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Author Topic: District of Columbia  (Read 210099 times)

1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #875 on: September 08, 2018, 11:56:51 AM »

Steve Anderson has a photo of the rightmost sign on his DC Roads site, IIRC.

I have not been over that way since I took the pictures I posted above and won’t be heading that way today (baseball doubleheader to which I have a ticket, plus the flooding on Rock Creek Parkway is still an issue per the last traffic report I heard).
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

roadman65

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #876 on: October 23, 2018, 03:19:19 PM »

I was reading about the Connecticut Avenue tunnel under Dupont Circle as originally it was not there prior to 1941 circa and was added to alleviate congestion at the circle obviously.

I also noticed the statue in the center of the circle is directly on top the deck that covers the tunnel.  The statue (and fountain with it) which is a memorial to Dupont, was built and placed in 1921 years before the tunnel.   I am going to say that during construction of the cut and cover tunnel the fountain and statue must of been removed and placed back upon completion.  However, the Washington Metro Red Line is presently beneath the tunnel with its station going the whole length of the underpass deep beneath it.

I assume the Metro was not cut and cover and that the station was bored through hence the long escalators leading down to the station on both north and south ends of Dupont Circle.   Like most stations on the system they are normally deep.  So basically the whole tunnel placement of the transit lines are more than likely bored.

I was also noticing that where Connecticut Avenue spans the gorge of Rock Creek the Red Line is still beneath the road despite the bridge across the gorge has no lower level.  So I assume also the dept of the line under Dupont Circle is that way to begin its very deep descent so that it passes under Rock Creek which is over 130 feel beneath CT Avenue.
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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #877 on: October 23, 2018, 03:25:31 PM »

Quote
So basically the whole tunnel placement of the transit lines are more than likely bored.

Not true.  Much of the Green Line was cut-and-cover, especially along 7th St NW.

Quote
I was also noticing that where Connecticut Avenue spans the gorge of Rock Creek the Red Line is still beneath the road despite the bridge across the gorge has no lower level.  So I assume also the dept of the line under Dupont Circle is that way to begin its very deep descent so that it passes under Rock Creek which is over 130 feel beneath CT Avenue.

Not the case for Dupont Circle, as that station is almost a mile from Rock Creek and the depth of the Red Line at Dupont Circle is actually about the same "elevation" as Rock Creek is underneath Connecticut Ave...remember, the street climbs a hill for most of that mile between Dupont Circle and Rock Creek.

Instead, this is a better explanation for the depth at the Woodley Park station.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #878 on: October 23, 2018, 04:14:19 PM »

I believe the Connecticut Avenue underpass was constructed using part of the old streetcar station, rather than via cut-and-cover.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

davewiecking

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #879 on: October 23, 2018, 05:02:11 PM »

See www.dupontunderground.org for current use of old streetcar station. Streetcar tracks had too tight a turning radius to be usable for Metro, so they went deeper.
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roadman65

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #880 on: October 23, 2018, 05:12:28 PM »

See www.dupontunderground.org for current use of old streetcar station. Streetcar tracks had too tight a turning radius to be usable for Metro, so they went deeper.
I believe that 1995 was talking about the road not the transit line.   

However, your answer is feasible to why they went deep for the subway.  Plus the street car tunnel is being used as a mall or something.  Anyway, Froggie brought up an interesting point too that CT Avenue is not level and the topography of the city is that further north you go the rise occurs.  That said the Dupont Station is level with the tunnel under Rock Creek.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #881 on: October 23, 2018, 06:49:52 PM »

I was referring to the road, but he's right that the streetcar facility was found to be unsuitable for the subway.

The old streetcar facility was a food court for a little while, but that failed and closed. One side has been used as a short-term arts venue on occasion, but it generally sits abandoned.

I read somewhere that one reason the Red Line is as deep as it is has to do with the soil—apparently going deeper may have meant more stable ground. But that doesn't explain why the SOB Lines just south of there aren't all that deep (the Red Line passes under the SOB Lines near Farragut Square, though it passes over them at Metro Center). There was some cut-and-cover work around there.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Beltway

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #882 on: October 23, 2018, 09:23:53 PM »

Rock Creek valley helped govern the depth of line under Conn. Ave.  It was decided to tunnel completely under the valley.
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abefroman329

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #883 on: October 24, 2018, 02:41:02 PM »

Rock Creek valley helped govern the depth of line under Conn. Ave.  It was decided to tunnel completely under the valley.
Only because the alternative was a bridge over Rock Creek and the NPS didn’t like due aesthetics of that.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #884 on: October 24, 2018, 03:01:36 PM »

Rock Creek valley helped govern the depth of line under Conn. Ave.  It was decided to tunnel completely under the valley.
Only because the alternative was a bridge over Rock Creek and the NPS didn’t like due aesthetics of that.

I recall that they felt that  a new bridge would be especially intrusive given that southbound Beach Drive, N.W. (the main north-south motor road through Rock Creek Park) emerged from the Zoo Tunnel to see the Duke Ellington (Calvert Street, N.W.) bridge and the  William Howard Taft Bridge (Connecticut Avenue, N.W.), and potentially a new (but lower) bridge for the Red Line would contribute little.
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abefroman329

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #885 on: October 24, 2018, 03:34:16 PM »

The old streetcar facility was a food court for a little while, but that failed and closed. One side has been used as a short-term arts venue on occasion, but it generally sits abandoned.
When I moved to DC in 2001, the attempt to turn it into something resembling Underground Atlanta had just failed.

Another reason the tunnels are deeper than normal is the fact that the earth under the streets is a rat’s nest of buried utilities, some of which don’t officially exist.
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BrianP

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #886 on: October 24, 2018, 03:51:53 PM »

The old streetcar facility was a food court for a little while, but that failed and closed. One side has been used as a short-term arts venue on occasion, but it generally sits abandoned.
When I moved to DC in 2001, the attempt to turn it into something resembling Underground Atlanta had just failed.

Another reason the tunnels are deeper than normal is the fact that the earth under the streets is a rat’s nest of buried utilities, some of which don’t officially exist.
E.g.
Quote
There were also some only-in-DC problems. The Great Society Subway notes that "near the White House, engineers were warned away from secret communications links, including the famous Hot Line to Moscow."
https://architectofthecapital.org/posts/2016/6/22/metro-under-construction
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abefroman329

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #887 on: October 24, 2018, 04:26:13 PM »

The old streetcar facility was a food court for a little while, but that failed and closed. One side has been used as a short-term arts venue on occasion, but it generally sits abandoned.
When I moved to DC in 2001, the attempt to turn it into something resembling Underground Atlanta had just failed.

Another reason the tunnels are deeper than normal is the fact that the earth under the streets is a rat’s nest of buried utilities, some of which don’t officially exist.
E.g.
Quote
There were also some only-in-DC problems. The Great Society Subway notes that "near the White House, engineers were warned away from secret communications links, including the famous Hot Line to Moscow."
https://architectofthecapital.org/posts/2016/6/22/metro-under-construction
Yeah, this also came up during construction of the Silver Line.
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Beltway

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #888 on: October 24, 2018, 11:19:06 PM »

Rock Creek valley helped govern the depth of line under Conn. Ave.  It was decided to tunnel completely under the valley.
Only because the alternative was a bridge over Rock Creek and the NPS didn’t like due aesthetics of that.

One of the proposed lines was deep enough that the bridge was low in the valley and thereby relatively short.  I saw a rendering back then and it looked decent enough aesthetically.
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Scott M. Savage
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #889 on: October 26, 2018, 05:25:06 PM »

Rock Creek valley helped govern the depth of line under Conn. Ave.  It was decided to tunnel completely under the valley.
Only because the alternative was a bridge over Rock Creek and the NPS didn’t like due aesthetics of that.

One of the proposed lines was deep enough that the bridge was low in the valley and thereby relatively short.  I saw a rendering back then and it looked decent enough aesthetically.

I have a memory of the National  Park Service (back in the 1970's, before even the initial part of the Red Line opened between Rhode Island Avenue and Farragut North in March 1976) effectively saying not just no, but hell no to any new bridge crossing the Rock Creek stream valley here.

The NPS did allow WMATA's contractors to build a temporary bridge over the creek as part of the Red Line construction work, but that was removed long ago.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #890 on: November 28, 2018, 09:41:39 AM »

Closing the loop on the famous I-66 sign bridge, I still haven't driven past there in several months (I've been home sick this week anyway), but I just found this on Wikipedia while looking for something else:



The following link is to the full-size image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/2018-10-25_13_51_18_View_west_along_Interstate_66_%28Potomac_River_Freeway%29_from_the_overpass_for_Triangle_Park-Virginia_Avenue-New_Hampshire_Avenue-25th_Street_in_Washington%2C_D.C..jpg
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mergingtraffic

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #891 on: November 28, 2018, 06:23:29 PM »

Closing the loop on the famous I-66 sign bridge, I still haven't driven past there in several months (I've been home sick this week anyway), but I just found this on Wikipedia while looking for something else:



The following link is to the full-size image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/2018-10-25_13_51_18_View_west_along_Interstate_66_%28Potomac_River_Freeway%29_from_the_overpass_for_Triangle_Park-Virginia_Avenue-New_Hampshire_Avenue-25th_Street_in_Washington%2C_D.C..jpg


So what was under wood panel originally?  I know there was a sign OVER the wood panel but what was under the panel originally in the 60s?
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #892 on: November 28, 2018, 06:30:04 PM »

There are pictures earlier in this thread that show what was under the wood panel on the left. Here's a link to froggie's post that started the discussion: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=714.msg2351299#msg2351299

The wood panel on the far right covered a sign for Rock Creek Parkway and the Kennedy Center. That sign was actually visible for a long time until the exit in question was closed, whereas the sign on the left was never visible.

BTW, neither wood panel ever had a sign over the wood.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 06:32:36 PM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:00:24 AM by cpzilliacus »
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #894 on: December 14, 2018, 09:52:17 AM »

Can't view the sign—it requires a Facebook login.

There's already some sort of overnight construction underway on I-295 and it's a crapshoot whether it gets mentioned on the WTOP traffic reports. We sometimes take the 11th Street Bridge to I-295 to come home from Caps games in order to avoid the roadwork on I-395. This past Tuesday they mentioned the backup on I-295 extending across the bridge, so we took I-395 and found they had failed to mention the closure of the two left lanes passing Shirlington.  :banghead: Maybe we'll start using US-1 through Old Town. (The Metro is not a good option because the arena now restricts what size bag you can bring in. My briefcase is not allowed, so I drive on gamedays and then stash it in the car. No secure place to leave it at the office.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

abefroman329

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #895 on: December 14, 2018, 09:54:56 AM »

Can't view the sign—it requires a Facebook login
It’s a dead link anyway.
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Roadsguy

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #896 on: December 14, 2018, 09:55:20 AM »

Can't view the sign—it requires a Facebook login.

I'm logged in and I can't see it either.
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #897 on: December 14, 2018, 11:41:57 AM »

It's not a dead link.  You have to be friends with CP on Facebook in order to view it.

(This is why I typically don't post Facebook links on this forum).

For Hoo:  it's a side-mounted orange construction sign that says "Road Work Next 7 Miles" with I-295 and DC 295 shields below the writing and www.improving295dc.com on the bottom.  It's more specific location is southbound adjacent to the northernmost of the 3 pedestrian crossings between Eastern and Nannie Helen Burroughs.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 11:46:00 AM by froggie »
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PurdueBill

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #898 on: December 14, 2018, 12:33:25 PM »

Closing the loop on the famous I-66 sign bridge, I still haven't driven past there in several months (I've been home sick this week anyway), but I just found this on Wikipedia while looking for something else:



The following link is to the full-size image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/2018-10-25_13_51_18_View_west_along_Interstate_66_%28Potomac_River_Freeway%29_from_the_overpass_for_Triangle_Park-Virginia_Avenue-New_Hampshire_Avenue-25th_Street_in_Washington%2C_D.C..jpg

The different rounding on the corners of adjacent signs is noticeable (in a still photo, anyway--maybe not at speed on the road, then again maybe not to most people but probably noticeable to us). 
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