AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)  (Read 5551 times)

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« on: January 12, 2012, 11:53:36 PM »

I'd be willing to make an educated guess that in Virginia's case it's both raw miles and percentage-wise. Virginia has a tad under 58,000 miles of state-maintained highways, and those include many roads that in other states might be considered "local." Two counties maintain their own roads (except Interstates) for historical reasons, and the independent cities all maintain their own roads. There are also some other roads that are not the responsibility of any governmental entity; most often those are the responsibility of homeowners' associations and the like. At least here in Fairfax County, often when a planned community is built the street that leads in and out will become part of the "VDOT system" while the streets on which people live (which are often, though certainly not always, cul-de-sacs) are left to the HOA. My street is maintained by the HOA and gets paved more frequently, and to a higher standard, than the VDOT-maintained street that connects my street to the primary grid.

In my opinion, it's important to emphasize that Fairfax County is a very suburban (and even urban) place (as are some other counties in the Commonwealth, including Fairfax's neighbors Prince William and Loudoun Counties, as well as parts of Stafford and Spotsylvania Counties (bordering Fredericksburg), and Chesterfield County (to the south and west of Richmond)).  Virginia's "other" big urban area, Hampton Roads, is mostly made-up of cities, so VDOT maintains the freeways but not much else there.

As you said above, HOA's maintain some of the "small" streets in Fairfax County, but it always amazes me how many small subdivision streets have been dutifully assigned a four- or even five-digit VDOT secondary system route number. 

Regarding pavement condition and speaking of VDOT secondary system routes, I was absolutely shocked at the terrible condition of the pavement of Va. 7100 (Fairfax County Parkway) (functionally classed as an expressway but part of the secondary system anyway) when I recently drove a long segment of it south of I-66. 

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 05:17:26 PM by cpzilliacus »
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5179
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 12:41:49 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 12:06:41 AM »

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" [VA] 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

Has a specific number ever been proposed?

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

http://virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf
Logged
Scott M. Kozel
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting died.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 12:42:15 AM »

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" [VA] 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

Has a specific number ever been proposed?

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

http://virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf

44 used to be the old (tolled) Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway, before it was redesignated part of I-264.

It would be a nice and easy to remember replacement for 7100, wouldn't it?
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5179
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 12:41:49 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 07:22:24 AM »

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" [VA] 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

Has a specific number ever been proposed?

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

http://virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf

44 used to be the old (tolled) Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway, before it was redesignated part of I-264.

It would be a nice and easy to remember replacement for 7100, wouldn't it?

Some have proposed that 44 be used for a Raleigh-Norfolk Interstate highway, since neither state has a Route 44 currently, and that 44 would fit the Interstate numbering system for that route.
Logged
Scott M. Kozel
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting died.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 08:45:03 AM »

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" [VA] 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

Has a specific number ever been proposed?

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

http://virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf

44 used to be the old (tolled) Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway, before it was redesignated part of I-264.

It would be a nice and easy to remember replacement for 7100, wouldn't it?

Some have proposed that 44 be used for a Raleigh-Norfolk Interstate highway, since neither state has a Route 44 currently, and that 44 would fit the Interstate numbering system for that route.

Though there is an I-44 further west (not that this really should matter, as other east-west Interstate route numbers are repeated).

No reason that Va. 7100 should become Va. 44, but given how much  traffic uses the  route, it would seem to make sense to use a relatively low number.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5179
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 12:41:49 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 11:54:02 AM »

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" [VA] 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

Has a specific number ever been proposed?

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

http://virginiadot.org/info/resources/route-index-07012003.pdf

44 used to be the old (tolled) Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway, before it was redesignated part of I-264.

It would be a nice and easy to remember replacement for 7100, wouldn't it?

Some have proposed that 44 be used for a Raleigh-Norfolk Interstate highway, since neither state has a Route 44 currently, and that 44 would fit the Interstate numbering system for that route.

Though there is an I-44 further west (not that this really should matter, as other east-west Interstate route numbers are repeated).

No reason that Va. 7100 should become Va. 44, but given how much  traffic uses the  route, it would seem to make sense to use a relatively low number.

I agree that a lower number seems to indicate higher importance, at least in a primary system.  I would go with the lowest possible, and that would be Route VA-12 for the Fairfax County Parkway, and Route VA-25 for the Franconia-Springfield Parkway.
Logged
Scott M. Kozel
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting died.

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10185
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 01:34:48 PM »

....

Regarding pavement condition and speaking of VDOT secondary system routes, I was absolutely shocked at the terrible condition of the pavement of Va. 7100 (Fairfax County Parkway) (functionally classed as an expressway but part of the secondary system anyway) when I recently drove a long segment of it south of I-66. 

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

I have no idea. I'd suggest asking froggie. I agree with you about the deplorable pavement. I drive on the part of it south of I-66 all the time, especially whenever I have to go to or from Fairfax City at rush hour because it moves better than the Beltway. I still think of it as a fairly new road and it's surprised me just how quickly large parts of it have deteriorated. I recall when George Allen was governor he wanted the speed limit on much of that road raised to 65 mph. I was for it then, but I'm not for it any longer unless they do some serious repaving work.

Incidentally, regarding small subdivision streets you do make a good point. My parents live just east of Fairfax City and their subdivision is entirely in the VDOT system, whereas I live in Kingstowne and mine isn't. Our streets ALWAYS get plowed long before theirs do (and they live at the bottom of a hill with the only way out being to go up the hill, so it affects them even more; their all-wheel drive Volvo sedan doesn't help much in a deep snowfall like we had in 2010).

I suppose one of the moderators ought to split this off since we're getting off-topic as to the Pennsylvania Turnpike, for which I take partial blame.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 04:53:24 PM »

....

Regarding pavement condition and speaking of VDOT secondary system routes, I was absolutely shocked at the terrible condition of the pavement of Va. 7100 (Fairfax County Parkway) (functionally classed as an expressway but part of the secondary system anyway) when I recently drove a long segment of it south of I-66. 

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

I have no idea. I'd suggest asking froggie. I agree with you about the deplorable pavement. I drive on the part of it south of I-66 all the time, especially whenever I have to go to or from Fairfax City at rush hour because it moves better than the Beltway. I still think of it as a fairly new road and it's surprised me just how quickly large parts of it have deteriorated. I recall when George Allen was governor he wanted the speed limit on much of that road raised to 65 mph. I was for it then, but I'm not for it any longer unless they do some serious repaving work.

The only section that has decent pavement now is between I-95 at Newington and Va. 7900.

In my opinion, 50 MPH is plenty fast enough for Va. 7100, as long as it has at-grade intersections (of course, many  people think they are on I-495 and drive the road at much higher speeds).  Far too many "serious" wrecks at those intersections for a higher speed limit right now.

Agreed that it still seems like a new highway.

I think the pavement has suffered from heavy use by commercial vehicles (especially trucks with heavy axle loadings, like dump trucks and refuse trucks), which are allowed on the road even though it's called a "parkway."

Wonder how often the VSP weight enforcement teams work the road with portable scales?  I don't think the Fairfax County Police has scales, though at least in the past, they had a superb commercial vehicle safety unit.

Quote
Incidentally, regarding small subdivision streets you do make a good point. My parents live just east of Fairfax City and their subdivision is entirely in the VDOT system, whereas I live in Kingstowne and mine isn't. Our streets ALWAYS get plowed long before theirs do (and they live at the bottom of a hill with the only way out being to go up the hill, so it affects them even more; their all-wheel drive Volvo sedan doesn't help much in a deep snowfall like we had in 2010).

That happened in my townhome community in Montgomery County (near U.S. 29 and Md. 200) as well (all of the public roads leading to the property are maintained by the County DOT).  I suspect that when we get a heavy snowfall, MdTA's maintenance forces will have Md. 200 down to bare pavement no matter how much precipitation falls.

Quote
I suppose one of the moderators ought to split this off since we're getting off-topic as to the Pennsylvania Turnpike, for which I take partial blame.

Agreed.  Thank you, moderators.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10185
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 01:02:27 PM »

....

Regarding pavement condition and speaking of VDOT secondary system routes, I was absolutely shocked at the terrible condition of the pavement of Va. 7100 (Fairfax County Parkway) (functionally classed as an expressway but part of the secondary system anyway) when I recently drove a long segment of it south of I-66. 

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

I have no idea. I'd suggest asking froggie. I agree with you about the deplorable pavement. I drive on the part of it south of I-66 all the time, especially whenever I have to go to or from Fairfax City at rush hour because it moves better than the Beltway. I still think of it as a fairly new road and it's surprised me just how quickly large parts of it have deteriorated. I recall when George Allen was governor he wanted the speed limit on much of that road raised to 65 mph. I was for it then, but I'm not for it any longer unless they do some serious repaving work.

The only section that has decent pavement now is between I-95 at Newington and Va. 7900.

....

I hedged my comment because I almost never use the portion between Sunset Hills Road and the Parkway's northern end at Route 7. I think I've used that segment at most twice since it opened, so I simply had no basis for comment at all on that portion's pavement.

The main reason I think of it as a new road is that it didn't exist when I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 7100)
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 12:26:39 PM »

....

Regarding pavement condition and speaking of VDOT secondary system routes, I was absolutely shocked at the terrible condition of the pavement of Va. 7100 (Fairfax County Parkway) (functionally classed as an expressway but part of the secondary system anyway) when I recently drove a long segment of it south of I-66. 

Do you know if the long-discussed plans to "promote" 7100 to the primary system have gone anywhere?

I have no idea. I'd suggest asking froggie. I agree with you about the deplorable pavement. I drive on the part of it south of I-66 all the time, especially whenever I have to go to or from Fairfax City at rush hour because it moves better than the Beltway. I still think of it as a fairly new road and it's surprised me just how quickly large parts of it have deteriorated. I recall when George Allen was governor he wanted the speed limit on much of that road raised to 65 mph. I was for it then, but I'm not for it any longer unless they do some serious repaving work.

The only section that has decent pavement now is between I-95 at Newington and Va. 7900.

....

I hedged my comment because I almost never use the portion between Sunset Hills Road and the Parkway's northern end at Route 7. I think I've used that segment at most twice since it opened, so I simply had no basis for comment at all on that portion's pavement.

The main reason I think of it as a new road is that it didn't exist when I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s.

The segment of 7100 north of Va. 267 (Dulles Toll Road) has some winding sections, and like the rest of the road, there are a few at-grade signalized intersections. 

I have not driven for some time (my most-recent trip on it was in June or July of 2011), and the pavement was not nearly as bad as segments between I-66 and Va. 7900 - but keep in mind that this section is relatively new (the only newer segment is between I-95 and Va. 7900, which is still in near-pristine condition).
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 05:19:27 PM »

GreaterGreater Washington: Tolls could be coming to Fairfax County Parkway, and you can weigh in

Quote
The Fairfax County Parkway will be getting a makeover, and the updated highway could include toll lanes. The Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) and the Fairfax County Department of Transportation (FCDOT) are now looking for public input on how to improve a 31-mile stretch of the parkway from Route 7 in Herndon to the Route 1 Corridor.

Quote
VDOT completed a short term study in 2017 that focused on improvements that could be implemented within the next 10 years. This followup long-term study will assess existing and future transportation issues and develop long-term multimodal solutions, possibly including High Occupancy Toll (HOT) or High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Jmiles32

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 413
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Gainesville, VA
  • Last Login: August 15, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 05:57:31 PM »

North of I-66, HOT lanes on VA-28 would be far more effective. South of I-66, VA-286 should be widened to six lanes all the way to I-95. The upcoming project to widen VA-286 from US-29 to VA-123 will knock out a significant portion. Toll lanes here would be overwhelmingly opposed. While some new interchanges here and there would be helpful too, even that is extremely unlikely.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/northernvirginia/ffx_co_pkwy_widening.asp
Logged

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10185
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2018, 04:31:39 PM »

Thursday night at our HOA meeting, someone asked Jeff McKay (Lee District's member of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors) about "the plans to toll the Fairfax County Parkway," so there's clearly misinformation out there—she thought it was to become a toll road. McKay correctly pointed out the current VDOT survey that's online is to gauge public opinion about options. He said one major thing the county would like VDOT to do is to figure out a way to allow for express bus lanes, whether as part of HOV or HO/T lanes or via some other design, so as to allow for bus routes to tie into Phase II of the Silver Line as well as improved transit access from our part of the county to places like Reston Town Center (recognizing no rational people who have any choice would ride the Blue Line down to Rosslyn and then the Silver Line all the way back out to Reston).

McKay was very much against HO/T lanes on the Parkway. He opposed the I-95/I-395 HO/T lanes and he feels they don't work; he was less negative about the Beltway (no doubt in part because they didn't take existing lanes to create the HO/T facility). I do think he made a valid point that HO/T lanes would probably be more difficult to implement on a largely arterial-type road like the Parkway than on an Interstate, especially a road with traffic lights and at-grade turns. He didn't really discuss that further, but it's a major consideration—if you add HO/T lanes within the current footprint, the traffic light cycles could potentially become a lot more complicated (and delay traffic a lot more) unless you use creative intersection designs (jughandles, anyone?); in addition, it might cause problems for the neighborhoods that access the Parkway at intersections that don't have traffic lights. I'm not sure how you'd work it for traffic wanting to leave the HO/T lanes.

I responded to the survey. One of the things I'd like them to do is to get rid of the traffic light at Popes Head Road, either via a SPUI (traffic light on Popes Head) or perhaps a diamond with roundabouts on Popes Head. That's currently the only traffic light between Burke and Route 50 and it seems to back up traffic more than it really should (I don't know why).



BTW, the GGW writer is confused about HOV versus HO/T lanes:

Quote
HOV lanes are available to carpoolers, buses, and other exempt vehicles without charge, while other vehicles are required to pay a fee that is adjusted in response to demand. Similarly, HOT lanes restrict traffic in designated lanes for vehicles with at least two or three people. The difference is a driver of a car with only one person can also use it if they pay a toll. This can help a municipality further reduce traffic in the regular lanes while monetizing the unused capacity in the express lanes.

The "fee" imposed on SOVs in an HOV lane is called a "fine" and it varies based not on demand but on how many HOV tickets you've gotten.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 04:34:02 PM by 1995hoo »
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Jmiles32

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 413
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Gainesville, VA
  • Last Login: August 15, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2018, 06:55:10 PM »

I responded to the survey. One of the things I'd like them to do is to get rid of the traffic light at Popes Head Road, either via a SPUI (traffic light on Popes Head) or perhaps a diamond with roundabouts on Popes Head. That's currently the only traffic light between Burke and Route 50 and it seems to back up traffic more than it really should (I don't know why).

As part of the upcoming VA-286 widening project, your wish will be granted. Shirley Gate Road will also be extended down and tied into this interchange.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/NorthernVirginia/Displays_-_Popes_Head_Interchange_Options_2A_2D_and_Route_123_Interchange_-_Fairfax_County_Parkway_Widening_Public_Informa.pdf
Logged

Roadsguy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1481
  • Age: 20
  • Location: Here
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 05:50:28 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2018, 10:26:25 PM »

I responded to the survey. One of the things I'd like them to do is to get rid of the traffic light at Popes Head Road, either via a SPUI (traffic light on Popes Head) or perhaps a diamond with roundabouts on Popes Head. That's currently the only traffic light between Burke and Route 50 and it seems to back up traffic more than it really should (I don't know why).

As part of the upcoming VA-286 widening project, your wish will be granted. Shirley Gate Road will also be extended down and tied into this interchange.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/NorthernVirginia/Displays_-_Popes_Head_Interchange_Options_2A_2D_and_Route_123_Interchange_-_Fairfax_County_Parkway_Widening_Public_Informa.pdf

Too bad it won't quite be fully freeway between US 50 and VA 123.
Logged
[thing you don't like] is better than [thing you like]

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10185
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 11:40:49 AM »

The Shirley Gate Road extension ought to change traffic patterns considerably in that area.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10698
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 11:30:56 PM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 05:50:58 PM »

I'd rather see them work to remove the signal at Burke Centre Pkwy.  Removing the signals would do more for traffic flow than widening that section of 286 (nee 7100).
Logged

Roadsguy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1481
  • Age: 20
  • Location: Here
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 05:50:28 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 07:23:48 PM »

I'd rather see them work to remove the signal at Burke Centre Pkwy.  Removing the signals would do more for traffic flow than widening that section of 286 (nee 7100).

They are. They're turning it into a large RIRO.
Logged
[thing you don't like] is better than [thing you like]

Duke87

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5228
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Queens, NY
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 11:01:21 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2018, 08:37:50 PM »

I do think he made a valid point that HO/T lanes would probably be more difficult to implement on a largely arterial-type road like the Parkway than on an Interstate, especially a road with traffic lights and at-grade turns. He didn't really discuss that further, but it's a major consideration—if you add HO/T lanes within the current footprint, the traffic light cycles could potentially become a lot more complicated (and delay traffic a lot more) unless you use creative intersection designs (jughandles, anyone?)

It *is* possible to build quad-carriageway arterial without jughandles or fancy signal phasing, look at roads like Grand Concourse or Queens Blvd in New York City. Following those examples the way it'd work would be that left turns would only ever be allowed from the inner roadways, right turns would only ever be allowed from the outer roadways, and slip ramps would allow traffic to move between them. This gets awkward when one pair of roadways is tolled and the other is not, but it'd still be workable - place the toll gantries such that you do not pass under one if you enter the inner roadway at a slip ramp and then make the next legal left turn.

All that said, IMO paying a toll to use a roadway that will still involve having to stop at red lights is a pretty raw deal. A better solution would be to just completely grade separate the HOT lanes, turning them into a mini-freeway along the corridor.
Logged
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Roadsguy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1481
  • Age: 20
  • Location: Here
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 05:50:28 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2018, 09:03:45 PM »

I do think he made a valid point that HO/T lanes would probably be more difficult to implement on a largely arterial-type road like the Parkway than on an Interstate, especially a road with traffic lights and at-grade turns. He didn't really discuss that further, but it's a major consideration—if you add HO/T lanes within the current footprint, the traffic light cycles could potentially become a lot more complicated (and delay traffic a lot more) unless you use creative intersection designs (jughandles, anyone?)

It *is* possible to build quad-carriageway arterial without jughandles or fancy signal phasing, look at roads like Grand Concourse or Queens Blvd in New York City. Following those examples the way it'd work would be that left turns would only ever be allowed from the inner roadways, right turns would only ever be allowed from the outer roadways, and slip ramps would allow traffic to move between them. This gets awkward when one pair of roadways is tolled and the other is not, but it'd still be workable - place the toll gantries such that you do not pass under one if you enter the inner roadway at a slip ramp and then make the next legal left turn.

All that said, IMO paying a toll to use a roadway that will still involve having to stop at red lights is a pretty raw deal. A better solution would be to just completely grade separate the HOT lanes, turning them into a mini-freeway along the corridor.

If Roosevelt Boulevard in northeast Philly is any indication, that model is not the answer.

They could cheat and do what NCDOT will do with US 74 entering Charlotte, having it be a free-flowing Jersey freeway with occasional grade separations and controlled-access toll lanes in the middle, but then they'd still need to build grade separations. Also, since the road is already a surface expressway, doing this would just turn it into a substandard freeway.
Logged
[thing you don't like] is better than [thing you like]

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10698
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 11:30:56 PM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 10:41:40 PM »

I'd rather see them work to remove the signal at Burke Centre Pkwy.  Removing the signals would do more for traffic flow than widening that section of 286 (nee 7100).

They are. They're turning it into a large RIRO.

At Burke, but not at Ladues/Nomes.  Granted, the latter doesn't currently have a signal, but it is still an at-grade intersection that will remain (albeit revised) after the project.

Nevermind that the corridor is much longer than the segment this project covers.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2018, 01:51:47 AM »

I'd rather see them work to remove the signal at Burke Centre Pkwy.  Removing the signals would do more for traffic flow than widening that section of 286 (nee 7100).

They are. They're turning it into a large RIRO.

At Burke, but not at Ladues/Nomes.  Granted, the latter doesn't currently have a signal, but it is still an at-grade intersection that will remain (albeit revised) after the project.
I'd rather see them work to remove the signal at Burke Centre Pkwy.  Removing the signals would do more for traffic flow than widening that section of 286 (nee 7100).

Nevermind that the corridor is much longer than the segment this project covers.

I would love to see the at-grade crossing at VA-644 (Old Keene Mill Road) replaced by anything that results in a grade separation.  There have been many crashes here since this part of 286 (7100) was opened to traffic.  Not sure if there's a common cause for the injury and fatal crashes here, though I speculate that speed (lots of drivers (the ones that pass me when I am doing between 50 MPH and 55 MPH) think they can drive this highway as if it were an Interstate, which it is definitely not) and the angle at which 644 approaches the intersection may be factors.

For the record, I do not live in Virginia, but drive this road sometimes anyway.  It is one place in Virginia where I applaud law enforcement (usually Fairfax County Police) for doing massive (and massively visible) speed limit enforcement, presumably including writing more than a few reckless driving tickets for 20 MPH over the posted limit, usually 50 MPH.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:56:22 AM by cpzilliacus »
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

AlexandriaVA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1055
  • Location: Virginia
  • Last Login: August 17, 2019, 12:45:02 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 05:29:57 PM »

I think the goal should be for all Northern Virginia arterial highways to be dynamically tolled in some capacity, combined with investments in park-and-ride facilities, local road network speed limit reductions, investment in off-peak Metrorail frequency, and strategic investment in Metrorail-like bus corridors (I-395 corridor comes to mind).
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10268
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2018, 10:47:03 PM »

I think the goal should be for all Northern Virginia arterial highways to be dynamically tolled in some capacity, combined with investments in park-and-ride facilities, local road network speed limit reductions, investment in off-peak Metrorail frequency, and strategic investment in Metrorail-like bus corridors (I-395 corridor comes to mind).

I doubt that tolling on arterial roads gets through the Virginia General Assembly (and if any federal dollars were used to build those arterials, I believe it is prohibited by federal law anyway), and it seems pretty clear that the Senators and Delegates are not interested in providing more money to WMATA, given the expert way that the leadership of ATU Local 689 is able to create more enemies than could possibly be put to good use.

Off-peak Metrorail service is not likely to happen on weekends and holidays (at least), given that there is a lot of repair and rehabilitation work to be done, with plenty of single-tracking and total closures still to come. 

Regarding I-395-style bus corridors, there are two others now, I-66 and the 495Express lanes.  Not sure where there should be more of them.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

famartin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 231
  • Location: Washington DC suburbs
  • Last Login: August 18, 2019, 05:49:11 PM
Re: Fairfax County Pkwy (VA SR 286)
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 09:33:27 PM »

Just seeing this now... tollling was shot down by the survey feedback, along with HOV lanes.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/second-round-parkway-meetings-scheduled-tolls-eliminated-future-option/

New survey (act fast, only taking responses thru May 6)
https://form.jotform.com/90766064866166

Naturally I voted in favor of widening and interchanges for all segments.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.