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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: webny99 on February 05, 2018, 08:58:06 PM

Title: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on February 05, 2018, 08:58:06 PM
What are some examples in your area?

NY 404 (Ridge Road) in Webster (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.2039677,-77.4920488/43.2105187,-77.4432644/@43.202543,-77.4789519,14.25z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-77.4648097!2d43.2078086!3s0x89d6ced230516db1:0xe801ea22da7a5612!1m0!3e0)
NY 286 (Atlantic Ave) in Penfield (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.1536643,-77.4943609/2892+Atlantic+Avenue,+Penfield,+NY/@43.1542453,-77.4900645,15z/data=!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6cc75eadd7687:0xeb81234c8ecf2a15!2m2!1d-77.468908!2d43.154825)
 NY 65 (Clover Street) in Pittsford (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/2433+Clover+St,+Rochester,+NY+14618/43.0901205,-77.5437006/@43.0992254,-77.548876,14.75z/data=!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6cab2d882b0d7:0x697b87d7ea81592a!2m2!1d-77.5476718!2d43.1098092!1m0)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: 1 on February 05, 2018, 09:08:36 PM
MA 125 immediately north of I-495 in Haverhill, MA.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: US 89 on February 05, 2018, 10:25:51 PM
US 6 from I-15 in Spanish Fork to I-70 at Green River. Yes, I know this was originally going to be I-70, but it probably doesn’t warrant an Interstate. It does need 4 lanes, and a few interchanges at high traffic intersections like US 89 would be very helpful.

In the Salt Lake City area, Redwood Rd (UT-68) has a couple two-lane sections that should be four, one north of the city and one in the south Salt Lake Valley. I think there’s currently a project going to widen the south section. Also, 1300 East should be 4 lanes due to the insane amounts of traffic on it at rush hour. It actually used to be 4 lanes, and then the city did a road diet, mostly due to pressures from bicycle groups.

US 189 should be four lanes all the way from Provo to Heber. There is still a two-lane portion near Deer Creek Reservoir.

Finally, although it would never happen due to topography and other environmental issues, both Cottonwood Canyons (UT-190 and 210) should be four lanes.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 05, 2018, 11:46:36 PM
CA 43 between 99 and 198 could use an upgrade.  The moderate traffic isnít so much the problem but the fog makes travel extremely dangerous in the winter.  41, 180, and 198 all have Expressway segments in fog prone areas with decent traffic counts.  41 from 198 to I-5 could use an upgrade as well. 
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Hurricane Rex on February 06, 2018, 01:51:35 AM
OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras).

EDIT: US 26 from Mt. Hood to Madras (coast just increased passing lanes).
US 101 Seaside to Astoria.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: pdx-wanderer on February 06, 2018, 02:38:56 AM
OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras)

US-26 all the way from the coast to Madras should be at least four.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: LM117 on February 06, 2018, 03:19:03 AM
NC-86 between Danville and Hillsborough. Hands down. I commute that road often and I always encounter a good deal of truck traffic, in addition to regular traffic. Between the truck traffic and the cars road raging and riding your ass if you aren't doing 70+mph on a 55mph highway, NC-86 can be a pretty scary ride. I've seen people try to pass 3 or 4 cars/trucks at once and narrowly avoid getting creamed head-on. I dread the days that I have to drive on NC-86. I go to Durham and eastern NC often and I don't have any other better alternative route.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: freebrickproductions on February 06, 2018, 03:23:02 AM
Would a three lane road (one lane each way + center turn lane) count?
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on February 06, 2018, 08:41:48 AM
Would a three lane road (one lane each way + center turn lane) count?

If you think it needs five, then sure, I don't see why not.



Note: I have added some examples in my own area to the OP.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ftballfan on February 06, 2018, 09:00:14 AM
US-12 from Saline to I-94
M-59 from Michigan Ave (Howell) to US-23
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: bzakharin on February 06, 2018, 12:42:11 PM
US 206 between I-295 and I-287, not like it'll ever happen, though.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: gonealookin on February 06, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
The weekend ski visitors will tell you it's CA 89 from I-80 in Truckee down to CA 28 in Tahoe City.  The opportunity to do it would have been at the same time I-80 over the Sierra was being fast-tracked for the 1960 Winter Olympics at Squaw Valley, but I don't suppose they envisoned the long-term need for an upgraded spur to Lake Tahoe at that time.

The notion of another Winter Olympics bid for the Tahoe region has been floated as recently as a few years ago, but any transportation improvements would focus on mass transit.  There's a desire to sharply reduce the number of cars coming into the Tahoe Basin over the next couple decades.  This is also why US 50 over the Sierra, which would be another candidate for the list, will never get added capacity, just incremental safety improvements.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: sparker on February 06, 2018, 04:09:05 PM
Some Bay-Area-To-Affordable-Housing corridors that could definitely use a couple of additional lanes for safety's sake if nothing else:

(1) The remaining 2-lane portions of Vasco Road between Livermore (I-580) and Brentwood (CA 4) in Alameda and Contra Costa counties.

(2) CA 132 between I-5 and Modesto (CA 99).  Lots of commuter traffic trying to avoid I-205 around Tracy, which also carries Manteca and Stockton commuters.

(3) CA 12 from Suisun City to Rio Vista.  Way too much regular traffic for the highway alignment (much of which hasn't seen substantial improvement for 40+ years).

(4) The all-time obvious:  CA 152 between US 101 and CA 156.  Expressway would suffice; full freeway would be better. 

(5)  And (4)'s neighbor:  CA 25 from US 101 near Gilroy to Hollister.  Packed with commuter traffic M-F each week; and add to that wine-tasting tourists on weekends.  Recipe for disaster (although Caltrans did have the good sense to put a K-rail down the middle; you can't pass, but you're less likely to end up as a fatality!).
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: gonealookin on February 06, 2018, 08:07:01 PM
And, not local, but the California example I have to drive occasionally and hate most of all is US 395 from CA 58 at Kramer Junction down to I-15 in Hesperia.  Come on, California, make that a 4-lane expressway, as you have the entire mostly-empty stretch of US 395 from the CA 14 merge at Ridgecrest up to Lee Vining (except a few miles near Olancha).
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: jwolfer on February 06, 2018, 08:38:19 PM
US 206 between I-295 and I-287, not like it'll ever happen, though.
A lot of NJ 2 lanes should be at least 4. In Florida most NJ state roads would be 4 to 6 lanes.

A legacy of all the unbuilt freeways.

Just a few from examples

the rest of 70,72; 35 in Wall Twp; the southern portion of 206 from at ACE to Bordentown; US 9 in Ocean County north of 72 and in Atlantic City area ..

But this is in the fantasy realm




Z981

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: D-Dey65 on February 07, 2018, 11:44:34 AM
All non-four-lane segments of NY 111, NY 112, and Suffolk CR 16.

NY 25 from Suffolk CR 83 in Selden to Suffolk CR 58 in Calverton.

The entire Moriches Bypass (Suffolk CR 98).

Montauk Highway from Suffolk CR 98 in East Moriches to downtown Eastport.

I'm pretty sure I have a long list of roads that need more than two lanes.

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: kkt on February 07, 2018, 12:37:59 PM
(4) The all-time obvious:  CA 152 between US 101 and CA 156.  Expressway would suffice; full freeway would be better. 

Yes, it needs to be four lanes, but if Caltrans went to all the work to make a 4-lane road and did NOT make it a freeway they'd be stupid.  There's more than enough traffic to justify a freeway there.  Maybe even six lanes.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 07, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
(4) The all-time obvious:  CA 152 between US 101 and CA 156.  Expressway would suffice; full freeway would be better. 

Yes, it needs to be four lanes, but if Caltrans went to all the work to make a 4-lane road and did NOT make it a freeway they'd be stupid.  There's more than enough traffic to justify a freeway there.  Maybe even six lanes.

Canít believe I forgot about that one.  All the two-lane sections of 156 and 25 north of Hollister ought to be four lane as well. 
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Finrod on February 09, 2018, 01:58:19 AM
Hammond Drive in Sandy Springs (north Atlanta) between Glenridge and Roswell Road.  It goes through a hilly residential area and I've sen it backed up that entire length before.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: freebrickproductions on February 09, 2018, 02:08:45 AM
I'd say that just about any 3 lane road (and some two lane roads) in Madison, AL should be at least 4 or 5 lanes, though apparently any residents there are against widening many of these roads as they're afraid it'll cause the roads to gain a speed limit above 35 MPH...
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: intelati49 on February 09, 2018, 10:13:33 AM
Would a three lane road (one lane each way + center turn lane) count?

If you think it needs five, then sure, I don't see why not.



Note: I have added some examples in my own area to the OP.

MO-76 in Branson then...

The stretches of two/three lane are horrible at peak. (Think hour long delays.) On the Highest AADT for a two lane, it has a AADT of 20k.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cbeach40 on February 09, 2018, 10:45:04 AM
For Ontario, Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place. Would provide a better alternative to the 401 through Eastern Ontario.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: texaskdog on February 09, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
the street outside my apartment has been restriped one lane each way instead of two.  plus it has a busy RR track on it.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Eth on February 09, 2018, 12:30:33 PM
The bit of Covington Hwy (US 278) between Turner Hill Rd (GA 124) and Evans Mill Rd near Lithonia/Stonecrest. Mostly because there's pretty much always some traffic calamity on neighboring I-20 and this is the only reasonable alternate.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: fillup420 on February 09, 2018, 09:18:55 PM
NC 105 between Boone and Linville, NC. Its used as a truck route for US 221, so it would be nice to get around slow trucks.

Come to think of it, NC 105 is much faster and straighter than US 221 between Boone and Linville. 221 goes around through Blowing Rock while 105 goes straight to Boone. To top it off, 105 ends at 221 on both sides, so it would make too much sense to just sign 221 along the entirety of 105
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: HazMatt on February 09, 2018, 11:13:54 PM
NC 105 between Boone and Linville, NC. Its used as a truck route for US 221, so it would be nice to get around slow trucks.

Come to think of it, NC 105 is much faster and straighter than US 221 between Boone and Linville. 221 goes around through Blowing Rock while 105 goes straight to Boone. To top it off, 105 ends at 221 on both sides, so it would make too much sense to just sign 221 along the entirety of 105

Blowing Rock would throw a fit like they always do.

Around my area I'd say NC-54 through Morrisville; it's always backed up especially during rush hour.  NC-55 through Apex as well.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on February 09, 2018, 11:31:03 PM
VA-28 west of Manassas has recently become quite congested in peak hours, and discussions are underway concerning widening to 4 lanes divided.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: D-Dey65 on February 10, 2018, 10:44:03 PM
I just remembered another; William Floyd Parkway (Suffolk CR 46) south of the former toll plaza. Moreso now because "Uglybridges.com" has reported the Smiths Point Bridge as being in poor condition:

http://uglybridges.com/1386863

Of course they also erroneously called it the "Floyd Parkway" bridge.

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Revive 755 on February 11, 2018, 12:58:40 PM
Partial list for the Illinois portion of Chicagoland:

* US 12: End of the four lane section west of Fox Lake to the end of the freeway in Wisconsin
* US 20: West end of the Elgin Bypass to at least Plank Road.
* IL 31:  Fill in the gaps between IL 72 and IL 120
* US 45: End of the four lane near Washington Street to at least IL 173.  Also the diagonal section between IL 83 and IL 21
* IL 47:  End of the four lanes at the north side of Huntley to Charles Road on the north side of Woodstock.  Also the end of the four lane section north of Yorkville to IL 56
* IL 58:  End of the four lanes at Barrington Road to at least IL 59.
* IL 59:  End of the four lanes north of IL 72 to at least US 14 in Barrington, if not US 12
* IL 60/IL 83:  The whole joint stretch
* IL 62:  Fill the gap from IL 25 to IL 68
* IL 83:  South of IL 132 to IL 137
* IL 120:  Probably all of it in Lake County, but at the least fill the gap between US 45 and the end of the four lane west of Hunt Club Road
* IL 131:  At least IL 173 to the Wisconsin border
* IL 173:  IL 59 to at least I-94, if not all the way to IL 131
* Barrington Road:  Fill the gap from Mudhank Road to IL 62
* Palatine Road:  Between IL 62 and US 14
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: JREwing78 on February 11, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
US-127 south of Jackson, MI, then continuing along US-223 through Adrian to US-23.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: kendancy66 on February 11, 2018, 02:07:54 PM
CA 133 between CA 73 toll road and the current divided four lane in Laguna Beach.  There is room for it, but wont happen because cars would be able to go faster there.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I747

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Jmiles32 on February 11, 2018, 02:36:50 PM
VA-28 west of Manassas has recently become quite congested in peak hours, and discussions are underway concerning widening to 4 lanes divided.
VA-28 is currently undergoing a widening project from Bristow to Nokesville, are these the discussions you're talking about or will VA-28 be widened further into Fauquier County? Either way, VA-28 should be four lanes divided all the way to its southern terminus(US-15/US-29).

US-15 north of Leesburg and US-50 between Lenah and US-15 should also be four lanes divided.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on February 11, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
VA-28 west of Manassas has recently become quite congested in peak hours, and discussions are underway concerning widening to 4 lanes divided.
VA-28 is currently undergoing a widening project from Bristow to Nokesville, are these the discussions you're talking about or will VA-28 be widened further into Fauquier County? Either way, VA-28 should be four lanes divided all the way to its southern terminus(US-15/US-29).
US-15 north of Leesburg and US-50 between Lenah and US-15 should also be four lanes divided.

Agreed that VA-28 should be four lanes divided all the way to its southern terminus(US-15/US-29).

US-15 needs to be four lanes divided between I-66 and MD.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 11, 2018, 03:32:23 PM

US-15 needs to be four lanes divided between I-66 and MD.

IMO from U.S. 29 between Buckland and Gainesville in Prince William County, Virginia all the way to the half interchange with U.S. 340 between Jefferson and Frederick in Frederick County, Maryland, about 45 miles one-way.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: roadman65 on February 11, 2018, 03:48:42 PM
US 1 from Florida City to Key Largo.  Of course trying to get the environmentalists to allow it to take away over 20 feet of Everglades is like getting Cuomo to love Trump.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2018, 10:23:17 PM
US 1 from Florida City to Key Largo.  Of course trying to get the environmentalists to allow it to take away over 20 feet of Everglades is like getting Cuomo to love Trump.

If you want the ultimate flame war mention that to locals down in the Keys.  The further south you go towards Key West the more insistent they get that it would just bring more people to the Keys.  Safety isn't exactly a priority down in the Keys, it was kind of interesting to see the fatality counter go up through the year on Stock Island.  I want to say it got up to 18 one year which seemed excessively high for a 127 mile stretch of US 1 that never exceeds speeds of 55 MPH.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: andrepoiy on February 11, 2018, 11:05:25 PM
Dufferin Street from Major Mackenzie to Teston in Vaughan, ON.

Does get a bit crowded during rush hour.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: roadman65 on February 11, 2018, 11:07:30 PM
Well safety is the reason for the widening needed from FL City to the Jewfish Creek, as for many years people were impatient and passing unsafely as you would get those who believe in the automatic add 15 to whatever the posted speed limit is would be raged by the one doing 55 or under.  Because of this FDOT put the jersey barrier to prevent passing in two lane stretches making US 1 one of the few consistent divided two lane roads in the nation.

I'm sure many of those passing here are Monroe County residents who cannot wait to get home from their trip to the mainland who are the ones who are complaining about a widening that would potentially open the Keys for more tourists.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 11, 2018, 11:14:53 PM
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2018, 11:17:45 PM
Well safety is the reason for the widening needed from FL City to the Jewfish Creek, as for many years people were impatient and passing unsafely as you would get those who believe in the automatic add 15 to whatever the posted speed limit is would be raged by the one doing 55 or under.  Because of this FDOT put the jersey barrier to prevent passing in two lane stretches making US 1 one of the few consistent divided two lane roads in the nation.

I'm sure many of those passing here are Monroe County residents who cannot wait to get home from their trip to the mainland who are the ones who are complaining about a widening that would potentially open the Keys for more tourists.

Hence the reason that $1 dollar toll on Card Sound Road is worth every penny coming off of those islands. 
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ftballfan on February 11, 2018, 11:39:15 PM
US-127 south of Jackson, MI, then continuing along US-223 through Adrian to US-23.

US-223 has a surprisingly low AADT, especially NW of Adrian.

Some more roads that need four-laning in MI:
M-153 from Ford Rd west (it's four lanes from there west to M-14) to Canton Center Rd (M-153 between Beck and Canton Center has an AADT over 20K and it's still two lanes!) [Ann Arbor to Canton]
US-31 from M-137 to M-37 [Traverse City]
M-37 from M-113 to US-31 [Traverse City]
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: sparker on February 12, 2018, 01:22:45 AM
CA 133 between CA 73 toll road and the current divided four lane in Laguna Beach.  There is room for it, but wont happen because cars would be able to go faster there.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I747



Also, the California Coastal Commission -- functioning largely as where road projects near the coast go to die -- would hardly want to grant permission for any expansion of this facility, claiming there are enough multi-lane alternatives up and down the coast from downtown Laguna Beach.  In addition, there is really no space to widen CA 133 without considerable property acquisition -- which would be local political poison as well as a very costly proposition.  Widening Laguna Canyon is effectively a D.O.A. concept.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on February 12, 2018, 05:41:11 PM
Quote
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?

MnDOT uses (or at least used to use) a planning level estimate of 11,200.  That said, I've seen the value range anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 and several numbers in between.

Getting more technical, the main Highway Capacity Manual measurement for capacity on a 2-lane roadway ("time spent following") does not lend itself well to a general AADT threshold.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: kendancy66 on February 12, 2018, 07:25:01 PM
CA 133 between CA 73 toll road and the current divided four lane in Laguna Beach.  There is room for it, but wont happen because cars would be able to go faster there.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I747



Also, the California Coastal Commission -- functioning largely as where road projects near the coast go to die -- would hardly want to grant permission for any expansion of this facility, claiming there are enough multi-lane alternatives up and down the coast from downtown Laguna Beach.  In addition, there is really no space to widen CA 133 without considerable property acquisition -- which would be local political poison as well as a very costly proposition.  Widening Laguna Canyon is effectively a D.O.A. concept.
IMO the other east west alternatives are not that close by. Crown valley to PCH is too far south and other roads like mc arthur and newport coast  to PCH are too far north That is why CA 133 is so traffic clogged. Also there is space to widen the road and avoid most or all the businesses because they are only on the south side of the road

SAMSUNG-SGH-I747

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cl94 on February 12, 2018, 07:42:14 PM
US 9, NY 149, and US 4 from I-87 Exit 20 to the Vermont line is one of the most glaring ones in Upstate New York. I have seen long backups in both directions, especially during the summer. It's never gonna happen, as NY 149 can't be widened without an amendment to the state constitution if any of the necessary ROW within Adirondack Park lies on state land. This is a case where AADT doesn't say everything, as the AADTs are off-season. Summer counts on NY 149 just east of Warren CR 7 are generally in the 12-15,000 range, weekend counts on busy ski weekends are probably a little less. The US 9/NY 149 concurrency is upwards of 20,000 in the summer. All of these have relatively high truck percentages, as it is one of the main truck routes to western Vermont. The 149/7 count was 29% trucks.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: roadman65 on February 12, 2018, 07:50:55 PM
US 206 between Princeton and Hillsborough, NJ.  Of course we know that NJ has been broke for decades as look at the Hillsborough Bypass as its only two lanes and taking forever to complete.
 
Also US 206 from Bedminster to Netcong and part of it in Sussex County ( I do know that in Byram Twp. NJDOT did widen it with a center turn lane recently) especially leading up to Newton should be four lanes.

NJ 23 is one that needs to be not only widened but a whole new alignment from Stockholm to Sussex as that part of the highway is very congested.  My cousin who lives in the Borough of Sussex says he dreads driving that stretch.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on February 12, 2018, 08:48:09 PM
Quote
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?
MnDOT uses (or at least used to use) a planning level estimate of 11,200.  That said, I've seen the value range anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 and several numbers in between.
Getting more technical, the main Highway Capacity Manual measurement for capacity on a 2-lane roadway ("time spent following") does not lend itself well to a general AADT threshold.

The 32 miles of US-58 four-lane widening and bypasses between Clarksville and South Hill, VA built 1999-2004, had 20-year traffic projections in the 5,000 to 7,000 AADT range.  While that may seem low, US-58 is a major cross-state highway that carries substantial long distance traffic and substantial large truck traffic.  Money well spent, IMHO.  US-58 is now four lanes between Stuart and Hampton Roads.  The current goal is to extend that four-laning to I-77 at Hillsville.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 13, 2018, 01:35:49 AM
Quote
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?

MnDOT uses (or at least used to use) a planning level estimate of 11,200.  That said, I've seen the value range anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 and several numbers in between.

Getting more technical, the main Highway Capacity Manual measurement for capacity on a 2-lane roadway ("time spent following") does not lend itself well to a general AADT threshold.

I hadn't heard of the term "time spent following." It was most interesting to find the Highway Capacity Manual and read up on it. I was surprised that having a time spent following of up to 35% is considered LOS A. Spending a third of my driving time stuck behind someone else would drive me nuts.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on February 13, 2018, 08:19:31 AM
Spending a third of my driving time stuck behind someone else would drive me nuts.

If you don't already do this, count yourself very lucky. During normal daylight hours, that percentage has got to be upwards of 50% on many of the main two-lane roads around here.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on February 13, 2018, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: cl94
US 9, NY 149, and US 4 from I-87 Exit 20 to the Vermont line is one of the most glaring ones in Upstate New York. I have seen long backups in both directions, especially during the summer. It's never gonna happen, as NY 149 can't be widened without an amendment to the state constitution if any of the necessary ROW within Adirondack Park lies on state land.

Staying on the US 4 corridor down to Fort Edward then over to the Northway, or going new alignment and staying in Queensbury and Kingsbury would both solve that problem, but now we're straying into "fictional" territory...
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cl94 on February 13, 2018, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: cl94
US 9, NY 149, and US 4 from I-87 Exit 20 to the Vermont line is one of the most glaring ones in Upstate New York. I have seen long backups in both directions, especially during the summer. It's never gonna happen, as NY 149 can't be widened without an amendment to the state constitution if any of the necessary ROW within Adirondack Park lies on state land.

Staying on the US 4 corridor down to Fort Edward then over to the Northway, or going new alignment and staying in Queensbury and Kingsbury would both solve that problem, but now we're straying into "fictional" territory...

Which is precisely why NYSDOT started nudging people to the US 4 corridor a few years ago. Traffic counts show that isn't working, as GPSes still send people on 149, though Waze will send people on US 4 and NY 197 if traffic is bad.

At the risk of getting fictional here, the Town of Queensbury actually has been trying to push for a partial bypass and widening for several years, with the local MPO's studies supporting it.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: plain on February 13, 2018, 01:56:47 PM
US 33 through Hanover County, Va should've been 4 lanes like 20 years ago, at least up to Montpelier.

When VDOT replaced the Huguenot Bridge between western Henrico County and southwestern Richmond a few years back, they should've made it 4 lanes then.. it's still 2 lanes and carries over 26,000 AADT  :banghead:
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on February 13, 2018, 02:52:36 PM
US 33 through Hanover County, Va should've been 4 lanes like 20 years ago, at least up to Montpelier.
When VDOT replaced the Huguenot Bridge between western Henrico County and southwestern Richmond a few years back, they should've made it 4 lanes then.. it's still 2 lanes and carries over 26,000 AADT  :banghead:

Those US-33 widening projects have been discussed going back at least 25 years.

The Huguenot Bridge replacement was deliberately built with two lanes.  The city wanted traffic growth to be channeled to the higher capacity crossings such as VA-76, VA-150 and VA-288.  River Road and Cary Street are already congested enough and the city opposed widening them.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: plain on February 13, 2018, 05:23:39 PM
US 33 through Hanover County, Va should've been 4 lanes like 20 years ago, at least up to Montpelier.
When VDOT replaced the Huguenot Bridge between western Henrico County and southwestern Richmond a few years back, they should've made it 4 lanes then.. it's still 2 lanes and carries over 26,000 AADT  :banghead:

Those US-33 widening projects have been discussed going back at least 25 years.

The Huguenot Bridge replacement was deliberately built with two lanes.  The city wanted traffic growth to be channeled to the higher capacity crossings such as VA-76, VA-150 and VA-288.  River Road and Cary Street are already congested enough and the city opposed widening them.

Yeah I lived in Montpelier from 1990-1992 as a teen and again from 1997-2001. US 33 was pretty bad then (numerous accidents and long lines) and it's only been getting worse. Many of us in that area were trying to get at least 4 lanes undivided, plus a center turn lane in spots but the state didn't seem to budge on the issue. I haven't been up that way in the past couple of years but I remember a few property owners along the road placing signs pleading for the 4-laning
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Super Mateo on February 14, 2018, 12:03:41 AM
Partial list for the Illinois portion of Chicagoland:

* US 12: End of the four lane section west of Fox Lake to the end of the freeway in Wisconsin
* US 20: West end of the Elgin Bypass to at least Plank Road.
* IL 31:  Fill in the gaps between IL 72 and IL 120
* US 45: End of the four lane near Washington Street to at least IL 173.  Also the diagonal section between IL 83 and IL 21
* IL 47:  End of the four lanes at the north side of Huntley to Charles Road on the north side of Woodstock.  Also the end of the four lane section north of Yorkville to IL 56
* IL 58:  End of the four lanes at Barrington Road to at least IL 59.
* IL 59:  End of the four lanes north of IL 72 to at least US 14 in Barrington, if not US 12
* IL 60/IL 83:  The whole joint stretch
* IL 62:  Fill the gap from IL 25 to IL 68
* IL 83:  South of IL 132 to IL 137
* IL 120:  Probably all of it in Lake County, but at the least fill the gap between US 45 and the end of the four lane west of Hunt Club Road
* IL 131:  At least IL 173 to the Wisconsin border
* IL 173:  IL 59 to at least I-94, if not all the way to IL 131
* Barrington Road:  Fill the gap from Mudhank Road to IL 62
* Palatine Road:  Between IL 62 and US 14

Yeah, there's a lot to list.  I'm going to add some from the Chicago Southland:
-US 30: all remaining segments east of IL 47 (including the overlap), especially between Briggs and I-80, and the segment from Plainfield to Oswego.
-IL 7:  Entire route.  Some is being done right now, but the Lockport bridge really needs an expansion next.
-IL 83:  Cal-Sag portion.
-Laraway Road:  Harlem to IL 53.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Rick Powell on February 14, 2018, 01:55:03 AM
Partial list for the Illinois portion of Chicagoland:

* US 12: End of the four lane section west of Fox Lake to the end of the freeway in Wisconsin
* US 20: West end of the Elgin Bypass to at least Plank Road.
* IL 31:  Fill in the gaps between IL 72 and IL 120
* US 45: End of the four lane near Washington Street to at least IL 173.  Also the diagonal section between IL 83 and IL 21
* IL 47:  End of the four lanes at the north side of Huntley to Charles Road on the north side of Woodstock.  Also the end of the four lane section north of Yorkville to IL 56
* IL 58:  End of the four lanes at Barrington Road to at least IL 59.
* IL 59:  End of the four lanes north of IL 72 to at least US 14 in Barrington, if not US 12
* IL 60/IL 83:  The whole joint stretch
* IL 62:  Fill the gap from IL 25 to IL 68
* IL 83:  South of IL 132 to IL 137
* IL 120:  Probably all of it in Lake County, but at the least fill the gap between US 45 and the end of the four lane west of Hunt Club Road
* IL 131:  At least IL 173 to the Wisconsin border
* IL 173:  IL 59 to at least I-94, if not all the way to IL 131
* Barrington Road:  Fill the gap from Mudhank Road to IL 62
* Palatine Road:  Between IL 62 and US 14

Yeah, there's a lot to list.  I'm going to add some from the Chicago Southland:
-US 30: all remaining segments east of IL 47 (including the overlap), especially between Briggs and I-80, and the segment from Plainfield to Oswego.
-IL 7:  Entire route.  Some is being done right now, but the Lockport bridge really needs an expansion next.
-IL 83:  Cal-Sag portion.
-Laraway Road:  Harlem to IL 53.

I'd add -
All the gaps in the WiKaDuKe Route from US 6 in Minooka to the 4-lane section of Eola Road. There are some portions of 4-lane in Minooka and Joliet, but the route would function a lot better if the gaps and discontinuities were addressed.
IL 71 from IL 47 in Yorkville to Orchard Road in Oswego
US 6 from the 4-lane section in Channahon to Ridge Road in Minooka
US 6 in Morris from IL 47 to Saratoga Road
I'd also fill in the gap on IL 47 from Caton Farm Road south of Yorkville to IL 71 in Yorkville, but only after the Yorkville to Sugar Grove portion was completed. (the section to the south is currently under construction to 4-lane from Morris north of I-80 to Caton Farm).
At some point, IL 31 and US 34 between Orchard Road in Oswego and BNSF overhead in Montgomery should be expanded; it was under study in the 90s and the idea abandoned in the hope that the new 4-lane Orchard Road would relieve it. It did a little bit, but there is still a good bit of traffic on the section. enough to warrant 4 lanes.
Peotone Wilmington Road, if the Illiana Expressway is not built.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ftballfan on February 14, 2018, 09:29:29 AM
Quote from: cl94
US 9, NY 149, and US 4 from I-87 Exit 20 to the Vermont line is one of the most glaring ones in Upstate New York. I have seen long backups in both directions, especially during the summer. It's never gonna happen, as NY 149 can't be widened without an amendment to the state constitution if any of the necessary ROW within Adirondack Park lies on state land.

Staying on the US 4 corridor down to Fort Edward then over to the Northway, or going new alignment and staying in Queensbury and Kingsbury would both solve that problem, but now we're straying into "fictional" territory...
If only NY 149 ran a couple of miles further to the south (according to my road atlas, part of NY 149 skirts the Adirondack Park)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Super Mateo on February 14, 2018, 09:51:32 AM
I'd add -
All the gaps in the WiKaDuKe Route from US 6 in Minooka to the 4-lane section of Eola Road. There are some portions of 4-lane in Minooka and Joliet, but the route would function a lot better if the gaps and discontinuities were addressed.
IL 71 from IL 47 in Yorkville to Orchard Road in Oswego
US 6 from the 4-lane section in Channahon to Ridge Road in Minooka
US 6 in Morris from IL 47 to Saratoga Road
I'd also fill in the gap on IL 47 from Caton Farm Road south of Yorkville to IL 71 in Yorkville, but only after the Yorkville to Sugar Grove portion was completed. (the section to the south is currently under construction to 4-lane from Morris north of I-80 to Caton Farm).
At some point, IL 31 and US 34 between Orchard Road in Oswego and BNSF overhead in Montgomery should be expanded; it was under study in the 90s and the idea abandoned in the hope that the new 4-lane Orchard Road would relieve it. It did a little bit, but there is still a good bit of traffic on the section. enough to warrant 4 lanes.
Peotone Wilmington Road, if the Illiana Expressway is not built.

I forgot about US 6...the Wolf Road portion of it is getting more traffic, too.  It might be worth it to 4-lane all remaining segments east of Morris.

Moving over to NW IL, US 20 can be a huge drag from Freeport to Galena.  Four lanes would be nice, although the terrain would be tough to work with.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on February 14, 2018, 10:12:02 AM
US 33 through Hanover County, Va should've been 4 lanes like 20 years ago, at least up to Montpelier.
When VDOT replaced the Huguenot Bridge between western Henrico County and southwestern Richmond a few years back, they should've made it 4 lanes then.. it's still 2 lanes and carries over 26,000 AADT  :banghead:

Those US-33 widening projects have been discussed going back at least 25 years.

The Huguenot Bridge replacement was deliberately built with two lanes.  The city wanted traffic growth to be channeled to the higher capacity crossings such as VA-76, VA-150 and VA-288.  River Road and Cary Street are already congested enough and the city opposed widening them.

Of course it doesn't help that it's more or less impossible to widen River Road and Cary Street Road anyway since there isn't a whole lot of ROW, and the people living along that stretch have more than enough $$$ to influence any decision the city would make.

IIRC the new Huguenot Bridge was also built with pedestrians and cyclists in mind since the old bridge saw a good deal of pedestrian traffic.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on February 14, 2018, 10:56:03 AM
US 33 through Hanover County, Va should've been 4 lanes like 20 years ago, at least up to Montpelier.
When VDOT replaced the Huguenot Bridge between western Henrico County and southwestern Richmond a few years back, they should've made it 4 lanes then.. it's still 2 lanes and carries over 26,000 AADT  :banghead:
Those US-33 widening projects have been discussed going back at least 25 years.
The Huguenot Bridge replacement was deliberately built with two lanes.  The city wanted traffic growth to be channeled to the higher capacity crossings such as VA-76, VA-150 and VA-288.  River Road and Cary Street are already congested enough and the city opposed widening them.
Of course it doesn't help that it's more or less impossible to widen River Road and Cary Street Road anyway since there isn't a whole lot of ROW, and the people living along that stretch have more than enough $$$ to influence any decision the city would make.
IIRC the new Huguenot Bridge was also built with pedestrians and cyclists in mind since the old bridge saw a good deal of pedestrian traffic.

They could be physically widened but as you say expensive right-of-way and large expensive homes.  Henrico County actually did study a 4-lane widening project on their portion of River Road, about 25 years ago, but it didn't go forward due to local opposition.

There are enough connecting roads on both sides to support a 4-lane Huguenot Bridge, there is a 4-lane arterial to the south and a short section of 4-lane road on the north that splits into two separate 2-lane roads.  But that 26,000 AADT would then grow to 40,000-42,000 and would lead to even more congestion to the north if at least one of those roads wasn't 4-laned. 

I use the bridge several times per week and the average number of pedestrians and bicyclists on the bridge at any one time is probably 1.0 or less.  I walked the new bridge once and biked it once, it has a great view of the river but it is very noisy with all the high speed traffic (45 mph limit), so that is likely why even with UR nearby very few pedestrians and bicyclists use the bridge.  The shoulders are 10 feet wide and the sidewalks are 5 feet wide, so there is plenty of space for pedestrians and bicyclists.  I felt safe enough but it was a very noisy experience.

Roadway view -- https://tinyurl.com/yaoe9m62
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 14, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
Francona Notch Parkway. Old man of the mountain is gone. Upgrade it.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: roadman65 on February 14, 2018, 05:27:45 PM
How about in PA, US 30 from Lancaster to the Coatesville & Downingtown Bypass the road there at two lanes (3 if you count the turn lane) is very congested.

Yes, I am aware of the freeway that can't be built linking the Lancaster- York freeway to the Coatesville- Downingtown one due to local opposition, but still it does not change the situation whether NIMBYs cry or not.  Even that new WB alignment at PA 41 where there is now going to be a pair of one way streets is only a short fix for a couple of miles.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on February 14, 2018, 08:03:08 PM
Francona Notch Parkway. Old man of the mountain is gone. Upgrade it.

You just don't know, do you...

Just because the Old Man of the Mountain is gone doesn't mean that suddenly there are no more impediments to that segment.  Furthermore, even on summer weekends, the problem through that section is *NOT* it being single-lane.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on February 14, 2018, 08:07:31 PM
^ For those of us unfamiliar with the area, what is the problem?
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cl94 on February 14, 2018, 08:09:02 PM
Francona Notch Parkway. Old man of the mountain is gone. Upgrade it.

You just don't know, do you...

Just because the Old Man of the Mountain is gone doesn't mean that suddenly there are no more impediments to that segment.  Furthermore, even on summer weekends, the problem through that section is *NOT* it being single-lane.

Agree completely. There's this little thing called "Section 4F" that makes it damn near impossible to build anything through parkland. Unless the ROW is wide enough for 4 lanes (it often isn't), you need to take parkland. And the big issue in that area is trailhead parking. Not enough parking, so you get people parking on the shoulder.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: dvferyance on February 14, 2018, 08:10:17 PM
US-51 end of freeway to Woodruff.
WI-50 remaining 2 lane portion from Williams Bay to Delavan
WI-181 From WI-167 to WI-60
WI-167 the gap between the two four lane sections
WI-100 the gap between Drexel Ave and WI-36
WI-83 US 18 to WI-16 ( What made no sense to me is sections with less traffic to the south were 4 laned but farther to the north sections with more traffic were not).
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: midwesternroadguy on February 15, 2018, 05:23:13 AM
In Wisconsin, I would also nominate:

US 14 from Middleton to Spring Green or Gotham. 
US 14 from Oregon to Evansville
US 51/STH 138/possibly County Trunk N (one of these) between Stoughton and Madison
STH 26 Waupun to Oshkosh
STH 42/57 Sturgeon Bay bypass north of the bridge
US 12 Elkhorn to Whitewater
US 12/18 from County Trunk N to Cambridge (future)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2018, 08:05:47 AM
Speaking of Wisconsin what's the traffic count on US 2 coming from the Michigan state line?   Sure seemed like US 2 ought to be four lanes west of US 51.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: D-Dey65 on February 17, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
I think I just found one of the other threads where we discussed this:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=772.0

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: capt.ron on February 19, 2018, 02:14:14 PM
Would a three lane road (one lane each way + center turn lane) count?
MO 76 is begging to be a 5 lane. Traffic is terrible on the stretch close to Silver Dollar City.

If you think it needs five, then sure, I don't see why not.



Note: I have added some examples in my own area to the OP.

MO-76 in Branson then...

The stretches of two/three lane are horrible at peak. (Think hour long delays.) On the Highest AADT for a two lane, it has a AADT of 20k.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: cl94 on February 19, 2018, 05:18:57 PM
Are we counting three lane roads with a center turn lane as 2 lanes? Because if that's the case, long sections of both US 11 and US 30 in Pennsylvania. They are both painful.

How about in PA, US 30 from Lancaster to the Coatesville & Downingtown Bypass the road there at two lanes (3 if you count the turn lane) is very congested.

In PA, you can pass anywhere unless there are signs prohibiting it. ALL of the long center turn lane sections are signed as "do not pass". All of these could be partially fixed at no cost beyond paint and new signs by having the center lane alternate every couple miles to allow for passing. Much of 11 does not have the traffic counts to support a continuous 4 lanes, but it has enough truck traffic to make the inability to pass very annoying.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Hurricane Rex on February 19, 2018, 09:45:42 PM
Are we counting three lane roads with a center turn lane as 2 lanes?
I want to say we are but its up to the OP.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Joe The Dragon on February 19, 2018, 10:24:24 PM
Partial list for the Illinois portion of Chicagoland:

* US 12: End of the four lane section west of Fox Lake to the end of the freeway in Wisconsin
* US 20: West end of the Elgin Bypass to at least Plank Road.
* IL 31:  Fill in the gaps between IL 72 and IL 120
* US 45: End of the four lane near Washington Street to at least IL 173.  Also the diagonal section between IL 83 and IL 21
* IL 47:  End of the four lanes at the north side of Huntley to Charles Road on the north side of Woodstock.  Also the end of the four lane section north of Yorkville to IL 56
* IL 58:  End of the four lanes at Barrington Road to at least IL 59.
* IL 59:  End of the four lanes north of IL 72 to at least US 14 in Barrington, if not US 12
* IL 60/IL 83:  The whole joint stretch
* IL 62:  Fill the gap from IL 25 to IL 68
* IL 83:  South of IL 132 to IL 137
* IL 120:  Probably all of it in Lake County, but at the least fill the gap between US 45 and the end of the four lane west of Hunt Club Road
* IL 131:  At least IL 173 to the Wisconsin border
* IL 173:  IL 59 to at least I-94, if not all the way to IL 131
* Barrington Road:  Fill the gap from Mudhank Road to IL 62
* Palatine Road:  Between IL 62 and US 14

Yeah, there's a lot to list.  I'm going to add some from the Chicago Southland:
-US 30: all remaining segments east of IL 47 (including the overlap), especially between Briggs and I-80, and the segment from Plainfield to Oswego.
-IL 7:  Entire route.  Some is being done right now, but the Lockport bridge really needs an expansion next.
-IL 83:  Cal-Sag portion.
-Laraway Road:  Harlem to IL 53.

I'd add -
All the gaps in the WiKaDuKe Route from US 6 in Minooka to the 4-lane section of Eola Road. There are some portions of 4-lane in Minooka and Joliet, but the route would function a lot better if the gaps and discontinuities were addressed.
IL 71 from IL 47 in Yorkville to Orchard Road in Oswego
US 6 from the 4-lane section in Channahon to Ridge Road in Minooka
US 6 in Morris from IL 47 to Saratoga Road
I'd also fill in the gap on IL 47 from Caton Farm Road south of Yorkville to IL 71 in Yorkville, but only after the Yorkville to Sugar Grove portion was completed. (the section to the south is currently under construction to 4-lane from Morris north of I-80 to Caton Farm).
At some point, IL 31 and US 34 between Orchard Road in Oswego and BNSF overhead in Montgomery should be expanded; it was under study in the 90s and the idea abandoned in the hope that the new 4-lane Orchard Road would relieve it. It did a little bit, but there is still a good bit of traffic on the section. enough to warrant 4 lanes.
Peotone Wilmington Road, if the Illiana Expressway is not built.

This very small gap on wolf road

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1149347,-87.9076263,401m/data=!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: mrcmc888 on February 20, 2018, 12:52:24 AM
DE-9 directly connects Wilmington to the beaches, but is a two-lane rural road for almost its entire length.  Upgrading it to a highway south of Newcastle would definitely help take some strain off US-13, which can get clogged with shunpikers at certain times of the day.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: D-Dey65 on February 20, 2018, 12:02:22 PM
I still wouldn't mind seeing the rest of NY 102 widened:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NY_102_EB_10th_Mile_Marker_@_Meadowbrook_Pkwy_Bridge.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NY_102_E-B_ROW_west_of_Meadowbrook_Pkwy_Bridge.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NY_102_E-B_ROW_under_Meadowbrook_Pkwy_Bridge.jpg
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on December 26, 2018, 11:02:24 AM
Since we now have a thread about four lane roads that are too wide, I figured I might as well revive my thread about the reverse, just to remind everyone that it exists ;)

I decided to compile a list for this thread using NYS Traffic Data Viewer (https://gis3.dot.ny.gov/html5viewer/?viewer=tdv) as a guide. Any state and US highways in orange (volumes over 10K) could be included in a potential widening program, in addition to several other corridors with high volumes of trucks and long distance traffic. Below is a list by county, starting in Western New York and working east. I excluded county routes and local streets, since they are generally handled by the local jurisdiction and not the state.

Niagara County
NY 31 from I-190 to Middleport

Erie County
US 62 from Hamburg to Eden
NY 16 from NY 400 to Yorkshire
NY 78 from French Rd to NY 263
NY 425 from North Tonawanda to NY 31
NY 5 from Harris Hill to Akron

Cattaraugus County
NY 417 from Olean to Portville

Steuben County
NY 36 from I-390 to I-86

Chemung County
NY 14 from Watkins Glen to Elmira

Livingston County
US 20A from Geneseo to Livonia
US 20/NY 5 from Avon to Lima

Monroe County
NY 104 from NY 19 to NY 386
NY 404 from Gravel Rd to NY 250
NY 286 from Qualtrough Rd to NY 250
NY 441 from Watson Rd to County Line
NY 65 from NY 31 to Calkins Rd
NY 31 from French Rd to I-490
NY 31 from Turk Hill Rd to Wayne County Line
NY 250 (entire length)

Ontario County
US 20/NY 5 from Canandaigua to Geneva
NY 96 from I-490 to NY 332

Wayne County
NY 104 from Williamson to Wolcott
NY 31 from Monroe County Line to Lyons

Seneca County
US 20/NY 5 from Geneva to Waterloo

Cayuga County
US 20/NY 5 from NY 318 to Auburn
US 20 from Auburn to Skaneateles
NY 5 from Auburn to Onandaga County Line

Oswego County
NY 481 from Fulton to Oswego

Onandaga County
NY 5 from Cayuga County Line to Camillus
NY 31 from Baldwinsville to Cicero (whatever isn't already)
NY 92 from NY 5 to Cazenovia
NY 5 from Fayetteville to Madison County Line
NY 173 (entire length)

Madison County
NY 5 from Onandaga County Line to Vernon

Jefferson County
US 11 from I-781 to St Lawrence County Line

St Lawrence County
US 11 from Jefferson County Line to Potsdam

Saratoga County
NY 67 from Amsterdam to Ballston Spa
NY 50 from Scotia to Saratoga Springs



Corridors To Be Considered For A Full Freeway
US 20A from East Aurora to I-390
US 219 from Springville to Salamanca
NY 31 from Adams Basin to Orleans County Line
NY 13 from Ithaca to Cortland


As you can see, a four-laning program is definitely in order!
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: vdeane on December 26, 2018, 06:07:48 PM
Meanwhile, NYSDOT uses 15k as the threshold to consider a road diet.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on December 26, 2018, 09:39:12 PM
 :-D

Granted, an acceptable LOS for downtown Buffalo isn't really acceptable on a 55mph super-two in the middle of nowhere.

Aside from New England, Upstate NY is among the only places in the nation where four-lane divided non-freeways are basically non-existent. It's excusable in the mountainous regions of Vermont and New Hampshire. Not so much in the flat farmland of Wayne County and the like.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: TheOneKEA on December 27, 2018, 08:22:33 AM
There are several of these in Maryland:

MD 32 between Clarksville and I-70, and between I-70 and Eldersburg
US 15 between the Potomac River and US 340
US 1 Bel Air Bypass, between Winters Run and the southern end of the Hickory Bypass
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Beltway on December 27, 2018, 08:43:49 AM
There are several of these in Maryland:
MD 32 between Clarksville and I-70, and between I-70 and Eldersburg
US 15 between the Potomac River and US 340
US 1 Bel Air Bypass, between Winters Run and the southern end of the Hickory Bypass

US-340 on its 2-lane portions in MD, VA and WV, north of VA-7.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: mgk920 on December 27, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
Speaking of Wisconsin what's the traffic count on US 2 coming from the Michigan state line?   Sure seemed like US 2 ought to be four lanes west of US 51.

I don't have the numbers, but traffic on US 2 west from Iron Mountain, MI through Florence, WI is fairly light and its two lanes are fine.

Others in Wisconsin:
- WI 15 (entire route that is not already four lanes)
- WI 21 westward to and around Omro, WI
- US 10 between Appleton and Manitowoc (use new ROW routing from WI 441 at College Ave in Appleton via Outagamie County 'CE' to Forest Junction)
- US 45 between US 10 and Clintonville
- WI 47 from Outagamie County 'JJ' northward to at least Black Creek (install roundabout at Outagamie County 'A' (south) intersection).
- WI 76 from Outagamie County 'JJ' southward to at least Winnebago County 'JJ'.
- WI 96 between ATW airport and WI 76
- US 141 from WI 64 northward to at least Crivitz
- WI 172 west of GRB airport and WI 54 from WI 172 westward to at least Seymour (include new-ROW bypass of Oneida)
- WI 26 between WI 16/60 and US 151 (use new ROW routing)
- Outagamie and Winnebago County 'CB' south of ATW airport.
- Outagamie County 'JJ' across Appleton's north side

Mike
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: epzik8 on December 27, 2018, 11:39:43 AM
Portions of the U.S. 1 Bel Air Bypass in Maryland.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: JCinSummerfield on December 27, 2018, 12:17:48 PM
In Monroe County, Michigan, US-24 between Mall Road and M-125 needs to be 4 lanes.  Might as well say US-24 south of Monroe to Smith Road just north of the state line also.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: LM117 on December 27, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
NC-86 between Danville and Hillsborough. Hands down. I commute that road often and I always encounter a good deal of truck traffic, in addition to regular traffic. Between the truck traffic and the cars road raging and riding your ass if you aren't doing 70+mph on a 55mph highway, NC-86 can be a pretty scary ride. I've seen people try to pass 3 or 4 cars/trucks at once and narrowly avoid getting creamed head-on. I dread the days that I have to drive on NC-86. I go to Durham and eastern NC often and I don't have any other better alternative route.

Scratch that. Iíve been taking NC-86 to US-158 in Yanceyville, cutting across to Roxboro, and dropping down US-501 to Durham. Itís a bit more mileage, but much less stressful.

But it still doesnít change the fact that NC-86 needs widening, though.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on December 27, 2018, 01:23:01 PM
Locally:
1. US 8
2. TH 8
3. Constitutional Route 46
4. Federal Route No. 8

Others:
MN 95 from Princeton to North Branch
MN 23 from Milaca to Mora
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on December 27, 2018, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: webny99
Any state and US highways in orange (volumes over 10K) could be included in a potential widening program, in addition to several other corridors with high volumes of trucks and long distance traffic.

In the past, MnDOT has used a volume of 11,200 as a planning-level threshold for rural widening.  10K is close enough from a planning perspective.

Quote from: vdeane
Meanwhile, NYSDOT uses 15k as the threshold to consider a road diet.

For urban streets.  Big difference between rural and urban.  Most urban streets can handle 15K fairly adequately.  Depending on quantity of traffic signals, turning traffic, and private access points, you can even get up to 20K on some streets.

Quote from: Beltway
US-340 on its 2-lane portions in MD, VA and WV, north of VA-7.

North of Charles Town could really be a freeway, IMO.  Volumes would support one.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394
1. US 8
2. TH 8
3. Constitutional Route 46
4. Federal Route No. 8

Concur out to Center City.  Volumes drop off noticeably beyond CSAH 9.  Out to Taylors Falls would be a "nice to have", but the main priority is west of Center City.

Quote
MN 95 from Princeton to North Branch

Borderline.  There are other corridors with higher demand that you didn't mention.  Like 55 out to Buffalo (even out to Maple Lake has more traffic than 95).

Quote
MN 23 from Milaca to Mora

You could make a stronger argument for MN 65 up to Mora...but neither route to Mora has more than about 6,200 AADT (considering 65 north of 107 here).  Heck, even 15 from Kimball to 94 has more traffic than 23 into Mora.

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Using webny99's criteria of 10K AADT, here's the list of Minnesota rural (or mostly rural) roadways that either fully or substantially meet that criteria that are still 2 lanes (listed by route type then numerically):

- US 8 Forest Lake to Center City
- US 10 Cottage Grove to Hudson, WI
- US 12 Howard Lake to Wayzata
- US 61 White Bear Lake to Forest Lake
- US 169 Onamia to Vineland (basically the Mille Lacs reservation)
- US 212 Norwood Young America to Chaska

- MN 5 Waconia to Chanhassen
- MN 7 St. Bonifacius to Excelsior
- MN 19 I-35 to Northfield
- MN 24 Clearwater to Clear Lake
- MN 25 Buffalo to Monticello
- MN 55 Maple Lake to Medina
- MN 55 Rosemount to Hastings
- MN 65 Cambridge to MN 107
- MN 95 from I-94 to Stillwater
- MN 97 through Forest Lake
- MN 210 Brainerd to Crosby (really CSAH 12)

- Anoka CSAH 9 north of Andover
- Sherburne CSAH 11 south of US 10
- Anoka CSAH 14
- Washington CSAH 15 south of MN 96
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: texaskdog on December 27, 2018, 05:53:40 PM
Grand Loop Road in Yellowstone
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on December 27, 2018, 05:55:19 PM
Since webny99 mentioned Vermont and New Hampshire upthread, I ran the numbers for both.  Though Vermont is lightly populated and has the mountainous terrain to boot, there are a handful of corridors that meet or come close to the 10K threshold:

- US 2 from the Lake Champlain Causeway to I-89
- US 4 from Rutland to Killington
- US 7 from Vergennes to South Burlington
- US 7 from Colchester to Milton

- VT 2A from US 2/7 to VT 289
- VT 15 from Essex to Jericho
- VT 15 from Hyde Park to Morrisville
- VT 100 from Woodbury to Stowe (busiest rural 2-lane road in the state)

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New Hampshire has a few more, having 3 times the population of Vermont:

- US 1
- US 3 Manchester to Concord
- US 3/NH 11 concurrency from Franklin to the Laconia Bypass
- US 4 Lebanon (I-89) to Enfield
- US 4 Pembroke (end of I-393) to Dover (NH 16)
- US 202/NH 9 concurrency from Hillsborough to I-89
- US 302/NH 16 concurrency north of North Conway

- NH 9 Brattleboro, Vt to Keene
- NH 11/NH 103 concurrency from Claremont to Newport
- NH 11 New Durham to Rochester
- NH 12/NH 103 concurrency in Claremont
- NH 12 in Swanzey
- NH 16 Rochester to Wakefield (NH 153)
- NH 16 in Ossipee
- NH 25/NH 3A concurrency in Plymouth (much of this segment has become commercialized in recent years)
- NH 25 Meredith (US 3) to Moultonborough (NH 109)
- NH 28 Epsom (US 4) to Barnstead (NH 126)
- NH 33 Stratham to Portsmouth
- NH 38
- NH 101 Keene to Marlborough
- NH 101 Wilton to Bedford (NH 114), including Milford Bypass
- NH 102 Hudson to Derry
- NH 104 New Hampton (I-93) to Meredith (US 3)
- NH 106 Concord to Loudon
- NH 106 Belmont (NH 140) to Laconia
- NH 108 Exeter to Rochester
- NH 111 Hudson to Hampstead (NH 121A)
- NH 114 Goffstown to Bedford (NH 101)
- NH 125 Haverhill, MA to Rochester
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on December 27, 2018, 06:19:47 PM
Grand Loop Road in Yellowstone

Funny you mention it...NPS completed a Yellowstone Transportation and Vehicle Mobility Study (https://www.nps.gov/yell/getinvolved/upload/Yellowstone-Transportation-Mobility-Study_lo-res.pdf) last year.  They mention that visitation to Yellowstone has jumped up 40% just since 2008, and they predict all roads in the park will encounter recurring congestion in the next 5 years.

Using webny99's criteria, the western part of Grand Loop Rd ("US 89") from Old Faithful to Norris comes close to meeting the threshold and West Entrance Rd ("US 20") actually exceeds the threshold.

The study also did detailed LOS calculations (which for 2-lane roads is based on "percent time following" behind a vehicle).  West Entrance Rd, Grand Loop Rd from West Thumb to Norris, Norris Canyon Rd, and Grand Loop Rd from Canyon Village to Lake were all LOS D, with the Madison Junction (Grand Loop/West Entrance) and Canyon Junction (Grand Loop/Norris Canyon at Canyon Village) intersections operating at LOS E.

The only road-related recommendation from the study besides more detailed study and ITS solutions is converting Tower Junction (Grand Loop Rd at Northeast Entrance Rd) to an all-way stop.

From a purely traffic perspective, one could make an argument for widening West Entrance Rd to 4 lanes and building an interchange at Madison Junction.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Finrod on December 27, 2018, 07:26:12 PM
I remember US 231 between Crawfordsville and Lafayette being 2 lanes and in need of more.  Heck, I'd make it part of an eastern extension of I-72, using SR 25 and US 24 past Lafayette through to Toledo.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: architect77 on December 27, 2018, 08:51:57 PM
NORTH CAROLINA has had the goal of bringing a modern, 4-lane, divided highway to within 10 miles of 96% of its population (one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

It is slowly building towards that goal. About 7-10 new interstate designations have been awarded for upgraded highways and NC is always constructing 4-lane bypasses around small but congested towns.

US401 is being widened to 4-lanes right now in my native Franklin County just North of Raleigh. (Wait was 40 years though)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: 1 on December 27, 2018, 10:29:38 PM
(one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

How is Pennsylvania more evenly dispersed than Iowa, Mississippi, or Alabama? (North Carolina is definitely one of the top, but I'm questioning Pennsylvania.)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: michravera on December 27, 2018, 11:29:25 PM
Quote
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?

MnDOT uses (or at least used to use) a planning level estimate of 11,200.  That said, I've seen the value range anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 and several numbers in between.

Getting more technical, the main Highway Capacity Manual measurement for capacity on a 2-lane roadway ("time spent following") does not lend itself well to a general AADT threshold.

To my way of thinking, if there are more than 1800 vehicles in the peak hour in that direction, it needs widening. More than 1800 vehicles in the peak hour and drivers can't keep 2 seconds of following distance. Now, you can get to that 1800 vehicles in the peak hour in each direction with at little as 3600 AADT, if the section of road is used all and only during a commute hour in each direction. It would be far more realistic to assume that a road gets used far more than just in the peak hour in each direction. Probably something closer to 20K would cause the trouble, but it is going to seriously vary with the traffic pattern of the road. A road that runs constant 24x7 in both directions could theoretically handle 86.4K AADT. If I am not mistaken, I-405 has a section that is 5 lanes in each directions and runs close to the theoretical 432K limit. But, that is asking a lot!
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: webny99 on December 28, 2018, 11:40:04 AM
20K on a rural, 55mph+ two-lane road is just wild. There aren't many examples, but NY 31 from the NY 531 freeway to NY 260 qualifies, and driving it at peak hour is incredible to experience.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on December 28, 2018, 08:49:07 PM
^ Until they upped the speed limit, the Long Lake (MN) bypass on US 12 fit that bill.  But that road's a Super-2 that can better handle such volumes.

The first leg of US 8 northeast of Forest Lake, MN also fits the bill.  It's a steady stream of constant traffic in the peak direction that usually flows until you approach a signal.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: architect77 on December 29, 2018, 11:59:20 PM
(one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

How is Pennsylvania more evenly dispersed than Iowa, Mississippi, or Alabama? (North Carolina is definitely one of the top, but I'm questioning Pennsylvania.)

Well I know Penn. supposedly has the highest rural population of all states, and NC is right up there too, the state's 3 biggest metros only account for around 6million of the 10.5 million residents.


Looking at a map of Pennsylvania, it looks at if every nook and cranny is settled, similar to NC.


Perhaps I phrased it wrong.


Maybe NC and Penn. have the largest rural populations, and they have to be very venly dispersed for so many people to be classified as rural.

Anyway, with NC's countless small towns in all 100 counties, having a 4-lane divided highway within 10 miles of everyone (96%)to use, is a lofty goal that they are making progress towards.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: froggie on December 30, 2018, 12:40:29 PM
Ran numbers for Alabama.  There aren't a whole lot because Alabama has undergone a number of 4-lane widening projects, including two that were Appalachian Regional Corridors (and are now finished, Birmingham Northern Beltline notwithstanding).  But there are a few high-traffic 2 lane corridors that are rural or somewhat rural:

- US 31 from Spanish Fort (US 90) to AL 59
- US 80 from Crawford (AL 169) to Phenix City
- US 98 from the Mississippi line to Semmes (under construction to connect directly to AL 158)
- US 98 from Foley (AL 59) east to the Florida line
- US 231 from Avondale Lake (south of Pell City) to Pell City
- US 411 from Leeds (I-20) to Odenville (AL 174)

- AL 14 from Millbrook (AL 143) to Wetumpka (US 231)
- AL 104 from Fairhope (US 98) to Robertsdale (AL 59)
- AL 119 from Montevallo to Alabaster
- AL 165 from Fort Mitchell (back side of Fort Benning, GA) to Phenix City (US 431)
- Bynum-Leatherwood Rd/Calhoun CR 109 from AL 202 to US 431 (kind of an outer western Anniston loop)
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Bickendan on December 31, 2018, 05:31:12 AM
OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras).

EDIT: US 26 from Mt. Hood to Madras (coast just increased passing lanes).
US 101 Seaside to Astoria.

OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras)

US-26 all the way from the coast to Madras should be at least four.

Even if you could PBOT to widen Powell from 95th to 174th, you'd have to also convince Gresham to do the same from 174th to 212th (and probably get Metro to sign off on it as well). It'd be easier to reroute 26 along Division between 95th and Burnside and tell PBOT where to stick it with their 30 mph limit on outer Division.

That said, US/ORH 26 does need to be widened between Rhododendron and OR 35. Along ORH 53, piecemealing it with longer/more frequent passing lanes would work; same along ORH 47 west of Tillamook Junction.

OR 18: Definite candidate for a full widening. I'll argue that OR 99W between Dundee and 18/233 doesn't need it as it'll eventually be bypassed by the Newberg-Dundee Bypass extension (which will be dualed as part of its final phase).

US 101 from OR 202 to US 26: Concur.

OR 99E from Salem to Oregon City.

OR 551, full length.

US 97, Klamath Falls to OR 58, Redmond to Madras, at minimum. Weed to Madras ideal.

OR 22, Valley Junction to Rickreall, Stayton/Sublimity to Santiam Junction.

US 20, Santiam Junction to Bend.

US 199, whole length.

Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Ben114 on December 31, 2018, 09:38:29 AM
US-20 from MA 12 in Auburn to I-90/MA 146 in Millbury
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ipeters61 on December 31, 2018, 10:17:45 AM
DE-9 directly connects Wilmington to the beaches, but is a two-lane rural road for almost its entire length.  Upgrading it to a highway south of Newcastle would definitely help take some strain off US-13, which can get clogged with shunpikers at certain times of the day.
In my experience of driving that road on weekends, I've never seen enough traffic on DE-9 to justify four-laning it (there are portions with fewer than 1000 vehicles per day).  Also, the geography there would make it difficult to construct a four lane road, I would imagine.  Also there's an existing truck restriction on that road (not sure exactly where it begins but I would imagine at least as far north as Delaware City), I'm sure those who live along DE-9 would prefer not to have high traffic on their road.

Has anybody mentioned US-6 between Bolton CT and Willimantic CT?  I drove that road plenty of times when I was in undergrad and it would have been nice to have at least some passing zones.  Sometimes those 11 miles felt like they went on forever...
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: JREwing78 on December 31, 2018, 10:09:53 PM
Speaking of Wisconsin what's the traffic count on US 2 coming from the Michigan state line?   Sure seemed like US 2 ought to be four lanes west of US 51.

You can check out Wisconsin statewide traffic counts here:
https://trust.dot.state.wi.us/roadrunner/

Just west of the US-2/US-51 interchange outside of Hurley and Ironwood, traffic counts are 3900-4600 vpd. You'd have a better chance at selling a widening west of Ashland, with 5500 to 7500 vpd - or on par with US-53 traffic counts between Spooner and US-2. I suspect commercial vehicle traffic is higher on US-53, what with the direct connection it makes to I-94 from Superior. However, WisDOT doesn't make that info easy to find.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: SectorZ on January 01, 2019, 08:48:49 AM
US-20 from MA 12 in Auburn to I-90/MA 146 in Millbury

I'd say farther eastward to 9 could work there for safety/traffic related reasons as well, providing it's not four-laned like the Brimfield to Oxford stretch that is a complete death trap.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ipeters61 on January 03, 2019, 09:41:38 PM
I forgot to mention another one: NJ-47 between NJ-55 and Rio Grande.

I remember many summers with my family driving to the Jersey shore and it was such a bottleneck, the whole way.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: mrsman on January 15, 2019, 06:38:37 PM
CA-118 between CA-23 and CA-126 in Ventura County should be 4 lanes as well.  It can provide a great connector from Ventura to the Simi Valley area and take some traffic off the 101, especially for those heading to the northern sections of LA county.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: sparker on January 15, 2019, 07:05:47 PM
Back in my first reply in this thread (#12), I cited CA 12 from Suisun City east to Rio Vista as worthy of 4 lanes.  That was a bit short of useful; would result in congestion in central Rio Vista as traffic merged into a single lane to cross the Sacramento River on the existing drawbridge.  Either that bridge needs twinning -- or replacement by a new structure (fanciful concept: bypass Rio Vista with a 4-lane expressway + a cable-stay high level bridge and leave the present structure for CA 84 and/or local use).  Then upgrade the rest of CA 12 at least to I-5 (and maybe CA 99) to a similar facility. 

And as long as CA 25 and 152 are being expanded (see the cited reply above), similarly upgrade CA 156 between CA 152 and US 101 and US 101 and CA 1; it sees heavy use for traffic from the Valley over to the Monterey Peninsula.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Ben114 on January 15, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
The entire very-short MA 140/30 concurrency in North Grafton, that is a mess.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Gnutella on February 26, 2019, 08:42:25 AM
In Georgia, all the U.S. highways connecting to Athens all need to be widened to four lanes, since Athens is the largest city in the South with no direct Interstate access. This includes U.S. 29 from Hull to the South Carolina state line (or at least  Royston), U.S. 78 from Athens to Thomson, and U.S. 129 from Gray to Watkinsville (including the U.S. 441 concurrency from Eatonton to Watkinsville). Good news is, the brief two-lane segment of U.S. 129 from Pendergrass to near Gainesville is currently being widened to four lanes, which will make for very easy travel between Athens and Gainesville.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: PHLBOS on February 26, 2019, 10:10:55 AM
PA 41 between US 1 & US 30.

A relatively new one that could've IMHO been avoided: the US 202 Parkway between Montgomeryville & Doylestown. 
While I can understand the reasoning behind not building such as a 4-lane expressway as originally planned (the opposition of such was actually from those that lived north of the existing US 202 expressway/bypass); but PennDOT could've at least made the entire parkway 4-lanes rather than at the intersections and approaching the PA 611 interchange.

MA 114 between US 1 and MA 125.

US 20 between MA 169 & MA 31.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: ipeters61 on February 26, 2019, 10:24:38 AM
A relatively new one that could've IMHO been avoided: the US 202 Parkway between Montgomeryville & Doylestown. 
While I can understand the reasoning behind not building such as a 4-lane expressway as originally planned (the opposition of such was actually from those that lived north of the existing US 202 expressway/bypass); but PennDOT could've at least made the entire parkway 4-lanes rather than at the intersections and approaching the PA 611 interchange.
I did a Norristown/Doylestown commute on that road for about a month.  I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: sparker on February 26, 2019, 12:57:46 PM
And one more to add to the Central California commute-affected list:  CA 120 from CA 99 to at least Oakdale (which is starting to see exurban housing development) -- one of the most white-knuckle drives around due to turning trucks and cross traffic (mostly near Escalon, which deserves a bypass!).  Ideally, extending 4 lanes out past Oakdale and connecting with the existing divided stretch shared with CA 108 all the way to the 108/120 "split" would be a godsend to recreational traffic to Yosemite and Sonora. 
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: Zeffy on February 26, 2019, 06:41:01 PM
A relatively new one that could've IMHO been avoided: the US 202 Parkway between Montgomeryville & Doylestown. 
While I can understand the reasoning behind not building such as a 4-lane expressway as originally planned (the opposition of such was actually from those that lived north of the existing US 202 expressway/bypass); but PennDOT could've at least made the entire parkway 4-lanes rather than at the intersections and approaching the PA 611 interchange.

Yes PLEASE. Everything south of the expressway portion in Doylestown should be 2 lanes. I have taken to using business 202 as a way around it most of the time.

Another one that comes to mind is the entire stretch of US 206 from Princeton to Bridgewater in New Jersey... literally maddening.
Title: Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
Post by: PHLBOS on February 27, 2019, 09:23:42 AM
A relatively new one that could've IMHO been avoided: the US 202 Parkway between Montgomeryville & Doylestown. 
While I can understand the reasoning behind not building such as a 4-lane expressway as originally planned (the opposition of such was actually from those that lived north of the existing US 202 expressway/bypass); but PennDOT could've at least made the entire parkway 4-lanes rather than at the intersections and approaching the PA 611 interchange.

Yes PLEASE. Everything south of the expressway portion in Doylestown should be 2 4 lanes.
FTFY