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Author Topic: S-H 130  (Read 8769 times)

WAXIEDOS

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S-H 130
« on: October 29, 2012, 03:48:21 PM »

Can anyone help me with info concerning the entrances and exits for the new Texas
Toll Hwy SH-130?  I'm trying to get to the brand-new "Circuit of the Americas"
track in a week. Neither the circuit nor the new highway are on any maps yet!
Thanks,
ROGER
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 03:53:37 PM »

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 04:26:44 PM »

The concession company web site has a page with directions to the parking lots, as well as shuttle pick-up points for the big event later.  It could be good for business on the road.

There are two exits listed, depending on your parking destination.  The exit for the north parking lots is 450 and for the south parking lots is 453.

http://mysh130.com/get-connected/cota/
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 04:29:56 PM »

I worked out in that area briefly.  Getting around the area immediately around the track is going to be a mess.
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 09:00:01 PM »

Related to SH 130... why are the exits in the upper 400's?

J N Winkler

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 09:09:01 PM »

Related to SH 130... why are the exits in the upper 400's?

Because the exit numbers are derived from TxDOT's Uniform Location Reference System, which puts the entire state in the southeast quadrant of an imaginary grid which has its origin point at a place in New Mexico where the latitude line that overlaps the northern boundary of the Texas panhandle intersects a longitude line that passes through the extreme west point near El Paso.  For the same reason, exit numbers increase from north to south rather than south to north.
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 09:16:25 PM »

Related to SH 130... why are the exits in the upper 400's?

Because the exit numbers are derived from TxDOT's Uniform Location Reference System, which puts the entire state in the southeast quadrant of an imaginary grid which has its origin point at a place in New Mexico where the latitude line that overlaps the northern boundary of the Texas panhandle intersects a longitude line that passes through the extreme west point near El Paso.  For the same reason, exit numbers increase from north to south rather than south to north.
...what the...

Why not just increase in number from south to north, at the point where SH 130 begins?

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 09:39:24 PM »

Related to SH 130... why are the exits in the upper 400's?

Because the exit numbers are derived from TxDOT's Uniform Location Reference System, which puts the entire state in the southeast quadrant of an imaginary grid which has its origin point at a place in New Mexico where the latitude line that overlaps the northern boundary of the Texas panhandle intersects a longitude line that passes through the extreme west point near El Paso.  For the same reason, exit numbers increase from north to south rather than south to north.
I know that's how Texas mileposts its routes for internal reference, but for any road with numbered exits (typically freeways), TxDOT ought to have a policy of numbering miles in order on the road.

formulanone

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 08:36:07 AM »

Can anyone help me with info concerning the entrances and exits for the new Texas
Toll Hwy SH-130?  I'm trying to get to the brand-new "Circuit of the Americas"
track in a week. Neither the circuit nor the new highway are on any maps yet!

Keep in mind that parking at the circuit (for the F1 race) is over $200. Transit sounds pretty good!

Then again, if you're part of the staff/track-workers, it's probably not that much.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 08:38:35 AM by formulanone »
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agentsteel53

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 09:37:20 AM »

Keep in mind that parking at the circuit (for the F1 race) is over $200. Transit sounds pretty good!

Then again, if you're part of the staff/track-workers, it's probably not that much.

$214.13, as listed.  probably $260 when the hammer finally comes down.  hooray for Ticketrapist!
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J N Winkler

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 10:41:39 AM »

Why not just increase in number from south to north, at the point where SH 130 begins?

I know that's how Texas mileposts its routes for internal reference, but for any road with numbered exits (typically freeways), TxDOT ought to have a policy of numbering miles in order on the road.

The relevant MUTCD provision (§ 2E.31) is actually a little stronger than that--it is a "shall" condition that the southernmost or westernmost point of a freeway route be used as the origin point for reference-post-based exit numbering.  This is, however, hardly the only MUTCD rule TxDOT doesn't follow; it has its own set of anti-MUTCD heirlooms though its notoriety for lack of MUTCD conformity is far less than that of, say, Caltrans.

I have long suspected that the uniform location reference system is used as the basis for exit numbering of other non-Interstate freeways in Texas that have numbered exits (e.g., parts of US 82 and US 59), but I am not sure that is true of all of them.  Because of the way the grid system works, routes will have the correct progression anyway if they run primarily east-west--it is north-south routes that are backwards.
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2012, 10:44:24 AM »

This is, however, hardly the only MUTCD rule TxDOT doesn't follow; it has its own set of anti-MUTCD heirlooms though its notoriety for lack of MUTCD conformity is far less than that of, say, Caltrans.

anything in the signage realm?  it appears to me that Texas lost all innovation around 1969 (when they went away from the cutout shields, including the ones with arrows in them that were unique to that state) and has been bog-standard MUTCD compliant in that way ever since.

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »

I have long suspected that the uniform location reference system is used as the basis for exit numbering of other non-Interstate freeways in Texas that have numbered exits (e.g., parts of US 82 and US 59), but I am not sure that is true of all of them.  Because of the way the grid system works, routes will have the correct progression anyway if they run primarily east-west--it is north-south routes that are backwards.
I don't think US 54 (signed north-south) follows it. It begins with exit 20 at Loop 375, and goes north to 31. Incidentally, Loop 375 also has exit numbers; they seem to increase in a clockwise direction.

US 75 of course does not follow the grid, but its numbers are the only remnant of pre-Interstate exit numbering (which was also used on US 59 north and US 75 south in Houston).
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agentsteel53

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 11:09:41 AM »

I don't think US 54 (signed north-south) follows it. It begins with exit 20 at Loop 375, and goes north to 31. Incidentally, Loop 375 also has exit numbers; they seem to increase in a clockwise direction.

is that in anticipation of a renumbering to I-110?
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 12:07:18 PM »

I don't think US 54 (signed north-south) follows it. It begins with exit 20 at Loop 375, and goes north to 31.

is that in anticipation of a renumbering to I-110?
Doubt it - I-110 is only about a mile long.

Strangely it used to begin at 0, but they added 20 to the numbers between 2006 and 2010:


Both photos from http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-110_tx.html; second one yours.

It has nothing to do with Loop 375's numbers either - you leave Loop 375 at, I believe, exit 58 and immediately see exit 20.
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agentsteel53

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2012, 01:09:23 PM »

I don't think US 54 (signed north-south) follows it. It begins with exit 20 at Loop 375, and goes north to 31.

is that in anticipation of a renumbering to I-110?
Doubt it - I-110 is only about a mile long.

Strangely it used to begin at 0, but they added 20 to the numbers between 2006 and 2010:


Both photos from http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-110_tx.html; second one yours.

It has nothing to do with Loop 375's numbers either - you leave Loop 375 at, I believe, exit 58 and immediately see exit 20.

I had meant in anticipation of the extension of the I-110 designation north of I-10 along what is the Patriot Freeway currently - a freeway which is being built ever-further northward as we speak.

but yes, even in that case, the number "20" is very strange.  is it 20 miles to the western end of Texas, and if so, is US-54 formally east-west in the state logs even though it is signed north-south?  (I believe the other segment of US-54, in the panhandle, is signed east-west.)

I note that I-10/US-54 is exit 22 on I-10, giving credence to my idea that it's 20 miles to the New Mexico line by some abstract measurement.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 01:11:27 PM by agentsteel53 »
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 01:14:51 PM »



while we're on the topic, was that guide sign for Juarez intended to feature an I-110 shield at some point?  it certainly has the space for it.
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J N Winkler

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2012, 01:23:17 PM »

anything in the signage realm?  it appears to me that Texas lost all innovation around 1969 (when they went away from the cutout shields, including the ones with arrows in them that were unique to that state) and has been bog-standard MUTCD compliant in that way ever since.

TxDOT is mostly vanilla MUTCD, but Texas is still an own-manual state and there are lots of Texas-specific things:

*  Use of "HIGHWAY INTERSECTION AHEAD" signing

*  Location references secured to route marker posts on non-Interstates

*  Variable-width guide-sign markers for state route classes (not US or Interstate routes)

*  Wrong-way-round guide-sign shield shapes for Interstates (though this practice is no longer current, many signs reflecting it are still up, and it can still occasionally be seen in new signing plans)

Because of its large size and location on the Mexican border, Texas also has standardized signing for some applications which in other states are addressed by one-of-a-kind custom designs, such as hazardous cargo/hazardous material "MUST FOLLOW" signs, (Border Patrol) inspection station signing, no-firearms-in-Mexico signing, etc.
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2012, 01:33:28 PM »

*  Wrong-way-round guide-sign shield shapes for Interstates (though this practice is no longer current, many signs reflecting it are still up, and it can still occasionally be seen in new signing plans)



is this independent-mount shield an error, or was this actually a standard once in Texas?
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2012, 01:43:02 PM »

but yes, even in that case, the number "20" is very strange.  is it 20 miles to the western end of Texas, and if so, is US-54 formally east-west in the state logs even though it is signed north-south?  (I believe the other segment of US-54, in the panhandle, is signed east-west.)

Here is US 54 in the "state logs":

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/us/us0054.htm

It says nothing about "book direction."  (TxDOT's Sign Crew Field Book recommends that routes be signed by book direction--generally understood to be east-west for even-numbered routes and north-south for odd-numbered routes--but this rule is often ignored.)  The certified mileage is given but this is total mileage for the two segments and does not refer to mileposting.

Quote
I note that I-10/US-54 is exit 22 on I-10, giving credence to my idea that it's 20 miles to the New Mexico line by some abstract measurement.

AIUI, the way the location reference system works in Texas (full details are given in the relevant manual) is that one point along a route or route segment is given a grid coordinate, and other mileposts are derived by counting up and down from the abscissa (in the case of east-west routes) or ordinate (in the case of north-south routes) of that grid coordinate, which functions as an "origin" for the route.  So, in the case of SH 130, Exit 430 is not necessarily exactly 430 miles south of the north-edge-of-panhandle latitude; rather, it is X miles along the SH 130 alignment from the origin point, plus the distance of that origin point from the north-edge-of-panhandle latitude.  This allows reference post numbers to correspond to mileage along the route when it does not run perfectly north-south or east-west.

In the case of US 54, 20 is far too low to correspond to the distance from the north-edge-of-panhandle latitude, and it seems to me just a smidgeon too high to correspond to the distance from the western-tip longitude.  So my theory is that I-10's reference post at the center of the US 54 interchange has been assigned to the El Paso segment of US 54 as its origin point.  Assuming that I-10's origin point is the abscissa of its crossing of the Texas/New Mexico border, the mileage would be approximately correct notwithstanding the fact that I-10 runs almost due south from New Mexico to downtown El Paso.  (It is of course possible that "20" has just been arbitrarily added to the exit numbers; I am not sure how we could know for sure without actually getting in contact with TxDOT's El Paso district and asking them.)
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J N Winkler

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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2012, 01:47:34 PM »

is this independent-mount shield an error, or was this actually a standard once in Texas?

I believe it is an error.  I am not aware that wrong-way-round was ever a standard for independent-mount shields.  (Another peculiarity about guide-sign wrong-way-round was to use a larger shield height for three-digit routes in two-digit shields--e.g. 48" instead of 36" on advance guide and exit direction signs, scaled down correspondingly on interchange sequence signs.  This looks kind of strange if you have a two-digit route ranged next to a three-digit route.)
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2012, 03:10:55 PM »

Assuming that I-10's origin point is the abscissa of its crossing of the Texas/New Mexico border, the mileage would be approximately correct notwithstanding the fact that I-10 runs almost due south from New Mexico to downtown El Paso.  (It is of course possible that "20" has just been arbitrarily added to the exit numbers; I am not sure how we could know for sure without actually getting in contact with TxDOT's El Paso district and asking them.)

In the event that someone on here actually understands the geometry involved enough to hold an intelligent conversation (and I suspect there are a few of you out there), these are the El Paso district's phone numbers:

915 790 4203 (Robert Bieleck, Dist. Engineer)
915 790 4341 (Public Information Office)
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Re: S-H 130
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2012, 06:51:18 PM »

Can anyone help me with info concerning the entrances and exits for the new Texas
Toll Hwy SH-130?  I'm trying to get to the brand-new "Circuit of the Americas"
track in a week. Neither the circuit nor the new highway are on any maps yet!
Thanks,
ROGER

http://austintexas.gov/department/event-routes-road-closures

exit on the north side (main entrance) is Elroy Rd exit 450
south side is FM812 exit 453

https://maps.google.com/?ll=30.143272,-97.641678&spn=0.059082,0.10952&t=h&z=14

unless you hold VIP tickets, attempting to drive to the track itself it not advisable. 
Use one of the shuttles from a designated park and ride lot.
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