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Author Topic: Left Lane Camping  (Read 17133 times)

RobbieL2415

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #150 on: November 05, 2017, 07:55:03 AM »

I've lost count of the number of times when I had to slow down to let someone in when they could have easily slipped in front of me if only they had used the ramp and acceleration lane for what they're designed for.

I beg to differ on "easily."  I don't think the majority of drivers on the road have vehicles maintained well enough to shift smoothly at wide throttle openings.  In my experience it is also far from universal for agencies to compensate for adverse grades by increasing the length available for speed changing, and to facilitate smooth acceleration to mainline operating speed by refraining from putting a curve just behind the merge nose.  In Kansas, for example, on-ramps at diamond interchanges tend to be long tangents that finish at a fairly sharp curve at the merge nose, so if you try to accelerate to mainline speed on the tangent, you have to wrench the steering wheel sharply to the right to avoid fouling the nose.
I'm talking about drivers that merge into traffic at 40 mph immediately when the gore ends despite there being plenty of acceleration lane left.  In any case, I can usually make any end of ramp curves at 50 mph barring a loop ramp.
I bet they do that because they think they're already going the speed limit.  My opinion has always been that because most people look straight ahead when driving they don't looks at the speedometer so they always assume they're going the speed limit.
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bzakharin

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #151 on: November 06, 2017, 12:26:08 PM »

I've lost count of the number of times when I had to slow down to let someone in when they could have easily slipped in front of me if only they had used the ramp and acceleration lane for what they're designed for.

I beg to differ on "easily."  I don't think the majority of drivers on the road have vehicles maintained well enough to shift smoothly at wide throttle openings.  In my experience it is also far from universal for agencies to compensate for adverse grades by increasing the length available for speed changing, and to facilitate smooth acceleration to mainline operating speed by refraining from putting a curve just behind the merge nose.  In Kansas, for example, on-ramps at diamond interchanges tend to be long tangents that finish at a fairly sharp curve at the merge nose, so if you try to accelerate to mainline speed on the tangent, you have to wrench the steering wheel sharply to the right to avoid fouling the nose.
I'm talking about drivers that merge into traffic at 40 mph immediately when the gore ends despite there being plenty of acceleration lane left.  In any case, I can usually make any end of ramp curves at 50 mph barring a loop ramp.
I bet they do that because they think they're already going the speed limit.  My opinion has always been that because most people look straight ahead when driving they don't looks at the speedometer so they always assume they're going the speed limit.
That can't be possible. Why do they eventually speed up then? How do they adjust their speed when the speed limit changes?
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kalvado

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #152 on: November 06, 2017, 12:56:35 PM »

That can't be possible. Why do they eventually speed up then? How do they adjust their speed when the speed limit changes?
One of the concepts about speed limit is that speed most people would use on a given stretch of the road is the safe speed, and only top 15-30% have to be slower down. Not fully correct, most likely, and definitely not implemented that way - but driving at the speed you feel comfortable with is often close enough to stay out of trouble.
And a problem here can be with transition from slower street traffic  to highway and back. Going too fast coming from the highway is not uncommon.
DOesn't make it right - but attempts to explain why it happens. 
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webny99

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #153 on: March 18, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »

Here is a sign (admittedly over-simplified and kind of ugly) that I designed that I believe should be posted at every freeway entrance in the US:




Thoughts?  :-P
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 01:44:23 PM by webny99 »
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Rothman

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #154 on: March 18, 2019, 01:48:54 PM »

Here is a sign (admittedly over-simplified and kind of ugly) that I designed that I believe should be posted at every freeway entrance in the US:




Thoughts?  :-P
Pass the truck?
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jakeroot

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #155 on: March 18, 2019, 02:10:30 PM »

This is the sign used in British Columbia, which I think would work elsewhere:


(image from Vancouver Sun)
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RobbieL2415

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #156 on: March 18, 2019, 02:52:22 PM »

Here is a sign (admittedly over-simplified and kind of ugly) that I designed that I believe should be posted at every freeway entrance in the US:




Thoughts?  :-P
Except some states are "slower traffic keep right" for 3+ lane freeways not "keep right except to pass".
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #157 on: March 18, 2019, 03:16:37 PM »

This is the sign used in British Columbia, which I think would work elsewhere:


(image from Vancouver Sun)

That seems to indicate that faster traffic should be passing on the right!

The black vehicle on the right, with a arrow thru the faster looking green car going from the right lane to the left lane would be a more accurate description of a motorist passing.  The black car shouldn't have been in the left lane to begin with!
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jakeroot

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #158 on: March 18, 2019, 05:20:35 PM »

This is the sign used in British Columbia, which I think would work elsewhere:


(image from Vancouver Sun)

That seems to indicate that faster traffic should be passing on the right!

The black vehicle on the right, with a arrow thru the faster looking green car going from the right lane to the left lane would be a more accurate description of a motorist passing.  The black car shouldn't have been in the left lane to begin with!

The sign was created with the expectation that it would need to speak directly to left lane hogs: "change into the right lane to allow cars, behind you, to then pass you". The black arrow is telling drivers what to do, and the green car with the streaks behind it, is indicating that your action will allow a faster car to continue.

I think most people know that the left lane is only for passing. What they don't seem to understand is that, in most places, you then have to get back over. This is to whom this sign is directed towards.
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webny99

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #159 on: March 18, 2019, 06:17:44 PM »

The sign was created with the expectation that it would need to speak directly to left lane hogs: "change into the right lane to allow cars, behind you, to then pass you". The black arrow is telling drivers what to do, and the green car with the streaks behind it, is indicating that your action will allow a faster car to continue.

I think most people know that the left lane is only for passing. What they don't seem to understand is that, in most places, you then have to get back over. This is to whom this sign is directed towards.

That sign is definitely a step in the right direction.

However, it has been my experience that most drivers hanging out in the left lane believe it is the "fast" lane, and that they somehow have exclusive rights to decide what "fast" means. They regard the act of passing other cars as the effect of being in the fast lane, rather than the cause for being there.

This backwards thinking is what causes so many problems on busy rural freeways. I think my diagram gets at the issue in a more explicit way than the BC sign. There should not need to be faster traffic present to oblige/pressure you to move right, it should be instinctive.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #160 on: March 18, 2019, 06:35:49 PM »

The sign was created with the expectation that it would need to speak directly to left lane hogs: "change into the right lane to allow cars, behind you, to then pass you". The black arrow is telling drivers what to do, and the green car with the streaks behind it, is indicating that your action will allow a faster car to continue.

I think most people know that the left lane is only for passing. What they don't seem to understand is that, in most places, you then have to get back over. This is to whom this sign is directed towards.

That sign is definitely a step in the right direction.

However, it has been my experience that most drivers hanging out in the left lane believe it is the "fast" lane, and that they somehow have exclusive rights to decide what "fast" means. They regard the act of passing other cars as the effect of being in the fast lane, rather than the cause for being there.


I've also heard the excuse that it's the safer lane to be in.  So they just get over because it's safer, and they don't have to deal with merging traffic.
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Flint1979

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #161 on: March 18, 2019, 07:09:47 PM »

I travel on I-75 a lot between Saginaw and Detroit. In Flint at the I-69 interchange you also have the Miller Road interchange tied in with the I-69 interchange, then have the Bristol Road interchange right after that, then the US-23 split soon after that. So the best way to get around all the traffic is to get in the left lane right before the Corunna exit and stay in it until the US-23 split, if you're staying on I-75 you can stay in the left lane but would need to at least get in the middle lane to continue on US-23. It's just a major mess of traffic entering and exiting the freeway. I-69 doesn't have this problem because it doesn't have the interchanges like I-75 does.
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webny99

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #162 on: March 18, 2019, 09:22:30 PM »

The sign was created with the expectation that it would need to speak directly to left lane hogs: "change into the right lane to allow cars, behind you, to then pass you". The black arrow is telling drivers what to do, and the green car with the streaks behind it, is indicating that your action will allow a faster car to continue.
I think most people know that the left lane is only for passing. What they don't seem to understand is that, in most places, you then have to get back over. This is to whom this sign is directed towards.
That sign is definitely a step in the right direction.
However, it has been my experience that most drivers hanging out in the left lane believe it is the "fast" lane, and that they somehow have exclusive rights to decide what "fast" means. They regard the act of passing other cars as the effect of being in the fast lane, rather than the cause for being there.
I've also heard the excuse that it's the safer lane to be in.  So they just get over because it's safer, and they don't have to deal with merging traffic.

Yeah, it's certainly easier cruising at whatever speed you want and not worrying about anyone interfering, but I don't think that translates to safer. It ends up being a recipe for road rage as drivers pile up behind, pass on the right, etc. See: NYS Thruway.

I travel on I-75 a lot between Saginaw and Detroit. In Flint at the I-69 interchange you also have the Miller Road interchange tied in with the I-69 interchange, then have the Bristol Road interchange right after that, then the US-23 split soon after that. So the best way to get around all the traffic is to get in the left lane right before the Corunna exit and stay in it until the US-23 split, if you're staying on I-75 you can stay in the left lane but would need to at least get in the middle lane to continue on US-23. It's just a major mess of traffic entering and exiting the freeway.

I-75 is six or more lanes all the way through that area. I wouldn't think it's necessary to be in the far left lane just because of merging traffic. Better to stick to the middle unless you really are among the fastest traffic. If both the right and center lanes fill up, you always have the option of moving left, but I wouldn't expect that to always be the case.
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Flint1979

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #163 on: March 19, 2019, 07:00:33 AM »

The sign was created with the expectation that it would need to speak directly to left lane hogs: "change into the right lane to allow cars, behind you, to then pass you". The black arrow is telling drivers what to do, and the green car with the streaks behind it, is indicating that your action will allow a faster car to continue.
I think most people know that the left lane is only for passing. What they don't seem to understand is that, in most places, you then have to get back over. This is to whom this sign is directed towards.
That sign is definitely a step in the right direction.
However, it has been my experience that most drivers hanging out in the left lane believe it is the "fast" lane, and that they somehow have exclusive rights to decide what "fast" means. They regard the act of passing other cars as the effect of being in the fast lane, rather than the cause for being there.
I've also heard the excuse that it's the safer lane to be in.  So they just get over because it's safer, and they don't have to deal with merging traffic.

Yeah, it's certainly easier cruising at whatever speed you want and not worrying about anyone interfering, but I don't think that translates to safer. It ends up being a recipe for road rage as drivers pile up behind, pass on the right, etc. See: NYS Thruway.

I travel on I-75 a lot between Saginaw and Detroit. In Flint at the I-69 interchange you also have the Miller Road interchange tied in with the I-69 interchange, then have the Bristol Road interchange right after that, then the US-23 split soon after that. So the best way to get around all the traffic is to get in the left lane right before the Corunna exit and stay in it until the US-23 split, if you're staying on I-75 you can stay in the left lane but would need to at least get in the middle lane to continue on US-23. It's just a major mess of traffic entering and exiting the freeway.

I-75 is six or more lanes all the way through that area. I wouldn't think it's necessary to be in the far left lane just because of merging traffic. Better to stick to the middle unless you really are among the fastest traffic. If both the right and center lanes fill up, you always have the option of moving left, but I wouldn't expect that to always be the case.
It's six lanes and then drops down to four for 4 miles after the US-23 split, then gets it's other lane back after the I-475 merges into it. The I-475 interchange the one at MM 111 is just northbound to northbound and southbound to southbound movements you can't go southbound I-75 to northbound I-475 you'd have to go up to the next exit at Dort Hwy. and turn around.

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.

This is a little further north between Saginaw and Flint and I think I've seen you say that you've been through this area before. After MM 125 which is the northern terminus of I-475 it's eight lanes all the way to MM 148, then goes back to six lanes until MM 155 and then becomes eight lanes again until MM 164 then it's four lanes most of the way to the northern terminus in Sault Ste. Marie but has a stretch or two that has six lanes but not for very long. The entire U.P. stretch of I-75 is one of the least traveled stretches of Interstate anywhere. Most of the traffic crossing the Mackinac Bridge U.P. bound gets off at US-2 and heads west.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #164 on: March 19, 2019, 07:49:25 AM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.

How many pass traffic on the right?
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Flint1979

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #165 on: March 19, 2019, 10:39:34 AM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.

How many pass traffic on the right?
In Michigan a lot. I did it this morning on SB I-75. I was in the left lane and the car in front of me was moving slower than a truck in the middle lane so I switched to the middle lane then into the right lane past them both and got back in the middle lane ahead of the truck. I could have probably waited because it was in the stretch where it was going from 3 Lanes to 4 Lanes.
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webny99

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #166 on: March 20, 2019, 07:52:11 AM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.
How many pass traffic on the right?
In Michigan a lot. I did it this morning on SB I-75. I was in the left lane and the car in front of me was moving slower than a truck in the middle lane so I switched to the middle lane then into the right lane past them both and got back in the middle lane ahead of the truck. I could have probably waited because it was in the stretch where it was going from 3 Lanes to 4 Lanes.

That's where the problem is. The truck should have been in the right lane, and the car in front of you should have been in the middle lane. If people are passing on the right under normal conditions, somebody is doing something wrong.
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RobbieL2415

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #167 on: March 20, 2019, 08:16:43 AM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.
How many pass traffic on the right?
In Michigan a lot. I did it this morning on SB I-75. I was in the left lane and the car in front of me was moving slower than a truck in the middle lane so I switched to the middle lane then into the right lane past them both and got back in the middle lane ahead of the truck. I could have probably waited because it was in the stretch where it was going from 3 Lanes to 4 Lanes.

That's where the problem is. The truck should have been in the right lane, and the car in front of you should have been in the middle lane. If people are passing on the right under normal conditions, somebody is doing something wrong.
The bold might not necessarily apply if the car in front is moving with the speed of traffic. IIRC Michigan has a 3+ lane exception for keep right except to pass.
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kphoger

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #168 on: March 20, 2019, 01:51:18 PM »

IIRC Michigan has a 3+ lane exception for keep right except to pass.

↓  Yep.  ↓

Quote from: Michigan Vehicle Code 257.634 (3)
This section shall not be construed to prohibit a vehicle traveling in the appropriate direction from traveling in any lane of a freeway having 3 or more lanes for travel in the same direction.
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Flint1979

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #169 on: March 20, 2019, 02:24:28 PM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.
How many pass traffic on the right?
In Michigan a lot. I did it this morning on SB I-75. I was in the left lane and the car in front of me was moving slower than a truck in the middle lane so I switched to the middle lane then into the right lane past them both and got back in the middle lane ahead of the truck. I could have probably waited because it was in the stretch where it was going from 3 Lanes to 4 Lanes.

That's where the problem is. The truck should have been in the right lane, and the car in front of you should have been in the middle lane. If people are passing on the right under normal conditions, somebody is doing something wrong.
Yeah exactly. The truck should have been in the right lane and the car in front of me in the middle lane. I would say they were both in the wrong. I'm talking about a car moving like 68 mph in front of me.
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Flint1979

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #170 on: March 20, 2019, 02:27:52 PM »

It's just easier to use the left lane to pass all the traffic entering and exiting the freeway. It's a 3 mile stretch of 5 exits and entrances all leading from or going to major roads.
How many pass traffic on the right?
In Michigan a lot. I did it this morning on SB I-75. I was in the left lane and the car in front of me was moving slower than a truck in the middle lane so I switched to the middle lane then into the right lane past them both and got back in the middle lane ahead of the truck. I could have probably waited because it was in the stretch where it was going from 3 Lanes to 4 Lanes.

That's where the problem is. The truck should have been in the right lane, and the car in front of you should have been in the middle lane. If people are passing on the right under normal conditions, somebody is doing something wrong.
The bold might not necessarily apply if the car in front is moving with the speed of traffic. IIRC Michigan has a 3+ lane exception for keep right except to pass.
On a stretch with three or more lanes in one direction it just means to use the left lane only to pass in. The Michigan State Police were suppose to start enforcing that a few years ago but several people still misuse the left lane.
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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #171 on: March 20, 2019, 02:30:46 PM »

It doesn't matter if the law says you're allowed to cruise in that lane. It's still rude to obstruct traffic. Prime example of a situation where just because something is legal doesn't make it the right thing to do.
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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #172 on: March 23, 2019, 11:29:05 AM »

I can only really talk about Southern California because that's where I've racked up about 95% of my total driving miles, but when it comes to left-lane driving, there's only one unofficial rule: GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY.

Seriously, many drivers out here think that the greatest sin one can commit on the freeway is to drive slower in the left lane than the vehicle behind you. If you're going 100 MPH and the vehicle in front of you is going 90 MPH, the vehicle in front should get out of the way. Doesn't matter if the vehicle in front has to slam on their brakes to un-safely merge into traffic on the right, doesn't matter what the speed limit actually is, doesn't matter how close you're tailgating to show your displeasure, doesn't even matter that both drivers are probably on their phones. The One Rule to Rule Them All is GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY.

From what I've been told by Highway Patrol, the slower traffic keep right rule doesn't supersede the speed limit. Legally, if a vehicle is not going slower than the speed limit, they won't be cited for driving too slowly in the left lane.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 08:18:59 AM by djsekani »
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michravera

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #173 on: March 23, 2019, 12:31:21 PM »

I can only really talk about Southern California because that's where I've racked up about 95% of my total driving miles, but when it comes to left-lane driving, there's only one unofficial rule: GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY.

Seriously, many drivers out here think that the greatest sin one can commit on the freeway is to drive slower in the left lane than the vehicle behind you. If you're going 100 MPH and the vehicle in front of you is going 90 MPH, the vehicle in front should get out of the way. Doesn't matter if the vehicle in front has to slam on their brakes to un-safely merge into traffic on the right, doesn't matter what the speed limit actually is, doesn't matter how close you're tailgating to show your displeasure, doesn't even matter that both drivers are probably on their phones. The One Rule to Rule Them All is GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY.

From what I've been told by Highway Patrol, the slower traffic keep right rule doesn't supersede the speed limit. Legally, if a vehicle is going slower than the speed limit, they won't be cited for driving too slowly in the left lane.

The CHP *DOES* occasionally cite (or at least stop) people up here for poking. Sometimes such drivers are stoned, distracted, can't see well, talking on the phone and keeping a huge distance between them and the car ahead to compensate, but sometimes they are just rude. They need to cite them all due to the "GTFOOMW" rule (which is actually codified in California CVC 21654).
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Beltway

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Re: Left Lane Camping
« Reply #174 on: March 23, 2019, 12:45:31 PM »

Seriously, many drivers out here think that the greatest sin one can commit on the freeway is to drive slower in the left lane than the vehicle behind you.

It is the eternal sin that can never be expiated.  Not even in the confessional booth.  It is worse than smoking reefer.  It is worse than manslaughter.  It is worse than mass murder. <sarc>
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