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Author Topic: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route  (Read 3633 times)

ilpt4u

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 03:17:20 PM »

I-55 in Missouri and I-270/I-255 in Missouri and Illinois use Memphis, skipping AR

Conversely, I-55 and I-240 in Memphis, TN use St Louis, also skipping AR
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 04:07:18 PM by ilpt4u »
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1995hoo

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 03:29:32 PM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.

Still is. It says “New York City” underneath “Baltimore” and it’s northbound at Exit 161. Further north prior to Exit 166 a different sign refers to “NY–NJ,” but they’re not really being used in the traditional control city sense.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 03:43:23 PM »

Modern signage for southbound I-95 (Maine Turnpike) include "Boston" as a control city, skipping over New Hampshire. An example on the Falmouth Spur (unsigned I-495): https://goo.gl/maps/p2a9LBrYTGK2

Considering its length through the Granite State is a hair over 16-miles, I can see why no town from there was chosen, although one could argue using "Portsmouth" as a control city.
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kphoger

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM »

STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
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Rothman

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 04:54:53 PM »

US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.

(Really?)
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kphoger

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2019, 05:00:06 PM »



US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.

US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho

US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.

Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.

(Really?)

Yellowstone is not between Broadus and Belle Fourche.  The 20-mile segment that corco mentioned, and to which Roadgeekteen replied, really doesn't go through anything of significance.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM »

STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2019, 05:42:49 PM »

STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
St Louis is never a control for I-57, but when transvering IL on I-57, from the South, I-57 North multiplexes with I-64 West around Mt Vernon, with Controls of Chicago and St Louis. From the North, I-57 South multiplexes with I-70 West around Effingham, with Controls of Memphis and St Louis

Long story short, travelers on I-57 encounter BGSs with routes to St Louis. And when on the Multiplexed segments, heading for the STL, one would be expected to follow the route to your destination/direction of travel
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1995hoo

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM »

What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
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Laplace

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2019, 08:01:04 PM »

What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.

Some ones I can think of:

I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.

When this was first posted in the 1960s (?), Las Cruces was a much smaller city than it is now. The city population is over 100,000 and Doña Ana County probably adds that much more. Plus, being an Interstate highway junction, I think it is the next city east of Tucson that meets control city criteria.

Las Cruces has certainly grown quite a bit in recent years, from what I have heard from long time New Mexicans. I've only been in NM for 4 years, so I don't have much input on that. However, I can say that Arizona tends to skip over towns that aren't major cities. The also sign I-8 East for both Phoenix and Tucson, despite neither of them being served by I-8. They also sign I-8 West for San Diego the entire route, skipping over Yuma, which has a metro population of over 200k people now. Arizona seems to have a policy to only use major cities as control cities, unless there is no other option. Flagstaff and Nogales are the exception to this, however. I do believe that Las Cruces meets control city criteria, I just don't know if Arizona would vouch for it since they only like to use major cities as control cities and El Paso is 50 miles away.

New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
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kphoger

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2019, 08:09:34 PM »



STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.

I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.

You're confusing me even more.

Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.

I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis.  As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57.  The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take from I-57 to reach Saint Louis.  I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70.  After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?

Exit signage along I-57 shown below...

Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex:  [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex:  [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64:  [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]

Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex:  [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex:  [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70:  [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]



What exactly is a morrist, anyway?

I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL.  I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis:  by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM »

But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2019, 11:03:32 PM »

But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Yes there is. First is on mainline I-24, about 1 mile or so before route termination @ I-57

Second is on mainline I-57, just north of the I-24 end, after I-24 traffic has joined I-57

Crediting billburmaster.com for both photos

The first BGS is really the only IDOT/IL acknowledgement of I-24 West having a Control of St Louis
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GaryV

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2019, 06:28:44 AM »

What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:

Someone who follows the teachings of Morr, obviously.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2019, 10:56:35 AM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
But the interchange is done so now it technically does.
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kphoger

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2019, 01:27:51 PM »

But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.

Besides the fact that there is (as already mentioned by ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2019, 01:38:06 PM »

But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.

Besides the fact that there is (as already mentioned by ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?

I misinterpreted this post below.

I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:14:29 PM by mwb1848 »
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2019, 06:39:49 PM »

I’m not sure Texarkana would fit the spirit of the thread anyway, but my assumption is AR is the one being referred to because the route itself is entirely in Arkansas except for that stupid little bit that will clip into Texas (as a result I could see it being a long time before that bit is built; you think this will be any priority for Texas to build? Noooope.)
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2019, 12:42:29 AM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.

This would be legally impossible since cities are nothing but subdivisions of states. States can create and dissolve cities as they wish.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
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