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Author Topic: Renumberings due to sign theft  (Read 23860 times)

bugo

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2014, 12:15:39 PM »

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us666.cfm

Quote
WHEREAS, people living near the road already live under the cloud of opprobrium created by having a road that many believe is cursed running near their homes and through their homeland; and
WHEREAS, the number "666" carries the stigma of being the mark of the beast, the mark of the devil, which was described in the book of revelations in the Bible; and
WHEREAS, there are people who refuse to travel the road, not because of the issue of safety, but because of the fear that the devil controls events along United States route 666; and
WHEREAS, the economy in the area is greatly depressed when compared with many parts of the United States, and the infamy brought by the inopportune naming of the road will only make development in the area more difficult.

Quote
As S. U. Mahesh of the New Mexico State Highway and Transportation Department told the Albuquerque Journal, which number ended up on the highway was not important. "As long as it's not 666 and it's nothing satanic, that's OK."

As usual I was right.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 12:33:54 PM by bugo »
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bugo

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2014, 12:22:04 PM »

Personally, I was sad when 666 disappeared from the Rand McNally atlases (I don't get down there much). Ever since then, I've harbored a suspicion that it had to do with "the Devil's number", but whatever.

News stories and press releases prove me wrong?  Like nobody has ever lied in a news story?  Nobody has ever made shit and put it in a press release?  C'mon man.  The government couldn't come out and say the real reason they renumbered the highway because the ACLU would be all over it.  Use your common sense and quit blindly believing news stories.  There is no question that the number was changed because of a bunch of whiny Fundamentalist Christians wouldn't shut up about it.  No question.

Now don't get too firey here... you're probably insulting about 70% of the Midwest in that comment...

The Midwest?  Most of those I run into are from the South (as is Oklahoma).  The majority of them are in the "East South Central" (TN, KY, MS, AL) (65% of respondents) and the 'West South Central" (TX, AR, OK) (50% of respondents).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

Oklahoma part of the South?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  You've obviously never been here.  Tulsa has WAY more in common with Kansas City than Atlanta, Little Rock, or Memphis.
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Brandon

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2014, 01:01:02 PM »

Oklahoma part of the South?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  You've obviously never been here.  Tulsa has WAY more in common with Kansas City than Atlanta, Little Rock, or Memphis.

Kansas City is a border area between part of the Plains (eastern CO, KS, NE), the Midwest (IA, IL), and differing areas of the South (OK/TX vs. AR/LA/MS).  Missouri is an interesting state being as it has a foot in both the Midwest (IA, N 2/3rds IL, IN, OH, WI, MN, MI) and the mid-South (AR, KY, TN).
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2014, 01:10:42 PM »

Virginia has US 13, an unrelated VA 13 (leftover from the original 1918 routes), and briefly had a second VA 13, which became part of US 13 in the 1940s.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2014, 01:39:38 PM »

I'm suspecting the reason that they went with I-11 instead of I-13 for the future Phoenix-Las Vegas Interstate is somewhat related to superstition, as most people believe the number 13 is a sign of bad luck. Which is why you don't see a 13th floor in many skyscrapers or other tall buildings, and I'm led to believe that many schools and office buildings leave out Room 13 as well.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2014, 06:51:55 PM »

On a related note, I wonder if any of the DOTs have decided to stop replacing their mile markers that correspond to those numbers. 
Colorado posts mile marker 419.99 in lieu of 420 on I-70.



Nebraska shows no mercy--they didn't even renumber exit #420! http://goo.gl/maps/rLlC7
I'd rather have this sign, even just for the 420 reference - too scared to post it!

cwf1701

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2014, 06:57:46 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.

one hint, Google I-75 Exit 69 in Michigan.
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rickmastfan67

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2014, 07:05:22 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.

Agreed.

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2014, 07:13:06 PM »

Tsk. Tourists. :pan:
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sandwalk

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2014, 07:19:20 PM »

Near Toledo:

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StogieGuy7

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2014, 07:43:48 PM »

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us666.cfm

Quote
WHEREAS, people living near the road already live under the cloud of opprobrium created by having a road that many believe is cursed running near their homes and through their homeland; and
WHEREAS, the number "666" carries the stigma of being the mark of the beast, the mark of the devil, which was described in the book of revelations in the Bible; and
WHEREAS, there are people who refuse to travel the road, not because of the issue of safety, but because of the fear that the devil controls events along United States route 666; and
WHEREAS, the economy in the area is greatly depressed when compared with many parts of the United States, and the infamy brought by the inopportune naming of the road will only make development in the area more difficult.

Quote
As S. U. Mahesh of the New Mexico State Highway and Transportation Department told the Albuquerque Journal, which number ended up on the highway was not important. "As long as it's not 666 and it's nothing satanic, that's OK."

As usual I was right.

Not quite.  Your reasoning is rather one-dimensional targeting "fundamentalist Christians" et. al.  And, what I am attempting to point out was that the issue was more complex than that. 

If you want the reason for the change in one word, that word is superstition.  But as much from people who watched "The Exorcist" one too many times as from supposedly black-clad "fundamentalists", of which there are relatively few in that particular region.   

Fundamentalists may be superstitious, but not all superstitious people are fundamentalists.
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keithvh

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2014, 10:33:26 PM »

Semi-related- Hooker County, Nebraska doesnt post signs with the county name anywhere

I have a "Entering Keith County" (Nebraska) sign I got as a "present" 15+ years ago from a cousin who lived in North Platte. 


Never asked how he procured it, but I can guess.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 10:36:54 PM by keithvh »
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bugo

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2014, 06:21:42 PM »

Oklahoma part of the South?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  You've obviously never been here.  Tulsa has WAY more in common with Kansas City than Atlanta, Little Rock, or Memphis.

Kansas City is a border area between part of the Plains (eastern CO, KS, NE), the Midwest (IA, IL), and differing areas of the South (OK/TX vs. AR/LA/MS).  Missouri is an interesting state being as it has a foot in both the Midwest (IA, N 2/3rds IL, IN, OH, WI, MN, MI) and the mid-South (AR, KY, TN).

Kansas City is solidly midwestern.  The great plains don't begin until well west of the KC metro.  Again, Oklahoma is not southern.  Texas is its own region.
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Occidental Tourist

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2014, 07:45:52 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.

Awwww. You're no fun.

Any other takers?  Remember, be detailed.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2014, 09:28:03 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.

Awwww. You're no fun.

Any other takers?  Remember, be detailed.

69 is included because it is one of the most common stolen numbers on signs.
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hbelkins

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2014, 09:43:52 PM »

I'd like somebody to explain the reason that routes numbered 69 are included on this list.  Be specific and detailed.
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.

Awwww. You're no fun.

Any other takers?  Remember, be detailed.

69 is included because it is one of the most common stolen numbers on signs.

We know that. The question is why the signs are often stolen.

As someone said...
Quote
If you have to ask, you're too young to know the reason why.
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ctsignguy

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2014, 10:07:32 PM »

Let me try to steer this chat back toward the original topic.  I lived near Dayton,. so i recall when the Ohio 69s were yoinked down and recommissioned as Ohio 235.  Years later i was chatting with an ODOT supervisor and he told me he was part of the committee that pushed the number change....seems he and another supervisor type were driving north the entire length of Ohio 69 from Dayton to just south of Toledo (69 was also burdened with passing through and nearby to several college towns in its length).  Not counting BGS signage, they found only three unmolested signs the entire route....everywhere else....empty signposts aside from direction signs and arrows....and that pretty much clinched Ohio 69's doom.  At this point, i would imagine several thousand such signs lurk in all sorts forgotten basements and garages....




As for US 666, there wasnt any one factor that was the "IT" in the number change.....it was a variety of factors....part of it was the religious fundies getting all worked up over a number that was around since 1926....although i think the pilfered signs had a part as well.....i was corresponding with a guy from Arizona DOT and he told me as soon as the number change was announced, the rest of the US 666s were gone within two days...and the other states it ran through probably had similar results....



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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2014, 09:50:40 AM »

Truth be told, while most adults know what 69 and 666 are associated with; not all of them may necessarily get the 420 association.  I confess, I had to do a Google search on 420 in order to find the answer.

That said, I've lived near PA 420 for nearly 24-1/2 years and only recall one PA 420 shield sign being stolen in that time-frame... the end near its northern terminus at PA 320.  Note: the 420 shield was taken but all the other signs weren't. 

It's been since replaced. JCT 320-END 420 sign assembly
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2014, 09:52:19 AM »

Truth be told, while most adults know what 69 and 666 are associated with; not all of them may necessarily get the 420 association.  I confess, I had to do a Google search on 420 in order to find the answer.
It's a more recent association. But for obscurity it's hard to beat OH 714.
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bugo

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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2014, 10:22:20 AM »

Ludes.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2014, 11:18:34 AM »

Oklahoma part of the South?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  You've obviously never been here.  Tulsa has WAY more in common with Kansas City than Atlanta, Little Rock, or Memphis.

Kansas City is a border area between part of the Plains (eastern CO, KS, NE), the Midwest (IA, IL), and differing areas of the South (OK/TX vs. AR/LA/MS).  Missouri is an interesting state being as it has a foot in both the Midwest (IA, N 2/3rds IL, IN, OH, WI, MN, MI) and the mid-South (AR, KY, TN).

Kansas City is solidly midwestern.  The great plains don't begin until well west of the KC metro.  Again, Oklahoma is not southern.  Texas is its own region.

The US Census Bureau map is on this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States

Southern English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English

Note where Oklahoma is.

For contrast, here's the Midwest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States

Midwestern English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Northern_American_English, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Central_American_English
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2014, 11:34:55 AM »

As for US 666, there wasnt any one factor that was the "IT" in the number change.....it was a variety of factors....part of it was the religious fundies getting all worked up over a number that was around since 1926....although i think the pilfered signs had a part as well.....i was corresponding with a guy from Arizona DOT and he told me as soon as the number change was announced, the rest of the US 666s were gone within two days...and the other states it ran through probably had similar results....

My brother traveled out in the Four Corners area shortly after the change was made. He took some photos (old-style film pictures at that time) of "Old 666-New 491" signage. Not sure which of the three states involved the photos were from.

I remember when US 666 ran concurrently with I-40 west of Gallup into Arizona and then southward. I don't remember exactly when it was renumbered as US 191. Does anyone know the reasoning (announced or otherwise) for that decision? Was it sign theft or satanic allusions or what?
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2014, 12:36:13 PM »

Oklahoma part of the South?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  You've obviously never been here.  Tulsa has WAY more in common with Kansas City than Atlanta, Little Rock, or Memphis.

most of the midwest knows how to drive.  Tulsa does not.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2014, 01:34:23 PM »

Lots of myths abound about the US 666 renumbering. It wasn't done because of sign theft or because of undue pressure from religious fundamentalists, despite some of the things that got posted on MTR at the time it happened.
The only reason people care about 666 is religious fundamentalists. Owned.

Not exactly. US 666 was changed to US 491 due to the well-known Satanic connotation (you don't have to be a Bible beater to know that, just a fan of horror films), combined with the very high mortality rate connected with the highway.  As many of you may know, Indian reservations (yes, that's what they're still called) often have high rates of alcoholism and DUI and US 666 serves several such reservations, the largest of which is the Navajo Nation. 

The continued bloodbath on that particular road led to the inevitable cultural connection between that and the "666" moniker which, in turn, led to political pressure from local politicians in the areas through which the highway travels for a change in number.  I even recall a Dateline NBC report referring to it as the "Devil's Highway" or some such nonsense.

In the end, it was nothing more than superstition dressed up as public relations.   And, I don't doubt that highway departments in UT, CO, and NM lost tons of signs from souvenir hunters as well.  But I can assure you that it actually had very little to do with religious fundamentalists.


That was all true of the UT, CO and NM section of the road. If I remember correctly UT and CO had the moral and superstition objection to it and asked ASHTTO for a renunbering, and NM just followed along siting continuity and a main reason because of the high expense of re signing the route due to theft of the popular number. Now AZ changed their leg from US 666 to an extension of US 191 many years before due to public pressure about religious reasoning, but officially siting the same as NM that there were too many thefts.
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Re: Renumberings due to sign theft
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2014, 01:37:17 PM »

On a related note, I wonder if any of the DOTs have decided to stop replacing their mile markers that correspond to those numbers. 
I had a college roommate who drove a long distance for the sole purpose of stealing milepost 69, so I'm assuming those are chronic targets.

In Texas, on Interstate 20, the mile 420 marker is either painted or adheased to a bridge coloumn to deter theft.
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