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Author Topic: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana  (Read 8461 times)

jbnv

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US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« on: February 14, 2014, 12:06:24 AM »

What's the story with these two routes? I noticed on another site that there was a request to extend US 63 to south Louisiana in 1940 that was denied. Meanwhile, US 167 was extended south through Louisiana in the 1930s, and extended to Abbeville in 1948. It's never made much sense to me that the 2dus goes only a short distance into the state while the 3dus goes almost all the way to the coast.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 03:55:25 AM by jbnv »
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 05:39:30 AM »

US 63 appeared in north LA about 10 years ago.  I think it was DOTD just trying to help AHTD give US 63 some kind of valid reason to run south of I-55.  US 63 now terminates at I-20 seemingly for no reason. 

Maybe our newest member AHTD could shed a little light on this subject.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 11:24:06 PM »

In my opinion, US 63 would be better off as a realignment. From the state line, run it along the LA 9 corridor, passing through Homer, Arcadia, and on its' way to Coushatta. From Coushatta, replace what is now US 371's supposed alignment to I-49, and terminate the highway there. You would essentially have a highway serving three parish seats (Coushatta, Homer, and Arcadia), and an incentive to upgrade the corridor.

But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now. El Dorado to Ruston is already US 167, and that's all US 63 exists as right now in the state of Louisiana.

AHTD, we would love some information! I wish LADOTD would create a page, but these highway departments kind of make the weird-fact-knowers of the forum a little less useful.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 03:31:11 AM »

I don't know why it doesn't end in El Dorado.
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jbnv

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 10:30:11 AM »

The main thing I'm trying to understand is why the extension of US 63 was denied in 1940 yet the same corridor was assigned US 167 just 8 (or 9) years later. The 1999 extension is largely irrelevant to this.

Wikipedia indicates that US 63 originally went to Memphis via US 61. I'm going to assume for now that the 1940 proposal was to turn 63 back west along 79 to Fordyce, then replace 167 south with 63. If that had happened, the 1948/9 extension would have brought 63 (rather than 167) to Abbeville. 167 would always end in Fordyce.

The only thing I see wrong with this proposal is that 63 would have made an eastward jog that was largely unncessary and would be concurrent with other routes for a substantial distance. Fair enough. 167 already existed in ints final Arkansas alignment in 1940. 167 doesn't quite make it to 63 in northern Arkansas, but there is a fairly short segment of 62 around Cherokee Village that connects the two. So by logic, reroute 63 down the 167 corridor. 167 disappears. The old 63 from Cherokee Village to US 61 becomes US 263 or US 63A.

If someone actually proposed this, then I suspect that politics in Arkansas kept it from happening. Jonesboro would surely fight the "demotion" of its major highway.

I also recognize that what is logical today was not necessarily logical 70 years ago. Lafayette was a much smaller and less-significant city in 1940 than it is now.  I can understand that in 1940, having US 63 end in Memphis made more sense than extending it over existing US routes to "insignificant" cities.
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bugo

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 08:47:29 PM »

The main thing I'm trying to understand is why the extension of US 63 was denied in 1940 yet the same corridor was assigned US 167 just 8 (or 9) years later. The 1999 extension is largely irrelevant to this.

Tell me more about this.  Where did you get this information?

Quote
Wikipedia indicates that US 63 originally went to Memphis via US 61. I'm going to assume for now that the 1940 proposal was to turn 63 back west along 79 to Fordyce, then replace 167 south with 63. If that had happened, the 1948/9 extension would have brought 63 (rather than 167) to Abbeville. 167 would always end in Fordyce.

This would have made US 167 a one state route.

Quote
The only thing I see wrong with this proposal is that 63 would have made an eastward jog that was largely unncessary and would be concurrent with other routes for a substantial distance. Fair enough. 167 already existed in ints final Arkansas alignment in 1940. 167 doesn't quite make it to 63 in northern Arkansas, but there is a fairly short segment of 62 around Cherokee Village that connects the two. So by logic, reroute 63 down the 167 corridor. 167 disappears. The old 63 from Cherokee Village to US 61 becomes US 263 or US 63A.

167 used to follow US 62 to end at US 63.  I think it was decommissioned about the time US 412 was commissioned.
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mcdonaat

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 10:43:04 PM »

US 167, if left to ride along State Route 5, would have been a more interesting route. You'd have SR 99 splitting towards Dry Prong, giving a more direct route north and south, but US 167 would be serving the parish seat of Grant Parish (Colfax).

Actually, even more interesting, I-49 is only about 6 miles from where the old Jefferson Highway/SR 1-5 split off from SR 144 (the current LA 8). If LaDOTD never moved US 167 onto State Route 99, US 167 could have actually hopped onto I-49 at Boyce, and rode it into Alexandria.

I think 167 is a better choice to go south and end in Abbeville. Imagine the horrors of US 63, a 2di US highway, ending at a state highway.

jbnv

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 11:03:12 PM »

The main thing I'm trying to understand is why the extension of US 63 was denied in 1940 yet the same corridor was assigned US 167 just 8 (or 9) years later. The 1999 extension is largely irrelevant to this.

Tell me more about this.  Where did you get this information?
Comes from US-Highways.com. Learning more about this is the whole purpose of this thread.

[In the 1940 proposal] 167 would end in Fordyce.
This would have made US 167 a one state route.
OK, there were two things wrong with my assumed proposal. Which is why the sensible proposal would have been to replace 167 with 63.

Actually, even more interesting, I-49 is only about 6 miles from where the old Jefferson Highway/SR 1-5 split off from SR 144 (the current LA 8). If LaDOTD never moved US 167 onto State Route 99, US 167 could have actually hopped onto I-49 at Boyce, and rode it into Alexandria.
I think if that would have happened, 167 would have been truncated at Boyce.

I think 167 is a better choice to go south and end in Abbeville. Imagine the horrors of US 63, a 2di US highway, ending at a state highway.
63 would have probably ended at US 90 in Lafayette instead of continuing to Abbeville. 63 could possibly have followed 90 from Lafayette to New Orleans, since such concurrences were apparently common back then (that wouldn't have lasted, of course). Or even 63 could have gone to Abbeville, then turned east along present LA 14 and ended at US 90 near New Iberia.

Again, I think that none of these things happened because the proposed 63 route was already assigned numbers and someone in Jonesboro objected to the plan.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 04:23:13 PM »


But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now.

LA 146 has piggybacked on US 167 since before I-20 existed, and it has NEVER had its shield on the BGSs.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 04:32:36 PM »


But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now.

LA 146 has piggybacked on US 167 since before I-20 existed, and it has NEVER had its shield on the BGSs.

In Bossier, Industrial St on 20 is unsigned, and Goodwill Rd near Minden is unsigned as a parish road on the BGS.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 07:07:15 PM »


But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now.

LA 146 has piggybacked on US 167 since before I-20 existed, and it has NEVER had its shield on the BGSs.

In Bossier, Industrial St on 20 is unsigned, and Goodwill Rd near Minden is unsigned as a parish road on the BGS.



I was just through there last week and Goodwill Rd was on the exit signs along I-20, along with (I think) a church camp.  I guess the ammo plant closed? I remember "Goodwill Rd / Ammunition Plant" from a few years ago.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2014, 08:28:31 PM »


But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now.

LA 146 has piggybacked on US 167 since before I-20 existed, and it has NEVER had its shield on the BGSs.

In Bossier, Industrial St on 20 is unsigned, and Goodwill Rd near Minden is unsigned as a parish road on the BGS.



I was just through there last week and Goodwill Rd was on the exit signs along I-20, along with (I think) a church camp.  I guess the ammo plant closed? I remember "Goodwill Rd / Ammunition Plant" from a few years ago.
I meant the parish shield wasn't on the sign. Goodwill Road's parish road number was on the exit ramp and reassurance markers on the road itself, but no mention on the BGS.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 08:48:25 PM »


But off of fictional highway stuff, US 63 isn't even signed on the BGS signs on I-20, and just seems like a weird route as it exists now.

LA 146 has piggybacked on US 167 since before I-20 existed, and it has NEVER had its shield on the BGSs.

In Bossier, Industrial St on 20 is unsigned, and Goodwill Rd near Minden is unsigned as a parish road on the BGS.



I was just through there last week and Goodwill Rd was on the exit signs along I-20, along with (I think) a church camp.  I guess the ammo plant closed? I remember "Goodwill Rd / Ammunition Plant" from a few years ago.
I meant the parish shield wasn't on the sign. Goodwill Road's parish road number was on the exit ramp and reassurance markers on the road itself, but no mention on the BGS.

I didn't get a pic, but the WB I-20 sign for US 80 at Delta changes from a Parish Shield to a State Route Shield beside 80.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 02:53:33 AM »

By the way, what's up with the directional signage on some of those exits? Still has the mileage posted, a la 60's.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2014, 05:55:49 AM »

Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd cosign US 63 iwith US 167 and US 71 to Alexandria, then run US 63 along LA 1 and LA 10 to terminate at US 61 in St. Francisville. That would give some justification for the Audubon Bridge without killling US 167.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2014, 10:37:02 AM »

Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd cosign US 63 iwith US 167 and US 71 to Alexandria, then run US 63 along LA 1 and LA 10 to terminate at US 61 in St. Francisville. That would give some justification for the Audubon Bridge without killling US 167.

That is a good idea. Would also give the Marksville and New Roads areas a US route.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2014, 11:26:56 PM »

For that matter, why stop in St. Francisville? Instead of going through New Roads crossing the river, route US 63 around False River via a new straight-shot from LA 1 to US 190. Continue along 190 to LA 415. Consume 415 to I-10 and extend that road to LA 1. From there, have US 63 concur with LA 1 to Donaldsonville. Then consume LA 3089 and LA 3127. The result: a meaningful extension of US 63 almost all the way to the coast as was originally proposed, and another US highway alternate route from Baton Rouge to New Orleans along the Mississippi River.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2014, 03:35:51 PM »


I didn't get a pic, but the WB I-20 sign for US 80 at Delta changes from a Parish Shield to a State Route Shield beside 80.

When you travel WB I-20 from Vicksburg, the first 2 overhead BGSs for the Delta exit still have the parish shield on them, but not the last BGS.

IIRC, LA 3218 is the original leg of US 80 from where US 80 turns off to get on I-20 to the Mississippi River bridge (now closed off to vehicular traffic).

[/quote]

I was just through there last week and Goodwill Rd was on the exit signs along I-20, along with (I think) a church camp.  I guess the ammo plant closed? I remember "Goodwill Rd / Ammunition Plant" from a few years ago.

The ammo plant closed 10-15 years ago. The national guard is now stationed there as well as a business that disassembles bombs.  They recently got in a heap of trouble as they were caught improperly storing the black powder & explosives outside in the wide open.  The parish road has never been posted on any of the BGSs that have ever been at the exit.


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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2014, 06:48:25 PM »

I passed through the Goodwill Road exit recently (PR 117), and it lists "Goodwill Road, Camp Minden."

Actually, come to think of it, I believe that US 371 North lists two control cities, even though it only goes in one direction. Minden was not one of those, instead using two cities about 30 or so miles away from the Interstate. I'd rather see Minden listed, since you can hop on US 79/80 and head straight into downtown.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2014, 10:58:06 PM »

I passed through the Goodwill Road exit recently (PR 117), and it lists "Goodwill Road, Camp Minden."

Actually, come to think of it, I believe that US 371 North lists two control cities, even though it only goes in one direction. Minden was not one of those, instead using two cities about 30 or so miles away from the Interstate. I'd rather see Minden listed, since you can hop on US 79/80 and head straight into downtown.
Why?  US 371 jumps onto I-20 east at exit 44 (US 371 NORTH/COTTON VALLEY/SPRINGHILL), the exit you are refering to, and goes to the Minden exit (LA 159 NORTH/US 371 SOUTH/MINDEN/SIBLEY). Both exits used to have just LA 7 on the BGSs for both exits while LA 7 was routed thru downtown Minden over US 79/80.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2014, 12:16:50 AM »

I thought having Minden twice would be a weird choice, until I drove from Monroe to Minden. Ruston is listed as a control city on three consecutive exits, instead of "Ruston, Next 3 Exits" with Ruston/Farmerville for LA 33, Jonesboro/Dubach for US 167/63, and La Tech as a control point for LA 544, or even better, Cooktown Rd.

The idea of having Minden as the US 371 NORTH exit wouldn't be too bad of an idea. US 79/80 is a straight shot to Minden from the light at Dixie Inn, while Cotton Valley would be an ideal control city for US 371 NORTH. If you take LA 159 north into Minden on the next exit, you hit downtown, but you go through a residential neighborhood.

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2014, 04:37:07 PM »

Louisiana Tech was the original control point for exit 84 until the road was repaved in the mid 90s. 
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jbnv

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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 05:45:52 PM »

Ruston is listed as a control city on three consecutive exits, instead of "Ruston, Next 3 Exits"
I suspect that the former will eventually give way to the latter. I-10 exit 101 was originally signed as "Lafayette / Carencro", but is now signed as "E University Ave." I can see this happening in Hammond and Denham Springs as well.
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Re: US 63 and US 167 in Louisiana
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2014, 06:34:08 PM »

The problem is that, really, if you enter the corporate limits of Ruston on I-20, at what point do you change the LA 33 exit westbound and the US 167 exit eastbound to Downtown Ruston? For US 167 westbound, I would suggest Jonesboro or Quitman, and use El Dorado as a second control point. For LA 33's exit eastbound, I would suggest Farmerville and Sterlington, or Farmerville and Bastrop.

Alas, since it is a thread about US 63/167, does anyone else remember the passing lane situations on US 167 near Lillie? Uphill you had a passing lane, and downhill you dropped back to one lane... while the other side got the extra lane. I remember it fondly going from central Louisiana up to Arkansas, and always wondered why you had half of a four lane highway. Sadly, the four-laning of US 167 wiped it out, but my childhood was rekindled when going down US 79 just north of Minden - passing lanes!!

 


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