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Author Topic: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware  (Read 54538 times)

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #475 on: January 17, 2019, 04:46:50 PM »

They did sign the tolls in Maryland...
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #476 on: January 17, 2019, 04:48:32 PM »

Also they didnt sign the tolls in MD, so it will be a while before people realize & put the word out.

There are billboards on northbound 301 stating that all-electronic tolling is coming, followed by signs 7 and 11 miles before toll 301 confirming that tolls are in force.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #477 on: January 17, 2019, 04:50:45 PM »

I take back my statement.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #478 on: January 17, 2019, 04:59:53 PM »

I'm shocked that Delaware wouldn't want traffic to go on the 301 to create new growth in the area, but even if they match the toll, I-95 traffic will still go that way & they already are paying the $4 plus more, I believe the 301 route is cheaper then 95 correct me if im wrong?
If we're talking about long-distance (south of the DC area) through-traffic; then, yes US 301 even with its new tolls is cheaper than if one stays on I-95.  But for one heading to/from Cecil County, MD; the through-toll amount is the same... at least for E-ZPass users.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #479 on: January 17, 2019, 05:10:22 PM »

I'm shocked that Delaware wouldn't want traffic to go on the 301 to create new growth in the area, but even if they match the toll, I-95 traffic will still go that way & they already are paying the $4 plus more, I believe the 301 route is cheaper then 95 correct me if im wrong?
If we're talking about long-distance (south of the DC area) through-traffic; then, yes US 301 even with its new tolls is cheaper than if one stays on I-95.  But for one heading to/from Cecil County, MD; the through-toll amount is the same... at least for E-ZPass users.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.
Righhht, that would be bad, I guess sometimes it’s easier to keep it simple. Speaking of the highway, does anyone know how the traffic is flowing now & if there are any merge problems? I assume everything is all good.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #480 on: January 17, 2019, 05:40:52 PM »

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #481 on: January 17, 2019, 06:49:43 PM »

Given today's earlier truck accident along I-95 just north of Exit 109 (MD 279) that closed down both directions between there & Exit 1 (DE 896) for a while (loss of toll revenue for the Delaware Turnpike during that temporary closure); one could only imagine what would happen if such occurred along US 301 between Exit 2 and Sassafrass Rd. in Warwick, MD
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #482 on: January 17, 2019, 07:21:26 PM »

Correct.  He's trying to read into info that's not there.  There's simply going to be an EZ Pass rate and a non-EZ Pass rate.  If the rate were to differ based on residency, that would've been mentioned.

That is what I figured, but a few states in the Northeast quietly removed out-of-state discounts. When NY first started discriminating, there was nothing clear online showing that the discount doesn't apply to non-NY accounts. Even today, you have to read a footnote to know that the E-ZPass rate doesn't apply to non-NY tags at the TBTA crossings.
Not sure if you've driven the road yet (and sorry to bring up old news), but I can definitely confirm that there is no surcharge for out of state E-ZPass tags (source is my own E-ZPass account).

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #483 on: January 17, 2019, 07:47:43 PM »

Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 is not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.
I don't see why traffic traveling on to the state line should be charged an additional toll at all.  As I mentioned earlier, that's not how the Thruway does it, and IMO the Thruway has it right.

In any case, if traveling down a ramp is all it takes to save some money, many people would do it.  Exit 2 is a diamond interchange, so unless one prohibited straight-through movements, there would be practically no downside to shunkpiking.

I really, really do not like how Delaware likes to charge predominantly out of state traffic.  Such schemes should be illegal.

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In any case, $1 is less than $3 $4
FTFY
I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #484 on: January 17, 2019, 08:07:00 PM »

Such schemes should be illegal.
I thought this was bad, then the VA I-81 tolling plan was unveiled.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #485 on: January 18, 2019, 12:48:32 AM »

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #486 on: January 18, 2019, 12:56:38 AM »

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Could be, but MD US-301 north of the US-50 split at Queenstown is still an expressway, not a full freeway, and the trip will need to be timed to avoid congested periods on the Bay Bridge.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #487 on: January 18, 2019, 07:40:59 AM »

There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #488 on: January 18, 2019, 07:43:41 AM »

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #489 on: January 18, 2019, 07:52:20 AM »

There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.

"Wrap around the mall", as WDEL's Robin Bryson would call it.

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #490 on: January 18, 2019, 08:02:14 AM »

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

ixnay
It has something to do with the volume of traffic vs. the capacity of the road (I believe it stands for "level of service").  Here's an example: http://www.wilmapco.org/Cms/Kirkwood%20Hwy%202014_OPS_Analysis.pdf
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #491 on: January 18, 2019, 08:49:45 AM »

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #492 on: January 18, 2019, 09:27:38 AM »

Since it's DelDOT's intent to charge through-traffic southbounders more for staying on US 301 vs. leaving at Exit 2; the two gantries, one along the exit ramp, the other being the through-traffic one along the mainline would be the only way to accomplish such without adding additional gantries.  As stated several & multiple posts back, my reasoning for moving the mainline AET gantries within/inside Exit 2 is so that traffic to/from that interchange south to MD via US 301 is not subject to paying a ridiculously high $4/$5.60 toll to ride just over 2 miles.
I don't see why traffic traveling on to the state line should be charged an additional toll at all.  As I mentioned earlier, that's not how the Thruway does it, and IMO the Thruway has it right.
Val, I agree with you in principle; but one needs to keep in mind *devil's advocate mode - on* that DE never had a toll road that operated with the traditional closed-ticket system like much of the NY Thruway as well as the MA (pre-AET conversion), PA (most of it), NJ & OH Turnpikes. 

When the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) first opened, the tollbooths in Newark weren't the only ones in the system.  Southbounders that exited off earlier paid a lower toll at the ramps.  Northbounders that entered onto I-95 beyond the mainline toll plaza had to pay at separate but lower toll at the booths upon entering.  As mentioned before in other threads, the original plan was that once the bonds that built the road were paid off; all of the tollbooths were to be taken down and the Delaware Turnpike was to become a free-interstate.  The removal of the I-95 ramp tolls was the first phase of such a phase-out/conversion but the final phase (the removal of the mainline tolls), sadly IMHO, never happened.  And this was back when the tolls were much lower & reasonable.

Long story short, DE placed the AET gantries and set the tolls rates for US 301 in the same manner that it did for the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) in the 1960s; the only differences being the AET collection mode (such didn't exist when I-95 was first built), the elimination of the old/free state-line crossing (that's my biggest bone of contention) & the toll rates (I still believe that $4 mainline rate is too high).  *devil's advocate mode - off*

In any case, if traveling down a ramp is all it takes to save some money, many people would do it.  Exit 2 is a diamond interchange, so unless one prohibited straight-through movements, there would be practically no downside to shunkpiking.
As mentioned earlier, a couple of the direct-shunpike component routes south of Exit 2 have had long-standing through-truck prohibitions on them.  I don't see such changing anytime soon.  For cars traveling south on US 301 but exiting prior to the mainline AET gantry; one still pays a toll, though much lower, upon exiting.  Such action isn't a full shunpike per se, just a cost savings.

I really, really do not like how Delaware likes to charge predominantly out of state traffic.  Such schemes should be illegal.
For existing free Interstate highways; such practice is.  The I-95 one exists largely because it was grandfathered in and wasn't originally the only tollbooth for the Delaware Turnpike.  I would even bet that had the mainline AET gantry at US 301 been the only gantry proposed; DelDOT would've gotten some flack for from the feds for it even if the highway's not an Interstate.

I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
See Ipeters61's E-ZPass statement below, the mainline E-ZPass toll is indeed $4; which matches, for better or worse, the I-95/Delaware Turnpike toll.  The fore-mentioned $1 E-ZPass toll was for southbound traffic leaving at Exit 2 & northbound traffic entering at Exit 2.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 09:31:19 AM by PHLBOS »
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ipeters61

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #493 on: January 18, 2019, 09:54:19 AM »

I thought it was $3 at the state line and an additional $1 after passing another gantry further down the road?
See Ipeters61's E-ZPass statement below, the mainline E-ZPass toll is indeed $4; which matches, for better or worse, the I-95/Delaware Turnpike toll.  The fore-mentioned $1 E-ZPass toll was for southbound traffic leaving at Exit 2 & northbound traffic entering at Exit 2.

(E-ZPass statement)
From what I observed, the tolls apply to exiting traffic southbound and entering traffic northbound.  So if I get on at Exit 2, for example, and drive northbound to Exit 5, then I pay $1 to enter at Exit 2, but don't pass through a gantry to get off at Exit 5.

If I decide to turn around and head southbound at Exit 5 and get off at Exit 2, I don't pass through a gantry entering at Exit 5, but I pass through a gantry to get off at Exit 2 and pay $1.

If I get back on from Exit 5 to head northbound to Exit 9 or to DE-1, then I pass through a gantry to enter at Exit 5 and pay 75 cents.  At Exit 9 or DE-1, I don't pass through a gantry to leave US-301.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #494 on: January 18, 2019, 09:55:20 AM »

I find it hard to conceive that it will be carrying over 25,000 AADT even 5 years from now, based on the volumes on US-301 in Maryland and the population in the Middletown area.
I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.

Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...

Plus the Bay Bridge toll.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #495 on: January 18, 2019, 10:39:07 AM »

I don't. It's up to Delaware to sell this road to the NY-DC crowd as a signal-free alternative that avoids the typical corridor. It's going to take some time, but once people discover this is here, it may take off.
Until they hit the Bay Bridge at the wrong time...
Plus the Bay Bridge toll.

One-way tolling eastbound.  Westbound no tolls.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #496 on: January 18, 2019, 10:47:48 AM »

From the Who Didn't See This One Coming? department (sarcasm intentional). As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic.

Quote from: CecilDaily.com article
WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.

WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.
The pic. in the article shows an 18-wheeler exiting from Wilson St. onto MD 282.

Quote from: Karen Carpenter of "The Carpenters" music duo
It's only just begun.
:popcorn:
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #497 on: January 18, 2019, 10:54:27 AM »

From the Who Didn't See This One Coming? department (sarcasm intentional). As 301 bypass opens, Warwick sees increased traffic.

Quote from: CecilDaily.com article
WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.

WARWICK — After enduring years of construction and reorientation of many of the roads leading into Maryland from neighboring Middletown, Del., residents who lived near the state line weren’t sure what to expect when the new U.S. Route 301 Mainline bypass toll road opened Thursday afternoon.

For the residents of Warwick and Cecilton, however, it’s been a dramatic uptick of traffic using their narrow streets.
The pic. in the article shows an 18-wheeler exiting from Wilson St. onto MD 282.

Quote from: Karen Carpenter of "The Carpenters" music duo
It's only just begun.
:popcorn:
Wow in the article it says the Md Towns mayors are now going to “sitdown and talk with officals”.

Hundreds of cars on once quiet streets, how well do these people know the roads? Or is waze working hard in redirecting people? Looks like Maryland is gonna build that exit ramp quicker then we expected.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #498 on: January 18, 2019, 11:06:17 AM »

There’s also still no ideal way to connect from DE-1 to I-295. You either go through the lights on US-13 or you go past the mall and deal with the traffic.

If there's no traffic, 1 to 95 to 295 is fine.  If there is traffic, usually 13/40 is kinda slow as well anyway, especially as one nears 295.

Given that US 301 toll road is a 4-laner; I don't believe DelDOT wants a situation where it starts having LOS-F within its first year... like what happened with the 4-lane portion of I-476 within a year after it opened.  Otherwise, they would've built it as a 6-laner.

What's "LOS-F"?

ixnay

To put it simply, traffic flow is graded on a scale of A - F.  LOS A is free-flowing traffic, and traffic can pretty much go whatever speed they want.  LOS B & C means traffic is moving, but flow is somewhat limited by moderate traffic.  LOS D & E has increasing amounts of congestion.  LOS F is congested.

These are often looked at during traffic studies.  Depending on the study, periods of the day will be broken down (ie: Overnight, rush hour, daytime, evening, weekend, etc).  For many traffic agencies, the goal will be to average an LOS C or better whenever possible.  Often that isn't possible during rush hours, but if an upcoming improvement project improves traffic flow to a rating of A, B or C (especially if there's currently periods where daytime traffic is operating at D or worse), then they'll tradeoff some rush hour congestion for better traffic flow the rest of the day.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #499 on: January 18, 2019, 11:15:29 AM »

Because we often think of things as "What have you done for me yesterday", we forget how long these projects have actually been talked about.

Here's DelDOT's website info regarding public meetings.  Notice the dates of the meetings: https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/public.shtml

As for Maryland having any involvement in the project, DelDOT also has webpages with that info, including detailing at least a dozen officials being involved:
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_diversion_wg.shtml
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us301/us301Archive/pages/toll_div_wg_members.shtml
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