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Author Topic: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread  (Read 23914 times)

Pink Jazz

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Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« on: August 14, 2014, 03:20:23 PM »

For those who are interested, I decided to create a thread that tracks the installation of logo signs on Phoenix area freeways.  I know you can view them on grandcanyonstatelogosigns.com, however, the map isn't always up to date; I have seen new signs before the map has been updated.

Here is what has been installed so far:

October 2013
  • Loop 101 and Olive Avenue

November 2013
  • I-17 and Bell Road
  • I-17 and Union Hills Drive

December 2013
  • I-17 and Dunlap Avenue
  • I-17 and Peoria Avenue
  • I-17 and Cactus Road (northbound only)
  • I-17 and Thunderbird Road
  • I-17 and Greenway Road
  • I-10 and 75th Avenue
  • I-10 and Elliot Road
  • I-10 and Warner Road
  • I-10 and Ray Road
  • Loop 101 and Indian School Road
  • Loop 101 and Peoria Avenue
  • Loop 101 and Bell Road

May 2014
  • I-17 and Pinnacle Peak Road
  • I-17 and Happy Valley Road
  • Loop 101 and 67th Avenue
  • Loop 101 and 59th Avenue
  • Loop 101 and Tatum Boulevard

June 2014
  • I-17 and Deer Valley Drive (southbound only)
  • I-10 and 67th Avenue
  • I-10 and 43rd Avenue
  • I-10 and Chandler Boulevard
  • Loop 101 and Thomas Road (southbound only)
  • Loop 101 and 7th Street
  • Loop 101 and Hayden Road
  • Loop 101 and Broadway Road

July 2014
  • I-10 and 83rd Avenue
  • I-10 and 51st Avenue
  • Loop 101 and McDowell Road (southbound only)
  • Loop 101 and Northern Avenue
  • Loop 101 and Thunderbird Road
  • Loop 101 and Cave Creek Road
  • Loop 101 and Scottsdale Road (eastbound only)
  • Loop 101 and Frank Lloyd Wright Boulevard
  • Loop 101 and Rio Salado Parkway/University Drive
  • Loop 101 and Southern Avenue/Baseline Road

At this rate, it looks like I-10 and Loop 101 should be complete by the end of the summer.  Note that I-10 from 35th Avenue to the US 60 Superstition Freeway, as well as I-17 south of Dunlap will not be getting logo signs due to lack of sign spacing.  Also, Loop 101 from Shea Boulevard to Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway won't be getting logo signs until 2016 due to a widening project.

BTW, logo sign installation on Loop 202 and SR 51 should begin in October and continue through early/mid-2015.  The US 60 Superstition Freeway is planned for the second half of 2015.  Finally, Loop 303 is planned for 2018; I presume ADOT will focus on logo sign installation in the Tucson area before installing them on Loop 303.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 06:57:47 PM by Pink Jazz »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 08:12:05 PM »

Monthly Update:

August 2014
  • Loop 101 and Elliot Road
  • Loop 101 and Ray Road
  • Loop 101 and Chandler Boulevard

These signs I saw in person, but the GCSLS website hasn't been updated with them yet.  There are probably a few others that have been installed last month in other places that I did not see.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:32:48 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 11:46:48 PM »

These are so ridiculous and unnecessary in urban areas.

Strongly disagree.  They are just as helpful in urban areas as they are in rural areas, since people who are undecided on a specific restaurant/gas station/hotel can more easily know in advance before getting off at an exit.

Furthermore, the state revenue generation potential in urban areas is far greater than in rural areas since there will be more businesses competing to get space on the signs, and often will command a premium over a sign in a rural area.  In Arizona's case, at exits where the demand exceeds the available sign space, whoever gets to have a space on one of the signs is decided with a competitive bidding process.

In addition, another advantage to logo signs is that it has the potential of actually IMPROVING (not reducing) highway safety by reducing the temptation of drivers to lookup nearby services on their smartphones while driving at highway speeds.  This is especially important in urban areas.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:32:51 AM by andy3175 »
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Don'tKnowYet

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 06:00:23 PM »

These are so ridiculous and unnecessary in urban areas.

Strongly agree.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:32:54 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 01:30:44 AM »

These are so ridiculous and unnecessary in urban areas.

Strongly agree.

For what reasons?  You need to back up your reasoning.  I have perfectly valid and undisputable reasons why they are useful and important in urban areas.  And apparently, ADOT disagrees with you.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:32:56 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 05:42:51 PM »

Monthly Update:

September 2014
  • Loop 101 and Camelback Road (added to GCSLS website 10/22/14)
  • Loop 101 and Glendale Avenue
  • Loop 101 and Union Hills Drive (northbound only, added to GCSLS website 10/22/14)
  • Loop 101 and 51st Avenue (added to GCSLS website 10/22/14)
  • Loop 101 and 19th Avenue (westbound only, added to GCSLS website 10/22/14)
  • Loop 101 and 7th Avenue (westbound only, added to GCSLS website 10/22/14)
  • I-10 and Avondale Boulevard (spotted 10/18/14)
  • I-10 and 99th Avenue (eastbound only, spotted 10/18/14)

There could be some others that I don't know about yet.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:32:59 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 10:48:48 PM »

This is really dumb. I hated them in Las Vegas, I hated them in Reno and I hate them in Atlanta. I was just in Phoenix and was disappointed to see them. Hopefully ADOT will gain some sense and take them down.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:03 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 11:40:24 PM »

These are so ridiculous and unnecessary in urban areas.

Strongly agree.

Disagree. We have them along I-295 in the Camden/Philly area. Very helpful, because some exits have no services at all, while others may dump you in undesirable parts of town. Need gas? Pick an exit that's signed for gas. I'd rather see these at all exits.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:10 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 01:14:03 AM »

I think certain businesses would like this as a competitive advantage. For now, I'm OK with the signs.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:18 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 01:33:39 AM »

This is really dumb. I hated them in Las Vegas, I hated them in Reno and I hate them in Atlanta. I was just in Phoenix and was disappointed to see them. Hopefully ADOT will gain some sense and take them down.

There goes all the potential revenue.  You hate them for no reason, which is bad.  IMO it should be illegal to be opposed to them.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:22 AM by andy3175 »
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Brandon

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 10:01:08 AM »

These are so ridiculous and unnecessary in urban areas.

Strongly agree.

Disagree. We have them along I-295 in the Camden/Philly area. Very helpful, because some exits have no services at all, while others may dump you in undesirable parts of town. Need gas? Pick an exit that's signed for gas. I'd rather see these at all exits.

I'm not so sure we need logo signs at all exits, but at least the symbol signage for gas (with the D for diesel), food, lodging, and hospitals would be most useful.

I'd also like to see a change in the format of the logo signage.  Right now, it's all text at the top for the service, i.e. GAS - EXIT 134.  I think that should be moved to the left with the gas symbol (and D for diesel if applicable) followed by "EXIT" and then the exit number below i.e. "134", and the logos to the right of the symbol and exit number separated by a line.

{GAS} | {logo} {logo}
EXIT    | {logo} {logo}
134     | {logo} {logo}
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:26 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 05:47:50 PM »

I'd also like to see a change in the format of the logo signage.  Right now, it's all text at the top for the service, i.e. GAS - EXIT 134.  I think that should be moved to the left with the gas symbol (and D for diesel if applicable) followed by "EXIT" and then the exit number below i.e. "134", and the logos to the right of the symbol and exit number separated by a line.

{GAS} | {logo} {logo}
EXIT    | {logo} {logo}
134     | {logo} {logo}

I think that layout would require more sign panel area than the current design.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:30 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 07:31:40 PM »

I'd also like to see a change in the format of the logo signage.  Right now, it's all text at the top for the service, i.e. GAS - EXIT 134.  I think that should be moved to the left with the gas symbol (and D for diesel if applicable) followed by "EXIT" and then the exit number below i.e. "134", and the logos to the right of the symbol and exit number separated by a line.

{GAS} | {logo} {logo}
EXIT    | {logo} {logo}
134     | {logo} {logo}

So something like:



(Couldn't be arsed to actually go and find images to put in the spaces, sorry)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:36 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 08:36:01 PM »

Here in Arizona, most of the urban logo signs have the exit number in a tab, which is larger than most of those in the rural areas which either use a smaller tab or have the exit number in the main body of the sign.  Also, here in Arizona you will only find horizontal layout 6-panel logo signs here in Arizona in the urban areas; all rural 6-panel logo signs are in a vertical layout.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:40 AM by andy3175 »
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corco

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 08:40:25 PM »

Quote
IMO it should be illegal to be opposed to them.

Holy crap, dude. It's the logo sign Stasi.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:44 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2014, 09:01:42 PM »

Quote
IMO it should be illegal to be opposed to them.

Holy crap, dude. It's the logo sign Stasi.

The problem is that there is absolutely no valid reason to be opposed to them; they are useful to motorists and a source of revenue for the state that will usually pay itself off.  Would you prefer huge expensive billboards instead?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:49 AM by andy3175 »
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corco

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2014, 09:11:07 PM »

Yeah, I understand the argument for them.

If disliking them were to be illegal, what would you suggest the punishment to be? Would this be an infraction, misdemeanor, gross misdemeanor, felony? Would a person serve jail time? Would there be a cash fine? If so, what would it be? Are you advocating for the death penalty?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:51 AM by andy3175 »
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2014, 09:23:36 PM »

Yeah, I understand the argument for them.

If disliking them were to be illegal, what would you suggest the punishment to be? Would this be an infraction, misdemeanor, gross misdemeanor, felony? Would a person serve jail time? Would there be a cash fine? If so, what would it be? Are you advocating for the death penalty?

Not sure about that.  However, I would wish state transportation authorities would better educate the public on their benefits to both the state and motorists who drive on their highways.  In fact, the argument against Googling or Yelping while driving at highway speeds would be a selling point for these signs and could reduce unnecessary opposition.

Also IMO all states who still restrict their logo sign programs to rural areas should wake up and realize that these signs are just as useful in urban areas and can generate more revenue in urban areas.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:54 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2014, 10:40:19 PM »

Signs should not be an extortionate revenue generator.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:33:58 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2014, 10:41:34 PM »

Signs should not be an extortionate revenue generator.

Why not.  It costs taxpayers little to nothing, and can pay for highway improvements.  Would you prefer higher fuel taxes instead?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:02 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2014, 11:33:48 PM »

Yes, I would. Signs should reflect what's actually at the exit in full, not only those businesses who choose to pay.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:05 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2014, 11:47:02 PM »

Signs should not be an extortionate revenue generator.

Why not.  It costs taxpayers little to nothing, and can pay for highway improvements.  Would you prefer higher fuel taxes instead?

The way to make this type of plan worthwhile in an urban area is to also implement a sign code to reduce the number of really tall freeway-type signs and billboards, effectively beautifying the area, reducing sign clutter, and increasing safety. If this type of program doesn't come with a sign code, it basically just increases the clutter and renders the whole program worthless.

The flip side to that is that by implementing a sign code that restricts non-logo sign advertisement, you force private industry to buy space on a logo sign from the government, which could be seen as extortion.

That being said, the space on a logo sign is probably cheaper than erecting a 60' tall McDonald's sign. The advantage to that is that it helps to equalize competition since everybody gets equal opportunity to advertise. The flip side to THAT is that it interferes with the free market. (Ma and Pa's Restaurant, which couldn't afford to put up a 60' tall freeway sign, might be able to buy space on a logo sign. McDonald's, which might want to put up a 60' tall freeway sign to run Ma and Pa out of business would have to settle for a logo sign).

Probably the amount of money available to pay for highway improvements would be negligible if you kept the costs reasonable (which you would have to do in order to make it a palatable and desirable alternative to conventional advertising that is not considered to be extortion), since there would ostensibly be a couple guys in cubicles + maintenance workers running an application process for those signs, processing those permits, getting the signs made, maintaining the signs, etc. While government may profit slightly off such a program, it's more just an expansion of government. The way governments and user fees work, you can't really charge an unreasonably high fee and then roll that money to a general improvements fund that doesn't help sustain the program- you have to justify the fee. You can reasonably roll over a minimal amount of money, but once we get into millions of dollars that becomes a bit of an eyebrow-raiser.

The only way I can think of that you could use these types of user fees to generate monies for highway improvements is if you made business owners that got logo signs pay an impact fee to fund improvements to offset the traffic generated on the ramps from the presence of the logo sign, but then you'd have to commission traffic studies to demonstrate those impacts and the whole thing would get really expensive and ridiculous quickly in order to not be a legal nightmare. Even with all that, I'm still not sure if it would be legal to do such a thing, and it certainly wouldn't be profitable for the business to buy a logo sign at that point.

Even then, if you were to attempt to make the fees high enough to fund highway improvements, and they were found to be arbitrary, there'd be an equity issue like what SPUI notes above- is the fee reasonable enough that any business can afford it, or do only national chains have the money lying around to front those costs? Such a claim could be actionable if the fees weren't justifiably low. 

So, yeah, while I would support such a program from a beautification perspective, there's certain significant property rights/government scope arguments that could be made against such a program. I strongly dislike the idea to attempt to raise revenue for general highway improvements, because I don't think that's legally defensible. Whether or not to implement would have to be based on the views of the community at large.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:08 AM by andy3175 »
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Brandon

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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2014, 11:59:21 PM »

I'd also like to see a change in the format of the logo signage.  Right now, it's all text at the top for the service, i.e. GAS - EXIT 134.  I think that should be moved to the left with the gas symbol (and D for diesel if applicable) followed by "EXIT" and then the exit number below i.e. "134", and the logos to the right of the symbol and exit number separated by a line.

{GAS} | {logo} {logo}
EXIT    | {logo} {logo}
134     | {logo} {logo}

So something like:



(Couldn't be arsed to actually go and find images to put in the spaces, sorry)

Yeah, but just a bit smaller on the symbol and text.  IMHO, we should try to embrace as many symbol signs as we can instead of text.  This is the best of both worlds, the symbol and the logos.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:11 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2014, 02:25:51 AM »

^^ Without looking up the exact specs, the proposed design mockup seems like the logo sign panels are too small in relation to the symbol and exit text--if that's the case, the sign would need to be both taller and wider to accommodate. It might be easier to put those on a top line and revert the panels to a typical horizontal layout.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:14 AM by andy3175 »
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Re: Phoenix area logo sign installation tracking thread
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2014, 04:22:03 AM »

How 'bout this? I just moved the thing onto the overhead gantry. Is this even allowed?

« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:34:17 AM by andy3175 »
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