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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Laplace on January 28, 2019, 05:15:30 PM

Title: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Laplace on January 28, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.

Some ones I can think of:

I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.

I-15 North in Las Vegas uses Salt Lake City and I-15 South in Salt Lake City reciprocates and uses Las Vegas, skipping Arizona. Although this is completely understandable, since I-15 in Arizona is only 30 miles and there are only very small towns on the route.

I-95 South in Providence uses New York City, which skips Connecticut. However, I-95 North in New York City doesn't reciprocate and uses New Haven for I-95 North.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 05:23:34 PM
I-80 in Ohio skips Pennsylvania and New Jersey and signs New York.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Brandon on January 28, 2019, 05:36:36 PM
I-57 south (primary control) is for Memphis in Illinois, completely skipping Missouri and Arkansas, and going past the end of I-57.

I-94 in Michigan has a primary control of Chicago, skipping Indiana.

I-80 in Illinois used to have a primary control of Toledo, east of Joliet, again, skipping Indiana.  Now, the control is Indiana.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: PHLBOS on January 28, 2019, 05:37:05 PM
In anticipation of the I-95/PA Turnpike ramps that opened late last September, many of the northbound signs for I-95 that once read Trenton were changed to read New York last summer... thereby skipping over NJ.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: pianocello on January 28, 2019, 06:44:51 PM
I-64 in Louisville has St. Louis as a control city, skipping two states: Illinois and Indiana.

I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 21stCenturyRoad on January 28, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
In Hardeeville, SC,  the control city changes from Savannah to Jacksonville, skipping over Georgia.

Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ftballfan on January 28, 2019, 09:25:07 PM
The Ohio Turnpike westbound uses Chicago as a control city in western Ohio (west of Toledo)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on January 28, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
I seem to recall Duluth being signed on M-28 west of the US 41 split, skipping Superior and thus Wisconsin. 
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 10:01:31 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
IDOT directs I-24 West traffic heading for St Louis to use I-57 North to I-64 West, approaching the I-24 Western (Northern) terminus @ I-57, via BGSs - first to Follow I-57 North, before merging onto I-57, then when continuing on I-57, to use I-64 in Mt Vernon

That said, I would have no issue with a seemingly senseless I-57/I-24 multiplex between Marion and Mt Vernon, with St Louis and Chicago as co-Controls on that segment

I-64 West does Multiplex with I-57 North around Mt Vernon, so that I-24 West traffic that defaults onto I-57 North will naturally, in about 50 miles, see St Louis as a Control, when 57 and 64 merge together
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Revive 755 on January 28, 2019, 10:13:06 PM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.

It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 10:18:44 PM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.

It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
The Entrance Controls for I-24 at Paducah Interchanges are Nashville (east) and St Louis (west)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Jmiles32 on January 28, 2019, 10:33:14 PM
Roanoke VA is the control city for I-81 southbound in Hagerstown MD, skipping over West Virginia.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on January 28, 2019, 11:54:26 PM
What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.

Some ones I can think of:

I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.

When this was first posted in the 1960s (?), Las Cruces was a much smaller city than it is now. The city population is over 100,000 and Doña Ana County probably adds that much more. Plus, being an Interstate highway junction, I think it is the next city east of Tucson that meets control city criteria.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: hbelkins on January 29, 2019, 10:32:27 AM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.

It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
The Entrance Controls for I-24 at Paducah Interchanges are Nashville (east) and St Louis (west)

Yes, beginning at the US 68 exit.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: thenetwork on January 29, 2019, 10:37:44 AM
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: sparker on January 29, 2019, 11:57:59 AM
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)


Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!).  I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: US 89 on January 29, 2019, 12:06:37 PM
Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!).  I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.

In and west of Grand Junction, the control city is now simply "Utah":

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1768/28434682147_68e104b0e3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KjFbmt)

See how "Utah" is on a greenout? That control city used to be Green River, a little town of less than 1000 most notable as the junction of US 6 and I-70!

I know there are at least a few Las Vegas signs at some of the I-70 exits west of Richfield, but the bottom line on the mileage signs is "Jct I-15".

As for St. George: I'd love to see that happen, but Utah seems to like its faraway control cities too much for that to change. If Provo can't be its own control city from Salt Lake, I see no reason why St. George would get that status. (Meanwhile, Ogden is a full control city, but that seems to be more of a function of the I-15/84 junction there.)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 12:08:53 PM
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)


Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!).  I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.
Vegas is still much bigger and more famous.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: corco on January 29, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho

US 95 south of I-84 in Idaho and north of I-80 in Winnemucca use Winnemucca and Boise, respectively, as control cities, skipping Oregon. Oregon, of course, uses "Jordan Valley" and "Ontario"
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Takumi on January 29, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 12:36:23 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 29, 2019, 03:17:20 PM
I-55 in Missouri and I-270/I-255 in Missouri and Illinois use Memphis, skipping AR

Conversely, I-55 and I-240 in Memphis, TN use St Louis, also skipping AR
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 03:29:32 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.

Still is. It says “New York City” underneath “Baltimore” and it’s northbound at Exit 161. Further north prior to Exit 166 a different sign refers to “NY–NJ,” but they’re not really being used in the traditional control city sense.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Ian on January 29, 2019, 03:43:23 PM
Modern signage for southbound I-95 (Maine Turnpike) include "Boston" as a control city, skipping over New Hampshire. An example on the Falmouth Spur (unsigned I-495): https://goo.gl/maps/p2a9LBrYTGK2

Considering its length through the Granite State is a hair over 16-miles, I can see why no town from there was chosen, although one could argue using "Portsmouth" as a control city.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Rothman on January 29, 2019, 04:54:53 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.

(Really?)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 05:00:06 PM


US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho

US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.

Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.

(Really?)

Yellowstone is not between Broadus and Belle Fourche.  The 20-mile segment that corco mentioned, and to which Roadgeekteen replied, really doesn't go through anything of significance.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 29, 2019, 05:42:49 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
St Louis is never a control for I-57, but when transvering IL on I-57, from the South, I-57 North multiplexes with I-64 West around Mt Vernon, with Controls of Chicago and St Louis. From the North, I-57 South multiplexes with I-70 West around Effingham, with Controls of Memphis and St Louis

Long story short, travelers on I-57 encounter BGSs with routes to St Louis. And when on the Multiplexed segments, heading for the STL, one would be expected to follow the route to your destination/direction of travel
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Laplace on January 29, 2019, 08:01:04 PM
What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.

Some ones I can think of:

I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.

When this was first posted in the 1960s (?), Las Cruces was a much smaller city than it is now. The city population is over 100,000 and Doña Ana County probably adds that much more. Plus, being an Interstate highway junction, I think it is the next city east of Tucson that meets control city criteria.

Las Cruces has certainly grown quite a bit in recent years, from what I have heard from long time New Mexicans. I've only been in NM for 4 years, so I don't have much input on that. However, I can say that Arizona tends to skip over towns that aren't major cities. The also sign I-8 East for both Phoenix and Tucson, despite neither of them being served by I-8. They also sign I-8 West for San Diego the entire route, skipping over Yuma, which has a metro population of over 200k people now. Arizona seems to have a policy to only use major cities as control cities, unless there is no other option. Flagstaff and Nogales are the exception to this, however. I do believe that Las Cruces meets control city criteria, I just don't know if Arizona would vouch for it since they only like to use major cities as control cities and El Paso is 50 miles away.

New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:09:34 PM


STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.

I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.

You're confusing me even more.

Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.

I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis.  As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57.  The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take from I-57 to reach Saint Louis.  I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70.  After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?

Exit signage along I-57 shown below...

Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/ux8LRNQ9bKy):  [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/6ayJcqkPYyE2):  [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/MXpLUwtZzx72):  [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]

Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/Rc2L6Fw2yB42):  [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/r7fbane29TU2):  [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70 (https://goo.gl/maps/9eRgR8WgUKo):  [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]



What exactly is a morrist, anyway?

I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL.  I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis:  by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1 on January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on January 29, 2019, 11:03:32 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Yes there is. First is on mainline I-24, about 1 mile or so before route termination @ I-57
(http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/wb24at57a.jpg)
Second is on mainline I-57, just north of the I-24 end, after I-24 traffic has joined I-57
(http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/tostluse64w.jpg)
Crediting billburmaster.com for both photos

The first BGS is really the only IDOT/IL acknowledgement of I-24 West having a Control of St Louis
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: GaryV on January 30, 2019, 06:28:44 AM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:

Someone who follows the teachings of Morr, obviously.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 30, 2019, 10:56:35 AM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
But the interchange is done so now it technically does.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: kphoger on January 30, 2019, 01:27:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.

Besides the fact that there is (as already mentioned by ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1 on January 30, 2019, 01:38:06 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.

Besides the fact that there is (as already mentioned by ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?

I misinterpreted this post below.

I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on February 17, 2019, 06:39:49 PM
I’m not sure Texarkana would fit the spirit of the thread anyway, but my assumption is AR is the one being referred to because the route itself is entirely in Arkansas except for that stupid little bit that will clip into Texas (as a result I could see it being a long time before that bit is built; you think this will be any priority for Texas to build? Noooope.)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 18, 2019, 12:42:29 AM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.

This would be legally impossible since cities are nothing but subdivisions of states. States can create and dissolve cities as they wish.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Road Hog on February 18, 2019, 09:02:17 AM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.

Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.

Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.

Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1995hoo on February 18, 2019, 12:21:01 PM
Northbound I-59 in Alabama has signs using Chattanooga (skipping Georgia). This may be notable because not only do these signs skip a state, they also refer to a city that’s on a different Interstate—I-59 ends in Georgia and you use I-24 to reach Chattanooga.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: abefroman329 on February 18, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
Until 2018, when the gap in I-95 in NJ was completed, there was no "real" route.  As 1995hoo rightly points out below, there is still no "real" route.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1995hoo on February 18, 2019, 12:40:45 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.

The “real route” is whatever route a given person chooses to use at a given time. If I opt for I-270 to US-15 to Harrisburg, then I-81 and I-78 to New York, it’s no less a “real route” than the Jersey Turnpike route many people think is the only option.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: jp the roadgeek on February 18, 2019, 01:13:09 PM
On I-70 and at the US 15 split near Frederick, MD, Charles Town, WV is used as a control for US 340.  US 340 passes through a little sliver of VA between MD and WV.

Like I-195, I-95 uses New York as a control, as well as I-295 South from RI 37 East.  OHDOT also uses it on I-80 in Youngstown, which is 3 states away.  Chicago is used as a control on the Ohio Turnpike from Toledo west, which skips IN.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 01:40:20 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.

Where is the gap in I-95?  PA completed the last missing link last year.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.

It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 03:16:22 PM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.

It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.

It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted, but for the casual motorist it could be either or both Bluefields.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: US 89 on February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: PHLBOS on February 18, 2019, 06:27:23 PM
In similar fashion that I-95 northbound in MD skips over DE, PA, & NJ in favor of New York on its signs; in eastern OH, many ramp signs for I-80 eastbound also completely skip over both NJ & PA and list New York.  However, once in PA; that practice is dropped.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Ben114 on February 18, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Bickendan on February 18, 2019, 07:26:49 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
A morris dancer?
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: empirestate on February 19, 2019, 07:29:24 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.

The route implicit from the control city, is my point.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: roadman65 on February 19, 2019, 08:02:06 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro.  That is in the same state and there is no issue to there being another Putney being nearby like Washington, PA on signs within Pennsylvania, particuraly I-70 as Washington, DC is nearby and connected via I-270 at Frederick, MD.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: sprjus4 on February 19, 2019, 08:47:18 PM
I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.

I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

The worst is/was pre-MUTCD when the states were signed with a capital first letter and a small second letter.  MassDOT and RIDOT would sign Hartford as "Hartford Ct", which suggests there is street named Hartford Court off that exit (it was compounded at the I-295/US 6 interchange in Johnston by the fact that Exit 9C exits to Hartford Avenue, but at least those have been corrected.  I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too. 

One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.  The use of "New York" as a control on I-90 West in a couple of places in Boston (near the Hynes Convention Center and formerly at the 128 junction) is kind of ambiguous, since you would follow I-90 West to a point to get to both NY City and NY state.  In the case of the former, you would have to travel through CT to get there, unless you took the Mass Pike to the Berkshire Spur and either went down the Taconic or the Thruway (the latter may even include a jog into NJ if you take 17/80 (or 4)/95, or the Palisades to the GWB).     
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1 on February 20, 2019, 08:23:25 AM
I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too. 

If 2-letter state abbreviations had existed before 1820, maybe we would have seen it.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.

I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
It doesn't actually skip a state, but there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Road Hog on February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: US 89 on February 20, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.

I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon -- Macon is used as the southbound I-75 control on the entire stretch between there and Atlanta. Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: lepidopteran on February 21, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon ... Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida".  But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta".  Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: abefroman329 on February 21, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
And that's a new one, the one I remember was farther south.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: sprjus4 on February 21, 2019, 04:49:17 PM
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida".  But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta".  Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).
Must've been a long time ago. Even in 2003, it read "Bypass to Valdosta". Mentioning Florida makes more sense though, especially for long-distance traffic. I'm sure someone heading from Michigan to Florida and has been on the road all day long is going to say "right, Valdosta. That extremely famous and well known by people all over the country, city of 60,000 is the right way to get to Florida." :-D
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/images475/i-075_sb_app_i-475_ga_21.jpg)
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: abefroman329 on February 22, 2019, 11:58:56 AM
I remember "Bypass To Florida," but the last time I was on that stretch of I-75 was in 2000.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: DJDBVT on February 22, 2019, 06:09:27 PM
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro.

The BGS replacements at that location now list only "White River Junction" for 91 north (installed late last year). I always wondered why the "Vt." after "Putney" on those old (1985) signs.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Ben114 on February 24, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.

Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: ilpt4u on February 24, 2019, 10:16:17 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone’s favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: MikieTimT on February 24, 2019, 10:43:32 PM


STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.

I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.

You're confusing me even more.

Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.

I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis.  As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57.  The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take from I-57 to reach Saint Louis.  I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70.  After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?

Exit signage along I-57 shown below...

Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/ux8LRNQ9bKy):  [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/6ayJcqkPYyE2):  [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/MXpLUwtZzx72):  [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]

Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/Rc2L6Fw2yB42):  [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/r7fbane29TU2):  [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70 (https://goo.gl/maps/9eRgR8WgUKo):  [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]



What exactly is a morrist, anyway?

I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL.  I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis:  by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.

US-60 between Sikeston and Poplar Bluff just became Future I-57 yesterday, so this is one step closer to changing anyway.  Just need to figure out how to get from Poplar Bluff to Walnut Ridge, and then the southern control city will have to change to Little Rock anyway since I-57 doesn't get anywhere near Memphis.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.   
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 08:04:54 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: 1 on February 25, 2019, 08:05:41 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.

Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: hbelkins on February 25, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone’s favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30

Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Beltway on February 25, 2019, 01:39:26 PM
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone’s favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).

Probably I should have refined my statement to only including the adjoining states, Maryland and Virginia.  Going two or more states away they might want to get more precise.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: empirestate on February 25, 2019, 05:31:03 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

That would be one of the "other reasons."
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 09:24:48 PM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.

Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Don't most people call that area "upstate"?
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: tdindy88 on February 25, 2019, 09:39:12 PM
Those in New York City call it Upstate. I doubt those in Ohio do. It makes no sense for them to do so.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: pdx-wanderer on February 26, 2019, 01:19:45 AM
The main control cities on US 95 from Southern Idaho to Winnemucca are Winnemucca and Boise, skipping over Oregon.
Title: Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
Post by: sandwalk on February 26, 2019, 12:28:42 PM
Interstate 470 in Ohio uses "Washington PA" as the eastbound control city, skipping West Virginia.  Obviously I-470 is a bypass of Wheeling, but the highway never enters the state of Pennsylvania.

https://goo.gl/maps/QRt3gkNK2N32

https://goo.gl/maps/HEfNFXQaoXU2