto area

Pretty cool, should they become permanent? (maybe 2+ after the games?)


Via http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2015/07/watch_the_hov_time-lapse_video_someone_just_created/ (http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2015/07/watch_the_hov_time-lapse_video_someone_just_created/)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
^ NO. I was on the DVP and Gardiner pretty early in the morning on a Sunday a couple weekends ago. LOS D-E in the general-purpose lanes while the HOV lanes saw only a few cars. Maybe they're more beneficial during the week, but they're useless on weekends just by the nature of travel.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on July 21, 2015, 01:04:06 PM
^ NO. I was on the DVP and Gardiner pretty early in the morning on a Sunday a couple weekends ago. LOS D-E in the general-purpose lanes while the HOV lanes saw only a few cars. Maybe they're more beneficial during the week...

I think having a single stretch of HOV works poorly, but a large system works very well. I can't imagine getting around Seattle without HOV.

...but, they're useless on weekends just by the nature of travel.

I always thought the weekend was when the family all went out together, in groups larger than 1?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 21, 2015, 01:21:09 PM
Pan-Am games HOV Lanes in Toronto area

Pretty cool, should they become permanent? (maybe 2+ after the games?)

(video)

Via http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2015/07/watch_the_hov_time-lapse_video_someone_just_created/ (http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2015/07/watch_the_hov_time-lapse_video_someone_just_created/)

Yes... if you know what I mean  :spin:  :evilgrin:


I think having a single stretch of HOV works poorly, but a large system works very well. I can't imagine getting around Seattle without HOV.

...but, they're useless on weekends just by the nature of travel.

I always thought the weekend was when the family all went out together, in groups larger than 1?

That's what I thought too.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2015, 02:54:07 PM
I meant that they're set up for long-distance travel. If you're only on for a few exits, as many people going shopping and such are, there's no reason to get over to the HOV lane because you're getting off as soon as you get over. And with them being 3+ instead of the usual 2+, you need a full car to qualify (unless, of course, you use a dummy).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 21, 2015, 04:15:50 PM
Pan-Am games HOV Lanes in Toronto area

Pretty cool, should they become permanent? (maybe 2+ after the games?)


No.

As I said earlier in this thread...


1. The purpose of the temporary HOV is to provide access for games officials and participants, VIPs, etc as well as the 3+ HOV. It's a case where the needs of the games were determined to be of greater importance than the need to move traffic.

It's just hard to believe that a highway this wide can't dedicate one lane to carpoolers and transit without the need to widen the highway even further.

2. Well, believe it, because that road is incredibly busy. Just looking at the hourly volumes for the location in that picture, if one lane were converted the road would likely be overloaded for all but the hours of 9:00 pm to 6:00 am every weeknight. Weekends would get more time in the morning, but busier later into the evening. Further west it gets even worse.

There are many effective ways to manage traffic demand, but converting existing GPL to HOV is like trying to lose weight by hacking off a limb.


Now we are seeing better performance than one would expect with the lane conversion, but that has more to do with people changing their habits for a special event than a practical solution. Yes, there is certainly a reduction in induced demand, but by converting to 2+ HOV (let alone 3+) essentially you're cutting capacity by 80% of a full lane on roads that are already overloaded. It's not sustainable, practical, or useful.

The HOV lanes are there to clear a path for the games. Not to provide any benefit to the people trying to live their everyday lives.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on July 21, 2015, 05:17:39 PM
Yes, there is certainly a reduction in induced demand, but by converting to 2+ HOV (let alone 3+) essentially you're cutting capacity by 80% of a full lane on roads that are already overloaded. It's not sustainable, practical, or useful.

The HOV lanes are there to clear a path for the games. Not to provide any benefit to the people trying to live their everyday lives.

Would you support HOV lanes if they were on all GTA freeways, with a setup akin to Seattle or Los Angeles (with things like Texas T's and HOV-to-HOV ramps)? Like I just said a few posts ago, they seem to work well if there's additional HOV lanes on other area freeways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2015, 07:28:30 PM
The HOV lanes in the GTA work when they are added on. Taking a lane away has basically angered everyone who lives in Toronto to the point where people are putting dummies in their cars or driving in the lanes alone even with the risk of a ticket. Heck, even the former mayor/current city council member uses them when the cops aren't looking. They were especially useless before the games began, when nobody was in them.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 22, 2015, 08:25:44 AM
Yes, there is certainly a reduction in induced demand, but by converting to 2+ HOV (let alone 3+) essentially you're cutting capacity by 80% of a full lane on roads that are already overloaded. It's not sustainable, practical, or useful.

The HOV lanes are there to clear a path for the games. Not to provide any benefit to the people trying to live their everyday lives.

Would you support HOV lanes if they were on all GTA freeways, with a setup akin to Seattle or Los Angeles (with things like Texas T's and HOV-to-HOV ramps)? Like I just said a few posts ago, they seem to work well if there's additional HOV lanes on other area freeways.

The GTA has experienced a fairly significant increase in HOV lane mileage since their debut in 2004.  In just over ten years the province has added about 40km of HOV lanes to the GTA's network, with another ~20 or so km currently under construction.

In all of the cities listed above, HOV lane networks were added over many decades of construction.  Specifically in LA, most of the lanes were added simply by converting the inner shoulder to an HOV lane.  In all cases, the low hanging fruit came first, with more expensive construction and HOV specific connectors coming afterwards.  I am sure that Toronto will continue to add to its HOV lane network, and will follow similar practices to other centres.  It should be noted as well, that Toronto also has a much more comprehensive transit system than virtually all cities with comprehensive HOV lane networks.  In 2011, nearly a quarter of all trips within the Toronto CMA were made on public transit.

It should be noted that within the Toronto CMA from 2006 to 2011 (the most recent figures) the amount of people who traveled to work as a passenger actually dropped during that time period.  In 2006, approximately 7.5% of people traveled to work as a passenger compared to only 5.4% who did so in 2011.  During that time, the modal share of people using public transit increased by a similar amount.  While I understand that correlation doesn't imply causation, it certainly is a reasonable conclusion to assume that at least some of the carpool traffic was cannibalized by the improvements to local and regional transit that were taking place during that time.

Transportation Modal Share information is available from StatsCan:
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-012-x2011003_1-eng.cfm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 22, 2015, 10:18:46 AM
The HOV lanes in the GTA work when they are added on. Taking a lane away has basically angered everyone who lives in Toronto to the point where people are putting dummies in their cars or driving in the lanes alone even with the risk of a ticket.

I definitely agree with you on that front, however...

Heck, even the former mayor/current city council member uses them when the cops aren't looking.

I don't think Rob Ford is exactly the best gauge of behaviour for the city.  :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 22, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
You do have to give the driver marks for creativity:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/man-charged-for-driving-with-2-mannequins-in-hov-lane-1.3143701
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 27, 2015, 07:22:07 PM
A few photos of some ongoing construction along the 401 in the eastern GTA:

Construction at the 404/DVP interchange has exposed the concrete road base of the westbound collector lanes.  The collector lanes have been reduced to two lanes through the construction zone, while a fifth lane has been temporarily added to the express.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_376_west_WB_C_Jul15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_cl_376_west_WB_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg

At Warden, the joints of the concrete are indicative of when the westbound collector lanes were only two lanes wide through the interchange.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_378_west_C_Jul15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_378_west_C_Jul15_24x16.jpg

Half of the Lakeridge Road has already been demolished.  I suspect it will be sometime before the section over the rail lines comes down.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_structure_407_southeast_Jul15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_structure_407_southeast_Jul15_24x16.jpg

View looking easterly as Highway 401 passes beneath the future ramp to the eastbound 401 from Highway 412.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_408_east_Jul26-15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_408_east_Jul26-15_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 27, 2015, 11:09:18 PM
Half of the Lakeridge Road has already been demolished.  I suspect it will be sometime before the section over the rail lines comes down.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_structure_407_southeast_Jul15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_structure_407_southeast_Jul15_24x16.jpg

View looking easterly as Highway 401 passes beneath the future ramp to the eastbound 401 from Highway 412.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_408_east_Jul26-15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/Ontroads/401_dv_408_east_Jul26-15_24x16.jpg

Will the 401 be widened at some point here? I'm surprised it's still 6 lanes, even with the new interchange being built.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 28, 2015, 08:07:59 AM
There won't be any widening to the 401 as part of the interchange work itself, but the cross-section is being designed for an eventual width of six lanes per direction west of the 412, and five lanes per direction to the east.  Eventually the collector lanes will start at the 412 interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: amroad17 on August 04, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
I have been on the 401 twice in my lifetime (once from Hamilton to the 402 in 1998 and once from the QEW to southwest of Toronto in 2001).  The Toronto-bound traffic then was something.  I cannot imagine the difficulty of driving from Hamilton to the other side of Toronto now with the additional roadwork going on up there.  I am concerned about driving I-75 through Cincinnati with the reconstruction going on there and we do not have anywhere close to the amount of traffic that the 401 in Toronto has.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 24, 2015, 08:26:04 AM
A few new photos taken of the construction along the Highway 407 corridor in Durham Region.  Construction is moving along well, but I am still not certain if they can finish the highway by the start of winter this year:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_cl_108-5_west_Aug15.jpg)
View of the then un-opened Brock Road interchange from the future Highway 407 overpass.  (The Brock Road interchange opened the day after these photos were taken).


(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_cl_109_east_t_Aug15.jpg)
View looking easterly approaching the Sideline 14 overpass.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_cl_109-25_east_Aug15.jpg)
Easterly view from the Sideline 14 overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_112_notenthused_Aug15.jpg)
Not everyone is excited about the extension of the 407.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_115_northeast_Aug15.jpg)
View of the Lake Ridge Road overpass with the temporary Lake Ridge Road diversion operated adjacent to the new overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_116_n-w-ramp_under_Aug15.jpg)
This steel structure will carry the ramp from Hwy 412 north to Hwy 407 west.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_120_west_Aug15.jpg)
View looking westerly approaching the Hwy 12 overpass.  Paving operations had just commenced in this area when this photo was taken.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_cl_125-9_east_Aug15.jpg)
Easterly view approaching the Simcoe Street overpass.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_126_northeast_Aug15.jpg)
Additional view of the Simcoe Street overpass from the future southbound to eastbound loop ramp.

For the full set, and full resolution versions of the above photos, click here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm#Aug15 (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm#Aug15)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 24, 2015, 12:27:48 PM
A few new photos taken of the construction along the Highway 407 corridor in Durham Region.  Construction is moving along well, but I am still not certain if they can finish the highway by the start of winter this year:

I suspected the same. Judging from your pictures, Streetview from cross streets from April, and satellite from June, I'd say this road won't open until next Spring or even Summer.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_structure_112_notenthused_Aug15.jpg)
Not everyone is excited about the extension of the 407.

 :-D Could be NIMBY's. They'll probably remove that before the road opens.

Once again, excellent pictures. I don't know how you manage to get onto the site (I know I couldn't), but great pictures as usual. It doesn't look like signage has been installed yet. I know it's quite early in the construction stage though.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2015, 06:28:17 PM
A few new photos taken of the construction along the Highway 407 corridor in Durham Region.  Construction is moving along well, but I am still not certain if they can finish the highway by the start of winter this year:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/08-Aug/407E_cl_108-5_west_Aug15.jpg)
View of the then un-opened Brock Road interchange from the future Highway 407 overpass.  (The Brock Road interchange opened the day after these photos were taken).

Did they close off that 'traffic light' intersection at the same time?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 24, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
The pictured westbound off-ramp to Highway 7 is still in use, but yes, the traffic signals are no more at that location.

And, to signgeek, I just generally just park the car in a safe spot and then just walk onto the site.  I tend to go out on weekends when no one (or very few) are working.  I've been asked to leave a few construction sites over the years, but generally have never had any real trouble.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 24, 2015, 06:45:33 PM
The pictured eastbound westbound off-ramp to Highway 7 is still in use, but yes, the traffic signals are no more at that location.

Guess it's time to update both ON-7 & ON-407's files for the TravelMapping (former CHM) project.

New exit numbers up for the Brock Road interchange ramp going EB?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 24, 2015, 07:01:47 PM
It's Exit #105.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 12, 2015, 03:23:21 PM
Looks like a section of the newly twinned highway 69 has been opened. It runs from highway 64 to the Murdock River (9 km). Another section will open next year.

http://news.ontario.ca/mndmf/en/2015/09/ontario-continuing-to-expand-highway-corridor-in-the-north.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on September 27, 2015, 02:32:37 PM
401/403/410 loop going in!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/21210842219_b2baff7c6c_b.jpg)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vaughanweather/21210842219/sizes/k/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 27, 2015, 10:53:48 PM
401/403/410 loop going in!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/21210842219_b2baff7c6c_b.jpg)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vaughanweather/21210842219/sizes/k/

I never noticed there was no westbound on-ramp onto the 401 from the 403. Glad they're putting that in. Any information on when it will be complete?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on September 27, 2015, 11:40:55 PM

I never noticed there was no westbound on-ramp onto the 401 from the 403. Glad they're putting that in. Any information on when it will be complete?

There is one, but it's like 100km away:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1217978,-80.6924639,14.75z?hl=en

Technically this is a ramp from 410 NB to 401 WB (I think?)

Completion is late 2018:
http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/09/improvements-begin-on-highway-410.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 27, 2015, 11:55:59 PM

I never noticed there was no westbound on-ramp onto the 401 from the 403. Glad they're putting that in. Any information on when it will be complete?

There is one, but it's like 100km away:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1217978,-80.6924639,14.75z?hl=en

Technically this is a ramp from 410 NB to 401 WB (I think?)

Completion is late 2018:
http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/09/improvements-begin-on-highway-410.html

Touché. That doesn't really count though  :-P

I don't really know where the 403 ends and the 410 begins. I'm sure the MTO has an official boundary but I don't know where it is.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 28, 2015, 04:59:50 PM
I don't really know where the 403 ends and the 410 begins. I'm sure the MTO has an official boundary but I don't know where it is.

Well, for Highway 410, km 0.000 is at the centreline of Highway 401. For Highway 403, its end point is at that interchange.

This ramp would be for northbound 403 to westbound 401.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on September 28, 2015, 05:16:34 PM
I don't really know where the 403 ends and the 410 begins. I'm sure the MTO has an official boundary but I don't know where it is.

Well, for Highway 410, km 0.000 is at the centreline of Highway 401. For Highway 403, its end point is at that interchange.

This ramp would be for northbound 403 to westbound 401.

That's what I thought. Ramp breaks off before the centreline. On a different note, it's about flipping time they built these ramps.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on October 01, 2015, 11:33:22 AM
Is the 401E to 403S ramp part of the project too?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 01, 2015, 12:51:20 PM
Is the 401E to 403S ramp part of the project too?

Yes. Grading is evident on Google Maps.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 02, 2015, 06:17:20 PM
A couple of photos of construction on Hwy 400 at the Hwy 9 interchange near Newmarket, north of Toronto.  Construction is underway to widen the highway through the interchange with the medium term goal of constructing HOV lanes on the 400 from Hwy 9 southern to Major Mack:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_dv_54_north_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_54-75_north_w_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_55_south_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_55_north_Sep15_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on October 03, 2015, 11:04:47 AM
A couple of photos of construction on Hwy 400 at the Hwy 9 interchange near Newmarket, north of Toronto.  Construction is underway to widen the highway through the interchange with the medium term goal of constructing HOV lanes on the 400 from Hwy 9 southern to Major Mack:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_dv_54_north_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_54-75_north_w_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_55_south_Sep15_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/09-Sep/400_cl_55_north_Sep15_forum.jpg)

I guessing the old bridge will have to be extended as well. How many lanes is it being widened to?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 03, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
The old bridge will be fully replaced as part of this work.  A couple of old bridges along the 400 between Toronto and Barrie are being replaced right now.

The new bridge will be built wide enough to have ten lanes beneath it in the future, but the highway is only going to be widened to eight lanes in the immediate future.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 04, 2015, 06:27:35 PM
A couple of photos of the interchange between Highway 401 and Highway 412 Toll in Whitby.  These images were taken by me.  I'd prefer to be putting these up on my website (maybe one day I will), but it's just faster to do it this way:

View looking easterly from the Lake Ridge Road overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407_east_WB_t_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407_east_WB_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407_east_WB_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


View underneath the future ramp that will carry traffic between the eastbound 401 and Highway 412 northbound:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_407-5_southwest-under_Sep15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_407-5_southwest-under_Sep15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_407-5_southwest-under_Sep15_24x16.jpg)


Easterly view along Highway 401 from the 401 EB -> 412 NB ramp
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407-5_east_t_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407-5_east_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_407-5_east_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


Westerly view along Highway 401 from the ramp that will carry traffic from the 412 SB -> 401 EB:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_west_WB_Aug15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_west_WB_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_west_WB_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


View of the unfinished ramp that will carry traffic from the 412 SB -> 401 EB.  The concrete deck screed is visible at the far side of the overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_east_rebar-ramp_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_east_rebar-ramp_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_408_east_rebar-ramp_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


View looking beneath the above ramp:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_108_under_south_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_108_under_south_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_structure_108_under_south_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


View from the Henry Street overpass in Whitby.  Note the lane shifts through the construction.  There was a pretty terrible collision through here the other night, where a transport truck slammed into queued traffic that had slowed due to night construction.  3 people were killed, and more than a dozen more were injured.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_409_west_t_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_409_west_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_409_west_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg)


Finally, this is the Henry Street overpass itself.  It is scheduled to be replaced starting next year.  It is one of the oldest highway overpasses in the province.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_410_west_onramp_t_Oct15_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_410_west_onramp_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/10-Oct/401_cl_410_west_onramp_t_Oct15_24x16.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on October 04, 2015, 07:03:24 PM
Out of curiosity, how does Ontario fund all their highways? Ontario, these days, reminds me of the US circa-1970s (lots and lots of freeway building).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 04, 2015, 07:21:21 PM
Ontario raised its gas taxes a few years ago, and the 407 and 412 will be toll roads.  Doesn't hurt that 100,000 new people move to the region each year either.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 04, 2015, 07:58:19 PM
Ontario raised its gas taxes a few years ago, and the 407 and 412 will be toll roads.  Doesn't hurt that 100,000 new people move to the region each year either.

What he said. The GTA is growing at a very rapid pace and the expansions are needed to move people around. A lot of what they're building on is currently farmland, but it won't be that way for long.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 05, 2015, 09:03:33 AM
Ontario has enacted some fairly strong land use planning legislation for a lot of rural lands surrounding the GTA.  A considerable amount of agricultural land, as well as land that is part of the Oak Ridges Moraine has been protected from development.  The legislation sets development targets that 40% of new development in an urban centre should be generated from intensification in existing city centres rather than new greenfield development.  Understandably considering the scope of the legislation, it has received mixed reviews from different segments of the population.

Back to Highways, a lot of construction is underway or has recently been completed over the past few years:

Completed in 2013, the complex freeway section on Hwy 401 was extended for four kilometres through Mississauga:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm
An additional contract to extend the collector lanes westerly through the Mavis Road interchange is expected to be called this winter, with completion in 2020.

In 2014, a twelve kilometre extension of Hwy 404 was completed from Newmarket towards Keswick.  This alleviated traffic congestion along Woodbine Avenue, and has served the growing South Lake Simcoe portion of York Region.
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_RavenshoeExtn_images.htm

Currently underway, there is the 407 Extension, which will extend the 407 east to Harmony Road in Oshawa and see the construction of Highway 412, a new north-south link between the 401 and 407 through western Durham Region.  The government has stated that this work should be completed by the end of this year, but such a timeline doesn't seem realistic to me given the amount of work that remains.
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm

Twinning of the south end of the 406 through Welland should be completed in a few weeks.  I haven't been down that way in a while, but I can't see how this work wouldn't be finished on time:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy406_cons.htm#2012

Also, underway are projects to widen Highway 427 between the 409 and 407 to eight lanes (6 GPL + 2 HOV) as well as construction to widen the 410 to ten lanes between Highway 410 and Queen Street in Brampton (8 GPL + 2 HOV).

Work to extend the 427 to Major Mackenzie Drive should start within the next year or so, as the project has a tentative completion date of 2019.  An additional contract should be called to to widen the 427 through the 407 interchange.

Work to construct HOV lanes on the 400 between Hwy 9 and Major Mackenzie is likely going to be completed by the early 2020s, and the government has committed extending the current HOV lanes on the 404 as far north as Stouffville Road by 2019

West of Toronto, work to widen the 401 through Cambridge started earlier this year, and is expected to be completed by 2019.  Additionally, construction on a new four lane highway linking Kitchener/Waterloo to Guelph should be underway within the next year.  Some preparatory advanced work is currently ongoing.

This is in addition to the work that is ongoing to widen the K/W Expressway to six lanes through the western portion of the city:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm#Jul15

Further, there are a number of transit improvements ongoing in the region as well.  Several years ago, all day, 30 minute service was introduced on the Lakeshore GO lines within the region, with construction on additional improvements underway.  A 6.4km extension of the Spadina Subway line is currently underway.  The project is several years behind schedule, and hundreds of millions of dollars over budget.  A new east-west light-rail transit line is being constructed within the Eglinton Avenue corridor as well.  This line will feature an 8km tunnel, as well as at-grade on road sections.  http://www.thecrosstown.ca/  A new rail link between the Airport and Union Station was completed this year as well.  https://www.upexpress.com/  Finally, several new BRT's are being built as well, most notably across the Hwy 7 corridor in southern York Region, and along the Highway 403 corridor through Mississauga.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 05, 2015, 09:37:59 AM
I was on 406 a couple months ago and everything was paved. While there was still a little bit of undivided highway, NB was entirely grade-separated. It will be done soon, if it isn't already. Next time I hit up Swiss Chalet, I'll head over there and try and grab pictures.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 05, 2015, 10:29:41 AM
Swiss Chalet is definitely worth crossing the border for (though I am surprised you know of it).

The 406 is supposed to be finished in November.  It's been almost finished since last November, so I have to expect it'd be done soon.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 05, 2015, 01:31:33 PM
Swiss Chalet is definitely worth crossing the border for (though I am surprised you know of it).

The 406 is supposed to be finished in November.  It's been almost finished since last November, so I have to expect it'd be done soon.

For a short time after I moved to Buffalo, they had a couple locations on our side of the border that closed. The last time I was there, the place was full of Americans. I cross quite often for it, Chinese food (also mostly Americans), and Nestlé/Mars candy that can't be bought here.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on October 05, 2015, 10:06:22 PM
Swiss Chalet is definitely worth crossing the border for (though I am surprised you know of it).

Add any restaurant that has hockey cards too (Tim Hortons). ;)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on October 05, 2015, 11:14:00 PM
Ontario has enacted some fairly strong land use planning legislation for a lot of rural lands surrounding the GTA.  A considerable amount of agricultural land, as well as land that is part of the Oak Ridges Moraine has been protected from development.  The legislation sets development targets that 40% of new development in an urban centre should be generated from intensification in existing city centres rather than new greenfield development.  Understandably considering the scope of the legislation, it has received mixed reviews from different segments of the population.

Back to Highways, a lot of construction is underway or has recently been completed over the past few years:

Completed in 2013, the complex freeway section on Hwy 401 was extended for four kilometres through Mississauga:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_HurontarioCons_images.htm
An additional contract to extend the collector lanes westerly through the Mavis Road interchange is expected to be called this winter, with completion in 2020.

In 2014, a twelve kilometre extension of Hwy 404 was completed from Newmarket towards Keswick.  This alleviated traffic congestion along Woodbine Avenue, and has served the growing South Lake Simcoe portion of York Region.
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_RavenshoeExtn_images.htm

Currently underway, there is the 407 Extension, which will extend the 407 east to Harmony Road in Oshawa and see the construction of Highway 412, a new north-south link between the 401 and 407 through western Durham Region.  The government has stated that this work should be completed by the end of this year, but such a timeline doesn't seem realistic to me given the amount of work that remains.
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm

Twinning of the south end of the 406 through Welland should be completed in a few weeks.  I haven't been down that way in a while, but I can't see how this work wouldn't be finished on time:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy406_cons.htm#2012

Also, underway are projects to widen Highway 427 between the 409 and 407 to eight lanes (6 GPL + 2 HOV) as well as construction to widen the 410 to ten lanes between Highway 410 and Queen Street in Brampton (8 GPL + 2 HOV).

Work to extend the 427 to Major Mackenzie Drive should start within the next year or so, as the project has a tentative completion date of 2019.  An additional contract should be called to to widen the 427 through the 407 interchange.

Work to construct HOV lanes on the 400 between Hwy 9 and Major Mackenzie is likely going to be completed by the early 2020s, and the government has committed extending the current HOV lanes on the 404 as far north as Stouffville Road by 2019

West of Toronto, work to widen the 401 through Cambridge started earlier this year, and is expected to be completed by 2019.  Additionally, construction on a new four lane highway linking Kitchener/Waterloo to Guelph should be underway within the next year.  Some preparatory advanced work is currently ongoing.

This is in addition to the work that is ongoing to widen the K/W Expressway to six lanes through the western portion of the city:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm#Jul15

Further, there are a number of transit improvements ongoing in the region as well.  Several years ago, all day, 30 minute service was introduced on the Lakeshore GO lines within the region, with construction on additional improvements underway.  A 6.4km extension of the Spadina Subway line is currently underway.  The project is several years behind schedule, and hundreds of millions of dollars over budget.  A new east-west light-rail transit line is being constructed within the Eglinton Avenue corridor as well.  This line will feature an 8km tunnel, as well as at-grade on road sections.  http://www.thecrosstown.ca/  A new rail link between the Airport and Union Station was completed this year as well.  https://www.upexpress.com/  Finally, several new BRT's are being built as well, most notably across the Hwy 7 corridor in southern York Region, and along the Highway 403 corridor through Mississauga.

Ontario is sure quite busy with roads these days. You can find all the projects in the southern part being done and in the planning stages here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway-bridges/pdfs/southern-highways-program-2015-2019.pdf

Northern part here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway-bridges/pdfs/northern-highways-program-2015-2019.pdf

Unfortunately it appears the 417 work west of Ottawa to Renfrew has been pushed back though. You can't have it always your way.

Wish Manitoba would do something instead of talk about improvements, spend money doing study after study, and then decide not to build anything because of reasons.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on October 14, 2015, 03:06:01 AM
Does anyone know what's up with what looks like the construction of a new 403 to QEW westbound ramp  beside the existing one? Never read anything about this project:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4947701,-79.6738053,232m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en (https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4947701,-79.6738053,232m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)





 
 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 14, 2015, 07:19:17 AM
It is being constructed as part of advanced work to stage the repair/replacement of several bridges at the Ford Drive and Highway 403 interchanges in Oakville.

Eventually that structure will carry a westbound sub-collector lane between the Winston Churchill and Ford Drive interchanges, but that is a ways off.  You can see the long term plan here:

http://www.oakville.ca/assets/general%20-%20residents/transportationstudy-403-QEW-execsum.pdf
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 19, 2015, 09:00:14 AM
Some new pics of Hwy 69 in Ontario, specifically covering the new four lane section of highway that opened earlier this year:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_173_north_Sep15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_dv_CrookedLake_adv_north_Sep15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_structure_MurdockRiver_SB_east_Sep15.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69N_cl_Scurvesouth_south_Sep15.jpg)

The full set and larger images are found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on October 19, 2015, 09:24:45 PM
The highway 64 overpass I guess isn't open yet. Hopefully the MTO completes this project on schedule. Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 21, 2015, 07:46:13 AM
The Hwy 64 bridge was mostly finished when I visited back in June.  Work through the Hwy 64 interchange is scheduled to be completed next summer, which definitely seems possible given the amount of work that has been done thus far.

The ends of the Hwy 64 bridge abutment in the photo have been pre-loaded with blast rock in order to try and mitigate settling.  Highway building in northern Ontario is difficult.  The areas between the rock outcroppings tend to be filled with swampy muskeg, which is prone to settlement when fill is applied to it.  The MTO has generally done a fairly good job constructing Hwy 69 in order to minimize settlement by pre-loading large fills for a year or so before asphalt is applied to the road bed, but there have been some settlement areas.

The Hwy 17 freeway west of Sudbury was one of the earlier freeways built through northeastern Ontario and has some really problematic areas.  It's supposed to be reconstructed starting next year, but is currently, unquestionably, the section of freeway in the poorest condition in all of Ontario.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: kennyshark on October 21, 2015, 12:47:23 PM
Last weekend was the first time I drove on Ontario Highway 400, between the GTA and Barrie.  I noticed the Ontario provincial logo carved into many of the overpasses, which looked cool.  Does anyone know the background or history of this artwork?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jwolfer on October 21, 2015, 01:11:47 PM
Ontario raised its gas taxes a few years ago, and the 407 and 412 will be toll roads.  Doesn't hurt that 100,000 new people move to the region each year either.
Are most of the people coming from other parts of Canada? I have a friend from PEI and she told me lots of people leave for Toronto
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 21, 2015, 01:18:37 PM
Ontario raised its gas taxes a few years ago, and the 407 and 412 will be toll roads.  Doesn't hurt that 100,000 new people move to the region each year either.
Are most of the people coming from other parts of Canada? I have a friend from PEI and she told me lots of people leave for Toronto

That and immigration. Canada has one of the highest per-capita immigration rates in the world and the highest among G8 nations. If you can give anything to make the country a better place, they're more than happy to take you.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jwolfer on October 21, 2015, 01:21:06 PM
Ontario raised its gas taxes a few years ago, and the 407 and 412 will be toll roads.  Doesn't hurt that 100,000 new people move to the region each year either.
Are most of the people coming from other parts of Canada? I have a friend from PEI and she told me lots of people leave for Toronto

That and immigration. Canada has one of the highest per-capita immigration rates in the world and the highest among G8 nations. If you can give anything to make the country a better place, they're more than happy to take you.
It seems Toronto and Vancouver are the main places people go. Are there any other places that are big population magnets. To keep on topic specifically in Ontario
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 21, 2015, 01:46:42 PM
Last weekend was the first time I drove on Ontario Highway 400, between the GTA and Barrie.  I noticed the Ontario provincial logo carved into many of the overpasses, which looked cool.  Does anyone know the background or history of this artwork?

The coat of arms that have been embossed into the structures are original to the construction of the 400.  I'm not sure the exact rationale of why they were embossed into the overpass, aside from the obvious assumption that the government of the day was proud of the construction of the 400.  Some of the bridges along Hwy 2A had the crest engraved in them as well.

Many of the bridges along the 400 are now reaching the end of their service life.  Most of the newly proposed replacement bridges are also planned to have the provincial coat of arms, in addition to some other historic aesthetic elements.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on October 22, 2015, 07:57:21 AM
There some aerial photos of Hwy-407 extension posted on Skyscraperpage forums.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7206395&postcount=4430
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on October 22, 2015, 10:59:57 PM
Anyone know when the construction season ends in southern Ontario? Does it depend on calendar day, or whenever it's just too cold to work?

Hopefully a Spring opening of the 407 then.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 23, 2015, 08:16:11 AM
There isn't a date, the construction activity is dependent upon the temperature.

For example, it should be 7 degrees or warmer when applying HL1 hot mix asphalt, and concrete cannot be allowed the freeze during its curing phase or it will be damaged by the expansion.  There are ways to cure concrete in the cold, it just gets more expensive for the contractor to pour concrete because they have to supply some form of winter heat.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on October 23, 2015, 11:08:48 AM
There isn't a date, the construction activity is dependent upon the temperature.

For example, it should be 7 degrees or warmer when applying HL1 hot mix asphalt, and concrete cannot be allowed the freeze during its curing phase or it will be damaged by the expansion.  There are ways to cure concrete in the cold, it just gets more expensive for the contractor to pour concrete because they have to supply some form of winter heat.

Which means the construction season is just about over. On the other side of the Niagara River, it was 2 this morning. Stuff over here is wrapping up and we follow a similar schedule.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on October 26, 2015, 08:42:16 AM
There isn't a date, the construction activity is dependent upon the temperature.

For example, it should be 7 degrees or warmer when applying HL1 hot mix asphalt, and concrete cannot be allowed the freeze during its curing phase or it will be damaged by the expansion.  There are ways to cure concrete in the cold, it just gets more expensive for the contractor to pour concrete because they have to supply some form of winter heat.

Which means the construction season is just about over. On the other side of the Niagara River, it was 2 this morning. Stuff over here is wrapping up and we follow a similar schedule.

Well, that's the low, but through the day when it's warmer they'll be working for sure. Typically we expect a cut-off of November 30th, but seeing work going on into mid-late December is not unheard of in the southwestern part of the province.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on October 29, 2015, 11:22:35 PM
According to Google, the 406 upgrading work is now complete. Now we can all say that the 400 series are freeways exclusively.  :clap:

Haven't found anything official from the MTO news feed yet though.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 30, 2015, 08:45:09 PM
CBC Marketplace show on the low speed limits of Ontario:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marketplace-speed-limits-1.3292975
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MrDisco99 on November 02, 2015, 05:07:38 PM
CBC Marketplace show on the low speed limits of Ontario:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marketplace-speed-limits-1.3292975

I wondered what locals thought of this when I drove through there last month.  I was surprised to see the limit was only 100 along the entire length of 401.  Having foreign plates, I tried to stay under the radar by setting cruise at 110, and had to stay out of everyone's way because I was getting passed by everyone, except some trucks which likely are governed to do the limit.  I can see how this can cause some problems.

Here in the US speed limits are typically 65 or 70 mph between cities, and go up to 75 or 80 mph out west.  I've also driven in the UK and Ireland which has speed limits of 70mph and 120kph on their motorways respectively.  I've found that where the speed limits are higher, you tend to see less variance in the speed of traffic.  You're always going to have a few menaces weaving through traffic at 150kph, but the majority of the traffic stays in a narrower speed range and results in smoother, safer flowing traffic.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 07, 2015, 06:36:30 PM
Some updated information about the 407 East Extension in the eastern GTA.  These pictures were taken on November 7, 2015

Some of the new signage has gone up on the 401.  To my knowledge, this is the only new signage that has been erected for the highway:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_405-5_east_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_405-5_east_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_405-5_east_Nov15_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_24x16.jpg
The sign for the Lake Ridge Road interchange pre-dates almost all construction of the ramp itself.


Top coat asphalt has been applied to much of the future highway west of the Lake Ridge Road interchange.  Lines were applied at some point earlier this week.  Most of the highway is not this far advanced.  These views are from just west of Sideline 14 in Pickering, and look east:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_east_t_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_east_lg_24x16.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_east_t_Nov15_24x16.jpg

This view looks westerly from the Salem Road interchange:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_WB_t_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_WB_t_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_WB_t_Nov15_24x16.jpg

More to come...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 07, 2015, 09:50:09 PM
Some updated information about the 407 East Extension in the eastern GTA.  These pictures were taken on November 7, 2015

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_406_east_Nov15_24x16.jpg
The sign for the Lake Ridge Road interchange pre-dates almost all construction of the ramp itself.

Like the signage for the toll the MTO put up. Although I wish the text were a bit larger, so it's actually readable. The text looks like it's 15 cm letter height or something  :-/

I wonder why the signs weren't simply covered up. Those exits won't be open for months probably.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 08, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
^I don't know.  I had been expecting the signs to be covered up as well.  I had noticed the posts for the gantries had been erected a couple of weeks ago.  I read about the signs being erected in another forum earlier this week and was quite surprised.  I kind of think that the signs were erected this far in advance as a bit of an advertisement for the new highway, but maybe I'm just over thinking it...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 21, 2015, 04:11:37 PM
A couple of new signs (taken earlier today) along Highway 412:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1_south_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1_south_Nov15_lg.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1_south_Nov15_lg.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1-5_south_Nov15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1-5_south_Nov15_lg.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/11-Nov/412_dv_1-5_south_Nov15_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 21, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
How many lanes will the 412 be? From the pictures it looks like there could be around 2-3 per direction.

Completely off topic, but I'm a little surprised there's no snow there yet. We just got our first snowfall here.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on November 21, 2015, 06:22:03 PM
How many lanes will the 412 be? From the pictures it looks like there could be around 2-3 per direction.

Completely off topic, but I'm a little surprised there's no snow there yet. We just got our first snowfall here.

This area has gotten very little so far. Quite unusual. Even the snowbelt south of Buffalo has barely gotten anything. The heavy snow that fell on the plains is coming down as rain. The region might get some measurable stuff on Monday, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 21, 2015, 07:18:04 PM
No snow for Toronto as of yet.  The weather people are saying that some areas to the north and west of Toronto (probably in the traditional snow belt areas east of Lake Huron) could get up to 15cm of snow tonight.

The 412 will be four lanes (two per direction) when it opens.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 22, 2015, 11:06:55 AM
An update on the Nipigon River Bridge:

http://www.enl-tbay.com/NipigonBridge/PhotoAlbumFall2015.html

Obviously, the pictures aren't mine.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 22, 2015, 06:20:35 PM
That's a cool project.

They are supposed to be transferring traffic over to the new span at some point in the near future (if they haven't already).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 23, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
I have completed an update to the 407 East Extension Construction Page.  These photos were taken earlier in November.  Construction i still ongoing, so things may have changed somewhat since these photos were taken:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_105_east_t_Nov15.jpg)
Easterly view from Brock Road

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_105-8_east_Nov15.jpg)
The Sideline 14 overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_109_west_w_Nov15.jpg)
Westerly view from Salem Road

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_cl_112_west_E-S-ramp_Nov15.jpg)
Three level Highway 407/412 interchange

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_structure_115-5_west_Nov15.jpg)
The Anderson Road overpass situated behind a big brother gantry

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_structure_121_north_Nov15.jpg)
Un-completed Simcoe Street overpass

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/11-Nov/407E_structure_124_ramp_north_Nov15.jpg)
Crossing of the east branch of Oshawa Creek near the eastern terminus of the Phase 1 extension.

All of the photos are available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy407_ConstructionImages.htm#Nov15
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on November 25, 2015, 05:56:23 PM
Don Valley Parkway at Eglinton Avenue in Toronto

Former cloverleaf.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/353/19863133985_3884bf9542_b.jpg)

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ai360/19863133985/in/dateposted/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 25, 2015, 08:53:28 PM
Last weekend, the rest of the Herb Gray Pkwy opened to traffic.

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2015/11/new-rt-hon-herb-gray-parkway-in-windsor-now-complete.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on December 07, 2015, 07:41:04 PM
HOT lanes will be debuting in Ontario next year.  The full details haven't been made public yet, but the pilot project is loosely based on the permit system that was used in Utah before they went to all-electronic tolling.

Also of note in the linked article is the scheduled completion date of the 427 extension as 2021, and if it's correct, that the 427 extension will open with four general purpose lanes (two per direction), and two HOT lanes (one per direction) as far north of Rutherford, instead of the more expected six general purpose lane cross-section that I had envisioned.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/12/07/toll-lanes-coming-to-ontario-highways.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on December 07, 2015, 09:42:07 PM
Interesting. Looks like Ontario is more so adapting US style tolling on its roads. I guess perhaps the HOV system didn't work as well as MTO thought it would, or maybe they want to establish a larger transportation budget in the future? I wonder how they will implement a HOT system.

On another subject, it appears the 407E has been formally delayed to next Spring. But we all knew that was going to happen  ;-)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on December 08, 2015, 08:15:49 PM
Some new photos related to the 412 interchange:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_dv_407_east_Dec05-15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_p11_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on December 11, 2015, 12:52:14 AM
^If the MTO is planning to widen 401 east towards Whitby, why are the the piers on the new overpass so close together?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on December 11, 2015, 07:38:50 AM
Collector lanes:

(http://www.407eastphase1.ca/wp-content/gallery/segment-b-1/pic3-structure_b1_corrected.jpg)
http://www.407eastphase1.ca/wp-content/gallery/segment-b-1/pic3-structure_b1_corrected.jpg

For interests sake, the structure design was somewhat neutred during the detailed design from what had been proposed in the preliminary design.  The preliminary design had proposed longer cast in place structures that are more typical of Ontario's highways:
http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Plates/Plate-12---407-East---WDL2---Rossland-Rd.jpg
(This image doesn't show the 401 in final configuration).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on December 11, 2015, 09:34:49 AM
^If the MTO is planning to widen 401 east towards Whitby, why are the the piers on the new overpass so close together?

Any widening would likely be done in a core-collector configuration.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on December 15, 2015, 01:20:17 PM
407 East toll prices, man the government finds more ways to screw us.

Let's do some comparison

407 ETR 34.73 cents per km between 4pm and 6pm on weekdays

407 East 29 cents per km between 4pm and 6pm on weekdays

407 ETR 19.74 cents per km between 7pm and 6am on weekdays

407 East 19 cents per km between 7pm and 6am on weekdays

Of course I am not surprised by this at all, a growing sunshine list has to find more ways to keep it sustainable, these aren't taxes but "revenue tools". I thought the original purpose of a toll road is for maintenance of the toll road. Our counterparts even in WNY sees this kind of nonsense there, it costs a dollar to use the Grand Island Bridges, yet those bridges are in fairly rotten shape, the money goes right from the toll collectors hand into a slush fund in Albany.

On the topic of Western New York, the distance from the Lackawanna Barrier to the Ripley Barrier on the Thruway is around the same length of the original 407 ETR, yet that only costs around $3 to travel. God only knows how much it costs to drive the entire length of the 407.

But hey, it's all social engineering, the people in charge of the MTO and the City of Toronto are trying to make driving the new smoking so to speak. Think about it, what new real road infrastructure have we got since the opening of Hwy 407 ETR. A measely 410 and 404 extension. Maybe a widening here and there on parts of the 401 in the GTA like from Westney to Salem. We did however get many HOV lanes which are completely unfair and do absolutely nothing to help commercial traffic. The fact that the powers that be swiftly built an HOV only ramp, or a rail viaduct to the airport really is telling. That rail structure to the airport is arguably just as much as an "eyesore" as the Gardiner expressway, but hey, no one ever complains if the purpose of the said structure is used solely for public transit.

Am I anti public transit, I am not at all. However, I am for worthwhile public transportation, building LRTs like the ones proposed in Transit City are not really worth the investment, considering how light syncing could never be achieved to make the LRTs efficient. Take a look at the Highway 7 "Rapidway" and just watch how often the buses sit at lights in their dedicated lane in the middle of the road. The LRTs are exactly that but will use a "streetcar" like vehicle, yes, powered by a wire overhead. Also, what I don't get is the somehow backwards inefficiency we face with construction nowadays with regards to how much we have moved forward in technology. For instance, PRIVATE COMPANIES built the original subway lines in NYC, such as the BMT and IRT. Yet to build a subway line in NYC or here takes over a decade and costs billions of dollars. The question is why? How much of that often repeated $300 million dollar per km cost is actually bureaucracy?

Equally frustrating is how governments say they have no money for anything, yet the feds were able to magically use money for the 25,000 syrian "refugees". Yeah, Toronto is one of the best cities in the world, it just takes you hours to get anywhere in this city. We have bad enough traffic already, and what does the city want to do, oh yeah, knock down the Gardiner. There was a time when people had vision in this region, Frederick G Gardiner, the man the expressway was named after was responsible for getting the original Yonge line off the ground. There is always the story about the Bloor Viaduct, when that was built in the 1920s, somehow, the people knew in the future that there would be a subway line running underneath, so they built the viaduct with the intention to be able to run subway trains underneath, and that was a very good decision.

While the city could do without a Spadina Expressway, the decision to derail the 400 extension and the Gardiner extension were extremely bad moves that have real consequences today. People need to understand that not everyone is heading downtown, I go into the core every day, and I use the GO Train, because it's convenient for me, I'm only about a mile walk out of Union Station, so I take the train everyday. What about the person who lives in Brampton and has a job at Markham/401 area, they have no other choice but to use the 401 in that case. Better yet, what about a Bramptonian who works in Port Credit, want to spend hours on transit buses, I'm sure most don't. There are so many simple things they could do to make GO better, but they don't. In Los Angeles of all places, their equivalent to GO, called Metrolink, one of our lines has more riders than their whole system, yet they get all day two way service on all lines. What do they do, they don't run those giant 12 coach trains, there is no reason why every other line can't have 4 or 6 coach trains in not peak times that run all day. Consider that Metrolink is in LA, basically car capital of North America.

This is my rant for now and it shows my complete frustrations with  the city and region. I want this city to work, I really do, but the powers that be just make bonehead move after bonehead move after bonehead move.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on December 15, 2015, 03:14:59 PM
Actually, it doesn't all go to a slush fund in Albany. The people who say that are the same ones who think New York City gets all of the state's tax revenue (they get less back per dollar paid than anyone else) and Niagara Falls power goes to New York City (it mostly goes to factories in Upstate New York with a lot staying in Niagara Falls, Buffalo, and the surrounding area). Most of it goes to pay salaries of the toll collectors (who have been there long enough to be making a decent salary) and engineering/maintenance personnel, as well as the ongoing redecking projects (at ~$50 million per deck) and bridge work along the mainline that will start shortly.

Also, 407 was designed to be express lanes to let people bypass 401. Don't compare it to the Thruway. Compare it to, say, the I-495 Express Lanes that hit $1/mile during a typical rush hour and can go much higher depending on traffic. That's a heck of a lot more per km than 407 even without the currency conversion. Also, it's an urban area. Urban tolls are often higher than rural tolls.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on December 15, 2015, 04:11:28 PM
Yes, mr know it all, cl94, there is one basic thing you need to understand, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Virginia is getting away with highway robbery doesn't mean we should do it either. Then again, you in Buffalo aren't plagued by any traffic issues, well any that are problematic to say the least.

Funny how you call Highway 407 an urban route.....haha are you serious. The 407 East is mostly in the middle of nowhere, and if you want a comparable toll road to Highway 407, think the Illinois Tollway where the average rate is about 6 cents per mile. Now why don't you compare that to the over the top prices that government is charging. But as I said, they need to keep the sunshine list sustainable somehow.

The 407 wiseguy was originally designed to be a bypass of the 401, it was only in Bob Rae's government when that long anticipated route became a toll road, and then Mike Harris's government infamously leased it. Perhaps you should brush up on your history of the portion of the 407 in Halton Region (Oakville/Burlington), that wasn't supposed to be the 407 or a toll road there at all. That was supposed to be Hwy 403.

To correct the wrongs, the 407 east extension shouldn't have been tolled at all, Durham essentially has a beltway once the 418 is complete, but three sides of that beltway will have ridiculous toll rates.

What is going on in Virginia to me would be akin to having a special car on a subway train in which people pay three times the regular fare, get special access to this car (no lines at all), and can transfer between lines just as easily, a few weeks ago I took the subway and had to wait for 5 trains to pass before I could make the Bloor-Yonge transfer. With how much infrastructure and space required to set up such a system, everyone would benefit if they just extended the platforms by 2 car lengths at each station. (sounds expensive but would probably be cheaper than implementing my hypothetical two tier system) If the platforms are expanded everyone benefits, not just people who can pay the high costs of expensive fares easily.

What the government needs to learn is that people want to live in suburbia, I would NEVER want to raise a family in a tiny glass box in the sky in downtown Toronto.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on December 15, 2015, 05:34:17 PM
Yes, mr know it all, cl94, there is one basic thing you need to understand, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Virginia is getting away with highway robbery doesn't mean we should do it either. Then again, you in Buffalo aren't plagued by any traffic issues, well any that are problematic to say the least.

Funny how you call Highway 407 an urban route.....haha are you serious. The 407 East is mostly in the middle of nowhere, and if you want a comparable toll road to Highway 407, think the Illinois Tollway where the average rate is about 6 cents per mile. Now why don't you compare that to the over the top prices that government is charging. But as I said, they need to keep the sunshine list sustainable somehow.

The 407 wiseguy was originally designed to be a bypass of the 401, it was only in Bob Rae's government when that long anticipated route became a toll road, and then Mike Harris's government infamously leased it. Perhaps you should brush up on your history of the portion of the 407 in Halton Region (Oakville/Burlington), that wasn't supposed to be the 407 or a toll road there at all. That was supposed to be Hwy 403.

To correct the wrongs, the 407 east extension shouldn't have been tolled at all, Durham essentially has a beltway once the 418 is complete, but three sides of that beltway will have ridiculous toll rates.

What is going on in Virginia to me would be akin to having a special car on a subway train in which people pay three times the regular fare, get special access to this car (no lines at all), and can transfer between lines just as easily, a few weeks ago I took the subway and had to wait for 5 trains to pass before I could make the Bloor-Yonge transfer. With how much infrastructure and space required to set up such a system, everyone would benefit if they just extended the platforms by 2 car lengths at each station. (sounds expensive but would probably be cheaper than implementing my hypothetical two tier system) If the platforms are expanded everyone benefits, not just people who can pay the high costs of expensive fares easily.

What the government needs to learn is that people want to live in suburbia, I would NEVER want to raise a family in a tiny glass box in the sky in downtown Toronto.

Um, excuse me. I never said that it was always intended to be a toll road. I said 1990s and I have done my research. The main section is dense suburban. What it has since become is a less-congested alternative to 401.

The Illinois Tollway has been paid off for quite some time. 407 isn't all that old. And the high rates aren't unique to Virginia, either. The Port Authority has insanely high rates for the Hudson River crossings during rush hours. Peak-hour pricing is not unique and neither are high tolls. Heck, if you want high toll rates, look at the Pennsylvania Turnpike. That's currently $45 to go across the state and it's increasing to $50 next year. Give it a few years and it'll have a higher per-mile cost than 407.


edited for language
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 15, 2015, 06:05:50 PM
What is going on in Virginia to me would be akin to having a special car on a subway train in which people pay three times the regular fare, get special access to this car (no lines at all), and can transfer between lines just as easily, a few weeks ago I took the subway and had to wait for 5 trains to pass before I could make the Bloor-Yonge transfer. With how much infrastructure and space required to set up such a system, everyone would benefit if they just extended the platforms by 2 car lengths at each station. (sounds expensive but would probably be cheaper than implementing my hypothetical two tier system) If the platforms are expanded everyone benefits, not just people who can pay the high costs of expensive fares easily.

Yeah, but that implies you can keep expanding the system. A lot of times, *express* tolls are implemented because there's just no more room to (reasonably) expand a freeway, and they have to start squeezing traffic out and into public transit and/or carpools. This is what Seattle is doing with their ETL: carpools (3+), vanpools, transit, etc are free. Single drivers either suffer in the GP lanes or pay a fee. AFAIC, not all will win in every scenario. The people who are hating on the tolls strongly believe that the DOT (or transport ministry) can create some system where everyone wins. Unfortunately, that scenario isn't always possible.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on December 26, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
Some new photos of the 412 approaching the 407 interchange in Durham Region:

Pre-advanced signage for both the Hwy 7 and 407 interchanges:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_7-5_north_c_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_7-5_north_c_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_7-5_north_c_Dec15_24x16.jpg

Advanced signage for the Hwy 7 interchange:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_8-5_north_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_8-5_north_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_8-5_north_Dec15_24x16.jpg

Turn-off signage for the Hwy 7 interchange with an advanced sign for the Hwy 407 interchange.  The 412 ends at the Hwy 407 interchange.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_9_north_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_9_north_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_9_north_Dec15_24x16.jpg

Signage at the end of the 412:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_10_north_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_10_north_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_10_north_Dec15_24x16.jpg

View of the three level interchange between the 412 and the 407:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_structure_10_nw-three-level_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_structure_10_nw-three-level_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_structure_10_nw-three-level_Dec15_24x16.jpg

View looking westerly along the 407 from the 412 off-ramp:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_west_WB-offramp_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_west_WB-offramp_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_west_WB-offramp_Dec15_24x16.jpg

Easterly view along the 407 from the 412 off-ramp:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_east_WB-offramp_Dec15.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_east_WB-offramp_Dec15_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2015/12-Dec/407_cl_112_east_WB-offramp_Dec15_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on January 10, 2016, 07:19:58 PM
Bad news for the Nipigon River Bridge (and the 11/17 twinning):

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/nipigon-river-bridge-closed-transcanada-1.3397831
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: JREwing78 on January 10, 2016, 09:16:34 PM
More: http://www.tbnewswatch.com/News/379810/Newly_constructed_Nipigon_Bridge_splits_in_cold_
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on January 11, 2016, 09:41:18 AM
The bridge at Nipigon has been reopened.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on January 11, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
Follow at http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17234
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 02, 2016, 06:56:12 PM
There's some new photos of Hwy-407 and Hwy-412 posted on Skyscraperpage forum at http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7320117&postcount=4731
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 07, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
More signs have gone up along the 407 Extn:

Reassurance Shield
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407-Toll_shield_BrooklinWB_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407-Toll_shield_BrooklinWB_Feb16_lg.jpg

Exit signage:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-5_east_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-5_east_Feb16_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-75_East_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-75_east_Feb16_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-9_east_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_118-9_east_Feb16_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_119_west_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_119_west_Feb16_lg.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_120_east_Feb16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/2016/02-Feb/407_dv_120_east_Feb16_lg.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dcbjms on February 07, 2016, 12:44:14 PM
That 407 sign is new.  Has the white text on blue background been authorized for route markers like that?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 07, 2016, 08:05:50 PM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 07, 2016, 08:16:17 PM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?

Did the ETR Commision receive permission to use white-on-blue route markers from the MTO? Granted, I live nowhere near Ontario, but I can't recall seeing that type of marker before.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on February 07, 2016, 08:22:20 PM
The route marker decision was made by the MTO.  The MTO has retained a private partner to build and operate the highway, but decisions such as signage and design were the provincial governments to make.

** edit **
The extension of the 407 won't be signed with the same route number as the ETR.  Both highways will beare the same number, but only the new extension will be signed with the above route number.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on February 07, 2016, 09:25:37 PM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?

Did the ETR Commision receive permission to use white-on-blue route markers from the MTO? Granted, I live nowhere near Ontario, but I can't recall seeing that type of marker before.

The 407 ETR and the new 407 should be looked at as different highways, sharing the same number. They have different shields (the ETR is a circular shield on a BGS, the new one is a standard ON shield), and the new 407 is looked after by the province.

I like the new shield though. The toll tab looks clean, and the directional tab uses FHWA, something Ontario doesn't do for standard tabs.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 07, 2016, 10:39:58 PM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?

Did the ETR Commision receive permission to use white-on-blue route markers from the MTO? Granted, I live nowhere near Ontario, but I can't recall seeing that type of marker before.

The 407 ETR and the new 407 should be looked at as different highways, sharing the same number. They have different shields (the ETR is a circular shield on a BGS, the new one is a standard ON shield), and the new 407 is looked after by the province.

I like the new shield though. The toll tab looks clean, and the directional tab uses FHWA, something Ontario doesn't do for standard tabs.

Oh okay I see. I hadn't been following this thread closely enough to to realize the difference. Whoops. At least the numbers are the same! Did the MTO ever officially introduce the new shield, or was it decided on in private?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dcbjms on February 08, 2016, 10:07:22 AM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?

Did the ETR Commision receive permission to use white-on-blue route markers from the MTO? Granted, I live nowhere near Ontario, but I can't recall seeing that type of marker before.

The 407 ETR and the new 407 should be looked at as different highways, sharing the same number. They have different shields (the ETR is a circular shield on a BGS, the new one is a standard ON shield), and the new 407 is looked after by the province.

I like the new shield though. The toll tab looks clean, and the directional tab uses FHWA, something Ontario doesn't do for standard tabs.

That makes sense - and I also like the shield, too.  That's going to be a pain for atlases and maps to sign, though.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on February 08, 2016, 10:21:33 AM
I'm not sure I understand he question.  Who would need to authorize it?

Did the ETR Commision receive permission to use white-on-blue route markers from the MTO? Granted, I live nowhere near Ontario, but I can't recall seeing that type of marker before.

The 407 ETR and the new 407 should be looked at as different highways, sharing the same number. They have different shields (the ETR is a circular shield on a BGS, the new one is a standard ON shield), and the new 407 is looked after by the province.

I like the new shield though. The toll tab looks clean, and the directional tab uses FHWA, something Ontario doesn't do for standard tabs.

That makes sense - and I also like the shield, too.  That's going to be a pain for atlases and maps to sign, though.

Most widely-distributed things use the standard marker, as they often do in the US
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on February 08, 2016, 02:46:42 PM

Oh okay I see. I hadn't been following this thread closely enough to to realize the difference. Whoops. At least the numbers are the same! Did the MTO ever officially introduce the new shield, or was it decided on in private?

Are you meaning was there public consultation? I don't believe so, it was just done to go with the standard of blue signage for toll routes.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 08, 2016, 02:56:50 PM
Oh okay I see. I hadn't been following this thread closely enough to to realize the difference. Whoops. At least the numbers are the same! Did the MTO ever officially introduce the new shield, or was it decided on in private?

Are you meaning was there public consultation? I don't believe so, it was just done to go with the standard of blue signage for toll routes.

Err, sort of. Did the MTO ever have a press release of some sort? Some sort of letter from one engineer to another discussing the change? Usually there's some evidence online of a switch. All told, though, I think the blue shield is brilliant.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on February 08, 2016, 03:39:21 PM
Oh okay I see. I hadn't been following this thread closely enough to to realize the difference. Whoops. At least the numbers are the same! Did the MTO ever officially introduce the new shield, or was it decided on in private?

Are you meaning was there public consultation? I don't believe so, it was just done to go with the standard of blue signage for toll routes.

Err, sort of. Did the MTO ever have a press release of some sort? Some sort of letter from one engineer to another discussing the change? Usually there's some evidence online of a switch. All told, though, I think the blue shield is brilliant.

1. No press release. The determination of that was after the latest PIC
2. It obviously was discussed between the project team and MTO Head Office
3. No, there rarely if ever is that kind of evidence on a warning or guide sign. It's a standard sign with a small variation.

MTO does hundreds of Non-standard Uniform Signs like this every year. Aside from regulatory signs, where there actually are issues that would arise from them, it's a complete non-event.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 03, 2016, 07:55:42 PM
Somewhat of a re-announcement, but the provincial government will be implementing an electronically tolled HOT lane on the 427 from Pearson Airport northerly to Rutherford Road.  This will be the first electronically tolled HOT lane in Canada.  The HOT lane that is being implemented on the QEW/403 will debut with a permitting system.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-moving-ahead-with-first-electronic-hot-lane-in-hwy-427-expansion-plan-1.2802240

Quote
The province is moving ahead with a plan to put Ontario’s first electronic high-occupancy toll lane on a planned extension of Highway 427.

Quote
The 15.5-kilometre stretch of dedicated HOT lanes with electronic tolling will operate in both directions on Highway 427, from south of Highway 409 to north of Rutherford Road. It is set to open in 2021.

Quote
Del Duca has said the province has plans for a network of electronic HOT lanes with pricing that is based on time of day and traffic flows.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on March 03, 2016, 11:09:17 PM
Somewhat of a re-announcement, but the provincial government will be implementing an electronically tolled HOT lane on the 427 from Pearson Airport northerly to Rutherford Road.  This will be the first electronically tolled HOT lane in Canada.  The HOT lane that is being implemented on the QEW/403 will debut with a permitting system.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-moving-ahead-with-first-electronic-hot-lane-in-hwy-427-expansion-plan-1.2802240

Quote
The province is moving ahead with a plan to put Ontario’s first electronic high-occupancy toll lane on a planned extension of Highway 427.

Quote
The 15.5-kilometre stretch of dedicated HOT lanes with electronic tolling will operate in both directions on Highway 427, from south of Highway 409 to north of Rutherford Road. It is set to open in 2021.

Quote
Del Duca has said the province has plans for a network of electronic HOT lanes with pricing that is based on time of day and traffic flows.
How is this going to operate? Will HOV users be required to get a tag and flip it to "free", or will they get a special toll bypass lane that is monitored by police? How else do you separate toll paying traffic from free traffic? A camera can't always pick up the number of passengers.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 04, 2016, 07:52:31 AM
To my knowledge those details haven't been publicized by the province yet.  I'm not sure that the province has even finalized those details yet.  From what I understand, when construction is completed on the southern portion of the 427 between the Airport and Steeles Avenue (south of the 407) in 2017, the new HOV lane will operate just as that, an HOV lane.  The current construction contract only includes provisions for the installation of electronic tolling components (conduits, etc), but doesn't actually include any of the tolling infrastructure itself.  These will be installed later as part of a separate contract.

Personally, I am hoping for interoperability between this facility and the 407.  I believe (Chris knows more than I on this matter), that the province still owns the rights to the 407 transponder, even though the 407 ETR delivers that service on behalf of the province, so it might not be impossible.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 07, 2016, 09:28:59 AM
I have put together a page of photos of the project to build the 412 through western Durham Region.  This is the tolled highway that was formerly known as the West Durham Link, and will link Highway 401 to Highway 407 just east of Lake Ridge Road in Whitby.  The new highway is scheduled to open later this spring:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/12-Dec/407_dv_112-5_west_Dec15.jpg)

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm)

-fixed URL.  -rmf67
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on March 07, 2016, 05:22:41 PM
I have put together a page of photos of the project to build the 412 through western Durham Region.  This is the tolled highway that was formerly known as the West Durham Link, and will link Highway 401 to Highway 407 just east of Lake Ridge Road in Whitby.  The new highway is scheduled to open later this spring:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/WDL/2015/12-Dec/407_dv_112-5_west_Dec15.jpg)

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm (http://"http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm")

The link doesn't work...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 07, 2016, 06:15:54 PM
Copied from another forum, I'm guessing that's where the problem came from:

Here's a proper link:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on March 07, 2016, 08:47:05 PM
Copied from another forum, I'm guessing that's where the problem came from:

Here's a proper link:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407E/Hwy412_ConstructionImages.htm

Somehow quotes got added into the URL field.  I've gone ahead and fixed it in your original post for ya. ;)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 14, 2016, 05:31:44 PM
Shockingly, I've uploaded some more new photos.  Primarily these photos detail the extension of Highway 401 through Windsor, through the perspective of Hwy 3.  By in large these photos were taken either in July or November 2015, though I have included a number of photos taken before construction to extend the 401 had commenced:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_dv_5-5_east_Jun15.jpg)
The start of Hwy 401

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_5-75_west_Nov15.jpg)
Hwy 3 briefly opens up with a wide median at the western-most Hwy 401 interchange.  For a brief period, the eastbound and westbound lanes of the highway straddle Highway 401.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_6-4_west_ramp_Nov15.jpg)
Ramp to Hwy 401 passing beneath Hwy 3.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_dv_6-6_west_Nov15.jpg)
View of the same ramp as above first passing through the Hearthwood Tunnel, before passing beneath the Hwy 3 tunnel.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_6-9_east_Sep05.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_6-9_east_Nov15.jpg)
Two views at the Huron Church Line intersection, looking east.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_8-5_east_Oct11.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_8-5_east_w_Jun15.jpg)
Two views looking easterly, just east of the Sandwich West Parkway intersection.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_9_west_Jun15.jpg)
Hwy 3 in the vicinity of the Montgomery Street intersection.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_10-7_west_Oct11.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_11_west_Jun15.jpg)
Westerly view east of Howard Avenue.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/3_cl_321-3_west_Nov15.jpg)
And kind of a bonus, not in Windsor, this is Hwy 3 passing over the Grand River Bridge in Cayuga.  Until this past year, an old 1920s vintage steel through truss bridge stood at this location.  It was replaced with a new steel beam bridge.  The new bridge was built off-alignment and will be slid into place using Teflon sliding pads.  Construction was supposed to be completed in 2015, however litigation between a neighbouring first nation community, and the government halted construction for much of the 2015 construction season.

The entire gallery can be seen here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_3-9_images/Hwy3_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on March 14, 2016, 06:25:11 PM
Any idea when construction usually starts in southern and northern Ontario? Here in Manitoba, it's not until usually sometime in early-mid May for "typical" work.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on March 14, 2016, 07:04:35 PM
April or May typically.

Though, construction has been ongoing pretty much all winter on several projects within the GTA, such as the 410 and the 407 Extn.  Obviously, there are limitations in what contractors can do in the winter compared to the summer.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on March 29, 2016, 02:33:17 PM
Province is moving ahead on the Morriston bypass on Hwy 6

http://guelph.ctvnews.ca/highway-6-bypass-construction-could-start-in-2020-province-says-1.2836712#

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on March 29, 2016, 04:41:58 PM
April or May typically.

Though, construction has been ongoing pretty much all winter on several projects within the GTA, such as the 410 and the 407 Extn.  Obviously, there are limitations in what contractors can do in the winter compared to the summer.

It has also been a remarkably light winter.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 28, 2016, 08:19:35 AM
A few recently uploaded photos from the 417 through eastern Ottawa.  These photos were taken last summer and represent the completion of the 417 widening through eastern Ottawa as part of the LRT expansion program.  The extra lanes that were constructed have initially been opened as bus only lanes, but will be converted to general purpose lanes once construction on the LRT has been completed in 2018:

View looking westerly from Lees Road
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117-5_west.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117-5_west_WB_Aug15.jpg)

View looking westerly from Riverside Drive
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_west.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_west_C_Aug15.jpg)

Easterly view from Riverside Drive.  The pedestrian overpass is new:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_east_Sep09.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_117_east_c_Aug15.jpg)

Signage approaching the Ottawa Road 174 interchange (old Hwy 17)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_114_east.jpg)
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_113-5_east_Aug15.jpg)

Easterly view from the Cyrville Road overpass
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_114_east_C_Aug15.jpg)

I'm thinking the highway wasn't resurfaced as part of the current reconstruction since it will be reconfigured shortly down the road.  I'd imagine that once construction of the LRT has been completed, the highway will get a final coat of asphalt to cover all of the pavement scaring from construction lane scaring.

Additional photos are found on my website here
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy417_p5b_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Henry on April 28, 2016, 10:49:39 AM
Seems to me that the 400-series highways in ON are the best-designed freeway system in all of Canada, with the Autoroutes in QC a close second. The US could learn a thing or two from their neighbors to the north.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 28, 2016, 12:27:24 PM
I think Ontario does a pretty good job with it's freeway design.  There are certainly lessons that other jurisdictions can learn from the decisions that have been made here, however, MTO definitely pays a lot of attention to decisions that are made by FHWA and various US highway departments as well.  Certainly, various US highway jurisdictions are far ahead of Ontario when it comes to road pricing and HOT lane implementation.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on April 28, 2016, 02:52:48 PM
I think Ontario does a pretty good job with it's freeway design.  There are certainly lessons that other jurisdictions can learn from the decisions that have been made here, however, MTO definitely pays a lot of attention to decisions that are made by FHWA and various US highway departments as well.  Certainly, various US highway jurisdictions are far ahead of Ontario when it comes to road pricing and HOT lane implementation.

I've noticed that MTO and NYSDOT share a lot of the same practices. NYSDOT has been adopting several of MTO's practices recently (continuity lines everywhere, speed limit "begins" signage, reflective border, plus others) that other states either have not adopted or have been slow to adopt.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on April 28, 2016, 06:37:03 PM
I though the "begin speed limit XX" signs were becoming less common?  I remember seeing them everywhere when the 65 mph zones in NY were new, but now not so much.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on April 28, 2016, 06:44:33 PM
I though the "begin speed limit XX" signs were becoming less common?  I remember seeing them everywhere when the 65 mph zones in NY were new, but now not so much.

They started coming back in the 2010s. NYSTA's are relatively recent (and I know the ones they have downstate are recent). The ones on the Northway went up within the past 5-10 years. The eastern part of the state had zero in the 90s and 00s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on April 28, 2016, 08:14:24 PM
It's interesting to hear the comparison between MTO's roads and those of New York State.  From a design stand point (not considering signage), I've never really considered MTO's roads to be that similar to that of New York.  To me, MTO roads are much more similar to those in Michigan.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on April 28, 2016, 08:36:48 PM
It's interesting to hear the comparison between MTO's roads and those of New York State.  From a design stand point (not considering signage), I've never really considered MTO's roads to be that similar to that of New York.  To me, MTO roads are much more similar to those in Michigan.

The best comparison is probably New Jersey. Driving in the GTA is quite similar to driving in North Jersey, down to the dual roadways in some places. The New Jersey Turnpike and 401 are two of the longest, if not the longest, quadruple-carriageway limited-access highways in the world.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on April 28, 2016, 10:04:26 PM
I though the "begin speed limit XX" signs were becoming less common?  I remember seeing them everywhere when the 65 mph zones in NY were new, but now not so much.

I don't know if the NYSTA is technically different from the NYSDOT, but I can CLEARLY remember back when I used to do the trucking run in 2003 to Middlefield, OH (yes I was a passenger of course) seeing speed limit signs that said "BEGIN SPEED LIMIT 65" after we crossed the Lackawanna toll barrier, and the Ripley toll barrier. Incidentally, the past weekend, I drove to Erie, PA (and briefly went into Ohio) and I don't recall seeing the BEGIN SPEED LIMIT signs anymore.



As for design standards, I could be wrong on this, but I could have swore that the GTA freeways were inspired by the ones in Chicagoland....it is in Chicago after all where we can find the 401's father, the Dan Ryan Expressway, the concept that was borrowed there with their express-local system and amplified across the top of (what was then) Metropolitan Toronto on Highway 401. Incidentally, I may have read that GTA freeways being based on the Chicagoland freeways on AsphaltPlanet's site.

The NJ Turnpike may use a quadruple-carriageway, but it is different in how it functions than the 401, I'm not sure if these two roads can honestly be compared myself. Unless you want to make an argument that the 401 Express lanes are the Truck Lanes (which they kind of are) but of course they aren't as the express lanes of course don't have direct exits.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on April 28, 2016, 10:36:39 PM
That is recent. The sign was up a month ago. Then again, checking GSV, Region 1 had them in a few locations in the late 2000s as well. Guess my memory is mistaken. Maybe it's just the Northway that got the signs in 2012? Regardless, it's a nice feature that provides positive reinforcement that helps to eliminate confusion at a speed limit change.

The "begin" signs on the Thruway near the Garden State must have gone up when the speed limit on that section was raised. I don't remember "begin" signs when the speed limit increased to 65 at Exit 16 (can someone confirm this?). Similarly, the "begin" signs on 84 must have been installed since 2000, as the speed limit on I-84 didn't increase to 65 until ~2004, IINM.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on April 28, 2016, 10:59:28 PM
That is recent. The sign was up a month ago. Then again, checking GSV, Region 1 had them in a few locations in the late 2000s as well. Guess my memory is mistaken. Maybe it's just the Northway that got the signs in 2012? Regardless, it's a nice feature that provides positive reinforcement that helps to eliminate confusion at a speed limit change.

The "begin" signs on the Thruway near the Garden State must have gone up when the speed limit on that section was raised. I don't remember "begin" signs when the speed limit increased to 65 at Exit 16 (can someone confirm this?). Similarly, the "begin" signs on 84 must have been installed since 2000, as the speed limit on I-84 didn't increase to 65 until ~2004, IINM.

It looks like I was mistaken, indeed, when you are heading WB on the Thruway past the Lackawanna Barrier, there is indeed a BEGIN SPEED LIMIT 65 sign, but a similar one doesn't exist in Ripley.....does the legal speed change at toll plazas, I don't think it does in NY but I could be wrong.

If there is anything that has a similar feel in design to something in NY up here, what reminds me of a common overpass on the Thruway you can find at the DVP at Spanbridge Road:

(https://goo.gl/maps/X8eNvXUuHSC2)

I was thinking more so with the bridge piers, there is no other bridge (to my knowledge) that has this design anywhere else in Ontario, yes I know this is a City of Toronto road and not under MTO jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 11, 2016, 10:27:46 AM
http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/6713632-walk-run-or-wheel-on-hwy-407-in-whitby/

If anyone wants to clinch a section of freeway before it opens (by walking on it), here is your opportunity!  :-D

Based on the article, my prediction is that the 407 will open on Sunday, 19 June (a day after the event). Still no official date though  :-/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 11, 2016, 10:31:24 PM
http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/6713632-walk-run-or-wheel-on-hwy-407-in-whitby/

If anyone wants to clinch a section of freeway before it opens (by walking on it), here is your opportunity!  :-D

Based on the article, my prediction is that the 407 will open on Sunday, 19 June (a day after the event). Still no official date though  :-/

Gotta love these kind of things.  I was able to clinch PA Turnpike 576 in a similar way.  Walked/drove the first 2 miles, then was able to clinch the other 4 miles on a PAT bus that was giving tours of the other part. :)  Gotta love being able to clinch a toll highway for free, and before it opens. :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: ghYHZ on June 12, 2016, 07:55:29 AM
Gotta love these kind of things.  I was able to clinch PA Turnpike 576 in a similar way.  Walked/drove the first 2 miles, then was able to clinch the other 4 miles on a PAT bus that was giving tours of the other part. :)  Gotta love being able to clinch a toll highway for free, and before it opens. :)

I did that too....the day before the Confederation Bridge opened. Took the ferry over to PEI (the last day they operated...and a last ride!) then walked the 13 km back to New Brunswick on the bridge. Masses of people...so many they were telling you to stay to the right of the centre-line.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on June 12, 2016, 10:53:47 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 12, 2016, 11:49:44 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?

Yes, because their opening dates were delayed. They were supposed to open last fall, but that didn't happen. To compensate, the Ontario government said it will not charge toll fees for a few months.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on June 13, 2016, 07:32:21 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?

Yes, because their opening dates were delayed. They were supposed to open last fall, but that didn't happen. To compensate, the Ontario government said it will not charge toll fees for a few months.
ROAD TRIP.
Hopefully details are posted here so I can schedule my annual Canadian excursion.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 13, 2016, 10:39:32 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?

Yes, because their opening dates were delayed. They were supposed to open last fall, but that didn't happen. To compensate, the Ontario government said it will not charge toll fees for a few months.
ROAD TRIP.
Hopefully details are posted here so I can schedule my annual Canadian excursion.

Please. Post details. I'll make another journey to Toronto to clinch the thing if I have to.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 13, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?

Yes, because their opening dates were delayed. They were supposed to open last fall, but that didn't happen. To compensate, the Ontario government said it will not charge toll fees for a few months.
ROAD TRIP.
Hopefully details are posted here so I can schedule my annual Canadian excursion.

Not too long ago you were saying that you would pay a fortune for a M-C Freeway shield, when commenting on our group photo, and that cost wasn't an issue....yet you want to bolt up here to get a free ride on 407 Toll? Sorry, it had to be said :D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on June 13, 2016, 11:17:08 PM
I heard today that the newly opened highways will be toll free for awhile? Three months?

Yes, because their opening dates were delayed. They were supposed to open last fall, but that didn't happen. To compensate, the Ontario government said it will not charge toll fees for a few months.
ROAD TRIP.
Hopefully details are posted here so I can schedule my annual Canadian excursion.

Not too long ago you were saying that you would pay a fortune for a M-C Freeway shield, when commenting on our group photo, and that cost wasn't an issue....yet you want to bolt up here to get a free ride on 407 Toll? Sorry, it had to be said :D
An M-C shield is an investment. I'll never get anything from that toll. Also, I passed an M-C shield years ago - the last one - and failed to get a photo. Still kicking myself for not turning around for it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 17, 2016, 03:01:08 PM
Breaking news: 407 East opening on Monday

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/06/first-section-of-new-highway-407-set-to-open.html

Quote
Today, Ontario announced that the first section of the new Highway 407 in Durham Region will be open to traffic for morning commuters on Monday, June 20, helping to manage congestion and supporting economic growth in the region.

The highway will be open from Brock Road in Pickering to Harmony Road in Oshawa. Highway 412, which connects Highway 407 and Highway 401, will also open. There will be a toll-free period on the new Highways 407 and 412 until the new year, allowing drivers to travel on these roads free of charge. Following that, tolls will be in place.

You have until the end of December to clinch them toll-free.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 18, 2016, 10:34:16 PM
http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/6713632-walk-run-or-wheel-on-hwy-407-in-whitby/

If anyone wants to clinch a section of freeway before it opens (by walking on it), here is your opportunity!  :-D

Based on the article, my prediction is that the 407 will open on Sunday, 19 June (a day after the event). Still no official date though  :-/

I took advantage of this and did a few legal selfies for the fun of it:

(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g313/MrSG-1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmeconp63.jpeg)

As the road will not be tolled until Jan 1, 2017, all reference to it being a toll road is covered up or removed. Hence the TOLL tab is missing from this shield.

(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g313/MrSG-1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjambksfi.jpeg)

Yes, it was kind of like a street festival, the kind of things that Pearson Airport puts on yearly in the fall where you get to walk on the tarmac.

(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g313/MrSG-1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqhespu5i.jpeg)

(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g313/MrSG-1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpspejxmtbx.jpeg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 20, 2016, 12:08:54 PM
407 and 412 are now open.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/06/20/highway-407-extension-opens-in-durham-region/

Time to see how long it takes Google to update the maps  :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 20, 2016, 02:47:35 PM
407 and 412 are now open.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/06/20/highway-407-extension-opens-in-durham-region/

Time to see how long it takes Google to update the maps  :-D

412 is already showing on Google.

Waze has already been updated and OPP is running a speed trap just east of the Sideline 14 bridge (where the meet photo was). 401 is supposedly quite backed up at 412.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 20, 2016, 03:11:22 PM
407 and 412 are now open.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/06/20/highway-407-extension-opens-in-durham-region/

Time to see how long it takes Google to update the maps  :-D

412 is already showing on Google.

Waze has already been updated and OPP is running a speed trap just east of the Sideline 14 bridge (where the meet photo was). 401 is supposedly quite backed up at 412.

I drove on the 412 NB and seriously, I counted six OPP cruisers on the road. They really wanted us to know that we can't take advantage of the road....if you didn't see already, this is what I took this morning at around 7:


This is heading NB on 412 and then WB on 407 to Brock Road....I didn't want to be charged for no reason after all.


This is from the eastern terminus heading WB on 407 to SB on 412.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 20, 2016, 03:18:55 PM
Nice. Given the frequency at which I have seen OPP running a traffic detail, I didn't realize they even owned 6 radar guns.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 20, 2016, 03:27:58 PM
Nice. Given the frequency at which I have seen OPP running a traffic detail, I didn't realize they even owned 6 radar guns.

Well who knows, there were two groups of two cop cars facing each other in the median, perhaps they weren't doing enforcement but just chatting. I didn't run into any OPP on the 407 though.

Also interesting of note is the temporary scales they can set up, again you know my opinion about weigh stations on toll roads, they are never seen on toll roads in the US. And yes I can understand going up the 412 to beat the Whitby scale beyond Thickson Road on the 401, there doesn't seem to be a purpose in the SB scale on Hwy 412, as truck traffic heading east would potentially have to face another scale, the abforementoned Whitby Scale. Of course I'm assuming a truck uses the 407 and comes down the 412 onto the 401 in my example of potentially facing two consecutive scales.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: tdindy88 on June 20, 2016, 06:03:12 PM
What's the speed limit along this highway, so I know what to stick close to when I drive along it Saturday.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 20, 2016, 06:59:28 PM
With Ontario, all the 400 freeways are (most of the time) 100 km/h. No exception here. But you should know that the general flow of traffic goes about 110-120.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 20, 2016, 07:06:55 PM
With Ontario, all the 400 freeways are (most of the time) 100 km/h. No exception here. But you should know that the general flow of traffic goes about 110-120.

Correct. There are very few exceptions, notably approaching the US border (drops when nearing Customs), 420 (entire length is 80), 403 in Hamilton (80), and 406 in St. Catharines (80). Traffic often moves at least 120. Just make sure you're not the fastest person and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 20, 2016, 10:27:58 PM
What's the speed limit along this highway, so I know what to stick close to when I drive along it Saturday.

The best advice I can give to someone driving in a new jurisdiction would be for them to pay attention to those around them.

If you are passing everyone, you're going to fast.

If you are being passed by everyone, you're going to slow.

If you are passing some people and passing others, you're doing it right.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on June 20, 2016, 11:50:55 PM
Just don't go 50 over. OPP reserves the right to impound your car if you do. Granted, that's the equivalent of going 93 mph, but you have been warned.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on June 21, 2016, 12:53:40 PM
Hey, how about a highway that almost never gets any attention on here? Hwy 138 planning study is underway:

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2016/06/14/focus-on-highway-138

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 21, 2016, 11:11:55 PM
Hey, how about a highway that almost never gets any attention on here? Hwy 138 planning study is underway:

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2016/06/14/focus-on-highway-138

I haven't thought of that one. That would be a nice project to watch if I still lived in Orleans   :)
I could definitely see the logic in adding passing lanes on that roadway. It appears to be a major two lane highway right now, going to Cornwall and all. I don't know much about 138 though, so I can't really comment.

I heard something about improving County 174 at Trim Rd in Orleans (making Trim Rd an interchange) east to Rockland or something in that nature. AADT in that area apparently is 25 000. Orleans eastwards has grown quite a bit and just recently Trim Rd itself was changed from a two lane country road into a four lane urban boulevard.



Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 23, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
Some photos of Highway 412:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_0-25_south_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_1_south_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_2_south_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_cl_1_north_sunset_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_7-5_north_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_8-5_north_Jun20-16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_9-5_north_Jun20-16.jpg)

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy412_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 24, 2016, 07:16:26 AM
Some photos of Highway 412:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/Hwy412_images.htm

Might want to update your page.  At the bottom, the last 5 images you show, you list dates in 2010. ;)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on June 24, 2016, 07:57:42 AM
Lol thanks, the link at the bottom of the page takes people to the 410 as well.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: aridawn on June 25, 2016, 03:32:23 PM
I traveled the new routes on opening day, at six in the morning beautiful drive with no traffic.   I am wondering why ON-412 has no shields posted in either direction where as 407, has route reassurance shields posted at opening?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on June 25, 2016, 10:04:26 PM
I assume it's because they accidentally put up 412 ETR shields (since taken down) and need to manufacture the correct ON 412 shields.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on June 25, 2016, 10:16:26 PM
I assume it's because they accidentally put up 412 ETR shields (since taken down) and need to manufacture the correct ON 412 shields.

Yup, the reassurance shields on the 407 in that area surrounding the 412 interchange oddly just have an "EAST" or "WEST" tab that looks like an ETR tab with no shield at all. I think it was an honest mistake by the contractor, but some are suggesting it's potential foreshadowing on who will get these new roads.....
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on June 27, 2016, 01:01:57 PM
I assume it's because they accidentally put up 412 ETR shields (since taken down) and need to manufacture the correct ON 412 shields.

I was wondering why there were no picture of the 412 shields. I'm assuming these will be white-on-blue like the new 407 shields?

I think it was an honest mistake by the contractor, but some are suggesting it's potential foreshadowing on who will get these new roads.....

I certainly hope not! The last thing we need is the 407 ETR taking more of our toll money  :banghead: It's bad enough the provincial government will still be charging toll rates almost as high as the ETR
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on June 29, 2016, 05:03:31 PM
 
 
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/412_dv_9-5_north_Jun20-16.jpg)

I notice the control city for 407 EAST sign is covered up until the 407 is completed to 35/115. I can see the tip of the "G" in "Peterborough".
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 29, 2016, 06:45:35 PM
I assume it's because they accidentally put up 412 ETR shields (since taken down) and need to manufacture the correct ON 412 shields.

I was wondering why there were no picture of the 412 shields. I'm assuming these will be white-on-blue like the new 407 shields?

I think it was an honest mistake by the contractor, but some are suggesting it's potential foreshadowing on who will get these new roads.....

I certainly hope not! The last thing we need is the 407 ETR taking more of our toll money  :banghead: It's bad enough the provincial government will still be charging toll rates almost as high as the ETR

I saw this article via Tollroadsnews about Hwy-407 ETC, West Face pushes SNC-Lavalin to sell his 407 stake.
http://tollroadsnews.com/news/daily-news-brief-june-29-2016#10
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/west-face-pushes-snc-lavalin-to-sell-highway-407-stake-sources-say/article30649570/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 09, 2016, 08:40:54 AM
I posted these on another forum, but here are a few recent photos of Hwy 69 between Parry Sound and Sudbury:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_166_south_t_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_166_north_t_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_168_south_SB_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_168_south_c_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_168_north_c_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_cl_168_north_NB_Jun16.jpg)

My Hwy 69 page:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2016, 12:05:52 PM
Looks like it will be done on time. How did you manage to get on the overpass during construction? Surely it must be closed off to the public, right?

I've been looking for an update on this, thanks for providing it.

According to Ontario 511, this section should open by the 26 August. It looks like it may open earlier than that.

If anyone is interested: http://www.highway69.ca/highway69/index.html

I doubt the entire road will be done by 2021. But maybe it will?

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 09, 2016, 12:11:00 PM
Looks like it will be done on time. How did you manage to get on the overpass during construction? Surely it must be closed off to the public, right?

Same way we got on 407 overpasses during the Toronto meet- he probably walked on and nobody stopped him. Not like there's a fence preventing access or anything and the overpass is probably completed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 14, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
I decided to take a few photos of my namesake highway in Kitchener :)

For those who don't know, the widening of 7/8 from 4 to 6 lanes is almost complete. Here's the link for the project website:
http://www.highway7-8.com/Pages/Home.aspx (http://www.highway7-8.com/Pages/Home.aspx)

The project started in the fall of 2011 and will be complete by August. In addition to widening, there were interchange improvements, installation of high mast lighting, more noise barriers, etc. The project limits are from just west of Fischer-Hallman Rd to the 7/8 split

Views from the shopping centre by the Homer Watson interchange:
(http://i.imgur.com/ToRbFmf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FPzEhK9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qZdQeS9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/36t3qPH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9Asa6Go.jpg)

Line-Painting from the 7/8 split to just before Homer Watson Blvd. This was causing traffic even at 9pm:
(http://i.imgur.com/u5gyW9T.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TRYkyRN.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 15, 2016, 09:28:53 AM
Looks like most of the paving is done.  I was last out there in May, at that time all of the signs had been erected, but top coarse paving had yet to begin.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 15, 2016, 10:30:02 PM
Thanks for the pictures. To be honest, this project slipped through the cracks for me. Looks good as usual. Hope the old 'Homer Watson Blvd' sign is removed, or we'll have a candidate of the 'Department of Redundancy Department' thread.

Also, for fun, I made up a sign drawing for the 64 at 69 interchange last year, but never posted it. I want to see how close I got before the real sign is revealed.

(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b551/slik_sh00ter/64North-aaroads%20modified%202016.05.23_zpsw4o2wfe1.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 15, 2016, 11:30:26 PM
Looks like most of the paving is done.  I was last out there in May, at that time all of the signs had been erected, but top coarse paving had yet to begin.

I saw a few spots that still need surface asphalt, but to me it looks like they should have no problems finishing on time.

Thanks for the pictures. To be honest, this project slipped through the cracks for me. Looks good as usual. Hope the old 'Homer Watson Blvd' sign is removed, or we'll have a candidate of the 'Department of Redundancy Department' thread.

Also, for fun, I made up a sign drawing for the 64 at 69 interchange last year, but never posted it. I want to see how close I got before the real sign is revealed.

(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b551/slik_sh00ter/64North-aaroads%20modified%202016.05.23_zpsw4o2wfe1.png)

You're right, I didn't notice how silly it is that there are two Homer Watson signs one after the other. If it's still there in August, I'll add it to that thread :)

At first I saw the black squares and thought you were going for the New Jersey look, but then I saw the "omit black surrounding shield/arrow"  :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 16, 2016, 07:49:01 AM
Good work on the sign.

The real sign signs both 64 and Daoust Lake Road Road, so it's quite a long sign.  I also believe that Sturgeon Falls has been included as a control city.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 16, 2016, 12:29:32 PM
Good work on the sign.

The real sign signs both 64 and Daoust Lake Road, so it's quite a long sign.  I also believe that Sturgeon Falls has been included as a control city.

I wasn't aware there was a road name for 64. Anyway, I do these type of things for fun. I try to put myself into the head of the sign person who designs it (including incorporating the DOT's standard's, in this case the MTO).

Also, on Google Earth, it looks like there is work being done south of there at ON 607. I'm not sure if there is supposed to be an interchange there (it would make sense), but looks like earthwork is underway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 17, 2016, 06:21:45 PM
I finally got to take the 412 and part of the new 407 extension today. I know pictures have already been posted here, but I wanted to take some too :)

Exit signs on 401 WB for 412
(http://i.imgur.com/TeSMStT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GyeslQs.jpg)

Current median is all gravel. Do they plan on planting grass?
(http://i.imgur.com/XYKMEFM.jpg)


Compare the exit signs for Exit 5 and Exit 9. Is it just me, or is the font different? The second one doesn't look as good to me.
(http://i.imgur.com/aP9cKmB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hWXw6HL.jpg)

Taunton Rd Overpass
(http://i.imgur.com/Vdy9b2W.jpg)

Signage for 407 Exit
(http://i.imgur.com/P73rFJQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EiH8mjw.jpg)

As pointed out earlier, Peterborough is covered up on these 407 signs
(http://i.imgur.com/RezoFBQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ljdq1RB.jpg)

On ramp to 407 WB. What font is this? It doesn't look like FHWA, but maybe I'm wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/dRHUYiM.jpg)

The white-on-blue 407 shield I love so much :) I didn't see any 412 shields up yet.
(http://i.imgur.com/PzQDuSo.jpg)

Sign notifying drivers that they're switching from the provincial 407 to the 407 ETR
(http://i.imgur.com/aNEuB5b.jpg)


Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 17, 2016, 06:33:24 PM
Compare the exit signs for Exit 5 and Exit 9. Is it just me, or is the font different? The second one doesn't look as good to me.
(http://i.imgur.com/aP9cKmB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hWXw6HL.jpg)

Both of them are series EM. But the '9' seems bigger than the '5'. I think they're so big because the exit numbers are single digits.

On ramp to 407 WB. What font is this? It doesn't look like FHWA, but maybe I'm wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/dRHUYiM.jpg)

You're correct to be suspicious. It is FHWA series C. Ontario typically uses 'D'.

Not sure why that sign was made using 'C' though  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 17, 2016, 07:10:37 PM
^ I knew I could count on SignGeek101 to answer my font questions :-D

I also took a few pictures on the 407 ETR today.

All the signs for Donald Cousens Parkway had a very condensed font. I know it has to do with the long name, but it still looks odd to me.
(http://i.imgur.com/BytyKuY.jpg)

The numbers for the Regional Roads seem too small compared to the size of the Flowerpot shields. I've never noticed this on MTO signs.
(http://i.imgur.com/LnxZxq1.jpg)

I posted this sign in the "Design Errors" thread. The "2.5 km" doesn't line up, and it looks too close together.
(http://i.imgur.com/b3vGIox.jpg)

The 407 logo seems disproportionally big too me.
(http://i.imgur.com/28A5QML.jpg)

I remember my boss at the MTO being surprised at how the 407 ETR is 6 lanes wide, and isn't split into an express-collector system. I agree, if your tire bursts in the middle lanes, it's a long way to the shoulder :-/
(http://i.imgur.com/qeFl5t2.jpg)

There seems to be a long construction zone, this picture is taken before Bramalea Rd heading WB. I saw a few lightposts laying on their sides, and the TCB (temporary concrete barrier) stretches for dozens of kms.
(http://i.imgur.com/sPikOhr.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 18, 2016, 01:32:41 AM
So I'm planning to head down to Toronto next year. I decided to read up on Ontario's highways and learned about the large downloading in 1997-1998.

It's said that the downloading was for highways that had more local significance than for through traffic, but some downloadings in the GTA don't make sense to me.

Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 18, 2016, 07:44:02 AM
So I'm planning to head down to Toronto next year. I decided to read up on Ontario's highways and learned about the large downloading in 1997-1998.

It's said that the downloading was for highways that had more local significance than for through traffic, but some downloadings in the GTA don't make sense to me.

Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?

I have the same questions too. Ontario already has the concept of Connecting Links, where a provincially highway is signed as a highway, but is actually locally maintained. Why didn't they make more of these Connecting Links instead of mass downloading?

Victoria St in Kitchener is a good example of a well-done Connecting Link. It is signed as both Highway 7 and RR 55. Everyone calls it Hwy 7, but the RR 55 shield lets you know that the road is maintained by the region.

Also, the cost of replacing all the signs for downloading most of cost a lot of money! And now you have situations like Highway 9 where there's a large gap filled by CR 109. To make matters more confusing, there are still some signs referring to the old highways, and Apple Maps and some GPS's still incorrectly use the old highway numbers! :pan:

In my opinion, it made a mess of our highway system, and it makes me jealous of other states/provinces that have a more extensive and logical state/provincial highway system.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 18, 2016, 11:12:19 AM
Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?

I heard the downloading in 1997 were for roads that were redundant (parallel to each other that travelled a great distance, like ON 2 and 401 in eastern Ontario). ON 2 was axed except for a small piece in eastern Ontario. It was turned into CR 2 in most areas. The downloading in 1998 was because the provincial government at the time was in debt (it still is) and wanted to transfer maintenance to the counties (passing the hot potato I suppose). Many of these transfers were illogical.

As for the GTA, I'm not sure where the original routes were (except for ON 2). The QEW through Toronto was turned over to the city (now called the Gardiner Exwy). You can still find signs for ON 2 in Toronto though (and other formally provincial routes across the province).

Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qSihMcgMgj32 (in the background you can see the CR shield now)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 18, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?

I heard the downloading in 1997 were for roads that were redundant (parallel to each other that travelled a great distance, like ON 2 and 401 in eastern Ontario). ON 2 was axed except for a small piece in eastern Ontario. It was turned into CR 2 in most areas. The downloading in 1998 was because the provincial government at the time was in debt (it still is) and wanted to transfer maintenance to the counties (passing the hot potato I suppose). Many of these transfers were illogical.

As for the GTA, I'm not sure where the original routes were (except for ON 2). The QEW through Toronto was turned over to the city (now called the Gardiner Exwy). You can still find signs for ON 2 in Toronto though (and other formally provincial routes across the province).

Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qSihMcgMgj32 (in the background you can see the CR shield now)

Highway 7 became Peel RR 107 and York RR 7. Mostly followed Queen Street and the road is still named "Highway 7" in places.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 18, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?

I heard the downloading in 1997 were for roads that were redundant (parallel to each other that travelled a great distance, like ON 2 and 401 in eastern Ontario). ON 2 was axed except for a small piece in eastern Ontario. It was turned into CR 2 in most areas. The downloading in 1998 was because the provincial government at the time was in debt (it still is) and wanted to transfer maintenance to the counties (passing the hot potato I suppose). Many of these transfers were illogical.

As for the GTA, I'm not sure where the original routes were (except for ON 2). The QEW through Toronto was turned over to the city (now called the Gardiner Exwy). You can still find signs for ON 2 in Toronto though (and other formally provincial routes across the province).

Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qSihMcgMgj32 (in the background you can see the CR shield now)

Highway 7 became Peel RR 107 and York RR 7. Mostly followed Queen Street and the road is still named "Highway 7" in places.
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 18, 2016, 04:11:30 PM
Why weren't the designations kept to be easy routes to follow in the GTA? It would've still had significance to a tourist to navigate the GTA (outside of freeways) and pass by landmarks. Was it because they were useless for people passing through, or were they actually just for locals?

I heard the downloading in 1997 were for roads that were redundant (parallel to each other that travelled a great distance, like ON 2 and 401 in eastern Ontario). ON 2 was axed except for a small piece in eastern Ontario. It was turned into CR 2 in most areas. The downloading in 1998 was because the provincial government at the time was in debt (it still is) and wanted to transfer maintenance to the counties (passing the hot potato I suppose). Many of these transfers were illogical.

As for the GTA, I'm not sure where the original routes were (except for ON 2). The QEW through Toronto was turned over to the city (now called the Gardiner Exwy). You can still find signs for ON 2 in Toronto though (and other formally provincial routes across the province).

Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qSihMcgMgj32 (in the background you can see the CR shield now)

Highway 7 became Peel RR 107 and York RR 7. Mostly followed Queen Street and the road is still named "Highway 7" in places.
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

That and 402 further west. I expect more to be downloaded as 407 gets extended.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 18, 2016, 04:11:51 PM
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

Supposedly that is the case:

Quote
The western segment was separated from the rest of Highway 7 on June 7, 1997, when the section from Brampton to Markham was downloaded due to the opening of Highway 407.

Now that a new section of ON 407 (not to be confused with 407 ETR, but connected to it) opened last month, who knows if the ON 7 to the south will be axed as well?

I would guess the same thing happened when the 427 opened (though that opened in 1971). The MTO I guess decided that having two provincial highways side-by-side didn't make sense (which it really doesn't in this case).  By the way, ON 427 is going to be extended farther north:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/03/ontario-moving-forward-on-highway-427-expansion.html

In Toronto, CR 2, 7, 11A, 27 and 50 were all formally provincial highways. Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shield for any of these guys except for 2. It took awhile for me to even find the old alignment for ON 50.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 18, 2016, 04:15:31 PM
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

Supposedly that is the case:

Quote
The western segment was separated from the rest of Highway 7 on June 7, 1997, when the section from Brampton to Markham was downloaded due to the opening of Highway 407.

Now that a new section of ON 407 (not to be confused with 407 ETR, but connected to it) opened last month, who knows if the ON 7 to the south will be axed as well?

I would guess the same thing happened when the 427 opened (though that opened in 1971). The MTO I guess decided that having two provincial highways side-by-side didn't make sense (which it really doesn't in this case).  By the way, ON 427 is going to be extended farther north:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/03/ontario-moving-forward-on-highway-427-expansion.html

In Toronto, CR 2, 7, 11A, 27 and 50 were all formally provincial highways. Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shield for any of these guys except for 2. It took awhile for me to even find the old alignment for ON 50.

The others are pretty evident.

404 was recently extended to the north and it is quite nice. 410 is a CF with the ongoing widening.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 18, 2016, 11:05:23 PM
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

Supposedly that is the case:

Quote
The western segment was separated from the rest of Highway 7 on June 7, 1997, when the section from Brampton to Markham was downloaded due to the opening of Highway 407.

Now that a new section of ON 407 (not to be confused with 407 ETR, but connected to it) opened last month, who knows if the ON 7 to the south will be axed as well?

I would guess the same thing happened when the 427 opened (though that opened in 1971). The MTO I guess decided that having two provincial highways side-by-side didn't make sense (which it really doesn't in this case).  By the way, ON 427 is going to be extended farther north:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/03/ontario-moving-forward-on-highway-427-expansion.html

In Toronto, CR 2, 7, 11A, 27 and 50 were all formally provincial highways. Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shield for any of these guys except for 2. It took awhile for me to even find the old alignment for ON 50.

There are still a fair number of outdated provincial highway shields outside the GTA. I've seen Highway 59 shields at Norfolk CR 59 and Hwy 3, Hwy 54 shields also by Hwy 3, and a Hwy 8 shield on King St E near the 401. I've probably seen more, but can't remember where.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 18, 2016, 11:21:31 PM
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

Supposedly that is the case:

Quote
The western segment was separated from the rest of Highway 7 on June 7, 1997, when the section from Brampton to Markham was downloaded due to the opening of Highway 407.

Now that a new section of ON 407 (not to be confused with 407 ETR, but connected to it) opened last month, who knows if the ON 7 to the south will be axed as well?

I would guess the same thing happened when the 427 opened (though that opened in 1971). The MTO I guess decided that having two provincial highways side-by-side didn't make sense (which it really doesn't in this case).  By the way, ON 427 is going to be extended farther north:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/03/ontario-moving-forward-on-highway-427-expansion.html

In Toronto, CR 2, 7, 11A, 27 and 50 were all formally provincial highways. Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shield for any of these guys except for 2. It took awhile for me to even find the old alignment for ON 50.

There are still a fair number of outdated provincial highway shields outside the GTA. I've seen Highway 59 shields at Norfolk CR 59 and Hwy 3, Hwy 54 shields also by Hwy 3, and a Hwy 8 shield on King St E near the 401. I've probably seen more, but can't remember where.

There's a Highway 11 shield kicking around SB on Yonge just beyond Steeles attached to a lamppost. It's very faded but it's still there.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 18, 2016, 11:28:38 PM
What was Highway 7's replacement? Was it Highway 407 ETR? I'm planning on doing roadgeeking in the GTA while I'm at it and I'm trying to find old King's Highway signs prior the downloading, so that's why I'm wondering what the original highways were too.

Supposedly that is the case:

Quote
The western segment was separated from the rest of Highway 7 on June 7, 1997, when the section from Brampton to Markham was downloaded due to the opening of Highway 407.

Now that a new section of ON 407 (not to be confused with 407 ETR, but connected to it) opened last month, who knows if the ON 7 to the south will be axed as well?

I would guess the same thing happened when the 427 opened (though that opened in 1971). The MTO I guess decided that having two provincial highways side-by-side didn't make sense (which it really doesn't in this case).  By the way, ON 427 is going to be extended farther north:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/03/ontario-moving-forward-on-highway-427-expansion.html

In Toronto, CR 2, 7, 11A, 27 and 50 were all formally provincial highways. Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shield for any of these guys except for 2. It took awhile for me to even find the old alignment for ON 50.

There are still a fair number of outdated provincial highway shields outside the GTA. I've seen Highway 59 shields at Norfolk CR 59 and Hwy 3, Hwy 54 shields also by Hwy 3, and a Hwy 8 shield on King St E near the 401. I've probably seen more, but can't remember where.

There's a Highway 11 shield kicking around SB on Yonge just beyond Steeles attached to a lamppost. It's very faded but it's still there.

https://goo.gl/maps/cLca2S9erSL2

That one is at least 30 years old. Look at the 1's without the serif.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 19, 2016, 01:14:11 AM
Looks like the former highways in the GTA were replaced by freeways. 2 was replaced by 401, 7 by 407, 11 by 400, 27 by 427 and 400, and 50 by nothing? Not sure what Highway 50 would have in terms of importance.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 19, 2016, 02:06:20 AM
Looks like the former highways in the GTA were replaced by freeways. 2 was replaced by 401, 7 by 407, 11 by 400, 27 by 427 and 400, and 50 by nothing? Not sure what Highway 50 would have in terms of importance.

Not everything was simply replaced by freeways, these highways existed for their own purpose. If I recall Highway 50 was first designed to take you from what is now Nashville Road (which was a provincial highway) up to Bolton. This highway was then extended to meet Hwy 27 in Etobicoke and Highway 89 close to Alliston.

If you want to play this game, which freeway replaced Hwy 5, or how about Hwy 48? I don't see anything remotely close that replaces Hwy 25. Similarly Highway 24 is downloaded north of the 401, which freeway replaced that one?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 20, 2016, 12:58:22 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, but do you guys think having the 412, 418 and 35/115 is a bit overkill? How many ways do people need to get between the 401 and the 407? I would think the 412 and 35/115 would suffice.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 01:10:12 PM
Looks like the former highways in the GTA were replaced by freeways. 2 was replaced by 401, 7 by 407, 11 by 400, 27 by 427 and 400, and 50 by nothing? Not sure what Highway 50 would have in terms of importance.

Not everything was simply replaced by freeways, these highways existed for their own purpose. If I recall Highway 50 was first designed to take you from what is now Nashville Road (which was a provincial highway) up to Bolton. This highway was then extended to meet Hwy 27 in Etobicoke and Highway 89 close to Alliston.

If you want to play this game, which freeway replaced Hwy 5, or how about Hwy 48? I don't see anything remotely close that replaces Hwy 25. Similarly Highway 24 is downloaded north of the 401, which freeway replaced that one?
Was it the 1998 downloading that killed these highways that served an independent purpose from the freeways? Or were they just for local traffic and thus were downloaded?

I can get only two highways that were replaced by freeways. Highway 5 by Highway 403, and Highway 48 by Highway 404, up until Sutton. So it seems that they all served an independent purpose and were unfortunately killed due to the government being in debt.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 20, 2016, 05:33:31 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, but do you guys think having the 412, 418 and 35/115 is a bit overkill? How many ways do people need to get between the 401 and the 407? I would think the 412 and 35/115 would suffice.

I agree 2 connectors are a little redundant, but it provides redundancy. One thing that Toronto area highways lack is redundancy.

Plus, since 35/115 goes a little northeast/southwest, you're actually backtracking longitudinally to get to the 401 or 407 with this route. This highway also isn't 100km/h and doesn't have the same design standards as 412 / 418.

So overall, I'm a fan of 2 new freeway connections. Only one is really needed, but I'll take 2!
-I just wish these connector freeways weren't tolled as well.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 20, 2016, 06:29:03 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, but do you guys think having the 412, 418 and 35/115 is a bit overkill? How many ways do people need to get between the 401 and the 407? I would think the 412 and 35/115 would suffice.

I agree 2 connectors are a little redundant, but it provides redundancy. One thing that Toronto area highways lack is redundancy.

Plus, since 35/115 goes a little northeast/southwest, you're actually backtracking longitudinally to get to the 401 or 407 with this route. This highway also isn't 100km/h and doesn't have the same design standards as 412 / 418.

So overall, I'm a fan of 2 new freeway connections. Only one is really needed, but I'll take 2!
-I just wish these connector freeways weren't tolled as well.

That's true, so I guess without the 418, everyone would likely use the 412 instead of 35/115. I still wonder if the money spent on the 418 could be better used elsewhere, but it doesn't matter now anyways.

I just noticed on Google Maps, 35/115 is shown in orange as a freeway. I'm pretty sure this used to be shown in yellow as a regular highway. I guess Google has changed their standards for when to use orange? I think this is a good call; even though it's not a full freeway, it's still clearly better than an undivided highway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 20, 2016, 07:14:04 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, but do you guys think having the 412, 418 and 35/115 is a bit overkill? How many ways do people need to get between the 401 and the 407? I would think the 412 and 35/115 would suffice.

I agree 2 connectors are a little redundant, but it provides redundancy. One thing that Toronto area highways lack is redundancy.

Plus, since 35/115 goes a little northeast/southwest, you're actually backtracking longitudinally to get to the 401 or 407 with this route. This highway also isn't 100km/h and doesn't have the same design standards as 412 / 418.

So overall, I'm a fan of 2 new freeway connections. Only one is really needed, but I'll take 2!
-I just wish these connector freeways weren't tolled as well.

That's true, so I guess without the 418, everyone would likely use the 412 instead of 35/115. I still wonder if the money spent on the 418 could be better used elsewhere, but it doesn't matter now anyways.

I just noticed on Google Maps, 35/115 is shown in orange as a freeway. I' pretty sure this used to be shown in yellow as a regular highway. I guess Google has changed their standards for when to use orange? I think this is a good call; even though it's not a full freeway, it's still clearly better than an undivided highway.

Even if it's not a freeway, the road is free flowing, no traffic lights or stop signs. Like Hwy 11, this kind of road I believe is called a RIRO (Right-in right-out) Expressway. This kind of road is sometimes called a "Jersey Freeway".

NJ 17 is a similar road to 35/115 in Greater New York, albeit it is set in a heavy suburban area, I was on it once when the megabus I once took to NYC used NJ 17 from the Thruway to reach the Lincoln Tunnel. As for the megabus....never again! I don't care how cheap it is.


Perhaps Orange on google maps indicates some form of controlled access, (indeed a RIRO is not controlled access) as NS 104 between Antigonish and New Glasgow, which is a super 2 is shown as an orange route.

NL 75, if you guys ever have to chance to drive it, is an extremely poorly designed Super 2 that's not even fully controlled access, what's worse is that this road opened in the early 20-aughts. NL 75 should definitely not be orange on the map.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 20, 2016, 07:27:44 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet, but do you guys think having the 412, 418 and 35/115 is a bit overkill? How many ways do people need to get between the 401 and the 407? I would think the 412 and 35/115 would suffice.

I agree 2 connectors are a little redundant, but it provides redundancy. One thing that Toronto area highways lack is redundancy.

Plus, since 35/115 goes a little northeast/southwest, you're actually backtracking longitudinally to get to the 401 or 407 with this route. This highway also isn't 100km/h and doesn't have the same design standards as 412 / 418.

So overall, I'm a fan of 2 new freeway connections. Only one is really needed, but I'll take 2!
-I just wish these connector freeways weren't tolled as well.

That's true, so I guess without the 418, everyone would likely use the 412 instead of 35/115. I still wonder if the money spent on the 418 could be better used elsewhere, but it doesn't matter now anyways.

I just noticed on Google Maps, 35/115 is shown in orange as a freeway. I' pretty sure this used to be shown in yellow as a regular highway. I guess Google has changed their standards for when to use orange? I think this is a good call; even though it's not a full freeway, it's still clearly better than an undivided highway.

Even if it's not a freeway, the road is free flowing, no traffic lights or stop signs. Like Hwy 11, this kind of road I believe is called a RIRO (Right-in right-out) Expressway. This kind of road is sometimes called a "Jersey Freeway".

It's weird though that the RIRO sections of Hwy 11 between Barrie and Gravenhurst are in yellow instead of orange. I can't think of any practical difference between Hwy 11's RIRO sections and 35/115.

NJ 17 is a similar road to 35/115 in Greater New York, albeit it is set in a heavy suburban area, I was on it once when the megabus I once took to NYC used NJ 17 from the Thruway to reach the Lincoln Tunnel. As for the megabus....never again! I don't care how cheap it is.

I took NJ 38 between NJ 73 and US 30 in April and judging from GSV, it looks very similar to NJ 17. But NJ 38 is shown in yellow, while NJ 17 is orange! I'm starting to doubt there's any consistency with this...

I thought NJ 38 was a cool type of road you wouldn't see in Ontario. The speed limit was a good 50 mph (80 km/h), but you still have convenient accesses to businesses. It seemed to work okay. I also thought the cloverleafs on these "suburban arterials" were pretty cool  :)

Perhaps Orange on google maps indicates some form of controlled access, (indeed a RIRO is not controlled access) as NS 104 between Antigonish and New Glasgow, which is a super 2 is shown as an orange route.

NL 75, if you guys ever have to chance to drive it, is an extremely poorly designed Super 2 that's not even fully controlled access, what's worse is that this road opened in the early 20-aughts. NL 75 should definitely not be orange on the map.

I'm surprised NL 75 is orange, since there are at-grade intersections. How can that be orange, but not the RIRO sections of Hwy 11? :confused:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: tdindy88 on July 20, 2016, 07:29:31 PM
I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 20, 2016, 07:49:51 PM
I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?

Firstly, only Ontario has 400 series highways. :D

The term "downloading" was a term I believe that was coined by the media which referred to passing the buck on maintenance on one issue to a lower level of government. I believe in the early 90s, the federal government did a fair amount of downloading of stuff they used to take care of to the provinces, this was done for much of the same reason why the Harris government in Ontario did downloading to the municipalities, to try to create a surplus. Similarly, the opposite, if the Gardiner were to become the part of the QEW (which will never happen) would be called "uploading".

I've heard that story about the 400 series highways as well, but I'm not sure if there's any truth to it.

I could be wrong about this, but the reason why the freeway segments of say 115, or 11 don't have 400 series numbers is because they are isolated from the rest of the network. Perhaps if 35/115 was a freeway for it's whole length then it may have a 400 series number as it wouldn't be isolated from the 401.

Hwy 417 until the late 90s was isolated from the 401, I understand that, but considering how it continues on as another freeway in Quebec was probably why it got a 400 series number and not simply signed as 17.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 20, 2016, 08:24:12 PM
I just noticed on Google Maps, 35/115 is shown in orange as a freeway. I'm pretty sure this used to be shown in yellow as a regular highway. I guess Google has changed their standards for when to use orange? I think this is a good call; even though it's not a full freeway, it's still clearly better than an undivided highway.

Google marks roads in orange if they're expressway or freeway, meaning there can be some at-grade intersections. Most crossings on 35/115 are RIRO (like ON 11) and Google counts that as expressway. Here in Winnipeg, the road community chuckled when the western part of the Perimeter (MB 101) was marked orange not too long ago, and that has "RIRO" crossings (quotations because they are basically at-grades with the median blocked off and a one-way sign posted) and exit numbers.

I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?

That could be a plausible explanation. There's this:  https://news.google.ca/newspapers?id=b74tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xpgFAAAAIBAJ&dq=mcqueston+highway&pg=3117,2124256&hl=en

Either way, Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia all have their freeway systems (the 400 series, Autoroutes, and 100 series respectively).

Was it the 1998 downloading that killed these highways that served an independent purpose from the freeways? Or were they just for local traffic and thus were downloaded?

I can get only two highways that were replaced by freeways. Highway 5 by Highway 403, and Highway 48 by Highway 404, up until Sutton. So it seems that they all served an independent purpose and were unfortunately killed due to the government being in debt.

I believe most of the downloading (I'm not a fan of that term as well) was due to roads being more for local jurisdictions. I'm honestly not really aware of the history of it (and I was too young to remember it myself) so I can't really confirm for any other cases.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: webfil on July 20, 2016, 08:45:20 PM
I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?

Firstly, only Ontario has 400 series highways. :D

British Columbia had its own between 1964 and 1973.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 20, 2016, 08:50:24 PM
I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?

That could be a plausible explanation. There's this:  https://news.google.ca/newspapers?id=b74tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xpgFAAAAIBAJ&dq=mcqueston+highway&pg=3117,2124256&hl=en

Either way, Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia all have their freeway systems (the 400 series, Autoroutes, and 100 series respectively).

To semi-quote the great late Jack Albertson who played the Grandpa Joe in Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory:

If Highway 105 is a freeway, then I'm a vermicious knid


The 100 series roads are definitely not all freeways, hell not even controlled access super 2s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 20, 2016, 09:34:42 PM
I do have a question for those in Ontario or familiar with the highways. First of all, as someone from Indiana I can too attest to some of the madness with "downloading" highways as we have that going for us as well, it's just called decommissioning or something like that. So anyway, I was told by my father one time when he used to visit Canada that a friend there told him that the reason the 400-series highways begin with the number 4 was because they were 4-lane highways (at the time anyway.) Is there any truth to this or was 4 just a randomly selected number to begin the new freeway designations?

That could be a plausible explanation. There's this:  https://news.google.ca/newspapers?id=b74tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xpgFAAAAIBAJ&dq=mcqueston+highway&pg=3117,2124256&hl=en

Either way, Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia all have their freeway systems (the 400 series, Autoroutes, and 100 series respectively).

To semi-quote the great late Jack Albertson who played the Grandpa Joe in Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory:

If Highway 105 is a freeway, then I'm a vermicious knid


The 100 series roads are definitely not all freeways, hell not even controlled access super 2s.

Definitely agree. The 400 series was likely chosen because that number was well above the highest-numbered standard route (ironically, Highway 105 at the time 400 was designated).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on July 20, 2016, 09:36:25 PM
NJ 17 is a similar road to 35/115 in Greater New York, albeit it is set in a heavy suburban area, I was on it once when the megabus I once took to NYC used NJ 17 from the Thruway to reach the Lincoln Tunnel. As for the megabus....never again! I don't care how cheap it is.

I took NJ 38 between NJ 73 and US 30 in April and judging from GSV, it looks very similar to NJ 17. But NJ 38 is shown in yellow, while NJ 17 is orange! I'm starting to doubt there's any consistency with this...

I thought NJ 38 was a cool type of road you wouldn't see in Ontario. The speed limit was a good 50 mph (80 km/h), but you still have convenient accesses to businesses. It seemed to work okay. I also thought the cloverleafs on these "suburban arterials" were pretty cool  :)

Perhaps Orange on google maps indicates some form of controlled access, (indeed a RIRO is not controlled access) as NS 104 between Antigonish and New Glasgow, which is a super 2 is shown as an orange route.

NL 75, if you guys ever have to chance to drive it, is an extremely poorly designed Super 2 that's not even fully controlled access, what's worse is that this road opened in the early 20-aughts. NL 75 should definitely not be orange on the map.

I'm surprised NL 75 is orange, since there are at-grade intersections. How can that be orange, but not the RIRO sections of Hwy 11? :confused:

Orange should be reserved for freeways, but they make errors. NJ 17 has businesses and driveways, but no traffic lights. Maybe that's why it's orange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 20, 2016, 09:50:07 PM
NJ 17 is a similar road to 35/115 in Greater New York, albeit it is set in a heavy suburban area, I was on it once when the megabus I once took to NYC used NJ 17 from the Thruway to reach the Lincoln Tunnel. As for the megabus....never again! I don't care how cheap it is.

I took NJ 38 between NJ 73 and US 30 in April and judging from GSV, it looks very similar to NJ 17. But NJ 38 is shown in yellow, while NJ 17 is orange! I'm starting to doubt there's any consistency with this...

I thought NJ 38 was a cool type of road you wouldn't see in Ontario. The speed limit was a good 50 mph (80 km/h), but you still have convenient accesses to businesses. It seemed to work okay. I also thought the cloverleafs on these "suburban arterials" were pretty cool  :)

Perhaps Orange on google maps indicates some form of controlled access, (indeed a RIRO is not controlled access) as NS 104 between Antigonish and New Glasgow, which is a super 2 is shown as an orange route.

NL 75, if you guys ever have to chance to drive it, is an extremely poorly designed Super 2 that's not even fully controlled access, what's worse is that this road opened in the early 20-aughts. NL 75 should definitely not be orange on the map.

I'm surprised NL 75 is orange, since there are at-grade intersections. How can that be orange, but not the RIRO sections of Hwy 11? :confused:

Orange should be reserved for freeways, but they make errors. NJ 17 has businesses and driveways, but no traffic lights. Maybe that's why it's orange.

The Taconic is orange north of the Sprain as well and that still has a bunch of cross streets in northern Dutchess and Columbia.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 21, 2016, 08:08:27 AM
When 500,000 people live in the municipality of Clarington, I think Hwy 418 will make more sense.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2016, 10:19:12 AM
When 500,000 people live in the municipality of Clarington, I think Hwy 418 will make more sense.

I agree. With the rate at which the GTA is growing, that won't take very long and everything will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on July 21, 2016, 01:16:58 PM
When 500,000 people live in the municipality of Clarington, I think Hwy 418 will make more sense.

I agree. With the rate at which the GTA is growing, that won't take very long and everything will be appreciated.

Which makes me wonder, did MTO had made some provisions for possible northern extensions of Hwy-412 and Hwy-418 north of Hwy-407"&
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 21, 2016, 03:17:04 PM
When 500,000 people live in the municipality of Clarington, I think Hwy 418 will make more sense.

Half a million in Clarington? Really, are you suggesting that Clarington has a population similar to Brampton?

Unless you meant to say half a million people live in Durham Region.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 21, 2016, 03:29:02 PM
I tend not to be a particularly literal person, but yes, Clarington has a large supply of develop-able land, of which a lot of it will be more affordable than in a lot of other areas within the GTA, so I expect the population to increase by hundreds of thousands of people in the next 30-50 years.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2016, 04:21:20 PM
I tend not to be a particularly literal person, but yes, Clarington has a large supply of develop-able land, of which a lot of it will be more affordable than in a lot of other areas within the GTA, so I expect the population to increase by hundreds of thousands of people in the next 30-50 years.

It's around 85,000 already, having increased by nearly 9% between 2006 and 2011. It's only going to get higher and it's mostly farmland still. I think 500,000 or higher is very realistic.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 04:45:11 PM
Sorry to drift off-topic here, but I found an interesting photo dating from when Canada's Wonderland opened. The map is bare-bones, but I tried.

From blogto.com
(http://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/05/2015522-CanadasWonderland_Flyer_1981_3.jpg)

Link to the story (if you want to read it)
http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2015/05/the_birth_of_canadas_wonderland_in_the_1980s/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 21, 2016, 06:01:03 PM
Which makes me wonder, did MTO had made some provisions for possible northern extensions of Hwy-412 and Hwy-418 north of Hwy-407"&

Neither highway has been designed with a northern extension in mind.  That said, if there was one day a desire to extend either highway northerly, there really isn't anything built that precludes that from happening either.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 21, 2016, 08:31:20 PM
I've uploaded some photos of the 407 extension that I have taken over the past few weeks since the highway opened:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_105_east_WB_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_105-5_east_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_106_east_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_109_east_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_110_east_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_110_east_WB_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_111_west_WB_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_113_west_3level_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_112-5_west_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_116_west_c_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_119_west_EB_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_122_east_Jun16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_125-5_west_Jul16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_dv_126-5_east_Jun16.jpg)

The entire set of images can be found on my website here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/Hwy407_p5_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 09:14:10 PM
About the distance signs, doesn't the GTA have a lot of visitors from the US? How come the distance signs aren't in miles? Also, the distances translate weirdly. 3.1 km is nearly two miles, but it's actually 1.92 miles. Shouldn't it be 3.2 or 3.3 km?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 21, 2016, 09:34:34 PM
I tend not to be a particularly literal person, but yes, Clarington has a large supply of develop-able land, of which a lot of it will be more affordable than in a lot of other areas within the GTA, so I expect the population to increase by hundreds of thousands of people in the next 30-50 years.

It's around 85,000 already, having increased by nearly 9% between 2006 and 2011. It's only going to get higher and it's mostly farmland still. I think 500,000 or higher is very realistic.

It's crazy how fast Brampton has grown in my lifetime. My family moved to Brampton around the time I was born (1995), and the population was about 270 000* (https://www.peelregion.ca/planning/pdc/data/census/population-1971-2006.htm). This year, the population estimate is over 600 000! (http://www.brampton.ca/EN/Business/edo/business-knowledge/Pages/Brampton-At-a-Glance.aspx)

I've uploaded some photos of the 407 extension that I have taken over the past few weeks since the highway opened:

Thanks for the photos as always. :) It's nice to see the signage heading EB, since I've on travelled it WB so far.

About the distance signs, doesn't the GTA have a lot of visitors from the US? How come the distance signs aren't in miles? Also, the distances translate weirdly. 3.1 km is nearly two miles, but it's actually 1.92 miles. Shouldn't it be 3.2 or 3.3 km?

It would be a lot of work to put distances in both km and miles. And by this logic, since lots of Canadians, Europeans, etc visit the U.S., shouldn't all U.S. signs have km too? Canada switched over to metric in the '70's, and we don't plan on switching back :colorful:



Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Mapmikey on July 21, 2016, 09:58:51 PM


https://goo.gl/maps/cLca2S9erSL2

That one is at least 30 years old. Look at the 1's without the serif.

Here is another right off Yonge St that is not nearly that old but this is no longer Hwy 9...

https://goo.gl/maps/HE4WaSY74C32

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 21, 2016, 10:01:03 PM
About the distance signs, doesn't the GTA have a lot of visitors from the US? How come the distance signs aren't in miles? Also, the distances translate weirdly. 3.1 km is nearly two miles, but it's actually 1.92 miles. Shouldn't it be 3.2 or 3.3 km?

It would be a lot of work to put distances in both km and miles. And by this logic, since lots of Canadians, Europeans, etc visit the U.S., shouldn't all U.S. signs have km too? Canada switched over to metric in the '70's, and we don't plan on switching back :colorful:

At this point, only 2 major countries do not use metric distance. The US should have switched in the 70s, but that never happened, of course. You get used to metric distance pretty quickly and the speed limits translate pretty nicely (80 km/h = 50 mph, 100 is 60).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 10:30:03 PM
About the distance signs, doesn't the GTA have a lot of visitors from the US? How come the distance signs aren't in miles? Also, the distances translate weirdly. 3.1 km is nearly two miles, but it's actually 1.92 miles. Shouldn't it be 3.2 or 3.3 km?

It would be a lot of work to put distances in both km and miles. And by this logic, since lots of Canadians, Europeans, etc visit the U.S., shouldn't all U.S. signs have km too? Canada switched over to metric in the '70's, and we don't plan on switching back :colorful:

At this point, only 2 major countries do not use metric distance. The US should have switched in the 70s, but that never happened, of course. You get used to metric distance pretty quickly and the speed limits translate pretty nicely (80 km/h = 50 mph, 100 is 60).
I'll be honest, I have never been exposed to metric distance. I went to The Netherlands back in 2005, but I was just a year old and never thought about distances. My parents never taught me despite living in a country using metric (the Philippines post US territory). I've lived in the US my entire life too.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 22, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quite a pile of things, so quickly:

1. Downloading was indeed a media/spin thing used to describe the transfer of services between the province and municipalities in the 1990s. Wasn't just highways, a number of other services changed hands as well.

2. The rationale was basically roads that served local traffic. Not necessarily routes that were bypassed by freeways, but roads on which traffic was not provincially significant.

For the most part that was accomplished well (certainly a handful of exceptions going both ways), and from a service delivery standpoint it really makes more sense for all involved.

Yes, there are a lot of old signs out there. Mostly on sections of road that were not transferred.

I have the same questions too. Ontario already has the concept of Connecting Links, where a provincially highway is signed as a highway, but is actually locally maintained. Why didn't they make more of these Connecting Links instead of mass downloading?

Because there are an awful lot of legal ramifications to Connecting Links, most of which are not good for either MTO or the municipality. It really creates a lot of headaches for both with minimal benefit. Municipalities have far more flexibility without CLs on their roads.

Victoria St in Kitchener is a good example of a well-done Connecting Link.

That's not a Connecting Link.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 22, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Quite a pile of things, so quickly:

1. Downloading was indeed a media/spin thing used to describe the transfer of services between the province and municipalities in the 1990s. Wasn't just highways, a number of other services changed hands as well.

2. The rationale was basically roads that served local traffic. Not necessarily routes that were bypassed by freeways, but roads on which traffic was not provincially significant.

For the most part that was accomplished well (certainly a handful of exceptions going both ways), and from a service delivery standpoint it really makes more sense for all involved.

Yes, there are a lot of old signs out there. Mostly on sections of road that were not transferred.

I have the same questions too. Ontario already has the concept of Connecting Links, where a provincially highway is signed as a highway, but is actually locally maintained. Why didn't they make more of these Connecting Links instead of mass downloading?

Because there are an awful lot of legal ramifications to Connecting Links, most of which are not good for either MTO or the municipality. It really creates a lot of headaches for both with minimal benefit. Municipalities have far more flexibility without CLs on their roads.

Fair enough, I just like think the older system with more provincial highways since I believe it made it easier for navigating. But I can understand your reasoning.

Victoria St in Kitchener is a good example of a well-done Connecting Link.

That's not a Connecting Link.

Hmmm, I thought someone on here said it was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of Connecting Links? Victoria St has Hwy 7 and RR 55 shields side by side, so I thought this would equate to a Connecting Link. I figured this means the Region maintains the road, but signs it as a provincial highway. How is that different from a Connecting Link?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on July 22, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
I'm curious now too about Connecting Links.  In NY, municipally maintained sections of touring routes don't entail any special obligation on either NYSDOT (beyond sending traffic count and pavement condition data to FHWA) or the municipality since the shield doesn't denote any legal status.  It's simply a sign for motorist navigation.  Couldn't Ontario have created a similar system so that routes wouldn't get broken up in odd ways?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 22, 2016, 05:20:57 PM

Hmmm, I thought someone on here said it was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of Connecting Links? Victoria St has Hwy 7 and RR 55 shields side by side, so I thought this would equate to a Connecting Link. I figured this means the Region maintains the road, but signs it as a provincial highway. How is that different from a Connecting Link?

A Connecting Link is a legal agreement between the municipality and the Province. The road is designated as a continuation of the King's Highway, and while the municipality owns the roadway, many operations on it are subject to MTO review and approval. The upside of that is that expenses the municipality incurs along the designated CL receive provincial funding. In the case of Victoria Street, no such agreement is in place.

I'm curious now too about Connecting Links.  In NY, municipally maintained sections of touring routes don't entail any special obligation on either NYSDOT (beyond sending traffic count and pavement condition data to FHWA) or the municipality since the shield doesn't denote any legal status. It's simply a sign for motorist navigation.  Couldn't Ontario have created a similar system so that routes wouldn't get broken up in odd ways?

Was not any desire to do so, as since they are local roads (the reason why they were transferred in the first place), it made far more sense to be incorporated into the local roads network.
And as has been discussed in the same thread before (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=59.msg2059810#msg2059810), the actual impact of renumbering has been minimal, as almost all of the sections of highway either a) retained their number or b) had their numbering changed to better reflect the local context.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on July 22, 2016, 07:31:10 PM
I agree with Chris. Big examples of this are Highways 3 and 7. All sections of 3 that were downloaded are CR/RR 3, while those of 7 are either numbered 7 or something with 7 at the end. Heck, parts of old Highway 7 have the road actually named "Highway 7" to this day.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 22, 2016, 07:36:07 PM

Hmmm, I thought someone on here said it was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of Connecting Links? Victoria St has Hwy 7 and RR 55 shields side by side, so I thought this would equate to a Connecting Link. I figured this means the Region maintains the road, but signs it as a provincial highway. How is that different from a Connecting Link?

A Connecting Link is a legal agreement between the municipality and the Province. The road is designated as a continuation of the King's Highway, and while the municipality owns the roadway, many operations on it are subject to MTO review and approval. The upside of that is that expenses the municipality incurs along the designated CL receive provincial funding. In the case of Victoria Street, no such agreement is in place.

Thank you for the explanation! Wikipedia says it's not a CL either, and I believe you. But I'm still wondering who maintains Victoria St, since it has both a Hwy designation and a RR designation?

I'm curious now too about Connecting Links.  In NY, municipally maintained sections of touring routes don't entail any special obligation on either NYSDOT (beyond sending traffic count and pavement condition data to FHWA) or the municipality since the shield doesn't denote any legal status. It's simply a sign for motorist navigation.  Couldn't Ontario have created a similar system so that routes wouldn't get broken up in odd ways?

Was not any desire to do so, as since they are local roads (the reason why they were transferred in the first place), it made far more sense to be incorporated into the local roads network.
And as has been discussed in the same thread before (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=59.msg2059810#msg2059810), the actual impact of renumbering has been minimal, as almost all of the sections of highway either a) retained their number or b) had their numbering changed to better reflect the local context.

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't read that far back in this thread. I can respect the MTO's decision to download the highways, but I still personally prefer a system like NY state where they have a nice cohesive state highway network.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 22, 2016, 08:34:59 PM
About the distance signs, doesn't the GTA have a lot of visitors from the US? How come the distance signs aren't in miles? Also, the distances translate weirdly. 3.1 km is nearly two miles, but it's actually 1.92 miles. Shouldn't it be 3.2 or 3.3 km?

Just go in a time machine back to 1975. But then you wouldn't see many of the newer freeways in Toronto now, would you?  :-D

The number of worldwide (metric) combined visitors to the US far exceeds the amount of US visitors to Canada I would think (I didn't look up the numbers). Distances are just rounded. I've seen 70 mi (speed limit signs) be converted to 110 or 115 (but usually 110 because metric speed limits are always on the ten's ex: 10,50,100 etc).

But to humour you, here's a dual metric, imperial distance sign (far away from Ontario, I've never seen one there): https://goo.gl/maps/UPnj7KJMJ7t

If you're interested about Canada's switch look here: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5659.msg123406#msg123406

shouldn't all U.S. signs have km too?

There are a few, most of them near the Canadian and Mexican borders (I-5 in San Diego, I-87 near Quebec etc).

I remember reading a blog from a German couple travelling to southern Arizona. They were so relieved when they arrived on I-19  :-D
https://goo.gl/maps/yYRyD9FAoKU2 - This pair (along with the ones heading southbound) could be the only Clearview metric signs in the US.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 22, 2016, 09:03:03 PM
But to humour you, here's a dual metric, imperial distance sign (far away from Ontario, I've never seen one there): https://goo.gl/maps/UPnj7KJMJ7t

Cool! I'm surprised how far away it is from the US border too. But reading the thread you posted, it sounds like Nova Scotia has the most pre-metric relics and imperial signage.

shouldn't all U.S. signs have km too?

There are a few, most of them near the Canadian and Mexican borders (I-5 in San Diego, I-87 near Quebec etc).

I remember reading a blog from a German couple travelling to southern Arizona. They were so relieved when they arrived on I-19  :-D
https://goo.gl/maps/yYRyD9FAoKU2 - This pair (along with the ones heading southbound) could be the only Clearview metric signs in the US.

I've read about I-19, too bad they plan on replacing the signs with imperial units during various construction projects. By the time I make it to Arizona, it might be too late :-/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 22, 2016, 09:14:56 PM
Thankfully there aren't many (if any) serious low bridge situations on the 400 series highways. But on bridges where the clearance is close, I think heights in both meters and feet/inches should be posted.

Indeed, the city of Toronto does in fact do this, you can metric ate all you want but a trailer, that is a trailer that is a full size 53' trailer that is part of a tractor trailer is 13' 6". Convert that t metric and you get 4.1148m.

So if a sign says 4.1m, will I hit that bridge....the spread of 4.05m to 4.14m covers FOUR WHOLE INCHES.

That's not to say, most areas with height clearances ran by the private sector, think drive thrus or private parking garages in most cases will show the feet/inches measurement as the predominant measurement. Some Canadian corporations like Scotiabank have drive thru ATMs where the height clearance is shown in feet/inches ONLY. It's the public sector where we see most of the metric height clearances.

I could go on and on about how Canada isn't a metric country, and even I'm not a fan of the system despite being taught in school in metric only. Incidentally, the Ontario curriculum as of 2006 has reintroduced imperial measurements to be taught alongside metric units.

Even so, just because the rest of the world does something is a very poor argument on why something should be done. Somewhat road related, every other country uses a different speed limit sign than those seen in the US and Canada, should we switch and spend boatloads of money because the rest of the world does something.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 22, 2016, 10:10:39 PM
Some interesting oddities I found in the GTA:

For some reason Allen Road is a freeway near the 401. Why is this?

How come the two local-express sections in Mississauga and Toronto don't connect? Are there plans to connect these sections in the future? The websites I've checked don't mention reasons why these sections don't connect.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 22, 2016, 10:16:12 PM
Some interesting oddities I found in the GTA:

For some reason Allen Road is a freeway near the 401. Why is this?

How come the two local-express sections in Mississauga and Toronto don't connect? Are there plans to connect these sections in the future? The websites I've checked don't mention reasons why these sections don't connect.


I don't know much about Allen Road, though I've always thought that was strange too :)

But I believe the collectors-express sections aren't connected because there isn't any room to expand within the given space of the complex 401/427 interchange. I guess it wasn't designed with enough room from the get-go? It's certainly a bad spot for traffic! :/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 22, 2016, 10:42:26 PM
Gardiner East draft report/appendix

Lots of reading material and neat pics/diagrams/stats

http://www.gardinereast.ca/participate-online




For some reason Allen Road is a freeway near the 401. Why is this?


Allen Road was the only built part of the Spadina Expressway. More info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Road#Spadina_Expressway
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 22, 2016, 10:46:17 PM
Some interesting oddities I found in the GTA:

For some reason Allen Road is a freeway near the 401. Why is this?

How come the two local-express sections in Mississauga and Toronto don't connect? Are there plans to connect these sections in the future? The websites I've checked don't mention reasons why these sections don't connect.


I don't know much about Allen Road, though I've always thought that was strange too :)

But I believe the collectors-express sections aren't connected because there isn't any room to expand within the given space of the complex 401/427 interchange. I guess it wasn't designed with enough room from the get-go? It's certainly a bad spot for traffic! :/

You don't? In a nut shell, the short answer is that the Allen was supposed to be a freeway that went to Spadina/Bloor, this was to be called the Spadina Expressway. Protests got it stopped beyond Eglinton. The subway line that was planned with the freeway was built the whole way, hence why this "leg" of the subway line was called the "Spadina Line".
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 22, 2016, 11:18:30 PM
Some interesting oddities I found in the GTA:

For some reason Allen Road is a freeway near the 401. Why is this?

How come the two local-express sections in Mississauga and Toronto don't connect? Are there plans to connect these sections in the future? The websites I've checked don't mention reasons why these sections don't connect.


I don't know much about Allen Road, though I've always thought that was strange too :)

But I believe the collectors-express sections aren't connected because there isn't any room to expand within the given space of the complex 401/427 interchange. I guess it wasn't designed with enough room from the get-go? It's certainly a bad spot for traffic! :/

You don't? In a nut shell, the short answer is that the Allen was supposed to be a freeway that went to Spadina/Bloor, this was to be called the Spadina Expressway. Protests got it stopped beyond Eglinton. The subway line that was planned with the freeway was built the whole way, hence why this "leg" of the subway line was called the "Spadina Line".

Oh yeah, I've heard of the Spadina Expressway but it's been I while since I've read up on it. I guess I should have made that connection :pan:

I find it funny that they call the freeway portion Allen Road. I know it's continuous with the surface-road called Allen Road, but it's still a misleading name :)

It reminds of Highbury Avenue in London (Ontario, not England :)). That one surprised me the first time I went on it!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 23, 2016, 12:13:45 PM
Another oddball I found is the 400 south of the 401. I read that 400 was meant to extend south to the QEW, now the Gardiner Expy., but was later cancelled due to opposition. Was the stub south of the 401 a remnant of that project?

EDIT: I found something that suspiciously looks like another remnant: this wide median (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7054941,-79.4946249,3a,57.3y,267.81h,86.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DcQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.631088%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) not far from the end of Highway 400.

So I'm thinking the plan was to route it down Black Creek Drive, as if you pan to the left it looks as if it was prepared for a freeway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 23, 2016, 12:37:47 PM
Another oddball I found is the 400 south of the 401. I read that 400 was meant to extend south to the QEW, now the Gardiner Expy., but was later cancelled due to opposition. Was the stub south of the 401 a remnant of that project?

EDIT: I found something that suspiciously looks like another remnant: this wide median (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7054941,-79.4946249,3a,57.3y,267.81h,86.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DcQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.631088%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) not far from the end of Highway 400.

So I'm thinking the plan was to route it down Black Creek Drive, as if you pan to the left it looks as if it was prepared for a freeway.

To answer your question: There were plans to extend the 400 to the DVP (Don Valley Pkwy) or the Gardiner to the south. It, of course, never got built.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Map_of_Toronto_Expwys.gif)

There was quite a bit (still a lot) of NIMBYism in the 60's and 70's that prevented further freeway building. If it were me, I would have done the extension of the Gardiner east to the 401 as an alternate way across the city.

There is a whole page about cancelled Toronto highways on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancelled_expressways_in_Toronto
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 23, 2016, 01:24:26 PM
Another oddball I found is the 400 south of the 401. I read that 400 was meant to extend south to the QEW, now the Gardiner Expy., but was later cancelled due to opposition. Was the stub south of the 401 a remnant of that project?

EDIT: I found something that suspiciously looks like another remnant: this wide median (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7054941,-79.4946249,3a,57.3y,267.81h,86.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DcQXR4MnHzIDJ-tlPGXkjIw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.631088%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) not far from the end of Highway 400.

So I'm thinking the plan was to route it down Black Creek Drive, as if you pan to the left it looks as if it was prepared for a freeway.

To answer your question: There were plans to extend the 400 to the DVP (Don Valley Pkwy) or the Gardiner to the south. It, of course, never got built.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Map_of_Toronto_Expwys.gif)

There was quite a bit (still a lot) of NIMBYism in the 60's and 70's that prevented further freeway building. If it were me, I would have done the extension of the Gardiner east to the 401 as an alternate way across the city.

There is a whole page about cancelled Toronto highways on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancelled_expressways_in_Toronto
Interesting. Do stubs of these plans exist? I'm planning to roadgeek around the GTA and see if I can't find remnants of said projects (this is next summer's roadtrip, if you can't tell from sporadic activity from me in this thread (wow I think I'm smarter than the previous kid who was on here, and he's older than me! sorry)).

There's some interesting expressways too. Not sure if Highway 2A still exists, but it seems to be interesting.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 24, 2016, 01:11:23 AM
Not sure (remember, this was all stuff that was decided before any of us commenting on this thread were born). I did find this though:

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/scarborough-expressway.html

https://goo.gl/maps/6etjx6Shbv12 - The old demolished part of the Gardiner. Pillars were left up in some places to remind people of what was once here.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 24, 2016, 02:32:29 AM
If anyone was wondering: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/69-highway-construction-1.3681683

A new section of twinned (and freeway) ON 69 (future ON 400) should be open by 1 August.  https://goo.gl/maps/PmoBYWTesYD2

Now it will only be about 80 km from freeway end to the current ON 400 northern terminus. I really doubt they'll have that done by 2021, but we shall see.  :D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 24, 2016, 10:37:29 AM
Interesting. Do stubs of these plans exist? I'm planning to roadgeek around the GTA and see if I can't find remnants of said projects (this is next summer's roadtrip, if you can't tell from sporadic activity from me in this thread (wow I think I'm smarter than the previous kid who was on here, and he's older than me! sorry)).

There's some interesting expressways too. Not sure if Highway 2A still exists, but it seems to be interesting.

Yes, there are bits and pieces of the shelved Toronto expressways that were indeed built.

Allen Road (Spadina Expressway)

Obviously this one was the most controversial one that saw any construction. Although I have never found any of the original plans, something tells me that if the Allen was built all the way south to Bloor, that the subway line which exists would have been at grade in the median for the entire length.

I may have gotten ahead of myself, but the Allen has the Spadina subway line running in the center median.

The Allen ends SB at Eglinton, and there is always a nasty backup at the end no matter what time of day it is. Indeed I will usually never ever take the Allen SB for any reason unless if I'm going to use the 401. Both the Lawrence and Eglinton exits face nasty backups by a poorly timed traffic signal.

Black Creek Drive (Highway 400 Extension)

I'm not exactly sure how the 400 looked south of the 401 prior to 1982 (when Black Creek Drive was opened) but I believe that the 400 had a forced exit at Jane Street. Black Creek Drive is an expressway with traffic lights, and yes it is that stupid. Incidentally, the entire Black Creek Drive could be converted to freeway if they wanted to, but I wouldn't count on that happening ever.

I have on occasion taken Black Creek Drive NB in PM Rush while doing Uber, and those intersections on Black Creek Drive are particularly nasty in how traffic backs up on Black Creek Drive.

Highway 2A (Scarborough Expressway)

Highway 2A is indeed known as Kingston Road in this stretch. This was indeed supposed to be part of the cancelled Scarborough Expressway.

Crosstown Expressway

While nothing really was built of this freeway. Look at the Bayview/Bloor exit on the DVP, that's a trumpet interchange, this long exit ramp is a connector road that has an interchange with Bayview before meeting Bloor at a T-intersection. Although I can not find any solid plans, it's generally believed that this connector road would have been part of the Crosstown Expressway if it were built.

Richview Expressway

Again while nothing substantial was built with this one. There are ramps from 427SB and 401EB that were obviously designed with the Eglinton exit on either road intended to be a freeway. Indeed, there is a BGS on this Eglinton Avenue "ramp" that reads (Martin Grove Road 1km)

Until very recently, maybe around 2014 or so. The land immediately north of Eglinton Avenue between Martin Grove and Royal York was nothing. This empty space was land bought for the highway. Around 2014 this land was finally sold off.




The only portion of freeway that was eliminated in Toronto was the Gardiner east of the DVP which originally ran to Leslie Street. I can't remember this actual portion of roadway existing, it was knocked down in 1999. I was a suburban kid, and I rarely went downtown in my younger days.

I don't really want to talk about the politics of all these expressway, because it will make my blood boil. Indeed, Toronto and the GTA face a massive transportation crisis in the future if growing trends with immigration continue. I can start a new topic on here if you'd like to discuss it. Not just expressways, but look at how much rapid transit was built since the cancellation of Spadina (1971). You'll find it's a game of political football full of nasty egos.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on July 24, 2016, 11:27:54 AM
The Toronto area has some of the worst commute times in North America, and since it is planned to continue growing, things will just get worse without massive expansions or new projects.

This is why I want Toronto to host the Olympics one day. It may give Toronto the infrastructure it needs to support this growth through projects that wouldn't otherwise be greeenlit.

The current provincial government seems to be very transit-focused to try and relieve this congestion. Some projects are underway, others are in the planning stages.
-Roadwise, there really isn't much going on within the developed area, and much of Toronto's growth is occurring within already developed areas.

I can only see a small handful of road projects being completed in a pipe dream. They are:
-Convert Black Creek Drive to a freeway. Extend it parallel to the rail line as a tolled/HOT only highway that cold be just 2-4 lanes wide. It would mimic a narrow Japanese expressway design.
-Build a freeway through the Gatineau Power corridor between the DVP and 401.
-When it comes time to rehabilitate or replace the structures at 401/427, squeeze some room to allow a couple collector lanes to go through the interchange and reconfigure the stretch of 401 between 427 and 409 to link the systems together.
-Build more auxiliary lanes between interchanges. Should help keep short distance traffic going only 1 exit down from messing with highway flow.
-Convert the leftmost lane of 401 to HOV/HOT throughout the entire Toronto area. This will probably not do much to relive congestion, but it will help move more people per hour on the highway.
-Convert leftmost lane on Gardiner/DVP to HOV/HOT only as well.
-Buy back 407 ETR, take out tolls. (Yeah right!)

Another alternative is to direct the growth Toronto receives to other cities in the province. Ontario had a program in the past to help convince new immigrants to look at cities other than Toronto and small towns, but funding has been cut due to budgetary issues. Cities like Windsor, London, Kingston, Sudbury, etc outside of the Greater Golden Horseshoe are better suited to growth and some even require it to keep populations stable (cities like Chatham and Windsor are declining in population).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 25, 2016, 12:30:38 PM
I found this article from July 14th:
http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/environment-and-safety/ontario-build-ev-charging-stations-along-major-highways-attractions-172033/ (http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/environment-and-safety/ontario-build-ev-charging-stations-along-major-highways-attractions-172033/)

Quote
Ontario is building nearly 500 electric vehicle charging stations across the province with hopes they will encourage more residents to use electric vehicles.
The provincial government says the network of public stations will help address “range anxiety” among electric car drivers who may be concerned about the distance their vehicles can travel compared to traditional vehicles.

The full network of stations will allow electric vehicles to travel from Windsor, Ont., to Ottawa, or from Toronto to North Bay, Ont., as well as in and around major urban centres.

The stations—which will be placed at more than 250 locations including highways, workplaces and public spaces—are all expected to be in service by the end of March next year.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 25, 2016, 03:18:27 PM
Black Creek Drive (Highway 400 Extension)
I'm not exactly sure how the 400 looked south of the 401 prior to 1982 (when Black Creek Drive was opened) but I believe that the 400 had a forced exit at Jane Street.

Yes.

Black Creek Drive is an expressway with traffic lights, and yes it is that stupid.

Given the constraints there, it's not stupid at all.

Incidentally, the entire Black Creek Drive could be converted to freeway if they wanted to, but I wouldn't count on that happening ever.

Well, technically it could, but that would be really, really, unwise. It would be rather disruptive to the area, while at the same time funneling traffic onto an even more constrained Weston Road. That would be spending piles of money to create a bigger problem somewhere else.

I have on occasion taken Black Creek Drive NB in PM Rush while doing Uber, and those intersections on Black Creek Drive are particularly nasty in how traffic backs up on Black Creek Drive.

Given the volumes, they're pretty typical for an arterial. Not really noteworthy backups at them.

Highway 2A (Scarborough Expressway)
Highway 2A is indeed known as Kingston Road in this stretch. This was indeed supposed to be part of the cancelled Scarborough Expressway.

Highway 2A is known as Highway 2A in this stretch. Kingston Road is an arterial road that runs parallel to it.


The Toronto area has some of the worst commute times in North America, and since it is planned to continue growing, things will just get worse without massive expansions or new projects.

Luckily, the main issues with traffic congestion are in the suburban areas. DVP aside, traffic actually moves well in the 416.

The current provincial government seems to be very transit-focused to try and relieve this congestion. Some projects are underway, others are in the planning stages.
-Roadwise, there really isn't much going on within the developed area, and much of Toronto's growth is occurring within already developed areas.

That's because there is not much bang for your buck in expanding road capacity within the 416. As intensification occurs, as does the viability of transit.
Bear in mind, this current government is spending more on roadway capital than any we've had. For al of their many, many, many faults, highway investment is one area in which they've excelled.

I can only see a small handful of road projects being completed in a pipe dream. They are:
-Convert Black Creek Drive to a freeway. Extend it parallel to the rail line as a tolled/HOT only highway that cold be just 2-4 lanes wide. It would mimic a narrow Japanese expressway design.

I realize that it is admittedly a pipe dream, but the concern with that is a) that induces demand right into the already congested urban core b) 401-427-FGG is not a particularly bad route c) a roadway shoehorned in like that would be pretty crappy

-Build a freeway through the Gatineau Power corridor between the DVP and 401.

Demand-wise that would help, as I said, DVP is probably the stickiest spot in the 416. However, intensifying the DVP corridor (adding more lanes either beside or above the existing ones) would provide greater bang for your buck - and not get yet more residents up in arms.

-When it comes time to rehabilitate or replace the structures at 401/427, squeeze some room to allow a couple collector lanes to go through the interchange and reconfigure the stretch of 401 between 427 and 409 to link the systems together.

The time for that work is 2015-16, and that has not been done. That interchange is not so great for throughput EB, though the 409 does help relieve the pressure. As with the DVP, adding lanes above (probably HOT) would make a great deal sense.

-Build more auxiliary lanes between interchanges. Should help keep short distance traffic going only 1 exit down from messing with highway flow.

The issue with that is drainage - adding lanes like that will pretty well require a full rebuild of the collector lanes


One other idea that would help in some of the more outlying areas (400 and 404 especially) - ramp metering. Would really help with cutting down on the turbulence on those roads.

Another alternative is to direct the growth Toronto receives to other cities in the province. Ontario had a program in the past to help convince new immigrants to look at cities other than Toronto and small towns, but funding has been cut due to budgetary issues. Cities like Windsor, London, Kingston, Sudbury, etc outside of the Greater Golden Horseshoe are better suited to growth and some even require it to keep populations stable (cities like Chatham and Windsor are declining in population).

That would help considerably. But the economic power of the GTHA does pull very strongly, so it would be an uphill battle.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on July 25, 2016, 03:29:23 PM
So if the Gardiner formerly extended to Leslie Street, would it have followed Kingston Road to connect with the Scarborough Expressway, or would it have followed the Lake Ontario shoreline to Highway 401? Because Lake Shore Boulevard east of the Don Valley Parkway looks like it was once a freeway, up to Woodbine Avenue.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on July 25, 2016, 04:38:51 PM
You really shouldn't have done that cbeach, but not surprising, you in the government, Do as I say, not as I do. For starters, since you are a public servant, why don't you take transit like the so called masters want us to do, hey you've been brainwashed by them as soon as I seen the phrase "induced demand".

Funny how you want to badmouth the current administration but I'm willing to bet that you voted for that wicked witch.

So what kind of road projects have been done lately that have actually benefited the motorist, although some may have started before the 13 years of hell we have been under, let us see.

2004 - Introduction of HOV Lanes on Hwy 403 and 404 (yup that's right folks, there wasn't an HOV lane before the Liberals got in), as I am a HUGE opponent of HOV lanes, as they actually easily make traffic worse and due absolutely nothing to help truck traffic, it all fits into the green agenda that the fascist regime is obsessed with. I'll get to that later.

ALSO, there was money floating around to create an HOV only ramp from Hwy 404 SB to Hwy 401 WB....it's funny how I was laughed at by you sometime ago for suggesting that an EC Row WB to 401 EB ramp should have been built.

2007 - Extension of Hwy 410 to Mayfield, which in 2009 was further extended to Hwy 10, this project was approved in the Ernie Eves days and was delayed for many years after the Liberals got elected.....indeed the Sandalwood overpass was open to traffic a good 4 years before the 410 came to exist underneath it.

2010 - ALTERATION of long term widening plans introduces HOV lanes to the badly congested Halton Region stretch....need I say more, of course I know you will come out of the woodwork and defend this, just like you adamantly defend the downloaded highways, hey if that's a good decision, why don't you defend the privatization of Hwy 407

2014 - Highway 404 extension....in honesty an extension to nowhere and not a priority whatsoever, a few people have this nice extension to reach Georgina easier....anyone can see that the Highway 427 extension was WAY MORE IMPORTANT, I mean think about it, York Region got tired of the MTO playing games that they decided to create an extension to link to an arterial just so they could ease off the traffic movements at the Hwy 50/Hwy 7 intersection and Hwy 27/Hwy 7 intersection.

2016 - Highway 407 East and Highway 412....this was a good project, but like the original 407, it is a toll. Even worse, the MTO is basically charging the same prices that the 407 ETR charges.....of course they need to, as the public sector is growing while the private sector is shrinking in this province....more taxes have to come from somewhere, or shall I quote what Kathleen says "revenue tools" If you want me to talk about a shrinking private sector, do you want me to mention how extreme costs of doing business in this province caused Heinz to shut the century old plant in Leamington? There are countless of other examples that have closed down in Ontario in recent years.

Let's not mention the ongoing projects, any widening includes HOV lanes now, and don't get me started on the 401 widening in Mississauga, that just angers me to no end.


If you want to talk transit, if we use the cancellation of the Spadina Expressway as a starting point, how much real rapid transit has been built in the city? Yes, Mike Harris may have cancelled the Eglinton Line, but the current version of that said line is vastly inferior, it'd be like converting the DVP into a road like Black Creek Drive.

How much has the outlying region grown since the cancellation of Spadina, by at least 3 folds. This has happened mainly due to immigration and yet the feds always seem to jump away when we try to ask them for money for projects. Do you honestly think the City of Brampton back in 1974 wanted all these immigrants to dramatically change how the city functions? The feds are responsible for the massive growth so they are responsible for this transportation crisis we face.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 25, 2016, 08:37:34 PM
heated discussion about provincial politics... heavily discouraged on this forum but oh well no admins patrol this board

I hate to say it (you'll probably yell at me for this too, but oh well), but Chris is probably right for most of his points.

The 404 was built to handle urban sprawl, and it's not that hard to see why. Look at the satellite over its length and it doesn't take much to identify that Newmarket and Richmond Hill will probably grow out over the next 10-20 years to make the 404 more usable. I agree it's not really needed right now, but part of making an effective transportation corridor is making the infrastructure in advance, not doing it when all the urban sprawl is already there.

About the 407, refer to my point above. Same thing. Regarding tolls, it would have been better if Ontario implemented tolls only on the connector routes (412, and the future 418).

The 427 really should have been extended earlier though, I'd have to agree with you there. I don't know the current alignment of the new road; it would be nice to know though  :)

As for Kingston Rd, confusing signing on the 401 can lead people to believe that 2A is Kingston Rd, when it really isn't.

I would be flabbergasted if any expressways were going to be built within Toronto. It's not going to happen at this stage. Everybody should accept that. The politics and the NIMBYism would never allow it.

Back on topic...

So if the Gardiner formerly extended to Leslie Street, would it have followed Kingston Road to connect with the Scarborough Expressway, or would it have followed the Lake Ontario shoreline to Highway 401? Because Lake Shore Boulevard east of the Don Valley Parkway looks like it was once a freeway, up to Woodbine Avenue.

There were several ideas proposed. Lake Shore Blvd is a wide arterial, it was never a freeway.

There is this:

(http://nebula.wsimg.com/7d0d885884bf45a9418ed97aabe7fa1a?AccessKeyId=5B3D9322BACA253926CC&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)

It basically followed the CNR (Canadian National Railway)

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on July 26, 2016, 10:57:40 AM
You really shouldn't have done that cbeach, but not surprising, you in the government, Do as I say, not as I do. For starters, since you are a public servant, why don't you take transit like the so called masters want us to do, hey you've been brainwashed by them as soon as I seen the phrase "induced demand".

I take transit when it is convenient for me to do so. Which is admittedly rarely. But that's how it works.

I used the term "induced demand" as I know what I'm talking about when it comes to transportation planning. Broken down to its simplest form, it's supply and demand economics - the more a resource is available, the more people will use it. Limiting the supply of a product (in this case, road capacity) regulates its demand.

There certainly are numerous political viewpoints regarding what to do with induced demand (the anti-car brigade of course oppose it, people like me recognize it needs to be managed carefully), but as a function of traffic engineering it does happen.

Funny how you want to badmouth the current administration but I'm willing to bet that you voted for that wicked witch.

As a matter of fact, I did not vote for the Liberal candidate in my riding in the previous election. Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand, nor is it relevant in any discussion.

So what kind of road projects have been done lately that have actually benefited the motorist, although some may have started before the 13 years of hell we have been under, let us see.

2004 - Introduction of HOV Lanes on Hwy 403 and 404 (yup that's right folks, there wasn't an HOV lane before the Liberals got in), as I am a HUGE opponent of HOV lanes, as they actually easily make traffic worse and due absolutely nothing to help truck traffic, it all fits into the green agenda that the fascist regime is obsessed with. I'll get to that later.

HOV lanes have issues (especially GPL to HOV conversion, which I strongly oppose), but the addition of new HOV lanes do result in a net increase in the highway's throughput. And while trucks can't use them they do benefit from the additional overall capacity. But that's why HOV are installed on commuter routes where the proportion of trucks is lower.
A GPL in a high truck percentage also has really crappy lane utilization.

HOV are a tool to use to manage limited resources - both financial and road capacity. It has its applicable uses, and there are places where it does not work. But commuter routes, those are by and large applicable uses.

And as far as the Liberals being responsible for HOV, well, that's the funny thing - HOV studies began in 1994. Under Bob Rae and the NDP. They continued unabated during the Harris-Eves Ontario PC years. In fact, the first contracts, like the Hwy 403 HOV and the Hwy 404 HOV and the tunnel connection to Hwy 401, were issued months before the 2003 election, while the Tories were in power. And construction has continued unabated through the McGuinty-Wynne years.

So, all three parties have supported it. The Tories and Liberals have actually built it. It is not solely a Liberal initiative at all.


ALSO, there was money floating around to create an HOV only ramp from Hwy 404 SB to Hwy 401 WB....it's funny how I was laughed at by you sometime ago for suggesting that an EC Row WB to 401 EB ramp should have been built.

No, I didn't laugh at you for that. I just said that the amount of traffic that would benefit would be minimal, as that movement is almost a U-turn. Based on signal timings at the ECR-Huron Church interchange, building that flyover would have saved maybe one minute for those few drivers at a cost of tens of millions of dollars.

The 404 HOV to 401 WB tunnel cost a fraction of that, and is used by thousands of vehicles per day. And given the congestion at that interchange, saves people a lot more time that a minute or two. Also, the funding situation for the Herb Grey Pkwy is far different than what existed for the 404 tunnel. Not a valid comparison, even taking the fact that they were about a decade apart.

And again, they were that far apart as the HOV project was done by the Tories (and that I admittedly AM laughing about).  :-D

2007 - Extension of Hwy 410 to Mayfield, which in 2009 was further extended to Hwy 10, this project was approved in the Ernie Eves days and was delayed for many years after the Liberals got elected.....indeed the Sandalwood overpass was open to traffic a good 4 years before the 410 came to exist underneath it.

Got delayed for many years? Phase 1 was completed 2004, the Phase 2 contract was issued in 2006. So delayed one year.

(edited - corrected the date)

2010 - ALTERATION of long term widening plans introduces HOV lanes to the badly congested Halton Region stretch....

No, HOV was planned for that all along. That project was initiated in 2002 - well into Ontario's work into HOV.

need I say more, of course I know you will come out of the woodwork and defend this, just like you adamantly defend the downloaded highways, hey if that's a good decision, why don't you defend the privatization of Hwy 407

I defend downloading because from a service delivery standpoint it makes sense. Taking former Highway 50 for example, in what way would it benefit residents, businesses, and other stakeholders along that highway to have the distant and high-level MTO taking care of their road? Especially since it does not serve long distance traffic? Or how does it benefit the province to waste time and money on those local issues, rather than the more local and accessible municipality? Just a drain on resources all around.

Yes, navigational issues could have been handled better. And overall funding could be improved. But it really serves both the province and the residents/businesses/etc. far, far better.


The 407 deal is utterly awful. But again, it, along with downloading and HOV lanes, are Tory initiatives.


2014 - Highway 404 extension....in honesty an extension to nowhere and not a priority whatsoever, a few people have this nice extension to reach Georgina easier....anyone can see that the Highway 427 extension was WAY MORE IMPORTANT, I mean think about it, York Region got tired of the MTO playing games that they decided to create an extension to link to an arterial just so they could ease off the traffic movements at the Hwy 50/Hwy 7 intersection and Hwy 27/Hwy 7 intersection.

Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about. The 404 extension was definitely needed. And it's never a question of one vs another, it's never that simplistic.
And York built that so they could increase development.

2016 - Highway 407 East and Highway 412....this was a good project, but like the original 407, it is a toll. Even worse, the MTO is basically charging the same prices that the 407 ETR charges.....of course they need to, as the public sector is growing while the private sector is shrinking in this province....more taxes have to come from somewhere, or shall I quote what Kathleen says "revenue tools" If you want me to talk about a shrinking private sector, do you want me to mention how extreme costs of doing business in this province caused Heinz to shut the century old plant in Leamington? There are countless of other examples that have closed down in Ontario in recent years.

That rambling rant being what it is there, it's funny you mentioned Leamington, as you forgot the Highway 3 widening in that area done since the Liberals entered office.
Again, they have not done well on a lot of things (especially energy). But as I originally said, transportation is one area (maybe even the only area) where they've done exceptionally well.

Let's not mention the ongoing projects, any widening includes HOV lanes now, and don't get me started on the 401 widening in Mississauga, that just angers me to no end.

Widening through the interchange that causes the biggest backup on Hwy 401 west of Toronto? Yeah, that sucks.   :crazy:

And yes, any widening includes HOV. As it has been since well before the current party took power. That project was initiated in 2001. Well into the HOV era.

If you want to talk transit,

Nope.

How much has the outlying region grown since the cancellation of Spadina, by at least 3 folds. This has happened mainly due to immigration and yet the feds always seem to jump away when we try to ask them for money for projects. Do you honestly think the City of Brampton back in 1974 wanted all these immigrants to dramatically change how the city functions? The feds are responsible for the massive growth so they are responsible for this transportation crisis we face.

Immagants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears I knew it was them!   :)



For comparison's sake, in 2002, the last full year of Conservative's mandate, in the GTA MTO had 31 capital construction jobs. In 2015, the last complete year under the Liberals, they had 53. That's just standard delivery, not the alternative delivery models like 407, Herb Grey Pkwy, etc. And the economic picture of the province was far rosier in 2002 than 2015.

And further comparison, the last full year under NDP (1994) had 34 contracts issued in the GTA. The Liberals clearly have made highway funding a priority. They've sucked at a lot of areas, but transportation is not one.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on July 28, 2016, 11:55:58 AM

And further comparison, the last full year under NDP (1994) had 34 contracts issued in the GTA. The Liberals clearly have made highway funding a priority. They've sucked at a lot of areas, but transportation is not one.

However, the Ottawa Valley between Pembrooke and Arnprior still wait for a upgrade of TCH-17 into TCH-417 althought some work at finally started west of Arnprior.

There's also on and off-talks of link between A-5 and TCH-417 and more recently came the idea of a tunnel in the Sandy Hill area of Ottawa.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7513831&postcount=193
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/city-hall-blog-king-edward-truck-tunnel-study-coming-in-august

And some residents in Cumberland don't want Hwy-174 (former TCH-17) being upgraded. http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/6765411-residents-file-appeal-over-174-widening-through-cumberland/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 28, 2016, 01:24:16 PM
There's also on and off-talks of link between A-5 and TCH-417 and more recently came the idea of a tunnel in the Sandy Hill area of Ottawa.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7513831&postcount=193
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/city-hall-blog-king-edward-truck-tunnel-study-coming-in-august

It is unusual that there isn't any freeway-freeway connection between the Ottawa and Gatineau areas. The bridges seemed to get busy when I was there in January.

That truck tunnel seems pretty cool, I'm looking forward to reading what the study says.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on July 28, 2016, 02:07:09 PM
The area between A-5 and ON 417 has always struck me as a definite gap in Canada's freeway system.  Too bad it looks like the tunnel to fill that gap will be truck-only.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 28, 2016, 02:18:46 PM
^ One of the City's Councilor's leaked some details about the tunnel in the spring.  From what was leaked, it would be a four lane tunnel and open to cars as well.  It will probably be tolled.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/05/30/king-edward-truck-tunnel-study-release-delayed-until-september
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on July 28, 2016, 04:49:37 PM
^ One of the City's Councilor's leaked some details about the tunnel in the spring.  From what was leaked, it would be a four lane tunnel and open to cars as well.  It will probably be tolled.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/05/30/king-edward-truck-tunnel-study-release-delayed-until-september

Better tolled than not built it all. That's the best option now to get it built.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on July 28, 2016, 09:49:06 PM
The area between A-5 and ON 417 has always struck me as a definite gap in Canada's freeway system.  Too bad it looks like the tunnel to fill that gap will be truck-only.

The gap in A-20 west of Montreal is much worse IMO.

^ One of the City's Councilor's leaked some details about the tunnel in the spring.  From what was leaked, it would be a four lane tunnel and open to cars as well.  It will probably be tolled.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/05/30/king-edward-truck-tunnel-study-release-delayed-until-september

Better tolled than not built it all. That's the best option now to get it built.

First I've heard about this. I would toll the tunnel at a moderate rate until the project is paid off. The Coquihalla in BC (it was tolled until 2011) is a good example of how to do it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 29, 2016, 05:13:03 PM
Some of the road projects going on in Northern Ontario.

http://dailycommercialnews.com/Infrastructure/News/2016/7/Province-announces-541-million-for-northern-Ontario-highways-1017565W/ (http://dailycommercialnews.com/Infrastructure/News/2016/7/Province-announces-541-million-for-northern-Ontario-highways-1017565W/)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on July 30, 2016, 10:45:03 AM
I've continued this conversation in the Quebec's Highways thread. (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2353.msg2162838#msg2162838) It's been too long since that thread has gotten any attention :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on July 30, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
I've continued this conversation in the Quebec's Highways thread. (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2353.msg2162838#msg2162838) It's been too long since that thread has gotten any attention :)
Good point. I moved the Québec specific posts over.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 03, 2016, 07:23:00 PM
I found this article from Monday:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/01/motorists-can-enter-hot-lane-lottery (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/01/motorists-can-enter-hot-lane-lottery)

Quote
Motorists will have to win a lottery if they want the privilege of paying to use toll lanes on the congested QEW.

The province has unveiled plans to allow drivers who are alone their cars to pay a toll to use existing HOV lanes on the QEW — between Trafalgar Rd. to Guelph Line — effective Sept. 15. Vehicles carrying more than one person can continue to use the HOV lanes without paying a toll.

The province announced that motorists hoping to use the HOT (high-occupancy-toll) lanes will have to enter a lottery which runs until Aug. 21. HOT permits will cost $180 for a three-month period.

“For the purpose of this pilot, the only infrastructure change that drivers will notice on the highways will be signage: HOV lanes on the QEW — from Trafalgar Rd. to Guelph Line — will be renamed HOT lanes,” said Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca.

No live lanes of traffic will be removed during the four-year trial for the toll lanes.

However, only 1,000 permits will be available for each three month period.

Del Duca said the lottery is the fairest way to distribute the permits. Motorists can apply online through Service Ontario.

“By limiting the number of permits, we are shifting our focus — for only the QEW pilot — from revenue generation to introducing a new travel method to commuters,” he added.

During the pilot project, the government hopes to find companies to develop new technologies to help it create a fully-automatic network of toll lanes across southern Ontario.

The province has announced that a 15.5-kilometre stretch of dedicated HOT lanes will open in 2021 on Hwy. 427, from Hwy. 409 to north of Rutherford Rd.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 03, 2016, 08:31:37 PM
Essentially what is being sold here is a cap and trade system....or similar to the medallion system with cabs.

I hope to god this isn't the permanent way they choose to approach this. I'm fairly conservative on most issues, but when it comes to the commute, everyone should be on an even playing field, the government should provide with infrastructure, many ways to commute EFFICIENTLY. This, along with nonsense like toll highways are incredibly unfair.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 03, 2016, 08:38:05 PM
Essentially what is being sold here is a cap and trade system....or similar to the medallion system with cabs.

I hope to god this isn't the permanent way they choose to approach this. I'm fairly conservative on most issues, but when it comes to the commute, everyone should be on an even playing field, the government should provide with infrastructure, many ways to commute EFFICIENTLY. This, along with nonsense like toll highways are incredibly unfair.

It also seems to defeat the whole purpose of having HOV lanes in the first place, if you can simply pay money to get out of the requirement of having passengers. I would imagine environmentalists would be strongly opposed to this. And I agree, it sounds like an idea that unfairly benefits the wealthy.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 03, 2016, 09:14:48 PM
Essentially what is being sold here is a cap and trade system....or similar to the medallion system with cabs.

I hope to god this isn't the permanent way they choose to approach this. I'm fairly conservative on most issues, but when it comes to the commute, everyone should be on an even playing field, the government should provide with infrastructure, many ways to commute EFFICIENTLY. This, along with nonsense like toll highways are incredibly unfair.

It also seems to defeat the whole purpose of having HOV lanes in the first place, if you can simply pay money to get out of the requirement of having passengers. I would imagine environmentalists would be strongly opposed to this. And I agree, it sounds like an idea that unfairly benefits the wealthy.

Great that you understand the issue I'm talking about.....if only a limited number of permits are issued, that means assuming the permits are transferable, that means that permit owners may "lease" their permits to those willing to pay for it. This is precisely the issue with the medallion system with cabs, where the actual license may cost a few thousand a year, but medallions in NYC sold for over a million back in 2011 (before the invasion of Uber which brought medallions down to the dumps).


Other cities do have HOT lanes, but I never understood the purpose of it. Even worse is that many HOT lanes use dynamic pricing, where the lane will cost more depending on overall demand. Uber does this exact same tactic and calls it "surge pricing", and has generated loads of controversy, yet no one complains when the government employs the same tactic.

As for "induced demand", I honestly understand that to be part of the overall green agenda myself. The main beliefs on induced demand seem to have come from a study based at UC Berkeley (enough said....) by Mark Hansen and Yuanlin Huang, there were a lot of assumptions with this document, they used gasoline sales instead of discrete counting to estimate how many cars used the roads. But yet, this document was treated like the holy grail as plans for HOV lanes became widespread after this. Then there is "The Price of Anarchy in Transportation Networks", in which a new group went as far as saying eliminating freeways helps alleviate traffic. While that is probably true, something tells me that although traffic would stabilize in downtown Toronto if the Gardiner was removed, there would be more avoidance of downtown which would lead to an economic hit to the city. This indeed happened during last year's Pan American games, traffic did go down when the HOV lane came, but economic activity in the city took a serious hit. Ask any mom and pop business downtown during the Pan Am games and you'll see what I mean.

Just because someone from academia says something doesn't mean it's right, want to know what a U Toronto civil engineering professor said about easing Toronto's traffic problems. Introducing a license plate rationing system where odd plates get to drive one day and even plates get to drive the other day....yes, proposed by Dr. Khandker Habib at the University of Toronto, one of the so called "best" civil engineering schools in the world.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/19/should_toronto_ban_cars_on_certain_days_based_on_licence_plates.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/19/should_toronto_ban_cars_on_certain_days_based_on_licence_plates.html)

I will not be brainwashed by such "induced demand" nonsense, and I will continue to stand my ground on what I believe in.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: lordsutch on August 03, 2016, 09:52:43 PM
The purpose of dynamic pricing of HOT (or express) lanes is to ensure the lanes remain free-flow; if the price is too low, more people will use them, eventually leading to a breakdown in traffic flow as the lane hits capacity.

As for "nobody complains," Google the term "Lexus lanes."
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 03, 2016, 11:33:37 PM
The purpose of dynamic pricing of HOT (or express) lanes is to ensure the lanes remain free-flow; if the price is too low, more people will use them, eventually leading to a breakdown in traffic flow as the lane hits capacity.

As for "nobody complains," Google the term "Lexus lanes."
Yes, but the idea of a lottery system completely eliminates the need for dynamic pricing, or really for even calling it an HOT. They may as well auction off 1,000 transponders labeled "two persons". It's a novel concept and I will be very interested to see how it works before passing judgment, but my initial thought is that it will work fairly well. 1,000 vehicles will not all be on the road at the same time. A single lane can process around 1,900 vehicles per hour, maybe a bit more at freeway speed. If their current counts are under 1,000 HOVs per hour, then this is the easy way to ration demand. The hard way is to build infrastructure that can sense occupancy and adjust pricing on the fly.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 04, 2016, 10:30:00 AM
Great that you understand the issue I'm talking about.....if only a limited number of permits are issued, that means assuming the permits are transferable, that means that permit owners may "lease" their permits to those willing to pay for it.

They are assigned to a vehicle, and are therefore not transferable.

Other cities do have HOT lanes, but I never understood the purpose of it. Even worse is that many HOT lanes use dynamic pricing, where the lane will cost more depending on overall demand. Uber does this exact same tactic and calls it "surge pricing", and has generated loads of controversy, yet no one complains when the government employs the same tactic.

People often complain... but they also complain about taxes. This implements a user fee and therefore reduces the drain on the tax base.

As for "induced demand", I honestly understand that to be part of the overall green agenda myself.

Nope.

The main beliefs on induced demand seem to have come from a study based at UC Berkeley (enough said....) by Mark Hansen and Yuanlin Huang, there were a lot of assumptions with this document, they used gasoline sales instead of discrete counting to estimate how many cars used the roads. But yet, this document was treated like the holy grail as plans for HOV lanes became widespread after this.

HOV lanes induce demand as well. Using that argument for HOV is completely counter to itself.

Then there is "The Price of Anarchy in Transportation Networks", in which a new group went as far as saying eliminating freeways helps alleviate traffic.

Over the course of a day, it would reduce your overall numbers. Not going to help you in your peaks.


While that is probably true, something tells me that although traffic would stabilize in downtown Toronto if the Gardiner was removed, there would be more avoidance of downtown which would lead to an economic hit to the city. This indeed happened during last year's Pan American games, traffic did go down when the HOV lane came, but economic activity in the city took a serious hit. Ask any mom and pop business downtown during the Pan Am games and you'll see what I mean.

When a situation is temporary, there is a huge hit. When it becomes long term or permanent, people accept it.

I will not be brainwashed by such "induced demand" nonsense, and I will continue to stand my ground on what I believe in.

What about trip generation? That's a principle that organizations such as the ITE have been using for decades - even before the "green agenda" strawman that's been brought up. Because that's the BASIS OF INDUCED DEMAND.


A very simplified summary:

The amount of development in an area generates X number of trips.
The amount of transportation capacity is Y trips per hour.
(note I said transportation capacity, not just road. This applies just as much to all modes, including transit, cycling, walking)

Scenario 1 - X = Y, then the network will operate at 100% capacity
Scenario 2 - X > Y, then the network operates at 100% capacity, as that is the maximum possible value

If you are under scenario 2, then people have two options:
A. Do not live/do business in the congested area
B. Accept the congestion; trips are consolidated and/or discretionary trips eliminated

If there is sufficient incentive (economic, personal preference, etc) to remain in the congested area, then they will choose option B.

Now, let's throw an infrastructure expansion (let's call it E) into this.

Scenario 3 - X = (Y + E)
Now we've already established that any capacity equal to or lesser than X will operate at 100%. Therefore all you've done is serve the demand that already existed. This is commonly referred to as "induced demand" and is a thing that really does exist. And as I said, it applies just as much to transit and other modes as it does to roads.

So, why do we bother expanding our transportation network? Well, basically there's another factor out there called growth (G). This is both new residents and new business moving into in an area. And with enough growth, eventually your transportation network will be overwhelmed.

Growth Scenario - (X+G) > Y

So, we go back to the options from above. If X+G exceeds Y by too much, then more and more people will choose the first option and avoid the area. Which is not good for economic growth. But you need to pick and choose carefully where you make those expansion investments. And that's where either ham-fisted approach (more capacity will screw everything up vs. induced demand is a myth pave over everything) will fail you. It's incredibly difficult to manage it in a congested area like the GTA. So you have things like HOT - where you expand capacity, but do so in a way that maximizes those limited resources.

Having every lane open to every vehicle and it all being free to use is a nice fantasy. In a world without constraints it could work. But we live in the real world, one with limited space, limited money, limited resources, and a growing number of people all demanding to use them. They need to be managed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 04, 2016, 12:40:30 PM
More curiosities with the GTA!

It turns out that not only Highway 400 was supposed to be extended south, exit numbers reflect it. Now I know why Highway 401 is Exit 21 instead of Exit 1; it reflects the southward extension.

The street network is odd - streets shift and turn, the grid is skewed, and some streets don't even have directional suffixes. Vaughan and Markham don't seem to have this problem, though isn't their street network a continuation of Toronto's? Maybe Toronto's street network dates to the colonial era.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 04, 2016, 12:49:08 PM
Maybe Toronto's street network dates to the colonial era.

 :nod:
A lot of roads that don't follow the grid date back to the days prior to the British concession system being put in place there. They follow old colonization trails and the like.

Most of Ontario follows that system. A big exception is Kitchener-Waterloo, where the German settlers used their own freaky system.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 04, 2016, 12:54:05 PM
Maybe Toronto's street network dates to the colonial era.

 :nod:
A lot of roads that don't follow the grid date back to the days prior to the British concession system being put in place there. They follow old colonization trails and the like.

Most of Ontario follows that system. A big exception is Kitchener-Waterloo, where the German settlers used their own freaky system.  :biggrin:

Yep, I mentioned this in my Cites with odd street networks (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18471.0) thread. It was certainly a big change going from Brampton's grid system to KW :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 04, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
IMO dynamic pricing of HOT lanes is more fair because it gives everyone a chance to decide if they want to pay for the lanes or not on a per-trip basis.  The system Ontario wants restricts it to the privileged few who are lucky enough to win a lottery.  Not fair at all.

More curiosities with the GTA!

It turns out that not only Highway 400 was supposed to be extended south, exit numbers reflect it. Now I know why Highway 401 is Exit 21 instead of Exit 1; it reflects the southward extension.
That's what I thought, but there are only 11 km to the Gardiner, so the numbers would have started at 10 even if ON 400 had been finished.  No idea what the extra 10 km is supposed to be for.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 04, 2016, 01:42:44 PM
Maybe Toronto's street network dates to the colonial era.

 :nod:
A lot of roads that don't follow the grid date back to the days prior to the British concession system being put in place there. They follow old colonization trails and the like.

Most of Ontario follows that system. A big exception is Kitchener-Waterloo, where the German settlers used their own freaky system.  :biggrin:

Yep, I mentioned this in my Cites with odd street networks (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18471.0) thread. It was certainly a big change going from Brampton's grid system to KW :-D

Not to get too far off-topic, but every time I see the Kitchener/Waterloo area on a map, it feels like I'm playing an old Sim City game, where everything is slightly tilted, never to be seen straight on. Sometimes I get a small headache too.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 04, 2016, 01:44:25 PM
MTO's system is modeled after a decal system that was used along the I-15 corridor in Salt Lake City in the early days of it's HOT lane programme.

I've done a few google searches to look for information on exactly how the decal system was managed by UDOT but haven't found anything too specific as of yet.

Here is what I have found:
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/publications/documents/nrpc0610/workshop_materials/case_studies/salt_lake_city.pdf
http://scoe.transportation.org/Documents/Boston%202011/Brandon%20Weston.pdf

The lottery system definitely isn't perfect, but seeing as there is already a toll highway that serves basically the same corridor, it's not like there isn't already another option.

Dynamic pricing on the QEW is going to itself being somewhat of a dilemma.  Any pricing structure that is less that the toll rates on the 407 could conceivably start to attract traffic that would otherwise be bound for the 407.  The QEW's HOT lanes won't have sufficient capacity to accept 407 traffic, so I suspect the rates will have to be higher than what's already in place on the 407 just to ensure the lane remains free-flow.

One of the really noteworthy things about this HOT pilot project is how inexpensive the tags are going to be.  Consider similar solo travel on the 407 for two trips a day, five days per week for three months would cost over $1000 in the same three month period.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 04, 2016, 03:31:46 PM
More curiosities with the GTA!

It turns out that not only Highway 400 was supposed to be extended south, exit numbers reflect it. Now I know why Highway 401 is Exit 21 instead of Exit 1; it reflects the southward extension.

The street network is odd - streets shift and turn, the grid is skewed, and some streets don't even have directional suffixes. Vaughan and Markham don't seem to have this problem, though isn't their street network a continuation of Toronto's? Maybe Toronto's street network dates to the colonial era.

The reason why Markham and Vaughan's street network is a continuation of Toronto's is because present day Toronto used to be part of what we know now today as York Region. It was York County way back when, but the point is, that Toronto used to be part of what is now known as York Region but split in 1954 to form Metropolitan Toronto. Metro Toronto would exist until 1997, in which the six cities which made up Metro Toronto were amalgamated into a single City of Toronto. The only part of Toronto that's any bit confusing to me if you want to be honest is East York.

A slight curiosity and fun fact, Eglinton Avenue passes through all six former cities during its length across the city.

If you notice, the street grid in Peel Region, that is Mississauaga, Brampton, and Caledon is roughly diagonals instead of N, S, E, W, this concession grid was drawn parallel to Lake Ontario I do believe. The point I'm making is that it's not the same grid system in Toronto/York Region.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 04, 2016, 04:28:24 PM
IMO dynamic pricing of HOT lanes is more fair because it gives everyone a chance to decide if they want to pay for the lanes or not on a per-trip basis.  The system Ontario wants restricts it to the privileged few who are lucky enough to win a lottery.  Not fair at all.

The "privilege" to pay for it? Alps' post a little bit ago hit the nail right on the head - it's about squeezing extra capacity out of it without degrading service. Only a finite number of SOV are permitted in the lane. If you allow everyone in, then the toll would have to be incredibly high to actually keep it from being overwhelmed (see Asphalt Planet's earlier post for a comparison of what people are willing to pay). Rationing the permits keeps it moving, and allows them to maintain the lane's operation.

That's what I thought, but there are only 11 km to the Gardiner, so the numbers would have started at 10 even if ON 400 had been finished.  No idea what the extra 10 km is supposed to be for.

Distances were likely measured right to downtown, which would put it to roughly 15-17 km from Jane St (exit 20). Likely rounded up in order to give themselves some margin for error on that.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 04, 2016, 06:03:12 PM
Makes me wonder if it's even appropriate for HOT lanes, then.  Plus ON 407's toll policies are not at all friendly to occasional users... the monthly pass has a fee, and the bill by mail surcharge is obscene.  In fact, ON 407 is THE reason why my parents will never use an all-electronic toll road.

The lottery isn't exactly equitable.  Someone could win who is single and has flext time and doesn't really need to worry about when they get to work/home but simply are annoyed by the traffic and take a pass from someone who has a family and works a strict hourly job where they'd get their pay docked or be fired if they're late.  What about someone who would only use the lanes if the traffic was really bad?  Or someone who moved in after the lottery was held, or changed jobs/homes?

IMO all people have a moral duty to do all they can to make life 100% fair to everyone.  Ontario isn't fulfilling that duty right now.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 04, 2016, 06:51:36 PM
^ That argument is preposterous.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 04, 2016, 11:32:19 PM
IMO dynamic pricing of HOT lanes is more fair because it gives everyone a chance to decide if they want to pay for the lanes or not on a per-trip basis.  The system Ontario wants restricts it to the privileged few who are lucky enough to win a lottery.  Not fair at all.

More curiosities with the GTA!

It turns out that not only Highway 400 was supposed to be extended south, exit numbers reflect it. Now I know why Highway 401 is Exit 21 instead of Exit 1; it reflects the southward extension.
That's what I thought, but there are only 11 km to the Gardiner, so the numbers would have started at 10 even if ON 400 had been finished.  No idea what the extra 10 km is supposed to be for.
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 04, 2016, 11:38:07 PM
IMO dynamic pricing of HOT lanes is more fair because it gives everyone a chance to decide if they want to pay for the lanes or not on a per-trip basis.  The system Ontario wants restricts it to the privileged few who are lucky enough to win a lottery.  Not fair at all.

More curiosities with the GTA!

It turns out that not only Highway 400 was supposed to be extended south, exit numbers reflect it. Now I know why Highway 401 is Exit 21 instead of Exit 1; it reflects the southward extension.
That's what I thought, but there are only 11 km to the Gardiner, so the numbers would have started at 10 even if ON 400 had been finished.  No idea what the extra 10 km is supposed to be for.
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.

I believe that would have been the crosstown expressway which meets the Spadina Expressway, the 400 would have never met the Spadina expressway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 05, 2016, 07:50:26 AM
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.

This site isn't particularly well written, but it has maps that show the various iterations of the never-built 400-extension.

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/highway-400-extension.html
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 05, 2016, 08:21:17 AM
Photos of the signage along the recently widened section of Highway 7/8 through Kitchener.  These photos were taken back in May, so they are very much out of date in terms of surface course paving:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_184_east_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_184-5_east_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_185_east_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_185-5_east_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_186_east_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_188_east_t_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_186-5_west_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_186_west_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_185-5_west_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_185_west_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_184-5_west_May16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/2011-3003/2016/05-May/7_dv_184_west_May16.jpg)

The full set, and some more non-sign photos:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/Contracts/Conestoga_Construction.htm#May16
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 06, 2016, 01:34:26 AM
I always wondered why there are so many urban "county" roads here in Ontario. Seems so anachronistic to me
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 06, 2016, 02:57:56 PM

Hmmm, I thought someone on here said it was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of Connecting Links? Victoria St has Hwy 7 and RR 55 shields side by side, so I thought this would equate to a Connecting Link. I figured this means the Region maintains the road, but signs it as a provincial highway. How is that different from a Connecting Link?

A Connecting Link is a legal agreement between the municipality and the Province. The road is designated as a continuation of the King's Highway, and while the municipality owns the roadway, many operations on it are subject to MTO review and approval. The upside of that is that expenses the municipality incurs along the designated CL receive provincial funding. In the case of Victoria Street, no such agreement is in place.

Thank you for the explanation! Wikipedia says it's not a CL either, and I believe you. But I'm still wondering who maintains Victoria St, since it has both a Hwy designation and a RR designation?

My question got buried here, but I'm wondering now if Victoria St is a full regional road (maintained by the region) that is simply signed as Hwy 7 to make navigation easier?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 06, 2016, 03:30:21 PM
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.

This site isn't particularly well written, but it has maps that show the various iterations of the never-built 400-extension.

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/highway-400-extension.html
I'll quote this post since I've found more interesting things while checking the site.

It's turns out that they want to complete their road transportation plans from the 1960s, by using tunnels (a la I-710 gap). Here's what they want to do with Toronto: Link (http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/roads.html)

It makes sense: Toronto has tripled in size since 1971 (when they had last built a major freeway, or even a road) and thus gridlock is occurring. However, due to political reasons, nobody wants to build anything.

But what's strange about Toronto is that there's a lot of parks and rivers - not small neighborhood parks to go on the weekends, but large parks, such as parks along the Don Valley Parkway, and rivers running through Toronto. This must date to when Toronto wasn't a full blown major city.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 06, 2016, 06:48:58 PM

My question got buried here, but I'm wondering now if Victoria St is a full regional road (maintained by the region) that is simply signed as Hwy 7 to make navigation easier?

That is accurate. There are a few cases where the municipality signs the provincial route for continuity's sake but forgoing strings that come attached to a CL agreement. Victoria Street is one such example.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 07, 2016, 01:13:20 AM
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.

This site isn't particularly well written, but it has maps that show the various iterations of the never-built 400-extension.

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/highway-400-extension.html
I'll quote this post since I've found more interesting things while checking the site.

It's turns out that they want to complete their road transportation plans from the 1960s, by using tunnels (a la I-710 gap). Here's what they want to do with Toronto: Link (http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/roads.html)

I'm sorry, but that plan looks so ridiculous, especially the roadway over Lake Ontario (the "offshore extension"). Like I mentioned earlier, I really don't think anything will be done in regards to freeways in Toronto. Fun to speculate, but that type of stuff will forever belong in the "fictional highways" board.

There is a proposed tunnel in Ottawa though that would connect ON 417 to A-5 in Quebec. Looks pretty neat if it will ever be built (which I don't think ever will be).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 07, 2016, 01:28:01 AM
The 400 would have swung east partway on its journey southward and hooked up with the Allen Rd./Spadina Expwy. I at least get about 15 km out of that, but 21 is tough.

This site isn't particularly well written, but it has maps that show the various iterations of the never-built 400-extension.

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/highway-400-extension.html
I'll quote this post since I've found more interesting things while checking the site.

It's turns out that they want to complete their road transportation plans from the 1960s, by using tunnels (a la I-710 gap). Here's what they want to do with Toronto: Link (http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/roads.html)

I'm sorry, but that plan looks so ridiculous, especially the roadway over Lake Ontario (the "offshore extension"). Like I mentioned earlier, I really don't think anything will be done in regards to freeways in Toronto. Fun to speculate, but that type of stuff will forever belong in the "fictional highways" board.

There is a proposed tunnel in Ottawa though that would connect ON 417 to A-5 in Quebec. Looks pretty neat if it will ever be built (which I don't think ever will be).
Yeah I tried to be nice but, well, I'll admit the plan is ridiculous. I do not think that those freeways will ever happen. Seriously, I think that FritzOwl will have his freeways built by the time these freeways have a study completed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 07, 2016, 11:47:28 AM
Why would Victoria be signed as Highway 7, when it follows the Conestoga?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 07, 2016, 08:34:02 PM
Why would Victoria be signed as Highway 7, when it follows the Conestoga?

Coming from the west, Highway 7 and 8 follow the Conestoga Parkway, then Hwy 8 branches off while 7 stays on the Parkway. Then, at Victoria St, Hwy 7 leaves the parkway and follows Victoria St east to Guelph. At this point, the Conestoga Parkway becomes 85 as it heads north to Waterloo.

So to clarify, Victoria St is Hwy 7 from the Parkway east to Guelph and beyond.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 07, 2016, 08:40:41 PM
I just took a trip to Forks of the Credit today (which was beautiful, I can't believe I've never been before when I grew up in Brampton)! But anyway, I noticed on the 410 extension that the median lights aren't up north of Mayfield Rd, though the base supports seems to be there.

This picture from Wikipedia shows what I mean, and even notes this in the caption. Does anyone know why the high-mast lighting isn't in place?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/410_Extension.png/1024px-410_Extension.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: compdude787 on August 07, 2016, 09:42:57 PM
Possibly because it isn't close enough to an exit? Here where I live, you never see lights on a freeway where there's not an exit around. But, it's weird that they put in the bolts for the lights but didn't actually put the lights in.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 08, 2016, 09:12:25 AM
I just took a trip to Forks of the Credit today (which was beautiful, I can't believe I've never before when I grew up in Brampton)! But anyway, I noticed on the 410 extension that the median lights aren't up north of Mayfield Rd, though the base supports seems to be there.

This picture from Wikipedia shows what I mean, and even notes this in the caption. Does anyone know why the high-mast lighting isn't in place?

The northern most portion of the 410 probably didn't meet the lighting warrant when it was constructed, so they didn't install high mast lights.  Though they probably recognized that lighting may be required in the future, so built the mounts so that lighting can be installed once it is warranted.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 08, 2016, 10:30:00 AM
^ But by today's overly strict regulations about building near rivers, the area won't be fully built out anyways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 08, 2016, 10:54:33 AM
^ But by today's overly strict regulations about building near rivers, the area won't be fully built out anyways.

Adjacent development is a factor for intersection illumination on a King's Highway, but not for continuous freeway illumination.

The biggest construction cost is of course running the conduits and installing the footings, so putting them in during a major construction project (in this case, building from scratch) makes total sense. But the rest of the costs - poles, wires, luminaires, and far an away the most, the operation and maintenance - it makes sense to defer until it's needed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 09, 2016, 07:10:06 PM
^ Thanks guys for answering my 410 lighting question.

I noticed on my trip to Grey County a couple weekends ago that they've changed the design of their regional road shields. Also, the photos below show that Simcoe County also changed their design.

Here's a photo from thekingshighway.ca which shows the old designs for Grey County (left) and Simcoe County (right) on old Hwy 24 (photo taken May 13, 2007)

(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-2/hwy24-46_lg.jpg)

And here is the GSV of what I believe is the same location, taken in June 2015

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2700778,-80.2328735,3a,15y,30.94h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFNeoJI2nKjRxyLLuwlI8_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2700778,-80.2328735,3a,15y,30.94h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFNeoJI2nKjRxyLLuwlI8_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
(http://i.imgur.com/zBXlfSI.png)

GSV suggests that Simcoe County switched between August 2009 and October 2011, while Grey County switched between October 2011 and June 2015. I'm surprised I didn't notice sooner, but I unfortunately don't head up that way as often as I used to :-/
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 09, 2016, 10:33:21 PM
^ Thanks guys for answering my 410 lighting question.

I noticed on my trip to Grey County a couple weekends ago that they've changed the design of their regional road shields. Also, the photos below show that Simcoe County also changed their design.

Here's a photo from thekingshighway.ca which shows the old designs for Grey County (left) and Simcoe County (right) on old Hwy 24 (photo taken May 13, 2007)

(http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-2/hwy24-46_lg.jpg)

And here is the GSV of what I believe is the same location, taken in June 2015

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2700778,-80.2328735,3a,15y,30.94h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFNeoJI2nKjRxyLLuwlI8_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2700778,-80.2328735,3a,15y,30.94h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFNeoJI2nKjRxyLLuwlI8_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
(http://i.imgur.com/zBXlfSI.png)

GSV suggests that Simcoe County switched between August 2009 and October 2011, while Grey County switched between October 2011 and June 2015. I'm surprised I didn't notice sooner, but I unfortunately don't head up that way as often as I used to :-/

You can thank Clearview for the Grey County font change (still beats Helvetica any day of the week). The Simcoe sign really should have the name more clearly IMO.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 09, 2016, 10:47:58 PM
You can thank Clearview for the Grey County font change (still beats Helvetica any day of the week). The Simcoe sign really should have the name more clearly IMO.

That GSV photo isn't the greatest for the Simcoe County shield, so here's an illustration I found from Google Images

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Simcoe_Road_124_sign.png)

I agree that they sacrificed some legibility for appearance, but it's funny how the new version reads "County of Simcoe County Road 124" :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 11, 2016, 09:20:33 PM
Looks like the ON 69 twinning (and future ON-400) is now open. I found this on another forum: http://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=925407

Still not on Google though. If it's not there by Monday, I'll report it in.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: chays on August 12, 2016, 11:05:04 AM
Looks like the ON 69 twinning (and future ON-400) is now open. I found this on another forum: http://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=925407

Still not on Google though. If it's not there by Monday, I'll report it in.
Do you know if this is controlled access with any new interchanges?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Chris on August 12, 2016, 11:36:14 AM
Yes, they built two new interchanges, one interchange with Highway 64 near Alban and another north of there for forest access. It's basically a freeway. An interchange with highway 607 is under construction as part of the extension southward.

It opened on August 5th.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 13, 2016, 11:21:47 AM
Last weekend I took some photos of the section of the 401 through Cambridge being widened from six to ten lanes:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/401_2014-3014_google.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_west_C_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_east_C_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_east_EB_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_281_west_c_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_281_east_c_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_281_east_C_t_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_281_east_EB_w_Aug16_forum.jpg)

My entire set of images:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_CambridgeCons_images.htm (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Hwy401_CambridgeCons_images.htm)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 13, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
^ Nice photos AsphaltPlanet, thanks for posting these!

One question I've been meaning to ask is why the TCB (temporary concrete barrier) looks so "mismatched". They seem to be strange mix of light grey, dark grey and some yellow paint. Is it being reused from other sites (as opposed to brand new TCB)? I quoted 3 of your photos below which show the mismatched TCB along the median.

Also, the first photo quoted below shows the traffic problems on the 8 to 401 ramp that I've been hearing on the radio for months now. I've been using Fairway Rd > Fountain St > Maple Grove Rd > Hespeler Rd to avoid that section. :)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_west_C_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_east_C_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/Contracts/2014-3014/2016/08-Aug/401_cl_278_east_EB_Aug16_forum.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 13, 2016, 11:37:33 AM
^ Those are moveable zipper barriers, not standard TCB (or jersey barrier).  These do get re-used from different job sites, which probably explains why they look as they do.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 13, 2016, 12:40:03 PM
^ Those are moveable zipper barriers, not standard TCB (or jersey barrier).  These do get re-used from different job sites, which probably explains why they look as they do.

Of course, the distinct squarish tops should have given away that they're zipper barriers. I guess I'm a bit surprised they're being used here, since I didn't think they would be moving the barriers too often. Thanks AsphaltPlanet :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 13, 2016, 01:10:08 PM
^ Those are moveable zipper barriers, not standard TCB (or jersey barrier).  These do get re-used from different job sites, which probably explains why they look as they do.

Of course, the distinct squarish tops should have given away that they're zipper barriers. I guess I'm a bit surprised they're being used here, since I didn't think they would be moving the barriers too often. Thanks AsphaltPlanet :)

Sometimes, used zipper barrier segments get offered at prices that beat conventional barrier, just because they're too old for a permanent zipper system but they're still functional. May as well try to monetize it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 13, 2016, 07:00:20 PM
You can thank Clearview for the Grey County font change (still beats Helvetica any day of the week). The Simcoe sign really should have the name more clearly IMO.

That GSV photo isn't the greatest for the Simcoe County shield, so here's an illustration I found from Google Images

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Simcoe_Road_124_sign.png)

I'm the creator of that sign. Possibly "illegally", as I used the real logo, and don't know if it's Public Domain or not. Someone flagged it after uploading it to Wikipedia (on an second older account which thought was closed down years ago) and so I made a modified version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbered_roads_in_Simcoe_County#/media/File:Simcoe_Road_91_sign.png

Surprisingly, the guy flagged that image too as being too similar to the real version. But I uploaded them on the current account along with some of the real ones and haven't been bothered since.

PS: It looks like I'll have to make a Grey County 124 version to add to the Hurontario Street article.

 






Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 15, 2016, 12:27:31 PM
You can thank Clearview for the Grey County font change (still beats Helvetica any day of the week). The Simcoe sign really should have the name more clearly IMO.

That GSV photo isn't the greatest for the Simcoe County shield, so here's an illustration I found from Google Images

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Simcoe_Road_124_sign.png)

I'm the creator of that sign. Possibly "illegally", as I used the real logo, and don't know if it's Public Domain or not. Someone flagged it after uploading it to Wikipedia (on an second older account which thought was closed down years ago) and so I made a modified version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbered_roads_in_Simcoe_County#/media/File:Simcoe_Road_91_sign.png

Surprisingly, the guy flagged that image too as being too similar to the real version. But I uploaded them on the current account along with some of the real ones and haven't been bothered since.

PS: It looks like I'll have to make a Grey County 124 version to add to the Hurontario Street article.

Cool! Well I'm looking forward to seeing the new Grey CR 124 shield :)

On the topic of county/regional road shields, I also noticed that Perth county has a new shield design, and I really like it. I took this picture on Friday at the intersection with CR 107.

(http://i.imgur.com/pfBbHqY.jpg)

Judging from GSV, it looks like the new shields started between 2014 and 2015.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 15, 2016, 11:56:41 PM
I made the Grey CR 124 sign. Here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbered_roads_in_Grey_County#/media/File:Grey_Road_124_sign.png

I won't put it in the Hurontario St. article though because the Grey section isn't part of it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 17, 2016, 02:27:38 PM
Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel (Ottawa to Gatineau) feasibility study:

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/truck_tunnel_feasibility_en.pdf
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 17, 2016, 05:38:53 PM
MUCH better than what's there now, but it's too bad it still won't be a true freeway-freeway connection.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 17, 2016, 06:00:53 PM
This was purely an exercise in feasibility.  It doesn't look like they have really given too much thought to the connection at the 417 at this point.

If this project were to proceed moving forward a comprehensive environmental assessment would need to be completed, at which time a better connection to the 417 may (or may not be) evaluated.  If this project were to be built, it's a long way off, and this is far from final design.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 17, 2016, 07:26:18 PM
Thanks for posting the study; it's definitely an interesting read.

I found the section on Wacker Drive in Chicago interesting (Section 2.2, pages 8 & 9, slides 29 & 30 of pdf), as I've never heard of it before. I've always found the idea of a double-deck road to be intriguing. I also like the look of elevated freeways (I look forward to trips on the Gardiner, but I've also gotten lucky with traffic on it, for the most part :-D)

Section 1.1 (on page 1, slide 19 of pdf) raises some questions for me:

Quote
The construction of Quebec provincial Highway 5 and the six-lane Macdonald-Cartier Bridge across the Ottawa River in the 1960s resulted in significant increases in the number of motor vehicles on King Edward Avenue and downtown Ottawa roadways leading to Highway 417. In response to the growing demands for both cars and heavy trucks in the 1970s, plans were made for the construction of the “Vanier Arterial” that would link directly from the north end of King Edward Avenue and the off ramps from the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge, then cross east over the Rideau River and run along a former railway line to Highway 417. This controlled access roadway would offer an alternative north-south route to the King Edward Avenue and Nicholas Street Corridor for vehicles traveling between the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge and Highway 417. Federal and municipal parties involved in the construction of the “Vanier Arterial” ultimately made an agreement that trucks would be prohibited on that road; this requirement remains in force today.

The northern end of the now named Vanier Parkway, from Beechwood Avenue across the Rideau River to the bridge off ramps, was never built. It was removed from the road network plans of the former Regional Municipality of Ottawa-Carleton as part of the 1997 Regional Official Plan as approved by the Ontario Municipal Board.
As a result, the King Edward-Rideau-Waller-Nicholas (KERWN) corridor remains the main connection and truck route between Highway 417 and the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge.

1) Why are trucks prohibited on Vanier? Wouldn't it be better to have trucks on the better-designed arterial than on King Edward Ave going through the heart of the city?

2) How come the northern end of Vanier was never built? Was it simply too expensive? I don't think the current setup with St. Patrick is too bad (though keep in mind I'm judging this off only a couple days I spent in the area). But it stills seems like a shame to not finish through with the Vanier Arterial plan.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 17, 2016, 07:34:32 PM
Quick question: is there any double decker highways or bridges or whatever in Ontario, or even Canada? Because it seems the only double decker structure is the Prince Edward Viaduct.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 18, 2016, 10:39:27 PM
Quick question: is there any double decker highways or bridges or whatever in Ontario, or even Canada? Because it seems the only double decker structure is the Prince Edward Viaduct.

Not that I'm aware. But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 19, 2016, 12:16:18 AM
Quick question: is there any double decker highways or bridges or whatever in Ontario, or even Canada? Because it seems the only double decker structure is the Prince Edward Viaduct.

Not that I'm aware. But I could be wrong.


Whirlpool Bridge is technically half in Canada. :)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 19, 2016, 10:18:17 AM
Quick question: is there any double decker highways or bridges or whatever in Ontario, or even Canada? Because it seems the only double decker structure is the Prince Edward Viaduct.

Not that I'm aware. But I could be wrong.


Whirlpool Bridge is technically half in Canada. :)

Kinda sorta Burlington St in Hamilton (some of which was recently renamed Nikola Tesla Blvd).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 19, 2016, 12:35:25 PM
Quick question: is there any double decker highways or bridges or whatever in Ontario, or even Canada? Because it seems the only double decker structure is the Prince Edward Viaduct.

Not that I'm aware. But I could be wrong.


Whirlpool Bridge is technically half in Canada. :)

Kinda sorta Burlington St in Hamilton (some of which was recently renamed Nikola Tesla Blvd).

Cool, I didn't realize that Burlington St had a double-deck portion (in my defence, I've only driven it once). I definitely found it a cool road to drive, with large overpasses and corresponding signs like these, and the industrial scenery!

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.2647665,-79.8296652,3a,37.5y,121.38h,91.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soZUSE6vWswI2J8NOiL5JyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.2647665,-79.8296652,3a,37.5y,121.38h,91.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soZUSE6vWswI2J8NOiL5JyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
(http://i.imgur.com/AJqx0tc.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 19, 2016, 09:34:40 PM
I just noticed this substandard interchange on the 400 at Canal Road. I'm surprised it's even open! There's no acceleration or deceleration lanes.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.0505872,-79.6076419,159m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.0505872,-79.6076419,159m/data=!3m1!1e3)
(http://i.imgur.com/g5Tv9EP.png)

Doing a quick Google search, I found this article:

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2016/05/05/residents-want-hwy-400-ramps-to-canal-road-saved (http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2016/05/05/residents-want-hwy-400-ramps-to-canal-road-saved)

Here's part of the article

Quote
BRADFORD — Holland Marsh farmers and residents filled the local library's Zima Room this week seeking help to keep the Highway 400 ramps to Canal Road open.

They want Bradford West Gwillimbury councillors to support a resolution and back them up with the Ministry of Transportation (MTO), which plans to permanently close the ramps, once the Line 5 interchange is built.

The locals say the closure will affect both local agriculture and businesses such as the Canal Road Farmers’ Market.

“If this ramp closes on both sides (of Highway 400), it will be significant not only to me, but to everyone here,” said Celina Singh. “We’d really like your support to take this forward to the Ministry of Transportation to oppose closing these ramps.” 

Singh, who owns the farmers' market, pleaded with councillors.

“We don’t come from a rich family," she said. "We’ve worked so hard to make this farmers’ market work, and now we hear it’s being taken away from us.”

Ward 3 councillor Gary Lamb put forward a motion calling on the MTO to not close the ramps, and to shorten the period of time that Canal Road, between Wist and Davis roads, will be closed during the highway widening.

The current plans call for a three-year closure to cover the duration of construction.

Town council agreed to the closure of the ramps in 2006 after a tragic accident resulted in the death of a mother and her four-year-old son in the frigid waters of the north canal.

I can understand their complaints, but this interchange is so unsafe, when people are going 120-130 on the 400. And it's not like Hwy 9 or (in the future) Line 5 are that far away.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 19, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
I just noticed this substandard interchange on the 400 at Canal Road. I'm surprised it's even open! There's no acceleration or deceleration lanes.

Well, there is. The MTO just didn't construct any slip lanes (why does the deceleration lane continue past the turn off?). Note, for example, this interchange along the Sea-to-Sky Highway north of Vancouver. There is, similarly, little ROW available for wide, sweeping turns. But they constructed channelization islands to ensure that traffic didn't merge anywhere except into the acceleration lanes. This ensures that vehicles merge at-speed, rather than from a stop. The MTO could easily keep the Canal Road junction open. It just needs to be modified from its current configuration.

(http://i.imgur.com/l4SrMdo.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 19, 2016, 10:28:12 PM
I just noticed this substandard interchange on the 400 at Canal Road. I'm surprised it's even open! There's no acceleration or deceleration lanes.

Well, there is. The MTO just didn't construct any slip lanes (why does the deceleration lane continue past the turn off?).

I guess I should have scrolled farther, I thought they were regular lanes. I believe the deceleration lane continues past the turn off so it can be an acceleration lane for traffic entering the 400. In regards to channelization islands, maybe it would be too tight of a turn for large trucks?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 19, 2016, 11:08:41 PM
Speaking of Highway 400, there seems to be some strange interchange designs on some exits. Here's exit 35. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8492944,-79.5434745,15.42z) I know that Canada's Wonderland is right there, but wouldn't a simple diamond just work? Heck, even exit 33 has this design.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s and were later modified when Canada's Wonderland opened in the 1970s.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 19, 2016, 11:14:48 PM
Speaking of Highway 400, there seems to be some strange interchange designs on some exits. Here's exit 35. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8492944,-79.5434745,15.42z) I know that Canada's Wonderland is right there, but wouldn't a simple diamond just work? Heck, even exit 33 has this design.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s and were later modified when Canada's Wonderland opened in the 1970s.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but these look like Parclo A4's, which are very common in Ontario (let me know if you're referring to something else). The problem with diamond interchanges is that left turns lanes would be required on the arterials, which requires more lanes and a wider bridge, along with additional signal phasing.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 20, 2016, 12:13:36 AM
wouldn't a simple diamond just work?

Tell that to the MTO. If you go to Ontario, you have to look pretty hard for a diamond interchange; they're just not built commonly. Some areas could get away with a diamond, but are built with Parclo instead.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s

Maybe, but maybe not (I'm too lazy to look it up). Parclo's are definitely not an old style. This one on ON 69 (future ON 400) just opened two weeks ago (still not on Google)  :banghead:

https://goo.gl/maps/1W2BhjRMz5C2

The Parclo A4 is Ontario's default and standard interchange. It is basically used unless there is a reason not to. Rumour has it that the MTO invented the A4 (as far as I know, this has not been proven). I would guess ~90% of Ontario's interchanges are Parclo A4 today, and it will stay that way (the brand new ON 407 extension uses... guess what... Parclo A4's through its length). Other parts of Canada use Diamonds in the same way the US does.

The US however, does use A4's as well (though not as commonly obviously). Here is a row of three Parclo A4's in California:
https://goo.gl/maps/wT9tq6iRvzr

I'm not bashing Parclo's; I think they're a safe and convenient style that gets the job done. But I do think they're overused/overkill sometimes.

EDIT: Here's a diamond in Ontario. It took me a few minutes to find a "classic" one:

https://goo.gl/maps/VY2nS7N913F2
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: amroad17 on August 20, 2016, 05:45:54 AM
Even Kentucky has a few.  One is about two miles from where I live (I-275/KY 16 interchange, Exit 79).
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on August 20, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 20, 2016, 11:01:40 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.

Some cool photos and videos have been posted on here, starting on page 20. It's definitely an exciting project, and I'm glad I got to drive it a month ago. Now the 407 is finally a true bypass of Toronto. Before it ended in the middle of nowhere, so my family always used the 404 to get between the two, but the 412 is much nicer.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on August 20, 2016, 11:09:23 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.

Some cool photos and videos have been posted on here, starting on page 20. It's definitely an exciting project, and I'm glad I got to drive it a month ago. Now the 407 is finally a true bypass of Toronto. Before it ended in the middle of nowhere, so my family always used the 404 to get between the two, but the 412 is much nicer.

Sadly though, my parents never use the 407...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 20, 2016, 11:29:30 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.

Some cool photos and videos have been posted on here, starting on page 20. It's definitely an exciting project, and I'm glad I got to drive it a month ago. Now the 407 is finally a true bypass of Toronto. Before it ended in the middle of nowhere, so my family always used the 404 to get between the two, but the 412 is much nicer.

Sadly though, my parents never use the 407...

It is a ridiculously overpriced highway. It's hard not to be jealous of the US's toll roads, which generally have much cheaper toll rates.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 20, 2016, 11:56:08 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.

Some cool photos and videos have been posted on here, starting on page 20. It's definitely an exciting project, and I'm glad I got to drive it a month ago. Now the 407 is finally a true bypass of Toronto. Before it ended in the middle of nowhere, so my family always used the 404 to get between the two, but the 412 is much nicer.

Sadly though, my parents never use the 407...

It is a ridiculously overpriced highway.

Hence more incentive to drive it now while it's free!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on August 21, 2016, 01:00:50 PM
Highway 412 and Highway 407E was opened in 2016.

Some cool photos and videos have been posted on here, starting on page 20. It's definitely an exciting project, and I'm glad I got to drive it a month ago. Now the 407 is finally a true bypass of Toronto. Before it ended in the middle of nowhere, so my family always used the 404 to get between the two, but the 412 is much nicer.

Sadly though, my parents never use the 407...

It is a ridiculously overpriced highway.

Hence more incentive to drive it now while it's free!

I wish, but I never go that far east..
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: amroad17 on August 22, 2016, 02:54:02 AM
Speaking of Highway 400, there seems to be some strange interchange designs on some exits. Here's exit 35. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8492944,-79.5434745,15.42z) I know that Canada's Wonderland is right there, but wouldn't a simple diamond just work? Heck, even exit 33 has this design.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s and were later modified when Canada's Wonderland opened in the 1970s.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but these look like Parclo A4's, which are very common in Ontario (let me know if you're referring to something else). The problem with diamond interchanges is that left turns lanes would be required on the arterials, which requires more lanes and a wider bridge, along with additional signal phasing.
Isn't that considered a parclo A6 because of the six ramps?  The one on Hwy 400 is like the one near my house I mentioned seven posts back.  I believe A4's only have four ramps.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on August 22, 2016, 07:07:06 AM
Speaking of Highway 400, there seems to be some strange interchange designs on some exits. Here's exit 35. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8492944,-79.5434745,15.42z) I know that Canada's Wonderland is right there, but wouldn't a simple diamond just work? Heck, even exit 33 has this design.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s and were later modified when Canada's Wonderland opened in the 1970s.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but these look like Parclo A4's, which are very common in Ontario (let me know if you're referring to something else). The problem with diamond interchanges is that left turns lanes would be required on the arterials, which requires more lanes and a wider bridge, along with additional signal phasing.
Isn't that considered a parclo A6 because of the six ramps?  The one on Hwy 400 is like the one near my house I mentioned seven posts back.  I believe A4's only have four ramps.

Good question. The Wikipedia section on the naming of parclos explains how the number is not related to the number of ramps:

Quote
identified by a letter/number suffix after the name. Other jurisdictions do not have naming conventions, so Ontario's naming conventions are used in this article. The letter A designates that two ramps meet the freeway before the driver crosses the arterial road, while B designates that two ramps meet the freeway past the crossing.

The number designates how many quadrants of the interchange contain ramps. In left-hand drive countries, the ramps function the same as in right-hand drive countries, but ramps with the same designation appear visually reversed. Common parclo configurations include the Parclo A2, Parclo B2 and Parclo A4.

There's also a diagram of an A4 from the article which shows the six ramps:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Parclo_A4.svg/335px-Parclo_A4.svg.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 22, 2016, 11:58:45 AM
I just noticed this substandard interchange on the 400 at Canal Road. I'm surprised it's even open! There's no acceleration or deceleration lanes.
I can understand their complaints, but this interchange is so unsafe, when people are going 120-130 on the 400. And it's not like Hwy 9 or (in the future) Line 5 are that far away.

Quick answers to the questions in question:
- The interchange has that design because back in the 40s-50s they didn't know yet just how bad of an idea that was
- The auxiliary lane is there indeed to facilitate the RIRO movement, accelerating traffic has more space than usual to get up to speed
- Operating speed is 110-114 km/h, not quite the 120-130 mentioned earlier
- No channelization as there isn't the space for it
- Safety-wise the interchange actually does better than its conventiaonlly-designed neighbours. My speculation is that because it's so visibly terrible that people take extra caution
- The safety issues are Canal Rd itself, which admittedly aren't as bad as they were before the work over the last decade increased the space between the road and canal; removing the interchange reduces traffic on the roads

It is a ridiculously overpriced highway. It's hard not to be jealous of the US's toll roads, which generally have much cheaper toll rates.

The 407ETR is priced at the most attractive price it can be placed at before service breaks down. If it were cheaper, it would be an awful, congested road.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 22, 2016, 12:42:10 PM
- No channelization as there isn't the space for it

How so? What are the MTO's standards for channelization islands? Most jurisdictions that I can think of could fit a pork chop island in there, no problem.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 22, 2016, 02:46:10 PM
- No channelization as there isn't the space for it

How so? What are the MTO's standards for channelization islands? Most jurisdictions that I can think of could fit a pork chop island in there, no problem.

That's not a place for a channelization island, that's a freeway entrance so a full on ramp would be required.

Unless there's an issue with wrong-way movements at that location (and there isn't), then there's no need to put in an island there. In fact, the island itself would be more likely to cause an issue (hazard in the clear zone, maintenance issues with snow removal and/or piling on the island) than solve anything. So as an interim solution, this old design isn't doing badly, so don't mess with it. Long-term solution is to replace it completely.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 22, 2016, 03:31:03 PM
- No channelization as there isn't the space for it

How so? What are the MTO's standards for channelization islands? Most jurisdictions that I can think of could fit a pork chop island in there, no problem.

That's not a place for a channelization island, that's a freeway entrance so a full on ramp would be required.

Unless there's an issue with wrong-way movements at that location (and there isn't), then there's no need to put in an island there. In fact, the island itself would be more likely to cause an issue (hazard in the clear zone, maintenance issues with snow removal and/or piling on the island) than solve anything. So as an interim solution, this old design isn't doing badly, so don't mess with it. Long-term solution is to replace it completely.

I see. Any in case, the BC solution would be to channelise the exit and entrance ramps, such that you can't merge into anything more than the acceleration lane, and that you can't continue straight from the deceleration lane. Chevron markings and a raised island provide the channelisation necessary.

I'm guessing that the MTO doesn't consider BC's solution feasible? The example below (which I posted on the last page) is from the Sea to Sky Highway, which is more of an expressway, granted. But it feels more like a freeway than the Canal Road ramps. In the interim, I think it would be smart for the MTO to install small raised islands between the deceleration and acceleration lanes, until the interchange can be replaced entirely. At least to make things feel more natural. At the very least, paint some guidance lines and remove the stop sign. Why force traffic to stop when there's an acceleration lane?

(http://i.imgur.com/l4SrMdo.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 22, 2016, 05:01:34 PM
I see. Any in case, the BC solution would be to channelise the exit and entrance ramps, such that you can't merge into anything more than the acceleration lane, and that you can't continue straight from the deceleration lane. Chevron markings and a raised island provide the channelisation necessary.

Well, that sort of thing has been done before, such as in a whole pile of locations just to the north of there on Highway 11. But that's a road with a lower design speed and lower classification. And with

I'm guessing that the MTO doesn't consider BC's solution feasible? The example below (which I posted on the last page) is from the Sea to Sky Highway, which is more of an expressway, granted. But it feels more like a freeway than the Canal Road ramps. In the interim, I think it would be smart for the MTO to install small raised islands between the deceleration and acceleration lanes, until the interchange can be replaced entirely. At least to make things feel more natural. At the very least, paint some guidance lines and remove the stop sign. Why force traffic to stop when there's an acceleration lane?

Oh, that type of solution is feasible, but Ontario stopped designing interchanges like that about the same time they stopped building ones like Canal Road (seriously, a loop to pull a 180 degree turn within 20 m?).  :banghead:

In terms of interim solutions, sure you could channelize the throat of the intersection, but what problem will that hope to solve? In the last five years, the number of collisions that have occurred at the ramp terminals that might, MIGHT, be prevented by that solution is 1. A single collision. The number of collisions resulting from wrong way movements is a big fat zero. So you could spend money here to fix something that is a terrible design, but functions spectacularly well. Or you could spend money practically anywhere else in the province and definitely achieve a better cost/benefit ratio.

It's a terrible design. It really gives no room for error, it serves a lousy side road, and its spacing will not accommodate the planned widening of the highway. It needs to go, but since there's no demonstrated safety issue there then there's zero sense spending money on it until you absolutely need to do so.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 22, 2016, 10:49:14 PM
Some recent photos of the 417 extension west of Arnprior, Ontario:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_185_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_185_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_185_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Campbell Drive doesn't really go to Braeside, but nevertheless, the business district is signed via Campbell Drive.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_186_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_186_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_186_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Westbound advanced signage for the Campbell Drive interchange.  The remnants of the old lane configuration from when the four lane highway ended at this location are still visible on the pavement.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_187_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_187_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_187_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Signage at the westbound off-ramp to Campbell Drive.  Campbell Drive is Exit # 187.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_C_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_C_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_C_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Centralized view from the Campbell Drive overpass, looking easterly.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_WB_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_WB_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_east_WB_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Easterly view overtop of the westbound lanes.  The westbound lanes are effectively complete.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_structure_187_north_Aug16_forum.jpg)
Campbell Drive has a four lane cross-section overtop of the 417

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_sign_CampbellDr_NorthBay_Aug16_forum.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_sign_CampbellDr_Ottawa_Aug16_forum.jpg)
The control cities for the 417 are Ottawa and North Bay respectively.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_WB_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_WB_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_WB_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Westerly view over the westbound lanes from Campbell Drive

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_EB_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_EB_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_cl_187_west_EB_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Westerly view over the eastbound lanes.  By the looks of things, the eastbound lanes have been resurfaced using recycled asphalt.  Typically a leveling course followed by a surface wearing course would be applied to complete the highway.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_188_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_188_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_188_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Distance signage for the destinations that Highway 417 one day hopes to go to.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
The right lane ends.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-5_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-5_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-5_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Westerly view overtop of the Scheel Drive underpass.  The left shoulder has extra space then typical.  I'm guessing it was built that way to facilitate construction staging for the next extension of the 417 towards Renfrew (whenever that happens).

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-75_west_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-75_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/417_dv_189-75_west_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
A short stub was graded beyond the Scheel Drive underpass to facilitate a future extension of the four lane highway.

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/17_CentreLineRumbleStrip_Aug16_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/17_CentreLineRumbleStrip_Aug16_24x16.jpg (http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-427_images/17_CentreLineRumbleStrip_Aug16_24x16.jpg)
Continuing west on conventional Hwy 17.  Much of the next 2000km of highway look striking similar to this.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 22, 2016, 11:54:10 PM
What a welcome surprise! I didn't think that road was going to be opened until the fall. Now, all someone needs to do is fix Google, which has it horribly done and incorrect.

Too bad there's no more funding for more extensions west. But hey, you can't do everything at the same time. Perhaps this will be done further once the ON 69 (and maybe ON 11/17) cools off a bit.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 23, 2016, 04:07:13 PM
^ While the westbound lanes are pretty much complete, a lot of work remains in order to finish the eastbound lanes of the highway.  The eastbound structure for Scheel Drive isn't anywhere near completed, and the temporary road that the eastbound lanes are currently utilizing will need to be blasted and removed before Scheel Drive can be re-opened.  So it's indeed nice that the construction has advanced as far as it has, make no mistake, it will still be the end of 2016 before construction has been fully completed.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 23, 2016, 11:40:40 PM
I'm guessing that the MTO doesn't consider BC's solution feasible? The example below (which I posted on the last page) is from the Sea to Sky Highway, which is more of an expressway, granted. But it feels more like a freeway than the Canal Road ramps. In the interim, I think it would be smart for the MTO to install small raised islands between the deceleration and acceleration lanes, until the interchange can be replaced entirely. At least to make things feel more natural. At the very least, paint some guidance lines and remove the stop sign. Why force traffic to stop when there's an acceleration lane?

Oh, that type of solution is feasible, but Ontario stopped designing interchanges like that about the same time they stopped building ones like Canal Road (seriously, a loop to pull a 180 degree turn within 20 m?).  :banghead:

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 24, 2016, 08:16:27 AM
^ Really?

(http://i.imgur.com/l4SrMdo.png)

You realize the Sea-to-Sky Highway is posted at 60km/h through this interchange right?

http://goo.gl/dEOHHx
http://goo.gl/poqNc1

You aren't similarly proposing to lower the speed limit on the 400 to 60 as well are you?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 24, 2016, 09:22:07 AM
^ Really?

http://i.imgur.com/l4SrMdo.png

You realize the Sea-to-Sky Highway is posted at 60km/h through this interchange right?

http://goo.gl/dEOHHx
http://goo.gl/poqNc1

You aren't similarly proposing to lower the speed limit on the 400 to 60 as well are you?

A) cbeach was making a province vs province joke, so I jokingly told him to jog on.
B) the Sea to Sky has similar design standards even in the 100 km/h sections
C) my point was to highlight how you could similarly treat the dead area between the deceleration and acceleration lanes at the Canal Road interchange.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: amroad17 on August 24, 2016, 05:31:23 PM
Speaking of Highway 400, there seems to be some strange interchange designs on some exits. Here's exit 35. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8492944,-79.5434745,15.42z) I know that Canada's Wonderland is right there, but wouldn't a simple diamond just work? Heck, even exit 33 has this design.

I'm thinking that these interchanges date to the opening way back in the 1950s and were later modified when Canada's Wonderland opened in the 1970s.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but these look like Parclo A4's, which are very common in Ontario (let me know if you're referring to something else). The problem with diamond interchanges is that left turns lanes would be required on the arterials, which requires more lanes and a wider bridge, along with additional signal phasing.
Isn't that considered a parclo A6 because of the six ramps?  The one on Hwy 400 is like the one near my house I mentioned seven posts back.  I believe A4's only have four ramps.

Good question. The Wikipedia section on the naming of parclos explains how the number is not related to the number of ramps:

Quote
identified by a letter/number suffix after the name. Other jurisdictions do not have naming conventions, so Ontario's naming conventions are used in this article. The letter A designates that two ramps meet the freeway before the driver crosses the arterial road, while B designates that two ramps meet the freeway past the crossing.

The number designates how many quadrants of the interchange contain ramps. In left-hand drive countries, the ramps function the same as in right-hand drive countries, but ramps with the same designation appear visually reversed. Common parclo configurations include the Parclo A2, Parclo B2 and Parclo A4.

There's also a diagram of an A4 from the article which shows the six ramps:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Parclo_A4.svg/335px-Parclo_A4.svg.png)
I thought the numbering involved the number of ramps, not the number of quadrants.  Should have researched it more.  So, there is an A4 near my house.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 25, 2016, 03:38:27 PM
Some more strange things I've thought about is Highway 7's downloading and why 407 was tolled.

For one, was Highway 7 congested through Markham and Vaughan and thus needed a freeway bypass?

During construction of Highway 407, was it supposed to be tolled as a P3 and thus Cintra managed the tolls?

Was the government in debt at the time and thus needed the toll money?

It's really strange that Highway 407 isn't free and is priced very high. Highway 402 had also replaced Highway 7 and that never got tolled.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: lordsutch on August 25, 2016, 07:15:14 PM
Highway 407 was always planned as a bypass of 401 and 427 (although the southern section of 407 was originally intended to be Highway 403, hence why the 407 "bounces" off the QEW and there's a 403 multiplex with the QEW). My recollection was that it was built as a mostly-private project partially on the basis of ideology by the Ontario government of the day and partially to deliver it sooner. It was also really one of the first P3-type infrastructure projects in North America (around the same time as the Dulles Greenway), so some of the lessons learned from that first wave really weren't known yet - in retrospect, Ontario probably would have kept more control of the project, particularly in terms of tolls.

As for Highway 402, it was built substantially earlier (mostly in the 70s) and likely had limited prospect of being a viable toll road with the 401 as a toll-free, and at the time not particularly congested, alternative for the long-distance traffic it was built to serve - if there were no Blue Water Bridge crossing, there'd be no need for a London-Sarnia freeway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on August 25, 2016, 07:17:08 PM
Some more strange things I've thought about is Highway 7's downloading and why 407 was tolled.

For one, was Highway 7 congested through Markham and Vaughan and thus needed a freeway bypass?

During construction of Highway 407, was it supposed to be tolled as a P3 and thus Cintra managed the tolls?

Was the government in debt at the time and thus needed the toll money?

It's really strange that Highway 407 isn't free and is priced very high. Highway 402 had also replaced Highway 7 and that never got tolled.
Highway 7 is a limited-access highway from somewhere to Bayview, and then it has the idiotic bus lanes.
I think the 407 was constructed as a bypass of the 401.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on August 25, 2016, 07:31:30 PM
Some more strange things I've thought about is Highway 7's downloading and why 407 was tolled.

For one, was Highway 7 congested through Markham and Vaughan and thus needed a freeway bypass?

During construction of Highway 407, was it supposed to be tolled as a P3 and thus Cintra managed the tolls?

Was the government in debt at the time and thus needed the toll money?

It's really strange that Highway 407 isn't free and is priced very high. Highway 402 had also replaced Highway 7 and that never got tolled.
Highway 7 is a limited-access highway from somewhere to Bayview, and then it has the idiotic bus lanes.
I think the 407 was constructed as a bypass of the 401.
Correct. Highway 407 was the replacement for Highway 7 and the bypass for Highway 401.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on August 26, 2016, 08:33:46 AM
Quick points re: 407ETR

- Highway 402 was built conventionally back in the 1970s and 80s. The transfer of the parallel sections of Highways 7 and 22 was done much later, and unrelated to tolling.
- Highway 407 was originally conceived back in the 1960s as bypass of Highway 401
- MTO owned Highway 7 between Highway 410 and Markham up until 1997. It was transferred to Peel and York Regions as practically it does not serve through traffic
- The semi-limited access portion of Highway 7 from approximately from Keele to Bayview was built in conjunction with Highway 407 preparatory work, and just provides local express routing
- Highway 407 was originally built as what was then a PPP or P-3 with the province retaining ownership
- In order to balance the 1999 budget heading into an election, the government (Mike Harris' Ontario PC party) signed a leased with the 407 consortium for $3.107 Billion (1999 dollars). The lease runs for 99 years.
- The portion between the Freeman Interchange (km 0 of the 407) and Highway 403 at Oakville (exit 24) was unbuilt at the time, and was indeed intended to become Highway 403. It was included in the lease, and opened as part of Highway 407 in 2001.
- The pricing is based on the market, and the market is quite good for the company. Based on their annual results, since 2001 it has cost road users $8.5 Billion (unadjusted for inflation). This has generated a cumulative $1.45 Billion (unadjusted) in profit for the company, with nary a cent going going into provincial coffers.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 26, 2016, 09:33:24 AM
Highway 7 is a limited-access highway from somewhere to Bayview, and then it has the idiotic bus lanes.
I think the 407 was constructed as a bypass of the 401.

The Viva Rapidway...or shall we say Snailway.

Long before Rob Ford came out of the woodwork, I was an opponent of these so called LRT/BRT plans in which the transit vehicle runs in the median mainly because of the serious alterations to roadway, and the little benefit it provides (possibly could be more of a curse than a help, I'll get to that later)

I went to a Toronto City Hall meeting back in 2007, where they had the people from the RATP (the Paris equivalent of the TTC) to push the concept of LRT. At this meeting, Joe Mihevic, the councillor who championed the St Clair project had the nerve to say I didn't know what the hell I was talking about, it seems everyone says that to me, but I'm digressing.


The initial portion of the Hwy 7 Rapidway was from the 404 to about Bayview, and I'm sure you remember how Hwy 7 looked in this stretch prior to the construction of the rapidway. Most intersections used protected-permissive left turn situations, you know, the 4 signal heads with the green/yellow arrow. As well, most, if not all intersections had RIGHT TURN LANES from Highway 7.

When the Rapidway was constructed, a bike lane was added to the roadway, while the right turn lanes were ELIMINATED. What this does, it turns the right lane into an option lane which allows for straight and right movements, and you know as well as I do, you can't make a right turn at full speed. Thus we have just two actual through lanes instead of the three we had before. If pedestrians are crossing this street, which there aren't many in suburbia, that will effectively stop flow in the right lane until the pedestrian clears the intersection.

As for left turns, every single intersection now has to have fully protected left turns for two reasons. The first reason has to do with line of sight, as now with the wider intersection, it's more difficult to see traffic coming the other way safely. The second reason is the conflict we have with the transit vehicle if a permissive left turn were allowed.

In all situations where a transit Right-Of-Way is used in Ontario, that is the Highway 7 rapidway, and the streetcar situations on the Queensway, St. Clair, and Spadina, the fully protected movement happens at the beginning of the cycle, what is known as a leading left. Because of this leading left, even if the normal straight traffic faces a green, the transit signal will have to face to a red during this time. This usually lasts about 15-20 seconds, and think about 15-20 seconds being added at every light you catch, which will usually always happen. You can see that there is almost zero benefit to the transit vehicle versus the status quo which existed before in most cases. In fact, it's possible that it now takes longer to complete the route than before, as some studies on Spadina have suggested.

I have to run now, but if you want me to post more on this topic I will.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 26, 2016, 01:20:35 PM
At this meeting, Joe Mihevic, the councillor who championed the St Clair project had the nerve to say I didn't know what the hell I was talking about, it seems everyone says that to me, but I'm digressing.
I think that's code for "we don't want to listen to your opinion because you're outside the operating paradigm/group-think".  At least, that's been the conclusion I've been developing based on my observation on just about every debate and controversy going on these days in all of society.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 26, 2016, 01:44:52 PM
As for left turns, every single intersection now has to have fully protected left turns for two reasons. The first reason has to do with line of sight, as now with the wider intersection, it's more difficult to see traffic coming the other way safely. The second reason is the conflict we have with the transit vehicle if a permissive left turn were allowed.

If Canada used the flashing yellow arrow, you could show a red arrow when a train passes through, and use the flashing yellow arrow at all other times (this is partly the reason for the development of the FYA -- part time signals). The same effect could be achieved by using LED "no left turn" displays that would only light up when a train passes through, but I'm not sure it would be as effective.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 26, 2016, 03:24:53 PM
As for left turns, every single intersection now has to have fully protected left turns for two reasons. The first reason has to do with line of sight, as now with the wider intersection, it's more difficult to see traffic coming the other way safely. The second reason is the conflict we have with the transit vehicle if a permissive left turn were allowed.

If Canada used the flashing yellow arrow, you could show a red arrow when a train passes through, and use the flashing yellow arrow at all other times (this is partly the reason for the development of the FYA -- part time signals). The same effect could be achieved by using LED "no left turn" displays that would only light up when a train passes through, but I'm not sure it would be as effective.

The issue here is with line of sight as I pointed out, you can't safely see oncoming traffic far enough to allow for a permissive-protected left turn. So a FYA wouldn't matter in this situation.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 26, 2016, 06:07:44 PM
As for left turns, every single intersection now has to have fully protected left turns for two reasons. The first reason has to do with line of sight, as now with the wider intersection, it's more difficult to see traffic coming the other way safely. The second reason is the conflict we have with the transit vehicle if a permissive left turn were allowed.

If Canada used the flashing yellow arrow, you could show a red arrow when a train passes through, and use the flashing yellow arrow at all other times (this is partly the reason for the development of the FYA -- part time signals). The same effect could be achieved by using LED "no left turn" displays that would only light up when a train passes through, but I'm not sure it would be as effective.

The issue here is with line of sight as I pointed out, you can't safely see oncoming traffic far enough to allow for a permissive-protected left turn. So a FYA wouldn't matter in this situation.

As long as you pull forward, the sight/distance is exactly the same as with a narrow median. Then again, we're not talking about big ass walls around the railway path. This stretch of light rail in Seattle (below) runs in a median. Granted, the signals are protected lefts (more due to SDOT's traffic control department not being very innovative), but the sight/distance isn't an issue here at all. I can see several hundred feet in the other direction, and this photo isn't even taken from the left turn lane.

(http://i.imgur.com/ls4gXkI.png)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on August 26, 2016, 10:49:24 PM
yes, but at most intersections on the bus lane stretch of hwy 7, there are huge bus stops that block people's views...

How Hwy 7 looked like without bus lanes: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8498285,-79.3583813,3a,82.9y,43.88h,78.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCKU5gMcr9OP5FnwmkOIJcA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DCKU5gMcr9OP5FnwmkOIJcA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D61.21748%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

And with:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8497102,-79.3582872,3a,21.1y,51.67h,88.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQAgTpGuhVCO0HFN_FksCbA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DQAgTpGuhVCO0HFN_FksCbA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D79.090263%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656



Honestly thought, I missed the permissive left times of that stretch of Hwy 7...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 26, 2016, 11:06:36 PM
yes, but at most intersections on the bus lane stretch of hwy 7, there are huge bus stops that block people's views...

Busways are a stickier situation, IMO. I'd imagine that the buses run much more frequently than a light-rail line would, to the point where a protected-only turn might be preferable, so that the light didn't keep switching between protected and permissive every time a bus arrived.

Regardless, I still don't think the sight lines are that bad. Like I said before, as long as you pull forward, the view is still plenty good.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 27, 2016, 02:02:22 PM
Maybe in the direction shown in the link, but in the other direction, the view is blocked by the bus stop.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 27, 2016, 07:24:35 PM
Maybe in the direction shown in the link, but in the other direction, the view is blocked by the bus stop.

Hmm, doing more thought on this topic regarding "line of sight", I've noticed that it's not always consistent, regardless, this kind of phasing cannot use a FYA no matter what and I'll get to why later on when I address jakeroot.

My initial thought regarded Lake Shore Boulevard, the first three intersections east of the Humber River have SINGLE LANE fully protected lefts, here is the intersection at Lake Shore/Ellis for instance, that because such a wide median, one cannot make a left turn safely in a permissive phase so thus a fully protected left had to be implemented:

https://goo.gl/maps/JREA2VFNTs62 (https://goo.gl/maps/JREA2VFNTs62)
-And for the record, this intersection is one of the few where a LAGGING LEFT movement happens in Ontario, since this is a T intersection, a lagging left cannot cause left turning traffic to be caught in a yellow trap, so I assumed line of sight is the issue why a fully protected left is used here rather than a permissive-protected left


Similarly, in this intersection close to me in Brampton which I have discussed on another thread, although both sides have a single left turn lane, the traffic on EB Queen wishing to turn left faces a FULLY PROTECTED left turn, while the traffic on WB Queen wishing to turn left faces a PROTECTED-PERMISSIVE left turn. Similarly, I used to think that this happens because traffic coming up the hill approaching the intersection appears blind to those wishing to turn left. Perhaps this is the case, I haven't read all through OTM Book 12 in detail to know the exact specifications of when a fully protected left turn is a must.


But yet the question remains, why are turns allowed (although not in AM Rush or PM Rush) FROM University Avenue to Elm St. I mean this median looks about as wide as the one on Lake Shore, yet a left turn is allowed here, despite it being fairly dangerous in my opinion:

https://goo.gl/maps/etgBjmS7Jb52 (https://goo.gl/maps/etgBjmS7Jb52)
I mean, line of sight aside, look at the turning conflict, generally if you watch this intersection, you'll find drivers "criss-crossing" each other as they wait to left turn as you can see this minivan doing. This is potentially dangerous, yet you are allowed to turn here.

https://goo.gl/maps/8MCn75k27wR2 (https://goo.gl/maps/8MCn75k27wR2)
Similarly, as we can see, turning TO University, how are you supposed to left turn properly in this situation, you can't wait before the white line here, it's impossible, people drive all the way to turning point roughly halfway through this intersection if they want to turn left on University, again drivers will inevitably crisscross which is potentially dangerous.


The question I wonder, since Ontario gloats about having the safest roads in North America, why are these whacko movements to/from University (and to a lesser extent, some left movements onto Spadina) bur yet that Lake Shore intersection I showed earlier doesn't allow for any permissive turn?

NOW REPLYING TO JAKEROOT ABOUT FYA

There is one basic reason why you can't use a FYA situation here as well, line of sight aside.

YOU WILL ESSENTIALLY CREATE A VARIATION OF THE YELLOW TRAP!!!

Imagine that we used FYAs for a second and try to imagine this scenario:

I enter Hwy 7/Valleymede wanting to turn left and the signal is a FYA. Oncoming traffic on Hwy 7 is heavy and I cannot turn left, my FYA signal changes into a solid yellow arrow as a bus is approaching this intersection, this creates a yellow trap as oncoming traffic will still have a green and I am now stuck in the middle of the intersection potentially stopped on the path of the bus lane

I have seen some intersections with transit right-of-ways have permissive-protected lefts for regular vehicles, there is one at Queen's Quay/Dan Leckie shown below:

https://goo.gl/maps/MpnwvbPMre12 (https://goo.gl/maps/MpnwvbPMre12)

In this situation, the transit vehicle gets a phase all to itself, practically every other streetcar ROW intersection in Toronto uses the fully protected left to my knowledge.

One can easily see how this is disadvantageous to transit users, as they will have to potentially wait while traffic to the right of them gets to proceed through the green. It seems inefficient to me, to have a phase where the only thing that moves is a bus/streetcar, but that's my personal opinion.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 28, 2016, 01:15:35 AM
There is one basic reason why you can't use a FYA situation here as well, line of sight aside.

YOU WILL ESSENTIALLY CREATE A VARIATION OF THE YELLOW TRAP!!!...I enter Hwy 7/Valleymede wanting to turn left and the signal is a FYA. Oncoming traffic on Hwy 7 is heavy and I cannot turn left, my FYA signal changes into a solid yellow arrow as a bus is approaching this intersection, this creates a yellow trap as oncoming traffic will still have a green and I am now stuck in the middle of the intersection potentially stopped on the path of the bus lane

That's a very good point. The only fix I can think of (off-the-cuff) is to time the pass-through of the LRT/buses to the beginning of the through phase. The left turns would see a red arrow, switching to a flashing yellow arrow following the pass-through of the LRT or bus, followed by a protected green arrow if necessary.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 28, 2016, 01:21:00 AM
Maybe in the direction shown in the link, but in the other direction, the view is blocked by the bus stop.

From the stop line. But if you pull forward, the view is good.

https://goo.gl/maps/etgBjmS7Jb52 (https://goo.gl/maps/etgBjmS7Jb52)
I mean, line of sight aside, look at the turning conflict, generally if you watch this intersection, you'll find drivers "criss-crossing" each other as they wait to left turn as you can see this minivan doing. This is potentially dangerous, yet you are allowed to turn here.

A similar situation to that occurs at several Vancouver intersections. Some (read: very, very few) roads have wide medians, with fully permissive movements. In situations such as this, cars usually turn across each other's paths. Dangerous? I'm not so sure. It's more awkward than dangerous. Here's a video I filmed several months ago of this type of intersection (which is very similar to the intersection in your link -- please try and ignore some of the commentary; I was just rambling to fill time):

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 28, 2016, 04:52:57 PM
While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected. I would imagine the same goes for rail lines. We don't have much in the way of narrow medians but in general you won't find a permissive left turn from the right side of the median - it has to be cut in.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 28, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected.

Look across or yield to? If the former, wouldn't that eliminate any permissive left where there's two through lanes and a left turn lane?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on August 28, 2016, 10:10:36 PM
While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected.

Look across or yield to? If the former, wouldn't that eliminate any permissive left where there's two through lanes and a left turn lane?
Look across. If the left turn lane is opposing, you're okay. If the left turn lane is not opposing, you're not okay.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on August 29, 2016, 04:21:02 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew the names of the different segments of the Trans-Canada Highway in Ontario?  I have a partial list:

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 29, 2016, 05:58:51 PM
According to Travel Mapping: ON 66 is Kirkland Lake; ON 17/11 is Voyageur; ON 17A is Kenora; ON 11 is indeed Northern Ontario.

Travel Mapping using Kirkland Lake for QC 117/A-15 and Main for A-40/A-25/A-20/A-85/QC 185.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: mrsman on August 30, 2016, 06:17:53 AM
There is one basic reason why you can't use a FYA situation here as well, line of sight aside.

YOU WILL ESSENTIALLY CREATE A VARIATION OF THE YELLOW TRAP!!!...I enter Hwy 7/Valleymede wanting to turn left and the signal is a FYA. Oncoming traffic on Hwy 7 is heavy and I cannot turn left, my FYA signal changes into a solid yellow arrow as a bus is approaching this intersection, this creates a yellow trap as oncoming traffic will still have a green and I am now stuck in the middle of the intersection potentially stopped on the path of the bus lane

That's a very good point. The only fix I can think of (off-the-cuff) is to time the pass-through of the LRT/buses to the beginning of the through phase. The left turns would see a red arrow, switching to a flashing yellow arrow following the pass-through of the LRT or bus, followed by a protected green arrow if necessary.

And i guess that's part of the problem.  IF they are limited to only the top of the phase, buses will have to wait for the entire cycle if they even get delayed a little.  So to prioritize the mode of transit, left turners are subject to waiting the full phase and are stuck to a protected only signal.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: oscar on August 30, 2016, 07:43:08 AM
According to Travel Mapping: ON 66 is Kirkland Lake; ON 17/11 is Voyageur; ON 17A is Kenora; ON 11 is indeed Northern Ontario.

Travel Mapping using Kirkland Lake for QC 117/A-15 and Main for A-40/A-25/A-20/A-85/QC 185.

TM, and its predecessor Clinched Highway Mapping, generally use city names to distinguish between different route segments within a province. No attempt to follow official names.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on August 30, 2016, 09:37:36 AM
I was wondering if anyone knew the names of the different segments of the Trans-Canada Highway in Ontario?  I have a partial list:

  • Hwy 17 (Nipagon-Sault Ste Marie) - Lake Superior Route
  • Hwy 17 (North Bay-east) - Ottawa Valley Route
  • Hwy 69/400 - Georgian Bay Route
  • Hwy 7/12 - Central Ontario Route
  • Hwy 11 (North Bay - Nigagon) - Northern Ontario Route (?)
  • Hwy 66 - ???
  • [Quebec] Hwy 15/117 - Laurentian Route (?)
  • Others?

Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 30, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
There is one basic reason why you can't use a FYA situation here as well, line of sight aside.

YOU WILL ESSENTIALLY CREATE A VARIATION OF THE YELLOW TRAP!!!...I enter Hwy 7/Valleymede wanting to turn left and the signal is a FYA. Oncoming traffic on Hwy 7 is heavy and I cannot turn left, my FYA signal changes into a solid yellow arrow as a bus is approaching this intersection, this creates a yellow trap as oncoming traffic will still have a green and I am now stuck in the middle of the intersection potentially stopped on the path of the bus lane

That's a very good point. The only fix I can think of (off-the-cuff) is to time the pass-through of the LRT/buses to the beginning of the through phase. The left turns would see a red arrow, switching to a flashing yellow arrow following the pass-through of the LRT or bus, followed by a protected green arrow if necessary.

And i guess that's part of the problem.  IF they are limited to only the top of the phase, buses will have to wait for the entire cycle if they even get delayed a little.  So to prioritize the mode of transit, left turners are subject to waiting the full phase and are stuck to a protected only signal.

After doing a bit of research, it turns out that the NYC subway runs at a maximum of one train every two minutes, and one of Brisbane's busways operates a maximum of one bus every 12 seconds. So, there are clearly times when the permissive phase wouldn't work. But that's the beauty of the FYA: they can operate based on time-of-day (TOD). During peak hour, the permissive left turn would be skipped to allow trains or buses to continue unimpeded. But during other times, when the headways are much longer, the permissive phase could be enabled.

The only real issue (and this is a big one) is that trains and buses run in both directions, so a even if a bus or train only arrived two minutes ago, the station in the opposite direction may have not had a bus in 15 or 20 minutes (meaning that a bus or train's arrival is imminent). While I'm not certain how the rest of the country's at-grade rail or busways work, the intersections around here that have light rail crossings are 100% timed. Consequently, the signals could be timed to enable a permissive phase.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 30, 2016, 12:58:59 PM
While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected. I would imagine the same goes for rail lines. We don't have much in the way of narrow medians but in general you won't find a permissive left turn from the right side of the median - it has to be cut in.

Hang on, while I'll be honest and say I haven't spent much time in NJ, let me get one thing straight, are you saying that if there's for instance one opposing left turn lane and two regular lanes at an intersection that the intersection will need to be protected?

At what level of protection, protected-permissive or fully protected? This policy doesn't seem to make much sense if it is fully protected.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on August 30, 2016, 01:08:28 PM
No.  A four lane road with opposing left turn lanes would not need to be protected.
http://goo.gl/XJshcP

But any road that's wider than that (or if the left turns weren't opposing on a four lane road), the left turns would be protected.
http://goo.gl/G8nNjw

The left turns on Hwy 7 through central York Region were generally all fully protected when the MTO controlled the intersections on that section of road as well.  It wasn't until York Region assumed control of the road that they allowed permissive left turns along Hwy 7.

You can see the former intersection configuration at Bathurst Street in this 2006 photo:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_7_images/7_cl_299_east_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 30, 2016, 01:32:30 PM
According to Travel Mapping: ON 66 is Kirkland Lake; ON 17/11 is Voyageur; ON 17A is Kenora; ON 11 is indeed Northern Ontario.

Travel Mapping using Kirkland Lake for QC 117/A-15 and Main for A-40/A-25/A-20/A-85/QC 185.

TM, and its predecessor Clinched Highway Mapping, generally use city names to distinguish between different route segments within a province. No attempt to follow official names.
I'm guessing that's how the ones for Quebec were done, but the Ontario ones appear to use the official names.  The other official names are used as such in Travel Mapping; wouldn't they otherwise be things like "Ottawa", "Peterborough", "Fort Frances", etc.?

I was wondering if anyone knew the names of the different segments of the Trans-Canada Highway in Ontario?  I have a partial list:

  • Hwy 17 (Nipagon-Sault Ste Marie) - Lake Superior Route
  • Hwy 17 (North Bay-east) - Ottawa Valley Route
  • Hwy 69/400 - Georgian Bay Route
  • Hwy 7/12 - Central Ontario Route
  • Hwy 11 (North Bay - Nigagon) - Northern Ontario Route (?)
  • Hwy 66 - ???
  • [Quebec] Hwy 15/117 - Laurentian Route (?)
  • Others?

Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!
That would violate Ontario's numbering scheme on ON 417, since the 400 series number denotes freeways, and if only done over ON 17, would probably be more confusing.  Plus Ontario and Quebec don't put the number in the shield anyways.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 30, 2016, 02:06:45 PM
While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected. I would imagine the same goes for rail lines. We don't have much in the way of narrow medians but in general you won't find a permissive left turn from the right side of the median - it has to be cut in.

Hang on, while I'll be honest and say I haven't spent much time in NJ, let me get one thing straight, are you saying that if there's for instance one opposing left turn lane and two regular lanes at an intersection that the intersection will need to be protected?

 :-D I just asked this question, almost verbatim:

While we're talking about permissive lefts - New Jersey's policy is it can only cross two lanes of oncoming traffic. If you have to look across 3 or more lanes, including left-turn or right-turn bays, the turn has to be protected.

Look across or yield to? If the former, wouldn't that eliminate any permissive left where there's two through lanes and a left turn lane?

As AsphaltPlanet already said (as did Steve on the last page), the answer is "yes" if the left turn lanes are not directly opposite each other. If they are directly opposite, permissive is okay.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on August 30, 2016, 07:09:10 PM
Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!

Agreed!  But I don't think it'll ever happen.

That would violate Ontario's numbering scheme on ON 417, since the 400 series number denotes freeways, and if only done over ON 17, would probably be more confusing.  Plus Ontario and Quebec don't put the number in the shield anyways.

There are freeways/expressways that are outside the 400 series; Hwys 7/8 in Kitchener and Hwy 11 between Barrie and North Bay come to mind, so it's not impossible to have Hwys 17 & 417 combined into on route.  With Hwy 17 being downloaded east of Ottawa, Hwy 17 & 417 operate as a continuous route so I don't think it would be confusing.

As a bit of trivia, I was reading on Wikipedia that BC 97 is the longest continually numbered route within a single province at 2,081 km; if Hwy 417 and 17 were combined (and for the sake of argument, became TCH 1 or ON 1), it would be 2,151 km.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 30, 2016, 11:12:01 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew the names of the different segments of the Trans-Canada Highway in Ontario?  I have a partial list:

  • Hwy 17 (Nipagon-Sault Ste Marie) - Lake Superior Route
  • Hwy 17 (North Bay-east) - Ottawa Valley Route
  • Hwy 69/400 - Georgian Bay Route
  • Hwy 7/12 - Central Ontario Route
  • Hwy 11 (North Bay - Nigagon) - Northern Ontario Route (?)
  • Hwy 66 - ???
  • [Quebec] Hwy 15/117 - Laurentian Route (?)
  • Others?

Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!

Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!

Agreed!  But I don't think it'll ever happen.

+1. But yeah, it will never happen. If nothing else, Ontario I think should do more to sign it on BGS's (even if it makes the signs larger). The federal government should have enacted a rule about this (numbering and shield), similarly to how borders must be bilingual. The shield design should have also been standardized, like the Interstates in the US. Seriously, I've seen at least three or four different shield types for the TCH on the Prairies.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on August 31, 2016, 01:33:44 AM
+1. But yeah, it will never happen. If nothing else, Ontario I think should do more to sign it on BGS's (even if it makes the signs larger). The federal government should have enacted a rule about this (numbering and shield), similarly to how borders must be bilingual. The shield design should have also been standardized, like the Interstates in the US. Seriously, I've seen at least three or four different shield types for the TCH on the Prairies.

Are you talking about the actual TCH route shield or freeway signage in terms of variations on the prairies?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: vdeane on August 31, 2016, 01:39:33 PM
I think it's interesting how people in the western provinces are all "the TCH must be one continually signed number, it's criminal Ottawa hasn't forced the provinces to renumber routes to have it all be TCH 1", and the eastern provinces are all "meh, who cares about the TCH".
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 31, 2016, 10:14:52 PM
I think it's interesting how people in the western provinces are all "the TCH must be one continually signed number, it's criminal Ottawa hasn't forced the provinces to renumber routes to have it all be TCH 1", and the eastern provinces are all "meh, who cares about the TCH".

I think it's something to do with the fact that eastern Canada tends to have a more organized and advanced road system with freeways. I used to live in Ontario (Ottawa and Hamilton) so I can see both sides.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: MisterSG1 on August 31, 2016, 10:34:19 PM
I think it's interesting how people in the western provinces are all "the TCH must be one continually signed number, it's criminal Ottawa hasn't forced the provinces to renumber routes to have it all be TCH 1", and the eastern provinces are all "meh, who cares about the TCH".

I think it's something to do with the fact that eastern Canada tends to have a more organized and advanced road system with freeways. I used to live in Ontario (Ottawa and Hamilton) so I can see both sides.

It's very funny in my opinion, the so called TCH, I live in the GTA (the most populated region of Canada) and it's easily a 90 minute drive before I even see any portion of the TCH. (Hwy 12 in Orillia appears to be the closest portion of the TCH to me)

The TCH in my opinion in Ontario is treated as a glorified route, like the Niagara Region "Wine Route". Except the Wine Route is signed much better.  :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on September 01, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
According to Travel Mapping: ON 66 is Kirkland Lake; ON 17/11 is Voyageur; ON 17A is Kenora; ON 11 is indeed Northern Ontario.

Travel Mapping using Kirkland Lake for QC 117/A-15 and Main for A-40/A-25/A-20/A-85/QC 185.

TM, and its predecessor Clinched Highway Mapping, generally use city names to distinguish between different route segments within a province. No attempt to follow official names.
I'm guessing that's how the ones for Quebec were done, but the Ontario ones appear to use the official names.  The other official names are used as such in Travel Mapping; wouldn't they otherwise be things like "Ottawa", "Peterborough", "Fort Frances", etc.?

I was wondering if anyone knew the names of the different segments of the Trans-Canada Highway in Ontario?  I have a partial list:

  • Hwy 17 (Nipagon-Sault Ste Marie) - Lake Superior Route
  • Hwy 17 (North Bay-east) - Ottawa Valley Route
  • Hwy 69/400 - Georgian Bay Route
  • Hwy 7/12 - Central Ontario Route
  • Hwy 11 (North Bay - Nigagon) - Northern Ontario Route (?)
  • Hwy 66 - ???
  • [Quebec] Hwy 15/117 - Laurentian Route (?)
  • Others?

Best to have ON-17/417 as TCH-1!
That would violate Ontario's numbering scheme on ON 417, since the 400 series number denotes freeways, and if only done over ON 17, would probably be more confusing.  Plus Ontario and Quebec don't put the number in the shield anyways.

But being the TCH, there could and should be an exemption from the standard.

And since Ontario didn't even have an existing Highway 1, and the TCH mainline was built from scratch through the province, there's no excuse not to use 1.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 01, 2016, 03:07:55 PM
But being the TCH, there could and should be an exemption from the standard.

There is nothing explicitly precluding a renumbering of Highways 17, 17A, and 417 to Highway 1. Except...

And since Ontario didn't even have an existing Highway 1, and the TCH mainline was built from scratch through the province, there's no excuse not to use 1.

Except that:


Add in the fact that doing the same renumbering to TCH-1 in Quebec, New Bruswick, and Nova Scotia and you have a whole pile of money being spent on something that doesn't have any actual benefit at all.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on September 01, 2016, 08:58:09 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the TCH often signed quite poorly in Ontario outside of the expressway system? How many people don't even know that the TCH is the TCH? That would make renumbering even more counter-productive.

Additionally, how many people even use the TCH unless they want to avoid crossing international borders? It's faster to cut through the States if going from the GTA to Winnipeg or west and the same if going from Montreal to west of Calgary.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Rothman on September 02, 2016, 08:35:12 AM
Additionally, how many people even use the TCH unless they want to avoid crossing international borders? It's faster to cut through the States if going from the GTA to Winnipeg or west and the same if going from Montreal to west of Calgary.

But... (https://goo.gl/maps/e3DMHsMhKF82)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 02, 2016, 10:34:13 AM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the TCH often signed quite poorly in Ontario outside of the expressway system? How many people don't even know that the TCH is the TCH? That would make renumbering even more counter-productive.

It's not well signed at all on any route, just added on assurance markers, not junctions. A handful of junction signs were added in 2014 by me unilaterally in Simcoe County, just because I figured it couldn't hurt and I could tack them onto a larger project. But overall it cannot actually be followed.


Additionally, how many people even use the TCH unless they want to avoid crossing international borders? It's faster to cut through the States if going from the GTA to Winnipeg or west and the same if going from Montreal to west of Calgary.

The number of people who actually traverse Ontario via the TCH is pretty well next to zero. Perishable goods and tourists are just about the only thing that goes via truck instead of rail. So we may have upwards of DOZENS of people on a single day!   :rolleyes:

People have been able to find their way without problem for the last several decades. It ain't broke, don't break it.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: noelbotevera on September 02, 2016, 10:41:06 AM
TCH does pass through the GTA, if you count Peterborough as part of the GTA...(eh, Niagara Falls is counted as part of the GTA, and that's upwards of an hour in no traffic).

If you really want a GTA branch of the TCH, I would route it as Highway 400 to Cookstown, Highway 89 to Highway 10 in Shelburne, then Highway 10/410 to Highway 401 in Mississauga.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 02, 2016, 10:52:00 AM
neither Peterborough or Niagara Falls are considered part of the GTA.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on September 02, 2016, 11:54:01 AM
I think it's interesting how people in the western provinces are all "the TCH must be one continually signed number, it's criminal Ottawa hasn't forced the provinces to renumber routes to have it all be TCH 1", and the eastern provinces are all "meh, who cares about the TCH".

It’s interesting.  An observation I have regarding Ontario is that, signage aside, in Northern Ontario every major road is signed as the Trans-Canada, while in Southern Ontario the Trans-Canada is largely relegated to second-tier highways and irrelevant.  I wonder if the old Interprovincial Highway 2 between Windsor and Halifax was maintained and incorporated into a branch of the Trans-Canada (specificially in Ontario) might have changed things?

  • It was not built from scratch. A lot of it incorporated pre-existing provincial highways that had long been known by another number

The same could be said for most other provinces.  Alberta renumbered their section from Hwy 2 to Hwy 1 and I think other prairie provinces did so as well.

Quote
  • In terms of use there is not a dedicated "mainline" route. Highway 17-17A-417 is the shortest route, by Hwy 11 is often preferred due to its more forgiving terrain and winter weather. What little "through" traffic there is often uses 11 more than 17.

Even if Hwy 11 is the preferred route due to its distance and terrain, would that ever change Hwy 17 was upgraded due to it going through more major population centres?  Hwy 17/417 is the only route that goes from Manitoba to Quebec.  If Hwy 17 was divided, would Hwy 11 still be used as a cross-country route?

Quote
  • The people who actually use the road and live and work along it refer to it by the number, not as the TCH. Changing the designation is counter to its actual use
  • Renumbering 2000+ km of highway is not a cheap proposition. In terms of changing the signage, regulations, titles, compensating businesses for expenses of changing their address, and other administrative and physical costs, is well into the millions of dollars. For something that, per point 3, actually makes navigation worse.

Add in the fact that doing the same renumbering to TCH-1 in Quebec, New Bruswick, and Nova Scotia and you have a whole pile of money being spent on something that doesn't have any actual benefit at all.

In terms of cost to the general public, how would renumbering Hwy 17 to TCH 1 compare to downloading? I can see that downloading saved MTO money, but I'm wondering if the general public still have to absorb the costs listed above.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 02, 2016, 01:40:33 PM
Quote
  • In terms of use there is not a dedicated "mainline" route. Highway 17-17A-417 is the shortest route, by Hwy 11 is often preferred due to its more forgiving terrain and winter weather. What little "through" traffic there is often uses 11 more than 17.

Even if Hwy 11 is the preferred route due to its distance and terrain, would that ever change Hwy 17 was upgraded due to it going through more major population centres?  Hwy 17/417 is the only route that goes from Manitoba to Quebec.  If Hwy 17 was divided, would Hwy 11 still be used as a cross-country route?

Certainly lessening the grades and improving the highway would make 17 more attractive between North Bay and Nipigon in the summer months. But it still would get blasted by winter storms off of Lake Superior constantly. Time-sensitive travel would still be attracted to the more reliable Hwy 11.

In terms of cost to the general public, how would renumbering Hwy 17 to TCH 1 compare to downloading? I can see that downloading saved MTO money, but I'm wondering if the general public still have to absorb the costs listed above.

In terms of the administrative costs of absorbing the highways, the initial gross cost was likely on par. But since then the operating cost of a municipal roadway vs a provincial highway is far lower (2-5 times less per lane-km). In terms of construction though, the benefit is far more apparent. Under provincial law, MTO can only get developers to cover the cost of improvements directly associated with the development. Whereas municipalities can both require improvements, and they collect development fees. So if you have a road like, say, Highway 7 in Peel Region, the province would only be able to get developers to pay for piecemeal improvements, while the balance is paid for out of taxpayers' pockets. Whereas with it as a municipal road, the improvements are all associated with the development along that corridor. So the net benefit to the province as a whole is definitely there.*


* - Regionally there are some places that did not benefit as much, and to that end increased payments from the province and/or re-assumption of services may be desirable. But again, we're talking about the net benefit here.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on September 02, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the TCH often signed quite poorly in Ontario outside of the expressway system? How many people don't even know that the TCH is the TCH? That would make renumbering even more counter-productive.

It's not well signed at all on any route, just added on assurance markers, not junctions. A handful of junction signs were added in 2014 by me unilaterally in Simcoe County, just because I figured it couldn't hurt and I could tack them onto a larger project. But overall it cannot actually be followed.


Additionally, how many people even use the TCH unless they want to avoid crossing international borders? It's faster to cut through the States if going from the GTA to Winnipeg or west and the same if going from Montreal to west of Calgary.

The number of people who actually traverse Ontario via the TCH is pretty well next to zero. Perishable goods and tourists are just about the only thing that goes via truck instead of rail. So we may have upwards of DOZENS of people on a single day!   :rolleyes:

People have been able to find their way without problem for the last several decades. It ain't broke, don't break it.

That's what I thought and the quick look on GSV before I posted last night only showed signs in Simcoe County and on 417. Whole bunch of nothing along the TCH in Ontario.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: rickmastfan67 on September 03, 2016, 05:11:18 AM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the TCH often signed quite poorly in Ontario outside of the expressway system? How many people don't even know that the TCH is the TCH? That would make renumbering even more counter-productive.

It's not well signed at all on any route, just added on assurance markers, not junctions. A handful of junction signs were added in 2014 by me unilaterally in Simcoe County, just because I figured it couldn't hurt and I could tack them onto a larger project. But overall it cannot actually be followed.

So then, any update when {3} will get a few shields once again between the Ambassador Bridge & the E. C. Row Expressway? :P  Or has it since StreetView was last there?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on September 03, 2016, 02:07:16 PM
  • Renumbering 2000+ km of highway is not a cheap proposition. In terms of changing the signage, regulations, titles, compensating businesses for expenses of changing their address, and other administrative and physical costs, is well into the millions of dollars. For something that, per point 3, actually makes navigation worse.

In terms of cost to the general public, how would renumbering Hwy 17 to TCH 1 compare to downloading? I can see that downloading saved MTO money, but I'm wondering if the general public still have to absorb the costs listed above.

In terms of the administrative costs of absorbing the highways, the initial gross cost was likely on par. But since then the operating cost of a municipal roadway vs a provincial highway is far lower (2-5 times less per lane-km). In terms of construction though, the benefit is far more apparent. Under provincial law, MTO can only get developers to cover the cost of improvements directly associated with the development. Whereas municipalities can both require improvements, and they collect development fees. So if you have a road like, say, Highway 7 in Peel Region, the province would only be able to get developers to pay for piecemeal improvements, while the balance is paid for out of taxpayers' pockets. Whereas with it as a municipal road, the improvements are all associated with the development along that corridor. So the net benefit to the province as a whole is definitely there.*


* - Regionally there are some places that did not benefit as much, and to that end increased payments from the province and/or re-assumption of services may be desirable. But again, we're talking about the net benefit here.

Sorry, I should clarify my question regarding cost.  You had indicated the renumbering a highway incurs costs in terms of signage, regulations, titles, address changes, etc.  My question is weren't those same costs incurred when downloading occurred?  I guess the benefit was lowered operating costs as outlined above, as opposed to nothing fundamentally changing if Hwy 17/417 was simply renumbered.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on September 04, 2016, 11:40:42 PM
Heading home from Ottawa today, I finally took the new 407 extension between Harmony Rd and the 412, so I thought I would share some photos I took. Click on the images for full-size versions.

(http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fssWoro.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EMEOXlj.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dwDhdHA.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lsKoh3o.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7Q7AR8U.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xynu4Gg.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rnpWNdU.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P069YO2.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0rSeb6X.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vnpo7ec.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NLHhWE2.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UIDd88g.jpg)

-------------

Also, I was disappointed with the current setup coming from Durham RR 3. I didn't see signage saying to continue straight onto Columbus Rd E and then make a left onto Harmony Rd to reach the 407. Also, the short stretch of Columbus Rd isn't the best for handling the extra traffic, though thankfully it will only be temporary.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 06, 2016, 12:05:46 PM
Sorry, I should clarify my question regarding cost.  You had indicated the renumbering a highway incurs costs in terms of signage, regulations, titles, address changes, etc.  My question is weren't those same costs incurred when downloading occurred?  I guess the benefit was lowered operating costs as outlined above, as opposed to nothing fundamentally changing if Hwy 17/417 was simply renumbered.

Ontario has 13 million residents, I'm sure we could afford the cost of switching the signs, but I think the point that cbeach was trying to make was about poor return return on investment.

As was indicated above, provincial highway downloading was done as a measure to remove provincial highway expenditures from the provincial balance sheet.  It was done with little thought on how that would effect transferring the roads, and thereby changing the signs, would have on navigation for the traveling public.  While the sky hasn't fallen since the highways were downloaded, navigation wasn't improved by the transfer of highways.  In many cases, navigation is worse than it was before, as primary route numbers may have changed, and may no longer be consistent at regional boundaries, and there is now less of a hierarchy to the numbering system than there was before.

I'm sure the sky wouldn't fall if Hwy 17 was renumbered to Hwy 1 either, but it wouldn't improve navigation for anyone along the route, and could be confusing for people who choose to call the highway by its former number, or for mapping companies that aren't up to date.  As you know, there is only one road between Ontario and Manitoba, so it's number isn't of great importance as there are no other roads that it could be confused with.  If we were setting up a new route numbering system today, without having a nearly century old system ingrained in our collective minds I'd definitely agree with the merits of numbering 17 as 1.  But as you know, this isn't the case.  Renumbering Hwy 17 to Hwy 1 would look great on a map, but would offer no improvement to the route numbering system for any kind of trip along the highway.  Renumbering it so it looks better on a map would be quite frankly a waste of money.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 06, 2016, 12:09:58 PM
Also, I was disappointed with the current setup coming from Durham RR 3. I didn't see signage saying to continue straight onto Columbus Rd E and then make a left onto Harmony Rd to reach the 407. Also, the short stretch of Columbus Rd isn't the best for handling the extra traffic, though thankfully it will only be temporary.

Agreed.  Neither Columbus or Harmony north of the 407 aren't awesome as connector roads.  There was quite a backup on Columbus Road approaching the four-way stop at Harmony yesterday afternoon.

They haven't posted any trailblazer signs for either the 412 or the 407 yet.  (There actually still aren't reassurance signs along the 412 yet either).  I'm curious to see what the end up looking like, given the uniqueness of the colour of the 407's route shield.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 06, 2016, 02:13:09 PM
Sorry, I should clarify my question regarding cost.  You had indicated the renumbering a highway incurs costs in terms of signage, regulations, titles, address changes, etc.  My question is weren't those same costs incurred when downloading occurred?  I guess the benefit was lowered operating costs as outlined above, as opposed to nothing fundamentally changing if Hwy 17/417 was simply renumbered.

AsphaltPlanet basically said the same, but yes, the administrative costs of downloading were the same. I'd even argue higher, given how slap-dash it was done and the pile of further work it created (of course, that's what happens when political expediency trumps technical prudence). Again, long term the costs to operate and make improvements to the downloaded roads is a net savings.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on September 06, 2016, 07:12:00 PM
Also, I was disappointed with the current setup coming from Durham RR 3. I didn't see signage saying to continue straight onto Columbus Rd E and then make a left onto Harmony Rd to reach the 407. Also, the short stretch of Columbus Rd isn't the best for handling the extra traffic, though thankfully it will only be temporary.

Agreed.  Neither Columbus or Harmony north of the 407 aren't awesome as connector roads.  There was quite a backup on Columbus Road approaching the four-way stop at Harmony yesterday afternoon.

They haven't posted any trailblazer signs for either the 412 or the 407 yet.  (There actually still aren't reassurance signs along the 412 yet either).  I'm curious to see what the end up looking like, given the uniqueness of the colour of the 407's route shield.
A lot of white signs for the 407 extension and the 412 are completely blank except for the shield. I assume those are for toll information?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 06, 2016, 08:16:47 PM
^ The contractor who built that section of highway through the 412 interchange installed 407 ETR style route markers.  They were removed a few days before the highway was opened to traffic.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on September 06, 2016, 11:38:14 PM
^ The contractor who built that section of highway through the 412 interchange installed 407 ETR style route markers.  They were removed a few days before the highway was opened to traffic.

Are you sure this is the same thing Alps is talking about? I noticed these large white signs on the 407 EB which were almost all blank except for the ON 407 shield (I wish I got a photo, but I was driving WB). I thought the 407 ETR markers were a different problem.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 07, 2016, 07:03:56 AM
No, I did misunderstand.

Those large white signs detailed the rolling information for the tollways, about large vehicles requiring a visible transponder and about the requirement for rear licence plates to be visible.  They say effectively the same thing as the white signs do before entering the ETR section.  They were blanked shortly before the highway was opened to traffic.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on September 07, 2016, 05:22:19 PM
An article on snow fencing/vegetation for the 402:

http://www.theobserver.ca/2016/08/30/ontario-transportation-minister-steven-del-duca-expected-to-visit-lambton-later-this-fall-ministry-spokesperson-says (http://www.theobserver.ca/2016/08/30/ontario-transportation-minister-steven-del-duca-expected-to-visit-lambton-later-this-fall-ministry-spokesperson-says)

Quote
Ontario Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca expected to visit Lambton later this fall, ministry spokesperson says

Lambton-Kent-Middlesex MPP Monte McNaughton is calling on Ontario's Ministry of Transportation to consider installing snow fencing along wind-swept sections of Highway 402.

In a letter sent to Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca last week, McNaughton suggested more coniferous trees be planted along the highway to create a natural snow barrier in the long term, but in the meantime, snow fencing could be erected temporarily near the highway's fence line.

“I just thought it was a sensible thing to advocate for at this time of year,” he said Tuesday. “This is giving the Ministry of Transportation ample opportunity to do what I think is very much a common sense approach, and that it is to construct snow fencing along areas of the 402 between London and Sarnia to stop the tragedies we've been seeing over the last number of years.”

Lambton County politicians have been calling for improvements to a stretch of Highway 402 – from Forest Road west to Mandaumin Road – following a series of deadly winter pileups over the last few years.

Some of those crashes have been attributed to white-out driving conditions.

Over the last few months, the Ontario government has been beefing up its winter highway maintenance efforts in response to an eyebrow-raising auditor-general's report released last year.

That report found Ontario drivers were put at a greater risk on provincial highways between 2009 and 2014 following the launch of a new cost-cutting highway winter maintenance program.

Under that program, private-sector contractors took more time to clear major highways after storms, patrolled roads less often and used fewer pieces of equipment, according to the report.

Ontario's Ministry of Transportation released an action plan last summer to improve winter maintenance along provincial highways, as well as better update drivers on current road conditions.

In February, ministry officials expanded the Track My Plow website to cover provincial highways in Sarnia-Lambton, Chatham-Kent, Windsor-Essex and part of Elgin County.

Drivers are now able to go online to track the locations of GPS-equipped snowplows during the winter months before they decide whether to head out on provincial highways.

In an email Tuesday, ministry spokesperson Emmilia Kuisma said 2,600 new and replacement trees have also been planted along the Highway 402 corridor this year.

Plantings have been focused on areas prone to drifting snow and where there are gaps in existing wind breaks, she added. Some of those locations include between Mandaumin and Forest roads, and Forest and Centre roads.

While the ministry has considered temporary snow fencing along the highway, Kuisma said the project would require fencing to be installed at an appropriate setback with the permission of a “willing landowner.”

“MTO has found vegetation to be more effective than fencing to reduce the effects of drifting snow, hence the focus on tree planting along the 402 corridor,” she wrote in an email.

In addition to tree plantings, Kuisma said new winter hazard signs have been installed along the highway. The province has also expanded its anti-icing liquid incentive program, meaning contractors will be increasing the use of the liquid as a preventive measure before winter storms.

When asked about Del Duca's promised visit to the area – one he pledged a few months back – Kuisma said Del Duca will be visiting later this fall.

“I think they're listening,” said Plympton-Wyoming Mayor Lonny Napper, who has met several times with ministry staff on the issue.

He recently met again with ministry officials at the Association of Municipalities of Ontario conference this month about the stretch of Highway 402 that runs through his municipality.

“They came up and showed us what they're doing,” Napper said, noting he was shown a chart of all the highway tree-planting projects.

Ministry officials also promptly followed up with a complaint about weeds along the highway, he said, and last winter followed through on pre-treating the roads more aggressively before storms.

“As far as the road goes, they're pre-wetting it, and we seem to have a good dialogue with them.”
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Alps on September 07, 2016, 07:03:04 PM
No, I did misunderstand.

Those large white signs detailed the rolling information for the tollways, about large vehicles requiring a visible transponder and about the requirement for rear licence plates to be visible.  They say effectively the same thing as the white signs do before entering the ETR section.  They were blanked shortly before the highway was opened to traffic.
So I would have had to be paying attention to the signs before the free section. :-D
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on September 08, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/trans-canada-highway/ontario-raising-fee-for-vehicle-sticker-renewal-for-sixth-year/article31536444/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/trans-canada-highway/ontario-raising-fee-for-vehicle-sticker-renewal-for-sixth-year/article31536444/)

Quote
Ontario raising vehicle sticker renewal fee, has almost doubled since 2011

For the sixth year in a row, the Ontario government is raising the fee for renewing vehicle validation stickers.

As of Sept. 1, renewal stickers in southern Ontario will cost $120 for the year, up from $108 currently. In northern Ontario, the fee rises to $60 from $54.

While a $12 increase may not seem hefty, the renewal price has almost doubled since 2011.

Sept. 1, 2011 - $74
Sept. 1, 2012 - $82
Sept. 1, 2013 - $90
Sept. 1, 2014 - $98
Sept. 1, 2015 - $108
Sept. 1, 2016 - $120
Defending the increase, the government says roads and bridges require more funds for maintenance.

“Gradual fee increases for driver and vehicle services are critical to help maintain the safe highway infrastructure that people and businesses rely on,” says Bob Nichols, Ontario Ministry of Transportation (MTO) spokesperson, while noting that Ontario's roads are among the safest in North America. “These investments keep Ontario highways and bridges in good repair, reduce congestion, improve safety and promote the economy.”

The money from sticker renewal fees goes into general revenues, which support all government investment, including transportation infrastructure.

“Many fees, including those for driver and vehicle licences, do not allow the government to fully recover the cost of delivering services or products,” says Nichols. “These increases will help the government recover more of these costs.”

Ontario has been increasing highway infrastructure spending since 2003. The province spent $1.03-billion in 2003/2004, $1.46-billion in 2006/2007, and $2.7-billion for 2016/2017.

From 1997 until 2012 the sticker renewal fees were constant at $74 for southern Ontario, $37 for northern Ontario.

Nichols says the cost to provide driver and vehicle services in 2015/2016 was about $2-billion, and the fee increases over the years will help recover these costs.

Ontario has about 11.7 million vehicles registered, of which 7.9 million weigh less than 4,500 kilograms. This means the increase will generate more than $140-million.

Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia have public insurance and the annual fee is included in an insurance fee.

Nova Scotia rates are the same as last year at $143.30 for a two-year renewal on a vehicle that weighs less than 1,000 kilograms. The price for a vehicle weighing between 1,000 and 1,500 kilograms is $176.90. For reference a Honda Civic weighs about 1,200 kilograms. In P.E.I., rates also didn’t jump staying at $100 for the annual registration fee. In New Brunswick, the fee went up $4 to $61 for a vehicle weighing less than 1,000 kilograms. The price goes up every 200 kilograms. The price jumped in Alberta to $84.85 from $75.

The Ontario government says the fees will remain fixed until September of 2018. Premier Kathleen Wynne has confirmed that the next election will be held in the spring of 2018.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: andrepoiy on September 11, 2016, 12:33:17 PM
Along the 401 near the 412 I noticed they put on the VMS "Sign Testing in Progress", and along that section I noticed some strange signs... (including the blank white signs)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: 7/8 on September 11, 2016, 12:41:19 PM
Along the 401 near the 412 I noticed they put on the VMS "Sign Testing in Progress", and along that section I noticed some strange signs... (including the blank white signs)

I saw this on the new 407 extension as well. I'm guessing they have to do this for new VMS's before putting them to good use?

(http://i.imgur.com/lhQxTgT.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lhQxTgT.jpg)
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: kalvado on September 14, 2016, 06:17:12 AM
Maybe I am going to ask a question which was discussed zillion times by now... Please don't kick me too hard!
But do I get it right that there is pretty much a single 2-lane road which links east and west Canada? I am referring to 17 near Thunder Bay. Looks like I90/I94 in US is the best bypass if goind, say from Winnipeg or points west to Toronto. How does that work overall? Are there any plans or reasons to change that?..
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 14, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
Maybe I am going to ask a question which was discussed zillion times by now... Please don't kick me too hard!
But do I get it right that there is pretty much a single 2-lane road which links east and west Canada? I am referring to 17 near Thunder Bay. Looks like I90/I94 in US is the best bypass if goind, say from Winnipeg or points west to Toronto. How does that work overall? Are there any plans or reasons to change that?..

Basically there are two places in NW Ontario where there is only a 2-lane highway providing east-west connection. Those are Hwy 11/17 northeast of Thunder Bay as you mentioned, and Hwy 17 east of the Ontario-Manitoba border.

Work is underway to twin 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon to provide some redundancy, and twinning easterly from Manitoba has not yet begun but is scheduled for completion in 2020.

The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: kalvado on September 14, 2016, 09:28:01 AM
The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
What is the reason for low traffic? Is there not enough trade going on between QC/ON and MB/AB etc? Or things go by rail/air? Through US? Or I totally miss something?
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 14, 2016, 09:36:57 AM
The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
What is the reason for low traffic? Is there not enough trade going on between QC/ON and MB/AB etc? Or things go by rail/air? Through US? Or I totally miss something?

Basically, the distances are vast and the population is low. Aside from just in time delivery, it is usually more economical to ship by rail or lake freighter. Most of the traffic on 11 and 17 is intraprovincial, travelling to or between the few population centres that do exist.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: kalvado on September 15, 2016, 10:39:08 AM
The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
What is the reason for low traffic? Is there not enough trade going on between QC/ON and MB/AB etc? Or things go by rail/air? Through US? Or I totally miss something?

Basically, the distances are vast and the population is low. Aside from just in time delivery, it is usually more economical to ship by rail or lake freighter. Most of the traffic on 11 and 17 is intraprovincial, travelling to or between the few population centres that do exist.

Looks like  lake freight is the big part I was missing, thank you! Given non-existent Erie canal activity in NY, I was a bit surprised to see upgrade plans for locks on the lakes...
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Transportfan on September 15, 2016, 05:05:53 PM
The Erie Canal is too small for ships, and I think the "plans" for enlarging the Seaway locks are decades old and rather vague. 
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: compdude787 on September 15, 2016, 09:39:28 PM
Given that there's a long distance between really big cities in Western Ontario, I'm really not surprised that the major highway is only a two lane road.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 26, 2016, 10:26:58 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen (though I'm sure there's very few ladies reading this), I have my only update for an Ontario road project probably for awhile (at least a year if not more):

In early September, I took a trip through Northwestern Ontario from the Manitoba border to just east of Nipigon (for obvious reasons). Thus, I have recorded some amateur footage of the 11/17 twinning projects as well as the Nipigon River Bridge, which we joked would fall down when we crossed it. Thankfully, it didn't  :-D

From Eldorado Beach Rd to ON 587 (the new alignment of ON 587 is not shown, but is complete):

From west of ON 628 to just west of Nipigon (I wasn't even aware of this project, so I whipped out the closest thing that could record, which was my phone. Terrible quality, but you can see what's going on):

The Nipigon River Bridge and eastern approach (the western approach is completely paved and done, but isn't used yet due to the fact the second span isn't done yet):


I was really lucky and glad to get out this summer and get these. The Regina Bypass in Saskatchewan is the only other major project within 10 hours of my house, and I know it's probably about 2 days to get up to Nipigon for you guys in southern Ontario.

If anyone's wondering, I used Da Vinci Resolve 12.5 (much better than Moviemaker and it's free too). Also, if you guys have any tips on improvements, please let me know. I doubt I will be recording much in the future, but getting some feedback is always welcome.

Finally, you may post this on other forums if you like.

Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 27, 2016, 07:40:59 PM
They have really moved on the stretch of Hwy 11/17 east of Nelson Road.  I was last out there in 2014, and at that time, no work had yet commenced on work on that section of roadway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 28, 2016, 12:03:11 AM
They have really moved on the stretch of Hwy 11/17 east of Nelson Road.  I was last out there in 2014, and at that time, no work had yet commenced on work on that section of roadway.

Yeah, and we were already on the new alignment (the old road is visible in the video). I'm not sure if they're planning on using part of the old highway, or constructing a new one, but it looks they're on time to hopefully finish by the end of next year if they keep moving at a good pace.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 28, 2016, 07:30:05 AM
^ Looked to me like they are just updating the old road.  From my observations, the MTO tends to use the opportunity to replace culverts and what not on the old road when they twin a highway.  Off the top of my head too, I believe the new road is being built to a 120km/h design speed, while the old road probably was only built to 110.  From the looks of things, the MTO may be making the necessary adjustments to the old road to upgrade it's design speed as well.

I am somewhat surprised that they aren't more advanced on the third tower for the southern half of the new Nipigon River bridge.  I'd have figured that would have been more advanced by now.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: J N Winkler on September 28, 2016, 10:27:12 AM
I was actually on Hwy. 17 between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie, including the sections being twinned, probably just a few days before SignGeek101.  I noticed that in most cases the new carriageway was being placed directly on top of crushed rock embankments, with no apparent attempt to provide soil cover up to the back edges of the shoulders, and I wondered if that had to do with the severe winters.

There is also special signing connected to Terry Fox that I wish I had stopped to photograph.  There is a major Lake Superior overlook dedicated to him just east of Thunder Bay that includes restrooms and a tourist information center, but there is also a sign for Mile 3,339 which I have looked for in StreetView without success since I don't have an exact latitude and longitude.  Most of the Terry Fox signs use a symbol showing a runner from the front, emerging out of a circle, which makes it less than obvious that one of the legs is artificial.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: Brandon on September 28, 2016, 03:12:25 PM
The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
What is the reason for low traffic? Is there not enough trade going on between QC/ON and MB/AB etc? Or things go by rail/air? Through US? Or I totally miss something?

Basically, the distances are vast and the population is low. Aside from just in time delivery, it is usually more economical to ship by rail or lake freighter. Most of the traffic on 11 and 17 is intraprovincial, travelling to or between the few population centres that do exist.

Looks like  lake freight is the big part I was missing, thank you! Given non-existent Erie canal activity in NY, I was a bit surprised to see upgrade plans for locks on the lakes...

There's a lot of shipping between cities on the Lakes.  Chicago and Detroit, for example, are destinations for iron ore mined in the Mesabi and Marquette Ranges, with the former shipped out of Duluth.  Then we do get salties that come in/go out the Seaway.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: cl94 on September 28, 2016, 04:17:45 PM
The reason why there isn't a more substantial road comes down to the simple fact that it's the middle of nowhere and there's next to no traffic on those roads.
What is the reason for low traffic? Is there not enough trade going on between QC/ON and MB/AB etc? Or things go by rail/air? Through US? Or I totally miss something?

Basically, the distances are vast and the population is low. Aside from just in time delivery, it is usually more economical to ship by rail or lake freighter. Most of the traffic on 11 and 17 is intraprovincial, travelling to or between the few population centres that do exist.

Looks like  lake freight is the big part I was missing, thank you! Given non-existent Erie canal activity in NY, I was a bit surprised to see upgrade plans for locks on the lakes...

There's a lot of shipping between cities on the Lakes.  Chicago and Detroit, for example, are destinations for iron ore mined in the Mesabi and Marquette Ranges, with the former shipped out of Duluth.  Then we do get salties that come in/go out the Seaway.

That and the Erie Canal became irrelevant with the opening of the St Lawrence Seaway. Lake freight traffic is quite substantial.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 28, 2016, 09:49:28 PM
I was actually on Hwy. 17 between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie, including the sections being twinned, probably just a few days before SignGeek101.  I noticed that in most cases the new carriageway was being placed directly on top of crushed rock embankments, with no apparent attempt to provide soil cover up to the back edges of the shoulders, and I wondered if that had to do with the severe winters.

I think this generally has to do with the geological conditions of much of northern Ontario.  Along the northshore of both Lake Superior and Lake Huron, there is shallow bedrock, and very little clay on the topsoil that does exist.  Many sections of both Hwy 11 and Hwy 69 are also built on blast rock.

While it does work for highway construction, the lack of a soil cover can pose problems when transport trucks run off the road and spill either their liquid cargo, or fuel.  Because of the porous nature of the blast rock, recovery of the spilled fluid can pose problems.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: SignGeek101 on September 28, 2016, 10:49:49 PM
I am somewhat surprised that they aren't more advanced on the third tower for the southern half of the new Nipigon River bridge.  I'd have figured that would have been more advanced by now.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the failure last winter. Perhaps they were delayed quite a bit while the whole structure was checked by engineers (and maybe construction halted). Hopefully they still get done before the end of next year.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: J N Winkler on September 29, 2016, 02:38:09 PM
I think this generally has to do with the geological conditions of much of northern Ontario.  Along the northshore of both Lake Superior and Lake Huron, there is shallow bedrock, and very little clay on the topsoil that does exist.  Many sections of both Hwy 11 and Hwy 69 are also built on blast rock.

While it does work for highway construction, the lack of a soil cover can pose problems when transport trucks run off the road and spill either their liquid cargo, or fuel.  Because of the porous nature of the blast rock, recovery of the spilled fluid can pose problems.

I was actually wondering myself about this problem, as well as the possibility of subsidence due to meltwater percolating down, refreezing, and breaking larger stones into smaller ones that collectively take up less volume.

In regard to Terry Fox, I have found Mile 3,339 at last:

Mile 3,339 signs on Hwy. 17 (actual monument, and tourist inspecting it, just off north side of the road, to the left) (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5177325,-89.0178311,3a,75y,56.54h,85.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk2zd461RLEHOb2-rPxFBIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

The StreetView imagery dates from 2012, when this part of Hwy. 17 was still in the process of being twinned through the addition of a new carriageway on the north side (preliminary site clearance is evident as thinned forest cover on that side).  The 2012 signs have the runner-in-circle symbol on white and state explicitly that this site is where the Marathon of Hope ended.  I don't think the current signs carbon-copy them; I do remember clearly that they have the runner-in-circle on blue, and I think they were also square in format and said just "Mile 3,339."

MTO's plan to remove the wooden monument to the left (as part of the twinning works) evidently caused much heartache locally in 2011.  It was eventually donated to a museum to complement other Terry Fox memorabilia in its collection.  (Sources:  1 (http://www.northernontario.travel/thunder-bay/mileage-3339-adds-to-legend-of-terry-fox), 2 (https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/saving-mile-3339-388016), 3 (http://themuseum.ca/mile-marker-terry-fox%E2%80%99s-marathon-hope-added-terry-fox-running-heart-canada), 4 (https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC122QY_mile-3339?guid=666d2a12-b4b9-416c-b00e-0f6450afc4e6).)

There's a lot of shipping between cities on the Lakes.  Chicago and Detroit, for example, are destinations for iron ore mined in the Mesabi and Marquette Ranges, with the former shipped out of Duluth.  Then we do get salties that come in/go out the Seaway.

That and the Erie Canal became irrelevant with the opening of the St Lawrence Seaway. Lake freight traffic is quite substantial.

There is an exhibit panel at the Soo Locks visitor center in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, which gives the comparative unit energy costs of shipping loads by lake freighter, railroad, and highway.  I wish I had photographed it, but I recall that the cost by freighter was a small fraction of that by rail, which in turn is somewhat smaller than highway.

Lake Superior navigation shuts down from mid-January to late March, so I suspect rail freight picks up some of the demand for bulk transport during those months.  Most of the small towns on the north side of Lake Superior actually got their start as Canadian Pacific Railway towns--in 1930, there was no long-distance motorable road anywhere from about Harmony Beach (a few dozen miles north of Soo) to what is now Thunder Bay, and the last link of Hwy. 17 through Lake Superior Provincial Park was apparently also the final link of the Trans-Canada to be completed (works begun 1957, road opened September 1960).

The Soo Locks can handle lakers of up to 1000 feet, but I understand shipping companies now favor Seawaymax for new construction for flexibility.  The one ship I saw actually going through the locks (the Canadian-registered lake freighter Thunder Bay) is Seaway-capable.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on September 30, 2016, 09:15:18 AM
I think this generally has to do with the geological conditions of much of northern Ontario.  Along the northshore of both Lake Superior and Lake Huron, there is shallow bedrock, and very little clay on the topsoil that does exist.  Many sections of both Hwy 11 and Hwy 69 are also built on blast rock.

While it does work for highway construction, the lack of a soil cover can pose problems when transport trucks run off the road and spill either their liquid cargo, or fuel.  Because of the porous nature of the blast rock, recovery of the spilled fluid can pose problems.

I was actually wondering myself about this problem, as well as the possibility of subsidence due to meltwater percolating down, refreezing, and breaking larger stones into smaller ones that collectively take up less volume.

The Canadian Shield, and the blast rock it produces for highway construction are generally comprised of igneous rock such as granite.  Because the rock is so hard, I don't it is particularly susceptible from damage due to water infiltration into the road base.

Of much greater concern would probably be soils with low bearing pressure.  Northern Ontario has considerable deposits of muskeg, which is notoriously poor material for building things on.  Material such as this would have a much greater effect on highway settlement than freeze-thaw cycles within the blast rock.
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 06, 2016, 09:55:21 PM
A few new photos of the construction on Highway 400 at the Highway 9 interchange north of the GTA.  Construction is underway to widen the 400 through the Highway 9 interchange which has necessitated the replacement of the structure and interchange ramps.

Looking southerly along Highway 400 from the Carpool lot within the SW quadrant of the interchange.  Grading and some paving for the widened southbound platform has been completed.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Zoomed out northerly view from the Carpool lot towards the Highway 9 overpass.  Grading for the new northbound loop ramp is visible.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Close-up of the construction of the new structure.  At this point, only the central pier and abutments for the new bridge are visible.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southerly view at the southbound off-ramp to Highway 9 from the 400.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southbound advanced view approaching the Highway 9 interchange.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

View looking easterly along the Canal Bank Road towards the Highway 400 overpass.  These twin structures are being replaced as part of the Highway 9 construction project.
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on October 13, 2016, 11:09:02 AM
New signs for the Hwy 64 interchange on Hwy 69.  This interchange opened earlier this year:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_dv_167_north_Sep16.jpg)

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/69_dv_169_north_Sep16.jpg)

The full size versions are up on my website:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm
Title: Re: Ontario's Highways
Post by: haljackey on October 25, 2016, 02:28:55 PM
V