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Author Topic: I-69 in TX  (Read 515952 times)

ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #675 on: May 14, 2014, 10:28:41 AM »

The other thing about the " build it and they will come" idea is how many people will use it now that a better road is in place.  Let's take all the hundreds of thousands of trucks that come from Tamulipas (Cuidad Victoria or Monterey) that are bound for DFW or even Houston that cross the border at Nuevo Laredo because they can get on the interstates earlier, and avoid the valley because they don't want to drive the US 77 to US 59 corridor to get to Houston. We are talking. 300 plus miles of lights, intersections, driveways and blind hills.  Like it or not, the red white and blue shield means something.  People will go out of their way to stay on interstates because the roads are faster and better. Putting an interstate alternative in the valley will increase the traffic because of the people who used to avoid the area because of the lack of an interstate will now drive it. 

To the argument that a divided highway with just a few bypasses is good enough argument: apparently you haven't traveled US 281 between Alice and George West lately. Yea it is a divided highway with 2 lanes in each direction with a 75 mile per hour speed limit, but it is full of rolling blind hills and you are lucky to have an inside shoulder for most of the trip.  I am not talking about big hills in some cases, just small quick hills with blind driveways and rough sub standard pavement. If I drove a truck between the valley and San Antonio daly, I would want a gun to shoot myself because the road is very rough even for a car, much less a fully loaded 18 wheeler. Again, the interstate shield means something.  In Texas, the thinking is make a road as cheaply as possible.  If it is not an interstate, then we will not build it to the standards.  That's why 281 has all the bumps and hills.  With an interstate designation, those poor design flaws will be eliminated. 

I used to work as a land surveyor for a company who's corporate office was in Florida. All we had were two wheel drive F150 pickups and we were beggin for heavy duty 4 wheel drive pick ups, or at least just 4 wheel drive trucks, and corporate said no.  They said we didn't need them because Austin wasn't like Florida so they deemed spending the money for a place they concidered to be dry (because I swear the whole world thinks it never rains in Texas and the whole state is one big flat rock) was a waste, even though it does rain here.   Because of that, I do get offended when people who don't live in an area tell the people of that area "you don't need that ".  In this case it's a freeway. I am sure the people in Falfurious who watch all the NAFTA trucks pounce upon their town might think differently. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 10:31:19 AM by ethanhopkin14 »
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texaskdog

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #676 on: May 14, 2014, 11:56:09 AM »



To the argument that a divided highway with just a few bypasses is good enough argument: apparently you haven't traveled US 281 between Alice and George West lately. Yea it is a divided highway with 2 lanes in each direction with a 75 mile per hour speed limit, but it is full of rolling blind hills and you are lucky to have an inside shoulder for most of the trip.  I am not talking about big hills in some cases, just small quick hills with blind driveways and rough sub standard pavement. If I drove a truck between the valley and San Antonio daly, I would want a gun to shoot myself because the road is very rough even for a car, much less a fully loaded 18 wheeler. Again, the interstate shield means something.  In Texas, the thinking is make a road as cheaply as possible.  If it is not an interstate, then we will not build it to the standards.  That's why 281 has all the bumps and hills.  With an interstate designation, those poor design flaws will be eliminated. 

I used to work as a land surveyor for a company who's corporate office was in Florida. All we had were two wheel drive F150 pickups and we were beggin for heavy duty 4 wheel drive pick ups, or at least just 4 wheel drive trucks, and corporate said no.  They said we didn't need them because Austin wasn't like Florida so they deemed spending the money for a place they concidered to be dry (because I swear the whole world thinks it never rains in Texas and the whole state is one big flat rock) was a waste, even though it does rain here.   Because of that, I do get offended when people who don't live in an area tell the people of that area "you don't need that ".  In this case it's a freeway. I am sure the people in Falfurious who watch all the NAFTA trucks pounce upon their town might think differently. 

What I meant was that if its already a divided highway, putting in exits is much cheaper than a whole new build.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #677 on: May 14, 2014, 12:01:59 PM »



To the argument that a divided highway with just a few bypasses is good enough argument: apparently you haven't traveled US 281 between Alice and George West lately. Yea it is a divided highway with 2 lanes in each direction with a 75 mile per hour speed limit, but it is full of rolling blind hills and you are lucky to have an inside shoulder for most of the trip.  I am not talking about big hills in some cases, just small quick hills with blind driveways and rough sub standard pavement. If I drove a truck between the valley and San Antonio daly, I would want a gun to shoot myself because the road is very rough even for a car, much less a fully loaded 18 wheeler. Again, the interstate shield means something.  In Texas, the thinking is make a road as cheaply as possible.  If it is not an interstate, then we will not build it to the standards.  That's why 281 has all the bumps and hills.  With an interstate designation, those poor design flaws will be eliminated. 

I used to work as a land surveyor for a company who's corporate office was in Florida. All we had were two wheel drive F150 pickups and we were beggin for heavy duty 4 wheel drive pick ups, or at least just 4 wheel drive trucks, and corporate said no.  They said we didn't need them because Austin wasn't like Florida so they deemed spending the money for a place they concidered to be dry (because I swear the whole world thinks it never rains in Texas and the whole state is one big flat rock) was a waste, even though it does rain here.   Because of that, I do get offended when people who don't live in an area tell the people of that area "you don't need that ".  In this case it's a freeway. I am sure the people in Falfurious who watch all the NAFTA trucks pounce upon their town might think differently. 

What I meant was that if its already a divided highway, putting in exits is much cheaper than a whole new build.

Yes it would be cheaper.  But I always like the job done right , not cheaply.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #678 on: May 14, 2014, 12:02:35 PM »

Everyone seems to think that the “build it and they will come” idea is a pipe dream.   Like they are building roads and praying people will use it.  No, it is more like the second this is finished it will be one of the most heavily traveled roads in America.  I hear you that you think I-69e and I-69C are redundant and on a map they sure look redundant, but their existence is quite needed.  I-69E serves two purposes: for traffic going from Corpus Christi to Houston and traffic going from Corpus Christi to the valley, no more than that.  It serves a link between 3 metro areas.  I-69C would be better if it were numbered an I-X37, because it is more of a branch of I-37.  Ask any truck driver who drives the route between San Antonio (or Austin, or Waco, or Dallas/Ft. Worth) and the valley day in and day out which way he goes to the valley from I-37: US 77 or US 281.  I bet you 10 out of 10 drivers will tell you US 281.  So if you said you were going to upgrade one of them to and interstate, they would emphatically ask for US 281, because it is straighter and more direct.  So, since I-69E is vital for the Corpus Christi connection, with truck traffic that is related to the Valley/Corpus/Houston/Shreveport  corridor, then I-69C is just as vital for the Dallas/Ft. Worth/Waco/Austin/San Antonio/Valley corridor.  I think they are much needed, and as for money, that I can’t tell you about!

A related question: Should the US 69 freeway in eastern Kansas be extended to I-44 in northeastern Oklahoma?  This highway appears to be redundant to the US 71/I-49 corridor in Missouri, but should it be extended as an alternative?
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #679 on: May 14, 2014, 12:05:24 PM »

With an interstate designation, those poor design flaws will be eliminated.

In Texas, maybe.  Ever driven I-880 in California through Oakland?
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #680 on: May 14, 2014, 12:05:56 PM »

In this case it's a freeway. I am sure the people in Falfurious who watch all the NAFTA trucks pounce upon their town might think differently. 

Now it's more "zoom past" than "pounce upon".  US 281 through Falfurrias is now a freeway, and it wouldn't surprise me if it soon becomes another I-69C segment. 

I lucked into the opening when I was in south Texas in early March.  The new freeway was open in one direction when I drove it, with the other direction scheduled to open the next day.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #681 on: May 14, 2014, 12:07:12 PM »

The other thing about the " build it and they will come" idea is how many people will use it now that a better road is in place.  Let's take all the hundreds of thousands of trucks that come from Tamulipas (Cuidad Victoria or Monterey) that are bound for DFW or even Houston that cross the border at Nuevo Laredo because they can get on the interstates earlier, and avoid the valley because they don't want to drive the US 77 to US 59 corridor to get to Houston. We are talking. 300 plus miles of lights, intersections, driveways and blind hills.  Like it or not, the red white and blue shield means something. 

It doesn't mean anything that a good US highway or state highway freeway doesn't.  Would, say, OK 51 suddenly become a better road if it were designated as I-144?

Quote
People will go out of their way to stay on interstates because the roads are faster and better.

That's because they are stupid.  A good freeway is a good freeway no matter what type of highway it is: a city freeway, county freeway, state or US highway freeway, or an interstate.  And interstates aren't necessarily better than non-interstate freeways.  For example: the aforementioned US 69 freeway in Kansas is a far better road than I-44 in Missouri, which is just awful.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #682 on: May 14, 2014, 12:07:46 PM »

Everyone seems to think that the “build it and they will come” idea is a pipe dream.   Like they are building roads and praying people will use it.  No, it is more like the second this is finished it will be one of the most heavily traveled roads in America.  I hear you that you think I-69e and I-69C are redundant and on a map they sure look redundant, but their existence is quite needed.  I-69E serves two purposes: for traffic going from Corpus Christi to Houston and traffic going from Corpus Christi to the valley, no more than that.  It serves a link between 3 metro areas.  I-69C would be better if it were numbered an I-X37, because it is more of a branch of I-37.  Ask any truck driver who drives the route between San Antonio (or Austin, or Waco, or Dallas/Ft. Worth) and the valley day in and day out which way he goes to the valley from I-37: US 77 or US 281.  I bet you 10 out of 10 drivers will tell you US 281.  So if you said you were going to upgrade one of them to and interstate, they would emphatically ask for US 281, because it is straighter and more direct.  So, since I-69E is vital for the Corpus Christi connection, with truck traffic that is related to the Valley/Corpus/Houston/Shreveport  corridor, then I-69C is just as vital for the Dallas/Ft. Worth/Waco/Austin/San Antonio/Valley corridor.  I think they are much needed, and as for money, that I can’t tell you about!

A related question: Should the US 69 freeway in eastern Kansas be extended to I-44 in northeastern Oklahoma?  This highway appears to be redundant to the US 71/I-49 corridor in Missouri, but should it be extended as an alternative?

I have always thought I-45 needs extending from Dallas, even though I am a Texan and love the fact we have the only intrastate main interstate in the system!   But seriously, I don't think it would be redundant, seeing how it opens up a direct route from Dallas to Tulsa and possibly Kansas City.  It will keep the trucks off I-35 and/or I-44 for the same purpose.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #683 on: May 14, 2014, 12:13:14 PM »

I'm not talking about the US 69 clusterfuck from Big Cabin to Colbert (except for the section between just south of Muskogee to just north of McAlester, which is a freeway but is in very bad condition), I'm talking about north of I-44.  The US 69 highway from Big Cabin to Muskogee and from McAlester to Colbert is just awful.  I don't see a reason to extend I-45 at this time.  US 69 could be I-47 if you must assign an interstate number to it, which is something I wouldn't do.  The US 69 designation works just fine for it.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #684 on: May 14, 2014, 12:15:11 PM »

The other thing about the " build it and they will come" idea is how many people will use it now that a better road is in place.  Let's take all the hundreds of thousands of trucks that come from Tamulipas (Cuidad Victoria or Monterey) that are bound for DFW or even Houston that cross the border at Nuevo Laredo because they can get on the interstates earlier, and avoid the valley because they don't want to drive the US 77 to US 59 corridor to get to Houston. We are talking. 300 plus miles of lights, intersections, driveways and blind hills.  Like it or not, the red white and blue shield means something. 

It doesn't mean anything that a good US highway or state highway freeway doesn't.  Would, say, OK 51 suddenly become a better road if it were designated as I-144?

Quote
People will go out of their way to stay on interstates because the roads are faster and better.

That's because they are stupid.  A good freeway is a good freeway no matter what type of highway it is: a city freeway, county freeway, state or US highway freeway, or an interstate.  And interstates aren't necessarily better than non-interstate freeways.  For example: the aforementioned US 69 freeway in Kansas is a far better road than I-44 in Missouri, which is just awful.

I understand what you mean, but to the out of state driver (or out of country ) a US highway can be anything from a freeway to a curvy two lane road with no shoulders. The US or state highway shields can't really be trusted. At least with an interstate highway, you know at the absolute least you are garunteed a freeway. Maybe it isn't the absolute best road in the world (Bronx-Queens Expressway) but you are garunteed not to have a traffic light in every powdunk community you drive through. 
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #685 on: May 14, 2014, 12:20:39 PM »

I understand what you mean, but to the out of state driver (or out of country ) a US highway can be anything from a freeway to a curvy two lane road with no shoulders. The US or state highway shields can't really be trusted. At least with an interstate highway, you know at the absolute least you are garunteed (sic) a freeway. Maybe it isn't the absolute best road in the world (Bronx-Queens Expressway) but you are garunteed (sic) not to have a traffic light in every powdunk (sic) community you drive through. 

First, a red-white-blue shield does not guarantee a freeway.  I-180 and I-78 say hi.  Second, a good map has the same colored line for an interstate as it does for a non-interstate freeway.  If you can't look at a map and tell that a blue line means a freeway then maybe you shouldn't be driving.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #686 on: May 14, 2014, 01:29:01 PM »

I understand what you mean, but to the out of state driver (or out of country ) a US highway can be anything from a freeway to a curvy two lane road with no shoulders. The US or state highway shields can't really be trusted. At least with an interstate highway, you know at the absolute least you are garunteed (sic) a freeway. Maybe it isn't the absolute best road in the world (Bronx-Queens Expressway) but you are garunteed (sic) not to have a traffic light in every powdunk (sic) community you drive through. 

First, a red-white-blue shield does not guarantee a freeway.  I-180 and I-78 say hi.  Second, a good map has the same colored line for an interstate as it does for a non-interstate freeway.  If you can't look at a map and tell that a blue line means a freeway then maybe you shouldn't be driving.

So you have given me two examples of non freeway interstates. With Interstate 180 being 1.24 miles long and the approach to the Holland Tunnel being a few blocks long, we are talking a total of maybe 2 miles out of 47,714. I don't think people really stress the fact that those little sections are not freeway so that means all interstates might break into having traffic lights and driveways right up to the main lanes. And we didn't even mention the approach to the Ben Franklin Bridge on I-676 or I-70 in Breezewood. With that added, there might be 5 miles of non freeway interstates. Again out of 47,714 miles, I say you are guaranteed a freeway when you see the shield.
 
I have know of many map publications where interstates are represented with two red lines with blue in the middle and US highways are represented with two red lines with yellow in the middle regardless if they are a freeway or not. So acording to those maps, US 75 from Dallas to Sherman looks the same as US 290 in downtown Fredricksburg with stopłights everywhere and a 30 MPH speed limit.

My point is not my ability to know a freeway or not, it is making the long distance traveler comfortable. US 1 north from Boston through Saugus shows up on Google Maps as a freeway when speaking from experience it is full of sharp curves, blind hills and is signed like any other Massachusetts state highway, which is inconsistent to the national standard to interstates. Sorry, but it is far from an interstate alternative. Texas is bad about having that same thing.  They have several non interstate freeways that couldn't pass the interstate standards test if it tried.  I hate to be like that, but I like the standards because there are no surprises because a state wanted to save a few bucks here or there and made that hill blind and that curve way too tight. Just because a road is a freeway doesn't make it "just as good as an interstate". 
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #687 on: May 14, 2014, 01:39:39 PM »

Well, what happens when you have highways like US59 north of I-10 being better cleaner freeways than I-45 north of I-10. Both will get you to the beltway, but 59 will not take so much thread off your tires.

I am not saying don't build anything. I am saying build smartly when you are crying broke. Right now both C and E aren't needed. Could be handled with just one of them, done correctly. Right now 369 isn't needed. Its really currently just a X49 or X30. Save the money and use it wisely else on the network.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #688 on: May 14, 2014, 10:34:34 PM »




A related question: Should the US 69 freeway in eastern Kansas be extended to I-44 in northeastern Oklahoma?  This highway appears to be redundant to the US 71/I-49 corridor in Missouri, but should it be extended as an alternative?

Yes, I think so


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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #689 on: May 14, 2014, 10:56:46 PM »



First, a red-white-blue shield does not guarantee a freeway.  I-180 and I-78 say hi.  Second, a good map has the same colored line for an interstate as it does for a non-interstate freeway.  If you can't look at a map and tell that a blue line means a freeway then maybe you shouldn't be driving.

Don't forget I-70 in Pennsylvania


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MaxConcrete

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #690 on: May 22, 2014, 06:37:09 PM »

This sign has recently been installed in Sharpstown in southwest Houston. It was not there at Christmas 2013.



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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #691 on: May 22, 2014, 08:18:24 PM »

This sign has recently been installed in Sharpstown in southwest Houston. It was not there at Christmas 2013.




Will this designation just affect the Southwest Freeway, or any regional/statewide section of I-69 in TX?
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #692 on: May 22, 2014, 08:37:11 PM »

This sign has recently been installed in Sharpstown in southwest Houston. It was not there at Christmas 2013.




Will this designation just affect the Southwest Freeway, or any regional/statewide section of I-69 in TX?

Wiki says U.S. 59 in Texas has the distinction of carrying the late senator's name.  Surprised it's not the highway that goes to Mission, which I thought was his hometown.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #693 on: May 22, 2014, 08:53:03 PM »


This sign has recently been installed in Sharpstown in southwest Houston. It was not there at Christmas 2013.



A sign you would never see in Arkansas.


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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #694 on: May 22, 2014, 09:08:47 PM »


A sign you would never see in Arkansas.

or in Indianapolis
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #695 on: May 22, 2014, 09:12:11 PM »

Arkansas gets this guy:

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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #696 on: May 22, 2014, 10:32:45 PM »

This sign has recently been installed in Sharpstown in southwest Houston. It was not there at Christmas 2013.




Will this designation just affect the Southwest Freeway, or any regional/statewide section of I-69 in TX?

Texas Transportation Code:
Sec. 225.025.  SENATOR LLOYD BENTSEN HIGHWAY.  (a)  The part of U.S. Highway 59 from its intersection with Interstate Highway 45 to its intersection with Interstate Highway 35 is the Senator Lloyd Bentsen Highway.

Edit: That whole chapter of the code is interesting.  http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.225.htm
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:50:04 PM by wxfree »
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #697 on: May 23, 2014, 12:52:18 AM »

Arkansas gets this guy:

(John Paul Hammerschmidt)

There ought to be a law that you can't name a public highway, building, etc., after someone until they've been dead a few years.
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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #698 on: May 23, 2014, 12:55:20 AM »


Arkansas gets this guy:


Too bad he isn't around for the Bella Vista Bypass and Arkansas River Bridge


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Re: I-69 in TX
« Reply #699 on: May 23, 2014, 10:08:59 AM »


Arkansas gets this guy:


Too bad he isn't around for the Bella Vista Bypass and Arkansas River Bridge

He was born in 1922.  I was born in 1973.  I won't live to see either of those roads completed, much less somebody 50 years older than me.
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