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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Weather => Topic started by: ET21 on November 07, 2013, 08:23:33 PM

Title: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: ET21 on November 07, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
(http://vortex.accuweather.com/adc2004/pub/includes/columns/newsstory/2013/650x366_11072034_haiyan-sat.jpg)

The largest typhoon ever is pummeling the Philippines as this is posted. Winds are 195 mph with gusts pushing 240 mph. Think of it as a 1,000 mile wide EF-4 to EF-5 tornado equivalent (with heavy rain and an extremely large storm surge to boot)  :wow:  :-o :-o :-o

Added the appropriate Hurricane message icon :nod: -Alex
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: 1 on November 07, 2013, 08:26:42 PM
Any color key?
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: ET21 on November 07, 2013, 08:32:54 PM
This is infrared, so it measures the temps of the cloud tops. Brighter colors, the taller the cloud or cloud deck is. Since most cyclones across the globe are warm-core systems (they're basically heat engines), they usually come out orange, red, and sometimes white on these satellite images. EDIT: This means that the cloud tops are quite cold

Haiyan is basically powerful across the entire storm, but note how brighter the red gets as you approach the eye. That mid-rim region and the eye wall itself is where you are getting the 195 mph winds

Here's an example of another infrared image of Haiyan with the scale for you :) The further right you go on the scale, the taller the clouds are
(http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/31W/imagery/rb_lalo-animated.gif)
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: wxfree on November 08, 2013, 01:35:14 PM
(http://vortex.accuweather.com/adc2004/pub/includes/columns/newsstory/2013/650x366_11072034_haiyan-sat.jpg)

That's a beautiful beast.  Tropical cyclones make for some of the best satellite images.  I remember John Hope on The Weather Channel pointing out a hurricane in the eye of which you could see the shadow cast by eye wall on the opposite eye wall on the visible imagery.  In another hurricane, you could briefly see the ocean when the satellite was looking straight down the eye.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: wxfree on November 08, 2013, 01:49:23 PM
Any color key?

In the color key in the animated sequence, what's being shown is temperature.  Colors on the right of the scale are coldest.  In order to get extreme cold you need two things: thick clouds that block the heat coming up from the surface, and high cloud tops, which are cold due to being very high in the atmosphere, where it's colder.  If you look at the first image, you can see the color intensity quickly drops (temperatures rise) in the eye.  That's where the clouds are thin and the heat from the ocean is being seen by the satellite.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: NE2 on November 08, 2013, 02:05:14 PM
That's a beautiful beast.
The Hiroshima mushroom cloud is much prettier.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: wxfree on November 08, 2013, 02:35:41 PM
That's a beautiful beast.
The Hiroshima mushroom cloud is much prettier.

I don't think I'd agree with that.  While both are beautiful as displays of the physical principles involved in their creation and evolution, I think there's a fundamental difference in that the cyclone is a creation of the earth, displaying the nature and behavior of the earth and universe: usually subtle and occasionally very violent, but always organized and with a purpose, while the mushroom cloud is a creation of man, expressing his madness.  On the other hand, I don't know that I'd consider man, a creation of the universe, to be inherently less organized or purposeful than the universe, but I think he's a much more concentrated form of the universe's subtlety and violence.  Because we don't fully understand the universe itself, with things all spread out and seemingly unrelated, even moreso seeing the same extreme disparities of behavior in such a concentrated form as a single entity or species makes that entity or species look chaotic.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on November 08, 2013, 02:57:29 PM
Jefferson Airplane wants their MTV video back.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Billy F 1988 on November 08, 2013, 06:03:20 PM
(http://vortex.accuweather.com/adc2004/pub/includes/columns/newsstory/2013/650x366_11072034_haiyan-sat.jpg)

The largest typhoon ever is pummeling the Philippines as this is posted. Winds are 195 mph with gusts pushing 240 mph. Think of it as a 1,000 mile wide EF-4 to EF-5 tornado equivalent (with heavy rain and an extremely large storm surge to boot)  :wow:  :-o :-o :-o

Added the appropriate Hurricane message icon :nod: -Alex

Holy shit! That thing looks like ten times Katrina! Let's pray this doesn't hit our neck of the woods! Let's also pray that the people in the Philippines have heeded the warnings and had gotten out of there as much as possible. I would not want to be down in an area where you get that big of a punch. When Andrew landed in '92, it was a 160+ CAT 4 hurricane. Katrina had a similar speed between 140 to 160 MPH, once considered a CAT 5 but then lowered when it made landfall, but still packed a wallop of a punch along the Louisiana coastline and in New Orleans in 2005. When Sandy made landfall last year, it was like Katrina, but then it merged with a north-east moving storm and clobbered the northeast U.S. Obviously here, and even in the loop I say the Philippines are getting clobbered heavily with that kind of motion, that kind of strength and speed. You'd have to guess that the millibar measures are somewhere in the ballpark of 930-920 MB, maybe the high 910's. If if's anything beyond that, boy, they'd better ready for a washout.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 08, 2013, 06:42:06 PM
Good evening, this is 630 News. I am Sammi Fernandez. Off to our top story: chaos in the Philippines as one of the largest and most powerful storms in history causes massive damage to the archipelago.

The typhoon Haiyan (海燕), also given the local designation Yolanda, made landfall at 4:30 am in the province of Eastern Samar on Friday with winds of up to 315 km/h and gusts of up to 380 km/h, causing flooding and cutting off communications in several provinces in the eastern Visayas region.

At least three people were killed and seven injured, according to a report released by the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council, but it is likely that there are more casualties. Thousands more are currently staying in emergency evacuation shelters across at least 25 provinces.

The storm has weakened significantly since entering the archipelago, now with maximum sustained winds of 175 km/h and gusts of up to 210 km/h. At 4:00 am PHT on Saturday, the center of the storm was located about 400 km west of San Jose, Occidental Mindoro province, and is now heading west towards Vietnam travelling at 41 km/h.

Haiyan is the second category 5 storm to hit the islands since Usagi (Odette) in September.

Also, do we seriously have a hurricane icon? >_>
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: flaroads on November 08, 2013, 09:51:33 PM
Also, do we seriously have a hurricane icon? >_>
Yes, I created it last year around the time of hurricane Issac.  :cool:
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CentralCAroadgeek on November 09, 2013, 01:39:22 AM
As a Filipino myself, this storm has hit me pretty close to home. I just hope everyone is alright over there and it would be a somewhat easy recovery.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: ET21 on November 11, 2013, 06:08:42 PM
Also, do we seriously have a hurricane icon? >_>
Yes, I created it last year around the time of hurricane Issac.  :cool:

 :-o If only I had looked through the icons.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Scott5114 on November 12, 2013, 04:20:08 AM
As a Filipino myself, this storm has hit me pretty close to home. I just hope everyone is alright over there and it would be a somewhat easy recovery.

Early reports are estimating at least 10,000 dead (with 1,700 confirmed dead).
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: kurumi on November 12, 2013, 11:16:02 AM
You can donate to Philippine Red Cross using Paypal here: http://www.redcross.org.ph/donate. Conversion right now is about 43 pesos to 1 USD. Paypal appears not to "Thomas Cook" you on the exchange which is a pleasant surprise.

(I have family over there as well... close relations are OK, but not sure about the more distant cousins of cousins yet)
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 12, 2013, 11:51:56 AM
My dad's cousin's family is inviting us over to Chicago for Christmas this year. We're supposed to have a Secret Santa-type thing, but because of what happened recently, they are contemplating the idea of instead donating our budget to the relief effort. We agreed, but we are still waiting on their decision.

US$1 = ₱43, C$1 = ₱42.

Anyone else here with relatives in the Philippines? :/ (I have family down there, but they're far enough north to only experience light rains, so they should be fine.)
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CentralCAroadgeek on November 12, 2013, 07:07:17 PM
I'm kinda the same about your last statement, Naga City, where a lot of my relatives live, apparently only got the rain and nothing really that bad.

But just go south to Visayas. That place got pretty beaten up...
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 12, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Update on the official death toll. 10,000 was an overestimation; official government reports have dialed it back to 1,774 1,833. Around 2,800 2,623 are injured, 84 missing, ~500,000 homeless.

Also, I just found this, a map of how strong the effect was in each province. PSWS is the Philippine Storm Warning Signal (http://www.pagasa.dost.gov.ph/genmet/psws.html), which quantifies the expected strength of the storm in the area, including wind speeds and an estimate of time before the storm arrives. (I honestly didn't know there even was a signal #4 until now.)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/YolandaPSWS.png/800px-YolandaPSWS.png)

A little geography lesson.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: realjd on November 12, 2013, 08:54:35 PM
You can donate to Philippine Red Cross using Paypal here: http://www.redcross.org.ph/donate. Conversion right now is about 43 pesos to 1 USD. Paypal appears not to "Thomas Cook" you on the exchange which is a pleasant surprise.

(I have family over there as well... close relations are OK, but not sure about the more distant cousins of cousins yet)

Donated. Thanks for the link! It felt weird typing a 4 digit number into a PayPal window...
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 12, 2013, 08:58:34 PM
It felt weird typing a 4 digit number into a PayPal window...

Am I missing something? What is this 4-digit number?

EDIT: An amount in ₱?
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Roadmaestro95 on November 12, 2013, 09:05:26 PM
Worst part about the Philippines right now is that they are getting soaked by tropical rains, which will not stop until Sunday, and CNN said it could impede efforts to help with aid and finding people. However, and although I'm not of any decent, I can understand how natural disasters affect one's home, but it has also shown me how much we cannot take for granted with what we have. Although Sandy was nothing compared to Haiyan, it still reminds me of how powerful Mother Nature can be, and that should never be forgotten.
I helped in the devastated areas with my dad in Long Beach and the Rockaways, and even close to where I live down in Mastic Beach, and I've seen devastation (to an extent). I know it is impossible for me to physically help the people in the Philippines right now, but if anybody does read this, please do donate money to the Red Cross, because they need as much aid as possible and it seems that this storm is not getting as much publicity and aid as previous natural disasters, such as the Haiti earthquake.
http://www.redcross.org/
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: realjd on November 12, 2013, 11:06:20 PM
It felt weird typing a 4 digit number into a PayPal window...

Am I missing something? What is this 4-digit number?

EDIT: An amount in ₱?

Yep. Since the exchange rate is 40-some pesos to the dollar, I donated over 1000 pesos. It just felt weird typing in a payment in the thousands since I'm used to dealing with currencies like the USD and the GBP.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: ET21 on November 13, 2013, 05:45:16 PM
Update on the official death toll. 10,000 was an overestimation

To back up this, NEVER trust the media within the first 24 hours with death numbers. They over-hype anything just to get ratings
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 13, 2013, 05:55:46 PM
Update on the official death toll. 10,000 was an overestimation

To back up this, NEVER trust the media within the first 24 hours with death numbers. They over-hype anything just to get ratings

This wasn't even from the media, this was from the government. I find it exponentially more embarrassing.

EDIT: I'm not getting sufficient data to determine the source of the 10,000 figure, but a news article says it was made by the government of Leyte province, and referred to the number of deaths only in that province. Also, death toll as of 7am PHT (6pm EST): 2344 dead, 3804 injured, 79 missing.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: agentsteel53 on November 13, 2013, 06:00:26 PM
yep, I remember the Moore OK tornado from May having the death toll jump from 2 to 93 to 51 in the span of about 2 hours.  I think it ended up being 23.

I also remember the report being "minor damage to I-35; ODOT to issue statement" at the exact time that, just behind the closed caption, the live feed was showing a two-mile-wide tornado bearing down on Moore. 

in conclusion, the media is run by idiots.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: roadman on November 13, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
yep, I remember the Moore OK tornado from May having the death toll jump from 2 to 93 to 51 in the span of about 2 hours.  I think it ended up being 23.

I also remember the report being "minor damage to I-35; ODOT to issue statement" at the exact time that, just behind the closed caption, the live feed was showing a two-mile-wide tornado bearing down on Moore. 

in conclusion, the media is run by idiots.
The media is suffering the same fate as retail corporations that force Christmas down our throats earlier and earlier every year - being run by mid-1980s MBA graduates that, through very poor teaching, believe one thing and one thing only - that "profits, profits, profits, profits are our sole reason for existence".

The sad part with the media is that they aren't even obligated to tell the truth - and can make up at least a dozen excuses when they get it totally wrong.

Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: NE2 on November 13, 2013, 07:20:56 PM
The sad part with the media is that they aren't even obligated to tell the truth - and can make up at least a dozen excuses when they get it totally wrong.
Because Bengoatse.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: roadman on November 13, 2013, 08:24:21 PM
The sad part with the media is that they aren't even obligated to tell the truth - and can make up at least a dozen excuses when they get it totally wrong.
Because Bengoatse.
That's the name of a journalist that covers events in Alanland - right?
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: NE2 on November 13, 2013, 08:58:47 PM
The sad part with the media is that they aren't even obligated to tell the truth - and can make up at least a dozen excuses when they get it totally wrong.
Because Bengoatse.
That's the name of a journalist that covers events in Alanland - right?
Yeah. He specializes on gaping holes in Alanlandian embassy security.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Brian556 on November 13, 2013, 11:41:12 PM
I have a newspaper printed just after Katrina. The headline reads "10,000 feared dead in New Orleans". Obviously, the number ended up being much lower. Six hundred something I think.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: KEK Inc. on November 14, 2013, 01:24:36 AM
I have relatives from Danao City (near Cebu City).  How fucked did Cebu get?  Cebu City seems to be south of the eye, but Danao City is actually north of the city. 
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2013, 02:21:11 PM
As a tropical cyclone tracker, I was really impressed with the power of typhoon Haiyan. However, I like to use 10 minute estimates for wind speeds instead of the 1 min both NHC and JTWC use, so I estimated the peak winds were "only" of 170 mph (275 km/h). By the way, the largest typhoon ever wasn't this one, the record holder is typhoon Tip of 1979.

PS: I started tracking these after... Hurricane Sandy.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Roadmaestro95 on November 15, 2013, 03:25:29 PM
PS: I started tracking these after... Hurricane Sandy.

I think almost everyone in the Tri-State does now...now we are all "disappointed" by this year's hurricane season because THEY (meaning every stinkin meteorologist on TWC) said to expect a "Sandy" per year.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2013, 04:48:25 PM
Actually I had been looking after tropical cyclones for a while before I started tracking them seriously. I got tired of hurricane Nadine earlier. And yup, Atlantic has had a quiet season this year, which means that the rest of the tropics would be very active, as it happened with four category 5 typhoons (Usagi, Francisco, Lekima and Haiyan) and cyclone Phailin in Indian ocean, also a cat 5. The Atlantic does exactly the opposite the rest of the tropics do: In 2010 Atlantic was very active while the rest were relatively calm.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: 1 on November 15, 2013, 05:01:48 PM
What makes this a typhoon and not a hurricane? Or a tycoon?
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
What makes this a typhoon and not a hurricane? Or a tycoon?

Location.  It is effectively, if in the Atlantic or eastern Pacific, a hurricane.  And a category 5 hurricane at that.  Western Pacific cyclones are typhoons, and Indian cyclones are just that, cyclones.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2013, 05:18:49 PM
Being on the Pacific West of the dateline. There have been hurricanes that crossed the dateline and became typhoons, most notably the first hurricane then typhoon Ioke in 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Ioke), which crossed the dateline while at category 5.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: wxfree on November 15, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
As a tropical cyclone tracker, I was really impressed with the power of typhoon Haiyan. However, I like to use 10 minute estimates for wind speeds instead of the 1 min both NHC and JTWC use, so I estimated the peak winds were "only" of 170 mph (275 km/h). By the way, the largest typhoon ever wasn't this one, the record holder is typhoon Tip of 1979.

PS: I started tracking these after... Hurricane Sandy.

According to Wikipedia, the Japanese estimated the ten-minute wind as 145 mph, while Tip had a maximum ten-minute wind of 160 mph.  The maximum one-minute wind was estimated at 195, compared to Tip's 190.  The medal goes to a different storm depending on which measure you use.  Haiyan was at its maximum intensity at landfall.  Tip was much weaker at landfall.

"Largest" isn't a good term to use.  The largest was Tip, nearly 1,400 miles wide.  Haiyan was smaller.  Tip's pressure was significantly lower.  If you picture a hole with a certain depth and width, a hole with a smaller diameter and similarly steep sides isn't as deep.  It's the steepness of the sides that generates wind.  Haiyan wasn't as deep, but was smaller and similarly steep.  Tip, being larger, had to have lower pressure to produce that kind of gradient.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: sammi on November 15, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
What makes this a typhoon and not a hurricane? Or a tycoon?

They are in fact the same phenomenon, so you can technically call Yolanda a hurricane. The difference (as has been pointed above) is the location, i.e. hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean, cyclones in the Indian, typhoons in the Pacific.

Also, the word typhoon comes from the Chinese word 台风 [tai2feng1], which as far as I know doesn't really mean anything other than 'typhoon'.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: empirestate on November 16, 2013, 01:26:01 AM
What makes this a typhoon and not a hurricane? Or a tycoon?

Location.  It is effectively, if in the Atlantic or eastern Pacific, a hurricane.

I have always understood them to be identical, but several definitions I've seen include qualifier words like "effectively", "virtually", "practically" and similar. Are there any actual differences—not mere tendencies, mind you—but qualities, say of a hurricane, that if it suddenly appeared in the western Pacific, it would not be termed a tyhpoon? And vice versa.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: english si on November 16, 2013, 06:33:43 AM
There's an issue of lack of knowledge. Straight after something, if 10k people are missing, then the death toll might be 10k. The phrasing I heard was all 'could reach 10k', not saying the 10k as fact.

Of course, the use of 10k would help with getting people/countries to give aid.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: wxfree on November 16, 2013, 04:43:27 PM
What makes this a typhoon and not a hurricane? Or a tycoon?

Location.  It is effectively, if in the Atlantic or eastern Pacific, a hurricane.

I have always understood them to be identical, but several definitions I've seen include qualifier words like "effectively", "virtually", "practically" and similar. Are there any actual differences—not mere tendencies, mind you—but qualities, say of a hurricane, that if it suddenly appeared in the western Pacific, it would not be termed a tyhpoon? And vice versa.

They're exactly the same thing.  Upon moving past the 180 meridian, a storm will be redesignated.  The generic term for all of them is "tropical cyclone."  In the Indian Ocean and in the Southern Hemisphere, they're called cyclones.  These also are the same thing.

Western Pacific storms tend to be the biggest, in part because the Pacific is bigger so storms have more time to grow.  I suspect there are other factors such as sea temperatures and wind patterns conducive to large and powerful storms there.  Hurricanes are classified on the Saffir-Simpson Scale, while typhoons are either typhoons or super typhoons.  A super typhoon is one with winds of at least 150 mph, equal to a category 5 or high-end 4.

Tropical cyclones may behave differently in different places, based on the prevailing environment, but they're all exactly the same species.  They're not "essentially" the same thing; they're exactly the same thing, living in different environments and given different names.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 16, 2013, 05:07:22 PM
By the way, any tropical cyclone can be classified in any scale. The Wikipedia has all cyclones listed with their Saffir-Simpson scale strenght along their basin's scale one, and during some time I tested the Australian scale with everything.

And now, spot the difference between a hurricane...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Hurricane_Ioke%2C_MODIS_image_on_August_24%2C_2006%2C_2155_UTC.jpg/600px-Hurricane_Ioke%2C_MODIS_image_on_August_24%2C_2006%2C_2155_UTC.jpg)

... and a typhoon:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Typhoon_Ioke_28_aug_2006_0130Z.jpg/600px-Typhoon_Ioke_28_aug_2006_0130Z.jpg)

:sombrero:

Actually they are the same cyclone: Ioke 2006.
Title: Re: Largest typhoon ever recorded (Typhoon Haiyan)
Post by: empirestate on November 16, 2013, 11:15:56 PM
Tropical cyclones may behave differently in different places, based on the prevailing environment, but they're all exactly the same species.  They're not "essentially" the same thing; they're exactly the same thing, living in different environments and given different names.

Such was my understanding. That's why I get so confused when those words creep in.