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Author Topic: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven  (Read 7250 times)

DJ Particle

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #175 on: January 11, 2019, 02:39:12 AM »

US-14 in Albert Lea

Might want to reevaluate that...😌

Yeah, I meant Rochester...  DOH!   :-P
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sprjus4

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2019, 05:17:51 PM »

The 4 bypasses total 26 miles of freeway.
Between the US 13/58/460 Business exit east of Suffolk and the US 58 Business exit west of Courtland, it's 38 miles. 20 miles of that is freeway (Courtland, Franklin, and Suffolk), and 18 miles is arterial. Another thing to note is one of most congested segments is on an arterial section, not freeway.

So it's "my way or the highway".
I'm not necessarily saying that, but I'm just saying complaining on here isn't going to help the "issue".

Because they waited so long before building any supplementary Interstate highways.  None in either the 1956 or 1968 Interstate system.
Raleigh has always had I-440 (was a state route originally, but was designated in the 80s), Charlotte had I-277, Asheville had I-240 (again, a state route initially, designated later on), and Winston-Salem has always had I-40 Business (originally I-40 until 1991). They started in the 1990s constructing the Charlotte Outer Loop and Raleigh Outer Loop, and early 2000s with the Wilmington Loop, Greensboro Loop, and Fayetteville Loop. Still under construction is the Greensboro Loop and Raleigh Outer Loop (this doesn't count though because it's toll financed), and they recently starting construction on the Winston-Salem Loop.

No way.  I-26 was about $230 million.
Looks like I over estimated that. Nowadays $1 billion for sure, but that's a different topic.

I wouldn't call the MMMBT a bottleneck yet.  The HRBT will cost $3.5 billion to expand.
The MMMBT is a significant bottleneck, not as bad as the HRBT, but it sure does have its issues. Daily backups of up to 3 miles each direction, etc., 4 lanes of traffic carrying 70,000 AADT, etc.

It is a shame that some people here can't do what I did, and look across Hampton Roads, and wonder how they will ever build 8 Interstate lanes and 4 arterial lanes across 4 miles of deep water (as in deep enough and wide enough to accommodate a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier or a fleet of them for that matter).
I wasn't around to see any of it built sadly. Now the question is how will they ever build 8 more interstate lanes across 4 miles of deep water.

I think the most impressive construction that tops all of it was the CBBT. That's 17 miles of open water.

The Capital Beltway was several years old the first time I drove on it.  I suppose it is hard to conceive of what it was like before it existed when you never saw the area back then.
The only new highways I've seen open here is Dominion Blvd, MLK Extension, and I-564 Intermodal Connector. Been here for about 10 years. I was hoping to see the opening of US-460, Southeastern Parkway, and Pleasant Grove Parkway by this time back then, but we see how those went.
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Beltway

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #177 on: January 12, 2019, 04:33:35 PM »

The 4 bypasses total 26 miles of freeway.
Between the US 13/58/460 Business exit east of Suffolk and the US 58 Business exit west of Courtland, it's 38 miles. 20 miles of that is freeway (Courtland, Franklin, and Suffolk), and 18 miles is arterial. Another thing to note is one of most congested segments is on an arterial section, not freeway.

Courtland -- 4 miles
Franklin --  10 miles
Holland --    1.5 mile
Suffolk --   10 miles

7 miles of 6-lane expressway between Suffolk Bypass and I-64/I-264/I-664.

The congested arterial section will soon be widened to 6 lanes and with intersection improvememts.

So it's "my way or the highway".
I'm not necessarily saying that, but I'm just saying complaining on here isn't going to help the "issue".

This is a discussion group, where discussions take place! 

People from the highway professional and political community may well be reading these posts.

Because they waited so long before building any supplementary Interstate highways.  None in either the 1956 or 1968 Interstate system.
Raleigh has always had I-440 (was a state route originally, but was designated in the 80s), Charlotte had I-277, Asheville had I-240 (again, a state route initially, designated later on),

Still none of those built to Interstate standards originally.   The Beaucatcher Cut section wasn't completed until 1982.

and Winston-Salem has always had I-40 Business (originally I-40 until 1991).

Built as a mainline Interstate, not a supplementary Interstate highway. 

Raleigh, the state capital, didn't even have I-40 in the original 1956 Interstate system, or any Interstate highway, the I-40 extension was authorized in 1968.

All I am saying is that it would have really helped the development history of the highway program if N.C. had gotten 6 to 8 supplementary Interstate highways authorized in the 1956 system, and maybe 2 more in 1968.

They started in the 1990s constructing the Charlotte Outer Loop and Raleigh Outer Loop, and early 2000s with the Wilmington Loop, Greensboro Loop, and Fayetteville Loop. Still under construction is the Greensboro Loop and Raleigh Outer Loop (this doesn't count though because it's toll financed), and they recently starting construction on the Winston-Salem Loop.

Of course toll financing counts!  It is all part of the mix of highway funding.  N.C. may get its third major tollroad, plus a major tolled bridge.

Still this was way short of the curve of nearly all other states, and they are a lot more expensive to build in the eras that they were built.

It is a shame that some people here can't do what I did, and look across Hampton Roads, and wonder how they will ever build 8 Interstate lanes and 4 arterial lanes across 4 miles of deep water (as in deep enough and wide enough to accommodate a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier or a fleet of them for that matter).
I wasn't around to see any of it built sadly. Now the question is how will they ever build 8 more interstate lanes across 4 miles of deep water.

I've said before that Interstate funding built I-664 and the parallel HRBT, and that hasn't been available in any major quantity for these projects since about 2000, and that the massive federal military presence in the region should justify at least 50% federal funding over and above normal FHWA funding for those crossing projects.

As it is HRBT will get 4 more lanes with the project starting this year.

I think the most impressive construction that tops all of it was the CBBT. That's 17 miles of open water.

HRBT was the model for CBBT, the HRBT was the first bridge-tunnel in the world of the type that has a manmade portal island at each end of the underwater tunnel.   CBBT was amazing, but the concept had already been demonstrated by the 4-mile-long HRBT in estuarial waters of similar depth.

Did you know that the James River Bridge (US-17) at 4.5 miles, when opened in 1928, was the longest open water bridge crossing in the world?

The Capital Beltway was several years old the first time I drove on it.  I suppose it is hard to conceive of what it was like before it existed when you never saw the area back then.
The only new highways I've seen open here is Dominion Blvd, MLK Extension, and I-564 Intermodal Connector. Been here for about 10 years. I was hoping to see the opening of US-460, Southeastern Parkway, and Pleasant Grove Parkway by this time back then, but we see how those went.

US-460 was killed by The Punk, and the Southeastern Parkway has never yet been close to even having a completed NEPA EIS/location process, let alone construction, and the parkway truly does have questionably high environmental impacts.

Regions go thru major highway development cycles, some of building new freeways, some of mostly widening freeways.  Either way involves major capacity expansion.  The last 10 years has mostly been in the latter, plus expanding crossings across the Elizabeth River ($2.1 billion). 

I-64 widening in Chesapeake, I-64 widening Newport News to Williamsburg, the new parallel Midtown Tunnel, major rehabs to the 3 older Elizabeth River tunnels, the new Jordan Bridge, the new Gilmerton Bridge, the new Dominion Blvd. bridge, the expanded I-64 bridge over Elizabeth River under construction, the new parallel Thimble Shoal Tunnel under construction, and soon the HRBT expansion to 8 lanes.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 04:44:25 PM by Beltway »
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Scott M. Savage
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froggie

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #178 on: January 12, 2019, 04:42:04 PM »

Quote from: Beltway
and the Southeastern Parkway has never yet been close to even having a completed NEPA EIS/location process,

Have to disagree there.  A Final EIS was completed and signed by VDOT and FHWA in 2008.
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Beltway

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #179 on: January 12, 2019, 04:53:38 PM »

Quote from: Beltway
and the Southeastern Parkway has never yet been close to even having a completed NEPA EIS/location process,
Have to disagree there.  A Final EIS was completed and signed by VDOT and FHWA in 2008.

I stand corrected.  It cites 243 acres of wetlands impacts (i.e. destruction) in 22 miles for the preferred alternate.  Given how built up Virginia Beach is, how are they going to compensate for that?

As a comparison, the legitimate FEIS for the US-460 Freeway was 128 acres in 55 miles, in a mostly rural area where it would have been a lot easier to compensate for those losses.

Given that both FEIS were completed in 2008, what did The Punk do about the Southeastern Parkway?
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Scott M. Savage
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froggie

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2019, 05:03:30 PM »

Southeastern Parkway was largely a Virginia Beach-led effort.  The city is still interested AFAIK but ACoE questions about the wetland impacts, plus the lack of $1B (at the time...probably higher now) to pay for it have been stumbling blocks.
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Evan_Th

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #181 on: January 12, 2019, 05:04:32 PM »

I live around Seattle.  If you take "driving" to include "riding while someone else drives," the closest stretch of freeway I haven't been on would probably be SR 519, 99, and 599 in southern Seattle.

If you require me to have been personally behind the wheel, there're a whole lot more places, including the Alaskan Way Viaduct that I just missed my last chance to drive before it comes down.  I'm planning to go walk on it at the celebration next month, though.
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Beltway

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #182 on: January 12, 2019, 05:12:43 PM »

Southeastern Parkway was largely a Virginia Beach-led effort.  The city is still interested AFAIK but ACoE questions about the wetland impacts, plus the lack of $1B (at the time...probably higher now) to pay for it have been stumbling blocks.

Tolling would be problematic given the toll-free I-264 in the same broad corridor.

Always has faced high hurdles, which was my overall point.

The city doesn't have much to say about it and doesn't mention the 2008 FEIS --
https://www.vbgov.com/government/departments/planning/areaplans/Pages/Southeastern-Parkway-Greenbelt-Location-Study.aspx
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Scott M. Savage
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sprjus4

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #183 on: January 12, 2019, 07:46:35 PM »

Courtland -- 4 miles
Franklin --  10 miles
Holland --    1.5 mile
Suffolk --   10 miles
You proved my point - 26 miles.

The congested arterial section will soon be widened to 6 lanes and with intersection improvememts.
But it goes back to the original topic - does it warrant freeway or not with traffic volumes. This segment does warrant freeway construction, but currently no "good" place for it let alone costs. Remember 4 miles was going to cost $250+ million as of that 2008 study?

Because they waited so long before building any supplementary Interstate highways.  None in either the 1956 or 1968 Interstate system.
Raleigh has always had I-440 (was a state route originally, but was designated in the 80s), Charlotte had I-277, Asheville had I-240 (again, a state route initially, designated later on), [/quote]

Still none of those built to Interstate standards originally.   The Beaucatcher Cut section wasn't completed until 1982.

and Winston-Salem has always had I-40 Business (originally I-40 until 1991).

Built as a mainline Interstate, not a supplementary Interstate highway.[/quote]
Actually I-40 Business in Winston-Salem was originally built as US 421 and US 158 in the 50s before the interstate system. The Winston-Salem Bypass was opened in 1992 and received federal funding because the original I-40 segment was state-funded.

Raleigh, the state capital, didn't even have I-40 in the original 1956 Interstate system, or any Interstate highway, the I-40 extension was authorized in 1968.
Correct. The first segment of I-40 through the area opened in 1971 from Exit 279 to 289. The rest from I-85 to south of Raleigh didn't start opening until 1983 and opened in segments until 1989. The last segment to open to Wilmington was from Exit 328 (I-95) to Exit 369 in 1991.

N.C. may get its third major tollroad, plus a major tolled bridge.
What third toll road? Are you referring to the NC-540 extension back to I-87? I'd consider that an extension of the existing toll road, not a new route. Also, two bridges at least are proposed. The Mid-Currituck Bridge and the Cape Fear Skyway in Wilmington.

As it is HRBT will get 4 more lanes with the project starting this year.
This year? The way the concepts keep changing every few months (let's make the new tunnel four lanes, let's make a 4th HO/T shoulder, let's make a direct I-564 flyover), I would think it would get pushed back farther to accommodate receiving more funding (as project costs increase) and having to design these things. As it is, I've not seen any refined designs for the new bridges over the water and the I-564 flyover.

Did you know that the James River Bridge (US-17) at 4.5 miles, when opened in 1928, was the longest open water bridge crossing in the world?
Didn't know that, that's real interesting. This area sure does have some impressive water crossings and history.

the Southeastern Parkway has never yet been close to even having a completed NEPA EIS/location process.
As froggie mentioned, there was a Final EIS in 2008.

Regions go thru major highway development cycles, some of building new freeways, some of mostly widening freeways.  Either way involves major capacity expansion.  The last 10 years has mostly been in the latter, plus expanding crossings across the Elizabeth River ($2.1 billion). 

I-64 widening in Chesapeake, I-64 widening Newport News to Williamsburg, the new parallel Midtown Tunnel, major rehabs to the 3 older Elizabeth River tunnels, the new Jordan Bridge, the new Gilmerton Bridge, the new Dominion Blvd. bridge, the expanded I-64 bridge over Elizabeth River under construction, the new parallel Thimble Shoal Tunnel under construction, and soon the HRBT expansion to 8 lanes.
Can't argue with that, there are some big projects going on now. I'm looking forward to seeing them completed in the next 5 years.

Southeastern Parkway was largely a Virginia Beach-led effort.  The city is still interested AFAIK but ACoE questions about the wetland impacts, plus the lack of $1B (at the time...probably higher now) to pay for it have been stumbling blocks.
Believe it or not, the figures actually up to over $5 billion as of recent estimates. I don't know if the city is still interested per se, I've not heard anything on it. As for Chesapeake's portion, the 2050 Master Transportation Plan here still shows it, though was told it's going to get removed in the next update of it.

Tolling would be problematic given the toll-free I-264 in the same broad corridor.
A lot of trips currently exist within the region of the now dead parkway that do not involve getting near I-264. Local traffic would have benefited the most from, and shunpiking would've existed not on I-264, but the parallel surface routes.

Always has faced high hurdles, which was my overall point.
The idea for it was good when initially proposed, and would certainly help traffic flow today, but there are issues with it. Good idea, good concept, not easy to put into reality.

The two 2-lane roads (Elbow Rd and Mt. Pleasant Rd) heading into Virginia Beach carry substantial traffic volumes that would've been significantly reduced if this was built, but nonetheless, those roads will eventually be improved and widened. Not in the next 5 years, but eventually.
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Beltway

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #184 on: January 12, 2019, 11:11:44 PM »

The congested arterial section will soon be widened to 6 lanes and with intersection improvememts.
But it goes back to the original topic - does it warrant freeway or not with traffic volumes. This segment does warrant freeway construction, but currently no "good" place for it let alone costs. Remember 4 miles was going to cost $250+ million as of that 2008 study?

Adam F. ("Froggie") worked out an alignment that he posted that would connect the Holland and Suffolk bypasses with a continuous freeway and full connectivity with the Suffolk Bypass southwest quadrant and with existing US-58 and Business US-58.

N.C. may get its third major tollroad, plus a major tolled bridge.
What third toll road? Are you referring to the NC-540 extension back to I-87? I'd consider that an extension of the existing toll road, not a new route. Also, two bridges at least are proposed. The Mid-Currituck Bridge and the Cape Fear Skyway in Wilmington.

The Cape Fear Skyway would cost over $1 billion is on indefinite hold.

The extension of the Raleigh outer loop would almost triple the length of the existing tollroad, in effect another major tollroad.  N.C. is pushing forward on toll roads.

As it is HRBT will get 4 more lanes with the project starting this year.
This year? The way the concepts keep changing every few months (let's make the new tunnel four lanes, let's make a 4th HO/T shoulder, let's make a direct I-564 flyover), I would think it would get pushed back farther to accommodate receiving more funding (as project costs increase) and having to design these things. As it is, I've not seen any refined designs for the new bridges over the water and the I-564 flyover.

Final design still being negotiated.  The developer determination that a 4-lane double bore tunnel could be built for about the same cost as a single 3-lane box tube, occurred within the last year.

Per June 2018 briefing to the CTB, execute Comprehensive Agreement in March 2019, Construction Complete in December 2024.

From the briefing --
"A preliminary design was developed as a proof-of-concept for the Final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS).  In 2018, VDOT will request proposals from bidders to develop innovations that refine this design concept, which will be finalized when the construction contract is awarded in 2019."

Three scope options included in Draft RFP:
• Direct connect ramps from I-64 HOT to I-564
• Increase height clearance at the existing WB Tunnel
• Replace existing marine approach bridges

Marine Construction Considerations
- Marine bridges have risks but are largely conventional 
- Tunnel work is less conventional and will generate greatest risks from cost and schedule standpoint
- This is a rare location where both immersed-tube and bored tunnel construction methods are feasible
  • All ten Hampton Roads tunnels to date have been immersed tubes
  • Until recently, bored tunnels were not feasible in soft soils
  • But recent advances in technology now make bored tunnels possible in soft soils 
- Both tunnel methods were directly compared in the nearby CBBT - Thimble Shoal Tunnel procurement in 2015
  • Received Bored Tunnel proposals only
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:21:49 PM by Beltway »
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Scott M. Savage
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sprjus4

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2019, 11:29:38 PM »

Adam F. ("Froggie") worked out an alignment that he posted that would connect the Holland and Suffolk bypasses with a continuous freeway and full connectivity with the Suffolk Bypass southwest quadrant and with existing US-58 and Business US-58.
Oh, I know, I've seen it, I also did a design as part of my "US-58 freeway" to I-85, but the issue is cost, especially the junction with the Suffolk Bypass. It's workable, as seen by both of our ideas, but it's position combined with the US-13 interchange creates a challenge on a seamless design.

The Cape Fear Skyway would cost over $1 billion is on indefinite hold.
It's up for environmental studies & planning again, those being funded in the STIP. https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/cape-fear-crossing/Pages/default.aspx

The extension of the Raleigh outer loop would almost triple the length of the existing tollroad, in effect another major tollroad.
It's all Toll NC-540 in the end, tolled from its eastern end at I-87 to the western end at NC-147. A new road in my mind would be a new route, not an extension of an existing tolling road.

N.C. is pushing forward on toll roads.
To an extent, there's still major projects that are being done without tolls. US-1 is going to be converted to an urban arterial to a six-lane freeway starting at I-540 northwards, and will not be toll financed, all of the I-42, I-87, I-795, I-74, I-73, I-840, I-295 freeways that have to be built eventually will not be tolled, the massive I-95 expansion will not include tolls, etc.

I'm curious as to what their criteria for choosing which projects get tolled is.

Final design still being negotiated.  The developer determination that a 4-lane double bore tunnel could be built for about the same cost as a single 3-lane box tube, occurred within the last year.

Per June 2018 briefing to the CTB, execute Comprehensive Agreement in March 2019, Construction Complete in December 2024.

From the briefing --
"A preliminary design was developed as a proof-of-concept for the Final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS).  In 2018, VDOT will request proposals from bidders to develop innovations that refine this design concept, which will be finalized when the construction contract is awarded in 2019."
I'm willing to bet it won't start construction for another year, but I guess we'll see how it goes. I-64 High Rise Bridge was about 4 months late on construction, though it's plans were fully finalized in advance.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #186 on: January 13, 2019, 10:34:42 AM »

Quote
I'm curious as to what their criteria for choosing which projects get tolled is.

State law.  The initial legislation authorized 9 toll projects.  Subsequent legislation mandated that any future toll projects require legislative approval.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #187 on: January 13, 2019, 03:32:03 PM »

Quote
I'm curious as to what their criteria for choosing which projects get tolled is.

State law.  The initial legislation authorized 9 toll projects.  Subsequent legislation mandated that any future toll projects require legislative approval.
What were the initial 9? Did it include the HO/T lanes as well?

The only tolls I can think of are NC-540, Mid-Currituck Bridge, and U.S. 74 Bypass.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #188 on: January 13, 2019, 06:34:25 PM »

^ You'd have to look it up.  I think there's a link somewhere on NCDOT's website.
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Beltway

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #189 on: January 13, 2019, 06:39:28 PM »

^ You'd have to look it up.  I think there's a link somewhere on NCDOT's website.

10 tollroads … the rest are Interstate highway express lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/divisions/turnpike/turnpike-projects/Pages/default.aspx
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Scott M. Savage
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #190 on: January 13, 2019, 08:09:51 PM »

10 tollroads … the rest are Interstate highway express lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/divisions/turnpike/turnpike-projects/Pages/default.aspx
Interstate express lanes for the most part, but U.S. 74 is a weird situation I've never seen, but really interesting. It's a 6-lane at-grade roadway with businesses, etc. along the side with direct driveway access, but has express lanes in the median and every crossroad is grade separated and access is provided at tight urban interchanges. Like a freeway, but not... It's located south of Charlotte inside the beltway (I-485)

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ctkatz

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #191 on: January 31, 2019, 06:04:04 AM »

I've got two, none of I 64 east of lexington and I 24 east of the western kentucky parkway.  I only managed 75 from the 71 split to the 64 split only because going through cincy on a road trip I decided f it, take 75 cause it's not as though I'm planning for anything in the northeast anytime soon.

i just need to go north on 75 from lex and find a way to get all of 24 west and 24 east to clarksville and I have all of kentucky done, fully completed highways and non x69 3di interstates included.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #192 on: February 09, 2019, 10:36:20 AM »

   US 395 freeway in Spokane. I have not been up that way in quite a while. Also have not been on the US 95 freeway stretch north of Coeur d'Alene yet since that was finished.
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bing101

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #193 on: February 09, 2019, 03:02:24 PM »

I-580 and I-238 are freeways I never driven on.
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jakeroot

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #194 on: February 09, 2019, 09:46:58 PM »

US 395 freeway in Spokane. I have not been up that way in quite a while.

Thanks for reminding me. That, and the WA-240 freeway in the Tri-Cities, are the only WA freeways that I haven't driven. I never seem to make my way east of the cascades.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #195 on: February 10, 2019, 10:58:44 AM »

The U.S. 301 Middletown Bypass in Delaware.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #196 on: February 10, 2019, 01:21:23 PM »

The U.S. 301 Middletown Bypass in Delaware.

I'd imagine there are still a few of us on the forum for whom that is now the case, myself included.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #197 on: March 30, 2019, 04:38:17 PM »

WI-16 freeway in the Milwaukee area, 55 miles.
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7/8

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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #198 on: March 31, 2019, 02:24:29 PM »

There's several short sections of freeway I'm missing in Toronto
  • The 400 south of the 401
  • Allen Road
  • The Gardiner east of Jarvis St
  • The DVP south of Danforth Ave

An example similar to the OP would be the 403 between Woodstock (the 401) and Hamilton (RR 52). I've only driven that segment once or twice and it was for going between job sites.
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Re: Nearest Freeway Segment You've Never Driven
« Reply #199 on: March 31, 2019, 07:56:02 PM »

It is a shame that some people here can't do what I did, and look across Hampton Roads, and wonder how they will ever build 8 Interstate lanes and 4 arterial lanes across 4 miles of deep water (as in deep enough and wide enough to accommodate a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier or a fleet of them for that matter).
I wasn't around to see any of it built sadly. Now the question is how will they ever build 8 more interstate lanes across 4 miles of deep water.

There is nowhere in Hampton Roads area except the CBBT where four miles of deep water is crossed. (The CBBT is mostly in waters 40'-50' deep.) Most of the water within the Hampton Roads basin is under 30 feet deep. It's only in the dredged deep-water channels where depth exceeds 30 feet. The widest deep water is the turnaround deep basin alongside the navy base which is a mile across. The approaches to the MMMBT and HRBT are in waters less than 30 feet deep. Building new crossings of Hampton Roads would be fairly simple if the USN didn't prohibit bridges across the channel between the shipyards and the ocean.
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