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Author Topic: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying  (Read 1201 times)

Bobby5280

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2019, 11:47:41 PM »

Quote from: 1955hoo
Placing warning signs in advance doesn't mean "get over now." Exit signs show up a mile or two ahead of the exit. I guess under Bobby5280's view of the world, that means you must try to exit the highway right then when you see those signs?

That ridiculous comment just goes to show you totally don't understand my point. I'm not insisting that everyone merge over as soon as they see the first warning signs of the upcoming lane closure (or in my other example with the Cache Road "Y" split at I-44). My point is drivers should merge over when it looks like it's the last safe, clear and obvious opportunity to do so. Merge over when there is still an open gap between moving vehicles to use. It's pretty simple. You can't always expect two vehicles moving bumper to bumper to create to a gap for you at the last second.
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1995hoo

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2019, 08:31:19 AM »

I do understand your point, and I’m saying that in already-slow traffic there isn’t necessarily going to be a “clear and obvious” spot to get over. Getting over at the end of a line of stupeys who panic when they see a “lane ends 2 miles” sign is not a reasonable option.

A “Y” split, or any off-ramp, is a different situation because there a lane is not ending—it’s exiting the highway. It’s unacceptable to block the exit, or to stop on the gore area trying to shove over. (I see cabbies do this all the time in the Ninth Street Tunnel in DC.)
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kphoger

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2019, 03:27:36 PM »

Go back and re-read what I wrote. I did not say I actually did that shit. I said I feel like doing that ...

For what it's worth, I did read that you said you felt like doing that.  When I said "you" all those times, I didn't actually mean you specifically, but rather the hypothetical driver who does actually straddle the center stripe to prevent people from driving in the other lane.  Sorry for making it sound like it was all directed at you.

... when some jackass ignores the previous openings he had to safely merge and chooses to speed up past everyone in the right lane and then try to cut in line where there is no damned opening. That shit slows down everything to a stop.

What I was replying to was your feeling like "straddling [your] pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front".  So my question is this:  how do you know there's no opening ahead of you and won't be when that other driver makes it to the road cones?  That other driver is not yet trying "to cut in line", or else you wouldn't feel like "straddling ... the center line so [he] can't pass".

a situation where vehicles are usually still moving along at 30mph-40mph through the work/construction zone.

So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you—then you have no problem with that, right?  You don't know 300 yards (or 400 or 500 or whatever point you merged over at) whether there will be an open space by the time I reach the road cones, so you have no way to determine that you chose the "correct" point at which to merge over.  The only time there's clearly not going to be much space to merge over is when traffic is at a near-standstill and everyone is bumper to bumper—which you specifically clarified is not the type of situation you were talking about.
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Bobby5280

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2019, 08:13:22 PM »

Quote from: 1955hoo
I do understand your point, and I’m saying that in already-slow traffic there isn’t necessarily going to be a “clear and obvious” spot to get over. Getting over at the end of a line of stupeys who panic when they see a “lane ends 2 miles” sign is not a reasonable option.

The original poster's example was a rural Interstate in East Texas. On rural Interstates I've driven through plenty of zones reduced to one lane for construction or other types of work without traffic slowing down to a crawl. I've experienced plenty of instances where the flow of traffic is trying to go 5-10mph above the posted construction zone speed, even if the single lane is tightly flanked by Jersey barriers. I think this could be one reason why often here in Oklahoma I see OHP trooper vehicles nowadays parked at some construction zones with their emergency lights flashing.

The point is with many of these rural one-lane zones unless some kind of conflict happens, like someone cutting off another driver in the next lane and that other driver suddenly slamming the brakes to avoid trading paint. That kind of thing is likely to happen if one driver has completely run out of road and has to merge immediately.

Quote from: kphoger
What I was replying to was your feeling like "straddling [your] pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front".  So my question is this:  how do you know there's no opening ahead of you and won't be when that other driver makes it to the road cones?  That other driver is not yet trying "to cut in line", or else you wouldn't feel like "straddling ... the center line so [he] can't pass".

There's a lot of places around here where the roads go up and down hillsides or up and down river/creek valleys. With the example in Lawton of Cache Road approaching I-44 the road is going downhill enough that it's not hard to see the traffic situation down to the point of the "Y" split. I can usually see if cars are bunched up at the split or not. If there is still room to pass (and enough of the road left before my exit) then I'll certainly get around the slower folks.

Quote from: kphoger
So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you—then you have no problem with that, right?

I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 08:16:50 PM by Bobby5280 »
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kphoger

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2019, 08:29:09 PM »


Quote from: kphoger
So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you—then you have no problem with that, right?

I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.

You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.
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vdeane

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2019, 08:36:42 PM »

Isn't that what a combination of scanning ahead and driver's intuition is for?
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Bobby5280

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2019, 11:43:50 PM »

I prefer merging into the last gap I can visibly SEE rather than speeding alongside a cluster of cars in the next lane gambling on a gap opening up at the last second.
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kphoger

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2019, 02:08:35 PM »

I prefer merging into the last gap I can visibly SEE rather than speeding alongside a cluster of cars in the next lane gambling on a gap opening up at the last second.

Fine.  I prefer not.  We can each live with the other's way of doing things.
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qguy

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2019, 06:14:51 AM »

Quote from: kphoger
So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you—then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.

"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear
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yand

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2019, 07:16:05 AM »

1) zipper merging requires matching speed. As someone who prefers to not break the speed limit, I get out of the closing lane ASAP
2) attempting to pass while your lane is ending, especially if you're passing from the right, is just a bad idea so don't do it. If you match speed with the adjacent traffic they will more likely understand your intention and let you in when the time comes. You can still achieve some capacity increase without pissing people off.
3) zipper merging is efficient when people are in on the plan. of course, being America people are generally not in on the plan, and neither is the law. zipper merging doesn't work when 1 lane has right of way over the other. CYA.
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webny99

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2019, 08:04:08 AM »

We have discussed this before in other threads, and it can get quite interesting. It is actually a discussion that I quite enjoy.

I personally am a major advocate of zipper merging -- this is what Minnesota does, as mentioned -- and it works really well.
When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles, and (a) if traffic is free flowing, normal expectations of keep right apply until the merge point, and (b) if traffic is not free flowing, stay in your lane and take turns when you get to the merge point. It really does not matter what lane you are going to be using in the construction zone. Very simple.

Where my view gets a bit more complicated is in cases of exits, where either the mainline or the exit ramp is free-flowing, while the other one is jammed. It is usually not fair to apply zipper merging in these cases, because (a) there is no predetermined merge point, and (b) it is nonsensical to interfere with traffic making the free flowing movement. Yet some people do it anyways and try to jam in at the last second, and that really does make me mad -- the key difference from above being that they are not simply taking advantage of a wasted lane (and if they were, I would have no qualms). Rather, there is an existing stream of traffic that has full rights to that lane, and for you to hammer the brakes in their lane and try to squeeze into a non-existent space is just not acceptable.

I-490 WB at I-590 is the location where I have discussed this happening in the past, as a high percentage of the traffic tries to cram into the far right lane during afternoon rush hour. It still happens, and it still frustrates me, but I don't have reason to take that route home as much as I used to, which I think has been good for my blood pressure!  :-D
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Henry

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2019, 10:18:45 AM »

Big freaking deal! I personally don't mind those sprayers being out there, as long as it's not during the commuting hours.
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kphoger

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2019, 02:12:26 PM »

When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles

I like this.  A lot.

In fact, I'd advocate striping to indicate both the right and left lanes converging to the middle.  Even if the construction is clearly on one side of the other, signage and striping doesn't have to favor one lane or the other.  The whole issue as it is leads to drivers in the continuing lane behaving like "I deserve to be in this lane and you don't" and drivers in the terminating lane behaving like "I deserve to be in that lane just as much as you".  Take away the distinction between continuing and terminating lanes, and that should resolve the conflict.

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In_Correct

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2019, 02:51:18 PM »

When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles

I like this.  A lot.

In fact, I'd advocate striping to indicate both the right and left lanes converging to the middle.  Even if the construction is clearly on one side of the other, signage and striping doesn't have to favor one lane or the other.  The whole issue as it is leads to drivers in the continuing lane behaving like "I deserve to be in this lane and you don't" and drivers in the terminating lane behaving like "I deserve to be in that lane just as much as you".  Take away the distinction between continuing and terminating lanes, and that should resolve the conflict.



But they don't.

Instead, I have encountered signs that say:

"STATE LAW
MERGE NOW"

The traffic did not back up. Putting the signs far from the road work gives the motorists enough time to merge into the open lane. Everybody let every body else merge into the lane. It seems to be just as effective as restripeing.

On the other hand, they have to restripe them anyways since the open lane is usually a shoulder.
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kphoger

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2019, 04:09:34 PM »

Instead, I have encountered signs that say:

"STATE LAW
MERGE NOW"

The only state I've ever seen those signs in is Oklahoma.
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rte66man

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2019, 03:12:23 PM »

Quote from: kphoger
So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you—then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.

"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear

heh heh (see my sig)
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Verlanka

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2019, 09:29:48 AM »


"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear

heh heh (see my sig)

:rofl:

Hilarious.
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qguy

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Re: TxDOT Idiots Cause Massive Traffic Jam for Weed Spraying
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2019, 02:44:21 PM »


"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear

heh heh (see my sig)

:rofl:

Hilarious.

Uh, that's precisely what I was riffing on.
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