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Author Topic: Pennsylvania  (Read 252078 times)

vdeane

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1150 on: December 05, 2019, 01:42:55 PM »

I remain skeptical that they'll get significant traffic relief - at least not if they de-toll that part of I-476, which as far as I'm aware, is not part of the plan.  PA Turnpike tolls are obscene and I'm sure there will be many shunpikers.  Plus traffic going to/from I-84 or Scranton will still need to go that way.
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74/171FAN

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Crown Victoria

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1152 on: December 05, 2019, 07:03:50 PM »

PennDOT wants to know what the public thinks about I-81 in south central PA:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/12/public-input-wanted-to-help-guide-i-81-improvements-website-launched.html

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DJStephens

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1153 on: December 06, 2019, 11:21:30 PM »

An interesting article about the planning for I-78 through the Lehigh Valley:

https://www.mcall.com/business/transportation/road-warrior/mc-biz-road-warrior-interstate-78-corridor-debate-20191119-ncjzr63strg57bft37v5avr56y-story.html

Interesting read. I do think they took a good option on how to route I78 around Easton. It would have been very dumb to take it through town and over the older bridge there. Having a Southern bypass of the city was a better idea. Not making 22 a 3di as well was a missed oppertunity to tie in easton to the interstate grid.

Disagree.  78 should have been kept on the Lehigh Valley Expressway.  Had an aunt/uncle who lived in the area for many years.  Uncle was head of engineering at former Mack Truck facility.   Remember the plans and debates about routing - first way south of the Allentown/Bethlehem metro area and then what was ultimately chosen - the overlay and upgrade of state route 309.   Personally it could have preserved more of the semi-rural character of that area had the Lehigh Valley Expressway (US 22) been properly upgraded through both Easton and Phillipsburg.   Direct and logical.   Political factions in Easton were able to blunt US 22 upgrading to true Interstate standards.   
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Beltway

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1154 on: December 06, 2019, 11:28:32 PM »

Disagree.  78 should have been kept on the Lehigh Valley Expressway.   
[……]
Political factions in Easton were able to blunt US 22 upgrading to true Interstate standards.   
Problem is, how to engineer it thru Easton, deal with Cemetery Curve, and then how to engineer it thru Phillipsburg where there was no freeway for US-22.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Phillipsburg,+NJ+08865/@40.6985537,-75.223117,2739m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c46da371024c57:0xee9545623288de2!8m2!3d40.6937099!4d-75.1901761
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DJStephens

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1155 on: December 06, 2019, 11:33:48 PM »

Yes am aware of the sinuous alignment there.   Not saying it would have been easy, just preferable.  Acquiring a block wide corridor was possible in the early to mid sixties.   
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Beltway

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1156 on: December 07, 2019, 12:48:47 AM »

Yes am aware of the sinuous alignment there.   Not saying it would have been easy, just preferable.  Acquiring a block wide corridor was possible in the early to mid sixties.   
Rather hilly terrain, major grade changes, a couple viaducts.  They would have had to cut thru the a hill and take out a wide swath in that neighborhood.

It was built in the late 1950s and they would have gone thru the neighborhood had it been feasible.
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ixnay

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1157 on: December 07, 2019, 08:28:52 AM »

Yes am aware of the sinuous alignment there.   Not saying it would have been easy, just preferable.  Acquiring a block wide corridor was possible in the early to mid sixties.   
Rather hilly terrain, major grade changes, a couple viaducts.  They would have had to cut thru the a hill and take out a wide swath in that neighborhood.

It was built in the late 1950s and they would have gone thru the neighborhood had it been feasible.

How would have 78 been routed through Phillipsburg*?  Would it have joined the current alignment at exit 3?

*Do locals still call Phillipsburg "P'burg"?  The student in charge of my dormitory wing at Kutztown U when I was a freshman did so.  His girlfriend was from P'burg.  He himself was from Easton.

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Beltway

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1158 on: December 07, 2019, 09:19:02 AM »

How would have 78 been routed through Phillipsburg*?  Would it have joined the current alignment at exit 3?
Good question.  I wonder if an alternative was preliminarily designed for such a route.

The big advantage to the new location I-78 south of the A-B-E-P area is that there are now two major east-west highways thru the region, actually skirting the edges of the built-up area.  Provides service both north and south of the cities.

With the volume of traffic today, an upgraded US-22/I-78 would need at least 8 lanes and there is the aforementioned issue where to route it thru Phillipsburg, or perhaps follow US-22 but use the PA-33 route to connect US-22 to where today's southern bypass of Phillipsburg runs to the east of there into N.J.
 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 09:22:06 AM by Beltway »
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Alps

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1159 on: December 09, 2019, 11:09:33 PM »

Disagree.  78 should have been kept on the Lehigh Valley Expressway.   
[……]
Political factions in Easton were able to blunt US 22 upgrading to true Interstate standards.   
Problem is, how to engineer it thru Easton, deal with Cemetery Curve, and then how to engineer it thru Phillipsburg where there was no freeway for US-22.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Phillipsburg,+NJ+08865/@40.6985537,-75.223117,2739m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c46da371024c57:0xee9545623288de2!8m2!3d40.6937099!4d-75.1901761
Through Easton, elevate it over the cemetery so that you only have to move a few people under each pier. Through Pburg, I think you need a new Delaware River bridge, bypass the heart of town to the north, then swing down into the 24-28 Connector stretch of US 22 and upgrade on the spot from there. Can't do it now, maybe could do it then, but still a lot of takings.

Beltway

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1160 on: December 09, 2019, 11:23:31 PM »

Problem is, how to engineer it thru Easton, deal with Cemetery Curve, and then how to engineer it thru Phillipsburg where there was no freeway for US-22.
Through Easton, elevate it over the cemetery so that you only have to move a few people under each pier. Through Pburg, I think you need a new Delaware River bridge, bypass the heart of town to the north, then swing down into the 24-28 Connector stretch of US 22 and upgrade on the spot from there. Can't do it now, maybe could do it then, but still a lot of takings.
The straightest route to eliminate the cemetery curve would pass thru the neighborhood just south of the cemetery.

The issue is that there is enough of a hill there that there would be a large cut needed, bridging over would entail steep grades.
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qguy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1161 on: December 10, 2019, 06:36:59 AM »

Problem is, how to engineer it thru Easton, deal with Cemetery Curve, and then how to engineer it thru Phillipsburg where there was no freeway for US-22.
Through Easton, elevate it over the cemetery so that you only have to move a few people under each pier. Through Pburg, I think you need a new Delaware River bridge, bypass the heart of town to the north, then swing down into the 24-28 Connector stretch of US 22 and upgrade on the spot from there. Can't do it now, maybe could do it then, but still a lot of takings.
The straightest route to eliminate the cemetery curve would pass thru the neighborhood just south of the cemetery.

The issue is that there is enough of a hill there that there would be a large cut needed, bridging over would entail steep grades.

Sometime around 2000 PennDOT District 5-0 studied boring a tunnel under the hill to straighten the alignment as a safety improvement. I saw a plan of one of the alignments considered when I worked at District 6-0. In the end they abandoned the idea.
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Beltway

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1162 on: December 10, 2019, 06:43:09 AM »

The straightest route to eliminate the cemetery curve would pass thru the neighborhood just south of the cemetery.   The issue is that there is enough of a hill there that there would be a large cut needed, bridging over would entail steep grades.
Sometime around 2000 PennDOT District 5-0 studied boring a tunnel under the hill to straighten the alignment as a safety improvement. I saw a plan of one of the alignments considered when I worked at District 6-0. In the end they abandoned the idea.
Looks like it would be about 4,500 feet long.

That would likely be in the $500 million to $1 billion range, to construct.
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TheGrassGuy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1163 on: December 10, 2019, 02:44:26 PM »

I was looking on Google Maps and saw that an EB ramp had been built between Aramingo and PA 90 in Philly. A much needed connection, even if it destroyed a stub. Anyone know more about that?
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ekt8750

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1164 on: December 10, 2019, 03:29:04 PM »

I was looking on Google Maps and saw that an EB ramp had been built between Aramingo and PA 90 in Philly. A much needed connection, even if it destroyed a stub. Anyone know more about that?

That's part of a larger project to connect Torresdale Av with the Betsy Ross via the alignment of Adams Av. The interchange improvements with I-95 and Aramingo Av (and the elimination of the infamous stub ramps) was the first stage. It's a far cry from the original intent to have a freeway that was to connect the Blvd to the bridge.
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odditude

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1165 on: December 10, 2019, 05:07:08 PM »

Anyone know more about that?

The project site has all the details, and the interchange in question is part of section BRI.
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74/171FAN

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