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Author Topic: License Plate News  (Read 339153 times)

SP Cook

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1050 on: April 10, 2019, 10:25:00 AM »

I agree.  Both WV (which has probably the most anti-job creator government outside of California in North America) and Virginia (which is rapidly trying to catch up to its daughter state) have tried the slogan recently.  It is sill and preachy.  And just not true.  If you have to say it, it is cause you ain't it.

You also see county line signs that proclaim the county a "Certifed Business Location" all over.  Also meaningless.  As I understand it, this is a PCed up version of the 1970s era "Certified Business Relocation Jurisdicton" which in turn was derived from earlier signs inviting northern businessmen driving to Florida to "Move your factory here" and which emphisized a pliant local gentry.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1051 on: April 10, 2019, 10:40:05 AM »

Open for business? As opposed to what, a centralized fascist government that controls the means of production ("get lost")?

Dumb slogan. Used by various US states as well. I hate them all.

Yeah, the old one was waaaaaay better. Same sign, same location...

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1052 on: April 10, 2019, 01:05:28 PM »

Open for business? As opposed to what, a centralized fascist government that controls the means of production ("get lost")?

Dumb slogan. Used by various US states as well. I hate them all.
"Open for Business" will only show up on a relatively small number of vehicles.  Passenger cars, which make up the vast majority of plates issued, will say "A Place to Grow."

Some people in Ontario seem to be bent out of shape about that.  I don't think it's a bad slogan.  A website URL, like we have in Michigan, would be worse.
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signalman

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1053 on: April 10, 2019, 01:21:15 PM »

Open for business? As opposed to what, a centralized fascist government that controls the means of production ("get lost")?

Dumb slogan. Used by various US states as well. I hate them all.
"Open for Business" will only show up on a relatively small number of vehicles.  Passenger cars, which make up the vast majority of plates issued, will say "A Place to Grow."

Some people in Ontario seem to be bent out of shape about that.  I don't think it's a bad slogan.  A website URL, like we have in Michigan, would be worse.
The "open for business" slogan implies that the state/province cares more about business than its citizens.

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1054 on: April 10, 2019, 10:13:38 PM »

The "open for business" slogan implies that the state/province cares more about business than its citizens.

I am not sure if that's a good thing to imply, nor am I sure that a licence plate is the best spot for it.
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signalman

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1055 on: April 10, 2019, 10:34:24 PM »

The "open for business" slogan implies that the state/province cares more about business than its citizens.

I am not sure if that's a good thing to imply, nor am I sure that a licence plate is the best spot for it.
It belongs on neither welcome signs nor license plates.

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1056 on: April 10, 2019, 10:39:22 PM »

Open for business? As opposed to what, a centralized fascist government that controls the means of production ("get lost")?

Dumb slogan. Used by various US states as well. I hate them all.
"Open for Business" will only show up on a relatively small number of vehicles.  Passenger cars, which make up the vast majority of plates issued, will say "A Place to Grow."

Some people in Ontario seem to be bent out of shape about that.  I don't think it's a bad slogan.  A website URL, like we have in Michigan, would be worse.
The "open for business" slogan implies that the state/province cares more about business than its citizens.

But Doug's slogan is "For the People" :bigass:

Steering away from politics, I think "A Place to Grow" is a perfectly good slogan, but "Open for Business" is definitely tacky. I'm more interested in what will happen with front plates. I kind of like having them since seeing a car without one is a signal for me to check their rear plate to see where they're from. I would prefer cars to be built with front plates in mind so we wouldn't have the problem of not having a good spot to put them on the front. But I can't deny that some cars will look a lot better without them, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
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kphoger

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1057 on: April 11, 2019, 02:31:52 PM »

I once had to explain to a local cop at a traffic checkpoint in a Mexican town the reason my car had no front license plate was that my state doesn't issue them.
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Flint1979

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1058 on: April 11, 2019, 02:38:57 PM »

I once had to explain to a local cop at a traffic checkpoint in a Mexican town the reason my car had no front license plate was that my state doesn't issue them.
I have never had that problem even in states that use them.
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Flint1979

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1059 on: April 11, 2019, 02:41:37 PM »

These are a few of the old license plates that I've kept over the years that I've had. The Michigan plate on top is still widely seen.
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kphoger

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1060 on: April 11, 2019, 03:32:21 PM »


I once had to explain to a local cop at a traffic checkpoint in a Mexican town the reason my car had no front license plate was that my state doesn't issue them.

I have never had that problem even in states that use them.

Pertinent portion highlighted above.  Every state in Mexico has front license plates.  And these were local cops, not federales.
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J N Winkler

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1061 on: April 11, 2019, 05:46:19 PM »

One would hope that police forces in the US are far better trained than this--I have certainly found this to be the case--but I have had civilians in states that issue front license plates look at the front of my Kansas-plated car (rear plate only) and then glare at me as if I were some kind of outlaw.
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Brandon

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1062 on: April 11, 2019, 07:09:42 PM »

One would hope that police forces in the US are far better trained than this--I have certainly found this to be the case--but I have had civilians in states that issue front license plates look at the front of my Kansas-plated car (rear plate only) and then glare at me as if I were some kind of outlaw.

Shoot, I've had Chicagoans look at me like I'm some kind of outlaw for not having a municipal sticker on the windshield on my car.  Not every municipality in Illinois issues them.  My own, Joliet, does not.
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1063 on: April 11, 2019, 07:13:27 PM »

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kphoger

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1064 on: April 11, 2019, 07:50:16 PM »



I once had to explain to a local cop at a traffic checkpoint in a Mexican town the reason my car had no front license plate was that my state doesn't issue them.

I have never had that problem even in states that use them.

Pertinent portion highlighted above.  Every state in Mexico has front license plates.  And these were local cops, not federales.

One would hope that police forces in the US are far better trained than this--I have certainly found this to be the case--but I have had civilians in states that issue front license plates look at the front of my Kansas-plated car (rear plate only) and then glare at me as if I were some kind of outlaw.

Not the same.  In both the USA and Canada, it's a mixed bag as to states/provinces/territories issuing or not issuing front license plates.  Chances are slim that any local cop in the USA hasn't seen dozens of cars from states that don't issue front plates.

But imagine if it were the other way around.  Imagine if every state in the USA had front license plates, and it were Mexico that's a mixed bag.  Oh yeah, and imagine that the two most populous Mexican states bordering the USA did issue front plates.  And then imagine a local cop in a town the size of Hutchinson sees a Mexican car in town with no front license plate.  Surely, then, you wouldn't think the cop's ignorance was a sign or poor training, would you?

That's the way it was for me.  Every state in Mexico issues front plates.  Of the four states that border Mexico, California and Texas account for nearly 90% of the population, and both of them issue front plates; Texas is the only state that borders the one I was in.  I was in a town of 45k people, a town which is not along any long-distance highway corridor, 300 miles from the border.  It was a street-side checkpoint in the middle of town manned by local cops.  Mine might very well have been the first car from the USA he'd ever dealt with.
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J N Winkler

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1065 on: April 12, 2019, 11:07:06 AM »

One would hope that police forces in the US are far better trained than this--I have certainly found this to be the case--but I have had civilians in states that issue front license plates look at the front of my Kansas-plated car (rear plate only) and then glare at me as if I were some kind of outlaw.

Not the same.  In both the USA and Canada, it's a mixed bag as to states/provinces/territories issuing or not issuing front license plates.  Chances are slim that any local cop in the USA hasn't seen dozens of cars from states that don't issue front plates.

The two cases are similar in that you are dealing with people who have no concept that the procedure can be different in another jurisdiction.

But imagine if it were the other way around.  Imagine if every state in the USA had front license plates, and it were Mexico that's a mixed bag.  Oh yeah, and imagine that the two most populous Mexican states bordering the USA did issue front plates.  And then imagine a local cop in a town the size of Hutchinson sees a Mexican car in town with no front license plate.  Surely, then, you wouldn't think the cop's ignorance was a sign of poor training, would you?

Actually, yes, I would.  When you see a vehicle that facially appears to be registered in another jurisdiction, you have to be very careful to ensure you have a correct understanding of that jurisdiction's requirements before you attempt to enforce them.  I do agree that there are many Kansans who would not object at all to a cop in Hutchinson jumping on a vehicle registered in a Mexican state even when it turned out that it was fully compliant in that state.  I say this because I have seen at least one person I went to high school with rant and rave on Facebook about how Spanish speakers get to jump the queue at the driver licensing office.

On this forum, we have had some discussion in the past of DC cops enforcing immatriculation requirements on out-of-state vehicles.  I do not think they should be in the business of doing this at all.  It is difficult to keep up with changes in statute law, let alone administrative procedure, in all fifty states, and it is only distantly connected to their core responsibility of dealing with crime within DC itself.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1066 on: April 12, 2019, 12:53:19 PM »

Actually, yes, I would.  When you see a vehicle that facially appears to be registered in another jurisdiction, you have to be very careful to ensure you have a correct understanding of that jurisdiction's requirements before you attempt to enforce them.  I do agree that there are many Kansans who would not object at all to a cop in Hutchinson jumping on a vehicle registered in a Mexican state even when it turned out that it was fully compliant in that state.  I say this because I have seen at least one person I went to high school with rant and rave on Facebook about how Spanish speakers get to jump the queue at the driver licensing office.
So a small-town Mexican cop in the interior that has likely never even dealt with an American car in his entire career is going to know that, unlike Mexico, some US states don't have front plates?  I don't recall when I found out that some states only have the rear plate, but it was definitely later than one would think given that NY borders PA and I have relatives from MI.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1067 on: April 12, 2019, 12:59:37 PM »

Actually, yes, I would.  When you see a vehicle that facially appears to be registered in another jurisdiction, you have to be very careful to ensure you have a correct understanding of that jurisdiction's requirements before you attempt to enforce them.  I do agree that there are many Kansans who would not object at all to a cop in Hutchinson jumping on a vehicle registered in a Mexican state even when it turned out that it was fully compliant in that state.  I say this because I have seen at least one person I went to high school with rant and rave on Facebook about how Spanish speakers get to jump the queue at the driver licensing office.
So a small-town Mexican cop in the interior that has likely never even dealt with an American car in his entire career is going to know that, unlike Mexico, some US states don't have front plates?  I don't recall when I found out that some states only have the rear plate, but it was definitely later than one would think given that NY borders PA and I have relatives from MI.

I've seen American cars abroad in both Mexico and Europe from non-front plate states where the car owner has made their own front plate for compliance purposes, presumably to avoid this issue.

I remember distinctly a very bad knockoff Arizona front plate on an Arizona registered car in Romania, for instance.

This may actually be required by the Vienna Convention of 1977 (of which European countries are all signatories and which Mexico observes) that requires the display of a front plate even if the originating jurisdiction did not issue one.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 01:27:11 PM by corco »
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kphoger

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1068 on: April 12, 2019, 02:02:13 PM »

For what it's worth...

In many Mexican states, if you are traveling on a temporary vehicle importation permit (required for all travel beyond the border zone), then your license plates don't even have to be valid anymore!  As long as they were valid when you got your permit, the expiration date on the permit counts as your registration expiration while in Mexico.  Of course, it's still not a good idea to let your tags expire while in Mexico because—even if you intend to renew them at the end of your permit—once you cross the border into the USA, your entire trip back home from there is on expired tags.

In a handful of other Mexican states, on the other hand, you are required to have valid US plates and a valid importation permit.
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J N Winkler

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1069 on: April 12, 2019, 03:15:19 PM »

So a small-town Mexican cop in the interior that has likely never even dealt with an American car in his entire career is going to know that, unlike Mexico, some US states don't have front plates?  I don't recall when I found out that some states only have the rear plate, but it was definitely later than one would think given that NY borders PA and I have relatives from MI.

The small-town Mexican cop doesn't need to know about front-and-rear versus rear-only.  He just needs to know that the car appears to be from Kansas and the rules there are not necessarily the same as in Mexico.  (Notwithstanding Corco's comment, I really doubt the frame of reference of such a cop includes the Vienna convention and its requirements regarding front plates.)

I was probably 20 (driving for three years) when I realized that cars from other states had front plates that were legally required and not just for show, as is the case in Kansas with vanity plates.  The closest plate-issuing out-of-state jurisdiction to Wichita is Oklahoma, which is rear-only, but plates from Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri (all front-and-rear) are decently common around here.  I was 21 when I got glared at right after parking my Kansas-registered car in Maryland.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1070 on: April 12, 2019, 10:34:31 PM »

On this forum, we have had some discussion in the past of DC cops enforcing immatriculation requirements on out-of-state vehicles.

By "immatriculation", you mean "registration"? I looked up the word, and everything I'm reading indicates that "immatriculation" is French for "registration".
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1071 on: April 12, 2019, 11:24:07 PM »

Colorado has apparently started issuing new plates using an ABC-D12 sequence. I say "apparently" because to date, I've only seen them in person on special issue plates. At least previously, these plates, like all other plates, have been drawn from the same pool of combinations which until recently has been ABC-123. Special issue plates are flat process and made to order. However, I also saw on TV a shot of a police vehicle that had an embossed plate with a GVT code with a combination using this new sequence. It's almost sure, therefore, that in a short time, we will see standard passenger car plates using the same series.

The ABC-123 plates use the same sequence as plates issued around 1985-93, which have never been called in. They're rare, but you still see some on the road. At first, the new plates were issued using all the possible Q combinations, then the O combinations, neither of which would have been used in the original issuance. Then, they started in at AAA-001 and went forward. The intent was to simply skip any combination still in use on an earlier issue plate. But, I suspect that it has proven difficult to avoid existing plates, and a decision was made to stop issuing plates in the ABC-123 series some time in the mid D##- sequence and go to the new series.
And as of today I've seen the first general issue embossed plate using that sequence. What is even more surprising is that the fourth letter, which is in a position that the observer might expect to be a number, can be the letter O. I've seen plates with I and Q in that spot, but those are fairly easy to distinguish from a number. And, the letter O is made different from a 0 on Colorado plates. But, especially out of state, I would expect misidentification to be common. I wonder if automatic plate readers are programmed to distinguish those characters.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1072 on: April 13, 2019, 11:23:38 AM »

On this forum, we have had some discussion in the past of DC cops enforcing immatriculation requirements on out-of-state vehicles.

By "immatriculation", you mean "registration"? I looked up the word, and everything I'm reading indicates that "immatriculation" is French for "registration".

I wondered what he meant by that word.

DC's enforcement is a little more complicated than just registration requirements. In Virginia, for example, the state safety inspection is not part of the registration process, but if you drive your Virginia-plated car in DC with an expired inspection sticker, you may get a ticket (and probably will if you park on the street). DC requires that all vehicles display two license plates but allows an exception for vehicles from jurisdictions that only issue one plate. I seem to recall a newspaper story some years ago about some state (I have no idea which) issuing two plates but only requiring the rear plate, which then led to someone from that state getting a ticket in DC for not displaying the front plate. (That's unjust, IMO.) Some really aggressive DC ticket-writers will nail you for "improper display of a license plate" if you put your plate stickers on incorrectly (example for Virginia: the year sticker on the left and the month sticker on the right), although most of them will let it go as long as they can see the expiration date.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1073 on: April 13, 2019, 02:12:07 PM »

The dictionary definition of immatriculation is "an act, state, or process of being enrolled (as in an official register)."  I use it (instead of the word registration) in a broader sense to signify the totality of what is required to bring a vehicle to a condition where it can legally be operated or left on the public highway.  This includes:

*  Full compliance with all vehicle equipment requirements (type approval, FMVSS, state-required safety equipment, etc.)

*  Insurance, if the jurisdiction in which it is required mandates insurance to meet a financial responsibility standard

*  Registration, including keeping it current if the registering jurisdiction requires periodic renewal

*  Compliance with driver qualification requirements when the vehicle is being driven (driver has a license; driver is carrying the license with him or her if he or she is otherwise liable for citation or arrest on failure to produce a license immediately; insurance policy is valid when the car is being driven by that driver)

*  Compliance with any applicable emissions requirements

*  Compliance with any applicable anti-nuisance legislation (aimed at, e.g., noise, smoke)

*  If parked on the public highway, compliance with any applicable requirements, including those of a general character that are not signed, e.g. maximum time periods that are designed to prevent inoperable junkers being left on the street (Wichita has a 48-hour maximum)

*  Display or carriage of any legally required proofs of the foregoing

I seem to recall a newspaper story some years ago about some state (I have no idea which) issuing two plates but only requiring the rear plate, which then led to someone from that state getting a ticket in DC for not displaying the front plate. (That's unjust, IMO.)

It is unjust, and it is also a perfect illustration of why DC should not be in the business of enforcing other states' requirements.  They should definitely focus on diplomatic vehicles, however.  Those are effectively locally registered since the State Department issues the plates, and if anything, diplomats should expect to see more stringent enforcement than the driving public at large to compensate for the moral hazard that diplomatic immunity creates.  And while I realize this is not under the control of the DC Police, the State Department should be quite aggressive about following up on diplomats whose lawbreaking while driving rises above the level of a traffic infraction to criminality.
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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1074 on: April 17, 2019, 06:44:05 AM »

Open for business? As opposed to what, a centralized fascist government that controls the means of production ("get lost")?

Dumb slogan. Used by various US states as well. I hate them all.

Our former governor Scott Walker used the slogan for my state. I hated it.

The "open for business" slogan implies that the state/province cares more about business than its citizens.

I am not sure if that's a good thing to imply, nor am I sure that a licence plate is the best spot for it.
It belongs on neither welcome signs nor license plates.

Agreed.
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