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Author Topic: Cheating US highways  (Read 2669 times)

US 89

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2019, 06:43:44 PM »

US-412 also overlaps with US-43, US-56, US-60, US-62, US-63, US-64, US-65, and U.S. 270 and runs parallel to US-62 and US-64 in various places and intersects US-70. It's ridiculous that it can't have a spur number from anyone of those US highways.

Given that it's an E/W running highway, it wouldn't make sense to use any of the odd-numbered roads you mentioned.  It probably runs concurrently with US-62 more than any other US highway, so I could buy into a US-462.  Only changes one numeral that way.  It's probably going to become an interstate between Tulsa and Lowell anyway if they bypass Siloam Springs and take care of at-grade intersections; there aren't very many in that stretch.

In my opinion, the easiest fix to US 412 is to truncate it to Guymon as the entire thing west of there is a useless overlap with US 64 and/or US 56. As for the rest of it, I like the idea of a US x64, because it tends to function as an alternate to that route through most of Oklahoma (sort of like the x83 family in the KS/OK area). I'd be quite happy with a US 464, since 164 should be used for what's currently 163, 264 is in use, and 364 is the designation for the Creek Turnpike.
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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2019, 07:21:40 PM »

US-20 never met up with US-120 either.

On paper it did...was originally designated to go to Erie but by 1928 was truncated.  Per US Ends.com, Pennsylvania may not have gotten to signing its US routes before they changed some designations.  Explicitly shown to Erie in the 1927 Clasons Atlas.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2019, 01:43:33 AM »

Has anyone brought up US 163?   Really it is a very short route that happens to be in two states and is far truncated from its original size.  The number is much akin to US 400, 412 and 425.

US 412 actually isn't a short route and goes through or at least slightly touches 6 states.  I think the entire 400 series of U.S. highways were intended to be an eye-gouge to pendantic folks like us to push those in power to make them into freeways.  US-412 from Tulsa eastward to Nashville is a high-priority corridor (HPC 8) that will at least make spotty progress towards freeway upgrades in our lifetimes, but who knows if that means upgraded portions are replaced with an interstate designation eventually.  It's already at least 4 lanes from Tulsa to Huntsville, AR, but I don't see much appetite for pushing through the mountains to Alpena, AR anytime soon.  And I definitely don't see any push past Harrison for a couple of decades.

No way US 412 needs any type of freeway status.  The route is merely a conglomeration of routes strung together to put cities on the "map."
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texaskdog

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2019, 04:06:13 AM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2019, 04:10:52 AM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.

Important to note that before I-35W was completed US-8 used to go southwest into Minneapolis.
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Flint1979

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2019, 06:32:20 AM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.
I've used US-8 before and agree with WI-29 being a better route to use to cross Wisconsin.
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texaskdog

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2019, 06:53:31 PM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.

Important to note that before I-35W was completed US-8 used to go southwest into Minneapolis.

things change

though if I had my way US 2 would follow Michigan 28 to the Soo and US 8 would have it's new direct crossing and follow current US 2 to Saint Ignace.
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Flint1979

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2019, 09:52:27 AM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.

Important to note that before I-35W was completed US-8 used to go southwest into Minneapolis.

things change

though if I had my way US 2 would follow Michigan 28 to the Soo and US 8 would have it's new direct crossing and follow current US 2 to Saint Ignace.
I think M-28 should remain a state highway. I just don't see the point of adding another US highway across the UP.
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hbelkins

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2019, 03:16:40 PM »

And THIS thread hasn't been locked yet for going off the rails, yet someone killed the three word game in Off-Topic?

My point about inconsistent moderation gets proved yet again.
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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2019, 03:19:41 PM »

And THIS thread hasn't been locked yet for going off the rails, yet someone killed the three word game in Off-Topic?

My point about inconsistent moderation gets proved yet again.

I agree that it shouldn't have been locked. My guess is that it's because this thread has an original topic to go back to, while the three word game didn't (even though the topic was fine).
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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2019, 07:04:06 PM »

And THIS thread hasn't been locked yet for going off the rails, yet someone killed the three word game in Off-Topic?

My point about inconsistent moderation gets proved yet again.

That's because this thread has gone in three different directions (the original topic, the ordinal linguistic personification offshoot, and random silliness). Locking it because of the silliness kills two interesting topics, so being "consistent" here by applying a one-size-fits-all solution of locking everything that goes off the rails is actively bad moderation, which is generally considered worse than inconsistent moderation.

Ordinal linguistic personification stuff moved to https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24739.0, will slice out the silliness shortly.
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2019, 10:03:00 PM »

And THIS thread hasn't been locked yet for going off the rails, yet someone killed the three word game in Off-Topic?

My point about inconsistent moderation gets proved yet again.

Go cry me a freeway.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2019, 10:07:50 PM »

And THIS thread hasn't been locked yet for going off the rails, yet someone killed the three word game in Off-Topic?

My point about inconsistent moderation gets proved yet again.

You're probably the person who ought to have the LEAST interest in an uptick in moderation.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2019, 02:08:23 AM »

US-412 also overlaps with US-43, US-56, US-60, US-62, US-63, US-64, US-65, and U.S. 270 and runs parallel to US-62 and US-64 in various places and intersects US-70. It's ridiculous that it can't have a spur number from anyone of those US highways.

Given that it's an E/W running highway, it wouldn't make sense to use any of the odd-numbered roads you mentioned.  It probably runs concurrently with US-62 more than any other US highway, so I could buy into a US-462.  Only changes one numeral that way.  It's probably going to become an interstate between Tulsa and Lowell anyway if they bypass Siloam Springs and take care of at-grade intersections; there aren't very many in that stretch.

In my opinion, the easiest fix to US 412 is to truncate it to Guymon as the entire thing west of there is a useless overlap with US 64 and/or US 56. As for the rest of it, I like the idea of a US x64, because it tends to function as an alternate to that route through most of Oklahoma (sort of like the x83 family in the KS/OK area). I'd be quite happy with a US 464, since 164 should be used for what's currently 163, 264 is in use, and 364 is the designation for the Creek Turnpike.
I say renumber US 412 as US 66. 
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2019, 02:38:28 AM »

FTR, my post about US 220 and US 202, which contained both legitimate and info about their personalities, was excluded from this thread, but never placed in the parallel thread; it essentially went <poof> or was shipped off to that place that rhymes with “gallon sand”.  My point was that US 220 never gets anywhere near its parent (barely makes it a few feet into the same state at its northern terminus, and is over a hundred miles from it in PA), and US 202 strays almost 500 miles from its parent at its southern terminus, and changes from north-south to east-west then back and  back again.
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Flint1979

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2019, 06:50:31 AM »

Simply upgrading NY-34 to US-220 and connecting US-220 to US-20 in Auburn, NY would work.

US-202 makes it's connection with US-2 in Bangor, Maine so I see no problem with that one.
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Verlanka

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2019, 07:41:22 AM »

I think the "new" US 311 qualifies, as it is basically an east-west North Carolina highway that dips into Virginia.
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vdeane

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2019, 01:08:57 PM »

FTR, my post about US 220 and US 202, which contained both legitimate and info about their personalities, was excluded from this thread, but never placed in the parallel thread; it essentially went <poof> or was shipped off to that place that rhymes with “gallon sand”.  My point was that US 220 never gets anywhere near its parent (barely makes it a few feet into the same state at its northern terminus, and is over a hundred miles from it in PA), and US 202 strays almost 500 miles from its parent at its southern terminus, and changes from north-south to east-west then back and  back again.
It's worth noting that US 220 no longer enters NY; AASHTO approved a request to truncate it back to the PA border (creating a de facto terminus at I-86/modern NY 17).
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hbelkins

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2019, 03:24:48 PM »

FTR, my post about US 220 and US 202, which contained both legitimate and info about their personalities, was excluded from this thread, but never placed in the parallel thread; it essentially went <poof> or was shipped off to that place that rhymes with “gallon sand”.  My point was that US 220 never gets anywhere near its parent (barely makes it a few feet into the same state at its northern terminus, and is over a hundred miles from it in PA), and US 202 strays almost 500 miles from its parent at its southern terminus, and changes from north-south to east-west then back and  back again.
It's worth noting that US 220 no longer enters NY; AASHTO approved a request to truncate it back to the PA border (creating a de facto terminus at I-86/modern NY 17).

That's probably one of the shortest truncations in history. A couple of hundred feet, maybe?
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Avalanchez71

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2019, 11:23:21 PM »

Was the truncation due that town not wanting traffic?
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2019, 10:23:13 AM »

Was the truncation due that town not wanting traffic?

It was probably because there was no need for it to extend further. The cross road it ended at was old NY 17, but I think was just a county road or city street today.
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MantyMadTown

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2019, 04:59:48 AM »

US 8: only 278 miles long, basically a Wisconsin highway with 22 miles in Minnesota and 2 in Michigan.  WI-29 is a far more efficient way across Wisconsin.
I've used US-8 before and agree with WI-29 being a better route to use to cross Wisconsin.

Google Maps is telling me that starting from almost any city in northern Wisconsin east of US 51 (or the UP east of US 45), WIS 29 is a much faster route to get to the Twin Cities. Even starting from anywhere along US 8 (like Rhinelander or Cranston), Google Maps still redirects you to highway 29 because it's over 20 minutes faster.
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Rothman

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2019, 07:44:09 AM »

I don't find WI 29 being faster particularly surprising, having driven it myself.
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MantyMadTown

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2019, 03:32:58 PM »

Well for the past several decades Wisconsin has put a lot of work into upgrading it into a major highway. If it didn't receive those upgrades it wouldn't be any faster than highways with a speed limit of 55 mph.
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The High Plains Traveler

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Re: Cheating US highways
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2019, 11:14:02 PM »


There are several U.S. highways that exist only in one state. And that policy of 300 or more miles or more than one state was written in 1991 so it doesn't surprise me that there are several U.S. highways that aren't 300 miles long or don't enter another state. So any new additions to the U.S. highway system has to serve more than one state.
The AASHTO (AASHO) U.S. route numbering policy actually dates back to the late 1930s. It's been violated numerous times since then, with new single-state routes being established.
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