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Author Topic: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94  (Read 2741 times)

nexus73

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2018, 02:40:16 PM »

Not a USA President, but the UK's Tories under Winston Churchill lost the first election that was called shortly after WWII ended, resulting in Clement Atlee's Labour Party taking over, after which they promptly set about to nationalize the entire country.
Attlee et al had already nationalised a lot of the country during the war. What they did after the election was formalise that for peacetime. Attlee was Deputy PM and Home Secretary until the election process started.

Churchill only became Prime Minister during the war because he was the person Attlee wanted in charge of the war. Attlee, after the Norway debates, held most of the cards - there was a clear need to form a broader coalition than Chamberlain's crumbling one, and Attlee was the hold out. So Churchill managed to get the Tories to support his War Government (which was a tall ask as most Tories hated Churchill) because Attlee was happy to join. And that was because Labour were de facto in charge of all domestic policy (the Tories did foreign policy/war stuff, and the money was joint) under Churchill's proposals.

While the 1945 election had a massive swing towards Labour in the legislature (which wasn't Churchill losing, but Tories losing - the party, rather than the man - if anything Churchill stopped it being even more of a rout), when you look at the change in the executive branch, there was no more change than the replacement of Thatcher with Major (as an example). PM unable to carry on thanks to cabinet plotting, with a new PM from within the executive branch taking over due to getting the backing of the legislative branch, and then appointing mates to replace supporters of the former-PM. OK, that the executive branch in the UK is formed of members of the legislative branch complicates matters, but it wasn't so much the people that ousted Churchill after the war via the ballot box as the people's representatives did by ending their support for him.

Thank you for a great explanation of late war politics in the UK.  I have never heard this story before as to why Churchill lost in 1945.  Save the world and get the boot...LOL!

Rick
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2018, 02:58:35 PM »

Oswald enlisted in the Marine Corps in October, 1956.  Like all marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting.  In December 1956, he scored 212, which was slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter.  In May 1959 he scored 191, which reduced his rating to marksman.
It was not a difficult shot, you don't even need to be a trained infantryman (like Oswald) to kill someone at 50 to 70 yards with a high-powered rifle at essentially point-blank range (in windage and elevation) for that rifle.  A WWII rifle designed to hit and kill soldiers at 200 yards.
And, having been up the the Sixth Floor Museum (which I recommend by the way), and looking out that exact window, Oswald had to be a complete idiot to miss that shot.  As it was, he did miss at least one that struck the pavement.

That is the nature of shooting, it is not guaranteed, some shots may miss, that is why they use multiple shots, and he probably could have gotten off 5 or 6 if needed before the SS and LEO pinpointed him and returned fire; that is probably why he fired from the rear when he could have initially fired from the front.  I have not been in the the Sixth Floor Museum, but others have commented that Dealey Plaza is a much smaller space than they would have thought.

A limosine with an apparent motion of 6mph at 50 yards is not a difficult target.

Feral pigs are -fast- ... these are difficult shots but the hunters made most of them --
Pigs on the run
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 03:01:06 PM by Beltway »
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Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2018, 03:15:21 PM »

Imagine if, Bush Sr would have been eaten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident would the course of America still be the same today?

There were 9 soldiers, 8 of them captured & eaten/beheaded, while the 9th one Bush Sr did not get captured & survived, is that luck or what?


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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2018, 03:39:52 PM »

Imagine if, Bush Sr would have been eaten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident would the course of America still be the same today?
There were 9 soldiers, 8 of them captured & eaten/beheaded, while the 9th one Bush Sr did not get captured & survived, is that luck or what?

Butterfly effect.

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

The term, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the metaphorical example of the details of a tornado (the exact time of formation, the exact path taken) being influenced by minor perturbations such as the flapping of the wings of a distant butterfly several weeks earlier.  Lorenz discovered the effect when he observed that runs of his weather model with initial condition data that was rounded in a seemingly inconsequential manner would fail to reproduce the results of runs with the unrounded initial condition data.   A very small change in initial conditions had created a significantly different outcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2018, 06:02:40 PM »

Imagine if, Bush Sr would have been eaten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident would the course of America still be the same today?

There were 9 soldiers, 8 of them captured & eaten/beheaded, while the 9th one Bush Sr did not get captured & survived, is that luck or what?



There was a Justice Society comic some years back where the team had to rescue certain endangered people who were vital to the future. On the final page, it was revealed they were all people who would eventually become President.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2018, 01:38:10 AM »

Imagine if, Bush Sr would have been eaten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident would the course of America still be the same today?

There were 9 soldiers, 8 of them captured & eaten/beheaded, while the 9th one Bush Sr did not get captured & survived, is that luck or what?


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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2018, 07:16:18 AM »

Imagine if, Bush Sr would have been eaten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichijima_incident would the course of America still be the same today?

There were 9 soldiers, 8 of them captured & eaten/beheaded, while the 9th one Bush Sr did not get captured & survived, is that luck or what?


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I doubt much would be different. Reagan would have picked another New England Republican to balance his ticket. Maybe they would have run for President in 1988, maybe not. Maybe they would have been elected to one or two terms, maybe not.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2018, 11:51:01 AM »

In just eight months, George and Barbara are together again in heaven. I figured it would be a matter of time before he went not too long after she did.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2018, 07:22:08 PM »

In just eight months, George and Barbara are together again in heaven. I figured it would be a matter of time before he went not too long after she did.

My mom survived about 2 1/2 years without dad.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2018, 07:38:33 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?

I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2018, 08:27:40 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?

I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.


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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2018, 08:30:08 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?
I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.

If we're remembering tragedy all the time, it loses its impact. There's nothing disrespectful about that.
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Tonytone

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2018, 08:31:20 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?
I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.

If we're remembering tragedy all the time, it loses its impact. There's nothing disrespectful about that.
Did you see how I said “higher level population” that flag isn’t for us, it’s for the rich.


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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2018, 08:36:30 PM »

How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.
If we're remembering tragedy all the time, it loses its impact. There's nothing disrespectful about that.
Did you see how I said “higher level population” that flag isn’t for us, it’s for the rich.

Unless it's only the wealthy dying in those mass shootings, that's just demonstrably not true. That is, unless you're also trying to insinuate that that's the only people it should be for, which is just as silly.
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Tonytone

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »

How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.
If we're remembering tragedy all the time, it loses its impact. There's nothing disrespectful about that.
Did you see how I said “higher level population” that flag isn’t for us, it’s for the rich.

Unless it's only the wealthy dying in those mass shootings, that's just demonstrably not true.
Thats true, but what does America really stand for nowadays? Seems like everything is for money nowadays.


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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2018, 08:48:44 PM »

Thats true, but what does America really stand for nowadays? Seems like everything is for money nowadays.

Money is the foundation of the economy. If it was suddenly meaningless, we'd have a problem.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2018, 08:50:52 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?

I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.


Since one of the "affected" high schools in the past year was one I'd graduated from, I kindly ask that we step back from internet knee-jerk overreactions and keep it on-topic.

A tragedy is a tragedy.

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2018, 08:50:57 PM »

Thats true, but what does America really stand for nowadays? Seems like everything is for money nowadays.

Money is the foundation of the economy. If it was suddenly meaningless, we'd have a problem.
Wowers, I didnt know money comes with us when we die. Thats why everything’s messed up now, back in the day everyone was trying to build up & find out more about life, now its work 12-12 with 1 day off.


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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2018, 08:52:31 PM »

Thats true, but what does America really stand for nowadays?

I don't think that's a meaningful question, nor do I think it has ever been meaningful.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2018, 09:13:09 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?
I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.
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I know this is a relatively minor thing, but it's half staff, not half mast. Half mast only applies in the Navy.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2018, 09:38:53 PM »

Thats true, but what does America really stand for nowadays? Seems like everything is for money nowadays.

Money is the foundation of the economy. If it was suddenly meaningless, we'd have a problem.

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2018, 09:44:47 PM »

Haven't flags been flying low since the stone age with all the onesy-twosey shootings happening lately?
I've been saying that for years now, and my parents both agree.  Flags are flying at half-mast so frequently these days that I've stopped even wondering why they're at half-mast.  It seems like, if someone's dog gets run over by a car, all the flags fly at half-mast.
How dare you disrespect the half mast status, that means we are missing the important events that take place, in the higher level population.
iPhone

I know this is a relatively minor thing, but it's half staff, not half mast. Half mast only applies in the Navy.

Half-mast is the proper term in the vast majority of the English-speaking world. Congress decided to say "half-staff" when they enacted the Flag Code, but that doesn't make "half-mast" incorrect in general use.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2018, 10:36:49 PM »

President George H. W. Bush was one of my favorite former presidents. Sure, his presidency was filled with little tiny gaffes that cost him a second term in office, and he was largely inactive during an AIDS crisis that killed way too many people in the late '80s, but damn if he wasn't a great man in almost every other respect.

He and Barbara were celebrating the birth of one of their great grandchildren a little while back, and 41's grand-daughter Jenna asked him, "What's the most important thing you've learned in your life?"

Bush replied, "Be true to yourself. To thy own self, be true."

Rest easy, H. W. I may not remember you, but you've got my respect.
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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2018, 10:39:09 PM »

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Re: Former President George H.W. Bush Dies at 94
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2018, 05:46:33 AM »

Save the world and get the boot...LOL!
To be fair to Attlee, we were overdue another election having not had one since '37, and the war was all but over so the war coalition was rather pointless. He proposed at the Labour party annual conference that he wanted an election in Autumn, with the war coalition Government ending when it was called. Churchill, pretty much immediately after hearing what Attlee had said to his party, decided he needed to capitalise on the nations mood towards him personally post-VE day for the unpopular Tories* to have a hope of winning the election and so the next day went to the king to resign as PM and dissolve parliament (ie call an election) - which the king did, before asking Churchill to build a caretaker government to run the country until the election.

Churchill stayed on as Tory leader despite presiding over its (still) biggest loss - because it wasn't about him that they lost. And he turned it around - making Attlee's government very wobbly in 1950, and then winning a majority (of seats - Attlee's Labour got more votes) in 1951. But, old and unwell, his peace-time premiership was not good (it's generally considered to be pretty terrible). All the issues that had plagued his political career were still there - stubbornness, not being liked by the Tories, etc. But he had that "this is the guy who won the war" respect that meant that he was untouchable wrt getting rid of him unless you were his wife or the Monarch (George VI may have suggested retirement in the few months between election and death, but after that Liz was a young girl and needing to learn the ropes, while also in awe of Churchill) - and even then the stubborn man would likely reject it. He finally went in '55, and his prodigy is seen as the worst PM of the 20th century** (the poster boy of someone very highly qualified, well trained with lots of experience - and then turning out to be totally rubbish), because - unlike Churchill - his role during WW2 (as Foreign Secretary) doesn't get the focus, but his mistakes do.

Churchill was the right man for that one job we applaud him for, but really not good at any other office he had. We, like 50s Britain, give him pass after pass (and that was more so once he was dead) - as they somewhat did pre-war - even he admitted he was politically finished after Gallipoli in 1915 and the abdication crisis of 1936. OK, he worked hard both times to rehabilitate himself (returning to the army and making forays into no-mans land in WW1 despite his high rank to undo Gallipoli, leading the anti-appeasement campaign in the run up to WW2).

*They'd been leading the government for a very long time, and so had so much baggage making them unpopular. You get this in the US and was one factor in why Bush 41 was a one term presidency.
**Churchill is either ranked right near the top, or in the middle, depending if the experts (scholars, politicians, etc) remember his third stint in the 50s. Attlee is always first or second - with either Thatcher or Churchill beating him if he's not top.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 05:49:14 AM by english si »
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