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Author Topic: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?  (Read 2272 times)

Henry

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2019, 10:28:05 AM »

Honestly, I could care less. However (and this is slightly off topic), I've always wondered why they need two A-440s up in Canada (Montreal and Quebec City); doesn't that create the potential for confusion? One of them ought to be renumbered to avoid that problem.
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PHLBOS

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2019, 11:18:45 AM »

"In the case of an auxiliary Interstate highway which has both ends at Interstates but not the same Interstate, some states treat these as bypasses while others treat these as spurs." - Wikipedia.
I meant to chime on this earlier...  Here's how odd/even 3dis are defined by Rand McNally (the below is listed on atlases and most of their road maps):

First digit odd - route spurs into a city

First digit even - route goes through or around a city.

If that's the case, then I-476 should be renumbered I-776 or I-976 (I-576 is already taken).
I would just swap the 376 and 476 designations in PA

I always favored an I-x95 for the western bypass of Philadelphia.  So the Mid-County Expressway would be I-695 and the Turnpike between Plymouth Meeting and I-95 at Bristol would be I-695.

The Turnpike between Valley Forge and Plymouth Meeting could still be I-276.
Given the above, what would you have the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike designated as?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 11:23:32 AM by PHLBOS »
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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2019, 12:25:36 PM »

I always thought if an even 3DI both ends at another interstate its even b/c it's a connector.  I-684 in NY goes from I-84 to I-287.  It's not a loop or bypass but it connects to two  interstates at each end.  Odd numbered are for spurs where one end does not end at an interstate.
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Beltway

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2019, 04:47:21 PM »

I always favored an I-x95 for the western bypass of Philadelphia.  So the Mid-County Expressway would be I-695 and the Turnpike between Plymouth Meeting and I-95 at Bristol would be I-695.
The Turnpike between Valley Forge and Plymouth Meeting could still be I-276.
Given the above, what would you have the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike designated as?

Really it was too long for an auxiliary route. 

But an I-x80 or I-x78 could have worked.
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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2019, 05:57:18 PM »

If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2019, 06:13:34 PM »

If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.
And when it functions like neither? Looking at you, IL I-290...Its a spur off its Parent that connects the Western suburbs and the West side of Chicago, but happens to touch its Parent on both ends Downtown and in Schaumburg. But it really doesn’t “Bypass” anything...

Of course it has been stated that the I-290 designation could/should go away, with I-88 and I-355 (which in your ideal, probably is a better I-455) replacing most of the current 290 designation, and a new number between them, say I-188

And historically, it used to carry the I-90 designation
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kphoger

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2019, 04:26:06 PM »


If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.

And when it functions like neither?

Irrational number.
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stridentweasel

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2019, 04:48:25 PM »


If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.

And when it functions like neither?

Irrational number.

I-Pi sounds like a sweet Interstate.
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US 89

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2019, 04:51:09 PM »


If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.

And when it functions like neither?

Irrational number.

I-Pi sounds like a sweet Interstate.

But if you take Route e to I pi, it becomes -1!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 09:49:03 AM by US 89 »
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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2019, 05:02:58 PM »

If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.
And when it functions like neither? Looking at you, IL I-290...Its a spur off its Parent that connects the Western suburbs and the West side of Chicago, but happens to touch its Parent on both ends Downtown and in Schaumburg. But it really doesn’t “Bypass” anything...

Of course it has been stated that the I-290 designation could/should go away, with I-88 and I-355 (which in your ideal, probably is a better I-455) replacing most of the current 290 designation, and a new number between them, say I-188

And historically, it used to carry the I-90 designation
The 290 designation makes sense because both ends of it are at I-90, even if it isn't a bypass. Though it should be replaced by I-88 and I-355 as you said.
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PHLBOS

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2019, 05:24:18 PM »

I always thought if an even 3DI both ends at another interstate its even b/c it's a connector.  I-684 in NY goes from I-84 to I-287.  It's not a loop or bypass but it connects to two interstates at each end.
It's worth noting that I-684 was originally proposed & built as I-87 and the oldest of segments (the southernmost portion to Armonk) indeed had I-87 signage from October 1968 to January 1, 1970.

While that highway indeed links to two Interstates (84 & 287) at both ends; there are a some examples of odd 3dis connecting to two Interstates.  I-195 in RI/MA is one such example; granted the eastern end was the result of MA 25 north of I-195 becoming the southern extension of I-495 during the 1980s.

I always favored an I-x95 for the western bypass of Philadelphia.  So the Mid-County Expressway would be I-695 and the Turnpike between Plymouth Meeting and I-95 at Bristol would be I-695.
The Turnpike between Valley Forge and Plymouth Meeting could still be I-276.
Given the above, what would you have the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike designated as?
Really it was too long for an auxiliary route. 

But an I-x80 or I-x78 could have worked.
Given that the Northeast Extension's northern terminus is at I-81; one could've used I-x81.

As far as length; both pieces of I-476 (Blue Route & Northeast Extension) total roughly 131 miles; 111 of those miles being the NE Extension.  So I-476, in total, is longer than I-495 in MA by about 11 miles.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2019, 05:33:47 PM »

The 290 designation makes sense because both ends of it are at I-90, even if it isn't a bypass. Though it should be replaced by I-88 and I-355 as you said.
The number is logical as an Even 3DI because both ends are I-90, agreed

I was simply stating the Rules/Guidelines need to be a bit more pronounced than “Bypass” vs “Spur”
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thspfc

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2019, 05:54:04 PM »

The 290 designation makes sense because both ends of it are at I-90, even if it isn't a bypass. Though it should be replaced by I-88 and I-355 as you said.
The number is logical as an Even 3DI because both ends are I-90, agreed

I was simply stating the Rules/Guidelines need to be a bit more pronounced than “Bypass” vs “Spur”
True
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kphoger

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2019, 06:07:03 PM »

I-290 is a bypass of Des Plaines.  Problem solved.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2019, 06:20:48 PM »

I-290 is a bypass of Des Plaines.  Problem solved.
:bigass:

O’Hare is probably more fittingly accurate, despite a tighter ORD Bypass Tollway being built for Future I-490

Considering it was originally designated as I-90, I don’t think it really fits to call it a “Bypass.” If others thinks it resembles a Bypass, so be it
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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2019, 07:43:40 PM »

If the route functions like a bypass (I-635 in Texas would be an example), it should be an even number. If it functions like a spur to another Interstate (205 in Cal), it should be an odd number.
And when it functions like neither? Looking at you, IL I-290...Its a spur off its Parent that connects the Western suburbs and the West side of Chicago, but happens to touch its Parent on both ends Downtown and in Schaumburg. But it really doesn’t “Bypass” anything...

Of course it has been stated that the I-290 designation could/should go away, with I-88 and I-355 (which in your ideal, probably is a better I-455) replacing most of the current 290 designation, and a new number between them, say I-188

And historically, it used to carry the I-90 designation
I-290 bypasses both the Kennedy Expressway stretch and the O'Hare area. It's basically an alternate route.
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Beltway

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2019, 09:21:28 PM »

]Given the above, what would you have the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike designated as?
Really it was too long for an auxiliary route.  But an I-x80 or I-x78 could have worked.
Given that the Northeast Extension's northern terminus is at I-81; one could've used I-x81.
As far as length; both pieces of I-476 (Blue Route & Northeast Extension) total roughly 131 miles; 111 of those miles being the NE Extension.  So I-476, in total, is longer than I-495 in MA by about 11 miles.

I thought about an I-x81, but decided not to given the low-grade connection to I-81.

How about a mainline route like I-67?  Wasn't that discussed for the western part of the state?
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PHLBOS

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Re: Should auxiliary Interstates be numbered like spurs or like bypasses?
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2019, 09:41:37 AM »

Given the above, what would you have the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike designated as?
Really it was too long for an auxiliary route.  But an I-x80 or I-x78 could have worked.
Given that the Northeast Extension's northern terminus is at I-81; one could've used I-x81.
As far as length; both pieces of I-476 (Blue Route & Northeast Extension) total roughly 131 miles; 111 of those miles being the NE Extension.  So I-476, in total, is longer than I-495 in MA by about 11 miles.
I thought about an I-x81, but decided not to given the low-grade connection to I-81.
IIRC, a remedy for that connection is now in the works. 
Your suggested I-x78 wouldn't work because although the two highway cross each other, they don't directly interchange w/one another.  One needs to use US 22 and possibly PA 309 for connections.  Your suggested I-x80 alternative has an issue regarding I-476's connection w/I-80 involves going through a signalized intersection w/PA 940.

How about a mainline route like I-67?  Wasn't that discussed for the western part of the state?
Over the years/decades, there's been three different proposals out there for I-67; not one of them is in or involves PA.  The western PA that's been touted in this forum is a fictional one.

That said, and there probably already a fictional thread on such, a more desirable 2di candidate for the NE Extension would be to have it be a part of an overall northern extension of I-85.  Yes, such would be concurrent w/I-95 in many areas (utilizing only current Interstates along the way) but there's enough parallel or semi-parallel highways in key regions where the two could be separated for some distances.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 11:58:51 AM by PHLBOS »
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