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Author Topic: Virginia plans to toll I-81  (Read 8854 times)

Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2019, 10:16:11 PM »

That is pretty much what I envisioned.

Nice drafting tool … what did you use?
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2019, 10:19:44 PM »

That is pretty much what I envisioned.

Nice drafting tool … what did you use?
https://www.scribblemaps.com/

I've used in the past for other conceptualizations I've done, including upgrading U.S. 58 to I-85, U.S. 17 in Chesapeake, etc. on this forum. It's a neat website and it's free & easy to use.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 10:25:46 PM by sprjus4 »
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2019, 12:53:13 PM »

That is pretty much what I envisioned.

Exactly! So has this idea even crossed someone's desk at VDOT? This makes more sense than the plan being put forth.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2019, 01:00:09 PM »

That is pretty much what I envisioned.

Exactly! So has this idea even crossed someone's desk at VDOT? This makes more sense than the plan being put forth.
I don't know, but it took me about 30 minutes to come up with that whole concept. It took them a year to come up with ideas on the official plan, and even some of those don't make sense.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2019, 02:21:02 PM »

What doesn't make sense to you about it?
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2019, 10:08:52 AM »

What doesn't make sense to you about it?

The plan proposed by VDOT has the right through lane change into an exit-only lane while the left entrance ramp becomes the left through lane. That's some odd lane shifting that will have to take place in a short distance. It may work most of the time, but when traffic is heavy (a lot of times on that section) there could be a lot more wrecks.
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2019, 10:25:56 AM »

The bills to add fees (not a toll, says Obenshain) to travel on I-81 have been introduced in the Virginia General Assembly.

From the Roanoke Times:
Quote
Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, and Sen. Bill Carrico, R-Grayson, as well as Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, and Del. Terry Austin, R-Botetourt, submitted legislation in the Senate and House of Delegates that would authorize the Commonwealth Transportation Board to impose tolls on Virginia’s 325-mile stretch.

The initial toll would be set at 17 cents per mile for trucks and 11 cents per mile for other drivers, but is subject to increases. Toll amounts on trucks and through traffic would be cut in half between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. People living in and outside of Virginia could purchase an annual pass, which is likely to cost $25 to $30. The legislation states that the annual pass cannot exceed the cost of a full-length round-trip using the per-mile toll . Passes will not be offered to trucks.

Obenshain said the plan anticipates six overhead gantries 50 miles apart in each north-south interstate direction that will scan license plates or annual passes.

He said it’s possible for commuters to never have to pay a toll, because drivers without an annual pass will be able to travel 100 miles within 24 hours on the interstate without having to incur a toll . Drivers can have a free pass through one gantry each way on every day of the year.

“It’s easy for this to be characterized as a toll bill, but it’s not,” Obenshain said.

Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, who is opposed to tolls, filed his own bill, SB 1470, that would increase the statewide wholesale gas tax to 5 percent. Edwards said his proposal would generate $850 million annually, with $300 million set aside for I-81.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/lawmakers-unveil-bills-that-would-establish-tolls-on-interstate/article_13466ec1-70d5-505e-b625-e2b8ee81ea6e.html

The interesting comment in the article is from Obenshain, who said "he believes the scheme [100 miles of free travel] will provide less incentive for people to avoid tolls by driving instead on U.S. 11, which parallels I-81. However, he said there will be video monitoring systems to identify and penalize vehicles that exit and re-enter I-81 in order to avoid tolls." The bill calls for that monitoring:
§ 46.2-819.3:2. Video-monitoring system and automatic vehicle identification system in conjunction with all electronic toll collection, toll avoidance.

The operator of a vehicle that the Board determines is through traffic or that is subject to a through travel restriction pursuant to § 46.2-809 shall be considered to be in violation of § 46.2-819.3:1 if the operator (i) exits the interstate highway to travel on a parallel route in proximity and prior to a toll collection point and (ii) re-enters the interstate highway after the same toll collection point that demonstrates the routes traveled were selected to avoid paying the toll at such toll collection point, determined by the Board.

The Board may develop policies and related systems to identify vehicles in violation of this section.

with that last sentence leaving things pretty open ended as to how that monitoring will be done.

The Senate bill summary (with links to the full text), "SB 1716 Interstate 81; tolling, Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund" is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+SB1716

The House bill summary, "HB 2718 Interstate 81; tolling, Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund" is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+HB2718

Edward's bill, "SB 1470 Motor fuels; imposes an additional tax on sale of gasoline, etc." is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+sb1470


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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2019, 11:38:26 AM »

What doesn't make sense to you about it?

The plan proposed by VDOT has the right through lane change into an exit-only lane while the left entrance ramp becomes the left through lane. That's some odd lane shifting that will have to take place in a short distance. It may work most of the time, but when traffic is heavy (a lot of times on that section) there could be a lot more wrecks.


Was moreso asking sprjus (since he said things didn't make sense to him).

As for the proposed southbound lane configuration, there's enough traffic coming on from 581 to warrant that 581 traffic getting its own lane.  My hunch is that this is also a placeholder until the segment south of 141 gets widened.  You're right that it's not optimum, but unless/until VDOT can extend a 3rd lane south of the 141 exit or they reconfigure the 581 interchange as proposed (which would be A LOT more money than extending the 3rd lane would be), I think this is the best they can do.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2019, 01:13:15 PM »

The interesting comment in the article is from Obenshain, who said "he believes the scheme [100 miles of free travel] will provide less incentive for people to avoid tolls by driving instead on U.S. 11, which parallels I-81. However, he said there will be video monitoring systems to identify and penalize vehicles that exit and re-enter I-81 in order to avoid tolls." The bill calls for that monitoring:
§ 46.2-819.3:2. Video-monitoring system and automatic vehicle identification system in conjunction with all electronic toll collection, toll avoidance.


I've never heard of anything like this.  Why in the world would I not have the right to exit the highway and re-enter wherever I want, regardless of whether it's to avoid a toll or not?  Are there places that such monitoring is in place?  If so, is there some kind of fine applied?
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2019, 02:31:38 PM »

The interesting comment in the article is from Obenshain, who said "he believes the scheme [100 miles of free travel] will provide less incentive for people to avoid tolls by driving instead on U.S. 11, which parallels I-81. However, he said there will be video monitoring systems to identify and penalize vehicles that exit and re-enter I-81 in order to avoid tolls." The bill calls for that monitoring:
§ 46.2-819.3:2. Video-monitoring system and automatic vehicle identification system in conjunction with all electronic toll collection, toll avoidance.
I've never heard of anything like this.  Why in the world would I not have the right to exit the highway and re-enter wherever I want, regardless of whether it's to avoid a toll or not?  Are there places that such monitoring is in place?  If so, is there some kind of fine applied?

I was at the CTB meeting on Tuesday where the I-81 presentation detailed the current status of the program.  When I saw that the legislation would include penalties for shun-piking, I knew that corks would pop and fuses would blow, when people found out about this!   :-]   Bottom line is that with current technology an automated system could do this.

I talked to Nick Donohue and asked about the federal approval process for tolling I-81.  He said there are 3 different usable tolling mechanisms, the ISRRPP with its 3 pilot projects, the dynamic pricing program, and the bridge reconstruction program (as in I-95 in Rhode Island).  IOW it could be approved under one of these.

At this point I would give this about 90% probability of happening.

2019 General Assembly Update
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/jan/pres/8_legislative_update.pdf
Nick Donohue, Deputy Secretary of Transportation
January 15, 2019

Excerpts:

Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Program and Fund
• Governor Northam along with a bipartisan group of legislators announced last Tuesday legislation to fund and implement the Board’s adopted I-81 Corridor Improvement Plan
• Legislation will be introduced today
• Establishes a special, non-reverting fund for 81 Corridor supported by tolls
• Authorizes Board to impose tolls subject to caps and requirement to offer annual pass
• Revenues may only be used for identified improvements in Board adopted Plan
• Tolls expire when any bonds supported by tolls are retired
• Establishes Interstate 81 Committee of the Board with 13 voting members and 2 ex-officio
  – 5 PDC chairs 
  – 5 General Assembly members
  – 3 CTB members
  – VDOT Commissioner and DPRT Director
• Board is required to
  – Annually adopt 81 Corridor Improvement Program
  – Annually report on safety, congestion, and incidents on I-81 as well as status of projects and balance of the 81 Corridor Improvement Fund
• Allows toll rates to be increased after a period of 8 years if
  – Board updates the 81 Corridor Improvement Plan to identify new needs and prioritize potential solutions
  – Increase may not be greater than the increase in CPI since the tolls were imposed
  – The Interstate 81 Committee approves the increase
• Tolls may also be increased if necessary to support existing debt service commitments for a previously adopted Plan 
  – Increases are limited to the amount necessary to ensure appropriate debt service coverage
• Prohibits the imposition of regional taxes for the purposes of improving I-81 while tolls are being collected
• Establishes a program for users that can demonstrate a disproportionate burden
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 03:11:01 PM by Beltway »
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Scott M. Savage
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2019, 06:54:06 PM »

What doesn't make sense to you about it?

The plan proposed by VDOT has the right through lane change into an exit-only lane while the left entrance ramp becomes the left through lane. That's some odd lane shifting that will have to take place in a short distance. It may work most of the time, but when traffic is heavy (a lot of times on that section) there could be a lot more wrecks.


Was moreso asking sprjus (since he said things didn't make sense to him).

As for the proposed southbound lane configuration, there's enough traffic coming on from 581 to warrant that 581 traffic getting its own lane.  My hunch is that this is also a placeholder until the segment south of 141 gets widened.  You're right that it's not optimum, but unless/until VDOT can extend a 3rd lane south of the 141 exit or they reconfigure the 581 interchange as proposed (which would be A LOT more money than extending the 3rd lane would be), I think this is the best they can do.
What VTGoose said is what I meant.

§ 46.2-819.3:2. Video-monitoring system and automatic vehicle identification system in conjunction with all electronic toll collection, toll avoidance.

The operator of a vehicle that the Board determines is through traffic or that is subject to a through travel restriction pursuant to § 46.2-809 shall be considered to be in violation of § 46.2-819.3:1 if the operator (i) exits the interstate highway to travel on a parallel route in proximity and prior to a toll collection point and (ii) re-enters the interstate highway after the same toll collection point that demonstrates the routes traveled were selected to avoid paying the toll at such toll collection point, determined by the Board.

The Board may develop policies and related systems to identify vehicles in violation of this section.

That is absurd, and should be outright illegal. Penalizing drivers for using exit ramps.... ridiculous. For one, there's no way to prove they're avoiding the toll. What if they get off at one end of the toll collection area, stop at a mom and pop store along the shunpiking route, then hop back on I-81 at the other end of the tolling point? Also, I understand ramp tolling, that's perfectly fine. But sending a violation and a fine for using a "shunpiking" route should be illegal, and is wrong. That removes having "a free alternative" and forces interstate users to pay tolls or face a hefty fine. It could also have a negative impact to any businesses on any designated "shunpiking" route.

I'm trying to imagine the VA-168 here in Chesapeake having that system. If you exit the highway at Exit 10 or 8 and re-enter south of the toll, you receive a violation and fine in the mail. Completely unreasonable.
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sparker

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2019, 07:00:53 PM »

In all likelihood, that "shunpiking penalty" concept will be the first to be discarded; the legal challenges will be many and likely winners -- too much precedent regarding free use of the road, regardless of who actually owns them.  In any case, it'll probably be delayed by such legal actions; it just may be years -- or even decades -- before a penny of toll is collected.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2019, 07:10:14 PM »

That is absurd, and should be outright illegal. Penalizing drivers for using exit ramps.... ridiculous. For one, there's no way to prove they're avoiding the toll. What if they get off at one end of the toll collection area, stop at a mom and pop store along the shunpiking route, then hop back on I-81 at the other end of the tolling point? Also, I understand ramp tolling, that's perfectly fine.

Given the number of interchanges on I-81 (75 IIRC in Virginia) the simplest solution would be to have a gantry every 5 miles or 10 miles, that would be inexpensive and would tend to make it infeasible to avoid tolls if you wanted to make decent time.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2019, 07:31:58 PM »

That is absurd, and should be outright illegal. Penalizing drivers for using exit ramps.... ridiculous. For one, there's no way to prove they're avoiding the toll. What if they get off at one end of the toll collection area, stop at a mom and pop store along the shunpiking route, then hop back on I-81 at the other end of the tolling point? Also, I understand ramp tolling, that's perfectly fine.

Given the number of interchanges on I-81 (75 IIRC in Virginia) the simplest solution would be to have a gantry every 5 miles or 10 miles, that would be inexpensive and would tend to make it infeasible to avoid tolls if you wanted to make decent time.

Two problems there:
1. Adding a toll gantry every 5 to 10 miles would drastically increase the cost of tolling I-81
2. The tolling is suppose to target out of state and a long distance traffic, not local

I think after around a year of getting used to, shun-piking on I-81 won't really be an issue. And if people do wanna shun-pike I-81 and stop at a Mom and Pop shop along the way(helping the local economy), I have no problem with that.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2019, 07:52:39 PM »

That is absurd, and should be outright illegal. Penalizing drivers for using exit ramps.... ridiculous. For one, there's no way to prove they're avoiding the toll. What if they get off at one end of the toll collection area, stop at a mom and pop store along the shunpiking route, then hop back on I-81 at the other end of the tolling point? Also, I understand ramp tolling, that's perfectly fine.

Given the number of interchanges on I-81 (75 IIRC in Virginia) the simplest solution would be to have a gantry every 5 miles or 10 miles, that would be inexpensive and would tend to make it infeasible to avoid tolls if you wanted to make decent time.
The more gantries, the higher the costs. They're already estimating close to $50 million for the 6 toll gantries alone and collections, etc. Also, it goes back to the local/thru situation. You penalize locals if you do this.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #115 on: January 17, 2019, 07:56:19 PM »

Seriously, that idea to prohibit people from using exits as they so choose is absolutely draconian and outrageous.

• Tolls expire when any bonds supported by tolls are retired
Any?  So if they issue 10 bonds, and pay 1 off, the tolls are gone?

That is absurd, and should be outright illegal. Penalizing drivers for using exit ramps.... ridiculous. For one, there's no way to prove they're avoiding the toll. What if they get off at one end of the toll collection area, stop at a mom and pop store along the shunpiking route, then hop back on I-81 at the other end of the tolling point? Also, I understand ramp tolling, that's perfectly fine.

Given the number of interchanges on I-81 (75 IIRC in Virginia) the simplest solution would be to have a gantry every 5 miles or 10 miles, that would be inexpensive and would tend to make it infeasible to avoid tolls if you wanted to make decent time.

Two problems there:
1. Adding a toll gantry every 5 to 10 miles would drastically increase the cost of tolling I-81
2. The tolling is suppose to target out of state and a long distance traffic, not local

I think after around a year of getting used to, shun-piking on I-81 won't really be an issue. And if people do wanna shun-pike I-81 and stop at a Mom and Pop shop along the way(helping the local economy), I have no problem with that.
They could still accomplish the same ends even with more frequent gantries.  It might take more complicated code, but it would certainly be doable.  The Thruway managed with its annual permit plan holders, for example (for $88/year, the first 30 miles of all Thruway trips are free, with a $0.65 surcharge for crossing the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge if applicable).  Although as I mentioned on the US 301 thread, I despise tolling plans that specifically target out of state motorists.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #116 on: January 17, 2019, 09:27:33 PM »

Given the number of interchanges on I-81 (75 IIRC in Virginia) the simplest solution would be to have a gantry every 5 miles or 10 miles, that would be inexpensive and would tend to make it infeasible to avoid tolls if you wanted to make decent time.
The more gantries, the higher the costs. They're already estimating close to $50 million for the 6 toll gantries alone and collections, etc. Also, it goes back to the local/thru situation. You penalize locals if you do this.

Whaa??  $8 million per gantry?  No way.  Probably not more than a couple hundred thousand per gantry.

With frequent enough gantries, there would be an electronic record that would clearly differentiate a local user from a thru user, and besides there will be an annual pass system for locals, so they should be unrestricted in how the use the highway.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 09:29:41 PM by Beltway »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #117 on: January 17, 2019, 09:33:04 PM »

Quote from: vdeane
• Tolls expire when any bonds supported by tolls are retired
Any?  So if they issue 10 bonds, and pay 1 off, the tolls are gone?

If they build it out to 6 or more lanes on the entire route, that will probably take at least 10 years and there will be more bond issues, probably $8 billion or more, and it will be a loooong time before all the bonds are paid off.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2019, 09:40:31 PM »

The "shunpiking penalty" thing is absurd. I have no clue how the courts would view it, but it seems like a stupid way to deal with the issue. Why not just toll the next interchange or two to either side of the tolling points to reduce the advantage one might gain from exiting?

Other thing is, normally with toll roads or toll crossings there's a sign telling you when you hit the last exit before a toll. If you impose a shunpiking penalty, then wouldn't the Commonwealth want to AVOID posting that information? That is, you post the "last exit before toll" to allow people who don't want to pay the toll to exit, right? If you're going to try to find a way to charge them anyway, then not only do you not want to post the sign, but arguably the sign becomes misleading, because "last exit before toll" instead becomes "if you exit, you'll pay more."
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2019, 09:54:17 PM »

It is pending legislation.  If you don't like some part of it then contact the sponsors and tell them.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2019, 10:11:01 PM »

I concur with sentiments strongly against the shunpiking penalty. Besides, as mentioned, there's absolutely no way of knowing for a fact whether someone is actually "shunpiking" or not. There's the stopping at a restaurant example that was mentioned, and other things, like what if someone is crossing through Virginia on a road trip, but they want to take a quick detour being off the interstate briefly to visit family in the area. When I was a young kid (before she passed), we would always visit my great aunt a little ways off I-75 in Macon whenever we were on roadtrips coming back from Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. We would typically get off on one exit, then when we were done, get back on I-75 at the next exit. And then all the other possible, countless, similar scenarios like that.

There are much more humane and efficient ways to ensure toll revenue is effectively collected than that. As has been noted, there could be exit ramp tolls, or they could try to install many toll gantries at the most efficient price of installation possible - and even putting tolls on the ramps of the exits in between a significant toll gantry on the interstate could be acceptable in my opinion. But these funds do not need to be spent on the "shunpike spying device."

I was really excited about Interstate 81 in Virginia being tolled (and still am, so long as this specific thing is not followed through with), so that it could be widened and worked on, which it certainly desperately needs. I don't want this to soil this project that really has so much potential, and could do a lot of good in the long-run.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 10:14:41 PM by adventurernumber1 »
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2019, 10:12:58 PM »

The bills to add fees (not a toll, says Obenshain) to travel on I-81 have been introduced in the Virginia General Assembly.

From the Roanoke Times:
Quote
Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, and Sen. Bill Carrico, R-Grayson, as well as Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, and Del. Terry Austin, R-Botetourt, submitted legislation in the Senate and House of Delegates that would authorize the Commonwealth Transportation Board to impose tolls on Virginia’s 325-mile stretch.

The initial toll would be set at 17 cents per mile for trucks and 11 cents per mile for other drivers, but is subject to increases. Toll amounts on trucks and through traffic would be cut in half between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. People living in and outside of Virginia could purchase an annual pass, which is likely to cost $25 to $30. The legislation states that the annual pass cannot exceed the cost of a full-length round-trip using the per-mile toll . Passes will not be offered to trucks.

Obenshain said the plan anticipates six overhead gantries 50 miles apart in each north-south interstate direction that will scan license plates or annual passes.

He said it’s possible for commuters to never have to pay a toll, because drivers without an annual pass will be able to travel 100 miles within 24 hours on the interstate without having to incur a toll . Drivers can have a free pass through one gantry each way on every day of the year.

“It’s easy for this to be characterized as a toll bill, but it’s not,” Obenshain said.

Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, who is opposed to tolls, filed his own bill, SB 1470, that would increase the statewide wholesale gas tax to 5 percent. Edwards said his proposal would generate $850 million annually, with $300 million set aside for I-81.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/lawmakers-unveil-bills-that-would-establish-tolls-on-interstate/article_13466ec1-70d5-505e-b625-e2b8ee81ea6e.html

The interesting comment in the article is from Obenshain, who said "he believes the scheme [100 miles of free travel] will provide less incentive for people to avoid tolls by driving instead on U.S. 11, which parallels I-81. However, he said there will be video monitoring systems to identify and penalize vehicles that exit and re-enter I-81 in order to avoid tolls." The bill calls for that monitoring:
§ 46.2-819.3:2. Video-monitoring system and automatic vehicle identification system in conjunction with all electronic toll collection, toll avoidance.

The operator of a vehicle that the Board determines is through traffic or that is subject to a through travel restriction pursuant to § 46.2-809 shall be considered to be in violation of § 46.2-819.3:1 if the operator (i) exits the interstate highway to travel on a parallel route in proximity and prior to a toll collection point and (ii) re-enters the interstate highway after the same toll collection point that demonstrates the routes traveled were selected to avoid paying the toll at such toll collection point, determined by the Board.

The Board may develop policies and related systems to identify vehicles in violation of this section.

with that last sentence leaving things pretty open ended as to how that monitoring will be done.

The Senate bill summary (with links to the full text), "SB 1716 Interstate 81; tolling, Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund" is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+SB1716

The House bill summary, "HB 2718 Interstate 81; tolling, Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund" is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+HB2718

Edward's bill, "SB 1470 Motor fuels; imposes an additional tax on sale of gasoline, etc." is here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+sb1470
Penalties for exiting? Where is Virginia, North Korea?
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2019, 10:18:09 PM »

Are you sure that the "penalty" is not equal to the toll itself?
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2019, 10:24:30 PM »

Are you sure that the "penalty" is not equal to the toll itself?
It's been mentioned that it could be a "toll violation" fine, which is way higher.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2019, 11:23:02 PM »

Are you sure that the "penalty" is not equal to the toll itself?
It's been mentioned that it could be a "toll violation" fine, which is way higher.

If they have the technology to legally and fairly determine if someone is deliberately avoiding a toll, they could simply go ahead and charge the toll and leave it at that.
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