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Author Topic: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?  (Read 2932 times)

NE2

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 02:13:50 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 02:41:39 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
Many business routes would qualify, many are concurrent with state routes.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 02:56:24 PM »

400 should be. 90% of the route is useless.

Strongly disagree.  I get it that people don't like the number, but US-400 is a major corridor with heavy long-distance traffic.  Its number was also originally intended to be temporary, as the corridor was anticipated to be upgraded to an Interstate at some point in the future when it was first designated.  If, on the other hand, you're referring to the fact that a lot of it is duplexed, then your math is way off.  About 30% 35% of the route is not duplexed with any other route number.

Of those segments that are not duplexed, here are the AADTs:

2010-2520 — K-34 to US-54 (Mullinville)
2010-11300 — Dodge City to US-54 (Mullinville)
 4000-5070 — US-54 (Haverhill) to K-99
 3460-4690 — K-99 to US-75 (Neodesha)
 3570-5700 — US-75 to K-171 (Pittsburg)
 1570-1610 — US-69-Alt (Baxter Springs) to US-166

By way of comparison, US-54 doesn't top AADT 4500 anywhere east of El Dorado.  And commercial traffic accounts for roughly one-fourth of the traffic on US-400 for the majority of its route.


Edited for accuracy.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 02:45:42 PM by kphoger »
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NE2

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 03:46:47 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
I can't be arsed to find out what's special about this one.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 04:36:05 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
I can't be arsed to explain what's special about this one.
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CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2019, 04:46:37 PM »

US 33, 35, 42, 57 and 73. At least according to froggie :bigass:.
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GaryV

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2019, 04:54:15 PM »

...

If I was in charge, I'd decommission or truncate a whole bunch of routes. There's no need for US 11 to exist, since it's paralleled by a interstate for most of its length. (If they can do away with US 25 in Ohio and Michigan, or US 21 in West Virginia and Ohio, why keep US 11.)

...

Why keep US 25 north of Corbin?  And why not do away with US 25W entirely?
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2019, 06:29:46 PM »

I really think US-46 should be downgraded to a state highway. I can't believe that it's still active and hasn't been decommissioned yet. For one thing it's the shortest non-spur US highway and is only in New Jersey. Maybe not even a state highway but a local road considering it runs real close with I-80.
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2019, 06:42:49 PM »

I'm thinking that 46, 91, 159, 181, 211, 223, 266, and/or 311 might be at risk. (I don't see the purpose of 159 myself). Also a truncation of 85.
The purpose of US-159 is for through traffic on US 59 to bypass Atchison, Kansas and Saint Joseph, Missouri. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me because a US highway spur route usually only connects with it's parent route once but in this case US-159 starts and ends at US-59.

I don't think US-223 is really at risk. It serves a purpose and connects two US highways. It could perhaps be downgraded to a state highway. I think M-223 would be fine for it. The only reason I can think that it follows US-23 into Ohio is so it can grab that second state, Ohio ends US-223 the first chance they get. And Ohio does have it signed too, https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7237414,-83.688943,3a,15y,199.04h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sibOnT3y8aZophLYYP84Gww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 however there is only one sign and no end sign for US-223 just a mention of OH-51 and OH-184.

US-223 is also signed northbound in Ohio https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7222989,-83.6884848,3a,75y,357.9h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suPNSV5cEVcHe6x2kUEmRAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2019, 06:46:19 PM »

US 33, 35, 42, 57 and 73. At least according to froggie :bigass:.
US-33 simply because it's a violator for it's entire route. I guess US-35 is for most of it's route too. US-42 should be a north-south route. US-57 is kinda lame using that number simply because of the Federal highway in Mexico. US-73 doesn't make much sense. I guess I don't disagree.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 06:52:23 PM by Flint1979 »
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2019, 06:47:07 PM »

I really think US-46 should be downgraded to a state highway. I can't believe that it's still active and hasn't been decommissioned yet. For one thing it's the shortest non-spur US highway and is only in New Jersey. Maybe not even a state highway but a local road considering it runs real close with I-80.

Can we at least get it to not end in the middle of the GW Bridge? I could go for that.
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2019, 06:54:22 PM »

I really think US-46 should be downgraded to a state highway. I can't believe that it's still active and hasn't been decommissioned yet. For one thing it's the shortest non-spur US highway and is only in New Jersey. Maybe not even a state highway but a local road considering it runs real close with I-80.

Can we at least get it to not end in the middle of the GW Bridge? I could go for that.
Yeah that's just dumb. I'm guessing it's so it can touch another state since it doesn't even go to the state line on the western end.
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2019, 06:59:06 PM »

Honestly I don't see why US-73 isn't just a spur of US-75. It historically went south of Kansas City into Oklahoma ending in Atoka. US-69 took over most of that route.
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2019, 07:10:46 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
Many business routes would qualify, many are concurrent with state routes.
In Michigan the business routes are usually concurrent with state routes for only part of their routes. To have a Business Loop or Spur is telling you that you are going to be able to reconnect with the parent highway at the other end of the route.

I'll give ya a couple crazy one's. I-75's Business Spur in Bay City, MI starts at the eastern terminus of US-10 and western terminus of M-25. All it does is runs along the freeway, the freeway ends before you get into Bay City and the Business Spur runs on a set of one way streets. It then crosses the Saginaw River, goes up to M-84, makes a left and then makes another left back onto M-25 and heads back towards I-75 on the same segment. So all it really does is goes into downtown Bay City and turns around.

St. Johns Business Loop or Spur whatever you wanna call that one just follows old US-27 and doesn't ever reconnect with US-127. US-127 runs on a bypass of St. Johns and only connects with it on the northern end. There are three exits off US-127 where you could reconnect before the Business route ends. It's signed as Business US-127.
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plain

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2019, 07:29:38 PM »

Quote from: hbelkins
And I really think the useless concurrency of US 17 with US 50 needs to be eliminated.

Or extended north replacing US 522 from Winchester.  That would be another option.

This. At least a piece of US 17 would actually be west of US 11.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2019, 07:38:01 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
Many business routes would qualify, many are concurrent with state routes.
In Michigan the business routes are usually concurrent with state routes for only part of their routes. To have a Business Loop or Spur is telling you that you are going to be able to reconnect with the parent highway at the other end of the route.

Another reason is that business routes are less useful to steer travelers to off-freeway businesses, now that logo signs and smartphones often serve that function.

Many business routes have faded away on their own, even if not formally decommissioned. At least in California, the lifecycle seems to be (1) business route is set up to placate a community pissed off at being bypassed by a new freeway; (2) community adapts to the new freeway (often by businesses relocating); (3) signage on the business route deteriorates or disappears; and (4) the state DOT notices that the community no longer cares about its business route, and removes freeway signage pointing to the business route.
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NE2

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2019, 07:58:10 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans is all freeway or future frontage roads, and is part of future I-49.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2019, 08:40:41 PM »

US routes should be important interstate (small "i") highways that link areas and corridors not served by Interstate (capital "I") highways. There probably should be concurrencies and renumberings to keep highways above the 300-mile length guideline.

If I was in charge, I'd decommission or truncate a whole bunch of routes. There's no need for US 11 to exist, since it's paralleled by a interstate for most of its length. (If they can do away with US 25 in Ohio and Michigan, or US 21 in West Virginia and Ohio, why keep US 11.) And what major corridor does US 522 serve between Culpeper and its southern terminus?

As for US 211, its short length and intrastate nature make it a prime candidate for decommissioning, but the physical characteristics of the road (mostly four-lane) would warrant some sort of US highway designation. The issue would be either finding some other number to extend along US 211, or finding another route to extend US 211 along. Now that US 311 is an interstate route, its logical extension is along US 360.

And I really think the useless concurrency of US 17 with US 50 needs to be eliminated.
My idea for US 211 would involve it replacing US 29 east of Warrenton, with 29 north being truncated to Culpeper. I’m also in the “replace 522 with 17” crowd. 522 between Culpeper and Winchester can revert to being VA 3, and Culpeper to Powhatan can become an extension of VA 229.
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2019, 09:23:59 PM »

Not a full decommissioning, but I could plausibly see Florida deciding they no longer have a use for US 23, especially with the recent opening of the nearby FL 23 toll road that could be a potential source of confusion.
Does GA-23 cause any confusion? I think terminating US-23 in Waycross, GA would be the best place for that route to end, either there or Folkston. South of Callahan, FL that should just be a state highway.

I'm not real sure on how major of a highway US-23 is in the southern section of the route but in Michigan it's a major route.

Also keep in mind that in 1926 it originally terminated in Portsmouth, Ohio on the south end and has been extended so cutting it back makes some sense.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 09:26:32 PM by Flint1979 »
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Flint1979

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2019, 09:33:26 PM »

US 90 Business in New Orleans.
Many business routes would qualify, many are concurrent with state routes.
In Michigan the business routes are usually concurrent with state routes for only part of their routes. To have a Business Loop or Spur is telling you that you are going to be able to reconnect with the parent highway at the other end of the route.

Another reason is that business routes are less useful to steer travelers to off-freeway businesses, now that logo signs and smartphones often serve that function.

Many business routes have faded away on their own, even if not formally decommissioned. At least in California, the lifecycle seems to be (1) business route is set up to placate a community pissed off at being bypassed by a new freeway; (2) community adapts to the new freeway (often by businesses relocating); (3) signage on the business route deteriorates or disappears; and (4) the state DOT notices that the community no longer cares about its business route, and removes freeway signage pointing to the business route.
I've seen several where they are simply the old route through town and the parent route is on a bypass. I was on a new stretch of US-131 yesterday that goes around Constantine, MI and the old route is Business US-131.

I love looking at them on Google Maps. You can clearly see how the old route went through. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8720747,-85.6636748,749m/data=!3m1!1e3

Google Maps is nice though there are some shortcuts I would have never knew about. I use it as a GPS system all the time.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2019, 10:15:06 PM »

Not a full decommissioning, but I could plausibly see Florida deciding they no longer have a use for US 23, especially with the recent opening of the nearby FL 23 toll road that could be a potential source of confusion.
Does GA-23 cause any confusion? I think terminating US-23 in Waycross, GA would be the best place for that route to end, either there or Folkston. South of Callahan, FL that should just be a state highway.

I'm not real sure on how major of a highway US-23 is in the southern section of the route but in Michigan it's a major route.

Also keep in mind that in 1926 it originally terminated in Portsmouth, Ohio on the south end and has been extended so cutting it back makes some sense.

Except for a little piece in downtown Jacksonville, all of US 23 in Florida is also US 1. (I'm guessing you're looking at Google Maps, which does a poor job of showing the 1/23 concurrency that starts north of Alma, GA and goes all the way to Jax.) The independent portion can just revert to (the already existing, but currently unsigned) SR 139.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2019, 10:25:07 PM »

Not a full decommissioning, but I could plausibly see Florida deciding they no longer have a use for US 23, especially with the recent opening of the nearby FL 23 toll road that could be a potential source of confusion.
Does GA-23 cause any confusion? I think terminating US-23 in Waycross, GA would be the best place for that route to end, either there or Folkston. South of Callahan, FL that should just be a state highway.

I'm not real sure on how major of a highway US-23 is in the southern section of the route but in Michigan it's a major route.

Also keep in mind that in 1926 it originally terminated in Portsmouth, Ohio on the south end and has been extended so cutting it back makes some sense.

Except for a little piece in downtown Jacksonville, all of US 23 in Florida is also US 1. (I'm guessing you're looking at Google Maps, which does a poor job of showing the 1/23 concurrency that starts north of Alma, GA and goes all the way to Jax.) The independent portion can just revert to (the already existing, but currently unsigned) SR 139.

While Florida has a little reason to decommission/renumber its part of US 23, there is no reason for Georgia to lift a finger to synch with Florida. And AASHTO being AASHTO, it might disapprove a decommission request made only by Florida, which would leave US 23 terminating at the state line.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2019, 11:41:33 PM »

Not a full decommissioning, but I could plausibly see Florida deciding they no longer have a use for US 23, especially with the recent opening of the nearby FL 23 toll road that could be a potential source of confusion.
Does GA-23 cause any confusion? I think terminating US-23 in Waycross, GA would be the best place for that route to end, either there or Folkston. South of Callahan, FL that should just be a state highway.

I'm not real sure on how major of a highway US-23 is in the southern section of the route but in Michigan it's a major route.

Also keep in mind that in 1926 it originally terminated in Portsmouth, Ohio on the south end and has been extended so cutting it back makes some sense.

Except for a little piece in downtown Jacksonville, all of US 23 in Florida is also US 1. (I'm guessing you're looking at Google Maps, which does a poor job of showing the 1/23 concurrency that starts north of Alma, GA and goes all the way to Jax.) The independent portion can just revert to (the already existing, but currently unsigned) SR 139.

While Florida has a little reason to decommission/renumber its part of US 23, there is no reason for Georgia to lift a finger to synch with Florida. And AASHTO being AASHTO, it might disapprove a decommission request made only by Florida, which would leave US 23 terminating at the state line.

And Florida never really has cared that there has been duplicate signed numbers in field.  Nobody really seems to confuse US 1 and FL A1A as the prime example.  There was a time when FL A19A touched US 19 and FL 41 was only a couple miles from US 41.

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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2019, 11:48:50 PM »

And Florida never really has cared that there has been duplicate signed numbers in field.  Nobody really seems to confuse US 1 and FL A1A as the prime example. 

How is that duplicate?  We lived not far from A1A back in the 1960s, and people spoke it "A one A" using the "long A".  For US-1 usually "Route One".  Sounds very different, and back then it never occurred to me that A1A had any relation to US-1.
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Re: Are any US routes in danger of being decommissioned?
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2019, 11:55:02 PM »

And Florida never really has cared that there has been duplicate signed numbers in field.  Nobody really seems to confuse US 1 and FL A1A as the prime example. 

How is that duplicate?  We lived not far from A1A back in the 1960s, and people spoke it "A one A" using the "long A".  For US-1 usually "Route One".  Sounds very different, and back then it never occurred to me that A1A had any relation to US-1.

How is it not when they both a highway with "1" as part of the number.  In the case of the "A1A" the way I've always understood the Florida road lore was that it was to make just different enough so people didn't confuse it with US 1. 

Interestingly nobody ever seemed to confuse US 17 and FL 17 despite the two actually having a junction in Haines City.

 


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