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Author Topic: What if we took away all regulatory and warning signs, traffic lights, etc.  (Read 1253 times)

RobbieL2415

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Drive "old school". Follow all the basic statues in the vehicle code, like yielding to traffic on the right at uncontrolled intersections, etc.
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Drive "old school". Follow all the basic statues in the vehicle code, like yielding to traffic on the right at uncontrolled intersections, etc.

What about weight limits, height limits, ...
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jeffandnicole

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Drive "old school". Follow all the basic statues in the vehicle code, like yielding to traffic on the right at uncontrolled intersections, etc.

You mean the entire reason why they came up with the rules and signage in the first place? There were plenty of crashes back in the old school days!
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CtrlAltDel

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What if we took away all regulatory and warning signs, traffic lights, etc.

Not to be too glib, but people would die, and in high numbers.
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Roadgeekteen

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CNGL-Leudimin

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I believe there is a Dutch village with no signs at all :sombrero:. Apparently they do pretty well.
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Roadgeekteen

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I believe there is a Dutch village with no signs at all :sombrero:. Apparently they do pretty well.
That's a small village. Image NYC with no signs.
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kphoger

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I believe there is a Dutch village with no signs at all :sombrero:. Apparently they do pretty well.

That's a small village. Image NYC with no signs.

Yeah, a village of 1000 residents is not a good example to go off of.  I also read that the town removed traffic fines as well.
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Brandon

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I believe there is a Dutch village with no signs at all :sombrero:. Apparently they do pretty well.
That's a small village. Image NYC with no signs.

It'd be like Chicago...with signs.
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empirestate

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Taking the OP literally, the responses so far are probably pretty apt—there would be chaos.

But if, instead of taking them away, we could turn back time and see how things develop without them ever having been implemented in the first place, how would the answers be different?
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formulanone

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Road apples...everywhere.

Rural areas would be okay, but I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Cities and suburbia would be mentally exhausting. That fact that everyone doesn't outright ignore each and every warning is sometimes one of those things is kind of amazing.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 02:56:40 PM by formulanone »
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sparker

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I'd start looking online for used Hummers and shops that could add reinforcing plates to such!  And the usually-submersed "evil sparker" side of me might even consider adding some offensive weaponry! 
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GreenLanternCorps

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sparker

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^^^^^^^^
Whassat?  Mad Max, Texas-style?
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GreenLanternCorps

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^^^^^^^^
Whassat?  Mad Max, Texas-style?

A game about welll armed cars fighting on freeways, so yes.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2795/car-wars

“Drive offensively”

« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 11:29:22 PM by GreenLanternCorps »
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kphoger

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.
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RobbieL2415

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.
That seems worse. You have constant gridlock in the middle of the intersection.
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sparker

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“Drive offensively”

A credo adhered to by more than enough drivers in these parts, thank you!
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kphoger

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.

That seems worse. You have constant gridlock in the middle of the intersection.

No.  At a four-way stop, everybody has to stop, whether there is a vehicle in the way or not.  At an uncontrolled intersection, you only have to stop if someone else should be going first—in which case you don't stop in the middle of the intersection anyway.  I see you live in a part of the country that doesn't have uncontrolled intersections.  Trust me as someone whose house is literally between two of them, they work fine.
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NoGoodNamesAvailable

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.

That seems worse. You have constant gridlock in the middle of the intersection.

No.  At a four-way stop, everybody has to stop, whether there is a vehicle in the way or not.  At an uncontrolled intersection, you only have to stop if someone else should be going first—in which case you don't stop in the middle of the intersection anyway.  I see you live in a part of the country that doesn't have uncontrolled intersections.  Trust me as someone whose house is literally between two of them, they work fine.

Curious because I live in an area with very few uncontrolled intersections: do people actually abide by basic right-of-way rules? Applying the yield to the right rule is pretty unintuitive at T intersections.
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kphoger

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.

That seems worse. You have constant gridlock in the middle of the intersection.

No.  At a four-way stop, everybody has to stop, whether there is a vehicle in the way or not.  At an uncontrolled intersection, you only have to stop if someone else should be going first—in which case you don't stop in the middle of the intersection anyway.  I see you live in a part of the country that doesn't have uncontrolled intersections.  Trust me as someone whose house is literally between two of them, they work fine.

Curious because I live in an area with very few uncontrolled intersections: do people actually abide by basic right-of-way rules? Applying the yield to the right rule is pretty unintuitive at T intersections.

In my experience, a lot people at four-way uncontrolled intersections assume one of them is the "through street" and don't even bother slowing down or yielding at intersections if they're on that street.  Likewise, a lot of drivers on the other street stop and yield even when they should be the ones to proceed.  It frustrates me sometimes, but it doesn't seem to cause any issues in real life.

As for uncontrolled T intersections, yield to the right is not generally how those are supposed to function.  All states whose laws I'm familiar with treat an uncontrolled T intersection as having an implied yield sign for the terminating street.
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NoGoodNamesAvailable

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Curious because I live in an area with very few uncontrolled intersections: do people actually abide by basic right-of-way rules? Applying the yield to the right rule is pretty unintuitive at T intersections.

In my experience, a lot people at four-way uncontrolled intersections assume one of them is the "through street" and don't even bother slowing down or yielding at intersections if they're on that street.  Likewise, a lot of drivers on the other street stop and yield even when they should be the ones to proceed.  It frustrates me sometimes, but it doesn't seem to cause any issues in real life.

As for uncontrolled T intersections, yield to the right is not generally how those are supposed to function.  All states whose laws I'm familiar with treat an uncontrolled T intersection as having an implied yield sign for the terminating street.

This is the only relevant provision I could find in the Uniform Vehicle Code:
Quote
S 11–401—Vehicle approaching or entering intersection
(a) When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different highways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right of way to the vehicle on the right.
(b) The right of way rule declared in paragraph (a) is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this chapter. [Elsewhere, this seems to only refer to orders that authorize yield/stop signs to be installed on side roads to a designated road]

I'm more familiar with the NYS VTL and I'm almost certain normal right-of-way rules apply at T-intersections in NY. Although I don't doubt you that some states are different.

The MUTCD says YIELD or STOP signs should be used at "an intersection of a less important road with a main road where application of the normal right-of-way rule would not be expected to provide reasonable compliance with the law," which is interesting wording. Crash potential and reasonable compliance with the law are different things. If people incorrectly but reliably follow the same wrong rules at an intersection, I wouldn't say that's necessarily unsafe, but the MUTCD seems to think that situation would warrant yield or stop control.
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RobbieL2415

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I think having to treat every junction as a four-way stop would be tiresome, assuming traffic and vehicle counts stay the same. Sure, it would be nice to roll though a few stop signs to keep my car in 2nd gear, without fear of incurring a ticket, but there would be the idea that a vehicle on the other side also isn't paying attention.

Uncontrolled intersections are not to be treated as four-way stops.  They are essentially four-way yields.  Roll through uncontrolled intersections in second gear all you want, with no fear of incurring a ticket.

That seems worse. You have constant gridlock in the middle of the intersection.

No.  At a four-way stop, everybody has to stop, whether there is a vehicle in the way or not.  At an uncontrolled intersection, you only have to stop if someone else should be going first—in which case you don't stop in the middle of the intersection anyway.  I see you live in a part of the country that doesn't have uncontrolled intersections.  Trust me as someone whose house is literally between two of them, they work fine.
Well, technically we do have them, mainly in parking lots.  But no one in their right mind probably knows the uncontrolled intersection law.  Hell, most probably don't even know that at a an uncontrolled T intersection only yielding is required by traffic on the ending road.
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Hell, most probably don't even know that at a an uncontrolled T intersection only yielding is required by traffic on the ending road.

Most people would treat the ending road as lower priority than the continuing road, and they would only slow down while turning (instead of stopping) if there was nobody nearby, even if they don't know that's how the law actually works.
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kphoger

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Interesting.  I didn't realize that wasn't part of the UVC.  I guess I simply assumed that it must have descended from there without actually checking.

For what it's worth, here is the law in Illinois pertaining to uncontrolled T intersections:

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/11-901.01
Vehicles approaching or entering a "T" intersection. The driver of a vehicle approaching the intersection of a highway from a highway which terminates at the intersection, not otherwise regulated by this Act or controlled by traffic control signs or signals, shall stop, yield, and grant the privilege of immediate use of the intersection to another vehicle which has entered the intersection from the non-terminating highway or is approaching the intersection on the non-terminating highway in such proximity as to constitute a hazard and after stopping may proceed when the driver may safely enter the intersection without interference or collision with the traffic using the non-terminating highway.



Hell, most probably don't even know that at a an uncontrolled T intersection only yielding is required by traffic on the ending road.

To me, it's common sense.  If your road ends, you give way to the one that doesn't.
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