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Author Topic: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route  (Read 2621 times)

jeffandnicole

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
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Road Hog

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2019, 09:02:17 AM »

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.
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Beltway

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.

Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.

Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.

Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
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1995hoo

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2019, 12:21:01 PM »

Northbound I-59 in Alabama has signs using Chattanooga (skipping Georgia). This may be notable because not only do these signs skip a state, they also refer to a city that’s on a different Interstate—I-59 ends in Georgia and you use I-24 to reach Chattanooga.
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abefroman329

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2019, 12:33:25 PM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
Until 2018, when the gap in I-95 in NJ was completed, there was no "real" route.  As 1995hoo rightly points out below, there is still no "real" route.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 01:45:27 PM by abefroman329 »
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1995hoo

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2019, 12:40:45 PM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.

The “real route” is whatever route a given person chooses to use at a given time. If I opt for I-270 to US-15 to Harrisburg, then I-81 and I-78 to New York, it’s no less a “real route” than the Jersey Turnpike route many people think is the only option.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2019, 01:13:09 PM »

On I-70 and at the US 15 split near Frederick, MD, Charles Town, WV is used as a control for US 340.  US 340 passes through a little sliver of VA between MD and WV.

Like I-195, I-95 uses New York as a control, as well as I-295 South from RI 37 East.  OHDOT also uses it on I-80 in Youngstown, which is 3 states away.  Chicago is used as a control on the Ohio Turnpike from Toledo west, which skips IN.
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Beltway

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2019, 01:40:20 PM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.

Where is the gap in I-95?  PA completed the last missing link last year.
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Scott M. Savage
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Beltway

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2019, 01:41:49 PM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.

It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
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Scott M. Savage
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hbelkins

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2019, 03:16:22 PM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.

It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.

It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.
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Beltway

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM »

I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted, but for the casual motorist it could be either or both Bluefields.
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Scott M. Savage
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US 89

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM »

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2019, 06:27:23 PM »

In similar fashion that I-95 northbound in MD skips over DE, PA, & NJ in favor of New York on its signs; in eastern OH, many ramp signs for I-80 eastbound also completely skip over both NJ & PA and list New York.  However, once in PA; that practice is dropped.
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Ben114

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2019, 07:15:43 PM »

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.
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Bickendan

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2019, 07:26:49 PM »

What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
A morris dancer?
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empirestate

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2019, 07:29:24 PM »

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.

The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.

The route implicit from the control city, is my point.
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roadman65

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2019, 08:02:06 PM »

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro.  That is in the same state and there is no issue to there being another Putney being nearby like Washington, PA on signs within Pennsylvania, particuraly I-70 as Washington, DC is nearby and connected via I-270 at Frederick, MD.
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sprjus4

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2019, 08:47:18 PM »

I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.

I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM »

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

The worst is/was pre-MUTCD when the states were signed with a capital first letter and a small second letter.  MassDOT and RIDOT would sign Hartford as "Hartford Ct", which suggests there is street named Hartford Court off that exit (it was compounded at the I-295/US 6 interchange in Johnston by the fact that Exit 9C exits to Hartford Avenue, but at least those have been corrected.  I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too. 

One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.  The use of "New York" as a control on I-90 West in a couple of places in Boston (near the Hynes Convention Center and formerly at the 128 junction) is kind of ambiguous, since you would follow I-90 West to a point to get to both NY City and NY state.  In the case of the former, you would have to travel through CT to get there, unless you took the Mass Pike to the Berkshire Spur and either went down the Taconic or the Thruway (the latter may even include a jog into NJ if you take 17/80 (or 4)/95, or the Palisades to the GWB).     
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM »

One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2019, 08:23:25 AM »

I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too. 

If 2-letter state abbreviations had existed before 1820, maybe we would have seen it.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM »

I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.

I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
It doesn't actually skip a state, but there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM »

there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there.

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
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Re: Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM »

there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there.

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
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