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Author Topic: Routes that are difficult to clinch  (Read 7155 times)

PHLBOS

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 11:20:10 AM »

Not sure if this meets the criteria but I'll throw it out there:

MA 1A in Boston between the Sumner/Callahan Tunnels and the O'Neill Tunnel (I-93/US 1) post-Big Dig.  One can not directly access I-93/US 1 Southbound after exiting the Sumner Tunnel (MA 1A South); signs direct those heading south of Logan Airport to use the Ted Williams Tunnel (I-90 West). 

Conversely, one can not directly access the Callahan Tunnel (MA 1A North) from I-93/US 1 Northbound; signs direct those heading to Logan Airport & the coast to use the fore-mentioned Ted Williams Tunnel (I-90 East).
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Rothman

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2017, 11:53:03 AM »



Quote from: Rothman
I-185.  They have removed the turnaround at the old in-the-median visitor center and therefore you end up at the gate for Fort Benning...

...as I found out last year.

I was under the impression that I-185 ended at the US 27 interchange, and south of there was an Army-maintained freeway.  GDOT maps and FHWA sources seem to confirm this.

An Army-maintained interstate is still an interstate.  The "End I-185" shield is south of Exit 1A southbound.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2017, 12:48:20 PM »



Quote from: Rothman
I-185.  They have removed the turnaround at the old in-the-median visitor center and therefore you end up at the gate for Fort Benning...

...as I found out last year.

I was under the impression that I-185 ended at the US 27 interchange, and south of there was an Army-maintained freeway.  GDOT maps and FHWA sources seem to confirm this.

An Army-maintained interstate is still an interstate.  The "End I-185" shield is south of Exit 1A southbound.

The END shield is within the interchange currently...

https://goo.gl/maps/KuEnGqVXybx

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US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
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Rothman

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2017, 12:51:26 PM »





Quote from: Rothman
I-185.  They have removed the turnaround at the old in-the-median visitor center and therefore you end up at the gate for Fort Benning...

...as I found out last year.

I was under the impression that I-185 ended at the US 27 interchange, and south of there was an Army-maintained freeway.  GDOT maps and FHWA sources seem to confirm this.

An Army-maintained interstate is still an interstate.  The "End I-185" shield is south of Exit 1A southbound.

The END shield is within the interchange currently...

https://goo.gl/maps/KuEnGqVXybx

Yes, but you have to travel past the off-ramp for Exit 1A to pass the END sign.
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michravera

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2017, 01:14:40 PM »

Like 1's easy to clinch thread, list roads that have things like seasonal or governmental restrictions, or just even poor to nonexistent signage, that make it difficult to clinch a road.

I'll start with WA 20 - seasonal closure over the Cascades

Nexus 6P

I started to write this as a contrary example in the "by accident" thread.

I will confine my comments to routes of 500 km or less. In California, for instance, clinching CASR-1 or US-101 requires a lot of effort both due to their length and the illogic of traversing the entire route.

There are a lot of routes in California whose individual segments make sense and the adjoining ones all make perfect sense, but which traversing the entire length is either illogical or difficult due to discontinuities.
The prime offender is CASR-65. It was intended to be a 500 km long route to parallel CASR-99. What exists today is 2 100 km long segments separated by a 300 km route that is currently undefined and unconstructed.
I believe that it is CASR-178 that poses similar problems (but the unconstructed portion is short and really inconvenient to get from one part to the other).
CASR-41's segments make plenty of individual sense, but no one really goes from Morro Bay to Yosemite. Fresno to Morro Bay? Abosolutely! Fresno to Yosemite? Of course.
CASR-16 is discontinuous and illogical as an end-to-end route. You'd have to make a concerted effort to clinch it.
CASR-4, CASR-84, and CASR-160 are perfectly logical in segments, but don't make as much sense as end-to-end routes.
I could say the same thing about CASR-12 and CASR-33.

A lot of California's East-West state highways (like CASR-41) tend to have a logical center point and logical end points but no obvious reason to go between the two end points. CASR-180, -198, -152, -156, -299, -20, -46 all fit the bill.

... and all of that without introducing any technicallities such as the easternmost 3 meters of the route's being blocked off by a gate or a bridge that has been out for 15 years or that the westernmost 100 meters requiring a ferry that only operates two months of the year or the like.





Agree on most of these points regarding CA's disconnected segments; the shorter or secondary segments need to be renumbered:  the north CA 65, CA 84 from Rio Vista to W. Sacramento, the North Sac stub-end of CA 160, and the east portion of CA 16.  There's a lot of previously deleted designations between 1 and 200 that could be applied to these segments; it would simply take a legislative act (and some signage cost) to do so.

Regarding the longer routes such as CA 41 and CA 33 -- they've got real historical significance, so leaving them alone would likely be the best option -- just consider the sections as SIU's.  BTW, I've done CA 46 fully east to west in order to get from the high desert to the Big Sur area without dealing with L.A. and environs (and I'll wager I'm not alone here).

I didn't suggest renumbering or anything of the kind. CASR-41 makes perfect sense as two routes that meet in the middle. Why would you change route numbers in the middle? My point is that you wouldn't likely have a reason to go from Yosemite to Morro Bay. Likewise, you might very well have a good reason to drive some portion (even a couple of the segments) of CASR-33, but not its whole length.

The Eastern portion of CASR-16 was the portion that I grew up knowing (since I basically lived on it). I didn't know about the WESTERN part until I got out and about (or saw some signs in downtown Sacramento).
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2017, 01:26:43 PM »





Quote from: Rothman
I-185.  They have removed the turnaround at the old in-the-median visitor center and therefore you end up at the gate for Fort Benning...

...as I found out last year.

I was under the impression that I-185 ended at the US 27 interchange, and south of there was an Army-maintained freeway.  GDOT maps and FHWA sources seem to confirm this.

An Army-maintained interstate is still an interstate.  The "End I-185" shield is south of Exit 1A southbound.

The END shield is within the interchange currently...

https://goo.gl/maps/KuEnGqVXybx

Yes, but you have to travel past the off-ramp for Exit 1A to pass the END sign.

The END shield and the Exit 1A sign are all of 128 ft apart.  There are innumerable END signs in the world that are this distance short of where the road runs into the crossroad.  This doesn't mean the route ends 128 ft short of the crossroad. 

You can certainly be as tight as you want about what you consider clinched but I would gather most people who enter/exit at US 27 have considered themselves clinching the south end of I-185...
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Eth

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2017, 01:46:16 PM »

(several nested quotes trimmed out)

The END shield and the Exit 1A sign are all of 128 ft apart.  There are innumerable END signs in the world that are this distance short of where the road runs into the crossroad.  This doesn't mean the route ends 128 ft short of the crossroad. 

You can certainly be as tight as you want about what you consider clinched but I would gather most people who enter/exit at US 27 have considered themselves clinching the south end of I-185...

Alternatively, you can look at it from the other direction. Last time I went through this interchange, the BEGIN sign didn't appear until after merging onto the freeway from US 27/280 south/eastbound (GSV).

Then again, I'm not sure how useful that really is, since apparently that loop ramp doesn't even exist anymore.

---

As for other hard-to-clinch routes in Georgia, it's hard to beat GA 177 and its gap through the Okefenokee sending you an hour and a half out of the way to get to the other side.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2017, 01:55:58 PM »

CA 84 and CA 65 have big gaps in them making them difficult to clinch.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2017, 01:57:22 PM »

Are we counting US 2 as one highway?

If so, that one seems like a logistical nightmare to clinch.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »

On the basis of gaps, Maryland routes 7 and 144.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2017, 02:30:17 PM »



but I would gather most people who enter/exit at US 27 have considered themselves clinching the south end of I-185...

Such people lack devotion.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2017, 02:51:44 PM »

Are we counting US 2 as one highway?

If so, that one seems like a logistical nightmare to clinch.

US 2 is difficult for being long, but the gap doesn't make it any harder than than the others that go from one coast to the other (or if you want to compare to another east-west route that hits a border crossing instead, US 62).
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2017, 04:56:25 PM »



but I would gather most people who enter/exit at US 27 have considered themselves clinching the south end of I-185...

Such people lack devotion.

I stopped short of the gate at Fort Benning and turned around. I guess it happens enough; I waved that I needed to turn around, the guards smiled and gave the same wave back.

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2017, 05:12:35 PM »

Pam American highway. :bigass:
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Rothman

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2017, 08:14:13 PM »



but I would gather most people who enter/exit at US 27 have considered themselves clinching the south end of I-185...

Such people lack devotion.

I stopped short of the gate at Fort Benning and turned around. I guess it happens enough; I waved that I needed to turn around, the guards smiled and gave the same wave back.

Like I said, the problem now is that they've gotten rid of the visitor center and turnaround that there was right before the gate in the median of the parkway.  You're now channeled into the gate due to a new visitor center on the right-hand side of the parkway, rather than in the middle.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2017, 08:16:17 PM »

CA 4 is surprisingly difficult because of the sheer vastness of different terrain the route covers from being an urban freeway to a single-lane 24% highway up in the Sierras on Ebbetts Pass prone to winter closures.  Most drivers just plain don't possess the skill in Navigation to find Ebbetts Pass much less get down from it safely.

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2017, 09:27:13 PM »

Pam American highway. :bigass:

Non-stick surfaces make this one a truly difficult clinch.

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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2017, 09:36:10 PM »

MN 289 was mentioned for being partly inside a correctional facility.

I'll add MN 11 because its eastern terminus is a dead end 7 miles east of Ranier with no other thru roads back to International Falls connecting to it along that 7-mile stretch so to clinch it is a notably out-of-the-way process.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2017, 12:07:05 PM »

Any of the highways that take you through a National Park in mountainous areas.  In the winter, it's impassable due to snow; in the summer, it's a pain to navigate through the crowds piling into the park.  Possible examples include CA-120, UT-9, US2 in Montana, and anything passing through Yellowstone.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2017, 02:21:00 PM »

Any of the highways that take you through a National Park in mountainous areas.  In the winter, it's impassable due to snow; in the summer, it's a pain to navigate through the crowds piling into the park.  Possible examples include CA-120, UT-9, US2 in Montana, and anything passing through Yellowstone.
Would it be easier to clinch them if they did not exist? :bigass:
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2017, 06:10:38 PM »

MN 289 was mentioned for being partly inside a correctional facility.

I'll add MN 11 because its eastern terminus is a dead end 7 miles east of Ranier with no other thru roads back to International Falls connecting to it along that 7-mile stretch so to clinch it is a notably out-of-the-way process.

The thing about MN-289 is that, from aerials and the limited amount of GSV available, this doesn't seem like that difficult a one to clinch. There's definitely no getting eastern terminus photos (there's a sign at the end of the available GSV that says no cameras/picture taking) unless you're willing to risk getting caught, but there isn't any gate or anything that you have to pass through so it's definitely possible, if only maybe a little suspicious to just drive in and then turn around at the point where it ends. I guess, all things considered, that still makes it a little difficult to clinch, but I did it with MN-298 a few years ago, which does something slightly similar.

MN-333 would've probably been more difficult, back when it existed.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 06:16:26 PM by MNHighwayMan »
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2017, 06:23:39 PM »

Believe it or not, I-684 is a tough one to clinch.  At the southern end, only traffic going to I-287 is actually on I-684; those that use the Hutch Parkway approach are on RR 984J.  At the northern end, about 90% (if not more) of traffic exits onto I-84 or US 6/US 202/NY 22 South; only those continuing thru on NY 22 North officially reach the northern end.

Now, as far as clinching I-684's CT portion, it's impossible not to unless you have 4WD and avoid getting arrested for trespassing :)
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2017, 06:42:46 PM »

The Storm King Highway (NY 218) has a section that tends to get closed due to winter weather or other inclement weather.

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned either the Dalton Highway (AK 11) or the Dempster Highway (YT 5/NT 8), considering that my understanding is that you need tires that can handle 400+ miles of unpaved road, a couple of spare tires, and a radio or satellite phone if you want to be able to count on making it back in one piece.  Also, the Dempster has the ferry/ice bridge crossings that are not passable in the spring and fall when the rivers are partially frozen.
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2017, 06:48:40 PM »

I-84.  East or West, pick your poison...LOL!  Short of being a 48 state trucker, I cannot see too many folks getting the chance to do both and thus claim the I-84 King Of The Road award.

Rick
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Re: Routes that are difficult to clinch
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2017, 07:08:50 PM »

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned either the Dalton Highway (AK 11) or the Dempster Highway (YT 5/NT 8), considering that my understanding is that you need tires that can handle 400+ miles of unpaved road, a couple of spare tires, and a radio or satellite phone if you want to be able to count on making it back in one piece.  Also, the Dempster has the ferry/ice bridge crossings that are not passable in the spring and fall when the rivers are partially frozen.

You do have a good point. Maybe because they're kind-of obvious choices, as far as Canadian and American highways go? IDK. I think the general thrust of the thread was that of highways in the developed parts of the world that still remain difficult to clinch for reasons other than passing through hundreds of miles of wilderness. I mean, one could list any number of roads in [insert South American or African country here], for example, and probably be right.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:10:57 PM by MNHighwayMan »
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