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Author Topic: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed  (Read 970 times)

cpzilliacus

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kalvado

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 11:42:19 AM »

No-paywall more local source:
https://mississippitoday.org/2018/04/11/more-mississippi-bridges-to-close-per-emergency-declaration/
Quote
According to Mississippi Office of State Aid Road Construction documents, there were 542 closed county and local bridges in the state as of Tuesday morning.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 12:17:08 PM »

No-paywall more local source:
https://mississippitoday.org/2018/04/11/more-mississippi-bridges-to-close-per-emergency-declaration/
Quote
According to Mississippi Office of State Aid Road Construction documents, there were 542 closed county and local bridges in the state as of Tuesday morning.

Thanks. 

Wonder if the nice people of Mississippi might be about to conclude that a large increase in the state motor fuel tax rate might be needed? 

Pennsylvania got by for decades (generally neglecting its bridges in the process) with a relatively low tax on fuels, but now has the highest rate for gasoline and Diesel fuel in the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C.   

A large chunk of the money coming in from the increased Pennsylvania tax rate is going for bridge repair and deck replacement or total replacement projects.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 12:20:16 PM by cpzilliacus »
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froggie

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 02:34:09 PM »

Here's the Governor's press release.

As best as I can tell, these are all local or county bridges that were closed under this decree.  No state bridges were affected from this.

Here's a list of the bridges.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 02:37:24 PM »

No-paywall more local source:
https://mississippitoday.org/2018/04/11/more-mississippi-bridges-to-close-per-emergency-declaration/
Quote
According to Mississippi Office of State Aid Road Construction documents, there were 542 closed county and local bridges in the state as of Tuesday morning.

Thanks. 

Wonder if the nice people of Mississippi might be about to conclude that a large increase in the state motor fuel tax rate might be needed? 

Pennsylvania got by for decades (generally neglecting its bridges in the process) with a relatively low tax on fuels, but now has the highest rate for gasoline and Diesel fuel in the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C.   

A large chunk of the money coming in from the increased Pennsylvania tax rate is going for bridge repair and deck replacement or total replacement projects.

And during the "lobbying period" right before Act 89 was passed which resulted in tax rate being raised, PennDOT downgraded the weight ratings, or closed several hundred bridges, which resulted in dozens of new PA "Truck Alternate" routes.

Many of the bridges are being rebuilt under a single PPP agreement.
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Rothman

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 03:26:02 PM »

Many bridges under a single PPP?  Sweetheart deal for some contractor.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 04:03:21 PM »

Many bridges under a single PPP?  Sweetheart deal for some contractor.

$899M - 558 bridges
parapidbridges.com
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kalvado

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 04:04:13 PM »

Many bridges under a single PPP?  Sweetheart deal for some contractor.
collecting tolls on many small bridges? Or how can PPP work otherwise?
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hbelkins

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 04:11:12 PM »

Two questions about this:

1.) Why would the governor have to order it? Does not the secretary of transportation (or whatever Mississippi's equivalent is) have the power to do so?

2.) What authority does the state have over non-state-maintained bridges? Or more precisely, under what authority can a state official order a local road or bridge to be closed?
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kalvado

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 04:14:02 PM »

Two questions about this:

1.) Why would the governor have to order it? Does not the secretary of transportation (or whatever Mississippi's equivalent is) have the power to do so?

2.) What authority does the state have over non-state-maintained bridges? Or more precisely, under what authority can a state official order a local road or bridge to be closed?
same answer for all the questions:
Quote
Gov. Phil Bryant declared a state of emergency
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froggie

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 10:48:40 PM »

Furthermore, the Office of State Aid, under which these bridges are inspected (and many of them funded), falls under the state DOT.  And related to HB's #2:  since that same office (again part of MDOT) is responsible for the FHWA Bridge Inspection and Inventory programs for local and county bridges in the state, FHWA can certainly take them to task, as was the case here.
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hbelkins

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2018, 10:50:37 AM »

KYTC inspects county bridges, and a large number of them are substandard -- probably structurally deficient -- but what typically happens here is a low weight limit, such as 3 tons, is posted. I'm sure there have been individual closures, but I can't ever remember a mass closure such as what happened in Mississippi.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 12:18:19 PM »

More from the Wall Street Journal article linked above:

Quote
Many of the bridges are in rural, less populated areas where the tax base cannot easily handle the cost of repairing older, deteriorating spans, say county officials.

Quote
Gary Franks, county administrator of Itawamba County, a rural county of about 24,000 people that was named in the order, said funding is always a problem in his county in the northeast part of the state, but the deterioration of older bridges has started to overwhelm local governments in recent years.

Quote
“We just can’t generate a lot of income to build those bridges,” said Mr. Franks, who has been county administrator since 1989. “It’s a common problem.”

Quote
Leake County, in the middle of the state, has two bridges on the list that will cost at most about $525,000 total to repair, said Joe Andy Helton, a Democratic county supervisor.

Quote
But the county doesn’t have the money for the fixes and the closures cause chaos with people having to reroute miles out of their way to travel, he said.
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Chris

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 12:40:20 PM »

collecting tolls on many small bridges? Or how can PPP work otherwise?

PPP does not necessarily means tolls. A common PPP financing structure in Europe are the "availability payments", which the government pays to the contractor. The contractor fronts the entire cost of replacement and then gets it paid back by the government via monthly installments, with "availability" being an incentive to deliver it quickly (earlier availability meaning earlier payments). There is usually a long-term maintenance concession involved which is a disincentive to deliver shoddy work.

This way a cash-strapped government does not have to front the entire cost of all those bridge replacements, but can pay it back over a longer period of time. A typical AP concession for a large freeway project is 20-30 years, though a bridge replacement could have a shorter concession period. In a concession, the government remains owner of the infrastructure, but replacement and maintenance over a set period of time is the responsibility of the contractor.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 01:11:27 PM by Chris »
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kalvado

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 12:43:28 PM »

collecting tolls on many small bridges? Or how can PPP work otherwise?

PPP does not necessarily means tolls. A common PPP financing structure in Europe are the "availability payments", which the government pays to the contractor. The contractor fronts the entire cost of replacement and then gets it paid back by the government via monthly installments, with "availability" being an incentive to deliver it quickly (earlier availability meaning earlier payments). There is usually a long-term maintenance concession involved which is a disincentive to deliver shoddy work.

This way a cash-strapped government does not to front the entire cost of all those bridge replacements, but can pay it back over a longer period of time. A typical AP concession for a large freeway project is 20-30 years, though a bridge replacement could have a shorter concession period. In a concession, the government remains owner of the infrastructure, but replacement and maintenance over a set period of time is the responsibility of the contractor.
Is there significant financial difference between such PPP and issuing 20-year bonds? 20 years of payment in both cases...
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hbelkins

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 01:16:48 PM »

Kentucky's highway plan has gone from a lot of new construction to a lot of pavement rehabs and a lot of bridge replacements, especially on county bridges. Does Mississippi not fund local highway work the way Kentucky does?
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Rothman

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Re: Mississippi Gov. Bryant Orders More Than 100 Bridges Closed
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 01:37:43 PM »

collecting tolls on many small bridges? Or how can PPP work otherwise?

PPP does not necessarily means tolls. A common PPP financing structure in Europe are the "availability payments", which the government pays to the contractor. The contractor fronts the entire cost of replacement and then gets it paid back by the government via monthly installments, with "availability" being an incentive to deliver it quickly (earlier availability meaning earlier payments). There is usually a long-term maintenance concession involved which is a disincentive to deliver shoddy work.

This way a cash-strapped government does not have to front the entire cost of all those bridge replacements, but can pay it back over a longer period of time. A typical AP concession for a large freeway project is 20-30 years, though a bridge replacement could have a shorter concession period. In a concession, the government remains owner of the infrastructure, but replacement and maintenance over a set period of time is the responsibility of the contractor.
Like I said, a real big sweetheart deal for one contractor.  Definitely ensures a cash flow for them for years.
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