AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The forum just turned ten years old! Where has all the time gone?

Author Topic: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware  (Read 47539 times)

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4430
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 12:15:28 AM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #550 on: March 07, 2019, 08:41:27 AM »

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?
I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 
I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?
Alps was asking for the source of your AADT stat, Beltway.

It wasn't clear which item he was asking for the source of.   AADT comes from MSHA.
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #551 on: March 07, 2019, 11:18:33 AM »

the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.
That AET mainline toll rate for cars is actually $4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate.  That $3 you're posting is actually the difference (for E-ZPass rates) for southbound traffic staying on US 301 vs. taking Exit 2.

Personally, I'd place the mainline AET gantry within Exit 2.

Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years?
Actually at the earliest, he attended the Delaware Road Meet - 12/16/17 just over a year ago.  A sizable portion of the meet included checking out the then-still-under construction US 301 tollway... including the DE 299/Exit 2 overpass.  Based on your profile, you joined this forum several months prior to that meet; I'm surprised you didn't either attend or at least chime in in that thread.

Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed.
While Middletown has certainly seen some build-up/development; the immediate areas beyond are still open & rural.

I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.

It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.

I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built.
Such is fine... for the Fictional Highways section of this forum.

Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 11:49:52 AM by PHLBOS »
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Tonytone

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 588
  • Age: 20
  • Location: Delaware
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 08:44:20 PM
    • LawnCare Website
U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #552 on: March 07, 2019, 03:01:15 PM »

the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.
That AET mainline toll rate for cars is actually $4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate.  That $3 you're posting is actually the difference (for E-ZPass rates) for southbound traffic staying on US 301 vs. taking Exit 2.

Personally, I'd place the mainline AET gantry within Exit 2.

Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years?
Actually at the earliest, he attended the Delaware Road Meet - 12/16/17 just over a year ago.  A sizable portion of the meet included checking out the then-still-under construction US 301 tollway... including the DE 299/Exit 2 overpass.  Based on your profile, you joined this forum several months prior to that meet; I'm surprised you didn't either attend or at least chime in in that thread.

I was still new to the forum, so I didnt really know how this worked. I was happy I found the forum, I didn’t think anyone talked about stuff like this. That being said when another Delaware road meet is gonna happen, Ill surly join.

Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed.
While Middletown has certainly seen some build-up/development; the immediate areas beyond are still open & rural.

[/quote]
Yes & if you look at the New Castle County GIS Map. Alot of those rural spaces will be gone soon.

I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.

[/quote]
I brought this up because people seem to think Delaware doesn’t get Truck Traffic. Especially the old 301 & new 301. That said, Middletown has truck traffic all night & all day.

It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.

[/quote]
Same shit different areas, why did you not bring up the other things I talked about regarding the 301 & Ramp placements.

I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built.
Such is fine... for the Fictional Highways section of this forum.
[/quote]
Agreeable.

Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.

[/quote]

Ok I agree, but what is causing this? The fact that their is not a free ramp for people to get off of. Cause & effect. If they would have built the ramp or frontage road we wouldn’t have this conversation.

Edit:I need to learn how to do quotes.


iPhone
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 03:06:51 PM by Tonytone »
Logged
Working on Civil Engineer Degree/Creator of Valuez Lawn-Care

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #553 on: March 07, 2019, 04:13:57 PM »

Quote from: Tonytone
I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I haven’t been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11.
The areas you're referring to are well north of the Middletown/Warwick, MD area.
I brought this up because people seem to think Delaware doesn’t get Truck Traffic. Especially the old 301 & new 301. That said, Middletown has truck traffic all night & all day.
Having followed this particular thread for some time, I believe you might be misinterpreting those comments.  They're not saying that US 301 or Delaware, doesn't get any truck traffic at all; just a smaller percentage compared to the rest of the (US 301) corridor's overall traffic.  Nobody else is commenting regarding truck traffic along other Delaware highways because such isn't completely relevant to this thread.

Quote from: Tonytone
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth.
The US 301 toll issue south of the DE 299 interchange & the recent truck shunpiking on local roads in neighboring Warwick, MD have nothing to do with the traffic & development situations in either Newark or Wilmington.
Same shit different areas, why did you not bring up the other things I talked about regarding the 301 & Ramp placements.
Two things:
1. In the case of the I-95 tolls in Newark and the tolled sections of DE 1; there are alternate toll-free roadways that are authorized for truck usage.  Mainly because those expressways (I-95 & DE 1) were constructed to compliment not replace the older roadways.  Such a scenario no longer exists at US 301 at Middletown, DE/Warwick, MD border.

2. The subject of additional truck traffic in this thread was only focused on the nearby local roads near and south of the DE-MD state-line with respect to US 301.  The local roads in Warwick, MD didn't start seeing through-truck traffic until the recent opening the new US 301 tollway opening.  If one wants to have a discussion about truck traffic on other Delaware roadways; one can feel free to start a (new*) thread on such.   *Such a thread may already exist.

Quote from: Tonytone
Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & “Rural Cecil & Kent Counties in MD” are two EXTREMELY different places.
No offense but didn't you even read any of the previous pages & posts of this thread... including the news article links/quotes?  Yes, the new road in question is in Delaware but the (easily predictable) fallout from the mainline AET gantry just north of the DE-MD state-line and the trucks bypassing such has indeed impacted neighboring Warwick, MD.  So talking about the increased truck traffic in Warwick, MD even though the new road only touches the outskirts of the area in this thread is 100% fair game.
Ok I agree, but what is causing this? The fact that their is not a free ramp for people to get off of.
Correct.

Cause & effect. If they would have built the ramp or frontage road we wouldn’t have this conversation.
Not only that, but this thread would only be half as long page & reply-wise.

Edit: I need to learn how to do quotes.
It takes a little practice.  Just get accustomed to doing a fair amount of copying & pasting the quote headers.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 04:20:47 PM by PHLBOS »
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #554 on: March 25, 2019, 11:20:04 AM »

This past Saturday afternoon, I had an opportunity to drive on the new road; I went as far as Exit 2 (DE 299) and turned around.  General observations.

1.  Some of the dashed lane striping, which included a thin black border on each side, was already missing/obliterated along on some stretches.

2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

3.  Traffic was very light; the total number of vehicles (including one truck) both down & back, I could count on one hand.  I'm sure such won't be the case as time progresses.  Such almost tempted me to cross the paved median (for police/emergency vehicles) located about 3/4 mile north of Exit 2 and bypass the round-trip $2 toll.  Given that I was in my black Crown Vic at the time; any unsuspecting passer-by from a distance might've thought "unmarked patrol car" in the median and not given it any thought.
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Alex4897

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 587
  • Civil Engineering Student - Game Developer

  • Age: 22
  • Location: DE
  • Last Login: Today at 01:08:54 AM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #555 on: March 25, 2019, 11:24:31 AM »

2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
Logged
👉😎👉

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #556 on: March 25, 2019, 11:33:23 AM »

2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
I saw no VMS', specifically lit messages, until I was at/approaching until the actual interchange itself.
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4430
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 12:15:28 AM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #557 on: March 25, 2019, 11:36:16 AM »

bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 

How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 905
  • Location: Virginia Beach, VA
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 08:02:57 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #558 on: March 25, 2019, 11:37:53 AM »

bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 

How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
The toll on the roadway is $1 one-way, collected at the ramp toll collection points.

At the state line, an additional $3 is collected one-way.
Logged

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #559 on: March 25, 2019, 01:13:58 PM »

bypass the round-trip $2 toll. 
How does that work … a round-trip in 24 hours is billed $2?
The toll on the roadway is $1 one-way, collected at the ramp toll collection points.
Correct.  All interchanges between DE 1 and the MD State Line have AET gantries at each southbound exit/northbound entrance ramps.  My (E-ZPass) toll was $1 upon exiting southbound (@ Exit 2) and another $1 for getting right back on US 301 northbound at the same interchange.

At the state line, an additional $3 is collected one-way.
Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 905
  • Location: Virginia Beach, VA
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 08:02:57 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #560 on: March 25, 2019, 02:55:38 PM »

Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
So essentially, for locals it's $1 one-way if you traverse between interchanges. For thru-traffic going from DE-1 straight to Maryland, it's $4 one-way. If you're going from DE-1 to Maryland, get off to stop for gas, food, etc. then get back on US 301, you now pay $5 one-way, because of the state-line toll, and the exit toll. Then, if you go from Maryland to Middletown, ride 2 miles of the 13 mile roadway, you pay the full $4, the same rate as someone going the entire 13 miles would. And even better - trucks cannot shunpike it. They're forced onto it, even if they are going into Middletown.

It seems so counterintuitive. Who designed the system? Per-mile tolling seems to be a better solution IMHO. The more pavement you drive on, the more you pay. The less you drive on, the less you pay. Simple. That would be 60 cents for the first 2 miles for traffic entering town, and the full $4 rate for those traversing the entire road.
Logged

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6365
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: April 18, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #561 on: March 25, 2019, 03:28:30 PM »

Not quite correct.  The E-ZPass toll at the southern mainline gantry is $4 for E-ZPass.  Regardless of where one enters the highway; if one uses US 301 to MD, they're paying that higher toll. 

As mentioned way up-thread, this highway is not intended for short-travel between the interchanges.  The toll schedule make such cost-prohibitive.
So essentially, for locals it's $1 one-way if you traverse between interchanges.
Reply #396 reposted below:
Quote from: PHLBOS
Here's breakdown of the passenger vehicle (car) tolls (E-ZPass & Toll-By-Plate).  Note: the Wiki source contained a more direct one-page listing of the tolls whereas DelDOT's own website did not.

Exit/Interchange numbers added (in blue) to the below-quote where applicable:
Quote from: Wiki US 301 Delaware Write-Up
The road has a mainline toll gantry north of the Maryland border and ramp toll gantries on the southbound exits and northbound entrances at the DE 299, DE 71, and Jamison Corner Road interchanges.
The mainline toll gantry costs $4.00 using E-ZPass and $5.60 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles.

The ramp toll gantries cost $1.00 using E-ZPass and $1.40 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 299 interchange (Exit 2),

$0.75 using E-ZPass and $1.05 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the DE 71 interchange (Exit 5),

and $0.50 using E-ZPass and $0.70 using toll-by-plate for passenger vehicles at the Jamison Corner Road interchange (Exit 9).
Your cited-$1 toll would only apply if one was using Exit 2 to leave or initially get on.  If southbounder got on at Exit 9 and got off at Exit 5, they'd pay $0.75.  Any northbounder would pay whatever toll that's charged at the interchange they entered.

For thru-traffic going from DE-1 straight to Maryland, it's $4 one-way. If you're going from DE-1 to Maryland, get off to stop for gas, food, etc. then get back on US 301, you now pay $5 one-way, because of the state-line toll, and the exit toll. Then, if you go from Maryland to Middletown, ride 2 miles of the 13 mile roadway, you pay the full $4, the same rate as someone going the entire 13 miles would.
Simple solution for such would be to either wait until one enters MD or don't get on the new US 301 until one makes that gas and/or food stop.  In DE, one can still access the old US 301 corridor before getting on the new US 301.  Depending on location, most of the former US 301 is either DE 896, 71 or 299.

And even better - trucks cannot shunpike it. They're forced onto it, even if they are going into Middletown.
The earlier-discussed truck toll issue is affects neighboring MD moreso than DE.  Mainly because the old/former US 301 still exists in DE north of Strawberry Lane in Middletown.  Local traffic will still utilize the old corridor even though its route number changed.

It seems so counterintuitive. Who designed the system? Per-mile tolling seems to be a better solution IMHO. The more pavement you drive on, the more you pay. The less you drive on, the less you pay. Simple. That would be 60 cents for the first 2 miles for traffic entering town, and the full $4 rate for those traversing the entire road.
You're preaching to the choir on that one.
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9880
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Latham, NY
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 09:58:49 PM
    • New York State Roads
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #562 on: March 25, 2019, 08:36:07 PM »

Who designed the system?
Someone who wants to ensure that as much of the toll burden as possible is borne by people from out of state.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

ipeters61

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 553
  • Highway Safety Analyst

  • Age: 24
  • Location: Dover, Delaware
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
    • Personal Website
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #563 on: March 30, 2019, 08:55:31 PM »

2.  Insufficient advance signage along DE 1 southbound for US 301 exit.  Granted, there's still some construction work being done in the vicinity of the interchange itself (the US 301 exit ramp's still somewhat of a single-lane cattle-chute for a short distance); but one would think that there would be some advance signage north of the Roth Bridge.  The first BGS for US 301 isn't until one passes Exit 148 (TO US 13 S. St. Georges/LAST EXIT BEOFORE TOLL) and the new ramp is located just prior to the DE 1 mainline toll plaza.

I passed along DE 1 last week and they were doing foundation work in the median SB prior to the Roth Bridge for overhead signage. In the meantime I believe they have VMSs up in lieu of permanent signage.
I saw no VMS', specifically lit messages, until I was at/approaching until the actual interchange itself.
I was in the area today and noticed that the DE-1 SB VMS (north of the Roth Bridge) pointing traffic to US-301 is no longer there.  However, on US-13 south of the St. Georges Bridge, there's a set of (Clearview) signs waiting for installation, related to Exit 147 (US-301) and 148 (To US-13/South St. Georges).  All I could see was a gore sign for Exit 147 and some sign with an Exit 148 tab, but the rest were all facing away from the road, so I don't know what their purpose will be.
Logged
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
Instagram | Why I don't use GPS

ipeters61

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 553
  • Highway Safety Analyst

  • Age: 24
  • Location: Dover, Delaware
  • Last Login: April 22, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
    • Personal Website
Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #564 on: April 13, 2019, 08:26:53 PM »

Not to bump this thread, but I drove by that sign yard on US-13 by the St. Georges Bridge again today, and I discovered that there is a half sign in the pile that says "Annapolis - 2 Miles," which leads me to believe that a 2 Mile advance sign is planned to be put up for the exit.

Another interesting thing I saw was a sign with an Exit 10 tab.  I'm very curious as to what that will be referencing.
Logged
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
Instagram | Why I don't use GPS

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.