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Author Topic: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)  (Read 1032 times)

Roadsguy

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2019, 07:50:34 PM »

On a related note, is the I-73/74 Airport Connector linking the I-73/NC 68 interchange at the airport to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway still being studied? The project tolbs17 just shared seems to functionally replace the eastern half of this connector as well as the included link to the I-40/Business 40 interchange.
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sprjus4

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2019, 08:02:29 PM »

On a related note, is the I-73/74 Airport Connector linking the I-73/NC 68 interchange at the airport to the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway still being studied? The project tolbs17 just shared seems to functionally replace the eastern half of this connector as well as the included link to the I-40/Business 40 interchange.
I don't see the point of it IMO, I-40 / I-40 Business is an adequate connection. The airport to I-40 West access could be improved by way of the High Point freeway, but the rest isn't needed.
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RoadPelican

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2019, 10:32:49 PM »

NC 68 is the most direct route between the west side of Greensboro and central High Point.  As someone who commutes daily along NC 68, I will say that this project is needed NOW.  I don't get why NCDOT is building the Jamestown bypass when I-85 and Business 85 are already more than adequate for traffic on that side of Guilford County.

A Western expressway bypass of High Point is most definitely needed.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2019, 10:54:00 PM »

NC 68 is the most direct route between the west side of Greensboro and central High Point.  As someone who commutes daily along NC 68, I will say that this project is needed NOW.  I don't get why NCDOT is building the Jamestown bypass when I-85 and Business 85 are already more than adequate for traffic on that side of Guilford County.

A Western expressway bypass of High Point is most definitely needed.
Maybe we should pitch to NCDOT if this project is still alive. Especially they didn't leave the grading for I-73 for an airport connection to the northern beltway.
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formulanone

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2019, 07:23:15 AM »

1) North Carolina is pretty much only rivaled by Texas for overall speed/ease of new route construction. You could be stuck in Alabama watching almost nothing new happen to our roads, year after year, and most planning never gets further than the drawing board and a press release. Or somewhere in the northeast where development and history has hemmed in a lot of potential right-of-way. Or almost anywhere else that either has no money, a lot of opposition to these projects, and actual environmental/engineering issues.

2) The traffic issues in Triad, Triangle, and Charlotte (vaguely in that order) seem to come first. Even though the Triad is the third-largest agglomeration in the state, they planned for growth and made room for ROW. Yes, there's growth by having a beltway and future interstates in your area, but this isn't SimCity...this takes time, and instant route gratification is a myth. Temper your expectations.

3) You're in the Greenville area; while there's some growth, pretty much any city within 500 miles of the Eastern Seaboard or any major city in the South can brag about similar percentages of population and traffic growth. Look at it this way, Asheville gets more tourism but there's been almost nothing added to the highway system there in the past 20 years (for a variety of reasons), so as least you're not that far behind in catching up with traffic numbers.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 07:34:05 AM by formulanone »
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sprjus4

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2019, 07:36:06 AM »

Look at it this way, Asheville gets more tourism but there's been almost nothing added to the highway system there in the past 20 years (for a variety of reasons), so as least you're not that far behind in catching up with traffic numbers.
In fairness, about 20 miles of I-26 between Asheville and Hendersonville were recently placed under construction widening the highway from 4 to 8 lanes in the northern section, and from 4 to 6 lanes in the southern section.

The construction of I-26 north of Mars Hill was completed back in 2003, less than 20 years ago.

Asheville is a larger metro area than Greenville overall, and has more traffic demands both thru and local having both I-26 and I-40 passing thru the area. Older, substandard freeways that aren't adequate, urban routes, etc. then there's the cluster *** that the I-26 / I-240 junction is.

Greenville's freeway system is relatively new compared to Asheville and plenty adequate for the traffic it sees.

Keep in mind, Greenville has gotten a decent amount of access to/from improvements over the past 20 years. The completion of the US-64 freeway to Williamston and the widening of US-13 to 4-lanes between Greenville and US-64 has opened up a new 4-lane route to Hampton Roads and Northeastern North Carolina, the completion of the US-264 freeway around Wilson has completed a 4-lane freeway route between Greenville, I-95 (in both directions), and Raleigh, and effectively then to I-85 and I-40. Greenville has better freeway connections than Hampton Roads does when it comes to connections to interstate highways such as I-95 South, I-85 South, and I-40 West, and it's far smaller than Hampton Roads.

My opinion is the local road projects should be accelerated in Greenville, and in the future as growth continues, construction of a southeastern loop may be warranted, but that's about it. There's no need for miles upon miles of rural freeway construction to supplement existing 4-lane routes that only connect to minor population centers, such as US-64 to US-70, or US-264 to Washington. There may be a local desire, and that's great, but it's going to be far low of a priority funding wise. If the funding comes around after all the other issues in the state have been dealt with, then that's great, but these local interstate concepts can only be realistically A) not built and left as is with 4-lane rural highways, or B) built in many segments, piece by piece.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 07:50:53 AM by sprjus4 »
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2019, 11:50:13 AM »

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/FS-1002B_Feasibility-Study_Report_2016.pdf

This project is also a big one for Greenville. It's a hybrid 6/8 lane boulevard design, (the existing right now is a 5-lane major thoroughfare) but I would make a couple of changes.

Greenville Blvd and Memorial Dr intersection

The reason why I put a question mark here is because of people having to wait a light before turning. This is a very congested intersection, and the main flow of the traffic is from SB Greenville Blvd to SB Memorial Dr.
 
http://prntscr.com/q8wpz0

As for this one, this one is perfect because it shows a free flowing ramp where many people wait to turn.
http://prntscr.com/q8wphs

Greenville Blvd and Evans

Question mark here because it looks sort of odd having to grade separate a railroad track with an at-grade intersection. It would also take out the sharp left turns on evans from the main intersection too.
http://prntscr.com/q8wsn6

Who can find a better interchange design than this? this loops pretty good, but it runs through a neighborhood and we can possible try to avoid that.
http://prntscr.com/q8x58g

Just normal upgrades without any bridges, eh.
http://prntscr.com/q8x5xt

NOTE: this is incomplete, but I will put in more.
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vdeane

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2019, 12:53:33 PM »

Speaking of I-26, when is NC going to close the gap with respect to the part that is officially designated and signed?
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goobnav

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2019, 01:28:23 PM »

Speaking of I-26, when is NC going to close the gap with respect to the part that is officially designated and signed?

Not until the said cluster **** interchange with I-26 and I-240 is completed and I-240 is widened in the area around the interchange.
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vdeane

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2019, 01:42:08 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
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goobnav

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2019, 03:38:17 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.

Being from NY, I'm sure you have traveled through PA and there are Interstates that supposed to be complete and were and still are substandard, I-476 for example for one.  Personal experience being a Scranton/Wilkes-Barre native.  I-81, another example.  I-76 through Philly proper.  Those examples have areas with little to no shoulders, ramps that are no way near long enough to accelerate to Interstate speeds, here's the kicker I-676 has a traffic light!

At least the I-26 and I-240 is a quasi Interstate junction that is more functional than the examples above so the signage, stating "Future" is still warranted.

Link to project below, projected start date is 2021:

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
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wdcrft63

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2019, 06:17:31 PM »

And when will they do that?  I-26 has been sitting for so long that IMO the portion going into TN shouldn't have been designated at all - at least not until this was done.

Maybe NC and other states would be less gung ho about getting new interstate corridors if they actually had to follow through before they could start benefiting.  It annoys me how so many interstates are in disarray because of segments that won't be built for a long time, if ever.  IMO an interstate shouldn't be allowed to be signed if the addition to the system only makes sense if some other project gets built some day.  Requiring that the system be coherent 100% of the time, with no allowances for planned projects, would protect against things like this.
NCDOT has not ignored the need to rebuild the I-26/I-240 connections in Asheville; it has been working on this problem for many years. The problem has been that Asheville is NIMBY heaven and NCDOT has had to fight over and over again to make any progress. However, a plan is now in place and work could begin as soon as 2021 unless there's yet another hangup.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2019, 07:07:03 PM »

And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2019, 07:21:18 PM »

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1210A_Report_2014.pdf

Is this project still alive or dead?

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_9196006_Report_1997.pdf

For this one, can we possible have this project come back to life because it looks weird looking at a half interchange that was planned a long time ago and nothing has happened.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2019, 08:24:48 PM »

The second feasibility study you linked includes on Page 5 some future ramps at the I-40/Wade Avenue interchange indicating a new road heading north from there labeled "Reedy Road." Page 2 mentions traffic entering I-40 EB from Reedy Creek Road, implying that this is at least a connector to that road. How long was this still proposed? I can't find any information on it, or at least what information there is is drowned out among talk of I-40 widening and the I-440 improvements.
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Cemajr

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2019, 08:27:39 PM »

And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.

Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2019, 08:43:27 PM »

And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.

Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
You think Greenville is not that large of a city? Well its population is getting close to 100,000...

Make NC 11 a freeway from Greenville to Jacksonville (Phase 1) and a freeway from Jacksonville to Wilmington (Phase 2)!

https://www.jdnews.com/news/20180218/jacksonville-could-see-interstate-access-soon

If you look at the map, 1 and 5 are the most useful. 6 as well (It's not part of the Greenville to Wilmington highway though).
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sprjus4

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2019, 08:57:24 PM »

And Greenville's freeway system are pretty much all bypasses.

Where else would Greenville need a freeway besides bypasses? It's not that large of a city and for the most part it's isolated as far as location goes. There's no significant city anywhere east or north of it so there wouldn't be any point of a freeway that went through the town. Even Kinston to the south has lost a lot of its significance since the 90s so the current 60 mph NC 11 is pretty adequate for that connection. I'd say it makes perfect sense as is that it's the end of the line on a freeway coming from the west connecting it to Raleigh/Durham.
The only freeway I could reasonably see built is along the Greenville Blvd corridor from the NC-11 Bypass to US-264. Only issue is development has gotten in the way of any ideal path for a local freeway route to be constructed.

It also wouldn't hurt to relocate the northern end of the NC-11 Bypass from NC-33 to NC-11 to provide a seamless connection and bypass the interchange area, though reasonably this would only get built if the NC-11 between I-42 and I-87 was incorporated into a 3d route of one of those interstates, and the priority for such a project alone is very low as the existing highways are plenty adequate. Keep in mind the section between Greenville and US-64, along with the construction of the US-64 freeway between NC-11 and Williamston, all in the past 20 years opened up a new 4-lane route to northeastern NC and Hampton Roads that did not previously exist.

Once I-87 is completed to Virginia, I could see the desire to upgrade NC-11, at least between Greenville and Bethel, in order to have direct interstate access to Hampton Roads, but that's decades away. Any limited money for interstate upgrade should be used to upgrade US-17 to interstate standards between Williamston and Virginia before the stretch of NC-11 is ever started.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 08:59:26 PM by sprjus4 »
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tolbs17

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Re: Angry rant about NCDOT and their road projects (Language adjusted)
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2019, 04:31:50 PM »

Who the hell would choose this alternative for the future interchange redesign at I-440 and Glenwood?

Alternative 1 - Meh. Does its job but it's a little too curvy.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-1-map-1.pdf

Alternative 2 - Pretty cool, except the relocations.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-2-map-1.pdf

Alternative 3 - Similar to Alternative 2 but Glenwood ave roads don't curve. Is it better than Alternative 2 guys? comment down below!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-3-map-1.pdf

Alternative 4 - Stupid. Who would like to have a divided road around a mall? Don't make it like 22 in New Jersey in Union.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-4-map-1.pdf

Alternative 5 - Stupid. Just like alternative 4.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-5-map-1.pdf

Alternative 6 - Adequate and nice improvements except with all the signals.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-6-map-1.pdf

Alternative 7 - Nice. Who likes roundabouts?!?!
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440-glenwood/Documents/i-440-glenwood-concept-7-map-1.pdf

I say I like 2 and 3 the best, although 6 and 7 would be nice as well.

Also, 1 is probably the cheapest and 2 and 3 are probably the most expensive because they are like completely redesigning interchanges and intersections, while the others (like alternative 4, 5, 6, and 7) are moderate improvements.

Alternative 1 is like minor improvements.

Like this!
_____________________________

Minor improvements

1

_____________________________

Moderate improvements

4

5

6

7

_____________________________

Major improvements

2

3
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 04:39:10 PM by tolbs17 »
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