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Author Topic: Two Lane Roads That Need Four  (Read 6064 times)

webny99

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2018, 11:02:24 AM »

Since we now have a thread about four lane roads that are too wide, I figured I might as well revive my thread about the reverse, just to remind everyone that it exists ;)

I decided to compile a list for this thread using NYS Traffic Data Viewer as a guide. Any state and US highways in orange (volumes over 10K) could be included in a potential widening program, in addition to several other corridors with high volumes of trucks and long distance traffic. Below is a list by county, starting in Western New York and working east. I excluded county routes and local streets, since they are generally handled by the local jurisdiction and not the state.

Niagara County
NY 31 from I-190 to Middleport

Erie County
US 62 from Hamburg to Eden
NY 16 from NY 400 to Yorkshire
NY 78 from French Rd to NY 263
NY 425 from North Tonawanda to NY 31
NY 5 from Harris Hill to Akron

Cattaraugus County
NY 417 from Olean to Portville

Steuben County
NY 36 from I-390 to I-86

Chemung County
NY 14 from Watkins Glen to Elmira

Livingston County
US 20A from Geneseo to Livonia
US 20/NY 5 from Avon to Lima

Monroe County
NY 104 from NY 19 to NY 386
NY 404 from Gravel Rd to NY 250
NY 286 from Qualtrough Rd to NY 250
NY 441 from Watson Rd to County Line
NY 65 from NY 31 to Calkins Rd
NY 31 from French Rd to I-490
NY 31 from Turk Hill Rd to Wayne County Line
NY 250 (entire length)

Ontario County
US 20/NY 5 from Canandaigua to Geneva
NY 96 from I-490 to NY 332

Wayne County
NY 104 from Williamson to Wolcott
NY 31 from Monroe County Line to Lyons

Seneca County
US 20/NY 5 from Geneva to Waterloo

Cayuga County
US 20/NY 5 from NY 318 to Auburn
US 20 from Auburn to Skaneateles
NY 5 from Auburn to Onandaga County Line

Oswego County
NY 481 from Fulton to Oswego

Onandaga County
NY 5 from Cayuga County Line to Camillus
NY 31 from Baldwinsville to Cicero (whatever isn't already)
NY 92 from NY 5 to Cazenovia
NY 5 from Fayetteville to Madison County Line
NY 173 (entire length)

Madison County
NY 5 from Onandaga County Line to Vernon

Jefferson County
US 11 from I-781 to St Lawrence County Line

St Lawrence County
US 11 from Jefferson County Line to Potsdam

Saratoga County
NY 67 from Amsterdam to Ballston Spa
NY 50 from Scotia to Saratoga Springs



Corridors To Be Considered For A Full Freeway
US 20A from East Aurora to I-390
US 219 from Springville to Salamanca
NY 31 from Adams Basin to Orleans County Line
NY 13 from Ithaca to Cortland


As you can see, a four-laning program is definitely in order!
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vdeane

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #76 on: December 26, 2018, 06:07:48 PM »

Meanwhile, NYSDOT uses 15k as the threshold to consider a road diet.
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webny99

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #77 on: December 26, 2018, 09:39:12 PM »

 :-D

Granted, an acceptable LOS for downtown Buffalo isn't really acceptable on a 55mph super-two in the middle of nowhere.

Aside from New England, Upstate NY is among the only places in the nation where four-lane divided non-freeways are basically non-existent. It's excusable in the mountainous regions of Vermont and New Hampshire. Not so much in the flat farmland of Wayne County and the like.
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TheOneKEA

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2018, 08:22:33 AM »

There are several of these in Maryland:

MD 32 between Clarksville and I-70, and between I-70 and Eldersburg
US 15 between the Potomac River and US 340
US 1 Bel Air Bypass, between Winters Run and the southern end of the Hickory Bypass
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Beltway

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #79 on: December 27, 2018, 08:43:49 AM »

There are several of these in Maryland:
MD 32 between Clarksville and I-70, and between I-70 and Eldersburg
US 15 between the Potomac River and US 340
US 1 Bel Air Bypass, between Winters Run and the southern end of the Hickory Bypass

US-340 on its 2-lane portions in MD, VA and WV, north of VA-7.
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mgk920

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2018, 11:03:14 AM »

Speaking of Wisconsin what's the traffic count on US 2 coming from the Michigan state line?   Sure seemed like US 2 ought to be four lanes west of US 51.

I don't have the numbers, but traffic on US 2 west from Iron Mountain, MI through Florence, WI is fairly light and its two lanes are fine.

Others in Wisconsin:
- WI 15 (entire route that is not already four lanes)
- WI 21 westward to and around Omro, WI
- US 10 between Appleton and Manitowoc (use new ROW routing from WI 441 at College Ave in Appleton via Outagamie County 'CE' to Forest Junction)
- US 45 between US 10 and Clintonville
- WI 47 from Outagamie County 'JJ' northward to at least Black Creek (install roundabout at Outagamie County 'A' (south) intersection).
- WI 76 from Outagamie County 'JJ' southward to at least Winnebago County 'JJ'.
- WI 96 between ATW airport and WI 76
- US 141 from WI 64 northward to at least Crivitz
- WI 172 west of GRB airport and WI 54 from WI 172 westward to at least Seymour (include new-ROW bypass of Oneida)
- WI 26 between WI 16/60 and US 151 (use new ROW routing)
- Outagamie and Winnebago County 'CB' south of ATW airport.
- Outagamie County 'JJ' across Appleton's north side

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2018, 11:39:43 AM »

Portions of the U.S. 1 Bel Air Bypass in Maryland.
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JCinSummerfield

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #82 on: December 27, 2018, 12:17:48 PM »

In Monroe County, Michigan, US-24 between Mall Road and M-125 needs to be 4 lanes.  Might as well say US-24 south of Monroe to Smith Road just north of the state line also.
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LM117

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #83 on: December 27, 2018, 01:09:57 PM »

NC-86 between Danville and Hillsborough. Hands down. I commute that road often and I always encounter a good deal of truck traffic, in addition to regular traffic. Between the truck traffic and the cars road raging and riding your ass if you aren't doing 70+mph on a 55mph highway, NC-86 can be a pretty scary ride. I've seen people try to pass 3 or 4 cars/trucks at once and narrowly avoid getting creamed head-on. I dread the days that I have to drive on NC-86. I go to Durham and eastern NC often and I don't have any other better alternative route.

Scratch that. Iíve been taking NC-86 to US-158 in Yanceyville, cutting across to Roxboro, and dropping down US-501 to Durham. Itís a bit more mileage, but much less stressful.

But it still doesnít change the fact that NC-86 needs widening, though.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #84 on: December 27, 2018, 01:23:01 PM »

Locally:
1. US 8
2. TH 8
3. Constitutional Route 46
4. Federal Route No. 8

Others:
MN 95 from Princeton to North Branch
MN 23 from Milaca to Mora
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froggie

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2018, 05:00:10 PM »

Quote from: webny99
Any state and US highways in orange (volumes over 10K) could be included in a potential widening program, in addition to several other corridors with high volumes of trucks and long distance traffic.

In the past, MnDOT has used a volume of 11,200 as a planning-level threshold for rural widening.  10K is close enough from a planning perspective.

Quote from: vdeane
Meanwhile, NYSDOT uses 15k as the threshold to consider a road diet.

For urban streets.  Big difference between rural and urban.  Most urban streets can handle 15K fairly adequately.  Depending on quantity of traffic signals, turning traffic, and private access points, you can even get up to 20K on some streets.

Quote from: Beltway
US-340 on its 2-lane portions in MD, VA and WV, north of VA-7.

North of Charles Town could really be a freeway, IMO.  Volumes would support one.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394
1. US 8
2. TH 8
3. Constitutional Route 46
4. Federal Route No. 8

Concur out to Center City.  Volumes drop off noticeably beyond CSAH 9.  Out to Taylors Falls would be a "nice to have", but the main priority is west of Center City.

Quote
MN 95 from Princeton to North Branch

Borderline.  There are other corridors with higher demand that you didn't mention.  Like 55 out to Buffalo (even out to Maple Lake has more traffic than 95).

Quote
MN 23 from Milaca to Mora

You could make a stronger argument for MN 65 up to Mora...but neither route to Mora has more than about 6,200 AADT (considering 65 north of 107 here).  Heck, even 15 from Kimball to 94 has more traffic than 23 into Mora.

------------------

Using webny99's criteria of 10K AADT, here's the list of Minnesota rural (or mostly rural) roadways that either fully or substantially meet that criteria that are still 2 lanes (listed by route type then numerically):

- US 8 Forest Lake to Center City
- US 10 Cottage Grove to Hudson, WI
- US 12 Howard Lake to Wayzata
- US 61 White Bear Lake to Forest Lake
- US 169 Onamia to Vineland (basically the Mille Lacs reservation)
- US 212 Norwood Young America to Chaska

- MN 5 Waconia to Chanhassen
- MN 7 St. Bonifacius to Excelsior
- MN 19 I-35 to Northfield
- MN 24 Clearwater to Clear Lake
- MN 25 Buffalo to Monticello
- MN 55 Maple Lake to Medina
- MN 55 Rosemount to Hastings
- MN 65 Cambridge to MN 107
- MN 95 from I-94 to Stillwater
- MN 97 through Forest Lake
- MN 210 Brainerd to Crosby (really CSAH 12)

- Anoka CSAH 9 north of Andover
- Sherburne CSAH 11 south of US 10
- Anoka CSAH 14
- Washington CSAH 15 south of MN 96
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 05:08:28 PM by froggie »
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texaskdog

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2018, 05:53:40 PM »

Grand Loop Road in Yellowstone
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froggie

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #87 on: December 27, 2018, 05:55:19 PM »

Since webny99 mentioned Vermont and New Hampshire upthread, I ran the numbers for both.  Though Vermont is lightly populated and has the mountainous terrain to boot, there are a handful of corridors that meet or come close to the 10K threshold:

- US 2 from the Lake Champlain Causeway to I-89
- US 4 from Rutland to Killington
- US 7 from Vergennes to South Burlington
- US 7 from Colchester to Milton

- VT 2A from US 2/7 to VT 289
- VT 15 from Essex to Jericho
- VT 15 from Hyde Park to Morrisville
- VT 100 from Woodbury to Stowe (busiest rural 2-lane road in the state)

-----------------------

New Hampshire has a few more, having 3 times the population of Vermont:

- US 1
- US 3 Manchester to Concord
- US 3/NH 11 concurrency from Franklin to the Laconia Bypass
- US 4 Lebanon (I-89) to Enfield
- US 4 Pembroke (end of I-393) to Dover (NH 16)
- US 202/NH 9 concurrency from Hillsborough to I-89
- US 302/NH 16 concurrency north of North Conway

- NH 9 Brattleboro, Vt to Keene
- NH 11/NH 103 concurrency from Claremont to Newport
- NH 11 New Durham to Rochester
- NH 12/NH 103 concurrency in Claremont
- NH 12 in Swanzey
- NH 16 Rochester to Wakefield (NH 153)
- NH 16 in Ossipee
- NH 25/NH 3A concurrency in Plymouth (much of this segment has become commercialized in recent years)
- NH 25 Meredith (US 3) to Moultonborough (NH 109)
- NH 28 Epsom (US 4) to Barnstead (NH 126)
- NH 33 Stratham to Portsmouth
- NH 38
- NH 101 Keene to Marlborough
- NH 101 Wilton to Bedford (NH 114), including Milford Bypass
- NH 102 Hudson to Derry
- NH 104 New Hampton (I-93) to Meredith (US 3)
- NH 106 Concord to Loudon
- NH 106 Belmont (NH 140) to Laconia
- NH 108 Exeter to Rochester
- NH 111 Hudson to Hampstead (NH 121A)
- NH 114 Goffstown to Bedford (NH 101)
- NH 125 Haverhill, MA to Rochester
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froggie

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #88 on: December 27, 2018, 06:19:47 PM »

Grand Loop Road in Yellowstone

Funny you mention it...NPS completed a Yellowstone Transportation and Vehicle Mobility Study last year.  They mention that visitation to Yellowstone has jumped up 40% just since 2008, and they predict all roads in the park will encounter recurring congestion in the next 5 years.

Using webny99's criteria, the western part of Grand Loop Rd ("US 89") from Old Faithful to Norris comes close to meeting the threshold and West Entrance Rd ("US 20") actually exceeds the threshold.

The study also did detailed LOS calculations (which for 2-lane roads is based on "percent time following" behind a vehicle).  West Entrance Rd, Grand Loop Rd from West Thumb to Norris, Norris Canyon Rd, and Grand Loop Rd from Canyon Village to Lake were all LOS D, with the Madison Junction (Grand Loop/West Entrance) and Canyon Junction (Grand Loop/Norris Canyon at Canyon Village) intersections operating at LOS E.

The only road-related recommendation from the study besides more detailed study and ITS solutions is converting Tower Junction (Grand Loop Rd at Northeast Entrance Rd) to an all-way stop.

From a purely traffic perspective, one could make an argument for widening West Entrance Rd to 4 lanes and building an interchange at Madison Junction.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:23:59 PM by froggie »
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Finrod

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #89 on: December 27, 2018, 07:26:12 PM »

I remember US 231 between Crawfordsville and Lafayette being 2 lanes and in need of more.  Heck, I'd make it part of an eastern extension of I-72, using SR 25 and US 24 past Lafayette through to Toledo.
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #90 on: December 27, 2018, 08:51:57 PM »

NORTH CAROLINA has had the goal of bringing a modern, 4-lane, divided highway to within 10 miles of 96% of its population (one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

It is slowly building towards that goal. About 7-10 new interstate designations have been awarded for upgraded highways and NC is always constructing 4-lane bypasses around small but congested towns.

US401 is being widened to 4-lanes right now in my native Franklin County just North of Raleigh. (Wait was 40 years though)
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #91 on: December 27, 2018, 10:29:38 PM »

(one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

How is Pennsylvania more evenly dispersed than Iowa, Mississippi, or Alabama? (North Carolina is definitely one of the top, but I'm questioning Pennsylvania.)
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #92 on: December 27, 2018, 11:29:25 PM »

Quote
What's the general AADT for four-laning a road?

MnDOT uses (or at least used to use) a planning level estimate of 11,200.  That said, I've seen the value range anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 and several numbers in between.

Getting more technical, the main Highway Capacity Manual measurement for capacity on a 2-lane roadway ("time spent following") does not lend itself well to a general AADT threshold.

To my way of thinking, if there are more than 1800 vehicles in the peak hour in that direction, it needs widening. More than 1800 vehicles in the peak hour and drivers can't keep 2 seconds of following distance. Now, you can get to that 1800 vehicles in the peak hour in each direction with at little as 3600 AADT, if the section of road is used all and only during a commute hour in each direction. It would be far more realistic to assume that a road gets used far more than just in the peak hour in each direction. Probably something closer to 20K would cause the trouble, but it is going to seriously vary with the traffic pattern of the road. A road that runs constant 24x7 in both directions could theoretically handle 86.4K AADT. If I am not mistaken, I-405 has a section that is 5 lanes in each directions and runs close to the theoretical 432K limit. But, that is asking a lot!
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2018, 11:40:04 AM »

20K on a rural, 55mph+ two-lane road is just wild. There aren't many examples, but NY 31 from the NY 531 freeway to NY 260 qualifies, and driving it at peak hour is incredible to experience.
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2018, 08:49:07 PM »

^ Until they upped the speed limit, the Long Lake (MN) bypass on US 12 fit that bill.  But that road's a Super-2 that can better handle such volumes.

The first leg of US 8 northeast of Forest Lake, MN also fits the bill.  It's a steady stream of constant traffic in the peak direction that usually flows until you approach a signal.
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #95 on: December 29, 2018, 11:59:20 PM »

(one of the most evenly dispersed in the US- 2nd only to Pennsylvania) for over 40 years.

How is Pennsylvania more evenly dispersed than Iowa, Mississippi, or Alabama? (North Carolina is definitely one of the top, but I'm questioning Pennsylvania.)

Well I know Penn. supposedly has the highest rural population of all states, and NC is right up there too, the state's 3 biggest metros only account for around 6million of the 10.5 million residents.


Looking at a map of Pennsylvania, it looks at if every nook and cranny is settled, similar to NC.


Perhaps I phrased it wrong.


Maybe NC and Penn. have the largest rural populations, and they have to be very venly dispersed for so many people to be classified as rural.

Anyway, with NC's countless small towns in all 100 counties, having a 4-lane divided highway within 10 miles of everyone (96%)to use, is a lofty goal that they are making progress towards.
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2018, 12:40:29 PM »

Ran numbers for Alabama.  There aren't a whole lot because Alabama has undergone a number of 4-lane widening projects, including two that were Appalachian Regional Corridors (and are now finished, Birmingham Northern Beltline notwithstanding).  But there are a few high-traffic 2 lane corridors that are rural or somewhat rural:

- US 31 from Spanish Fort (US 90) to AL 59
- US 80 from Crawford (AL 169) to Phenix City
- US 98 from the Mississippi line to Semmes (under construction to connect directly to AL 158)
- US 98 from Foley (AL 59) east to the Florida line
- US 231 from Avondale Lake (south of Pell City) to Pell City
- US 411 from Leeds (I-20) to Odenville (AL 174)

- AL 14 from Millbrook (AL 143) to Wetumpka (US 231)
- AL 104 from Fairhope (US 98) to Robertsdale (AL 59)
- AL 119 from Montevallo to Alabaster
- AL 165 from Fort Mitchell (back side of Fort Benning, GA) to Phenix City (US 431)
- Bynum-Leatherwood Rd/Calhoun CR 109 from AL 202 to US 431 (kind of an outer western Anniston loop)
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2018, 05:31:12 AM »

OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras).

EDIT: US 26 from Mt. Hood to Madras (coast just increased passing lanes).
US 101 Seaside to Astoria.

OR 18... And OR 99W east of OR 18 to Dundee. US 97 (Weed to at least Madras)

US-26 all the way from the coast to Madras should be at least four.

Even if you could PBOT to widen Powell from 95th to 174th, you'd have to also convince Gresham to do the same from 174th to 212th (and probably get Metro to sign off on it as well). It'd be easier to reroute 26 along Division between 95th and Burnside and tell PBOT where to stick it with their 30 mph limit on outer Division.

That said, US/ORH 26 does need to be widened between Rhododendron and OR 35. Along ORH 53, piecemealing it with longer/more frequent passing lanes would work; same along ORH 47 west of Tillamook Junction.

OR 18: Definite candidate for a full widening. I'll argue that OR 99W between Dundee and 18/233 doesn't need it as it'll eventually be bypassed by the Newberg-Dundee Bypass extension (which will be dualed as part of its final phase).

US 101 from OR 202 to US 26: Concur.

OR 99E from Salem to Oregon City.

OR 551, full length.

US 97, Klamath Falls to OR 58, Redmond to Madras, at minimum. Weed to Madras ideal.

OR 22, Valley Junction to Rickreall, Stayton/Sublimity to Santiam Junction.

US 20, Santiam Junction to Bend.

US 199, whole length.

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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2018, 09:38:29 AM »

US-20 from MA 12 in Auburn to I-90/MA 146 in Millbury
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Re: Two Lane Roads That Need Four
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2018, 10:17:45 AM »

DE-9 directly connects Wilmington to the beaches, but is a two-lane rural road for almost its entire length.  Upgrading it to a highway south of Newcastle would definitely help take some strain off US-13, which can get clogged with shunpikers at certain times of the day.
In my experience of driving that road on weekends, I've never seen enough traffic on DE-9 to justify four-laning it (there are portions with fewer than 1000 vehicles per day).  Also, the geography there would make it difficult to construct a four lane road, I would imagine.  Also there's an existing truck restriction on that road (not sure exactly where it begins but I would imagine at least as far north as Delaware City), I'm sure those who live along DE-9 would prefer not to have high traffic on their road.

Has anybody mentioned US-6 between Bolton CT and Willimantic CT?  I drove that road plenty of times when I was in undergrad and it would have been nice to have at least some passing zones.  Sometimes those 11 miles felt like they went on forever...
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Instagram | Why I don't use GPS

 


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