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Author Topic: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state  (Read 3716 times)

oscar

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #125 on: January 19, 2019, 05:45:21 PM »

Daniel Tosh tried this as a stunt a bunch of years ago on the Presidential Petition page. It was quickly pulled down. He had these people beat by a long time.

Maybe it was pulled down because the President can't grant petitions relating to statehood. Congress, and the legislatures of any affected states, would have to take the lead, since their consent is required.

Was the Dakota merger petition addressed to (at least) the legislatures of North Dakota and South Dakota? That would be better as a matter of form, unless the proposal was just a joke from the outset.
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vdeane

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #126 on: January 19, 2019, 10:58:41 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #127 on: January 19, 2019, 11:22:44 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #128 on: January 19, 2019, 11:43:25 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.

This is a media thing. Even if the President says he won't say anything, the media will say "President remains mum on (subject), fueling speculation that he will (make up random idea). Then the public gets all pissed off anyway..
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vdeane

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #129 on: January 20, 2019, 09:26:33 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.
A lot of government work, both for elected officials and career civil servants, is convincing someone you have no authority over to do something.  Isn't that the idea of starting a dialog?  To broach the issue with the people who DO have the power to do something?  President Carter had no authority over Israel or Palestine, yet that didn't stop him from inviting the leaders to Camp David.
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adventurernumber1

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #130 on: January 20, 2019, 09:37:14 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.
A lot of government work, both for elected officials and career civil servants, is convincing someone you have no authority over to do something.  Isn't that the idea of starting a dialog?  To broach the issue with the people who DO have the power to do something?  President Carter had no authority over Israel or Palestine, yet that didn't stop him from inviting the leaders to Camp David.

I'd agree with that - even if the president has zero power in making that final decision, why must they be censored and strictly forbidden from making suggestions, or simply coming up with an idea that they think might work best. It doesn't mean they are the one implementing it, or that it actually has to happen (and 99% of the people could even think it was bogus), but as you say, it is simply having a dialogue. Separation of powers is good and essential, and it has been ingrained in the idea of the American government since the Constitution was created - but I don't think that simply making suggestions or talking about these issues is an over-reach of the President's power - I just see it as different parts of the government working together to try to find a solution and a plan. It may be other sections of the government (and not the president) that actually has the power and final-decision-making in this area, but I don't see why they simply can't just discuss it together. I don't care who the president is, I think it might be reasonable for them to at least have that right to simply converse about the topic.


« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 09:39:23 PM by adventurernumber1 »
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hbelkins

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #131 on: January 21, 2019, 04:24:48 PM »

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.

I disagree with your opinion that a president shouldn't offer an opinion on public policy matters, and find your "borderline-impeachable" comment laughable and absurd on its face. I think a president has an absolute duty to weigh in on matters up for public debate, even if he or she (and thank God that's not the case right now) has no say-so in the matter, if the president is so inclined.

The House is currently considering the censure of one of its members. Why shouldn't the president say he agrees or disagrees with that decision? Some in the Senate, which has no say whatsoever in the matter, have weighed in.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #132 on: January 21, 2019, 05:31:06 PM »

A president could, however, start a dialog between the states and Congress.  Or just say "it isn't happening" - Obama's policy was that the petition would receive a response, not that it would actually be implemented.

A President has no say-so whatsoever when it comes to adding states or proposing Constitutional amendments.  Only the states and Congress have authority in these matters.  In fact, my feeling is that a President would be smart to keep his mouth shut, and have no opinion whatsoever.  His input would be a borderline-impeachable case of Presidential abuse of power.
A lot of government work, both for elected officials and career civil servants, is convincing someone you have no authority over to do something.  Isn't that the idea of starting a dialog?  To broach the issue with the people who DO have the power to do something?  President Carter had no authority over Israel or Palestine, yet that didn't stop him from inviting the leaders to Camp David.

I'd agree with that - even if the president has zero power in making that final decision, why must they be censored and strictly forbidden from making suggestions, or simply coming up with an idea that they think might work best. It doesn't mean they are the one implementing it, or that it actually has to happen (and 99% of the people could even think it was bogus), but as you say, it is simply having a dialogue. Separation of powers is good and essential, and it has been ingrained in the idea of the American government since the Constitution was created - but I don't think that simply making suggestions or talking about these issues is an over-reach of the President's power - I just see it as different parts of the government working together to try to find a solution and a plan. It may be other sections of the government (and not the president) that actually has the power and final-decision-making in this area, but I don't see why they simply can't just discuss it together. I don't care who the president is, I think it might be reasonable for them to at least have that right to simply converse about the topic.
Yeah, that's my opinion to. The president should sort of be the head guy in the government (but not a dictator), leading the whole thing and giving his/her opinions on important matters. A good president should care about this stuff.
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vdeane

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #133 on: January 21, 2019, 08:16:34 PM »

Not to mention that a large part of what presidential candidates promise to do is actually a promise to get Congress to do something for them.  Increasingly, the Congressional agenda is set by the President.  The days of the President being a "chief bureaucrat" who also did foreign policy but left domestic policy to Congress are long gone (not that they every really existed in the first place).
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Alps

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Re: Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state
« Reply #134 on: January 22, 2019, 12:26:12 PM »

Please limit discussion of presidential powers to the topic of petitions, nothing about the current administration or any previous ones.

 


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