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Author Topic: Hurricane Harvey  (Read 4803 times)

ilpt4u

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2017, 09:25:01 PM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... the great Chicago Fire of Oct 1871.
Can one really call the Great Chicago Fire a "natural" disaster? It was a combination of human-animal caused, with a cow kicking over a lantern in a barn (so goes the story, anyway)
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Brandon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2017, 12:45:13 AM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... the great Chicago Fire of Oct 1871.

Can one really call the Great Chicago Fire a "natural" disaster? It was a combination of human-animal caused, with a cow kicking over a lantern in a barn (so goes the story, anyway)

More than likely it was someone's lit cigarette on dry straw or carpet.
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Brandon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2017, 12:46:54 AM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... Hurricane Katrina breaks the earth levees to flood New Orleans in Aug 2005....

I take issue with that.  Katrina was a natural disaster...for Mississippi.  In New Orleans, it was a 100% man-made disaster.  If those levees had been properly maintained, the flooding would've been minimal to none.
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bing101

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2017, 05:06:06 PM »

http://www.wsmv.com/story/36278169/sewage-fecal-bacteria-in-hurricane-harvey-floodwaters


Here is an update fecal bacteria in the Flood water sample of Harvey.
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Brandon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2017, 10:20:20 PM »

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2017, 10:22:17 PM »

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2017, 11:33:44 PM »

JJ Watt started a fund to raise money for hurricane recovery.
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ET21

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2017, 10:20:15 AM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... Hurricane Katrina breaks the earth levees to flood New Orleans in Aug 2005....

I take issue with that.  Katrina was a natural disaster...for Mississippi.  In New Orleans, it was a 100% man-made disaster.  If those levees had been properly maintained, the flooding would've been minimal to none.

Man made indeed when those levee walls were only built up to category 3 standards....
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Brandon

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2017, 11:58:45 AM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... Hurricane Katrina breaks the earth levees to flood New Orleans in Aug 2005....

I take issue with that.  Katrina was a natural disaster...for Mississippi.  In New Orleans, it was a 100% man-made disaster.  If those levees had been properly maintained, the flooding would've been minimal to none.

Man made indeed when those levee walls were only built up to category 3 standards....

Katrina was only a Cat 3 at landfall.  Those levees should have handled the storm just fine.  If you want a comparison, look at the photos of the 17th Street Canal.  One side is Orleans Parish, the other is Jefferson Parish.  One side is pretty dry, the other is fully flooded.  The levees on one side were properly maintained, the other wasn't (note the oak trees growing on the levee prior to the storm).
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Brian556

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2017, 12:13:12 PM »

Rather than blame the levees, I say that people should not be living in flood prone areas, especially those below sea level. Trying to go against nature is foolish to say the least.
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adventurernumber1

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2017, 04:25:58 PM »

It is a genuine tragedy to see such devastating hurricanes (Harvey and Irma) occur in such close proximity. Regarding Hurricane Harvey, I truly hope it will not be too long for Houston and elsewhere to recover.  :no:
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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »

They call Hurricane/Tropical storm Harvey the worst natural disaster in US history since... the great Chicago Fire of Oct 1871.
Can one really call the Great Chicago Fire a "natural" disaster? It was a combination of human-animal caused, with a cow kicking over a lantern in a barn (so goes the story, anyway)

Screw that - It IS the worst...
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Bruce

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2017, 05:04:23 PM »

Hurricane Maria seems to be the worst in terms of human cost. Unknown number of dead Americans, a whole U.S. territory of millions without power, a humanitarian crisis, and an ineffective government response. Not to mention the cleanup and rebuilding costs that can't be carried by a territorial government already on the brink of bankruptcy.

wxfree

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2018, 03:13:45 AM »

The report on Harvey has been published.  There's a web page (in an annoying setup with overlapping layers) that gives a synopsis.  The most interesting part to me is near the end, where it shows the Colorado River at Wharton rising to a stage of 51 feet and then leveling off.  It didn't level off because of reduced flows, but because the water was so high it poured over into the San Bernard River, which is in a separate watershed and drains into the Gulf independently from the Colorado.  Out-of-banks flooding happens all the time, but out-of-watershed flooding is a new one to me.  The land is relatively flat, which makes this the kind of place where such a thing is possible.  There's a low-resolution photo showing the overflow between the rivers.

The web page is: http://noaa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=37cc94c4b6944fe39aa296f58636b29f

The full report is at: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/data/tcr/AL092017_Harvey.pdf

The official maximum rainfall was 60.58 inches near Nederland.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2018, 12:59:40 PM »

The most interesting part to me is near the end, where it shows the Colorado River at Wharton rising to a stage of 51 feet and then leveling off.  It didn't level off because of reduced flows, but because the water was so high it poured over into the San Bernard River, which is in a separate watershed and drains into the Gulf independently from the Colorado.  Out-of-banks flooding happens all the time, but out-of-watershed flooding is a new one to me.  The land is relatively flat, which makes this the kind of place where such a thing is possible.  There's a low-resolution photo showing the overflow between the rivers.

Fascinating. The overflow demonstrates how coastal plains develop over time.  As gradient decreases on streams entering an ocean, the amount of sediment they can transport drops accordingly.  So rivers start depositing sediment, the channel fills, and the river diverts left and right.  As every stream along a coast does this, their ever-widening deltas start to overlap, intermingle and shift.  Run this system forward for a while and new land slowly grows into the sea.

It also demonstrates how rivers can switch deltas.  If the gradient on the San Bernard had been steeper than the Colorado to a significant enough extent, erosion would've cut a channel deep enough to permanently divert the Colorado.  (Well, "permanently" being a relative term here.)
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Brian556

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2018, 02:23:54 PM »

The most interesting part to me is near the end, where it shows the Colorado River at Wharton rising to a stage of 51 feet and then leveling off.  It didn't level off because of reduced flows, but because the water was so high it poured over into the San Bernard River, which is in a separate watershed and drains into the Gulf independently from the Colorado.  Out-of-banks flooding happens all the time, but out-of-watershed flooding is a new one to me.  The land is relatively flat, which makes this the kind of place where such a thing is possible.  There's a low-resolution photo showing the overflow between the rivers.

Fascinating. The overflow demonstrates how coastal plains develop over time.  As gradient decreases on streams entering an ocean, the amount of sediment they can transport drops accordingly.  So rivers start depositing sediment, the channel fills, and the river diverts left and right.  As every stream along a coast does this, their ever-widening deltas start to overlap, intermingle and shift.  Run this system forward for a while and new land slowly grows into the sea.

It also demonstrates how rivers can switch deltas.  If the gradient on the San Bernard had been steeper than the Colorado to a significant enough extent, erosion would've cut a channel deep enough to permanently divert the Colorado.  (Well, "permanently" being a relative term here.)

An online report states that the Mississippi River would have diverted to the Atchafalaya River by 1990 had the Old River Control Sturcture not been built
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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2018, 03:31:59 PM »

An online report states that the Mississippi River would have diverted to the Atchafalaya River by 1990 had the Old River Control Sturcture not been built

And, AFAIK, the Mississippi is still trying to. I get the feeling nature will eventually win, it's just a matter of when.
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Hurricane Rex

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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2018, 04:18:16 PM »

An online report states that the Mississippi River would have diverted to the Atchafalaya River by 1990 had the Old River Control Sturcture not been built

And, AFAIK, the Mississippi is still trying to. I get the feeling nature will eventually win, it's just a matter of when.

It's already showing its strain at times. It justs needs the right event (or the next ice age).
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Re: Hurricane Harvey
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2018, 05:01:58 PM »

Park a storm like Harvey over Vicksburg after a wet summer, then look out below!

Over time, the delta switch will become more and more inevitable.  By constraining the lower reach of the river between artificial levees, there will be a steady build up of sediment between them.  This means the artificial levees have to be raised higher and higher to contain future floods.  And a higher and higher gradient will exist between the current channel and the Atchafalaya.  This results in more and more scouring below the Old River Structure that will need remediation.

At some date in the future, a flood will breach either the Old River Structure or the earthen levees above or below it.   When it does, the full force of the Mississippi will churn down the Atchafalaya to the Gulf.  We might be able to brute force the river back into its old channel if money is no object, but that will literally take years.   And the whole exercise will be repeated again a few decades later.
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