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Author Topic: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says  (Read 14102 times)

bandit957

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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2017, 09:18:19 PM »

A lot of radio stations don't know their audience. Why was a local station running cosmetic dentistry ads during 'American Top 40' shows from the '80s?
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 09:13:44 AM »

Newspapers are like your crazy old uncle, who knew who was getting married, who died and when was her funeral, what was on at the movies, who won the ball game in more detal than you could posibably need, what the weather was, and who was puting what in that new construction on route 46.  But to get that information, you had to listen to his crazy rants about politics. 

People found on the internet ways to find out needed information without supporting newspapers' bias.  The level of insularity of newspaper owners in their limosine liberal world is such that they still do not understand that pretty much no one was buying it because they cared what they said about the way the world should be run, but rather despite it.

Newspapers, at least serious newspapers making an actual effort to produce a legitimate product, will be long dead while AM radio will live on for centuries to come.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 09:22:06 AM »

As long as the dominant print media outlets in the United States retain their liberal slant, radio will remain viable because that's where the conservative alternative is.

Yeah but how viable is print media nowadays?
Most if not all of print media now have website versions of their media where one can download their available news.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:10 AM »

As long as the dominant print media outlets in the United States retain their liberal slant, radio will remain viable because that's where the conservative alternative is.

Yeah but how viable is print media nowadays?
Most if not all of print media now have website versions of their media where one can download their available news.

And in that medium, WaPo and the NY Times are just as accessible as Breitbart or Drudge. The latter two are probably MORE accessible since they don't have paywalls.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 11:52:31 AM »

A lot of radio stations don't know their audience. Why was a local station running cosmetic dentistry ads during 'American Top 40' shows from the '80s?

Because that's who their version of Herb Tarlek could get to advertise and pay the bills.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 11:56:28 AM »

It should be noted that two of the major stations groups, Cumulus Media (currently trading at 39 cents a share) and iHeartMedia (currently trading at $1.32 per share) are currently hovering above bankruptcy having high amount of debt from accumulating too many stations. KGO (AM), when the ownership was changed from ABC to Cumulus, has been decimated over the past few years, and the ratings have tanked.

This.  The problem isn't that radio isn't viable.  It is.  The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.  They make every station into a cookie-cutter image of every other station out there.  No variety, no individuality, no personality.  They, by themselves, are responsible for the presumed death of radio as a medium.  Get rid of them, and radio might actually be revived.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2017, 12:07:04 PM »

As long as the dominant print media outlets in the United States retain their liberal slant, radio will remain viable because that's where the conservative alternative is.

Yeah but how viable is print media nowadays?
Most if not all of print media now have website versions of their media where one can download their available news.

And in that medium, WaPo and the NY Times are just as accessible as Breitbart or Drudge. The latter two are probably MORE accessible since they don't have paywalls.

Philly.com just went to a paywall system, although I think it has to do with the commenting. I jumped on using a browser without logging in, and I could view things just fine.

The commenting though is way, way down.  For a Philadelphia Eagles story for example, hundreds of comments would've been posted in the early morning.  When I looked today, it was something like 38 comments.
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bandit957

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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2017, 01:58:56 PM »

The comments on most newspaper websites are garbage.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2017, 06:54:28 PM »

It should be noted that two of the major stations groups, Cumulus Media (currently trading at 39 cents a share) and iHeartMedia (currently trading at $1.32 per share) are currently hovering above bankruptcy having high amount of debt from accumulating too many stations. KGO (AM), when the ownership was changed from ABC to Cumulus, has been decimated over the past few years, and the ratings have tanked.

This.  The problem isn't that radio isn't viable.  It is.  The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.  They make every station into a cookie-cutter image of every other station out there.  No variety, no individuality, no personality.  They, by themselves, are responsible for the presumed death of radio as a medium.  Get rid of them, and radio might actually be revived.

Bruce Springsteen did a song called "Radio Nowhere" during the last decade.  How ironic there were no radio stations playing modern rock since modern rock had basically ceased to exist!


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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 05:18:18 AM »

Shortwave is going to disappear, I mean the once globally renowned BBC hasn't been on for awhile. 
While the World Service does make use of shortwave (along with other things - mostly internet these days, though FM/MW radio too), it's the BBC's longwave that you have to worry about stopping. Longwave can penetrate the waves, and if Radio 4 stops broadcasting on Longwave, then Britain's nuclear submarine captains have evidence that orders must be executed, and it might be that shortwave radio quickly becomes all we have got...

Of course, the LW signal for Radio 4 won't be going anywhere what with the 150-year old Shipping Forecast needing LW to reach North Utsire, German Bight, FitzRoy and Southwest Ireland. And even in this modern age, the Greenwich Time Signal (broadcast by radio since 1924) not being broadcast on LW and able to be received anywhere in the UK, Ireland, surrounding waters and the continent, would be deeply controversial.
I'll also add that some local newspapers hold a right wing bend, I grew up in a county where this was the case. With the rise of the internet though, I feel like you could find easily the media of your political persuasion online.
The local paper here (in an area that would vote in whatever is wearing the Tory rosette - a pint of beer, a head of cabbage, whatever. And Labour are basically nowhere, with the LibDems typically being the opposition) is owned by The Mirror Group, whose national offering is a virulent Labour supporting gutter press rag (that, because Right Wing people tend to be less hateful of political opponents doesn't get the same hate that The Sun or The Daily Mail do. It hacked more phones than anyone, but came out of the controversy without much negativity about it, and Piers Morgan didn't even get charged for lying under oath when he said that his paper never hacked) so, in between the shoddy journalism that one not well paid journalist who has to write two papers will inevitably create, is all sorts of stuff designed to push a Labour agenda without looking blatantly partisan - eg votes for 16 year olds.

Now, votes for 16 year olds has merits, and blocking it is somewhat cynical by the Tories, however the main reason why the left want it is openly a political "they'll vote for us, we want them" (despite the left raising the smoking and lottery ages from 16 to 18 about 10 years ago). A couple of weeks ago an MP tweeted "A 16 year old can have sex with their MP, but not vote for them. How is this right?" - this MP then had to delete the tweet as it was pointed out that MPs cannot legally have sex with under-18s (ditto teachers, etc) due to their position of power - this MP is a lawyer, and IIRC even voted for this recentish law - and got laughed at for this error. Of course, my local paper put it as 'tweet of the week' without any irony or conception of the controversy, because the brainless Mirror Group told them too.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 10:38:18 AM »

"Traditional Radio" is all but gone. Most local stations subscribe to a satellite feed that they try to pass off as local. One station here has about 6 hours of true local programming a week.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 10:54:43 AM »

limosine liberal world

Quit pretending that the prophets of fear and rage are "just like you and me": they're mouthpieces for their advertisers, and toe whatever line that's fed to them until they offend an sponsor.

Radio will probably survive for a few more years; there's lots of reasons it will (it's essentially "free", well-established, and infrastructure is relatively solid), and won't (limited playlists/genre, average sound quality at best, loss of local color, limited to broadcast region, repetitive, additional chatter). Someone always buys an existing station and changes up the the format, so there must be an audience, even if it isn't for me.

I go to repair shops frequently around the country, and most techs opt for online radio or their own music playlists. Admittedly, the ability to skip unwanted songs online is tough to beat, and it's currently impossible for radio to perform that task.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:09:34 AM by formulanone »
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US71

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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2017, 11:17:22 AM »

It should be noted that two of the major stations groups, Cumulus Media (currently trading at 39 cents a share) and iHeartMedia (currently trading at $1.32 per share) are currently hovering above bankruptcy having high amount of debt from accumulating too many stations. KGO (AM), when the ownership was changed from ABC to Cumulus, has been decimated over the past few years, and the ratings have tanked.

This.  The problem isn't that radio isn't viable.  It is.  The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.  They make every station into a cookie-cutter image of every other station out there.  No variety, no individuality, no personality.  They, by themselves, are responsible for the presumed death of radio as a medium.  Get rid of them, and radio might actually be revived.

What about Sirius-XM?
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »

"Traditional Radio" is all but gone. Most local stations subscribe to a satellite feed that they try to pass off as local. One station here has about 6 hours of true local programming a week.

I think that depends on the market. At least here in Seattle, most of the top radio stations have their own DJs that broadcast from Seattle-based studios. The two main talk stations receive national news from the major networks every half hour (CBS and ABC), but otherwise, it's just locals talking on the radio. Overnight, they both subscribe to national broadcasts however.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2017, 05:33:02 PM »


Well this was an example when commercial talk radio was great though.  Today if one wants to listen to talk radio that's sane they would have to go to their local NPR affiliate for that.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2017, 11:14:38 PM »

"Traditional Radio" is all but gone. Most local stations subscribe to a satellite feed that they try to pass off as local. One station here has about 6 hours of true local programming a week.

Arkansas is heavily Cumulus.
I think that depends on the market. At least here in Seattle, most of the top radio stations have their own DJs that broadcast from Seattle-based studios. The two main talk stations receive national news from the major networks every half hour (CBS and ABC), but otherwise, it's just locals talking on the radio. Overnight, they both subscribe to national broadcasts however.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2017, 03:41:43 PM »

The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.

Not even close.  Cumulus owns 447 stations, iHeart owns 850.

As of June 30, 2017, there are 15,512 radio stations (4646 AM's, 6755 commercial FM's, 4111 non-commercial FM's).

Get rid of them, and radio might actually be revived.

What guarantee do you have that a new owner would be any better?
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2017, 03:55:33 PM »

What about Sirius-XM?

Not a significant factor.

As of Q2/2017, SiriusXM has about 32 million subscribers, spread out over about 175 radio channels and at least that many online channels.  About 35 million listeners use satellite radio over a typical seven-day period.  The top-rated all-news station in New York, WINS, reaches that many people every 36 hours.

Radio listening in cars is 66% of the total audience.  Satellite radio is at 10% in cars, which is where most satellite radios are.

SiriusXM makes enough from subscriptions to be profitable, but their figures aren't growing that fast to make them a significant factor.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2017, 04:46:07 PM »

The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.

Not even close.  Cumulus owns 447 stations, iHeart owns 850.

As of June 30, 2017, there are 15,512 radio stations (4646 AM's, 6755 commercial FM's, 4111 non-commercial FM's).

That may be true if we’re looking strictly at the number of licensed stations and treating each one as an equal citizen of the broadcast media landscape.

But if we weighted the relative “value” of those stations based on the number of listeners or the radiated power of their transmitters, I think we’d get a figure that shows a much tighter grip on the airwaves by a relative few owners (iHeart, Cumulus, etc.).

For example, here are the top 10 FM stations for New York (based on the most current list I could find quickly):

1. WLTW-FM – 5,013,600 - iHeart
2. WHTZ-FM – 4,388,300 - iHeart
3. WKTU-FM – 4,136,500 - iHeart
4. WCBS-FM – 3,591,800 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
5. WBMP-FM – 3,000,500 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
6. WNEW-FM – 2,838,700 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
7. WAXQ-FM – 2,761,900 - iHeart
8. WQHT-FM – 2,666,100 - Emmis
9. WWPR-FM – 2,577,600 - iHeart
10. WPLJ-FM – 2,299,900 - Cumulus

iHeart (the #1 owner of radio stations in the country) alone owns half of the top 10 FMs in a single market—and Cumulus and Entercom own the #2 and #4 largest U.S. radio station portfolios, respectively.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2017, 04:04:34 PM »

The problem is the gobbling up of most stations by Cumulus Media and iHeartMedia.

Not even close.  Cumulus owns 447 stations, iHeart owns 850.

As of June 30, 2017, there are 15,512 radio stations (4646 AM's, 6755 commercial FM's, 4111 non-commercial FM's).

That may be true if we’re looking strictly at the number of licensed stations and treating each one as an equal citizen of the broadcast media landscape.

But if we weighted the relative “value” of those stations based on the number of listeners or the radiated power of their transmitters, I think we’d get a figure that shows a much tighter grip on the airwaves by a relative few owners (iHeart, Cumulus, etc.).

For example, here are the top 10 FM stations for New York (based on the most current list I could find quickly):

1. WLTW-FM – 5,013,600 - iHeart
2. WHTZ-FM – 4,388,300 - iHeart
3. WKTU-FM – 4,136,500 - iHeart
4. WCBS-FM – 3,591,800 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
5. WBMP-FM – 3,000,500 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
6. WNEW-FM – 2,838,700 - CBS, being sold to Entercom
7. WAXQ-FM – 2,761,900 - iHeart
8. WQHT-FM – 2,666,100 - Emmis
9. WWPR-FM – 2,577,600 - iHeart
10. WPLJ-FM – 2,299,900 - Cumulus

iHeart (the #1 owner of radio stations in the country) alone owns half of the top 10 FMs in a single market—and Cumulus and Entercom own the #2 and #4 largest U.S. radio station portfolios, respectively.

If you add up the listenership figures you quoted (the "cume," which no one in the broadcasting business uses except in self-promotion), you get a number (33,274,900) which is higher than the New York metro population, which leads to the conclusion that there is substantial overlap in cumulative listenership, making this comparison meaningless.  Further, the value of a station comes not from its listenership, but from its revenue, EBITDA and other financial factors.  iHeart and Cumulus are both in serious financial trouble.  Both companies have been threatened over the last 18 months with delisting from the stock exchanges.  CBS, as you noted, is in the process of selling its radio division to Entercom, which would make Entercom the #2 owner of radio stations in the US...and neither CBS or Entercom are in any sort of financial trouble.

Lastly, you cited ownership in the New York metro, which is a meaningless comparison to the country as a whole, since the larger media companies have always concentrated their owned stations in the larger markets.  In fact, iHeart downsized considerably over the last decade, shedding stations almost exclusively in small markets.

(Radiated power is also meaningless as a comparison, because radiated power is subject to limits which have nothing to do with who owns the stations.)
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2017, 04:34:40 PM »

I worked for the StarRadio company in Kankakee, Illinois for 9 years.  I basically ran commercials for NASCAR, the sunday morning religious shows, and commercials for live events. When I left, I was making $9.00 / hr.  I only got the job because I went to college for broadcasting, and I felt I was wasting what little education I had.

When I started there, the station's motto was "LIVE AND LOCAL."  With the exception of the morning and drive slots,the rest of the programming was dayparted from a corporation out of Omaha.  Interesting that the company that was doing the dayparting had a slogan of "LIVE AND LOCAL." One time a local Kankakee area tornado warning was broadcast from Omaha.

Eventually, thy got away from that, but they had five or six on-air people (two who were the morning show hosts,) and they did all the dayparting in house.  And some sales. And some maintenance. (I believe there also was one newsman, one local sports reporter, one full time union radio engineer, and a receptionist as well)  And this was divided between the three stations that were housed in the same small facility. Literally the studios for the three different stations were right next to each other.

I tried applying for work with the radio station in the town I live in now.  Again, most of the stuff, save news, isn't local.  Small town radio is basically not thriving.

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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2017, 01:01:29 AM »

What about Sirius-XM?

Not a significant factor.

As of Q2/2017, SiriusXM has about 32 million subscribers, spread out over about 175 radio channels and at least that many online channels.  About 35 million listeners use satellite radio over a typical seven-day period.  The top-rated all-news station in New York, WINS, reaches that many people every 36 hours.

Radio listening in cars is 66% of the total audience.  Satellite radio is at 10% in cars, which is where most satellite radios are.

SiriusXM makes enough from subscriptions to be profitable, but their figures aren't growing that fast to make them a significant factor.

FWIW, those who use Dish Network satellite service, also get many of the XM/Sirius stations. That should add...a million subscribers?
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2017, 09:59:13 PM »

What about Sirius-XM?

Not a significant factor.

As of Q2/2017, SiriusXM has about 32 million subscribers, spread out over about 175 radio channels and at least that many online channels.  About 35 million listeners use satellite radio over a typical seven-day period.  The top-rated all-news station in New York, WINS, reaches that many people every 36 hours.

Radio listening in cars is 66% of the total audience.  Satellite radio is at 10% in cars, which is where most satellite radios are.

SiriusXM makes enough from subscriptions to be profitable, but their figures aren't growing that fast to make them a significant factor.

FWIW, those who use Dish Network satellite service, also get many of the XM/Sirius stations. That should add...a million subscribers?

The figures I found and quoted include listeners from Dish Network subscriptions.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2017, 11:46:25 PM »

As long as the dominant print media outlets in the United States retain their liberal slant, radio will remain viable because that's where the conservative alternative is.

True indeed.  Radio AM and FM is also a good source of Christian programming such as preaching and teaching and music and politics from that perspective.  The Bible Broadcasting Network (BBN) and American Family Radio (AFR) are two of the most prominent networks.
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Re: Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2017, 05:31:52 PM »

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/120766/entercom-divestiture-notes/

Here is an update on the Entercom/CBS Radio deal.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/entercom-cbs-radio-justice-department-1202604449/

And yes Entercom had to divest 13 stations specifically in places like Sacramento, San Francisco, Boston and Seattle to get the deal approved.

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/cbs-news-radio-unveils-new-shows-at-first-upfront-presentation/346640

Also CBS News Radio the network is moving from Westwood one to Skyview on January 1st, 2018. Note its uncertain if Entercom stations will sign a deal with the new CBS News Radio though.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 05:37:00 PM by bing101 »
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