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Author Topic: DST (2018)  (Read 43466 times)

02 Park Ave

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DST (2018)
« on: February 08, 2018, 07:03:10 PM »

It may be a month or so early to start this thread but there is good news out of Brussels.

The EU is starting a study to determine whether DST should be continued.  There is a groundswell forming in northern European countries to end DST.  So the study will determine if any "benefits" of DST are worth its inconvenience and risks to health and safety.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 07:09:40 PM »

You seem to be anti-DST, but you don't give a reason. Can you explain? (I don't have an opinion either way.)
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 07:15:25 PM »

It starts here on March 11th. I feel it should go back to the schedule of early April/later October like it was until 2006. One other change I would make? Put Indianapolis on central time.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 10:28:08 PM »

The second Sunday in March is too early, although I’ll acknowledge the practical benefit of the time change never falling on Easter Sunday (under the prior system, this year the clocks would have gone ahead on Easter). The older system prior to the mid-1980s  where they went ahead on the last Sunday in April was too late to start it.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 10:35:09 PM »

I think we should end DST, moving the DST times forwards by half an hour, and non-DST times backwards by half an hour.
No time change, and it works out nicely to split the difference, giving us a bit more daylight on winter evenings and summer mornings.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 11:25:55 PM »

I think we should end DST, moving the DST times forwards by half an hour, and non-DST times backwards by half an hour.
No time change, and it works out nicely to split the difference, giving us a bit more daylight on winter evenings and summer mornings.

I've been promoting that very thought for years. With the exception that there has to be 100% compliance...no time zone "islands".
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 12:34:58 AM »

Oh man, the tenth biannual AARoads DST discussion!
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 12:48:46 AM »

Oh man, the tenth biannual AARoads DST discussion!

You should hear the Utah Legislature. Every single year there is a proposal to eliminate it, and every year it gets shot down in committee.

I’m all for DST myself, but it begins too early in the year and ends too late, IMO.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 03:36:22 AM »

I think we should end DST, moving the DST times forwards by half an hour, and non-DST times backwards by half an hour.
No time change, and it works out nicely to split the difference, giving us a bit more daylight on winter evenings and summer mornings.

I've been promoting that very thought for years. With the exception that there has to be 100% compliance...no time zone "islands".

I must be understanding this incorrectly.

Wouldn't moving the non-DST times back by half an hour permanently make it so, for example, the west coast was always GMT-07:30? That seems rather messy.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 03:48:51 AM »

The cost-benefit ratio for jumping back and fourth one hour each year isn't there. The energy saving is miniscule, there is an increase in accidents around the time switch, etc, etc
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 08:36:06 AM »

It may be a month or so early to start this thread but there is good news out of Brussels.

The EU is starting a study to determine whether DST should be continued.  There is a groundswell forming in northern European countries to end DST.  So the study will determine if any "benefits" of DST are worth its inconvenience and risks to health and safety.

Yup, they are questioning the use of DST (which in Europe runs from late March to late October, sightly shorter than in the USA, it used to be the other way round). Anyway I believe Spain should move out of permanent DST, I always think elsewhere the sun sets too early when actually it sets too late here. But this should be accompanied by all schedules moving forward one hour, as we adapted them to our f*cked up time zone.

Anyway, I decided to spicy up my forum time, so I moved out of Eastern and sync with Big Rig Steve, so I'll be anywhere from Eastern to Pacific now. However I retain Euro DST instead of switching to American one, thus for most of March my forum time will be one hour behind his local time, so if he goes to the West Coast I'll be setting my time to Alaska :sombrero:.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 08:42:39 AM »

I think we should end DST, moving the DST times forwards by half an hour, and non-DST times backwards by half an hour.
No time change, and it works out nicely to split the difference, giving us a bit more daylight on winter evenings and summer mornings.

I've been promoting that very thought for years. With the exception that there has to be 100% compliance...no time zone "islands".

I must be understanding this incorrectly.

Wouldn't moving the non-DST times back by half an hour permanently make it so, for example, the west coast was always GMT-07:30? That seems rather messy.

Yes, but if it applied around the globe, GMT -07:30 would actually become GMT -08:00. Even if it didn't, I don't see a problem with a permanent -07:30. It's not like there's a frequent need to relate local time to an arbitrary base time.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 08:44:14 AM »

1) DST lasts too long.  End of March to end of September is fine.

2) DST is really bad in areas that are already one time zone farther east than they belong.  A lot of areas are already 45+ minutes ahead of their natural time and adding another hour really distorts the day.  Those areas really need to either ditch DST or move to the correct time zone.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 08:53:46 AM »

1) DST lasts too long.  End of March to end of September is fine.
In March and October, I'd much rather the sunlight in the evening than the morning.

Quote
2) DST is really bad in areas that are already one time zone farther east than they belong.  A lot of areas are already 45+ minutes ahead of their natural time and adding another hour really distorts the day.  Those areas really need to either ditch DST or move to the correct time zone.
Indiana is without a doubt the most controversial state in the US when it comes to this. If they go back to CST, the sun would set at like 4 pm or earlier in the winter. Staying on EST, the sun doesn't set until close to 10 pm in the summer. There's no win-win situation for Indiana that I can think of.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 08:58:55 AM »

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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 09:31:47 AM »

I just want more light when I get home from work so I can ride my bicycle safely.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 11:10:33 AM »

I'm not opposed to staying on the same time the entire year, but speaking for a country on a latitude like Netherlands and Germany, moving permanently into summer time would be more beneficial than staying in winter time all year. The longer daylight in the evening allows for many outdoor activities after dinner.

School vacations also do not coincide with the summer solstice, but are later in summer, from mid-July to late August or early September. That means that by late August, the sun would set around 7:30 p.m. if on winter time the entire year, which would be really detrimental for events and other outdoor activities associated with the warm summer evenings.

I think it would also seriously impact late summer vacations in September if it would be dark by 7 p.m. Many people who do not have school-aged children go on vacation in the late summer / low season in the first half of September. I usually go on vacation during that time and the early darkness and chilly temperatures after sunset are already inhibiting activities in the evening, not to mention if it would be shortened by another hour.

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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 11:27:59 AM »

1) DST lasts too long.  End of March to end of September is fine.
In March and October, I'd much rather the sunlight in the evening than the morning.

Quote
2) DST is really bad in areas that are already one time zone farther east than they belong.  A lot of areas are already 45+ minutes ahead of their natural time and adding another hour really distorts the day.  Those areas really need to either ditch DST or move to the correct time zone.
Indiana is without a doubt the most controversial state in the US when it comes to this. If they go back to CST, the sun would set at like 4 pm or earlier in the winter. Staying on EST, the sun doesn't set until close to 10 pm in the summer. There's no win-win situation for Indiana that I can think of.

So split the state in half like Tennessee; the western half goes on CT and the eastern half goes on ET.  Or bring back the little cutout in Northwest IN that was CT.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 12:47:32 PM »

Another stupid European idea.

I myself am glad that DST starts earlier, but really wish it would be extended year-round. It really stinks to leave work and it be dark. I prefer my daylight in the evenings, thank you very much.
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 12:50:57 PM »

1) DST lasts too long.  End of March to end of September is fine.
In March and October, I'd much rather the sunlight in the evening than the morning.

Quote
2) DST is really bad in areas that are already one time zone farther east than they belong.  A lot of areas are already 45+ minutes ahead of their natural time and adding another hour really distorts the day.  Those areas really need to either ditch DST or move to the correct time zone.
Indiana is without a doubt the most controversial state in the US when it comes to this. If they go back to CST, the sun would set at like 4 pm or earlier in the winter. Staying on EST, the sun doesn't set until close to 10 pm in the summer. There's no win-win situation for Indiana that I can think of.

Well, there is EST with no DST, that avoids both the 4pm sunsets in the winter and the 10pm sunsets in the summer. 

However, I lived in the EST part of Indiana for most of my life and just moved to the CST part, and I like it much better.  I don't mind the early winter sunsets, and I like that the sunrise isn't so ridiculously late.  I also really like TV shows starting an hour earlier. 
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2018, 12:51:57 PM »

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Central Time?
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 12:58:14 PM »

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Central Time?

You mean Normal Time?
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2018, 12:58:56 PM »

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Central Time?
Yes, and Eastern is even worse! and I don't even want to mention pacific...
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2018, 01:04:17 PM »

1) DST lasts too long.  End of March to end of September is fine.
In March and October, I'd much rather the sunlight in the evening than the morning.

Quote
2) DST is really bad in areas that are already one time zone farther east than they belong.  A lot of areas are already 45+ minutes ahead of their natural time and adding another hour really distorts the day.  Those areas really need to either ditch DST or move to the correct time zone.
Indiana is without a doubt the most controversial state in the US when it comes to this. If they go back to CST, the sun would set at like 4 pm or earlier in the winter. Staying on EST, the sun doesn't set until close to 10 pm in the summer. There's no win-win situation for Indiana that I can think of.
I live in the Central Time Zone part of Indiana (SW).  I used to think that they were crazy trying to go to eastern time, but the older I get, the more I like to have the sun set later.  I was glad to see the DST extended to early Nov and early March.  I despise the sun setting at 4:30 in December.  Don't mind getting up and starting work in the dark, but I had finishing it in the dark.  Also appear to have that light sensitivity that I get grumpy when with lesser sunlight.  (Perhaps I need to move further south)
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Re: DST (2018)
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2018, 01:23:22 PM »

Yes, but if it applied around the globe, GMT -07:30 would actually become GMT -08:00. Even if it didn't, I don't see a problem with a permanent -07:30. It's not like there's a frequent need to relate local time to an arbitrary base time.

My day job very, very strongly disagrees with you on that. Converting database and server log timestamps from UTC to Eastern (for me) and Central (for my boss) is messy enough already without throwing a half-hour offset in there.

Anyway, I'd support pushing the beginning of DST back to around the time it used to be. Currently, when DST kicks in, it's already reaching the point where it's light until about 7pm anyway here. Making it light until 8pm is nice, sure, but is outweighed by shifting sunrise back to almost 8am and making it hell to wake up in the morning.
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