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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 27, 2019, 08:13:41 PM

Title: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 27, 2019, 08:13:41 PM
Came upon the following outside Bellefountaine, Ohio today:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7849/47232895001_b5a970855e_z.jpg)

Now, we've all seen the various 'Historic Route' signage across the nation, but I've never seen ODOT do this in regards to *expired* Ohio routes before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Route_533).

Anyone else have examples of road signage like this?
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: txstateends on February 27, 2019, 08:49:50 PM
Came upon the following outside Bellefountaine, Ohio today:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7849/47232895001_b5a970855e_z.jpg)

Now, we've all seen the various 'Historic Route' signage across the nation, but I've never seen ODOT do this in regards to *expired* Ohio routes before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Route_533).


TxDOT would really have to up their sign budget if they started doing historic/OLD signage along former US/state routes in TX (it would be like if the state had to do state-sign-style installs of yellow/blue-pentagon county road signage, like some other states do, with directions and arrows included -- $$$$!!!!).  As it is, roads like the ones formerly part of Route 66 in the panhandle are having to pay for their own historic/brown signs to mark the route, because TxDOT can't/won't pay for them.  If there were the $$$$ and incentive, it would be interesting to see how far TxDOT would go as far as a rollout of previous-route historic/OLD signage.

As for the pic, I think the OLD and old-OH-route signage install really overpowers what is currently there--a county road signage labeling.  Seems like to me, they should be equal sizes <or> the OLD and OH route signage part should be a bit smaller than the signage of the current designation.  Otherwise, those out there who aren't road-scholar-ish might think that Logan CR 5 and OH 533 are an overlap.  And the topic: I don't think TX has ever done anything remotely like this.  The various Route 66 treatments since the 1980s in the panhandle (the white-on-green "Historic Route 66" signs along SW 6th in Amarillo, the black-on-white "Old Route 66" state-shape-on-brown east and west of Amarillo, and now the new gotta-pay-for-it-yourself new bigger brown-background historic 66 signs) have been the only TxDOT/local sign treatments in a historic/OLD sense (IIRR) in the whole state.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Scott5114 on February 27, 2019, 09:03:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that's a reassurance assembly that was installed when that was OH 533 and, when it was decommissioned, an OLD sticker was put over the directional banner. Which would explain why it's bigger than the CR signage.

Kansas did something similar with a US-69 shield when it was realigned—left the shield in place and just put a red diagonal slash over the shield.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on February 27, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
MnDOT will use something similar in the interim of turning back or renumbering a state Highway (though I believe this practice is skipped if the route is deemed not significant enough). MN 5 following its turnback in Washington County and MN 110’s recent renumbering as an extension of MM 62 are two recent examples in the metro.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Roadsguy on February 28, 2019, 12:31:34 AM
I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of an "Old PA 17" trailblazer on I-86 in northwest PA, presumably from shortly after the former PA 17 was decommissioned in favor of I-86. It might have been on the PA Highways gallery.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: hbelkins on February 28, 2019, 07:43:17 PM
Kentucky's practice is to sign a route as "Formerly xx" for about a year after a number changes. If a state route is turned over to a county, they just either take the signs down or leave them up without changes.

I know I have seen "Old" banners somewhere, but can't think off the top of my head where.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on February 28, 2019, 08:17:16 PM
Virginia also will do this for a year on some primary and secondary routes.  Not universal, though.  The practice dates back to at least the 1950s in Virginia...although the 1933 Official map says that old and new route numbers would be posted in the field following the massive July 1933 renumbering.  Never seen a photo of how they did that.  Which makes me wonder what is the oldest OLD posting like this?  I know of a 1935 example in South Carolina when US 401 was renumbered as US 15...

(http://www.vahighways.com/photos/misc/old44cutout.jpg)
from Nov 1952 Va Hwys Bulletin

(http://www.vahighways.com/scannex/route-log/images/us15-401sc.jpg)
postcard
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on February 28, 2019, 09:17:12 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: TheHighwayMan394 on February 28, 2019, 09:18:23 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau

Is that the street name? MN has “Old Highway X” in places as a physical street name.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: apeman33 on February 28, 2019, 09:43:12 PM
I'm pretty sure that's a reassurance assembly that was installed when that was OH 533 and, when it was decommissioned, an OLD sticker was put over the directional banner. Which would explain why it's bigger than the CR signage.

Kansas did something similar with a US-69 shield when it was realigned—left the shield in place and just put a red diagonal slash over the shield.

It was actually the country that posted the shield. I ran the pic in the Fort Scott Tribune when I worked there:
https://www.fstribune.com/story/1649927.html
(https://www.fstribune.com/photos/13/65/25/1365256-B.jpg)

The cutline, in case the link doesn't work:
"Motorists who inadvertently turn onto old U.S. Highway 69 just north of Pleasanton will find this unusual reminder that the road is no longer a highway. A red 'No' slash has been drawn through the shield. The back of the sign notes that the Linn County road department owns the sign. The current U.S. 69 opened about a half mile east of here earlier this year. (Copyright David L. Backlin, July 2010/Used with permission)"
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: hbelkins on March 01, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau

Is that the street name? MN has “Old Highway X” in places as a physical street name.

Happens frequently here too, where county roads aren't posted with a numbered system, and are signed with blades like city streets.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: ilpt4u on March 01, 2019, 12:51:10 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau

Is that the street name? MN has “Old Highway X” in places as a physical street name.

Happens frequently here too, where county roads aren't posted with a numbered system, and are signed with blades like city streets.
Happens in Illinois, too. In/around Carbondale, Old IL 13 and Old US 51 are both signed that way on Street blades, and also have IDOT standard county-based mile markers. Old 13 is identified as Route 913 on the Mile Markers. I forget what Old 51 is identified as on the mile markers

Also, these Old routes are still IDOT maintained
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: kphoger on March 01, 2019, 01:59:53 PM
In/around Carbondale, Old IL 13 and Old US 51 are both signed that way on Street blades, and also have IDOT standard county-based mile markers. Old 13 is identified as Route 913 on the Mile Markers. I forget what Old 51 is identified as on the mile markers

Also, these Old routes are still IDOT maintained

Those are remnants of the FAS highway system that used to be used in Illinois.  I've actually been expecting these numbers to gradually fade away from real life.  Despite Brandon having said...

IDOT still uses the FAx numbers as internal route numbers.  Examples: FAP-431 is now I-355, FAP-432 will be the IL-53 extension.  They use the FAI numbers as the interstate numbers.  For example, FAI-55 is I-55, FAI-74 is I-74.  The only FAx numbers I haven't seen from IDOT is the FAU series.

... the state government states:

Quote from: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/mobility/roads/roadway-functional-classification
FAU, FAS, FAP numbers are no longer used to depict route information, including functional classification or funding eligibility.  They also no longer appear on IDOT maps.  The key route designation is now used as the road's identifier.  The key route designation is the Key Route Type, a hyphen, and the Key Route Number available on IDOT's Getting Around Illinois map.

For example, Old 13 (with legacy FAS-913 reference markers remaning) is now referred to as 9-9629.

Old 51 (with legacy FAS-911 reference markers remaining) is now referred to as 3-1911.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: froggie on March 01, 2019, 02:08:47 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau

Is that the street name? MN has “Old Highway X” in places as a physical street name.

Yes, those are considered streetnames, and that sort of thing happens all over the country (as noted by the recently posted examples, amongst numerous others).
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: paulthemapguy on March 01, 2019, 02:15:10 PM
I have a picture of the same assembly lol...It was taken at the very end of February three years ago!

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1565/24827758964_00e5bb8b7d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DPWKKJ)
OH-533STNO (https://flic.kr/p/DPWKKJ) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr

As stated above, IDOT has a whole slew of state highways that are unsigned.  Many of them are sections of road that the state wanted to hand off to counties or local agencies, but the counties/local agencies refused to accept them.  Bill Burmaster's site has a whole page dedicated (http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/misc/il900.html) to finding these "secret Illinois routes."  Here's an image of one that I found on Maxwell Road in Peoria.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8818/27591181444_a1d96fa6a3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/J391YU)
IL-911-0MI (https://flic.kr/p/J391YU) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr

And, as stated in the post above, a street blade saying "Old State Route ###" doesn't necessarily mean the road continues to be state-maintained.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: ilpt4u on March 01, 2019, 02:53:01 PM
And, as stated in the post above, a street blade saying "Old State Route ###" doesn't necessarily mean the road continues to be state-maintained.
True. Old IL 13 between Carbondale and Murphysboro is actually signed where State Maintenance Begins and Ends
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: paulthemapguy on March 01, 2019, 04:01:52 PM
And, as stated in the post above, a street blade saying "Old State Route ###" doesn't necessarily mean the road continues to be state-maintained.
True. Old IL 13 between Carbondale and Murphysboro is actually signed where State Maintenance Begins and Ends

I'm pretty sure you can find some "913" mile markers along that stretch, looking like the one I showed in my photo.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 01, 2019, 04:08:40 PM
I'm tempted to suggest it might be a good designation for Old Northern Boulevard (Old NY 25A) in Roslyn, New York.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: ilpt4u on March 01, 2019, 04:27:28 PM
And, as stated in the post above, a street blade saying "Old State Route ###" doesn't necessarily mean the road continues to be state-maintained.
True. Old IL 13 between Carbondale and Murphysboro is actually signed where State Maintenance Begins and Ends

I'm pretty sure you can find some "913" mile markers along that stretch, looking like the one I showed in my photo.
You can. Pretty sure the are on the stretch between Carterville and Marion as well.

The stretch between Carterville and Carbondale...well its at the bottom of Crab Orchard Lake
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: kphoger on March 01, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8818/27591181444_a1d96fa6a3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/J391YU)
IL-911-0MI (https://flic.kr/p/J391YU) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr

This road is now a combination of route # 9-6577 and part of route # 2-0671.



And, as stated in the post above, a street blade saying "Old State Route ###" doesn't necessarily mean the road continues to be state-maintained.
True. Old IL 13 between Carbondale and Murphysboro is actually signed where State Maintenance Begins and Ends

I'm pretty sure you can find some "913" mile markers along that stretch, looking like the one I showed in my photo.
You can. Pretty sure the are on the stretch between Carterville and Marion as well.

The stretch between Carterville and Carbondale...well its at the bottom of Crab Orchard Lake

There were certainly FAS-913 reference markers on Old 13 west of Marion back when I lived the area before 2008.  I'm struggling to find any GSV shots of current ones along there, however.  As I said, I'm wondering if these will become relics of the past now that the numbers no longer mean anything.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 01, 2019, 05:46:48 PM
I don’t know the significance of it, but North Carolina has some roads signed as “Old NC ##,” not with route shields but with street signs. See link below from one I recall from my law school days—it’s probably the same sign, too.

https://goo.gl/maps/p2qdSMZXzau

Is that the street name? MN has “Old Highway X” in places as a physical street name.

As I said, I had never known what, if any, significance there was to it, which is part of why this thread prompted me to mention it when I remembered those signs.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on March 01, 2019, 09:34:01 PM
In my lengthy NC experience I don't recall seeing an OLD banner for a route shield (one 1970s renumbering, 168 to 34 just had 34 patches placed on all the 168 shields), but North Carolina in the pre-911 emergency number days used to refer to some roads as OLD on interstate BGSs.

Ones that I recall (some may still be up) were OLD US 64 in Old Fort; OLD US 70 in Hickory; OLD NC 10 in Hildebran; OLD NC 42 off US 1 near Apex (this is Ten Ten Rd which was Old 42 on its eastern end but AFAIK never all the way over to US 1).

A few OLD designations are also posted on the black and white destination signs that used to be everywhere in NC.  Otherwise they have been on street blade names.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 02, 2019, 08:25:12 AM
^^^^

All of which leads back to what I was getting at—what’s their significance? Do they in fact represent a former route-numbering scheme in which most of the old route numbers have been superseded by road names and, for whatever reason, a few haven’t been? Or is it something else? It’s certainly weird for a road near Durham to be called “Old NC 10” when there’s no “new” NC 10 nearby and all the other nearby roads have names (except maybe NC-751, which becomes Cameron Boulevard closer to Duke’s West Campus but, as far as I know, isn’t named through Duke Forest—the street sign at Kerley Road refers to it as “751 Hwy”).
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: NE2 on March 02, 2019, 08:41:13 AM
Who says the state approved it?
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 02, 2019, 10:07:34 AM
Who says the state approved it?

Assuming that comment is directed at me, I think the second and third sentences of my post directly above yours more or less ask that same question.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on March 02, 2019, 11:01:21 AM
^^^^

All of which leads back to what I was getting at—what’s their significance? Do they in fact represent a former route-numbering scheme in which most of the old route numbers have been superseded by road names and, for whatever reason, a few haven’t been? Or is it something else? It’s certainly weird for a road near Durham to be called “Old NC 10” when there’s no “new” NC 10 nearby and all the other nearby roads have names (except maybe NC-751, which becomes Cameron Boulevard closer to Duke’s West Campus but, as far as I know, isn’t named through Duke Forest—the street sign at Kerley Road refers to it as “751 Hwy”).

There are numerous examples of what you describe with NC 10...

OLD NC 75 Durham to Oxford hasn't been NC 75 since 1923.  The new NC 75 in that area was run along US 15 and NC 75 was deposted altogether in 1934.
OLD NC 13 Seagrove NE to US 64 hasn't been NC 13 since 1951.  There was no new NC 13...the corridor was downgraded to secondary status
OLD NC 515 southwest of Wadesboro (https://goo.gl/maps/dMFqZAxzZUN2) was not bypassed on new alignment until 15 years after NC 515 became NC 109 in 1934.  I believe this is named Old NC 515 because of the OLD NC 109 further southwest by the SC border (thus avoiding two roads with the OLD NC 109 name).
OLD 93 btw Pittsboro and Graham stopped being NC 93 in the 1930s when it was placed on today's NC 87.  The longer old alignment south of there (Old Graham Rd) used to be called OLD NC 87 even though it had never been NC 87.

There are innumerable roads named Old US 64, Old US 70 and Old US 74, plus other Old NC 10s (NC 10 was greatly reduced in 1934).

Is there some sort of system?  I don't believe so.  Not every former state route is named after that former designation.  For example old NC 284 from Cove Creek to TN is Cove Creek Rd.

Both photos below by Adam Prince:

(http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/ncscans/75pic.JPG)
(http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/ncscans/13pic.jpg)
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: dfilpus on March 02, 2019, 11:25:42 AM
^^^^

All of which leads back to what I was getting at—what’s their significance? Do they in fact represent a former route-numbering scheme in which most of the old route numbers have been superseded by road names and, for whatever reason, a few haven’t been? Or is it something else? It’s certainly weird for a road near Durham to be called “Old NC 10” when there’s no “new” NC 10 nearby and all the other nearby roads have names (except maybe NC-751, which becomes Cameron Boulevard closer to Duke’s West Campus but, as far as I know, isn’t named through Duke Forest—the street sign at Kerley Road refers to it as “751 Hwy”).
North Carolina had a state highway system before the US Highway System was created. NC 10 was the longest state highway that was designated from Beaufort to the Tennessee state line past Murphy. When the US highways were designated in North Carolina, they replaced the old state highway designations. NC 10 was replaced by US 70 east of Asheville and US 19 west of Asheville. NC 75 was replaced by US 15 north of Durham. The roads named "Old NC 10" were so designated when NC 10 was rerouted before the US 70 designation. There is a web page dedicated to them at http://roadgeek.filpus.org/OldNC10.html
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: NE2 on March 02, 2019, 01:27:02 PM
Who says the state approved it?

Assuming that comment is directed at me, I think the second and third sentences of my post directly above yours more or less ask that same question.

I'm directing it at the original post.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 02, 2019, 01:33:02 PM
^^^^

All of which leads back to what I was getting at—what’s their significance? Do they in fact represent a former route-numbering scheme in which most of the old route numbers have been superseded by road names and, for whatever reason, a few haven’t been? Or is it something else? It’s certainly weird for a road near Durham to be called “Old NC 10” when there’s no “new” NC 10 nearby and all the other nearby roads have names (except maybe NC-751, which becomes Cameron Boulevard closer to Duke’s West Campus but, as far as I know, isn’t named through Duke Forest—the street sign at Kerley Road refers to it as “751 Hwy”).
North Carolina had a state highway system before the US Highway System was created. NC 10 was the longest state highway that was designated from Beaufort to the Tennessee state line past Murphy. When the US highways were designated in North Carolina, they replaced the old state highway designations. NC 10 was replaced by US 70 east of Asheville and US 19 west of Asheville. NC 75 was replaced by US 15 north of Durham. The roads named "Old NC 10" were so designated when NC 10 was rerouted before the US 70 designation. There is a web page dedicated to them at http://roadgeek.filpus.org/OldNC10.html


Thanks! That's exactly what I was asking.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 04, 2019, 09:25:41 PM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?
Otherwise, all our numeral designations become meaningless?
And we don't want 13,740 posts to become....meaningless, do we?

Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2019, 09:37:09 PM
Came upon the following outside Bellefountaine, Ohio today:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7849/47232895001_b5a970855e_z.jpg)

Now, we've all seen the various 'Historic Route' signage across the nation, but I've never seen ODOT do this in regards to *expired* Ohio routes before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Route_533).

I'm pretty sure that's a reassurance assembly that was installed when that was OH 533 and, when it was decommissioned, an OLD sticker was put over the directional banner.

Who says the state approved it?

Hot Rod Hootenanny:  Now, now, I think that's a legitimate question.  What proof do you have that ODOT had any say whatsoever in how a route was signed that's no longer theirs?  Do you have any evidence that signing the road as OLD 533 wasn't, in fact, a decision the county made without any ODOT involvement?
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Kulerage on March 04, 2019, 09:58:00 PM
Sufficient to say that I have never seen these in person. Probably because the new highway paths here are clearly marked when they're changed.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Scott5114 on March 05, 2019, 06:37:09 PM
More fun with Kansas and "Old"—the sign is KDOT's, but the name was probably chosen by the city governments responsible.
(https://i.imgur.com/ukiiGN4.jpg)

The sign that was posted before this was demountable copy and said "Old Hwy 56".
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: bing101 on March 06, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
Lewis Brown Drive in Vallejo,CA was initially signed as Old Highway 37 back in 2005-2006 because of the freeway section of CA-37 was recently constructed between the Fairgrounds drive exit to the Mare Island Bridge.

But that was a case when Lewis Brown Drive was transitioning from Caltrans maintenance to the City of Vallejo when the Old Highway 37 sign was out.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: ClassicHasClass on March 06, 2019, 09:30:48 AM
Never seen "OLD" banners in California, but if these count, then Old Highways 58, 80 and 395 should too (they're well-signed from the subsequent freeway alignments and known as such), and arguably the various former alignments of US 66 when Caltrans puts up HISTORIC ROUTE signage. There are also the various locally signed Historic Route shields (6, 40, 66, 80, 99, 101, 395 and probably others), but these are usually erected by cities or counties, so they probably don't count here.

There's also the edge case of 14U, itself a former alignment of US 6 where an unrelinquished alignment actually got signed by the state that way (parallel to modern CA 14): https://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/mass/#14u
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 06, 2019, 05:58:23 PM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?

....

What is a “Federal” shield?
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: kphoger on March 06, 2019, 06:02:40 PM
I didn't understand the whole gist of his post.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: vdeane on March 06, 2019, 08:40:55 PM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?

....

What is a “Federal” shield?
Something viatologists sing about, I think.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: GaryV on March 06, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Michigan has quite a few locally named roads (county mostly) that are called "Old xx".

One of the most unique is Old 99 in Muskegon and Oceana County.  It was originally part of the West Michigan Pike, which later became Trunk Line 11 and then M-11.  It was replaced by US-31 in 1926.  But the a portion of the original road remains as "Old 99" to this day, 100 years later.

Old US-27 even has a county pentagon shield with that designation, northwest of Vanderbilt.  https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1847298,-84.6728104,3a,75y,233.24h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggHFPmG0dlLTrr44pjtCig!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en  (Trust me, it says Old 27)
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: catch22 on March 07, 2019, 09:42:21 AM

Old US-27 even has a county pentagon shield with that designation, northwest of Vanderbilt.  https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1847298,-84.6728104,3a,75y,233.24h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggHFPmG0dlLTrr44pjtCig!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en  (Trust me, it says Old 27)


Otsego County does this too:

https://goo.gl/maps/pcJ6GaKAcjx
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: hbelkins on March 07, 2019, 11:02:23 AM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?

....

What is a “Federal” shield?
Something viatologists sing about, I think.

Saving that video for posterity may have been my single greatest worldly accomplishment.  :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: ftballfan on March 07, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
Michigan has quite a few locally named roads (county mostly) that are called "Old xx".

One of the most unique is Old 99 in Muskegon and Oceana County.  It was originally part of the West Michigan Pike, which later became Trunk Line 11 and then M-11.  It was replaced by US-31 in 1926.  But the a portion of the original road remains as "Old 99" to this day, 100 years later.

Old US-27 even has a county pentagon shield with that designation, northwest of Vanderbilt.  https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1847298,-84.6728104,3a,75y,233.24h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggHFPmG0dlLTrr44pjtCig!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en  (Trust me, it says Old 27)

Original M-99 and M-11 did coexist in 1919: http://seekingmichigan.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p129401coll3/id/2403/rec/79
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: NE2 on March 07, 2019, 05:40:13 PM
Original M-99 and M-11 did coexist in 1919: http://seekingmichigan.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p129401coll3/id/2403/rec/79
I'm pretty sure that map does not actually show what the highways were like in 1919, given that it doesn't jibe with the numbering in decreasing order of length. But yes, 99 and 11 existed at the same time.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: 1995hoo on March 07, 2019, 06:12:52 PM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?

....

What is a “Federal” shield?
Something viatologists sing about, I think.

At least he spells his last name correctly.  :D
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: jp the roadgeek on March 08, 2019, 10:20:35 AM
Borrowing this one from the New Hampshire thread.  On I-89:

(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_hampshire089/i-089_sb_exit_015_03.jpg)
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: kphoger on March 08, 2019, 01:37:12 PM
Have any of the submissions to this thread exhibited any evidence of actually being "state approved" (as the thread title asks)?
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on March 08, 2019, 03:06:21 PM
Have any of the submissions to this thread exhibited any evidence of actually being "state approved" (as the thread title asks)?

Here is an example.  I forgot about this...

Virginia does have a concept of Old State Route (OSR).  When a primary route is rerouted onto new construction, the previous route sometimes becomes an OSR until its ultimate designation is determined.  The two likely outcomes are abandonment or convert to the secondary system.

The OSR concept goes back to at least the 1970s.

Only one shows explicitly in the 2017 traffic logs, OSR 234 in Independent Hill.  Oddly, the old 234 through there is SR 3245 on one end, SR 619 in the middle and OSR 234 on the southern end.

Go to pg 18 for OSR 234 reference - http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/Traffic_2017/AADT_076_PrinceWilliam_2017.pdf
Go to pg. 20 for OSR 15-29 reference (this is now SR 762 between Culpeper and Brandy Station) - http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/AADT_1975.pdf
Go to pg. 147 for OSR 57 reference in 1980 (this is now VA 457) - http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/AADT_1980.pdf

The old on-line VDOT map that is no longer available would show them.  I am aware of a few more that have existed.

To my knowledge I don't recall seeing one posted in the field as anything at all.

The old VA 175 approach to Chincoteague may be an OSR route as well since 2010.  Traffic logs show it as if were a separate VA 175 stub off VA 175.  It is still not posted in the field as anything as of Nov 2016 GMSV.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: bulldog1979 on March 08, 2019, 09:17:48 PM

Old US-27 even has a county pentagon shield with that designation, northwest of Vanderbilt.  https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1847298,-84.6728104,3a,75y,233.24h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggHFPmG0dlLTrr44pjtCig!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en  (Trust me, it says Old 27)


Otsego County does this too:

https://goo.gl/maps/pcJ6GaKAcjx


Considering that Vanderbilt is in Otsego County, yes, they do. Cheboygan County does not call old US 27 anything other than South Straits Highway, its original road name.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: dlsterner on March 08, 2019, 11:33:57 PM
Here's one on eastbound MD 450 in Bowie, Maryland.  The "OLD" sign is referring to an old alignment of the route.  Although the sign looks pretty much "official", I don't know if it really is, or if it just is there to help drivers locate businesses on the old alignment.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.972061,-76.7730224,3a,75y,93.08h,89.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfCsePqLvYWEdbbMtiwQP9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.972061,-76.7730224,3a,75y,93.08h,89.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfCsePqLvYWEdbbMtiwQP9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


(First time adding Google Street View picture - if I did it wrong, kindly let me know the proper way)
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: NE2 on March 09, 2019, 08:57:31 AM
Who says the state approved it?

I'm directing it at the original post.

Since when do State/Federal/Interstate shields get placed along any sort of road out there?
Otherwise, all our numeral designations become meaningless?
And we don't want 13,740 posts to become....meaningless, do we?



The question stands. Don't be a knob.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on March 09, 2019, 10:26:46 AM
Here's one on eastbound MD 450 in Bowie, Maryland.  The "OLD" sign is referring to an old alignment of the route.  Although the sign looks pretty much "official", I don't know if it really is, or if it just is there to help drivers locate businesses on the old alignment.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.972061,-76.7730224,3a,75y,93.08h,89.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfCsePqLvYWEdbbMtiwQP9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.972061,-76.7730224,3a,75y,93.08h,89.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfCsePqLvYWEdbbMtiwQP9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


(First time adding Google Street View picture - if I did it wrong, kindly let me know the proper way)

GMSV was added correctly...this posting goes back for sure to at least 2008 (GMSV) and likely back to when it was bypassed in 2003.

This is unusual for Maryland IMO.  Officially that road is MD 450B.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: catch22 on March 09, 2019, 01:31:11 PM

Old US-27 even has a county pentagon shield with that designation, northwest of Vanderbilt.  https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1847298,-84.6728104,3a,75y,233.24h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggHFPmG0dlLTrr44pjtCig!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en  (Trust me, it says Old 27)


Otsego County does this too:

https://goo.gl/maps/pcJ6GaKAcjx


Considering that Vanderbilt is in Otsego County, yes, they do. Cheboygan County does not call old US 27 anything other than South Straits Highway, its original road name.

Brain fade on my part.  For some reason I pictured Vanderbilt in Cheboygan County.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: hbelkins on March 09, 2019, 03:54:25 PM
Just remembered where I've seen state-installed "OLD" banners before. One used to be on Alternate US 58 near Coeburn, Va., before the old route was renumbered as VA 158. Some "Old" banners still exist, including some over top of cutouts, on VA 74 in Norton. I do have pics; maybe I'll get motivated to find them and post links.
Title: Re: State approved 'old highway' routes
Post by: Mapmikey on March 09, 2019, 04:06:51 PM
Just remembered where I've seen state-installed "OLD" banners before. One used to be on Alternate US 58 near Coeburn, Va., before the old route was renumbered as VA 158. Some "Old" banners still exist, including some over top of cutouts, on VA 74 in Norton. I do have pics; maybe I'll get motivated to find them and post links.

There were 3 Norton locations with these...

(http://www.vahighways.com/va-ends/va000/va074_wt_03.jpg)
2008...GMSV shows still there as of Apr 2018

(http://www.vahighways.com/cutouts/images/us58anorton.jpg)
Kentucky Ave leaving 12th, 2008.  This stopped being 58 ALT in 1988.

(http://www.vahighways.com/va-ends/old/old074norton_et.jpg)
2008.  Straight and right have both been 58 ALT.  Right stopped being 58 ALT in 1959.  Straight is the other end of Kentucky Ave

In addition to Coeburn there were (still?) old 58 shields where 58 ALT bypassed Dryden
https://goo.gl/maps/7E6xoy4HSmT2