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Author Topic: Memphis Highways  (Read 1077 times)

Wayward Memphian

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2019, 06:05:13 PM »

As a non-resident of Memphis and casual observer, here is my 2 cents.

Being on the river, Memphis was (at one time) a major commerical hub. This then brought the railroads maintaining its commercial status.

East Tennessee used to be considered "neglected" post WW2, (all the alum and nylon plants closing) isn't that why Knoxville got the World Expo? To bring commerce eastward?

From an economic perspective, Nashville is booming, especially in and around Franklin. I don't think it was about NFL or hockey or anything like that.  Nashville offered a midrange economy, semi-mild winters and relatively cheap real estate.

Knoxville continues to grow due to nearby tourism in Gatlinburg, Dollywood, the Smokeys etc.  It draws in people from the east coast.

Today Memphis isn't known as a river hub or a rail hub anymore, though it does serve as a major east-west rail gateway.  It is known generally for music, Elvis and FedEx.  Not many people know about the Memphis Belle anymore. The Pyramid had weeds growing. Sports came through the Griz and the Tigers.  But unless you are a music fanatic, it doesn't translate into a tourism destination.

Interesting that someone mentioned Jacksonville Florida. Like Memphis, it used to be the business, political and military hub of Florida.  Today the last high rise building was built in the 1980's. It used to have at least 5 Fortune 500 HQ's.  It doesn't do tourism like the rest of Florida and is only known by its only Tier 1 sports team the Jaguars.  But since the end of the Cold War, it has lost a large part of its military economy (just like NAS Memphis was demoted to JB Millington).  Most of the corporate HQ have relocated to Tampa or Miami. Most of the manufacturing it housed at one time has left and been replaced with assembly and warehouses on the fringe of town.  The only thing Jacksonville was able to carry over was banking and insurance.  Today, Bank of America, Deutsche Bank and Chase all have major operations there.

There has to be something more that Memphis has retained or is developing at a lower level that can be exposed externally more effectively, and don't say the casinos @ Tunica.

Memphis still a frieght rail hub. Several huge intermodal facilities. The base closure effected Raleigh mostly as many officers had houses there over living in Millington proper. I know, I went to Craigmont in the day and we had many Officer kids in attendance.

It's interesting I was reading today that Hilton is adding hundreds of acccounting jobs in Memphis. Their campus is smack dab in the middle of East Memphis. There is lots more positive happening in Memphis than negative. St. Jude has billion dollar expansion plans.

Some have taken notive

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/38980999/is-memphis-the-next-big-city
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MantyMadTown

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2019, 06:45:39 PM »

Putting it bluntly: Memphis has too many black people. That's the reason for the disdain.

 :-D :-D :-D :-D

That's funny.

Every state has places that whine and cry over a perceived "neglect." In North Carolina, Charlotte cries that the Triangle and Triad get all the attention. Here in Kentucky, Louisville has an inferiority complex, saying that Lexington, northern Kentucky, and the rural areas of the state are held in higher regard.

In Wisconsin that's nearly every place besides Milwaukee and Madison. Lots of politicians seem to have a vendetta against those two cities.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 12:48:24 AM by MantyMadTown »
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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2019, 10:55:02 PM »

Thanks for the 411. I find it baffling that not much has been developed around Beale? I love Beale St almost as much as Bourbon st...
Worst evaluation of Beale Street ever published...
https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/gradschool_theses/3244/
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2019, 10:37:22 AM »

Thanks for the 411. I find it baffling that not much has been developed around Beale? I love Beale St almost as much as Bourbon st...

Well, there's Servicemaster HQ that relocated to the Peabody Place building. FedEx Logistics going into the Gibson Guitar building and that development I linked. One Beale has finally broke ground althought the office tower part's height is unknown and it it the last phase. You had the Chicsa dedevelopment, the Memphis Brewery dedevelopment, the Old Dommicks distillery and the new Malco theater all very near Beale.

When I moved to Memphis in 1978, Beale Street was shell of its former self -- a bunch of propped up facades in the middle of a bunch of weed-filled lots cleared in the name of urban redevelopment.

Looking at Beale Street now, and all the redevelopment in the southern end of downtown....it's amazing.   And there does seem to be an optimistic attitude manifesting in the "Choose 901" movement that was missing during my days growing up.  Some of what's going on today with the redevelopment of the Crosstown area is impressive.

If the area can do something about crime levels, manage resistance against gentrification, and find a new economic base....
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Bobby5280

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2019, 11:44:42 AM »

"Manage resistance against gentrification"? What is that supposed to mean?

Gentrification is not a 100% positive thing. The process that has played out in cities like New York has a very sinister side. While New York City's overall crime rate, particularly in violent crimes like murder, is a mere fraction of what it once was, the city's rate of homelessness has ballooned. Now we have the absurd situation of working homeless: people who are full time employed or even working multiple jobs yet live at crowded shelters or bounce from one friend's couch to the next. They can't afford the extreme prices of housing and don't have enough money to escape to a city or town with a lower cost of living.

The housing market in New York City and certain other large US metros have turned into a speculative free for all. Global investors are getting in on the action. NYC has all sorts of widespread fraud going on with developers running schemes to kick long time residents out of rent-controlled housing so it can be renovated and flipped as luxury housing.

What needs to happen in Memphis is improvement in various neighborhoods that doesn't translate to kicking out all the people who are elderly, poor and/or black.
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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2019, 02:49:41 PM »

^ Best way to address the "gentrification" and "working homeless" issues is to build more housing in the city.  Also, ironically, the best way to preserve historic neighborhoods in those cities, but those residents would rather be NIMBYs citing traffic and population and crowded schools and whatnot.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2019, 04:53:20 PM »

"Manage resistance against gentrification"? What is that supposed to mean?

Gentrification is not a 100% positive thing. The process that has played out in cities like New York has a very sinister side. While New York City's overall crime rate, particularly in violent crimes like murder, is a mere fraction of what it once was, the city's rate of homelessness has ballooned. Now we have the absurd situation of working homeless: people who are full time employed or even working multiple jobs yet live at crowded shelters or bounce from one friend's couch to the next. They can't afford the extreme prices of housing and don't have enough money to escape to a city or town with a lower cost of living.

The housing market in New York City and certain other large US metros have turned into a speculative free for all. Global investors are getting in on the action. NYC has all sorts of widespread fraud going on with developers running schemes to kick long time residents out of rent-controlled housing so it can be renovated and flipped as luxury housing.

What needs to happen in Memphis is improvement in various neighborhoods that doesn't translate to kicking out all the people who are elderly, poor and/or black.

I was writing in a bit of a rush; my apologies.

That last sentence "improvement in various neighborhoods...that doesn't translate..." is actually exactly what I mean.

Memphis is in a process of launching a new "Memphis 2050" master plan.  I recall that there was a significant bit of resistance to it  from a neighborhood group in one of the more neglected sections of town because of the fear of full-fledged gentrification, etc.

Contrast that to the redevelopment in Crosstown, where there has been quite a bit of success in pre-redevelopment businesses remaining in the neighborhood, long-time owners getting access to funding assistance to improve their homes, resisting the pressure to sell out to developers and speculators, etc.
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hbelkins

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2019, 07:29:45 PM »

I've never understood why Tennessee seems to be so much better off economically than Kentucky, given the similarities in terrain and demographics.

Tennessee has four major cities; Kentucky has two (three if you want to count suburban Cincinnati as one entity). Tennessee has more mid-major cities (Jackson, Murfreesboro, Cookeville, Johnson City, Kingsport and Bristol come to mind) over Kentucky (Paducah, Owensboro, Bowling Green, Ashland, Richmond).

Most everyone points to Tennessee's lack of an income tax, but sales taxes are exorbitant. And Kentucky's income tax isn't exactly high. Top rate of around 5 percent.
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wriddle082

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2019, 08:28:21 PM »

I've never understood why Tennessee seems to be so much better off economically than Kentucky, given the similarities in terrain and demographics.

Tennessee has four major cities; Kentucky has two (three if you want to count suburban Cincinnati as one entity). Tennessee has more mid-major cities (Jackson, Murfreesboro, Cookeville, Johnson City, Kingsport and Bristol come to mind) over Kentucky (Paducah, Owensboro, Bowling Green, Ashland, Richmond).

Most everyone points to Tennessee's lack of an income tax, but sales taxes are exorbitant. And Kentucky's income tax isn't exactly high. Top rate of around 5 percent.

The Tennessee Valley Authority built many dams across the state for the primary purpose of flood control, but had the very positive side effect of generating lots of cheap electricity.  Kentucky’s electricity generation is primarily from coal-fired power plants, which cost more.  Western KY is the exception here due to Kentucky and Barkley Dams.

Tennessee is also a right-to-work state, something I believe Kentucky is not.

Starting with Lamar Alexander in 1978, Tennessee has had a long history of strong, effective leadership in the governor’s office (with the notable exception of Don Sundquist).  During that time period, Kentucky suffered through quite a few miserable one-term governors, most notably John Y. Brown, Wallace Wilkinson, and Brereton Jones.

Tennessee is a bit more of a crossroads state than Kentucky is.  Kentucky and Tennessee may both share major N-S interstates 65 and 75, but Tennessee also has a little bit of I-55, a bit of mid-major interstate 81, and a monster of an E-W interstate in 40 that links them all together.  I-64 isn’t quite as strong of an E-W interstate.

Oh yeah, the BBQ is better in TN, and the winters are slightly more bearable.

-Billy Riddle (born in TN to a KY-native mother and TN-native father, lived most of his life in both states, and desperately wishes he was back in either one)
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oscar

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2019, 08:58:56 PM »

Tennessee is a bit more of a crossroads state than Kentucky is.  Kentucky and Tennessee may both share major N-S interstates 65 and 75, but Tennessee also has a little bit of I-55, a bit of mid-major interstate 81, and a monster of an E-W interstate in 40 that links them all together.  I-64 isn’t quite as strong of an E-W interstate.

From the perspective of an East Coaster who often drives west, Kentucky is usually out of my way (though I did pass through there on my way to last weekend's Memphis meet). I more often pass through Tennessee on I-40/I-81 if I'm driving to the southwestern states, or Indiana via I-70 or the turnpikes if I'm heading toward the Pacific Northwest or western Canada. I-64 requires me to jog south through Beckley WV, or north through Morgantown WV, or the incomplete US 48/Corridor H. That makes it a less convenient west-east route, which often tips the scale toward my bypassing Kentucky.

West Virginia's mountainous terrain probably also deters truckers from using I-64 through Kentucky.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 09:41:43 PM by oscar »
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Revive 755

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2019, 10:37:34 PM »

West Virginia's mountainous terrain probably also deters truckers from using I-64 through Kentucky.

I-40 isn't flat in Tennessee.
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oscar

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2019, 10:46:00 PM »

West Virginia's mountainous terrain probably also deters truckers from using I-64 through Kentucky.

I-40 isn't flat in Tennessee.

On average, it's flatter than West Virginia's Interstates.
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hbelkins

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2019, 11:50:42 PM »

Tennessee is also a right-to-work state, something I believe Kentucky is not.

Kentucky passed RTW two years ago.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2019, 12:17:24 AM »

I always coin right-to-work as right-to-fire.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2019, 12:33:44 AM »

Quote from: froggie
^ Best way to address the "gentrification" and "working homeless" issues is to build more housing in the city.  Also, ironically, the best way to preserve historic neighborhoods in those cities, but those residents would rather be NIMBYs citing traffic and population and crowded schools and whatnot.

Unfortunately there's not enough money to be made in building housing that is affordable to people in lower income classes, whether they're in that income bracket long term or they're young adults just trying to get a foothold to escape Mommy and Daddy's house to get on with their lives, start families and help sustain "the American Way."

The residential housing industry is stuck in the mindset of building McMansions or building nothing at all. It's literally an all or nothing ideal in most markets. There is a big shortage of lower priced single family homes. And there is hardly any activity at all with multi-unit/apartment complex developments. Well, not unless you count luxury high rise towers being built in places like Manhattan. The prices of home building materials has escalated to match the absurdity of the market. Making matters worse, there is a shortage of home construction workers. The shortage is being exacerbated by all the anti-immigrant fury stoked by certain political zealots, anger-porn cable "news" channels and hyper partisan anger-porn outlets on the Internet. Basically America's housing industry is getting right back in the same absurdly unsustainable spot it was back in the mid 2000's when everything in most housing markets went to all freaking hell.

I'm fairly worried long term for what these absurdities in overpriced housing will mean to the nation over the next 20 years. The extreme prices of housing, health care and education/college in the United States are really setting the stage for one hell of a Japan style baby bust and massive demographic imbalance in age groups. We're turning Parenthood into an extremely expensive lifestyle choice. But our nation (and tax base) can't survive without a steady, healthy supply of New Americans. If we make it impossible for all but the richest few young adults to breed we as a nation are going to be screwed. This nation's Total Fertility Rate is already plummeting to new lows never seen before in the history of this country. All of our net population gains for the past 40+ years have come via immigration. Now we hate immigrants of all types, legal or illegal. Doesn't matter. Even if we were letting in everyone, the immigrants are not having children anywhere near the high rates they were in the past.

Quote from: Revive 755
I-40 isn't flat in Tennessee.

I'll second that, having driven I-40 across Tennessee a few times. There's this stretch between Memphis and Nashville where the road appears straight on the map. But when you drive it the road is like going up and down one big hill after another and another and another and on and on and on! Yeesh! It's not quite so monotonous between Nashville and Knoxville. There is still a lot of up and down action but there is more twists and turns too.

Quote from: oscar
On average, it's flatter than West Virginia's Interstates.

I don't know. I-40 in Eastern Tennessee transitions into I-81 going toward Virginia. I-81 through Western Virginia is pretty hilly. It's a little difficult to really tell the difference when you're driving all the way across Tennessee and up thru Western Virginia in the same road trip. That woodsy, hilly territory all seems to blend together. But the I-40 split into the Smoky Mountains going to Asheville is about as tight a drive as any through mountains in the Interstate system.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 12:37:05 AM by Bobby5280 »
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Brandon

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2019, 09:54:29 AM »

I always coin right-to-work as right-to-fire.

Welcome to the world of professional work, even in a non-RTW state like Illinois.  For us, it's always been "at-will" employment.
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hbelkins

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2019, 09:52:44 PM »

I always coin right-to-work as right-to-fire.

Right-to-work means that you are not required to join a union as a condition of employment. You're confusing it with "at-will."

There's this stretch between Memphis and Nashville where the road appears straight on the map. But when you drive it the road is like going up and down one big hill after another and another and another and on and on and on! Yeesh! It's not quite so monotonous between Nashville and Knoxville.

You have them backwards. Nashville to Knoxville is a fun drive. Nothing monotonous about it at all. Nashville to Memphis, though, is a snoozefest. I drove it once and have vowed never to again. I'll use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 if I'm going to head to Memphis or points south or west.
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Rothman

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2019, 10:32:09 PM »

Right-to-work is just a union-busting measure and it is sad that employees have so little understanding of a unionized workplace that they would support such and shoot themselves in the foot.

A union is the laborers' method of entering into a contract with the employer to get better terms than they would on their own. Because the contract covers the employees of the workplace, the union has to represent every employee in contract disputes and other incidents.

So, in regards to being "forced" to join a union at a workplace, you are simply paying dues to support the union's fulfillment of the contract which ensures the benefits that you are receiving.

Therefore, this right-to-work nonsense undercuts employees, kills the needed resources to negotiate with management and causes the race to the bottom with lower benefits.  Yeah, you don't pay union dues, but your health insurance is ridiculously expensive as your workplace sticks it to you (one example).

Employees that think they can prove themselves on their own at large workplaces are kidding themselves amd are totally at the mercy of the employer.  Unions ensure a true negotiation takes place and provides the real leverage.

All I know is I have worked with and without a union and those that think they're better off without are blind to what benefits they could actually have if they banded together in a union.
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rte66man

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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2019, 08:53:52 AM »

Nashville to Knoxville is a fun drive. Nothing monotonous about it at all. Nashville to Memphis, though, is a snoozefest. I drove it once and have vowed never to again. I'll use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 if I'm going to head to Memphis or points south or west.

While I would agree that Memphis to the Tennessee River is boring, the stretch from there to Nashville is quite scenic.
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Re: Memphis Highways
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2019, 01:30:46 PM »

Nashville to Knoxville is a fun drive. Nothing monotonous about it at all. Nashville to Memphis, though, is a snoozefest. I drove it once and have vowed never to again. I'll use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 if I'm going to head to Memphis or points south or west.

Depends which way you go ;)

I two-laned it to Dandridge a couple years ago :)
While I would agree that Memphis to the Tennessee River is boring, the stretch from there to Nashville is quite scenic.
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