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Author Topic: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism  (Read 13048 times)

7/8

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2016, 07:01:39 PM »

I agree the billingualism is over-the-top. Quebec has hardly any English signs even close to their borders, yet we sign French on the other side of the province (My Dad's side of the family are anglophone Quebecers, so this is a common complaint in my family :-D).

Windsor is a designated area under the Ontario French Language Services Act; apparently there are enough Francophones to justify it, even though most MTO signage is such that a Francophone would have little trouble deciphering it.

As for why Ontario translates "USA" and Quebec doesn't, presumably the Quebec language authorities have decreed that "USA" is actually a French word, much as they decided "STOP" is a French word - after all, it's good enough for France and Belgium and Switzerland, even though stop controls are much rarer in Europe than North America - so they can avoid posting bilingual stop signs.

Do newer stop signs in Quebec say "Stop"? Most of the ones I've seen say "Arrêt", even though, as you said, in France they use "Stop".
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lordsutch

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2016, 08:24:43 PM »

Do newer stop signs in Quebec say "Stop"? Most of the ones I've seen say "Arrêt", even though, as you said, in France they use "Stop".

I think the policy in Quebec these days is to only post STOP or ARRÊT (predominantly the latter; allegedly there are STOPs posted in some of the Anglophone areas in greater Montreal, but I've not seen one in person) but never a bilingual ARRÊT/STOP sign; apparently posting just one word reduces the number of vandalism incidents where the STOP gets spraypainted over on an ARRÊT/STOP combo sign.
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7/8

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2016, 08:50:41 PM »

Do newer stop signs in Quebec say "Stop"? Most of the ones I've seen say "Arrêt", even though, as you said, in France they use "Stop".

I think the policy in Quebec these days is to only post STOP or ARRÊT (predominantly the latter; allegedly there are STOPs posted in some of the Anglophone areas in greater Montreal, but I've not seen one in person) but never a bilingual ARRÊT/STOP sign; apparently posting just one word reduces the number of vandalism incidents where the STOP gets spraypainted over on an ARRÊT/STOP combo sign.

I've seen a few "Stop" signs, I think in Pointe-Claire, where my uncle lives. It has a high anglophone population.
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vdeane

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2016, 03:47:06 PM »

The reason they don't post both is because, while "Stop" is actually in the French dictionary, posting "Arrêt/Stop" is unquestionably bilingual, which is illegal under provincial law.  The only officially bilingual signs in Québec are posted by either the federal government or First Nations.
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MisterSG1

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2016, 07:33:16 PM »

I agree the billingualism is over-the-top. Quebec has hardly any English signs even close to their borders, yet we sign French on the other side of the province (My Dad's side of the family are anglophone Quebecers, so this is a common complaint in my family :-D). I also think it's silly how the MTO avoids signing American cities. I think the 401 West signs should say Detroit too. Maybe it's because some Canadians are scared of Detroit ;-)

The way I see doing it myself to make everyone happy is to use the approach seen on A-40 with regards to Ottawa. They sign it as Ottawa/Gatineau. Maybe the control city as far back as London could read instead "Windsor / Detroit", as that easily gets the point across. Although this is kind of debatable, as one could argue that the more ideal route to Detroit would involve Hwy 402, so maybe it should stay as Windsor.

Similarly in ideal circumstances, it would indeed be quicker to get to downtown Toronto using Hwy 403 at the 401/403 split in Woodstock, the reason the MTO doesn't recommend this (I've always assumed) is that they don't want to overburden the already overburdened QEW/403 from Brant Street eastward across the QEW to the 427 further.

Hence this makes sense why signs for Pearson Airport tell you to use 403/401 from the QEW in Oakville, when it's more simpler to tell someone to simply take the QEW to the 427. This may also be the reason why the Hwy 427 to QEW diagrammatical sign on Hwy 401 WB approaching 427 SB was removed.

HOWEVER, there is one exception to this "avoiding the QEW" thing, signs immediately south on Hwy 427 beyond the airport tell the driver to use the 427 South to get to Niagara Falls. I believe the reason they do this is to avoid having to put duplicate signage at important points on the 401 and the 403. I mean think about it, there would have to be signs on the 401 telling the driver to take the 403, then another at 403/Cawthra to tell someone to stay on the 403 by keeping to the left, then another at the 403/407 interchange where the driver has to keep right to stay on the same road. All this before we reach the signage already on place on the QEW.
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7/8

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Re: Hwy 401 Extension....missed opportunities and criticism
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2016, 08:00:48 PM »

I agree the billingualism is over-the-top. Quebec has hardly any English signs even close to their borders, yet we sign French on the other side of the province (My Dad's side of the family are anglophone Quebecers, so this is a common complaint in my family :-D). I also think it's silly how the MTO avoids signing American cities. I think the 401 West signs should say Detroit too. Maybe it's because some Canadians are scared of Detroit ;-)

The way I see doing it myself to make everyone happy is to use the approach seen on A-40 with regards to Ottawa. They sign it as Ottawa/Gatineau. Maybe the control city as far back as London could read instead "Windsor / Detroit", as that easily gets the point across. Although this is kind of debatable, as one could argue that the more ideal route to Detroit would involve Hwy 402, so maybe it should stay as Windsor.

I would have thought the 401 would be a fair bit faster, but Google says it's only 10 min faster without traffic than the 402, and that's assuming you go downtown. For North Detroit, it would probably be faster to use the 402. I still think they you could use Detroit on some distance signs and as a control city within Windsor.

Similarly in ideal circumstances, it would indeed be quicker to get to downtown Toronto using Hwy 403 at the 401/403 split in Woodstock, the reason the MTO doesn't recommend this (I've always assumed) is that they don't want to overburden the already overburdened QEW/403 from Brant Street eastward across the QEW to the 427 further.

Hence this makes sense why signs for Pearson Airport tell you to use 403/401 from the QEW in Oakville, when it's more simpler to tell someone to simply take the QEW to the 427. This may also be the reason why the Hwy 427 to QEW diagrammatical sign on Hwy 401 WB approaching 427 SB was removed.

HOWEVER, there is one exception to this "avoiding the QEW" thing, signs immediately south on Hwy 427 beyond the airport tell the driver to use the 427 South to get to Niagara Falls. I believe the reason they do this is to avoid having to put duplicate signage at important points on the 401 and the 403. I mean think about it, there would have to be signs on the 401 telling the driver to take the 403, then another at 403/Cawthra to tell someone to stay on the 403 by keeping to the left, then another at the 403/407 interchange where the driver has to keep right to stay on the same road. All this before we reach the signage already on place on the QEW.

I'm just thankful I almost never need to take the 403/QEW! The 403 between the Skyway and Hwy 6 was crappy enough on Friday nights when I was working in St. Catharines and would drive home to Kitchener for the weekend. But at least that's only about 7 km. That's one highway I would like improved. Currently, two lanes end on the 403 WB at the QEW intersections and it definitely causes backups.
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