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Author Topic: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?  (Read 3155 times)

myosh_tino

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2018, 01:56:54 PM »

At least the 101 approach to 87 has secondary signage for both downtown and the airport -- although the BGS at the exit reads "CA 87/Guadalupe Parkway", the same basic signage deployed in 1987 when that section of the route was an at-grade expressway (and the first field signage for CA 87) -- it might be better if the downtown/airport reference was included on that sign rather than off to the side of US 101.   

That particular exit sign was replaced this past year and now reads "87 SOUTH" with no control point or road name but does include an airport symbol...



I would rather lose the airport symbol and have a conventional control point...

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TheStranger

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2018, 03:06:27 PM »



85 and 87, the newer generation of freeways in the San Jose area, do have odd control city choices.  While Mtn View and Gilroy are definitely accurate for 85, it is odd since most bypasses (nationally) have long distance controls.  So at the southern 101/85 jct, I'd expect 101 to have a San Jose control and 85 to have a SF control, but since 101 has always had the SF control and 85 is a much newer highway they decided to give 85 the local control of Mtn View instead.

IIRC Route 85 south of I-280 has restrictions on heavy trucks and I surmise this is why it isn't signed southbound for US 101's long distance control in the South Bay (Los Angeles) or for San Francisco going northbound.



And how about the control for I-280 south between 87 and 101?  Sacramento?  Los Angeles?  This one is really tough since I-280 really turns east here, but is signed southbound.  Most of the lanes of course lead to 680 toward Sacramento, but the notion of 280 south to Sacramento is of course wrong since Sac is north of San Jose.  Those signs would just lead to confusion, so they probably are better off the way they are.

Southbound 280 past 87 really works as "TO 101/680" if anything IMO.
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Chris Sampang

sparker

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2018, 04:36:52 PM »

At least the 101 approach to 87 has secondary signage for both downtown and the airport -- although the BGS at the exit reads "CA 87/Guadalupe Parkway", the same basic signage deployed in 1987 when that section of the route was an at-grade expressway (and the first field signage for CA 87) -- it might be better if the downtown/airport reference was included on that sign rather than off to the side of US 101.   

That particular exit sign was replaced this past year and now reads "87 SOUTH" with no control point or road name but does include an airport symbol...



I would rather lose the airport symbol and have a conventional control point...



Just did my first full CA 87 north-to-south trip in a couple of months this morning (don't get north of 280 all that often) and noticed the all-caps "87 South" sign with the airport symbol.  Fully agree about the "Downtown San Jose" substitution being optimal; the airport notation (including symbol) could easily be located to the side just before the ramp (although it's plainly obvious that the airport's near -- the runway ends near the 101 De La Cruz exit just NW of the 87 interchange).
 
IIRC Route 85 south of I-280 has restrictions on heavy trucks and I surmise this is why it isn't signed southbound for US 101's long distance control in the South Bay (Los Angeles) or for San Francisco going northbound.

Great point -- while 85 looks like an alternative to US 101, the truck restriction (noted prominently at the south CA 87 terminus) makes it less than a universal routing option.  However the same doesn't apply to I-580 in Oakland; Stockton is cited as a control city as far back as the I-80/580/880 interchange.
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DTComposer

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2018, 04:44:01 PM »

85 and 87, the newer generation of freeways in the San Jose area, do have odd control city choices.  While Mtn View and Gilroy are definitely accurate for 85, it is odd since most bypasses (nationally) have long distance controls.  So at the southern 101/85 jct, I'd expect 101 to have a San Jose control and 85 to have a SF control, but since 101 has always had the SF control and 85 is a much newer highway they decided to give 85 the local control of Mtn View instead.
IIRC Route 85 south of I-280 has restrictions on heavy trucks and I surmise this is why it isn't signed southbound for US 101's long distance control in the South Bay (Los Angeles) or for San Francisco going northbound.

Correct about the truck restriction. However, the controls vary depending on the vintage of the highway and I'm wondering how dependent they are/were on the truck restriction. At the north terminus (i.e. the 1960s portion of the route), controls from US-101 southbound are Cupertino/Santa Cruz. This is reinforced on pull-through signage at the CA-82 junction (that said, from CA-237 west to CA-85 south the controls are Los Gatos/Santa Cruz).

Before CA-85 was completed south of I-280, signage for I-280 south directed drivers to San Jose/Santa Cruz (now the Santa Cruz has been greened out).

From I-280 south, the control is just Gilroy. Santa Cruz is dropped from pull-throughs and not mentioned again until CA-17 south.

So here's where I wonder about the truck restriction coming into play: If you're on I-280 south and you see CA-85 south/Gilroy, that's using CA-85 as a bypass to downtown San Jose, and wouldn't that therefore imply long-distance drivers (including trucks) should use it as such?

I would use more local controls throughout the route:

Heading south from US-101: Cupertino/Los Gatos
(Santa Cruz on supplemental signage. I chose this because Los Gatos is used as a destination on the traffic time VMS but is not mentioned on any other signage).
From I-280: Los Gatos/Santa Cruz
From CA-17: Gilroy

Heading north:
From US-101: Los Gatos/Mountain View
(Cupertino, Santa Cruz on supplemental signs)
From CA-17: Cupertino/Mountain View
From I-280: Mountain View
From CA-82/CA-237: To US-101/San Francisco
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sparker

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2018, 06:06:44 PM »

So here's where I wonder about the truck restriction coming into play: If you're on I-280 south and you see CA-85 south/Gilroy, that's using CA-85 as a bypass to downtown San Jose, and wouldn't that therefore imply long-distance drivers (including trucks) should use it as such?

IMO, signage from SB 280 would optimally read "South CA 85/Los Gatos/Gilroy" -- but with prominent secondary signage, preferably on the I-280 pull-through panel, stating "Gilroy Trucks Use I-280 to US 101" -- and repeat this message on at least two successive BGS assemblies (along with the existing truck-restriction notices for CA 85 south). 
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sparker

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Re: Sacramento - odd signs changed from Business 80 to 50 west/east?
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2018, 05:45:14 PM »

Just got back from a 1-day Sacramento business trip that took me north on CA 99 from Manteca to US 50; have a few observations re the things brought up in this thread:

Signage at the Oak Park interchange seems to be evolving to minimalist, particularly as regards US 50 west of the interchange.  The old button-copy sign on NB 99 referencing "TO I-5, CA 99, I-80 West" about a half-mile south of the exit ramp was still there -- but Caltrans crews were out and about and up on the sign gantry itself -- it's probably not long for this world.  Just prior to that sign was a newer reflective-copy sign stating "To North CA 99/Yuba City, Use Exit 298A" which refers to the ramp leading to US 50 westbound.  But once on the exit ramp, there's no more reference to a continuation of CA 99, simply US 50 West/San Francisco or US 50 East/South Lake Tahoe at the ramp split.  The only reference to anything besides US 50 within the interchange itself is the pull-through on WB 50; it states "West US 50 TO I-80/San Francisco"  It would seem to me wise to at least "walk" a driver wanting to continue along CA 99 through the Oak Park "maze" by including that reference on the ensuing signage (since expecting drivers to memorize the exit number -- particularly if it's the same number with an "A" or "B" suffix -- isn't a likely scenario).  Omitting I-5 and I-80 themselves from the approach sign isn't terribly egregious, as long as the continuation of CA 99 is clearly marked; if Oak Park is successfully negotiated, the signage for the two Interstates will appear soon enough on WB 50. 

There's a big, tall Biz 80 shield on east US 50 in West Sac just east of the Harbor Blvd. interchange (looks like the vertically elongated profile I-shields deployed statewide in the late '90's).   With the "simplification" rationale prevailing, I would have thought that would have been history by now. 

And, finally, I ended up shooting off a very pointed email to D3 this morning concerning the fact that bridges aren't lining up (vertically) very well with the adjacent carriageways; some of the vertical drops are at least several inches -- and ome rises/bumps are of similar height.  Particularly egregious are the ramps from US 50 EB to I-5 SB, coming off the Pioneer Bridge itself I encountered one bump and one drop in a row (the "bump" was particularly jarring in my relatively low Camry); it appears the  bridges had settled more than just a bit in relation to the berm atop which the ramp is seated.  This was the worst of the issues; the pavement on US 50 EB between Harbor Blvd. and the Pioneer Bridge was also quite rough, with a number of vertical mismatches (though not to the degree found on the I-5 ramp).  Just a warning to folks using US 50 EB through the area:  it's going to be a bumpy ride!

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