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Author Topic: Interstate 269  (Read 224384 times)

Brooks

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #700 on: September 26, 2018, 02:32:12 PM »

what happened to the plan to realign 55 and removing that stupid cloverleaf at crump?
No money.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #701 on: September 26, 2018, 07:36:41 PM »

what happened to the plan to realign 55 and removing that stupid cloverleaf at crump?
No money.

I thought it was the public outcry of effectively having to close the old bridge for a period of time that really did it in.
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jamierazorback

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #702 on: September 26, 2018, 07:44:40 PM »

what happened to the plan to realign 55 and removing that stupid cloverleaf at crump?
No money.

I thought it was the public outcry of effectively having to close the old bridge for a period of time that really did it in.
This is why there will never be an I-22 Mississippi river crossing north of Tunica and connecting I 40. West Memphis is the largest city in a very poor eastern Arkansas. You have to travel up to Jonesboro to find a larger one. That town depends on tourism and generates a lot of money going to greyhound park. They now have a casino and they have been the main local rival of the Tunica casinos for years. Arkansas and West Memphis would never agree to divert traffic around West Memphis and right into Tunica. Mississippi would love it, but Arkansas would never spend a penny to build that road. For obvious reasons that I just mentioned and the fact that there is literally nothing there. Yes, West Memphis was already throwing a fit in traffic that would be cut off from the bridge closing down.
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Wayward Memphian

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #703 on: September 27, 2018, 03:16:18 PM »

what happened to the plan to realign 55 and removing that stupid cloverleaf at crump?
No money.

I thought it was the public outcry of effectively having to close the old bridge for a period of time that really did it in.
This is why there will never be an I-22 Mississippi river crossing north of Tunica and connecting I 40. West Memphis is the largest city in a very poor eastern Arkansas. You have to travel up to Jonesboro to find a larger one. That town depends on tourism and generates a lot of money going to greyhound park. They now have a casino and they have been the main local rival of the Tunica casinos for years. Arkansas and West Memphis would never agree to divert traffic around West Memphis and right into Tunica. Mississippi would love it, but Arkansas would never spend a penny to build that road. For obvious reasons that I just mentioned and the fact that there is literally nothing there. Yes, West Memphis was already throwing a fit in traffic that would be cut off from the bridge closing down.

That bridge would do nothing to negate Southland's main advantage over Tunica, it's still closer to Memphis patrons with or without a new bridge. All it needs to do is build a tower and offer up a performance venue and buy up some surrounding property (boat dealership cheap motel, truck year in rear and class it up a bit and it's on par with anything Tunica has.  Arkansas finally authorizing full gaming would be the feather in the cap.
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Interstate 69 Fan

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #704 on: September 28, 2018, 09:34:55 AM »

what happened to the plan to realign 55 and removing that stupid cloverleaf at crump?
No money.
Just build 2 flyovers for 55 and it’ll be fine, they can be under or above ground.
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Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

froggie

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #705 on: September 28, 2018, 09:38:49 AM »

^ It's not that easy.  Not enough space between the river and the interchange for the type of flyovers you're suggesting.  Nevermind that, because of the bridge width constraint, the "northbound" flyover could only be a single lane.

And "no money" applies just as much to "2 flyovers" as it does to the earlier interchange proposal.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #706 on: September 28, 2018, 12:19:39 PM »

^^^^^^^
It's not likely that the I-55/Crump interchange upgrade will be prioritized, not only because of the drawbacks cited above (necessity of bridge closing, fiscal considerations) but also because it enhances the aspect of I-55 being simply a "pass-through" in regards to both the state of Tennessee but also greater Memphis in general.  The sole attractant anywhere near the route is Graceland -- and that's even on the "old route" of US 51. 

The one thing that could advance the development of the revised interchange would be a general increase in cross-river traffic, particularly the commercial variety.  The FedEx distribution center is near I-240 between I-55 and the Lamar Ave. interchange; trucks coming from the west or north (via I-55) would instinctively use the I-55 rather than the I-40 river crossing to avoid the Memphis CBD; from personal experience, I-55 traffic through the current Crump interchange tends to clog up when there's several trucks jockeying for position in the right lane (in both directions) to utilize the ramps.  If such traffic were to increase significantly -- or local traffic adding to the mix -- whatever efficiencies attached to the I-55 crossing would diminish or simply disappear.  With only 5 lanes per direction parsed between the two river crossings -- and no new alternate bridge development in sight -- push will likely come to shove at some time, and the upgrades will be done -- even though TNDOT will likely procrastinate as long as they can!
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rcm195

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #707 on: September 28, 2018, 09:02:53 PM »

Just wondering, what was the history of this particular route across this bridge and how I-55 and earlier I-40 were run this way. I understand this was the only bridge at the time. I guess I’m asking was there any other design other than the ultra tight cloverleaf? When exactly was the interstate built here? I remember my Dad telling me prior to this bridge that an old train bridge went across the Mississippi and it had two very narrow one way roads built on either side of it for east and west bound traffic. I don’t believe it’s the current train bridge.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #708 on: September 28, 2018, 09:17:55 PM »

The Mississippi & Arkansas bridge was built in 1949 as a replacement for the 2-lane facility described above on each side of the "Frisco" (SLSF) railroad bridge.  It was built as a conventional 4-lane facility (which is why it doesn't feature Interstate-spec shoulders) to carry US 61/64/70/79 across the river.  Apparently the Crump cloverleaf was built to take up minimal space at the bottom of the east bridge approach -- but obviously has outlived its usefulness. 
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Brooks

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #709 on: September 28, 2018, 09:21:38 PM »

The Mississippi & Arkansas bridge was built in 1949 as a replacement for the 2-lane facility described above on each side of the "Frisco" (SLSF) railroad bridge.  It was built as a conventional 4-lane facility (which is why it doesn't feature Interstate-spec shoulders) to carry US 61/64/70/79 across the river.  Apparently the Crump cloverleaf was built to take up minimal space at the bottom of the east bridge approach -- but obviously has outlived its usefulness.
The Harahan Bridge was the one that carried the roadways, not the Frisco.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #710 on: September 29, 2018, 01:36:21 AM »

The Mississippi & Arkansas bridge was built in 1949 as a replacement for the 2-lane facility described above on each side of the "Frisco" (SLSF) railroad bridge.  It was built as a conventional 4-lane facility (which is why it doesn't feature Interstate-spec shoulders) to carry US 61/64/70/79 across the river.  Apparently the Crump cloverleaf was built to take up minimal space at the bottom of the east bridge approach -- but obviously has outlived its usefulness.
The Harahan Bridge was the one that carried the roadways, not the Frisco.

I stand corrected.  Forgot there were 2 RR bridges paralleling each other.  The Frisco bridge carried its namesake rail line, while the Harahan was a joint facility of the Rock Island (CRI&P) and Missouri Pacific.  Both the latter lines terminated in Memphis, while the Frisco headed SE (more or less parallel to today's I-22) to Birmingham, with a southern branch to Mobile, AL. 
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jamierazorback

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #711 on: October 01, 2018, 08:56:48 PM »

This new article by the commercial appeal is very interesting on the I-269 effect of suburban Memphis. The sleepy bedroom towns that are part of the Memphis Metro, but are not really connected to the big city like Bartlett, Germantown, exc. I found it very interesting that local leaders and officials from Millington are really pushing to have I-69 from I-269 to I-40 built ASAP! They see it as a major growth for the town of Millington. https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/money/2018/09/29/269-corridor-game-changer-millington-memphis/1367711002/
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #712 on: October 02, 2018, 05:15:22 AM »

This new article by the commercial appeal is very interesting on the I-269 effect of suburban Memphis. The sleepy bedroom towns that are part of the Memphis Metro, but are not really connected to the big city like Bartlett, Germantown, exc. I found it very interesting that local leaders and officials from Millington are really pushing to have I-69 from I-269 to I-40 built ASAP! They see it as a major growth for the town of Millington. https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/money/2018/09/29/269-corridor-game-changer-millington-memphis/1367711002/

From the POV of the Memphis metro area, the I-69 segment between TN 300 and TN 385 actually functions as the completion of the outer loop, with Millington as sort of a "fulcrum" between the N-S and E-W segments.  It's always served as something of an exurb in any case; effecting the I-69 connection would functionally advance the town to a genuine suburb -- attracting both roadside businesses as well as other enterprises requiring multiple egress facilities.  And as the junction point for the future I-69 to the north, it's positioned to be a prime location for distribution warehousing. 
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Henry

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #713 on: October 02, 2018, 10:12:14 AM »

They probably forgot that a small part of I-69 in the area already exists (hello, TN 300?). Add the also already-existing I-40, I-240 and I-55 corridors to the mix, and the highway is basically complete through there, with the northern segments being the only thing needed to be constructed.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #714 on: October 02, 2018, 02:08:07 PM »

They probably forgot that a small part of I-69 in the area already exists (hello, TN 300?). Add the also already-existing I-40, I-240 and I-55 corridors to the mix, and the highway is basically complete through there, with the northern segments being the only thing needed to be constructed.

While approval has been given for designating TN 300 and the relevant portions of I-40/I-240/I-55 in Tennessee as I-69, TDOT hasn't acted on that approval.

It might not be accurate to say that I-69 "exists" in Tennessee just yet.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #715 on: October 02, 2018, 07:09:27 PM »

There's still several miles of slogging down a conventional 4-lane divided US 51 to deal with between TN 300 and TN 385; that, and the completed segment comprising I-55, I-240, I-40, and TN 300 respectively from the state line northward, comprise SIU 9 of the entire I-69 project.  So far, that stretch hasn't garnered much discussion; right now the only actual construction activity on I-69 in TN is confined to SIU 7, the segment from I-155 at Dyersburg north to the KY state line.  SIU 8, from Millington north to Dyersburg, is presently under study regarding exact routing, while the unconstructed portion of  SIU 9, bypassing the commercial and housing areas just north of TN 300, has been effectively ignored -- or left for last -- due to fiscal and NIMBY factors.  That is what the Millington-based group appears to wish to remedy by flipping the order of development on its head -- doing SIU 9 as the completion of a northern metro "loop" with the E-W portion of TN 385/I-269 and leaving SIU 8 north of Millington for future action.  This group sees connectivity between Millington and north Memphis as more vital to its interest than a connection north to Dyersburg because of the potential for employment centers to locate along 385/269 -- or spill over to the proposed I-69 -- and the proposed I-69 to function as a conduit for workers living in Memphis (a "reverse commute", if you will).  In short, they see I-69 as a northwestern equivalent of the E-W section of TN 385 between I-240 and I-269 -- an efficient egress point to get Memphis-based employees and commercial traffic out to the I-269 loop -- presently lacking north and west of the 40/269 junction.   Millington envisions itself as the junction between the I-269 "wheel" and the westernmost of the "spokes", the I-69 corridor -- and as such in a prime position to expand its economic possibilities vis-à-vis the greater Memphis area.     
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jamierazorback

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #716 on: October 03, 2018, 02:59:19 AM »

There's still several miles of slogging down a conventional 4-lane divided US 51 to deal with between TN 300 and TN 385; that, and the completed segment comprising I-55, I-240, I-40, and TN 300 respectively from the state line northward, comprise SIU 9 of the entire I-69 project.  So far, that stretch hasn't garnered much discussion; right now the only actual construction activity on I-69 in TN is confined to SIU 7, the segment from I-155 at Dyersburg north to the KY state line.  SIU 8, from Millington north to Dyersburg, is presently under study regarding exact routing, while the unconstructed portion of  SIU 9, bypassing the commercial and housing areas just north of TN 300, has been effectively ignored -- or left for last -- due to fiscal and NIMBY factors.  That is what the Millington-based group appears to wish to remedy by flipping the order of development on its head -- doing SIU 9 as the completion of a northern metro "loop" with the E-W portion of TN 385/I-269 and leaving SIU 8 north of Millington for future action.  This group sees connectivity between Millington and north Memphis as more vital to its interest than a connection north to Dyersburg because of the potential for employment centers to locate along 385/269 -- or spill over to the proposed I-69 -- and the proposed I-69 to function as a conduit for workers living in Memphis (a "reverse commute", if you will).  In short, they see I-69 as a northwestern equivalent of the E-W section of TN 385 between I-240 and I-269 -- an efficient egress point to get Memphis-based employees and commercial traffic out to the I-269 loop -- presently lacking north and west of the 40/269 junction.   Millington envisions itself as the junction between the I-269 "wheel" and the westernmost of the "spokes", the I-69 corridor -- and as such in a prime position to expand its economic possibilities vis-à-vis the greater Memphis area.   
It makes me wonder how effective they can really be to get this moved ahead on the priority list. I get the importance for Millington and Northern Shelby County. TDOT as we know, really doesn't care a great deal about the Memphis Metro area. Not from a priority standpoint anyway. So it makes me wonder if they would even take a listen and switch the pecking order. Right now it seems that SIU 9 has been intended as the final piece. I'm not sure how much money the cost would be to complete SIU 9 from Millington to TN 300. I'm sure TDOT wont post a rush on it though. There are so many politics involved in things like this. We will have to see what happens.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #717 on: October 03, 2018, 04:48:34 AM »

^^^^^^^^
Frankly, neither SIU (8 or 9) is probably going to rank particularly high on TDOT's priority list -- but the fact that there's now a "squeaky wheel" in the mix in the name of the Millington advocacy group might have some "pull" if and when a decision to complete I-69 beyond what's already in the works to the north comes about.  Both segments will require mostly new-terrain construction to avoid conflict with commercial access to existing US 51, so it may well come down to what more readily fits into the upcoming budget outlays -- and the uncompleted portion of SIU 9 is considerably shorter.  OTOH, the route selection process for SIU 8 is farther along -- so at present it looks like something of a wash!  Not to make light of the situation, but a coin-flip could well provide the decision!
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #718 on: October 03, 2018, 01:02:37 PM »

I would think it would be more beneficial for SIU 9 to be done first.  It's more likely to have ROW become expensive due to development, and it serves the metro area.  SIU 8 would seem to be mainly important for connecting SIU 9 to SIU 7.
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Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

GreenLanternCorps

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #719 on: October 03, 2018, 03:44:51 PM »

Checking the Mississippi DOT Traffic Cameras at I-269 and MS305 again.

https://www.mdottraffic.com/

1. I-269 is completed as far as I can see within the Southbound camera's view, striped and ready to go.

2. MDOT's traffic camera map has camera icons for the last section of I-269 on the map (but not the actual stretch of the interstate), cameras are not live however.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #720 on: October 03, 2018, 06:40:10 PM »

I'm hoping that the stretch from I-22 to I-55 will open in Mid November. I do not want to be no where near MS 302 IN Southaven during black Friday weekend. That area is a cluster**** of urban sprawl due to a lack of urban planning...
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rlb2024

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #721 on: October 04, 2018, 04:02:30 PM »

Just saw a posting from Southaven officials that the I-269 ribbon-cutting will be Friday, October 26 at 10:00am.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 05:30:35 PM by rlb2024 »
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #722 on: October 04, 2018, 04:58:33 PM »

Just saw a posting from Southaven officials that the I-269 ribbon-cutting will be Friday, October 26!at 10:00am.

At least it's within the original projected timeframe, unlike some other jurisdictions we know all too well (take note, PA!). 
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #723 on: October 04, 2018, 06:15:45 PM »

Nice to hear about the opening. I hope restaurant and gas station development begins at or before the interchange with IH 55, sometime soon. I have a feeling that area will be a hub for warehouse development...
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #724 on: October 05, 2018, 06:49:00 PM »

Nice to hear about the opening. I hope restaurant and gas station development begins at or before the interchange with IH 55, sometime soon. I have a feeling that area will be a hub for warehouse development...

Since the 55/69/269 junction area and points to the east along the new I-269 alignment are still within the Greater Memphis area, exactly where new warehousing is situated will largely depend upon the taxation policies within each state and any local incentives or inducements the various jurisdictions are willing to offer to entice firms to locate there.  That sort of thing will determine whether warehousing in concentrated along the MS portion of I-269 or, alternately, along the TN section.  Roadside businesses catering to the traveler are relatively fungible items, whereas business sites where the freeway is merely a means of access rather than a source of income in itself will locate where a firm's management can get better terms regarding the cost of day-to-day operation.     
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