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Regional Boards => Mid-South => Topic started by: msubulldog on September 20, 2012, 12:22:56 AM

Title: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: msubulldog on September 20, 2012, 12:22:56 AM
Hasn't this portion of 75 for years been considered to be of Interstate standard, warranting designation as I-45?
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: amroad17 on September 20, 2012, 01:35:43 AM
The part of the highway from I-30 to the Woodall Rogers Freeway is interstate standard and is unsigned I-345.  I believe, for clarity, that section is signed for US 75 northbound and I-45 southbound instead of having I-345 signed for the 1/2 mile between the "official " termini of US 75 and I-45.  As far as US 75 further north is concerned, parts may be interstate standard, but not all of it.  If it was all interstate standard, an extension of I-45 would be the most logical choice here.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: bugo on September 20, 2012, 02:23:47 AM
It appears to be interstate standard in Texas, but it quickly drops to a 4 lane expressway north of the Red River.  It could be extended to US 69 in Denison if you really wanted to.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Perfxion on September 20, 2012, 06:18:14 AM
You would think OK and Texas, would make this an expressway to Tulsa, or atleast Texas would want 45 to extend beyond Dallas to turn one of its three Intrastates, into Interstates.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: NE2 on September 20, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
I-45 not entering another state is definitely a major issue for Texas. Not.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: rte66man on September 20, 2012, 01:34:22 PM
You would think OK and Texas, would make this an expressway to Tulsa, or atleast Texas would want 45 to extend beyond Dallas to turn one of its three Intrastates, into Interstates.

OK has no money to make 69 into a freeway nor do they have the political will to bypass all those towns between Durant and Big Cabin.  Those places make a killing from fast food and speeding tickets I'm looking at you Stringtown). They tried to float a new route just east of 69 as a toll road about 15 years ago, but it never got past committee hearings.  The cities along the route killed it then and they have the ability to kill it now.

rte66man
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Road Hog on October 02, 2012, 09:23:24 AM
US 75 is interstate standard all the way to the Red River. In fact, it has an HOV lane through Richardson and Plano and (way overdue) construction is under way to widen it through McKinney. The highway is still a little treacherous through Sherman with short on- and off-ramps and acceleration lanes, but TxDOT is addressing this piecemeal.

And rte66man described the highway in Oklahoma accurately. Parts of it (around Durant and from McAlester to I-40) are freeway, but it goes through little town after little town.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Scott5114 on October 05, 2012, 08:44:53 PM
US 75 is interstate standard all the way to the Red River. In fact, it has an HOV lane through Richardson and Plano and (way overdue) construction is under way to widen it through McKinney. The highway is still a little treacherous through Sherman with short on- and off-ramps and acceleration lanes, but TxDOT is addressing this piecemeal.

And rte66man described the highway in Oklahoma accurately. Parts of it (around Durant and from McAlester to I-40) are freeway, but it goes through little town after little town.

Where it = US 69. US 75 drops off the freeway at some point and stays two-lane until I-40, at which point it becomes an expressway, and only returns to full freeway as it comes into Tulsa.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Road Hog on October 06, 2012, 08:40:51 AM
Right. U.S. 69/75 is duplexed from the Red River to Atoka, where 69 continues north as an expressway to McAlester. From just north of McAlester to I-40 it is full controlled access.

I made the mistake once of veering off on 75 going to Tulsa from Atoka. Extremely slow.

Going between Dallas and Tulsa, you want to take 69/75 to the Indian Nation Turnpike, go north to Henryetta and continue on 75 north.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: rte66man on October 08, 2012, 01:39:45 PM

I made the mistake once of veering off on 75 going to Tulsa from Atoka. Extremely slow.


What, you didn't like Weleetka and Coalgate. VERY scenic.

rte66man
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: corco on October 08, 2012, 11:08:28 PM
The stretch from Durant to Henrietta is gorgeous and fun to drive- that's one of my favorite major highways in the country.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Road Hog on October 12, 2012, 09:12:34 AM
Interesting. Here's a local story about a push to upgrade the 69/75 corridor:

http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/task-force-working-make-us-highway-75-interstate.html
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: us175 on October 12, 2012, 04:56:32 PM
Interesting. Here's a local story about a push to upgrade the 69/75 corridor:

http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/task-force-working-make-us-highway-75-interstate.html

Well.  Nice to see something tangible about this issue in the press or on the local level one way or the other.  Assuming the TEX-21 representation(s) do lead to something past the pipe-dream stage (without the thread going fictional), does the final result resemble:

-- US 75 overlapping I-45 between Dallas and Atoka?
-- US 75 being truncated to Atoka?
-- OK cities still having thru-town routes?
-- OK cities all bypassed?
-- Big Cabin/I-44 new northern I-45 terminus?
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Road Hog on October 12, 2012, 05:36:27 PM
Quote
Magers said TEX-21 has received the support of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation and is working to get representatives from the Choctaw Nation and Chickasaw Nation onboard as well.

The bold part is surprising if true. ODOT has been the biggest obstacle to any upgrade. There has been not one improvement on that road in the last 15 years, except for removing a couple of farm crossings north of McAlester.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: wxfree on October 12, 2012, 05:56:46 PM
Quote
Magers said TEX-21 has received the support of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation and is working to get representatives from the Choctaw Nation and Chickasaw Nation onboard as well.

The bold part is surprising if true. ODOT has been the biggest obstacle to any upgrade. There has been not one improvement on that road in the last 15 years, except for removing a couple of farm crossings north of McAlester.

Often, "to be on-board" means "to speak in favor of a popular project, while doing nothing in furtherance of it."
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Scott5114 on October 13, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
I dunno if ODOT could be considered an obstacle. I doubt they outright oppose a US 69 upgrade; rather, it is not a priority at the moment. ODOT is currently focusing on its bridge rehab program, as well as some major projects on existing roads, which doesn't leave a whole lot left in the budget for big stuff like freeway upgrades.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: bugo on October 13, 2012, 02:21:46 PM
Wasn't the proposed US 69 bypass intended to be a turnpike?
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Brian556 on October 14, 2012, 07:03:23 PM
This sign is kinda interesting, and suggestive of what is being discussed:

(http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Brian5561/10142012013.jpg)
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: rte66man on October 14, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
Wasn't the proposed US 69 bypass intended to be a turnpike?

Yes, that was the only way it can be done given the current funding for roads in OK.  Politics being what they are, the SE boys are spending their share on widening US70 from Ardmore to Broken Bow.  NOthing left for any other major projects.

rte66man
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: bugo on October 14, 2012, 08:54:04 PM
Does US 70 really get that much traffic?  I drove it from Durant to Broken Bow once and didn't see all that much traffic, but it was a Sunday.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: rte66man on October 15, 2012, 02:19:40 PM
Does US 70 really get that much traffic?  I drove it from Durant to Broken Bow once and didn't see all that much traffic, but it was a Sunday.

It's not so much the volume as it is the logging trucks. Weyerhauser has some very large tree operations in that part of the state. Those logging trucks are a pain to deal with on a 2-lane. Very slow AND people forget thay can't stop on a dime.

Besides, the SE boys needed a bone in the 1997 bill that funded the latest spurt of road building in the state. GARVEE bonds.

rte66man
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: bugo on May 29, 2018, 04:59:22 AM
The stretch from Durant to Henrietta is gorgeous and fun to drive- that's one of my favorite major highways in the country.

The stretch between McAlester and Durant is not fun to drive at all for me. The Indian Nation Turnpike stretch is fine, other than some bumpy pavement. 4 lanes, limited access, 75 MPH speed limit and low traffic volumes. What more could you ask for?
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Perfxion on May 29, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
Holy necro post batman!
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: Bobby5280 on May 29, 2018, 02:40:15 PM
Regarding US-75 North of downtown Dallas: It appears to be Interstate quality. But I really have to wonder about the outer shoulders on some parts of it between downtown and just South of McKinney. Some of those shoulders look a bit too narrow. And then there's little to no inside shoulder on much of it, particularly the stretches with the single HOV lanes. The HOV lanes are hugged right up next to the concrete Jersey barrier. Once the HOV lanes end at Bethany Road US-75 North of there appears to be compliant with the latest Interstate standards up to where the new US-75 expansion/construction ends. I'm used to seeing rumble strips on the edge of the right lane and right shoulder on Interstate highways. It doesn't appear to be there on any of this new construction. But rumble strips are present on the older US-75 lanes leading up to the Red River.

Quote from: bugo
The stretch between McAlester and Durant is not fun to drive at all for me. The Indian Nation Turnpike stretch is fine, other than some bumpy pavement. 4 lanes, limited access, 75 MPH speed limit and low traffic volumes. What more could you ask for?

Obviously the turnpike should have somehow been built up to Tulsa rather than just ending in Henryetta. US-75 from the Red River to McAlester can be a slog due to the combination of high volume truck traffic and traffic lights in places like Atoka. Speed traps are an aggravation.

Planned improvements in McAlester, Muskogee and Calera will convert a few more miles of US-69 to freeway quality. Hopefully those upgrades will pave the way for more freeway upgrades to happen elsewhere on the route. When enough of it is upgraded through the years maybe the obstructionists in Atoka and Stringtown will lose some of their clout during that time, or just get old and die off.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: US71 on May 31, 2018, 07:16:06 PM
The stretch from Durant to Henrietta is gorgeous and fun to drive- that's one of my favorite major highways in the country.

The stretch between McAlester and Durant is not fun to drive at all for me. The Indian Nation Turnpike stretch is fine, other than some bumpy pavement. 4 lanes, limited access, 75 MPH speed limit and low traffic volumes. What more could you ask for?

FREE :)
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: captkirk_4 on June 11, 2018, 02:08:07 AM
Interesting. Here's a local story about a push to upgrade the 69/75 corridor:

http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/task-force-working-make-us-highway-75-interstate.html

Well.  Nice to see something tangible about this issue in the press or on the local level one way or the other.  Assuming the TEX-21 representation(s) do lead to something past the pipe-dream stage (without the thread going fictional), does the final result resemble:

-- US 75 overlapping I-45 between Dallas and Atoka?
-- US 75 being truncated to Atoka?
-- OK cities still having thru-town routes?
-- OK cities all bypassed?
-- Big Cabin/I-44 new northern I-45 terminus?

I just drove this route today from Lewisville TX to Big Cabin 260 miles and it took me 5 hours! If this was an interstate at 75mph the trip could be 3 and a half hours. It really got slow from Muskogee to Big Cabin with lots of slow downs and lights. The southern part was more rural with mostly 70 speed limits but a few slow downs, saw a speed trap in action in Caney where it slowed to 55 for a very rural crossing with no town anywhere visible. You know, even if Oklahoma isn't up to it you'd think the federal government would step in to finish a direct interstate route from Chicago to Dallas. Wasn't the original interstate project a national security enterprise done by Eisenhower?

On an off I have to say DFW has a very confusing road system with strange frontage roads with weird loops, not like the simple frontages I see in Arkansas and Kenosha County WI. Found it very difficult to get to the Waffle House a half mile from my motel.
Title: Re: US 75 North of I-45's end in Dallas
Post by: sparker on June 11, 2018, 02:34:21 PM
On an off I have to say DFW has a very confusing road system with strange frontage roads with weird loops, not like the simple frontages I see in Arkansas and Kenosha County WI. Found it very difficult to get to the Waffle House a half mile from my motel.

I-10 immediately east of El Paso has much the same freeway/frontage road configuration; if you're on a frontage road (single direction) and wish to get to something behind you (like your hypothetical Waffle House), you need to (a) head to the nearest major intersecting street, (b) use the crossover curving under the freeway to the opposite-direction frontage road, (c) take that frontage road back in the opposing direction to the next crossing street, then (d) repeat the crossover process in reverse, and, finally (e) head down your original frontage road to the restaurant.  This was the major stopping point when I was making numerous trips in the '90's ferrying my elderly parents from the L.A. area to visit family in SE Oklahoma.  My late dad, who was generally the most stoical of folks, actually piped up regarding this very process (I think the restaurant in question was a IHOP), calling it a "fucking pain in the ass!"  Unfortunately, given the TX urban frontage-road "philosophy", it's not at all uncommon!