AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?  (Read 11544 times)

dgolub

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1844
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Mineola, NY
  • Last Login: March 31, 2019, 02:01:24 PM
    • East Coast Roads
What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« on: September 06, 2016, 08:52:47 AM »

Is it VA 624, SR 624, or SSR 624?  I've seen all three of them in various places.
Logged

WillWeaverRVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1438
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:08:26 AM
    • WillWeaverRVA Photography
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 09:25:20 AM »

I don't think there's any firm rule about it. VDOT doesn't typically distinguish between them when referring to them in most places ("Route X") unless it's talking about upgrading a route from secondary to primary. A lot of people use "VA X" for primary routes and "SR X" for secondary routes since Mapmikey and Froggie use those abbreviations on the Virginia Highways Project.
Logged
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4430
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 11:10:27 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 11:54:47 AM »

Butbutbut, SR = State Route.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

epzik8

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 864
  • Alive Since Ninety-Five

  • Age: 23
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Last Login: April 09, 2019, 02:30:29 PM
    • The Epzik8 Roadpage
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 12:06:51 PM »

I thought they were "county routes"?
Logged
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.

Washington Capitals, 2018 Stanley Cup CHAMPIONS!!!
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/epzik8.gif

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10215
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 09, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 12:37:19 PM »

I thought they were "county routes"?

No.  Virginia never refers to its secondary system as "county" routes.  I have seen them coded that way in the Census Bureau TIGER files (which probably made its way into some GPS units), but that is not really correct.

Note that West Virginia does refer to (what Virginia would call) secondary routes as "county" routes.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

VTGoose

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 244
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Blacksburg, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 09:24:35 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 12:54:06 PM »

Is it VA 624, SR 624, or SSR 624?  I've seen all three of them in various places.

VDOT in various places refers to all roads as a "route" whether it is a U.S. highway, a Virginia primary highway, or a secondary road. In other places, there is a distinction between "VA Route 16" and "Route 738" although it isn't consistent.

VDOT does designate primary and secondary based on the route number:

"Routes within the Primary System are numbered from 1 through 599
statewide and roads within the Secondary System are numbered 600 and
above countywide. There is no relationship between route numbers and the
direction of the routes.

An exception is Interstate Route Number 664, this number would normally
designate a State Secondary Route; however, it is assigned to an Interstate
Route." (Virginia Route Index, http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf)

The AP Style Manual addresses how to identify highways generically, without any specific reference to Virginia. There are some media outlets that will refer to "Va. secondary 735" in a story to give the location of a traffic accident or other incident.

Typically when I am writing directions, I'll use VA 114 for a primary highway and Va. 685 for a secondary route.

Bruce in Blacksburg
Logged

VTGoose

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 244
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Blacksburg, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 09:24:35 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 01:02:55 PM »

I thought they were "county routes"?

No.  Virginia never refers to its secondary system as "county" routes.  I have seen them coded that way in the Census Bureau TIGER files (which probably made its way into some GPS units), but that is not really correct.

That is a quirk in reporting that Virginia has to work around. What the Feds refer to as "County highway" in its inventory (CAD?) programs doesn't uniformly cover Virginia, which uses the designation to refer to secondary routes.

FEDERAL ITEM 5B - ROUTE SIGNING PREFIX - X (1)
INVENTORY – ROADS
KIND-HWY
TABLE - ROADWAY
In the second position, identify the route signing prefix for the inventory route using one of the following
codes:
Code Description

1 Interstate highway
2 U.S. numbered highway
3 State highway
4 County highway    Virginia Note: This code shall be used for secondary routes
in any county, including the counties of Arlington and Henrico.
5 City Street
6 Federal lands roads
7 State lands roads
8 Other (include toll roads not otherwise indicated or identified above)


(from "Updates to the Coding Guide" http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/Coding_Manual.pdf)

Logged

Thing 342

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1216
  • Age: 21
  • Location: NRV / HR, VA
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 10:35:45 PM
    • Thing 342's Road Photos
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 01:43:37 PM »

For maximum clarity, I generally use "VA-XXX" for primary routes and "SR-XXX" (occasionally VA SR-XXX for when dealing with state lines) for secondaries. However, all routes numbered 600 and above (with the above mentioned exceptions of 664, 785, and 895), are secondary routes, so the designation doesn't really matter as much unless talking with people outside the loop.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2566
  • www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 49
  • Last Login: Today at 09:00:02 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 01:52:08 PM »

We refer to them as SR routes because they are officially "secondary " routes.

In VDOT documents they often have described all routes as "route" X.
Logged
Clinch:
I: 4 8 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 40 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSys: VA, DE

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10215
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 09, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 10:37:25 PM »

We refer to them as SR routes because they are officially "secondary " routes.

In VDOT documents they often have described all routes as "route" X.

It is also generally  accepted that anything with a route number greater than or equal to 600 is always a secondary, with the exception of the three above (and I believe I-664 is entirely within municipal boundaries, where there normally are no secondary route numbers to be found).
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Thing 342

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1216
  • Age: 21
  • Location: NRV / HR, VA
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 10:35:45 PM
    • Thing 342's Road Photos
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 12:25:02 AM »

We refer to them as SR routes because they are officially "secondary " routes.

In VDOT documents they often have described all routes as "route" X.

It is also generally  accepted that anything with a route number greater than or equal to 600 is always a secondary, with the exception of the three above (and I believe I-664 is entirely within municipal boundaries, where there normally are no secondary route numbers to be found).
There are some secondaries signed on BGS along I-664 in the Southside, despite the fact they haven't formally existed for decades and aren't signed anywhere else.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10215
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 09, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 10:05:11 AM »

There are some secondaries signed on BGS along I-664 in the Southside, despite the fact they haven't formally existed for decades and aren't signed anywhere else.

Suffolk, right?
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

froggie

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 10352
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: Today at 11:02:42 AM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2016, 10:23:55 AM »

Nope.  The interchanges in question are all in Chesapeake, though one is very close to the Chesapeake/Suffolk line.
Logged

Doctor Whom

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 191
  • Location: the land of America's most worldly but least fun people
  • Last Login: November 16, 2018, 06:01:53 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 05:28:01 PM »

In some parts of the state, I've seen signage referring to both as "Rte." In other parts of the state, I've seen signage using "SR" to refer to both, plus US routes.
Logged

74/171FAN

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1565
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Harrisburg, PA
  • Last Login: Today at 07:06:09 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 08:59:45 PM »

In some parts of the state, I've seen signage referring to both as "Rte." In other parts of the state, I've seen signage using "SR" to refer to both, plus US routes.

I believe most of the overpasses/underpasses uses the "Rte." signage.
Logged
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

dfnva

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 105
  • Location: VA
  • Last Login: October 29, 2018, 05:00:18 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2016, 08:59:39 AM »

Prince William County has no standard way of denoting these designations when route numbers are included on its street signs.



Even U.S. routes are sometimes listed as "SR."



Interestingly, in Pennsylvania's version of the little white sign, every route, whether state primary or secondary, or Federal, is listed as "SR X" ....



However, I do remember old Text-only BGS's in Pennsylvania referring to PA primary routes as PA-x.
Logged

WillWeaverRVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1438
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:08:26 AM
    • WillWeaverRVA Photography
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2016, 12:13:58 PM »

Prince William County has no standard way of denoting these designations when route numbers are included on its street signs.



Even U.S. routes are sometimes listed as "SR."



Chesterfield, Powhatan, and Albemarle Counties do the same thing on their street signs - those signs either give the current block number of the street, or its route number in the form of "SR X" (even for primary and U.S. routes).
Logged
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

Takumi

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3601
  • #yogapantsbutnotstance

  • Age: 33
  • Location: Greater Richmond
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 11:45:10 PM
    • Flashing Lights (blog)
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 04:51:03 PM »

^ As does York.
Logged
Don't pick apart my vision of complete psychotic breakdown, please.  I'm trying to make a point here.

Insta | Kinja

dvferyance

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: New Berlin WI
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 04:39:12 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2016, 10:49:06 AM »

I thought they were "county routes"?
For 2 counties that will actually be correct. Henrico and one other county not sure which one are the 2 that maintain them instead of VDOT. This actually was what was intended until the Byrd act during the great depression that allowed counties to hand the routes over to the state. I have often referred to them as county routes myself even if the secondary routes are maintained by the state they are still done on a county by county basis same thing with Missouri's lettered routes. It's not like the primary routes were the route number only exist once in the whole state.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10215
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 09, 2019, 12:26:51 AM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2016, 01:03:03 PM »

I thought they were "county routes"?
For 2 counties that will actually be correct. Henrico and one other county not sure which one are the 2 that maintain them instead of VDOT.

Arlington County across the  Potomac River from Washington, D.C., which considers itself a county but has many attributes that resemble a city, maintains its own  "secondary" routes, none of which are rural, and nearly all of them resemble urban or suburban streets.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

AlexandriaVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 994
  • Location: Virginia
  • Last Login: March 20, 2019, 09:15:56 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2016, 01:53:25 PM »

I thought they were "county routes"?
For 2 counties that will actually be correct. Henrico and one other county not sure which one are the 2 that maintain them instead of VDOT.

Arlington County across the  Potomac River from Washington, D.C., which considers itself a county but has many attributes that resemble a city, maintains its own  "secondary" routes, none of which are rural, and nearly all of them resemble urban or suburban streets.

Considers?

Arlington County is a county because Virginia law says it is. It is a county with urban and suburban features. I don't know where you come up with this "consideration" stuff.
Logged

WillWeaverRVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1438
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:08:26 AM
    • WillWeaverRVA Photography
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2016, 03:42:25 PM »

Arlington County *is* a county, but for all intents and purposes it acts like (and probably should be) a city. The county's street grid resembles that of a city and it's the smallest county in the state.
Logged
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

AlexandriaVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 994
  • Location: Virginia
  • Last Login: March 20, 2019, 09:15:56 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2016, 05:19:04 PM »

Arlington County *is* a county, but for all intents and purposes it acts like (and probably should be) a city. The county's street grid resembles that of a city and it's the smallest county in the state.

So in other words it is a county with urban features. In other words, a county.

There are plenty of Independent Cities in Virginia that are tiny or not urban (like Chesapeake), but that doesn't make them counties for "all intents and purposes".

The distinction is important too. Outside of maintainging its own roads, Arlington has more in common with Tazewell County than Alexandria when it comes to self-rule (e.g. County Board vs mayor, taxation and other powers go through Richmond, etc).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:27:54 PM by AlexandriaVA »
Logged

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9853
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: April 17, 2019, 10:52:53 PM
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2016, 07:30:09 AM »

The legal distinction between a county and a city is a Very Big Deal in Virginia. Aside from the issues noted above, a city does not enjoy the sovereign immunity a county does. The topic is important enough that the bar review classes devote an entire day to it.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

WillWeaverRVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1438
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:08:26 AM
    • WillWeaverRVA Photography
Re: What's the correct way to refer to Virginia secondary routes?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2016, 10:22:00 AM »

The legal distinction between a county and a city is a Very Big Deal in Virginia. Aside from the issues noted above, a city does not enjoy the sovereign immunity a county does. The topic is important enough that the bar review classes devote an entire day to it.

That would probably explain why Arlington County hasn't made any effort to become a city.
Logged
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.